00:00:01
[music playing]
00:00:02
I don't mean to be
pushing and prodding.
00:00:03
But this is all we've got.
00:00:04
This is her dining room table.
00:00:05
So this is three
feet of cat feces.
00:00:08
Someone reported the
house for the smell.
00:00:10
We've seen all week what
hoarding does to a family.
00:00:13
[crying]
- I can't go in there.
00:00:14
- It's OK.
- I don't blame you.
00:00:15
It's OK.
00:00:18
Do you want to go
to jail on Monday?
00:00:20
If we don't start to
challenge his thinking,
00:00:22
then nothing is
going to be fixed.
00:00:25
Don just changed everything.
00:00:27
Don, you're sabotaging
what we're trying to do here.
00:00:30
So you're saying it's
your way or the highway?
00:01:14
I'm Robin.
00:01:15
And I'm a beautician.
00:01:22
This is my mother
and dad's house.
00:01:29
I started living here in 1988.
00:01:33
It was real nice.
00:01:35
We had it fixed real nice.
00:01:41
My name is Kelly.
00:01:42
And I'm Robin's daughter.
00:01:45
When I moved into the
house, I was about 23.
00:01:49
As I remember, it was
really neatly kept.
00:01:57
I'm Festus.
00:01:58
And I'm Robin's father.
00:02:01
Robin and Kelly moved
here with us in 1988.
00:02:06
We papered and painted and did
a lot of things that my wife
00:02:10
wanted just so and so.
00:02:12
It was like a
little jewel house.
00:02:24
My grandma's
death took a while
00:02:27
to sink in and realize she
wasn't going to be here
00:02:32
to be around.
00:02:36
It took a long
time to get over it.
00:02:50
After my mother died, me and my
dad, we tried to keep it going.
00:02:57
But it just got out of hand.
00:03:03
What happened was it just
kind of creeped up on us.
00:03:07
And there it was.
00:03:08
And we just-- we couldn't
keep a hold of it.
00:03:23
I'm Snuffy.
00:03:24
And I'm Robin's brother.
00:03:27
Someone reported the
house for the smell.
00:03:30
And honestly, why they waited as
long as they did, I don't know.
00:03:35
You didn't have to walk
into the house to smell it.
00:03:38
You could smell it before
you were even on the porch.
00:03:42
It was that bad.
00:03:47
We didn't think it
was anybody's business.
00:03:49
We were going to get it
cleaned up little by little
00:03:51
and take care of everything.
00:03:54
But we just didn't
get it done yet.
00:03:57
We thought the city would be
more lenient than they were.
00:04:01
But it didn't matter if
it was down below zero.
00:04:03
They still wanted us
to get in that house
00:04:05
and get it cleaned up
in a matter of days.
00:04:09
And we just couldn't do it.
00:04:22
Little by little, it just--
00:04:23
it just started getting messy.
00:04:29
We weren't very good
housekeepers, I guess.
00:04:33
Her reaction was
that it's our house.
00:04:35
And it's none of your business.
00:04:40
They had let things in the house
get completely out of hand.
00:04:44
Let the cats take over.
00:04:46
And they had to go somewhere.
00:04:52
She'd take care of the
cats more than herself.
00:05:09
I kind of have an
idea of what it is.
00:05:11
But it might be worse
than I think it is,
00:05:17
having not seen it yet.
00:05:19
It's pretty sad for
me to see her that way.
00:05:23
But I don't know
what to do about it.
00:05:25
And she won't let
me do anything.
00:05:29
At least, she
hasn't in the past.
00:05:35
[insects buzzing]
00:05:40
My name's Ken.
00:05:41
And I'm 52 years old.
00:05:43
And when you've got
this much clutter,
00:05:44
it's hard to do anything.
00:05:49
Hoarding's definitely going to
affect everything in your life.
00:06:05
I'm Noemi.
00:06:06
I'm 32-years-old.
00:06:08
I'm Ken's wife.
00:06:10
He collects everything--
food, clothes.
00:06:16
Anything that people
think is trash,
00:06:18
he thinks that it's valuable.
00:06:23
The stuff that I
put in the trash,
00:06:25
he'll take it out from
the trash and put it
00:06:27
back to where it came from.
00:06:33
I have a court date coming
up within a couple of weeks.
00:06:45
I'm Jim.
00:06:46
I'm the city code
enforcement officer.
00:06:51
His property is filled with
trash, litter, and debris.
00:06:56
We've had complaints of
roaches, mice, vermin coming
00:07:01
from the property onto
the neighbors' property.
00:07:04
He's a good guy, but he
has a huge, huge problem.
00:07:11
I don't think going to
jail makes it better.
00:07:16
I already know that
this is not good for me.
00:07:18
It's not good for my family.
00:07:20
I really don't
want it in my life.
00:07:22
I don't want it.
00:07:28
I'm Don.
00:07:29
I'm Ken's brother.
00:07:32
I think it's absurd that someone
like Ken would go to jail.
00:07:37
He really never hurt anybody.
00:07:38
He never did any
criminal activity.
00:07:40
For them to say that,
it's just insane.
00:07:45
We've written plans for Ken.
00:07:47
You need to do this.
00:07:48
You need to do that.
00:07:49
You need to do something else.
00:07:50
We gave him a copy of the plan.
00:07:53
Nothing got done.
00:07:57
I mean, I can figure it out
logically, what I should do.
00:08:00
But then when I go to
do it, I just can't.
00:08:04
It's, like, someone
else is-- is controlling
00:08:07
your-- your-- your--
00:08:09
your hands and your legs.
00:08:14
My name is Christine.
00:08:16
I'm 25.
