00:00:00
From business people to judges and
00:00:05
senior surgeons, in Eastern Germany,
00:00:07
most of the top positions in society are
00:00:10
held by West Germans. Even now, 36 years
00:00:14
after the fall of the Berlin Wall,
00:00:16
there was a form of colonization that
00:00:18
took place in Eastern Germany with the
00:00:23
after effects only now becoming visible.
00:00:25
>> The dominance of Western Germans is a
00:00:28
source of political resentment.
00:00:30
There'd be outrage in Bavaria, too, if
00:00:32
they had people from Saxony in charge of
00:00:35
everything.
00:00:35
>> You could call it robbery or at least
00:00:39
occupation. And for people to push back
00:00:42
is only natural.
00:00:44
>> That frustration is becoming
00:00:47
increasingly vocal, understandably so.
00:00:50
What can the East do about it? Why
00:00:52
aren't there more East Germans filling
00:00:55
top positions?
00:01:06
Chemnets August 2024.
00:01:11
The big event is still 2 hours away, but
00:01:13
people are already queuing around the
00:01:17
block to hear someone they relate to.
00:01:20
Literature professor Dirk Ashman is like
00:01:22
them from Eastern Germany and author of
00:01:24
a book that topped the German bestseller
00:01:27
list for non-fiction. A central theme of
00:01:29
his work is highlighting how Western
00:01:31
German elites dominate the East even
00:01:34
now.
00:01:37
Of course, Oshman's right. Just go
00:01:39
listen to an interview. There's a judge,
00:01:41
a chief of police, and there are other
00:01:44
people in prominent Saxon positions, and
00:01:48
they don't speak my dialect.
00:01:51
that there was this western occupation
00:01:56
everywhere after reunification.
00:02:00
Hearing that was a real wakeup call.
00:02:02
People here in the east have skills too
00:02:06
which are not often acknowledged.
00:02:08
Germany was formally reunified three and
00:02:11
a half decades ago. But on evenings like
00:02:13
this, with the audience for a public
00:02:14
debate event spilling over into
00:02:16
backyards, it's clear that a lot of
00:02:19
people still feel unfairly treated,
00:02:22
including Durk Ashman.
00:02:24
>> When I started writing about it, it was
00:02:26
like an eruption. For a whole week, I
00:02:29
sat at my desk wondering, "What am I
00:02:31
doing here?" I was really beside myself
00:02:33
and shaking all over.
00:02:37
doesn't cover it up.
00:02:38
>> Durk Ashman's book about the East West
00:02:42
situation was the top selling work of
00:02:47
non-fiction in the country in 2023.
00:02:52
>> The problem is obvious. The East feels
00:02:56
and sees that it isn't an important
00:02:59
player in this democracy. The east isn't
00:03:02
adequately represented in society
00:03:05
whether in the media, industry or the
00:03:07
political world and the resulting
00:03:09
imbalance also leads to societal
00:03:12
conflict.
00:03:16
It even leads sociologists to ask
00:03:20
whether Eastern Germans feel like
00:03:22
secondass citizens. They feel that way
00:03:25
because they're treated that way. That's
00:03:28
the point. It's not some random or false
00:03:29
feeling.
00:03:32
>> It's because of how they're treated.
00:03:34
>> So, is it true? It's an opinion that
00:03:36
contrasts with the cliched image of
00:03:39
self-pity that many Western Germans or
00:03:42
Vesses still have about the Aussies,
00:03:46
East Germans, decades after unification.
00:03:49
>> Typical Easter primarily all the
00:03:51
complaining.
00:03:53
>> I guess the imagined reunification would
00:03:56
pan out differently. They do have a
00:03:58
different mentality. Of course, they
00:04:00
have a different history to us.
00:04:02
>> Too much whining.
00:04:04
>> There are, of course, people who grew up
00:04:06
in communist East Germany and have made
00:04:09
it to the top. Holoclair has an
00:04:12
estimated fortune of €700 million earned
00:04:14
from his industrial adhesive film
00:04:17
company. But you need to scroll way down
00:04:19
on Germany's rich list to find Loclair,
00:04:21
the wealthiest East German, ranked
00:04:24
314th.
00:04:27
And in fact, he's the sole Aussie in the
00:04:30
top 500.
00:04:32
And it's a similar picture in other
00:04:37
areas of society. There's no shortage of
00:04:40
Eastern Germans in the 180,000 strong
00:04:42
armed forces, but not a single one has
00:04:46
been promoted to general.
00:04:47
Then there's the judicial system. cases
00:04:51
that proceed through all levels of
00:04:54
appeal end with the federal judges, 300
00:04:57
plus in total.
00:04:59
Over 90% of them were born in former
00:05:02
West Germany. So when it comes to the
00:05:03
most important rulings in the justice
00:05:06
system, it's almost always West Germans
00:05:10
with the last word.
