Buy What You Love Without Going Broke | Frugal Friends | Ep 527

00:57:43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5baStWP6vm0

Sintesi

TLDROn this episode of 'Choose FI,' hosts Jen and Jill from The Frugal Friends Podcast discuss their new book titled "Buy What You Love Without Going Broke," set to release on January 7th. They explore the concept of balancing spending and frugality, termed as 'radical middle,' and highlight the societal extremes of overspending and ultra-frugality. They emphasize finding joy in life's simple pleasures and the importance of understanding personal values to make better financial decisions. Actionable strategies like 30-day no spend challenges and 90-day transaction inventories are recommended to manage spending. Additionally, the influence of dopamine on purchasing behavior is discussed, explaining how the excitement surrounding purchases can lead to impulsive actions. The four key value areas—family, friends, faith, and fulfilling work—are highlighted as central to directing purposeful spending. Jen and Jill aim to shift the conversation in personal finance toward these broader, more enriched perspectives, inviting readers into a journey of understanding and redefining values around money.

Punti di forza

  • 📚 Jen and Jill's book focuses on balancing spending and frugality.
  • 🔍 Explore the 'radical middle' between extremes in financial behavior.
  • 💡 Implement 30-day no spend challenges to rethink spending.
  • 🧠 Dopamine plays a role in purchase excitement and impulsive buying.
  • 👨‍👩‍👧 Family is central to value-based spending.
  • 🙏 Faith can guide purposeful financial decisions.
  • 🤝 Friends impact how we choose to spend money.
  • 💼 Fulfilling work aligns career and financial goals.
  • 🏠 Housing, transportation, and food are key spending areas.
  • 🌱 Life experiments help discover genuine personal values.

Linea temporale

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    Introduction of guests Jen and Jill from The Frugal Friends Podcast promoting their new book 'Buy What You Love Without Going Broke,' focusing on balancing spending and frugality.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Discussion on the shift away from traditional frugality, exploring why people are moving toward extreme spending or earning, and the importance of finding a balance.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Jen and Jill introduce the concept of the 'radical middle,' a balance between earning and frugality, and navigating personal spending values.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Introduction to the idea of life as an experiment and how to find the 'radical middle' through actionable steps like no-spend challenges and understanding dopamine.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Detailed explanation of a 30-day no-spend challenge and its impact on reducing dopamine-driven spending and learning new spending habits.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Further discussion on dopamine's role in spending, and the importance of creating alternative activities that provide satisfaction without monetary costs.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    Talk about personal experiments in spending, connecting these ideas to understanding personal values and satisfaction in life.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    Exploration of creativity in spending and living, encouraging embracing limits as drivers for new solutions and personal growth.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:45:00

    Discussion on values-based spending using the four Fs - Family, Friends, Faith, Fulfilling Work - as guiding principles for expenses.

  • 00:45:00 - 00:50:00

    Reflection on the paradox of achieving financial independence (FI) and the ongoing journey of personal growth and contentment.

  • 00:50:00 - 00:57:43

    Conclusion with actionable tips for smart saving strategies, focusing on high-impact changes in housing, food, and transportation to manage expenses effectively.

Mostra di più

Mappa mentale

Video Domande e Risposte

  • Who are the guests on the show?

    Jen and Jill, hosts of The Frugal Friends Podcast.

  • What is the new book about?

    Finding a balance between spending and frugality without going broke.

  • What is the 'radical middle'?

    It's a balance between extreme frugality and high-income earning.

  • Why do people move away from frugality?

    People are often drawn to extremes, making it simpler to navigate decisions.

  • What are some of the actionable takeaways from the book?

    Ideas include 30-day no spend challenges and 90-day transaction inventories.

  • What are the 'four Fs'?

    Family, friends, faith, and fulfilling work – key value areas to focus spending on.

  • What is the purpose of a no spend challenge?

    To teach creativity in solving life’s wants and needs without spending money.

  • What is the significance of dopamine in spending habits?

    It drives the excitement in purchasing, and controlling it can help manage spending.

  • What was one surprising takeaway for the guests from the book?

    The impact of creative alternatives in place of spending.

  • What is the Bureau of Labor Statistics' finding on spending?

    Most spending focuses on housing, transportation, and food.

