What are the real life Tony Stark glasses?

They are the first full holographic augmented reality glasses developed by Meta, resulting from 10 years of research.

How could generative AI change social media?

It may lead to more engaging content creation, allowing users to personalize experiences and increasing the presence of AI-generated content.

What is the main goal of the holographic glasses?

To create a more natural and social computing experience, moving beyond traditional devices towards a ubiquitous interface.

Why is connection with people important?

It's fundamental for emotional well-being, and technology aims to enhance this connection, especially among those who are geographically apart.

What is the significance of AI in human interaction?

AI has the potential to help articulate emotions and enhance communication, though it should not replace the value of genuine human struggle and connection.

The Future Mark Zuckerberg Is Trying To Build

00:47:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX7OduG1YmI

Ringkasan

TLDRIn this episode of "Huge Conversations," Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg discusses the future of augmented reality (AR) and artificial intelligence (AI), detailing Meta's pioneering holographic glasses designed to foster deeper human connections. Zuckerberg explains how these glasses aim to create immersive experiences that simulate real-life presence, allowing users to interact socially over distances. He notes a concerning trend of decreased in-person friendships and suggests that AR technology may address some of these social challenges. The conversation underscores the important balance between leveraging AI's capabilities for personal growth and maintaining fundamental human connections.

Takeaways

👓 The holographic glasses represent 10 years of research in AR technology.
🌍 Nearly half the global population uses Meta products today.
🤖 Generative AI may revolutionize social media interactions.
🌈 The goal is to foster deeper human connections despite geographical distance.
🌱 Personalized AI can help articulate emotions and enhance communication.
🤝 Social media is evolving from friend-based to creator-focused interactions.
⚙️ Diverse AI systems may coexist like different apps.
📱 Future social interactions could feel even more immersive and real.
⚖️ Struggles in communication remain valuable for personal growth.
💡 Curiosity and adaptability are key for future readiness.

Garis waktu

00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The conversation introduces a pioneering technology with a focus on augmented reality glasses, described as 'real-life Tony Stark glasses' that harness 10 years of research. This innovation symbolizes the next major computing platform post-smartphones, aiming to foster social interaction while mitigating loneliness in an AI-enhanced future.
00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Mark Zuckerberg discusses the intention behind creating full holographic augmented reality glasses, emphasizing the need to miniaturize complex computing technologies. He envisions a world where virtual conversations occur with holograms interacting seamlessly as if physically present, thereby enhancing education, productivity, and entertainment.
00:10:00 - 00:15:00
The discussion reveals intricate details about the design and functionality of the glasses, highlighting their advanced display technology and computing capabilities. Zuckerberg addresses the challenges of synchronizing holographic images with user movements and notes the importance of developing a neural interface for enhanced user interaction.
00:15:00 - 00:20:00
Zuckerberg categorizes different AR technologies, elaborating on display-less glasses like Ray-Ban Meta, intermediate heads-up displays, and full holographic glasses, predicting a diverse array of products catering to varied consumer needs. He foresees an expansive evolution of AR tech with distinct product lines for different user experiences.
00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Zuckerberg emphasizes the importance of creating a sense of presence through AR experiences, which he believes is key to fostering deeper human connections. He expresses optimism about integrating AI to enhance personalized interactions and support emotional understanding, focusing on the role of glasses as an ideal interface for contextual awareness.
00:25:00 - 00:30:00
The challenge of replacing genuine human connection with virtual interactions is discussed, notably the impact of technology on social relationships. Zuckerberg reflects on how digital tools may offer new avenues for connection, despite the decline in traditional socializing observed in recent years, emphasizing the need for balance.
00:30:00 - 00:35:00
Zuckerberg shares insights on how AI and language translation tools can enhance interaction while arguing for the enduring value of learning languages despite technological advancements. He sees future tools aiding in communication without diminishing the importance of personal experience in learning and development.
00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Concerns regarding the impact of AI on humanity are raised, particularly the balance between removing struggle and preserving the essential human experience of effort and growth. Zuckerberg suggests that innovation will always introduce new challenges, preventing complacency in personal and professional development.
00:40:00 - 00:47:10
The conversation closes with a discussion on open source AI development versus centralized models, with Zuckerberg advocating the benefits of open source for safety and collaborative progression in AI technology, while stressing that diverse AI applications will enrich user experiences across various platforms.

Tampilkan lebih banyak

Peta Pikiran

Video Tanya Jawab

What are the real life Tony Stark glasses?
They are the first full holographic augmented reality glasses developed by Meta, resulting from 10 years of research.
How could generative AI change social media?
It may lead to more engaging content creation, allowing users to personalize experiences and increasing the presence of AI-generated content.
What is the main goal of the holographic glasses?
To create a more natural and social computing experience, moving beyond traditional devices towards a ubiquitous interface.
Why is connection with people important?
It's fundamental for emotional well-being, and technology aims to enhance this connection, especially among those who are geographically apart.
What is the significance of AI in human interaction?
AI has the potential to help articulate emotions and enhance communication, though it should not replace the value of genuine human struggle and connection.

Lihat lebih banyak ringkasan video

Dapatkan akses instan ke ringkasan video YouTube gratis yang didukung oleh AI!