00:05:10
And in the East itself, surely there it
00:05:16
would be a different story. While almost
00:05:18
one in four judges at the highest
00:05:19
regional courts in the east are now from
00:05:22
the region, for lead judges that
00:05:26
proportion drops to 1 in 20.
00:05:28
So here too, it's primarily West Germans
00:05:33
in charge of definitive verdicts.
00:05:34
So who are these West Germans?
00:05:39
Ludvig Kerna was among the first to
00:05:43
venture east. When he came to East
00:05:46
Berlin in 1989, he found himself a world
00:05:49
away from his native West Germany.
00:05:53
>> Basically, total freedom.
00:05:54
In the West, you had all these
00:05:57
expectations and entrenched structures.
00:05:59
And it was all really foreign and
00:06:01
different over here. And there was a
00:06:05
hunger for a new beginning.
00:06:12
Kerna headed east right after the fall
00:06:16
of the Berlin Wall. As with many young
00:06:18
people, it was an irresistibly exciting
00:06:23
time of revolutionary change.
00:06:30
>> How often do you witness a society being
00:06:34
completely transformed like that? So
00:06:36
much personal and creative freedom. and
00:06:40
Berlin in the 1990s was just amazing.
00:06:42
>> Ludvik Kerna made the move east a
00:06:44
permanent one. In 1992, he started
00:06:48
working for the toy hunt anal set up to
00:06:50
sell or wind down state-run companies in
00:06:54
the former communist East Germany.
00:06:56
>> I studied economics. So with the state
00:06:58
economy being restructured, of course, I
00:07:01
wanted to have a look on the ground. The
00:07:03
toyand was the central reallocation
00:07:07
place for everything.
00:07:10
But that spirit of freedom and change in
00:07:15
the east would not last long. Ludvik
00:07:17
Kerna saw for himself how people in
00:07:19
Eastern Germany had little or no say in
00:07:22
decisions. Working at the bottom of the
00:07:24
ay's hierarchy, many of his colleagues
00:07:27
were from the east. In contrast to the
00:07:29
management, where the suits manning the
00:07:31
senior offices were almost entirely from
00:07:34
West Germany.
00:07:36
You had this big group of managers from
00:07:38
the west who preferred doing business
00:07:41
with others like them. They took over
00:07:43
all the state-owned companies which
00:07:46
technically belonged to the people here.
00:07:48
You could call it robbery or at least
00:07:51
occupation. And for people to push back
00:07:55
is only natural and legitimate.
00:07:57
The board of directors at the Troy Hunt
00:07:59
consisted almost exclusively of managers
00:08:02
from Western Germany, leaving many
00:08:04
people in the East with a feeling of
00:08:07
powerlessness.
00:08:11
>> What is this crap? Be honest with us.
00:08:14
>> The toy hunt. Words fail me.
00:08:16
>> It's a complete disgrace.
00:08:18
>> They should have looked more closely at
00:08:21
who they were selling things to. Um,
00:08:23
what had once officially belonged to the
00:08:25
people was then privatized or shut down
00:08:28
by West Germans.
00:08:30
>> It is fair to call it a kind of Eastern
00:08:33
colonization, and the after effects are
00:08:37
only now becoming visible.
00:08:39
It wasn't a case of West Germans being
00:08:40
colonizers.
00:08:43
They were just doing their jobs. They
00:08:45
didn't see themselves as West Germans or
00:08:48
even conquerors, but just as individuals
00:08:52
pursuing the career of their choice.
00:08:55
One of those individuals was Iris Girka
00:09:02
Belau. In 1991, she moved east where she
00:09:03
rose through the ranks to become
00:09:05
presiding judge at a regional court of
00:09:10
appeals in Saxony Onalt.
00:09:12
I said, "I'm never going there."
00:09:19
>> And then a colleague who had already
00:09:23
been here asked whether I might like to
00:09:26
reconsider.
00:09:36
and she ended up staying.
00:09:42
>> Edidiskabata was one of many young West
00:09:47
German lawyers to arrive in the east
00:09:49
where initially they were urgently
00:09:52
needed.
00:09:56
was a huge help in building up the
00:10:01
court's clerical and secretarial staff
00:10:03
as well as with everything else. We
00:10:05
would never have managed that without
00:10:06
our colleagues from the former West
00:10:09
Germany.
00:10:10
>> There were proportionately far fewer
00:10:15
judges in the east compared to the West.
00:10:18
And following unification, many of those
00:10:20
in the east were forced out of their
00:10:22
positions after being accused of having
00:10:25
issued politically motivated rulings as
00:10:29
part of the one party communist system.
