Harvard Professor: REVEALING The 7 Big LIES About Exercise, Sleep, Running, Cancer & Sugar!!!
Ringkasan
TLDRI videoen diskuterer Daniel Lieberman, en Harvard-professor, hvordan mennesker har utviklet seg til å være fysisk aktive for å opprettholde helse og forebygge sykdommer. Han sier at 74% av sykdommene kan forebygges, og trening spiller en avgjørende rolle i dette. Lieberman avkrefter vanlige myter om trening, som at det er skadelig for knærne. Han fremhever at fysisk aktivitet ikke bare er viktig for fysisk helse, men også mental helse, og at det kan redusere risikoen for en rekke sykdommer som kreft. Han diskuterer også hvor viktig det er å opprettholde muskelmasse spesielt når man blir eldre. Lieberman utfordrer den moderne oppfatningen av pensjonering, og mener det er viktig å fortsette å være aktiv. Han foreslår at vår moderne samfunnskomfort kan bidra til uønsket inaktivitet, men at det er mulig å finne belønnende aspekter ved trening som gjør den mer motiverende. Han adresserer også hvordan evolusjonær medisin kan gi innsikt i hvordan vi kan forbedre vår livsstil i en moderne verden.
Takeaways
- 🏃♂️ Trening er avgjørende for forebygging av mange sykdommer.
- 🧠 Fysisk aktivitet er viktig både for fysisk og mental helse.
- 🦵 Myten om at løping er dårlig for knærne er feilaktig.
- 👵 Styrketrening er spesielt viktig når man blir eldre for å forhindre muskelstap.
- 📉 74% av sykdommer kan forebygges med rett livsstil.
- 🔄 'Bruk det eller mist det' gjelder for våre fysiske evner.
- 🎯 Trening trenger å være nødvendig eller givende for å være effektiv.
- ⏳ Vårt moderne pensjonssystem kan bidra til inaktivitet.
- 💡 Evolusjonær medisin gir innsikt i helseoptimalisering.
- 🏃♀️ 150 minutter ukentlig aktivitet reduserer brystkreftrisiko betydelig.
Garis waktu
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
Daniel Lieberman, forfatter og professor ved Harvard, snakker om hvordan mennesker utviklet seg for å være fysisk aktive. Bare 50% av amerikanerne trener, til tross for fordeler som reduksjon i kreft- og depresjonsrisiko. Systemet bruker lite på forebygging av sykdommer, som ofte kan forebygges.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Lieberman understreker viktigheten av styrketrening, spesielt med alderen, for å hindre muskeltap og opprettholde aktivitet. Ideen om pensjonering kan bidra til inaktivitet, noe som skader helsen.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Lieberman diskuterer myter innen trening og understreker at mange sykdommer kan forebygges. Han har studert urfolk globalt for å forstå hvordan menneskekroppen er ment å fungere.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
Lieberman oppdaget at begrepet 'trening' ikke finnes i noen kulturer fordi fysisk aktivitet var en del av dagliglivet. Det moderne fokuset på trening som isolert aktivitet er dermed kunstig.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Han diskuterer misforståelsene om søvn og sitting. Sitting er ikke nødvendigvis skadelig, men konstant sitting uten avbrudd kan være det. Trening avbryter inaktivitetens negative effekter.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
Moderne forestillinger om å sove 8 timer er feil. Mange kulturer sover mindre uten negative konsekvenser. 10,000 skritt om dagen er en markedsføringsstrategi, men noen fordeler finnes ved 7-8,000.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
Lieberman forplikter seg til styrketrening etter å ha forsket på aldring og muskeltap. Han påpeker hvor viktig fysisk aktivitet er for å forhindre raskere aldring.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Aldring handler om de biologiske endringene i kroppen. Fysisk aktivitet motvirker disse endringene ved å redusere aldringstegn som muskeltap. Vi har utviklet oss til å leve som aktive besteforeldre.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
Lieberman beskriver tapet av en partner eller pensjonering som faktorer som kan redusere fysisk aktivitet og dermed fysisk og mental helse, noe som gjør eldre mer sårbare for sykdommer.
- 00:45:00 - 00:50:00
Han fremmer ideen om at pensjonering er en moderne oppfinnelse og bevegelse som ikke eksisterte tidligere. Derfor kan det gi konsekvenser for helsen hvis man velger passivitet i pensjonstiden.
- 00:50:00 - 00:55:00
Redusert aktivitet etter pensjonering korrelerer med høyere dødsrater. Studien ved Harvard viste at eldre som fortsetter å trene, har lavere dødsrisiko, noe som understreker aktivitetens viktighet.
- 00:55:00 - 01:00:00
Samtalen skifter til hvordan miljøet påvirker genetikk og helse, og hvordan livsstilen kan styres for å minimere genetisk predisponering for sykdommer som diabetes og hjerteproblemer.
- 01:00:00 - 01:05:00
Trening og livsstilsvalg påvirker helse mer enn genetikk alene. Moderne komfort fører ofte til inaktivitet, og det krever innsats å motvirke dette. Lieberman diskuterer hvordan trening påvirker mental helse.
- 01:05:00 - 01:10:00
Lieberman understreker viktigheten av å bekjempe det fundamentale instinktet om å være inaktiv. Han gir eksempler fra studier som viser hvordan tilpasninger i livsstil kan oppnå helsefordeler.
- 01:10:00 - 01:15:00
Samfunnet fokuserer på behandling fremfor forebygging av sykdommer som kan unngås med enkle helsetiltak. Lieberman fremmer fysisk aktivitet som et middel for forebygging.
- 01:15:00 - 01:29:24
Forfedrenes kosthold og fysisk aktivitet reduserte forekomsten av noen moderne sykdommer som kreft og diabetes. Lieberman kobler inaktivitet og dårlig kosthold med høyere sykdomsforekomst i dag.
Peta Pikiran
Pertanyaan yang Sering Diajukan
Hva er en vanlig myte om trening?
En vanlig myte er at løping er dårlig for knærne, men forskning viser at det faktisk kan være forebyggende mot leddgikt.
Hvor mye fysisk aktivitet anbefales for å redusere risikoen for brystkreft?
Det anbefales 150 minutter med fysisk aktivitet i uken for kvinner for å redusere risikoen for brystkreft med 30 til 50%.
Hvorfor er det viktig å trene når man blir eldre?
Trening bidrar til å opprettholde muskelmasse og funksjonsevne, noe som er viktig for å forhindre aldringseffekter som sarkopeni.
Hva er en effektiv måte å motivere seg selv til å trene på?
Å ha en sosial komponent som en treningspartner eller gruppe kan gjøre trening mer motiverende og givende.
Hva sier Lieberman om søvn og hvor mye man trenger?
Lieberman sier at ideen om at man trenger åtte timers søvn er en myte; naturlige populasjoner sover ofte seks til syv timer per natt.
Hva er forholdet mellom trening og forebygging av sykdommer?
Trening kan vesentlig redusere risikoen for mange livsstilssykdommer som diabetes, hjerte- og karsykdommer og kreft.
Lihat lebih banyak ringkasan video
- 00:00:00a lot of people exercise because they
- 00:00:01believe it will help them to lose fat
- 00:00:03one of the biggest debates on the planet
- 00:00:05what advice have you got for me so this
- 00:00:07is not a well-known fact but Daniel
- 00:00:09liberman he studies and teaches how
- 00:00:11humans are supposed to live author and
- 00:00:13professor at Harvard University exercise
- 00:00:15disease sleep nutrition he has the
- 00:00:17answers on all of those things that most
- 00:00:19of us care about we evolve to be very
- 00:00:21Physically Active working in the fields
- 00:00:23hunting Gathering but now we live in a
- 00:00:25world where only 50% of Americans ever
- 00:00:27exercise and the rest of the world is
- 00:00:29headed our way cancers depression
- 00:00:31anxiety can attribute that to less
- 00:00:33physical activity in fact women who get
- 00:00:35150 minutes of physical activity a week
- 00:00:37have a 30 to 50% lower breast cancer
- 00:00:39risks and it's crazy right problem is
- 00:00:42that we spend 3% of our medical Budget
- 00:00:45on prevention and yet 75% of the time
- 00:00:47the disease is a preventable disease
- 00:00:49it's a completely backward stupid system
- 00:00:51when you started writing this book about
- 00:00:53exercise was there any instant changes
- 00:00:55that you implemented into your own life
- 00:00:56strength training the more I study the
- 00:00:58importance of doing weights especially
- 00:01:00as you age the more I start kicking
- 00:01:01myself for being lazy about that when
- 00:01:03people retire they become less active
- 00:01:05they tend to lose muscle and then that
- 00:01:07starts off a vicious cycle so would you
- 00:01:08say we shouldn't retire it's a very
- 00:01:10modern Western concept and yes we do pay
- 00:01:12a price for it so how does one go from
- 00:01:15having a negative opinion towards
- 00:01:16exercise to becoming an exerciser as an
- 00:01:19evolutionary biologist there are
- 00:01:20multiple ways of doing that so Daniel
- 00:01:23what are some of the biggest myths
- 00:01:25within exercise gosh there are so many
- 00:01:27one of the most common of course is
- 00:01:31Daniel Lieberman he's been to every
- 00:01:34corner of the world visiting native
- 00:01:36tribes to understand how humans are
- 00:01:38supposed to live and now he has the
- 00:01:41answers on all of those things that most
- 00:01:43of us care about on sleep nutrition
- 00:01:45exercise disease you know on disease he
- 00:01:47says that 74% of them can be prevented
- 00:01:51and he knows how to prevent them aging
- 00:01:54running are we born to run he tells me
- 00:01:56the story of a CEO that forces his
- 00:01:58employees to exercise excise and the
- 00:02:01impact that that's had on that company
- 00:02:03and he talks about how as humans we've
- 00:02:05evolved to either use it or lose it so
- 00:02:09maybe maybe retirement is a really bad
- 00:02:13idea for many of us one of the most
- 00:02:15thought-provoking pivotal conversations
- 00:02:17I've had on this show you're really
- 00:02:19going to take a lot from this one and I
- 00:02:22suspect after listening you'll probably
- 00:02:25start running too for exercise or from
- 00:02:28some of the decisions you've spent your
- 00:02:30life
- 00:02:30[Music]
- 00:02:37making Daniel your work is so so
- 00:02:40incredibly impressive reaches such an
- 00:02:43incredible depth Charters new territory
- 00:02:46and it's
- 00:02:48been an
- 00:02:51unbelievable clearly very passion driven
- 00:02:53career you had so my first question for
- 00:02:55you is why are you doing
- 00:02:57this um it's a good question um I um you
- 00:03:01know I started off being obsessed by
- 00:03:03human evolution I ever since I was a kid
- 00:03:04I was really interested in human
- 00:03:05evolution and I spent much of my early
- 00:03:07career working on skulls and heads and
- 00:03:10why they are the way they are and then I
- 00:03:12kind of got involved in public health
- 00:03:14and issues of health and disease kind of
- 00:03:16through the back door I sort of slowly
- 00:03:18shifted my research trajectory toward
- 00:03:20studying the evolution of running and
- 00:03:22then the evolution of physical activity
- 00:03:24and its relationship to health and
- 00:03:26disease and and I've become part of a
- 00:03:27movement that's often known as
- 00:03:29evolutionary medicine which is how to
- 00:03:31apply evolutionary theory and data to
- 00:03:33issues of health and disease
- 00:03:35evolutionary medicine I've never heard
- 00:03:37that term before but I love
- 00:03:40it where has your work on evolutionary
- 00:03:43medicine let's call it where has that
- 00:03:45taken you where where has it taken you
- 00:03:47to learn to research to study you know
- 00:03:50so much of what we think about in terms
- 00:03:52of health and disease comes from a tiny
- 00:03:54fragment of the world's population
- 00:03:56almost entirely like 90% of all the
- 00:03:59medical information comes from people
- 00:04:00from the United States Canada Europe and
- 00:04:04Australia so in order to to study how
- 00:04:06bodies really work and how our bodies
- 00:04:08evolv to be you have to leave uh places
- 00:04:11like Boston where I live and go to
- 00:04:13places like Africa or Mexico or wherever
- 00:04:15to look at at at other populations and
- 00:04:18look at how those populations are
- 00:04:19transitioning to to Lifestyles like mine
- 00:04:22and so uh we've been working in Kenya um
- 00:04:25for the last 15 years or so um I've
- 00:04:27traveled some other parts of the world
- 00:04:28as well India you know to kind of
- 00:04:30collect some data but uh but mostly in
- 00:04:33mostly in Africa after doing all of this
- 00:04:35work and after taking in all of this
- 00:04:37information how has it shifted your
- 00:04:39perspective on running exercise more
- 00:04:42broadly what have there been any sort of
- 00:04:44significant cognitive perception changes
- 00:04:47you
- 00:04:48know yeah um I actually had a I mean
- 00:04:51doesn't happen very often but I had kind
- 00:04:53of an epiphany moment um when I was
- 00:04:55working in Mexico we were collecting
- 00:04:57data on the Taro very also famous for
- 00:05:00their longdistance running and uh there
- 00:05:02was this elderly guy he's about 70
- 00:05:04something years old and he's famous for
- 00:05:06his distance running and I was asking
- 00:05:08him how he trained and I had asked this
- 00:05:09question of a whole bunch of other
- 00:05:10people and the translator I was working
- 00:05:12with was always struggling to ask that
- 00:05:14question because it turns out there's no
- 00:05:15word for training in in that language
- 00:05:18the concept of training doesn't exist so
- 00:05:20so so she was trying to explain to this
- 00:05:22guy what my question was um I could even
- 00:05:25without a translator I could figure out
- 00:05:26just from his tone of voice he was like
- 00:05:27why would anybody run if you didn't have
- 00:05:29to
- 00:05:30and I suddenly realized yeah of course
- 00:05:33exercise is a very weird thing right
- 00:05:35well if you're if you're a farmer and
- 00:05:36you're working super hard every day in
- 00:05:38the fields without machines and whatever
- 00:05:40or if you're a hunter gather and you're
- 00:05:41walking you know you know 5 to 10 miles
- 00:05:44a day and digging and throwing you know
- 00:05:46doing all kinds of hard work and you're
- 00:05:47barely getting enough enough food why on
- 00:05:50Earth would you go for a needless five
- 00:05:52mile run in the morning I it's crazy
- 00:05:54right the most viewed videos of yours
- 00:05:58and the most viewed moments in those
- 00:05:59videos
- 00:06:00address one question do you you have any
- 00:06:02idea what it might be no actually the
- 00:06:05biggest myths in exercise right I think
- 00:06:08you actually pointed out one there with
- 00:06:09the um Insight you got in Mexico the way
- 00:06:12we exercise going to gyms practicing is
- 00:06:15then natural or human but evidently
- 00:06:19it's it's a consequence of the privilege
- 00:06:21of our lives and the Comfort we have of
- 00:06:22not having to seek out our dinner every
- 00:06:25day what are some of the other biggest U
- 00:06:28myths with within exercise that um
- 00:06:30you've come across in writing this book
- 00:06:33gosh there are so many I had to actually
- 00:06:35limit limit it to 10 so I think um if
- 00:06:38you want to understand physical activity
- 00:06:39and exercise you also have to understand
- 00:06:41inactivity and I think one of the
- 00:06:43biggest myths out there is that you need
- 00:06:45eight hours of sleep at night um and
- 00:06:47that sitting is than new smoking you
- 00:06:48know that that basically and I if if you
- 00:06:50think about those two different myths U
