Live Call With A Brazilian Sugar Trader #brazil #sugar #exports #thetruth

00:33:48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk4KYtYc6po

Sintesi

TLDRIn this insightful video, Sam and Bernard discuss the intricacies of the sugar industry, emphasizing the need for new entrants to grasp the reality of sugar trading. Bernard shares his extensive experience, noting that 90% of sugar is pre-reserved and that many enticing offers, especially on social media platforms, aren't based in reality. The conversation covers the differences between raw sugar and refined sugar, market pricing, and the implications of international trade policies. They also address the challenges faced in the African market and the importance of a strong network and due diligence to succeed in commodities trading. Finally, Sam promotes his upcoming course aimed at educating new brokers in the commodity market.

Punti di forza

  • 📉 90% of sugar is pre-reserved, indicating limited availability.
  • 🚩 Be wary of sugar offers on platforms like LinkedIn as many are unrealistic.
  • 🌍 Brazil produces mainly raw (VHP) and refined sugar.
  • 📊 Sugar prices fluctuate due to factors like supply constraints and demand.
  • 🔍 New entrants must conduct due diligence to avoid scams in sugar trading.
  • 🔗 Brokers play a crucial role in facilitating market transactions.
  • 💡 Understanding the sugar production process is key to navigating the market.
  • 💰 Sam's course offers insights for aspiring commodity brokers.
  • 🌾 Africa presents both challenges and opportunities in commodity trading.
  • 🌐 Collaboration and a strong network are essential for success in the industry.

Linea temporale

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    Sam Cutting introduces himself and discusses his experience with commodities, focusing on the supply of sunflower oil and grains from Ukraine. He presents an interview with Bernard, a sugar industry expert in Brazil, aimed at providing insights for newcomers in the sugar industry.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Bernard shares his ten years of experience in the sugar industry, highlighting the reality that most sugar is pre-booked, with contracts ongoing for years ahead. He explains the structure of sugar production and how most deals are large-scale, not for small traders.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Bernard explains the sugar production process, clarifying terms like VHP (very high polarity) and the refining process to produce granulated sugar. He emphasizes that many buyers lack understanding of sugar terminology, which can lead to confusion in the market.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:33:48

    The conversation reveals that many offers for sugar, especially those targeting China, are unrealistic. Bernard explains China's investment in its own sugar refineries means they primarily want raw sugar, and the market is trying to avoid importing white sugar.

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Mappa mentale

Video Domande e Risposte

  • What is the primary focus of Bernard's business?

    Bernard has been involved in the sugar trading industry for over 10 years.

  • What percentage of sugar is typically pre-reserved?

    About 90% of sugar is pre-reserved for future contracts.

  • Why are offers for large quantities of sugar often questionable?

    Many offers on platforms like LinkedIn are unrealistic, as they often misrepresent the availability of sugar, particularly white sugar.

  • What are the key types of sugar produced in Brazil?

    Brazil primarily produces raw sugar (VHP) and refined sugar (EC45).

  • What factors influence sugar prices in the market?

    Prices are influenced by supply constraints, global demand, and production costs.

  • How does the sugar production process differentiate between types?

    The process ranges from producing raw sugar to several refining stages, affecting quality and price.

  • What current global challenges are affecting sugar trade?

    Export limitations from countries like India and Nigeria, and rising energy costs in Europe.

  • What does Sam offer for budding commodity brokers?

    Sam offers a 12-month commodity broker course to enhance knowledge and skills in the field.

  • What is the main takeaway for new entrants in the sugar market?

    New entrants need to perform due diligence to navigate the complexities and avoid scams.

  • How do brokers fit into the trading process?

    Brokers facilitate connections in the market, but there's a need for transparency and respect for their roles.