00:10:30
Civil servants from the west were given
00:10:33
the job of analyzing thousands of pages
00:10:35
of court records from the old communist
00:10:38
system.
00:10:40
For many people in the east too, their
00:10:44
own judges couldn't be trusted.
00:10:45
There were a lot of judges in the former
00:10:49
East Germany who handed down shameful
00:10:52
verdicts. Do you have confidence in all
00:10:54
the judges still working in this
00:10:57
courthouse?
00:11:06
Let's put it this way. I'm happy to be
00:11:10
able to convene with judges from the
00:11:13
west.
00:11:18
>> There's a great deal of concern about
00:11:21
the individuals who embodied and
00:11:24
underpinned that system. Now again
00:11:28
representing society in the courtroom
00:11:31
and those feelings of mistrust were
00:11:36
widespread in the east including at the
00:11:39
highest courts.
00:11:43
Would we have wanted a judge who'd been
00:11:46
educated in East Germany and
00:11:48
administered justice there to be
00:11:50
appointed to a federal or regional
00:11:52
constitutional court? I suspect most
00:11:55
people would rightly say no.
00:11:57
>> For West Germany, the collapse of the
00:12:00
East came at a convenient time. The
00:12:02
expansion of its higher education sector
00:12:05
in the 1980s had left it with a surplus
00:12:07
of college graduates. And in the '90s,
00:12:09
many of them ended up in local
00:12:11
authorities, courts, and other official
00:12:14
agencies in the East.
00:12:16
The West German universities were
00:12:19
overcrowded in the 80s due to a lot more
00:12:22
people being able to study and with so
00:12:25
many graduates then looking for jobs, a
00:12:28
whole mass of them came east. So that
00:12:30
was also a way of resolving the impact
00:12:32
of higher education expansion in the
00:12:35
west.
00:12:35
The old East German elites were driven
00:12:40
out in many cases to be replaced by West
00:12:43
Germans.
00:12:46
By the end of 1990, all 62 of the top
00:12:48
ranking civil servants in government
00:12:50
ministries in the East were from the
00:12:53
West, and there was a similar influx at
00:12:55
all levels of government.
00:12:59
By 1994, around 35,000 civil servants
00:13:01
from the West had taken up
00:13:05
administrative positions in the East.
00:13:06
And it was a similar scenario at the
00:13:11
agency now in charge of overhauling the
00:13:13
East German business sector. The
00:13:16
establishment of the Troy Hunt, seen by
00:13:18
many as the gravedigger of industry in
00:13:20
the east, also saw over a thousand
00:13:23
administrative staff move from west to
00:13:26
east.
00:13:28
But who were these people exactly?
00:13:35
Some in the east suspect now as then
00:13:36
that they were second string
00:13:38
appointments. People who had failed to
00:13:43
make the grade over in the west.
00:13:46
>> I hope it's not arrogant of me to say
00:13:50
this. I would have had a similar career
00:13:53
path if I'd stayed in the west. Saying
00:13:55
that those people only did it because it
00:13:57
was their only career opportunity is a
00:14:01
bit presumptuous and unfair.
00:14:02
It would be wrong to assume that people
00:14:06
only went to the east because they had
00:14:09
no prospects in the west. Some, yes, but
00:14:12
not everyone.
00:14:15
And many of them stayed for years, if
00:14:20
not decades,
00:14:23
not just at the courts, but everywhere,
00:14:26
at universities, government agencies,
00:14:28
and the military.
00:14:31
It was a comprehensive changing of the
00:14:34
guard.
00:14:39
A revolution takes place when a massive
00:14:44
replacement of elites occurs with the
00:14:46
stated aim of transforming society. That
00:14:48
means not just at the political level
00:14:51
and other key areas of governance but
00:14:53
also throughout society. And we needed
00:14:56
that change.
00:14:59
Pooked
00:15:02
Ludvig Karna would become a beneficiary
00:15:07
of that large-scale replacement.
00:15:09
After 18 months of working at the toy
00:15:12
hunt agency, he then himself took over a
00:15:16
company in Eastern Germany.
00:15:17
My family owned a railway construction
00:15:23
firm founded in 1890. It used to be run
00:15:26
by my father. Unification gave us the
00:15:28
chance to expand.
00:15:30
>> The Kerna family owned a range of
00:15:32
companies connected to railway
00:15:34
construction.
00:15:37
In 1993, they added an East German firm
00:15:39
to their group thanks to a chance
00:15:42
meeting of two West Germans.
00:15:44
>> My father bumped into Claus from Donani
00:15:46
at a business lounge at the Dusseldorf
00:15:49
airport.
00:15:50
Klaus
00:15:54
Fondonani, former mayor of Hamorg in
00:15:59
West Germany, was at the time working at
00:16:03
the toy hunt agency.