- 00:06:52why is it that we're constantly told to
- 00:06:54sleep more and to sit less actually it's
- 00:06:57seems a little contradictory to me right
- 00:06:59and it turns out that um um that let's
- 00:07:02take sitting first so um you know there
- 00:07:05are all these uh you know the slogans
- 00:07:07like sitting as then you're smoking and
- 00:07:08it's really bad for you and you know
- 00:07:09every time you sit in your chair you
- 00:07:11lose two hours of your life and whatever
- 00:07:14uh turns out that um all animals sit
- 00:07:16right my dog sits um cows sit chickens
- 00:07:19sit every animal sits and hunter
- 00:07:21gatherers also sit in fact if you some
- 00:07:23of my students actually put sensors on
- 00:07:25Hunter gathers and when we're doing some
- 00:07:28research in Farmers as well well but
- 00:07:30they sit just as much as westerners um
- 00:07:32uh so sitting is there's nothing special
- 00:07:34about being uh about today's life it's
- 00:07:36sitting that it's that we sit all day
- 00:07:37long and don't do anything when we're
- 00:07:39not sitting right so if you and
- 00:07:41furthermore the the big distance
- 00:07:43difference is not so much how much we
- 00:07:44sit but how how we sit so turns out that
- 00:07:47people who um if you get up every once
- 00:07:50in a while right interrupted sitting is
- 00:07:53actually much more healthy than
- 00:07:55non-interrupted sitting for the same
- 00:07:57amount of time so in other words two
- 00:07:59people might in in the west people sit
- 00:08:01for an average about 40 minutes at a at
- 00:08:03about whereas hunter gatherers for
- 00:08:04example or farmers in Africa where we
- 00:08:06work get up every about 10 15 minutes
- 00:08:09and when you do that you actually it's
- 00:08:10like turning on the engine of your car
- 00:08:12you don't drive it around the block
- 00:08:13you're you're your your um your turning
- 00:08:15on all kinds of cellular mechanisms you
- 00:08:17lower blood sugar levels you all kinds
- 00:08:20of genes get activated and it turns out
- 00:08:22that that is by far the most important
- 00:08:24um uh way to way to sit so just get up
- 00:08:26every once in a while just pee
- 00:08:28frequently make a cup of tea you know
- 00:08:29pet your dog whatever thinking when I'm
- 00:08:31on planes and I've got a long flight I
- 00:08:33just I always sit in the aisle right so
- 00:08:35I can get up a lot
- 00:08:37always and um what about sleep then so
- 00:08:40sleep is another interesting one so this
- 00:08:42idea that you know um that you need
- 00:08:44eight hours of sleep has been around for
- 00:08:47a long time it's been around basically
- 00:08:48since the Industrial Revolution um but
- 00:08:50um if you actually so so colleagues in
- 00:08:53my field so in evolutionary medicine
- 00:08:55have put sensors on people who don't
- 00:08:57have have all the things that we're told
- 00:08:59have destroyed sleep so think about it
- 00:09:00we're told that TV and lights and and uh
- 00:09:03you know our phones and all these things
- 00:09:05are are preventing us from sleeping you
- 00:09:07know Edison destroyed sleep right uh so
- 00:09:11so when you put sensors on people who
- 00:09:13don't have any electricity and they
- 00:09:15don't have TVs and they don't have
- 00:09:16phones and they don't have have any of
- 00:09:19these gadgetry right electric they it
- 00:09:21turns out they sleep like six to seven
- 00:09:22hours a night um and um they they don't
- 00:09:26nap um so this idea that natural human
- 00:09:29being sleep 8 hours a night is Just is
- 00:09:31just nonsense it's just not true and
- 00:09:33furthermore when you start looking at
- 00:09:35the data 7 hours if you actually look at
- 00:09:37if you graph sort of how many hours a
- 00:09:39night you sleep on the x-axis and sort
- 00:09:42of uh you know some outcome like
- 00:09:44cardiovascular disease or just How
- 00:09:47likely you are to die it's kind of a
- 00:09:49U-shaped curve so people don't get much
- 00:09:51sleep are are in trouble um but the
- 00:09:54bottom of that curve is pretty much
- 00:09:56always about seven hours so people
- 00:09:58actually do better they sleep seven
- 00:10:00hours rather than eight hours and yet
- 00:10:01we're told that if you don't sleep eight
- 00:10:03hours there's something wrong right oh
- 00:10:05so you can
- 00:10:06oversleep well yeah I mean there's also
- 00:10:08some complexity to this too because of
- 00:10:10course people who are ill might be
- 00:10:11sleeping more and so there's some
- 00:10:12there's some biases that creep into the
- 00:10:14how you analyze the data but but
- 00:10:16basically it turns out that seven is for
- 00:10:18most people optimal but there's a lot of
- 00:10:20variation right every you know teenagers
- 00:10:22sleep more older people sleep less it's
- 00:10:24complicated one of the things popular in
- 00:10:26culture as well is this idea of doing
- 00:10:2810,000 steps a day yeah now that's fun
- 00:10:31you know that started because of a
- 00:10:32Japanese pomet podometer um so right
- 00:10:35before the the Olympics were in Tokyo in
- 00:10:37the in the 60s uh they had invented the
- 00:10:40pedometer and they were in sitting in a
- 00:10:41boardroom and they were discussing what
- 00:10:42to call the pedometer and they picked
- 00:10:45out of just out of the blue they picked
- 00:10:4610,000 steps because that's apparently
- 00:10:49an auspicious number and it sounded
- 00:10:51about right there was no science behind
- 00:10:53it interestingly it turns out it's
- 00:10:56pretty good um if you act if you look at
- 00:10:58at step per day and health
- 00:11:01outcomes um your average Hunter gather
- 00:11:04um walks between 10 to 18,000 steps
- 00:11:08depends on male female
- 00:11:10Etc and and if you look at steps per day
- 00:11:13and and outcomes um
- 00:11:15um about around seven to 8,000 steps the
- 00:11:18curve kind of bottoms out right there's
- 00:11:20doesn't seem to be a huge advantage to
- 00:11:22taking more than that per day in terms
- 00:11:24of you know large epidemiological
- 00:11:26studies so it turns out to be not that
- 00:11:28bad a goal but it's not a there's no
- 00:11:32it's not a perfect number like a lot of
- 00:11:33things right it's just a kind of a it's
- 00:11:35a reasonable it's a reasonable goal to
- 00:11:36shoot
- 00:11:37for when you um when you started writing
- 00:11:41this this book about exercise and
- 00:11:42running and all these subject matters
- 00:11:44was there any instant changes or any
- 00:11:47real lasting changes that you
- 00:11:49implemented into your own life from
- 00:11:50everything You' learned I I think about
- 00:11:52that all the time with this podcast I'll
- 00:11:53have a guest on I'll have these mini
- 00:11:55Eureka moments and then something will
- 00:11:56stick so I'm I'm wondering having
- 00:11:58studied all all of these people all
- 00:12:00around the world and looked at their
- 00:12:01bodies and exercise and physical
- 00:12:03exertion what have you taken into your
- 00:12:05own life that has
- 00:12:07stuck I would say that I've become more
- 00:12:09serious about doing some strength
- 00:12:10training you know i' I've always loved
- 00:12:13walking and running and you know
- 00:12:14endurance kinds of activities and I've
- 00:12:16always sort of hated doing weights you
- 00:12:18know I just don't like it and I'm I'm
- 00:12:21I'm a wimp you know I'm not a very well
- 00:12:23I'm I'm not a very strong person and you
- 00:12:25know people tend to do what they like
- 00:12:27right you get reinforcement from it and
- 00:12:29the more I study the importance of
- 00:12:31resistance training and the more I study
- 00:12:32the importance of doing weights
- 00:12:33especially as you age um The more I've
- 00:12:36uh the more I started kicking myself for
- 00:12:39for being uh being lazy about that so
- 00:12:41now I try to do good two strength
- 00:12:43workouts out of every week at least and
- 00:12:46uh and take it more seriously because
- 00:12:48especially as you age loss of muscle
- 00:12:51mass can be really debilitating there's
- 00:12:53a um the technical term for that is
- 00:12:56sarcopenia Saro is is the Greek word for
- 00:12:58muscle
- 00:12:59and pinea is loss so muscle loss so as
- 00:13:01people get older they tend to lose
- 00:13:03muscle and when you do that you become
- 00:13:05frail and you lose functional capacity
- 00:13:08and then that starts off a vicious cycle
- 00:13:10right once that happens then you're be
- 00:13:12less likely to be physically active and
- 00:13:14then of course when you're less
- 00:13:15Physically Active your muscles begin to
- 00:13:16waste away more and uh it's very
- 00:13:18debilitating so I think as we get older
- 00:13:21and I'm getting older it's more and more
- 00:13:23important you know to to kind of
- 00:13:25incorporate that so I think that's the
- 00:13:27one thing that I've I've taken to Heart
- 00:13:29yeah from what you said there it sounds
- 00:13:30like not doing resistance training not
- 00:13:33doing not lifting weights as you age
- 00:13:34almost accelerates Aging in any sort of
- 00:13:38superficial sense but also in a
- 00:13:40physiological sense you're you're
- 00:13:43increasing the speed of Aging yeah I'm
- 00:13:45not sure if I'd think about it that way
- 00:13:47but it I think I i' kind of reverse it
- 00:13:49slightly which is
- 00:13:51that you know aging is just the clock
- 00:13:54ticking on right there's nothing we can
- 00:13:56do about age but syence is the way the
- 00:13:58way bodies degrade as we get older and
- 00:14:01what physical activity does actually
- 00:14:03maybe the most important thing about
- 00:14:05physical activity is that it slows
- 00:14:07inessence especially for certain organs
- 00:14:09and systems and there are different
- 00:14:10kinds of physical activities so there's
- 00:14:11endurance physical activities you know
- 00:14:13like running walking Etc swimming and
- 00:14:15then strength or resistance physical
- 00:14:17activities and they have different kinds
- 00:14:19of ways in which they slow various
- 00:14:22properties of sence which we you know
- 00:14:24colloquially call aging and all of them
- 00:14:26are important and I think one of the
- 00:14:28things that's really interesting about
- 00:14:29humans in fact I think it maybe the most
- 00:14:31important thing about this book and you
- 00:14:33asked about myths earlier the most
- 00:14:34important myth I think by far is this
- 00:14:37idea that as you get older it's normal
- 00:14:39to be less active and that is just not
- 00:14:41true um we evolved to be grandparents we
- 00:14:45evolve to live one of the things that's
- 00:14:46most interesting about humans maybe is
- 00:14:48that we evolve to live about 20 years or
- 00:14:50so after we stop reproducing no other
- 00:14:52animal does that except ex said orcas
- 00:14:53maybe killer whales but with the
- 00:14:55exception of killer whales humans have
- 00:14:57this really weird life history we look
- 00:14:59we we we evolved to be grandparents but
- 00:15:01grandparents in the old days weren't you
- 00:15:03know retiring to Florida or I don't know
- 00:15:06where they but they do in England or
- 00:15:07whatever go to mayorca or whatever and
- 00:15:09you know kick up their heels and play
- 00:15:11golf or whatever with carts grandparents
- 00:15:13in the in the olden days right or in
- 00:15:15many cultures still today are working
- 00:15:17right they're working in the fields
- 00:15:18they're hunting they're Gathering
- 00:15:19they're getting food for their children
- 00:15:21and their grandchildren they're helping
- 00:15:22with child care and that physical
- 00:15:25activity is you know that's what their
- 00:15:27job is to be physically active but but
- 00:15:29in turn that physical activity turns on
- 00:15:32an amazing Suite of of of physiological
- 00:15:35processes that counter aging turns on
- 00:15:38repair and maintenance processes that
- 00:15:39not only keep our muscles strong but
- 00:15:41also keep our DNA from uring mutations
- 00:15:45keep our mitochondria numbers High keep
- 00:15:48um keep our the cells in our brain from
- 00:15:50accumulating Gunk uh so that prevents
- 00:15:52Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia
- 00:15:54I mean for for every system of the body
- 00:15:56physical activity has has benefits that
- 00:15:59slow the aging process and so when you
- 00:16:01stop doing it you acceler and that's the
- 00:16:04way in which you it P you perceive it as
- 00:16:06accelerating aging but really it's the
- 00:16:08absence of physical activity which lets
- 00:16:10aging run a muck in your first book in
- 00:16:122013 the story of the human body in
- 00:16:16chapter 12 you said um use this phrase
- 00:16:19use it or lose it basically we we
- 00:16:21evolved to use or lose our bodies and I
- 00:16:23was sat with um someone recently and I
- 00:16:25was trying to figure out why it appears
- 00:16:27that when people retire or the other
- 00:16:29instance I've seen is when their their
- 00:16:31elderly partner passes away it appears
- 00:16:34as if they don't live much longer yeah
- 00:16:37it's kind of like kind of folklore or
- 00:16:38something that once you
- 00:16:40retire your days are kind of numbered
- 00:16:43yeah yeah and I was trying to figure out
- 00:16:45the evolutionary reason for that but it
- 00:16:47sounds like it's kind of what you've
- 00:16:48explained there well I mean I think part
- 00:16:49of that is um is is depression right um
- 00:16:53uh when you lose a partner I mean grief
- 00:16:55and depression your cortisol levels go
- 00:16:57up your immune system goes down I mean
- 00:16:59you know it's it's it's really tough on
- 00:17:01your body I mean psychosocial stress
- 00:17:04plays a serious physiological toll but
- 00:17:07but also as you just pointed out when
- 00:17:10people retire they become less active
- 00:17:12and that that loss of activity has
- 00:17:15enormous effects on every aspect of our
- 00:17:17our of our of our body I mean the and
- 00:17:19our on our minds I mean physical
- 00:17:21activity is important not just for
- 00:17:22physical health but also vital for
- 00:17:24mental health and um I think a lot of
- 00:17:27the problems that U lot mental health
- 00:17:29issues we have today depression anxiety
- 00:17:32uh some of them you to some extent uh we
- 00:17:35can attribute that to loss to less
- 00:17:37physical activity and as people age
- 00:17:39becoming less Physically Active again
- 00:17:41makes them much more vulnerable to wide
- 00:17:43sued of
- 00:17:44diseases so would you say we shouldn't
- 00:17:47retire well or if you do retire I mean
- 00:17:50retiring is again another modern weird
- 00:17:52thing right nobody retired in the past I
- 00:17:54mean if you're a farmer it's like a
- 00:17:55subsistence farmer and name it any place
- 00:17:58right it's not like something you hit 65
- 00:17:59and all of a sudden you no longer have
- 00:18:01to work in the fields you work in the
- 00:18:02fields until you're you know until
- 00:18:03you're dead right and hunter gatherers
- 00:18:05don't retire they they continue to be
- 00:18:07physically active until until they die
- 00:18:09right or until they get too sick so it's
- 00:18:11a very modern Western concept um and um
- 00:18:14and yes we do pay a price for it but you
- 00:18:16of course can
- 00:18:17replace you know work that you do with
