Episode 723 | How to Be a Supercommunicator (and Why it Matters a...

00:31:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY0ToPoJ3EQ

Sintesi

TLDRIn this episode of ''Startups for the Rest of Us,'' host Rob Walling interviews Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Charles Duhigg about the importance of effective communication, especially for bootstrappers. Duhigg, known for his books such as "The Power of Habit" and "Super Communicators," explains how even introverts can become super communicators by understanding different types of conversations—practical, emotional, and social—and the skill of asking deep questions. They discuss techniques like looping for understanding, which involves verifying and proving active listening, and the importance of matching conversation types to improve connection. The episode also touches on strategies for moving between different conversation types and adapting these skills to various communication channels, including written forms like emails. Overall, the discussion emphasizes the fungibility of communication skills across different settings and the ways entrepreneurs can use them to improve interactions both professionally and personally.

Punti di forza

  • 🎤 Effective communication is crucial for bootstrappers.
  • 🧠 Different types of conversations require specific approaches.
  • ❓ Asking deep questions deepens connections.
  • 🔄 Looping for understanding ensures active listening.
  • 🔀 Transitioning conversation types requires permission.
  • 📧 Written communication needs adapted skills.
  • 🕴 Introverts can excel in communication too.
  • 🗣 Super communicators master these varied skills.
  • 📚 Exploring examples enhances understanding.
  • 👥 Connecting at events involves empathy and curiosity.

Linea temporale

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    Rob Walling introduces his guest, Charles Duhigg, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist known for his books on communication. Rob highlights the importance of communication skills, especially for entrepreneurs and bootstrappers, and how they impact various aspects of life, including work, personal relationships, and business growth.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Charles Duhigg discusses the concept of 'super communicators' and how communication isn't just about talking but involves understanding different types of conversations: practical, emotional, and social. He emphasizes the importance of matching the other person's conversation type to enhance communication.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Duhigg further explains how asking questions, particularly deep questions, can determine the type of conversation—practical, emotional, or social—and how recognizing this can aid in resolving conflicts or transitioning conversations gracefully. He introduces the concept of 'looping for understanding' to confirm comprehension in a conversation.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    The discussion shifts to handling communication in conflict situations. Duhigg emphasizes the importance of showing you are listening, suggesting techniques like 'looping for understanding' to prove comprehension and willingness to collaborate. This approach applies to various relationships, whether professional or personal, to ease tension and improve dialogue.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Rob and Charles explore communication in casual settings, like networking events. Duhigg suggests that introverts can excel in these situations by reducing anxiety with preparation and focusing on open-ended questions to engage deeper conversation, thus enhancing their natural communication instincts.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:31:57

    They touch on written communication and its unique rules compared to verbal interaction. Duhigg points out that while the principles of communication remain the same—understanding and adapting to context—each medium has specific nuances. Rob concludes by encouraging listeners to explore these communication principles to improve both personal and professional interactions.

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Mappa mentale

Mind Map

Domande frequenti

  • Who is Charles Duhigg?

    Charles Duhigg is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and author of books like "The Power of Habit" and "Super Communicators."

  • What is the main focus of this podcast episode?

    The episode focuses on communication strategies, especially for entrepreneurs and bootstrappers, to improve interactions in various settings.

  • What are super communicators?

    Super communicators are individuals who excel in effective communication by recognizing and adapting to different types of conversations.

  • Can introverts become super communicators?

    Yes, introverts can become super communicators by learning and practicing specific communication skills.

  • What are deep questions in communication?

    Deep questions explore a person's values, beliefs, or experiences, encouraging a deeper connection during conversations.

  • How can you transition between different types of conversations?

    By asking permission to change the conversation type and ensuring you have understood the other person's perspective.

  • What is looping for understanding?

    It's a communication technique involving asking questions, repeating back in your own words, and verifying understanding to prove you are listening.

  • Can communication techniques apply to written communication like emails?

    Yes, but it's important to adapt to the different rules and strengths of each communication channel.

  • How can introverts reduce anxiety in conversations?

    By preparing topics or questions beforehand to feel more confident during conversations.

  • How does Charles Duhigg suggest improving small talk?

    By asking questions that reveal deeper insights into a person, making the conversation more meaningful.