Visualizza altre sintesi video

Ottenete l'accesso immediato ai riassunti gratuiti dei video di YouTube grazie all'intelligenza artificiale!
Sottotitoli
en
Scorrimento automatico:
  • 00:00:00
    hello and welcome to choose ofi today in
  • 00:00:02
    the show we have two of my really good
  • 00:00:03
    friends we have Jen and Jill from The
  • 00:00:05
    Frugal Friends Podcast and they have a
  • 00:00:07
    new book coming out on January 7th
  • 00:00:10
    called buy what you love without going
  • 00:00:12
    broke this book is really fantastic and
  • 00:00:14
    it dives into just a ton of critical
  • 00:00:17
    areas that I think all of us need to
  • 00:00:19
    consider it's that tension between
  • 00:00:22
    overspending and Ultra frugality it's
  • 00:00:26
    trying to find out what do you value in
  • 00:00:27
    life and how to actually undertake
  • 00:00:31
    experiments to figure out hey what do I
  • 00:00:33
    want my life to look like and maybe some
  • 00:00:36
    really specific actionable takeaways on
  • 00:00:39
    30-day no spend challenges or 90-day
  • 00:00:43
    transaction inventories so this episode
  • 00:00:45
    has a little bit of everything from the
  • 00:00:47
    really really hyper actionable to the
  • 00:00:50
    broad aspects of hey fi is a journey
  • 00:00:54
    it's a constantly evolving life and we
  • 00:00:58
    need to be there for that Journey with
  • 00:01:00
    an open mind I think you're really
  • 00:01:03
    really going to enjoy this episode and
  • 00:01:04
    with that welcome to choose
  • 00:01:09
    [Music]
  • 00:01:13
    P all right Jen and Jill two of my
  • 00:01:16
    absolute favorite people I love having
  • 00:01:19
    you on the show this is gonna be fun we
  • 00:01:20
    love being here thanks for having us
  • 00:01:22
    yeah this is gonna be cool so okay in a
  • 00:01:25
    week you have a book coming out called
  • 00:01:27
    buy what you love without going broke
  • 00:01:29
    trans transform your spending and get
  • 00:01:31
    more of what money can't buy and I think
  • 00:01:35
    what's so interesting about you two is
  • 00:01:38
    obviously you are The Frugal Friends and
  • 00:01:40
    I think it is a reframe on frugality in
  • 00:01:44
    the best possible way and I think
  • 00:01:46
    frugality has taken a lot of hits over
  • 00:01:49
    the last handful of years Even in our
  • 00:01:51
    community and we are The Frugal
  • 00:01:53
    Community right but we've gone so far
  • 00:01:55
    away from it I'd love to hear your
  • 00:01:57
    thoughts on maybe why happened why have
  • 00:02:01
    we gone away from frugality so much so
  • 00:02:03
    you're saying like people have been anti
  • 00:02:07
    frugality at this point and PR making
  • 00:02:09
    lots of money the general sentiment
  • 00:02:11
    behind fality so I I think we love to
  • 00:02:14
    operate in extremes and black and white
  • 00:02:17
    it's just easier to navigate with as
  • 00:02:20
    little Nuance as possible that's just
  • 00:02:21
    like how our brains work right so for me
  • 00:02:25
    so my husband and I paid off $78,000 of
  • 00:02:28
    debt in two years and once we were done
  • 00:02:31
    with that I thought my financial
  • 00:02:34
    problems insecurities fears were just
  • 00:02:36
    going to go away and they didn't and so
  • 00:02:40
    instead of navigating why that was I
  • 00:02:43
    just decided to jump into fi and put the
  • 00:02:45
    same amount that I was putting towards
  • 00:02:47
    debt into 401K IRA and just go the same
  • 00:02:53
    like full steam ahead with five and then
  • 00:02:56
    I got let go from my job 7 weeks before
  • 00:02:59
    I had my first son and I no longer could
  • 00:03:02
    go full steam ahead and I was forced to
  • 00:03:05
    try to navigate some of this Nuance
  • 00:03:07
    between why did I feel like I needed to
  • 00:03:12
    go full steam ahead and that led to
  • 00:03:16
    starting my own Financial like writing
  • 00:03:18
    business and I really got started with
  • 00:03:21
    okay I'll just make as much money as
  • 00:03:23
    possible then I won't have to think
  • 00:03:24
    about all of the spending which is
  • 00:03:26
    hilarious because you know a year later
  • 00:03:28
    I started frug friends and I was Modern
  • 00:03:31
    frugality so I was I was thinking more
  • 00:03:34
    about the saving money aspect but there
  • 00:03:36
    was still in my own personal life this
  • 00:03:37
    disconnect I just wanted to navigate in
  • 00:03:41
    the black or white in the extremes
  • 00:03:42
    because it was easier I didn't have to
  • 00:03:45
    think about why these things were hard
  • 00:03:48
    why I felt guilty when I spent money why
  • 00:03:50
    I felt so fearful when I spent money
  • 00:03:53
    because I didn't know if I was going to
  • 00:03:54
    need it down the road and so I think
  • 00:03:56
    that's why we see these pendulum swings
  • 00:03:59
    in the Community between Ultra frugality
  • 00:04:03
    extreme and Ultra income earning extreme
  • 00:04:08
    I think that's why we've also seen so
  • 00:04:09
    many like flavors of fi in these
  • 00:04:12
    different degrees you know people want
  • 00:04:15
    to label themselves F but they're
  • 00:04:18
    starting to find their radical middle
  • 00:04:20
    their balance between the extremes and
  • 00:04:22
    giving them new labels which I think is
  • 00:04:25
    amazing because people are starting to
  • 00:04:28
    embrace the nuance and try to navigate
  • 00:04:30
    it yeah I love that embracing of the
  • 00:04:32
    Nuance I I can't keep up with all the
  • 00:04:34
    flavors of f know right the host of the
  • 00:04:37
    choose of VI podcast it's utterly
  • 00:04:39
    ridiculous I can't either but I'm just
  • 00:04:41
    like if you found a label for yourself
  • 00:04:43
    that you love I love that for you I love
  • 00:04:45
    cookies and cream ice cream I don't need
  • 00:04:47
    the bacon and pistachio
  • 00:04:50
    flavor they did it well the first time
  • 00:04:53
    exactly and Jill you've talked in the
  • 00:04:55
    past before about the tension of living
  • 00:04:57
    in the middle of these extremes the
  • 00:04:59
    dreams that Jen was talking about I'd
  • 00:05:01
    love to hear you talk a little bit more
  • 00:05:02
    about that because I just think this is
  • 00:05:04
    so critical for all of us yeah this is
  • 00:05:07
    what we call the radical middle between
  • 00:05:10
    Jen and I and I think our community has
  • 00:05:12
    kind of picked up this term radical
  • 00:05:14
    because not many people Venture there we
  • 00:05:17
    are drawn to extremes and sometimes we
  • 00:05:20
    do visit those extremes but we are
  • 00:05:22
    really advocating for holding the
  • 00:05:24
    tension between the two so recognizing
  • 00:05:27
    what's good on this side
  • 00:05:30
    of maybe High income earning and what's
  • 00:05:33
    good on the other side of maybe Ultra
  • 00:05:36
    extreme frugality and taking from both
  • 00:05:40
    ends and holding it in the middle so not
  • 00:05:44
    expelling everything from one side or
  • 00:05:46
    the other that's where we then find
  • 00:05:47
    ourselves in an extreme that eventually
  • 00:05:49
    we're going to burn out from but rather
  • 00:05:52
    finding what works for us from both
  • 00:05:55
    sides and creating our kind of own
  • 00:05:57
    individualized again radical middle of
  • 00:06:01
    yeah I like this but not that aspect of
  • 00:06:04
    it yes I do want to earn more but not
  • 00:06:07
    just for the sake of earning more I want
  • 00:06:09
    to be able to Define my enough and what
  • 00:06:11
    that looks like in my season and I also
  • 00:06:14
    want to practice good stewardship of my
  • 00:06:17
    resources which is going to look like
  • 00:06:19
    frugality in some ways of conscious
  • 00:06:22
    consumption of I actually don't need to
  • 00:06:25
    buy all of the paper products or I don't
  • 00:06:28
    actually need to get a ton of decor and
  • 00:06:31
    for some that may look like deprivation
  • 00:06:33
    but for me I have found I don't need all
  • 00:06:36
    of those things I found other Solutions
  • 00:06:39
    but I will absolutely say yes to
  • 00:06:41
    spending on travel and so it's this give
  • 00:06:43
    and take and holding the tension rather
  • 00:06:46
    than saying I'm going to just stay here
  • 00:06:49
    stay planted here because this is what
  • 00:06:50
    I've been told to do and never
  • 00:06:52
    questioning it or identifying could
  • 00:06:54
    there be other things that are
  • 00:06:56
    beneficial to me here as always when you
  • 00:06:58
    talk I have like 45 things that I want
  • 00:07:01
    to talk about it's so frustrating so
  • 00:07:03
    first comes to mind we're going to talk
  • 00:07:04
    about all these but life is an
  • 00:07:06
    experiment right trying to figure out
  • 00:07:07
    what you actually like minimalism is
  • 00:07:10
    something that is near and dear to my
  • 00:07:11
    heart and it's becoming much more so so
  • 00:07:13
    I definitely want to talk about that but
  • 00:07:15
    let's go back to this this radical
  • 00:07:17
    middle and maybe like specific nuts and
  • 00:07:19
    bolt steps on how people can find this
  • 00:07:21
    because I think frankly and you two talk
  • 00:07:23
    about this in your book like we live in
  • 00:07:25
    an ultra consumerist Society right we
  • 00:07:29
    have been in basically our dopamine
  • 00:07:31
    centers have been hijacked very
  • 00:07:33
    intelligently by many of these companies
  • 00:07:36
    and it is hard to get out of that trap
  • 00:07:39
    so maybe we talk a little bit about
  • 00:07:41
    about dopamine but maybe then we also
  • 00:07:44
    talk about how do we find that radical
  • 00:07:46
    middle like actual like experiments how
  • 00:07:49
    do we do this what's the methodology so
  • 00:07:51
    let's see if we can kind of jump off
  • 00:07:53
    from there on those two topics I know
  • 00:07:55
    they sound wildly disparate maybe to the
  • 00:07:57
    audience but I think they are
  • 00:07:58
    inextricably length so connected okay so
  • 00:08:01
    between dopamine and the radical middle
  • 00:08:03
    this isn't like the first step that I
  • 00:08:04
    usually give but I'll like dive into
  • 00:08:06
    this cuz it's one of my favorites it's a
  • 00:08:09
    no spend Challenge and I've been talking
  • 00:08:11
    about no spend challenges since you know
  • 00:08:14
    I did my first one in college out of
  • 00:08:16
    necessity but my first intentional one
  • 00:08:18
    for financial reasons was while we were
