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this is democracy Now democracynow.org
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The War and Peace report I'm Amy Goodman
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with Aaron matate Our Guest sergean
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garus who also has written a book simply
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called aende about the president who he
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advised his closest advisor until
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September 11th 40 years ago
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1973 when the palace was being bombed by
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the penese forces and Salvador yende
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took his own life he was surrounded by
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his other advisers but he walked Dron
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garus to the door and said Tell The
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World Dron garus went on as a Spanish
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lawyer to work to hold pinese
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responsible and ultimately through Bazar
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garon the Spanish judge had
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him had him call for Augusta Pen's
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extradition to Spain to be tried Augusta
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penese was in London and Augusta penese
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was held for about a year there before
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ultimately he was allowed to return home
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to Chile we're also joined by Peter corn
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author of the pishe file Declassified
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doity dossier on atrocity and
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accountability I was just speaking about
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Joyce Horman um the Widow of uh the
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freelance journalist Charlie Horman
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Peter corl tell us what Charlie
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discovered in those days leading up to
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the coup why he was so dangerous and
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what you learned um uh in CL
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declassification of documents of uh
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Kissinger well Charles Horn and and his
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wife Joyce were uh part of a large group
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of of Americans who went to Chile during
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the aende years Chile was a as as Jean
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gar will tell us was a dynamic exciting
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place the whole world was watching what
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was happening there it was something new
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and vibrant um and uh what was it what
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was happening I
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mean famous via Pacifica of of towards
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towards social change um not armed
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Revolution uh to bring uh fundamental
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change to a third world country but
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Democratic Revolution um in which uh the
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people would vote uh in institutions
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would gradually be changed to spread the
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wealth equally to nationalize uh
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resources uh uh so that the US copper
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companies and corporations like it&
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didn't suck the uh money right out of
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the country um this was an exciting um
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new model of change for Latin America
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and the world that's what made it so
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dangerous uh for the Nixon and kingers
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of of of the world um so Charlie and and
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and his wife Joyce were there Charles
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Horman was actually uh as part of his
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journalistic approach he was actually
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investigating the the murder of the
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Chilean commander-in-chief General Renee
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Schneider that took place in October of
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1970 and was part of a CIA operation to
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foment a coup to create a coup climate
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in Chile that might stop aen from
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actually being inaugurated the first
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week of November um this was an atrocity
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bald assassination of the commander
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chief of the Chilean Armed Forces right
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in broad daylight on the streets um
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there was a trial that had taken place
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in Chile there were documents that
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really did um focus on on on the
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contacts with the United States and the
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coup plotters uh in my book The Pino
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file I have one still secret CIA
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document um which reveals that the
