Crypto at a Crossroads | World Economic Forum Annual Meeting 2025

00:46:59
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPSvViirVeE

Sintesi

TLDRThe panel at the World Economic Forum in Davos discussed the cryptocurrency ecosystem's current state, highlighting its volatility and rapid technological advancements. A central theme was the need for regulatory clarity to foster a conducive environment for innovation. Various panelists noted the increasing interest from institutional investors and the growing adoption of stable coins. The discussion also touched on implications of political shifts, particularly how Trump's presidency could influence regulatory approaches. Overall, there was a consensus on the potential for blockchain technology to improve financial systems globally and the importance of making crypto more accessible to the general public.

Punti di forza

  • 💡 Crypto is dynamic yet volatile, requiring clear regulations.
  • 👥 Institutional interest in crypto is growing rapidly.
  • 🌍 Digital assets are seen as vital for economic freedom.
  • 🔍 Regulatory clarity is essential for market confidence.
  • 📈 Payments with stable coins have surged significantly.
  • 🗳️ Political changes might reshape the landscape for crypto.
  • 📚 Education and transparency are crucial for consumers.
  • 🌐 Adoption is bolstered by technology integrating with traditional finance.

Linea temporale

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    The panel introduces experts discussing the current state of the cryptocurrency ecosystem, emphasizing its dynamic yet volatile nature due to rapid technological advancement and increasing institutional adoption, raising the need for coordinated regulatory oversight.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Panelists highlight a disconnect between the rapid growth of the crypto space and the traditional finance sector, signaling a shift in perspective where both realms need to collaborate for future growth and innovation.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    The incoming U.S. administration is perceived as offering a more favorable regulatory environment for crypto, with expectations for clearer rules that could accelerate investment and innovation in the industry.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    The attention on crypto is heightened by political developments, particularly a potential return of Trump to the presidency, signaling a supportive stance towards crypto innovation, as evidenced by rising Bitcoin prices and associated political engagement.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Discussions on regulatory frameworks suggest the need for policies grounded in clarity and transparency rather than being swayed by political interests, highlighting the evolution of regulation as essential for industry growth.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Panelists reflect on the need for bipartisan support for crypto regulations, noting the importance of balancing traditional and crypto-focused legislative actions to facilitate healthy industry growth.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    Addressing the emergence of meme coins and their impact, panelists suggest that while they could attract negative attention, the underlying technology and its applications hold more significant long-term potential for the financial ecosystem.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    Panelists discuss how traditional financial institutions are adapting to the rise of blockchain technology, indicating areas where they can integrate new innovations to remain competitive in a rapidly evolving market.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:46:59

    As the panel wraps up, the future of crypto is forecasted to be driven by increased clarity in regulation, adoption driven by stable coin payments, and technology's role in global financial inclusion.

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Mappa mentale

Video Domande e Risposte

  • What is the current state of the cryptocurrency ecosystem?

    The cryptocurrency ecosystem is dynamic yet volatile, with rapid technological innovations and growing interest from institutional investors.

  • How do regulations affect the crypto industry?

    Regulations need to be clear and comprehensive to facilitate innovation while protecting consumers. There has been a push for more constructive regulation.

  • What is the potential impact of Trump's presidency on cryptocurrency?

    Trump's pro-crypto stance could lead to clearer regulations and a favorable environment for crypto investment.

  • What role do stable coins play in the crypto market?

    Stable coins have seen significant growth and are integral for payments, with projections suggesting continued expansion in their usage.

  • How can we achieve mass adoption of cryptocurrency?

    Simplifying technology usage, enhancing regulatory clarity, and integrating crypto with traditional financial services are key for broader adoption.

  • What are the challenges in regulating cryptocurrency?

    The fast-paced evolution of technology often outpaces regulatory frameworks, making it difficult to establish effective regulations.

