Col. Jacques Baud: EU’s INSANE Move Against Iran Could DESTROY Europe!

00:59:58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjDaAktX_6U

Sintesi

TLDRDans cette discussion, Carl Jack Boy analyse les récentes attaques américaines et israéliennes contre l'Iran, appelées "Midnight Hammer" et "Rising Lion". Il souligne que ces attaques n'ont pas causé de dommages significatifs, malgré les affirmations de Trump. L'intervenant critique la stratégie de Trump, la qualifiant de plus axée sur la communication que sur des résultats concrets. Il aborde également le droit d'Iran à enrichir de l'uranium, affirmant que l'Iran pourrait envisager de quitter le TNP en raison du non-respect des accords par les États-Unis. La discussion met en lumière la perception croissante que les actions des États-Unis et d'Israël sapent l'ordre international basé sur le droit, et souligne la nécessité d'une prise de décision rationnelle dans les affaires internationales.

Punti di forza

  • 🇺🇸 Les attaques américaines n'ont pas causé de dommages significatifs.
  • 🤔 Trump utilise la communication pour embellir les résultats des opérations.
  • ⚖️ L'Iran a le droit d'enrichir de l'uranium selon le TNP.
  • 🔄 L'Iran envisage de quitter le TNP en raison des sanctions.
  • 📉 Les actions des États-Unis sapent l'ordre international basé sur le droit.
  • 🤝 La Russie et la Chine soutiennent l'Iran contre l'Occident.
  • 🛑 La prise de décision irrationnelle est un problème majeur.
  • 📊 L'IAEA est critiquée pour son efficacité dans la surveillance.
  • 💬 La perception de la communauté internationale est en train de changer.
  • 🔍 La nécessité d'une approche factuelle dans les décisions internationales.

Linea temporale

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    Introduction de Carl Jack Boy, qui discute des récentes attaques américaines et israéliennes contre l'Iran, en soulignant le scepticisme au sein de l'administration Trump concernant l'intervention américaine.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Analyse de la stratégie de Trump, qui semble plus axée sur la communication et le spectacle que sur des résultats concrets, avec des comparaisons à un vendeur de voitures d'occasion.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Évaluation des conséquences militaires des attaques, suggérant que l'Iran a anticipé ces frappes et a évacué des équipements sensibles, entraînant des dommages limités.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Discussion sur l'impact des attaques sur les négociations diplomatiques en cours, qualifiant ces actions de coercitives et contraires aux principes de négociation civilisée.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Critique de l'utilisation des institutions internationales, comme l'AIEA, par les États-Unis pour justifier des actions militaires, sapant ainsi l'ordre juridique international.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Examen des droits d'enrichissement de l'Iran selon le TNP et la JCPOA, et des conséquences de la sortie des États-Unis de cet accord.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    Réflexion sur la perception erronée de l'Iran comme un pays cherchant à développer des armes nucléaires, alors qu'il revendique son droit à l'enrichissement d'uranium pour des fins civiles.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    Analyse des implications de l'attaque sur les relations entre l'Iran, la Russie et la Chine, et comment cela pourrait renforcer leur coopération contre l'Occident.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:45:00

    Critique de la désinformation et de la manipulation des faits par les dirigeants occidentaux concernant les ambitions nucléaires de l'Iran.

  • 00:45:00 - 00:50:00

    Discussion sur la dégradation de l'ordre international basé sur le droit, et comment cela affecte la gouvernance et la prise de décision dans les pays occidentaux.

  • 00:50:00 - 00:59:58

    Conclusion sur la nécessité d'une réflexion critique sur les actions militaires et les décisions politiques, et l'importance de revenir à une approche fondée sur des faits et des principes éthiques.

Mostra di più

Mappa mentale

Video Domande e Risposte

  • Quelles ont été les récentes attaques contre l'Iran ?

    Les attaques américaines ont été appelées "Midnight Hammer" et les attaques israéliennes "Rising Lion".

  • Quel a été l'impact des attaques américaines sur l'Iran ?

    Les médias iraniens affirment que les attaques n'ont pas causé de dommages significatifs.

  • Comment Trump a-t-il décrit les attaques ?

    Trump a qualifié les attaques d'excellentes et a affirmé qu'elles avaient détruit tout.

  • Quel est le droit d'Iran concernant l'enrichissement de l'uranium ?

    L'Iran a le droit inaliénable d'enrichir de l'uranium selon le TNP.

  • Pourquoi l'Iran envisage-t-il de quitter le TNP ?

    L'Iran pourrait quitter le TNP en raison du non-respect des accords par les États-Unis et des sanctions imposées.

  • Quel est le rôle de l'IAEA dans cette situation ?

    L'IAEA est censée surveiller les installations nucléaires, mais son efficacité a été remise en question.

  • Comment la communauté internationale réagit-elle aux actions des États-Unis et d'Israël ?

    Il y a une perception croissante que les actions des États-Unis et d'Israël sapent l'ordre international basé sur le droit.

  • Quel est le sentiment en Iran après les attaques ?

    Il y a un sentiment croissant en Iran que la seule façon de traiter avec l'Occident est de devenir plus fort.

  • Comment la Russie et la Chine perçoivent-elles la situation ?

    La Russie et la Chine semblent soutenir l'Iran dans sa lutte contre les forces occidentales.

  • Quel est le problème fondamental selon l'intervenant ?

    Le problème fondamental est la dégradation de l'ordre international basé sur le droit et la prise de décisions irrationnelles.