00:16:05
Among the tasks assigned to him was
00:16:08
privatizing East German railway crane
00:16:12
manufacturer KOF.
00:16:14
The toughest part is giving advice while
00:16:18
stressing that you're aware of the
00:16:20
differences.
00:16:22
You can't come across as a know-it-all,
00:16:27
even if you do know some things better.
00:16:28
>> Fondonani reckoned that Kof would be a
00:16:32
good fit for the Kerna family's
00:16:35
industrial group, except the factory in
00:16:37
Leipsek needed a major technical
00:16:40
overhaul.
00:16:41
It had its own coal fired power station
00:16:46
with horrendous energy costs and
00:16:48
overheated production halls that looked
00:16:50
like the war had just ended. So we
00:16:54
thought, hm, could be tricky.
00:16:56
>> But the kerners weren't the only ones
00:17:00
interested in taking over the company.
00:17:02
The East German plant manager wanted to
00:17:07
buy it via trading company, but he was
00:17:09
unable to put up the capital or find the
00:17:12
investors. All he had was, "I'm the boss
00:17:15
and I know the Russians." Sure, it might
00:17:17
have continued on for 2 or 3 years, but
00:17:20
probably not much longer.
00:17:22
>> Ultimately, Klaus Fondani and the Toyant
00:17:25
agency decided in favor of the Kerna
00:17:28
family. of the midsize to major firms in
00:17:31
the east in the early 90s, some 85% were
00:17:34
sold to West Germans, 10% to foreign
00:17:38
investors, and only 5% to East Germans.
00:17:40
>> The manager was
00:17:42
>> for historical reasons, managers from
00:17:44
the east had access to less capital than
00:17:47
familyrun firms from the west. So now
00:17:49
treating them equally was essentially
00:17:51
unequal treatment. The people who had
00:17:53
the knowledge and the capability should
00:17:56
have gotten help. It was supposed to be
00:17:59
teamwork, but the pro west bias meant
00:18:03
that the east didn't have a chance.
00:18:06
A chance meeting at an airport lounge
00:18:10
where your average East German wouldn't
00:18:13
or couldn't set foot in. That sums up
00:18:15
why we still have this massive disparity
00:18:18
in business circles
00:18:20
and especially given how they're closely
00:18:24
intertwined with access to wealth and
00:18:26
assets. I don't see this changing
00:18:28
significantly for at least the next 10
00:18:31
years.
00:18:31
a situation reflected on Germany's main
00:18:36
stock index where not a single company
00:18:39
from eastern Germany is listed and
00:18:41
almost all of the executives of those
00:18:43
western companies on the index were also
00:18:46
born in the west similarly of the 100
00:18:48
biggest companies based in the east a
00:18:50
gas supplier laser techch firm and
00:18:52
sparkling wine producer to name a
00:18:55
fewthirds of senior management are from
00:18:58
the west and that imbalance also extends
00:19:01
to the healthcare sector professor Modic
00:19:03
Fona spent his entire career in his
00:19:05
native western Germany before being
00:19:07
appointed head physician at a university
00:19:10
clinic in the eastern city of Noin 6
00:19:13
years ago.
00:19:19
I would say I'm a good example for
00:19:22
various different people I work with
00:19:25
because of my background. I was
00:19:27
originally a nurse and everyone knows I
00:19:30
did all kinds of hospital jobs during my
00:19:34
civil service time.
00:19:35
So when I say this needs to be done,
00:19:40
then people take me seriously and listen
00:19:43
to what I say.
00:19:46
>> Marik Fona also remembers the surprising
00:19:51
advice he was given when he moved east
00:19:54
in 2018.
00:19:56
When I was made director, I was prepped
00:20:00
by someone on the works council. He
00:20:02
suggested that I should avoid saying I
00:20:05
was from the west. It was better to say
00:20:07
from the north, which initially I found
00:20:11
a bit bizarre.
00:20:20
This sort of local patriotism is a bit
00:20:24
different here. There's a degree of
00:20:30
suspicion and another one of those guys.
00:20:31
Took a while for me to understand the
00:20:35
situation and to realize I had to
00:20:37
persuade people I'm not just one of
00:20:40
those guys.
00:20:42
And same story as before, he only ended
00:20:46
up in Nupin after talking to a fellow
00:20:48
West German who was already working
00:20:51
there.
00:21:01
>> It was about networking but separate
00:21:06
networks of strictly easterners or
00:21:08
westerners. From my experience, that
00:21:12
wasn't the case.
00:21:13
>> One key aspect is elites often being
00:21:18
recruited by a networking. In many
00:21:21
cases, it's a completely unconscious
00:21:24
act, something they're not acutely aware
00:21:28
of. And when pushed, one might deny it
00:21:30
because they don't consciously feel it's
00:21:33
happening.