Teks

Gulir Otomatis:

00:00:00
I'd love to start with these. 10 years of work right there. Someone on your team called these
00:00:04
the real life Tony Stark glasses. Very hard to make each one of these... That makes me feel
00:00:08
incredibly optimistic... In a world where AI gets smarter and smarter... This is probably
00:00:11
going to be the next major platform after phones... I miss hugging my mom. Yeah haptics
00:00:16
is hard... How does generative AI change how social media feels?... We haven't found
00:00:21
the end yet... The average American has fewer friends now than they did 15 years ago. Why
00:00:26
do you think that's happening? I mean there's a lot going on to to unpack there...
00:00:33
I'm about to interview Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg. There are not
00:00:41
that many people with more power over what our future might look like. Nearly half the total human
00:00:47
population now uses Meta products and I just tested some of their new tech that feels like
00:00:52
science fiction. This is crazy! Mark Zuckerberg and the team at Meta are imagining a future that billions
00:01:00
of other people might actually end up living in. So my goal for this conversation is to try to figure
00:01:05
out what that future really looks like. To paint a picture of the future Mark Zuckerberg is trying to
00:01:10
build so that you can decide for yourself what you think of it. Welcome to the first episode of our
00:01:15
new series, Huge Conversations
00:01:23
Hey, good to meet you! Thanks for doing this. Yeah looking forward
00:01:26
to it. Awesome. I'd love to tell you what my goal is of this conversation. Go for it. We have a called
00:01:34
huge if true which is this very optimistic about science and technology and the potential futures
00:01:39
that we can build and in every episode we're sort of exploring what does it look like if you play a
00:01:45
certain technological future out and so my goal in this conversation is to try to help people
00:01:52
see the future that you're imagining when you're building the products that you and the Meta team
00:01:57
are building. What are you imagining this looks like in future? How are you imagining people use
00:02:01
this? All of that. Cool. All right awesome. So I'd love to start with these. Let's do it. 10 years
00:02:09
of work right there! I got to demo them a little bit earlier today. I heard someone on your team
00:02:15
call these the real life Tony Stark glasses? We're getting there. But I'd love to just hear in your
00:02:20
voice what are these? Well these are the first full holographic augmented reality glasses I think that
00:02:29
exist in the world. We've made I think it's a a few thousand or something right. Very hard to
00:02:37
make each one of these but this is the culmination of 10 years of research and and development that
00:02:43
we've done to basically miniaturize all the computing that you need to have glasses not a
00:02:53
headset but glasses that can put full holograms into the world with a wide field of view. So you
00:03:00
can imagine sort of in the future we'd be having a version of this conversation where you know maybe
00:03:06
I or you are not even here it's like one of us is physically here and the other one is here as a as
00:03:10
kind of a full body hologram and it's not just a video call you can actually interact you can
00:03:14
do things I mean in the the demo we had the you know ping pong and games and things like that but
00:03:20
I mean you could you can interact you can work together you can you know play poker play chests
00:03:24
whatever like the holographic cards holographic board game. I just think it's going to be wild.
00:03:29
it's going to remake I think so many different fields that we think about today from how we work
00:03:36
and productivity to a lot of things around science a lot of things around education entertainment fun
00:03:43
gaming. But this is just the beginning you know this is the first version, it's a
00:03:48
prototype version that we've made in order to develop the next version which is hopefully
00:03:54
going to be the consumer one that we sell to a lot of people. Why build these? Well I think
00:03:59
it's going to be the next major computing platform. So if you look at like the grand arc of computing
00:04:04
over time you've you've gone from like main frames to computers that basically like live
00:04:11
on you know your desk or on a tower to phones that you have in your hand that you basically
00:04:17
like you know can take with you everywhere that you want but it's it's pretty unnatural right it
00:04:21
takes you away from the world around you and. I think that the trend in computing is it gets more
00:04:28
ubiquitous it gets more natural and it just gets more social right so you want to be able
00:04:34
to interact with people in the world around you and I think that this is probably going to be
00:04:38
the next major platform after phones. I'll give these to you. These are the clear ones that show
00:04:44
all the... The whole thing is a special edition and this is like a really special edition. There's
00:04:48
not a single millimeter of of space. You know everything in here from the micro projectors that
00:05:00
um basically shoot light into the wave guides right it's a special type of display system. I
00:05:06
mean these aren't normal displays like you have in a phone or a TV or computer like the type of
00:05:11
displays that people have been building for decades. It's a waveguide system. The projector
00:05:15
that's shooting light basically goes into these nano etchings across the wave guide that are what
00:05:23
catches and creates the holograms. In order to synchronize that with your where you're looking
00:05:30
there's eye tracking and little cameras, they illuminate your eyes and then of course
00:05:35
there's all the basic stuff that you need all the computing, the batteries to power the whole thing,
00:05:41
microphones, the speakers because it needs to be able to play audio and speak with you and the
00:05:48
cameras and sensors to see things around you in the world so that way when it's placing holograms
00:05:53
in the world it can do that in the right place and understand where you are so that probably
00:05:58
is still not covering everything because there's a lot of things that need to go into syncing up
00:06:03
the holographic images between the two displays because you don't just have a single display
00:06:08
like you have in a phone or TV you have two and it moves around and you know physical things
00:06:15
are hard and need to be synced up. There's also the radio that has to communicate with your other
00:06:19
computing devices to do heavier computing um and the wrist based neural interface that you probably
00:06:25
got to try out. We kind of miniaturized all of this and fit it into uh you know normal looking pair of
00:06:31
glasses which is... you know when I told the team that we were going to do this 10 years ago you
00:06:38
know people weren't sure if we were going to be able to but I think you not only we're going
