The Untouchables (full documentary) | FRONTLINE
Zusammenfassung
TLDRThe video titled "The Untouchables" investigates the lack of accountability of Wall Street executives in the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis. Despite significant evidence of widespread financial misconduct, no senior executives from major Wall Street firms faced criminal charges. The documentary highlights the failure of the Department of Justice to prosecute top figures, with officials like Lanny Breuer explaining the difficulty in proving criminal intent beyond a reasonable doubt. The video also features perspectives from financial insiders, whistleblowers, and lawmakers like Senator Ted Kaufman, who pushed for thorough investigations. There are acknowledgments of fraud at lower levels, but significant figures like the heads of banks remained uncharged. The segment also covers efforts by private law firms to pursue cases against major financial institutions for fraudulent activities. Ultimately, the documentary examines systemic challenges and decisions within the Justice Department that resulted in no major Wall Street executive being held accountable for the crisis.
Mitbringsel
- ๐ Investigations focused on why Wall Street executives weren't jailed post-2008 crisis.
- ๐ต๏ธโโ๏ธ Fraud was identified at lower levels, but proving executive intent was challenging.
- ๐ข Major Wall Street firms avoided criminal charges despite evidence of misconduct.
- ๐ผ No top executives faced criminal liability, fueling public frustration and distrust.
- ๐ฌ Whistleblowers like Richard Bowen reported internal issues but led to civil, not criminal, consequences.
- ๐ซ Department of Justice struggled to prove fraud beyond reasonable doubt.
- ๐ฅ Documentary highlights failures in accountability at higher levels of financial institutions.
- ๐ Significant financial misconduct occurred with systemic lack of top-level prosecutions.
- ๐งพ Private firms pursued legal actions, highlighting gaps in government enforcement.
- ๐ฃ๏ธ Ongoing public discourse on the necessity of accountability for financial crimes.
Zeitleiste
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The documentary investigates why no Wall Street executives were prosecuted for fraud following the financial crisis. Despite evidence of misconduct and a public outcry, the Justice Department did not indict any senior figures. Former Justice officials suggest a lack of effort and fear of losing high-profile cases contributed to this outcome.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
In 2009, amid economic ruin and job losses, there was an expectation of prosecutions for financial misconduct. Yet, no senior Wall Street executives were arrested. The Justice Department cited the difficulty in proving criminal intent as a major obstacle. Critics argue that greed and misconduct should have led to more aggressive investigations.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Mortgage originators like Countrywide played a key role in the crisis by approving risky loans. However, the Justice Department mainly targeted small players rather than the big banks. The large financial institutions like Countrywide and Bear Stearns lowered lending standards to meet Wall Street's demands, leading to massive fraud.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
Investigators needed insiders willing to expose the fraud within banks but had difficulty obtaining concrete evidence. Due diligence underwriters were pressured to approve faulty loans without questioning them. Fraud was rampant, yet legal action against Wall Street figures remained elusive.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Richard Bowen, a former Citigroup executive, warned his superiors about risky loan practices, but his pleas were ignored. The banking system eventually collapsed, leading to significant economic turmoil. Wall Street figures largely avoided prosecution, failing to hold anyone accountable for the crisis.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
Senator Ted Kaufman and others called for increased funding and resources to investigate financial crimes. However, efforts were stymied by the lack of FBI resources and political will. Despite legal reforms, meaningful prosecutions of senior Wall Street figures were still lacking years after the crisis.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
The Justice Department struggled to secure convictions in financial crisis-related cases, such as the acquittal of Bear Stearns hedge fund managers. Many believe political and legal hesitance prevented a more forceful pursuit of Wall Street executives, resulting in little accountability.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Attorney General Eric Schneiderman's civil suit against Bear Stearns successor JP Morgan Chase marked a significant legal challenge, yet no individuals were criminally charged. The suit highlighted the widespread fraud in mortgage securities, but the fundamental accountability concerns were largely unaddressed.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
Despite new regulations, private litigation drove legal challenges against Wall Street more than government efforts. Government entities often lagged behind in addressing fraud, relying on private suits for legal foundations. This lack of prompt response exacerbated public distrust in financial oversight.
- 00:45:00 - 00:53:17
Reports suggest the Justice Department prioritized financial stability over criminal prosecutions. High-level officials feared legal action might destabilize major banks. This approach protected large institutions but left many asking why no one was criminally charged despite clear evidence of wrongdoing.
Mind Map
Hรคufig gestellte Fragen
What is the main topic of the video?
The video discusses why no Wall Street executives were jailed following the 2008 financial crisis.
Were there any prosecutions related to the financial crisis?
Yes, there were prosecutions of small mortgage brokers and loan appraisers, but no top Wall Street executives were prosecuted.
Who was the chief of the Criminal Division at Justice during the crisis period?
Lanny Breuer was the chief of the Criminal Division at Justice.
Did any insider at banks report fraudulent activities?
Yes, Richard Bowen reported issues at Citigroup, indicating many loans did not meet policy guidelines.
Were any Wall Street banks investigated by the Department of Justice?
Investigations were carried out, but the Department of Justice found it difficult to prove criminal intent beyond a reasonable doubt.
Weitere Video-Zusammenfassungen anzeigen
- 00:00:00[Music]
- 00:00:04tonight fraud and potential criminal
- 00:00:07conduct were at the heart of the
- 00:00:08financial crisis more than 4 years later
- 00:00:11no one going to jail no individuals
- 00:00:13being held accountable this is totally
- 00:00:15about what went on in Wall Street
- 00:00:17Frontline investigates why no Wall
- 00:00:19Street Executives have gone to jail the
- 00:00:21FBI wasn't Aiming High Enough there was
- 00:00:23a definite sense that Justice backed off
- 00:00:26did the government fail a number of
- 00:00:28people told us that you didn't make this
- 00:00:30a top priority well I'm sorry if they
- 00:00:33think that because I made it an
- 00:00:34incredibly top priority so you're
- 00:00:36telling me that not one executive on
- 00:00:38Wall Street committed provable fraud I
- 00:00:41mean I just don't believe that tonight
- 00:00:43on front line The
- 00:00:45[Music]
- 00:00:50Untouchables although this downturn
- 00:00:52started in the housing sector and in the
- 00:00:54financial sector you're seeing a lot of
- 00:00:57things being hit today's numbers suggest
- 00:00:59job losses are 600,000 biggest loss
- 00:01:02since
- 00:01:051974 in 2009 Wall Street Bankers were on
- 00:01:09the defensive seen one and the Great
- 00:01:11American Mortgage bubble had burst this
- 00:01:13is a huge amount of money the economy
- 00:01:15was in Ruins and Wall Street Bankers
- 00:01:18were being blamed Market s during a time