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Scorrimento automatico:
  • 00:00:00
    good day everyone my name is Sam cutting
  • 00:00:03
    and I have been involved with
  • 00:00:04
    commodities now for over half a decade
  • 00:00:08
    I'm focusing more now on the supply side
  • 00:00:11
    of things producing sunflower oil and
  • 00:00:14
    supplying grains from Ukraine
  • 00:00:16
    the interview that you're about to watch
  • 00:00:18
    was with Bernard he has over 10 years
  • 00:00:21
    experience with the sugar industry in
  • 00:00:24
    Brazil now everything that he discusses
  • 00:00:26
    is an absolute eye-opener
  • 00:00:29
    and should be heard by every single
  • 00:00:31
    person working in the industry right now
  • 00:00:34
    especially if you're new to the sugar
  • 00:00:37
    industry this video is for you so sit
  • 00:00:41
    back and take notes
  • 00:00:43
    because you are not going to want to
  • 00:00:45
    miss this
  • 00:00:46
    and so first of all I just want to say
  • 00:00:48
    thank you for this call just to discuss
  • 00:00:53
    this the state of the sugar industry at
  • 00:00:55
    the moment as as we've discussed
  • 00:00:58
    numerous times
  • 00:00:59
    reality
  • 00:01:08
    exactly so it's just a you know quick
  • 00:01:11
    call just to
  • 00:01:13
    um dive into some of this uh
  • 00:01:15
    Ridiculousness and um and yeah just shed
  • 00:01:18
    some light and help people that are new
  • 00:01:20
    to the industry just uh
  • 00:01:22
    um you know learn how to avoid these
  • 00:01:25
    kinds of problems
  • 00:01:26
    um so first
  • 00:01:28
    um if you could tell us about uh your
  • 00:01:30
    experience yeah sure so I'm I'm in the
  • 00:01:33
    business sugar business from now from 10
  • 00:01:35
    years living in Brazil we have a small
  • 00:01:39
    um trading company and we export 99 is
  • 00:01:44
    exporting in in containers not in boats
  • 00:01:46
    okay because the big deals of the boats
  • 00:01:49
    are not for for the for the small
  • 00:01:50
    trading are just only for the five big
  • 00:01:52
    ones like Costco and all all that guys
  • 00:01:58
    no way there are millions billion
  • 00:01:59
    dollars business so we don't do that and
  • 00:02:02
    the most important to beginning for the
  • 00:02:04
    sugar to understand the reality of the
  • 00:02:06
    sugar 90 of the sugar is pre-buy and
  • 00:02:12
    pre-reserved booked for the next years
  • 00:02:14
    and even for the year 24 25 that is not
  • 00:02:18
    already planned okay so that is the
  • 00:02:21
    reality of the sugar sugar is not a
  • 00:02:24
    normal usual commodity and is already by
  • 00:02:27
    by the big buyers in the stock exchange
  • 00:02:30
    with contract for the Futures and that
  • 00:02:33
    is the deal
  • 00:02:35
    all right because we see a lot of we see
  • 00:02:37
    a lot of offers on LinkedIn for China
  • 00:02:39
    and uh you know they want like 250 or
  • 00:02:44
    300 per metric ton for like
  • 00:02:47
    500 000 metric tons per month
  • 00:02:50
    right but it's funny because they they
  • 00:02:52
    always want a one container trial
  • 00:02:54
    [Laughter]
  • 00:02:58
    I know it's another it's another reality
  • 00:03:02
    China have uh from some years ago now
  • 00:03:05
    invests a lot in refineries first I need
  • 00:03:09
    I need to explain something we have the
  • 00:03:12
    the
  • 00:03:13
    usinas what we call it in in Portuguese
  • 00:03:15
    I mean that is the the big Fabrics where
  • 00:03:18
    you produce raw sugar the raw sugar is
  • 00:03:22
    the petroleum of the sugar
  • 00:03:24
    but we call it vhp very high polarity
  • 00:03:27
    okay and this is where come from all the
  • 00:03:30
    sugar from sugarcane
  • 00:03:32
    so that are the
  • 00:03:34
    you Fabrics we can call it like that
  • 00:03:37
    where you produce that and then these
  • 00:03:40
    companies sell to the refinery or they
  • 00:03:42
    have in the same conglomerate business
  • 00:03:44
    Refinery that we will as the name is
  • 00:03:47
    indicated refine the sugar in several
  • 00:03:51
    steps okay beginning from Crystal food
  • 00:03:55
    that is the white sugar using worldwide
  • 00:03:58
    Crystal sugar inclusive 100 150 that is
  • 00:04:02
    a color incusa is never big and there
  • 00:04:06
    will be never a definition of the name
  • 00:04:08
    of a sugar
  • 00:04:10
    so that is one alert when somebody asks
  • 00:04:13
    you in Kusa 45 is don't know what he's
  • 00:04:15
    speaking about
  • 00:04:18
    and 90 of somebody asking inclusive 45
  • 00:04:22
    it never did
  • 00:04:24
    a deal of sugar
  • 00:04:26
    because the name of the Sugar by the
  • 00:04:28
    name is c45 is refined granulated too
  • 00:04:33
    yeah
  • 00:04:34
    okay if you go on the back it says like
  • 00:04:38