00:21:36
It would be hugely simplistic to talk
00:21:40
about some elite group from the west who
00:21:42
had collectively decided at a
00:21:44
conference, let's kick out all the East
00:21:47
Germans. Obviously, that's stupid. A lot
00:21:49
of it is only semicconscious. It's not
00:21:51
pre-planned, i.e. not wanting to have
00:21:53
any East Germans.
00:21:55
But when you're around someone who has a
00:21:56
certain dialect and has certain
00:21:59
mannerisms, then you notice how you feel
00:22:02
yourself keeping your distance.
00:22:04
So even if not consciously, West German
00:22:07
managers continued to pass on the reigns
00:22:11
at companies in the east.
00:22:11
In most cases, one boss from the west
00:22:18
was then also succeeded by another.
00:22:20
More than a full generation after the
00:22:23
fall of the Berlin Wall, Germany is
00:22:27
still not properly unified.
00:22:29
Assuming that everyone has an equal
00:22:32
chance of getting a particular job, then
00:22:34
you'd assume it would balance out over
00:22:36
time. But that not being the case
00:22:38
indicates the system itself is the
00:22:41
issue.
00:22:44
In the early 1990s, West Germans were
00:22:46
needed in the East,
00:22:48
except they brought with them not just
00:22:50
their insights, but also their own
00:22:53
networks, which has made it difficult
00:22:55
for East Germans to gain access to those
00:22:58
top jobs.
00:23:00
As for the lack of progress, one survey
00:23:04
showed that there's actually been a
00:23:06
decrease in the number of East Germans
00:23:09
in elite positions, which means a
00:23:11
long-term problem for the East, an
00:23:14
inequality of opportunity, and that's a
00:23:19
serious issue for a democratic society.
00:23:22
A frustration has emerged from this
00:23:26
inequality of opportunity and is being
00:23:29
reflected in a surge in popularity for
00:23:31
populist parties. The far-right
00:23:33
alternative for Germany and the far-left
00:23:36
Zara Vaken connect alliance. Just months
00:23:38
after its creation, her party won seats
00:23:41
in three regional parliaments. in one
00:23:44
case with almost 16% of the vote. At a
00:23:48
campaign event in September 2024, Zara
00:23:50
Vagen Connect herself took to the stage
00:23:52
to address the frustrations of her
00:23:55
fellow East Germans.
00:23:57
You're again being told how to talk, how
00:24:02
to think, and what to eat. East Germans
00:24:04
have a keener eye than people in the
00:24:07
West and say no.
00:24:09
And you don't swallow everything you're
00:24:11
being told.
00:24:15
You inform yourselves.
00:24:16
>> It's great to see people asking
00:24:18
questions and not simply believing
00:24:21
everything they hear.
00:24:25
That's what democracy is all about.
00:24:28
Many people in Eastern Germany see
00:24:32
political and business leaders as out of
00:24:35
touch with their everyday lives and feel
00:24:39
resentment towards those in charge.
00:24:46
The general claim is that systematic
00:24:51
under representation can potentially
00:24:53
lead to people being more open to
00:24:56
populism.
00:24:59
That's a major point for right-wing
00:25:03
populism and to a certain extent also
00:25:06
left-wing populism
00:25:08
that there are corrupt elites up there
00:25:12
who don't listen to us
00:25:14
that we can't identify with them. Those
00:25:16
elites have a different background are
00:25:18
from a different region or even have a
00:25:22
different ethnicity for example.
00:25:25
So right-wing populists can seize on
00:25:30
that and incorporate it into their own
00:25:33
political propaganda.
00:25:35
Traditionally in Eastern Germany, people
00:25:41
saw society as those on top and us that
00:25:44
was present in the communist era too.
00:25:46
People saw themselves as distinct from
00:25:49
the people who made the decisions.
00:25:51
Zara Vagen Connect was born and raised
00:25:55
in the GDR, the former East Germany. She
00:25:57
sees her criticism of Western German
00:25:59
elites not as populism, but as a message
00:26:03
telling of a serious grievance.
00:26:05
>> There'd be outrage in Bavaria, too, if
00:26:08
they had people from Saxony in charge of
00:26:10
everything or from Hamburg. And this is
00:26:13
what's happening all across the East
00:26:15
where a lot of people are wondering
00:26:17
whether they're secondass citizens.
00:26:19
That's why they're closer.
00:26:22
>> Which is why Zabagen Connect's party is
00:26:24
calling for quotas in Eastern Germany
00:26:26
for administrative positions, for
00:26:29
example.
00:26:29
I'm not a fan of quotas. But sometimes
00:26:33
you do need them where there is no other
00:26:37
way of changing things.