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Scorrimento automatico:
  • 00:00:05
    Hi everybody. Today's Monday, June 23rd,
  • 00:00:08
    2025 and our friend Carl Jack Boy is
  • 00:00:12
    back with us. Welcome back, Carl. Thank
  • 00:00:14
    you for inviting me again. Happy to be
  • 00:00:16
    back. Thank you, Carl. I want to start
  • 00:00:20
    with the American attack on Iran, which
  • 00:00:24
    was called two attacks on Iran recently.
  • 00:00:27
    Israeli attack on a rising lion. They
  • 00:00:29
    call it rising lion and the American
  • 00:00:31
    attack midnight hammer.
  • 00:00:34
    From what we've seen so far from Iranian
  • 00:00:37
    media, from the analysts, they're saying
  • 00:00:39
    that the United States attack on Iran
  • 00:00:41
    was not has not achieved that much the
  • 00:00:45
    way that Donald Trump in the aftermath
  • 00:00:46
    of the attack said they we these were
  • 00:00:49
    excellent attacks. We destroyed
  • 00:00:51
    everything. your take on what has
  • 00:00:54
    happened in the mind of the Trump
  • 00:00:56
    administration or maybe the strategy
  • 00:00:58
    behind this this sort of attack uh the
  • 00:01:02
    United States attack on Iran.
  • 00:01:05
    Well, I I think first of all, we have to
  • 00:01:09
    understand how I mean the mechanics
  • 00:01:13
    within the um the Trump administration
  • 00:01:17
    because a lot of people in the United
  • 00:01:20
    States at large, but also within the
  • 00:01:22
    administration is in fact skeptical
  • 00:01:24
    about the uh US intervention in Iran.
  • 00:01:29
    Um,
  • 00:01:31
    and to be honest, the problem with Trump
  • 00:01:34
    is everything is about talking.
  • 00:01:37
    Everything is kind of a PR thing. And
  • 00:01:40
    uh, when when there's an operation is
  • 00:01:42
    always brilliant, excellent,
  • 00:01:44
    magnificent, and there's America the
  • 00:01:48
    best and nobody can do it better and
  • 00:01:50
    think like this. Uh, so that sounds to
  • 00:01:54
    me a little bit like the guy who sells
  • 00:01:58
    a a used car, a secondhand car, you
  • 00:02:00
    know, so everything is beautiful and all
  • 00:02:03
    that, even if the content is just crap.
  • 00:02:06
    And that's that's a little bit how I I
  • 00:02:10
    read uh Donald Trump. There's a lot of
  • 00:02:14
    show, but not much content. And we have
  • 00:02:18
    seen that not just in that particular
  • 00:02:20
    case with Iran, but also in the whole
  • 00:02:23
    issue of the tariffs and the war in
  • 00:02:26
    Ukraine. He was ready to solve the
  • 00:02:29
    problem in 24 hours in in 10 days or
  • 00:02:32
    whatever. And he had the solution. He
  • 00:02:35
    had the most brilliant experts for the
  • 00:02:37
    tariffs that would bring uh the America
  • 00:02:40
    first again within within days. And
  • 00:02:44
    finally we notice that he had in fact
  • 00:02:48
    probably
  • 00:02:50
    ideas probably an idea about but an
  • 00:02:52
    objective but he has no strategy to
  • 00:02:55
    achieve the objective. He doesn't know
  • 00:02:57
    how to achieve what he wants to achieve
  • 00:03:00
    and therefore everything he does fails.
  • 00:03:05
    And my personal view in in that
  • 00:03:09
    particular case of the midnight hammer
  • 00:03:12
    operation,
  • 00:03:14
    my feeling is that he did it and I'm I'm
  • 00:03:19
    convinced he doesn't like Iran as he
  • 00:03:22
    doesn't like Russia, as he doesn't like
  • 00:03:25
    China. But at the same time, I think he
  • 00:03:29
    went into that operation reluctantly
  • 00:03:32
    in my view. And if you study the
  • 00:03:36
    operation, sometimes you have the
  • 00:03:38
    feeling that
  • 00:03:40
    it was an operation without a real
  • 00:03:42
    objective.
  • 00:03:44
    And therefore
  • 00:03:45
    they did the minimal service if you
  • 00:03:49
    want. They were probably under pressure
  • 00:03:52
    by Israel and the Israeli community or
  • 00:03:58
    the Israeli supporters or you can call
  • 00:04:01
    it as you want the lobby. Israel lobby
  • 00:04:04
    in the US and things like that and you
  • 00:04:06
    have many within the administration
  • 00:04:08
    including people like Lindsey Graham and
  • 00:04:11
    Richard Blumenal and that kind of people
  • 00:04:15
    and probably felt obliged to do
  • 00:04:18
    something and even it's this something
  • 00:04:22
    was a very expensive something
  • 00:04:25
    I'm not sure it was designed to have a
  • 00:04:29
    definitive success
  • 00:04:32
    And it was announced
  • 00:04:36
    days before at least the Iranians could
  • 00:04:39
    anticipate that this would happen. A lot
  • 00:04:41
    of people said this will happen and even
  • 00:04:44
    Simu Hirs wrote an article saying this
  • 00:04:47
    would happen during the weekend.
  • 00:04:48
    Therefore, there were a lot of
  • 00:04:50
    fornowledge about this and apparently as
  • 00:04:54
    we can see from satellite pictures uh
  • 00:04:57
    especially in fordo I have been I've
  • 00:04:59
    seen the the the pictures u the the
  • 00:05:03
    Iranians have managed to get most
  • 00:05:08
    sensitive equipment and even personnel
  • 00:05:11
    uh away from from the insulation. And so
  • 00:05:16
    basically what the Americans did was to
  • 00:05:20
    to attack some kind of empty structures.
  • 00:05:24
    Uh although to be honest we don't know
  • 00:05:28
    exactly what the the extent of the
  • 00:05:31
    damage is. Uh there are some uh
  • 00:05:34
    information coming from Iran but I don't
  • 00:05:38
    know understandably uh the Iranian
  • 00:05:41
    government will play down some damages
  • 00:05:45
    and the USIsraeli will
  • 00:05:49
    exaggerate the success. So I don't know
  • 00:05:52
    exactly where we stand. In any case,
  • 00:05:56
    um what we can assess from the
  • 00:06:00
    information we have is that there are
  • 00:06:03
    not significant damage caused and you
  • 00:06:07
    know we also have to remember that Iran
  • 00:06:10
    has been prepared for such an
  • 00:06:12
    eventuality for decades. I mean they
  • 00:06:15
    they are they are literally decades that
  • 00:06:18
    the Americans are threatening attacking
  • 00:06:21
    and attacking these eur nuclear
  • 00:06:24
    facilities. There have been some
  • 00:06:26
    attempts by the way by the Israeli in
  • 00:06:28
    the past. Therefore uh we know that it
  • 00:06:31
    could be at and I can assume that the
  • 00:06:34
    Iranians are not stupid. uh they
  • 00:06:38
    probably put their facilities deep
  • 00:06:41
    enough in order to uh avoid even those
  • 00:06:45
    deep penetr penetrating bombs the um
  • 00:06:51
    JBU GBU uh uh 57 or something like that.
  • 00:06:55
    I may be wrong on that. But in any case,
  • 00:06:58
    those uh um deep penetrating bombs
  • 00:07:02
    uh which go up to probably 10 20 m deep
  • 00:07:07
    and my view is that probably the
  • 00:07:09
    Iranians have anticipated that and put
  • 00:07:12
    the facilities deeper than 20 m. Well,
  • 00:07:14
    let's put it that way. Um and that's
  • 00:07:17
    probably what we have here. the
  • 00:07:21
    so
  • 00:07:23
    the that's that's the military side of
  • 00:07:25
    it but there is something more
  • 00:07:28
    consequential I think that we have to
  • 00:07:31
    understand is that
  • 00:07:33
    uh as it happened with the Israeli
  • 00:07:37
    attack the rising lion on the 13th of
  • 00:07:40
    June
  • 00:07:42
    we have now an attack that happens in
  • 00:07:44
    the in the middle of a process a
  • 00:07:46
    negotiation process
  • 00:07:49
    uh on 13th of June. That was the process
  • 00:07:51
    uh that was due to happen or in in the
  • 00:07:55
    process of O in Oman and this time it
  • 00:07:59