- 00:01:20of worry about a giant Bankers admitted
- 00:01:22they had miscalculated crippled us Eon
- 00:01:25but they were also worried that they
- 00:01:26could be held criminally liable for
- 00:01:28fraud
- 00:01:30and President
- 00:01:31Obama trilon with a new Administration
- 00:01:33arriving in Washington bankers and their
- 00:01:36attorneys expected
- 00:01:37investigations and at least some
- 00:01:40prosecutions billion in mortgage back
- 00:01:42security was there a sense that there
- 00:01:44were going to be prosecutions of alleged
- 00:01:48fraud related to the mortgage crisis I
- 00:01:51think there was that expectation I think
- 00:01:53people uh had seen the financial crisis
- 00:01:57there was obviously a lot of conduct
- 00:01:59that had gone on uh that was improper
- 00:02:03and I think people were expecting to see
- 00:02:06some substantial
- 00:02:09prosecutions the men and women who duped
- 00:02:11would be homeowners who defrauded the
- 00:02:13American investor need to be identified
- 00:02:16prosecuted convicted and thrown in
- 00:02:19jail in Washington there was broad
- 00:02:22support for prosecuting Wall Street I
- 00:02:25was really upset about what went on on
- 00:02:28Wall Street that brought about the
- 00:02:29financial crisis
- 00:02:30not only destroyed the fin almost
- 00:02:31destroyed the financial system of the
- 00:02:32United States almost destroyed the
- 00:02:33financial system of the world at the end
- 00:02:35of the that doesn't happen the fin if
- 00:02:38there isn't something bad going
- 00:02:40on but today more than four years since
- 00:02:43the financial crisis of 2008 there have
- 00:02:46been no arrests of any senior Wall
- 00:02:48Street
- 00:02:50Executives chief of the Criminal
- 00:02:52Division at Justice Lanny Brewer says
- 00:02:55the problem is that greed is not
- 00:02:57necessarily criminal I am person
- 00:02:59personally offended by much of what I've
- 00:03:01seen I think there was a level of greed
- 00:03:04a level of excessive risk-taking in this
- 00:03:07situation that I find abominable and I
- 00:03:10find very upsetting but that is not what
- 00:03:13makes a criminal case what makes a
- 00:03:16criminal case is that I can prove beyond
- 00:03:18the Reasonable Doubt every element of a
- 00:03:22crime some former prosecutors believe
- 00:03:25the problem is a lack of
- 00:03:27effort justice department failed
- 00:03:30they have not done what needed to be
- 00:03:32done they didn't ever try to bring
- 00:03:35together in one coherent narrative
- 00:03:37laying out the entirety of the story
- 00:03:40against one of the major players and
- 00:03:42demand sanctions that are meaningful
- 00:03:44that to me is what has been
- 00:03:47fundamentally
- 00:03:49lacking the story of how the big Banks
- 00:03:51amassed enormous fortunes Packaging home
- 00:03:54loans into Securities and selling them
- 00:03:56to investors all over the world began of
- 00:03:59course on the ground with mortgage
- 00:04:02Originators what my econ one Prof taught
- 00:04:06us was business goes in Cycles my name
- 00:04:10is Michael Winston I work for
- 00:04:12Countrywide Financial Corporation from
- 00:04:142005 till 2008 they said their goal was
- 00:04:20um world class Goldman Sachs on the
- 00:04:22Pacific and they wanted me to realize
- 00:04:24their Vision now if you can reach up
- 00:04:27with both fists Michael Winston once
- 00:04:29lived inside the bubble at mortgage
- 00:04:31originator
- 00:04:33Countrywide at first Winston was
- 00:04:35impressed by CEO Angelo Millo and how he
- 00:04:38had turned Countrywide into America's
- 00:04:40number one mortgage company how you
- 00:04:44doing but just a few months into the job
- 00:04:47Winston had an encounter in the company
- 00:04:49parking lot I'd been there 5 months when
- 00:04:53I happened to park next to a car with
- 00:04:57personalized vanity plates and the
- 00:05:00personalized plates said
- 00:05:03fundom and um I had a conversation with
- 00:05:07the person nearest the car I didn't know
- 00:05:09if it was the owner or just some guy
- 00:05:11walking by and I just said um fundam
- 00:05:14that's an interesting plate what do you
- 00:05:15suppose that
- 00:05:17means and he said that's Angelo millo's
- 00:05:20growth strategy for 2006 noost ref and
- 00:05:23he said uh we have a loan for every
- 00:05:25customer a growing family with a lot of
- 00:05:27debt and I said a loan for every
- 00:05:28customer how can that be a business
- 00:05:31owner whose income was hard to document
- 00:05:33what if the person doesn't have a
- 00:05:36job fund them the the guy said I said
- 00:05:40what if he has no
- 00:05:43income fund him what if he has no assets
- 00:05:46and he said fund them one of them was
- 00:05:47turned down for a home loan by three
- 00:05:49different lenders I'm with Countrywide
- 00:05:52and I got them all approved I said I'm
- 00:05:54confused what are the standards you use
- 00:05:56the criteria against which you make
- 00:05:59Lending
- 00:06:00decisions and the guy looked at me
- 00:06:03smiled smugly and said if they can fog a
- 00:06:06mirror we'll give him a loan my name is
- 00:06:09Christopher Cruz I was a trainer of
- 00:06:11mortgage loan Originators throughout the
- 00:06:15country there was a Plano Texas office
- 00:06:18in Countrywide and people would Sidle up
- 00:06:19to me saying uh you wouldn't believe
- 00:06:22what's happening around here you
- 00:06:23wouldn't believe the loans I've been
- 00:06:25getting approved here they were just
- 00:06:27flabbergasted uh at at what would what
- 00:06:29is going through the pipeline these are
- 00:06:31still on the books did you know that
- 00:06:33Christopher Cruz describes an industry
- 00:06:35driven to loosen its standards by demand
- 00:06:38from New York you got the sense that
- 00:06:40Wall Street was in control of
- 00:06:42underwriting standards and not the
- 00:06:44mortgage industry what do you mean well
- 00:06:46if the underwriting was acceptable to
- 00:06:48Wall Street if the underwriting was
- 00:06:50acceptable to the ratings agencies
- 00:06:52that's all that counted and so my sense
- 00:06:55is it was probably a game among the
- 00:06:58people in The Mortgage business to say
- 00:07:00let's come up with one of the worst
- 00:07:01loans we can possibly imagine and see if
- 00:07:05Wall Street will buy it new homes are
- 00:07:07selling at the second highest rate on
- 00:07:09record and then that type of mentality
- 00:07:11translates into don't worry about
- 00:07:14whether the the documents are valid
- 00:07:16don't worry about whether we can verify
- 00:07:19income don't worry if the appraisal is
- 00:07:21any good just worry about getting the
- 00:07:23damn loan
- 00:07:24closed because if you can get that
- 00:07:26closed we can get that securitized and
- 00:07:29and then turn around and do another loan
- 00:07:31don't worry about it there's too much
- 00:07:33money out there just get the loan closed
- 00:07:36expected to out 36 billion do in bonuses
- 00:07:39this year this is totally about what
- 00:07:42went on in Wall Street was in fact Wall
- 00:07:44Street going out into California and
- 00:07:46saying hey just put the mortgage
- 00:07:47together don't worry whether they're
- 00:07:49good or not you get a fee I'll take them
- 00:07:51I'll bum them up I'll sell them off to
- 00:07:52somebody else I'll make my money on that
- 00:07:54and whatever happens to the mortgages
- 00:07:56doesn't really matter
- 00:08:01even during the bubble years the
- 00:08:02Department of Justice had arrested and
- 00:08:04prosecuted many small mortgage brokers
- 00:08:07loan appraisers and even home
- 00:08:10buyers but to go after Wall Street
- 00:08:12Bankers would prove to be much harder
- 00:08:15the justice department has indicted
- 00:08:17something like two to 3,000 people that
- 00:08:19were making the loans the loan right
- 00:08:22Originators right shooting fish in a
- 00:08:24barrel that's what that is no Bankers
- 00:08:26have gone to jail that surprise you
- 00:08:30no it doesn't surprise