  • 00:08:20
    paying off debt and I did it just to
  • 00:08:22
    save money but what I learned what I got
  • 00:08:25
    from it extended far beyond the extra
  • 00:08:28
    three or $400 it saved me and what I
  • 00:08:32
    really learned was that it forced me to
  • 00:08:35
    take space to hold space to figure out
  • 00:08:39
    creative alternatives to meet my wants
  • 00:08:42
    and needs and that was what I thought
  • 00:08:45
    was really interesting because when you
  • 00:08:47
    can just solve all your problems by
  • 00:08:49
    throwing money at them and I'm not even
  • 00:08:51
    talking about big things but like I'm
  • 00:08:53
    having a bad day and I want a little
  • 00:08:55
    treat so I'm going to get myself a
  • 00:08:57
    little coffee you know like that is
  • 00:08:59
    we're throwing money at a problem
  • 00:09:01
    instead of forcing ourselves to get
  • 00:09:03
    creative with how we meet the need do we
  • 00:09:05
    deserve a little treat absolutely every
  • 00:09:08
    day multiple times a day but let's make
  • 00:09:10
    sure that they are real treats and not
  • 00:09:13
    just poor easy excuses for treats
  • 00:09:16
    because it's just so easy to throw money
  • 00:09:18
    at problems so a no spend challenge for
  • 00:09:21
    30 days requires you at at least you
  • 00:09:24
    know there are a lot of nuances even in
  • 00:09:26
    that but overarching requires you to not
  • 00:09:29
    spend money on discretionary expenses
  • 00:09:32
    for 30 days one month you could do it
  • 00:09:35
    longer but I think if we're learning how
  • 00:09:37
    to spend money well you only need 30
  • 00:09:40
    days if you're trying to learn how to
  • 00:09:42
    not spend money you can do it for as
  • 00:09:43
    long as you want but we want to help
  • 00:09:45
    people learn how to spend money without
  • 00:09:48
    guilt shame or going broke and so what
  • 00:09:50
    that does is it takes off all the
  • 00:09:53
    decisions that you make throughout the
  • 00:09:55
    day that ask do I want to buy this or do
  • 00:09:57
    I not want to buy this because the
  • 00:09:59
    answer is no so you've got less decision
  • 00:10:01
    fatigue you've got less dopamine Spike
  • 00:10:05
    Dr Ann lumpkey wrote a book called
  • 00:10:06
    dopamine nation and she helps people
  • 00:10:09
    with all kinds of addictions all
  • 00:10:11
    involving dopamine and she saw after two
  • 00:10:14
    weeks the first two weeks were the
  • 00:10:16
    hardest for her patients that were doing
  • 00:10:18
    dopamine fasts after four weeks though
  • 00:10:22
    her patients excluding you know drug and
  • 00:10:24
    alcohol and physical addictions but her
  • 00:10:27
    patience after four weeks of abstaining
  • 00:10:29
    from their dopamine eliciting addiction
  • 00:10:32
    really did see substantial results and
  • 00:10:35
    differences in how much dopamine was
  • 00:10:39
    released or absorbed after they were
  • 00:10:42
    encountering that addiction quote
  • 00:10:44
    unquote and so we think that four weeks
  • 00:10:46
    is a really good amount of time and that
  • 00:10:49
    is an extreme you know if we're going to
  • 00:10:51
    by definition a no spend challenge is
  • 00:10:53
    Extreme but it's by visiting these
  • 00:10:56
    extremes that we can find our radical
  • 00:10:58
    middle so if we're living in this you
  • 00:11:01
    know we either spend money on whatever
  • 00:11:04
    we want without thinking or we spend no
  • 00:11:06
    money out of fear and we go to this
  • 00:11:08
    intentional Other Extreme where we are
  • 00:11:11
    thinking about our spending decisions
  • 00:11:14
    more or less in some cases after a month
  • 00:11:17
    we are more close to whatever that
  • 00:11:20
    radical middle is going to be so that's
  • 00:11:22
    just like a physical way that you can
  • 00:11:24
    kind of get closer that all make sense
  • 00:11:27
    so right these really are quite tied
  • 00:11:29
    together so in essence you're taking
  • 00:11:31
    this dopamine fast as part of this
  • 00:11:34
    30-day challenge so you're teaching
  • 00:11:37
    yourself all right put that little bit
  • 00:11:38
    of space between stimulus and response
  • 00:11:41
    right so that's the Victor Frankle quote
  • 00:11:43
    which is just so exceedingly powerful
  • 00:11:45
    okay I like this this is making a heck
  • 00:11:47
    of a lot of sense to me as I'm thinking
  • 00:11:49
    through it right can we take a step back
  • 00:11:51
    so Jill for a lot of people who aren't
  • 00:11:53
    aware of of dopamine or what's going on
  • 00:11:56
    like is there a highlevel overview we
  • 00:11:58
    can direct them to or like what are your
  • 00:12:00
    thoughts on like hey what's even going
  • 00:12:02
    on here why or like a lot of people
  • 00:12:04
    might not have ever heard of this
  • 00:12:06
    neurotransmitter I guess is probably
  • 00:12:07
    what it is yeah sure I mean I I think
  • 00:12:10
    dopamine Nation by Ann lumy would be a
  • 00:12:12
    great resource to look into we put that
  • 00:12:14
    in the show notes for sure yeah and we
  • 00:12:16
    don't talk extensively about kind of the
  • 00:12:18
    neurological aspect of dopamine just
  • 00:12:21
    recognizing that it is what is released
  • 00:12:24
    when we go to make a purchase usually
  • 00:12:28
    the excitement leading up to a purchase
  • 00:12:31
    not even necessarily when we actually
  • 00:12:33
    pull the trigger on the thing there's
  • 00:12:34
    usually then a little bit of a let down
  • 00:12:36
    that happens but we can become drawn to
  • 00:12:39
    this because of what it does for our
  • 00:12:42
    bodies but there are a lot of ways and
  • 00:12:44
    and this isn't to repel dopamine it's an
  • 00:12:47
    amazing thing that our body releases and
  • 00:12:50
    it it's the feel-good hormone we love it
  • 00:12:52
    but there are plenty of other ways that
  • 00:12:54
    we can engage and experience a dopamine
  • 00:12:57
    release that does end up costing us a
  • 00:13:00
    ton of money and so one of the things
  • 00:13:01
    speaking of Life experiments that we
  • 00:13:04
    will recommend people do is to make a
  • 00:13:06
    list of Alternatives that they can
  • 00:13:08
    engage in to shopping and we like to
  • 00:13:11
    talk about small medium big exchanges if
  • 00:13:14
    you are one who wants to shop on your
  • 00:13:17
    phone late at night scrolling it's not
  • 00:13:19
    going to be a great exchange to say well
  • 00:13:22
    I'm going to go out for a run because
  • 00:13:24
    it's midnight and that's not what's
  • 00:13:26
    going to happen and it's winter yeah
  • 00:13:28
    right
  • 00:13:29
    but maybe it means that you're going to
  • 00:13:32
    play a fun free game on your phone or
  • 00:13:36
    you're going to get out some stationary
  • 00:13:38
    and write write a letter to a friend
  • 00:13:40
    there are plenty of other free
  • 00:13:42
    Alternatives that can help us connect
  • 00:13:44
    with maybe the deeper need that is
  • 00:13:47
    happening yeah okay this I love and I
  • 00:13:50
    want to really dive into maybe we can
  • 00:13:51
    just have a conversation about this
  • 00:13:53
    because I think so creative Alternatives
  • 00:13:55
    and life is an experiment what do you
  • 00:13:57
    really want these are are so critical
  • 00:14:00
    and I think the way that I look at life
  • 00:14:03
    now especially in terms of travel and
  • 00:14:07
    trying to figure out like what does a
  • 00:14:08
    future life look like is I'm just
  • 00:14:10
    experimenting like every time I go on a
  • 00:14:13
    trip specifically a trip but it can also
  • 00:14:15
    frankly just be in your local area
  • 00:14:18
    obviously it's it's trying to get a
  • 00:14:20
    little bit closer to what do I want my
  • 00:14:23
    perfect life to be and obviously
  • 00:14:24
    understanding there's no perfect life
  • 00:14:26
    right let's be clear but what can I set
  • 00:14:28
    up as an environment what lights me up
  • 00:14:31
    so in terms of even just something as
  • 00:14:33
    simple as I I went on this big trip to
  • 00:14:35
    Bali recently so for the five Freedom
  • 00:14:37
    Retreat I went to Bali and Singapore and
  • 00:14:40
    Doha which was just the most amazing
  • 00:14:42
    trip and it was fascinating because I
  • 00:14:45
    think Bali a lot of people think of as
  • 00:14:48
    the connotations in Americans heads are
  • 00:14:50
    like it's this perfect paradise and the
  • 00:14:53
    honest answer is it's not a perfect
  • 00:14:55
    Paradise it's I went to Bali and got
  • 00:14:57
    sick like for to the trip oh yeah did
  • 00:15:00
    you have poly
  • 00:15:03
    belly so you said that I was
  • 00:15:06
    like I think that pretty much plagued
  • 00:15:08
    everybody but and this is not to
  • 00:15:10
    denigrate Bali because Bali there's a
  • 00:15:12
    lot of amazing amazing things but just
  • 00:15:14
    for me it wasn't it wasn't exactly what
  • 00:15:17
    I was looking for there were aspects of
  • 00:15:19
    it so again it's like you kind of pick
  • 00:15:21
    and choose and then you put life life
  • 00:15:23
    experiences together right like when I
  • 00:15:26
    visited London a handful of years ago
  • 00:15:28
    and and we were a 100 yards off of like
  • 00:15:31
    the High Street in this little chisik
  • 00:15:34
    suburb and it was like Oh you mean I can
  • 00:15:36
    walk to restaurants and the grocery
  • 00:15:38
    store in a minute or two and that's just
  • 00:15:41
    part of the pitter patter of life if you
  • 00:15:44
    will or when I was here in Bali yeah we
  • 00:15:46
    were on a resort but it was only 100
  • 00:15:48
    yards off the main street and there were
  • 00:15:51
    25 restaurants within a couple hundred
  • 00:15:54
    yards and that was just really cool but
  • 00:15:55
    there was nowhere to walk because the
  • 00:15:57
    sidewalks are very limited because
  • 00:15:59
    infrastructure is limited right so it's
  • 00:16:00
    like again life is an experiment right
  • 00:16:02
    it's like you pick and choose and it's
  • 00:16:04
    like okay now I realize like this is
  • 00:16:06
    important to me that I wouldn't have
  • 00:16:08
    assumed this is important to me that
  • 00:16:10
    maybe I would have assumed but not I
  • 00:16:11
    didn't realize just how important so
  • 00:16:13
    like that's how I think about it but I'd
  • 00:16:15
    love to hear you two talk through this
  • 00:16:17
    in your own lives and how you think
  • 00:16:18
    about life as an experiment yeah it's a
  • 00:16:22