    was the process with the uh European
  • 00:08:02
    troa um so I mean the the British, the
  • 00:08:06
    German and the French uh in Geneva
  • 00:08:10
    about the same topic and this was a
  • 00:08:14
    process in Geneva. So in both cases the
  • 00:08:18
    Israeli and the US have shortcircuited
  • 00:08:21
    a diplomatic process that
  • 00:08:24
    could have resulted or not. The think is
  • 00:08:28
    here are two things. First of all the
  • 00:08:31
    idea of striking Iran during the process
  • 00:08:35
    is some kind of mafia like or terrorist
  • 00:08:41
    because we can call it that way too. uh
  • 00:08:44
    a way to impose a solution. Meaning that
  • 00:08:48
    this is what we want to achieve and as
  • 00:08:51
    long as you don't agree with that
  • 00:08:54
    will strike
  • 00:08:56
    uh will strike you and um this is not
  • 00:09:00
    the way you do um negotiations.
  • 00:09:06
    the the this idea of using the military
  • 00:09:09
    force to coersse
  • 00:09:11
    one party into a solution is in my view
  • 00:09:15
    not what we should uh do especially when
  • 00:09:19
    we talk about the so-called civilized
  • 00:09:22
    world or you know with the rule of law
  • 00:09:24
    and all these kind of things. So that's
  • 00:09:27
    the first thing. The second thing is
  • 00:09:29
    that
  • 00:09:32
    all the
  • 00:09:34
    installation of facilities that have
  • 00:09:36
    been stroken by uh the Israelis on one
  • 00:09:40
    hand even the Israelis also attacked
  • 00:09:42
    some civilian targets. So I'm talking
  • 00:09:44
    about the nuclear related facilities
  • 00:09:49
    uh those stroke by the Israelis and
  • 00:09:51
    those uh stroke by the Americans where
  • 00:09:54
    all facilities that have been inspected
  • 00:09:57
    by the IAA
  • 00:09:59
    meaning that we have a institutional
  • 00:10:05
    international
  • 00:10:06
    law sanctioned body that has access to
  • 00:10:11
    the facilities who knows
  • 00:10:14
    um what's the status of things there and
  • 00:10:20
    still we consider that these the IAA in
  • 00:10:26
    that case has not fulfilled its
  • 00:10:30
    task by doubling down with some military
  • 00:10:34
    action
  • 00:10:36
    and in my view this is a way somehow to
  • 00:10:40
    sabotage
  • 00:10:42
    the complete
  • 00:10:43
    international law system and law and
  • 00:10:46
    monitoring system. And this is um in
  • 00:10:51
    fact the US has constantly
  • 00:10:55
    shortcircuited
  • 00:10:56
    international institutions
  • 00:10:58
    in fact sabotaged the work of
  • 00:11:01
    institutional institutions.
  • 00:11:04
    uh we can even talk about the ICC for
  • 00:11:06
    instance that uh is the the US is not
  • 00:11:11
    even party of that but they sanctioned
  • 00:11:13
    the ICC because they uh they had this
  • 00:11:19
    arrest warrant against Netanyahu for
  • 00:11:21
    instance. So we see that we use those
  • 00:11:26
    international institutions
  • 00:11:29
    not as a tool for regulation of the
  • 00:11:36
    life I would say the international life
  • 00:11:39
    or international relations
  • 00:11:41
    but as a way as a a leverage to punish
  • 00:11:46
    or not the people we want to punish and
  • 00:11:51
    we don't take into account the
  • 00:11:53
    stabilizing effect of these institutions
  • 00:11:57
    because IAA is precisely there to avoid
  • 00:12:01
    military operations avoid such operation
  • 00:12:05
    that midnight hammer.
  • 00:12:08
    Therefore there is something
  • 00:12:10
    conceptually wrong in all that we should
  • 00:12:14
    use military force when all the rest has
  • 00:12:18
    failed. you know, not as a a substitute,
  • 00:12:23
    a a let's say a um convenient substitute
  • 00:12:27
    in order to impose a solution
  • 00:12:31
    as as the the US does. Same thing with
  • 00:12:35
    the the the NPT for instance. You know,
  • 00:12:38
    it's it's very strange that
  • 00:12:41
    and and we'll probably talk about it
  • 00:12:44
    when we talk about the consequences of
  • 00:12:46
    what hap is happening.
  • 00:12:50
    But
  • 00:12:52
    Iran is sanctioned because it has signed
  • 00:12:56
    the NPT.
  • 00:12:59
    Well, Israel can allow itself whatever
  • 00:13:01
    it wants because it didn't sign the NPT.
  • 00:13:05
    So there's a an essential contradiction
  • 00:13:07
    here. Um a international
  • 00:13:12
    uh uh lawbased order that works only for
  • 00:13:16
    some and not for others.
  • 00:13:19
    And this is not the way we we can we can
  • 00:13:23
    manage international relations. You
  • 00:13:25
    know, it's it's exactly the same as if
  • 00:13:28
    in a country you have people who for
  • 00:13:31
    some reason can escape the law
  • 00:13:36
    and therefore make their own law to
  • 00:13:39
    some, you know, everybody would see that
  • 00:13:43
    as unjust
  • 00:13:46
    and everybody was that would see that as
  • 00:13:49
    a disruption of the um rule of law.
  • 00:13:54
    So why do we accept that
  • 00:13:57
    in international relations
  • 00:14:00
    uh and we don't when it comes to
  • 00:14:02
    national laws. So there is something
  • 00:14:05
    distorted here and I think what the
  • 00:14:07
    Americans have done here is just to
  • 00:14:12
    accentuate this problem this failure of
  • 00:14:17
    uh international law base order. Of
  • 00:14:21
    course, this is replaced today by the
  • 00:14:23
    what we have discussed many times on
  • 00:14:25
    your channel by the international
  • 00:14:27
    rulesbased order that in fact say well
  • 00:14:31
    it's not a law that is the the the unit
  • 00:14:35
    of measure but it's just the rules that
  • 00:14:38
    we have decided
  • 00:14:41
    and that brings me to something that I
  • 00:14:45
    have already mentioned on your channel
  • 00:14:47
    uh and again I I come from my background
  • 00:14:52
    is strategic intelligence. Strategic
  • 00:14:54
    intelligence
  • 00:14:56
    is
  • 00:14:58
    the intelligence that is provided to the
  • 00:15:01
    strategic decision makers
  • 00:15:04
    in my case was the Swiss government,
  • 00:15:08
    Swiss general staff, things like this.
  • 00:15:10
    So when you you come with an assessment
  • 00:15:12
    of the situation, you know that this
  • 00:15:14
    assessment cannot just be a fantasy or
  • 00:15:18
    your opinion or think like that. It has
  • 00:15:21
    to be factbased because based on this
  • 00:15:25
    assessment people will take decisions.
  • 00:15:30
    Now what we have seen last week is is
  • 00:15:35
    quite interesting because as we have
  • 00:15:37
    discussed I think that was last week
  • 00:15:41
    that the
  • 00:15:44
    US intelligence community has assessed
  • 00:15:47
    in March I mean in its annual uh threat
  • 00:15:51
    assessment that was published in the end
  • 00:15:53
    of March this year. They assessed that
  • 00:15:57
    the um
  • 00:16:00
    the uh the Iran had no nuclear bombs and
  • 00:16:06
    had not even made a decision to have
  • 00:16:08
    one.
  • 00:16:10
    And when Donald Trump as he was flying
  • 00:16:14
    back from the G7 summit to the US, he
  • 00:16:20
    was asked by a journalist uh
  • 00:16:24
    how he would assess what Tulsi Gabbard
  • 00:16:27
    said as DNI. She she was of course
  • 00:16:30
    presenting the assessment of the intern
  • 00:16:33
    in intelligence community and he said I
  • 00:16:36
    don't care what to think about says I
  • 00:16:41
    know that Iran has a bomb something like
  • 00:16:43
    that so meaning that we are now in
  • 00:16:47
    something which is quite odd especially
  • 00:16:50
    when we talk about the rule of law when
  • 00:16:53
    we talk about uh rational decision
  • 00:16:56
    making factbased decision decision
  • 00:16:58