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Sottotitoli
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Scorrimento automatico:
  • 00:00:00
    welcome back to startups for the rest of
  • 00:00:01
    us I'm your host Rob Walling and this
  • 00:00:03
    week I speak with Pulitzer Prize winning
  • 00:00:05
    journalist Charles doig Charles writes
  • 00:00:08
    for the New York Times and New Yorker
  • 00:00:10
    magazine and has written three books
  • 00:00:13
    including the Power of Habit smarter
  • 00:00:15
    faster better and most recently super
  • 00:00:18
    communicators I wanted to have Charles
  • 00:00:20
    on the show not to cover material from
  • 00:00:23
    the book per but to figure out how to
  • 00:00:26
    translate that into why being a better
  • 00:00:29
    community Communicator should matter to
  • 00:00:31
    you as a bootstrapper whether you're
  • 00:00:33
    having conversations at your day job
  • 00:00:36
    while you're doing your side hustle
  • 00:00:37
    whether you're doing sales demos whether
  • 00:00:40
    you are talking to folks that you have
  • 00:00:41
    hired contractors or full-time employees
  • 00:00:44
    or even communicating with your spouse
  • 00:00:47
    or significant other as you try to
  • 00:00:49
    navigate the frothy Waters of building
  • 00:00:51
    your company Charles is extremely well
  • 00:00:54
    spoken and has a deep deep understanding
  • 00:00:57
    of this topic so it was a pleasure to
  • 00:01:00
    have him on the show let's dive into our
  • 00:01:08
    [Music]
  • 00:01:13
    conversation Charles zck thanks for
  • 00:01:15
    joining me on the show thanks for having
  • 00:01:17
    me on it's it's great to finally meet
  • 00:01:19
    you I you know we were talking offline
  • 00:01:21
    and I realized I've read at least two
  • 00:01:23
    maybe three of your books but I hadn't
  • 00:01:24
    put together you sometimes you just
  • 00:01:25
    don't put together that the author has
  • 00:01:27
    written all these books so Power of
  • 00:01:29
    Habit a lot of folks have probably heard
  • 00:01:31
    of as well as smarter faster better and
  • 00:01:35
    most recently super communicators and
  • 00:01:38
    that's what we're here to talk about
  • 00:01:39
    today how to unlock the secret language
  • 00:01:41
    of connection and I know there's there's
  • 00:01:42
    a lot of listeners probably listening to
  • 00:01:43
    this thinking you know what I'm a
  • 00:01:45
    software developer I'm going to go Indie
  • 00:01:46
    hack my way and build that solo Empire
  • 00:01:49
    but you always need to know how to
  • 00:01:51
    communicate with people and that's why I
  • 00:01:52
    wanted to have you on the show today yes
  • 00:01:54
    even if you are building a solo Empire
  • 00:01:56
    you probably have like a spouse or a
  • 00:01:58
    significant other at home and if you're
  • 00:02:00
    not communicating well with them it does
  • 00:02:02
    not matter how big your solo Empire
  • 00:02:04
    becomes right like like communication is
  • 00:02:07
    at the heart of what humans do and it's
  • 00:02:09
    it's critical yep and as I used to be a
  • 00:02:12
    not great communicator and I've had to
  • 00:02:14
    develop that over the past 10 or 15
  • 00:02:16
    years I grew up left brain like
  • 00:02:17
    introvert developer and so I would
  • 00:02:21
    almost gravitate towards roles where
  • 00:02:23
    it's like well I just don't need to
  • 00:02:24
    communicate with people right I'm again
  • 00:02:25
    I'm going to be that solo person just
  • 00:02:26
    doing my thing and I've learned that the
  • 00:02:28
    better I've got at communication
  • 00:02:30
    partially through doing this podcast to
  • 00:02:31
    be honest you talk for 720 episodes you
  • 00:02:34
    just you get a little better at it but
  • 00:02:36
    also dealing with the hard things of
  • 00:02:37
    Life starting companies you know as you
  • 00:02:39
    said working with my spouse on those I
  • 00:02:42
    think to get us started there are super
  • 00:02:45
    communicators which the book is about
  • 00:02:47
    which are folks that are much much
  • 00:02:49
    better at communicating than what
  • 00:02:52
    normies we might call right Muggles as
  • 00:02:54
    they call them in but like just Define
  • 00:02:57
    the term for us to set the stage sure
  • 00:03:00
    absolutely and and it's worth noting
  • 00:03:01
    that all of us are super communicators
  • 00:03:03
    at one time or another right so here
  • 00:03:05
    here's a great way of of demonstrating
  • 00:03:06
    it so if you were having a bad day and
  • 00:03:09
    you came home after this long day and
  • 00:03:11
    you're feeling kind of lousy and you're
  • 00:03:13
    like you know what I'm going to call
  • 00:03:14
    someone because I know calling this
  • 00:03:16
    person will make me feel better do you
  • 00:03:18
    know who you would call like does that
  • 00:03:19
    person pop into your mind yep who who is
  • 00:03:22
    that uh it's a friend of mine named
  • 00:03:23
    Brendan okay Brendan so for you Brendan
  • 00:03:26
    is a super communicator and you're
  • 00:03:27
    probably a super Communicator back to
  • 00:03:29
    him and I'm guessing and tell me if I'm
  • 00:03:31
    getting this wrong I'm guessing that one
  • 00:03:33
    of the reasons why you love talking to
  • 00:03:34
    Brendan is he knows what questions to
  • 00:03:37
    ask you right and he proves to you that
  • 00:03:39
    he's listening and he shares things
  • 00:03:41
    about himself he doesn't try and steal
  • 00:03:42
    the spotlight but he'll share things
  • 00:03:44
    about himself and so it just feels
  • 00:03:46
    really good to talk to him so there are
  • 00:03:49
    some people who can do this with anyone
  • 00:03:51
    there are some people who can be
  • 00:03:52
    consistent super communicators and the
  • 00:03:54
    reason why is because they've recognized
  • 00:03:56
    the skills that Brendan brings to his
  • 00:03:58
    conversation with you and the skills
  • 00:04:00
    that you almost unconsciously use in
  • 00:04:03
    talking to Brendan those are fungible
  • 00:04:05
    skills those are skills that you can use
  • 00:04:07
    with anyone once you recognize it's a
  • 00:04:09
    skill it's just like learning how to
  • 00:04:11
    read right if you learn to read on
  • 00:04:13
    non-fiction that doesn't mean you can't
  • 00:04:15
    read fiction or you can't read a
  • 00:04:16
    cookbook right it's a completely
  • 00:04:18
    fungible skill communication we've
  • 00:04:20
    discovered is exactly the same and so
  • 00:04:23
    anyone can become a super Communicator
  • 00:04:25
    it's just a matter of understanding that
  • 00:04:27
    there's this handful of skills that you
  • 00:04:29
    need to recognize the skills and once
  • 00:04:30
    you do you can practice them until they
  • 00:04:32
    become habits and use them with anyone
  • 00:04:34
    got it well let's let's Dive Right In
  • 00:04:36
    then like what are the skills if
  • 00:04:37
    someone's thinking to you know to
  • 00:04:39
    themselves I want to be able to
  • 00:04:40
    communicate better have hard
  • 00:04:41
    conversations and maybe it's maybe it's
  • 00:04:43
    having hard conversations about firing
  • 00:04:44
    someone maybe it's having hard
  • 00:04:45
    conversations about saying hey you're