- 00:18:21with with challenging rewarding fun
- 00:18:23things to do the important thing is just
- 00:18:24not to not to stop being Physically
- 00:18:26Active one of my favorite studies ever
- 00:18:29published without a doubt um is is a is
- 00:18:31a study done by a guy named Ralph
- 00:18:33paffenbarger he realized that uh places
- 00:18:36like Harvard are fantastic for studying
- 00:18:38aging because um Harvard like other
- 00:18:42private universities never lets go of
- 00:18:44their alumni so until the day you die
- 00:18:47they're asking you for money on a
- 00:18:49regular basis and and so they're um um
- 00:18:53and so he he got the Alumni Association
- 00:18:55the Harvard development office to let
- 00:18:57him follow series of Harvard alumni from
- 00:19:00several years and can keep asking them
- 00:19:03in questions about their physical
- 00:19:04activity levels and also their diet and
- 00:19:06whether they smoked and stuff like that
- 00:19:07and then you track them for 25 30 years
- 00:19:10and what he found was that the alumni
- 00:19:12after you corrected for every Factor you
- 00:19:14could think of that as you as the alumni
- 00:19:16got older the effect of physical
- 00:19:18activity on their health outcomes was
- 00:19:20bigger and bigger so alumni who were in
- 00:19:23their 20s 30s and 40s for example who
- 00:19:25were were exercising here four or five
- 00:19:27times a week they had about 20% % lower
- 00:19:29death rates by the time that they got to
- 00:19:31their 60s and 70s the alumni who were
- 00:19:33exercising more had 50% lower death
- 00:19:36rates so as you get older so what and
- 00:19:39this has been replicated again many
- 00:19:40times but what he showed was that as you
- 00:19:42get older exercise becomes more not less
- 00:19:44important for maintaining your health
- 00:19:47been thinking a lot about this because I
- 00:19:48was I was saying to Jack my dad is
- 00:19:5160-ish but he's very very out of shape
- 00:19:54very very out of shape and I was in um I
- 00:19:56was in Indonesia and I was with my
- 00:19:58girlfriend and we went and we were going
- 00:20:00white water water rafting so we had to
- 00:20:02go down this really big H Hill with all
- 00:20:05these stairs it was like 300 Meers of
- 00:20:07stairs and I remember just thinking my
- 00:20:09my dad wouldn't be able to do this at
- 00:20:11his age at 60 and I want to be able to
- 00:20:13go down those stairs when I'm his age
- 00:20:15because at the bottom of there was a fun
- 00:20:17activity with someone I loved and to
- 00:20:19think that I'll get to a point in my
- 00:20:20life
- 00:20:21where not so far away in the grand
- 00:20:24scheme of things um where I won't be
- 00:20:26able to go up or down some stairs
- 00:20:27because I'm 60
- 00:20:29um because of my sort of genetic
- 00:20:31predisposition as I saw it was quite was
- 00:20:34quite sad but having heard you say that
- 00:20:35it's really feels much more like a
- 00:20:37choice than it is genetics yeah look we
- 00:20:40have this expression in my field which
- 00:20:42is that genes load the gun and
- 00:20:44environment pulls the trigger right some
- 00:20:46of us have genetic predispositions
- 00:20:48towards being you know more likely to
- 00:20:49get diabetes or heart disease or this or
- 00:20:51that or the other but our great great
- 00:20:54great grandparents in different
- 00:20:56environments weren't getting these
- 00:20:57diseases or they were get getting them
- 00:20:58at much much much lower frequencies it's
- 00:21:00not because they were dying earlier it's
- 00:21:02because these diseases were more less
- 00:21:03common so I think we too often blame our
- 00:21:07genes for many of these these these
- 00:21:09diseases um or many of these health
- 00:21:11problems um and it's I'm not in any way
- 00:21:14denying the role of genetics is but that
- 00:21:16environment is way more important and we
- 00:21:18have control over our environment to
- 00:21:19some extent and so if you want to reduce
- 00:21:22your risk of cardiovascular disease
- 00:21:23reduce your risk of diabetes reduce your
- 00:21:26risk of Alzheimer's dementia you
- 00:21:29exercise isn't a Magic Bullet it's not
- 00:21:31going to prevent you from getting those
- 00:21:32diseases completely but it lowers your
- 00:21:35risk quite quite quite substantially and
- 00:21:37we know why too I mean we have an
- 00:21:39immense amount of data on why that's the
- 00:21:42case um for every single one of these
- 00:21:44diseases we understand the mechanisms by
- 00:21:46which physical activity has uh you know
- 00:21:49important mechanistic effects on on
- 00:21:51these diseases so it's there's
- 00:21:53epidemiological data there's mechanistic
- 00:21:55data there's personal data the problem
- 00:21:58is that it's hard to do right it's it
- 00:22:00takes willpower to um overcome the the
- 00:22:05the the inertia of of of of doing what's
- 00:22:09completely normal which is wanting to
- 00:22:10take it easy right I was I was just you
- 00:22:12know I just flew yesterday from Denver
- 00:22:13to Boston and in the in the in the in
- 00:22:16the airport you know there are these
- 00:22:18escalators right next to the stairway
- 00:22:20right and and and and um the escalator
- 00:22:23and the stair it wasn't a huge stairway
- 00:22:25everybody's lining up to take the
- 00:22:26escalator and like the stairs are
- 00:22:28totally free so I being me I of course I
- 00:22:31can't I'm not allowed to take the
- 00:22:32escalator unless you know I have to
- 00:22:34right so I run up the stairs but you
- 00:22:36know it's but those people taking the
- 00:22:37escalator there's nothing wrong with
- 00:22:39them there they're not lazy it's just an
- 00:22:41instinct right it's an instinct to take
- 00:22:43to take it easy when you can right
- 00:22:45because and we now live in a world where
- 00:22:47everybody can do that right because we
- 00:22:48have escalators and and lifts and cars
- 00:22:51and shopping carts and all these
- 00:22:53wonderful devices to make our lives
- 00:22:55easier and now you have to overcome this
- 00:22:57fundamental Basic Instinct to take it
- 00:23:00easy in order to be physically active
- 00:23:02and that's basically what exercise is
- 00:23:04and so and and furthermore if you're out
- 00:23:06of if you're unfit and you're not really
- 00:23:08you know exercising isn't any fun right
- 00:23:10it's it's it's it's unpleasant you you
- 00:23:12know you sweat you get hot and you're
- 00:23:14get cranky and you know um and and it's
- 00:23:17not that rewarding uh until you get fit
- 00:23:20and so uh people hate it right um and U
- 00:23:24and then we blame them for being lazy
- 00:23:25but they're actually just being they're
- 00:23:27just being normal I think we need to
- 00:23:29have more compassion towards towards
- 00:23:31people who struggle to exercise quick
- 00:23:33one before we get back to this episode
- 00:23:35just give me 30 seconds of your time two
- 00:23:37things I wanted to say the first thing
- 00:23:38is a huge thank you for listening and
- 00:23:40tuning into the show week after week
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- 00:24:15things you love about the show thank you
- 00:24:18thank you so much back to the episode
- 00:24:20this Basic Instinct to take it easy are
- 00:24:22we evolved to be lazy take escalator
- 00:24:26Riders well I wouldn't use the word lazy
- 00:24:28but we are evolved to take it easy to to
- 00:24:31rest whenever possible right so we've
- 00:24:33now got ourselves into a bit of a
- 00:24:34comfort crisis here because everything
- 00:24:36has in our lives is optimizing us for
- 00:24:38convenience and ease right right and
- 00:24:40well it's also it's it sells right I
- 00:24:42mean Comfort I mean I mean who prefers
- 00:24:45to sit in economy as opposed to business
- 00:24:47class right nobody right Comfort is nice
- 00:24:50right who prefers shoes that are
- 00:24:52uncomfortable right we we we you know
- 00:24:54comfort's comfort's you know we love
- 00:24:57Comfort right but since when is Comfort
- 00:24:59necessarily better for you right I mean
- 00:25:00are comfortable shoes actually better
- 00:25:02for you than going Barefoot are the
- 00:25:03comfortable chairs better for you than
- 00:25:05or taking the the lift better for you
- 00:25:06than taking the stairs it in the short
- 00:25:07term or at least it appears to be today
- 00:25:10right yes because we often value the
- 00:25:11short-term benefit over the long-term
- 00:25:13cost right um that's hyperbolic
- 00:25:15discounting is the technical term for
- 00:25:17that but but um so we you know we live
- 00:25:19in a world where where we we we you know
- 00:25:22we pay extra for for Comfort or and
- 00:25:24we'll we'll prefer it but um but now we
- 00:25:27also live in a world where we have to
- 00:25:28now go out of our way to be physically
- 00:25:31active because it's no longer necessary
- 00:25:33and so again I go back to my original
- 00:25:34statement which is that people evolved
- 00:25:36to be physically active for two reasons
- 00:25:37and two reasons only but it's necessary
- 00:25:39rewarding when we don't make it
- 00:25:41necessary we need to figure out ways to
- 00:25:42make it rewarding and and that's hard
- 00:25:44it's very hard making it rewarding so
- 00:25:48one way that you might make something
- 00:25:50rewarding is by looking at the stick and
- 00:25:52then the other side is maybe the carrot
- 00:25:53but just looking at the stick then you
- 00:25:55were going through a series of diseases
- 00:25:56a second ago Alzheimer's um high blood
- 00:25:59pressure all of these kinds of things
- 00:26:00cardiovascular diseases I almost think
- 00:26:02we've come to assume that these are
- 00:26:05inevitabilities of Life yeah we'll get
- 00:26:07cancer one of us will get someone in
- 00:26:09here is going to get Alzheimer's and
- 00:26:11that's the way we live so we we're
- 00:26:12preparing to medicate when that day
- 00:26:14comes that I get God forbid diagnosed
- 00:26:17with something that's absolutely right
- 00:26:19in fact that's what medical students
- 00:26:20today are taught right if you go to
- 00:26:22medical school today you are taught that
- 00:26:24as people get older their blood pressure
- 00:26:25goes up I can tell you that's just not
- 00:26:27true it's in the western world where
- 00:26:29people are physically inactive and need
- 00:26:31crap diets that their blood pressure
- 00:26:32tends to go up but there are plenty of
- 00:26:34people I'm actually one of them right
- 00:26:36who don't have high blood pressure as
- 00:26:37they age and guess what's the best way
- 00:26:40to prevent getting high blood pressure
- 00:26:42as you age it's um you know it's not
- 00:26:43like a broken record but we have this
- 00:26:45idea that as you get older yes you're G
- 00:26:46to you're and we're lucky right you know
- 00:26:48because we don't die from small poox
- 00:26:50when we're 30 we're lucky to get cancer
- 00:26:52when we're 60 right what we've done is
- 00:26:54we've confused diseases that are more
- 00:26:56common with aging with age being a cause
- 00:26:59of those diseases in the first place and
- 00:27:01they're not inevitable inevitable
- 00:27:03diseases um and many of them are
- 00:27:05preventable and and the problem is that
- 00:27:08in our society we we don't value
- 00:27:11prevention very much we we may talk
- 00:27:13about it but we don't really put our
- 00:27:14money where our mouth is right in the US
- 00:27:16which is arguably one of the worst
- 00:27:18Health Care Systems is the worst Health
- 00:27:20Care System among the industrialized
- 00:27:21Western World we spend approximately 3%
- 00:27:26of our budget our IAL Budget on
- 00:27:29prevention And yet when people walk into
- 00:27:30a doctor's office 75% of the time the
- 00:27:33disease is according to the Center for
- 00:27:35Disease Control a preventable disease so
- 00:27:38we espcially spend nothing to prevent
- 00:27:41diseases that overwhelm our system and
- 00:27:42cause enormous amounts of misery it's a
- 00:27:45completely backward stupid system and so
- 00:27:48and and the good news is it's not that
- 00:27:49hard to prevent a lot of these things um
- 00:27:52um it takes willpower and um takes
- 00:27:54education and it takes access to to good
- 00:27:56quality food and what whatever um but um
- 00:28:00so in the one hand it's very depressing
- 00:28:02on the other hand The Optimist in me
- 00:28:03says you know we really can do something
- 00:28:05and people even if without even if
- 00:28:07they're not wealthy or whatever I mean
- 00:28:09there are simple things that everybody
- 00:28:10can do to improve their health outcomes
- 00:28:13these diseases we we encounter today as
- 00:28:15we age and just generally in our society
- 00:28:17when you look at hunter gatherer hunter
- 00:28:19gatherer communities or you look at
- 00:28:20certain tribes around the world maybe in
- 00:28:22Africa do you see the same
- 00:28:26um the same types of diseases in the
- 00:28:29same um occurrence level of occurrence
- 00:28:33or is there some diseases which just
- 00:28:34don't like I'm wondering if like if
- 00:28:37because you know cancer seems to be so
- 00:28:38popular for ex as as disease and
- 00:28:39Alzheimer's and these kinds of things so
- 00:28:41I Wonder has that always been the case
- 00:28:43throughout human history and is that the
- 00:28:45case in other parts of the world that is
- 00:28:47such a good question so first of all
- 00:28:49some of these some of these diseases are
- 00:28:50really hard to to measure in non-western
- 00:28:53populations because we don't have the
- 00:28:55diagnostic tools so nobody really knows
- 00:28:57how common cancer is in in in a lot of
- 00:29:00parts of the world right there's just
- 00:29:02the data don't exist that said when you
- 00:29:04make estimates and you do look at the
- 00:29:06studies that are out there and even if
- 00:29:07you look in in in historical records in
- 00:29:09in places like Europe where people have
- 00:29:11been keeping track of this there is no
- 00:29:13question that cancer rates have been
- 00:29:14rising and that cancer rates are much
- 00:29:16much more common in the western world
- 00:29:17there's a strong association between
- 00:29:19Cancer and wealth and that's because
- 00:29:22cancer is basically a disease of energy
- 00:29:24right when your cells because cancer is
- 00:29:26basically natural selection gone arai in
- 00:29:28the body it's when cells start competing
- 00:29:30with each other u in ways that that
- 00:29:33cause basically and start you know going
- 00:29:36you know multiplying and dividing out of
- 00:29:39control right it's a kind of natural
- 00:29:40selection and what is it that those
- 00:29:42cells are doing they're competing for
- 00:29:44energy and when you have more energy
- 00:29:46like when you're eating more and being
- 00:29:47less Physically Active you can you
- 00:29:50basically feed those cells so um so can
- 00:29:53a high levels of insulin insulin is
- 00:29:55highly uh related to to cancer High
- 00:29:58insulin levels are are carcinogenic um
- 00:30:02high levels of of body of of energy you
- 00:30:05cause women for example to increase the
- 00:30:08the amount of estrogen and progesterone
- 00:30:10that they produce men produce more
- 00:30:12testosterone these are and these are