- 00:08:33me to prosecute Wall Street
- 00:08:36investigators needed to find proof of
- 00:08:38what the bankers knew and what they
- 00:08:42intended this meant identifying people
- 00:08:44on the inside who were willing to
- 00:08:47talk I always believed you started the
- 00:08:50bottom up in a bank you started the
- 00:08:51credit department go to the credit
- 00:08:53department find out what the credit
- 00:08:55department knew those are the guys
- 00:08:56wearing green eye shades who don't get
- 00:08:58the big bonuses who want to make sure
- 00:09:01that the loans the underwritings are
- 00:09:04legitimate they actually crunch the
- 00:09:05numbers they're the ones who send the
- 00:09:07memos up to the folks who who get the
- 00:09:09big bucks how the folks at the top react
- 00:09:12to those memos is what determines
- 00:09:15whether the bank acts
- 00:09:18properly at the big investment Banks the
- 00:09:21credit departments hired contractors
- 00:09:23known as due diligence
- 00:09:26Underwriters my name is Tom Leonard uh I
- 00:09:30was a due diligence underwriter my name
- 00:09:32is Eileen Lou aino and I was a contract
- 00:09:36underwriter my name is Chico
- 00:09:38Morton and I was a due diligence
- 00:09:40underwriter what does a due diligence
- 00:09:42underwriter do a due diligence
- 00:09:44underwriter assesses the risk of buying
- 00:09:47loan
- 00:09:49portfolios so a Company on Wall Street
- 00:09:52they're going to buy a loan pull or a
- 00:09:56portfolio of loans and would be hired to
- 00:10:00go in and take a sample of the loans and
- 00:10:03review them so you were contract workers
- 00:10:06yes and then what would you do how would
- 00:10:07you go about doing the due diligence
- 00:10:10well we would um travel uh to the
- 00:10:14location where the loans were stored and
- 00:10:18we have a room either a hotel room
- 00:10:20conference room or uh some work room
- 00:10:23where we could set up tables and our uh
- 00:10:26laptop
- 00:10:28computers so the these loans would come
- 00:10:30in in in Banker boxes
- 00:10:33yes a lot of times we were doing the
- 00:10:35manual labor of of moving the boxes of
- 00:10:38loans back and forth load all these
- 00:10:40boxes on Vans and drive them to the
- 00:10:43hotel unload them at the hotel into the
- 00:10:46room where the due diligence
- 00:10:48Underwriters were working and they could
- 00:10:50be Stacks all the way up to the ceiling
- 00:10:53and there could be anywhere from 10 to
- 00:10:5620 separate mortgages within each
- 00:10:58banker's box
- 00:11:0030 Underwriters crammed at a table you
- 00:11:03know bumping shoulders and you know
- 00:11:07sometimes we're in there 6:30 sometimes
- 00:11:09we're out at 10: 11: 12 at night I've
- 00:11:12been on jobs where we we've worked
- 00:11:15late and so what was it like what was
- 00:11:17the atmosphere
- 00:11:19like um it was like a
- 00:11:22party you know we were all in hotels
- 00:11:24together so you know it it was
- 00:11:27definitely a party atmosphere we were
- 00:11:29getting through these loans as quick as
- 00:11:31we can they were not being looked at
- 00:11:33like they should have been looked
- 00:11:34at it wasn't uncommon to have an
- 00:11:37underwriter on one side of the room
- 00:11:39start to laugh and say you know hey get
- 00:11:42aell Lo to this you know here's a guy
- 00:11:44that's moving from $500 a month in rent
- 00:11:47to a
- 00:11:48$650,000 house and he's a um
- 00:11:52electrician and his wife is a
- 00:11:55waitress everybody in the room laughing
- 00:11:58somebody else would have another story
- 00:12:00school teacher making you know 10,000 a
- 00:12:03month or a
- 00:12:05waitress making you know 12,000 a
- 00:12:09month you're supposed to exercise some
- 00:12:12common sense and you know like say okay
- 00:12:15well is it reasonable that they could
- 00:12:17make XYZ a month but um a lot of
- 00:12:22times we didn't do that you didn't do
- 00:12:25that on the instruction of your
- 00:12:27supervisor your lead right so the lead
- 00:12:30would say what
- 00:12:34um looks reasonable to
- 00:12:36me the lead would say uh that waitress
- 00:12:40making $112,000 a month looks reasonable
- 00:12:42to me yeah you're kidding well depending
- 00:12:45on the area you know if it's what area
- 00:12:48does a waitress make 12,000 a month Las
- 00:12:50Vegas you know if it's Vegas then you
- 00:12:54know
- 00:12:55possibly with tips and all that stuff or
- 00:13:00I can't do the math but it sounds pretty
- 00:13:02high right it it is
- 00:13:05high you couldn't say the word fraud
- 00:13:09because we couldn't prove that it was
- 00:13:10fraud well if you saw something that was
- 00:13:12a misrepresentation yes you were
- 00:13:15expressly told don't write fraud or
- 00:13:18mention use the word fraud all the time
- 00:13:22even if we suspected we had to say this
- 00:13:25appears to
- 00:13:27be incorrect you would never say this
- 00:13:31looks
- 00:13:32fraudulent were you told to
- 00:13:35ignore loans that you clearly knew um
- 00:13:40contained
- 00:13:43fraud
- 00:13:46um well fraud in the due diligence world
- 00:13:50world fraud was the fword or the f
- 00:13:54bomb um you didn't use that word even if
- 00:13:57a loan was clearly
- 00:14:00you know stated income loan that made no
- 00:14:02sense there was no support but you
- 00:14:03didn't use the word fraud when but it
- 00:14:06was
- 00:14:07fraud uh you saw Lo by your terms and my
- 00:14:10terms yes it was fraud by the due
- 00:14:13diligence terms it was something
- 00:14:17else and it wasn't just outside contract
- 00:14:20Underwriters who were finding fraud
- 00:14:23insiders at the big Banks were finding
- 00:14:25problems my name is Richard Bowen I was
- 00:14:29with City group and I was a senior vice
- 00:14:32president and business Chief underwriter
- 00:14:36in the commercial lending
- 00:14:39group and the overall operations I had
- 00:14:42purview over involved about 90 billion a
- 00:14:45year of mortgages we were purchasing
- 00:14:47from other mortgage companies and what
- 00:14:49were you to do with those 90 billion
- 00:14:52worth of mortgages I had responsibility
- 00:14:56to make sure that those mortgages met
- 00:14:58our credit policy guidelines so the bank
- 00:15:02had agreed to buy these loans subject to
- 00:15:06their meeting our credit policy but you
- 00:15:08found out that the loans that you were
- 00:15:11your team was looking at didn't meet the
- 00:15:13credit policy we found that
- 00:15:15approximately 60% of the loans did not
- 00:15:18meet our policy 60% 60% yes 60% of the
- 00:15:23loans didn't
- 00:15:24meet our policy your policy yes and the
- 00:15:27volumes increased
- 00:15:30through
- 00:15:312007 and the rate of defective mortgages
- 00:15:34increased from 60% to an access of
- 00:15:3880% on November 3rd 2007 Bowen wrote an
- 00:15:43email to four senior City Bank
- 00:15:45Executives including board chairman and
- 00:15:48former Secretary of the Treasury Robert
- 00:15:50Rubin since mid2 2006 I have continually
- 00:15:54identified breakdowns in internal
- 00:15:56controls I must now communicate these
- 00:16:00concerns I am deeply
- 00:16:02distressed I actually included in that
- 00:16:06email myself phone told them I was
- 00:16:08available this weekend to please call me
- 00:16:11and in that email I also requested an
- 00:16:14outside investigation and in December I
- 00:16:18sent another email and I said please
- 00:16:21contact me you need to know the details
- 00:16:25behind this there are risk to the
- 00:16:27company
- 00:16:29just a few months ago they were giants
- 00:16:31but now they need restur there were
- 00:16:33risks to the entire country is simply
- 00:16:36too big by 2008 highly leveraged Banks
- 00:16:39stuffed with bad loans began to
- 00:16:44fail is gone what did you think when
- 00:16:47Bear Sterns went
- 00:16:48down I couldn't believe it like I
- 00:16:51thought the whole banking system was
- 00:16:52about to go
- 00:16:54down old brothers filed for bankrupcy
- 00:16:57billions drained from the economy
- 00:16:59overnight the party was over and said