    making and things like this. We have the
  • 00:17:02
    leader of one of the biggest country in
  • 00:17:05
    the world that decides not on the base
  • 00:17:09
    of the institutions
  • 00:17:12
    that are precisely designed
  • 00:17:16
    and equipped and trained to make
  • 00:17:19
    assessment of the situation.
  • 00:17:22
    But he bas his decision on its own guts
  • 00:17:26
    feeling.
  • 00:17:29
    So we are back in the in the in the 17th
  • 00:17:33
    century or something like that in Europe
  • 00:17:36
    when the kings were inspired by God in
  • 00:17:39
    their decision.
  • 00:17:42
    This is exactly what triggered the
  • 00:17:46
    various revolutions that we had in
  • 00:17:48
    Europe that led that that were in fact
  • 00:17:54
    uh uh prompted by the so-called
  • 00:17:56
    enlightenment period. Enlightenment
  • 00:17:59
    means that you and you you uh enlighten
  • 00:18:02
    the decision meaning your decision
  • 00:18:06
    becomes based on facts based on national
  • 00:18:10
    interest based on something that
  • 00:18:13
    concrete that you can document that you
  • 00:18:15
    can assess that not just on uh uh God's
  • 00:18:21
    inspiration. I mean God must inspire us
  • 00:18:24
    in the sense that it should guide or uh
  • 00:18:28
    let's say uh
  • 00:18:31
    or pass in the sense of the ethics of
  • 00:18:35
    the morale of the the sense of justice
  • 00:18:40
    and all that but when it comes to
  • 00:18:42
    concrete decision this must be based on
  • 00:18:45
    facts you know on the reality of the
  • 00:18:48
    facts and that's exactly what we that's
  • 00:18:50
    why we had all the revolution between
  • 00:18:53
    the 17th and and and
  • 00:18:56
    18th century in Europe. Well, when we
  • 00:19:00
    listen to Trump, we are back to these
  • 00:19:03
    years
  • 00:19:05
    and that's extremely uh that's something
  • 00:19:09
    that is um a source of concern to me. We
  • 00:19:14
    have seen that by the way in in the last
  • 00:19:17
    three years when it comes to the
  • 00:19:20
    conflict in Ukraine and Russia Russia
  • 00:19:23
    Russia Russia everything is responsible.
  • 00:19:26
    I mean, you you even before the you
  • 00:19:28
    probably didn't hear that, but
  • 00:19:32
    the
  • 00:19:33
    before the Olympic Games in Paris,
  • 00:19:37
    uh, some noticed that in the beds of the
  • 00:19:40
    hotels in Paris, you had kind of an
  • 00:19:43
    infection of insects
  • 00:19:46
    and they were proliferating in Paris.
  • 00:19:48
    Don't ask me why. And so I mean the the
  • 00:19:51
    French government found why it was Putin
  • 00:19:54
    who came with the insects in the in the
  • 00:19:57
    f in the French hotel bedrooms. You know
  • 00:19:59
    that we we are this is beyond
  • 00:20:03
    rationality
  • 00:20:05
    and
  • 00:20:07
    of course this this has become a a
  • 00:20:11
    subject of of uh
  • 00:20:15
    laughing. I mean everybody laughs at
  • 00:20:16
    this in France but the government said
  • 00:20:19
    it seriously not as a joke.
  • 00:20:22
    So we are in a period and I think
  • 00:20:27
    again as it comes just to talk in on TV
  • 00:20:30
    and all that that's funny and we can
  • 00:20:33
    laugh about it no problem. when it
  • 00:20:36
    translates into military action,
  • 00:20:39
    bombing, bombing individuals, killing
  • 00:20:42
    people and all that, that's no longer
  • 00:20:45
    funny. But the decision making process
  • 00:20:48
    remains the same. And that is something
  • 00:20:51
    that should worry us as citizens
  • 00:20:54
    regardless where we are because as we
  • 00:20:57
    can notice especially in the western
  • 00:20:58
    world decision making is guided by this
  • 00:21:03
    kind of um
  • 00:21:06
    irrational
  • 00:21:07
    way of thinking. I mean again this is we
  • 00:21:12
    we are managing things by guts feeling
  • 00:21:15
    and not by proper intellectual
  • 00:21:19
    assessment of facts and that's something
  • 00:21:22
    we cannot accept
  • 00:21:24
    you know and we see that this kind of
  • 00:21:28
    extremely
  • 00:21:29
    poor decision making is then must be uh
  • 00:21:35
    uh
  • 00:21:37
    accompanied by censorship
  • 00:21:40
    because you have to prevent any uh uh
  • 00:21:45
    other kind of rational assessment to
  • 00:21:48
    interfere with with what so I think this
  • 00:21:52
    is something that this uh this crisis
  • 00:21:54
    reveals uh beyond all the the facts we
  • 00:21:58
    can see this is the irrationality of
  • 00:22:00
    decision making and this is the
  • 00:22:03
    endangering of the uh international
  • 00:22:07
    order that we have established after
  • 00:22:10
    World War II and the purpose of having
  • 00:22:13
    an international law-based order was
  • 00:22:16
    precisely to avoid this kind of decision
  • 00:22:19
    making that led to World War II in fact
  • 00:22:24
    and we are close to that today. So this
  • 00:22:28
    is something that is that worries me uh
  • 00:22:31
    considerably and we see that the
  • 00:22:34
    intelligence services apparently are not
  • 00:22:38
    strong enough or maybe convincing enough
  • 00:22:43
    in order to influence the decision
  • 00:22:45
    making.
  • 00:22:47
    Um and what I have also noticed when I
  • 00:22:51
    studied the covert wars in Ukraine is
  • 00:22:54
    that in fact we are slightly moving into
  • 00:22:57
    another direction that the uh
  • 00:23:00
    intelligence structures are in fact used
  • 00:23:05
    to justify
  • 00:23:07
    the wrongdoing somehow and instead of
  • 00:23:11
    using intelligence I mean in a country
  • 00:23:14
    in a working in a functional country.
  • 00:23:17
    Intelligence should provide the
  • 00:23:22
    ultimate information that the the
  • 00:23:24
    information which is the most factually
  • 00:23:28
    based information. That's that's the
  • 00:23:32
    purpose of the intelligence. This is the
  • 00:23:34
    purpose. This is the central point of
  • 00:23:37
    intelligence.
  • 00:23:38
    I remind you that intelligence the word
  • 00:23:41
    intelligence comes from Latin intelle
  • 00:23:45
    which means to understand. So
  • 00:23:48
    intelligence is not about killing people
  • 00:23:50
    topping government and all that even if
  • 00:23:52
    they also do that but the the essential
  • 00:23:55
    purpose is to understand the situation
  • 00:23:57
    and to understand it properly.
  • 00:24:00
    But today we misuse
  • 00:24:05
    the reputation of intelligence services
  • 00:24:09
    by distorting the facts and trying to uh
  • 00:24:13
    use the intelligence organization in
  • 00:24:16
    order to justify a distortion of facts
  • 00:24:19
    because the intelligence when you want
  • 00:24:22
    to be convincing you say well the
  • 00:24:25
    intelligence services told me that even
  • 00:24:27
    the CIA said that no that Because the
  • 00:24:30
    intelligence should be the absolute
  • 00:24:33
    baseline when it comes to the quality of
  • 00:24:37
    information.
  • 00:24:38
    But now we are misusing that. And this
  • 00:24:41
    is exactly what we have seen recently.
  • 00:24:44
    The intelligence structures were not
  • 00:24:47
    listened to. and and that's something
  • 00:24:51
    that also indicates
  • 00:24:54
    a a serious flaw in the management in
  • 00:25:00
    the governance of our countries at
  • 00:25:02
    large.
  • 00:25:04
    So these are beyond the
  • 00:25:09
    uh military result or the bombing and
  • 00:25:13
    casualties and all that beyond that
  • 00:25:16
    that's what I think is something we
  • 00:25:19
    should be worried about again uh uh it
  • 00:25:23
    doesn't exclude the rest but a lot of
  • 00:25:26
    people have already commented on on the
  • 00:25:28
    destruction of of infrastructure and all
