TDK Ian Fang Offline Cut 1

00:54:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZsZg8gzIyQ

Ringkasan

TLDRThe Ian Fang case involves a 34-year-old actor accused of exploiting a 15-year-old girl, leading to his conviction. The discussion highlights issues of consent, grooming, and emotional manipulation, as well as societal reactions to the case. The complexities of the law regarding age gaps and consent are examined, alongside the potential long-term effects on the victim. The conversation also touches on the responsibilities of friends and family in such situations and the importance of understanding these issues to prevent future exploitation.

Takeaways

  • ⚖️ Ian Fang, a 34-year-old actor, exploited a 15-year-old girl.
  • 🧩 The case raises questions about consent and grooming.
  • 👩‍⚖️ Emotional manipulation played a significant role in the relationship.
  • 📜 The age of consent is 16, complicating legal aspects.
  • 🔍 Society is divided on the sentencing and implications of the case.
  • 👥 Friends and family reactions vary widely in such situations.
  • 💔 Victims may face long-term emotional trauma and stigma.
  • 📣 Understanding consent is crucial for preventing exploitation.
  • 🛡️ The law aims to protect minors from predatory behavior.
  • 🤝 Support systems are vital for victims navigating their experiences.

Garis waktu

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    The discussion revolves around the recent Ian Fang case, where a 34-year-old actor and acting school teacher was accused of taking advantage of a 15-year-old girl. The case highlights issues of emotional manipulation and the complexities of consent, especially given the age difference.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    The victim's mother took a bold stance by advocating for doxing Ian Fang, which sparked discussions about the implications of such actions on the victim's identity and the legal team's concerns about her exposure.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    The conversation delves into the nature of the relationship between Ian Fang and the victim, questioning whether it was genuinely consensual or exploitative, and how the law interprets such relationships based on age and consent.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Legal experts weigh in on the sentencing, noting that the age of consent and the nature of the relationship play significant roles in determining the severity of the punishment, which some believe is too lenient given the circumstances.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    The discussion touches on the concept of grooming and how it can manifest in relationships between older individuals and minors, emphasizing the importance of recognizing manipulative behaviors.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Participants reflect on their own experiences and societal perceptions of relationships with significant age gaps, questioning the validity of consent and the power dynamics involved.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    The conversation shifts to the societal stigma surrounding sex work and how it relates to the Ian Fang case, exploring the complexities of personal choice and societal judgment.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    The participants debate the potential for rehabilitation and second chances for individuals who commit serious offenses, considering the impact of their actions on victims and society at large.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:45:00

    The discussion highlights the challenges of navigating friendships and relationships when one party has committed a serious crime, emphasizing the emotional turmoil and moral dilemmas involved.

  • 00:45:00 - 00:54:40

    Ultimately, the conversation underscores the need for clear boundaries and understanding in relationships, particularly when it comes to issues of consent, power dynamics, and the potential for manipulation.

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Peta Pikiran

Video Tanya Jawab

  • What is the Ian Fang case about?

    Ian Fang, a 34-year-old actor, was accused of exploiting a 15-year-old girl, leading to his conviction and sentencing.

  • What were the accusations against Ian Fang?

    He was accused of emotional manipulation and taking advantage of a minor.

  • What is grooming in this context?

    Grooming refers to the process where an adult builds a relationship with a minor to manipulate them into sexual activity.

  • What is the age of consent in this case?

    The age of consent is 16, but the victim was 15, which complicates the legal implications.

  • How does the law view relationships with significant age gaps?

    The law focuses on the age of consent and whether the relationship is deemed exploitative.

  • What role does emotional manipulation play in such cases?

    Emotional manipulation can influence the victim's perception of the relationship, complicating consent.

  • What are the societal reactions to the case?

    There has been significant public discourse regarding the sentencing and the implications of the case.

  • How do friends and family react to such situations?

    Reactions can vary widely, with some distancing themselves from the accused and others offering support.

  • What are the potential long-term effects on the victim?

    Victims may face emotional trauma, social stigma, and challenges in their personal lives.

  • What is the importance of discussing consent and grooming?

    Understanding these concepts is crucial for preventing exploitation and protecting minors.