    white crystallized sugar doesn't it
  • 00:04:40
    exactly if you go worldwide looking for
  • 00:04:43
    sugarcane you're going to have Crystal
  • 00:04:46
    sugar
  • 00:04:47
    or refined granulated sugar
  • 00:04:50
    but never inclusive 45 if you look for
  • 00:04:53
    inclusive 45 whatever in in any store of
  • 00:04:57
    the world you're never going to find it
  • 00:04:58
    so how somebody can want to buy
  • 00:05:01
    something that's not existing it's the
  • 00:05:03
    beginning
  • 00:05:06
    first red flag exactly
  • 00:05:10
    because somebody making sugar going to
  • 00:05:13
    buy and to ask for something that is
  • 00:05:15
    existing so you're going to buy then
  • 00:05:17
    they is going to call the name of the
  • 00:05:19
    sugar right so that is very important so
  • 00:05:21
    the first phase of from vhp you do
  • 00:05:24
    crystal sugar
  • 00:05:26
    and after you do a morphing sugar it's a
  • 00:05:30
    special sugar but we don't go into after
  • 00:05:32
    Crystal sugar you make another refining
  • 00:05:34
    and another
  • 00:05:36
    whiteness thing to make it easy 45 but
  • 00:05:39
    name it refined United sugar so that is
  • 00:05:42
    the last steps of the refination so the
  • 00:05:46
    more expensive as the kerosene from the
  • 00:05:50
    gasoline
  • 00:05:51
    and first the pet volume right to the
  • 00:05:53
    same same industrial way of doing so
  • 00:05:57
    it's more you refine more is expensive
  • 00:06:01
    because more industrial cost to produce
  • 00:06:03
    it so easy to understand yeah
  • 00:06:06
    and something
  • 00:06:08
    Brazil produced only per year
  • 00:06:11
    600 to 700 000 metric tons of refined
  • 00:06:16
    granted Sugar by name it ec45
  • 00:06:20
    because
  • 00:06:23
    yeah I saw
  • 00:06:25
    um I saw an article I think it was on
  • 00:06:27
    Bloomberg back in May and they estimated
  • 00:06:29
    that the uh sugar yield for this year
  • 00:06:33
    would be like 38 million tons yes more
  • 00:06:37
    or less that is what expected 48 million
  • 00:06:40
    ton of gross producing sugar but 90 of
  • 00:06:44
    them PHP
  • 00:06:47
    okay and then that goes through the
  • 00:06:49
    refining process and no no and selling
  • 00:06:51
    outside the the big exporting from
  • 00:06:54
    Brazil is vhp they're selling out
  • 00:06:58
    something like 20.5 million tons
  • 00:07:02
    not white
  • 00:07:04
    because as I tell you to come back to
  • 00:07:07
    China now I've invested some years ago
  • 00:07:10
    in a Refinery process so they invest and
  • 00:07:14
    they build refineries in China
  • 00:07:18
    and they are yeah and they used
  • 00:07:20
    they are more capacity than they use it
  • 00:07:23
    so what you sell to China is raw sugar
  • 00:07:28
    and they make a big limitation and big
  • 00:07:31
    control to importing white sugar
  • 00:07:34
    is nobody willing white sugar in China
  • 00:07:38
    and China forbidden importation of white
  • 00:07:41
    sugar because they want to use their own
  • 00:07:44
    machine to try to to Pro to to produce
  • 00:07:47
    the white sugar that's the maximize
  • 00:07:49
    profit yay
  • 00:07:51
    Nigeria Mr dangote one of the African
  • 00:07:55
    billionaires is in the petroleum
  • 00:07:57
    business in Simon business and he's in
  • 00:07:59
    Sugar 10 years ago the government of of
  • 00:08:03
    Nigeria say Mr dangote you want to
  • 00:08:04
    invest in Sugar yes I want is make a big
  • 00:08:07
    investment it's planting uh sugarcane
  • 00:08:11
    and these have refineries and is buying
  • 00:08:15
    raw sugar
  • 00:08:17
    and
  • 00:08:19
    they're forbidden importation of white
  • 00:08:22
    sugar you can't import white sugar in
  • 00:08:24
    Nigeria only
  • 00:08:26
    raw sugar
  • 00:08:28
    okay so that is the reality the market
  • 00:08:31
    is not on white sugar business anybody
  • 00:08:34
    asking you 50 000 metric tons per 12 600
  • 00:08:37
    000 whatever that is all all
  • 00:08:40
    red flags to be clear on that
  • 00:08:43
    is not existing yeah
  • 00:08:45
    it's not existence
  • 00:08:49
    sorry yeah the prices are also I think
  • 00:08:51
    the second red flag
  • 00:08:53
    yes
  • 00:08:54
    of course because
  • 00:08:56
    today got obvious
  • 00:09:03
    5 96 20.
  • 00:09:10
    and that is the petroleum so how is
  • 00:09:12
    possible somebody want to buy the the
  • 00:09:16
    the the the refined sugar the white
  • 00:09:18
    sugar less than the petroleum less than
  • 00:09:21
    the vhp cost it's impossible right yeah
  • 00:09:24
    particularly impossible so yeah
  • 00:09:28
    you always say with the offers like
  • 00:09:31
    um if you buy 12 500 Mexican it's gonna
  • 00:09:34
    be like 330 if you buy 50 000 metric
  • 00:09:37
    tons you can get it for like 250 or
  • 00:09:39
    something no that may be in the market