- 00:17:03everything and a lot of
- 00:17:06people was having a temper tantrum on
- 00:17:09his show where he was going off about
- 00:17:13you know why didn't I hear about this
- 00:17:15why didn't somebody tell me about all
- 00:17:17this that was going on this industry
- 00:17:19deined 90% 90% And I almost threw my
- 00:17:23shoe through the television set just
- 00:17:25heard the words look stop the BS here if
- 00:17:27I was screaming and yelling
- 00:17:29I did try to let you
- 00:17:32know cuz he had been one of the ones
- 00:17:34that I'd sent emails and never received
- 00:17:37any response millions of American
- 00:17:38taxpayers are still wondering how did we
- 00:17:41get ourselves into this economic mess
- 00:17:43and is there someone truly
- 00:17:52blame hello
- 00:17:55everybody to help prosecute those who
- 00:17:57were to blame President Obama signed a
- 00:18:00new bill four months ago today we took
- 00:18:03office amidst unprecedented economic
- 00:18:06turmoil it was designed to amend
- 00:18:08America's fraud statutes sign the fraud
- 00:18:11enforcement Recovery Act to make
- 00:18:12prosecution easier and also to increase
- 00:18:15funding for the SEC the FBI and the
- 00:18:18Department of Justice Senator Ted
- 00:18:21Kaufman is a Democrat from Delware the
- 00:18:23man who now holds the seat vacated by
- 00:18:25Vice President Joe Biden Senator Senator
- 00:18:27Ted Kaufman was a CO sponsor of the bill
- 00:18:30he was an unusual Senator when this
- 00:18:32particular term is up what are you going
- 00:18:34to do oh I'm going to leave I I I would
- 00:18:36I would never run for office appointed
- 00:18:38to replace Senator Joe Biden he had
- 00:18:40taken no campaign money and was beholden
- 00:18:43to no lobbyists want to see people who
- 00:18:46have committed such fraud and the Havoc
- 00:18:48that's caused to this country frankly I
- 00:18:51want to see them go to jail out who can
- 00:18:53invest in early 2009 Kaufman joined his
- 00:18:56colleagues on the Senate Judiciary
- 00:18:57Committee to discuss bolstering the FBI
- 00:19:00and Justice Department's Financial
- 00:19:02crimes units uh I'm going to ask some
- 00:19:04questions to each of you my feeling and
- 00:19:07Senator Le's feeling is that you know if
- 00:19:10you're going to stop crime the best way
- 00:19:12is to punish crime and the best way to
- 00:19:14do that is put people in jail Senator
- 00:19:17cofman senators were surprised by how
- 00:19:20unprepared the government was to
- 00:19:22investigate Wall Street the deputy
- 00:19:25director of the FBI gave incredible
- 00:19:27testimony after 911 we moved almost
- 00:19:292,000 criminal investigative resources
- 00:19:32over to National Security matters he
- 00:19:33said what happened was the government
- 00:19:35had transferred a great deal of the FBI
- 00:19:38agents over to anti-terrorism but they
- 00:19:40didn't replace them so we basically down
- 00:19:42to 200 FBI agents have about 240 agents
- 00:19:46and what he said was essentially during
- 00:19:47the Savings and Loan crisis there were a
- 00:19:50thousand FBI agents working on fraud
- 00:19:53Charles K millionaire Banker after the
- 00:19:55SNL crisis of the 80s the government
- 00:19:58respond
- 00:19:59forcefully back then Justice convicted
- 00:20:02over 1,000 Bankers a third of them top
- 00:20:05Executives was leted off in handcuffs
- 00:20:08today you've introduced a bill that you
- 00:20:11believe will in the wake of the
- 00:20:13financial crisis of 2008 say more about
- 00:20:16actually Kaufman wanted the government
- 00:20:18to respond as it had in the past we
- 00:20:20should find them and if they're guilty
- 00:20:21of a crime they should go to jail why
- 00:20:23should people hearing you have any
- 00:20:24confidence that there will be serious
- 00:20:27investigations and serious penalties to
- 00:20:29some of the biggest and most powerful
- 00:20:31people in Corporate America trust me
- 00:20:33it's going to happen I talked to uh kman
- 00:20:36became frontman for the new fraud
- 00:20:38enforcement
- 00:20:39Bill Head began giving speeches and
- 00:20:42writing up EDS about how important it
- 00:20:44was you know we came up with this sort
- 00:20:47of slogan that you know when people rob
- 00:20:49a bank they know they're going to go to
- 00:20:50jail somebody Robs a store they get
- 00:20:52caught they go to jail if somebody robs
- 00:20:54hundreds of millions of dollars they
- 00:20:55should go to jail when Bankers Rob
- 00:20:57people they should know they're going to
- 00:20:58go to jail commit a big crime go to jail
- 00:21:01for Big Time these people should go to
- 00:21:02jail lots of people on Wall Street said
- 00:21:04what are you doing you're trying to
- 00:21:05destroy the banks there's no crime up
- 00:21:06here we didn't commit any crimes there's
- 00:21:08no reason to come up here and start
- 00:21:09talking about crimes plus we're very
- 00:21:11very fragile and you know something
- 00:21:13could happen if in fact you start
- 00:21:14talking about crime which was just
- 00:21:17totally
- 00:21:18completely ridiculous you believe you're
- 00:21:21being used as a state there was one case
- 00:21:24already in the pipeline it had been
- 00:21:26started under the Bush Administration
- 00:21:28and involved two be Sterns hedge fund
- 00:21:31managers charged with deceiving
- 00:21:33investors it was seen as a test case aha
- 00:21:37finally we're beginning to see the
- 00:21:39criminal cases that will evidence a
- 00:21:41determination by the justice department
- 00:21:44to bring to Justice those individuals
- 00:21:47who misled the public who misled
- 00:21:48investors who knowing that an investment
- 00:21:51was bad still said it's good at first
- 00:21:55prosecutors were optimistic the need
- 00:21:58reaction when this case was brought was
- 00:22:01that since people were ins sensed about
- 00:22:03what was happening with the economy
- 00:22:05would be a simple type of prosecution I
- 00:22:07think there was that General perception
- 00:22:09and so they'd figure that they'd have an
- 00:22:12easy conviction and you know I mean I
- 00:22:14think they believed in what they're
- 00:22:15doing I'm not going to say they were
- 00:22:17malevolent uh but they were naive in
- 00:22:19documents unsealed by the strongest Cas
- 00:22:22the government says that the emails are
- 00:22:24direct with no whistleblowers talking
- 00:22:26prosecutors had to rely on the interpret
- 00:22:28of a few emils us to M 18 Wall Street
- 00:22:33defense attorneys went to work well it's
- 00:22:36been a f moving trial and after a 3we
- 00:22:38trial the government failed to convince
- 00:22:40a jury that the hedge fund managers were
- 00:22:42guilty involing those not guilty of
- 00:22:45charges that they def were you surprised
- 00:22:46by the outcome of the bear Stern hedge
- 00:22:48fund manager's case I was a little
- 00:22:51surprised but I wasn't shocked um these
- 00:22:54are hard cases to win was the justice
- 00:22:56department wrong to go after those two
- 00:22:58guys no I thought that that was a
- 00:23:01reasonable case uh for the government to
- 00:23:03bring um now the fact it's a reasonable
- 00:23:06case to bring doesn't mean you're always
- 00:23:07going to win the quiddle in that case
- 00:23:10left many of us feeling a little empty
- 00:23:13got to put a big Ranch in the
- 00:23:14government's prosecution scheme there
- 00:23:16was a definite sense that Justice backed
- 00:23:19off and that they became timorous when
- 00:23:22it came to making the cases that would
- 00:23:25really have gone to the heart of what
- 00:23:27did happen
- 00:23:29in the crisis of
- 00:23:32o08 Senator Kaufman was worried he
- 00:23:36wanted to make sure that Justice
- 00:23:37wouldn't shy from the next opportunity
- 00:23:40and that the money Congress had
- 00:23:41appropriated would not go to
- 00:23:44waste headed said to Chairman Ley I
- 00:23:48would like to chair an oversight hearing
- 00:23:51to ensure that these funds are being
- 00:23:52spent effectively we met with Lanny