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Gulir Otomatis:
  • 00:00:00
    Today we're actually going to be
  • 00:00:01
    covering a very recent case that
  • 00:00:02
    everybody has been talking about which
  • 00:00:03
    is the Ian Fang case. This guy 34 year
  • 00:00:07
    old
  • 00:00:08
    actor/acting school teacher also since I
  • 00:00:11
    go into more detail modeling school
  • 00:00:13
    teacher took advantage of a 15year-old
  • 00:00:15
    girl multiple times. There were
  • 00:00:17
    basically accusations of like emotional
  • 00:00:19
    manipulation kind of stuff also. Then he
  • 00:00:21
    kind of called out kind of caught go to
  • 00:00:23
    court and then now he is going to jail
  • 00:00:26
    for it. That is the gist of it. Do you
  • 00:00:28
    know the deeper details? I saw the
  • 00:00:29
    mothership post. Yeah. I thought it was
  • 00:00:32
    a super boss of of the victim's mom to
  • 00:00:34
    say, "Let's dox him and if they find out
  • 00:00:37
    who my daughter is, they find out who my
  • 00:00:38
    daughter is, but I'm going to dox him
  • 00:00:39
    and take him down in the process." I
  • 00:00:40
    think, "Wow, that is super boss." I feel
  • 00:00:42
    like that one really sends a signal over
  • 00:00:45
    going to jail for whatever month. I hope
  • 00:00:46
    the victim also felt that way. Not like
  • 00:00:48
    not force, right? So from what I read I
  • 00:00:50
    believe Ian Funk's legal team was like
  • 00:00:52
    uh no because people might be able to
  • 00:00:55
    identify the victim because they are
  • 00:00:56
    seen in a lot of photographs across like
  • 00:00:58
    you know all the eight days and all that
  • 00:00:59
    and then um the victim's legal team
  • 00:01:02
    representing the victim said that uh
  • 00:01:04
    despite the risk of her being identified
  • 00:01:05
    she is ready for that he needs to be
  • 00:01:08
    exposed to something like that.
  • 00:01:09
    Actually, honestly, when I look at the
  • 00:01:11
    thing and then like as I flip through
  • 00:01:12
    the carousel, my first question is how
  • 00:01:14
    did he palto cuz it felt like they were
  • 00:01:17
    in a relationship together. Whether or
  • 00:01:19
    not she's in love with him as as a as a
  • 00:01:21
    human or as in love with him as a
  • 00:01:22
    celebrity, right? She really steady, you
  • 00:01:25
    know, she's she wants she loves him and
  • 00:01:27
    she wants to take care of him also. So,
  • 00:01:28
    like how come it got out? And then I
  • 00:01:30
    realized, okay, so the STD then probably
  • 00:01:32
    the the doctor will be like, "Have you
  • 00:01:34
    been sexually active?" Then she'll
  • 00:01:35
    probably like, "No, cuz a mother in the
  • 00:01:36
    room." And then and then it's like um
  • 00:01:38
    but you have a STI then like oh you
  • 00:01:39
    better be true who's the guy you know
  • 00:01:42
    boom then boom you play through the
  • 00:01:44
    whole
  • 00:01:45
    scenario thing right but then this is
  • 00:01:48
    what I realized also right I honestly
  • 00:01:50
    don't think it's possible for the victim
  • 00:01:52
    to be fully comfortable with letting
  • 00:01:54
    people know that the guy was fun out of
  • 00:01:56
    maybe her love or wanting to protect him
  • 00:01:57
    or stock syndrome. Yeah. So honestly it
  • 00:01:59
    does feel like is the mother's decision.
  • 00:02:01
    In fact, that last part is so important
  • 00:02:03
    like the the relationship part, right?
  • 00:02:05
    That actually influence the sentencing
  • 00:02:06
    because a lot of people actually came
  • 00:02:07
    out and say, "Hey, how come the
  • 00:02:08
    sentencing is so short?" But in fact,
  • 00:02:10
    like lawyers actually have come out to
  • 00:02:11
    say that actually the sentencing, right,
  • 00:02:12
    for this particular case quite on the
  • 00:02:14
    high side already simply because she she
  • 00:02:16
    actually falls between an age group
  • 00:02:18
    between 14 to 15, right? Where if you
  • 00:02:20
    are actually in a consensual
  • 00:02:21
    relationship in which she determined
  • 00:02:23
    that was like her boyfriendish, then it
  • 00:02:26
    was actually less severe. Had it not
  • 00:02:29
    been consentual, it would have been
  • 00:02:30
    deemed like way worse. Yeah. And had
  • 00:02:32
    actually been less than 14, it would
  • 00:02:33
    have been raped. Still above. Exactly.
  • 00:02:37
    It would have been nothing. Oh, is it?
  • 00:02:39
    Yeah. 15. But what? Okay. But what if
  • 00:02:41
    like the age gap is bigger like 16
  • 00:02:43
    versus plus a 50 year old man. It's not
  • 00:02:46
    so much about the the age gap. It's more
  • 00:02:48
    of the age of consent that is in play
  • 00:02:51
    here. There's also a component of
  • 00:02:53
    grooming involved, is it? because I know
  • 00:02:55
    that grooming laws is under 18 and
  • 00:02:58
    below. also right according to to to the
  • 00:03:00
    lawyer I think that was quoted on
  • 00:03:01
    mothership and if I'm quoting him right
  • 00:03:03
    uh the nature of it that's um being
  • 00:03:05
    looked at is whether it was an
  • 00:03:06
    exploitative relationship and so there's
  • 00:03:09
    a lot of ways to determine that I think
  • 00:03:10
    they look at history they look at
  • 00:03:12
    messages they look at things like that
  • 00:03:13
    and based on the judges ruling it looked
  • 00:03:16
    like it was a consensual relationship
  • 00:03:17
    rather than an exploitative relation
  • 00:03:18
    because they met at like a party she
  • 00:03:21
    looked like the like a willing party but
  • 00:03:23
    again how do you determine whether they
  • 00:03:24
    met at a party oh yeah no also
  • 00:03:28
    was considered that they met at a party.
  • 00:03:30
    So, it's not like it's a teacher student
  • 00:03:32
    kind of thing. But also then there's the
  • 00:03:34
    the very obvious conversation that you
  • 00:03:35
    you're 15. How much are you aware? How
  • 00:03:38
    can you even consent? The law has
  • 00:03:39
    already decided you cannot consent at
  • 00:03:41
    that age. You know, you're only allowed
  • 00:03:42
    to consent at a certain age. Before
  • 00:03:44
    that, you're not really consenting,
  • 00:03:45
    right? Yeah. So,
  • 00:03:49
    [Music]
  • 00:03:50
    he has a very strange argument for this.
  • 00:03:54
    There's no argument here. And and I'm
  • 00:03:55
    not trying to make like fun or light of
  • 00:03:57
    the situation, but the the first thought
  • 00:04:00
    and I really as a guy, right, cuz also
  • 00:04:01
    kind of used to like the laws always
  • 00:04:03
    kind of more protective of women, which
  • 00:04:05
    I understand why. So it's just that then
  • 00:04:07
    as a guy you're like h you know, but I
  • 00:04:09
    was thinking when I was 15, right, if a
  • 00:04:11
    Victoria Secret Angel like let's say
  • 00:04:13
    Miranda K wants to have sex with me at
  • 00:04:14
    age 15, right, I would think yes, right?
  • 00:04:18
    At age 25, no. Heck, at age 35, my
  • 00:04:21
    decision has not changed. My only
  • 00:04:23
    problem was with when you when we flip
  • 00:04:25
    it and say I in my shoes right if I see
  • 00:04:27
    a super model at the age trying I'm 15 I
  • 00:04:30
    also won you know but I'm telling you
  • 00:04:32
    not to think of them as model you put
  • 00:04:34
    yourself in your shoes and then you
  • 00:04:35
    change that person out the older figure
  • 00:04:37
    is now no longer that Victoria Secret
  • 00:04:39
    angel it is somebody who in your mind
  • 00:04:41
    may be very unattractive to you but now
  • 00:04:43
    they are they're older than you they
  • 00:04:45
    have some sort of position over you
  • 00:04:46
    again I don't know whether this guy was
  • 00:04:48
    in any sort of position of power over
  • 00:04:50
    her was in one of the problem is that
  • 00:04:52
    this is a celebrity. He is. So it's like
  • 00:04:54
    if you reject a celebrity and then you
  • 00:04:57
    know this guy could and I don't know if
  • 00:04:58
    she and I would also think that in many
  • 00:05:00
    circumstances like this whether you're a
  • 00:05:02
    celebrity or you're ugly or you're
  • 00:05:04
    whatever right as an older figure right
  • 00:05:07
    there are so many tools to manipulate
  • 00:05:10
    and make the the the younger person feel
  • 00:05:12
    like I'm a rich fellow or I am a I am a
  • 00:05:15
    successful person or I have all these
  • 00:05:16
    things that you can take advantage of
  • 00:05:18
    and whatever or I'm a very nice person
  • 00:05:20
    to you which you don't have and they can
  • 00:05:21
    use this place of power and I would
  • 00:05:24
    think that from the younger person's
  • 00:05:26
    perspective, it's a fair point to be
  • 00:05:28
    like, I can show off to my friends that
  • 00:05:29
    hey, look, I got this hot milk waiting
  • 00:05:32
    for me like sugar mommy willing to do
  • 00:05:34
    anything for me. I have the best life.
  • 00:05:36
    What do you all have? Nothing. And I'm
  • 00:05:37
    only 15. Yeah. So, I can see that
  • 00:05:39
    argument from the younger person's
  • 00:05:41
    perspective because they don't know any
  • 00:05:42
    better. And to them, this is a major win
  • 00:05:44
    for them. But yeah, you can put yourself
  • 00:05:46
    in their shoes, right? and see how it is
  • 00:05:48
    not completely manipulation on one end
  • 00:05:51
    but at the same time it's also that they
  • 00:05:53
    are to them this is in some ways
  • 00:05:56
    potentially a win like if I'm if I go
  • 00:05:58
    back to when I was 15 and then if I put
  • 00:06:00
    myself in John's you know little example
  • 00:06:02
    here right okay and I am Miranda oh I
  • 00:06:08
    [Music]
  • 00:06:10
    cannot trust is important to me that's
  • 00:06:13
    the end of every dream I ever had about
  • 00:06:15
    America right
  • 00:06:16
    No, but if I put myself in this
  • 00:06:18
    situation again, I shouldn't be in that
  • 00:06:20
    spot again. Like like I think we all
  • 00:06:22
    agree no 15year-old, no any, you know,
  • 00:06:24
    body under the age of consent should be
  • 00:06:25
    put in that spot by anybody older where
  • 00:06:28
    you are being asked to be like I'm being
  • 00:06:30
    tempted with this. Oh, I'm very
  • 00:06:31
    attractive. I'm I can somebody who I
  • 00:06:33
    would seek validation from, who I would
  • 00:06:35
    seek the approval of. When I go back to
  • 00:06:37
    that age, I can't even decide for myself
  • 00:06:39
    if that would have been the right thing
  • 00:06:40
    for me. whether whatever testosterone
  • 00:06:42
    field you know decision I would make is
  • 00:06:44
    the correct decision I don't think I can
  • 00:06:46
    say whether you know whether it's
  • 00:06:47
    correct or not at the age of 15 at the
  • 00:06:49
    age of 35 or so if I would argue that
  • 00:06:51
    sure yeah very honest yeah like because
  • 00:06:53
    one year later at age of 16 this would
  • 00:06:55
    have been nothing once again I'm not
  • 00:06:57
    speaking about I barely know the guy I
  • 00:06:58
    met him once or twice at a party right
  • 00:07:00
    oh you as well
  • 00:07:02
    [Music]
  • 00:07:04
    yeah so I mean I don't know I'm not
  • 00:07:06
    speaking of
  • 00:07:10
    He just got very vague very interest.
  • 00:07:12
    But I also think the same can be said
  • 00:07:14
    like for right now if you have a
  • 00:07:16
    relationship today you you cannot say
  • 00:07:17
    like at age 35 this girl that let's say
  • 00:07:20
    I'll leave my wife for whether it's the
  • 00:07:21
    right decision or not or whether or not
  • 00:07:23
    my wife is the right decision or not. We
  • 00:07:25
    don't know age 45 maybe something
  • 00:07:27
    happened to P and I and she stab me in
  • 00:07:28
    the back. I'm not saying you are in
  • 00:07:30
    better place at 15 but you're never in a
  • 00:07:32
    better place. There are even some
  • 00:07:33
    adults, right? Like adult females that
  • 00:07:35
    like adult females because like not
  • 00:07:39
    underage females but adult females who