00:26:40
I don't think this Aussie quota would
00:26:46
work. Firstly, on legal grounds,
00:26:47
there's a huge group of people where
00:26:49
their personal background and that of
00:26:52
their parents mean they can no longer be
00:26:57
classified as East or West German.
00:26:58
And I'm certain that this would not
00:27:02
stand up in the courts all the way up to
00:27:06
the federal level.
00:27:07
Lawyers have the job of resolving
00:27:11
complicated issues like this one. It's a
00:27:13
matter of political will. I'm not really
00:27:16
keen on them, but I believe that quota
00:27:19
systems are inevitable here because they
00:27:20
can at least help to address the problem
00:27:23
of representation, participation, and
00:27:27
self- betterment in this democracy.
00:27:28
>> Former Chancellor Angela Merkel is often
00:27:33
held up as an example of former East
00:27:36
Germans making it to the top. Is it
00:27:38
possible it's just a question of effort?
00:27:41
a claim that has persisted in the West
00:27:44
ever since unification.
00:27:45
>> They need to properly work to get to
00:27:49
where we are today, which maybe some of
00:27:51
them haven't realized yet.
00:27:56
>> East Germans rely more on the state.
00:27:56
>> Saying to Aussies, make an effort and
00:28:01
basically it's no wonder you're not in
00:28:04
the top jobs is really arrogant and just
00:28:06
awful.
00:28:08
We have a deeply rooted inheritance of
00:28:11
social class. People who are born poor
00:28:13
tend to stay poor and people from
00:28:15
privileged families will probably remain
00:28:18
privileged
00:28:20
regardless if you've worked hard or not.
00:28:24
It doesn't have to be this way.
00:28:27
Obviously, economic factors play a part.
00:28:29
If my parents are wealthy, I can afford
00:28:31
to take a risk and try and get that
00:28:33
doctorate. or if I lose money, I know
00:28:35
there'll always be a safety net I can
00:28:37
rely on, which you don't have in the
00:28:40
East.
00:28:42
>> As elsewhere, making it to the top tends
00:28:44
to involve a combination of security and
00:28:47
self-determination, a combination that
00:28:49
applies to fewer East Germans than their
00:28:52
Western counterparts.
00:28:55
Mana Clea is an exception, however. She
00:28:57
has a senior position at the foreign
00:29:00
ministry.
00:29:02
I find it shocking to see this
00:29:06
disillusionment with democracy in
00:29:09
Eastern Germany and I ask myself what's
00:29:13
happened here. It really troubles me and
00:29:15
I end up wondering whether we need a
00:29:17
stronger representation of East Germans
00:29:21
in certain positions.
00:29:22
>> Mana is about to head a crisis team
00:29:27
meeting at the foreign ministry.
00:29:29
She was born in the northeastern town of
00:29:33
Pazabalk in 1978 in former East Germany.
00:29:36
>> Hello.
00:29:37
>> This meeting is about the hot spots we
00:29:42
talked about recently.
00:29:42
Now a diplomat, she knows from personal
00:29:47
experience how the reunification has
00:29:50
been for East Germans.
00:29:52
As a teenager, she saw how her parents'
00:29:54
generation suddenly lost their
00:29:57
livelihoods.
00:30:01
I remember at the start of the 90s, the
00:30:07
parents of about half of my classmates
00:30:09
were either unemployed
00:30:14
or had their hours reduced.
00:30:15
Shipyard workers became warehouse
00:30:20
packers and teachers cleaners and trades
00:30:23
people were left without a trade. In
00:30:27
1994, 75% of the workforce in Eastern
00:30:29
Germany had different jobs to those they
00:30:32
had before unification, if any jobs at
00:30:33
all.
00:30:35
When the Berlin Wall came down in the
00:30:38
autumn of 1989, the number of working
00:30:41
people in the Eastern GDR was around 9.8
00:30:44
million. 2 years later, that figure had
00:30:47
dropped to 6.7 million.
00:30:50
Essentially,
00:30:52
you could say the East Germans got the
00:30:54
Troy hand and after the Second World
00:30:57
War, West Germany received the Marshall
00:31:00
Plan. So, in the West, democracy was
00:31:02
associated with becoming free and
00:31:05
becoming rich. Whereas later in the
00:31:07
East, democracy primarily meant an
00:31:10
experience of being disempowered and
00:31:12
some form of impoverishment, whether
00:31:15
economically, culturally, or socially, a
00:31:18
symbolical impoverishment. But for some
00:31:22
also in the very real sense
00:31:23
back then you'd often hear from
00:31:28
relatives at least you've got work. That
00:31:32
phrase was said a lot.
00:31:34
On the other hand a lot of people in the
00:31:40
east were saying if you go to college
00:31:42
you'll have an uncertain future. You'll
00:31:45
likely end up as a taxi driver.
00:31:47
harbor.