00:08:17
And I'm Ken's daughter.
00:08:24
I lived with him
every other week
00:08:26
when I was growing up
until I was about eight.
00:08:31
I did wonder why it was so
difficult for him to clean up
00:08:37
the house and make it a
home for us to live in.
00:08:42
We were very confined by the
small space that was left over
00:08:48
after all the stuff.
00:08:50
There was a turning point where
there were some police officers
00:08:54
that came to the house.
00:08:55
I peeked around from the
hall and they saw me.
00:08:59
And they saw this
mountain of stuff.
00:09:03
And they came in.
00:09:04
And my brother and I were
given into our mom's custody.
00:09:09
I love my family
I'm a serious parent.
00:09:12
And I take that
job very seriously.
00:09:15
But that doesn't mean that
this problem just goes away
00:09:18
because I care about
being a parent.
00:09:26
How can I put my son
into that situation?
00:09:32
I moved out the end of May 2008.
00:09:37
And I want my son to have a good
relationship with his father.
00:09:41
I don't want him growing
up and hating his father
00:09:44
or not having to do
anything with his father.
00:09:47
Because he's a good father.
00:09:50
I would like Kevin and
Noemi to move back in
00:09:52
and, you know, us to be
a family, essentially.
00:09:55
Hoarding is a
legitimate disorder.
00:09:58
People cannot follow these
laws that have this problem.
00:10:01
The greatest fear, I guess,
is that I just can't comply.
00:10:05
If I didn't get cleaned
up, for whatever reason,
00:10:07
then, of course, it's already
been said would be carried out.
00:10:11
That would be the
worst scenario.
00:10:18
It feels real bad
when I walk in here
00:10:21
and see how the house is and
the shape it's gotten into.
00:10:36
It was disgusting.
00:10:39
I couldn't believe anyone could
let any property get that bad.
00:10:49
It's very embarrassing.
00:10:57
Hi, Robin?
00:11:00
I'm Dr. Hale.
00:11:03
You must be Kelly?
00:11:04
Hi, Kelly.
00:11:05
Nice to meet you.
00:11:06
Nice to meet you.
00:11:07
My name's Dr. Lisa Hale.
00:11:08
And I'm a psychologist
specializing
00:11:10
in anxiety spectrum disorders
including compulsive hoarding.
00:11:14
How are you guys
feeling about this?
00:11:16
Not good.
00:11:27
It's hard for me that
my daughter is going
00:11:29
to see the house like it is.
00:11:32
My beautiful accessory here.
00:11:35
She doesn't have any idea
what it's like in here.
00:11:40
So I'm going to go
ahead and go on in.
00:11:45
All right.
00:11:46
Here we go, Robin.
00:11:51
Kelly, what are you--
00:11:55
Robin, hang on.
00:12:00
[crying]
00:12:00
It's OK.
00:12:01
I'm with you.
00:12:02
It's OK.
00:12:05
That was harder than you
thought it would be, even.
00:12:17
Snuffy, I think she's
needing some support right now.
00:12:21
That was harder than
she had thought.
00:12:23
I can't go in there.
00:12:25
I don't blame you.
00:12:26
It's OK.
00:12:26
It's OK.
00:12:28
It's all right.
00:12:29
[crying]
00:12:32
Will you let Mama know?
00:12:34
Mhm.
00:12:35
It'll be all right.
00:12:37
And you can help
her without going in.
00:12:39
That's true.
00:12:40
You being here
is supporting her.
00:12:42
You told me that this morning.
00:12:44
I'm glad you guys
are both here for her.
00:12:46
And I know that was
really, really difficult.
00:12:51
But I think now you can kind
of comprehend where we're at
00:12:54
and what we're doing.
00:12:56
OK.
00:13:05
So what do you see,
Robin, when you--
00:13:08
when you walk in.
00:13:09
Well, I know it needs
a good cleaning.
00:13:11
Yeah.
00:13:12
I would agree with you on that.
00:13:16
Honestly, the odor
was quite overwhelming.
00:13:19
This was clearly unlivable.
00:13:21
My first impression
was I was taken aback.
00:13:25
Can you tell me a
little about this room?
00:13:27
What's-- this was the
living room, or main area?
00:13:30
- Yes.
- OK.
00:13:31
And what is some of that stuff?
00:13:33
Books and--
00:13:34
Pictures on the wall?
00:13:35
My collector plates.
00:13:37
OK.
00:13:38
When Robin walks
into her living room,
00:13:40
her eyes are drawn to
the walls or objects that
00:13:43
have meaning to her.
00:13:45
There is all kinds of
stuff that you can't see.
00:13:50
It's not all trash.
00:13:52
She doesn't see the same
amounts of trash and filth.
00:13:56
And so I see some
bags, a product.
00:14:03
Stuff in here is still
good, still usable.
00:14:09
When you have
compulsive hoarding,
00:14:10
it's very difficult
to let those items go.
00:14:12
Because they seem
perfectly good, useful.
00:14:15
Their brain will think of
a million different ways,
00:14:18
you know, how they're
going to be used.
00:14:20
The reality, the fact that
the items don't get used,
00:14:24
again, is part of that--
00:14:25
that brain process that's just
missing those connections.
00:14:28
And of course, ordinarily, we
would do kind of a whole tour
00:14:31
through the house.
00:14:32
But right now, we're going to
need to get started and make
00:14:34
some pathways and clear before
we can kind of get there.
00:14:38
OK?
00:14:39
How are you feeling about the
process of getting started?
00:14:42
Well, I want to
get it over with.
00:14:44
OK.