  • 00:07:42
    truly believe that like doing only fans
  • 00:07:45
    or whatever is perfectly fine because of
  • 00:07:47
    the the superficial benefits that you
  • 00:07:49
    gain from it. Yeah. But there's there
  • 00:07:51
    there's so it's so layered, right? And
  • 00:07:53
    there's so many issues and baggage and
  • 00:07:55
    all sort of other [ __ ] problems that
  • 00:07:56
    come with it. But that's for them to
  • 00:07:57
    bear. You know, I I recently I met I met
  • 00:08:00
    a female friend, right? I remember we
  • 00:08:01
    brought up the the name came out of only
  • 00:08:04
    fan creator local one and then she said
  • 00:08:07
    then I I thought I thought because we
  • 00:08:09
    all know each other including the
  • 00:08:10
    creator right and then I was like hey
  • 00:08:12
    why then she said well they all really
  • 00:08:14
    fell off the bandwagon something along
  • 00:08:16
    that line then I'm like but she's doing
  • 00:08:18
    what she needs to do for a family then
  • 00:08:20
    it's like yeah that's what she tell
  • 00:08:21
    herself then I mean I kind of left it at
  • 00:08:22
    that there cuz I I don't want to go into
  • 00:08:23
    like a moral argument right but I I
  • 00:08:26
    think one of the key things is that like
  • 00:08:27
    yeah I think you may implicate your
  • 00:08:29
    children your children get bullied for
  • 00:08:30
    this reason. But I feel like as an only
  • 00:08:32
    fans creator, right, most of the
  • 00:08:34
    problems that you will face in life down
  • 00:08:36
    the road, right, is yourself to bear.
  • 00:08:38
    Cuz you decided on the path, you know,
  • 00:08:40
    it's going to have guys will look at you
  • 00:08:42
    and think you're a prostitute or loose
  • 00:08:44
    woman or loose morals. Then it's like,
  • 00:08:45
    but that's you like you make decision
  • 00:08:47
    now then you going to pay for it later.
  • 00:08:48
    It's you. So I think yeah. Okay.
  • 00:08:51
    discourse around this uh this this topic
  • 00:08:53
    it's is more to do with how we
  • 00:08:55
    stigmatize sex work in this society our
  • 00:08:58
    society our Asian our conservative
  • 00:09:00
    society is how we just look at it we
  • 00:09:01
    look at it as if it's something to like
  • 00:09:03
    oh it carries a stain as if it's some
  • 00:09:05
    sort of like stigmata that going to
  • 00:09:07
    carry in this society it does and in the
  • 00:09:09
    other places where people don't bat an
  • 00:09:10
    eyelid right what is the difference
  • 00:09:12
    between us sitting in front of a camera
  • 00:09:14
    talking c you know and sharing opinions
  • 00:09:16
    and having this discourse and somebody
  • 00:09:18
    who's just doing the same thing with
  • 00:09:19
    their clothes off and sure they're doing
  • 00:09:20
    other stuff, other activities, at the
  • 00:09:22
    end of the day, you are you got to sell
  • 00:09:24
    what you got to sell, right? So when we
  • 00:09:25
    we consider it like, oh, you are you're
  • 00:09:27
    now you're stigmatized. You are forever
  • 00:09:29
    stained by this thing you've done in
  • 00:09:30
    your life at this point in time. Like we
  • 00:09:33
    we we we assigned that baggage to them
  • 00:09:34
    and then suddenly like like you said,
  • 00:09:36
    even the female friend of yours who
  • 00:09:38
    commented on that creator, it wasn't
  • 00:09:39
    even you who said that, right? It was it
  • 00:09:41
    was a female person like a woman who
  • 00:09:42
    said that we both know that girl. Oh
  • 00:09:45
    yeah. Okay. So you're you're even
  • 00:09:46
    friends, acquaintance like you know
  • 00:09:47
    there's a level of knowing someone and I
  • 00:09:49
    know some of the you know people who
  • 00:09:51
    also do some sex work and they do it
  • 00:09:52
    because it just ends to me. They have to
  • 00:09:54
    just pay the bills. They're not doing
  • 00:09:55
    it. But what if they like it? Okay then
  • 00:09:57
    great for them if they find satisfaction
  • 00:09:58
    in their job in the job.
  • 00:10:04
    Huh. When passion meets what you're good
  • 00:10:07
    at.
  • 00:10:08
    [Music]
  • 00:10:10
    Does it need to be a means to an end?
  • 00:10:12
    What if what if it was an enjoyable job
  • 00:10:16
    that is enjoyed by all parties involved?
  • 00:10:18
    Will you personally be okay with it?
  • 00:10:19
    Let's say it's your friend. You don't
  • 00:10:21
    you don't need to tell yourself but it's
  • 00:10:23
    a means to an end. She needs to do what
  • 00:10:24
    she needs to do. Even I mean I was
  • 00:10:26
    guilty of just saying that 5 years ago,
  • 00:10:27
    right? But beyond that, it's just like
  • 00:10:29
    that's her chosen career. Yeah. Power to
  • 00:10:31
    her, man. Yeah. Cool. Right. Okay. Okay.
  • 00:10:33
    I don't need to justify your career to
  • 00:10:34
    me. Yeah. Your career is your choice. I
  • 00:10:36
    don't need to justify it to me. It's
  • 00:10:38
    just my own personal conviction. It's
  • 00:10:39
    quite a means to an end. No. So I'm
  • 00:10:41
    saying that You don't say that about my
  • 00:10:43
    job because my job also means to end.
  • 00:10:44
    Your job also means to end. But you
  • 00:10:45
    don't come here out of fashion, right? I
  • 00:10:46
    mean I do. I enjoy I enjoy being here.
  • 00:10:48
    But if I don't pay you, you won't
  • 00:10:49
    come right.
  • 00:10:57
    Wait, wait, hold up. For how long? This
  • 00:10:59
    is the job interview that has just been
  • 00:11:01
    created now.
  • 00:11:03
    Okay. But to actually bring the two
  • 00:11:05
    together, I think where the the point is
  • 00:11:07
    is that I think with the O of creators,
  • 00:11:09
    like that's a cross that they have to
  • 00:11:11
    bail out whatever decision that they
  • 00:11:12
    make, no matter how at what age they
  • 00:11:14
    make it, that's something that they live
  • 00:11:15
    with forever. But I think with this case
  • 00:11:16
    with like a 15year-old and a 34 year
  • 00:11:18
    old, it's quite clear that there was an
  • 00:11:20
    adult in the room. There was an adult
  • 00:11:21
    here that could have been who can have
  • 00:11:23
    made the responsible decision out of all
  • 00:11:25
    this because we know that as
  • 00:11:26
    15year-olds, we may want something. We
  • 00:11:28
    may think we want something but every
  • 00:11:30
    day we may not lie and necessarily or at
  • 00:11:32
    least by law we are not set or not
  • 00:11:35
    determined to be able to make decisions
  • 00:11:36
    for ourselves. And so then it's really
  • 00:11:38
    up to the adult who is involved in all
  • 00:11:40
    of this to either walk away or not even
  • 00:11:42
    try and approach a child to begin with.
  • 00:11:44
    So I I guess to some extent I can
  • 00:11:46
    understand why there was some uproar as
  • 00:11:48
    to why the sentencing was I guess too
  • 00:11:50
    short for some people. But at the end of
  • 00:11:52
    the day I think we have to realize that
  • 00:11:53
    we don't know what the nature of the
  • 00:11:55
    relationship was. Yeah. No. And also
  • 00:11:57
    just to clarify in case people come at
  • 00:11:59
    us, his example and my example are of
  • 00:12:03
    completely separate to this case. Yeah.
  • 00:12:04
    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The argument that
  • 00:12:05
    we're making is completely separate to
  • 00:12:07
    this case. I had a separate thought on
  • 00:12:08
    this, right? Which is that how do how
  • 00:12:10
    does things like this happen, right? And
  • 00:12:12
    I tell you this is the slippery slope
  • 00:12:13
    that right all men are one step away
  • 00:12:15
    from. Okay. Not not not pedophilia or
  • 00:12:18
    like rape or what not. I mean like
  • 00:12:21
    the slippery slope of I mean as someone
  • 00:12:24
    that is not nearly as known as who Ian
  • 00:12:27
    fun is. I am damn careful, right, to
  • 00:12:30
    just go to dinner with another girl like
  • 00:12:33
    like dinner like lunch meeting. I feel I
  • 00:12:35
    can get away with it, right? Like like
  • 00:12:36
    dinner time at a fancy place that's non
  • 00:12:39
    cafe with a girl that's not my wife, not
  • 00:12:41
    my sister. It's not that it's a heart no
  • 00:12:43
    or I wouldn't but I would be conscious
  • 00:12:45
    of it, you know, like or I will ask
  • 00:12:48
    another friend to join if possible,
  • 00:12:49
    which happened last week, right? Cuz Pat
  • 00:12:51
    was away in London. So like everybody
  • 00:12:54
    any I met like I asked more people to
  • 00:12:56
    come. So instead of one girl, you have
  • 00:12:57
    four
  • 00:12:58
    girls. That's exactly what happened.
  • 00:13:01
    That's way better, right? No, it's way
  • 00:13:04
    better. Really? Really? The optics to
  • 00:13:06
    protect yourself or what? No. Someone
  • 00:13:08
    might So are you scared of yourself or
  • 00:13:10
    are you scared of the girl? No. No, no,
  • 00:13:12
    not girl. Are you scared of people?
  • 00:13:14
    People. Yeah, cuz
  • 00:13:16
    people I just don't I just don't want
  • 00:13:19
    because there are also times where
  • 00:13:20
    people do out of dress. They just send a
  • 00:13:21
    picture. Oh, John is here with this
  • 00:13:22
    other person. Yeah. you know, but it's
  • 00:13:24
    out of for someone like me to be so
  • 00:13:27
    guarded about these things, right? For
  • 00:13:29
    someone to be at the level of Ian Fun,
  • 00:13:31
    right, which is like plus TV and and all
  • 00:13:34
    that stuff. I don't believe it was a
  • 00:13:36
    easy decision to even get into a
  • 00:13:39
    relationship with this. I feel like,
  • 00:13:40
    right, I mean, and this is completely
  • 00:13:42
    hypothetical, okay? like my imagination.
  • 00:13:44
    I feel like it was a matter of meeting
  • 00:13:46
    someone and then she just like very
  • 00:13:48
    happy to see him and he maybe being a
  • 00:13:51
    nice guy is saying that if you need any
  • 00:13:52
    advice like just just ask me you know
  • 00:13:55
    and it starts with like then I give the
  • 00:13:57
    number then after that uh I maybe Ian
  • 00:14:00
    Coco I got question for you right and
  • 00:14:02
    then it it just kind of begins there and
  • 00:14:04
    then like you want to I'm very hungry I
  • 00:14:06
    want to go for dinner and then you
  • 00:14:08
    saying yes to micro things and then
  • 00:14:10
    bullshitting yourself that it's just cuz
  • 00:14:12
    I'm a nice guy over and over again right
  • 00:14:14
    you in situations like this. That's what
  • 00:14:16
    Pat warns me about every day. But the
  • 00:14:18
    facts of this case, right, is of where
  • 00:14:20
    he find her to have sex, right? That
  • 00:14:22
    creeped me out a bit because the first
  • 00:14:24
    one is she have co
  • 00:14:26
    she and then she got um what's
  • 00:14:29
    quarantine in a hotel. So it's like he
  • 00:14:32
    decided to go to the hotel to have sex
  • 00:14:34
    with her where he know number one she's
  • 00:14:36
    sick. Number two is supposed to be a
  • 00:14:37
    quarantine. So the mom checked her into
  • 00:14:39
    a hotel to quarantine. Oh no. Okay. Then
  • 00:14:42
    that's where he did it the first time.
  • 00:14:45
    Then after that the tin was still
  • 00:14:47
    quarantined but she left the room to
  • 00:14:50
    meet him. Then after that then they went
  • 00:14:51
    back to his residences. Then there's the
  • 00:14:54
    next time. Then after that the teen was
  • 00:14:56
    hospitalized. Then he went to the many
  • 00:14:59
    time this guy got problems. Yeah. He was
  • 00:15:03
    in the he was in the hospital room. No
  • 00:15:06
    like based on all his actions it sounds
  • 00:15:08
    predatory. Yeah. Don't you think so?
  • 00:15:11
    It's like there are so many instances to
  • 00:15:14
    prevent you from meeting right but he
  • 00:15:15
    have to push through all this like what
  • 00:15:18
    I say is that if you ask Ian fun 5 years
  • 00:15:20
    ago right is he interested in miners I
  • 00:15:22
    think he will say no right I
  • 00:15:27