  • 00:04:47
    not cutting it I want to try to train
  • 00:04:49
    you up but like I have to give you hard
  • 00:04:50
    feedback right at it totally you know
  • 00:04:52
    you can be an employee and have these
  • 00:04:54
    conversations you can be in your own
  • 00:04:55
    company and have employees but like how
  • 00:04:57
    do you get better at at being
  • 00:04:59
    Communicator yeah so there's a handful
  • 00:05:01
    of them so the first one is to
  • 00:05:03
    understand what kind of conversation
  • 00:05:05
    you're having so so this book really
  • 00:05:06
    started when I um I fell into this bad
  • 00:05:08
    pattern with my wife which literally
  • 00:05:10
    anyone in a relationship will recognize
  • 00:05:12
    which is I would come home from work
  • 00:05:14
    after a long day I'd start complaining
  • 00:05:15
    about my day and my wife very reasonably
  • 00:05:18
    would like suggest some practical
  • 00:05:20
    Solutions she'd be like oh you know you
  • 00:05:21
    should just take your boss out to lunch
  • 00:05:23
    and you guys will get to know each other
  • 00:05:24
    a little bit better and instead of being
  • 00:05:26
    able to hear what she was saying I would
  • 00:05:28
    get even more upset right and I'd be
  • 00:05:29
    like why aren't you supporting me you're
  • 00:05:30
    supposed to be on my side you're
  • 00:05:31
    supposed to be outraged on my behalf she
  • 00:05:33
    would get upset because I was attacking
  • 00:05:35
    her for giving me good advice and so I
  • 00:05:36
    went to these researchers and I was like
  • 00:05:38
    what's going on here like like I'm a
  • 00:05:40
    professional Communicator why do I and
  • 00:05:42
    everyone I know fall into this pattern
  • 00:05:44
    and they were like well you know
  • 00:05:45
    actually we're living through a golden
  • 00:05:47
    age of understanding communication
  • 00:05:49
    because of advances in neuroimaging and
  • 00:05:52
    data collection we really know what's
  • 00:05:53
    happening inside people's brains for the
  • 00:05:55
    first time and they said one of the
  • 00:05:56
    things that we've learned is that when
  • 00:05:58
    you have a discussion you assume that
  • 00:06:00
    discussion is about one thing right
  • 00:06:02
    you're talking about your day or you're
  • 00:06:03
    talking about your kids' grades or we
  • 00:06:04
    going to go on vacation but actually
  • 00:06:06
    every discussion is made up of different
  • 00:06:08
    kinds of
  • 00:06:09
    conversations and in general these
  • 00:06:11
    conversations they tend to fall into one
  • 00:06:12
    of three buckets there's um practical
  • 00:06:14
    conversations where we're solving
  • 00:06:16
    problems together or we're making plans
  • 00:06:18
    but then there's also emotional
  • 00:06:19
    conversations where I might tell you
  • 00:06:21
    what I'm feeling and I don't want you to
  • 00:06:23
    solve my feelings I want you to
  • 00:06:25
    empathize and then there's social
  • 00:06:27
    conversations which is about how we
  • 00:06:28
    relate to each other and to society and
  • 00:06:30
    they said what we've learned is if
  • 00:06:31
    you're having different kinds of
  • 00:06:33
    conversations at the same moment it's
  • 00:06:35
    really hard to hear each other it's
  • 00:06:36
    really hard to connect which is of
  • 00:06:38
    course what was happening with me I was
  • 00:06:39
    coming home and having an emotional
  • 00:06:40
    conversation my wife was responding with
  • 00:06:42
    a practical conversation and as a result
  • 00:06:45
    we really couldn't hear each other and
  • 00:06:47
    so the first thing that super
  • 00:06:48
    communicators do really well is they
  • 00:06:49
    just take a step back and they just ask
  • 00:06:51
    themselves what kind of conversation
  • 00:06:53
    does it seem like we're having right now
  • 00:06:54
    like are we having an emotional
  • 00:06:55
    conversation a practical conversation a
  • 00:06:57
    social conversation and there's ways to
  • 00:06:59
    kind of flush that out and and help you
  • 00:07:01
    figure out what kind of conversation
  • 00:07:02
    you're having but once they know then
  • 00:07:05
    they lean into it they try and match the
  • 00:07:07
    other person or invite them to match
  • 00:07:10
    themselves and within psychology that's
  • 00:07:12
    known as the matching principle that
  • 00:07:14
    successful conversate communication
  • 00:07:16
    requires having the same kind of
  • 00:07:17
    conversation at the same moment so I as
  • 00:07:20
    you're saying this I know a super
  • 00:07:21
    Communicator it's my wife Dr Sher
  • 00:07:23
    Walling folks who listen to the podcast
  • 00:07:24
    will know I mean a she's a psychologist
  • 00:07:26
    so she's trained but B she has empathy
  • 00:07:28
    and also she's now a professional like
  • 00:07:30
    she's a a you know CEO and founder coach
  • 00:07:32
    she's an entrepreneur herself and just
  • 00:07:33
    deals with a lot of entrepreneurs every
  • 00:07:36
    conversation anyone who's talked to her
  • 00:07:37
    who who's listening to this knows that
  • 00:07:40
    she picks up on where you are and then
  • 00:07:44
    kind of kind of goes with it so yeah
  • 00:07:46
    that's that's fascinating I think that's
  • 00:07:48
    helpful like for listeners who are
  • 00:07:49
    listening right now like think of the
  • 00:07:50
    person there's got to be someone in your
  • 00:07:52
    life who is just amazing at this right
  • 00:07:55
    and what is it is it that they they pick
  • 00:07:58
    up on the speaker the other person where
  • 00:08:01
    they are and meets them there do they
  • 00:08:03
    also sometimes transition there you said
  • 00:08:06
    they're three types but yeah absolutely
  • 00:08:08
    absolutely it's both it's both of it so
  • 00:08:10
    let's talk about how we figure out what
  • 00:08:11
    kind of conversation we're having right
  • 00:08:13
    so one thing we know about consistent
  • 00:08:15
    super communicators is that they ask
  • 00:08:17
    more questions than the average person
  • 00:08:18
    they ask like 10 to 20 times as many
  • 00:08:21
    questions as the average person and some
  • 00:08:23
    of those questions are very special
  • 00:08:24
    questions that are known as deep
  • 00:08:26
    questions and a deep question is
  • 00:08:28
    something that asks me about my values
  • 00:08:30
    or my beliefs or my experiences and that
  • 00:08:32
    can sound kind of intimidating right it
  • 00:08:33
    sounds like that's like a big question
  • 00:08:35
    but it's actually as simple as like if
  • 00:08:36
    you meet someone and you're like what do
  • 00:08:38
    you do for a living and they say I'm a
  • 00:08:40
    doctor it's natural to say like oh where
  • 00:08:42
    do you practice medicine but a better
  • 00:08:43
    question a deep question is to say like
  • 00:08:45
    oh what made you decide to go to medical
  • 00:08:47
    school because when I'm asking that
  • 00:08:48
    question what I'm really asking you is
  • 00:08:51
    tell me about who you are like tell me
  • 00:08:53
    about your experiences your values the
  • 00:08:56
    things that shaped you and it's an
  • 00:08:58
    invitation right right it's not a
  • 00:08:59
    mandate it's an invitation but what
  • 00:09:02