    great mindset to have essential mindset
  • 00:16:24
    because so often we will try to
  • 00:16:27
    replicate somebody body else's like
  • 00:16:30
    version of what looks like fulfillment
  • 00:16:32
    and then it doesn't work out like it
  • 00:16:34
    doesn't make us feel like we thought it
  • 00:16:37
    would and then give up because okay well
  • 00:16:41
    what works doesn't work for me so I'm
  • 00:16:43
    just going to go back to you know
  • 00:16:46
    whatever I was doing before but truly
  • 00:16:48
    like looking at and we say like playing
  • 00:16:51
    around like playing with different
  • 00:16:53
    solutions once you give yourself space
  • 00:16:56
    to get creative and creativity is
  • 00:16:58
    something we talk about a lot because we
  • 00:17:01
    talk about values based spending a lot
  • 00:17:03
    and how we derive those values are from
  • 00:17:05
    maso's hierarchy of needs and right at
  • 00:17:08
    the very top is self-actualization
  • 00:17:10
    self-fulfillment but creativity is also
  • 00:17:13
    in that very top spot so we have an
  • 00:17:16
    innate need to be creative and not just
  • 00:17:19
    like arts and crafts and stuff but
  • 00:17:22
    really being creative in problem solving
  • 00:17:25
    Solutions in how we're living our life
  • 00:17:27
    every day if we feel like we are coming
  • 00:17:29
    up with innovative solutions to Old
  • 00:17:32
    problems even the smallest like that
  • 00:17:34
    makes us feel good so when we give
  • 00:17:36
    ourselves space to do that to get
  • 00:17:39
    creative in how we're creating this
  • 00:17:42
    really fulfilling life or whatever
  • 00:17:45
    version of perfect life you want I mean
  • 00:17:47
    you start impulse spending a lot less
  • 00:17:50
    because no manufacturer can tell you I
  • 00:17:53
    have the solution to your problem and
  • 00:17:55
    you can just buy it because you're like
  • 00:17:57
    actually that maybe is a problem let me
  • 00:17:59
    get creative in how I solve it or uh I
  • 00:18:02
    don't actually think it's a problem for
  • 00:18:03
    me I think you're wrong maybe it's a
  • 00:18:05
    problem for someone else but not for me
  • 00:18:07
    and the context for creativity are the
  • 00:18:09
    parameters that we decide and maybe the
  • 00:18:12
    parameters that have been decided for us
  • 00:18:15
    of course our income and resources and
  • 00:18:18
    current living situation are parameters
  • 00:18:21
    it doesn't mean that we can't shift what
  • 00:18:23
    those look like but rather than bucking
  • 00:18:25
    against them and thinking oh if I just
  • 00:18:28
    made more money then I wouldn't have to
  • 00:18:30
    deal with this constraint but rather
  • 00:18:33
    looking at it as what if this constraint
  • 00:18:35
    provided the context for my creativity
  • 00:18:37
    what might I choose instead to be able
  • 00:18:40
    to solve for whatever problem it is that
  • 00:18:43
    I'm facing in a more creative way that
  • 00:18:46
    was the case for my husband and I when
  • 00:18:48
    we were living on a very small income
  • 00:18:51
    I'm a social worker and my job out of
  • 00:18:53
    college was not paying a ton of money
  • 00:18:56
    and we weren't paying a ton for housing
  • 00:18:58
    but we just weren't able to make big
  • 00:19:00
    strides in paying off my student loan
  • 00:19:02
    debt and so recognizing that housing is
  • 00:19:05
    one of our biggest expenses we decided
  • 00:19:07
    to move into an RV and we lived in two
  • 00:19:10
    different RVs for two years and we saved
  • 00:19:13
    incredibly on our living expenses and
  • 00:19:16
    not to mention we were able to sell the
  • 00:19:18
    RVs at a profit because we renovated
  • 00:19:20
    them and made them look really nice so I
  • 00:19:22
    was able to then cash flow my Master's
  • 00:19:24
    Degree and I'm not saying that's what
  • 00:19:26
    everybody needs to do but my Limited
  • 00:19:29
    income created the context for what we
  • 00:19:32
    could then solve for because I didn't
  • 00:19:34
    want to go find a new job I did really
  • 00:19:36
    enjoy what I was doing it felt
  • 00:19:38
    fulfilling so what else could we do and
  • 00:19:41
    that's what worked for us yeah and we're
  • 00:19:43
    also not saying everybody's limitation
  • 00:19:45
    has to be income either it can be other
  • 00:19:48
    self-imposed parameters for creativity
  • 00:19:50
    but that's what the 30-day no spend
  • 00:19:52
    challenges too it it's a
  • 00:19:54
    self-imposed constraint that could allow
  • 00:19:57
    for creativ to flourish where normally
  • 00:20:00
    I'm going to go bu to solve this problem
  • 00:20:03
    now I got to think through what would I
  • 00:20:04
    want to do instead and sometimes find
  • 00:20:07
    better Solutions where I might normally
  • 00:20:09
    just go shopping at the mall and pick
  • 00:20:12
    whatever stands out to me instead I'm
  • 00:20:14
    calling up a friend and we're going for
  • 00:20:15
    a walk and I'm learning more things
  • 00:20:17
    about them and I'm able to share of
  • 00:20:19
    myself and actually that met my needs a
  • 00:20:22
    whole lot more than a New Dress would
  • 00:20:24
    have okay now we've got even new
  • 00:20:26
    behaviors to be replacing something can
  • 00:20:29
    take with us as we then find our radical
  • 00:20:31
    middle going forward yeah and to me this
  • 00:20:34
    is all about exploring the edges of that
  • 00:20:36
    creativity and then also frankly it
  • 00:20:39
    delves immediately into life happiness
  • 00:20:42
    and satisfaction and I know those are
  • 00:20:44
    kind of loaded terms but I think it's
  • 00:20:45
    important to think about what do you
  • 00:20:48
    actually value in life because I think
  • 00:20:51
    it's very rarely Jill that that new
  • 00:20:53
    dress I think it's very rarely for me
  • 00:20:56
    buying some little electronic gas bget
  • 00:20:58
    or trinket or something like it almost
  • 00:21:01
    never is right and I think because our
  • 00:21:03
    dopamine centers have been hacked like I
  • 00:21:05
    mean no joke I kid you not this is like
  • 00:21:08
    so perfect in the last 30 minutes I was
  • 00:21:11
    on Facebook which I try not to do and
  • 00:21:13
    you know they're always serving up ads I
  • 00:21:15
    literally click through which I very
  • 00:21:17
    rarely do I'm like oh this little
  • 00:21:19
    trinket could I don't even want to talk
  • 00:21:20
    about it because it's
  • 00:21:22
    embarrassing what was it
  • 00:21:25
    br
  • 00:21:26
    oh we've all had we all things that we
  • 00:21:30
    click through like everyone relates yeah
  • 00:21:32
    they're just so good they are so good at
  • 00:21:35
    targeting it used to be advertising was
  • 00:21:36
    just like newspaper ads or radio ads and
  • 00:21:40
    you had to be there at the right time to
  • 00:21:42
    get served the ad now you open your eyes
  • 00:21:45
    and there's a targeted ad that's
  • 00:21:48
    tailored to you it's just a lot harder
  • 00:21:52
    yeah you you couldn't have nailed that
  • 00:21:54
    even more with the word tailored because
  • 00:21:57
    mine was literally tailor Swift
  • 00:22:00
    inspired way well the last time we were
  • 00:22:02
    on with you you had taken your daughter
  • 00:22:04
    to the a store I think yeah and I've
  • 00:22:06
    been I've been again since the last time
  • 00:22:08
    I spoke with you both so I a fullon
  • 00:22:11
    Swifty at this
  • 00:22:12
    point okay so that's a
  • 00:22:16
    little into my algorithm here but I
  • 00:22:19
    think it's really important so Jill
  • 00:22:21
    you're talking about right this the
  • 00:22:23
    context for creativity it's these
  • 00:22:25
    parameters but again it's also this to
  • 00:22:28
    me is a deep understanding of yourself
  • 00:22:31
    right and this is the hardest part about
  • 00:22:34
    life like inner work is really difficult
  • 00:22:38
    and it is not an overnight thing this is
  • 00:22:41
    a lifetime Journey it's a multi-decade
  • 00:22:44
    journey but it has to start somewhere
  • 00:22:46
    right and I think honestly I think and
  • 00:22:50
    I've seen this in my own life that
  • 00:22:51
    really questioning what I spend money on
  • 00:22:54
    has helped my inner work Journey because
  • 00:22:57
    at the end of the day I get down to I
  • 00:23:00
    need so little in my life it is stunning
  • 00:23:05
    when I think about it like I'm also on a
  • 00:23:07
    minimalism Journey so again we'll
  • 00:23:09
    probably talk about that later but like
  • 00:23:10
    at this point I could probably live on
  • 00:23:13
    one suitcase I have a couple of uh
  • 00:23:16
    digital subscriptions because I want to
  • 00:23:18
    watch my English Premier League soccer I
  • 00:23:20
    have a $15 a month gym membership and I
  • 00:23:23
    need some food and frankly I need
  • 00:23:26
    connection right like that's actually
  • 00:23:28
    where I crave and that's you're able to
  • 00:23:30
    do that over the internet now you're
  • 00:23:32
    able to like I'm able to travel a lot
  • 00:23:34
    more often so like that's where I'm
  • 00:23:36
    leading on these experiments but I'd
  • 00:23:38
    love to hear like where have your
  • 00:23:40
    experiments taken you a couple of
  • 00:23:42
    thoughts here and a tangible piece first
  • 00:23:45
    of all I want to say that yes it is a
  • 00:23:48
    journey and it is about self-
  • 00:23:50
    understanding but I think it can be
  • 00:23:52
    helpful to frame it as a kindness to
  • 00:23:54
    ourselves and valuing ourselves to give
  • 00:23:58
    ourselves the opportunity to learn who
  • 00:24:01
    we are how we tick how we operate and
  • 00:24:04
    recognize that we are morphing and
  • 00:24:07
    changing we're Dynamic beings the things
  • 00:24:09
    that maybe we used to love or were
  • 00:24:11
    fulfilling a decade ago are no longer
  • 00:24:15
    that anymore and allowing ourselves also
  • 00:24:17
    the room to shift and change and
  • 00:24:20
    redefine is important here and I think
  • 00:24:23
    too there's this concept that we talk
  • 00:24:25
    about a lot of practicing curiosity and
  • 00:24:28
    really this stance of not knowing
  • 00:24:31
    approaching ourselves like a science
  • 00:24:33
    experiment a little bit and observing
  • 00:24:36
    objectively as possible not coming at it
  • 00:24:39
    with a shaming perspective or a heavily
  • 00:24:42
    questioning perspective but rather hm
  • 00:24:45
    what is it about that activity that I
  • 00:24:47
    like so much what is it about spending