    think I think he touched like he touch
  • 00:15:29
    his own heart I think unless unless he
  • 00:15:31
    really has tendencies right I think he
  • 00:15:34
    will just say no why will I you know but
  • 00:15:37
    I feel like a series of maybe it's a
  • 00:15:40
    young I say yes because I support her
  • 00:15:42
    career. I say yes because I'll be her
  • 00:15:44
    good friend or like she look up to me
  • 00:15:45
    and now I quite free because I'm no
  • 00:15:46
    longer acting. I don't know very long
  • 00:15:47
    see on TV. I don't know of his life.
  • 00:15:49
    Right. A series of yes. Yes. Yes. Right.
  • 00:15:50
    Puts him in a spot where he has this
  • 00:15:53
    kind of friendship with a young girl
  • 00:15:55
    whereby she might maybe be the first to
  • 00:15:58
    develop some romantic feelings for him,
  • 00:16:00
    right? And he just kind of play along
  • 00:16:02
    cuz he just kind of enjoy the attention
  • 00:16:04
    like that. Like that's like preex, you
  • 00:16:06
    know? It's a series of yeah just being a
  • 00:16:09
    nice guy. Yeah. Just being a nice guy.
  • 00:16:10
    You're saying that he's not a guy that
  • 00:16:12
    intentionally is just seeking out young
  • 00:16:14
    girls and then goes out and like only
  • 00:16:17
    maybe what I'm trying to say is that
  • 00:16:18
    okay another weird example when I made a
  • 00:16:21
    post that I'll be wifeless for a couple
  • 00:16:23
    weeks got weird DMs for weird chills for
  • 00:16:26
    weird things. Yo, let's what? Like what?
  • 00:16:29
    It could be. It could be drink from
  • 00:16:32
    girls.
  • 00:16:34
    Oh, you see my [ __ ] face. You take no
  • 00:16:36
    chance. I also think so.
  • 00:16:42
    Like, okay, if you go back to the whole
  • 00:16:43
    thing about him like just being innocent
  • 00:16:45
    at the start before he went apart. To
  • 00:16:47
    me, it's like I don't and I think we all
  • 00:16:49
    don't know the the facts of the case all
  • 00:16:51
    the way to the end. We don't know every
  • 00:16:52
    minute detail. So, I don't know how they
  • 00:16:53
    met, you know, I don't know how the
  • 00:16:55
    interactions were in the start. Was it
  • 00:16:57
    always public? Was it always very
  • 00:16:58
    innocent? Was it just a fan and an admir
  • 00:17:00
    admirer and a celebrity, that kind of
  • 00:17:01
    thing that eventually spiral into
  • 00:17:03
    something else? Or is it that the first
  • 00:17:05
    time he met her, you already knew what
  • 00:17:06
    he wanted? He was just building up to
  • 00:17:08
    it, which is classic grooming, which is
  • 00:17:10
    what we always see in age cases like
  • 00:17:11
    this underage victim and, you know, much
  • 00:17:14
    older perpetrator. So, I mean, we don't
  • 00:17:16
    have the facts. We can't speak to it.
  • 00:17:17
    But when we perceive it, the way I
  • 00:17:19
    perceive it is that there's this
  • 00:17:21
    immediate reaction that oh this person
  • 00:17:23
    definitely must have there's a small kid
  • 00:17:25
    here that I can take advantage of. So he
  • 00:17:27
    took advantage over, you know, various
  • 00:17:29
    occasions and he kept it private. That's
  • 00:17:31
    the thing that we keep coming back to is
  • 00:17:32
    that it was very discreet. No, let's say
  • 00:17:33
    in your example like they start off
  • 00:17:35
    good, right? Then what if like no sex
  • 00:17:37
    happened then he wait until like she's
  • 00:17:40
    18. Is that still considered grooming? I
  • 00:17:43
    think that's the definition. That's the
  • 00:17:44
    definition of grooming. As long as the
  • 00:17:47
    the party is below 60 is grooming. 70
  • 00:17:50
    not grooming. 70. Yeah. But okay. I
  • 00:17:53
    think this one gray because we also got
  • 00:17:54
    a lot of friends, right? That did
  • 00:17:55
    slightly older, right? Yeah. Then
  • 00:17:58
    honestly, they got together a bit later
  • 00:17:59
    in life, right? Yeah. cuz I be confused
  • 00:18:01
    by the grooming term whether is
  • 00:18:03
    specifically for like adelance
  • 00:18:06
    adolescence below 17 or like you know if
  • 00:18:10
    the person has like is a age gap thing
  • 00:18:13
    like 20 versus like 70 but that's that's
  • 00:18:16
    like the I think then someone the person
  • 00:18:18
    that wants the other person convicted
  • 00:18:20
    the owners is on that person to prove
  • 00:18:22
    that grooming to place um but from for
  • 00:18:24
    my knowledge the the age of consent from
  • 00:18:26
    when I last checked it for conversation
  • 00:18:28
    purpose damn Uh it's is is 16 for both.
  • 00:18:32
    I I believe there was like rumors or
  • 00:18:34
    like there was a myth that it was like
  • 00:18:36
    different ages for guys and girls like
  • 00:18:38
    18 for guys or 16 for girls but turns
  • 00:18:40
    out there's not 16 for legal age or
  • 00:18:42
    consent and then under 18 is uh sexual
  • 00:18:45
    grooming. Yeah. So there must be some
  • 00:18:47
    for evidence of like an exploitative or
  • 00:18:49
    grooming relationship. Yeah. If not
  • 00:18:50
    you're you're in the clear pretty much.
  • 00:18:52
    What what is the appropriate age gap
  • 00:18:54
    real thing that like for example let's
  • 00:18:56
    say you have a younger sibling right? So
  • 00:18:57
    18 years old already but then the person
  • 00:19:00
    that they dating they tell you it's like
  • 00:19:01
    35 year old. Yeah. Yeah. I will have
  • 00:19:04
    followup question.
  • 00:19:07
    I mean like if you have follow question
  • 00:19:08
    then it's not clear. No. So what's the
  • 00:19:09
    first question like where where you met?
  • 00:19:11
    Ah where do you meet him like is he
  • 00:19:14
    rich? Do you know them before you were
  • 00:19:15
    18? That's a very important one. Do you
  • 00:19:17
    did this person make themselves known to
  • 00:19:19
    you before 18?
  • 00:19:21
    Waiting for the 18 you know. Fair. Yeah
  • 00:19:23
    that's a very important one to know.
  • 00:19:24
    That's that's grooming. as ethical
  • 00:19:25
    grooming I guess in this because I think
  • 00:19:27
    in secondary school you still got
  • 00:19:28
    friends that like it's not that they are
  • 00:19:29
    smart beyond the years but they are
  • 00:19:31
    mature beyond the years then when they
  • 00:19:33
    when they come back with a 32 year old
  • 00:19:34
    boyfriend right then you're like okay it
  • 00:19:37
    makes sense
  • 00:19:39
    then it made sense
  • 00:19:40
    then you look back you're like no I
  • 00:19:43
    think there was a formula to it I think
  • 00:19:44
    it's like divide by 2 +
  • 00:19:48
    7 by 2 plus 7 I remember looking at the
  • 00:19:52
    numbers and like it kind of made sense
  • 00:19:53
    cuz it's like 40 so it's like 27. Okay.
  • 00:19:56
    What a 27 year old and a 40-y old. My my
  • 00:19:58
    whole take on all this is that until
  • 00:19:59
    you're 25 and your prefrontal cortex
  • 00:20:01
    doesn't fully form, right? Your fully
  • 00:20:03
    form, right? Anybody you date beyond
  • 00:20:05
    that age, right? You are just you don't
  • 00:20:07
    know what you're doing. My my dilemma
  • 00:20:09
    here is that if let's say I have a
  • 00:20:11
    younger sibling, 18 years old already
  • 00:20:13
    now, okay, out there dating and other
  • 00:20:15
    kind of thing, right? Exploring
  • 00:20:16
    themselves and other people, right?
  • 00:20:18
    Would I rather they date somebody with
  • 00:20:20
    more experience, older, wiser and all
  • 00:20:22
    that? Or why rather they mess around
  • 00:20:24
    with people around their age who also
  • 00:20:25
    don't know what the [ __ ] they doing?
  • 00:20:26
    Yeah. Yeah. There's that debate. So
  • 00:20:29
    either way, so like maybe there's a a
  • 00:20:31
    crazy 18, 19 year old that is also
  • 00:20:34
    extremely emotionally manipulative and
  • 00:20:36
    whatever, right? Is going to take
  • 00:20:37
    advantage or abuse my my sibling, right?
  • 00:20:40
    Then how also I met Pat at 15 and I
  • 00:20:42
    meet, right? If I met Pat in my 20 in my
  • 00:20:45
    late 20s, right? Or early 30s, right? We
  • 00:20:47
    may not date. Oh, why? Because we are
  • 00:20:49
    fundamentally very different people. P
  • 00:20:52
    and I are very different people. I think
  • 00:20:53
    if you know us long enough, you'll know
  • 00:20:54
    that we're extremely different people.
  • 00:20:55
    We have a lot in common. Yes, we
  • 00:20:57
    compliment each other. Yes. But we are
  • 00:20:59
    fundamentally very very different
  • 00:21:00
    people. And if I met her at a stage
  • 00:21:03
    where I know who I am and I know what I
  • 00:21:04
    want in life, we may not. I don't think
  • 00:21:06
    I got her unless it's really just all
  • 00:21:07
    cuz she pretty, you know, like it has to
  • 00:21:09
    be something almost that superficial cuz
  • 00:21:11
    like she's very pretty, you know, which
  • 00:21:12
    I feel like in secondary school she very
  • 00:21:15
    pretty enough. Yeah enough she very
  • 00:21:18
    enough and and the fact that oh like she
  • 00:21:20
    don't like this then never mind I'll
  • 00:21:22
    just be someone else
  • 00:21:24
    she don't like this thing about me never
  • 00:21:26
    mind I will just change like it's [ __ ]
  • 00:21:29
    that you would do when you you are sub
  • 00:21:31
    20 you know but at a certain age you're
  • 00:21:33
    like this is what I want I know who I am
  • 00:21:34
    I'm strong independent woman I don't
  • 00:21:36
    need no man you know when you reach that
  • 00:21:37
    phase in life you're trying to find a
  • 00:21:38
    puzzle that somewhat fits 98% then
  • 00:21:40
    you're willing to adjust 2% then p and I
  • 00:21:43
    would not have gotten together so I
  • 00:21:45
    agree ree with you that I don't know
  • 00:21:47
    whether age is the thing but you
  • 00:21:50
    understand why the law exists to protect
  • 00:21:52
    people so not arguing that so I have a
  • 00:21:55
    checklist right to kind of identify
  • 00:21:57
    whether you may potentially be you are
  • 00:22:00
    being groomed oh I
  • 00:22:02
    thought not
  • 00:22:03
    yet I would love to know that one yeah
  • 00:22:06
    so actually when I read the list just to
  • 00:22:08
    to set some pretext right when I read
  • 00:22:10
    the list right honestly sounds a bit
  • 00:22:11
    confusing sounds like a normal
  • 00:22:12
    relationship oh no it's not
  • 00:22:16
    the right guy. Okay. So, the first one
  • 00:22:19
    is excessive compliments. So, they give
  • 00:22:22
    an example. You're so mature for your
  • 00:22:24
    age. Ah, which to me sounds like
  • 00:22:26
    something you might say to somebody you
  • 00:22:28
    meet. I don't know. Say that to me
  • 00:22:30
    before, right? Okay.
  • 00:22:33
    Always will come from to be older to
  • 00:22:35
    groom me
  • 00:22:37
    or kids groom each other. If
  • 00:22:40
    you're something you always hear from
  • 00:22:42
    older person to the younger person,
  • 00:22:44
    correct? the mature for you can't say to
  • 00:22:46
    a person of your own age for age. You
  • 00:22:48
    can say no. You should be the one who's
  • 00:22:50
    mature. If you know it comes across as
  • 00:22:51
    an insult
  • 00:22:52
    like you see mature for your
  • 00:22:57
    age m
  • 00:23:02
    you're so mature for your age. Yeah.
  • 00:23:06
    It always feel like something that an
  • 00:23:07
    observation that will be made by an
  • 00:23:08
    older person. Yeah. But not not I am 20.
  • 00:23:11
    I don't know what is the 20-y old
  • 00:23:12
    maturity versus 30-y old maturity. Okay.
  • 00:23:14
    But but if a if a 30-year-old says it to
  • 00:23:16
    a 14y old girl, now it
  • 00:23:18
    seems very weird. It's almost like he's
  • 00:23:20
    talking to himself. He's like
  • 00:23:22
    justifying. But what here at like those
  • 00:23:25
    family gathering, right? Like the auntie
  • 00:23:27
    say to the another child like cousin,
  • 00:23:30
    wow, she's so mature for her age. Yeah.
  • 00:23:32
    Then you move to number two of the
  • 00:23:36
    one.
  • 00:23:40
    Okay. So the second one is isolation