    tends to happen is that when you ask a
  • 00:09:04
    deep question when you ask someone how
  • 00:09:06
    they feel about their life instead of
  • 00:09:07
    The Facts of their life they tend to
  • 00:09:09
    tell you what kind of mindset they're in
  • 00:09:12
    so the same person that doctor depending
  • 00:09:14
    on the situation depending on how
  • 00:09:15
    they're feeling that day they may answer
  • 00:09:17
    that question one of two ways they might
  • 00:09:18
    say something like oh you know I wanted
  • 00:09:20
    a steady job and I knew that medicine
  • 00:09:21
    would always be a steady job okay
  • 00:09:23
    they're in a practical mindset right now
  • 00:09:25
    but that same person if they're feeling
  • 00:09:26
    more vulnerable they might say something
  • 00:09:27
    like you know when I was a kid I saw my
  • 00:09:30
    dad get sick and I saw like the doctors
  • 00:09:32
    and the nurses help him and I wanted to
  • 00:09:33
    be one of those people okay that
  • 00:09:35
    person's in a much more emotional
  • 00:09:36
    mindset and so once I know what kind of
  • 00:09:39
    mindset you're in then I can match you
  • 00:09:42
    and I can say oh it's so interesting you
  • 00:09:43
    mentioned that like I'm a lawyer and I
  • 00:09:45
    became a lawyer cuz I saw my uncle get
  • 00:09:47
    arrested when I was a kid right and I
  • 00:09:50
    can also invite you to match me if for
  • 00:09:53
    instance when I come home and I'm and
  • 00:09:55
    I'm talking to my wife and she listens
  • 00:09:57
    to me complain and she kind of emotes
  • 00:09:58
    with me at some point she can say like I
  • 00:10:01
    understand how you're feeling do you
  • 00:10:02
    want to talk about Solutions cuz I think
  • 00:10:04
    that there's a there's a way to solve
  • 00:10:06
    this problem so what super communicators
  • 00:10:08
    do is they ask deep questions to try and
  • 00:10:10
    figure out what kind of conversation is
  • 00:10:12
    happening and then they match the other
  • 00:10:14
    person and invite them to match
  • 00:10:16
    themselves and that can sound kind of
  • 00:10:19
    hard but it's actually very very easy
  • 00:10:21
    and very natural and graceful because
  • 00:10:23
    our brain makes makes asking deep
  • 00:10:25
    questions and matching into a habit very
  • 00:10:28
    quickly you're so on point and it
  • 00:10:30
    reminds me of I don't know if you've
  • 00:10:31
    seen it on Instagram but there's a a
  • 00:10:33
    text where a guy's girlfriend texts him
  • 00:10:36
    and says I just bought an ice cream cone
  • 00:10:39
    and and the the scoop fell off onto the
  • 00:10:42
    sidewalk and he says are we in a feeling
  • 00:10:44
    in empathy mode or would you like to
  • 00:10:45
    hear Solutions you know it's like total
  • 00:10:48
    tone deaf but it but it totally links
  • 00:10:49
    into what you're saying right and yet
  • 00:10:51
    what's interesting is from the outside
  • 00:10:52
    that seems totally tone deaf but when I
  • 00:10:55
    come home and I'm having a bad day and
  • 00:10:57
    my wife says to me okay do you want to
  • 00:10:58
    talk about Solutions or do you just need
  • 00:11:00
    to complain and get this off your chest
  • 00:11:02
    I actually really appreciate it right
  • 00:11:04
    because I'm like no no no this isn't a
  • 00:11:05
    big deal I just want to like vent for a
  • 00:11:07
    couple of minutes so asking like I mean
  • 00:11:10
    maybe over a text is not the best way of
  • 00:11:12
    doing it right there might be a little
  • 00:11:14
    slightly graceful more graceful way but
  • 00:11:16
    when you're in that conversation it
  • 00:11:17
    actually feels good to have someone ask
  • 00:11:20
    you what can I do to help you like what
  • 00:11:22
    what are you looking for in this
  • 00:11:24
    conversation that's not something that
  • 00:11:26
    feels this feels ungraceful that feels
  • 00:11:28
    actually very
  • 00:11:29
    welcoming so do you have any advice on
  • 00:11:33
    how to transition from one type of
  • 00:11:36
    conversation to another and I want to
  • 00:11:37
    give you a specific example so let's say
  • 00:11:39
    that I'm in a weekly or monthly
  • 00:11:41
    one-on-one with someone who reports to
  • 00:11:43
    me and there's often well early there's
  • 00:11:45
    chitchat and then we get in like how are
  • 00:11:47
    you doing right there's the the
  • 00:11:49
    emotional like how are things going over
  • 00:11:51
    the past month is there anything we need
  • 00:11:53
    to address in terms of your happiness
  • 00:11:54
    here at the company and at a certain
  • 00:11:56
    point maybe you do need to transition
  • 00:11:57
    that to being more practical goal maybe
  • 00:12:00
    giving feedback or whatever but how does
  • 00:12:01
    one do that elegantly so honestly the
  • 00:12:04
    best way to do it and there's sort of
  • 00:12:05
    two things to do here let's talk about a
  • 00:12:06
    conflict situation and a non-conflict
  • 00:12:08
    situation so in a non-conflict situation
  • 00:12:11
    if you're like you know how are you
  • 00:12:12
    doing here and they're saying oh like
  • 00:12:14
    I'm frustrated with this one thing and
  • 00:12:16
    my wife thinks I'm not home enough you
  • 00:12:18
    know sort of listen say like I've had
  • 00:12:19
    that similar experience myself and at
  • 00:12:22
    some point you can literally just say
  • 00:12:24
    look I we've been talking about how we
  • 00:12:26
    feel is it okay if I propose like a a
  • 00:12:29
    solution to you like if I make a
  • 00:12:31
    suggestion what you're really saying is
  • 00:12:32
    like can I move this conversation from
  • 00:12:34
    an emotional conversation to a practical
  • 00:12:36
    conversation now the fact that you're
  • 00:12:37
    asking permission to do it almost
  • 00:12:39
    inevitably the other person says yes
  • 00:12:41
    right but it also feels like you instead
  • 00:12:44
    of you mandating that they have to have
  • 00:12:45
    a different kind of conversation you're
  • 00:12:47
    inviting them to match you in return so
  • 00:12:50
    that's very elegant it's very graceful
  • 00:12:52
    it doesn't feel weird but let's talk
  • 00:12:54
    about a conflict situation where it's
  • 00:12:55
    like hard to do that right so in a
  • 00:12:58
    conflict situation what's really
  • 00:12:59
    important is that we prove that we're
  • 00:13:02
    listening to the other person and by
  • 00:13:03
    conflict situation I mean even if like
  • 00:13:05
    even if we just disagree about something
  • 00:13:06
    we're talking about something where like
  • 00:13:08
    we just see things a little bit
  • 00:13:09
    differently so maybe it's not a fight
  • 00:13:10
    maybe it's not that hard a conversation
  • 00:13:12
    but it's something where there's a
  • 00:13:13
    little bit of a difference it's really
  • 00:13:15
    important to prove that we're listening
  • 00:13:18
    and there's actually a technique for
  • 00:13:19
    doing this they teach it like Harvard
  • 00:13:21
    and Stanford and all these other fancy
  • 00:13:22
    schools that's known as looping for
  • 00:13:24
    understanding and the reason it's
  • 00:13:26
    important to prove that we're listening
  • 00:13:27
    is because in many any conversations in
  • 00:13:30
    the back of our mind we suspect that the