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  • 00:00:01
    [Music]
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    e
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    for for
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    okay hi everyone welcome to the world
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    economic Forum in Davos we have a
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    brilliant panel today on crypto at
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    Crossroads first um I'm spria shrivastav
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    International executive editor at
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    Business Insider your moderator for
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    today I'll introduce our panel very
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    shortly um just to say this panel is
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    keeping in line with the work done by
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    The Forum on digital assets and
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    regulation um two quick housekeeping
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    notes if you're watching want to be
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    involved um you know you could post on X
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    uh with #
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    w25 um and also we'll have some time in
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    the end for questions and answers so
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    please start thinking of your questions
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    now we'll open the floor um towards the
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    end of the panel um great so we have a
  • 00:02:12
    brilliant panel here I'm going to
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    introduce the panel to my left is lra
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    Kyoko a governor South African Reserve
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    Bank to his uh next to him is Jennifer
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    Johnson CEO Franklin resources um next
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    to Jennifer is Brian Armstrong CEO coin
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    B then we have denell Dixon um who's the
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    CEO of Stellar development foundation
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    and finally we've got Anthony scaramucci
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    founder skybridge Capital welcome to you
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    all crypto is back it's dominating uh in
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    Davos it's dominating conversations it's
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    like Davos in 2020 2021 again um I've
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    had several conversations whether it's
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    lunches or dinners where you know we've
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    been talking about the state of the
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    crypto Market the ecosystem today we're
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    going to explore it all we're going to
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    talk about you know the Outlook we're
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    going to talk about the regulatory uh
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    landscape we're also going to talk about
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    the prospect for digital assets and also
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    we have a new president in the white
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    house and we will be talking about what
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    it could mean in Trump's second era now
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    just want to start with a broad question
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    for all of you and I think maybe start
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    with you Governor um how would you
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    describe the state of the cryptocurrency
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    ecosystem that we have right now um I
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    would say thank you very much I'd say
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    that the the ecosystem is actually
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    fairly
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    Dynamic but it's volatile it's
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    characterized by rapidly moving
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    technological uh
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    Innovation and uh it has a growing
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    interest from institutional investors
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    and adoption by institutional uh
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    investors and this calls for a
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    coordinated and comprehensive policy and
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    Regulatory
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    responsibility and um what you then face
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    is that you've got to accept that in
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    many instances Regulators are struggling
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    to come to grips with exactly what they
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    are having uh to regulate and so part of
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    it is going to be a learning Journey
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    between the players and The Regulators
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    that's great we will be talking about
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    regulation and it's great to have a
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    central Banker on the panel to talk
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    about that Jenny what about you so I'd
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    agree with most of those comments and
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    actually probably all those comments I
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    would just add what always surprises me
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    and at Franklin Templeton we obviously
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    our traditional Finance plus uh we've
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    been um pretty active in the crypto
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    space uh we have a tokenized money
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    market fund we're a node validator on 13
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    layer one and Layer Two
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    platforms I'm always surprised by how
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    big the crypto space is people who come
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    to these conferences names that you
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    would know that would come to these
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    conferences and then how on the
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    traditional asset management or even the
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    traditional Finance side that there's
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    literally blinders on to this massive
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    growth in this community and at some
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    point they have to come together and I
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    think the challenge is from a regulatory
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    standpoint is that it's really difficult
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    because it's very disruptive but it's
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    literally like two parallel universes
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    kind of running together running you
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    know along Ryan yeah in terms of the
  • 00:05:27
    state of the industry I'd say that it's
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    the dawn of a new day you have to
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    remember that the last four years in the
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    US it was a very hostile environment I
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    think the lack of clarity got weaponized
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    and it uh some people in the Government
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    tried to actually I think curtail or
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    kill the industry unlawfully and so with
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    a new Administration coming in I think
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    we have a path uh to get clear rules and
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    we're going to have hopefully
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    legislation passed through Congress
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    which will bring in a lot of new
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    investment and so crypto is really in
  • 00:05:55
    its infancy I think um it's incredibly
  • 00:05:57