  • 00:23:42
    from peers/ family. There you go.
  • 00:23:46
    Your auntie bring you aside separately
  • 00:23:48
    and you see technically if you are
  • 00:23:50
    dating somebody you all mostly go
  • 00:23:52
    oneonone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is
  • 00:23:54
    that not isolation from peers and
  • 00:23:56
    family? I always bring the
  • 00:23:58
    group in case I borrow him. Okay. The
  • 00:24:02
    third one is secret communication.
  • 00:24:05
    Oh like the karaoke app that the guy
  • 00:24:07
    logged into to talk to the girl. Wait,
  • 00:24:09
    what? So Ian Vang logged into after like
  • 00:24:11
    the whole like they had a little breakup
  • 00:24:13
    going on. Then he apparently logged into
  • 00:24:15
    this app karaoke app on the phone where
  • 00:24:18
    she had a private room to sing songs in
  • 00:24:19
    and then he talked to her in that way
  • 00:24:21
    which I believe by the way is the models
  • 00:24:22
    apparently of quite a few of these
  • 00:24:24
    groomers and why does that function
  • 00:24:26
    exist in a karaoke? Please someone
  • 00:24:28
    explain. I don't have karaoke. Wait. So
  • 00:24:29
    so I I don't understand what this koke
  • 00:24:31
    app is. So she basically live streams
  • 00:24:33
    her just singing. I don't think she
  • 00:24:35
    li anyway. Anyway, point is secret
  • 00:24:38
    communication. technically one-on-one
  • 00:24:40
    with somebody you have your own Telegram
  • 00:24:41
    chats kind of stuff self-destructive
  • 00:24:44
    kind of likeation right and then the
  • 00:24:46
    last one is gradual boundary pushing
  • 00:24:50
    which no just let him finish
  • 00:24:53
    yeah what like at the beginning when you
  • 00:24:55
    meet somebody you start dating you
  • 00:24:57
    slowly you are unpeeling each other's
  • 00:24:59
    layers no okay and that is this gradual
  • 00:25:02
    boundary pushing right so it all makes
  • 00:25:05
    sense I can see how you of dating I can
  • 00:25:08
    see how you would see this as this a
  • 00:25:09
    normal relationship. Oh, I see. I see.
  • 00:25:11
    Most of them make sense. The only the
  • 00:25:13
    only part that is different is that one
  • 00:25:16
    is one is under. So basically the
  • 00:25:18
    checklist group is how old is he? Yeah.
  • 00:25:21
    That's the only thing. But I mean each
  • 00:25:22
    one of those you can also see for
  • 00:25:24
    instance the the isolating part. You are
  • 00:25:25
    a 33 year old 35 year old and then
  • 00:25:28
    there's a 16y old 50y old and you are
  • 00:25:30
    taking them away from people their age
  • 00:25:31
    cuz other people their age will notice
  • 00:25:33
    the differences. They'll be like why you
  • 00:25:34
    always hang out with this uncle. Okay I
  • 00:25:35
    got it. It's not so much are you in a
  • 00:25:37
    relationship and this all applies oh my
  • 00:25:39
    god are you grooming are you being
  • 00:25:40
    groomed it's more of that if you have a
  • 00:25:42
    relationship with the older person it
  • 00:25:43
    could be purely kosher it could be a
  • 00:25:45
    mentor relationship but if any of this
  • 00:25:47
    happens then you're being groomed you
  • 00:25:49
    have to satisfy the first criteria first
  • 00:25:51
    if you are 14 and your relationship with
  • 00:25:53
    older person I see but I can no because
  • 00:25:55
    of this list right I can kind of
  • 00:25:57
    understand how children can fall victim
  • 00:25:58
    to it because to them they think that
  • 00:26:00
    they're experiencing a relationship yeah
  • 00:26:02
    because everything is the same except
  • 00:26:04
    for the one word minor Yeah, especially
  • 00:26:06
    if there's like something like an
  • 00:26:08
    emotional gap like that you may be
  • 00:26:10
    experiencing like maybe didn't have
  • 00:26:12
    enough parenthood for example
  • 00:26:16
    which is why it goes back right people
  • 00:26:17
    who who end up doing this kind of stuff
  • 00:26:19
    like yenfang right like I feel like they
  • 00:26:21
    themselves also maybe gone through some
  • 00:26:22
    weird [ __ ] you know like and then it
  • 00:26:25
    ends up [ __ ] them up in some way and
  • 00:26:27
    then this becomes the the this is how it
  • 00:26:29
    manifests but I thought like I'm still
  • 00:26:32
    surprised this happens cuz I thought
  • 00:26:33
    like it's already put out there the
  • 00:26:36
    punishment for it. Like is it not harsh
  • 00:26:38
    enough, right, for them to like not do
  • 00:26:40
    it? Yeah. Or like prevent them from
  • 00:26:43
    considering doing this. The preggain
  • 00:26:45
    relationship was so strong that he was
  • 00:26:47
    confident that she is in it and she will
  • 00:26:50
    not wreck him out. Yeah. But the STD
  • 00:26:53
    betray them, right? Is the role of STD
  • 00:26:56
    in society. Yeah. Cuz if you're in a
  • 00:26:57
    relationship like right now, you you you
  • 00:27:00
    really purely love your your partner.
  • 00:27:02
    You trust them. You trust that they
  • 00:27:03
    wouldn't like betray you in any way. No,
  • 00:27:05
    but I don't know. Like let's say we up
  • 00:27:06
    the punishment, right? 20 years in jail
  • 00:27:09
    will like prevent people for even doing
  • 00:27:11
    this or So you're saying the grooming
  • 00:27:12
    should be more punished. I feel like
  • 00:27:15
    like No, I asking like if their sentence
  • 00:27:16
    also cannot stop people from bringing
  • 00:27:19
    drugs. Yeah. Like I wonder if if there
  • 00:27:20
    can be a higher punishment, right? Would
  • 00:27:23
    it really prevent like I think I think
  • 00:27:25
    this particular Ian fun case is the one
  • 00:27:29
    because his identity was revealed. I
  • 00:27:31
    think this Ian fun case is very very
  • 00:27:33
    landmark because cuz he's a celebrity.
  • 00:27:36
    Cuz he's a celebrity and the mom say
  • 00:27:37
    let's dox him or whoever. Maybe maybe
  • 00:27:40
    it's a girl that says it. Yeah, but
  • 00:27:41
    let's do him. Maybe we should have a
  • 00:27:43
    name and shame board like once you
  • 00:27:45
    commit this kind of crime, right? You
  • 00:27:47
    should your name and your picture right
  • 00:27:49
    like your jail picture. I don't know
  • 00:27:50
    what's the picture called will be there
  • 00:27:53
    and then if someone like want to search
  • 00:27:54
    you next time, right? You it will come
  • 00:27:56
    out like a sexual offender list. I think
  • 00:27:58
    one of the main issues why the law may
  • 00:28:00
    be that way is because when it comes to
  • 00:28:03
    especially with like sexual assault
  • 00:28:05
    cases and all that kind of stuff, right,
  • 00:28:06
    there are a lot of blind spots and gray
  • 00:28:08
    areas and so evidence, right, is usually
  • 00:28:11
    very hard to prove because it's your
  • 00:28:14
    word against mine. Everything happened
  • 00:28:16
    in a private setting. True, true, true.
  • 00:28:19
    If you actually read like the accounts
  • 00:28:20
    from the judges, it's always whose story
  • 00:28:22
    was more coherent, more reliable,
  • 00:28:25
    trustworthy witness. Yeah. And then and
  • 00:28:26
    we talk about like having a society that
  • 00:28:28
    want to give second chance and rehab
  • 00:28:29
    people kind of [ __ ] right? Then that
  • 00:28:31
    sounds like it does completely the
  • 00:28:33
    opposite. Where where do we actually
  • 00:28:34
    draw the line when it comes to second
  • 00:28:35
    chances cuz we feel like okay there is a
  • 00:28:37
    certain amount of crime that okay
  • 00:28:38
    everyone deserves a second chance yellow
  • 00:28:40
    ribbon. Um where where do we actually
  • 00:28:42
    draw the line on that? Because there are
  • 00:28:43
    going to be somewhere this person needs
  • 00:28:44
    to be condemned for life. That's true.
  • 00:28:45
    Like if I see like a little boy like
  • 00:28:48
    step the care through the I think I
  • 00:28:49
    cannot give second chance. But he was
  • 00:28:52
    just a boy like he didn't know any
  • 00:28:53
    better. So each of us have our own like
  • 00:28:54
    lines like what is like an unforgivable
  • 00:28:57
    crime. But I think that's why the point
  • 00:28:58
    of like oh life without parole like
  • 00:29:00
    exists right so that the the at some
  • 00:29:02
    point in your punishment the judges can
  • 00:29:04
    decide whether or not you're worthy of
  • 00:29:05
    being back into society whether you can
  • 00:29:06
    reintegrate with your friend. By the
  • 00:29:08
    way, the whole thing about I think
  • 00:29:09
    naming your the the guys who did do
  • 00:29:11
    these offenses later, right? I think
  • 00:29:12
    there's a small drawback to this and
  • 00:29:14
    it's actually related to why Infang is
  • 00:29:15
    such a big landmark case is because as
  • 00:29:17
    celebrity you can't really pinpoint the
  • 00:29:19
    victim from the perpetrator's name. But
  • 00:29:21
    the small scale v perpetrators if you
  • 00:29:23
    identify them there is a much higher
  • 00:29:25
    chance you can identify the victim based
  • 00:29:27
    off of that. Then the victim if they get
  • 00:29:29
    like let's say there's not not a
  • 00:29:31
    celebrity a normal guy he's got like 20
  • 00:29:32
    pictures and then you can see in three
  • 00:29:33
    of them there's this girl who looks
  • 00:29:35
    young. No, in many of these cases,
  • 00:29:36
    right, it happens to family members. So,
  • 00:29:38
    literally become, oh, this person was
  • 00:29:40
    the uncle, so this person was the son.
  • 00:29:41
    And that's how the story I mean, it's
  • 00:29:43
    the father. So, then this how the story
  • 00:29:44
    comes out. Then after I tell you who the
  • 00:29:46
    father is, oh, it's not your father is
  • 00:29:47
    yet. Okay. So, I want to twist the
  • 00:29:48
    situation a bit for you. What if he came
  • 00:29:50
    to you before, right? What if he came to
  • 00:29:52
    you when he realized that the mother
  • 00:29:54
    threatening to go to court or something
  • 00:29:55
    and make the report, right? And then he
  • 00:29:57
    came and tell you and you are the best
  • 00:29:59
    friend. What will you do in that
  • 00:30:00
    situation? What the bro? Okay. I will I
  • 00:30:04
    will I will
  • 00:30:06
    what are you doing? Yeah. So judgment
  • 00:30:08
    aside after you finish the judging part.
  • 00:30:10
    Okay. After the judging right as a
  • 00:30:12
    friend I feel like I will still want to
  • 00:30:14
    know why the like the thought process
  • 00:30:16
    like so he told you then end with what?
  • 00:30:19
    Yeah.
  • 00:30:22
    So I I think the point here is a lot a
  • 00:30:25
    lot of people are you not what not what
  • 00:30:26
    you want right? So how can you be a
  • 00:30:28
    friend for him or not? I I think a lot
  • 00:30:31
    of people belong to to to one of two
  • 00:30:33
    camps. One is that I could never be
  • 00:30:34
    friends with a pedophile. I immediately
  • 00:30:36
    like stop all contact and then like you
  • 00:30:37
    are on your own brother, not even
  • 00:30:39
    brother anymore. But then there's also
  • 00:30:41
    other people which I feel like we
  • 00:30:42
    shouldn't judge them which will feel
  • 00:30:44
    like okay my my value as a friend
  • 00:30:46
    shouldn't only be during good times. I I
  • 00:30:49
    I can't just be judged as a fair weather
  • 00:30:51
    friend. So if I have a friend who
  • 00:30:52
    obviously did some stupid [ __ ] made
  • 00:30:54
    some really bad decisions and now is in
  • 00:30:56
    deep [ __ ] my value of a friend comes at
  • 00:30:59
    these moments and I need to be there for
  • 00:31:00
    that person even though I disagree with
  • 00:31:01
    what they've done. I personally have
  • 00:31:03
    absolutely no idea where I stand between
  • 00:31:05
    those things because I feel like I could
  • 00:31:06
    easily easily cross either place but I
  • 00:31:09
    feel logically I want to be that second
  • 00:31:11
    friend. I want to be the friend that is
  • 00:31:13
    going to hit you, is going to slap you
