00:00:01
drel coming back to the
00:00:03
church in your opinion what is the
00:00:06
biggest difference between the church in
00:00:08
India now and the church in the West in
00:00:10
particular uh uh Church in
00:00:12
America well I'm sorry to say that the
00:00:18
weakness of the church in India is
00:00:21
really weakness of the Church of the
00:00:24
West uh 10 days ago we were in perkley
00:00:29
uh University
00:00:30
California with a conference organized
00:00:34
by successful Indian doctors MH they
00:00:37
worked in India and they came to America
00:00:40
and succeeded in
00:00:42
America and in 2016 they were deeply
00:00:46
concerned about the state of rural
00:00:48
hospitals in
00:00:51
India at the time of Independence
00:00:54
1947 India had 800 Christian Hospitals
00:00:58
and Clinics
00:01:01
today India has only 200 Christian
00:01:03
Hospitals and Clinics the rest are
00:01:05
closed and
00:01:07
sold out of these
00:01:09
200 about 100 are in
00:01:12
ICU struggling for their survival yes
00:01:15
and the chances that they will survive
00:01:17
are very
00:01:19
little so the western
00:01:23
church for 150 years was able to build
00:01:32
Health bring Abundant Life to India
00:01:34
bring health and healing and nurses to
00:01:36
India Indian church is not capable of
00:01:40
sustaining and building upon it what has
00:01:44
happened well the problem is the
00:01:46
American Church 50 years ago in
00:01:50
Minnesota in the Twin Cities of St Paul
00:01:53
and
00:01:54
Minneapolis three out of four hospitals
00:01:56
were Protestant hospital today there's
00:01:59
not a single Protestant Hospital in
00:02:02
Minneapolis St
00:02:05
Paul there are still two three Jew Roman
00:02:07
Catholic Hospitals but no Protestant
00:02:11
Hospital Protestant what we we proud of
00:02:16
idas SC Edith Brown CM Cil or CMC
00:02:20
Lana America doesn't have one
00:02:22
respectable Protestant Medical
00:02:24
University
00:02:25
now the last big one was the Oral
00:02:28
Roberts University a Medical University
00:02:31
that was sold to lalinda 7day Adventist
00:02:35
good lalinda is a very good uh 7day
00:02:37
Adventist School Protestant Church in
00:02:41
America is not interested in Abundant
00:02:44
Life for the sick the poor the
00:02:48
needy
00:02:51
so last year 171 colleges Christian
00:02:55
colleges closed down in
00:02:58
America sad
00:03:00
so if the Indian church is not capable
00:03:04
of running the colleges the university
00:03:07
movement that it received it is because
00:03:10
the Western Christianity has been
00:03:12
corrupted by the Western
00:03:15
seminaries it's a very different
00:03:18
Spirit um so what was it in the spirit
00:03:23
of the 17th 18th 19th early 20th century
00:03:28
that was building these nations blessing
00:03:31
these
00:03:32
nations which has
00:03:35
disappeared and Christianity in the west
00:03:39
America Evangelical Christianity is the
00:03:42
most pessimistic Escapist defeated
00:03:49
religion Indian Christian leaders come
00:03:51
here they want to raise money they
00:03:55
cannot speak
00:03:57
prophetically into the damage that
00:04:00
American theology has done to American
00:04:04
Christianity and that is reflected in
00:04:07
Indian chrisan on the liberal Wing so
00:04:10
one big
00:04:12
problem was
00:04:14
1910
00:04:17
Edinburgh conference on world
00:04:20
missions William Kerry had proposed that
00:04:23
100 years earlier but for 100 years the
00:04:25
Western missions couldn't organize a
00:04:27
global consultation conference on World
00:04:30
missions when they organized it in
00:04:32
Edinburgh Scotland
00:04:35
1910 the Protestant movement
00:04:39
split into Social Gospel and simple
00:04:44
gospel the social gospel movement
00:04:47
surrendered to secularism rationalism
00:04:49
became liberal had no gospel eventually
00:04:53
yes but the simple Gospel Movement
00:04:57
rejected the rich Legacy m
00:05:00