    exciting I mean the ETFs have brought in
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    it's broken almost every record of new
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    ETFs of Bitcoin money flowing in uh
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    payments with stable coins are on a tear
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    they grew about 300% year-over-year 2024
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    they did about 30 trillion dollar in
  • 00:06:12
    payment volume uh with usdc as a major
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    player there for instance and um you
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    know I'd say about half of the Fortune
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    500 has some sort of pilot going in
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    crypto I mean the largest financial
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    service firms in the world every fintech
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    many of the Neo banks are all
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    integrating crypto so this is a
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    technology that's going to update the
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    Financial system globally make it faster
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    cheaper more efficient and it's the the
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    long-term impact of this is that it's
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    actually going to increase economic
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    freedom in the world if if you want we
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    can come back to that topic but to me
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    that's one of those important freedoms
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    right up there with speech uh which is
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    foundational to all prosperity in
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    society and if we can actually inject
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    Good Financial infrastructure to every
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    country of the world for anybody who has
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    a smartphone plug them into the global
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    economy I think it's going to lift
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    billions of people out of poverty and
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    it's going to be very transformational
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    over the next couple
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    decades that's great takes you to
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    Janelle who I think can uh comment on
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    that quite a bit yeah I think it's I
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    think it's growing I also still think
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    it's misunderstood I think that there's
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    not a lot of focus on the actual utility
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    the velocity of all of the assets like
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    what's actually happening on chain
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    that's really uh transformational and
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    getting to the points that Brian just
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    raised that's already happening today
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    and we don't talk about that as much and
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    so I think that um there's just so much
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    more to show uh out there and I think
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    that we're right now because of we're in
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    this area where I think regulation's
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    going to be more favorable in the US
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    we're going to hit this um opportunity
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    to really showcase all of the the real
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    work and to work more with traditional
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    Financial uh services like with Jenny's
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    company like Jenny's been like sort of
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    in in front of this but others are going
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    to move into this now in a much more
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    aggressive way so I'll just add one
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    thing if you guys have an interest in
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    regulation I would recommend Diana
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    henrique's book called taming the street
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    and it takes you through the formation
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    of the SEC and how they built the
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    framework of regulation in the United
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    States and what I like about the next
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    Administration is commissioner Atkins or
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    presumptive commissioner Atkins is
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    thinking about it along those lines so
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    he's going to talk to the Jenny's and
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    the Brians and he's going to work with
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    the community to get fair and propitious
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    regulation as opposed to what we've been
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    doing which is shooting in the dark and
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    I think you know I want to applaud Ryan
  • 00:08:25
    and coinbase because they literally went
  • 00:08:27
    to the SEC and said could you just tell
  • 00:08:29
    us what the rules are and of course
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    there was a lot of opacity to that and
  • 00:08:33
    of you want a court case where you had a
  • 00:08:36
    federal judge say hey guys you have to
  • 00:08:38
    tell these people what the rules are and
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    so we're going back to an old school
  • 00:08:42
    framework which I think will be very
  • 00:08:44
    beneficial for the industry that's great
  • 00:08:46
    I'll come back to regulation but one
  • 00:08:48
    question that pops up is you know
  • 00:08:50
    everyone's suddenly talking about crypto
  • 00:08:52
    a lot there's this excitement I know you
  • 00:08:54
    said that it's still very nent in terms
  • 00:08:56
    of the market what has shifted in the
  • 00:08:59
    last few months is this the Trump effect
  • 00:09:01
    what's happening why is everyone back
  • 00:09:04
    talking about crypto again yeah well the
  • 00:09:06
    underlying fundamentals are very good
  • 00:09:08
    too don't get me wrong I mean the
  • 00:09:09
    payment growth I mentioned the
  • 00:09:11
    ETFs um the adoption by Fortune 500 is
  • 00:09:14
    just it's great but I think the Trump
  • 00:09:16
    effect cannot be denied here um to have
  • 00:09:19
    the leader of the largest GDP country in
  • 00:09:22
    the world come out undeniably and say
  • 00:09:24
    that he wants to be the first crypto
  • 00:09:25
    president he wants the industry to be
  • 00:09:28
    built in America
  • 00:09:30
    um you know that he's going to direct
  • 00:09:32
    every agency of the US government to
  • 00:09:34
    work towards clear rules which enable
  • 00:09:36
    Innovation um this is unprecedented and
  • 00:09:39
    and you know it's hard to deny that that
  • 00:09:42
    effect has I mean we just yesterday saw
  • 00:09:44
    an all-time high price for Bitcoin at
  • 00:09:46
    109,000 I think that's largely due to
  • 00:09:48
    the inauguration Anthony did you want to
  • 00:09:50
    weigh in on
  • 00:09:52
    this Hey listen I mean you know we have
  • 00:09:54
    to call balls and Strikes it's probably
  • 00:09:56
    not a great European analogy but at at
  • 00:09:59
    at the end of the day uh I was there
  • 00:10:02
    when uh president Trump gave the speech
  • 00:10:04
    at the Bitcoin conference and it was
  • 00:10:07
    very very clear if he won the election
  • 00:10:09
    things were going to change in the
  • 00:10:11
    industry and if you were on the side of
  • 00:10:14
    the Democrats trying to support them I
  • 00:10:17
    was astonished at their reluctance to
  • 00:10:20
    understand what was actually going on
  • 00:10:21
    and if somebody does write a history of
  • 00:10:23
    this era it'll be the era where
  • 00:10:25
    Elizabeth Warren and Gary Gensler uh got
  • 00:10:29
    together for some unknown reason some of
  • 00:10:31
    us have some ideas about what they were
  • 00:10:33
    doing but they got together and they
  • 00:10:35
    literally helped the Democrats lose the
  • 00:10:38
    presidency the house and the Senate and
  • 00:10:40
    so it was very hard to communicate with
  • 00:10:42
    them at that time what they were doing
  • 00:10:44
    but what I will what I will say and I
  • 00:10:46
    have to respect Mr President Trump for
  • 00:10:48
    this this industry is here to stay and
  • 00:10:51
    there are properties in this industry
  • 00:10:52
    there's companies like Circle companies
  • 00:10:55
    like coinbase Franklin Templeton Stellar