- 00:30:14these are hormones that um of course are
- 00:30:17for good for reproduction but they're
- 00:30:19but again we EV we evolve to be to have
- 00:30:21as many babies as possible Right but
- 00:30:23that doesn't mean that translates into
- 00:30:25Health right so more estrogen more
- 00:30:27progesterone increases risks of say
- 00:30:29breast cancer or testosterone increases
- 00:30:31the risk of prostate cancer so if you
- 00:30:33look at most diseases right people are
- 00:30:35more physically active they have lower
- 00:30:36levels of estrogen progesterone
- 00:30:38testosterone they have lower levels of
- 00:30:40insulin they have lower levels of blood
- 00:30:42sugar all of these depressed cancer
- 00:30:44rates and on average people who are
- 00:30:46Physically Active have much lower rates
- 00:30:48of almost every single kind of cancer
- 00:30:50that you can think of women who walk 150
- 00:30:53you know get 150 minutes of physical
- 00:30:55activity a week have on average
- 00:30:58about 30 to 50% lower lifetime breast
- 00:31:01cancer risks than people who are
- 00:31:03sedentary and yet for some reason this
- 00:31:05is not a wellknown fact um and we we
- 00:31:08have we have epidemiological data we
- 00:31:10have mechanistic data we understand how
- 00:31:12and why it works and yet and yet how
- 00:31:14often do you hear about cancer
- 00:31:17prevention we talk about treating cancer
- 00:31:19which is all important if I get cancer I
- 00:31:20would like it treated too thank you very
- 00:31:22much but why don't we spend more energy
- 00:31:25and activity and and and have more
- 00:31:27education about how to prevent cancers
- 00:31:28in the first
- 00:31:30place physical act I've mean I've never
- 00:31:33heard that before so that's that's
- 00:31:34really helped me um to add more value to
- 00:31:38exercise in my mind you're talking there
- 00:31:40about insulin levels and how that has
- 00:31:42there's a link between your insulin
- 00:31:45levels and your chances of getting
- 00:31:47cancer
- 00:31:50sugar glucose
- 00:31:53inflammation
- 00:31:55bad yeah I mean I mean look if you want
- 00:31:57to if you want take like the three
- 00:31:59things you should you know if you really
- 00:32:00care about your health don't smoke right
- 00:32:01that's kind of obvious I think everybody
- 00:32:03knows that get some exercise I don't
- 00:32:05think you need me to tell you that right
- 00:32:08and and cut down on sugar on foods that
- 00:32:10are high in sugar and low in fiber right
- 00:32:13that you know what we call high glycemic
- 00:32:14foods those are the foods that elevate
- 00:32:17your your your your blood glucose levels
- 00:32:19your your insulin levels shoot up and
- 00:32:21Insulin insulin the basic function of
- 00:32:24insulin is is it's what we call an an
- 00:32:26anabolic hormone it's its job is to is
- 00:32:30to store energy glucose glucose but also
- 00:32:34fat okay all right okay so in insul what
- 00:32:37insulin does is to get energy into cells
- 00:32:40so it's like a taxi it's like an Uber
- 00:32:43it's like a taxi yeah well I mean it
- 00:32:45it's not a TA it's like a it's telling
- 00:32:47other cells to do that so insulin for
- 00:32:49example binds to other cells that are
- 00:32:51the actual taxis so it's like it's like
- 00:32:53calling the Uber I would say maybe right
- 00:32:55um and um and insulin is is you know
- 00:32:58it's the fund so when you when you eat
- 00:33:00food insulin levels go up because its
- 00:33:02job is to store that energy and when you
- 00:33:03exercise insulin levels go down because
- 00:33:05because you want to then reuse that
- 00:33:07energy right so so uh so when cells get
- 00:33:12more energy they're more prone to going
- 00:33:14out of control basically and and and and
- 00:33:17inflammation is caused by basically by
- 00:33:21getting you store so much fat in your
- 00:33:23cells that those fat cells start to
- 00:33:25swell and when those start to swell like
- 00:33:27anything right they start to rupture
- 00:33:29they get damaged and that damage
- 00:33:31attracts the immune system and the
- 00:33:33immune system gets turned on and that
- 00:33:34causes inflammation so so too much osity
- 00:33:37too much fat you know over swollen fat
- 00:33:40cells is the is a primary cause of
- 00:33:43systemic inflammation and inflammation
- 00:33:45is like the slow burn in our bodies that
- 00:33:47causes widespread damage to pretty much
- 00:33:50everything you can think of and it turns
- 00:33:52out that so the two ways to deal with
- 00:33:54inflammation are one to prevent it right
- 00:33:56so don't eat foods that are
- 00:33:57pro-inflammatory
- 00:33:59like anything with a lot of sugar
- 00:34:01basically right that I mean that you
- 00:34:02know the sugar is highly
- 00:34:04inflammatory um or trans fats are highly
- 00:34:08inflammatory but also turns out many
- 00:34:10people don't know this but you also want
- 00:34:12to turn down your immune system right
- 00:34:14you want to turn the dial down and I
- 00:34:17don't know just give you one guess what
- 00:34:19it is that does that exercise exercise
- 00:34:21and the and and and the way it does that
- 00:34:24is that when you when you're physically
- 00:34:25active you're using your muscle cells it
- 00:34:27turns that muscles are also an endocrine
- 00:34:29organ your muscles are producing a
- 00:34:32molecule called interlukin 6 il6 that in
- 00:34:35low levels is pro-inflammatory but at
- 00:34:37high levels it's actually
- 00:34:39anti-inflammatory it turns down
- 00:34:41inflammation and your muscles because a
- 00:34:43third of your body there's muscle right
- 00:34:45when you go for a run or or swim or bike
- 00:34:47ride or whatever you're producing a ton
- 00:34:50of this stuff and it turns down levels
- 00:34:52of inflammation so people are Physically
- 00:34:53Active even if they're overweight are
- 00:34:56actually controlling and regulating
- 00:34:57their inflammation and we never evolved
- 00:34:59to regulate inflammation because in this
- 00:35:02way because we never evolved to be
- 00:35:04physically inactive until recently
- 00:35:05nobody was physically inactive until
- 00:35:07they unless they were dying right so so
- 00:35:09we never evolved an alternative
- 00:35:11mechanism to regulate inflammation other
- 00:35:13than physical activity and we didn't
- 00:35:16live in a world with this much sugar we
- 00:35:18never lived in a I mean it's astonishing
- 00:35:20you you pay more money for Foods today
- 00:35:24that have less sugar added right I mean
- 00:35:26that's just ridiculous right cuz it's so
- 00:35:28cheap and sugar is you know we lost
- 00:35:30everybody loves sugar I mean I've um
- 00:35:32I've gone hunting with um Hunter gathers
- 00:35:34you know you know H gathers and um and I
- 00:35:38can tell you that they're honey addicts
- 00:35:39right I mean I've gone out with these
- 00:35:41guys and they go from you know if they
- 00:35:43if they fail on their hunt like by 10 or
- 00:35:4511 if you haven't killed an animal you
- 00:35:46know that's it for the day right and
- 00:35:48then it come it turns from being a
- 00:35:50Hunting Expedition to a honey collecting
- 00:35:53Expedition and they'll go from hive to
- 00:35:55Hive to Hive get smoked burn out the
- 00:35:58bees and just Gorge themselves on more
- 00:36:00honey than I could possibly imagine to
- 00:36:02eat except these are a lean Physically
- 00:36:05Active Hunter gathers and they they
- 00:36:07handle it just fine um but it's you know
- 00:36:10it's the it's the Paleolithic equivalent
- 00:36:11of you know eating Mars Bars all day
- 00:36:13long but they've been out doing physical
- 00:36:15activity for how long that yeah I mean
- 00:36:17the average day is about 15 kilometers
- 00:36:20of of walking with some running yeah so
- 00:36:23so so they're you know they can they can
- 00:36:25they can cope with it how many hours is
- 00:36:26that oh that's two to three hours
- 00:36:29probably okay so from that I have gared
- 00:36:32that I need to do 15 kilometers a day
- 00:36:34for two or three hours every day well
- 00:36:37remember it's not a prescription right
- 00:36:39so that's a kind of like the Paleo
- 00:36:41fantasy sort of naturalistic fantasy
- 00:36:43that if you live like a hunter gather
- 00:36:45somehow your your your world will be
- 00:36:47perfect right that's basically what the
- 00:36:49paleo diet is sort of all about right
- 00:36:51and that's not true either yes you need
- 00:36:54to be physically active but it turns out
- 00:36:56that certain amount
- 00:36:58you know if you're any any physical
- 00:37:00activity is better than none right and
- 00:37:02if you look at the kind of any curve of
- 00:37:04any output any health health health
- 00:37:06health outcome like how many years you
- 00:37:09live or whether you're likely to get
- 00:37:10cancer or heart disease or whatever you
- 00:37:12know any little physical activity your
- 00:37:14curve starts to fall quickly right your
- 00:37:16your likelihood of cardiovascular
- 00:37:18disease starts just you know a few
- 00:37:20minutes a day of exercise has big
- 00:37:22benefits but eventually that curve
- 00:37:23flattens out right and it flattens out
- 00:37:25well before the hunter gatherer level so
- 00:37:27you don't need to be a hun gatherer in
- 00:37:28terms of physical activity to get the
- 00:37:30benefits this is a I've asked a few
- 00:37:32people this question I don't think
- 00:37:33everyone's anyone's really answered it
- 00:37:35um but I suspect you might be able to if
- 00:37:38if you were responsible for redesigning
- 00:37:41the nature of our modern world to make
- 00:37:45it more matched and less mismatched what
- 00:37:48are some of the first things you would
- 00:37:49do to help Society benefit in terms of
- 00:37:52our happiness and our
- 00:37:55health I I think about this all the time
- 00:37:58because we we don't seem to be turning
- 00:38:00around we seem to be hurtling in a
- 00:38:02direction kind of unconsciously towards
- 00:38:04artificial intelligence and moving less
- 00:38:06and being more s sedentary and taking
- 00:38:08pills more to fix everything lonelier
- 00:38:11than ever before and I how you know if
- 00:38:14we were to redesign it blank canvas
- 00:38:17piece of
- 00:38:19paper that's a tough question because
- 00:38:22um we've essentially given ourselves
- 00:38:26what we want
- 00:38:27right um I can go into a supermarket and
- 00:38:31I mean I can do something that's
- 00:38:33unimaginable until recently I can have I
- 00:38:35I can have basically anything I I can
- 00:38:36eat better than the king of France you
- 00:38:38know a few Generations ago I can I I can
- 00:38:41I me here like in New York there's like
- 00:38:43every Cuisine possibly available to me I
- 00:38:46I don't ever have to climb the stairs I
- 00:38:48can take elevators I mean we've we've
- 00:38:50we've we've made our world so convenient
- 00:38:53and comfortable um and yet there are
- 00:38:55consequences to the many of the things
- 00:38:58that we crave and want
- 00:39:00so in an Ideal World you don't want to
- 00:39:03you don't want to REM I mean you have to
- 00:39:06you have to honor and respect people's
- 00:39:10um um desires right I'm not a I don't
- 00:39:13believe in in in preventing people from
- 00:39:17taking the elevator right or or forcing
- 00:39:19them to you know eat eat whole grain
- 00:39:23bread as opposed to white bread right
- 00:39:25but if you banned white bread and you
- 00:39:26banned elevators other than for those
- 00:39:27people that need it for accessibility
- 00:39:29reasons Etc they would do better over
- 00:39:32the long term they' be healthier and
- 00:39:33happier they would right so the it's
- 00:39:36really a balancing act between between
- 00:39:40um um respecting people's Liberties and
- 00:39:44choices and educating them and helping
- 00:39:46them so in my world I would I would do
- 00:39:50more to nudge people right um I would
- 00:39:53instead of banning sugar I would tax it
- 00:39:55more um instead of
- 00:39:58um uh
- 00:40:00pushing uh all kinds of foods on people
- 00:40:04I would push I mean why don't we why
- 00:40:06don't we advertise healthy foods the way
- 00:40:09we advertise unhealthy Foods right I
- 00:40:12mean when's the last time you saw an ad
- 00:40:14for just how amazingly healthy asparagus
- 00:40:17was right but that doesn't get the part
- 00:40:19of my
- 00:40:20brain going does it no it doesn't but um
- 00:40:23but we could do more to to nudge and
- 00:40:26encourage and help people right you
- 00:40:27don't have to like ban sugar and cookies
- 00:40:30right the way some people but but but
- 00:40:32simply promote um and help people help
- 00:40:36themselves right most people want to eat
- 00:40:37healthier food most people want to
- 00:40:39exercise um but they live in a world
- 00:40:41where it's hard to do it and they live
- 00:40:42in a world where um there are very few
- 00:40:45incentives I would make it such that
- 00:40:47healthy food would be as as inexpensive
- 00:40:50as as unhealthy food and make sure that
- 00:40:53that people had incentives and and make
- 00:40:56it also fun to be physically active like
- 00:40:58for example um every I mean who doesn't
- 00:41:02like to dance right every culture in the
- 00:41:03world has dancing right dancing is a
- 00:41:05form of of of physical activity it's
- 00:41:08social it's fun it's engaging why don't
- 00:41:11we have uh why doesn't every every town
- 00:41:13in America sponsor dancing right um you
- 00:41:18know it would probably do an enormous
- 00:41:19amount for people's physical health and
- 00:41:21their mental health I mean we could do
- 00:41:22that I mean that's just one example
- 00:41:24right so I would I would um I would I
- 00:41:26would and and why is it that in medical
- 00:41:29schools doctors don't learn about they
- 00:41:31don't they don't study nutrition and
- 00:41:32they don't don't study exercise and they
- 00:41:34don't learn um because that's because in
- 00:41:36our medical system is designed to treat
- 00:41:39people after they get sick rather than
- 00:41:40prevent people from getting sick so so
- 00:41:42we need to you know reverse how we fund
- 00:41:46health care right and so schools of
- 00:41:48Public Health are these kind of little
- 00:41:50marginalized places where you know where
- 00:41:52where great ideas go to die right and
- 00:41:54and medical schools where all the money
- 00:41:55is right and doctors aren't taught to to
- 00:41:59deal to to to I mean there are entire
- 00:42:01fields of medicine that don't have the
- 00:42:03word preventive associated with them I
- 00:42:04mean you ever heard of preventive
- 00:42:06Orthodontics or preventive you know
- 00:42:08Optometry or prevent you know preventive
- 00:42:11Orthopedics I mean it just doesn't exist
- 00:42:12right so we we could do a lot more um
- 00:42:16and and have enormous benefits chapter
- 00:42:1811 of this book you talk about someone
- 00:42:20who has taken their own approach to
- 00:42:22getting people moving and exercising um
- 00:42:25in their own business the Bjorn Borg
- 00:42:27company I love that bjor Borg company
- 00:42:30can you tell me about that that company
- 00:42:32yeah so I was um so I was I was curious
- 00:42:36about this idea of how to get how to
- 00:42:37help people be more physically active
- 00:42:38right and again you know my my
