00:00:19
Question 1:
For the last seven years,
00:00:22
whatever work
I have attempted to undertake
00:00:29
whether inwardly,
psychologically, or externally
00:00:35
in the fields of business, finance,
education, family and so on,
00:00:42
has ended in failure.
00:00:45
Anything that I have
touched has turned to ashes.
00:00:50
What is the cause
of this state of affairs
00:00:54
and what is the remedy?
00:01:00
For the last seven years, whatever
work I have attempted to undertake
00:01:16
whether inwardly,
psychologically, or externally
00:01:20
in the fields of business, finance,
education, family and so on,
00:01:25
has ended in failure.
00:01:30
Anything that I have touched
has turned to ashes.
00:01:34
What is the cause
of this state of affairs
00:01:37
and what is the remedy?
00:01:43
Are you interested
in this question?
00:01:48
Are you interested
in this question,
00:01:51
or is it somebody else's question
in which you are not interested,
00:01:57
and only interested
in your own question?
00:02:03
The questioner asks why
00:02:08
everything he has touched
outwardly, inwardly,
00:02:14
has turned into ashes,
00:02:20
and what is the cause of it
and what is the remedy?
00:02:27
It is a rather interesting question
if you go into it carefully.
00:02:33
We all want to succeed.
00:02:37
We worship the god of success
or the goddess of success,
00:02:44
politically, religiously
00:02:49
and in the field of business,
science,
00:02:53
you all want to be recognised,
00:02:57
rewarded,
00:03:01
famous.
00:03:05
I do not know if you have watched
among the scientists
00:03:09
the in-fighting that goes on
amongst themselves,
00:03:15
among the professors,
amongst the business people.
00:03:20
My family is better
than your family
00:03:24
– you know, the whole process
of the desire to succeed.
00:03:35
What is success?
00:03:38
Please,
I am asking you the question,
00:03:41
you have to reply to it.
00:03:43
You can't all reply,
00:03:45
then too much noise,
we wouldn't understand each other,
00:03:48
but you must respond to that.
00:03:53
Why is it
that we all seek to be successful?
00:04:00
What does successful mean?
00:04:09
Answer it inwardly for yourself.
00:04:13
To fulfil your desires,
00:04:18
to have more money,
00:04:21
to be famous,
00:04:24
to have the Nobel Prize,
00:04:27
and if you can't
you are jealous, angry, fighting?
00:04:37
So what does success mean?
00:04:42
And you are a disciple
of some guru
00:04:46
– I hope you aren't –
00:04:47
if you are, you want to attain,
whatever that may mean,
00:04:53
you want enlightenment,
whatever that may mean.
00:04:58
It is the same process
in the business world,
00:05:02
in the psychological world,
00:05:04
in the so-called spiritual world,
00:05:07
we all want to be successful,
00:05:14
to achieve something
00:05:20
– why?
00:05:21
Why this tremendous urge
in the affluent society
00:05:29
and in society that is not so?
00:05:35
What is the human urge
that propels us,
00:05:40
drives us to seek success?
00:05:45
Please, answer it.
00:05:55
Is it that through power,
through money,
00:06:03
you have freedom
and you can enjoy that freedom?
00:06:12
Money has become
very important,
00:06:20
and having no money
also becomes important.
00:06:28
Power, political power,
religious power,
00:06:36
the idols that are in the temple
with their priests,
00:06:43
all that is a form of power.
00:06:49
You all want that,
00:06:52
power over somebody or other,
00:06:57
and all this you call success.
00:07:06
You are not so beautiful,
you want to be beautiful,
00:07:10
and so on and on and on.
00:07:14
Does success
depend on comparison?
00:07:25
On competition?
00:07:33
You are answering, please.
00:07:42
In business,
00:07:44
every boy wants to be
successful in examinations,
00:07:49
and so on.
00:07:52
What does all that mean,
00:07:57
this tremendous urge
to be successful,
00:08:04
to achieve, to become?
00:08:10
Please answer that
– to become.
00:08:16
I am not this
but I will become that.
00:08:20
I am poor,
I am going to work like blazes
00:08:26
and get powerful,
money, better position,
00:08:36
which is this everlasting
struggle to become something.
00:08:43
You are an apprentice
to a barrister
00:08:49
and then you want
to be the barrister,
00:08:51
you know the game that we
all play to become something.
00:08:57
What is it that is becoming?
00:09:03
Please answer this question
to yourselves:
00:09:06
what is it that is becoming?