- 00:23:54Brewer who was the head of the Criminal
- 00:23:56Division we met with Rob kazami who was
- 00:23:58head of uh enforcement for the SEC we
- 00:24:01met with a senior Deputy in the FBI
- 00:24:03Kevin
- 00:24:05Perkins we sat down and we sort of got
- 00:24:07down to business and Ted said chairman
- 00:24:09Ley has asked me to hold an oversight
- 00:24:11hearing that will provide me with a
- 00:24:13public form to explore you know just
- 00:24:16what you're doing on this front of
- 00:24:18investigating Wall Street well that
- 00:24:19certainly got their attention they
- 00:24:21started telling me about uh about this
- 00:24:23great thing they had out in California
- 00:24:25this web to catch the mortgage brokers
- 00:24:27who had giv out the loans and we made it
- 00:24:30clear to them I made it clear to them
- 00:24:31that absolutely positively I don't I'm
- 00:24:33not this is not about La this is totally
- 00:24:35about what went on on Wall Street that's
- 00:24:37what the bill says and that's what the
- 00:24:39emphasis is we said you know don't just
- 00:24:40come back here a couple of years from
- 00:24:42now and say you know look at all the
- 00:24:44small fry we we nailed the wall you know
- 00:24:47we're talking about also investigating
- 00:24:50senior level people at Wall Street firms
- 00:24:54even at the board level I think we might
- 00:24:57have been a little bit concerned at this
- 00:24:59meeting that um that the FBI wasn't
- 00:25:02necessarily at that point this is now
- 00:25:04fall of 2009 Aiming High
- 00:25:08Enough shortly before the hearing the
- 00:25:10justice department made an announcement
- 00:25:13President Obama has established the
- 00:25:15financial fraud enforcement task force
- 00:25:17to investigate and to prosecute fraud
- 00:25:20and financial crime this is the value of
- 00:25:23oversight hearings a week before our
- 00:25:24hearing they announced the fraud task
- 00:25:26force and we will not hesitate to bring
- 00:25:27charges where appropriate for criminal
- 00:25:29misconduct somebody had to come to that
- 00:25:31hearing and talk about what they were
- 00:25:32doing and so that was the impetus I am
- 00:25:34convinced of the day I die that the only
- 00:25:36reason that fraud task force was
- 00:25:37announced at that point was because
- 00:25:39somebody had to go to the hearing Mr
- 00:25:40Brewer last month we saw a jury acit the
- 00:25:42two Bear Sterns hedge fund managers are
- 00:25:44there lessons we can learn from that or
- 00:25:46is that just a oneoff I'm a big believer
- 00:25:48in the jury system and juries are going
- 00:25:49to do what juries feel are right these
- 00:25:51are tough cases but we're going to
- 00:25:53continue to bring them it's not a
- 00:25:55deterrence at all uh we're we're we're
- 00:25:57marching
- 00:25:58one of the things that oversight
- 00:25:59hearings do is it holds folks feet to
- 00:26:02the fire we wanted to get them to say
- 00:26:04what they could in public that
- 00:26:06paralleled what they had said to us in
- 00:26:08private why don't why haven't we seen
- 00:26:10more you know
- 00:26:12boardroom uh prosecutions Senator these
- 00:26:15are complicated cases don't for a moment
- 00:26:17think that they're not being pursued and
- 00:26:19investigated from Main Street to Wall
- 00:26:21Street and Beyond we are focused on that
- 00:26:24and we will bring the cases where we
- 00:26:26where where where it's appropriate isn't
- 00:26:27this a bit of the I mean they had the
- 00:26:29questions in advance well I thought it
- 00:26:31was fair theater because you know we
- 00:26:34were asking tough questions if we come
- 00:26:36back a year from now and we're having
- 00:26:37this hearing how much progress do you
- 00:26:39think we''ll made on uh I do think it
- 00:26:42served a purpose I mean do I wish we had
- 00:26:45been even more aggressive yes but we
- 00:26:47were willing to give them the benefit of
- 00:26:49the doubt and we felt like okay let's
- 00:26:51sit back and let them do their
- 00:26:55jobs going to go this door the left but
- 00:26:58over for the next year it would be
- 00:26:59others not the justice department who
- 00:27:02put Bankers on the witness stand we are
- 00:27:04audited and reviewed and subject and we
- 00:27:07have due diligence practices was your
- 00:27:09due diligence adequate beginning in
- 00:27:11January
- 00:27:122010 a fact finding commission
- 00:27:14established and funded by Kaufman's
- 00:27:16fraud enforcement and Recovery Act held
- 00:27:19a series of public hearings ingage
- 00:27:21underwriting somehow we just missed uh
- 00:27:25you know that home prices don't go up
- 00:27:26forever we held 19 public hearings we
- 00:27:29reviewed millions of pages of documents
- 00:27:32uh corporate documents regulatory
- 00:27:34documents most of which had never seen
- 00:27:37the light of day Mr
- 00:27:39Bowen thank you Mr chairman I witnessed
- 00:27:42business risk practices which made a
- 00:27:45mockery of City Credit policy if you
- 00:27:48take a organization like City group for
- 00:27:50example people involved in due diligence
- 00:27:52Like Richard Bowen to substantial risk
- 00:27:54of loss signaled up the line all the way
- 00:27:58up to Robert Rubin that something was
- 00:28:00wrong that they were finding that some
- 00:28:0260% of mortgages that they were buying
- 00:28:05weren't meeting their standards Mr Bowen
- 00:28:08sent you an email in one exchange the
- 00:28:11commission asked City bank's Robert
- 00:28:12Rubin to respond to Bowen's email did
- 00:28:15you ever act on that um Mr chairman I I
- 00:28:18I do recollect this and that either I or
- 00:28:21somebody else I truly do not remember
- 00:28:23who but either I or somebody else sent
- 00:28:24it to the appropriate people Ruben told
- 00:28:26Angeles that actions were taken to
- 00:28:28improve the bank's due diligence
- 00:28:31operations but his Recollections were
- 00:28:33vague I certainly don't remember today
- 00:28:36whether I knew at the time or not I I
- 00:28:37truly do know if the excuse at the top
- 00:28:40was we didn't know that's a pretty poor
- 00:28:43excuse from people who were hauling down
- 00:28:4410 20 30 or in Robert rubin's case $15
- 00:28:50million Bowen was demoted and eventually
- 00:28:53left the bank but later City Group
- 00:28:56admitted wrongdoing and civil fraud suit
- 00:28:59for failing to perform basic due
- 00:29:01diligence between 2004 and
- 00:29:052010 another focus of the commission was
- 00:29:08the work of a due diligence company
- 00:29:10named Clayton Holdings you know one
- 00:29:12piece of information that we released
- 00:29:15were documents from Clayton Holdings uh
- 00:29:18who performed due diligence for two
- 00:29:21dozen Banks uh who were buying mortgages
- 00:29:24from the Countrywide the Ameriquest the
- 00:29:27new centuries packaging those loans up
- 00:29:29and selling them to
- 00:29:31investors I mean if you look at those
- 00:29:33documents what they show is in each of
- 00:29:36these Banks Clayton Holdings was finding
- 00:29:38that a substantial portion of the loans
- 00:29:41did not meet the standards of the bank
- 00:29:43buying those loans and bank after Bank
- 00:29:46after bank they took those loans they
- 00:29:49knew they were defective and not
- 00:29:52withstanding that they never told the
- 00:29:54investors in fact they told investors
- 00:29:56quite the opposite
- 00:29:58so you look at that pattern of behavior
- 00:30:00and I think it raises very serious
- 00:30:02questions about whether this is Criminal
- 00:30:06conduct this was among several referrals
- 00:30:09the commission made to the justice
- 00:30:11department for further investigation
- 00:30:13okay we asked chief of the Criminal
- 00:30:15Division Lenny Brewer why such referrals
- 00:30:18hadn't led to charges I can't really
- 00:30:20talk about any specific case but Phil
- 00:30:22Angeles and I have had very direct and
- 00:30:25very good
- 00:30:26conversations but in real ity in a
- 00:30:28criminal case we have to prove Beyond A