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agency paid the people that killed Rene
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Schneider 35 ,000 to close their mouths
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about the US role and to help them
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escape from Chile uh to get beyond the
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the grasp of justice but some people
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were arrested um tried Charlie Horman
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was investigating that looking at the
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trial file he also happened to be in
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Velar ISO on the day of the coup and met
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um a number of Us official wello is a
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coastal very famous coastal town he went
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to Vin delar he went to valo it was um
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where the US Navy um uh uh group that
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was uh advising the Chilean military the
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US group the US Mill group was there he
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met the head of the US Mill group
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Captain Ray Davis who actually drove him
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and a companion back to Santiago because
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there was a curfew and so the
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implication was is that he had talked to
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these Americans that he might actually
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know something about about the coup it
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is still a the details of his death and
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and why uh he was killed are are still
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murky and the case is going forward and
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actually almost 40 years later a Chilean
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judge actually indicted Captain Ray
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Davis the head of the US Mill group uh
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for his death so we are hoping in the
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months to come that we learn more about
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the circumstances uh under which he died
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uh Peter the role of the it Corporation
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to this huge us firm that had a lot of
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interest in
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Chile it owned the telephone companies
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in Chile they own the Sheron Hotel um
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they were a very aggressive company uh
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in in Latin America uh and they decided
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they should have their own foreign
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policy and they started uh pushing for
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meetings with the uh with the uh the CIA
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it helped that they had on their board
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of directors a former CIA director John
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mcon and he was able to gain access to
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uh to the CIA rather easily um there was
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more than 40 meetings between CIA
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officials and it officials it wanted to
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start funneling secret funds to ende's
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opponent in the 1970 election
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um uh one of the for for students of
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this history the first real documents
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that came out on us intervention Chile
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were it internal memos that recorded
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their meetings with the CIA and the US
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ambassador as your um as your audience
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heard in the tape that was that was that
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was played on your program uh so this
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was the first kind of real inkling of of
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what was happening the Scandal arose Jan
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garas can remember what happened because
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ayende was president at the time and he
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simply declared we were negotiating to
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nationalize and compensate it but now
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that we see there a completely criminal
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Enterprise intervening with the CIA and
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our internal State of Affairs we're
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going to uh expropriate their their
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Holdings in
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Chile and how John garus was aende
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dealing with ITT Kissinger Nixon what
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did he understand was their role in
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supporting penese did he what uh
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agend wanted always a good agreement
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with the United
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States and uh certainly he said that he
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he should uh go in Conformity with the
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willingness of the Chilean people and
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the chil Congress but looking for a way