  • 00:13:33
    other person is not listening they're
  • 00:13:35
    just waiting their turn to speak right
  • 00:13:37
    so that situation you described before
  • 00:13:39
    where it's they they're complaining and
  • 00:13:41
    you want to kind of get it practical if
  • 00:13:43
    you just jump in with a practical it
  • 00:13:45
    seems to the other person they're like
  • 00:13:46
    oh he listened to me like he basically
  • 00:13:48
    sat there while I complained but now
  • 00:13:50
    we're talking about the thing he wants
  • 00:13:51
    to talk about right but if we prove that
  • 00:13:53
    we're listening we overcome that
  • 00:13:55
    suspicion that the other person is just
  • 00:13:57
    waiting their turn to speak and looping
  • 00:13:59
    for understanding does is it has these
  • 00:14:00
    Three Steps step one is ask a question
  • 00:14:03
    preferably a deep question step two is
  • 00:14:05
    after the person has answered the
  • 00:14:06
    question repeat back what they said to
  • 00:14:09
    you in your own words and the key here
  • 00:14:12
    is not mimicry it's to prove to them you
  • 00:14:15
    are paying attention and more
  • 00:14:16
    importantly to prove to them that you're
  • 00:14:18
    processing what they're saying and then
  • 00:14:20
    step three and this is the one we
  • 00:14:21
    usually forget ask if you got it right
  • 00:14:24
    because one of two things will happen
  • 00:14:26
    the first thing is they'll say like no I
  • 00:14:27
    don't think you understood what I was
  • 00:14:28
    saying which is really useful to know
  • 00:14:30
    the second thing is that they'll say
  • 00:14:32
    yeah I think you understood what I was
  • 00:14:33
    saying and what we actually did in that
  • 00:14:35
    moment is we asked them for permission
  • 00:14:38
    to acknowledge that we were listening
  • 00:14:41
    and when they acknowledge that we were
  • 00:14:42
    listening they become more likely to
  • 00:14:43
    listen to us in return so when you're in
  • 00:14:46
    that conversation and you're trying to
  • 00:14:48
    transition to something or when you're
  • 00:14:49
    in a tough conversation and you're
  • 00:14:51
    trying to move it from you know
  • 00:14:53
    criticism to solution finding if you
  • 00:14:57
    prove to the other person that you're
  • 00:14:58
    listening to them them they become much
  • 00:15:00
    much more willing to match you to join
  • 00:15:03
    you in having a more productive
  • 00:15:05
    conversation got it and that can be
  • 00:15:07
    applied you were saying that was like
  • 00:15:09
    more of a conflict approach so that
  • 00:15:10
    could be applied with a spouse
  • 00:15:11
    significant other that could be applied
  • 00:15:13
    at work yeah yeah if you're giving you
  • 00:15:15
    know like when we go in and we give
  • 00:15:17
    someone like some some performance
  • 00:15:18
    feedback that's not overwhelmingly
  • 00:15:20
    positive when we are have a partner and
  • 00:15:23
    we disagree about how to how to move
  • 00:15:25
    forward we have to come to a consensus
  • 00:15:27
    if we prove to each other that we're
  • 00:15:28
    listen as our first and primary goal
  • 00:15:31
    that conversation is going to go much
  • 00:15:32
    much
  • 00:15:34
    better hiring senior developers can
  • 00:15:36
    really move the needle in your business
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    but if you bring on the wrong person you
  • 00:15:40
    can quickly burn through your Runway if
  • 00:15:43
    you need help finding a vetted senior
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    results oriented developer you should
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    reach out to today's sponsor
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    lemon. for years they've been helping
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    our audience find highquality Global
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    Talent at competitive rates and they can
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    help you too don't just take my word for
  • 00:15:57
    it listener Dylan Pierce had this to say
  • 00:16:00
    about working with lemon. the machine
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    learning engineer they helped me hire
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    was very professional and even learned a
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    new tech stack to set up an environment
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    to train and deploy machine learning
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    models he documented his work clearly so
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    I could train it in the future with
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    additional data I'm super happy with the
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    results and longtime listener Chaz Yun
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    hired a senior developer from lemon. and
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    said his hire quote definitely knew his
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    stuff provided appropriate feedback and
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    push back and had great communication
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    including very very fluent English he
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    really exceeded my expectations Chaz
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    said he definitely use lemon. again when
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    he's looking for a senior level engineer
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    developer head to lemon. i/ startups
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    that's
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    lemon.
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    startups I want to switch it up a little
  • 00:16:52
    bit cuz we've been talking about like
  • 00:16:53
    close relationships people you work with
  • 00:16:56
    significant others life partners and
  • 00:16:58
    such there's another element to
  • 00:17:01
    communication and I want to give you
  • 00:17:02
    another scenario so we host an event
  • 00:17:05
    called microcom we host twice a year
  • 00:17:07
    where a bunch of entrepreneurs couple
  • 00:17:09
    hundred entrepreneurs get together and
  • 00:17:12
    one of the most valuable parts of the
  • 00:17:14
    event is what we call the hallway track
  • 00:17:16
    which is not the main track it's where
  • 00:17:17
    you go out in the hallway and you're
  • 00:17:18
    talking to other entrepreneurs so
  • 00:17:20
    there's a lot of introverted folks who
  • 00:17:23
    want to connect with other Founders and
  • 00:17:26
    they maybe are not sure like how do I do
  • 00:17:29
    this well how do I not ask the same
  • 00:17:31
    three questions how do I not stay on the
  • 00:17:33
    surface how do I make connections with
  • 00:17:35
    those who I want to connect with do you
  • 00:17:36
    have any advice for those folks yeah
  • 00:17:38
    absolutely there's been a lot of
  • 00:17:40
    experiments on this and and it's
  • 00:17:41
    interesting because I think that people
  • 00:17:42
    who are introverts they think that