  • 00:24:49
    on this that makes me feel fulfilled or
  • 00:24:53
    if it's not fulfilling me what am I
  • 00:24:55
    trying to get at here and for the
  • 00:24:57
    tangible piece here an experiment that
  • 00:24:59
    we can all do is a 90-day transaction
  • 00:25:02
    inventory like you said looking at your
  • 00:25:04
    spending can reveal a lot and so we
  • 00:25:06
    recommend going through the last 90 days
  • 00:25:09
    of spending so three months is going to
  • 00:25:11
    give us a really good picture of the
  • 00:25:13
    decisions that we make some of the
  • 00:25:15
    habits that we have and maybe capture
  • 00:25:17
    some of those outliers that might have
  • 00:25:19
    existed so Gathering all of this into a
  • 00:25:21
    spreadsheet and being able to look at
  • 00:25:24
    where am I spending the most money the
  • 00:25:26
    beautiful thing about spreadsheets is
  • 00:25:27
    that we can can organize them in all
  • 00:25:29
    sorts of ways we can organize by date we
  • 00:25:31
    can organize by location we can organize
  • 00:25:33
    by time frame and amount of money spent
  • 00:25:35
    however we kind of want to run this
  • 00:25:38
    experiment so to speak we can identify
  • 00:25:40
    where am I spending the most kind of
  • 00:25:42
    discretionary money what time of day is
  • 00:25:45
    it how might this help me understand the
  • 00:25:48
    ways in which I impulse spend and we can
  • 00:25:51
    even create another column within this
  • 00:25:53
    spreadsheet to journal a little bit not
  • 00:25:56
    lengthy we're not writing paragraphs
  • 00:25:58
    here but to identify what came before
  • 00:26:01
    this purchase can I remember what I was
  • 00:26:03
    thinking or feeling or who I was with or
  • 00:26:06
    the need that I thought that I was
  • 00:26:08
    trying to meet by doing this you don't
  • 00:26:10
    have to ask all those questions but pick
  • 00:26:12
    what works for you and what we're going
  • 00:26:14
    to find is some observations rising to
  • 00:26:17
    the surface of okay this is where I
  • 00:26:19
    typically impulse spend I'm apparently
  • 00:26:22
    spending a lot when I'm feeling you know
  • 00:26:24
    certain types of emotions whether I'm
  • 00:26:26
    really happy I was celebratory
  • 00:26:28
    or I was a little down in the dumps or I
  • 00:26:31
    felt like I was lacking connection and I
  • 00:26:33
    went for these things in just observing
  • 00:26:36
    just asking ourselves these questions
  • 00:26:38
    avoiding why questions because why can
  • 00:26:41
    put us in automatic fight mode set us on
  • 00:26:44
    the defense a little bit but rather
  • 00:26:46
    asking what was it about this purchase
  • 00:26:48
    when was this Purchase made what did it
  • 00:26:50
    do for me and then that can inform our
  • 00:26:53
    action but there's so much self-standing
  • 00:26:56
    that's going to happen before we get to
  • 00:26:59
    okay now what behaviors can I replace
  • 00:27:01
    this with you're also going to be able
  • 00:27:02
    to see if maybe you're spending a lot of
  • 00:27:04
    money on other people versus yourself so
  • 00:27:07
    you're spending a lot on your kids and
  • 00:27:09
    nothing on yourself or for your family
  • 00:27:12
    members and nothing on yourself or in
  • 00:27:14
    your business and nothing in your
  • 00:27:15
    personal life so it's going to reveal a
  • 00:27:17
    lot of these other things too even if
  • 00:27:19
    you don't consider yourself like a
  • 00:27:21
    Superfluous spender yeah you both know
  • 00:27:24
    we love nothing more at Chi than
  • 00:27:26
    actionable takeaways so I think that
  • 00:27:28
    90-day transaction inventory avoiding
  • 00:27:30
    those why questions but trying to get to
  • 00:27:32
    hey where was I when this was happening
  • 00:27:35
    for everybody listening that is a
  • 00:27:37
    massive takeaway I think that can
  • 00:27:39
    dramatically improve your life if you do
  • 00:27:41
    that now I I want to really because I
  • 00:27:43
    think stories make the world go around
  • 00:27:45
    honestly and that's why I do try to dive
  • 00:27:47
    into into my own personal example pretty
  • 00:27:50
    often because I think sometimes people
  • 00:27:52
    can take away just those little like oh
  • 00:27:55
    I would have never thought about that
  • 00:27:57
    unless Brad said it or Jill or Jen like
  • 00:27:59
    are there any things that each of you
  • 00:28:01
    have found in your own experimentation
  • 00:28:04
    that you've been surprised by that has
  • 00:28:07
    added value to your life so not in my
  • 00:28:10
    life but there's a story from the book
  • 00:28:11
    that I really like telling that is a
  • 00:28:13
    really good example so our friend Paige
  • 00:28:17
    she started a new job like right out of
  • 00:28:20
    college and she was so excited you know
  • 00:28:24
    as she started and she started making
  • 00:28:26
    money she started buying like new
  • 00:28:27
    clothes for this new job she was
  • 00:28:29
    changing out her College wardrobe for
  • 00:28:31
    her adult wardrobe which was great and
  • 00:28:33
    then after a few months realized she
  • 00:28:35
    hates this job and now she doesn't need
  • 00:28:38
    to buy clothes anymore but she continues
  • 00:28:40
    to go on her lunch break and buy clothes
  • 00:28:43
    shoes handbags makeup all this stuff
  • 00:28:46
    just to escape the job just to get away
  • 00:28:49
    and she didn't realize what she was
  • 00:28:51
    doing until a year in and she had spent
  • 00:28:55
    she was living with her parents eating
  • 00:28:57
    their food she realized she had spent
  • 00:28:58
    her entire $60,000 salary on stuff like
  • 00:29:03
    just without realizing it and so at the
  • 00:29:07
    end there was you know a little
  • 00:29:09
    inventory of transactions right like
  • 00:29:12
    where did all this money go and where
  • 00:29:13
    she was able to pinpoint that it's these
  • 00:29:16
    lunch breaks shopping trips so then
  • 00:29:19
    comes you know a lot of you guys will be
  • 00:29:21
    familiar with atomic habits and all of
  • 00:29:23
    the Q yeah so what we're really looking
  • 00:29:25
    at is cues right preceding event
  • 00:29:28
    person place Time stuff like that so she
  • 00:29:32
    identified like two cues the main one
  • 00:29:35
    was her job the location so she
  • 00:29:38
    immediately started looking for a new
  • 00:29:39
    job but she didn't find one overnight so
  • 00:29:42
    she had to find an alternative that was
  • 00:29:44
    you know she wanted to just get out on
  • 00:29:47
    her lunch break she couldn't leave all
  • 00:29:49
    together so she could get out for an
  • 00:29:51
    hour that was really what she was after
  • 00:29:54
    and she just found herself at the mall
  • 00:29:56
    so instead she started going going to a
  • 00:29:58
    park she just brought her lunch and she
  • 00:30:01
    took it to a park so she was still able
  • 00:30:03
    to escape for that hour a day but she
  • 00:30:05
    wasn't tempted to spend money and so
  • 00:30:08
    like one day and I love this like part
  • 00:30:10
    of the story but she was like one day I
  • 00:30:12
    was just sitting under a tree at this
  • 00:30:14
    park and the Sun was shining and birds
  • 00:30:15
    were chirping and it was like this
  • 00:30:16
    picturesque beautiful scene and she's
  • 00:30:18
    like what was I doing like spending an
  • 00:30:21
    hour a day inside a dingy Mall wasting
  • 00:30:24
    my money when this is truly beautiful
  • 00:30:28
    and fulfilling and so like eventually
  • 00:30:30
    she did leave and she got to the major Q
  • 00:30:33
    trigger but she forced herself to get
  • 00:30:36
    creative after she identified all these
  • 00:30:38
    habits and like she wasn't even thinking
  • 00:30:40
    about values based bending at the time
  • 00:30:41
    but it was just like looking at these
  • 00:30:43
    tangible habits and getting creative
  • 00:30:45
    with what she could change for me I
  • 00:30:48
    think similarly shopping as an activity
  • 00:30:51
    is one of the draws for impulse spending
  • 00:30:54
    for me I am accustomed to just on the
  • 00:30:57
    weekends it's how I grew up my mom and I
  • 00:30:59
    would go to the mall as teenagers we
  • 00:31:01
    would meet up at the mall just there
  • 00:31:04
    wasn't a lot going on so you just shop
  • 00:31:06
    around and hope you had 20 bucks your
  • 00:31:09
    pocket how are we uh dating
  • 00:31:12
    ourselves yeah exactly and I still love
  • 00:31:15
    it getting out of the house and kind of
  • 00:31:18
    paired with the thrill of the hunt a
  • 00:31:20
    little bit I love digging even at a
  • 00:31:22
    thrift store I love just digging through
  • 00:31:25
    piles of stuff and finding the Hidden
  • 00:31:27
    Gem but it got to a point where I don't
  • 00:31:30
    need this stuff though especially when I
  • 00:31:32
    lived in a vehicle essentially I I
  • 00:31:36
    couldn't have more stuff it was I needed
  • 00:31:38
    to deal with the four bowls and the two
  • 00:31:40
    forks that I had and move on with my
  • 00:31:43
    life and I think it has propelled me
  • 00:31:45
    into this even continual years later
  • 00:31:48
    identifying new things to try I think
  • 00:31:51
    I'm a person who needs a decently high
  • 00:31:53
    level of stimulation I've learned about
  • 00:31:55
    myself and so I need different activity
  • 00:31:58
    but it doesn't mean that I have to go
  • 00:31:59
    shopping that now has become a little
  • 00:32:02
    boring to me I want something different
  • 00:32:04
    and so even just in the past year I have
  • 00:32:08
    engaged in new things that I have now
  • 00:32:11
    found I really enjoy I took up sourdough
  • 00:32:14
    baking a little bit late to the party I
  • 00:32:16
    know everyone was doing it in 2020 but I
  • 00:32:18
    did it in 2024 yeah I've been going with
  • 00:32:21
    friends to trivia night and I joined a
  • 00:32:25
    book club I used to love reading and
  • 00:32:28
    just detached from it for so long and
  • 00:32:30
    now with other people kind of getting
  • 00:32:34
    together chatting about something
  • 00:32:35
    identifying what we're going to read
  • 00:32:37
    next gave me not just an activity to do
  • 00:32:39
    through the month to engage in new
  • 00:32:41
    resources but people connection that I
  • 00:32:45
    can get together with then monthly and
  • 00:32:47
    so I'm trying out all of these new
  • 00:32:49
    things none of it's costing me money
  • 00:32:50
    thanks to the library and I'm learning