- 00:30:31Reasonable Doubt not a preponderance not
- 00:30:3451% Beyond any reasonable doubt that a
- 00:30:37crime was committed if we cannot
- 00:30:39establish that then we can't bring a
- 00:30:41criminal case but we don't let these
- 00:30:42institutions go we've brought civil
- 00:30:45cases we've brought regulatory cases and
- 00:30:48the entire approach here is to have a
- 00:30:50multi-prong comprehensive approach to
- 00:30:53what gave rise to the financial crisis
- 00:30:58to go to jail in April
- 00:31:002010 Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd blank fine
- 00:31:04was summoned to the hill by Senator Carl
- 00:31:06Levan Martha Stewart can go to
- 00:31:09jail this would be the biggest showdown
- 00:31:11between Congress and a major Wall Street
- 00:31:15Banker blank fine was
- 00:31:18Unapologetic clients know our activities
- 00:31:20and they understand what Market making
- 00:31:22is do you think they know that you think
- 00:31:24something is a piece of crap when you
- 00:31:26sell it to them and then bet against it
- 00:31:28you think they know that nature of the
- 00:31:29principal business and Market making
- 00:31:31Lloyd blankin argued was perfectly okay
- 00:31:34at the same time we were selling
- 00:31:35securities to you we were betting on the
- 00:31:37fact these Securities were going to go
- 00:31:38down but that's okay because we're a
- 00:31:39market maker and we're allowed to do
- 00:31:41that that sounds like a fraud to me in
- 00:31:43the first half of
- 00:31:452007 Goldman Sachs told long position
- 00:31:48cdos to its clients right we sold uh we
- 00:31:51reduced our risk so you were selling
- 00:31:53cdos at the same time you were taking
- 00:31:55short positions on the same cdos the
- 00:31:58best way of reducing your risk is to
- 00:32:01sell what you
- 00:32:04have I believe in a free market if it's
- 00:32:08going to be truly free it cannot be
- 00:32:11designed for just a few people it must
- 00:32:13be free of deception it's got to be free
- 00:32:16of conflicts of interest it needs a cop
- 00:32:18on the beat and it's got to get back on
- 00:32:20Wall
- 00:32:21Street We Stand
- 00:32:25adjourned Senator Levan referred his
- 00:32:27committee's findings to justice but
- 00:32:30again the department declined to bring
- 00:32:32any criminal charges no one going to
- 00:32:35jail no individuals being held
- 00:32:37accountable for anything other than
- 00:32:38relatively poultry fines the justice
- 00:32:40department says these are very difficult
- 00:32:42cases to bring showing intent and
- 00:32:44proving every step of the crime Beyond A
- 00:32:47Reasonable Doubt is a difficult thing to
- 00:32:48do I think that is without a doubt a
- 00:32:50factor in the difficulty of proving
- 00:32:53intent but I'm sorry I just don't
- 00:32:55believe there was enough effort
- 00:32:59just doesn't make common sense so you're
- 00:33:00telling me that not one
- 00:33:03Banker not one executive on Wall Street
- 00:33:06not one player in this entire financial
- 00:33:11crisis committed provable fraud I mean I
- 00:33:15just don't believe
- 00:33:19that Kaufman and conon were running out
- 00:33:22of
- 00:33:23patience I've talked to Senator Kaufman
- 00:33:25I've talked to Senator Grassley I've
- 00:33:27talked to staff I've talked to a number
- 00:33:28of people they told us that they felt
- 00:33:31that you didn't make this a top priority
- 00:33:35well I'm sorry if they think that
- 00:33:37because I made it an incredibly top
- 00:33:39priority but when we can't bring a case
- 00:33:41we have a we have an ethical obligation
- 00:33:43not to bring those cases but it's not
- 00:33:46for lack of trying our lawyers are
- 00:33:49working incredibly hard and it's a
- 00:33:51disservice for anyone to suggest
- 00:33:54otherwise in all of this was there a
- 00:33:57case that you you thought could have
- 00:33:58gone forward as a criminal prosecution
- 00:34:00that
- 00:34:01didn't you know there were a lot of
- 00:34:03discussions along those lines um and I I
- 00:34:06talked to Lanny when I was in the
- 00:34:08Criminal Division daily did you argue
- 00:34:10with him yes and we would argue this
- 00:34:14back and forth and then we but when we
- 00:34:16finally came to a
- 00:34:19decision sometimes I would be frustrated
- 00:34:22sometimes I would be disappointed you
- 00:34:23always accepted the decision but I
- 00:34:25accepted it as a professional as a
- 00:34:27professional did you accept it as a
- 00:34:29citizen well that's I mean that's that's
- 00:34:31a bit different because as a citizen I
- 00:34:34would hope that something would happen
- 00:34:35to them somehow some
- 00:34:37way Frontline spoke to two former
- 00:34:40highlevel justice department prosecutors
- 00:34:42who served in the Criminal Division
- 00:34:44under Lanny
- 00:34:46Brewer in their opinion Brewer was
- 00:34:49overly fearful of
- 00:34:51losing we spoke to a couple of sources
- 00:34:54from within the Criminal Division and
- 00:34:57they reported that when it came to Wall
- 00:34:59Street there were no investigations
- 00:35:01going on there were no subpoenas no
- 00:35:03document reviews no wir Taps well I
- 00:35:06don't know who you spoke with because we
- 00:35:08have looked hard at the very types of
- 00:35:11matters that you're talking about these
- 00:35:12sources said that at the weekly
- 00:35:14indictment approval meetings that there
- 00:35:17was no case ever mentioned that was even
- 00:35:19close to indicting Wall Street for
- 00:35:24financial crimes well Martin if you look
- 00:35:26at what we in the US attorney community
- 00:35:28did I think you have to take a step back
- 00:35:31over the last couple of years we have
- 00:35:34convicted Raj Raj chatam now you'll say
- 00:35:36that's an insider trading case but it's
- 00:35:39clearly going after Wall Street but it
- 00:35:41has nothing to do with the financial
- 00:35:42crisis the Meltdown the packaging of Bad
- 00:35:45Mortgages that led to the collapse that
- 00:35:46led to the recession well first of all I
- 00:35:48think that the financial crisis Martin
- 00:35:51is multifaceted and what we've had is a
- 00:35:53multi-pronged multifaceted response and
- 00:35:56it's simply a fiction to say that where
- 00:35:58crimes were committed we didn't pursue
- 00:36:00the cases and that's why where crimes
- 00:36:03were committed you have more people in
- 00:36:05jail today for Securities fraud bank
- 00:36:08fraud and the like than ever before but
- 00:36:10no Wall Street Executives no Wall Street
- 00:36:16Executives by September 2010 Senator
- 00:36:20Kaufman's term was nearing its
- 00:36:22end before leaving he held a second
- 00:36:25oversight hearing Criminal on Wall
- 00:36:28Street must be held to account head
- 00:36:30decided he wanted to have a second
- 00:36:31hearing before he left office so that he
- 00:36:34could question Brewer Perkins and kazami
- 00:36:37we're now nearing the final quarter of
- 00:36:392010 without the sort of prosecutions
- 00:36:41that I had fully expected we would hope
- 00:36:42to see by this time what was the
- 00:36:44thinking I mean if you can recount any
- 00:36:46conversations that you had with uh
- 00:36:48Senator Kaufman about you know let's
- 00:36:50pull these guys back into the room from
- 00:36:52our perspective it was a big mystery you
- 00:36:54know we really believed that there was
- 00:36:56sufficient evidence of fraud that there
- 00:36:58should have been some cases if uh heads
- 00:37:01don't roll nobody U makes any changes
- 00:37:04I'm disappointed that in all of the
- 00:37:06wrongdoing that went on and all the
- 00:37:08fraud that went on that there wasn't an
- 00:37:10effort to go after bigger fish than the
- 00:37:15evidence shows they went after I think
- 00:37:17many times you have very sophisticated
- 00:37:18parties on both sides of the Mr Brewer
- 00:37:21basically kept his testimony at the
- 00:37:22level of generalities you know where the
- 00:37:25right balance is I think is and I was
- 00:37:27sitting there there behind the senator