- 00:42:42fundamental hypothesis is that we evoled
- 00:42:43to be physically active either when it's
- 00:42:45necessary or rewarding and so I was
- 00:42:48curious if there was any any companies
- 00:42:50in the world that have made physical
- 00:42:52activity necessary in other words what
- 00:42:54if we forc people to be physically
- 00:42:56active and I found one so far I think
- 00:42:57there's only one company in the world
- 00:42:59that I know of maybe there's some others
- 00:43:00but this is the only one I've ever found
- 00:43:02so far and it's the bjorg sports company
- 00:43:04in Sweden where the CEO of the company
- 00:43:07is this crazy sort of exercise addict
- 00:43:09and he um he requires every member of
- 00:43:13the company to to exercise they have
- 00:43:15sports hour every Friday at 11 o'clock
- 00:43:18so I actually um when I when I was
- 00:43:20searching around and I was thinking you
- 00:43:21know right working on the book I
- 00:43:22actually you I got I found an article
- 00:43:25about them and I you know I clicked on
- 00:43:27the on the company website and you know
- 00:43:29how most companies have a little contact
- 00:43:31us M so I I clicked on the contact us
- 00:43:34and I wrote a little note saying you
- 00:43:35know dear Borg company I'm a I'm a
- 00:43:37researcher an evolutionary biologist I'm
- 00:43:39interested in exercise and I'm and I'm
- 00:43:40fascinated by how your company um
- 00:43:43requires people to exercise could I
- 00:43:44learn more and the next morning there
- 00:43:46was a an email from the CEO of the
- 00:43:48company saying why don't you come and
- 00:43:50visit us so so I hopped on a plane few a
- 00:43:54few months later went to Sweden and they
- 00:43:55they let me he was so nice you just let
- 00:43:58me just go anywhere in the company and I
- 00:44:00I went to sports hour and I I talked to
- 00:44:02to employees throughout the company and
- 00:44:04it was fascinating I mean um a lot of
- 00:44:06the employees of the company um first of
- 00:44:08all a bunch of people apparently left
- 00:44:11the company when he took over a CEO and
- 00:44:13required this but it doesn't matter who
- 00:44:14you are you could be working in the mail
- 00:44:16room you could be the CEO you could be a
- 00:44:17visiting board member whoever you are if
- 00:44:19you're there on Friday you have to go
- 00:44:21exercise with them and they have this
- 00:44:22pretty serious kind of exercise thing
- 00:44:24and apparently some people quit um but
- 00:44:27but um but but prettyy much everybody
- 00:44:29else said you know it's actually a
- 00:44:31pretty damn good thing do you agree with
- 00:44:33that approach well yes and no um every
- 00:44:36University in the world used to require
- 00:44:38and every school right supposedly
- 00:44:40requires exercise right I'm sure you had
- 00:44:42physical ex you know physical some kind
- 00:44:44of phed required in your
- 00:44:46school those standards are slipping
- 00:44:49around the world and more and more kids
- 00:44:51are doing less and less in school uh
- 00:44:54universities were are no exception it
- 00:44:55used to be that all universi ities
- 00:44:57required some degree of physical
- 00:44:59education mine was no exception in fact
- 00:45:01Harvard was a leader in that back in the
- 00:45:03you know hund and something years
- 00:45:05ago and over the since basically the
- 00:45:081970s that's basically disappeared
- 00:45:11although most students if you ask them
- 00:45:12they think yeah that's actually a pretty
- 00:45:13good idea so I don't know maybe we can
- 00:45:17bring back exercise as a and and the
- 00:45:20thing is that if you get used to it
- 00:45:22right when you're young you're more
- 00:45:23likely to do it when you're older right
- 00:45:25because you set those are the that's the
- 00:45:27age in which your habits become become
- 00:45:30well your habits become your habits
- 00:45:32right and so there's a certain age where
- 00:45:35where if you can keep keep you know get
- 00:45:38that making it make it a habit you're
- 00:45:40probably more likely to continue doing
- 00:45:42it for the rest of your life we kind of
- 00:45:43see it as overreach don't we I was
- 00:45:45thinking about if I was to announce one
- 00:45:47of my companies that everyone is now
- 00:45:49required to exercise it would seem like
- 00:45:51like tremendous overreach if I announce
- 00:45:53that everyone is required to read a
- 00:45:55certain book they' do it and it' be fine
- 00:45:57and it might be seen as a positive thing
- 00:45:58right it might be a representation of
- 00:46:00our values that we are Learners and
- 00:46:01we're innovators and we keep you know
- 00:46:03nourishing our brains but you turned
- 00:46:04around to your team and said listen
- 00:46:05you're all required to you're all
- 00:46:07required to go for a run every day or
- 00:46:09something people would it just feels
- 00:46:12personal yeah like that's not the
- 00:46:13responsibility of an organization to
- 00:46:15tell me to go exercise but we have we
- 00:46:19have company you know Retreats I mean we
- 00:46:21do all kinds of stuff where people are
- 00:46:22required to do it so I don't know I
- 00:46:24challenge you try it what we do and what
- 00:46:26we've always done we even do it with
- 00:46:27this team the D team is about 30 people
- 00:46:29so we have a fitness channel in the
- 00:46:32company um slack channel the
- 00:46:34communication channel that we use and in
- 00:46:36that channel um and we did this at my
- 00:46:38previous company as well where we would
- 00:46:41enable and facilitate so we we someone
- 00:46:46started a women's football team so we
- 00:46:47enabled it and promoted it someone
- 00:46:49started a men's football team so we
- 00:46:50enabled it and promoted it and this this
- 00:46:52also applies to non-physical sort of
- 00:46:54exercise related clubs like someone
- 00:46:56starts the reason reading club and we
- 00:46:57enabled it and promoted it um and we
- 00:47:00also paid for it if they need to if they
- 00:47:02need new kits for example when the
- 00:47:03women's football team needed wanted to
- 00:47:04have their own uniforms we paid for it
- 00:47:06because we saw a huge value in terms of
- 00:47:09Staff retention connection community and
- 00:47:11all those things that actually lead up
- 00:47:12to staff retention if we could have more
- 00:47:15Social Clubs outside of the office you
- 00:47:18know if you're thinking about leaving a
- 00:47:19job there's a number of things you weigh
- 00:47:21up the pay the job whatever but you also
- 00:47:23weigh up how the community like the
- 00:47:26group of people I love and how much they
- 00:47:27bring to my life and I actually think in
- 00:47:29the remote Working World um it's
- 00:47:31something that CEOs and leaders have
- 00:47:33really not paid enough attention to that
- 00:47:35if they really want to retain their team
- 00:47:37members they should have them together
- 00:47:38as much as they can even outside of the
- 00:47:40office bonding in a world where screens
- 00:47:42are on the rise and pubs are on the
- 00:47:44decline and social activities and
- 00:47:46churches are on the decline there's less
- 00:47:47sort of uh institutions that connect us
- 00:47:50socially work has a big opportunity to
- 00:47:52do to do that so one of my big things
- 00:47:54always in my head is like how can I get
- 00:47:56the team members of my companies to hang
- 00:47:58out more and and a multiplier to that is
- 00:48:00how can I get them to hang out more and
- 00:48:02move their bodies more because then
- 00:48:03they'll feel better right well well
- 00:48:05think about it it's play right play yeah
- 00:48:07exactly and I mean and play is what is
- 00:48:11another thing we evolve to do right what
- 00:48:13kids play and we're one of the few
- 00:48:15species that plays as adults right and
- 00:48:17what is play play is a way in which you
- 00:48:19you you learn cooperation you you you
- 00:48:22you build community um but you also move
- 00:48:24your body right in the first chapter of
- 00:48:26your book you say that you went to visit
- 00:48:27the Native American tribe and I'm going
- 00:48:29to try and pronounce this the
- 00:48:31taraa Tarahumara and they're famous for
- 00:48:35their long running yes what did you
- 00:48:37learn about running from them well it's
- 00:48:39you know they have been famous for well
- 00:48:41over 100 years I mean many uh people
- 00:48:44have gone to study the taramara and have
- 00:48:46commented on their amazing ability to
- 00:48:48run but what I I really learned from
- 00:48:51them is that um uh for them physical
- 00:48:54activity is spiritual um you know
- 00:48:56there's this book Born to Run that uh
- 00:48:58that describes their their running and
- 00:49:01calls them a hidden tribe of super
- 00:49:03superathletes they're not hidden and
- 00:49:05they're not super athletes um and um and
- 00:49:08the one thing that the book missed was
- 00:49:10that the the main impetus for the for
- 00:49:12the for the running they do these famous
- 00:49:14long-distance races is that it's a form
- 00:49:17of prayer um it's really very beautiful
- 00:49:20um and um and it's a it's a metaphor for
- 00:49:23for life and um and and it's also a an
- 00:49:26opportunity to bet and sports and all
- 00:49:28that it's all wrapped into one and and
- 00:49:31what I've learned was that this actually
- 00:49:33used to be almost Universal among Native
- 00:49:37American populations right Native
- 00:49:38American tribes everybody had
- 00:49:40long-distance races and ball games and
- 00:49:42and they were all had a spiritual
- 00:49:44element it's just that they've they've
- 00:49:47retained their traditions because
- 00:49:49they're in a very remote part of of
- 00:49:51Mexico that's essentially inaccessible
- 00:49:54we all used to do this all human used to
- 00:49:57do this and in fact if you think if you
- 00:49:58look around the world every population
- 00:50:00has a tradition of endurance endurance
- 00:50:02events some of the subject might you
- 00:50:04talk about in your book but also outside
- 00:50:06of your book is is how we used to run um
- 00:50:10in terms of you know I was at the foot
- 00:50:12doctor what's it called I don't know
- 00:50:14what they're called orthoped pediatrist
- 00:50:15that's what I said
- 00:50:17podiatrist what did I say but I went to
- 00:50:20the podiatrist the other day because I I
- 00:50:23got this what's it called when you're
- 00:50:26I'm going to point at it on my foot this
- 00:50:28part of my foot here started to get lots
- 00:50:29of pain every PL fitis that's it planter
- 00:50:33fitis I started to get some planter ftis
- 00:50:35so fun and it was just this ongoing pain
- 00:50:39and they prescribed me some insoles I
- 00:50:41stood on a couple of machines some soft
- 00:50:44stuff and they measured my foot and took
- 00:50:46this scan of it and said right basically
- 00:50:48you're standing wrong um your arch is a
- 00:50:50bit too flat take these insoles and wear
- 00:50:52them in all of your shoes and I just I
- 00:50:54always think in these moments when
- 00:50:56someone prescri describes me something
- 00:50:57that's not natural I
- 00:51:00go why like where did I go wrong and I
- 00:51:04think that's the key question where did
- 00:51:06I go wrong who lied to me to the point
- 00:51:09now that at 30 years old I have these
- 00:51:11bloody insoles that have to put in all
- 00:51:13my shoes because presumably that's not
- 00:51:16natural presumably my my ancestors don't
- 00:51:18have Bloody insults
- 00:51:20yeah
- 00:51:22so planter fasciitis is what I would
- 00:51:25call a mismatch disease right a disease
- 00:51:27that's more common or more severe
- 00:51:28because our bodies are inadequately
- 00:51:30adapted to Modern environments and in
- 00:51:32your case and as is the case with a lot
- 00:51:34of people you have a weak foot so so we
- 00:51:37you know you look like you go to the gym
- 00:51:39looks like you're a pretty fit person
- 00:51:41right I'll make a bet you you strengthen
- 00:51:43pretty much every muscle group in your
- 00:51:45body except your feet right comment
- 00:51:47right well but we don't right one of the
- 00:51:49reasons is because we we encase our feet
- 00:51:51in stiff sold shoes that are very
- 00:51:53comfortable and and the reason the shoes
- 00:51:55are comfortable is that you're your foot
- 00:51:57muscles have to do less work when you
- 00:51:58was using those shoes right we have
- 00:52:00shoes that are stiff soles they have
- 00:52:02arch supports right and your your foot
- 00:52:04has four layers of muscles in them and
- 00:52:06those muscles are supporting your arch
- 00:52:08and at the bottom of those four layers
- 00:52:10of muscles is this layer of connective
- 00:52:12tissue the plantar fascia and the
- 00:52:14problem with the plantar fascia is that
- 00:52:16if it stretches too much it like
- 00:52:18anything else right it gets inflamed but
- 00:52:20it's got almost no vascularization right
- 00:52:22so it it's very hard for it to repair
- 00:52:24itself when it gets inflamed to prevent
- 00:52:26PL plantor fasciitis the best way to
- 00:52:29preventing it is having a strong foot a
- 00:52:31strong foot's a healthy foot so the way
- 00:52:32to way to treat the disease on the long
- 00:52:36term is to strengthen your foot but if
- 00:52:39you want to just alleviate the symptoms
- 00:52:41that's what your podiatrist did by
- 00:52:43giving you an insole right it's
- 00:52:45basically preventing your mus your arch
- 00:52:47from collapsing as much making it more
- 00:52:49comfortable so your your plantar fascia
- 00:52:51gets stress less and so it can kind of
- 00:52:54um alleviates that that that that that
- 00:52:56stretching and hence the pain right so
- 00:52:59that's a typical example of what I call
- 00:53:00dis Evolution it's what what happens
- 00:53:03when you treat the symptoms of a
- 00:53:04mismatch disease rather than their
- 00:53:06causes or preventing their causes so
- 00:53:09podiatrists are a bit like drug pushers
- 00:53:10in that sense right because they're
- 00:53:12they're essentially putting your foot in
- 00:53:14a cast right and then and for the rest
- 00:53:16of your life you kind of have to keep
- 00:53:18using them unless you strengthen your
- 00:53:20feet so I so so there's nothing wrong
- 00:53:22with those you know treating the
- 00:53:23symptoms I mean pain is no fun so we are
- 00:53:25the insoles right kind of you know
- 00:53:27alleviate the pain but also work on
- 00:53:30strengthening your foot and I think
- 00:53:31you'll find that the planter fasciitis
- 00:53:33will will disappear and never come back
- 00:53:35so the plant of fitis fasciitis um has
- 00:53:39now
- 00:53:41healed after about a month of wearing
- 00:53:43the insole um I no longer have the
- 00:53:45insoles um with me here in New York and
- 00:53:49I don't have them in any of my shoes
- 00:53:50because I've also taken a bit of time
- 00:53:51off um running on my feet I was playing
- 00:53:54a lot of football so now I'm at a point
- 00:53:56point where I can go to the preventable
- 00:53:57stage prevent it happening again and you
- 00:53:59said to strengthen my foot how does one
- 00:54:01strengthen their foot good question so
- 00:54:04there are some exercises um they're kind
- 00:54:06of foot doming exercises and things like
- 00:54:08which there you know I can send you some