00:09:12
Your desire
to achieve your goal,
00:09:23
to achieve
a better position, a status
00:09:30
– what is it that is becoming,
the thing that is becoming?
00:09:35
You understand my question?
00:09:54
I am nothing
but I will become something.
00:10:02
What is it that says, I am nothing
but I will become something?
00:10:13
You understand my question?
00:10:20
I am angry, violent,
I will become non-violent.
00:10:28
That is your game you play.
00:10:31
But in the meantime you are
sowing the seeds of violence.
00:10:40
Please,
00:10:43
this is important
to find out for oneself,
00:10:47
what is it that is becoming?
00:10:53
Is it desire?
00:11:00
If it is desire,
00:11:05
to have a car,
to have a better house,
00:11:09
to have a better wife,
00:11:16
more beautiful,
more subservient, domestic
00:11:23
– so is desire
the root of becoming?
00:11:30
I am not saying
anything against desire
00:11:34
so don't withhold it.
00:11:37
We are just
questioning each other.
00:11:41
Is it that desire,
00:11:45
seeing a beautiful house,
a lovely garden, if you want,
00:11:50
if you have ever seen
a beautiful house
00:11:53
with a lovely garden,
00:11:59
a lawn that is kept beautifully
without a single weed,
00:12:08
and you see it, and you say,
'My God, I wish I had it!'
00:12:14
That is becoming. Right?
00:12:19
So what is desire?
00:12:25
You answer that question, please.
00:12:33
So I desire to become
successful in various fields
00:12:39
or in the career I have chosen.
00:12:48
I have an object I must have
at the end of so many years,
00:12:53
of whatever target you have,
00:12:59
and you strive after it.
00:13:05
If you have not had children,
you want children.
00:13:08
It is the same thing – desire.
00:13:17
Right?
00:13:20
The desire to achieve nirvana,
00:13:25
desire to achieve illumination,
00:13:30
desire to go to America
00:13:37
or become a great scientist
so that you can win a Nobel Prize,
00:13:44
it is the same movement,
the becoming.
00:13:52
So we must enquire not only into
one of the facets of becoming,
00:13:58
which is desire,
and what is desire?
00:14:06
Now, I have asked that question,
00:14:09
the speaker
has asked that question.
00:14:12
It remains there.
00:14:15
It is in the air.
00:14:19
How do you respond
to that question?
00:14:26
Or do you leave that question
to flower, grow,
00:14:33
see all the implications of it?
00:14:39
You understand?
00:14:45
You have a map in front of you,
00:14:51
a map of this country.
00:14:54
If you have a certain spot
or certain town you want to go to,
00:15:03
you disregard
the rest of the map.
00:15:08
You have a direction to go to
00:15:11
and you pursue that in the map.
00:15:18
You never look at
the whole of the map
00:15:23
because you have
only one pursuit,
00:15:31
because you want
to be successful,
00:15:34
you want to achieve.
00:15:37
If you don't achieve
you are nobody,
00:15:41
you are frightened.
00:15:46
If you call yourself Ph.D.,
00:15:49
your family purrs, delighted.
00:15:58
If you have a Nobel Prize,
all the papers throughout the world
00:16:03
– except perhaps
behind the Iron Curtain –
00:16:07
publish your name,
you become famous, rich.
00:16:15
But it is the same movement
00:16:21
whether your desire is for
illumination, enlightenment,
00:16:27
or for the Nobel Prize,
00:16:30
or to be a rich man
in a potty little town.
00:16:37
Right, sir?
00:16:41
So we are asking,
what is desire?
00:16:50
If one can understand that,
00:16:53
not suppress it,
not control it,
00:16:59
not try to transcend it,
00:17:03
like a monk
who has a desire only for God,
00:17:10
whatever God that may be,
00:17:20
and it is the desire to achieve
that kingdom that drives him.
00:17:29
He still has
the fire of desire
00:17:36
as you have.
00:17:39
So what is desire?
00:17:43
Find out, sir.
I have put the question.
00:17:48
How do you respond
to that question?
00:17:56
Probably you have
never even thought about it,
00:18:00
you probably never even
00:18:03
– I am saying this
most respectfully –
00:18:05
you never even
investigated it.
00:18:08
If you have desire
you want to fulfil it,
00:18:11
with all the problems
involved in it.
00:18:15
If you are
a slightly moral person,
00:18:19
you say, I mustn't have that desire,
you suppress it.