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to preserve the good relations with the
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United States and in fact several months
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before the coup a high delegation from
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Chile came to Washington
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to open former negotiations to try to
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solve the differences that in terms of
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investments in terms of economic
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relations were present in this in this
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period and the those of the US
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government in in Washington were
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practically closed no dialogue no
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negotiation could it so uh what
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is 40 years later what is interesting is
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that you see this could against very
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active Democratic
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Society articulated by an operation
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where one of the leg is a mass media
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group Mercurio asking the intervention
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of the US government through secret
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services in relation with some
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corporations that have private
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investments in Chile with those three
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leaks uh excuse me Le the the co the
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destabilization of the society was that
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and now with the
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technological uh means that currently
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are at our disposal at the disposal of
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the government you realize that the
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three legs are still working
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corporations that uh link have links
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with secret
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services and the articulation with the
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government the government to prepare
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interventions in other countries invas
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and uh that has been the case
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particularly after the tragedy of the
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attack to New York in 2001 but the
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balance that we can do and many country
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do in the United States citizens are
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doing also is what is the cost of those
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options to follow this path for the
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economy of our countries and for the h
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the health of our democratic system I
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wanted to ask about something remarkable
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that um you did in your efforts to bring
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Justice to the people of Chile and to uh
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hold pinache accountable and that was to
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get at his money which was the people's
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money of Chile the millions of dollars
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he'd stashed away uh Peter first Peter
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corn BL um sort of lay this out for an
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American audience uh talk about the
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story of rigs Bank well let me just say
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it's such a pleasure to be on on the
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show is Jean garas for what he did
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during the ende period and what he did
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to bring Pino to Justice and then what
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he did to uh really trying to recover
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the money that Pino had clearly stolen
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and hidden
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away uh in secret bank accounts uh the
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CIA documents on on Pino described him
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as hardworking and honest but it turns
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out that he was completely corrupt as uh
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in addition to being murderous uh and he
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uh secretly took uh more than $26
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million of Chilean money hit it in 120
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bank accounts some of many of them
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offshore accounts using false passports
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the images of with of which are are in
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the new edition of of the Pino file um
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and using kind of variance of his name
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but without the name Pino uh to try and
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hide the fact that these were his assets
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like he he is he used the name austo
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Ugarte P or simply austo Ugarte or Ramon
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ugar because his full name was austo
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romon ugar Pino no or Pino ugar right uh
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and and and some other false names and