00:14:45
I absolutely think that the
precipitant of Robin being
00:14:49
willing to do this
undertaking right now
00:14:52
is solely to be able
to save the house
00:14:55
or have any option
of saving the house.
00:14:57
Otherwise, I really do think the
situation would have continued
00:15:01
indefinitely.
00:15:18
I have a thing against waste.
00:15:20
I don't want to fill the
landfills, you know, with--
00:15:24
with all kinds of things.
00:15:27
I don't like the
junk mail coming.
00:15:29
But I can't stop it.
00:15:30
It's kind of, like,
somebody once a week
00:15:32
just dumping a whole big
trash can full of garbage
00:15:35
on your front lawn.
00:15:44
[knock on door]
00:15:46
- Hello, Ken.
- Hello.
00:15:47
- Nice to finally meet you.
- Dr. Robin.
00:15:49
How are you?
00:15:50
My name is Dr. Robin Zasio.
00:15:51
I'm a licensed
clinical psychologist.
00:15:53
And I specialize in OCD
and compulsive hoarding.
00:15:59
Based on the condition of
the house, it is clear to me
00:16:02
that Ken is a
compulsive hoarder.
00:16:05
I see you don't
have any shoes on.
00:16:08
Are you wanting me
to take my shoes off?
00:16:15
Um, yeah, I try to--
00:16:20
try to not track dirt, you know.
00:16:22
And some places are
actually somewhat clean.
00:16:24
So--
- OK.
00:16:25
OK.
Because it's interesting.
00:16:27
Because I'm looking
at the floor,
00:16:28
and it's-- it's--
it's looking pretty--
00:16:31
pretty bad.
- Yeah.
00:16:32
But that's a new
rug in there that--
00:16:33
that's down.
00:16:34
And--
00:16:40
Do you eat food
in this kitchen?
00:16:43
Well, some of this
food, yeah, I might eat.
00:16:46
You might?
00:16:47
Because, I mean,
my microwave's there.
00:16:48
And this is kind of--
00:16:50
I mean, things have gotten
moved around a little bit.
00:16:51
I'm struck by all
the gnats, also.
00:16:55
I mean, there's-- there's
kind of little swarms of it.
00:16:59
This for you is not
edible food, correct?
00:17:02
There's some that
is actually edible.
00:17:04
So, you know.
00:17:06
So in the midst of all those
gnats walking around there,
00:17:08
you would actually eat
some food out of there.
00:17:09
Well, there's-- there's like
packages of soy sauce right
00:17:13
there.
00:17:14
Those-- those are--
those are fairly new.
00:17:15
Would you say that you have
a tendency to save food perhaps
00:17:20
longer than reasonable?
00:17:23
Well, yeah, I have.
00:17:24
But I think everybody does that.
00:17:27
So this can here?
00:17:29
You would never eat
something like that.
00:17:31
- No.
- OK.
00:17:32
In fact, if you
tried, your mouth
00:17:33
will tell you that it's bad.
00:17:34
I would guess so.
00:17:36
Because we're dealing with,
like, serious black mold
00:17:37
that I can't even believe
I'm picking up, actually.
00:17:40
I don't think it's mold.
It's actually not mold.
00:17:42
OK.
00:17:43
I'm probably an expert with
what's safe and not, actually.
00:17:45
OK.
OK.
00:17:47
We'll get to that.
00:17:48
OK.
00:17:49
This area is part
of the area that's
00:17:50
going to be required to get
cleaned up to be in compliance.
00:17:53
OK.
Sure.
00:17:54
OK?
I'm looking at this here.
00:17:56
It's trash.
00:17:57
This is trash?
00:18:01
So what I'm seeing is that you
do have a vision of things that
00:18:04
need to go.
00:18:06
But what I'm kind of
thinking is that you're
00:18:08
getting stuck being
able to take that step
00:18:11
to throw the stuff away.
00:18:12
I asked him, if he didn't get
any help, what would his plan
00:18:16
be.
00:18:17
And he basically
said, I have no plan.
00:18:19
I would be going to jail.
00:18:23
Additionally, the fact that his
child was taken away from him,
00:18:27
that his wife is
living in an apartment,
00:18:31
it has all been the
perfect storm for him.
00:18:38
My mom was really rundown
from the last time I saw her.
00:18:45
It's really hard to
see her like that.
00:18:50
I think the clean up is going
to go very hard on my sister.
00:18:54
I think she feels
kind of boxed in.
00:18:57
Like, she knows it
needs to be done.
00:18:59
She knows it has to be done.
00:19:01
But she doesn't want a lot
of other people involved
00:19:05
because it's embarrassing.
00:19:15
Good morning.
00:19:16
Good morning.
00:19:17
All right.
00:19:18
We are here for one reason
and one reason only.
00:19:20
We want to clean this house
out so you and your family
00:19:23
can get back in.
00:19:24
I'm Matt Paxton.
00:19:25
I'm an extreme
cleaning specialist.
00:19:27
She is going to get to go
through every single thing.
00:19:29
So every box comes by
her, she looks in there.
00:19:32
With hoarding, it's
about control and respect.
00:19:35
She feels like she has
no control anywhere else
00:19:37
in her life.
00:19:38
So this is what she controls.
00:19:39
Thank you for
letting us do this.
00:19:40
I know this is really hard
for you to let us in your home
00:19:43
and trust us.
00:19:43
So we know it's a big step.
00:19:45
Thank you.
00:19:46
All right.
We ready?
00:19:47
- Ready.
- Let's go.
00:19:48
Let's do it.
00:19:54
Wow.
00:19:57
When you walk in
the house, I mean,
00:19:58
the first thing-- the smell
just smacks you in the face.