  • 00:32:53
    so much about myself and really actually
  • 00:32:55
    fulfilling those higher needs in ways
  • 00:32:58
    that actually hit the target rather than
  • 00:33:01
    just trying to throw money to solve my
  • 00:33:03
    problems I love that so very much I
  • 00:33:05
    think that is the kind of
  • 00:33:07
    experimentation that we should all we
  • 00:33:08
    should all be doing it's just trying to
  • 00:33:10
    understand ourselves a little bit more
  • 00:33:12
    and being creative right like that's
  • 00:33:14
    actually one of the backgrounds of fi in
  • 00:33:17
    general like we're living just this
  • 00:33:19
    slightly different life hopefully you
  • 00:33:22
    don't feel deprived like that's how I've
  • 00:33:23
    always thought of it as like this fun
  • 00:33:25
    game that I get to play creativity is
  • 00:33:28
    really the subtext of it I I rarely use
  • 00:33:30
    that word but that is the subtext is I'm
  • 00:33:32
    living the same middle or even upper
  • 00:33:34
    middle class life as everybody around me
  • 00:33:37
    and I'm getting wildly wealthy at the
  • 00:33:38
    same time like that's that's the fun
  • 00:33:41
    stuff about F right like it's crazy for
  • 00:33:44
    me I think some of the joy is in
  • 00:33:46
    identifying that it's the simple
  • 00:33:48
    luxuries of life that are actually the
  • 00:33:51
    most fulfilling that it is not this
  • 00:33:54
    extravagant lifestyle that I have to
  • 00:33:56
    find because like you said it's not
  • 00:33:58
    deprivation it's really identifying oh
  • 00:34:00
    it's not these lavish things that bring
  • 00:34:02
    me joy contentment peace it's these
  • 00:34:05
    Simple Pleasures that I identify work
  • 00:34:08
    for me and bring me joy yeah it's not
  • 00:34:10
    wanting less it's wanting different and
  • 00:34:12
    and really targeting your want oh it's
  • 00:34:15
    wanting different damn mic drop from Jen
  • 00:34:19
    damn we can just close up shop right now
  • 00:34:22
    that's amazing yeah I think for me I've
  • 00:34:24
    found it's it's connection that is the
  • 00:34:27
    biggest
  • 00:34:28
    point of differentiation in my life now
  • 00:34:31
    compared with 10 years ago let's say but
  • 00:34:34
    that's me and you both have mentioned
  • 00:34:36
    values based spending a couple times now
  • 00:34:38
    and in your book you highlight something
  • 00:34:40
    the four FS as key values and I think
  • 00:34:44
    this is the perfect time to tie into
  • 00:34:46
    that because frankly there might be
  • 00:34:47
    somebody listening who okay yeah they've
  • 00:34:49
    heard us talk about creativity and
  • 00:34:51
    figuring this out and experimenting and
  • 00:34:52
    90-day transaction inventory and all
  • 00:34:54
    this stuff but like what if they're just
  • 00:34:56
    kind of a drift right now and they don't
  • 00:34:57
    know even where to to start in terms of
  • 00:35:00
    values spased spending yeah that's why
  • 00:35:02
    we kind of coined the four FS because it
  • 00:35:05
    can values based spending and figuring
  • 00:35:07
    out what you value can feel like this
  • 00:35:08
    really big daunting task and while it is
  • 00:35:11
    a lifelong journey it shouldn't feel
  • 00:35:14
    like an overwhelming task it's why we
  • 00:35:16
    start with a one- Monon no spend
  • 00:35:18
    challenge why we do a 90day transaction
  • 00:35:21
    inventory I was actually talking with my
  • 00:35:22
    husband last night and we're about to do
  • 00:35:24
    one and he's like well we should do a
  • 00:35:26
    one year like we should just do the full
  • 00:35:28
    year and I was like Travis aside from
  • 00:35:30
    the fact that I wrote a book on
  • 00:35:32
    this the goal is to get it done not for
  • 00:35:36
    it to be all-encompassing and perfect
  • 00:35:39
    but he didn't listen to me because I'm
  • 00:35:41
    his wife not his personal finance author
  • 00:35:44
    so so we start with manageable siiz
  • 00:35:49
    tasks right and so the four FS are
  • 00:35:53
    family friends faith and fulfilling work
  • 00:35:56
    and they are derived from that masa's
  • 00:35:58
    hierarchy of needs I was talking about
  • 00:36:00
    so if you are not familiar with the
  • 00:36:03
    hierarchy of needs it's five levels the
  • 00:36:05
    first is Food Water Shelter above it
  • 00:36:08
    we've got safety consistency so those
  • 00:36:11
    are our basic needs and in personal
  • 00:36:13
    finance we focus on those a lot but our
  • 00:36:17
    hired needs which is what we like to
  • 00:36:19
    focus on are things that you're going to
  • 00:36:21
    be pursuing even if your basic needs are
  • 00:36:24
    not 100% met obviously if you don't know
  • 00:36:26
    where your next meet is coming from
  • 00:36:28
    you're not going to be focusing on these
  • 00:36:30
    higher needs but if you're hungry and
  • 00:36:32
    you know you can eat later and a friend
  • 00:36:34
    asks you to you know go get a drink or
  • 00:36:37
    something you can put off dinner for a
  • 00:36:39
    while to go get that connection so our
  • 00:36:41
    next level is belonging friendship
  • 00:36:44
    romantic relationships above that we
  • 00:36:47
    have self-esteem respect and that's
  • 00:36:49
    where a lot of overspending if we don't
  • 00:36:52
    feel self-confident then we will
  • 00:36:54
    overspend on beauties skin care Fitness
  • 00:36:59
    clothes all these things to make
  • 00:37:01
    ourselves feel better when really we
  • 00:37:04
    need to be pursuing these other things
  • 00:37:06
    on the hierarchy and then at the very
  • 00:37:08
    top again self-actualization fulfillment
  • 00:37:11
    creativity the feeling like you are
  • 00:37:13
    living into your full human potential
  • 00:37:16
    that's a lot right so it can mean a lot
  • 00:37:18
    of different things to a lot of
  • 00:37:19
    different people but we found in studies
  • 00:37:22
    when Americans at least are pursuing a
  • 00:37:25
    quote unquote fulfilling life the things
  • 00:37:28
    that they mean in that tend to be
  • 00:37:31
    relationships with family relationships
  • 00:37:33
    with friends and belonging some kind of
  • 00:37:35
    Faith or spirituality practice and
  • 00:37:38
    that's where a lot of that
  • 00:37:39
    self-actualization and and passion come
  • 00:37:41
    in and then fulfilling work and they
  • 00:37:43
    actually said work and money so we just
  • 00:37:46
    combined those because we believe your
  • 00:37:49
    fulfilling work shouldn't make you broke
  • 00:37:51
    or poor right your fulfilling work
  • 00:37:53
    should pay you but it should also make
  • 00:37:57
    you feel like you're living into your
  • 00:37:59
    full potential so those are where to
  • 00:38:01
    start if you can base the way you're
  • 00:38:04
    spending your money and your time and
  • 00:38:08
    the way your physical spaces are set up
  • 00:38:09
    if you can arrange them to pursue those
  • 00:38:12
    things first then you have a much better
  • 00:38:16
    chance of getting that dream life that
  • 00:38:19
    you're picturing and as you go on you'll
  • 00:38:21
    find different things that fall into
  • 00:38:24
    there but the four FS are really you
  • 00:38:27
    know it's like that 8020 principle like
  • 00:38:29
    80% of the time it's going to be one of
  • 00:38:31
    those four and with this context I think
  • 00:38:34
    it can be helpful in doing that 90-day
  • 00:38:36
    transaction inventory with some of those
  • 00:38:38
    questions of what was this purchase
  • 00:38:41
    trying to get at was I trying to meet
  • 00:38:44
    one of my four Fs in buying this thing I
  • 00:38:47
    was just talking with somebody on the
  • 00:38:48
    podcast recently who was describing that
  • 00:38:52
    her online shopping was a very
  • 00:38:53
    vulnerable moment for her to realize oh
  • 00:38:56
    my I did just spend this week a lot of
  • 00:38:59
    money on clothing that I saw people
  • 00:39:02
    wearing on Instagram I thought it looked
  • 00:39:04
    so cute they are kind of representing
  • 00:39:08
    this lifestyle that I want and all these
  • 00:39:11
    friends are wearing this style of thing
  • 00:39:14
    she's like I think I bought that to fit
  • 00:39:17
    in to try and belong and to maybe
  • 00:39:20
    hopefully be a part of this group or
  • 00:39:23
    this club that how is that actually
  • 00:39:25
    going to happen between these like dig
  • 00:39:29
    don'tu yeah and I think a lot of it can
  • 00:39:32
    be very subconscious like that but when
  • 00:39:34
    we give ourselves the opportunity to ask
  • 00:39:37
    these questions it can feel vulnerable
  • 00:39:40
    but there is action that can be taken
  • 00:39:43
    from there and there's self-
  • 00:39:44
    understanding that we can walk away with
  • 00:39:46
    to know okay some of my spending might
  • 00:39:49
    be to reach some of these esteem needs
  • 00:39:52
    these friendship and family and Faith
  • 00:39:55
    needs are there other ways that could
  • 00:39:57
    meet that that actually meets the need
  • 00:40:00
    rather than circumvents it and then I
  • 00:40:02
    feel bummed about the amount of money
  • 00:40:03
    that I spent on it and wishing that I
  • 00:40:06
    hadn't have bought that or shaming
  • 00:40:08
    myself for it but instead how can this
  • 00:40:10
    help me choose differently I I love that
  • 00:40:13
    as a starting point so these four fs and
  • 00:40:15
    I think looking at the hierarchy of
  • 00:40:17
    needs is such an interesting exercise I
  • 00:40:19
    feel like because this to me is one of
  • 00:40:22
    maybe the I don't know paradoxes of fi
  • 00:40:26
    might be the the way to term this but I
  • 00:40:28
    feel like most people and this is not to
  • 00:40:29
    denigrate you a wide swath of of society
  • 00:40:32
    but like most people are just like
  • 00:40:33
    trying to get through the day whereas
  • 00:40:36
    one of the really fortunate aspects of
  • 00:40:39
    those of us in the FI Community who have
  • 00:40:41
    some Financial space who aren't at that
  • 00:40:44
    fight ORF flight stress every day of do
  • 00:40:47
    I have enough money to pay the bills and
  • 00:40:49
    that is not to minimize that that is an
  • 00:40:51
    everpresent stress for a significant
  • 00:40:54
    portion of society right but those of us
  • 00:40:56
    in the Community most of us are beyond
  • 00:41:00
    that point and then we get to move from
  • 00:41:02
    those bottom two levels of the hierarchy
  • 00:41:05
    up towards the top and even up towards