00:06:42
to be able to do this but I think we're going to be able to get it cheaper and higher quality and
00:06:46
even even smaller and more stylish over time. So I think this is going to be a pretty wild future.
00:06:51
There are so many versions of trying to get a similar idea of digital objects in physical
00:06:57
space. I'm thinking of for example of glasses that have heads up displays where it's headlocked and
00:07:05
it's moving with my eyes, glasses that are really creating digital objects in physical space that
00:07:10
don't move as I move, I'm thinking of these, I'm also thinking of the Snapchat Spectacles that they
00:07:16
just announced, then on the other hand there are headsets like the Quest and also like the Apple
00:07:22
Vision Pro that seem to fall into a different category. I'm curious how you would organize this
00:07:26
landscape for people and how you think about people using these tools in their real lives
00:07:31
in the near future? Yeah so when we were getting started on this about 10 years ago I thought that
00:07:36
something like this was going to be the ultimate product for everyone. Right you get to you know
00:07:41
normal looking pair of glasses and we'll continue improving that that can have full holographic
00:07:46
images. I think it's super powerful and it is sort of the science fiction future that
00:07:51
I think we all hope to get to. On the journey we took a few other approaches as well um to help us
00:07:59
develop towards that including building glasses that don't have displays to try to learn. Just
00:08:06
take a stylish pair of glasses today and put as much technology into it as you can but really
00:08:11
focus on the form factor and that's the Ray Ban Meta glasses and it's doing really well and
00:08:16
initially we thought that that was sort of intro product for us to learn how to build this but one
00:08:23
of the things that's clear now is you're going to be able to make that product a lot more affordable
00:08:29
than this probably permanently. So I actually think that there are going to be a bunch of different of
00:08:35
these paths that we've taken are going to be kind of permanent product lines that people
00:08:40
will choose. I think you'll see display-less glasses like the Ray Ban Metas continue to get better and
00:08:45
better, great for AI, no display but you can talk to it, it can talk back. I think there's going to
00:08:51
be something in between these that's basically a heads up display, so it's not a 70° field of view,
00:08:57
maybe it's a 20° or 30 degree field of view, so that's not going to be what you want for
00:09:03
putting kind of a full hologram of a person or interacting with the world around you but it's
00:09:08
going to be great for you know when you're talking to AI, not just having voice but also being able
00:09:12
to see what it's saying or being able to text someone with your wrist-based neural interface and
00:09:18
then have their text show up rather than having it read to you, which is, we read faster than we
00:09:22
can listen or getting directions right or just being able to search for information get all that.
00:09:28
So there's a lot of value for heads up display that will be somewhat more expensive than the
00:09:32
display-less but somewhat cheaper than this. Then I think you're going to get this. It's going
00:09:38
to be probably the most premium and and expensive of glasses products but hopefully still something
00:09:46
that you know like a computer is generally accessible to most people in the world but I think
00:09:51
that there are going to be all of those and I I think people will like them. I also think that
00:09:55
the headsets that people are using around mixed reality will continue to be a thing too because
00:10:01
no matter how good we get at miniaturizing the tech for this you're just going to be
00:10:04
able to fit more compute into a full headset. Fundamentally our mission is not you know build
00:10:11
something that is advanced and only a few people can use, we want to take it you the last mile and
00:10:17
do all the innovation to get it to everyone. We you know just shipped or announced Quest 3S,
00:10:22
the new mixed reality headset where we basically are delivering high quality mixed reality for $299.
00:10:30
I was really proud last year when we delivered Quest 3, the first kind of really high quality
00:10:36
high resolution color mixed reality device for $500, right it was like, it's like a fraction of
00:10:42
the cost of of what the competitors are doing and I think it's actually higher quality in a
00:10:46
lot of ways, and now we've just doubled down on that. So I think that they're all actually going
00:10:52
to end up being important long-term product lines: display-less, heads up display, full holographic
00:10:59
AR, full headsets. I think that they're all going to be important. Yeah. If you play out the future
00:11:06
of not just the hardware that we've been talking about so Meta Ray Bans, Quest, Orion, but also
00:11:16
the Llama models, if everything goes according to you and the teams wildest dreams, I'd love for
00:11:23
you to just begin to describe what that feels like. I mean I think that there are two primary values
00:11:28
that we're trying to bring. On the AR and kind of mixed reality side, the main value we're trying to
00:11:34
bring is this feeling of presence .Right so there's something that I think is just really deep about
00:11:39
being physically present with another person that you don't get from any other technology today and
00:11:45
I think that's the thing when people have a very visceral reaction to experiencing virtual or mixed
00:11:51
reality what they're really reacting to is that they actually for the first time with technology
00:11:56
feel a sense of presence like they're in a place with the person and that's super powerful. I
00:12:02
focused on designing social apps and experiences for 20 years that's sort of like the Holy Grail
00:12:08
of that is being able to build a technology platform that delivers this like deep sense of
00:12:13
of social presence. The other big track is around personalized AI and for that and that's sort of
00:12:20
where Llama and Meta AI and all those things are going. There's all this development that's going
00:12:25
into making the models smarter and smarter over time but I think where this is going to get
00:12:31
really compelling is when it's personalized for you and in order for it to be personalized for you
00:12:38
it has to have context and understand what's going on in your life both kind of at a global level and
00:12:44
like what's physically happening around you right now and in order to do that I think that glasses
00:12:49
are going to be the ideal form factor because they're positioned on your face in a way where
00:12:53
they can let them see what you see and hear what you hear which are the two most important senses
00:12:58
that we use for for kind of taking information and context about the world. I think that this is
00:13:03