  • 00:10:57
    that are going to advance the
  • 00:10:59
    technological innovation in the world of
  • 00:11:02
    transactions we're going to speed them
  • 00:11:03
    up going to make them cheaper and it's
  • 00:11:05
    going to unleash an amazing amount of
  • 00:11:07
    global Innovation and you got to give
  • 00:11:09
    the president his team under credit for
  • 00:11:12
    understanding it and I also think we
  • 00:11:14
    have put pressure on the Democrats now
  • 00:11:17
    uh the shered brown race in the United
  • 00:11:19
    States set alarm Bells off and so for
  • 00:11:22
    the Europeans in the room sherid Brown
  • 00:11:24
    was an 18-year veteran of uh the Senate
  • 00:11:27
    he was the head of the Senate Banking
  • 00:11:28
    Committee uh the crypto community
  • 00:11:30
    Through the political action committee
  • 00:11:31
    dumped $40 million into that race
  • 00:11:34
    knocked him into the woods and that's
  • 00:11:36
    very hard to do to dislodge an incumbent
  • 00:11:38
    of that level of power and I think it
  • 00:11:40
    sends a message to the Democrats as well
  • 00:11:42
    that they need to be bipartisan with
  • 00:11:44
    this so so I do I am very hopeful and
  • 00:11:46
    very pragmatically optimistic can I just
  • 00:11:49
    add too that for the last four years
  • 00:11:51
    there's been this Push by from the
  • 00:11:53
    crypto side to say we have to ignore we
  • 00:11:55
    have to move out of the United States we
  • 00:11:57
    have to not focus on what's happening in
  • 00:11:59
    the the US part of the challenge to that
  • 00:12:01
    is of course like the dollar is
  • 00:12:02
    something like that everybody wants in
  • 00:12:04
    in such high demand and so there wasn't
  • 00:12:06
    really an ability to ignore what was
  • 00:12:08
    happening in the United States even
  • 00:12:09
    though none of us liked the regulatory
  • 00:12:10
    environment and so I think that this is
  • 00:12:12
    just a signal that like the importance
  • 00:12:15
    is now clear and we need to be able to
  • 00:12:17
    create strong regulation that makes
  • 00:12:19
    sense for the industry and for
  • 00:12:21
    Innovation instead of trying to uh
  • 00:12:24
    whatever the reasons were for the the
  • 00:12:26
    the challenges that we had for the last
  • 00:12:27
    four years I I think that like to jump
  • 00:12:29
    in I was getting worried about where the
  • 00:12:31
    conversation was going and whether I
  • 00:12:34
    belong here as a central
  • 00:12:36
    Banker to you next
  • 00:12:39
    because it doesn't matter whether
  • 00:12:42
    regulation is for crypto whether it is
  • 00:12:45
    for banking whether it is for trade
  • 00:12:49
    whether it's for Consumer Protection
  • 00:12:51
    regulation has got to be clear clean and
  • 00:12:55
    such that everybody could could
  • 00:12:57
    understand so the notion that says that
  • 00:13:01
    regulation has got to be and clean to
  • 00:13:05
    facilitate just not on that is how you
  • 00:13:08
    should view all the regulation that's
  • 00:13:10
    the the first point the second point
  • 00:13:12
    that worried me
  • 00:13:13
    is the point that was made about how
  • 00:13:17
    crypto went to
  • 00:13:20
    fund to knock a
  • 00:13:23
    politically elected person out of office
  • 00:13:27
    so that they could get their regulation
  • 00:13:30
    through in that manner mark my words it
  • 00:13:34
    will happen that some other grouping
  • 00:13:37
    that wants to bring down crypto would do
  • 00:13:40
    the same uh the same thing and I do not
  • 00:13:42
    think that is how regulation should
  • 00:13:44
    evolve governments must set set rules
  • 00:13:48
    that are clear that are transparent and
  • 00:13:51
    cut across and not be geared around
  • 00:13:55
    political parties that in industry could
  • 00:13:59
    gr resources because they do not like a
  • 00:14:03
    particular approach of a particular
  • 00:14:05
    politician or political party and
  • 00:14:08
    therefore we are going to throw
  • 00:14:09
    resources to knock this one out or to
  • 00:14:12
    keep this one in place that for me is
  • 00:14:15
    regulatory capture what we actually need
  • 00:14:19
    is a society that
  • 00:14:22
    frames conversations about how policies
  • 00:14:26
    how regulations should evolve such
  • 00:14:29
    that regulations are clear for everyone
  • 00:14:33
    ac across industries that this is how
  • 00:14:36
    regulation is formed if regulation is
  • 00:14:38
    going to be
  • 00:14:40
    established through the power of money
  • 00:14:43
    then we have the problem okay we seem to
  • 00:14:46
    have forgotten where we had come with
  • 00:14:48
    the great financial the great financial
  • 00:14:51
    crisis and that said let be let's be
  • 00:14:54
    clear that it's important for society to
  • 00:14:59
    create an environment for Innovation to
  • 00:15:02
    take place that there is a Level Playing
  • 00:15:05
    Field that similar activities are
  • 00:15:09
    regulated in a similar in a similar
  • 00:15:13
    fashion and I think that for me is very
  • 00:15:16
    important that Society rises above above
  • 00:15:20
    that that's great governor and I think
  • 00:15:21
    got to respond to that yeah absolutely I
  • 00:15:23
    think regulatory uncertainty there that
  • 00:15:25
    still exists there's still lack of
  • 00:15:27
    clarity how do you respond to how do you
  • 00:15:29
    navigate um so let's go to Jenny first I
  • 00:15:30
    think she raised her hand then Brian so
  • 00:15:32
    I don't know how it works in South
  • 00:15:33
    Africa but if you just you know in the
  • 00:15:35
    US you take the Securities rules these
  • 00:15:37
    rules were
  • 00:15:39
    created as a reaction to the depression
  • 00:15:42
    and to the uh the stock market crash of
  • 00:15:45
    29 so they were created in the 1930s and
  • 00:15:47
    1940s the challenge is you need to be
  • 00:15:50
    able to go back to what the purpose of
  • 00:15:52
    the regulation was which was consumer
  • 00:15:54
    protection and acknowledge that the
  • 00:15:56
    technology is advancing so quickly that
  • 00:15:58
    you canol evolve regulation to meet the
  • 00:16:00
    technology that is a big challenge for
  • 00:16:02
    Regulators but we have to be able to do
  • 00:16:05
    that because it's going to take AI all
  • 00:16:07
    of these things are going to move so
  • 00:16:08
    quickly that we have to remember the
  • 00:16:10
    purpose of it and then adopt the rules
  • 00:16:14
    Ren yeah I think what we saw in this
  • 00:16:16
    last election in the US is that there is
  • 00:16:19
    a large group of pro- crypto voters and
  • 00:16:24
    there is no group of anti-crypto Voters
  • 00:16:27
    and so this was a political opportunity
  • 00:16:30
    Trump realized that um shared Brown
  • 00:16:33
    found that out the hard way which is if
  • 00:16:35
    you're going to be anti- crypto no one
  • 00:16:36
    no one's going to vote for you because
  • 00:16:38
    you're anti- crypto there's a lot of
  • 00:16:40
    people are going to vote for the other
  • 00:16:41
    party because they're Pro crypto so in
  • 00:16:44
    my mind this is democracy working uh
  • 00:16:47
    shered Brown you know I I go to DC about
  • 00:16:49
    once every quarter um and we tried to
  • 00:16:52
    meet with him many many times just to
  • 00:16:54
    understand his point of view even to
  • 00:16:55
    have a simple conversation he always
  • 00:16:57
    refused to meet with me uh um you know
  • 00:16:59
    these organiz these Grassroots
  • 00:17:01
    organizations like stand with crypto
  • 00:17:02
    they got to about two million Advocates
  • 00:17:05
    who raised their hand and said they
  • 00:17:06
    really care about crypto they felt like
  • 00:17:07
    their rights were being violated they
  • 00:17:09
    wanted to see clear rules in the US um
  • 00:17:12
    this is not regulatory capture by the
  • 00:17:13
    way it's just bipartisan legisl you know
  • 00:17:15
    you still have to get bipartisan
  • 00:17:16
    legislation passed so it's it standing
  • 00:17:18
    with crypto was a very bipartisan effort
  • 00:17:20
    but shered Brown refusing to engaged
  • 00:17:23
    with um the industry and to pass clear
  • 00:17:26
    rules got him voted out of office and so
  • 00:17:29
    the the crypto voter is real that's
  • 00:17:30
    democracy working just I mean really I
  • 00:17:34
    mean this this becomes I don't want the
  • 00:17:36
    discussion to be about the US yeah we'll
  • 00:17:39
    move on from that but yeah go I don't
  • 00:17:40
    want it to be about the US um I happen
  • 00:17:44
    to participate in global regulatory
  • 00:17:48
    standard
  • 00:17:50
    setting and I must say that it had
  • 00:17:53
    happened so many times that the US would
  • 00:17:56
    choose to opt out of what is being said
  • 00:17:59
    globally and I not don't have to I don't
  • 00:18:02
    want to bash the US what I want to say
  • 00:18:06
    is globally as Regulators we do set
  • 00:18:10
    standards and those standards we expect
  • 00:18:13
    to apply across jurisdictions for the
  • 00:18:16
    simple reason that coinbase needs to be
  • 00:18:20
    able to say when I am faced
  • 00:18:24
    with opening my business in South Africa
  • 00:18:28
    or in the UK or this there are certain
  • 00:18:31
    fundamental rules that I would know that
  • 00:18:34
    would not be violated because there is a
  • 00:18:37
    there is a global a global standard I
  • 00:18:40
    think that for me that is that is very
  • 00:18:44
    very important I do that doesn't exist
  • 00:18:48
    today in the regular um sorry um well
  • 00:18:51
    maybe maybe not but uh can I say that
  • 00:18:54
    the financial stability board that just
  • 00:18:56
    put in stuff on crypto
  • 00:18:59
    uh that we've been engaging engaging
  • 00:19:01
    with and that maybe that's how the US
  • 00:19:03
    works I just want to tell you that in
  • 00:19:05
    the case of South Africa the regulatory
  • 00:19:08
    approach is an approach that engages the
  • 00:19:11
    engages the sector understand what