  • 00:25:31
    that and all that is true and all that.
  • 00:25:33
    I don't want to uh uh comment on that.
  • 00:25:36
    But there are other factors that we need
  • 00:25:39
    to take into consideration. This is the
  • 00:25:42
    um the decay of our governance systems
  • 00:25:46
    in the west.
  • 00:25:49
    You know,
  • 00:25:52
    Colonel, in Iran,
  • 00:25:55
    we know that Iranian foreign minister
  • 00:25:57
    right now is in Russia talking with the
  • 00:25:59
    Russian president. And in Iran, what's
  • 00:26:02
    going on? They're talking about the
  • 00:26:05
    communication with IAA. They want to
  • 00:26:07
    stop this communication. They want to
  • 00:26:09
    get out of NPT.
  • 00:26:12
    And the American strike on Iran didn't
  • 00:26:15
    achieve because they said that Iran has
  • 00:26:18
    400 kilogram of enriched uranium that
  • 00:26:21
    that is able that by this amount Iran is
  • 00:26:25
    able to produce nuclear weapons.
  • 00:26:28
    No sign of destroying any of this. Even
  • 00:26:32
    with the nuclear facilities, they have
  • 00:26:35
    emptied everything inside the inside the
  • 00:26:38
    facility.
  • 00:26:41
    Do you think that
  • 00:26:44
    this would somehow bring a new sort of
  • 00:26:49
    confrontation between east and the west
  • 00:26:53
    because I don't see Russia said what the
  • 00:26:58
    president of Russia said during the
  • 00:27:00
    international
  • 00:27:04
    they had a an a a a conference in St.
  • 00:27:08
    Petersburg, the international econ
  • 00:27:10
    economic forum in St. Petersburg,
  • 00:27:14
    Vladimir Putin said that Russia and Iran
  • 00:27:16
    are fighting the same forces
  • 00:27:19
    and today in his meeting with the
  • 00:27:21
    Iranian foreign minister said we are in
  • 00:27:24
    together in this fight.
  • 00:27:27
    What is going on when it comes to the
  • 00:27:31
    mindset of Russia, China and Iran? right
  • 00:27:34
    now Iran it seems that this somehow
  • 00:27:38
    they're feeling that the only way to
  • 00:27:40
    deal with the west is to be stronger to
  • 00:27:43
    go against them. Your take on that?
  • 00:27:47
    Well, first of all, we have to we have
  • 00:27:49
    to talk about these um 400 kilograms of
  • 00:27:53
    enriched uranium and things like this
  • 00:27:55
    because
  • 00:27:57
    in the JCPOA I mean first of all uh Iran
  • 00:28:03
    has an inalienable right to enrich
  • 00:28:07
    uranium. This is stated as such in the
  • 00:28:12
    non-prololiferation treaty and the JCPOA
  • 00:28:16
    based it one of the his article on this
  • 00:28:21
    particular right uh um specified in the
  • 00:28:26
    nonar nonp proliferation treaty meaning
  • 00:28:30
    that Iran has the right to enrich
  • 00:28:33
    uranium. Now the enrament process
  • 00:28:36
    cannot be stopped when you start it. And
  • 00:28:40
    according to the GCPOA,
  • 00:28:44
    Iran was allowed to enrich uranium to a
  • 00:28:47
    certain level and to have um to sell
  • 00:28:51
    this I mean the because these enrich
  • 00:28:54
    uranium for use in Iran for domestic
  • 00:28:59
    purposes. But of course the enrichment
  • 00:29:03
    processes cannot be stopped. Iran must
  • 00:29:06
    sell that out. It's part of export. I
  • 00:29:09
    mean it exports enrich uranium for
  • 00:29:12
    civilian purposes medical or
  • 00:29:16
    [Music]
  • 00:29:18
    electricity energy production and things
  • 00:29:20
    like this.
  • 00:29:22
    And according to the JCPOA,
  • 00:29:26
    Iran was allowed to have a buffer
  • 00:29:30
    stock of 300 kilos
  • 00:29:34
    and
  • 00:29:36
    in uh the JCPOA was signed in 2015
  • 00:29:43
    and during this the the the following
  • 00:29:46
    years IAA inspected the Iran and Iran
  • 00:29:52
    was in full compliance with the the
  • 00:29:56
    treaty and I think one or two years
  • 00:29:59
    after as stipulated in the in the JCPOA
  • 00:30:04
    sanctions should have been lifted by the
  • 00:30:09
    uh by the western countries and the US
  • 00:30:11
    in particular.
  • 00:30:13
    Now what happened is that the US
  • 00:30:16
    withdrew in 2018 from the the um the
  • 00:30:22
    treaty and imposed new sanctions
  • 00:30:25
    prohibiting the export of uranium.
  • 00:30:28
    Meaning that this uranium could no
  • 00:30:31
    longer be exported as previously. No
  • 00:30:35
    sanctions was li were lifted because the
  • 00:30:38
    other partners of the treaty didn't dare
  • 00:30:41
    to do that because they they were
  • 00:30:43
    fearing the reaction of the US and
  • 00:30:47
    therefore although Iran was entitled to
  • 00:30:51
    have all the sanctions lifted because it
  • 00:30:54
    was in full compliance the sanctions
  • 00:30:57
    remained
  • 00:30:58
    and for that reason Iran said well I
  • 00:31:01
    don't feel bound by the treaty anymore
  • 00:31:03
    because nobody Nobody respects the
  • 00:31:05
    treaty. I mean the US have withdrew have
  • 00:31:08
    with withdrawn and the others don't dare
  • 00:31:12
    to lift the sanctions and the Americans
  • 00:31:15
    have added new sanctions.
  • 00:31:18
    So we we we were in a situation again
  • 00:31:21
    it's a total disruption of international
  • 00:31:24
    law
  • 00:31:26
    and that led the Iranian to enrich more
  • 00:31:32
    than the was uh stipulated in the JCPOA
  • 00:31:36
    for commercial purposes and it's
  • 00:31:39
    important to say that the maximum
  • 00:31:41
    enrichment that was reached by the
  • 00:31:44
    Iranian was 60%
  • 00:31:46
    in my to my knowledge they haven't gone
  • 00:31:49
    beyond that and going beyond that I mean
  • 00:31:52
    the the military grade uranium should be
  • 00:31:55
    90 90% and plus now from 60% to 90% it
  • 00:32:01
    requires a technology and u
  • 00:32:06
    a process that is extremely complex
  • 00:32:09
    because the more you you enrich your
  • 00:32:13
    uranium the more refined must be your
  • 00:32:17
    system and it it's even more expensive
  • 00:32:19
    and all that but to my knowledge the uh
  • 00:32:23
    Iranian have never produced uranium
  • 00:32:26
    military grade enriched uranium but they
  • 00:32:30
    enrich their uranium in order to sell it
  • 00:32:33
    for different purposes uh as an
  • 00:32:35
    exportation product and of course at the
  • 00:32:38
    same time the 300
  • 00:32:41
    kilograms buffer storage was uh reached
  • 00:32:45
    400 I We are not talking about something
  • 00:32:49
    uh um extraordinary.
  • 00:32:52
    The problem is that and if you have
  • 00:32:56
    noted
  • 00:32:57
    when the Americans started the operation
  • 00:33:00
    hammer uh um midnight
  • 00:33:04
    midnight hammer sorry um
  • 00:33:08
    short after the beginning of the
  • 00:33:09
    operation Kaya Kalas the foreign
  • 00:33:12
    minister of the EU and then Osula
  • 00:33:15
    Fandellayan the president of the
  • 00:33:16
    European Commission
  • 00:33:18
    uh send tweeted that
  • 00:33:22
    a a tweet about the uh to explain why uh
  • 00:33:26
    the US was justified in in attacking
  • 00:33:29
    Iran. But the first line the very first
  • 00:33:31
    line of the tweet for both of them was
  • 00:33:34
    we cannot allow Iran to have the nuclear
  • 00:33:37
    bomb.
  • 00:33:39
    So for most people the whole discussion
  • 00:33:42
    is and and the discussion that was
  • 00:33:46
    happening in um in Geneva by the way for
  • 00:33:49
    most people it was about Iran wanting
  • 00:33:52
    the bomb and the west doesn't want that
  • 00:33:56
    but it was not the the issue. The issue
  • 00:33:58
    that was in discussion in Geneva was not
  • 00:34:01
    about having the bomb or not. Iran has
  • 00:34:04
    stated many times that they don't want
  • 00:34:06