all going to be kind of really deep and profound stuff but it's basically those two things: It's
00:13:07
this feeling of presence and this capability of really personalized intelligence that can
00:13:12
help you. I'd love to talk about each of those two things. The first on presence, I owe a lot
00:13:20
to being able to connect with people online. Right this job that I have is by definition that, also with
00:13:25
my family. My parents don't live anywhere close to me. I video call them a lot and when I think
00:13:31
about the progress of technology like this in a timeline from the telegram to the telephone
00:13:39
to video call to some feeling of presence with another person who's feels like they're right
00:13:45
there in front of me, that makes me feel incredibly optimistic. I would love a future where like I can
00:13:51
lose in Scrabble to my mom and feel like she's really there in front of me. Yeah and it feels like
00:13:57
we're not that far away from something - I agree! - that persuades my brain that that's happening. Yeah
00:14:01
totally. And also I miss hugging my mom right like that never goes away. Yeah haptics is hard. Yeah and
00:14:12
so my question is about that it's about this this feeling of like it's hard
00:14:16
for me to imagine um a future where real physical presence is not different and special in some way
00:14:25
where I don't miss literally hugging my mom and I'm curious how you think about the
00:14:33
parts of human connection that are eye contact and physical touch and things that our ape brains
00:14:41
value for connection with other people. Yeah well eye contact I think we're going to get to a lot before
00:14:47
the the touch part. For haptics I do think we'll make progress on that but it's it's obviously
00:14:53
there's a spectrum there too from kind of hands which is where if you you draw out the kind
00:15:01
of like homunculus version of a person in terms of like what are what are our kind of sensory you
00:15:05
know what what's like the majority of what we're sensing it's like yeah yeah so I think being
00:15:10
able to do that for your hands is probably the most important place to start and you have a rough
00:15:16
version of that with controllers today. I think that that'll get even more over time. We have this
00:15:21
demo playing pingpong where you have a controller where as the digital ball hits the ping pong
00:15:27
paddle you feel it hit the as if it's hitting the ping pong paddle wherever it is so you actually
00:15:31
have a sense of like where it's it's hitting the the the paddle so I think that was that
00:15:36
was just a wild demo so I think we'll get some of that the most extreme version of this is wanting
00:15:41
force feedback right so I mean like for doing a lot of sports right it's it's like okay we can kind of
00:15:47
do a good approximation of like boxing today or you get like good feedback on your hands but it
00:15:54
would be hard to do a virtual reality version of Jiu-Jitsu where you're like grappling with someone and
00:15:59
you need like real kind of force feedback on that so that's probably like the hardest thing
00:16:04
right to go do but I think we'll get there. You know I think like most science fiction it's
00:16:11
not this binary thing that you just like wake up one day and we're like oh we've realized all the
00:16:14
dreams but but I I do think that these platforms are going to be the first time that I think that
00:16:20
there's a realistic sense of presence in all the ways that that's special to people for
00:16:29
most things that people want to do which are not the most physical ones and even some of the basic
00:16:33
physical ones I think we'll get. But then there's a long tale of other stuff I mean smell is also
00:16:38
really important for people yeah right it's I think it's disproportionately important for
00:16:42
memories and that's not really a thing that I think in the next few years we're going to
00:16:49
have in any of these devices I mean that's a very difficult and challenging thing on its own. What is
00:16:55
the piece of that that you feel most interested in, that you keep coming back to in your mind? This has
00:17:01
the frustrating property to develop that the sense of presence is almost like when you're
00:17:07
designing something that that's sort of trying to artificially deliver it you're delivering
00:17:12
an illusion to a person and more than any one thing that provides a sense of presence it's
00:17:20
actually more the case that any one thing done wrong breaks the sense of presence. You kind
00:17:24
of know that you're interacting with technology but it's so convincing that um that you just kind
00:17:33
of go along with it. You're like okay yeah no this person feels like it feel like they're there right.
00:17:37
When I did that pingpong demo I like at the end of it I dropped the pingpong paddle on the virtual
00:17:44
table and it shattered so that was not the best for for our internal development but
00:17:50
like that's winning in our in our development right it's like when when you feel like something
00:17:55
is is kind of so realistic that you you're just convinced that um that it's there now and there
00:18:01
are a lot of things that can break that right so I think a a field of view that's too low right so
00:18:06
something feels real but then you turn your head and it's not there um latency read physics that
00:18:12
don't behave like realistic physics. It also is interesting in some ways what people can accept
00:18:19
as physically real even though it's not right so like we've done a ton of work on avatars we
00:18:25
we have this whole work stream on Kodak avatars to do these photo avatars and it's I think it's
00:18:30
going to be incredbly compelling and people are going to love it but one of the things I found
00:18:36
interesting is the ability to mix photorealistic and expressive kind of the cartoony avatars with
00:18:42
photorealistic worlds and kind of more cartoony computer game type worlds so you can have the
00:18:49
a Kodak kind of photorealistic avatar of a person in what is clearly like a video game
00:18:54
or cartoon world and people are generally pretty fine with that it's like okay that
00:18:58
that feels pretty good and similarly having a photorealistic world but good increasingly
00:19:06
good kind of cartoon avatars as long as the avatars move in a way that feels authentic to
00:19:13
the person you're interacting with it actually feels pretty good you know it's when you look at
00:19:17
a 2d still frame of it some of the stuff can look a little bit silly and and we've certainly
00:19:22
you know had had a our share of memes around that but um but when you're in there you know and
00:19:27
you you've played around with lot of the stuff it feels realistic because it's basically mimicking
00:19:32
the kind of authentic mannerisms of of a person that you're interacting with and even if it's not
00:19:37
a Kodak photo realistic avatar if it's kind of a more cartoony expressive one so I I think that
00:19:42
that's it's very interesting to see kind of which pieces you need to unlock and what where you