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he had some of his AIDS uh names uh and
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he had some of his the variance of his
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children's names on these accounts and
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um rig's Bank uh the famous Bank of
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Washington DC owned by Joseph Al
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Brittain um had approached Peno uh uh
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for years and at some one point they
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actually held the secret the accounts of
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the Chilean secret police Dena uh uh in
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their uh in their Bank in Washington um
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but uh eventually US Senate uh this was
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the most amazing thing US Senate
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investigation kind of looking at whether
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Banks had tight enough regulations on
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money laundering by terrorists after
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911 stumbled across the fact that rigs
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Bank was hiding all of these funds from
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from Pino and they recover the almost
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the entire file that how did they
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discover
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they were investigating Banks and
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whether they were uh their regulations
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were so loose that terrorists in the
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post 911 world could launder money for
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terrorist activities they were looking
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for that the financial side of terrorism
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in the post 911 world and so they were
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looking for accounts that were
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suspicious they started an investigation
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and immediately they were told that in
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rig's Bank there were a series of people
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that knew that there was this very
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suspicious icious account that belonged
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to austo Pino and they asked for the
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file on it and eventually they got the
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entire file which was so incredible
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because included all the correspondents
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between Joseph Albert and the chairman
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of the board of the of the bank and Pino
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himself and the memorandum on the visits
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by Bank officials to Pino and other
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Chilean officials in Santiago including
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going to horse clubs and equestrian
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shows and exchanging gifts and cufflinks
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and who is Joseph Al Britton I mean
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Joseph Al was one of the the big uh
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banking corporate Moguls of Washington
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DC um he owned the the sports team I
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forget uh whether it was the basketball
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team of the Redskins um uh at one point
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he owned a bunch of newspapers and radio
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stations he owned rig's bank um but
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fundamentally he participated in a
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conspiracy to hide austo Pino's money uh
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and uh he they evaded the assets the F
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the Shuan garc managed to get Pino's
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assets Frozen but rig's Bank violated
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that court order to Freeze's assets by
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secretly starting to funnel back to him
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all of his money in in $50,000 cashier
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checks they had a courier that would
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bring literally bundles of these checks
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to Pino's house in Santiago um and the
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story returns to Joan garcas because
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more than $8 million of this uh 20 plus
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million St cash of money was given back
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to Pino illegally by rigs uh and Joan
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gar stepped in and said that money
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belongs to the Chilean people and to the
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victims of Pino and he recovered it Al
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brittain's son is now runs Politico Al
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Brittain owned started Politico um uh uh
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created Politico um and then when he
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passed away his son took over uh so he
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there's still a presence of of of the
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family yeah so you got Jan garus
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Millions of dollars of Chile's money um
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Frozen and then how was it distributed