- 00:54:10links to videos showing you some good
- 00:54:12foot strengthening exercises so that's
- 00:54:14one way to do it um but the other way is
- 00:54:16to wear more minimal shoes um to wear
- 00:54:18shoes that aren't stiff sold that don't
- 00:54:20have AR arch supports go barefoot a lot
- 00:54:23right um and those that will naturally
- 00:54:25strengthen the muscles in your foot
- 00:54:26because you'll have to use those muscles
- 00:54:28so you ever gone for like a long walk or
- 00:54:29run on a beach right and afterwards your
- 00:54:31your feet are kind of tired M right the
- 00:54:33reason your feet are tired is because
- 00:54:35you're now working on a compliant
- 00:54:36surface right it's not stiff so your
- 00:54:38muscles having to work more to stiffen
- 00:54:40your foot to push you forward right jack
- 00:54:43could you go grab my the black shoe out
- 00:54:45of my bag I just want to show him
- 00:54:46something so um so wearing shoes that
- 00:54:49aren't has stiff sold they don't have
- 00:54:51arch supports will slowly strengthen
- 00:54:53your feet but and this is a huge butt if
- 00:54:55you do too much to fast you will your
- 00:54:58planter F will come roaring back and
- 00:55:00you'll hate me you'll like you'll never
- 00:55:01forgive me because um yeah there's a
- 00:55:04Vivo Barefoot um yeah I wear the same
- 00:55:06shoes oh you you've got the same shoes
- 00:55:09on um great shoes yeah those are
- 00:55:11wonderful shoes those are those are the
- 00:55:13those are the exactly the kind of shoes
- 00:55:14that will help strengthen your feet
- 00:55:16these are fairly a new addition in my
- 00:55:17life yeah they and they feel really
- 00:55:19strange because you can kind of feel the
- 00:55:20floor yeah it's exactly what you've
- 00:55:22described is yeah but but you you can
- 00:55:24transition if you have weak feet which
- 00:55:26I'm I'm guessing you do you if you go if
- 00:55:28you suddenly that's the only shoe you
- 00:55:30wear all the time you'll probably regret
- 00:55:33it right so so slowly slowly slowly
- 00:55:35increase the percentage of time that
- 00:55:37just like anything else if you if you
- 00:55:39like suddenly decide to lift you know
- 00:55:41huge weights that you can't lift before
- 00:55:43you'll hurt yourself right the same
- 00:55:44thing is with your feet so so slowly it
- 00:55:46does it but you if you do it gradually
- 00:55:48and slowly and carefully you can build
- 00:55:50up strength in your foot and um and
- 00:55:52you'll and you'll be a happier happier
- 00:55:54person and this is this goes back to
- 00:55:56everything else you've said about how
- 00:55:57choosing Comfort choosing to have a nice
- 00:55:59supportive shoe has actually just kind
- 00:56:01of deferred a problem off into the
- 00:56:03future for me it's the same with diet
- 00:56:05it's the same with avoiding exercise and
- 00:56:06being seditary and and all these other
- 00:56:08things where when you choose the easy
- 00:56:10Road in the short term which is this
- 00:56:11wonderful cushion shoe I've chosen the
- 00:56:13muscle hasn't built up in my foot and
- 00:56:15I've paid the price correct so I need to
- 00:56:18again choose discomfort more in the
- 00:56:20short term go up the stairs run Barefoot
- 00:56:24to avoid the late the consequences later
- 00:56:26down the line yeah I mean I don't think
- 00:56:28you have to run Barefoot but um though
- 00:56:29it can be fun but um um but yeah I mean
- 00:56:33and I can think of plenty of other
- 00:56:34examples um we love Comfort but Comfort
- 00:56:36is not necessarily good for us when you
- 00:56:39um when you look at these tribes are
- 00:56:42they do you know who liver King is huge
- 00:56:44massive muscles talks about an ancestor
- 00:56:46living um what do our hunter gatherer
- 00:56:49ancestors look like in terms of that not
- 00:56:52like him no okay I mean look think about
- 00:56:55it muscle is it's really expensive right
- 00:56:57it's actually a super expensive tissue
- 00:57:00about a third of our body's muscle and
- 00:57:01it's using up about about you know A
- 00:57:03fifth or more of the calories that we're
- 00:57:06expending right just just sitting there
- 00:57:08not even using them right they're
- 00:57:09they're very costly tissues right and so
- 00:57:12if you have more muscle than you need
- 00:57:14you're
- 00:57:16basically adding to your your cost of
- 00:57:19living right if you if you're a hunter
- 00:57:21gather or even a subsistence farmer
- 00:57:22living on the margin of food security
- 00:57:25having more muscle than you need is
- 00:57:27actually deleterious right remember the
- 00:57:28only thing that natural selection cares
- 00:57:30about is how many offspring you have who
- 00:57:32survive and reproduce it doesn't care if
- 00:57:33you're strong or healthy or nice or
- 00:57:36loved or you know fun or whatever it
- 00:57:39only cares about whether you have
- 00:57:41grandchildren that's it right that's the
- 00:57:43cold calculus of selection my brain is
- 00:57:45going if I have big muscles I'll have
- 00:57:48more romantic opportunities than I'll
- 00:57:49have grandchildren well only up to a
- 00:57:51certain point right so if more muscles
- 00:57:53if if they attract the opposite sex and
- 00:57:55and make them want to reproduce with you
- 00:57:57yes that could be a benefit um I'm not
- 00:57:59so sure how much women are attracted to
- 00:58:02the liver King but um um and that's not
- 00:58:05something I even want to know the answer
- 00:58:06to but um and certainly shouldn't ask
- 00:58:08him but um um um but but there's a
- 00:58:11reason we have use it or lose it which
- 00:58:13you mentioned earlier right because when
- 00:58:16we need when we increase our demand we
- 00:58:18increase our capacity right when you go
- 00:58:20to the gym and you out right you build
- 00:58:22muscle but if you stop using those
- 00:58:24muscles you lose it and that's an adapt
- 00:58:26right because you don't want to spend
- 00:58:28extra energy on muscles you're not using
- 00:58:30right so you want enough but not too
- 00:58:32much you want to be economical with
- 00:58:34muscle mass right um and so our if you
- 00:58:37look at the data um from Hunter gathers
- 00:58:39and people have done that they've done
- 00:58:40grip strength tests Etc and all kinds of
- 00:58:42other fun things with like mini Olympics
- 00:58:44and we've done this too um people are
- 00:58:47reasonably strong but they're not super
- 00:58:49strong and they're not they're not buff
- 00:58:51and built and bulked and all that sort
- 00:58:53of stuff they've got enough muscle to do
- 00:58:54what they need to do but no more and the
- 00:58:57reason why people find muscle attractive
- 00:58:59anyway is because it's a evolutionary
- 00:59:01signal isn't it
- 00:59:03of uh reproductive value and resources
- 00:59:06maybe and your ability to go out and do
- 00:59:09you know what I mean why why does why
- 00:59:10does a woman for example find a man with
- 00:59:13muscles or in good shape attractive in
- 00:59:162023 when we're not hunting for
- 00:59:18gazelle well I'm not a I'm not a I'm not
- 00:59:21a psychologist or or so I'm not sure if
- 00:59:23I I'm qualified to answer that but I
- 00:59:25could I could Venture the guess that
- 00:59:27obviously if you're trying to if you
- 00:59:29know we pair bond as a species and we
- 00:59:31have been for for millions of years
- 00:59:33probably you want to pair bond with
- 00:59:35somebody who's going to because we also
- 00:59:36have of cooperation in food sharing
- 00:59:38right you want to pair bond with
- 00:59:40somebody who's going to be able to you
- 00:59:41know bring home the bacon literally and
- 00:59:43figuratively right but but bringing on
- 00:59:45the bacon does not mean looking like
- 00:59:46Arnold schwarzen at least back in the
- 00:59:48day Arnold schwarzer back in the day
- 00:59:50right being being bringing home the
- 00:59:51bacon back in the day meant being a a
- 00:59:54persistence Hunter being able to to run
- 00:59:56long distances and being moderately
- 00:59:57strong so they looked more like a
- 00:59:59marathoner or or a football player than
- 01:00:01they did a a weightlifter right so it's
- 01:00:04conceivable it's conceivable that
- 01:00:05someone who is really really big is
- 01:00:09actually um less attractive because they
- 01:00:12wouldn't have been able to hunt and run
- 01:00:14and Hunt as well as someone who is a
- 01:00:17little bit Yeah you also have you have
- 01:00:18to feed more you have to feed them more
- 01:00:20too yeah and that's a you know those are
- 01:00:22precious calories so I'm going to guess
- 01:00:24that uh look if you look in in in
- 01:00:26non-western populations uh you don't see
- 01:00:29physiques like that this is a this is a
- 01:00:31privilege of people who are able to go
- 01:00:33to gyms and um and you know e you know
- 01:00:38you know whey powder shakes and all that
- 01:00:40kind of stuff to kind of build their
- 01:00:42crazy muscle mass but it's not something
- 01:00:44that our ancestors were able to do on a
- 01:00:46regular basis that's for sure a quick
- 01:00:48word on hu as you know they're resp
- 01:00:49sponsor of this podcast and I'm an
- 01:00:51investor in the company one of the
- 01:00:52things I've never really explained is
- 01:00:53how I came to have a relationship with
- 01:00:55Hu one day in the office many years ago
- 01:00:57a guy walked past called Michael and he
- 01:00:59was wearing a hued t-shirt and I was
- 01:01:02really compelled by the logo I just
- 01:01:03thought from a design aesthetic point of
- 01:01:05view it was really interesting and I
- 01:01:06asked him what that word meant and why
- 01:01:08he was wearing that T-shirt and he said
- 01:01:10it's this brand called hu and they make
- 01:01:12food that is nutritionally complete and
- 01:01:14very very convenient and has the planet
- 01:01:16in mind and he the next day dropped off
- 01:01:19a little bottle of hu on my desk and
- 01:01:21from that day onwards I completely got
- 01:01:23it because I'm someone that cares
- 01:01:25tremendously about having a
- 01:01:26nutritionally complete diet but
- 01:01:28sometimes because of the way my life is
- 01:01:30that falls by the wayside so if there
- 01:01:32was a really convenient reliable
- 01:01:34trustworthy way for me to be
- 01:01:36nutritionally complete in an affordable
- 01:01:38way I was all ears especially if it's a
- 01:01:40way that is conscious of the planet give
- 01:01:42it a chance give it a shot let me know
- 01:01:44what you think there's another myth that
- 01:01:47you bust which I thought was really
- 01:01:48interesting because I think I know a lot
- 01:01:50of people that have used this as a as a
- 01:01:52reason not to run they say it's really
- 01:01:54bad for your knees oh man that gets me
- 01:01:57so mad right I mean I hear this from
- 01:01:58doctors all the time right oh yeah
- 01:02:00running is bad for your knees now it is
- 01:02:02true that knee injuries are the most
- 01:02:05common running injuries um um but
- 01:02:08arthritis which is really what they're
- 01:02:10usually talking about um it's absolutely
- 01:02:13definitively not true that running
- 01:02:15increases rates of knee uh cartilage
- 01:02:18damage and arthritis so arthritis is
- 01:02:20caused by cartilage wearing away in a
- 01:02:21joint right and it's it's a it's a myth
- 01:02:24that that running actually increases
- 01:02:26cartilage damage if you have arthritis
- 01:02:29running is excruciating and problematic
- 01:02:31but if you don't have it running
- 01:02:32actually uh if anything may be slightly
- 01:02:35preventive um because cartilage joints
- 01:02:39like everything else benefits from being
- 01:02:41used right and so physical activity
- 01:02:43actually helps promote strong and
- 01:02:45healthy joints we used to think that it
- 01:02:47just cause them to wear away but
- 01:02:49actually you know like cars you know
- 01:02:50wearing away their tires but now we know
- 01:02:53that actually physical activity promotes
- 01:02:55um repair mechanisms in cartilage just
- 01:02:57as it does in other tissues in the body
- 01:03:00and um um and of course the other thing
- 01:03:03about running is that I think a lot of
- 01:03:04people run incorrectly today so uh so
- 01:03:08that's why we started studying barefoot
- 01:03:09running millons you know a long a few a
- 01:03:11bunch of few decades ago is because if
- 01:03:13humans have been running for millions of
- 01:03:15years most of that time we were running
- 01:03:16Barefoot so kind of curious how did
- 01:03:18people run before shoes and what we
- 01:03:19learned was that today shoes have these
- 01:03:22cushioned
- 01:03:23heels that enable you to essentially run
- 01:03:25the way you walk right you land on your
- 01:03:27heel and everybody who's Barefoot
- 01:03:29sometimes lands on their heel but people
- 01:03:31who are Barefoot often more often then
- 01:03:33not land on the ball of their foot and
- 01:03:35then then let their heel down it's
- 01:03:36called A four-foot strike or a mid-foot
- 01:03:38strike and when you do that we worked
- 01:03:40out the bi mechanics of that and
- 01:03:42published a paper on the cover of nature
- 01:03:43showing that when you do that you
- 01:03:45actually prevent your foot from crashing
- 01:03:48into the ground causing what's called an
- 01:03:49impact Peak a collisional force you run
- 01:03:52lightly and gently so if you were to
- 01:03:54take your shoes off and run up Lexington
- 01:03:57Avenue here I guarantee you you would
- 01:04:00not be landing on your heels within a
- 01:04:02few steps you'd start landing on the
- 01:04:03ball of your foot because it hurts less
- 01:04:06and so that's how we evolve to run we
- 01:04:07evolve to run in a cushion in a in a way
- 01:04:09that that doesn't involve you know
- 01:04:12slamming into the ground with every step
- 01:04:15and the and that that causes less Force
- 01:04:19around your knee um the tradeoff though
- 01:04:22because nothing comes for free
- 01:04:23everything has trade-offs is that it's
- 01:04:25harder on your your ankles your calf
- 01:04:27muscles and your kiles have to do now a
- 01:04:29lot more work to let your heel down and
- 01:04:31so people who switch from heel striking
- 01:04:34to four-foot striking often have
- 01:04:35Achilles tendon problems they get calf
- 01:04:37muscle problems if they don't do it
- 01:04:39properly they'll get if their foot
- 01:04:40muscles aren't strong enough they'll get
- 01:04:42all kinds of foot problems right so you
- 01:04:43can't just suddenly become a Barefoot
- 01:04:45Runner and start four-foot striking if
- 01:04:47you're going to switch you have to
- 01:04:48switch gradually and slowly and build up
- 01:04:50strength and learn to do it properly
- 01:04:51another thing people do is they tend to
- 01:04:52run like a ballerina high up on their
- 01:04:54toes that's really hard on your ankles
- 01:04:57and your calves so you got to do it
- 01:04:58properly but if you but it can have
- 01:05:00enormous benefits and so and we know
- 01:05:03again if you run that way there put puts
- 01:05:05much less force on your knees and again
- 01:05:07knees are where people get injured the
- 01:05:08most so I think a lot of knee injuries
- 01:05:10come from um um from the way in which we
- 01:05:15run so would you recommend if you can to
- 01:05:19run