00:19:48
just need to be like very technically excellent and consistent but it's um this isn't a space
00:19:52
where it's like you deliver one thing and it's good this is like there's a wide breth of things
00:19:58
that you need to nail and then have it all come together and that's why these are you know 10 year
00:20:03
projects. It seems like an interesting way to learn about the human brain and what we actually care
00:20:11
about with respect to what feels real. I was wondering about, there was this moment in an
00:20:17
interview that you did with Lex Friedman, you quoted research that says that the average American has
00:20:25
fewer friends now than they did 15 years ago and I was so interested in that because
00:20:30
it seems like if we want to get to a world where there's more human connection this is the trend
00:20:36
that we're going to have to grapple with and just to give some data on this in the American Time Use
00:20:43
Survey over the last 20 years the amount of time American adults spend socializing in person has
00:20:49
dropped by nearly 30%. For ages 15 to 24 according to the Surgeon General it's nearly 70%. and I
00:20:58
look at that data and I think to myself well maybe if we're all socializing digitally that doesn't
00:21:03
matter so much maybe there's a future where that's actually fine but there's also data that suggest
00:21:08
that we're struggling somewhat. The number of Americans who say that they don't have a single
00:21:15
close friend - yeah it's really sad - that share has jumped from 3% to 12% in the last 30 years. It feels to
00:21:24
me like with all the tools that we've built for human connection, we're struggling to connect and I'm curious
00:21:33
why do you think that's happening? I mean there's a lot going on to to unpack there. A lot has changed
00:21:43
sort of economically and socially during that period and a lot of those trends go back before
00:21:49
a lot of the modern technology. So I mean this is something that a lot of academics and folks
00:21:54
have have studied but it is an interesting lens to look at this though because I think whenever
00:22:01
you're talking about building digital types of connection one of the first questions that
00:22:07
you get is is that going to replace the physical connection and my answer to that especially in the
00:22:16
case of something like this is that no because people already don't have as much connection
00:22:25
as they would like to have. It's not like this is replacing some sort of better physical connection
00:22:30
that they would have otherwise had. It's that the average person would like to have 10 friends and
00:22:37
they have two right or three and there's just more demand to socialize than what people are
00:22:45
able to do given the current construct and giving people the ability to be present with people who
00:22:52
are in other places physically just seems like it will unlock more. It's not going to make it
00:22:56
so, if I have glasses, it's not going to make it that I spend less time with my wife, it's going
00:23:00
to make it so that I spend more time with you know my sister who lives across the country. And
00:23:06
that's, I think that's good. I think people need that. As for the rest, I
00:23:12
I think we could probably spend a multi-hour podcast just going into all of the different
00:23:19
kind of socioeconomic political dynamics that are going on but none of the trends that I've seen
00:23:28
does it seem like the primary thing that's going on is that because people are interacting online
00:23:33
they're now not interacting with their with people physically. Now certainly I think you
00:23:42
you I do interact with people online who I also like to interact with physically but and I think
00:23:48
that that's kind of like a combination um like more combined richer relationship that you have
00:23:54
overall but I think that there's a lot going on with the loss of of kind of social capital and
00:24:01
connections that really predates a lot of the modern technology. The goal of what, I'm what I'm
00:24:08
trying most to learn about is how we can structure the technologies that we use in the future to get
00:24:15
toward this future I think you're imagining of more human connection in more ways. I'm curious, you
00:24:22
brought up the other big pillar of AI and in some of your conversations, I'm thinking of a conversation
00:24:29
with Tim Ferris in particular, you talked about a lot of different use cases of AI and they seem
00:24:35
to me to fall on somewhat of a spectrum. Like for example you mentioned automatic real-time
00:24:42
translation, like basically the Star Trek Universal translator. We're pretty
00:24:47
much there! Yeah and that's one example on one end of the spectrum where some people might argue
00:24:54
that there is a chance that someone is less likely for example to learn a language because we can all
00:24:59
speak to each other in real time in different languages. I think nobody would really argue
00:25:04
that therefore we shouldn't have that kind of universal translator. People still learn Latin and
00:25:08
Greek. Right exactly and so I think that end of the spectrum is something like um technologies
00:25:16
that really measurably unlock our humanity because they remove a struggle between people and then on
00:25:23
the other end of the spectrum there are a lot of educational things for example where the struggle
00:25:27
is kind of the point right? Like it's like building a muscle. I can think of so many times
00:25:32
in my life where like the reason why I was doing something was not the output it was the fact that
00:25:36
I was trying so hard to do it. There's one example in the Tim Ferris interview where you talked
00:25:41
about your kids struggling to articulate themselves emotionally and adults very much had
00:25:48
the same problem and you talked about AI as a way to help them articulate those emotions. Yeah and
00:25:54
I thought about all of the many times in my life where I have struggled to articulate my emotions
00:26:00
and how I really could have used some help in those moments and I also found myself thinking
00:26:04
about the times when that was really building a muscle where like the act of struggling to
00:26:09
communicate with someone and understand what they wanted from me was was important to my development.
00:26:14
And so my question is if you think about that as a spectrum between things that are really
00:26:19
important to our humanity where and the struggle being removed is helpful versus things where the
00:26:25
struggle is the point and it unlocks something about our humanity and is important
00:26:31
to preserve like building a muscle, how do you draw the line between those things and how do
00:26:37
we ensure that the muscles that we're building for this future are stronger and not weaker? Yeah it's
00:26:42
interesting I mean I think we're always going to find new things to struggle with and I mean it's
00:26:47
you can always get better at communicating with other people and kind of expressing yourself and