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back to the people of Chile thanks to an
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investigation uh in the US Senate as
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Peter was explaining by Senator Carl Lan
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of of Michigan a terrific Senator the
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under committee on
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investigations and they uh accepted to
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cooperate with the court of justice that
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was ER persecuted pit and thanks to this
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cooperation we between the usate and the
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Spanish Court uh uh we reach to indict
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the the owners of R bank that in
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something that is without president from
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their own pocket uh uh paid the totality
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of the money that went through the bank
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channels uh hitting the pinet money and
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we distribute that to the victims of pet
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that were consider such with this status
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in the court is the only money that that
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related direct directly to pet has never
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been distributed to the
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victims but that money the millions of
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dollars how did you identify the Ser the
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victims um the survivors and have it
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distributed that was
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there the victims were recognized as
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such in the court because uh thousand of
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them have been
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uh the object of an inquiry inside Chile
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by an official commission committee rigs
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that establish the list of thousands of
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people that were murdered or dis for
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disappeared and uh we in Spain with the
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cooperation of of Chileans inside Chile
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created a new commission for victims of
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torture victims that survived the
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torture and we uh found through this
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commission uh identified more than
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20,000 persons and uh there then they
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they have the right to receive a part of
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the IND
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indemnities taking this forward um how
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you got pinache how you got him arrested
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in England um we just went all to a big
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event last night um where you Jan garcis
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you Peter corn BL um uh balazar garon
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the Spanish judge and others were
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honored in this 40th anniversary of this
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other 911 September 11th 1973 when
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pinese Rose to power in Chile um you
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left the palace taking the word of what
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happened there September 11 1973 as
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president deand asked you to do and you
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went forth you were actually born in
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Spain you ultimately went to Spain um
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you are a lawyer how did you get pinese
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arrested in
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England it's a matter of
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conviction this man was a criminal of
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course and deserves to uh make to be
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made accountable for those crimes so uh
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someone it say to to kill him there was
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an attempt against his life uh my way of
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thinking is different is to work to
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collect to gather evidences about his
00:17:42
crimes to look for a court of justice
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and wait for the moment in which the
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political conditions could make him
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accountable uh and that happened after
00:17:53
the end of the Cold War and uh we
00:17:56
applyed International treaty
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European convention on extradition and
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the International Convention Against
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torture and we found the courts in
00:18:06
Europe and apply the principles of
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universal
00:18:10
jurisdiction and we got pet
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and the difference between a killing a
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murder and a legal proceeding you can
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see here the consequences had he been
00:18:25
killed in the attempted assassination uh
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in 1960
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1986 things in Chile will be very