  • 00:09:42
    in Marrakesh you could do like that but
  • 00:09:44
    not on the sugar business
  • 00:09:55
    one in London for the refined granted
  • 00:09:59
    sugar white sugar today on the market on
  • 00:10:01
    the London Market is 600 and let me see
  • 00:10:04
    I have it here just a minute I will open
  • 00:10:07
    it immediately no or is not open
  • 00:10:10
    but I will open it afterwards just to
  • 00:10:12
    tell you the current the current figure
  • 00:10:14
    today okay
  • 00:10:16
    um
  • 00:10:17
    so that is basis for the refine currency
  • 00:10:20
    the guaranteed trigger
  • 00:10:22
    and the other one New York States New
  • 00:10:25
    York's okay change for the crystal sugar
  • 00:10:28
    and raw sugar and plus this quotation
  • 00:10:31
    you need to put a premium
  • 00:10:34
    the premium is dictated by the
  • 00:10:36
    refineries
  • 00:10:39
    and is going to to go up and down
  • 00:10:42
    depending on real quotation against
  • 00:10:46
    dollars of course that's going to move
  • 00:10:48
    not the price because the prices are
  • 00:10:51
    producing in Brazil in realize
  • 00:10:54
    but that's record in dollars so the
  • 00:10:58
    influence of the quotation make fluid in
  • 00:11:01
    that depend on the offer on the market
  • 00:11:05
    and as you know India just limits it for
  • 00:11:10
    for the next harvesting six million ton
  • 00:11:13
    for for the last addressing sorry six
  • 00:11:15
    million ton exportation only six million
  • 00:11:18
    ton exploitation from the second bigger
  • 00:11:21
    sugar producer worldwide
  • 00:11:23
    so that reduced a lot the capacity
  • 00:11:28
    of sugar available availability so the
  • 00:11:31
    price going to rise and they are rising
  • 00:11:33
    today
  • 00:11:38
    sorry
  • 00:11:40
    what price could you see there today
  • 00:11:42
    for a granulated sugar is in the
  • 00:11:47
    quotation in London
  • 00:11:50
    686.2 dollar per ton that is if you buy
  • 00:11:55
    it on the stock exchange
  • 00:11:56
    yes sugar paper sugar well we can call
  • 00:11:59
    it like that because it's not sugar
  • 00:12:01
    they're going to deliver it in October
  • 00:12:06
    you pay in advance because if you buy a
  • 00:12:09
    stockage stock in in a market you need
  • 00:12:11
    to pay it all right you pay in advance
  • 00:12:14
    of course
  • 00:12:15
    yes you pay five percent for the for the
  • 00:12:18
    for the broker making the deal and you
  • 00:12:21
    will receive it in October and you need
  • 00:12:24
    to pay the difference to transform paper
  • 00:12:28
    sugar in physics sugar
  • 00:12:31
    all right
  • 00:12:33
    so that's the reality on the market so
  • 00:12:35
    for that if you want to buy this sugar
  • 00:12:36
    today to a physical sugar fob you will
  • 00:12:40
    pay that plus
  • 00:12:42
    150 dollars premium so 686 per 150 is
  • 00:12:47
    making
  • 00:12:48
    820 something like that
  • 00:12:50
    all right so that is the price of fine
  • 00:12:53
    grenated sugar a4b centers today
  • 00:12:56
    yeah wow and that's a massive difference
  • 00:13:00
    from what we're seeing online of course
  • 00:13:02
    yeah but please just anybody want to
  • 00:13:05
    have an idea of the price of the sugar
  • 00:13:07
    go to the supermarket and look what is
  • 00:13:09
    the price of the refined grated sugar
  • 00:13:12
    and the Crystal sugar on your Market
  • 00:13:18
    when we spoke last year about the sugar
  • 00:13:20
    remember you told me it was a dollar per
  • 00:13:23
    kilogram in Brazil at that time yes
  • 00:13:26
    today in Brazil it's called one dollars
  • 00:13:29
    yeah if they keep up to one dollar
  • 00:13:32
    more or less one dollar per kilo so how
  • 00:13:35
    somebody want to buy shippers and you
  • 00:13:37
    make it in the bigger sugar producer
  • 00:13:40
    worldwide Norway
  • 00:13:44
    Europe is another reality because the
  • 00:13:46
    sugar of Europe is not uh um sugar cane
  • 00:13:50
    is beet sugar right yeah we've discussed
  • 00:13:53
    this many times uh the Ukrainian Beach
  • 00:13:54
    you're going is quite expensive
  • 00:13:57
    um there's an export ban on that at the
  • 00:13:59
    moment until the 15th of September
  • 00:14:02
    um but the price that we were quoting
  • 00:14:03
    before the band was about 780 and that's
  • 00:14:07
    that's bulk that's without packaging
  • 00:14:09
    that's without anything and that's Euros
  • 00:14:11
    780 Euros FCA
  • 00:14:14
    yeah because the big difference between
  • 00:14:16
    big sugar and sugarcane that beet sugar
  • 00:14:20
    need energy to be produced and as you
  • 00:14:23
    know gas and electricity Rose in Europe
  • 00:14:26
    400 500 so it's very more interesting
  • 00:14:31
    efficiency is bad on sugarcane
  • 00:14:35
    you produce sugar