00:26:52
understanding other people so having a tool that can help you do that better isn't going to mean
00:26:56
that like oh now we perfectly understand every you know it's I mean I think the maybe one
00:27:05
of the most functional aspects of this you're already seeing a lot of these AI models really
00:27:09
help people with coding right like a generation ago um before I was getting started a lot of
00:27:14
coding was like really low-level system software and you know then by the time that I got into
00:27:20
it there was a little bit of that but um you you can make websites pretty easily make apps pretty
00:27:26
easily and I think in 20 years or a lot sooner than that you're going to basically be in a
00:27:34
world where kids will be able to just describe the things that they want and build incredibly complex
00:27:39
pieces of software so it's um in that world are kids going to be not struggling I I don't
00:27:47
think so I think that they're going to be just expressing their creativity and and it'll it'll
00:27:51
be this kind of constant iterative feedback loop around like okay like yeah I you know took a few
00:27:59
minutes to describe this thing and like yeah this whole like amazing virtual world was created that
00:28:05
I can have see on my glasses or whatever but like these things are not exactly what I want them to
00:28:10
be so now I need to like go back and edit them it just I don't know I think that there's always
00:28:15
more. Another way to get this - it's one of the things that I think makes makes people so good. It just
00:28:21
there's there's always more to do. We'll always find the struggle? Yeah. Another way to get at this
00:28:25
is if you if you play this out to make the tools even better in like 10 years let's say
00:28:30
your kids are in high school are there ways that you would want them using AI because you think it
00:28:35
would accelerate them intellectually and ways that you would advocate for them not to use it or
00:28:42
things that you would have concerns about? I mean I think that there's some things that you need
00:28:46
to be able to do yourself. I think that's a lot of the basic fear that people have around this is
00:28:52
that while we're building these amazing tools we get away from this self-confidence and ability of
00:29:01
being able to do like this basic stuff yourself so it's like all right you have a calculator but it's
00:29:08
still good to be able to do kind of basic math in your head because there are a lot of things that
00:29:13
come up throughout the day that you just want to have a general numeracy around right that often
00:29:19
they're not expressed in numerical terms but just in terms of understanding trends or understanding
00:29:25
arguments that people are making, you you kind of need to understand the shape of how numbers come
00:29:30
together and so I think one of the big debates is like should we still teach our kids to program
00:29:35
computers even though you're going to have these tools in the future that are just so much
00:29:42
more powerful than anything that we have now to produce incredibly complicated pieces of software.
00:29:49
I think the answer to that is probably yes because I think teaching someone how to code
00:29:55
is teaching them a way to think rigorously and that even if they're not doing most of the code
00:30:01
production I think it's important that you kind of have the ability to think in that way and I think
00:30:06
it's going to just make you generally a better thinker and better person so yeah maybe that's
00:30:14
like this generation's version of calculators it's like so you you want to you want to use the
00:30:18
calculator but you'll also want to be able to generally do without it. Other ones like language
00:30:25
I don't know I mean different people can come out I think this is one of the interesting
00:30:28
questions about parenting these days is like is is just kind of like what what's important to
00:30:34
teach your your kids and in an era where so much is going to change over the the time that they're
00:30:40
even in school. Language I think you can make similar arguments. I think there's a lot of it's
00:30:45
like it's probably going to be less functionally relevant in the future to learn multiple languages
00:30:49
but it sort of helps you think in different ways, you know I found from the languages that I've
00:30:54
studied that a lot of it you learn about the structure of your own language, you can
00:31:00
you know you also learn about the culture right because so much of how things are expressed in
00:31:04
different places is tied to the nuance and the history of kind of what how so I think
00:31:09
like you that's all valuable and interesting stuff to get into but then I don't know at the
00:31:15
same time we only have so many hours in the day so people need to prioritize what they're going
00:31:18
to learn and it may be that okay in a world with perfect translation which by the way we basically
00:31:23
just announced on the Ray Ban Metas that now you're going to be able to just like you go to
00:31:28
countries yeah we're starting out with just a few languages but we'll roll it out to more and you
00:31:33
know you'll be you could be traveling anywhere and you have your glasses and they just translate in
00:31:36
real time in your ear. So it's wild, yeah so I think people are going to need to choose what
00:31:42
what what they want to focus on going forward. How do the developments that we've been talking
00:31:48
about in AI intersect with social media and the platforms that most people use today? There's a
00:31:54
future where there's images and generated text and maybe AI influencers. How does generative
00:32:03
AI change how social media feels in the future? Yeah I mean I think that that's a really
00:32:10
deep one. You know there's already been one big shift which is that social media started
00:32:16
out as people primarily interacting with their friends and now it is you know at least half of
00:32:23
the content is basically people interacting with creators or content that's not created
00:32:28
by people who they kind of personally know so we sort sort of already have that paradigm and
00:32:36
I think AI is probably going to accelerate that. It will give all these people additional tools right
00:32:42
so your friends will create kind of funnier memes and more interesting content um that'll come from
00:32:49
a lot of different ways. I think some of it will be okay your friends have glasses and they capture
00:32:54
a bunch of stuff and before they might have not been able bble to edit it to make it interesting
00:32:59
or maybe it was just too much work or they didn't even realize that they captured something amazing
00:33:02
but now the AI is like hey I like made this thing for you out of your content um it's like okay
00:33:07
that's awesome like people will enjoy that. Creators obviously kind of much more specialized skills
00:33:15
are going to be able to use even more advanced AI tools to make more compelling content but then I