- 00:37:28thinking you're dancing around the
- 00:37:30central question did the department
- 00:37:33undertake a purposeful concerted timely
- 00:37:38investigation of higher level Wall
- 00:37:40Street Executives for very complicated
- 00:37:43cases there lots of different issues and
- 00:37:45at that point I just began to feel like
- 00:37:48okay I I feel like I'm being gamed here
- 00:37:50they take time they take the review Not
- 00:37:53only was no one going to be held to
- 00:37:55account for the financial crisis
- 00:37:58but and I don't say this lightly no one
- 00:38:02was being held to account for the
- 00:38:04failure to hold Wall Street to
- 00:38:06account I really think this was a stain
- 00:38:10on the American justice
- 00:38:12system and I did not want to be an
- 00:38:16accomplice to
- 00:38:19that so I packed my bags sold my house
- 00:38:22and left town the day Ted Kaufman's term
- 00:38:24was over
- 00:38:27I literally was driving down
- 00:38:31I95 the day he left
- 00:38:34office reported a 47% increase in income
- 00:38:38for the fourth quarter and Bank of
- 00:38:39America said
- 00:38:47[Music]
- 00:38:50they meanwhile a freelance journalist
- 00:38:52and blogger named Terry bule was sipping
- 00:38:55cocktails in Connecticut I was actually
- 00:38:57at a fundraiser in Greenwich and I met a
- 00:39:00man running for congress and he told me
- 00:39:03about a documentary filmmaker Nick
- 00:39:05verbitsky who had been collecting a lot
- 00:39:07of interviews from be Stern's employees
- 00:39:10so I go out and I find a borrower and I
- 00:39:12lend this borrower $100,000 I actually
- 00:39:15had a friend who who put me in touch
- 00:39:17with a couple of people who ended up in
- 00:39:18the film um people that worked at EMC
- 00:39:21mortgage which was Bear's mortgage
- 00:39:23conduit I was really the factory floor
- 00:39:26million of their entire mortgage
- 00:39:28operation problem with due diligence is
- 00:39:29it's very costly we went through about
- 00:39:32three to four hours of multiple
- 00:39:34whistleblower tape detailing a massive
- 00:39:38fraud at the highest level inside of be
- 00:39:40Sterns against its own clients bu wrote
- 00:39:44a story for the Atlantic monthly's
- 00:39:45website featuring two be Sterns insiders
- 00:39:48verbitsky had interviewed in the first
- 00:39:51call I got after that story came out was
- 00:39:53from a few lawyers who wanted to meet
- 00:39:55our whistleblowers
- 00:39:57and they were representing a group of
- 00:40:00mortgage insurers called monolines what
- 00:40:02did they tell you they told us that they
- 00:40:05were working on a massive fraud suit
- 00:40:06against Bear Sterns and that it's
- 00:40:09critical that our whistleblowers help
- 00:40:12build their case the lawyers worked at
- 00:40:15the New York firm Patterson bellnap web
- 00:40:17and Tyler they were suing Bear Sterns
- 00:40:20and its successor JP Morgan Chase on
- 00:40:23behalf of companies that had ensured the
- 00:40:25quality of the loans bear was selling
- 00:40:28in January of 2011 they filed a 161 page
- 00:40:33complaint and within 160 pages that
- 00:40:36document essentially summed up what
- 00:40:40looks to be the core of the credit
- 00:40:42crisis Mark Palmer has poured through
- 00:40:45the be Sterns lawsuit and a dozen other
- 00:40:47private Suits now pending against other
- 00:40:49Wall Street banks for fraudulently
- 00:40:52misrepresenting the mortgages they
- 00:40:54packaged and sold you say this is the
- 00:40:56core of the credit crisis I believe so
- 00:40:58based on what we've seen thus far uh
- 00:41:01frankly I think there are some pretty
- 00:41:03decent evidence that uh the mortgage
- 00:41:06securitization industry was rot to the
- 00:41:09core do you think the government should
- 00:41:11have brought criminal cases against
- 00:41:13these
- 00:41:14players I would find it difficult to
- 00:41:16believe that there wasn't sufficient
- 00:41:19evidence to at least Indi many of the
- 00:41:22players involved
- 00:41:24here in building their cases a Attorneys
- 00:41:27at Patterson bmap spoke to over 35
- 00:41:30whistleblowers many of them due
- 00:41:32diligence supervisors and
- 00:41:35Underwriters among them Tom Leonard it
- 00:41:38was Patterson bellnap mhm that first got
- 00:41:41in touch with you about this
- 00:41:43yes Leonard told the lawyers how due
- 00:41:46diligence was
- 00:41:48compromised and you told the truth to
- 00:41:50them about what you had seen yes sir and
- 00:41:52you were a supervisor yes and you saw
- 00:41:54what your your Underwriters were doing
- 00:41:57yes yes and you saw the instructions yes
- 00:41:59coming down from the banks yes what was
- 00:42:02the highest defect rate you ever saw on
- 00:42:04a job oh gosh we had a job that was like
- 00:42:0750% but then the word came down
- 00:42:10everything got renegotiated and redone
- 00:42:14in other words you would come into a job
- 00:42:16you'd find 50% of the loans were
- 00:42:18defective but then then the standards
- 00:42:20would be loosened so that you could
- 00:42:22qualify those loans right um and mark
- 00:42:26them as not affected
- 00:42:29right isn't that fraudulent yes is this
- 00:42:33something you think is important for the
- 00:42:35government now to be prosecuting the
- 00:42:37kind of fraud that you saw yeah I mean
- 00:42:40it's if if it's still within the statut
- 00:42:43limitations the Department of Justice
- 00:42:45says that it's very hard to prosecute
- 00:42:48these kinds of crimes because you have
- 00:42:49to prove Criminal
- 00:42:52Intent yes sir how do you respond to
- 00:42:54that I think if I was sitting on the
- 00:42:57jury and I saw this information that I
- 00:42:59could pretty well assure myself that
- 00:43:01there had been Criminal Intent were you
- 00:43:04ever contacted by anybody in law
- 00:43:05enforcement or the justice department um
- 00:43:08not until just
- 00:43:11recently we are going to step up on the
- 00:43:14principle of one set of rules for
- 00:43:15everyone Equal justice under law finally
- 00:43:17in late 2012 the state of New York sued
- 00:43:21a Wall Street Bank for fraudulently
- 00:43:23misrepresenting the mortgages they
- 00:43:25packaged and sold very simply were
- 00:43:27investigating the misconduct of folks
- 00:43:29who caused the bubble the man who
- 00:43:31brought the suit was New York Attorney
- 00:43:33General Eric Schneiderman co-chair of a
- 00:43:36new state federal working group that
- 00:43:38included the Department of Justice the
- 00:43:40SEC and
- 00:43:42others Securities fraud against JP
- 00:43:45Morgan Chase as successors to Bear
- 00:43:47sternen company and EMC mortgage
- 00:43:49Corporation although the case centered
- 00:43:51on Bankers fraudulent and deceptive
- 00:43:54practices no individuals were named the
- 00:43:57suit was a civil not criminal case
- 00:44:01you've alleged in the case of be Sterns
- 00:44:03uh that they passed these things
- 00:44:05unknowingly intentionally knowing they
- 00:44:07were bad yes we think the facts as
- 00:44:10alleged in our complaints make it very
- 00:44:13hard to conclude that by 2006 and 2007
- 00:44:17the folks at these Banks did not know
- 00:44:19what was going on and that they were
- 00:44:21putting more and more bad loans into
- 00:44:22these Securities I guess I still don't
- 00:44:24understand if this was so clear and so
- 00:44:26int ention and so many commissions and
- 00:44:28hearings brought this forward why is
- 00:44:31this taking so long uh you know it's
- 00:44:34it's hard for me to address the
- 00:44:35specifics of what happened before I got
- 00:44:37here believe me we've moved as fast as
- 00:44:40we could uh you have to ask others about
- 00:44:43what happened before then what gave you
- 00:44:45the confidence that you would have
- 00:44:46results given that the government had
- 00:44:48gone for 3 years with really very little
- 00:44:51to show we were able to do some work uh
- 00:44:56more quickly by subpoena the records of
- 00:44:59private parties that had brought actions