of the Abundant Life The Blessing the
00:05:06
political
00:05:08
legal um judicial medical educational so
00:05:13
the we mentioned Med Healthcare but the
00:05:17
entire agricultural Green Revolution in
00:05:21
India came with the gospel it's William
00:05:24
Kerry a cobbler Bible translators who is
00:05:27
create helping to create the IND civil
00:05:30
services he begins the first Agri
00:05:32
Horticultural Society 1820 you can go
00:05:35
into Agri Horticultural Society in Katan
00:05:39
and his marble bust as I mentioned would
00:05:41
welcome you but then sarur coton the
00:05:45
cotton barage he's turning the whole
00:05:48
godavari Delta into the rice bowl of
00:05:51
India rice bowl of India exactly he is a
00:05:54
military engineer who is asked to build
00:05:57
a bridge over godavari he says no we
00:06:00
have to build a dam we have to build the
00:06:02
canal system and he has to fight now he
00:06:05
his father is an evangelist his daughter
00:06:07
is an evangelist Elizabeth May who lives
00:06:09
next door to Charles Darwin uh and so
00:06:14
he's a witness now I can go on talk
00:06:17
about the ganga canals and the Punjab
00:06:19
Canal system how the evangelicals built
00:06:22
it Sam hgan botam comes he is a
00:06:26
philosopher who has come to reach the
00:06:28
dalits mhm but he's told to teach
00:06:31
economics he says I don't know how
00:06:33
economics how can I teach they said know
00:06:35
you study economics and teach and he
00:06:37
finds the nothing of British American
00:06:40
economic textbooks have any relevance to
00:06:42
alabad because there is no Bank there is
00:06:44
no insurance system there is no
00:06:48
um trade Etc so he finds that the best
00:06:53
economic activity in alahabad is
00:06:54
happening in N jail there is a military
00:06:58
uh colonel who has been appointed Jailer
00:07:01
and he's decided that every prisoner who
00:07:03
comes into this jail must go out as a
00:07:04
better person so he is teaching himself
00:07:07
how to look after cows and go goats and
00:07:10
chicken and how to make smoke free
00:07:13
Chulas and heat efficient cooking
00:07:16
systems and he's teaching all the
00:07:18
prisoners so saman bam is inspired to
00:07:21
start a laal agricultural Institute
00:07:23
which is now in agricultural
00:07:26
University
00:07:27
yes so the miss movement is the the
00:07:31
white Revolution white revolution in
00:07:34
1998 India became number one producer of
00:07:38
milk beating
00:07:40
America and that milk Revolution also
00:07:43
began in alahabad agriculture Institute
00:07:44
with saman bam buying a Cow Milking the
00:07:47
cow because his wife was angry that she
00:07:50
can't get clean milk in alabad for her
00:07:53
children uh so he had already worked in
00:07:56
da as a young man and but he gave a
00:07:59
lecture in Princeton Theological
00:08:01
Seminary in
00:08:03
1919 on the kettle problem of India so
00:08:07
here is a
00:08:09
philosopher who is speaking in Bible
00:08:12
seminary in Princeton on the kettle
00:08:15
problem of India that is published in
00:08:19
1921 in 1924 the first modern animal
00:08:23
husbandry begins in alahad and one in
00:08:25
South India somewhere near Vora I
00:08:28
forgotten where
00:08:30
out of that in 74
00:08:32
years the milk
00:08:35
revolution has happened in India based
00:08:37
on Buffalo not on cows um but that's
00:08:41
another story then comes Norman burlock
00:08:44
during Mrs Gandhi's time with Ashok Maha
00:08:47
bringing him to begin India's Green
00:08:51
Revolution so the entire transformation
00:08:53
of India's Agriculture and milk is an
00:08:56
Evangelical
00:08:57
movement but which Seminary is teaching
00:09:00
this yes which church history program is
00:09:03
teaching the Bible's impact and this is
00:09:07
because the American Church historians
00:09:09
don't know anything they know they know
00:09:10
that William Kerry is the father of
00:09:12