  • 00:14:37
    with your own
  • 00:14:41
    and you said it in English own um rest
  • 00:14:45
    of the of the of the of the sugar cane
  • 00:14:47
    okay you produce the energy and you sell
  • 00:14:50
    energy as well so is a sugar efficiency
  • 00:14:55
    200 because you you produce you you use
  • 00:14:58
    your own energy with your sugarcane
  • 00:15:01
    burning and you send me out on the
  • 00:15:04
    unscript
  • 00:15:06
    so for that the cost of the production
  • 00:15:08
    of sugarcane is
  • 00:15:10
    very low comparing with big sugar that
  • 00:15:15
    you need 100 of energy
  • 00:15:17
    yeah using and when the cost of the
  • 00:15:20
    energy Rising 400 of course
  • 00:15:23
    yeah everything goes up
  • 00:15:26
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  • 00:15:28
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    let's get back to the video
  • 00:17:18
    another reality to understand even you
  • 00:17:21
    United States producing 50 50 for big
  • 00:17:27
    sugar and fifty percent of sugarcane
  • 00:17:30
    to control the market
  • 00:17:32
    they put a tax importation if you don't
  • 00:17:36
    have the trq
  • 00:17:37
    tax rate codes you pay 350 dollar per
  • 00:17:42
    ton to import
  • 00:17:44
    sugarcane
  • 00:17:46
    to USA in Europe
  • 00:17:48
    405 Euros per ton yeah
  • 00:17:54
    especially considering the high crisis
  • 00:17:56
    yes that is protective wave I mean
  • 00:17:59
    because Europe and and USA are more
  • 00:18:02
    democratic than than China or Nigeria
  • 00:18:05
    where they just for forbidden say no no
  • 00:18:07
    way you don't come inside they make a
  • 00:18:10
    rising cup with a special tax
  • 00:18:13
    importation
  • 00:18:14
    and see they just help USA help
  • 00:18:17
    Guatemala Mexico and all that small
  • 00:18:20
    countries of small producing sugar
  • 00:18:22
    because they are a third weld country
  • 00:18:24
    and they want to help them they give
  • 00:18:26
    them a special contact to import but a
  • 00:18:28
    very few quantities
  • 00:18:31
    that's right even Europe do the same
  • 00:18:33
    with uh everything everything importing
  • 00:18:37
    uh but not uh not armed something like
  • 00:18:41
    that I'm not sure I remember the special
  • 00:18:43
    project they have in Europe as well but
  • 00:18:45
    small quad and or small producer okay so
  • 00:18:48
    that is the reality
  • 00:18:50
    yeah
  • 00:18:52
    yeah I think that's uh it's important
  • 00:18:54
    that you know especially with uh every
  • 00:18:56
    day we're seeing more and more commodity
  • 00:18:58
    Brokers or people getting involved with
  • 00:19:00
    it and they don't they don't know how to
  • 00:19:03
    do due diligence they don't they don't
  • 00:19:05
    know the right people they're not
  • 00:19:06
    finding the right information and
  • 00:19:09
    um you know just hearing this 20-minute
  • 00:19:11
    conversation should open a lot of
  • 00:19:13
    people's eyes and we have to realizing
  • 00:19:16
    that what they're seeing on LinkedIn for
  • 00:19:18
    example just isn't reality no it's not
  • 00:19:21
    reality it's totally completely out of
  • 00:19:24
    any reality because the an understand
  • 00:19:26
    the market is very very professional if
  • 00:19:30
    there was a demand worldwide of refine
  • 00:19:34
    granted sugar bad name Etc 45 so big
  • 00:19:37
    that the people say in in linking or
  • 00:19:40
    whatever in Facebook or whatever things
  • 00:19:41
    Brazilian
  • 00:19:43
    industrial we produce it why they
  • 00:19:46
    produce only 700 000 metric tons
  • 00:19:50
    because there's no Demand on the market
  • 00:19:53
    the crystal the white white sugar
  • 00:19:55
    crystal sugar white using worldwide then
  • 00:19:58
    they produce 8 million ton of sugar on
  • 00:20:01
    this one because he's the sugar is
  • 00:20:04
    everywhere in Brazil and in a lot of
  • 00:20:07
    countries like Africa and that they can
  • 00:20:09
    use but they use crystal sugar the
  • 00:20:12
    difference between ec-45 and ec-100 is
  • 00:20:17
    quite impossible to see the difference
  • 00:20:18
    for the non-professional hi yeah so the
  • 00:20:24
    so where do you think this I mean what
  • 00:20:27
    the scam that I heard about
  • 00:20:29
    um when I first got into you know
  • 00:20:31
    commodity uh for sugar was that
  • 00:20:33
    obviously the cheap the cheap uh cheaper
  • 00:20:36
    option is
  • 00:20:38
    um
  • 00:20:39
    the crystal sugar is that right that's
  • 00:20:42
    the cheaper option so what they do is
  • 00:20:44
    because like you said there it's uh it's
  • 00:20:46
    hard to differentiate between them so
  • 00:20:48
    they give you the cheap sugar for the
  • 00:20:51
    cheaper prices and then they get the LC
  • 00:20:52
    and then and uh it's not actually what