00:18:23
The monks throughout the world
have suppressed desires
00:18:31
but only identified
that desire with a figure,
00:18:38
a symbol, an idea, a principle.
00:18:41
But it is still desire.
00:18:46
So let us ask,
00:18:50
the speaker is asking you:
what is desire?
00:18:56
Don't quote me,
00:19:01
because then you haven't understood
if you quote somebody else.
00:19:06
The speaker has talked
a great deal about desire
00:19:10
and some of you
may have read those books,
00:19:17
and the word is not the fact,
00:19:21
what you read
is not what you are.
00:19:31
So what is more important
is what you are.
00:19:36
So, to come back,
what is desire?
00:19:42
And why is it
00:19:44
it has become so
extraordinarily vital in our life?
00:19:52
Questioner: Is it
I want a meaning to my life?
00:19:55
K: Beg your pardon?
Q: Is it that
00:19:57
I want a meaning to my life
that I have a desire?
00:20:04
Q: She said that,
I want a meaning to my life.
00:20:08
K: So you want
a meaning to life.
00:20:14
Which means you have
no meaning to life.
00:20:17
Right?
00:20:19
You have no meaning,
life has no meaning,
00:20:23
therefore you try to give,
intellectually or another way,
00:20:30
to give a meaning to life.
00:20:35
So, if you give a meaning to life,
it is not life.
00:20:46
If you want to give
a significance to that tree
00:20:51
then you don't know
the beauty of the tree.
00:20:59
If you want to give
significance to your empty life
00:21:06
– you may be married, children,
all the rest of the business,
00:21:13
and you find when you are
about forty, fifty, sixty,
00:21:18
life has no meaning,
00:21:21
then you try to
give meaning to it,
00:21:23
by going to the temple,
literature,
00:21:31
playing the violin, painting,
00:21:35
anything to escape
from what you are.
00:21:41
Right, sirs?
00:21:43
You are talking about your life,
00:21:46
not theories,
00:21:53
not what
other people have said.
00:21:59
So what is desire?
00:22:03
Come on, sir, look at it.
00:22:10
We live by sensation,
00:22:16
and sensations are the
responses of our senses,
00:22:27
and we use only
one or two senses,
00:22:35
eyesight or hearing.
00:22:39
Sensation is our way.
00:22:43
One must have sensations
otherwise you are paralysed,
00:22:47
as most of you are.
00:22:56
Paralysed in a country
00:23:04
that is going down the hill,
00:23:10
paralysed by your gods,
by your philosophy,
00:23:14
by your way of life.
00:23:17
I am not criticising,
these are facts.
00:23:23
So unless you are
totally paralysed
00:23:28
you have
the movement of sensation,
00:23:33
senses are operating.
00:23:37
When you look at that tree
00:23:40
and the beauty of light
among the leaves,
00:23:45
there is a response,
there is a sensation.
00:23:49
Right?
00:23:52
When you see a beautiful woman
you have sensations.
00:24:00
When you see a very,
very clever man,
00:24:03
as most of you are
00:24:05
– you are a very clever people,
00:24:10
too clever by half,
00:24:16
you have explanation
for everything,
00:24:23
you are good at analysis,
explanations.
00:24:28
Those analyses, explanations,
00:24:31
quotations have nothing to do
with your daily life,
00:24:39
so there is a wide gap
between your theories,
00:24:45
religious concepts,
philosophical knowledge,
00:24:51
has nothing whatever to do
with your daily living,
00:24:56
and that is why you are all
living a life that has no meaning.
00:25:05
So let's proceed.
What is desire?
00:25:17
How does desire arise?
00:25:27
What is the relationship
between desire and thought?
00:25:35
Go slowly.
I am asking all these questions.
00:25:41
Who is the controller
who controls desire?
00:25:50
And why all religions
00:26:00
say you mustn't have desire
00:26:03
– more or less,
in different terminologies.
00:26:09
So unless we understand
very deeply the activity of desire,
00:26:17
not the objects of desire,
00:26:24
not the objects of desire
but desire itself.
00:26:30
A child may want
to be an engine driver
00:26:36
or he may want to be
a first-class pianist,
00:26:42
but it is still desire,
and so on.
00:26:45
We are not concerned
with the objects of desire
00:26:48
but desire itself.
00:26:52
Right?
00:27:03
Q: Desire and survival
are inseparable.
00:27:08
K: Desire and survival
are inseparable.
00:27:14
What is it to survive?
What does it mean to survive?
00:27:22
Survive physically?