- 01:05:20more Barefoot especially if you have
- 01:05:23those kind of shoes we just discussed
- 01:05:25well I think what matters is how you run
- 01:05:27not what's on your feet right so I would
- 01:05:28say a Barefoot style how do I learn to
- 01:05:31run in a new way though well I mean
- 01:05:33there's some tricks so one of them is um
- 01:05:35first of all I don't know how you run so
- 01:05:37so so maybe maybe you already run just
- 01:05:39fine um but um a Barefoot style tends to
- 01:05:43be um a high stride rate or high stride
- 01:05:46frequency so um 90 strides per minute or
- 01:05:49180 steps per minute
- 01:05:51roughly you know um 170 to 180 steps per
- 01:05:55minute is about right um relatively
- 01:05:58short strides so you're not throwing
- 01:06:00your leg out and to me the most
- 01:06:02important thing is not what we call over
- 01:06:03striding if you ask any coach on the
- 01:06:04planet they'll say over striding is bad
- 01:06:06over striding is when you throw your leg
- 01:06:08out way in front of you and you land and
- 01:06:09that leg is a stiff leg so that a stiff
- 01:06:12leg means more Force right um and a and
- 01:06:16um um and it's harder on your knees um
- 01:06:19and so if and so a good runner lands uh
- 01:06:22with their with their shank with their
- 01:06:24tibia vertical so their ankle is below
- 01:06:26their knee when you do
- 01:06:29that pretty much everything will work
- 01:06:31out properly right um it'll mean that
- 01:06:34you won't land hard on your heel it'll
- 01:06:36mean that your your leg will be acting
- 01:06:38like an excellent spring you willon
- 01:06:40produce a lot of breaking force um it's
- 01:06:43a it's a it's I to me I think the most
- 01:06:45important skill in running is not to
- 01:06:47overstride um and um so I actually tell
- 01:06:50instead so don't worry about how you're
- 01:06:51going to hit the ground just worry about
- 01:06:53your overstride if you solve your over
- 01:06:55DED you're more likely to run well what
- 01:06:58do you think's um what's the best kind
- 01:07:01of sort of cardiovascular exercise for
- 01:07:03the promotion of good health because
- 01:07:06I've been doing some CrossFit stuff I've
- 01:07:07been doing some hit workouts um I've
- 01:07:10been trying not to run because I've had
- 01:07:12a few injuries and trying not to run as
- 01:07:14much because it seems to be a little bit
- 01:07:15more impact than if I'm bullshitting
- 01:07:17myself there but um so I've been doing
- 01:07:18some like hit workouts every for 30
- 01:07:21minutes a day when I leave here well you
- 01:07:23do hit you hit hit hit works every
- 01:07:25single day pretty much every day at the
- 01:07:27moment we track it with a group of
- 01:07:28friends we have there's 10 of us in a
- 01:07:29WhatsApp group whoever's L whoever does
- 01:07:32the least workouts every month is
- 01:07:33evicted and there's a raffle so there's
- 01:07:35a raffle yesterday on the first was it
- 01:07:37the first yesterday yeah for a new
- 01:07:39member and we do that every month and
- 01:07:40we've done it for three and a half years
- 01:07:42that's great I've been in there I was
- 01:07:44the first ever member so I've been in
- 01:07:45there for three and a half
- 01:07:46years well I think you know I mean the
- 01:07:48most the best exercise the one you like
- 01:07:50doing is there one that's like better
- 01:07:52you know like the you know I think you
- 01:07:53got to mix it up there is no one perfect
- 01:07:55exercise right I mean I think what you
- 01:07:57do sounds actually pretty good right you
- 01:08:00got a mixture of of of you know low slow
- 01:08:04intensity some some high intensity you
- 01:08:06want to have some strength training you
- 01:08:08want to have some cardio I mean we never
- 01:08:10evolve to do one thing and our bodies
- 01:08:13are too complex to benefit from just one
- 01:08:15thing uh mixing it up is is the obvious
- 01:08:18way to go right um I think the Bedrock
- 01:08:20for any kind of physical I mean you ask
- 01:08:22anybody right cardio is the Bedrock of
- 01:08:25of of of of of exercise right it it
- 01:08:28promotes the most health benefits right
- 01:08:30it's good for your good you know you're
- 01:08:32burning energy it's good for your
- 01:08:33cardiovascular system it's good for
- 01:08:35controlling inflammation but but but
- 01:08:38there are different kinds of cardio in
- 01:08:40high intensity versus low intensity and
- 01:08:42there's also strength training right uh
- 01:08:44which is also you know important so you
- 01:08:46know there's no look we've tried to
- 01:08:49medicalize exercise right it's like a
- 01:08:51like there's a proper dose right you
- 01:08:52know take this pill this many mill migs
- 01:08:56this many times per week right exercise
- 01:08:59it doesn't work that way there is no
- 01:09:01there is no optimal dose everybody's
- 01:09:03different depends on are you more
- 01:09:05worried about heart disease or
- 01:09:06Alzheimer's or diabetes or depression or
- 01:09:11you know are you previously injured are
- 01:09:13you fit are you unfit there it's
- 01:09:16impossible to prescribe exercise in this
- 01:09:18kind of medicalized way it doesn't work
- 01:09:20a lot of people exercise because they
- 01:09:23believe it will help them to lose fat ah
- 01:09:26one of the biggest debates on the planet
- 01:09:28it has been a huge debate even on this
- 01:09:29podcast I've had multiple people come
- 01:09:31and say a whole range of things about
- 01:09:34weight loss and cardio and I'm kind of I
- 01:09:37don't know what to believe
- 01:09:38anymore well anybody who wasn't confused
- 01:09:41doesn't understand what's going on right
- 01:09:42you know it's
- 01:09:44um it's sad that there such a debate um
- 01:09:47but um but that's how science works
- 01:09:50right so um as you know I wrote about
- 01:09:54that in this book
- 01:09:57um part of the explanation for the
- 01:10:00debate is that again what dose are you
- 01:10:04analyzing in what population in what
- 01:10:07kind of context right so the pretty much
- 01:10:10every major Health Organization in the
- 01:10:11world recommends that you get 150
- 01:10:13minutes per week of fysical activity
- 01:10:15that's kind of like The Benchmark that's
- 01:10:17what the you know the wh who the World
- 01:10:20Health Organization considers the the
- 01:10:22division between being sedentary versus
- 01:10:24active
- 01:10:26so and and a lot of people are unfit and
- 01:10:28overweight and struggling to be
- 01:10:30physically active have struggled to get
- 01:10:33150 minutes a week right so a lot of
- 01:10:35studies prescribe 150 minutes a week of
- 01:10:38exercise walking for example a moderate
- 01:10:40intensity ex physical activity and then
- 01:10:43look at effects on weight loss and guess
- 01:10:45what when you when you walk 150 minutes
- 01:10:47a week which is what 20 minutes a day of
- 01:10:48walking which is about a mile a mile a
- 01:10:51day you're not going to lose much weight
- 01:10:53you're basically burning about 50 50
- 01:10:55calories a day doing that right that's a
- 01:10:58ping amount of calories compared to
- 01:11:01drinking a glass of orange juice right
- 01:11:03so so surprise surprise those kinds of
- 01:11:06studies show that those doses of
- 01:11:09physical activity are not very effective
- 01:11:11for weight loss however plenty of
- 01:11:14rigorous controlled studies that look at
- 01:11:16higher doses of physical activity 300
- 01:11:19minutes a week or more find that they
- 01:11:21are effective losing for helping people
- 01:11:23lose weight but not fast and not large
- 01:11:25quantities so you're never going to lose
- 01:11:26a lot of weight really fast by
- 01:11:28exercising it's just not going to happen
- 01:11:31because you know a cheeseburger has what
- 01:11:33you know 800 900 calories you have to
- 01:11:35run you know 15 kilometers to lose that
- 01:11:39to to burn the same number of calories
- 01:11:40you're going to be hungry afterwards too
- 01:11:41so you're going to make some of that
- 01:11:42back you have
- 01:11:44compensation so so physical activity is
- 01:11:47a is actually there's just no way around
- 01:11:49it you have to be a flat earther not to
- 01:11:50argue this way but there you know there
- 01:11:52physical activity can help you lose
- 01:11:54weight but it's not going to can help
- 01:11:55you lose a lot of weight fast and not at
- 01:11:57the low doses that often are prescribed
- 01:12:00but the one thing that we do agree on
- 01:12:02and I think this would not be
- 01:12:03controversial is that physical activity
- 01:12:05is really important for helping people
- 01:12:08prevent themselves from gaining weight
- 01:12:10or after a diet from regaining weight
- 01:12:13and there are many many studies which
- 01:12:14show this one of my favorite was a study
- 01:12:16that was done in in Boston on policemen
- 01:12:18you know policemen are kind of have a
- 01:12:19reputation for you know having too many
- 01:12:21donuts and being overweight right and
- 01:12:23Boston is no exception so they did this
- 01:12:25great study at at at Boston University
- 01:12:27right across the across the river where
- 01:12:29they got a bunch of policemen on a
- 01:12:31diet really severe diet the policemen
- 01:12:34all lost weight but some of the
- 01:12:35policemen were were had to diet and
- 01:12:37exercise some just dieted alone and as
- 01:12:39you might imagine the ones who dieted
- 01:12:41plus exercise lost a little bit more
- 01:12:43weight not a lot just a little but and
- 01:12:46then they tracked them for months
- 01:12:47afterwards because most people after a
- 01:12:49diet the weight comes just crashing back
- 01:12:51right the policeman who's kept
- 01:12:53exercising even after the diet was over
- 01:12:55and they went back to eating whatever
- 01:12:56the hell they wanted donuts whatever
- 01:12:58they're the ones who kept the weight off
- 01:13:00but the ones who didn't
- 01:13:02exercise the weight came crushing back
- 01:13:05another good example would be the have
- 01:13:07you ever seen the TV show The Biggest
- 01:13:08Loser uh yes where they people go on and
- 01:13:10lose weight yeah so that so there's
- 01:13:12crazy show right these people you know
- 01:13:14this is like totally unhealthy they were
- 01:13:16confined to a Ranch in Malibu and these
- 01:13:18guy these people lost ridiculous amounts
- 01:13:20of weight guy named um Kevin Hall at the
- 01:13:22National Institute of Health studied
- 01:13:23them for for for years afterwards and
- 01:13:26looked at and most of them regained a
- 01:13:28lot of the weight that they lost and
- 01:13:30there was one person on the show who did
- 01:13:32not and that was the person who kept
- 01:13:34exercising right and that's you know
- 01:13:36just yet more when said one data point
- 01:13:37but there's lots and lots of evidence to
- 01:13:39show that physical activity what it's
- 01:13:41other important benefit when it comes to
- 01:13:43weight is is preventing weight gain or
- 01:13:45weight regain when we talk about dieting
- 01:13:47we talk about exercise or Diet exercise
- 01:13:49or Diet like why is it an or I mean why
- 01:13:52isn't it exercise and diet diet is of
- 01:13:55course the Bedrock for weight loss but
- 01:13:57exercise also plays an important role
- 01:14:00and should be part of the mix on the um
- 01:14:02police example and The Biggest Loser
- 01:14:04example I can relate in the sense that
- 01:14:07when I
- 01:14:09exercise when I go through the the
- 01:14:11moments of my life where I'm most
- 01:14:12committed to exercise I'm also most
- 01:14:16committed to my diet yeah because I if I
- 01:14:19go to the gym I will not then leave the
- 01:14:21gym and have a donut or a pizza
- 01:14:24absolutely not it seems like wasting the
- 01:14:27effort so if you look at the sort of
- 01:14:29correlation between the moments in my
- 01:14:30life where I eat healthiest they're also
- 01:14:32the moments in my life where I'm most
- 01:14:33most focused on the gym and I noticed
- 01:14:35there was a couple of months ago had a
- 01:14:37bit of a motivation slump managed to
- 01:14:39stay in our little WhatsApp group but
- 01:14:41coasted down the bottom of the
- 01:14:42leaderboard for for a couple of months
- 01:14:43on and just like surviving every month
- 01:14:45by one um and through those moments my
- 01:14:50motivation in the gym had gone down and
- 01:14:51my diet had gone down the minute I
- 01:14:53managed to get in the gym into a big
- 01:14:56workout the same day my diet came back
- 01:14:59yeah of course right and they coary
- 01:15:02right and and that's one of the reasons
- 01:15:03why when people do big studies of of you
- 01:15:06know what you know you can look at what
- 01:15:08what what people die of right what's on
- 01:15:10the death certificate you know cancer
- 01:15:12heart disease whatever heart attack um
- 01:15:14and then you look at what caused the
- 01:15:16cancer what caused the heart dis when
- 01:15:17people try to do that it's almost
- 01:15:19impossible to separate diet and exercise
- 01:15:22because people who tend to eat better
- 01:15:24also tend to exercise more they're both
- 01:15:26in our modern upside down chopsy Turvy
- 01:15:29world they're both markers of privilege
- 01:15:30people have money to go to the gym also
- 01:15:32have money to buy healthy foods and um
- 01:15:36um and people who care about their
- 01:15:38physical activity also tend to care
- 01:15:39about their diet so so at that level
- 01:15:43they're very hard to separate however if
- 01:15:46you're studying a particular component
- 01:15:48of a system in a randomized controls
- 01:15:51trial in a lab you can separate them out
- 01:15:53and so we know that have independent and
- 01:15:56also interactive effects what is the um
- 01:15:59the most important thing we haven't
- 01:16:00talked about Daniel I think the most
- 01:16:02important thing is that we need to be
- 01:16:04compassionate towards each other I mean
- 01:16:06there's so much shaming and blaming and
- 01:16:09prescriptions and you know um um you
- 01:16:13know the reason I entitled the book
- 01:16:16exercised is that people we make people
- 01:16:18feel exercised about exercise we make
- 01:16:20them
- 01:16:21feel uncomfortable and un confident and
- 01:16:25shamed and and you know here you and I
- 01:16:28are having this conversation but I can
- 01:16:30tell that you you take you know you're
- 01:16:32you're I mean I know I've listened to
- 01:16:33enough of your podcast you care about
- 01:16:35your your health and you care about diet
- 01:16:37you care about exercise and people may
- 01:16:38look at you and think gosh I wish I was
- 01:16:40like him but it's just not me you know I
- 01:16:43can't I'm not I'm not there right and
- 01:16:45they may feel put off by our
- 01:16:46conversation and I think that so often
- 01:16:49these discussions make people feel feel
- 01:16:51bad about about what they're doing and I
- 01:16:53and I and I and I and I think that what
- 01:16:55we need to emphasize is that if you put
- 01:16:59a you know if you put a chocolate cake
- 01:17:01and an apple in front of me here I would
- 01:17:03want to eat the chocolate cake and it
- 01:17:04would I might eat the apple only because
- 01:17:06you're there but if you weren't there I
- 01:17:08would eat the chocolate cake right and
- 01:17:10and and when I'm in the in the in my