  • 00:19:14
    products are emerging in the sector and
  • 00:19:17
    almost cocreate a regulatory framework
  • 00:19:21
    together with the industry and that for
  • 00:19:24
    me uh that for me is very uh is very
  • 00:19:27
    important because
  • 00:19:29
    why I think we'll we'll we'll move on
  • 00:19:31
    because we have we don't have a lot of
  • 00:19:32
    time and I want to get to everyone Jenny
  • 00:19:34
    I think you wanted to comment on that no
  • 00:19:35
    I was just going to say it big complaint
  • 00:19:38
    about any Global multinational Financial
  • 00:19:40
    Services firm is you don't have
  • 00:19:41
    regulatory consistency across the globe
  • 00:19:43
    so it doesn't exist can I just add that
  • 00:19:46
    Governor what you said is exactly what
  • 00:19:48
    we all wanted yeah we wanted rul making
  • 00:19:50
    we wanted there to be Clarity we wanted
  • 00:19:52
    that to happen that wasn't happening for
  • 00:19:53
    four years and I think that's the
  • 00:19:55
    challenge so I think that that it wasn't
  • 00:19:57
    about just trying to vote people out so
  • 00:19:59
    that we get the policies in it was
  • 00:20:00
    trying to get actually the thing that
  • 00:20:02
    you are the thing that you're
  • 00:20:04
    articulating that happens in South
  • 00:20:05
    Africa I thank you very much that the US
  • 00:20:08
    is complaining to the Imaging world to
  • 00:20:10
    provide leadership um Anthony do you
  • 00:20:12
    expect some of this to change in Trump I
  • 00:20:15
    me I'm just so glad we're not talking
  • 00:20:17
    about the Trump meme coin so stay stay
  • 00:20:20
    on it Governor keep talking about the
  • 00:20:22
    regulation that was next what was the
  • 00:20:24
    question I'm sorry I just thinking about
  • 00:20:25
    the
  • 00:20:26
    Trump my profits in the Trump
  • 00:20:29
    do you expect there is a lot of
  • 00:20:30
    regulatory uncertainty out there do you
  • 00:20:33
    expect more clarity to come through in
  • 00:20:35
    the second um era of trump I do and I
  • 00:20:38
    think that it will happen quickly
  • 00:20:40
    because there is a bipartisan commitment
  • 00:20:42
    now so if you talked to Senator Jill
  • 00:20:44
    brand or Tom emmer or Senator Schumer uh
  • 00:20:48
    I think there's a big wakeup call I
  • 00:20:50
    think Brian is right I think there are
  • 00:20:52
    no anti- crypto voters Elizabeth Warren
  • 00:20:54
    had on her campaign website on building
  • 00:20:58
    an anti anti- crypto Army do you
  • 00:21:00
    remember this me oh yeah and I was like
  • 00:21:02
    who's who's that okay and I think people
  • 00:21:04
    have now recognized and so when you talk
  • 00:21:07
    to these guys and I do and I spent a lot
  • 00:21:10
    of time in Washington still although can
  • 00:21:12
    only stay there for like 11 day period I
  • 00:21:14
    get thrown out but but they will tell
  • 00:21:16
    you okay that you're going to get the
  • 00:21:20
    legislation and you're going to get the
  • 00:21:21
    legislation in their minds before the
  • 00:21:23
    end of the Congressional term and
  • 00:21:25
    remember they want to campaign on it
  • 00:21:26
    yeah so this legislation's got to get
  • 00:21:28
    done by February of
  • 00:21:30
    2026 amazing let's talk about the meme
  • 00:21:32
    coin then um both Trump and Melania
  • 00:21:35
    launched their me mcoin Trump on it was
  • 00:21:37
    on Friday within 48 Hours market cap
  • 00:21:40
    went to $50 billion um I mean it's
  • 00:21:43
    bizarre to think that something that did
  • 00:21:45
    not exist exist 48 hours ago suddenly is
  • 00:21:48
    you know the same market cap as the
  • 00:21:49
    company stripe um what are we think what
  • 00:21:52
    are we looking at this what what does it
  • 00:21:53
    mean to you is this the start of some
  • 00:21:55
    sort of a bubble is it for real can I
  • 00:21:57
    just ask the governor are they Trading
  • 00:21:58
    the Trump mean coin in South Africa
  • 00:22:01
    or well I I I I I I I just baffled about
  • 00:22:06
    the the approach uh the approach taken
  • 00:22:09
    and uh here is my thing I don't think it
  • 00:22:12
    is for government or for Regulators to
  • 00:22:14
    tell Financial consumers which products
  • 00:22:17
    should come and which products should
  • 00:22:19
    not be used our duty as Regulators is to
  • 00:22:22
    make sure that the products that are
  • 00:22:23
    there are transparent they are fair to
  • 00:22:26
    Consumers and that consumers understand
  • 00:22:29
    the products that they are involved in
  • 00:22:30
    it's not for governments to decide which
  • 00:22:32
    product in in our space we don't
  • 00:22:34
    regulate we do not regulate product we
  • 00:22:36
    regulate activity we you can design your
  • 00:22:39
    product so if your product behaves like
  • 00:22:42
    a deposit we will regulate it like a
  • 00:22:44
    deposit it behaves like a lending
  • 00:22:46
    instrument we will behave we will
  • 00:22:48
    regulate it like a lending instrument if
  • 00:22:50
    it behaves like a payment uh a product
  • 00:22:53
    we will regulate it like a payment
  • 00:22:54
    product it's not for governments to
  • 00:22:56
    decide to even campaign and says this
  • 00:22:59
    product and not this product I don't
  • 00:23:01
    think that that is the space that
  • 00:23:02
    regulation should be in I think we need
  • 00:23:03
    more financial literacy then but going
  • 00:23:05
    back to the mem coin what is your
  • 00:23:07
    outlook on this so I'll just say a
  • 00:23:09
    couple couple of quick things number one
  • 00:23:11
    when you vote for Donald Trump you get
  • 00:23:13
    the whole thing okay so don't don't
  • 00:23:16
    forget that so he's Pro crypto but then
  • 00:23:19
    you're going to get everything that's
  • 00:23:20
    associated with Donald Trump and so you
  • 00:23:22
    know having a trump meme coin could
  • 00:23:24
    alarm some people and other people that
  • 00:23:27
    understand his personality are actually
  • 00:23:29
    not alarmed and they they see it as part
  • 00:23:31
    of getting the whole enchilada of Donald
  • 00:23:33
    Trump and so my only issue with it and I
  • 00:23:37
    asked this question at another event
  • 00:23:38
    earlier I said who thinks this hurts the
  • 00:23:40
    industry and who thinks it helps it and
  • 00:23:42
    it was sort of 9010 that it hurts the
  • 00:23:44
    industry and I'll just make this
  • 00:23:45
    statement the reason I believe it hurts
  • 00:23:47
    the industry is that you have older
  • 00:23:49
    people in politics older people in
  • 00:23:52
    policy making that still do not
  • 00:23:54
    understand the industry like this room
  • 00:23:56
    to me makes me very bullish because it's
  • 00:23:58
    not full if this room was full I'd start
  • 00:24:01
    to get concerned because there's still
  • 00:24:02
    people here in Davos that are not
  • 00:24:05
    focused on what we're doing in this
  • 00:24:07
    industry and I want the people who are
  • 00:24:09
    getting introduced to the industry to
  • 00:24:12
    meet Brian Armstrong okay or denell or
  • 00:24:15
    Jenny I don't want them to meet the
  • 00:24:17
    ideas behind the Trump meme coin and the
  • 00:24:20
    potential negative things that are
  • 00:24:22
    associated with the Trump mecoin I think
  • 00:24:24
    I just think it's going to slow down
  • 00:24:26
    some people in the regulatory process
  • 00:24:29
    Jenny what do you think it hurts the
  • 00:24:30
    industry or it
  • 00:24:33
    helps don't answer that question such a
  • 00:24:36
    good response that Anthony G I have
  • 00:24:38
    nothing to add yeah don't answer that
  • 00:24:40
    question Jen you're doing great in
  • 00:24:42
    Washington Jen you don't want to
  • 00:24:45
    answer um I I don't have too much to add
  • 00:24:48
    I think um you know you have to be a
  • 00:24:50
    little bit careful in in when looking at
  • 00:24:52
    new Innovations because often times they
  • 00:24:54
    start off looking like a toy right like
  • 00:24:56
    if you remember the very early internet
  • 00:24:57
    there was a lot of blinking gifts and
  • 00:24:59
    silly cat photos and it turned out to be
  • 00:25:02
    like you know 20% of GDP Global GDP is
  • 00:25:04
    now e-commerce right so um you know
  • 00:25:07
    memes memes are you could think of them
  • 00:25:10
    like Collectibles like you know baseball
  • 00:25:12
    cards or you could think of them like
  • 00:25:13
    artwork um I think people should be able
  • 00:25:15
    to create artwork and put it out there
  • 00:25:17
    Trump happens to be the most famous
  • 00:25:18
    person in the world right now so it's
  • 00:25:20
    probably why it rocketed up so quickly
  • 00:25:22
    um so I don't know exactly how this will
  • 00:25:24
    play out I mean if you memes memes are
  • 00:25:26
    actually like kind of the current on the
  • 00:25:28
    internet of how a lot of ideas can
  • 00:25:31
    concisely be communicated in a meme and
  • 00:25:33
    humor is a way for people to um push
  • 00:25:35
    against ideas that you know are no
  • 00:25:38
    longer popular and sort of to to make
  • 00:25:40
    fun of them a little bit so I actually
  • 00:25:42
    think there could be a version of meme
  • 00:25:43
    coins in the future where people are are
  • 00:25:45
    you know memes are going viral on the
  • 00:25:46
    internet people aren't making money on
  • 00:25:47
    it and it's an interesting idea anyway
  • 00:25:49
    from a coinbase point of view we don't
  • 00:25:51
    we don't try to recommend any assets to
  • 00:25:53
    anybody we just have our listing
  • 00:25:54
    standards and to your point um anybody
  • 00:25:57
    who meets the minimum listing stand
  • 00:25:58
    standards we let the market decide at
  • 00:25:59
    that point did you want to comment on
  • 00:26:02
    that Governor I agree oh I agree that he
  • 00:26:04
    agrees with
  • 00:26:06
    me okay all right let's talk a little
  • 00:26:09
    bit about Jenny I'm going to come to you
  • 00:26:10
    because I think we've been talking about
  • 00:26:12