00:33:20
think that there will be a bunch of kind of green field type stuff where maybe in the future there
00:33:27
will be content that is purely generated by AI by the system personalized for you maybe it's
00:33:35
summarizing things that are out there that that are going to be interesting maybe it's um just
00:33:41
producing something funny that makes you laugh this is going to be like a very kind of deep zone
00:33:46
that there's a lot to to experiment with. I think there are going to be AI creators as well,
00:33:52
as creators building AI versions of themselves, I mean that's a thing that we just showed too
00:33:58
at Connect is basically I mean if you're a Creator one of the big challenges is
00:34:02
like all right there are only so many hours in the day and your community probably has a
00:34:08
nearly unlimited demand to interact with you and you want to interact with them because you're
00:34:11
trying to grow your community. I mean that's both socially and from a business perspective that's
00:34:16
sort of you know growing the community is an important part of what every creator does so
00:34:20
okay if we can make it so that each creator can basically make an like an AI artifact
00:34:28
that their community can interact with people be clear it's not the actual creator themselves but
00:34:32
it's almost like a piece of digital art that you're producing like an interactive sculpture
00:34:37
or something that it's like it's like you train it to here's the context that I wanted to have
00:34:41
here's the topics I wanted to communicate on here's stuff that I wanted to stay away
00:34:45
from you're giving your community something to interact with when you can't be there to to kind
00:34:51
of answer all the questions and I think that's going to be super compelling so there's like
00:34:57
these interesting things but I think it's I AI it's kind of like the internet in a way where
00:35:04
it's probably going to change almost every field and almost every feature of every application that
00:35:11
we use um it seems sort of hyperbolic to say that but I do think that's true and it's just hard to
00:35:18
sort of enumerate all the different things up front but I think that over the next 5 to 10
00:35:23
years we're just going to explore the impacts in each of these areas and it's going to be
00:35:27
like an amazing amount of innovation and really exciting. I feel two things simultaneously when
00:35:32
you say that. I feel both like I really want to be optimistic about the future of these
00:35:38
platforms and I obviously have gained so much from an enormous pace of change right like everything
00:35:45
that we're doing now and what I actually feel is worried. I feel some specific concerns around the
00:35:54
way that you know I might communicate with an audience and the way that they might respond to
00:35:57
that or the way that human communication might change but also more generalized just sort of
00:36:02
fear of the pace of change and and worry and I don't think I'm alone in that feeling. Yeah and
00:36:07
you're supposed to be the optimist! I know! And I'm curious like how you talk to people who feel that
00:36:14
way. What concerns do you feel are most legitimate and what do you feel most misunderstood? I think
00:36:21
the pace of change is always a concerning thing right it's there is a lot of uncertainty
00:36:30
about how how things will go in the future and we're all going to get really amazing new tools
00:36:35
to do both our hobbies and our jobs and they'll make it so we can do better work and
00:36:44
have better lives but at least on the professional side it's going to be our responsibility to keep
00:36:48
up with that or else it's going to be difficult for us to compete with other people who are
00:36:53
doing a good job of kind of keeping up with the new trends. So I get it. I mean I think
00:36:58
you know especially in the you know line of of work of being a creator and it's a very sort of
00:37:04
competitive space, I don't think that like creators necessarily think about it as competitive but it
00:37:07
is right it's like it's you know and um and so I get it. I think that this is going to make it so
00:37:16
that like the quality of work that people produce and how interesting it is and how much they can
00:37:20
communicate and like really efficiently is is just going to kind of go through the roof but
00:37:28
but when you're staring down a set of changes like you know that there's some big change coming and
00:37:35
you don't know what it is that's always a time of anxiety so I get it. If I take my creator hat
00:37:42
off and I'm just a person who is youngish starting out my career-ish, starting out building a family,
00:37:51
how would you advise someone like me to prepare well for the future that we're headed toward
00:38:00
to be able to learn new skills now or just think about this future in an educated way? Yeah I mean
00:38:09
I just think maintaining curiosity about things is is important. I do think we can overstate to what
00:38:16
extent the next 10 years is going to be sort of different from the last 10 or 15. I mean a ton of
00:38:21
stuff changed over the last 10 or 15 years too. It's not like this is the only time in history
00:38:25
where there's some technology it's going to make it so there's new opportunities and things change
00:38:30
the internet coming into maturity and everyone having smartphones has already rewired things
00:38:36
dramatically and I mean maybe the next period will be a somewhat bigger change or maybe it won't I
00:38:44
think it'll feel different to different people but I don't think this is like going from zero to
00:38:51
one it's not like okay everything's just kind of been normal and now like now it's about to change
00:38:55
it's like the technology of evolves over time and and like the opportunities that we have evolve and
00:39:01
improve and I think that's like the people who do well I think are are people who are generally
00:39:06
curious about it and and dig in and and try to use it to live better lives rather than the
00:39:14
people who who basically you know try to fight it in in some way. One thing that I really want to ask
00:39:23
you about is open source. Yeah. I think imagine that we're talking to an audience that has maybe heard
00:39:30
that term but doesn't have any real idea of how that might impact them in the development of AI.
00:39:37
How would you explain the reasonable debate that people in your field are having about this
00:39:41
right now? Well I think there are two pieces. I mean so what does open source mean? It means that people
00:39:47
can build a lot of different things right so at a high level I look at the vision that a bunch of
00:39:52
companies have right so Open AI, Google, they're building an AI right like one AI that I think
00:39:59
in general they're like okay this is going to be it's like you're going to use they think you're
00:40:03
going to use Gemini or ChatGPT for like all the different things that you want to interact with
00:40:07