00:31:50
>> For many East German families, security
00:31:52
was deemed more important than social
00:31:55
advancement, as was the case with Mana
00:31:59
Clea at the start of her career.
00:32:00
I graduated from high school with great
00:32:05
grades, but I still wondered whether
00:32:08
vocational training might be preferable
00:32:09
to university.
00:32:12
Ultimately, so my family could see that
00:32:14
I'd be earning my own money right after
00:32:17
high school and therefore wouldn't be a
00:32:21
burden on them.
00:32:21
>> So, she first did vocational training
00:32:25
and then later went on to officially
00:32:27
study at university for diplomatic
00:32:28
service.
00:32:30
But she repeatedly saw cases of other
00:32:35
East Germans lacking that confidence.
00:32:41
>> Here at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs,
00:32:46
we see a lot of young people from
00:32:48
Eastern Germany not having the
00:32:51
confidence to submit an application. I'm
00:32:53
frequently asked, "How did you manage to
00:32:57
get your job?" Well, I applied. And in
00:33:00
many cases, it seems to me people aren't
00:33:02
realizing they even have that
00:33:05
opportunity.
00:33:08
Seeing those kinds of disappointments
00:33:11
and such in your family makes you risk
00:33:14
averse. When I was working in Maktuborg
00:33:16
in the late 1990s and talking to
00:33:19
sociology students, I often heard this.
00:33:21
Ideally, I'd work at the employment
00:33:24
agency,
00:33:26
not as a manager at the agency or
00:33:29
somewhere higher up at the Federal Labor
00:33:31
Ministry, but I'm just happy with a
00:33:35
mid-level job.
00:33:35
So, it's not surprising that people who
00:33:39
are now 45 or 50 are saying, "I have my
00:33:41
income, so why should I take a risk and
00:33:44
have all that bother?"
00:33:47
Current surveys show that in Western
00:33:52
Germany, 45% of people could imagine
00:33:55
taking on a job in senior management. In
00:33:59
the East, the figure is only 36%.
00:34:05
There's a degree of conditioning among
00:34:09
East Germans that you don't elbow your
00:34:11
way forward or constantly show that you
00:34:13
could well imagine being a boss. But
00:34:15
there are now a lot of young people with
00:34:18
a different outlook or you can't say
00:34:19
they're not willing to move up in
00:34:22
society.
00:34:23
But it does matter today whether you can
00:34:28
imagine realistically getting that job.
00:34:30
And if you don't know many people who
00:34:32
are in those leadership positions, then
00:34:34
it's harder to imagine that as an East
00:34:37
German.
00:34:41
Something that Ludvik Kerna has
00:34:46
experienced, too. He had to invest a lot
00:34:48
of time finding someone from the east to
00:34:52
become managing director at his company.
00:34:56
It's really not easy.
00:34:57
You simply don't come across people who
00:35:02
say, "Great, I'll do that."
00:35:04
>> After losing so much in the '9s, why
00:35:05
would you risk everything you've built
00:35:09
up for yourself?
00:35:12
>> Taking the initiative will be an
00:35:15
important factor to change the status
00:35:18
quo.
00:35:21
It's absolutely key that the east become
00:35:26
involved in established institutions.
00:35:27
People need to have the courage to seize
00:35:30
the opportunities available to have the
00:35:32
confidence and get informed and apply
00:35:34
for positions instead of feeling that
00:35:36
they have to give up before they've even
00:35:39
tried.
00:35:44
I think East Germans need to first look
00:35:48
at themselves and have a critical look
00:35:51
at what they have or haven't done and at
00:35:53
missed opportunities instead of focusing
00:35:56
solely on West Germans and the East West
00:35:59
divide.
00:35:59
>> And when it comes to only blaming those
00:36:03
from the West, Ludvik Karna has a
00:36:07
similar take.
00:36:10
There's one thing I think is really
00:36:14
dangerous and that's exceptionalism.
00:36:19
Believing you're special and unique.
00:36:19
You have to be really wary of that
00:36:23
happening especially in the east. We
00:36:26
Aussies are special. Nonsense. Every
00:36:28
part of Western Germany has its own
00:36:30
history too. So choosing that narrative
00:36:34
only leads in the wrong direction.
00:36:36
Karna always believed in the potential
00:36:39
of Eastern Germany and invested millions
00:36:41
of euros in the former state-owned
00:36:43
enterprise.
00:36:45
Today, Technikov claims to be the
00:36:47
world's leading manufacturer of
00:36:49
rail-mounted cranes, something that
00:36:51
wouldn't have been possible without
00:36:54
Western money and knowhow.
00:36:57
Of course, some people believe evil
00:37:00
Vessie businessman bad. But also, we
00:37:02
want people to help grow the economy,
00:37:04
which is totally unrealistic.