    digital assets meme coins rise of crypto
  • 00:26:15
    how are traditional financial
  • 00:26:16
    institutions like you know Franklin
  • 00:26:18
    Templeton and likes of that how are you
  • 00:26:20
    adapting to this sort of Rise you know I
  • 00:26:23
    think we I think you have institutions
  • 00:26:25
    falling into two categories so on the
  • 00:26:27
    one side and you got remember like if
  • 00:26:29
    you think about what this this is just a
  • 00:26:31
    simple technology what this technology
  • 00:26:33
    does is it has a source of Truth it uh
  • 00:26:37
    has ability to execute smart contracts
  • 00:26:39
    so things that we've written into a
  • 00:26:40
    document somebody's got to go check and
  • 00:26:42
    go settle and do this and that can get
  • 00:26:44
    programmed in and has a way to pay that
  • 00:26:47
    actually is a massive threat to huge
  • 00:26:50
    financial institutions who act as those
  • 00:26:53
    roles and so what you have is a lot of
  • 00:26:56
    sort of the the traditional um you have
  • 00:26:58
    some traditional firms who are mly
  • 00:27:00
    trying to figure out how to leverage the
  • 00:27:01
    technology to do what they do today I'll
  • 00:27:04
    give you an example dtcc settles uh
  • 00:27:06
    transaction Securities they're working
  • 00:27:09
    on just a uh using blockchain as the
  • 00:27:11
    source of Truth and settlement they she
  • 00:27:14
    kind of be thinking about Atomic
  • 00:27:15
    settlement where you the moment the
  • 00:27:17
    trade happens the dollars that the smart
  • 00:27:19
    contract executes and the dollars uh
  • 00:27:22
    transact uh because that's actually
  • 00:27:25
    what's going to happen and then I think
  • 00:27:26
    you have institutions and I think
  • 00:27:28
    hopefully this is what we're doing at
  • 00:27:29
    Frankin temp is we're trying to sit
  • 00:27:30
    there and say okay with this technology
  • 00:27:33
    imagine where you do have Atomic
  • 00:27:35
    settlement on
  • 00:27:37
    transactions um where you don't need to
  • 00:27:41
    validate oftentimes a bank is in between
  • 00:27:44
    to validate the two parties I know that
  • 00:27:47
    when I trade with JP Morgan that they're
  • 00:27:50
    making sure that whoever's on the other
  • 00:27:51
    side is going to pay me they're standing
  • 00:27:53
    in for that if it settles automatically
  • 00:27:56
    you don't need that validation so you
  • 00:27:58
    parties who are thinking about they're
  • 00:27:59
    thinking about what does atomic
  • 00:28:00
    settlement mean to my business model in
  • 00:28:02
    our case we built on the Stellar
  • 00:28:04
    blockchain our money market fund where
  • 00:28:06
    we have the recordkeeping and we're the
  • 00:28:08
    only ones who are actually running a
  • 00:28:10
    public uh transactions on blockchain
  • 00:28:13
    there's other shadowing it we're
  • 00:28:14
    actually settling them on the chain and
  • 00:28:17
    so over time as you can start to have
  • 00:28:20
    people making payments leveraging this
  • 00:28:22
    yield coin uh then and maybe you hold it
  • 00:28:26
    for five hours shouldn't you get five
  • 00:28:27
    hours worth the yield like that's that's
  • 00:28:29
    a CH like that's a big technical
  • 00:28:31
    challenge but actually blockchain makes
  • 00:28:33
    that possible so we're thinking through
  • 00:28:35
    okay well what will that mean and how
  • 00:28:36
    does that evolve and when it's peer-to
  • 00:28:38
    beer transactions how does that evolve
  • 00:28:41
    um in the asset management industry
  • 00:28:43
    costs have actually gone up in I know
  • 00:28:45
    like the last 10 years 80% and revenues
  • 00:28:48
    have come down 15% so from an operating
  • 00:28:50
    margin that's not a great Trend we have
  • 00:28:53
    to be thinking about how do we leverage
  • 00:28:55
    this in our environment I think ETFs why
  • 00:28:57
    should you buy an ETF today and have had
  • 00:29:00
    the pricing lag by two hours right an
  • 00:29:02
    ETF actually only prices twice a day
  • 00:29:04
    even though it transacts all day why
  • 00:29:06
    shouldn't It Go 24 hours why shouldn't
  • 00:29:08
    the smart contract tell you exactly what
  • 00:29:10
    those underlying Holdings are worth at
  • 00:29:12
    the time that you do a transaction and
  • 00:29:14
    so thinking through I think there are
  • 00:29:15
    firms who actually trying to think
  • 00:29:17
    through what does this mean and how do I
  • 00:29:19
    fit myself into this model that's great
  • 00:29:21
    and Delle we I mean Stella does a lot of
  • 00:29:23
    work with this um we talked about it in
  • 00:29:25
    the previous panel as well what are the
  • 00:29:27
    real world impact that you're seeing
  • 00:29:29
    with blockchain and you know what what
  • 00:29:31
    Jenny was talking about earlier well one
  • 00:29:33
    of the thing I mean what Jenny's doing
  • 00:29:34
    and what Franklin tumon has been doing
  • 00:29:36
    since 2019 which is insane to me because
  • 00:29:38
    they were the first ones to the market
  • 00:29:39
    with respect to this and they were the
  • 00:29:40
    first ones who went to the SEC and by
  • 00:29:42
    the way that part of the SEC was
  • 00:29:43
    actually working um in the United States
  • 00:29:45
    to actually get these things approved um
  • 00:29:48
    but the the fact that it is taking these
  • 00:29:50
    assets and eventually hopefully I would
  • 00:29:52
    love the idea to get these to yield
  • 00:29:54
    bearing assets to be able to be
  • 00:29:55
    leveraged in payments because frankly
  • 00:29:57
    that's what everybody wants you want to
  • 00:29:58
    be able to get interest on your money
  • 00:30:00
    even when you're it's just sitting there
  • 00:30:01
    for a few minutes um and so I think that
  • 00:30:03
    that's a really really important piece
  • 00:30:04
    of it what we see so much on Stellar
  • 00:30:07
    when I talked about velocity instead of
  • 00:30:08
    volume there's so much focus on volume
  • 00:30:10
    in this industry and how much volume is
  • 00:30:11
    on on on the chain with respect to this
  • 00:30:13
    asset but really what the point of this
  • 00:30:16
    uh this technology is is that you can
  • 00:30:18
    actually move assets extremely quickly
  • 00:30:21
    peer toer and get them Without Borders
  • 00:30:24
    all over the world so it should be about
  • 00:30:26
    velocity and use and that's what we see
  • 00:30:29
    so much on Stellar is we see people
  • 00:30:30
    building all over the world and they can
  • 00:30:32
    actually transact in you know there's
  • 00:30:34
    this one great story about this company
  • 00:30:36
    decaf who builds a wallet on Stellar
  • 00:30:38
    where they're actually leveraging the
  • 00:30:40
    the usdc in um Columbia San Francisco
  • 00:30:42
    Columbia so that they can actually pay
  • 00:30:45
    gig workers there these people now take
  • 00:30:47
    the money they can move it offchain
  • 00:30:48
    through Money Gram they get the the
  • 00:30:50
    their local currency and they spend it
  • 00:30:52
    in their small town of San Francisco and
  • 00:30:55
    so therefore they're able to create we
  • 00:30:57
    call it onchain effect so they get to be
  • 00:30:58
    able to take the money it gets used very
  • 00:31:01
    quickly it gets offchain very quickly
  • 00:31:02
    but then it's used locally so it
  • 00:31:04
    actually improves the local economy
  • 00:31:06
    that's the value of blockchain that's
  • 00:31:08
    what blockchain does so beautifully and
  • 00:31:10
    we're seeing this happen all over the
  • 00:31:11
    world and we're seeing you know just
  • 00:31:12
    think about the unhcr they're delivering
  • 00:31:14
    Aid into Ukraine into Argentina
  • 00:31:16
    leveraging the Stellar Network and for
  • 00:31:18
    them even though it's only been $5
  • 00:31:20
    million that they've actually sent
  • 00:31:22
    through the blockchain they've saved $12
  • 00:31:24
    million using blockchain technology
  • 00:31:26
    versus all of their cash based assist
  • 00:31:27
    assistance that's the value of
  • 00:31:29
    blockchain also the end user receives it
  • 00:31:31
    in less than three minutes they get the
  • 00:31:33
    they have to do the wallet they they
  • 00:31:34
    sign up for the wallet they register but
  • 00:31:36
    they receive the aid in their wallet in
  • 00:31:38
    less than three minutes that's crazy but
  • 00:31:40
    that's what blockchain does and this is
  • 00:31:41
    the part that we don't talk about and
  • 00:31:43
    haven't talked about for so long because
  • 00:31:44
    there's been so much negative attention
  • 00:31:45
    with respect to this regulation not just
  • 00:31:47
    in the US by the way outside the US but
  • 00:31:49
    these are the kinds of things that help
  • 00:31:51
    everyone in every country and this is
  • 00:31:53
    what we want to see more of that's great
  • 00:31:55
    well on that note I think I'm going to
  • 00:31:57
    open it up to question question and
  • 00:31:58
    answers there are any questions please
  • 00:31:59
    also introduce yourself keep your
  • 00:32:01
    questions brief I think the gentleman at
  • 00:32:03
    the
  • 00:32:05
    back got a mic coming your oh I'm J kazm
  • 00:32:08
    from Switzerland the thing uh about
  • 00:32:11
    blockchain is especially crypto is that
  • 00:32:13
    people don't understand that people use
  • 00:32:16
    it more to speculate than to to
  • 00:32:18
    understand what they what crypto does
  • 00:32:21
    and I have a question for Danielle a
  • 00:32:23
    couple of years ago last year actually
  • 00:32:25
    we talked about uh talk to conization
  • 00:32:29
    and uh at that point tokenization was
  • 00:32:31
    not supposed to be regularized we
  • 00:32:34
    realized that is it still the case today
  • 00:32:37
    what wasn't supposed to be tokenization
  • 00:32:40
    it's that's what Jenny's doing like
  • 00:32:42
    securi like we're seeing tokenization
  • 00:32:44
    we're the Stellar is the second chain
  • 00:32:46
    second largest chain with respect to