00:18:34
different or what come after the legal
00:18:38
proceeding where the crimes were openly
00:18:41
explained in front of an independent
00:18:44
court and the Chilean Society since then
00:18:48
P was arrested in 1999 and since then
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until
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now the big majority of Chileans agree
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that the transition to the democracy in
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Chile Begins the day in which Pinot Pino
00:19:02
was put in front of a of a court of
00:19:06
justice um Peter corn BL uh if you can
00:19:10
uh talk about uh this remarkable event
00:19:13
from a US perspective um what actually
00:19:16
took place so 73 uh penese Rises to
00:19:19
power he rules for 17 years in 1989 he
00:19:24
goes to the doctor in London he's also
00:19:27
what meeting with the former prime
00:19:28
minister Thatcher and he is certainly
00:19:30
treated as a dignitary um where were you
00:19:33
when he was arrested in
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1998 uh October
00:19:39
16th uh it was a day that everybody in
00:19:42
the Chile Community
00:19:44
remembers uh General Pino because of the
00:19:46
work of Jean gares and Bazar garon uh
00:19:51
and some key people in London uh take
00:19:53
advantage of the fact that Pino is
00:19:55
having a kind of minor surgery uh at a
00:19:58
place called The Clinic uh in London um
00:20:02
and they file
00:20:04
a a request for his arrest under the
00:20:07
European uh counterterrorism convention
00:20:10
because Pino committed major acts of
00:20:11
international terrorism he spearheaded
00:20:14
Operation Condor which was a rendition
00:20:16
kidnapping and assassination program
00:20:18
around the world murdered Orlando
00:20:22
latelier and Ronnie Moffett in
00:20:24
Washington DC the former train
00:20:26
Ambassador for ambassador friend of Jean
00:20:29
garces's um in 1976 on NC Row in
00:20:33
Washington DC that's exactly right so uh
00:20:37
these new laws that had come into place
00:20:39
uh facilitated a request for his
00:20:42
interrogation and and arrest um and this
00:20:45
was a transformational moment it was a
00:20:49
transformational moment for for Chileans
00:20:51
it was a transformational moment for
00:20:54
people in the United States it was a
00:20:55
transformational moment for the Human
00:20:57
Rights Movement um which became inspired
00:21:01
and what we call the Pino precedent or
00:21:03
the Pino effect now has led to
00:21:06
prosecutions of people like Alberto
00:21:07
fujimori in Peru and um Rios mon in
00:21:10
Guatemala and cases in Spain against the
00:21:13
murders of the Jesuits uh in El Salvador
00:21:17
just a a Cascade of of of H now in Sagal
00:21:21
the fortive efforts to hold the Pino of
00:21:24
the world accountable for their
00:21:26
atrocities so it couldn't have been a
00:21:29
more important uh fundamental event uh
00:21:32
in our in our recent history and you
00:21:35
know I I just want to take the
00:21:36
opportunity to be on your show and say
00:21:38
that Jean garas is a hero um and what
00:21:41
happened in Spain was a heroic heroic uh
00:21:44
effort um and the fact that there's this
00:21:47
straight line from 40 years ago to being
00:21:50
at the Lona to then being in Spain and
00:21:53
and and and being able to hold Pino
00:21:56
accountable um and create a very
00:21:58
different set of circumstances for the
00:21:59
dictators of the future is is is just a
00:22:02
tremendous achievement pet uh what has
00:22:06
been the US government uh response to
00:22:08
this concept of universal jurisdiction
00:22:11
well there's a bunch of issues in the
00:22:13
aftermath of Pino's arrest we in
00:22:15
Washington took advantage of pressing
00:22:17
the Clinton Administration to
00:22:19
declassify uh the the Deep the Deep uh
00:22:24
dark Holdings of the of the US
00:22:26
government on Chile the Pino era and
00:22:29
eventually the CIA operations in Chile
00:22:31
itself uh and the Clinton Administration
00:22:34
deserves a lot of credit people inside
00:22:35
that Administration uh despised Pino
00:22:39
some of them had been aende supporters
00:22:41
in their youth um and the president was
00:22:44
convinced to to order a special
00:22:45
declassification of 24,000 documents
00:22:48
including in the end 2,000 operational
00:22:51
CIA documents which we never would have
00:22:53
seen otherwise uh that recorded the the
00:22:56
US role in uh in Chile Nixon and
00:22:59
Kissinger's role in in undermining
00:23:01
democracy and supporting dictatorship so
00:23:03
this was the initial response of the
00:23:05
United States overall the United States
00:23:07
doesn't like the concept of universal
00:23:09
jurisdiction because they don't want
00:23:10
other countries to
00:23:12
prosecute us officials for atrocities
00:23:15
committed around the world and of course
00:23:17
we now have a whole team from the Bush
00:23:19
Administration who could easily be
00:23:21
prosecuted just as Pino was prose so how
00:23:23
are they affected when they go abroad
00:23:25
including President Bush former
00:23:26
President Bush well I mean uh certainly
00:23:29
there have been efforts made in Europe
00:23:31
to uh to question George Bush to
00:23:35
question Donald Rumsfeld there have been
00:23:37
we were with people last night Jan and I
00:23:40
uh from the center for constitutional
00:23:42
rights um Michael Ratner and others
00:23:44
whove tried to bring cases uh against uh
00:23:48
former Bush Administration officials for
00:23:50
torture for rendition for for death in
00:23:53
the name of fighting terrorism what do
00:23:55
you see could happen to Henry kiss well
00:23:58
Henry Kissinger is 991 years old uh and
00:24:01
let me just take the opportunity to say
00:24:02
that as Chileans are pushing their uh
00:24:06
their society to atone for what happened
00:24:08
40 years ago um the issue is whether
00:24:10
Kissinger will step up and uh and
00:24:12
acknowledge and and uh and apologize for
00:24:16
uh the crimes that he supported and
00:24:18
helped perpetrate uh in Chile he's the
00:24:21
last surviving member of that team
00:24:23
there's Kissinger and uh to some degree
00:24:26
bush have been what we call pade this is
00:24:30
a new verb in the Lexicon of uh the
00:24:32
human rights movement since Shan gar is
00:24:35
accomplishment in getting Pino arrested
00:24:37
they uh have faced the issue of when
00:24:39
they travel abroad will they be
00:24:41
subpoenaed and questioned um for uh
00:24:45
crimes that they supported participated
00:24:47
in or instigated and so you have a
00:24:50
different situation for people like
00:24:51
Henry Kissinger he he doesn't freely
00:24:53
travel abroad he now particularly after
00:24:55
P was arrested in 1998 he would send
00:24:58
emissaries to make sure there wasn't
00:24:59
going to be a problem he went to France
00:25:01