00:27:26
If you want to survive physically
and be secure physically
00:27:36
you must have no nationalities,
00:27:41
because tribalism,
which is glorified nationalism,
00:27:46
is destroying the world.
00:27:49
Right?
00:27:52
Ideals, ideologies of Russia
00:27:56
and the ideologies
of the democratic world
00:27:59
are destroying humanity.
00:28:03
So there is no security.
You are not surviving.
00:28:08
The danger is there
but you are blind to it
00:28:15
because you say
nationalism is security.
00:28:21
So security, survival,
has a meaning only
00:28:27
when you don't belong
to any country,
00:28:33
to any group, to any religion.
00:28:38
Then you are a strong person
00:28:42
both biologically
as well as psychologically.
00:28:47
You are a free human being
00:28:51
and you might help to prevent
the stupidities of politicians
00:28:58
and the voters.
00:29:01
So let's proceed.
What is desire?
00:29:06
What is the origin,
the beginning of desire?
00:29:19
I see you.
00:29:27
There is the seeing
00:29:29
of the colour
of that sari or that shirt,
00:29:35
the seeing with the eye,
visual perception,
00:29:41
and there is a sensation,
00:29:45
which is: I don't like that colour
but I like that colour.
00:29:52
You are following this?
00:29:54
Seeing,
from which arises a sensation,
00:30:00
then I contact the sari
or the shirt,
00:30:07
contact in the sense touch it,
00:30:14
sensation, contact,
00:30:22
and from that contact
greater sensation.
00:30:29
Which is, I see a beautiful shirt
in the window
00:30:35
or a sari
or whatever you want,
00:30:39
seeing then going inside
and touching the material
00:30:49
and from that touching
greater sensation.
00:30:54
Right?
You are following this?
00:31:01
Don't you do this
ordinarily in your daily life?
00:31:05
Q: Yes.
00:31:06
K: That is what you are doing
00:31:09
– seeing, contact
and greater sensation.
00:31:15
Now, what happens after that?
00:31:18
No, I am asking you the question
– think it out.
00:31:28
Sir, think it out,
go into it carefully.
00:31:37
I see that beautiful house.
00:31:42
The seeing creates a sensation.
00:31:46
If I am a friend of that house
00:31:49
I go inside, look at the walls,
look at the shape of the windows.
00:31:54
All that is a sensation.
00:31:58
Then what takes place?
00:32:12
Q: I want to have it.
K: Yes, that is sensation.
00:32:19
K: I am asking
00:32:21
– please do pay a little attention
if you are interested in it.
00:32:27
We must have sensations,
00:32:31
otherwise you are biologically,
physically paralysed.
00:32:37
If your arm doesn't feel
00:32:43
then that arm is paralysed.
00:32:45
So there must be sensation.
00:32:50
That is a natural,
healthy state.
00:32:57
If I ask you a question and if
you are actively mentally aware
00:33:06
you respond to it.
00:33:09
But if you are tired,
sleepy, lazy,
00:33:13
or burdened with philosophy,
00:33:17
burdened with
other people's sayings,
00:33:19
then you can't respond.
00:33:21
You will say
what other people have said.
00:33:27
So there is the seeing,
contact, sensation.
00:33:36
This is natural, healthy.
00:33:40
Then what takes place?
00:33:43
It is all so rapid,
so instantaneous,
00:33:49
so we are slowing it down.
00:33:54
Then what takes place?
00:34:01
Q: The sensation
is registered in the brain.
00:34:06
K: Yes sir, Of course.
Then what?
00:34:12
Don't go into
great explanations.
00:34:17
We have made
a very simple statement.
00:34:19
Q: But after,
that brain is refreshed.
00:34:21
K: No sir, just look at it
before you answer it.
00:34:27
I must go on otherwise
you will throw lots of words at me.
00:34:42
I see that house,
00:34:48
the seeing,
touching the marble,
00:34:53
looking at the pillars,
00:34:57
looking at the good windows,
00:35:01
and that is sensation.
00:35:04
Then what takes place?
00:35:07
Then thought comes in and says,
00:35:10
'How nice it would be
if I had that house.'
00:35:15
See what takes place.
00:35:17
Then thought uses the sensation.
00:35:23
And thought is also
another sensation.
00:35:31
Thought creates the image,
00:35:33
my image
that I must have that house.
00:35:40
That is, sensation,
then thought instantly
00:35:46
creates the image of me
living in that house.
00:35:51
Have you understood it?