  • 00:20:55
    the buyers are paying for exactly
  • 00:20:57
    everybody speak about ec45 but mainly
  • 00:21:00
    what the people buy is Crystal sugar
  • 00:21:03
    no you say 100. you could understand the
  • 00:21:08
    sweetness is the same is 99.8
  • 00:21:13
    sucrose contents in both of sugars
  • 00:21:18
    is a bit more what is more refined and
  • 00:21:21
    he's bad for the health as well I mean
  • 00:21:23
    the more refined worse for the else yeah
  • 00:21:26
    of course of course because it's nothing
  • 00:21:28
    more than sugar inside
  • 00:21:35
    in water
  • 00:21:37
    is the same Sweden you know for for the
  • 00:21:40
    testing so is no use
  • 00:21:42
    is no way to use it's a 45 but name it
  • 00:21:46
    against Crystal no way why is paying 100
  • 00:21:48
    more for for nothing
  • 00:21:51
    yeah
  • 00:21:56
    exactly
  • 00:21:57
    they give you the cheap prices because
  • 00:22:00
    it just about covers the cheaper sugar
  • 00:22:02
    and they can sell that still make a
  • 00:22:04
    profit and you don't get what you
  • 00:22:06
    actually pay for exactly
  • 00:22:09
    you pay more for for nothing
  • 00:22:12
    but sugar cheap sugar is not existing
  • 00:22:15
    now for for more than 10 years and is
  • 00:22:17
    not going to in six for the next 10 to
  • 00:22:20
    20 years in the in the future as well no
  • 00:22:22
    way no way
  • 00:22:23
    it's all pre-booked
  • 00:22:25
    of course of course 80 or 85 90 of the
  • 00:22:28
    sugar is already buy even for the next
  • 00:22:31
    harvesting that is not beginning that's
  • 00:22:34
    all
  • 00:22:38
    he's not sorry go ahead we only can and
  • 00:22:42
    that is reality as well for the for the
  • 00:22:44
    people to direct Flags the reality of
  • 00:22:46
    sugar for us on earth side even
  • 00:22:49
    professional we are is containers
  • 00:22:52
    business
  • 00:22:53
    forget both
  • 00:22:55
    in 10 years
  • 00:22:57
    I never make a boat of sugar
  • 00:22:59
    so oh I'm very stupid completely
  • 00:23:02
    invasive completely out of my mind oh
  • 00:23:05
    something is happening but I said a lot
  • 00:23:07
    of containers
  • 00:23:09
    in Botswana in in USA because we have a
  • 00:23:12
    trq we wish to have a tr2 so we sell
  • 00:23:14
    sugar in in there we start to get to
  • 00:23:17
    Turkey to Venezuela as well of course
  • 00:23:20
    Venezuela is Advance payment because we
  • 00:23:22
    can't do it otherwise to Venezuela but
  • 00:23:25
    we sell to Venezuela so well a lot of
  • 00:23:27
    country in Ghana a lot of country in
  • 00:23:29
    Africa as well but containers so please
  • 00:23:33
    maybe I'm stupid okay maybe you are you
  • 00:23:36
    know the guy say no I'm going to make 12
  • 00:23:38
    500 for 12. how I never make it and I'm
  • 00:23:42
    living in Brazil and I know all the
  • 00:23:44
    refinery in my world in Brazil we are
  • 00:23:46
    referencing with the biggest refinery in
  • 00:23:48
    the world is Brazilian of course Horizon
  • 00:23:50
    we work with them on a daily basis
  • 00:23:54
    and we never make to make it happen for
  • 00:23:56
    one day for for one boat so
  • 00:23:59
    something happened you know
  • 00:24:01
    can we can finish with um you know just
  • 00:24:04
    tell us a little bit about uh you know
  • 00:24:06
    what it is you're doing at the moment
  • 00:24:07
    what brings you to Europe are you still
  • 00:24:09
    yeah now I'm working as well with um a
  • 00:24:14
    big uh company holding company in
  • 00:24:17
    Lebanon we are based in Lebanon but we
  • 00:24:19
    are working in a lot in Africa and uh we
  • 00:24:22
    are now dealing with uh
  • 00:24:26
    uh
  • 00:24:28
    oil to avoid the problem we have now in
  • 00:24:31
    in Ukraine with with sunflower oil from
  • 00:24:34
    Tanzania it's the fifth bigger and we're
  • 00:24:37
    going to pick up their they all have a
  • 00:24:39
    good price very good quality and what's
  • 00:24:42
    the price of sunflower oil in Tanzania
  • 00:24:44
    at the moment in Tanzania we can make it
  • 00:24:47
    arriving CIF West Africa around 1 200 1
  • 00:24:52
    300 depending on the on the contents 51
  • 00:24:56
    liter of 25 liter
  • 00:24:59
    yeah it's very good price and it's
  • 00:25:02
    easier than working with ukrania it's
  • 00:25:04
    not because I don't want to work with
  • 00:25:05
    ukrania but it's easier as you know
  • 00:25:07
    yeah it is uh we're exploring having to
  • 00:25:11
    ship from uh Constanta
  • 00:25:14
    um so if it's a broad but person I
  • 00:25:17
    prefer to deal with Europe
  • 00:25:19
    because you just delivered by truck it's
  • 00:25:21
    much easier yeah it's better for sure
  • 00:25:24
    and we are
  • 00:25:26
    um flower wheat as well from Poland very
  • 00:25:29
    very good price very good price uh we