  • 00:41:08
    self-actualization right and and this to
  • 00:41:10
    me is where the Paradox comes in it's
  • 00:41:11
    like sometimes you can be more stressed
  • 00:41:14
    because like you're so close to maybe
  • 00:41:16
    what you see as like a Perfection if you
  • 00:41:18
    will and it reminds me of this book that
  • 00:41:20
    I've read recently called The Gap and
  • 00:41:22
    the gain so it's as opposed to focusing
  • 00:41:25
    on the negative aspect of the gap
  • 00:41:27
    between where you are and Perfection you
  • 00:41:30
    miss the gain from where you started to
  • 00:41:33
    where you are today and I feel like this
  • 00:41:35
    is a fundamental shift for me but
  • 00:41:38
    nevertheless I think a lot of us because
  • 00:41:41
    we have these lives a buddy of mine who
  • 00:41:43
    I quoted on the podcast in 2017 it was I
  • 00:41:47
    never dreamed past here okay and for a
  • 00:41:51
    lot of us right we've never dreamed past
  • 00:41:54
    where we are today I think this would be
  • 00:41:56
    kind of a a fun launching point for
  • 00:41:58
    conversation because right like we're so
  • 00:42:01
    fortunate but yet a lot of us focus on
  • 00:42:05
    what we're missing and I just feel like
  • 00:42:07
    we can do better and maybe maybe we can
  • 00:42:09
    help kind of lead that conversation I
  • 00:42:12
    feel this so deeply I have hit this
  • 00:42:15
    point where I'm realizing okay life is
  • 00:42:17
    short yes but sometimes it feels really
  • 00:42:21
    long and to recognize oh my I got to a
  • 00:42:25
    certain point in my social work care
  • 00:42:27
    that I thought was going to take me 20
  • 00:42:30
    years and really it took me five and
  • 00:42:33
    then it's like well now what because I
  • 00:42:35
    didn't think beyond that and I know Jen
  • 00:42:37
    and I have talked about debt payoff you
  • 00:42:39
    know okay we're just going hard at this
  • 00:42:43
    thing and it's the only thing that we
  • 00:42:45
    can see in front of us and then we reach
  • 00:42:47
    it and it's not the Nirvana that was
  • 00:42:50
    promised to us it's great I'm really
  • 00:42:52
    glad I accomplished it but it doesn't
  • 00:42:55
    solve all of my other problem s and in
  • 00:42:58
    fact now I've got to really hunker down
  • 00:43:00
    and understand money in a real way to
  • 00:43:02
    know what comes next after this and I
  • 00:43:04
    think this then is that call to the
  • 00:43:08
    radical middle I think it fits in a lot
  • 00:43:10
    of context here of okay we've got a goal
  • 00:43:13
    in mind but let's also look at the
  • 00:43:15
    bigger picture of Our Lives as well and
  • 00:43:18
    how can we still fulfill some of our
  • 00:43:20
    needs in the Here and Now honor the
  • 00:43:23
    season that we're in while we're working
  • 00:43:25
    towards this goal and not give every
  • 00:43:28
    ounce of our time energy and attention
  • 00:43:31
    to This One Singular thing that we could
  • 00:43:34
    find ourselves depleted on the other
  • 00:43:36
    side of or completely miss all of these
  • 00:43:38
    other aspects of living a really
  • 00:43:41
    beautiful life because we were so head
  • 00:43:44
    down in the sand so extreme on this one
  • 00:43:48
    thing but taking the holistic approach
  • 00:43:51
    to it and identifying how can I weave in
  • 00:43:54
    all these aspects of my personhood all
  • 00:43:56
    these aspects the four fs and really
  • 00:43:59
    find a lifestyle that fits for me now
  • 00:44:01
    that I'm also willing to be fluid with
  • 00:44:03
    in the future here's how it looks today
  • 00:44:06
    but I'm willing to make changes too in
  • 00:44:08
    years down the road if need be and there
  • 00:44:11
    is something to be said for Singularity
  • 00:44:13
    of Focus right I I Love the One Thing by
  • 00:44:16
    Gary Keller and Jay Papasan like what's
  • 00:44:18
    one thing you can do now which by
  • 00:44:20
    accomplishing will make everything else
  • 00:44:22
    easier or unnecessary in the future and
  • 00:44:25
    that is a route that we say you know
  • 00:44:27
    this is an important way to look at
  • 00:44:29
    goals but with that that is a very
  • 00:44:32
    seasonal approach and a short-term
  • 00:44:35
    approach to things and even that begs us
  • 00:44:39
    to consider the future we have to look
  • 00:44:42
    at how our goal now in the short term
  • 00:44:45
    impacts our future before we just
  • 00:44:47
    blindly go accomplishing it we always
  • 00:44:50
    have to be checking back in as we are
  • 00:44:54
    singularly focused on each of our goals
  • 00:44:57
    gos and again realizing that it's the
  • 00:45:00
    ends never justify the means all we have
  • 00:45:04
    are the ends right so like that's a lot
  • 00:45:06
    of the justification for people like
  • 00:45:09
    paying off debt or trying to retire
  • 00:45:11
    early very quickly like the ends they
  • 00:45:14
    justify the means whatever means
  • 00:45:16
    necessary but they don't because really
  • 00:45:18
    all we have is the journey and so if
  • 00:45:21
    your mindset is there then you can have
  • 00:45:23
    that Singularity of focus with goals and
  • 00:45:26
    not be come isolated by them yeah I
  • 00:45:30
    think this ties into so many things
  • 00:45:32
    we've talked about right so Jill said
  • 00:45:33
    before we are Dynamic beings I think
  • 00:45:36
    that's so important to remember is
  • 00:45:38
    things change things are constantly
  • 00:45:40
    changing if you think you're going to
  • 00:45:42
    set a plan in motion and it's going to
  • 00:45:44
    be the exact same plan 15 years from now
  • 00:45:48
    that's just not the reality of life
  • 00:45:50
    right it just isn't and Joe also said
  • 00:45:52
    like it's not the Nirvana I was promised
  • 00:45:54
    right whether this is debt free reaching
  • 00:45:57
    five right reaching some number on a
  • 00:45:59
    spreadsheet I don't know becoming CEO
  • 00:46:02
    going to Bali going to Bali right oh po
  • 00:46:05
    was really
  • 00:46:07
    great getting your business to seven
  • 00:46:09
    figures or whatever it is right like
  • 00:46:11
    there's no world the three of us are
  • 00:46:12
    here to tell you that is not the secret
  • 00:46:15
    it's just it isn't the answer that's not
  • 00:46:17
    the Liv reality of life it just simply
  • 00:46:20
    isn't life is a constant iterative
  • 00:46:23
    process of trying to figure out hey what
  • 00:46:27
    lights me up maybe in this season of
  • 00:46:29
    life and you're trying to get more
  • 00:46:31
    directionally accurate maybe
  • 00:46:33
    holistically but there are seasons of
  • 00:46:35
    life and we have to be okay with that
  • 00:46:37
    but if somebody thinks this again is
  • 00:46:39
    another maybe Paradox right it's like if
  • 00:46:42
    you think your life is going to be this
  • 00:46:44
    wonderful unicorns and rainbows shanga
  • 00:46:47
    when you hit your F number I am here to
  • 00:46:49
    tell you that is not the way the world
  • 00:46:51
    works it just is not now are you in a
  • 00:46:54
    dramatically better spot when you've
  • 00:46:56
    reached five or when you're on the path
  • 00:46:57
    toy than when you started very obviously
  • 00:47:01
    you are right like there is no world
  • 00:47:03
    where I'm going to say to anybody that
  • 00:47:05
    following the path of fight isn't going
  • 00:47:07
    to put you in a better spot it is but if
  • 00:47:09
    you think that's the sole answer it is
  • 00:47:11
    not it just isn't and if you think you
  • 00:47:14
    can figure it out when you get there and
  • 00:47:16
    ignore it on the way there you can't
  • 00:47:19
    yeah there is a research study that we
  • 00:47:21
    referenced in the book about the amount
  • 00:47:23
    of money that people think is going to
  • 00:47:26
    make them happy and what they did
  • 00:47:29
    discover is yes as incomes increased to
  • 00:47:33
    a certain extent it did cause people
  • 00:47:36
    greater levels of satisfaction the
  • 00:47:38
    previous study was at about like $60,000
  • 00:47:41
    but now they've redone it and it's
  • 00:47:43
    actually at like about a half a million
  • 00:47:45
    and then you plateau which does make a
  • 00:47:48
    lot more sense to me now however it only
  • 00:47:52
    increases satisfaction to the degree
  • 00:47:54
    that people were already s satisfied and
  • 00:47:57
    had these practices in place already so
  • 00:48:00
    the more money didn't make unsatisfied
  • 00:48:03
    people satisfied it's the practice of
  • 00:48:07
    contentment gratitude finding what
  • 00:48:10
    brings you Joy along the way that can
  • 00:48:13
    follow with you and carry on to yeah
  • 00:48:16
    this is I'm finding my enough and so I
  • 00:48:18
    think that that call like what you're
  • 00:48:20
    describing here is to say while we are
  • 00:48:23
    focused on goals how can we also find
  • 00:48:25
    these simple Pleasures these little
  • 00:48:27
    luxuries of life that we can be engaging
  • 00:48:30
    in that go with us whatever season of
  • 00:48:34
    life that we find ourselves in these
  • 00:48:36
    ways of identifying here's how I care
  • 00:48:39
    for myself here's how I value myself
  • 00:48:40
    here's how I engage in family friends
  • 00:48:43
    faith in fulfilling work because that
  • 00:48:45
    number in the bank account will shift
  • 00:48:48
    hopefully it goes up sometimes it'll go
  • 00:48:51
    down but the things that are the
  • 00:48:53
    constant that we have control over I do
  • 00:48:56
    think worth cultivating that for the
  • 00:48:59
    long term it's truly that Adam Sandler
  • 00:49:01
    SNL skit where he's the Italian tour
  • 00:49:03
    guide and he's like if you are not happy
  • 00:49:07
    Italy will not make you happy if you are
  • 00:49:09
    sad in America you will be sad in Italy
  • 00:49:13
    if you are happy in America you will be
  • 00:49:15
    happy in Italy that is truly what it is
  • 00:49:18
    with money good summary Chad that is
  • 00:49:21
    amazing okay we're going to need to dig
  • 00:49:23
    that up and put that in the show notes I
  • 00:49:25
    love that skin
  • 00:49:27
    you're gonna help me find that you're
  • 00:49:28
    gonna help absolutely okay so this has
  • 00:49:32
    been essentially the most important
  • 00:49:33
    conversation we can have in our
  • 00:49:35
    community so thank you both for having
  • 00:49:37
    it with me I think this is so critical
  • 00:49:40
    as you know of course we always like to
  • 00:49:42
    leave on on actionable tips right so