00:37:07
People have to see that this Vessie is
00:37:09
also a human being, too, who just wants
00:37:11
to get by and isn't some mother to raise
00:37:14
it either. For a company to work, you
00:37:16
need to get your elbows out and compete
00:37:18
in the market. And sometimes do things
00:37:21
internally that might not be so popular.
00:37:23
That's part of business.
00:37:26
Karna has created new jobs in Leipig. Is
00:37:29
he a Vessie exploiting the East though?
00:37:32
It's not as simple as that. Those West
00:37:34
German elites also include people who've
00:37:37
built themselves from the ground up as
00:37:39
was the case with Idris Gerabel when she
00:37:42
moved east for a job in the courts.
00:37:44
With no apartments available at the
00:37:46
time, she and her husband spent the
00:37:49
first 18 months in Nborg in a youth
00:37:52
hostel.
00:37:54
There was just so much to do. Sometimes
00:37:58
I didn't even bother changing clothes
00:38:01
and just went straight to bed and fell
00:38:03
asleep immediately. I started work at
00:38:05
6:00 or 7 at the latest and typically
00:38:09
stayed until 10 or 11 at night.
00:38:11
I recently read a workplace appraisal
00:38:13
that said the workload I'd done should
00:38:17
have been enough for several people.
00:38:19
The image of Vessie who only came east
00:38:24
for easy money is a cliche says the
00:38:27
judge.
00:38:30
>> I also know a lot of people who only
00:38:35
came for 6 months or a year who took on
00:38:38
this huge burden and worked really hard
00:38:40
while being away from their families for
00:38:42
weeks on end. They didn't come here to
00:38:46
simply enrich themselves.
00:38:48
Eastern Germany has profited hugely from
00:38:53
the sharing of expertise and also from
00:38:55
enrichment on the cultural and social
00:38:57
diversity front. We need to build more
00:38:59
bridges instead of creating enemies of
00:39:02
each other.
00:39:05
Mik from Leia has himself been trying to
00:39:09
build those bridges.
00:39:11
The professor wants to provide
00:39:13
encouragement for the next generation of
00:39:15
East Germans and teaches firstear
00:39:17
medical students.
00:39:19
I was a student too once a long time
00:39:23
ago. Before that, I was a nurse and then
00:39:25
became a neurosurgeon via further
00:39:30
education. And now I'm a professor.
00:39:32
His students come from all corners of
00:39:37
Germany.
00:39:39
Clinics are also trying to provide
00:39:42
greater support for young people from
00:39:45
the east in the form of scholarships for
00:39:48
those who stay on and want to pursue a
00:39:52
long-term career here.
00:40:02
The selection process also looks at
00:40:05
whether someone comes from the region
00:40:08
and has personal ties here. After
00:40:10
graduating, this scholarship will keep
00:40:12
them here and ensure they base their
00:40:15
future life here.
00:40:18
The scholarships are also a ticket into
00:40:22
the important networks that last a
00:40:25
lifetime. It's not just about the money.
00:40:27
It's also about meeting people who might
00:40:30
help you get ahead also outside your
00:40:34
field and about empowerment,
00:40:37
which is why we need more scholarships
00:40:41
for East Germans than is currently the
00:40:44
case.
00:40:45
All the scholarship foundations report
00:40:50
that far too few East German students
00:40:51
are applying for graduates or
00:40:54
post-graduate grants. they should
00:40:57
actually make up 20% of applicants. It
00:41:00
tends to be 2% max. And after becoming
00:41:03
aware of that, I set up an initiative at
00:41:05
the faculty here, but the response rate
00:41:08
is still low.
00:41:11
The objective is clear. More support for
00:41:13
young East Germans. And equally
00:41:15
important is that they recognize their
00:41:19
opportunities and seize them.
00:41:21
West Germans have helped to build up the
00:41:25
east of the country with many eager to
00:41:28
take on responsibility with dedication
00:41:31
and commitment. What's still missing is
00:41:33
more East Germans who make it into the
00:41:35
top jobs and have a say in the upper
00:41:39
echelons of society.
00:41:41
We have a lot of tough work ahead and
00:41:45
have to be patient for the socopolitical
00:41:48
impact to happen. The point is giving a
00:41:50
group within the population like any
00:41:52
other a fair chance and the support they
00:41:54
need to be able to bring their interests
00:41:57
and ideas into mainstream processes to
00:41:59
have a proper chance of making it to the
00:42:01
top.
00:42:04
36 years after the fall of the Berlin
00:42:06
Wall, there's still a marked imbalance
00:42:08
when it comes to the big jobs in Eastern
00:42:11
Germany. What was supposed to be a
00:42:13
transitory phase seems to be becoming a
00:42:16
permanent state of affairs and a source
00:42:19
of discontent.