  • 00:25:33
    have
  • 00:25:34
    um butter milk as well using in Africa a
  • 00:25:37
    lot uh with a 28 fats and 26 proteins
  • 00:25:42
    that would that they need salt even salt
  • 00:25:45
    from France to to Africa of
  • 00:25:48
    concentrating in Africa because Africa
  • 00:25:50
    is a future for me about business okay
  • 00:25:52
    Europe is down yeah it does seem to be
  • 00:25:55
    that way uh you know a lot of a lot of
  • 00:25:57
    Chinese have been going there for years
  • 00:26:00
    um it's uh it's definitely a new a new
  • 00:26:03
    place of focus for a lot of companies
  • 00:26:07
    for food for food business is a lot of
  • 00:26:10
    emergency very capacity and a lot of
  • 00:26:13
    people making of course full of scammers
  • 00:26:15
    and full of things as everywhere in the
  • 00:26:17
    world that is not yeah with serious
  • 00:26:21
    people
  • 00:26:23
    we need to to you know to to to settle
  • 00:26:26
    and to to be together with a very
  • 00:26:28
    serious people we need to have that you
  • 00:26:30
    know as we do now all together together
  • 00:26:32
    yeah you need you need that strong
  • 00:26:34
    network of experience
  • 00:26:36
    um because you know for example if if I
  • 00:26:39
    was introduced to a super supplier or a
  • 00:26:42
    sugar bar or something and I needed
  • 00:26:44
    um some informational knowledge I would
  • 00:26:46
    just contact you and uh I'd fit your
  • 00:26:49
    opinion like I have done before you know
  • 00:26:50
    a few times
  • 00:26:52
    um so yeah for that is we need to be all
  • 00:26:56
    together
  • 00:26:57
    strengthening with a good Network to to
  • 00:26:59
    make it happen absolutely is hard work
  • 00:27:02
    is not to be a millionaire not at all
  • 00:27:05
    don't forget how it's possible somebody
  • 00:27:07
    want to be millionaire selling sugar
  • 00:27:09
    that's if this was the truth everybody
  • 00:27:11
    make it I mean come on yeah
  • 00:27:14
    well like all things you've been doing
  • 00:27:16
    containers
  • 00:27:17
    um for 10 years because it's a real I'm
  • 00:27:20
    pretty sure you're pretty sure if it was
  • 00:27:22
    possible you would have had a boat too
  • 00:27:24
    evidently of course but there's no way
  • 00:27:26
    to make it because the buyer that the
  • 00:27:30
    the the the small buyers buy small
  • 00:27:32
    quantity and 12 500 metric tons at 800
  • 00:27:37
    per ton making the app it is 10 million
  • 00:27:40
    dollars more than that who was 10
  • 00:27:42
    million dollars they don't need me or
  • 00:27:44
    you or whatever
  • 00:27:45
    no they just go direct they don't need
  • 00:27:47
    us because of course directly to the big
  • 00:27:50
    guys of the of the trading company LDC
  • 00:27:53
    with refuse to the company like that
  • 00:27:55
    they just call them look I have 10
  • 00:27:56
    million to buy sugar every month
  • 00:27:59
    120 million how somebody can believe
  • 00:28:02
    that in Internet is going to make a 120
  • 00:28:06
    million dollars deal wow my man
  • 00:28:09
    yeah wow yes no way this is this is this
  • 00:28:13
    is this is the point of these you know
  • 00:28:15
    these uh Zoom calls because I'm trying
  • 00:28:17
    to
  • 00:28:18
    um I'm going to be speaking with
  • 00:28:20
    different people in different Industries
  • 00:28:22
    just to you know shed some light on
  • 00:28:24
    what's actually going on
  • 00:28:26
    um you know and this is the the first of
  • 00:28:28
    many I hoped and um you know we could
  • 00:28:30
    definitely catch up again as well
  • 00:28:33
    um so yeah I mean look I won't keep you
  • 00:28:35
    too long I know you're busy
  • 00:28:37
    um but yeah appreciate you yeah thank
  • 00:28:39
    you very much people to make it happen
  • 00:28:42
    but be fit on the ground
  • 00:28:46
    the I mean cool down don't dream be on
  • 00:28:51
    the reality
  • 00:28:53
    yeah exactly
  • 00:28:54
    and the reality is what we have on our
  • 00:28:57
    ends and even the business of one
  • 00:28:59
    million dollars is a lot so how you can
  • 00:29:02
    imagine
  • 00:29:03
    120 million per year come on that's the
  • 00:29:07
    thing you know as well it's like uh
  • 00:29:09
    people adding ridiculous commissions
  • 00:29:11
    like yeah this is this is why we've
  • 00:29:14
    struggled to do anything with Africa
  • 00:29:16
    because as you know there's ambassadors
  • 00:29:19
    there's people that need to be paid in
  • 00:29:22
    order to connect you to people that have
  • 00:29:24
    the money and when you're talking for
  • 00:29:27
    example something like corn
  • 00:29:30
    they want thirty dollars per metric ton
  • 00:29:33
    for like 50 000 metric tons of stock
  • 00:29:36
    come on be you know a dollar a dollar is
  • 00:29:40
    more than enough