00:20:01
It's one of the worst smells
I've ever smelled in all
00:20:04
the houses I've ever been in.
00:20:07
This is-- this
is all cat feces.
00:20:13
She was forced out of this
house from the hoarding.
00:20:17
This was her
dining room table.
00:20:18
This was where she
ate with her family.
00:20:20
So this is three
feet of cat feces.
00:20:23
I think, really, we're
cleaning up the cat's house
00:20:25
for the last three years.
00:20:27
And if you and I took a poop
on the floor for three years,
00:20:29
the house would smell
really bad, too.
00:20:33
Why don't we sit down, Robin,
and go through everything?
00:20:37
Now this has a bunch of mold.
00:20:39
Can't that be washed?
00:20:41
The urine and the mold is
not going to wash out well.
00:20:47
That's to keep.
00:20:49
It's got the bugs
that have started.
00:20:52
Well, it can be brushed off.
00:20:53
Well, the problem
is they started
00:20:55
laying their eggs in the book.
00:20:59
The things would get
a little stuck on
00:21:01
are some bags that she felt
she had pre-sorted, not
00:21:04
understanding the condition of
the cats ripping open the bags
00:21:07
and how much debris had
really gotten in those.
00:21:10
See?
00:21:11
There's just-- there's larva
and bugs all in this bag.
00:21:15
OK?
00:21:17
[clattering]
00:21:21
20 minutes, we're
already on cat number two.
00:21:24
That's a full grown cat.
00:21:27
And then we've got the fur
going all the way over.
00:21:30
This is the level of hoarding.
00:21:32
I mean, this is where she lived.
00:21:34
We wanted to do
everything we could
00:21:36
to help their situation out.
00:21:41
You got dead animals and
three feet high poop.
00:21:45
But they wouldn't take it.
00:21:47
You know?
00:21:49
It's my life.
00:21:50
Leave me alone.
00:21:55
Is that looking all trash?
00:21:57
That one is, anyway.
00:21:59
I think that one is, too.
00:22:00
Yeah.
00:22:01
[interposing voices]
00:22:02
I think it's all trash, Mom.
00:22:04
Well.
00:22:05
We found that wind
chine in there, though.
00:22:07
Oh.
00:22:07
There's some pictures I want.
- No.
00:22:09
No.
- Yeah.
00:22:10
- Well.
- No.
00:22:11
It's got mold in it, Mom.
- Yeah.
00:22:12
I think this is--
- It's got mold in it.
00:22:13
You never know what's
down in there, though.
00:22:15
It's not worth
looking through, Mom.
00:22:17
So Kelly, how are
you feeling kind
00:22:18
of helping with this process
now and being able to talk about
00:22:21
it more openly?
00:22:25
I'm not sure.
00:22:27
See.
00:22:28
If we dumped that, we
wouldn't have found that.
00:22:38
I don't think I'm going
to be able to help anymore.
00:22:42
[inaudible].
00:22:46
Well, we've put stuff away.
00:22:49
[yelling] I don't care!
00:22:50
It's full of crap!
00:22:52
[clanking]
00:22:54
I want to cut that bag open.
00:22:56
Kelly?
00:22:56
Because it's been zippered up.
00:23:07
You can't argue and reason
with a brain disorder.
00:23:10
I didn't argue with her.
00:23:11
I just told her how I felt.
00:23:12
OK.
00:23:13
I told her she was
breaking my heart.
00:23:15
OK.
00:23:16
[yelling] I told her that
before and she didn't listen!
00:23:19
She didn't want me
digging in that box.
00:23:21
It was real bad.
00:23:25
It made me feel bad.
00:23:26
But there's some good things in
the bottom we wanted to keep.
00:23:33
That box is covered
with roach eggs.
00:23:36
[yelling] Pissing me off!
00:23:45
I don't think they
should put people in jail
00:23:47
for disabilities, which is
essentially what I have.
00:23:50
[door squeaking]
00:23:51
If I was getting the
help long time ago,
00:23:53
I don't think I would've had
a problem making a living
00:23:55
and paying taxes just
like everybody else.
00:23:59
I just wish it wasn't this way.
00:24:02
Well, it doesn't have to be.
00:24:04
[laughs] We're working on it.
00:24:06
It's OK, Dad.
00:24:08
I've never really seen
him get emotional before.
00:24:12
I hope that that's opening
up the path to recovery.
00:24:22
- Good morning, everybody.
- Good morning.
00:24:24
Good morning.
00:24:25
Today we're obviously going
to start on the outside.
00:24:26
There's a lot to do on the
outside, Ken, as you know.
00:24:28
I'm Corey Chalmers, a
hoarding remediation expert.
00:24:30
You're going to have to
make some tough decisions.
00:24:33
You have a lot to lose.
00:24:34
You have a family.
00:24:35
You have a house.
00:24:36
And you have some freedom
that you could be losing here
00:24:37
on Monday.
- Right.
00:24:39
Let's prioritize what
your projects truly are
00:24:40
and what you're really
going to work on.
00:24:42
And let's get rid
of the rest, OK?
00:24:43
- Sounds good.
- OK.
00:24:44
Are we ready to go?
00:24:45
[interposing voices]
00:24:46
All right.
00:24:47
Let's go.
00:24:48
I'm thinking probably
a lot of good things
00:24:50
would be thrown away.
00:24:52
Things that are useful
should be used, you know?
00:24:54
That would make me feel a
little better, if what I had
00:24:57
was being used.
00:25:04
Is that a no donate
thing, too, or what?
00:25:07
This is definitely
not a donate item.
00:25:09
Who wants a broken,
one armed pruner?
00:25:11
I would.