    the bomb. They never had they never had
  • 00:34:10
    a military nuclear program.
  • 00:34:14
    We come back to this uh we can come back
  • 00:34:17
    to this later but they never had such a
  • 00:34:19
    program and they didn't ask for having
  • 00:34:22
    the possibility of having a bomb. What
  • 00:34:24
    they want is to have the possibility to
  • 00:34:27
    enrich uranium
  • 00:34:30
    as an ill inalienable right. Now what
  • 00:34:34
    the Americans want, what the Israeli
  • 00:34:37
    want and therefore what the European
  • 00:34:40
    want is that
  • 00:34:43
    Iran should not make any type of uranian
  • 00:34:48
    enrichment. stop every single enrichment
  • 00:34:52
    activity which is against international
  • 00:34:56
    law and that is what is at stake in that
  • 00:35:01
    was what was at stake in Oman and that
  • 00:35:04
    with the with the Americans in the the
  • 00:35:06
    dialogue with the Americans in Oman and
  • 00:35:08
    that's exactly what was at stake with in
  • 00:35:11
    the discussion with the Europeans in
  • 00:35:13
    Geneva. So it's not about having the
  • 00:35:16
    bomb or not. It's being authorized or
  • 00:35:20
    having I mean to having the right to
  • 00:35:24
    enrich uranium or not and not we are not
  • 00:35:28
    talking about 3% 10% 20%. It's not about
  • 00:35:32
    a person the European or the west
  • 00:35:34
    doesn't want Iran to enrich uranm at
  • 00:35:36
    all.
  • 00:35:38
    in fact to renounce to a right that is
  • 00:35:42
    stipulated in the non-prololiferation
  • 00:35:44
    treaty as inalienable
  • 00:35:47
    and that's the reason why Iran has a
  • 00:35:50
    very firm stance on this
  • 00:35:53
    because it has signed an agreement it
  • 00:35:56
    always complied with this agreement I
  • 00:35:59
    mean the NPT
  • 00:36:02
    but in this special document is
  • 00:36:06
    authorized to enrich uranium for
  • 00:36:08
    civilian purposes what Iranian has done
  • 00:36:12
    and that has been demonstrated by the
  • 00:36:14
    various inspection of the IAA.
  • 00:36:18
    So you see here that the west is
  • 00:36:22
    distorting the reality. We we we shifted
  • 00:36:27
    the issue from authorization I mean the
  • 00:36:32
    legitimate right to enrich uranium from
  • 00:36:35
    that to having a nuclear bomb and that's
  • 00:36:40
    oh the head of the European Commission
  • 00:36:44
    that shows the level of disinformation
  • 00:36:47
    because the the head of the European
  • 00:36:50
    Commission which is essentially the head
  • 00:36:53
    of the European Union if you want still
  • 00:36:56
    considers that what is at stake is Iran
  • 00:36:59
    having a bomb or not and therefore
  • 00:37:02
    justifying military operation. This is
  • 00:37:05
    something which is absolutely insane.
  • 00:37:09
    You know we we we are we have we are
  • 00:37:12
    dealing with people who are totally
  • 00:37:15
    irrational
  • 00:37:17
    and that's we are back to what I said
  • 00:37:19
    before.
  • 00:37:21
    This is this is exactly the the the
  • 00:37:23
    problem here that we are distorting the
  • 00:37:27
    reality. The Iranians have never said
  • 00:37:30
    now you should authorize us to have a
  • 00:37:33
    nuclear bomb. First of all, they would
  • 00:37:35
    not ask for that probably. Uh
  • 00:37:40
    and now of course
  • 00:37:42
    the the the West want to prevent that.
  • 00:37:45
    Therefore, what is the consequence?
  • 00:37:48
    Having a nuclear weapon would probably
  • 00:37:51
    act as a deterrent. And by the way, you
  • 00:37:55
    had a document that was produced by the
  • 00:37:57
    Rand Corporation. I don't know if I have
  • 00:38:00
    it here just to show the um the cover
  • 00:38:03
    page. Uh probably I think this is this
  • 00:38:06
    one. Uh
  • 00:38:09
    sorry it's in French but the the the
  • 00:38:12
    date is in French but the title is
  • 00:38:15
    dangerous but not abnipotent which is a
  • 00:38:18
    study of the rain corporation
  • 00:38:21
    uh produced or published in 2008 about
  • 00:38:26
    the um
  • 00:38:29
    the the the I would say the strategic
  • 00:38:32
    posture of Iran in this document.
  • 00:38:37
    They explain that Iran has no nuclear
  • 00:38:41
    weapon, which is not a surprise. But
  • 00:38:45
    they also say that had Iran a nuclear
  • 00:38:49
    weapon, it would not be to attack Iran
  • 00:38:52
    or whoever, it would be for deterrence
  • 00:38:56
    purposes. because what they explain in
  • 00:38:58
    that document is that deterrence is the
  • 00:39:02
    central aspect of the Iranian uh
  • 00:39:07
    security policy. Therefore, they even
  • 00:39:11
    acknowledge that Iran has no
  • 00:39:15
    intent or ambitions
  • 00:39:19
    or whatever policy to attack the rest of
  • 00:39:23
    the Middle East, but they just want to
  • 00:39:26
    deter an external operation, which in
  • 00:39:29
    fact makes sense because they have been
  • 00:39:31
    threatened since decades. And what we
  • 00:39:34
    have seen in the last week is exactly
  • 00:39:38
    why the Iranians would need a deterrence
  • 00:39:44
    capacity.
  • 00:39:46
    meaning that on the one hand
  • 00:39:50
    because we we misuse the NPT to prevent
  • 00:39:56
    Iran to have its legitimate goal for
  • 00:39:59
    arranging or legitimate practice of
  • 00:40:02
    enriching uranium. And on the other
  • 00:40:04
    hand, the NPT prevents Iran to have a
  • 00:40:08
    let's say nuclear deterrence capacity.
  • 00:40:12
    Why would Iran stay in the NPT?
  • 00:40:15
    And that's why you have so many voices
  • 00:40:18
    in Iran to say, well, we cannot trust
  • 00:40:22
    the West. They don't even they can't
  • 00:40:25
    even read what they they read, right?
  • 00:40:28
    They cannot even uh uh implement or
  • 00:40:32
    accept what they have signed,
  • 00:40:34
    you know. So, why should Iran still
  • 00:40:38
    comply with the NPT?
  • 00:40:41
    And therefore it would make a lot of
  • 00:40:43
    sense especially after what happened in
  • 00:40:46
    the last 10 days.
  • 00:40:49
    It would make a lot of sense for Iran
  • 00:40:52
    just to say we quit the NPT and we have
  • 00:40:56
    our policy and go away. So that since
  • 00:41:00
    the IAA is not even able to explain the
  • 00:41:06
    world that Iran is complying
  • 00:41:11
    I mean there are probably some issue in
  • 00:41:13
    the compliance I I I I can agree with
  • 00:41:17
    that but I don't know but mostly is in
  • 00:41:21
    uh in the issue of reports it's about
  • 00:41:24
    the reporting it's about details it's
  • 00:41:27
    not about the fundamentals
  • 00:41:28
    And that's also uh what Iran is
  • 00:41:32
    complaining about about the IEA because
  • 00:41:36
    you you on the 12th of J June one day
  • 00:41:40
    before the Israeli operation
  • 00:41:44
    um the IIA has issued a report uh on on
  • 00:41:48
    non-compliance of Iran. But when you
  • 00:41:51
    read the report, you don't really
  • 00:41:53
    understand what exactly is non-compliant
  • 00:41:56
    with it's it refers to reporting which
  • 00:42:01
    is probably inaccurate or things like
  • 00:42:03
    this things that you can clarify
  • 00:42:05
    differently. But obviously we are not
  • 00:42:07
    talking about the fundamentals of the
  • 00:42:11
    application of the NPT.
  • 00:42:14
    So we play with words and and that's
  • 00:42:18
    also something the Russians have
  • 00:42:20
    complained about by the way because IA
  • 00:42:22
    was involved in the um problem related
  • 00:42:27
    to the um the Zapori nuclear power plant
  • 00:42:31
    in in Ukraine. And here again IA tried
  • 00:42:36
    to
  • 00:42:38
    have kind of ambiguous language in order
  • 00:42:40
    to satisfy the pressures of the west
  • 00:42:44