at one point in 1999 I think uh or 2000
00:25:06
and was served with a subpoena and
00:25:07
promptly left he was going to go to
00:25:09
Brazil to receive a huge prize and a
00:25:12
judge in Brazil said I'm going to
00:25:13
question him on Operation Condor and K
00:25:16
Kissinger cancelled his trip uh so and
00:25:19
Bush himself George Bush has also faced
00:25:22
uh to to some degree this issue I think
00:25:25
the question is you know as asan will
00:25:28
say um P seemed Untouchable for years
00:25:32
and years and years and then suddenly he
00:25:35
wasn't because of the hard work Jan
00:25:37
Gores what do you think should happen
00:25:38
with Henry Kissinger by the way I should
00:25:40
also just say for folks who are called
00:25:42
Juan in this country uh it is spelled
00:25:45
Juan gares but the catalonian form of
00:25:48
Juan is Jan um uh so Jan gares what
00:25:52
should happen with Henry
00:25:53
Kissinger what
00:25:56
uh uh some of the victims of those
00:25:59
crimes we are talking about filed in The
00:26:03
District Court of Washington DC a claim
00:26:08
against
00:26:09
Kissinger uh unfortunately the date was
00:26:13
not positive uh that was the day before
00:26:17
the 911 2001 so uh uh 13 years ago today
00:26:24
yes exactly and so uh this uh this claim
00:26:28
didn't didn't was not successful because
00:26:32
the The District Court uh said that the
00:26:36
US court of justice cannot review the
00:26:39
decisions taken by the state department
00:26:43
High officers even if those decisions
00:26:46
are related to crimes against humanity
00:26:49
and genocidal acts this decision
00:26:54
was was confirmed by the appeal court
00:26:58
and the supreme court of justice uh
00:27:00
didn't accept to review those decisions
00:27:04
I how I think that this is very
00:27:07
unfortunate uh the the leaders of the
00:27:11
United States
00:27:13
have extraordinary powers if they
00:27:17
accomplish or commit crimes against
00:27:19
humanity they should uh abroad using the
00:27:23
power of the United States to commit big
00:27:25
crimes abroad they should
00:27:28
made should be made accountable they
00:27:31
could they cannot be tragedy broad
00:27:33
because no country no cour in in the
00:27:36
world dares to open any serious criminal
00:27:42
case against the higher uh High officer
00:27:45
of the United States and if the US
00:27:48
courts say that because of the
00:27:50
separation of power they can no more
00:27:53
investigate those crimes the outcome is
00:27:55
absolute impunity and I think that is is
00:27:59
unacceptable and that is a danger for we
00:28:03
all and in fact uh you are talking about
00:28:06
this this this Pino case let me tell you
00:28:10
that I I am just following the path that
00:28:13
was open by the
00:28:15
US uh government in
00:28:18
1945 when the World War II was ending it
00:28:23
was a discussion among the leaders of
00:28:25
the United Nations
00:28:27
what to do with those big criminals that
00:28:30
use the power of the third right and for
00:28:35
committing massive crimes and then there
00:28:37
was a discussion for the prime minister
00:28:40
of Britain Churchill Dan was very clear
00:28:44
you put them against the
00:28:47
wall finish you kill them that is that
00:28:50
is all uh uh starting agree with that uh
00:28:56
but not
00:28:58
Rosevelt know the administration the
00:29:00
American Administration that said no no
00:29:04
these people should face a tribunal
00:29:08
where their kind should be exposed and
00:29:13
then there was the Newberg trial that is
00:29:16
the beginning of the current
00:29:18
international criminal law so the roots
00:29:20
of the international
00:29:23
laad presently uh in the United States
00:29:26
think a strategic are thinking for the
00:29:29
uh the world after World War II as you
00:29:32
talk about international law can I
00:29:34
digress for one minute before we talk
00:29:36
about the current election in Chile and
00:29:37
ask you about your thoughts on Syria
00:29:39
because what's often raised right now is
00:29:41
that it's a violation of 100-year-old
00:29:43
law about the use of chemical weapons
00:29:45
and President Obama Drew this red line
00:29:47
he says the International Community drew
00:29:49
it and the ban against the use of
00:29:50
chemical weapons what are your thoughts
00:29:52
on what should happen in Syria do you
00:29:54
think the US should uh respond on to
00:29:57
this though it's not completely the
00:29:59
facts are not in on exactly who did this
00:30:02
uh in Syria but should strike Syria
00:30:06
militarily well in my view the United
00:30:09
States Syria and the world is facing now
00:30:13
the the the consequences of bad
00:30:16
strategical options two years ago in
00:30:19
Libya according to the international
00:30:23
legal legal Norms the United n Nations
00:30:26
Charter
00:30:28
the legitimacy for the for using Force
00:30:32
against a sovereign government an
00:30:34
independent country is in the security
00:30:36
Council of the United Nations it's the
00:30:39
only organ that can take the decisions
00:30:42
and the United States ask the permission
00:30:45
to from the United Security Council to
00:30:48
protect the civilians of in the Eastern
00:30:50
side of liya against bombing by the G
00:30:54
government and the security Council
00:30:57
agree on that great and then an
00:31:01
exclusion Sone was created for
00:31:03
protecting the civilians what was a
00:31:05
mistake in my point of view they they
00:31:07
turn this authorization from the
00:31:10
security Council in a regime change
00:31:14
accepting to use this authorization from
00:31:17
the security Council to bomb all the
00:31:19
areas of Chile of Libya and permitting
00:31:23
the overthrow of the GFI regime then
00:31:27
the Russians and the Chinese that were
00:31:30
looking what has been done with the
00:31:32
authorization use force that they liia
00:31:36
they in my analysis said that is the
00:31:37
last time uh we will not accept that
00:31:41
once again that we give the
00:31:42
authorization for that and that is a
00:31:44
pretext for something that we didn't
00:31:46
authorize and that is the the the
00:31:49
tragedy for the Syrian Syrian people
00:31:52
since two years ago when the the
00:31:55
Security Council is blocked now
00:31:58
what I realize that is a proposal for
00:32:01
solving the the situation in Syria you
00:32:03
have here uh the position that has been
00:32:06
taken by the US executive and a great
00:32:11
skepticism in in other countries about
00:32:14
the users of force outside authorization
00:32:17
of the security Council legitimate force
00:32:20
and I realize that some governments for
00:32:22
example the German government is saying
00:32:25
that the people that is respons
00:32:27
responsible for these chemical attacks
00:32:29
should be made responsible in the
00:32:31
international criminal court of justice
00:32:34
and which the US has not signed on to
00:32:36
but the security Council can can order