00:25:12
[laughter]
00:25:13
Well, I know you would.
00:25:14
All right.
00:25:15
Exercise weights-- do you
have a bar, a weight set?
00:25:17
This is it.
00:25:18
Is that something
that you want to use?
00:25:20
Yeah, I would like it.
00:25:24
How many liquid
nails and silicones
00:25:27
does one man need to do
projects around the house?
00:25:30
There's 80 of them
in your backyard.
00:25:33
I'm trying to trust
Corey about, you know,
00:25:35
what he's talking about.
00:25:36
But I don't know if he's
really met somebody who
00:25:40
likes to fix stuff like I do.
00:25:43
Can my son use this?
00:25:44
Or is this too--
00:25:45
It's disgusting.
00:25:46
A little hosing off, I mean.
00:25:48
Ken's really been
dragging his feet today.
00:25:50
He's been moving stuff around
from pile to pile to pile.
00:25:54
He also is keeping
a lot of things
00:25:56
that are completely useless.
00:25:57
They're of no value.
00:26:00
All I can do is just
you decide everything.
00:26:02
Because I don't--
you know, I don't--
00:26:03
That's-- that's not
therapeutic, though.
00:26:05
But you're going to stretch
out the pain for me this way.
00:26:08
I'd rather have it all painful
for five minutes, you know?
00:26:12
This isn't a five
minute process.
00:26:14
Or an hour.
00:26:15
I'm going to start
telling you what I think
00:26:16
is a good decision
and a bad decision
00:26:18
and what's going to
keep you out of jail
00:26:19
and what's going to
send you to jail.
00:26:21
It all boils down to making
Ken make the decision right now
00:26:24
instead of putting it off.
00:26:26
So I'm going to become a
lot more forceful with him
00:26:27
until he starts making
the decisions on his own.
00:26:30
And this is not a
useful broom, correct?
00:26:35
Correct.
00:26:37
See all these bike racks?
00:26:39
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
00:26:40
Can we get rid of those?
00:26:41
I want to put
them on the bikes.
00:26:43
Classic in compulsive
hoarding is a tendency
00:26:46
to rationalize why you're
going to keep things.
00:26:49
And this is a defense
mechanism that people
00:26:52
use so that they don't have
to give up their stuff.
00:26:54
I don't have too many good ones.
00:26:56
And this is a good one.
- Listen.
00:26:57
We have to get
rid of this stuff.
00:26:58
If jail doesn't make Ken
realize that he has to do this,
00:27:02
I don't think anything will.
00:27:10
I'm sorry, again.
00:27:11
It's OK.
00:27:12
I can't do it.
00:27:13
It's OK.
00:27:14
I can't do it.
00:27:15
It's OK.
00:27:17
It's fine.
00:27:18
She lived part of her
time in this house when
00:27:21
she was going to college here.
00:27:23
And to see it in
the condition it is
00:27:25
has got to be hard on her.
00:27:28
When we grew up, our
home was neat and clean.
00:27:31
It was well-taken care of.
00:27:34
The whole family was
well-taken care of.
00:27:37
I guess it kind of happened
after I left, I guess.
00:27:43
I don't understand
why she's like this.
00:28:02
If they're stuck, you're
getting full mummification.
00:28:04
But when they're
out in the open,
00:28:06
they actually start to
cannibalize each other.
00:28:07
And they eat each other.
00:28:09
There's the skull.
00:28:10
OK.
00:28:11
Here's another paw.
00:28:13
Yeah.
00:28:14
This is very typical
with cat hoarding.
00:28:15
And it's really sad.
00:28:17
This is a great example where
it spiraled out of control.
00:28:20
And literally, she
loved her cats to death.
00:28:28
[rattling]
00:28:30
I'm getting the
rest of this cat.
00:28:32
Obviously, he died here.
00:28:34
He's been picked
around by other cats.
00:28:35
I've got to box this up
and give it to Robin.
00:28:37
She's really interested
in giving her cats
00:28:40
a proper burial.
00:28:40
She does care about these cats.
00:28:42
If you look at this, the
situation that we're in,
00:28:45
it sure doesn't feel like it.
00:28:46
But this is actually proof
that she loves her cats.
00:28:50
Because she had let her
life go to such shambles
00:28:53
to take care of these cats.
00:28:56
OK.
00:28:57
This is something we've
got to talk about.
00:28:58
This is one of
your cats I found.
00:29:00
Yeah.
00:29:01
I know you've
expressed interest
00:29:02
in giving them a proper burial.
00:29:04
We know you love
your cats a lot.
00:29:07
Well, they were
part of the family.
00:29:08
Why is it so important for you
to give them a proper burial?
00:29:11
Well, I don't want them just--
00:29:12
I don't want to put
it in a dumpster.
00:29:14
Do you feel any better
being able to know now
00:29:17
you can do something with it?
- Yeah.
00:29:19
I feel a lot better.
- OK.
00:29:20
I ought to bury him
or her in the backyard.
00:29:23
OK.
00:29:30
Those look like in
great shape to donate.
00:29:33
The umbrellas-- I want them.
00:29:36
I have a little
bit of concern again
00:29:38
about the speed of
the clean right now.
00:29:40
Our pace has got to
increase by about 75%.
00:29:42
Well, we're trying.
00:29:44
OK.
00:29:44
Is that Grandma's?
00:29:45
[inaudible] ways to keep.
00:29:46
That's your Grandma's Bible.
00:29:48
We are trying
to do it in a way
00:29:49
that we would do in a
more therapeutic manner.
00:29:52
Again, we're in a
crisis situation.
00:29:53
We're going item by item.
00:29:55
What's in there?