  • 00:29:42
    yeah but none of them
  • 00:29:44
    so that's more than happy to not have a
  • 00:29:47
    deal go through if they don't make their
  • 00:29:48
    money that is very important what you
  • 00:29:51
    say we need as you need intermediary
  • 00:29:55
    people Brokers whatever you want to call
  • 00:29:57
    them because they open the door
  • 00:29:59
    absolutely
  • 00:30:01
    okay we need them we can be everywhere
  • 00:30:03
    we can know everybody we can't so we
  • 00:30:05
    need the people to open the doors
  • 00:30:07
    exactly you need feet on the ground in
  • 00:30:09
    the country exactly but when they open
  • 00:30:12
    the doors they just have to respect
  • 00:30:14
    their work opening the door let the
  • 00:30:17
    professional after protein and if they
  • 00:30:20
    make one dollars as you say or even five
  • 00:30:23
    dollar permit return
  • 00:30:25
    is a lot of money
  • 00:30:28
    yeah
  • 00:30:31
    no one ever did boys you know most
  • 00:30:34
    people they do a spot deal but they'll
  • 00:30:35
    come back for more yay so how you know
  • 00:30:39
    nobody going to and something important
  • 00:30:41
    I I will I will be uh hard but it's a
  • 00:30:45
    reality in Africa the minimum salary is
  • 00:30:47
    around 200 250 dollars
  • 00:30:50
    all right so anybody asking you one
  • 00:30:54
    million dollars commission you say okay
  • 00:30:55
    come on you are joking with who you
  • 00:30:57
    never make it in your life
  • 00:30:59
    so let it happen make your job open the
  • 00:31:02
    door let me work let me close the deal
  • 00:31:04
    and when we close the deal you make your
  • 00:31:06
    money and if you make your money you
  • 00:31:08
    make the money every month if you make
  • 00:31:11
    three four five ten thousand dollar per
  • 00:31:13
    month it's a fortune for you and for
  • 00:31:15
    everybody worldwide
  • 00:31:17
    a salary of ten thousand dollars how
  • 00:31:20
    much people in the world making ten
  • 00:31:22
    thousand dollars
  • 00:31:25
    you would be surprised how many people
  • 00:31:28
    refuse
  • 00:31:30
    to make even ten thousand dollars oh
  • 00:31:33
    it's not enough
  • 00:31:34
    Bangladesh is another problem there's
  • 00:31:37
    always about 50 Brokers involved that
  • 00:31:39
    all want three or four dollars
  • 00:31:41
    no way
  • 00:31:43
    no that is
  • 00:31:48
    not for the buyer who then thinks yeah
  • 00:31:50
    this is this is just unrealistic so the
  • 00:31:52
    deals never happen never happened
  • 00:31:54
    because the the real buyer know the
  • 00:31:57
    price
  • 00:32:01
    again so you can't write the price up
  • 00:32:04
    there and that is something I we I we
  • 00:32:08
    oblige on the company that we have
  • 00:32:10
    whatever Brokers you want but I need to
  • 00:32:13
    speak with the end seller or the
  • 00:32:14
    unbiased
  • 00:32:15
    yeah speak with him directly I don't do
  • 00:32:18
    the deal I don't want to lose my time
  • 00:32:20
    because I lost a lot of time with
  • 00:32:23
    Brokers when I say something the broker
  • 00:32:25
    changed because you want to make it
  • 00:32:26
    happen on his way but he don't know how
  • 00:32:28
    he's working because he never make it no
  • 00:32:30
    business and he's say to other one the
  • 00:32:32
    other one changes and after in the chain
  • 00:32:34
    the real buyer have a bad information
  • 00:32:37
    and not the real information from
  • 00:32:39
    yourself so we need Whispers we respect
  • 00:32:43
    the Brokers with respect the
  • 00:32:45
    intermediary we need them but everybody
  • 00:32:48
    on this job
  • 00:32:51
    you are not a broke you are not trading
  • 00:32:54
    because you don't buy it trading buy the
  • 00:32:57
    product and resell it after buying what
  • 00:32:59
    we do from the Lebanese company we buy
  • 00:33:01
    products we sell it so we are real
  • 00:33:05
    trading the trading are buying and
  • 00:33:07
    reselling right they're not just
  • 00:33:09
    intermediation it's not that the way to
  • 00:33:12
    do to work no absolutely
  • 00:33:14
    so you're looking forward to the weekend
  • 00:33:16
    yep
  • 00:33:17
    they're going to to see a concert
  • 00:33:19
    tonight
  • 00:33:20
    oh fantastic
  • 00:33:22
    it's a small jazz festival there so I've
  • 00:33:25
    been to
  • 00:33:26
    to have some
  • 00:33:27
    some relaxation with a beer and a nice
  • 00:33:30
    jazz concert yeah nice lovely all right
  • 00:33:34
    well I'll leave that there and uh yeah
  • 00:33:36
    we'll catch up and uh yeah appreciate it
  • 00:33:38
    for coming on and we'll speak soon
  • 00:33:46
    thank you
Tag
  • Sugar Industry
  • Commodity Trading
  • Brazil
  • Market Insights
  • Supply Chain
  • Brokers
  • Refined Sugar
  • VHP
  • Due Diligence
  • Global Market