00:32:40
that these people in Syria that has
00:32:43
committed this crime been sent to the
00:32:45
international criminal court this is a
00:32:47
legal solution and certainly the
00:32:50
Diplomatic possibilities are not
00:32:52
exhausted and I I consider that after
00:32:56
the experience in is uh the fiascos in
00:32:59
Iraq invasion and the answer to the
00:33:02
attack to New York invading another
00:33:05
country well look what happened here in
00:33:08
New York 10 years ago uh that was a
00:33:12
terrorist
00:33:13
attack uh to answer to this terrorist
00:33:16
attack there are several ways the option
00:33:18
was to invade the country make the
00:33:21
balance what is 10 years later the
00:33:23
number of
00:33:25
terrorists of gisha the theist that are
00:33:28
today and that were there I think that
00:33:31
this attack has multiplied the number of
00:33:33
people that are ready to commit new
00:33:36
crimes so uh I think that the use of
00:33:39
force should be done but through
00:33:42
legitimate means and the use of force
00:33:46
outside the legitimacy of international
00:33:48
law the side effects uh in this case
00:33:52
it's evident more negative than positive
00:33:54
that is my balance pet Cor uh turning
00:33:57
back to 73 can you talk about the role
00:33:59
of the CIA uh in supplying lists of of
00:34:03
dissidents to the Chilean
00:34:06
military there's some evidence although
00:34:09
it doesn't really show up in the
00:34:10
documents that we have it was discovered
00:34:12
by the senate committee led by senator
00:34:14
Frank Church a so-called Church
00:34:16
committee that investigated uh us
00:34:18
intervention in Chile in the mid 1970s
00:34:21
that the CIA funded a particular
00:34:23
Institute that uh Was preparing for a
00:34:26
coup that did compile lists of both
00:34:29
civilians and and people inside the the
00:34:32
aend government um that would need to be
00:34:36
uh taken care of if you will um in the
00:34:38
event of a coup um the CIA eventually
00:34:42
came in sent a team to help create the
00:34:46
Chilean uh secret police um Dena I was
00:34:50
just in Chile and there are very few
00:34:52
Dena documents available the Dena
00:34:55
disappeared their archiv just like they
00:34:57
disappeared so many victims the head of
00:34:59
Dina uh was arrested and well contr was
00:35:03
first prosecuted for the assassination
00:35:06
of Orlando latelier the former julan
00:35:07
ambassador to Washington and his
00:35:09
colleague Ronnie carpent Moffett and
00:35:11
then he was prosecuted again and again
00:35:14
and again um and he now has is in a
00:35:17
prison uh has been in a prison and has a
00:35:19
overall sentence of more than 200 years
00:35:22
um uh to serve but I was saying that the
00:35:24
CIA actually um sent a team to to help
00:35:28
uh advise Dina on infrastructure on
00:35:31
human resources on kind of the how you
00:35:33
do intelligence uh operations and one of
00:35:36
the things I I found when I was in Chile
00:35:38
two two weeks ago is that there's
00:35:40
actually a an a manual uh that the Dena
00:35:43
had on how to conduct intelligence that
00:35:47
appears to be uh completely translated
00:35:49
from from an old us manual from the
00:35:52
1950s and obviously somebody gave the
00:35:55
Dena that manual to to to use so there's
00:35:58
a a history here of the CIA being
00:36:02
involved with Chilean impression up to
00:36:04
the point when Pino sends his his his
00:36:08
assassins to Washington DC to commit an
00:36:10
act of international terrorism uh we're
00:36:13
we're approaching 911 tomorrow the
00:36:15
latell assassination car bombing in
00:36:18
downtown Washington DC was the first Act
00:36:21
of state sponsored International
00:36:22
terrorism in the capital city of
00:36:24
Washington um very quickly we just have
00:36:26
a minute to go the current election
00:36:28
that's going on right now in Chile is
00:36:30
remarkable you have two women one the
00:36:32
former president Michelle bachelet right
00:36:33
two daughters of generals one may have
00:36:35
been responsible for the torture and
00:36:38
death of the other Michelle bachelet's
00:36:40
father killed and they were childhood
00:36:42
best friends now running against each
00:36:44
other well it's a historic election
00:36:46
because you have two women contending
00:36:47
for the presidency it's the first in
00:36:49
Latin America maybe the first in the
00:36:51
world uh where two women are the leading
00:36:53
contenders for to be president and
00:36:55
because of their backgrounds of course
00:36:57
and because of the Confluence of the
00:36:59
40th anniversary arriving tomorrow um uh
00:37:02
in the middle of this election uh the
00:37:04
the history of the of the coup is kind
00:37:06
of front and center uh in the debate uh
00:37:09
o over over the issues and the issue of
00:37:12
atoning apologizing for taking
00:37:15
responsibility for those who supported
00:37:17
Pino it has suddenly become politically
00:37:20
expedient to to apologize from the right
00:37:22
wiers uh and people even pushing Evelyn
00:37:25
mat to apologize for her father to
00:37:27
apologize for her family for their
00:37:29
participation uh in the repression um
00:37:32
and um and this is a sea change
00:37:35
politically uh in Chile Where the
00:37:37
country has been divided but now really
00:37:40
um it's there's just very little space
00:37:42
uh for anybody to have supported the the
00:37:44
coup anymore and feel like they could
00:37:46
ever advanc politically in Chile the
00:37:48
population has changed the the the the
00:37:52
commemorations around the 40th
00:37:54
anniversary which is tomorrow have been
00:37:55
overwhelming in the press and the media
00:37:57
cultural events a beautiful concert
00:38:00
called Victor seen Victor uh on Victor
00:38:02
harr's music just took place last week
00:38:05
um it's it's it was wonderful and
00:38:08
inspirational to see and it's a large
00:38:10
part due to the the effort of chain and
00:38:13
the effort of the world Community to
00:38:14
make sure uh that the coup and its
00:38:17
atrocities were
00:38:18
repudiated well I want to thank you both
00:38:20
for being with us Peter corn BL and Jan
00:38:22
garus um Jan garus by the way is also
00:38:25
winner of the right livelihood award and
00:38:27
was a gathering in bond a few years ago
00:38:30
when we also interviewed him a gathering
00:38:32
of about 75 right livelihood Award
00:38:34
winners won that award it was awarded in
00:38:37
the Swedish Parliament uh Jan garus
00:38:39
again um uh the closest adviser to
00:38:42
president aende president aende died in
00:38:45
the palace September 11th 1973 40 years
00:38:48
ago Jan garcis left the palace and from
00:38:51
that point to today has been not only
00:38:54
telling the world about what happened
00:38:56
but holding the forces that deposed
00:38:59
Salvador yende accountable thank you so
00:39:01
much both for being with
00:39:04
[Music]
00:39:06
us