  • 00:31:15
    but is going to be there for you even
  • 00:31:17
    though I disagree what you did. How to
  • 00:31:19
    be there for him? You think I think
  • 00:31:21
    right now obviously he's obviously done
  • 00:31:23
    a lot of bad things but he's probably
  • 00:31:24
    going through a lot of emotional
  • 00:31:25
    distress right now because as a
  • 00:31:27
    celebrity to have this attached to this
  • 00:31:29
    your your your life is done your career
  • 00:31:31
    is done for right so he's obviously
  • 00:31:33
    going through a lot he probably would
  • 00:31:34
    think that he rather kill himself like
  • 00:31:35
    he said to the mother now you want to be
  • 00:31:37
    a friend to try and preserve his life at
  • 00:31:39
    least I would think the second is to
  • 00:31:41
    have to just be there to be someone to
  • 00:31:43
    talk to because clearly it sounds like
  • 00:31:45
    as though he didn't have anyone to talk
  • 00:31:46
    to the fact that he could go down this
  • 00:31:47
    path and be with this girl for many like
  • 00:31:49
    years or whatever, he didn't have
  • 00:31:50
    someone to talk to to talk him out of
  • 00:31:52
    this thing. So now I probably would
  • 00:31:54
    think that I want to be a good friend to
  • 00:31:56
    to talk to him and and go through his
  • 00:31:58
    entire thought process. So I I feel like
  • 00:32:00
    I want to try and be that second friend,
  • 00:32:02
    but I might end up being that first
  • 00:32:03
    friend just out of an emotional like
  • 00:32:05
    knee-jerk reaction. I don't know which
  • 00:32:06
    is right, which is wrong. I'm unable to
  • 00:32:08
    be the first friend. I try. I can't to
  • 00:32:11
    just say no. Like oh my god, you did
  • 00:32:13
    something so terrible. Now you're dead
  • 00:32:15
    to me, right? I unable to be this kind
  • 00:32:17
    of friend. like even at my own detriment
  • 00:32:19
    throughout my life and as a result there
  • 00:32:21
    are often times where you get pulled
  • 00:32:23
    down on the same like I remember my
  • 00:32:26
    knee-jerk reaction to do the cost stuff
  • 00:32:27
    is so let's just let's bring here let's
  • 00:32:29
    hear from his side I got crucified for
  • 00:32:31
    that right yeah people like why you give
  • 00:32:32
    me a platform but there was but then why
  • 00:32:35
    you watch
  • 00:32:38
    they can't really he's here well I feel
  • 00:32:41
    like I'm the opposite so okay the only
  • 00:32:43
    time I ever thought about this
  • 00:32:44
    circumstance is like okay let's say my
  • 00:32:45
    friend cheat on his partner whatever
  • 00:32:47
    Yeah.
  • 00:32:50
    [Music]
  • 00:32:52
    No crime. Yeah. Yeah. But we have
  • 00:32:55
    a
  • 00:32:57
    wrong that kind of thing, right? If you
  • 00:32:59
    still want to stay in the relationship,
  • 00:33:00
    blah blah blah blah blah, right? You
  • 00:33:01
    want to take it to the grave forever.
  • 00:33:03
    But or fess up, you know, and see. But
  • 00:33:06
    he needs you to be complicit to cover
  • 00:33:08
    it.
  • 00:33:09
    I'm going to keep going. You better not
  • 00:33:10
    say anything. No. Later my wife's going
  • 00:33:13
    to call you and I need her to say y. So
  • 00:33:15
    So this one all right. I'm like gray
  • 00:33:17
    area 50/50. But I think I will tell him
  • 00:33:19
    you cannot let it be pinned on me. First
  • 00:33:22
    nothing about you. So your whole thing
  • 00:33:24
    is about self-preservation. He cannot
  • 00:33:27
    try to use me to cover up his mistake.
  • 00:33:29
    Right. Right. Right. He cannot say no.
  • 00:33:31
    But that's his whole thing. JP brought
  • 00:33:32
    me to the you call JP he he will prove
  • 00:33:34
    that I was where wherever you know I say
  • 00:33:37
    no I'm not going to play and be in your
  • 00:33:39
    life. I'm not in your relationship. But
  • 00:33:40
    if he say don't say then you don't say
  • 00:33:43
    like you don't go out of your way. No.
  • 00:33:44
    But that time you make sure your wife
  • 00:33:45
    don't call me or you make sure your wife
  • 00:33:46
    don't ask me. Well, I'm negotiating but
  • 00:33:48
    fair. Okay. Okay. So, I got lines. I
  • 00:33:52
    got test. Let's test this out. Okay. I
  • 00:33:56
    will take your secret to Okay. So, you
  • 00:33:57
    will take my secret to the grave, right?
  • 00:33:58
    As long as I don't ask my wife, I can't
  • 00:33:59
    ask you anything. And then one day like,
  • 00:34:01
    "Hello, John. I am John Tras's wife."
  • 00:34:04
    Okay. Hi, Pet. Okay. Hi, I'm Yeah,
  • 00:34:07
    that's
  • 00:34:10
    hi. John John said he was with you like
  • 00:34:13
    last like last Monday. Was he true? Last
  • 00:34:17
    Monday. I think so. Hey, I got to go.
  • 00:34:22
    I must call you. I should call you. No,
  • 00:34:25
    but we had a check. We had a check. I
  • 00:34:28
    know. [ __ ] you. Calling me.
  • 00:34:37
    Okay. After all that, why don't call me?
  • 00:34:43
    No. John Paul made a mistake. He call
  • 00:34:44
    him then later answer. Oh [ __ ] She got
  • 00:34:47
    both phones. I cannot call you. Just
  • 00:34:48
    shut up. Yeah. Yeah. Then John is tied
  • 00:34:50
    to a chair.
  • 00:34:53
    Oh my days. Okay. Okay. But with
  • 00:34:56
    cheating, right? With cheating. I'm
  • 00:34:57
    already like that. So if you tell me you
  • 00:35:00
    a child I think I have to be like I
  • 00:35:03
    cannot we
  • 00:35:06
    just turn him if he was going through
  • 00:35:09
    this struggle and he was telling me hey
  • 00:35:11
    bro I struggling attracted to [ __ ]
  • 00:35:12
    little children that the entire time but
  • 00:35:14
    you haven't take action all this kind of
  • 00:35:15
    thing right let's let me help you I
  • 00:35:18
    steady but you go too far already yeah I
  • 00:35:21
    see wait so I think it's more reasonable
  • 00:35:23
    to ask you since you are on the other
  • 00:35:26
    side of the fence right now to clarify.
  • 00:35:28
    No. So, so for example, with a friend
  • 00:35:30
    that did all this, right? To me, maybe
  • 00:35:32
    if you call me, I'll say, "Okay, I do
  • 00:35:33
    you one last favor." If because you
  • 00:35:35
    desperately need some somebody and
  • 00:35:37
    something and our friendship did mean
  • 00:35:38
    something, I do it for you. After that,
  • 00:35:40
    just bye-bye. Okay. Then, but in your
  • 00:35:43
    case, you will be like, I will fully
  • 00:35:45
    help you and support you and be there
  • 00:35:46
    for you forever and we are still bests.
  • 00:35:49
    Exaggeration. Then, then what does it
  • 00:35:51
    look like for you? To me, I think the
  • 00:35:52
    friendship does not actually change. I
  • 00:35:54
    think the circumstance change unless
  • 00:35:57
    unless the people you hurt are people
  • 00:35:58
    that I know or me or I care about. Yeah.
  • 00:36:00
    So for example, if my friends cheat and
  • 00:36:02
    I know your partner, I'll call him out
  • 00:36:04
    cuz the other person also my friend,
  • 00:36:06
    right? And I'm anti- cheating. So that's
  • 00:36:08
    that's also one weird line. Yeah. But I
  • 00:36:10
    think in this situation, right, I'll be
  • 00:36:12
    like, you want go for drinks? I don't
  • 00:36:14
    drink, you know, but yeah, you know,
  • 00:36:15
    come house for drinks. I go house for
  • 00:36:17
    drinks. You know, like you don't need
  • 00:36:18
    someone, you need a friend. I'll just
  • 00:36:19
    chill like just so you don't and
  • 00:36:22
    yourself also. Every time you meet this
  • 00:36:24
    person and hang out with him, right,
  • 00:36:26
    when you see his face, you remember him
  • 00:36:28
    forever. Yeah. But my brain's not
  • 00:36:29
    worried not wired like that. Okay. Okay.
  • 00:36:31
    Yeah. Cuz like I mean I worked so my
  • 00:36:33
    life and the the truth is that the
  • 00:36:36
    mistakes stick in my head. All the
  • 00:36:38
    employees that like make major mistakes
  • 00:36:39
    that we lost money on. But I don't you
  • 00:36:42
    know what I mean? I don't look at you
  • 00:36:43
    look at mistake. But money mis money
  • 00:36:45
    mistake is very different from violating
  • 00:36:48
    her and and taking advantage of like
  • 00:36:50
    okay so like for example if if let's say
  • 00:36:52
    let's do because I feel like something
  • 00:36:53
    similar actually happened right like but
  • 00:36:56
    I'm not I'm not proud of this okay I'm
  • 00:36:57
    just describing this who I'm not saying
  • 00:36:59
    this right if call me and be like you my
  • 00:37:02
    answer wouldn't be like bro why why did
  • 00:37:05
    you you know like to me is that you
  • 00:37:07
    you've gone through all that with your
  • 00:37:08
    family already you've gone through all
  • 00:37:09
    that with the internet already you gone
  • 00:37:11
    through all that with the news and media
  • 00:37:12
    already and the courts already like I'll
  • 00:37:15
    just be like
  • 00:37:17
    then he like try and get a chuckle out
  • 00:37:19
    of him that there's no more explaining
  • 00:37:21
    to be done. Yeah. like there's no more
  • 00:37:23
    like a why did you why did you really
  • 00:37:25
    man to me I feel like there's a time and
  • 00:37:27
    place for that you initiate that like
  • 00:37:29
    when like which eventually did like a
  • 00:37:31
    AMA because personally I don't like
  • 00:37:32
    being judged like as someone that's
  • 00:37:34
    extremely judgmental in nature right
  • 00:37:36
    you're afraid to be judged also like you
  • 00:37:38
    like I' I've noticed that I always think
  • 00:37:40
    about how people perceive me because I'm
  • 00:37:42
    I'm constantly sitting there judging
  • 00:37:43
    people right that's why you think people
  • 00:37:44
    sitting there constantly judging you
  • 00:37:46
    that may or may not be true you see but
  • 00:37:48
    because as someone like that even then
  • 00:37:50
    you will make mistakes You know, even if
  • 00:37:52
    like I run a business, it doesn't mean
  • 00:37:54
    that I do everything right by the book
  • 00:37:56
    100% each time. Sometimes I can't
  • 00:37:58
    supposed to put on Monday, I never pull
  • 00:37:59
    on Monday. I just go straight to that
  • 00:38:01
    person, right? It's not like every
  • 00:38:02
    single copy I give you my 200%. Some
  • 00:38:04
    days you get me on a rough time, I only
  • 00:38:06
    got half a day to do it, then you get
  • 00:38:07
    whatever time I have, you know, and but
  • 00:38:10
    and this is coming from the head of the
  • 00:38:11
    business, which is supposed to be the
  • 00:38:13
    highest level of quality control for the
  • 00:38:14
    business by right, you know, and that
  • 00:38:17
    still doesn't happen all the time. And
  • 00:38:19
    whenever I get caught like John this
  • 00:38:21
    this can't be your best work to me
  • 00:38:23
    intern like we explain to the client
  • 00:38:25
    right but internally right the judgment
  • 00:38:27
    is over we know the circumstance that
  • 00:38:29
    got us here. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like
  • 00:38:31
    a shy
  • 00:38:33
    done what do you need? Yeah, I I I
  • 00:38:36
    understand which is why I I I brought up
  • 00:38:38
    the the firstly that dichotomy and also
  • 00:38:41
    the the previous question about where
  • 00:38:43
    does the line where's the line drawn
  • 00:38:45
    when it comes to second chances because
  • 00:38:46
    okay that has to do with the law right
  • 00:38:47
    where's the second chance when it comes
  • 00:38:48
    to you being a active citizen again and
  • 00:38:51
    coming back trying to reintegrate back
  • 00:38:52
    into society but I think it also comes
  • 00:38:54
    back to whether you deserve to have a
  • 00:38:56
    life and by a life do you deserve to
  • 00:38:58
    have a social life do you deserve to
  • 00:38:59
    have a family after that you made a
  • 00:39:01
    mistake when you were 34 it is a
  • 00:39:03
    terrible mistake it's a heinous crime
  • 00:39:05
    But once you learned your lesson
  • 00:39:06
    already, you did your time. Do you
  • 00:39:08
    deserve to come back and try again