and at a high level that's just not how I think the world is going to go. I think we're going to
00:40:11
have a lot of different AI systems just like we're going to have we have a lot of different apps.
00:40:17
I think in the future every business just like they have a website and a phone number and an
00:40:22
email address and a social media account is also going to have an AI that can interact with with
00:40:28
their customers to help them sell things to help them do support. I think a lot of creators will
00:40:34
have their own AIs right I think like a lot of people will interact with with a bunch of
00:40:39
different things. There's a question of okay do you want a future that's fundamentally kind of very
00:40:45
concentrated and where you're interacting with kind of one system for everything or do you want
00:40:50
one where a lot of different people are building a lot of different AIs and systems just kind
00:40:56
of like you probably didn't want there to be you know just one app or just one website. It's like a
00:41:00
richer world when there's a diversity of different things so that's one piece is is just giving
00:41:05
people the ability to build it themselves and what open source does it makes it that everyone
00:41:09
can take and modify the model and build stuff on top of it which is different from the kind
00:41:15
of closed and centralized approach. The safety debate is a specific part of this which is in a
00:41:26
world where AI gets smarter and smarter, what's the way that we have the highest chance of of having a
00:41:35
a a kind of positive future and and not having a lot of the safety concerns? And I think some
00:41:40
people think that if we keep the model closed and don't give it to a lot of developers that
00:41:48
should make it safer because then you don't get bad developers doing bad things with the model.
00:41:59
Historically I think what we've seen with open source is actually the opposite which is that
00:42:05
this is not the first open source project right I mean this is obviously this has been a thing in
00:42:09
the industry for decades and I think what we've traditionally seen is that open source software
00:42:14
is safer and more secure largely because you put it out there more people can scrutinize it because
00:42:20
they can see all parts of the system and then there are inevitably issues with any software
00:42:27
there are bugs there are security issues and initially with open source people thought hey if
00:42:32
you're putting the software out there and there are holes in it isn't everyone just going to go
00:42:36
exploit those holes and especially the bad guys but it turned out that it sort of in this
00:42:41
counterintuitive way that by making by adding more scrutiny to the systems the holes became apparent
00:42:49
quicker and then were fixed and then people roll out a new version just like we roll out
00:42:52
a new version of our models right Llama 3, Llama 3.1, Llama 3.2 everyone upgrades, so I think the
00:42:59
same thing is going to happen here I think it's sort of this counterintuitive thing where even
00:43:04
though I I think there's some concern around all right are bad guys going to do bad things with
00:43:12
these models. I actually think you just get a kind of smarter and safer model for everyone the more
00:43:18
it's rolled out and the more kind of scrutiny is on it and then part of that is we get
00:43:23
feedback and we make the model safer so that is we roll it out to to more people it's safer
00:43:27
for more people to use. So I think that the history of open source in the software industry generally
00:43:33
would suggest that open source is going to lead to a more prosperous and safer future. Our show
00:43:39
is called Huge If True and what I mean by that is kind of testing the most optimistic non-obvious
00:43:46
thing and so my question to you is what is the biggest open genuine question on your mind right
00:43:51
now? In which field? You're in so many! I am particularly curious about the combination of
00:44:07
AI and hardware but I realize that we've covered a lot so I'm curious the direction you'd take this
00:44:12
on a question that occupies you right now. Gosh I mean I think maybe one that's a little more
00:44:17
AI specific is there a current set of methods that seem to be scaling very well right so with
00:44:25
past AI architecture you could kind of feed an AI system a certain amount of data and and use
00:44:32
a certain amount of compute but eventually it hit a plateau and one of the interesting things
00:44:37
about these new transformer based architectures over the last you know 5 to 10 years is that we
00:44:44
haven't found the end yet. So that leads to this dynamic where Llama 3 you know we could train on
00:44:52
you know 10 to 20,000 gpus, Llama 4 we could train on you know more more than 100,000 gpus, Llama 5
00:44:59
we can plan to scale even further and there's just an interesting question of how far that goes. It's
00:45:06
totally possible that at some point we just like hit a limit and just like previous systems there's
00:45:11
an asymptote and it doesn't keep on growing but it's also possible that that limit is not going
00:45:17
to happen anytime soon and that we're going to be able to keep on just building more clusters and
00:45:24
generating more you know synthetic data train the systems and that they're just going to keep on
00:45:30
getting more and more useful for people for quite a while to come and it's a really big and high
00:45:36
stakes question I think for for the company is because we're basically making these bets on how
00:45:42
much infrastructure to build out for the future and this is like hundreds of billions of dollars
00:45:48
of infrastructure so like I'm clearly betting that this is going to keep scaling for a while
00:45:54
but it's one of the big questions I think in the field because it is possible that it doesn't. You
00:45:59
know that obviously would lead to a very different world where it's I mean I'm sure people still
00:46:04
figure it out eventually just need to make some new fundamental improvements to the architecture
00:46:09
in some way but that might be a somewhat longer trajectory for okay maybe you know the the kind
00:46:15
of fundamental AI advances slow down for a bit and we just take some time to build new products
00:46:21
around this or it could be the case and that's what I'm betting on that the fundamental AI will
00:46:26
just continue advancing for quite a while and that we're going to get both a new set of products that
00:46:31
are just really compelling in all these ways and that the technology landscape and what's
00:46:35
possible will just continue being dynamic over like a 20-year period and that's probably what
00:46:42
I'd guess is going to happen but it I think it's one of the bigger questions in the industry and
00:46:46
kind of for technology across the world today. Is there anything else that you want to say? I
00:46:52
don't know! Awesome. We're good. Amazing yeah thank you so much for doing this. Yeah no thank you...