    instead of being
  • 00:42:48
    scientifically neutral if you want
  • 00:42:50
    factbased.
  • 00:42:52
    They tried to have this ambiguous
  • 00:42:54
    language just to please the west. And of
  • 00:42:59
    course this is also something that we
  • 00:43:02
    have seen in the past that when you go
  • 00:43:05
    to these UN agencies,
  • 00:43:08
    they are led by people coming from
  • 00:43:12
    usually uh large countries or large
  • 00:43:15
    contributors of the UN.
  • 00:43:17
    And of course, as soon as this person
  • 00:43:21
    decides something that is not in line
  • 00:43:24
    with what the West wants, well, we start
  • 00:43:27
    to talk about the fact that he may have
  • 00:43:30
    made some kind of harassment or
  • 00:43:33
    misbehavior
  • 00:43:34
    and think like this and we discard the
  • 00:43:37
    person. I mean again I will not uh uh
  • 00:43:42
    take or protect or defend uh the
  • 00:43:46
    director of the ICC but you you may
  • 00:43:50
    remember that as as soon as they issued
  • 00:43:53
    this arrest warrant against then
  • 00:43:55
    suddenly he was you know charge of
  • 00:44:00
    harassment and misconduct and things
  • 00:44:02
    like this before nobody talked about
  • 00:44:05
    this when when he when he had He he he
  • 00:44:08
    made the uh the arrest warrant against
  • 00:44:11
    Vladimir Putin he was a very fine guy
  • 00:44:14
    but as soon as it it was against Netany
  • 00:44:17
    then he became to be a bad guy and
  • 00:44:20
    that's exactly the problem we have here
  • 00:44:23
    these people they they are they probably
  • 00:44:26
    selected for that by the way they don't
  • 00:44:28
    have a strong personality they can be
  • 00:44:31
    pressured and this is exactly what you
  • 00:44:35
    have with Rafael Gi These individuals
  • 00:44:38
    are not they they are not let's say
  • 00:44:42
    integ
  • 00:44:45
    they they cannot oh how to say that we
  • 00:44:48
    cannot say they have integrity
  • 00:44:51
    they are not marked by integrity if you
  • 00:44:54
    are an a person with integrity you can
  • 00:44:58
    resist those pressure and you say well
  • 00:45:02
    if you don't agree with me I go away but
  • 00:45:05
    because My task my my my duty my task is
  • 00:45:11
    based on the fact the fact says so and
  • 00:45:14
    that's what I tell you in good faith and
  • 00:45:18
    with all the best of my knowledge but
  • 00:45:21
    I'm not
  • 00:45:23
    uh complying with any pressure my my
  • 00:45:27
    decision or my action my assessment or
  • 00:45:31
    whatever is based exclusively on facts
  • 00:45:37
    And this is the way it should go. We
  • 00:45:40
    those agencies which are essentially
  • 00:45:42
    technical agencies of the UN such as the
  • 00:45:45
    IEA, the OPCV and things like this.
  • 00:45:48
    These are agencies should be uh guided
  • 00:45:53
    by facts
  • 00:45:56
    with individuals that are marked by
  • 00:46:00
    integrity and the ability to resist
  • 00:46:03
    pressure. I mentioned the OPCV because
  • 00:46:06
    that was exactly the same issue that
  • 00:46:08
    happened in uh in in 2013
  • 00:46:13
    with uh with Syria and the uh I don't
  • 00:46:17
    remember the name of the ambassador who
  • 00:46:19
    was leading the OPC at that time. I
  • 00:46:21
    think he was a a French ambassador but
  • 00:46:24
    obviously
  • 00:46:25
    he was pressured by western countries to
  • 00:46:31
    to have to let's say convey a certain
  • 00:46:35
    language that would open the door for
  • 00:46:39
    the accusation against the Assad regime
  • 00:46:41
    and that he had even problem within the
  • 00:46:45
    organization because some individuals
  • 00:46:46
    said no this is not the way it should be
  • 00:46:49
    and you had dissident They were expelled
  • 00:46:51
    of course and they tried to express the
  • 00:46:56
    the the reality of the facts and not a
  • 00:46:59
    political reality. These agencies should
  • 00:47:02
    not be political. They should be
  • 00:47:04
    factual. The politics come afterwards.
  • 00:47:08
    But the the assessment should be
  • 00:47:11
    factual. And that's exactly the problem
  • 00:47:14
    here. Apparently, apparently, I don't
  • 00:47:17
    know, again, maybe uh I cannot verify
  • 00:47:22
    100% the information, but apparently the
  • 00:47:25
    the um director of the IAA
  • 00:47:29
    agreed to share the names and location
  • 00:47:34
    of some Iranian scientists
  • 00:47:38
    who incidentally
  • 00:47:40
    were killed on the 13th of June.
  • 00:47:45
    So this is something that
  • 00:47:50
    has
  • 00:47:52
    I mean extraordinary importance in fact
  • 00:47:54
    because this is the whole credibility
  • 00:47:57
    of the international order that is at
  • 00:48:01
    stake here
  • 00:48:03
    and we are back to exactly what I said
  • 00:48:06
    before. The west is corrupting
  • 00:48:09
    the international lawbased order in
  • 00:48:13
    order to replace it with this
  • 00:48:15
    international rulebased order where the
  • 00:48:18
    west establish the rules and these rules
  • 00:48:22
    are accepted by the west only and that's
  • 00:48:24
    exactly what we are witnessing today
  • 00:48:26
    with Iran and that's something that is
  • 00:48:29
    in my view totally inacceptable
  • 00:48:33
    and that's not related again I'm not
  • 00:48:36
    Iranian
  • 00:48:37
    uh some other people can judge better
  • 00:48:40
    the situation in Iran. I I cannot and to
  • 00:48:44
    be honest, this is not my business
  • 00:48:47
    in currently.
  • 00:48:49
    Uh this is
  • 00:48:52
    this is beyond the point here. Here we
  • 00:48:56
    are talking about something very
  • 00:48:57
    precise. This is international security
  • 00:49:01
    is this international nuclear security I
  • 00:49:04
    would say
  • 00:49:06
    and this is about this whether Kame has
  • 00:49:12
    a black dress or white dress or I don't
  • 00:49:15
    care this is not the issue
  • 00:49:19
    and this is where we see this where the
  • 00:49:22
    corruption in the west is going because
  • 00:49:25
    in fact behind all this and this was
  • 00:49:29
    repeated and that was even mentioned in
  • 00:49:32
    I think the Washington Post mentioned
  • 00:49:34
    that because after
  • 00:49:36
    the half failure of the operation
  • 00:49:40
    midnight hammer now they are considering
  • 00:49:43
    a regime change in Iran. I mean, Trump
  • 00:49:46
    is thinking about regime change in Iran
  • 00:49:48
    because at the end of the day, it goes
  • 00:49:50
    about that,
  • 00:49:53
    you know, and that's exactly where we
  • 00:49:56
    are at stake. I mean, we are exactly in
  • 00:49:59
    opposition to the UN charter.
  • 00:50:02
    In the UN charter, you don't care who
  • 00:50:05
    leads the country XYZ,
  • 00:50:08
    whether it's a good or bad leader. By
  • 00:50:11
    the way, if it were a bad leader, we
  • 00:50:13
    could eliminate all the European
  • 00:50:16
    leaders,
  • 00:50:19
    but we don't do that because they are
  • 00:50:22
    conveniently stupid.
  • 00:50:25
    This is
  • 00:50:27
    the thing is that
  • 00:50:30
    what what is behind all this is at the
  • 00:50:34
    end of the day the um the subversion
  • 00:50:38
    against Iran.
  • 00:50:41
    And all we we see about all this
  • 00:50:45
    assertion that
  • 00:50:48
    uh I I I recently listened to a Swiss
  • 00:50:52
    journalist who said that Iran had a
  • 00:50:56
    nuclear program in the late 50s in order
  • 00:51:00
    to bomb its neighbors.
  • 00:51:06
    You know, in the late 50s,
  • 00:51:09
    Iran had had a government that has been
  • 00:51:13
    installed by the US and the British, by
  • 00:51:15
    the way, and was part in of the western
  • 00:51:20
    block with all the neighboring