  • 00:32:47
    asset tokenization we see it all over
  • 00:32:49
    but it doesn't need government
  • 00:32:51
    regularization oh well it depends on
  • 00:32:53
    whether it's a security yeah yeah I mean
  • 00:32:55
    I think that that's part of the question
  • 00:32:57
    part of the the issue that we've been
  • 00:32:58
    fighting for so long in the US to get is
  • 00:33:00
    regulatory framework around uh digital
  • 00:33:02
    assets and just think about like uh the
  • 00:33:05
    the dollar backed assets or the eurobed
  • 00:33:06
    assets there we actually have regulation
  • 00:33:08
    outside of the United States on it we
  • 00:33:10
    don't have it in the US we're hoping to
  • 00:33:11
    get that in the next six months okay
  • 00:33:13
    thank you I think the gentleman here are
  • 00:33:15
    in the
  • 00:33:20
    front good afternoon um Gareth jenkinson
  • 00:33:22
    here I'm the managing editor at coin
  • 00:33:24
    Telegraph um I think I'll I'll I'll
  • 00:33:25
    throw this at you Brian because there
  • 00:33:27
    was no mention of a Bitcoin strategic
  • 00:33:29
    Reserve this is one of the promises that
  • 00:33:31
    Trump kind of made uh last year at
  • 00:33:33
    Bitcoin Nashville um obviously we saw
  • 00:33:35
    the Trump mcoin come out this weekend in
  • 00:33:38
    some way shape or form this undermined
  • 00:33:40
    the work that was being done to put
  • 00:33:42
    forward a Bitcoin strategic Reserve do
  • 00:33:45
    you do you share that opinion and do you
  • 00:33:47
    think that this is still very much on
  • 00:33:48
    the cards for for the US going forward
  • 00:33:50
    in the next year thank you yeah I don't
  • 00:33:53
    think it undermined anything with the
  • 00:33:54
    Str strategic Bitcoin Reserve that
  • 00:33:56
    effort is still alive and well
  • 00:33:58
    Cynthia lumus in the senate in the US is
  • 00:34:00
    really pushing that idea and I think it
  • 00:34:02
    would be a good idea for anybody who's
  • 00:34:03
    not familiar with it um you know there
  • 00:34:06
    is a proposal for the US government to
  • 00:34:08
    start to hold Bitcoin the US government
  • 00:34:10
    like many countries they hold reserves
  • 00:34:12
    in a variety of different assets uh gold
  • 00:34:14
    oil rare rare minerals like
  • 00:34:17
    Palladium um and I think there they have
  • 00:34:19
    like maybe 27 different reserves and so
  • 00:34:22
    um you know many governments hold hold
  • 00:34:25
    gold I think they should start to hold
  • 00:34:27
    Bitcoin because Bitcoin is essentially
  • 00:34:29
    the new gold standard um it's I think a
  • 00:34:32
    very core PRC core way that you know you
  • 00:34:34
    should hold assets and hold value over
  • 00:34:36
    time and it's still nent enough where it
  • 00:34:38
    has some volatility it's getting less
  • 00:34:40
    and less over time but it still has a
  • 00:34:41
    lot of upside potential so I think if
  • 00:34:44
    the US gets that legislation approved
  • 00:34:46
    which I hope they do uh the rest of the
  • 00:34:48
    G20 will follow and that could be a huge
  • 00:34:49
    driver of Bitcoin uh price appreciation
  • 00:34:52
    governor do you want to comment on that
  • 00:34:54
    do you see South Africa going towards a
  • 00:34:55
    Bitcoin strategic Reserve um
  • 00:34:59
    now I can't quite say I want to
  • 00:35:01
    distinguish between the technology that
  • 00:35:05
    under underpins this assets and the
  • 00:35:08
    assets themselves a regulator we do not
  • 00:35:11
    regulate
  • 00:35:13
    technology we regulate activity so we
  • 00:35:16
    are technology agnostic right so so
  • 00:35:19
    that's why I had said it's not for
  • 00:35:20
    governments to decide which assets or
  • 00:35:23
    which products the consumer should be
  • 00:35:24
    using so the technology is uh very
  • 00:35:27
    useful
  • 00:35:28
    you the
  • 00:35:30
    idea we we we we we piloted a uh a
  • 00:35:35
    blockchain technology in our payment
  • 00:35:38
    payment space uh with finality in
  • 00:35:42
    central bank money and we were able to
  • 00:35:45
    settle transactions that we settle in a
  • 00:35:48
    whole
  • 00:35:49
    day in 46 seconds 46 minutes we were
  • 00:35:53
    able to do that so the Technologies
  • 00:35:55
    could be useful and you we would look we
  • 00:35:58
    would look at that and I don't think
  • 00:36:00
    that that is a problem I would have a
  • 00:36:02
    significant problem with a Lobby that
  • 00:36:05
    says governments should hold this asset
  • 00:36:08
    or hold that asset without what the
  • 00:36:11
    Strategic intent of government is
  • 00:36:14
    because you see there is a history to
  • 00:36:16
    Gold it was there was once a gold
  • 00:36:18
    standard currencies were packed to
  • 00:36:21
    Gold but if we now say that okay
  • 00:36:24
    Bitcoins okay what about Platinum what
  • 00:36:27
    about
  • 00:36:29
    coal why don't we hold strategic beef
  • 00:36:32
    reserves or Martin reserves or apple
  • 00:36:36
    reserves why
  • 00:36:38
    Bitcoin so so so so it's a public policy
  • 00:36:42
    issue that we have got to be engaged in
  • 00:36:46
    and I would caution against the move
  • 00:36:49
    then that would say there is an industry
  • 00:36:51
    with a particular interest in a
  • 00:36:53
    particular product and we would like to
  • 00:36:55
    impose it on society and say Society
  • 00:36:58
    must hold this as a reserve I would have
  • 00:36:59
    a fundamental problem with it so why why
  • 00:37:01
    Bitcoin reserve and not beef reserves
  • 00:37:03
    and mutton reserves anyone wants to
  • 00:37:05
    comment on
  • 00:37:06
    that well I I think that um you know if
  • 00:37:09
    you like Neil Ferguson is here he has a
  • 00:37:12
    great book on the ascent of money and
  • 00:37:13
    he's historian and so many things have
  • 00:37:15
    been used as money over the years um I
  • 00:37:18
    think it's pretty you know this is still
  • 00:37:20
    maybe a new idea um but I think it's
  • 00:37:23
    clear at this point that you know
  • 00:37:25
    Bitcoin is a better form of money than
  • 00:37:26
    gold it is is provably scarce just like
  • 00:37:29
    gold but it's more portable and
  • 00:37:31
    divisible um so you can actually use it
  • 00:37:33
    has higher utility I would say um and it
  • 00:37:36
    was the best performing asset of the
  • 00:37:38
    last 10 years and so uh for store value
  • 00:37:42
    I think it's going to be important for
  • 00:37:43
    governments to hold this over time it
  • 00:37:45
    may not it might start with being 1% of
  • 00:37:47
    their reserves but I think over time
  • 00:37:49
    it'll it'll come to be equal to or
  • 00:37:51
    greater than gold reserves okay great
  • 00:37:53
    well let's go to the next question let's
  • 00:37:54
    go to the lady over there
  • 00:37:58
    thank you um this question might sound
  • 00:38:00
    very naive um I'm not from this space my
  • 00:38:03
    question is who is really losing from
  • 00:38:06
    the lack of Regulation from what I hear
  • 00:38:09
    the industry is flourishing and defi is
  • 00:38:12
    there and more and more startups are
  • 00:38:15
    working in the space and more
  • 00:38:16
    tokenization and blockchains so's who's
  • 00:38:19
    really losing J well I think the risk is
  • 00:38:22
    you have a massive industry that is um H
  • 00:38:26
    has both good
  • 00:38:28
    traditional uh assets Investments and
  • 00:38:32
    then also some that probably aren't and
  • 00:38:35
    there's no regulatory oversight or
  • 00:38:37
    overview now you can argue well maybe
  • 00:38:39
    regulation is not necessarily a good
  • 00:38:41
    thing but if you assume that
  • 00:38:43
    constructive regulation is good you
  • 00:38:45
    would actually like constructive
  • 00:38:47
    regulation in the space the challenge is
  • 00:38:49
    there's a lot of innovation having in
  • 00:38:50
    the space and it's hard for regulation
  • 00:38:53
    to keep up with the Innovation but I do
  • 00:38:54
    think that um there's a risk and what
  • 00:38:56
    ultimately happens like take our money
  • 00:38:59
    market fund there are massive stable
  • 00:39:01
    coins out there that are completely
  • 00:39:03
    unregulated that transact all over the
  • 00:39:05
    world oh by the way the the owners of
  • 00:39:08
    the stable coin collect all the yield to
  • 00:39:11
    themselves none of that goes out to The
  • 00:39:13
    participants the moment the yield is
  • 00:39:15
    paid out to the participants that
  • 00:39:17
    becomes a security and then gets
  • 00:39:18
    regulated and therefore there's been no
  • 00:39:20
    growth so IID actually argue that
  • 00:39:22
    billions and billions of dollars have
  • 00:39:24
    been robbed for individuals by not
  • 00:39:27
    getting the yield on their own money I
  • 00:39:29
    mean this is a welcome development for
  • 00:39:31
    the sector to be calling for for
  • 00:39:34
    regulation and I'm just so sorry that
  • 00:39:36
    you had these frustrations where you
  • 00:39:38
    Tred to engage regulators and said we
  • 00:39:40
    need regulation and they wouldn't come
  • 00:39:43
    uh with with regulation I I think we
  • 00:39:46
    must also
  • 00:39:47
    spare The Regulators because sometimes
  • 00:39:50
    they must understand what they have to
  • 00:39:52
    regulate and if you do not take them
  • 00:39:54
    along you might have a problem I think
  • 00:39:56
    that's right and I think that uh I think
  • 00:39:58
    this industry has actually done a pretty
  • 00:39:59
    good job of trying to take him along but
  • 00:40:00
    to get to your another point on your
  • 00:40:02
    question what really loses when you
  • 00:40:04
    don't have regulatory Clarity
  • 00:40:06
    particularly when The Regulators were
  • 00:40:07
    very hostile um some of them very
  • 00:40:09
    hostile to at least in the US with to
  • 00:40:11
    the uh to the technology is the
  • 00:40:13
    technology loses and what we want to see
  • 00:40:16
    is the technology and Innovation
  • 00:40:17
    flourish and grow and so yes you now see
  • 00:40:19