- 00:45:01you were drawn to the um work of a
- 00:45:04private Law Firm Patterson bellnap oh
- 00:45:07Eric hos and his team of Attorneys at
- 00:45:10Patterson
- 00:45:12bellnap well
- 00:45:14we had when we started our investigation
- 00:45:18we took a look at uh what what other
- 00:45:21complaints had been filed and there were
- 00:45:23a whole series of private complaints
- 00:45:25that had been brought and and uh
- 00:45:27Patterson bnpp had brought a couple of
- 00:45:29those cases the complaint that was filed
- 00:45:32by New York attorney general
- 00:45:33Schneiderman was based largely on work
- 00:45:36done by private law firms work that goes
- 00:45:39back several years what does that tell
- 00:45:41us about the work that the justice
- 00:45:43department was doing all this time I do
- 00:45:45I think it's unusual for but but not
- 00:45:47unprecedented for the justice department
- 00:45:49to sort of follow on to the work of
- 00:45:52private litigants but it does raise the
- 00:45:55question you know why didn't the
- 00:45:57government develop it
- 00:45:58first that's a real question it is given
- 00:46:02all the pushing that you were doing
- 00:46:04Senator Kaufman was
- 00:46:06doing I think yeah I think it's an
- 00:46:08absolutely fair question to ask attorney
- 00:46:11David boy whose firm has represented
- 00:46:13both Banks and plaintiff's suing
- 00:46:16financial institutions has also reviewed
- 00:46:18Schneiderman's complaint Schneiderman is
- 00:46:21bringing a civil case alleging fraud yes
- 00:46:26could wouldn't it be filed as a criminal
- 00:46:29case I think that if you took every
- 00:46:31allegation that's made in uh
- 00:46:34Schneiderman's complaint and you
- 00:46:36accepted that as true and believe that
- 00:46:38you could prove that Beyond A Reasonable
- 00:46:40Doubt um that could have been filed as a
- 00:46:42criminal case was like $2.6 billion in
- 00:46:46one month filmmaker Nick fiszki was
- 00:46:49finally contacted by the justice
- 00:46:50department this past August about the
- 00:46:52whistleblowers he found for his film
- 00:46:54about Bear Sterns it had been more than
- 00:46:57a year since those lawyers at Patterson
- 00:46:59bellnap first called him I think you
- 00:47:02know the the ease with which I found
- 00:47:04these people and the things that they
- 00:47:05were telling me uh you know it it
- 00:47:07wouldn't have taken a lot of effort on
- 00:47:09the part of a regulatory entity in
- 00:47:11Washington to have done this I'm an
- 00:47:13independent filmmaker you know I'm not a
- 00:47:16financial regulator I'm not somebody
- 00:47:17who's running the SEC it's like you know
- 00:47:19what have you guys been doing what have
- 00:47:21you been looking at I mean I went out
- 00:47:23and found these people myself in you
- 00:47:24know in my spare time basically um you
- 00:47:27know and and it it was work but it
- 00:47:29wasn't that hard we have been able to
- 00:47:31contact a number of people who were uh
- 00:47:34inside the banks doing due diligence
- 00:47:37work as
- 00:47:38contractors who all told us that they
- 00:47:41were never contacted by the justice
- 00:47:43department well look I I can't talk in
- 00:47:46general about the nondescript Anonymous
- 00:47:49whistleblowers but here's what I can
- 00:47:51tell you whenever I personally have been
- 00:47:53in any public setting I've invited
- 00:47:56whistleblowers to to come forward but it
- 00:47:57shouldn't be so easy for
- 00:47:59journalists uh to go out and find
- 00:48:01whistleblowers that at this point four
- 00:48:03years after the the Meltdown that
- 00:48:06haven't been contacted by Justice Mar I
- 00:48:08don't accept for one moment that you all
- 00:48:10are finding whistleblowers that we're
- 00:48:12not what I do what let me continue what
- 00:48:15I do believe is that when we speak to
- 00:48:17the whistleblowers we have to make a
- 00:48:19determination whether what they say is
- 00:48:21really a criminal case we've talked to
- 00:48:23whistleblowers we've talked to people
- 00:48:25inside the banks who told me yes there
- 00:48:28was fraud that went
- 00:48:30on and we've talked to hundreds and
- 00:48:32hundreds and hundreds of people in these
- 00:48:34investigations and you're saying in not
- 00:48:37one of those cases having interviewed
- 00:48:40hundreds of people and looked at these
- 00:48:41things you can't find one person in this
- 00:48:43whole mess that you can establish Beyond
- 00:48:47a reasonable doubt that was selling
- 00:48:48these things knowingly intentionally and
- 00:48:51defrauded the investors we were not able
- 00:48:54to to reach a level
- 00:48:57of um that would
- 00:48:59sustain Beyond a reasonable doubt we
- 00:49:02were not able to show Criminal Intent
- 00:49:05sufficiently enough to obtain what we
- 00:49:07believe to obtain a conviction do you
- 00:49:09think the banks did all this
- 00:49:11unintentionally no I personally don't
- 00:49:14but in the end sure I was frustrated
- 00:49:17Lanny was frustrated Lanny was
- 00:49:20disappointed I'm sure he was and so was
- 00:49:22I but we knew professionally this was
- 00:49:24the decision that needed to be made
- 00:49:27the jobs of tens of thousands of
- 00:49:29employees can literally be at stake in
- 00:49:32September
- 00:49:332012 Lanny Brewer gave a speech
- 00:49:36explaining his reluctance to indict a
- 00:49:38major Bank those are the kinds of
- 00:49:39considerations in White Collar cases
- 00:49:42that literally keep me up at night you
- 00:49:45gave a speech before the New York Bar
- 00:49:47Association and in that speech you made
- 00:49:49a reference to losing sleep at night
- 00:49:51worrying about what a lawsuit might um
- 00:49:55result in uh at a large financial
- 00:49:58institution is that really the job of a
- 00:50:02prosecutor to worry uh about anything
- 00:50:05other than simply pursuing Justice well
- 00:50:08I think I am pursuing Justice and I
- 00:50:10think the the entire responsibility of
- 00:50:12the department is to pursue justice but
- 00:50:14in any given case I think I and
- 00:50:17prosecutors around the country being
- 00:50:19responsible should speak to Regulators
- 00:50:22should speak to experts because if I
- 00:50:24bring a case against Institution
- 00:50:27and as a result of bringing that case
- 00:50:30there's some huge economic effect If it
- 00:50:32creates a ripple effect so that suddenly
- 00:50:35counterparties and other financial
- 00:50:38institutions or other companies that had
- 00:50:40nothing to do with this or affected
- 00:50:42badly it's a factor we need to know and
- 00:50:45understand that was very disturbing to
- 00:50:47me very disturbing that was never raised
- 00:50:49at any time during any of our
- 00:50:51discussions that is not the job of a
- 00:50:52prosecutor to worry about the health of
- 00:50:54the banks in my opinion job of
- 00:50:56prosecutors to prosecute criminal
- 00:50:58Behavior it's not to lie awake at night
- 00:51:00and kind of decide the future of the
- 00:51:02banks so is Wall Street breathing a sigh
- 00:51:05of
- 00:51:06relief um I don't think people are
- 00:51:08breathing a sigh of relief given the the
- 00:51:11level of other litigation that's out
- 00:51:14there however I think they're probably a
- 00:51:17lot of
- 00:51:18individuals uh who have breathed size of
- 00:51:21relief over the last 2 or three
- 00:51:25years so far in civil proceedings the
- 00:51:29government has levied several billion
- 00:51:30dollars in penalties for misconduct in a
- 00:51:34crisis that's cost investors and
- 00:51:35homeowners many hundreds of billions of
- 00:51:40dollars but to date not one senior Wall
- 00:51:43Street executive has been held
- 00:51:45criminally liable by the Department of
- 00:51:47Justice for activities related to the
- 00:51:49financial crisis
- 00:51:58[Music]
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- 00:53:06[Music]
- financial crisis
- Wall Street
- Justice Department
- prosecution
- mortgage fraud
- Lanny Breuer
- Richard Bowen
- Senator Kaufman
- Bear Sterns
- Citigroup