  • 00:17:43
    they're at a disadvantage to being a
  • 00:17:45
    super communicator and it's actually not
  • 00:17:47
    true at all in fact one of the things
  • 00:17:49
    that we know is it doesn't matter if
  • 00:17:50
    you're an introvert or extrovert right
  • 00:17:51
    because these are skills really there's
  • 00:17:54
    skills that can be learned by anyone
  • 00:17:55
    moreover what we know is that people who
  • 00:17:57
    are real super communicators
  • 00:17:59
    consistently if you ask them were you
  • 00:18:01
    always good at communication they often
  • 00:18:03
    say no they say things like I had
  • 00:18:05
    trouble making friends in high school
  • 00:18:07
    and so I really had to study how kids
  • 00:18:08
    talk to each other or or my parents got
  • 00:18:10
    divorced and I had to be The Peacemaker
  • 00:18:12
    between them and it's the act of
  • 00:18:14
    thinking about communication that makes
  • 00:18:16
    someone a super Communicator right like
  • 00:18:18
    this is what super communicators do is
  • 00:18:20
    they think a little bit more about just
  • 00:18:22
    what's going on here so here's the thing
  • 00:18:24
    that I would say there was this
  • 00:18:25
    experiment that was done at Harvard
  • 00:18:26
    Business School where they brought a
  • 00:18:28
    bunch of students into a room and they
  • 00:18:29
    said look you're about to have a
  • 00:18:30
    conversation with a stranger and telling
  • 00:18:32
    someone you have to have a conversation
  • 00:18:34
    with a stranger is like one of the most
  • 00:18:35
    anxiety producing things you can do for
  • 00:18:37
    anyone and they said but before you have
  • 00:18:39
    this conversation here's what we want
  • 00:18:40
    you to do take out a piece of paper just
  • 00:18:42
    write down three topics or questions you
  • 00:18:45
    might want to talk about right like
  • 00:18:46
    stupid stuff like are you going to the
  • 00:18:48
    party this weekend you know I just saw
  • 00:18:50
    Dune 2 and I thought it was terrible
  • 00:18:52
    what do you think about it just write
  • 00:18:54
    down three things and so they did they
  • 00:18:56
    stuck them in their pocket then they
  • 00:18:57
    went and they had the conversations and
  • 00:18:58
    afterwards they asked everyone how'
  • 00:19:00
    those conversations go and the
  • 00:19:02
    participant said you know interestingly
  • 00:19:04
    the three things I wrote down they never
  • 00:19:06
    came up but I felt so much more
  • 00:19:09
    confident and calm during that
  • 00:19:11
    conversation I felt like I could really
  • 00:19:13
    focus on the other person so much better
  • 00:19:16
    because I knew that if there was going
  • 00:19:17
    to be that awkward silence I knew what I
  • 00:19:19
    was going to say I knew what I had in my
  • 00:19:20
    back pocket and for introverts in
  • 00:19:22
    particular but this is true for everyone
  • 00:19:24
    the thing that makes conversations hard
  • 00:19:27
    is not the conversation itself
  • 00:19:29
    it's our anxiety about the conversation
  • 00:19:31
    right we're thinking like I'm going to
  • 00:19:33
    go into this hallway I'm going have to
  • 00:19:34
    talk to five people I've never talked to
  • 00:19:36
    before it's going to be exhausting
  • 00:19:37
    there's going to be weird awkward
  • 00:19:38
    silences and so when we can remove that
  • 00:19:41
    anxiety it allows us to tap into our
  • 00:19:44
    natural communication and listening and
  • 00:19:47
    speaking instincts much more easily so
  • 00:19:49
    simply just writing down three things
  • 00:19:52
    that you might want to talk about that
  • 00:19:53
    can that can change things entirely and
  • 00:19:56
    it's what's important to realize is that
  • 00:19:57
    the reason why this is so powerful is
  • 00:19:59
    because communication is homo sapiens
  • 00:20:01
    superpower right it's the reason our
  • 00:20:03
    species has been so successful so as a
  • 00:20:05
    result our brains have evolved to be
  • 00:20:08
    really really good at communication like
  • 00:20:11
    an introvert's brain and an extroverts
  • 00:20:13
    brain and someone who's somewhere on the
  • 00:20:14
    Spectrum their brain all of our brains
  • 00:20:17
    are really good at communication and
  • 00:20:19
    often times what we need to do is we
  • 00:20:21
    need to allow our brains to do what
  • 00:20:24
    they're good at and when we're anxious
  • 00:20:26
    or when we're uptight or when we're like
  • 00:20:28
    okay my goal is I'm I have 30 seconds
  • 00:20:30
    with this person and I I want to impress
  • 00:20:31
    them how smart I am that's when we get
  • 00:20:33
    in the way of our instincts but the more
  • 00:20:35
    we allow ourselves to just do what feels
  • 00:20:39
    natural the better those conversations
  • 00:20:41
    are going to go it reminds me of the
  • 00:20:44
    first time you give a talk in front of a
  • 00:20:47
    bunch of people and you know the
  • 00:20:48
    material Pat you know it forwards and
  • 00:20:51
    backwards and then you get up in front
  • 00:20:52
    and you freeze and the blood you know
  • 00:20:54
    the blood rushes to your head and you
  • 00:20:56
    hair shines up on the back of your neck
  • 00:20:58
    and you become just a presenter yeah and
  • 00:21:01
    you watch it back later it's like it
  • 00:21:02
    wasn't as bad as I thought but like you
  • 00:21:04
    it's the anxiety it's not your ability
  • 00:21:07
    to communicate because when you gave it
  • 00:21:08
    to yourself in the bathroom mirror with
  • 00:21:11
    no anxiety it was a great presentation
  • 00:21:13
    but when you get up in front of people
  • 00:21:15
    right and and the 30th time you give
  • 00:21:17
    that speech when like you're bored by it
  • 00:21:20
    and like so you have zero anxiety cuz
  • 00:21:22
    you're like I know exactly what I'm
  • 00:21:23
    doing that's when all of a sudden on the
  • 00:21:25
    stage you start doing these like
  • 00:21:27
    flourish and these little charismatic
  • 00:21:30
    things it's because you you're not
  • 00:21:31
    thinking about giving the speech you're
  • 00:21:34
    just giving the speech and that frees
  • 00:21:36
    your brain up to let all those instincts
  • 00:21:38
    come out to be like oh here's here's a
  • 00:21:40
    kind of funny joke it's never occurred
  • 00:21:41
    to me before but I'll just tell try this
  • 00:21:42
    joke out and that's why it's so
  • 00:21:44
    important that these are skills is
  • 00:21:46
    because our brains are designed that
  • 00:21:48
    when we identify these skills and we
  • 00:21:50
    practice them our brain makes them into
  • 00:21:52
    habits very very quickly and once
  • 00:21:53
    they're habits we don't have to think
  • 00:21:55
    about them we get to just kind of relax
  • 00:21:58
    and let Let The Habit take over I
  • 00:22:01
    mentioned to you Offline that I listened
  • 00:22:04
    to your book last week as I was driving
  • 00:22:06
    around Iceland and it was it was super
  • 00:22:08
    enjoyable to hear about it one thing
  • 00:22:09
    that struck me and I don't know that you
  • 00:22:12
    phrased it in this way but I was
  • 00:22:13
    thinking man this I can get really good
  • 00:22:15
    at quote unquote Small Talk based on
  • 00:22:18