00:29:56
And she's looking at every
bag and making decisions,
00:29:58
looking in every pocket.
00:30:00
Is there stuff
inside of it, though?
00:30:02
I hope speed and trust
and momentum goes up.
00:30:04
So I don't mean to be pushing
and prodding, but this--
00:30:07
this is--
- You are.
00:30:08
--all we've got.
00:30:09
Does anybody have
any questions for me?
00:30:11
Or are you feeling
OK about today?
00:30:14
If you'll quit telling me
to give everything away, yes.
00:30:17
OK.
00:30:19
And, again, Robin, I'm not
telling you to give stuff away.
00:30:20
We just don't have any way
to get through your stuff
00:30:23
with the time we have allotted.
00:30:25
And I want you to start thinking
about what you're able to use.
00:30:28
Because I don't want you
to be in the same position
00:30:30
that you're in right now.
00:30:33
[crashing]
00:30:43
This is the part we were
hoping that we wouldn't find.
00:30:49
Midday today, I was told there
were some trash bags that
00:30:52
could go.
00:30:53
And in typical
hoarding style, it
00:30:55
turns out there was more to
those bags than we thought.
00:30:57
And when I confronted her,
it was-- it's definitely
00:30:59
that was her bathroom.
00:31:00
That was her port-a-john.
00:31:02
Well, it's embarrassing.
00:31:05
Not everybody's
business what happened.
00:31:07
It just got out of hand for us.
00:31:09
We couldn't keep up on it.
00:31:12
We typically find this
in a lot of hoarding
00:31:14
when the water shuts down.
00:31:15
They don't know where to go.
00:31:16
So this is poop.
00:31:17
This is all human feces.
00:31:19
And you know, to make
the choice in your life
00:31:22
to take a crap in a bag and
throw it in a corner is hard
00:31:27
one time.
00:31:28
This person has completely given
up at one point in their life.
00:31:31
I mean, this is--
00:31:33
this is awful.
00:31:34
I got to get a mask on.
00:31:35
This is bad.
00:31:36
You have to
hand-pick those bags.
00:31:38
Because if you put a shovel
on them, they break open.
00:31:40
I mean, it's-- it's 10
years of adult feces.
00:31:43
Oh, this is awful.
00:31:45
And we've got another
four hours of work
00:31:47
tonight to dispose of
that feces properly.
00:31:50
It's a long, not fun, night.
00:31:59
Yesterday we were
on a really good path.
00:32:02
He seemed to understand that
we needed to take the time
00:32:04
to do the therapeutic process.
00:32:07
Today, he's
completely shut down.
00:32:15
Just-- just put
these here for now.
00:32:17
Or just maybe donate.
00:32:18
Because I think--
00:32:19
[interposing voices]
00:32:20
Those-- those would
not be donatable,
00:32:22
just so that you know,
because they're damaged.
00:32:23
Well, OK, then.
00:32:24
I'll maybe take them back.
00:32:25
Part of what I want to
try to impress upon you
00:32:28
is that three second rule.
00:32:29
Rather than, you know, look
over it and talk about it
00:32:31
and that kind of thing, if you
can every three seconds just
00:32:34
try to make a decision.
00:32:36
I make really slow
decisions your way.
00:32:38
Let's just put
it in the maybe.
00:32:41
Maybe.
00:32:42
And then I have to make
even slower decisions later.
00:32:45
And I won't get it done.
00:32:46
I was talking about a
three second rule, which
00:32:49
is a very quick process.
00:32:50
That's not a slow process.
00:32:51
Three seconds is very quick.
00:32:53
I can't do it
in three seconds.
00:32:55
I think.
00:32:56
You know?
00:33:09
We have your keep pile.
00:33:10
OK.
00:33:11
We have the unknown.
00:33:13
You can't come back out here
and go through it all again.
00:33:16
That's what we're trying
to explain to you.
00:33:17
Well, I could
do it in less time
00:33:18
than we're talking about it.
00:33:20
But if we don't change
the plan right now,
00:33:22
we're not going
to get done today.
00:33:24
Do you want to keep
enough stuff that's
00:33:26
going to fit in the house rather
than make decisions about what
00:33:30
just needs to go?
00:33:35
We're not going to save
five of these, 10 of these
00:33:38
because they fit.
00:33:39
As much experience
you may have,
00:33:40
the thing is your
plan isn't fitting me.
00:33:42
I know myself.
00:33:43
I'm an expert with me.
00:33:45
I'm honestly completely
frustrated with Ken right now.
00:33:48
He's shut down.
00:33:49
He's not listening
to any of our advice.
00:33:51
He wants to go with
his own plan, which
00:33:53
is move everything
into the front yard,
00:33:55
and then go through
it again later.
00:33:56
We did a 10-by-10 area.
00:33:57
And we're not even done with it.
00:33:59
And this is what you have.
00:34:00
We have a whole house to do.
00:34:01
That's my point.
00:34:03
If you want to pass inspection,
it's not going to happen.
00:34:06
It's easy to do
it my way, easy.
00:34:08
Let's do it his way.
00:34:09
And then we, at
the end of the day,
00:34:10
if we don't accomplish
[inaudible]----
00:34:12
If it's not, that's on him.
00:34:13
- --then it's Ken's plan.
- OK.
00:34:14
Let's go.
00:34:15
I'm really worried about Ken.
00:34:17
He's tuning me out.
00:34:18
He's getting angry.
00:34:20
He is at incredibly high risk
for going back to the state
00:34:25
in which we started.
00:34:26
How are we going to
work as a team right now?
00:34:29
This is somebody's--
00:34:30
Are we just going to
stand here and watch you?