- 01:17:12building at at Harvard my office is on
- 01:17:15the fifth floor of this old Victorian
- 01:17:17building every single day I want to take
- 01:17:19the elevator and the only reason I take
- 01:17:21the stairs is that if anybody catches me
- 01:17:23in the elevator I'll be a hypocrite
- 01:17:25it's not that I don't want to take the
- 01:17:26elevator I do want to take the elevator
- 01:17:28right I guess you guys say Lift right um
- 01:17:31and and and we make people feel bad for
- 01:17:33taking the elevator right um they
- 01:17:35shouldn't feel bad it's an instinct and
- 01:17:37so I think we have to figure out ways to
- 01:17:40help people without shaming them and
- 01:17:42without blaming them and without
- 01:17:44bragging and whatever make you know you
- 01:17:46know talking about you know the marathon
- 01:17:48they ran or this that or the other make
- 01:17:50them feel um less uncomfortable about
- 01:17:53the topic and realize that you don't
- 01:17:55have to swim the English Channel or run
- 01:17:56a marathon or you know join your
- 01:18:00WhatsApp group and do crazy hit workouts
- 01:18:02every day by the way you don't need to
- 01:18:03do hit workouts every day to get the
- 01:18:04benefit um um instead just you know
- 01:18:07taking the stairs in your building every
- 01:18:09day you know anything is better than
- 01:18:11nothing and and you'll get benefits from
- 01:18:13that and I hope that that's the message
- 01:18:15that needs to get out right anything is
- 01:18:16better than nothing and if you can get
- 01:18:19started on that on that on that pathway
- 01:18:22then it'll it'll eventually become
- 01:18:23self-rewarding and and that and that
- 01:18:25leads me to the other topic that we
- 01:18:26didn't talk about which is that the
- 01:18:28reward system of physical activity you
- 01:18:30know you and I if we go like I'm I'm
- 01:18:32really looking forward to my run
- 01:18:34tomorrow morning in the park I love
- 01:18:35running Central Park it's one of the
- 01:18:36best places in the world to run right a
- 01:18:38fantastic view from the top and it's
- 01:18:40just gorgeous right um but when I run
- 01:18:43Central Park tomorrow I'm G to get a big
- 01:18:45dopamine hit I'm gonna my body is going
- 01:18:47to produce all this dopamine which is
- 01:18:49the molecule that says do that again
- 01:18:51right it's a reward gamblers get
- 01:18:53dopamine hits right um people eat
- 01:18:55chocolate cake get a dopamine hit hit
- 01:18:58right but if I were unfit and overweight
- 01:19:01I wouldn't get that dopamine hit and so
- 01:19:04when people start exercising they don't
- 01:19:06get the reward that people who are fit
- 01:19:08and accustomed to doing it get and then
- 01:19:10they're made to feel bad like you didn't
- 01:19:11enjoy your run around Central Park well
- 01:19:13it takes months if not years before you
- 01:19:16actually get that reward really yeah
- 01:19:18because because uh just like being
- 01:19:21overweight um causes you to become
- 01:19:23insensitive to insulin you become incens
- 01:19:25insensitive to all kinds of other
- 01:19:27hormones and neurotransmitters and
- 01:19:29dopamine is one of them so so it it's
- 01:19:31not an instant like benefit right it's
- 01:19:33hard and so we need to be compassionate
- 01:19:35again towards people who are struggling
- 01:19:37to become fit and struggling to get the
- 01:19:39reward and also if you're overweight and
- 01:19:40you run around Central Park it's like
- 01:19:42like if I were carrying weights in
- 01:19:43running around Central Park it'd be much
- 01:19:44harder right it's you know it's it's
- 01:19:47challenging and so we once you get you
- 01:19:49know into that state it's hard to get
- 01:19:51back to the state of activity and so we
- 01:19:53we need as a as a society to to to help
- 01:19:57those folks rather than judge them those
- 01:19:59folks that are struggling and I was one
- 01:20:01of those folks that were struggling for
- 01:20:02many many years I would say to myself
- 01:20:04every year um pretty much all of my
- 01:20:06adult life that this was going to be the
- 01:20:07year that I'd get fit I'd try all of
- 01:20:09these various different you know fad
- 01:20:12exercise things buy all this stuff I
- 01:20:15announced in 2017 that I was going to
- 01:20:16work out every single day and that
- 01:20:19lasted for six months and then I yo-yoed
- 01:20:21back out of that it never stuck with me
- 01:20:23until
- 01:20:252020 and that's I've been exercising six
- 01:20:28days a week since 20 2020 82% of days
- 01:20:32and um I reflect and try and diagnose
- 01:20:36how I went from someone who what was it
- 01:20:39that changed and if I can figure out
- 01:20:41what it was that changed at the most
- 01:20:43fundamental level in my mindset or my
- 01:20:44attitude or my life or whatever it was
- 01:20:47then I can help other people figure out
- 01:20:50that too or at least give them more
- 01:20:51sound advice or at least be more
- 01:20:53empathetic whatever is required
- 01:20:55to help them you know and I have a
- 01:20:56platform here where I speak about
- 01:20:57exercise a lot and these things so
- 01:20:59what's your suspicion what's your
- 01:21:01suspicion on what it is that makes
- 01:21:02people go from being you know maybe
- 01:21:05having a um a negative opinion towards
- 01:21:08exercise or their ability to be
- 01:21:09disciplined with it
- 01:21:11to becoming an
- 01:21:13exerciser do you know I have this is a
- 01:21:17question that obsesses me in fact we
- 01:21:18have a big project right now a big Grant
- 01:21:20to actually study this really right now
- 01:21:23um because I the more I study it the
- 01:21:26more I think it's
- 01:21:27social the more I think that um um again
- 01:21:32I think people are Physically Active I.E
- 01:21:34in our modern world
- 01:21:35exercise for two reasons when it's
- 01:21:37necessary or rewarding and what makes it
- 01:21:40rewarding for most people is the social
- 01:21:42aspect and that social aspect can take
- 01:21:44many dimensions it can be running with a
- 01:21:47group of friends and you know you might
- 01:21:50want to go
- 01:21:51only a mile but your friends convinc you
- 01:21:55to run another Mile right and you end up
- 01:21:57running two miles right or you're
- 01:21:58feeling bad and crappy and your you know
- 01:22:00your friends help you do it or I a
- 01:22:03running buddy right and I often you know
- 01:22:05meet meet friends for early morning runs
- 01:22:06and I can tell you that the evening
- 01:22:08before it seems like a great idea to
- 01:22:09meet Aaron at 6 am on the corner of mass
- 01:22:12Aven lenan the next morning at 6 am. I
- 01:22:16want to stay in bread with my wife you
- 01:22:17know I don't want I don't want to meet
- 01:22:19this nasty smelly guy you know at 6:00
- 01:22:21a.m. in the cold and dark but I I agreed
- 01:22:23to meet him and out I go right and I'm
- 01:22:25usually glad I did it afterwards or um
- 01:22:28you know we can go on there other social
- 01:22:30ways in which which is but or dancing
- 01:22:32right I mean nobody thinks of dancing as
- 01:22:33exercise but it's exercise right so
- 01:22:36that's one important social Dimension
- 01:22:37and the other one though is
- 01:22:39accountability um I describe in the book
- 01:22:42I'm there's a there's a a friend of mine
- 01:22:44in San Francisco who was struggling to
- 01:22:47to to exercise so she signed up for a a
- 01:22:50a program it says company called
- 01:22:52stick.com I don't know if you've run
- 01:22:53across it where it's a commitment
- 01:22:55contract where you send like $1,000 doar
- 01:22:59to them and they keep it in a bank
- 01:23:00account they probably invest it and make
- 01:23:01a lot of money on it too of course but
- 01:23:04you set up a referee and and you agree
- 01:23:08that I'm G to not smoke or this or that
- 01:23:09or the other or in this case exercise
- 01:23:12and if you don't do it and your referee
- 01:23:15is you know what you know keeping track
- 01:23:17of what you do um you get to choose
- 01:23:20something negative so in her case her
- 01:23:22husband is her referee and she doesn't
- 01:23:24walk can't remember what but every day
- 01:23:26she has to walk a certain number of
- 01:23:27miles her husband will will tell her and
- 01:23:31and or tell the website and it'll send
- 01:23:32$50 to the NRA that week oh my God and
- 01:23:36she hates the NRA with a burning passion
- 01:23:38what is the NRA n the National Rifle
- 01:23:40Association they're the they're the
- 01:23:41people who are trying to prevent gun
- 01:23:43control legislation in the United States
- 01:23:44and they have effectively prevented gun
- 01:23:46control legislation United States which
- 01:23:48is now kills more children than cars in
- 01:23:50the United States so if she doesn't
- 01:23:52exercise she sorry she doesn't do it
- 01:23:53then then then money goes to this
- 01:23:55organization that she hates so this a
- 01:23:56this is a stick if there ever was one as
- 01:23:58opposed to a carrot and I don't think
- 01:24:00she's every time I see her ask her you
- 01:24:01know you have you kept up the walk she
- 01:24:02says oh no yeah hasn't gotten a penny
- 01:24:05right so for her it's been very
- 01:24:06effective so it's she's made a
- 01:24:07commitment contract that that stings
- 01:24:09right that really hurts now I I think
- 01:24:11that might be a little on the extreme
- 01:24:12side and I wouldn't necess recommend
- 01:24:14that to everybody but but she's
- 01:24:16accountable right she's made herself
- 01:24:18accountable in some ways and I think um
- 01:24:20people can find ways to make themselves
- 01:24:22accountable to a friend a loved one a
- 01:24:26parent you know priest who knows what
- 01:24:29right um You Might um or or hire a
- 01:24:31trainer that's mean that's kind of what
- 01:24:32a trainer does makes you accountable
- 01:24:34right I think so so those are again
- 01:24:37social ways to help people be more
- 01:24:39physically active so I think there are
- 01:24:40multiple ways of doing that and I
- 01:24:42suspect that is going to be the most
- 01:24:45effective sort of set of tools that will
- 01:24:47help people one thing I actually do is
- 01:24:49the on the screen saver of my phone it
- 01:24:51has something that really inspires me so
- 01:24:54I see every day and it's that reminder
- 01:24:55for me which reinforces my my why across
- 01:24:58my life it's actually my my home screen
- 01:25:00on my iPhone is actually a bit of a mood
- 01:25:01board for me we have a closing tradition
- 01:25:03on this podcast where the last guest
- 01:25:05leaves a question for the next guest not
- 01:25:06knowing who they're going to leave it
- 01:25:08for and I don't get to see it until I
- 01:25:10open the book um the question is what is
- 01:25:12one aspect or feature of your life that
- 01:25:15causes you the most
- 01:25:19friction SL discomfort and how can you
- 01:25:21change or fix
- 01:25:23it I would I would say
- 01:25:26um it's my tendency to compare myself to
- 01:25:31others
- 01:25:32um uh I you know you know life is short
- 01:25:36life is precious we're all experiments
- 01:25:39of one and uh when I think about when I
- 01:25:44when I when I engage in that oh so and
- 01:25:46so has such and such um that's um that's
- 01:25:49a really bad habit that's a really bad
- 01:25:51trait and it never leads anywhere good
- 01:25:52it only leads towards either either I
- 01:25:55think about how I have more of something
- 01:25:56than somebody else that leads to um uh I
- 01:26:00think uh
- 01:26:02unhealthy um feelings of Pride or
- 01:26:05feelings of jealousy um you know so and
- 01:26:08so has this award or such and such and
- 01:26:10and uh that's um that's kind of pricious
- 01:26:13so I think that's a a bad habit that I
- 01:26:15uh I work hard to to
- 01:26:18overcome because it changes your
- 01:26:20expectations of yourself and that change
- 01:26:23takes steals happiness it steals
- 01:26:24happiness
- 01:26:26yeah it steals happiness thank you for
- 01:26:29the work you do Daniel very important
- 01:26:31very very important and increasingly
- 01:26:33important I think um when we look at the
- 01:26:35the health outcomes especially here in
- 01:26:37the United States of people I mean you
- 01:26:39actually share a number of them in the
- 01:26:40book which I didn't didn't we didn't
- 01:26:42really go into but they're just
- 01:26:44horrifying yeah um that's scary out
- 01:26:46there especially as it Rel relates to
- 01:26:48exercise um there was one in particular
- 01:26:51that I wrote down because it horrified
- 01:26:52me I can't it was just all the stats
- 01:26:55around the current Healthcare only 50%
- 01:26:57of Americans ever exercise ever really
- 01:27:01ever
- 01:27:03ever and only 20% meet those very
- 01:27:06minimal World Health Organization
- 01:27:08standards where I we're a we're we're a
- 01:27:11nation of couch potatoes and the rest of
- 01:27:13the world is headed our
- 01:27:15way but not if they get this
- 01:27:18book because it I think it is a real
- 01:27:20perspective changer and it's a real eyea
- 01:27:22and it's a necessary one so thank you so
- 01:27:23much for w it you're fantastic at what
- 01:27:25you do and um I'm I'm now a huge fan of
- 01:27:28your work after delving in deeper and
- 01:27:30deeper and deeper um so I can't wait to
- 01:27:31see what you do next well thank you and
- 01:27:34I recommend everyone to go get this book
- 01:27:35exercised because um yeah I thought I
- 01:27:38knew a lot about exercise but uh but
- 01:27:40from reading that and having that window
- 01:27:42into Hunter gather ancestors and tribes
- 01:27:44and other cultures it really that whole
- 01:27:46idea of a mismatch life how mismatched
- 01:27:49my life is in so many fundamental ways
- 01:27:50from diet to exercise to socializing um
- 01:27:55and these kind of books help to realign
- 01:27:58well thank you although it seems that
- 01:28:00you're doing a pretty good job I'm
- 01:28:01trying you know I think we're so far
- 01:28:03from being human though that there's
- 01:28:05still a long way to go for all of us so
- 01:28:07thank you
- 01:28:10Daniel quick one as you know Airbnb are
- 01:28:12a sponsor of this podcast and I was
- 01:28:14actually in an Airbnb last weekend when
- 01:28:16me and my friends had a reunion in New
- 01:28:17York and it's from staying in airbnbs
- 01:28:20over the years that led me to start
- 01:28:22hosting my own place I know friends of
- 01:28:24mine who actually Airbnb their own place
- 01:28:26in order to pay for the Airbnb they use
- 01:28:29when they're away on holiday which is
- 01:28:30pretty smart and maybe you stayed in an
- 01:28:32Airbnb before and thought this is
- 01:28:34actually pretty doable maybe my place
- 01:28:36could be an Airbnb it could be as simple
- 01:28:38as starting with a spare room or your
- 01:28:40entire place you could be sitting on an
- 01:28:42Airbnb and not even know it whether you
- 01:28:44could use some extra money to cover your
- 01:28:46bills or something a little bit more fun
- 01:28:48your home might be worth more than you
- 01:28:50think and you can find out how much it's
- 01:28:52worth at airbnb.co
- 01:28:54slash host check it out find out how
- 01:28:57much your home is worth and let me know
- 01:28:59what you think
- 01:29:02[Music]
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