    some things you said in the book even
  • 00:22:20
    beyond the example we just used at a at
  • 00:22:22
    a conference but like if you're a
  • 00:22:24
    salesperson usually you want to build
  • 00:22:25
    rapport in the first 2 to 3 minutes as
  • 00:22:27
    you're doing a sales demo I interview
  • 00:22:29
    hundreds of startup Founders every year
  • 00:22:30
    or two to you know get in the
  • 00:22:32
    accelerator there's just a lot of times
  • 00:22:33
    when I find them meeting someone new for
  • 00:22:35
    the first time I have a 20-minute call I
  • 00:22:37
    need to get Rapport very quickly and
  • 00:22:39
    usually small talk is just kind of
  • 00:22:41
    garbage right it's like oh where are you
  • 00:22:43
    from what's the weather let you know
  • 00:22:44
    this and that but you had examples of
  • 00:22:47
    like here's a question that most people
  • 00:22:49
    ask here's how to ask it in a way that
  • 00:22:52
    is much more effective can you talk us
  • 00:22:54
    through that absolutely absolutely so in
  • 00:22:57
    the book there's all these stories
  • 00:22:58
    there's like the story of a CIA officer
  • 00:23:00
    who has to like recruit an overseas
  • 00:23:03
    agent and is just terrible at it or you
  • 00:23:06
    know the Big Bang Theory like like why
  • 00:23:08
    the why the writers of The Big Bang
  • 00:23:09
    Theory were able to make it work and at
  • 00:23:11
    the core of a lot of those is is just a
  • 00:23:14
    reframing of what's going on in a
  • 00:23:16
    conversation so like let's say let's say
  • 00:23:19
    it's small talk let's say you meet
  • 00:23:21
    someone you're trying you don't know
  • 00:23:23
    anything about them you're trying to to
  • 00:23:25
    to get to know them and you say like
  • 00:23:28
    like oh you know what part of town do
  • 00:23:29
    you live in and they say I live in the
  • 00:23:32
    Heights that's a dead end right but if
  • 00:23:34
    your next question is oh man the heights
  • 00:23:36
    that's really interesting what do you
  • 00:23:37
    like about it up there like why why did
  • 00:23:39
    you guys decide to move up there that's
  • 00:23:41
    a deep question and what that person is
  • 00:23:43
    going to say is they're going to say
  • 00:23:44
    something like oh you know like my kids
  • 00:23:46
    schools are near there and so we just
  • 00:23:48
    wanted to be close to it and there's
  • 00:23:49
    also this like great Community like like
  • 00:23:51
    we used to live in the valley and like
  • 00:23:52
    we didn't know any of our neighbors and
  • 00:23:54
    now we live up in the Heights and we
  • 00:23:55
    know all of our neighbors so at that
  • 00:23:57
    moment what you can do is you can
  • 00:23:59
    reciprocate and you can say cuz what you
  • 00:24:02
    just told me is you told me you have
  • 00:24:04
    family right Community is important to
  • 00:24:06
    you you've been in this town for a
  • 00:24:08
    little while long enough to at least
  • 00:24:10
    live in two different places I've
  • 00:24:12
    learned so much about you just by asking
  • 00:24:14
    like what do you why what do you like
  • 00:24:15
    about the Heights and at that point I
  • 00:24:17
    can reciprocate and I can say oh it's so
  • 00:24:18
    interesting you know I have two kids
  • 00:24:19
    also and we actually we live we live
  • 00:24:22
    over in a different part of town in
  • 00:24:24
    Midtown but but it's similarly the
  • 00:24:26
    reason I love it is because like we just
  • 00:24:28
    know our neighborhoods and it's such a
  • 00:24:29
    diverse neighborhood like there's all
  • 00:24:31
    these people from different sort of
  • 00:24:32
    socioeconomic backgrounds it's just
  • 00:24:34
    really interesting now we're actually
  • 00:24:36
    communicating with each other right now
  • 00:24:38
    we're actually bonding a little bit and
  • 00:24:40
    that doesn't mean we're going to be best
  • 00:24:41
    friends but it definitely means that we
  • 00:24:43
    are making a connection we feel like we
  • 00:24:46
    know something about each other and all
  • 00:24:48
    it took to do that was just to ask you a
  • 00:24:50
    question about how you feel about
  • 00:24:52
    something and then to reciprocate what
  • 00:24:55
    I'm hearing and is that something that
  • 00:24:57
    you yourself do like if you go to a
  • 00:24:58
    dinner party oh I do it all the time
  • 00:25:00
    yeah oh yeah yeah I do it literally all
  • 00:25:02
    the time I mean like there's this guy
  • 00:25:03
    named Nick Appley at the University of
  • 00:25:05
    Chicago who he he plays this game where
  • 00:25:07
    he'll get on a bus and his goal within
  • 00:25:10
    three questions of sitting down next to
  • 00:25:11
    a stranger is to get them talking about
  • 00:25:13
    their hopes and dreams and he says
  • 00:25:15
    usually it takes two questions because
  • 00:25:18
    he'll sit down next someone and he'll be
  • 00:25:19
    like hey what do you do for a living and
  • 00:25:20
    they're like I'm an accountant and he's
  • 00:25:22
    like oh did you always want to be an
  • 00:25:23
    accountant was that your dream when you
  • 00:25:24
    were a kid and they're like no of course
  • 00:25:26
    not who who has a dream to be an
  • 00:25:27
    accountant as a kid right no I wanted to
  • 00:25:30
    be an astronaut and then they're Off to
  • 00:25:31
    the Races they're talking about dreams
  • 00:25:33
    their dreams when they were young like I
  • 00:25:36
    I do it all the time and once you pra
  • 00:25:38
    again once you practice it like once or
  • 00:25:39
    twice it becomes a habit and it's so
  • 00:25:42
    easy it's so easy to connect with other
  • 00:25:45
    people simply by just asking them like a
  • 00:25:48
    what seems like a fairly benign question
  • 00:25:50
    yeah that's fascinating because it's
  • 00:25:53
    when I first read the summary of super
  • 00:25:55
    communicators before I listened to the
  • 00:25:57
    book I thought it was going to be about
  • 00:26:00
    almost like I don't know if you've read
  • 00:26:02
    the book crucial conversations yeah you
  • 00:26:04
    know it's about having hard
  • 00:26:05
    conversations or or being able to
  • 00:26:08
    communicate complex things or whatever
  • 00:26:10
    but it really runs the gamut because you
  • 00:26:12
    and I just in this 20-minute
  • 00:26:13
    conversation have talked about small
  • 00:26:15
    talk we've talked about dealing with a
  • 00:26:17
    significant other spouse a life partner
  • 00:26:19
    we've talked about dealing with direct
  • 00:26:20
    reports we've talked about being at a
  • 00:26:22
    conference which I guess is kind of
  • 00:26:24
    small talk but it's different so it
  • 00:26:26
    really the the the super communic
  • 00:26:29
    moniker that you're talking about and
  • 00:26:30
    that you describe in the book really
  • 00:26:33
    does cover the gamut of personto person
  • 00:26:36
    interactions oh absolutely and if you
  • 00:26:39
    think about it like what do we what do
  • 00:26:41
    we consistently spend most of our time
  • 00:26:43
    doing so like we all eat once a once or
  • 00:26:47
    twice a day or three times a day right
  • 00:26:48
    or more we all sleep every single night
  • 00:26:51
    but if you think if you were to actually
  • 00:26:52