00:34:32
Is that your plan?
00:34:41
Don just gave a whole plan
to the 1-800-GOT-JUNK people.
00:34:45
He's changed everything.
00:34:46
He is apparently
going to run the show.
00:34:49
If we just cut through all
the chatter and just do it.
00:34:52
I know.
That's what I'm saying.
00:34:53
OK.
00:34:55
Don, you're sabotaging what
we're trying to do here.
00:34:56
OK? 'Cause we're trying
to work through this.
00:34:59
And so when you're telling us
don't work through it, let's
00:35:01
not talk about it, that's
sabotaging what Corey and I are
00:35:05
trying to do right here.
00:35:06
Well, look.
00:35:08
I have 50 years of
experience with Ken.
00:35:09
Talking doesn't work too much.
00:35:10
Well, we might as
well not even be here.
00:35:12
Because if we don't start
to challenge his thinking,
00:35:15
then nothing is
going to be fixed.
00:35:17
- So you're saying--
- Let the experts are saying--
00:35:19
--your way or the highway?
00:35:20
If you could have done this
process, then you obviously--
00:35:23
Over the last 50
years, it hasn't worked.
00:35:26
He has a once in
a lifetime chance
00:35:28
to do this the right way
with therapy from this point
00:35:31
on, not starting after--
00:35:33
you don't take a bottle from an
alcoholic and say you're cured.
00:35:35
Yeah.
00:35:36
So we have a decision to make.
00:35:38
- Right.
- Do you want to do it your way?
00:35:40
Or do you want to do it our way?
00:35:49
Some pennies came out
of here a while ago.
00:35:51
Huh?
00:35:52
Pennies came out of here.
00:35:54
We've got a lot of work to do.
00:35:56
We've got to finish
the downstairs,
00:35:57
go through all of the
grandfather's stuff,
00:35:59
and then we've got
to get upstairs.
00:36:02
[side conversations]
00:36:03
Got it.
00:36:16
So this was your dad's room?
00:36:18
Yeah.
00:36:19
We've got a couple of things
we know we need to save.
00:36:20
Maybe there's some
furniture over here.
00:36:23
We're not sure.
00:36:24
We obviously need to get a lot
of trash out of here first.
00:36:26
Right.
00:36:27
A lot of that is just empty--
00:36:29
Empty boxes, yeah.
00:36:30
Out to the dumpster.
00:36:31
Not to mention all the cat
feces and all that stuff.
00:36:34
I mean, most of
it looks like that.
00:36:37
Yes.
00:36:37
Just--
00:36:38
Just trash.
00:36:39
--trash.
00:36:46
If we could just take the
whole box to the donate--
00:36:49
No.
You're not getting the jewelry.
00:36:51
This is stuff
that you guys have
00:36:53
given us to put in the trash.
00:36:55
Robin, again, once they've
gone through the boxes,
00:36:57
we want to keep moving and
not not keep taking stuff out
00:36:59
of them.
00:37:00
OK?
- Hi, guys.
00:37:02
- What's up?
- Here you go.
00:37:03
Let's stop for a second, guys.
00:37:04
Robin, I need your
attention over here.
00:37:06
Do you want to keep
that stuff or do
00:37:07
you want to keep the house?
- We want to keep the house.
00:37:09
But we want some of that, too.
00:37:11
To keep the
house, you're going
00:37:12
to have to let go
of stuff like that.
00:37:13
You've got two crates
of this already.
00:37:15
We don't any more [inaudible].
00:37:17
I'd rather keep the house.
00:37:18
We truly need it.
00:37:19
Why do we need it?
00:37:20
I mean, you can live on
the street with a box,
00:37:22
or we can try to keep the house.
00:37:24
That's what we're getting to.
00:37:25
You had said you guys
wouldn't get grouchy.
00:37:27
Well, I don't
want to get grouchy.
00:37:29
But I want you to
save the house.
00:37:31
Idiot.
00:37:32
All right.
We're doing it.
00:37:33
So let's get going.
00:37:44
[inaudible].
00:37:45
[truck rattling]
00:37:50
I can't bring anybody up here.
00:37:52
It's not safe.
00:37:53
We've got cracks in
the walls over there.
00:37:55
We've got holes going all
the way through the step.
00:37:57
You can look down all
the way through the steps
00:37:59
to the sunlight.
00:38:01
There's rooms back
here that I don't think
00:38:03
anyone's been in in 20 years.
00:38:04
I can see it looks
like a rat's nest.
00:38:07
But I'm not even
sure what it is.
00:38:09
It's so unsafe up here.
00:38:10
It's just-- it's-- it's beyond--
00:38:12
it's really-- it's
just unbelievable.
00:38:15
We've seen all week what
hoarding does to a family.
00:38:17
Now we're seeing what
it does to a house.
00:38:19
It tears it apart, literally.
00:38:20
I mean, the
foundation is ruined.
00:38:23
This house is ruined.
00:38:26
What we're finding out
upstairs is it's just not safe.
00:38:29
It's not safe at all.
00:38:30
So unfortunately, we're going to
have to stop cleaning upstairs.
00:38:33
It's just not safe at all to
bring any of the guys in here.
00:38:35
We want to help you
downstairs still.
00:38:37
But unfortunately, we're going
to have to just stop cleaning
00:38:40
up there.
00:38:41
That was really bad news.
00:38:42
Because there are a few more
things that mom wanted to save,
00:38:46
a lot of lost memories in there.
00:39:03
Holes in the ceiling.
00:39:09
I'm not sure if their
expectations are still
00:39:12
hopeful that they can move in.
00:39:13
And I'm just not sure what
that aftermath will be.