    lots of folks come into it that wasn't
  • 00:40:21
    always the case I mean I this was I
  • 00:40:23
    think everybody here can say that there
  • 00:40:25
    was this big push to say ignore the us
  • 00:40:28
    and let's move outside the US and let's
  • 00:40:29
    just forget like what's happening here
  • 00:40:31
    and you can't ignore the us but there
  • 00:40:33
    was a very a big frustration so the
  • 00:40:35
    technology is the thing and we want
  • 00:40:36
    Innovation to continue globally not just
  • 00:40:39
    in the US we want it to continue
  • 00:40:40
    globally and there's always going to be
  • 00:40:41
    challenges managing the different
  • 00:40:42
    regulatory environments but it should
  • 00:40:44
    never be about the tech stack the tech
  • 00:40:46
    stack shouldn't be the focus let's go to
  • 00:40:48
    the next question I think the gentleman
  • 00:40:50
    over there and then I'll come to the
  • 00:40:51
    side if you have any questions here hi
  • 00:40:54
    uh thanks for the panel my name is yat
  • 00:40:55
    I'm chairman co-founder V br very active
  • 00:40:58
    in the crypto space I guess I have two
  • 00:40:59
    part questions for the panel the first
  • 00:41:01
    one is when do you think we'll hit real
  • 00:41:02
    Mass adoption we have about half a
  • 00:41:03
    billion users owning crypto but there's
  • 00:41:05
    about basically 8 billion people in the
  • 00:41:07
    world so we still got a way to go and
  • 00:41:09
    then the second one as an industry what
  • 00:41:10
    do you think we can do as an industry so
  • 00:41:12
    we can build a kind of confidence that
  • 00:41:14
    we can actually on board the billions
  • 00:41:16
    and when do you think this will happen
  • 00:41:17
    thank you that's a great question so
  • 00:41:18
    let's talk about Mass adoption um Jenny
  • 00:41:21
    do you want to start well I actually
  • 00:41:23
    think one of the challenges today is um
  • 00:41:27
    it actually if you're let's say you're
  • 00:41:29
    uh you're managing clients accounts um
  • 00:41:33
    and uh you have you're holding
  • 00:41:36
    Securities ETFs mutual funds whatever it
  • 00:41:38
    is unfortunately you have to build a
  • 00:41:40
    whole separate infrastructure to be you
  • 00:41:42
    know wallet by the way those Securities
  • 00:41:44
    don't fit in the wallet you need the
  • 00:41:46
    tokenization and unless your clients are
  • 00:41:48
    breaking down the door frankly they're
  • 00:41:51
    open it up at coinbase and they're sort
  • 00:41:53
    of keeping two accounts um and so I
  • 00:41:55
    think actually this lack of wallet has
  • 00:41:57
    been uh one of the challenges it hasn't
  • 00:42:00
    been integrated on the platforms across
  • 00:42:02
    the board and there hasn't been enough
  • 00:42:03
    incentive to do it did anyone else want
  • 00:42:06
    to comment on that yeah I can add it in
  • 00:42:07
    I so first of all I think getting to
  • 00:42:09
    half a billion users is exceptional and
  • 00:42:12
    we should celebrate that over the last
  • 00:42:13
    10 years so I feel really good about the
  • 00:42:15
    adoption curve is looking similar to
  • 00:42:16
    early days of internet and I think it'll
  • 00:42:18
    it'll get to half the world you know in
  • 00:42:20
    10 10 years something like that 1015 I
  • 00:42:22
    don't know um the key pieces to get that
  • 00:42:25
    adoption in my mind um so one is that
  • 00:42:29
    you know we need to make sure that like
  • 00:42:31
    traditional financial services are
  • 00:42:32
    integrated with this so we had we saw
  • 00:42:34
    the ETFs get approved and they were the
  • 00:42:35
    fastest growing ETFs of all time
  • 00:42:37
    breaking every record and so that
  • 00:42:39
    brought in a lot of institutional money
  • 00:42:41
    um we also need to get it working in
  • 00:42:43
    Emerging Markets um and so there's great
  • 00:42:46
    work you know that the Stellar
  • 00:42:47
    Foundation is doing and um and a lot of
  • 00:42:49
    self- custodial wallets are becoming
  • 00:42:51
    popular there I think Nigeria is
  • 00:42:52
    actually like I think the most popular
  • 00:42:54
    per capita country uh for crypto
  • 00:42:56
    adoption and so we'll see I think you
  • 00:42:59
    know that that's one way to get to a
  • 00:43:00
    billion is is really the more Emerging
  • 00:43:03
    Markets you know the regulatory Clarity
  • 00:43:05
    will help um and I think one last one I
  • 00:43:08
    would say is that we need to make crypto
  • 00:43:10
    just easier to use right uh it's still a
  • 00:43:12
    little too complicated I mean there's
  • 00:43:13
    these addresses that they don't look
  • 00:43:16
    like human readable they look like
  • 00:43:17
    random strings of you number numbers and
  • 00:43:19
    letters um that's being replaced by the
  • 00:43:22
    like an ethereum name system as an
  • 00:43:24
    example so you can you send it to human
  • 00:43:25
    readable names
  • 00:43:28
    um the whole concept of private keys and
  • 00:43:30
    like potentially losing your money like
  • 00:43:32
    this is a non-starter to get to billions
  • 00:43:33
    of people I think So eventually I think
  • 00:43:36
    we're going to have people using crypto
  • 00:43:37
    they don't even really know it's crypto
  • 00:43:38
    underneath they just they're just trying
  • 00:43:40
    to send money earn a living get a loan
  • 00:43:42
    for their business th those are the
  • 00:43:43
    things that they really want to get done
  • 00:43:45
    and use all these this new category of
  • 00:43:46
    applications that are getting built onl
  • 00:43:48
    the web 3 apps as well so most people
  • 00:43:51
    don't understand how electricity works
  • 00:43:52
    but they can flip on a light switch I
  • 00:43:54
    think that's we need to make it that
  • 00:43:55
    simple and Anthony do you think all of
  • 00:43:57
    this will help in then building
  • 00:43:58
    confidence well you know the the one
  • 00:44:00
    thing I would add is the stable coin
  • 00:44:02
    legislation because I I really do think
  • 00:44:05
    if we get regulatory Clarity on stable
  • 00:44:08
    coins in the us and our Central Bank
  • 00:44:12
    actually accepts that legislation it
  • 00:44:14
    will permeate into the other Banks and I
  • 00:44:16
    think that will make it a lot easier I
  • 00:44:18
    think that uncertainty about that
  • 00:44:20
    fungibility that dollar fungibility I
  • 00:44:23
    think is caused a little bit of a
  • 00:44:25
    Slowdown I would just point out
  • 00:44:27
    good stable coin legislation is good for
  • 00:44:30
    the US dollar if you look at things like
  • 00:44:31
    tether or Circle they own tons of us
  • 00:44:35
    treasuries uh which is good for the USI
  • 00:44:37
    I think tether I think I read that they
  • 00:44:39
    own more us treasuries than Germany or
  • 00:44:41
    Japan and so I just want you to think
  • 00:44:43
    about it this way we we we we got the
  • 00:44:45
    morse code we were sending messages at
  • 00:44:48
    the speed of light but we were moving
  • 00:44:50
    the money by stage coach and horses okay
  • 00:44:53
    we now can move the money at the speed
  • 00:44:55
    of light and so let's get the
  • 00:44:57
    legislation right to match the
  • 00:44:59
    innovation of the technology can I just
  • 00:45:02
    add one more thing on that I think um
  • 00:45:03
    privacy is also another thing we need to
  • 00:45:05
    get to the place where um we were sort
  • 00:45:08
    of stalled in doing any work on privacy
  • 00:45:10
    because of concerns around tornado cash
  • 00:45:12
    and all the issues that came up we need
  • 00:45:13
    to get to the place where we're actually
  • 00:45:15
    focusing on that ease of use the ux
  • 00:45:17
    design but also bringing privacy into it
  • 00:45:19
    and then it becomes easy for Mass
  • 00:45:21
    adoption Brian we don't have a lot of
  • 00:45:24
    time just one minute left a final
  • 00:45:25
    question here for the panel start with
  • 00:45:27
    you 20 seconds each we've talked about
  • 00:45:29
    talked a lot about Outlook Trump
  • 00:45:31
    everything else if we were to revisit
  • 00:45:33
    this conversation in a year's time what
  • 00:45:34
    do you think would be the single most
  • 00:45:36
    defining moment of the crypto
  • 00:45:38
    industry well I think payments with
  • 00:45:40
    stable coins are having a real moment
  • 00:45:42
    right now most people are still thinking
  • 00:45:43
    about crypto as an asset class that's
  • 00:45:45
    they need to put 10% of their portfolio
  • 00:45:47
    and that's great but pay payments with
  • 00:45:50
    stable coins they grew 300% last year
  • 00:45:52
    they hit $30 trillion of volume I think
  • 00:45:55
    they're going to grow at that radar
  • 00:45:56
    faster this year year that'd be my
  • 00:45:57
    prediction Jenny uh Clarity regulation I
  • 00:46:01
    think that there are there's a fear um
  • 00:46:04
    for traditional firms to get involved in
  • 00:46:06
    the space because of what could
  • 00:46:08
    ultimately have happened with
  • 00:46:09
    retribution so I think Clarity will help
  • 00:46:12
    them get more comfortable and it gives a
  • 00:46:13
    green light to say this is an area that
  • 00:46:15
    you should look into
  • 00:46:18
    Governor um I think this thing
  • 00:46:21
    regulation is about people and one of
  • 00:46:25
    the big issues that been engaging me is
  • 00:46:28
    the utilization of emerging technology
  • 00:46:31
    in crossborder payments think of how
  • 00:46:34
    much it costs to transmit $100 from New
  • 00:46:37
    York to Johannesburg or Harari for that
  • 00:46:41
    matter we have got to bring that cost
  • 00:46:43
    down that's all we have time for today
  • 00:46:45
    so thank you very much everyone thank
  • 00:46:47
    you to the panelists great Round of
  • 00:46:49
    Applause for them I see you again
Tag
  • cryptocurrency
  • regulation
  • blockchain
  • stable coins
  • Davos
  • World Economic Forum
  • innovation
  • financial technology
  • mass adoption
  • institutional investment