  • 00:39:10
    knowing that you completely put that
  • 00:39:12
    past life behind you, you're absolutely
  • 00:39:14
    sorry for your mistakes. And I feel like
  • 00:39:16
    to some extent, yes, I hope I hope
  • 00:39:18
    someone is able to still have that. And
  • 00:39:21
    if that means you're able to maybe start
  • 00:39:23
    new like create new friends, I feel like
  • 00:39:25
    people at the end, depending on where
  • 00:39:27
    the line is regarding the crimes or
  • 00:39:29
    whatever, deserve to to rebuild
  • 00:39:32
    eventually. And I feel like with the
  • 00:39:33
    case with given what he's good at and
  • 00:39:36
    what he can do and with the celebrity
  • 00:39:38
    the crime was terrible he deserves to do
  • 00:39:40
    his time I don't know whether he can
  • 00:39:41
    rebuild and I think that's where you you
  • 00:39:43
    need your friend I don't think he can
  • 00:39:44
    rebuild in the same way that how he
  • 00:39:46
    built his old life but he will have to
  • 00:39:47
    rebuild as some form doing something
  • 00:39:49
    else or I I also realized when you say
  • 00:39:51
    that right one of the things that
  • 00:39:52
    crossed my mind is let's say at time of
  • 00:39:54
    incident we draw a line in the sand in
  • 00:39:56
    terms of our timeline right my
  • 00:39:58
    expectation is that here on out and then
  • 00:40:02
    once again this is my own mental problem
  • 00:40:04
    here on out right I am tainted to the
  • 00:40:06
    new people I meet if let's say I'm and
  • 00:40:09
    the victim aside right my current
  • 00:40:11
    friends right my expectation will be my
  • 00:40:13
    current friends from here on out will
  • 00:40:15
    know me before I was tainted that's the
  • 00:40:17
    opposite of how I will feel exactly yeah
  • 00:40:19
    to me my mind right is you are tainted
  • 00:40:21
    in my memory now forever I will always
  • 00:40:23
    look at you as that guy who did that
  • 00:40:24
    thing because to me it's like if there's
  • 00:40:26
    a like I draw this distinction in my
  • 00:40:27
    mind like if it's a a victimless crime
  • 00:40:29
    and and a crime with a victim like you
  • 00:40:31
    go and rob a corporation, I don't really
  • 00:40:32
    give a [ __ ] what you do. That's just
  • 00:40:33
    money. It's just a company. But if you
  • 00:40:35
    hurt somebody, you and not to mention a
  • 00:40:37
    child, right? To me, I'm forever going
  • 00:40:38
    to be remembering you as the person who
  • 00:40:40
    did that to that person. Whether whether
  • 00:40:42
    a friend, you know, in that book is what
  • 00:40:44
    I'm trying to be or not. I
  • 00:40:47
    can't in life. I say that from the point
  • 00:40:49
    of I think that's why also I have
  • 00:40:53
    different expectations of the people
  • 00:40:54
    around me and then the people around me
  • 00:40:56
    have different expectations of me. Yeah.
  • 00:40:57
    Because we go around this line of
  • 00:40:58
    conversation. That to me is where I
  • 00:41:00
    would Yeah. Whether you deal a second
  • 00:41:01
    chance is who did you hurt and to what
  • 00:41:03
    extent? Yeah, you know
  • 00:41:07
    you lielong trauma that's not only
  • 00:41:11
    whether you deserve a second chance or
  • 00:41:12
    not is one thing whether I can even be
  • 00:41:14
    your friend ever again or I don't know
  • 00:41:16
    if I can whether I'm so that I can clean
  • 00:41:19
    my mind of that memory and treat you
  • 00:41:21
    different like treat you before that pre
  • 00:41:23
    crime like PC or post
  • 00:41:27
    postime no I don't think so I mean no
  • 00:41:29
    but I think if it's family member I
  • 00:41:31
    different I think I'll be like you yeah
  • 00:41:33
    Cuz who else the person have left other
  • 00:41:36
    than wouldn't by your logic be more
  • 00:41:39
    disgusted with family? actually say no.
  • 00:41:41
    I agree with disgusted but my
  • 00:41:43
    willingness right to pull through the
  • 00:41:45
    dis disgustingness and still like like
  • 00:41:49
    day in day out I be living with a cat
  • 00:41:51
    killer like
  • 00:41:53
    I love my family that much that I will
  • 00:41:57
    be willing to stick out take out not say
  • 00:41:59
    I'm supporting whatever crime they did
  • 00:42:01
    right but I think I'll be more willing
  • 00:42:02
    to actually like be there in my capacity
  • 00:42:07
    for my family member. Right. Right.
  • 00:42:09
    Right. No, no, no. I I think in the same
  • 00:42:10
    way that's that's the same lens I apply
  • 00:42:12
    to my circle. I'm think when when you
  • 00:42:14
    say that I'm thinking of a person I'm
  • 00:42:15
    close to not someone that because we are
  • 00:42:17
    in this industry we know everybody.
  • 00:42:19
    Yeah. But they um one or multiple arms
  • 00:42:22
    lang away. I'm not talking about if it
  • 00:42:24
    happens to them I suddenly will go and
  • 00:42:25
    be your very close friend and the only
  • 00:42:27
    one that's there for you. No I mean if
  • 00:42:29
    we are good friends now and you did a
  • 00:42:31
    mistake you got caught everyone gives
  • 00:42:33
    you [ __ ] for it. Whatever let's say if
  • 00:42:36
    it's then like whatever friendship we
  • 00:42:38
    have that's the friendship that we have
  • 00:42:39
    you [ __ ] got caught right but you
  • 00:42:42
    have to for the rest of our life deal
  • 00:42:43
    with me making like jokes like hey there
  • 00:42:46
    got younger you know then you know what
  • 00:42:48
    I mean whether or not you you had that
  • 00:42:51
    kind of tendencies or really maybe the
  • 00:42:53
    girl just very mature and then maybe you
  • 00:42:54
    just no luck with girls then there's
  • 00:42:56
    only a segment of girls that is
  • 00:42:57
    susceptible to you nothing to do with
  • 00:42:58
    your sexual tendencies like whatever it
  • 00:43:00
    is you did it you know it's wrong the
  • 00:43:03
    whole world know it's wrong they told
  • 00:43:04
    you to your face repeatedly is wrong you
  • 00:43:05
    and you got caught you you know that but
  • 00:43:09
    our friendship don't change no right you
  • 00:43:11
    see right I mean but prison change you
  • 00:43:13
    then that might change our friendship
  • 00:43:14
    right the media the way the media
  • 00:43:16
    attacks you and then makes you change as
  • 00:43:18
    a person that might change our
  • 00:43:20
    friendship but whatever you did as of
  • 00:43:23
    now doesn't change our friendship is how
  • 00:43:24
    I process so there is an onus to be my
  • 00:43:27
    friend right it's very important that
  • 00:43:30
    like and and when you say that I think
  • 00:43:32
    about the NCO saga right when certain
  • 00:43:34
    things happen certain friendship
  • 00:43:37
    actually can still carry on because
  • 00:43:39
    they're not very much affected and it's
  • 00:43:41
    not say victimless but it's not like
  • 00:43:43
    it's not like rape you know it's not
  • 00:43:45
    like it's not violence it's I pay like
  • 00:43:46
    share you do working hours maybe I'm
  • 00:43:48
    mentally torture you I still understand
  • 00:43:50
    torturous I understand but at the end of
  • 00:43:52
    the day like certain friendships can
  • 00:43:54
    still actually be kept that people that
  • 00:43:56
    are quite not impacted but then do you
  • 00:43:58
    like Ryan for example was very conscious
  • 00:44:01
    that he he's like tainted by media
  • 00:44:03
    Right. Right. So when I ask him do are
  • 00:44:05
    you okay with me and not he's like you
  • 00:44:06
    sure you want me to do this right I will
  • 00:44:08
    thank your show you know or even like
  • 00:44:09
    you okay to be seen with me outside not
  • 00:44:11
    because there was a period like we go
  • 00:44:12
    for dinner I take picture. Wow. Yeah. So
  • 00:44:15
    like then he's like oh are you okay to
  • 00:44:17
    be are you okay you know are you okay to
  • 00:44:20
    be and and I I quite like respect that
  • 00:44:22
    like like Ryan told me that are you okay
  • 00:44:25
    to be tainted by association. Wow. But
  • 00:44:27
    it's so heavy to be that aware of that.
  • 00:44:30
    It's such a heavy burden to bear. But
  • 00:44:31
    then you must be able of which I say I'm
  • 00:44:33
    okay right but you must be able to take
  • 00:44:36
    it right when someone say no my new
  • 00:44:39
    career in showbase is on the rise as
  • 00:44:41
    such bro yeah not not to further the
  • 00:44:43
    conversation for this right but I think
  • 00:44:45
    then for you an interesting scenario
  • 00:44:46
    will be like a checkmate scenario for
  • 00:44:48
    you right is if like let's say your very
  • 00:44:50
    close friend and like let's say your
  • 00:44:52
    family something happens in between then
  • 00:44:56
    one is the victim one is the like the
  • 00:44:58
    aggressor what right then now you are in
  • 00:45:00
    a checkmate situation
  • 00:45:01
    Because you you you say you will stay
  • 00:45:03
    friends no matter what, right? Yeah. No,
  • 00:45:06
    family first. No don't have to bring
  • 00:45:08
    family. Even if it's two friends. Ah
  • 00:45:10
    yeah. Yeah. You will likely have to
  • 00:45:12
    sight one. There that is the truth of
  • 00:45:13
    the thing. You are not hated but I might
  • 00:45:16
    cut one of you out from from my life.
  • 00:45:18
    But not hated. If like then and then
  • 00:45:20
    like break up you just kind of you won't
  • 00:45:22
    I won't suddenly hate one of them but
  • 00:45:23
    it's just probably not going to talk to
  • 00:45:24
    one of them forever. This is okay. So
  • 00:45:27
    this is something that No, it depends on
  • 00:45:29
    the time of the year.
  • 00:45:32
    Mercury in retrograde.
  • 00:45:35
    No, this okay so I'm like just thinking
  • 00:45:37
    right like uh when recently I had I
  • 00:45:38
    faced this right. Okay. So basically
  • 00:45:39
    like friend group extended friend group
  • 00:45:41
    you know not not direct friend group and
  • 00:45:42
    then there were people who dating and
  • 00:45:43
    then there was like cheating and then to
  • 00:45:46
    me it's like just I think was it you
  • 00:45:49
    said it like the cheating is like really
  • 00:45:50
    like a very deep thing. So to me it was
  • 00:45:52
    like if you don't you don't you know you
  • 00:45:53
    don't have to cheat on me you know you
  • 00:45:54
    cheat on someone else that fact that you
  • 00:45:56
    are a cheater like I don't ever want to
  • 00:45:57
    associate with you like I just don't
  • 00:45:59
    want you in my life you know that's not
  • 00:46:00
    the kind of person I want you know no
  • 00:46:01
    way so I just avoid them I don't talk to
  • 00:46:04
    them if you talk to my friends and talk
  • 00:46:05
    in a group setting so be it I'm not
  • 00:46:07
    going to be rude to them to their face
  • 00:46:08
    anything I just avoid them so let's say
  • 00:46:10
    by this logic right uh I get caught
  • 00:46:12
    cheating on pet right and it becomes
  • 00:46:14
    like news you would it crosses your mind
  • 00:46:17
    to say I should resign from this company
  • 00:46:19
    yeah it will come to me that because I
  • 00:46:20
    have to associate with you daily and to
  • 00:46:22
    me that like that that's something that
  • 00:46:24
    mentally will affect me. If if let's say
  • 00:46:26
    you are the victim's friend now when all
  • 00:46:29
    of this is unfolding how do you be a
  • 00:46:32
    friend to the victim also and I feel
  • 00:46:33
    like a lot of people will also come out
  • 00:46:35
    and like step up and say something that
  • 00:46:37
    kind of [ __ ] right like when somebody
  • 00:46:38
    tell you something guy or girl traumatic
  • 00:46:40
    what you mean right like if it's a if
  • 00:46:43
    he's a bro or if he's he's a girl no if
  • 00:46:45
    I feel like if if for example was a
  • 00:46:48
    female celebrity and this was a sure
  • 00:46:50
    could be male could be 15y old boy right
  • 00:46:52
    yeah then I feel like the My friend is
  • 00:46:55
    15 years old. You are 15 years also.
  • 00:46:57
    Yeah, we all 15. Yeah, we are not. Okay.