    log most of the minutes you spend
  • 00:26:56
    certainly in the top three if not the
  • 00:26:57
    top one would be communicating with
  • 00:26:59
    other people right it's like asking your
  • 00:27:01
    kids like how you doing you're getting
  • 00:27:03
    to school today ordering a coffee right
  • 00:27:05
    talking to the Barista to give her your
  • 00:27:07
    order calling the person you're working
  • 00:27:09
    on some project with communication is at
  • 00:27:12
    the core of what we do and so so you're
  • 00:27:15
    exactly right like being a super
  • 00:27:16
    Communicator it's not about hard
  • 00:27:18
    conversations it's about all
  • 00:27:20
    conversations and that actually brings
  • 00:27:22
    me to an interesting question and you
  • 00:27:24
    may have addressed this in the book I
  • 00:27:26
    definitely was daydreaming a bit staring
  • 00:27:27
    at the Volos and the mountains is
  • 00:27:29
    driving through Iceland so something
  • 00:27:31
    that occurred to me is a lot of my
  • 00:27:33
    communication is via email and DM and
  • 00:27:37
    slack like it's not verbal you know you
  • 00:27:38
    and I on this again in the last 20
  • 00:27:40
    minutes we talked a lot about verbal
  • 00:27:42
    yeah does it change is it different when
  • 00:27:44
    you're typing the same principles apply
  • 00:27:47
    but the important thing is to recognize
  • 00:27:49
    that each form of communication has
  • 00:27:50
    slightly different rules right so one of
  • 00:27:53
    my favorite examples of this just to put
  • 00:27:54
    it in context is about a hundred years
  • 00:27:56
    ago when telephones were first becoming
  • 00:27:58
    popular there were all these articles
  • 00:28:00
    that appeared that said no one will ever
  • 00:28:03
    have a real conversation over a
  • 00:28:04
    telephone because think about up to that
  • 00:28:06
    moment all conversations had happened
  • 00:28:08
    basically face to face right and they
  • 00:28:10
    said look if you can't see the other
  • 00:28:12
    person you're not going to be able to
  • 00:28:13
    understand what they're feeling you're
  • 00:28:14
    going to miss all their facial
  • 00:28:15
    expressions their gestures what's
  • 00:28:17
    interesting is that at the time they
  • 00:28:19
    were exactly right so if you listen to
  • 00:28:22
    early phone conversations or transcripts
  • 00:28:24
    of early phone conversations what you
  • 00:28:26
    see is that people basically use them as
  • 00:28:28
    telegrams like they would call up and
  • 00:28:30
    give someone a grocery list or a stock
  • 00:28:32
    order but they didn't know how to have a
  • 00:28:33
    back and forth now by the time you and I
  • 00:28:36
    were in in middle school we could talk
  • 00:28:37
    for like 7 hours a night on the phone
  • 00:28:39
    right like they were the most meaningful
  • 00:28:40
    conversations of our lives and that's
  • 00:28:42
    because we learned the rules for talking
  • 00:28:45
    on phones one of the rules and you still
  • 00:28:47
    live by it I live by it we all do
  • 00:28:48
    subconscious without even realizing it
  • 00:28:50
    when we're talking to someone on the
  • 00:28:51
    phone and we can't see them we over
  • 00:28:53
    enunciate our words by about 15 or 20%
  • 00:28:56
    we put about a third more emotion into
  • 00:28:59
    our voice because we know the other
  • 00:29:00
    person can't see our facial expressions
  • 00:29:03
    we do that without even thinking about
  • 00:29:04
    it now the thing is that there are
  • 00:29:06
    slightly different rules for phone
  • 00:29:08
    conversations as face than face to-face
  • 00:29:10
    conversations the same thing is true of
  • 00:29:12
    DMS and texting and sending a messages
  • 00:29:15
    with Emojis and sending an email versus
  • 00:29:17
    having a zoom call right when we get
  • 00:29:20
    into trouble is when we forget the rules
  • 00:29:23
    or we or we it's not even like we forget
  • 00:29:25
    the rules we just don't pay attention to
  • 00:29:26
    them so I know that if I'm going to send
  • 00:29:29
    you something hard like it's better to
  • 00:29:31
    do it if I can do it over voice that'd
  • 00:29:33
    be great and if I can't it's definitely
  • 00:29:34
    better to do it over email than it is
  • 00:29:37
    over text right like that's not a huge
  • 00:29:40
    Discovery but when we're moving really
  • 00:29:43
    fast and we're just thinking about
  • 00:29:44
    ourselves and we're just thinking about
  • 00:29:45
    getting the information across we forget
  • 00:29:47
    to remind ourselves like what are the
  • 00:29:48
    rules of texting versus DMS versus
  • 00:29:51
    something else that's when we suddenly
  • 00:29:53
    send that text that the other person
  • 00:29:54
    reads and they get pissed off because
  • 00:29:56
    they took it out of context
  • 00:29:58
    so the only real difference all the same
  • 00:30:00
    principles apply the difference is that
  • 00:30:04
    there are slightly different rules and
  • 00:30:06
    slightly different strengths or
  • 00:30:07
    weaknesses for each channel of
  • 00:30:08
    communication and we just have to we
  • 00:30:11
    have to remind ourselves of that and if
  • 00:30:13
    folks want to dig in deeper they can buy
  • 00:30:15
    Super communicators wherever greater
  • 00:30:17
    books are sold Amazon I got mine on
  • 00:30:19
    Audible of course and uh folks want to
  • 00:30:22
    keep up with you they can head to
  • 00:30:23
    Charles dog.com that's DUI g g or you're
  • 00:30:28
    also C doig on Twitter SLX Charles yeah
  • 00:30:33
    thanks so much for joining me today
  • 00:30:35
    thank you for having me this has been so
  • 00:30:36
    much fun thanks again to Charles for
  • 00:30:38
    joining me on startups for the rest of
  • 00:30:40
    us hope you enjoyed this episode
  • 00:30:42
    obviously a little different than some
  • 00:30:44
    episodes of this podcast but I like to
  • 00:30:46
    broaden my own Horizons as you can tell
  • 00:30:49
    from I think I'm at
  • 00:30:51
    94 audiobooks in my audible account and
  • 00:30:55
    sometimes I like to share topics that
  • 00:30:57
    may not be in the direct focused
  • 00:31:00
    wheelhouse that you might experience
  • 00:31:02
    week to week on this show but know that
  • 00:31:05
    if you come back to this podcast again
  • 00:31:07
    next week it will continue to have
  • 00:31:10
    content information insights and
  • 00:31:12
    hopefully inspiration to motivate you to
  • 00:31:14
    continue building your company my
  • 00:31:16
    mission is to multiply the world's
  • 00:31:17
    population of independent
  • 00:31:19
    self-sustaining startups and that's why
  • 00:31:21
    I record this podcast each week that's
  • 00:31:23
    why it focuses on building incredible
  • 00:31:25
    businesses that may not change the world
  • 00:31:28
    but they can change your life and the
  • 00:31:30
    life of those around you thanks so much
  • 00:31:31
    for joining me this week and every week
  • 00:31:33
    this is Rob Walling signing off from
  • 00:31:35
    episode 723
  • 00:31:39
    [Music]
  • 00:31:40
    [Applause]
  • 00:31:46
    [Music]
  • 00:31:48
    [Applause]
  • 00:31:50
    [Music]
  • 00:31:54
    [Applause]
  • 00:31:54
    [Music]
Tag
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