00:36:02
Have you understood something?
00:36:09
That is, thought takes charge
of the sensation
00:36:17
and out of that sensation
create the image,
00:36:23
and the image is
owning that house
00:36:29
or that car
or that something or other.
00:36:33
You have followed this?
00:36:37
So, watch it carefully.
00:36:40
Sensation is healthy, normal,
00:36:46
then thought
comes along and says,
00:36:52
out of that sensation
creates the image.
00:36:56
And when thought
shapes the sensation,
00:37:01
at that second desire is born.
00:37:14
Don't agree,
00:37:18
don't say,
yes, that is a good explanation.
00:37:30
Now, if you don't
shake your head in agreement
00:37:39
then why are you
a slave to desires?
00:37:44
Right?
00:37:47
You are too quick to agree
with anything that is said.
00:37:55
But I am pointing out
most respectfully
00:38:02
that we are always trained
to control, suppress, transcend,
00:38:09
escape in various forms
from desire.
00:38:16
Have you noticed
the sannyasis in this country
00:38:23
and the monks in Europe,
especially in Italy?
00:38:29
They are walking down the street
and they have the Bible
00:38:33
and never look around
because of temptation.
00:38:39
So, book.
00:38:43
And the sannyasis in this country,
00:38:46
I have followed many of them,
behind them,
00:38:51
they are chanting
something or other,
00:38:54
never look at
the beauty of the earth,
00:38:59
the flowers, the streams,
the sky, the passing woman
00:39:06
– but, 'don't be tempted.'
Right?
00:39:14
So, I am asking you a question:
00:39:17
sensation is right,
natural, healthy.
00:39:23
Can thought not interfere?
00:39:29
When thought
takes charge of sensation,
00:39:33
at that second desire is born.
00:39:37
You understand this?
00:39:46
Sensation is natural, and a gap
when thought doesn't interfere.
00:39:55
You understand
what I am saying?
00:40:03
So can thought
abstain for a few seconds?
00:40:16
That means
tremendous awareness,
00:40:21
great attention.
00:40:28
Don't say: what is attention,
what is awareness,
00:40:31
go off into some explanation.
00:40:35
To see sensation is natural,
00:40:41
and discover for yourself
00:40:44
that the moment thought
takes charge of the sensation,
00:40:49
at that second desire is born
00:40:52
– I want that house or that woman
or that something or other.
00:40:59
Right?
00:41:01
To be aware,
00:41:05
to pay attention so that thought
doesn't take charge of sensation.
00:41:14
That is timeless.
I won't go into all that.
00:41:23
You have never
thought about all this.
00:41:26
you are all grown-up people.
00:41:29
You have ashes on your head,
go to temples,
00:41:33
and all kinds of childish stuff,
00:41:37
and you haven't even
gone into yourself,
00:41:41
you have never even thought
to ask these questions.
00:41:52
So, discipline
is not the end of desire.
00:42:03
Discipline itself becomes desire.
00:42:07
Right?
00:42:11
But if you learn
what is desire, learn,
00:42:16
not from the speaker,
from yourself,
00:42:22
understand,
investigate, go into it,
00:42:25
then it is yours,
you are learning.
00:42:32
There was
a great Spanish painter.
00:42:36
He was 95
or more or less – Goya –
00:42:43
he said, 'I am still learning.'
You understand?
00:42:47
So learning is everlasting
00:42:53
but knowledge is not,
00:42:55
knowledge is limited, finite.
00:42:58
But you are learning.
00:43:03
So if one learns,
00:43:07
not learn about desire
00:43:12
but if you are learning
the meaning of desire,
00:43:16
what is involved in it,
how it arises, keep on learning,
00:43:22
then that very learning
brings its own discipline.
00:43:29
If you want to be a good chemist,
good biologist,
00:43:34
that very subject
becomes the means of training,
00:43:42
of discipline.
00:43:45
You don't know
any of these things.
00:43:47
Where do you all live?
00:43:51
Not in Triplicane,
Madras or around here
00:43:55
– where do you live?
00:43:59
If life has no meaning
00:44:04
and all the temples
are full of things
00:44:08
made by hand
and by the mind,
00:44:12
which you are worshipping,
00:44:16
all this has no meaning
at all anymore.
00:44:21
So please ask this question
of yourself:
00:44:31
why life, which is
an extraordinary thing,
00:44:39
great complexity,
great depth and great beauty,
00:44:45
why that life
has become so shoddy.