  • 00:46:59
    We
  • 00:47:00
    all So you talking about your friends
  • 00:47:02
    with the with the victim. Your friends
  • 00:47:04
    with a 15y old as a
  • 00:47:07
    34. You also also groomed. That's this
  • 00:47:10
    episode about you. I was just thinking a
  • 00:47:12
    random friend. Okay. So say I'm the 15y
  • 00:47:14
    old I'm the 15y old. I'm a 15y old
  • 00:47:17
    friend to the 15y old. Yeah. Okay. Wow.
  • 00:47:21
    You seem quite mature for your age.
  • 00:47:24
    Hello uncle then. Oh no you do seem very
  • 00:47:27
    mature for your age. Thanks so we all
  • 00:47:31
    friends with a person who's been who's a
  • 00:47:33
    victim of disgrooming or whatever sort
  • 00:47:35
    of okay yeah as in my 15year-old self as
  • 00:47:38
    in if I was her classmate or whatever I
  • 00:47:41
    will like defend her if anyone bully her
  • 00:47:44
    right why would but you assume she will
  • 00:47:47
    get bullied for this no no if she get
  • 00:47:48
    like if anyone disturb her or like if
  • 00:47:51
    cuz I feel like I want clubs like I want
  • 00:47:54
    to protect her her state of mind. I feel
  • 00:47:57
    like that that will be my priority as a
  • 00:47:59
    friend. And I feel like when I was 15,
  • 00:48:01
    my capacity was like if like someone
  • 00:48:03
    bully her, hey, you are news or that
  • 00:48:04
    kind of thing, right? I would like the
  • 00:48:06
    other person up verbally like I I mean
  • 00:48:09
    like threaten a bit or like complain to
  • 00:48:12
    teacher that kind of thing. Sorry, I got
  • 00:48:14
    I got layers because I I'm very curious
  • 00:48:15
    about the previous conversation we've
  • 00:48:17
    had, right? Mhm. And I think a part of
  • 00:48:19
    me that am the way I am so I haven't
  • 00:48:22
    move on from the conversation would
  • 00:48:23
    indulge me right is that I feel like I
  • 00:48:26
    I'm someone that is flawed like the rest
  • 00:48:29
    of us and we all have layers like in
  • 00:48:32
    someone's story we are in your story you
  • 00:48:35
    could be have been bullied in another
  • 00:48:37
    person's story you are the bully and I I
  • 00:48:39
    believe the same for most of us cuz we
  • 00:48:42
    are humans and we are inconsistent and
  • 00:48:45
    to apply that I cannot associate myself
  • 00:48:48
    with you. To me, right, I don't think
  • 00:48:50
    it's wrong. But my perspective, right,
  • 00:48:54
    is until you make a mistake and then you
  • 00:48:56
    see how you want the world to treat you.
  • 00:48:58
    And I feel like my very selfish
  • 00:49:00
    perspective, right, is that people that
  • 00:49:02
    feel this way, right, have not fallen
  • 00:49:04
    before. I think it makes sense, but
  • 00:49:06
    there are tears to it. No, agree, agree,
  • 00:49:08
    agree, agree. So then this is the like
  • 00:49:10
    maybe your threshold and our threshold
  • 00:49:12
    is just different because I fully agree
  • 00:49:13
    with what you're saying. I also think
  • 00:49:15
    that being a friend means a lot more
  • 00:49:18
    than just like only doing the good time
  • 00:49:20
    style. Yeah, I totally agree that. But
  • 00:49:22
    then the threshold and the boundaries
  • 00:49:25
    maybe is just different for us. Yeah.
  • 00:49:27
    Because for like for me if like you
  • 00:49:28
    sexually assault somebody or minor or
  • 00:49:30
    kind of sh then that's beyond my
  • 00:49:33
    threshold. You know what I mean? Does
  • 00:49:34
    the then the why would be important to
  • 00:49:35
    you? No, the why is for sure important
  • 00:49:38
    because the why would change any outcome
  • 00:49:39
    or no? I think there's like some room
  • 00:49:41
    for for flexibility because everything
  • 00:49:44
    got reason. Everybody has their reasons.
  • 00:49:45
    Yeah. Like for whatever reason I take a
  • 00:49:47
    pill, I beat my wife. You know what I
  • 00:49:49
    mean? Like then I it's one off thing,
  • 00:49:50
    but I still beat my wife. She is hurt or
  • 00:49:52
    dead. Like to me is why it's damn hard.
  • 00:49:55
    This man kill his wife. I I can see that
  • 00:49:57
    I'll be hated by and shunned by circles
  • 00:49:59
    that this man kill his wife or brutally
  • 00:50:02
    beat his wife even if she's still alive.
  • 00:50:03
    But like do me the why important. Yeah,
  • 00:50:05
    the why. How did your wife push you
  • 00:50:08
    there or were you intoxicated? Were you
  • 00:50:09
    druged up? But for me that's important.
  • 00:50:12
    We've also been so heavily shaped by
  • 00:50:13
    like the media and like you look at film
  • 00:50:15
    and how they've given villains their own
  • 00:50:17
    story and meaning and intention and
  • 00:50:19
    other
  • 00:50:20
    kind like Joker could be so similar. So
  • 00:50:24
    it's very dangerous where do you draw
  • 00:50:25
    the line right and those boundaries I
  • 00:50:27
    think the tier thing is a very important
  • 00:50:29
    thing to understand here because okay
  • 00:50:30
    let's say right when when I was younger
  • 00:50:32
    I've been the recipient of charitable
  • 00:50:35
    friendship. So when I did mistakes when
  • 00:50:37
    I was younger, my friends who were there
  • 00:50:39
    didn't just abandon me immediately, you
  • 00:50:40
    know, like okay, let's just very simple
  • 00:50:42
    example. Yeah, I don't call it
  • 00:50:43
    charitable friendships. I call them
  • 00:50:44
    friendships. Sure. I'm the the charity
  • 00:50:46
    that extended in their friendship is is
  • 00:50:48
    how I so just example is when I was
  • 00:50:51
    younger and because I was in a boy
  • 00:50:52
    school, right? We happily we throw out
  • 00:50:54
    slurs all the time. You know, just use
  • 00:50:55
    it like water. It doesn't mean anything
  • 00:50:57
    because no one's getting offended by it
  • 00:50:58
    too much. But over time, I realized
  • 00:51:00
    that's very harmful behavior to to
  • 00:51:02
    perpetuate. So I kept doing that and
  • 00:51:04
    then I realized in poly and ns the
  • 00:51:06
    friends around me who actually kept they
  • 00:51:07
    would be like that's not cool and that's
  • 00:51:09
    something that if I look at it from my
  • 00:51:12
    own p if someone today said like
  • 00:51:14
    repeatedly kept saying slurs in my
  • 00:51:16
    presence and I would just be like I'm
  • 00:51:17
    not even going to bother being a friend
  • 00:51:19
    anymore I'm just going to like move away
  • 00:51:20
    from them right so if they had done that
  • 00:51:22
    to me then I would have been just left
  • 00:51:24
    without those friends and then I would
  • 00:51:25
    never have fixed my behavior or become
  • 00:51:27
    better but then when you've commit when
  • 00:51:29
    you've done the thing that is beyond the
  • 00:51:31
    moment of teaching
  • 00:51:32
    when they can no longer help you fix
  • 00:51:34
    your behavior. So if someone in my my
  • 00:51:36
    friend circle did something that is I
  • 00:51:38
    can't even help you but out of it I
  • 00:51:40
    can't even change your behavior. What
  • 00:51:41
    you've done is that thing like let's say
  • 00:51:43
    be a wife. No, let's say it's in the
  • 00:51:44
    same aspect, right? You you say the N
  • 00:51:47
    word and then you go in a black
  • 00:51:48
    neighborhood, right? For example, and
  • 00:51:49
    you're in America. You say the N word
  • 00:51:51
    and you kind of beaten up by now you say
  • 00:51:53
    it really, right? And you got caught by
  • 00:51:55
    the black community saying it really,
  • 00:51:57
    but it's done really.
  • 00:52:00
    Me and my friends, we go there and then
  • 00:52:01
    someone goes and says it and attracts
  • 00:52:02
    trouble and you you you say and then you
  • 00:52:04
    get your ass beaten up by by the
  • 00:52:05
    gangsters, right? Am I still entitled to
  • 00:52:07
    your friendship? H do you feel entitled?
  • 00:52:09
    I don't know. I I feel like in in my
  • 00:52:11
    selfish perspective, I'm like, "Yeah, he
  • 00:52:12
    should still be my friend." Cuz in front
  • 00:52:14
    of him, I don't say, I don't do it to
  • 00:52:15
    him, but he's not the one getting the
  • 00:52:17
    victim of it. Yeah. But somebody else is
  • 00:52:19
    a victim, somebody who don't see is the
  • 00:52:20
    victim, then not your problem. But
  • 00:52:21
    agree. But then when on the other side,
  • 00:52:23
    I'll be like, I even though the victim
  • 00:52:25
    is not somebody I know, not somebody I
  • 00:52:26
    see, I can still see that what you're
  • 00:52:28
    doing is harmful to somebody out there.
  • 00:52:30
    Yeah. And like the way I see it is I
  • 00:52:32
    cannot be friends with you if you do
  • 00:52:34
    that to someone else, even if it's
  • 00:52:35
    unseen. But if I was the one then I'm
  • 00:52:38
    like but I mean that's just a human
  • 00:52:40
    hypocrisy I can admit I'm hypocrit
  • 00:52:42
    that's how I live with the hypocrisy
  • 00:52:44
    that I will always give people chance I
  • 00:52:45
    will try and see the best in people
  • 00:52:46
    because I know of the human hypocrisy.
  • 00:52:48
    Would you say that is that you're seeing
  • 00:52:50
    the best in them or is it just you are
  • 00:52:52
    not seeing the worst or I just think
  • 00:52:55
    that physically unable to label people
  • 00:52:58
    by one act whether it's a good or bad
  • 00:53:01
    you can do something damn good to me you
  • 00:53:03
    are not a very shiverous man as a you
  • 00:53:06
    are a collection of the one million
  • 00:53:08
    things I've seen you do and plus what
  • 00:53:10
    I've heard about you like both together.
  • 00:53:12
    Yeah. So it's not one bad thing you did
  • 00:53:13
    or one damn solid thing you did. Unless
  • 00:53:15
    that one solid thing you did was at a
  • 00:53:18
    very crucial moment you kind of save me
  • 00:53:20
    you save my business or whatever then I
  • 00:53:22
    will remember you as you of as that
  • 00:53:24
    person that did me a solid. But to me
  • 00:53:26
    right that one thing you did has no
  • 00:53:28
    bearing on your character. Does that
  • 00:53:30
    make sense? Yeah. You did me a solid. So
  • 00:53:32
    I want to do you a solid one day. Do I
  • 00:53:34
    think you're a great man cuz you did me
  • 00:53:35
    a solid? No. Maybe it was easy for you.
  • 00:53:37
    Maybe it was convenient for you. Maybe
  • 00:53:38
    you had something to gain. I just didn't
  • 00:53:39
    know. Like but you save my life. I want
  • 00:53:40
    to save your life. Yeah. Yeah. So the
  • 00:53:42
    one bad day won't like wash away all the
  • 00:53:44
    good but in that case then we also
  • 00:53:46
    consider the one good thing right away
  • 00:53:48
    bad things. So like all the penants and
  • 00:53:49
    all the rehabilitation. Yeah. Can it
  • 00:53:51
    ever wash away that stain the the bad?
  • 00:53:53
    No. So to me is that we as society right
  • 00:53:56
    we play we need rules. We need rules so
  • 00:53:58
    that people are they are born smaller
  • 00:54:00
    have a chance to live right. It's not
  • 00:54:03
    like strength might is right. Right. We
  • 00:54:05
    need to have rules and the rules are out
  • 00:54:08
    there. We do we live our life the best
  • 00:54:11
    we can. If we flout the rule plus get
  • 00:54:14
    caught, you get punished by it. I think
  • 00:54:16
    fair game. I'm not here to debate
  • 00:54:17
    whether the rule is too harsh, not too
  • 00:54:19
    harsh, blah blah blah. Right? Fair game.
  • 00:54:21
    But then I feel like after that we go
  • 00:54:22
    back and then we live our life. If I
  • 00:54:25
    feel like as a person, if I did not
  • 00:54:27
    personally wrong you, I will expect you
  • 00:54:29
    to not distance yourself from me. Okay,
  • 00:54:32
    thanks for watching. Like, share,
  • 00:54:33
    subscribe, join the community for more
  • 00:54:35
    engagement there and we'll see you guys
  • 00:54:36
    in the next episode. Hey.
Tags
  • Ian Fang
  • grooming
  • consent
  • emotional manipulation
  • age of consent
  • sexual exploitation
  • victim support
  • societal reactions
  • legal implications
  • friendship dynamics