00:39:15
And it might be very
difficult for the family
00:39:18
to face at that time.
00:39:23
I just wanted to let
you know what we found
00:39:25
and what our plans are to
deal with the situation.
00:39:30
We found a few cracks
in the ceilings.
00:39:33
We found a hole in one of
the rooms, in the ceiling.
00:39:37
The plumbing and electrical
all need attention,
00:39:40
need to be looked at to make
sure it's in working condition.
00:39:43
The furnace and
the duct work also
00:39:45
needs to be checked out
to make sure it's safe.
00:39:49
The one thing that got
my attention was they
00:39:51
didn't say that it's too
bad it has to come down.
00:39:57
I kind of half expected that.
00:39:59
What we plan on doing is
look at this, talk about it,
00:40:03
see what we can do.
00:40:04
Should have something for
you within a week or two.
00:40:08
I've been worrying about
it quite a while now.
00:40:12
So it was good news today.
00:40:17
By no means are they saying
the family can live here.
00:40:19
What they're saying is you
have some time and some options
00:40:21
to continue to make the changes
that they made this week.
00:40:26
You think it might
cost too much to fix it,
00:40:28
to be able to keep it, and
we'll just see what happens.
00:40:34
Right now, it looks like
nobody in their right mind
00:40:36
would want to save it.
00:40:37
But we do.
00:40:40
We want to keep it.
00:40:43
This box, that was on
top of there, right, Don?
00:40:45
- Yeah.
- Here.
00:40:46
See this box?
00:40:47
Put it all in this box.
00:40:48
Ken kind of developed
his own plan
00:40:50
with his brother,
which quickly failed.
00:40:53
They're brand new.
00:40:54
All right.
00:40:55
Family members were starting
to undermine the plan,
00:40:57
saying that their plan was
better than my plan and Corey's
00:41:01
plan.
00:41:02
And what ended up happening
is they piled everything
00:41:04
in the front yard to be sorted
through later, which is Ken's
00:41:06
problem.
00:41:14
I don't know about you.
00:41:15
But I'm worried.
00:41:16
We need to get into the kitchen
and clean that right now.
00:41:19
Corey is going to execute
people in all rooms starting
00:41:23
to organize and
that sort of thing.
00:41:26
I'd like to ask that
nobody change the plan.
00:41:31
All right.
00:41:32
The meat's two months ago.
00:41:33
Two months expired?
00:41:34
If you want to pull it back
out and put it your fridge,
00:41:36
go right ahead.
00:41:37
I highly recommend against it.
00:41:38
Because I don't know
where it's been.
00:41:40
It looks [inaudible].
- I do.
00:41:42
OK.
00:41:42
I know it's good.
00:41:43
OK.
00:41:44
Didn't you guys
already talk about this?
00:41:45
He's not talking
about much of anything.
00:41:48
OK.
00:41:49
Is this something that
you would have eaten?
00:41:50
No, doctor.
00:41:51
You know, I don't eat bad food.
00:41:54
I guess that's expired, too.
00:41:55
But these things last
forever, virtually.
00:41:58
This is 2008.
00:42:01
OK.
00:42:02
[inaudible]
00:42:03
God, I should've drank that.
00:42:05
Oh, shoot.
00:42:06
There's no expiration
date on this one.
00:42:08
I can tell you that
I wouldn't touch it.
00:42:10
I wouldn't even consider it.
00:42:11
Well, there's no
expiration date on it.
00:42:12
You're right.
Because it's cooked.
00:42:14
If you're asking me, I
want to say throw away
00:42:16
100% of the stuff in
your refrigerator.
00:42:17
There was really
no way to justify
00:42:19
what was in that refrigerator.
00:42:21
It was green.
It was black.
00:42:23
It was moldy.
00:42:24
It was truly dangerous.
00:42:26
[clanging]
00:42:26
Look.
00:42:27
We've got a lot of honey here.
00:42:29
Is it bad?
00:42:30
Are you just going
to throw it away?
00:42:31
Well, I wanted
to ask you first
00:42:32
why there's so much honey.
00:42:33
Are you just a big honey eater?
00:42:35
Um, is there a date on there?
00:42:36
Uh huh.
00:42:37
January of '09.
Do you want this to go?
00:42:39
Or do you want it to stay?
- I don't have a choice.
00:42:40
It has to go.
00:42:41
You absolutely have a choice.
00:42:42
- No, I don't.
- OK, well, then I'll--
00:42:44
It's either let
it go or go to jail.
00:42:49
Pick it up and throw it.
00:42:54
Just don't show it to Ken.
00:42:56
What is your plan for this?
00:42:58
Just to cover it.
00:42:59
Cover it so that everything
doesn't get dusty.
00:43:01
It's already dusty.
00:43:03
[vacuum running]
00:43:10
He's supposed to
be here any minute.
00:43:18
Hello, Ken.
00:43:19
How are you doing?
00:43:20
Good.
00:43:21
I believe from two
days ago this property
00:43:23
has improved itself
approximately 200%.
00:43:27
I hope from this point
on he's going to realize,
00:43:29
you know, what a mess
he's had and he's not
00:43:31
going to return to that.
I'm not saying he's cured.
00:43:33
He has a long way to go.
00:43:34
But hopefully, today, opened
his eyes a little bit.
00:43:36
We're doing court Monday.
00:43:38
I will talk with
the city attorney.
00:43:40
And I will probably
dismiss this case.
00:43:42
It's much better.
00:43:43
And I hope he'll have progress.
00:43:48
I think there's a good chance
that Noemi and I can get back
00:43:51
together.
00:43:52
There's some issues we
have to work out, I guess.