  • 00:49:45
    while the theory I think is so critical
  • 00:49:47
    like the Hallmark of CH ofi has always
  • 00:49:49
    been the actionable so you talk in the
  • 00:49:51
    book about saving smarter not harder and
  • 00:49:54
    high impact strategies for saving on on
  • 00:49:57
    essential items and maybe even other
  • 00:49:59
    things so why don't we kind of land the
  • 00:50:02
    plane here in terms of Are there
  • 00:50:04
    specific tips that you could give
  • 00:50:06
    somebody like hey I want to make a
  • 00:50:08
    change in my life tomorrow just one
  • 00:50:11
    thing like where can they think about
  • 00:50:14
    maybe making that high impact change so
  • 00:50:16
    if you're thinking about a high impact
  • 00:50:18
    change to actually like saving money
  • 00:50:22
    again I love the 8020 rule so we've
  • 00:50:25
    really tried to change frugality to be
  • 00:50:28
    defined as good stewardship of your
  • 00:50:30
    resources that's money time natural
  • 00:50:34
    resources physical space all of that
  • 00:50:36
    mental energy and then in the
  • 00:50:39
    traditional sense of frugality the ways
  • 00:50:40
    that you save money we like to take an
  • 00:50:43
    8020 approach and so this can be really
  • 00:50:46
    freeing especially for a lot of people
  • 00:50:48
    in the FI Community who really want to
  • 00:50:51
    hold money close in everything and
  • 00:50:54
    realizing that Americans according to
  • 00:50:57
    the Bureau of Labor Statistics spend
  • 00:50:59
    most of their money in just three
  • 00:51:01
    categories it's 80% if you include four
  • 00:51:04
    but the fourth category is investing so
  • 00:51:05
    we don't want to lower that yeah so
  • 00:51:07
    we'll look at the top three which is
  • 00:51:09
    about I would say like 6070 it is
  • 00:51:12
    housing transportation and food so if
  • 00:51:15
    you focused on just those three things
  • 00:51:18
    and keeping those three things in check
  • 00:51:21
    you wouldn't have to worry about any
  • 00:51:23
    other expense no coupon no rebate apps
  • 00:51:28
    no BOGO sales nobody cares it's fine you
  • 00:51:32
    could buy all the sustainable and local
  • 00:51:35
    everything and it would be fine if you
  • 00:51:38
    just kept those three areas in check and
  • 00:51:41
    realize no expense is quote unquote
  • 00:51:44
    fixed everything can be creatively
  • 00:51:48
    reworked I like the sound of that so you
  • 00:51:51
    may not be able to change your housing
  • 00:51:52
    situation tomorrow but it could be
  • 00:51:55
    something wor worth looking at we don't
  • 00:51:58
    want to assume well that's fixed so what
  • 00:52:01
    else can I do let's look at it and it
  • 00:52:03
    may be that you decide yep I'm going to
  • 00:52:05
    stay here this makes the most sense for
  • 00:52:07
    me but there's also people who when they
  • 00:52:09
    give themselves the opportunity to
  • 00:52:10
    question it can realize actually I don't
  • 00:52:13
    think I want to be a homeowner anymore
  • 00:52:15
    it's not the Nirvana that was promised
  • 00:52:17
    to me and it actually costs so much more
  • 00:52:20
    than I ever would have thought that it
  • 00:52:21
    would have cost and maybe oh I really
  • 00:52:24
    love living in this area but I don't
  • 00:52:26
    don't actually have to live in this
  • 00:52:27
    neighborhood or what if I did take that
  • 00:52:30
    job in another state and try out another
  • 00:52:33
    area with possibly a lower cost of
  • 00:52:35
    living so that is possible and also
  • 00:52:38
    looking at if you are looking at buying
  • 00:52:40
    a house the price point that you are
  • 00:52:42
    looking at purchasing that that house at
  • 00:52:44
    Eric and I bought our house off of my
  • 00:52:48
    salary alone a pre-approval off of my
  • 00:52:50
    salary so very conservatively for the
  • 00:52:54
    two of us and so it's these types of
  • 00:52:56
    decisions that can help us in the long
  • 00:52:58
    term rather than okay yeah I like the
  • 00:53:00
    houses that are
  • 00:53:01
    $300,000 but then we get talked into a
  • 00:53:04
    $350,000 home and just that extra
  • 00:53:07
    $50,000 over the life of the loan
  • 00:53:09
    depending on our interest rate could
  • 00:53:11
    mean hundreds of thousands of dollars
  • 00:53:13
    that we are then not able to invest and
  • 00:53:16
    grow our money so really being strategic
  • 00:53:19
    about a housing decision and then of
  • 00:53:21
    course like Jen said with Transportation
  • 00:53:23
    do we have to have the cars that we have
  • 00:53:26
    do we have to have multiple Vehicles my
  • 00:53:28
    husband and I now granted we work from
  • 00:53:30
    home but we only have one vehicle well
  • 00:53:33
    we have one car we have two scooters and
  • 00:53:35
    that's very fun talking about Simple
  • 00:53:38
    Pleasures of Life riding that scooter
  • 00:53:40
    around downtown and that works for us
  • 00:53:42
    because we live in kind of a metro area
  • 00:53:45
    so we're able to if even both of us need
  • 00:53:48
    to go different directions one can take
  • 00:53:49
    the scooter the other can take the car
  • 00:53:52
    and then of course food and there's all
  • 00:53:53
    sorts of things you can do with that
  • 00:53:55
    meal meal prep that is a whole other
  • 00:53:59
    episode 200 episodes and we is something
  • 00:54:01
    you could start tomorrow these other
  • 00:54:03
    decisions are made every five to 15
  • 00:54:06
    years but food decisions are made daily
  • 00:54:09
    so if you're looking for something
  • 00:54:10
    actionable in the immediate looking at
  • 00:54:12
    your food purchases and ways that you
  • 00:54:14
    can decrease costs there would be ideal
  • 00:54:17
    yeah totally agree that's the lwh
  • 00:54:19
    hanging fruit of the big three expenses
  • 00:54:21
    you can start in that tomorrow with meal
  • 00:54:23
    planning start cooking at home a little
  • 00:54:25
    bit just intentional I think would be my
  • 00:54:28
    biggest advice I think most people are
  • 00:54:29
    reflexively hey it's 5:45 we're driving
  • 00:54:33
    home and what do we do now right that's
  • 00:54:36
    when you make poor decisions so it's
  • 00:54:37
    just like anything in life it's
  • 00:54:38
    long-term thinking it's just looking a
  • 00:54:40
    little bit down the field to making a
  • 00:54:42
    positive decision and Jill I love it's
  • 00:54:45
    not the Nirvana that was promised to me
  • 00:54:47
    I think that's the takeaway from uh
  • 00:54:50
    American Society at large right it's
  • 00:54:53
    like that's a total random aside I I
  • 00:54:55
    don't that's a
  • 00:54:58
    takeaway no that's the the tongue and
  • 00:55:00
    cheek takeaway but um we're all a little
  • 00:55:02
    jaded at this point in our Decades of
  • 00:55:05
    Life yep
  • 00:55:06
    2024 y the year of being Jaden now um
  • 00:55:10
    yeah I don't think I'll ever own a home
  • 00:55:12
    again like I I as you were describing
  • 00:55:13
    that I'm like oh it just doesn't appeal
  • 00:55:16
    to me it's just not just not thing I was
  • 00:55:18
    thinking the same like even if you do
  • 00:55:20
    want to own a home maybe owning a second
  • 00:55:22
    or third or maybe being a landlord is
  • 00:55:24
    not for you like I am finding out so
  • 00:55:29
    that was big a big one in our personal
  • 00:55:32
    finance Community you know get your do
  • 00:55:35
    IED and it works for some people works
  • 00:55:37
    for some people and it is not for
  • 00:55:39
    everybody it is not and that's okay I
  • 00:55:41
    think right like maybe maybe that's
  • 00:55:43
    where the takeaway we leave with is it's
  • 00:55:46
    okay to experiment and just find out
  • 00:55:48
    something isn't for you you've learned
  • 00:55:51
    something that's not a failure it means
  • 00:55:52
    you've learned something about yourself
  • 00:55:54
    it means you've learned something about
  • 00:55:55
    the world and that is a win as far as
  • 00:55:57
    I'm concerned life is a series of
  • 00:56:00
    experiments hundreds and thousands of
  • 00:56:02
    them and you're just learning a little
  • 00:56:04
    bit more about yourself every single
  • 00:56:06
    time Jen Jill you too Rock I love
  • 00:56:09
    chatting with you love love love thank
  • 00:56:11
    you so much for coming on so okay I'm
  • 00:56:13
    gonna try to fill in the blanks people
  • 00:56:15
    can find you obviously at The Frugal
  • 00:56:16
    Friends Podcast they're listening to a
  • 00:56:18
    podcast now on a podcast player just
  • 00:56:20
    search for Frugal Friends they're
  • 00:56:21
    amazing and the book is coming out
  • 00:56:24
    January 7th everywhere books are found
  • 00:56:26
    so buy what you love without going broke
  • 00:56:29
    and we will obviously have a link in the
  • 00:56:30
    show notes is there anything else that
  • 00:56:33
    you want to send people too or are those
  • 00:56:35
    the two spots well I think I would just
  • 00:56:37
    add like yes if you feel like you want
  • 00:56:40
    to improve how you spend money the book
  • 00:56:43
    will be great but even if you don't feel
  • 00:56:44
    like that's where you're at we're hoping
  • 00:56:47
    to usher in this New Perspective and
  • 00:56:50
    personal finance exactly what you've
  • 00:56:51
    been here like listening to for the last
  • 00:56:53
    hour that we feel like a lot of this
  • 00:56:55
    conversation is missing
  • 00:56:56
    from the business and investing
  • 00:56:58
    bookshelf we want to usher in that
  • 00:57:00
    conversation and the only way more
  • 00:57:02
    writers with similar voices will get
  • 00:57:04
    heard is if this book does well so I
  • 00:57:08
    would encourage you to buy a copy and
  • 00:57:11
    give it to a friend that wants to buy
  • 00:57:14
    what they love without going broke and
  • 00:57:17
    yeah let's further this conversation for
  • 00:57:20
    decades to come through not just our
  • 00:57:23
    voices but a lot more diverse voices is
  • 00:57:27
    I love that absolutely love that thank
  • 00:57:28
    you both again for coming on and to
  • 00:57:30
    everyone get this book it's really great
  • 00:57:33
    it's genuinely great I read it and
  • 00:57:35
    really enjoyed it so uh until next time
  • 00:57:38
    thanks for listening and being part of
  • 00:57:40
    the chifi community
Tag
  • frugality
  • personal finance
  • dopamine
  • no spend challenge
  • radical middle
  • values
  • spending habits
  • financial independence
  • creative alternatives
  • book release