  • 00:51:22
    countries.
  • 00:51:23
    So why should Iran wanting to destroy
  • 00:51:27
    its neighbors since they were all
  • 00:51:29
    belonging to the same club if you want?
  • 00:51:33
    In addition to that, the nuclear program
  • 00:51:35
    in Iran was established in the late 50s
  • 00:51:38
    with the help of the Americans.
  • 00:51:42
    So the Americans were feeding Iran to
  • 00:51:45
    bomb neighbors who are the closest ally
  • 00:51:48
    to the US, you know,
  • 00:51:52
    and and that's where you see this
  • 00:51:54
    inconsistency that we have among even
  • 00:51:57
    journalists who by the way is
  • 00:52:00
    self-portrayed as an expert on Iran.
  • 00:52:05
    So we are we are beyond rationality here
  • 00:52:09
    at every level.
  • 00:52:11
    And and that's that is where I think a
  • 00:52:16
    citizen
  • 00:52:18
    regardless the country but when we
  • 00:52:20
    belong to a citizen we cannot accept to
  • 00:52:24
    have people who behave irrationally
  • 00:52:28
    for interest we don't know where they
  • 00:52:31
    come from and where they head to
  • 00:52:35
    because
  • 00:52:37
    as you rightly said Putin said we fight
  • 00:52:40
    against the same force forces.
  • 00:52:44
    Who are these forces?
  • 00:52:48
    And we see that we have
  • 00:52:52
    consistently
  • 00:52:54
    since about 30 years now and probably
  • 00:52:57
    more in fact, but notably in the last 30
  • 00:53:01
    years.
  • 00:53:04
    By listening to these forces,
  • 00:53:06
    we have disrupted a whole region.
  • 00:53:10
    who have killed million of people,
  • 00:53:13
    displaced millions of people,
  • 00:53:16
    create more harm than anybody else in
  • 00:53:19
    the in in history because this is
  • 00:53:23
    massive that I have done and just for
  • 00:53:26
    the sake of these
  • 00:53:29
    horses
  • 00:53:32
    you know it's not even the interest I
  • 00:53:34
    mean when I see my country Switzerland
  • 00:53:37
    was supposed to be neutral
  • 00:53:40
    or is supposed to be neutral.
  • 00:53:45
    Did they complain or condemn the US
  • 00:53:50
    operation in Iran or the Israeli
  • 00:53:54
    operation in Iran? No.
  • 00:53:57
    Even if basically traditionally
  • 00:54:02
    the
  • 00:54:03
    compliance with the international law
  • 00:54:07
    was a basis of Swiss foreign policy
  • 00:54:12
    which is exactly compatible with
  • 00:54:14
    neutrality. Neutrality is not about
  • 00:54:17
    being right or left or blue or white or
  • 00:54:21
    whatever. It's about having the rule of
  • 00:54:25
    law and how about compliance with the
  • 00:54:28
    international law. Period. That's
  • 00:54:31
    neutrality.
  • 00:54:33
    You can be blue and if you don't comply,
  • 00:54:35
    you don't comply. If you are white, you
  • 00:54:38
    don't comply. That means you don't
  • 00:54:39
    comply and you can be blamed for that.
  • 00:54:42
    That's neutrality. Neutrality is not
  • 00:54:45
    saying nothing about things. It's
  • 00:54:47
    precisely especially if international
  • 00:54:49
    law is the your core business or the
  • 00:54:52
    defense and the protection of
  • 00:54:54
    international law is your core business
  • 00:54:56
    then we have to do but Switzerland
  • 00:54:58
    conveniently
  • 00:55:00
    didn't condemn we condemned of course
  • 00:55:04
    what happened on the 7th of October 2023
  • 00:55:07
    what the Russians have done in in the
  • 00:55:10
    24th of February 2022 and all that but
  • 00:55:15
    the operation the Israeli and the US
  • 00:55:17
    operation against Iran which are blatant
  • 00:55:21
    violation of international law.
  • 00:55:23
    Violation of the UN charter are not
  • 00:55:27
    condemned.
  • 00:55:28
    So that means we are beyond neutrality
  • 00:55:31
    here.
  • 00:55:33
    And I think the example of Switzerland
  • 00:55:38
    exemplifies
  • 00:55:40
    the uh failure of the west at large
  • 00:55:44
    because in the past during the cold war
  • 00:55:49
    we thought that we were better than the
  • 00:55:54
    communist block or wars pack. You can
  • 00:55:58
    call him as you want, but we're better
  • 00:56:01
    because we had the rule of law, because
  • 00:56:06
    we had those democratic laws and because
  • 00:56:09
    we could have this uh kind of
  • 00:56:12
    transparency in acting according to the
  • 00:56:16
    wish of the population and things like
  • 00:56:18
    that. We're not authoritarian. We are
  • 00:56:21
    not undemocratic and things like this.
  • 00:56:24
    And today what are we seeing? We are
  • 00:56:27
    seeing exactly the opposite.
  • 00:56:30
    We have totally failed.
  • 00:56:33
    And I'm happy to be honest
  • 00:56:37
    no longer belonging to the intelligent
  • 00:56:39
    service today because I would probably
  • 00:56:43
    be be dismissed
  • 00:56:46
    within minutes. uh because
  • 00:56:50
    this is not what the the the spirit this
  • 00:56:53
    is not the um the philosophy this is not
  • 00:56:59
    what we had in mind at the time
  • 00:57:03
    the way we managed the cold war was
  • 00:57:05
    probably good probably bad I don't know
  • 00:57:07
    and history will tell but
  • 00:57:11
    at least we could manage to keep kind of
  • 00:57:16
    a democratic IC type of governance.
  • 00:57:21
    Everybody could express itself. As I
  • 00:57:25
    said many times, you could buy the
  • 00:57:27
    PRAVDA in in the papers and news outlets
  • 00:57:32
    in in Switzerland, in France, and
  • 00:57:34
    elsewhere. So although we were we are
  • 00:57:38
    fighting against the Warsaw pact,
  • 00:57:42
    people could still be communists in our
  • 00:57:45
    countries.
  • 00:57:46
    Today we are not only preventing any
  • 00:57:53
    um
  • 00:57:55
    unconvenient
  • 00:57:57
    u narrative or the narrative that
  • 00:58:00
    doesn't follow the official one.
  • 00:58:04
    But our leadership doesn't behave
  • 00:58:07
    rationally.
  • 00:58:09
    Behave
  • 00:58:11
    according to objective that nobody
  • 00:58:13
    really can understand
  • 00:58:15
    and can follow and accept by the way.
  • 00:58:19
    Well, we usually don't ask them. So
  • 00:58:22
    that's that's easier also. And we have
  • 00:58:25
    also a society that accepts that also
  • 00:58:27
    have to say. So, uh, in the 60s and the
  • 00:58:30
    70s, you had demonstrations all over
  • 00:58:33
    against the war in in in Vietnam and
  • 00:58:36
    elsewhere. And okay,
  • 00:58:39
    I I don't know if that was useful or
  • 00:58:41
    not. I I was not part of that, but
  • 00:58:46
    you could you could do that. Today, if
  • 00:58:49
    you have a demonstration for Palestine,
  • 00:58:52
    you're accused of terrorism.
  • 00:58:56
    As my uncle who was in a French
  • 00:58:59
    resistance during World War II, he was
  • 00:59:01
    considered as a terrorist by the
  • 00:59:03
    Germans. Everything that was opposed to
  • 00:59:06
    the official rule was considered as
  • 00:59:08
    terrorists. And we have exactly the same
  • 00:59:10
    thing today.
  • 00:59:12
    So there is something deeply wrong in
  • 00:59:15
    our societies. And I think beyond what's
  • 00:59:20
    happening and the exchange of missiles
  • 00:59:22
    and the success of the uh the this
  • 00:59:26
    missile exchange with this whole issue
  • 00:59:29
    questions the very fundamentals of our
  • 00:59:33
    societies.
  • 00:59:35
    I don't anyway we
  • 00:59:39
    thank you so much Carl for being with us
  • 00:59:42
    today. Great pleasure as always have you
  • 00:59:45
    on. That was my pleasure. Thank you very
  • 00:59:47
    much for inviting me.
Tag
  • Iran
  • Trump
  • Attaques
  • Diplomatie
  • NPT
  • IAEA
  • Enrichissement d'uranium
  • Ordre international
  • Stratégie
  • Conflit