modern missions they don't know that
00:09:14
William Kerry is the father of modern
00:09:15
India because to make that claim you
00:09:17
have to know enough about Indian history
00:09:20
and if you don't know Indian history you
00:09:21
only know church history you can't know
00:09:23
that William Kerry is the father of
00:09:25
modern India so the degeneration of the
00:09:28
Christian mind in the west has impacted
00:09:32
the degeneration of the Christian mind
00:09:34
in India now this is very strong words
00:09:38
but CS Lewis one of Lewis's prodiges was
00:09:43
uh blamar Harry blamar he wrote a book
00:09:46
called the Christian
00:09:47
mind that book begins with the statement
00:09:51
that there is no such thing as a
00:09:52
Christian mind now this is
00:09:54
1960s Christian mind is dead in the West
00:09:59
now and he was
00:10:01
right Mark null is one of the most
00:10:04
respected Evangelical historians in
00:10:08
America he followed up with a book
00:10:11
called the scandal of the Evangelical
00:10:14
mind this is a
00:10:16
book Scandal of the Evangelical
00:10:19
mind and he begins by saying that the
00:10:23
scandal of the Evangelical mind is that
00:10:25
there is very little of it
00:10:29
M so you know we we talking about Indian
00:10:31
history we're talking about milk
00:10:33
production then the whole milk
00:10:34
revolution in India white revolution in
00:10:36
India is a result of a lecture given by
00:10:40
a philosopher in a Theological Seminary
00:10:43
in America but which Theological
00:10:45
Seminary in India today would have a
00:10:48
lecture on the cattle problem of
00:10:50
India so
00:10:53
so you you asked me what's the
00:10:56
difference between the American
00:10:58
Christianity and Indian Christianity and
00:11:00
I'm saying that Indian Christianity is
00:11:02
the victim of American Christianity
00:11:05
American Christianity has blessed us but
00:11:08
also imposed its own weaknesses and
00:11:10
Foles upon us our preachers our
00:11:14
theologians they come here to get a PhD
00:11:17
they come here to raise money they
00:11:20
cannot exercise prophetic ministry here
00:11:23
because they cannot afford to displease
00:11:26
the Christian leadership in America
00:11:29
which has messed up this nation and has
00:11:32
messed up
00:11:34
India let us uh wrap up quickly Dr Ral
00:11:38
you were talking about in the beginning
00:11:40
that uh we need to study both the word
00:11:42
of God and the works of God taking from
00:11:45
Francis Bacon and then just now a little
00:11:48
while ago you said that simple gospel
00:11:51
has lost uh this um social concern and
00:11:54
the Social Gospel uh is given to
00:11:57
secularism and rationalism so what
00:12:00
should be the approach of the church and
00:12:03
the stand of the church um having said
00:12:06
all this uh for the future praise God
00:12:10
that we can turn the poorest the weakest
00:12:13
Church in India into the world's finest
00:12:18
University it needs no professors it
00:12:21
needs no
00:12:22
buildings it needs change of Outlook of
00:12:25
the
00:12:26
pastor if the pastor would become a
00:12:28
shepherd
00:12:30
M 10 15 students coming into the church
00:12:34
5 days a
00:12:35
week we will send 5,000 professors into
00:12:39
the church
00:12:40
online every student can be tested and
00:12:44
assessed according to his ability and
00:12:47
interest a privatized curriculum can be
00:12:51
developed so every single lesson a week
00:12:54
scores a month scores a semester scores
00:12:57
and when you have done 120 credits in
00:13:00
American sense you qualified for a
00:13:03
bachelor's
00:13:04
degree so every the poorest Church in
00:13:07
India can be giving bachelor's
00:13:11
degree master's degree
00:13:16
online this is not Theory this is
00:13:19
exactly how
00:13:21
RI is the first engineering College in
00:13:24
India now it's IIT yes it began under a
00:13:28
tree
00:13:29
with an son of a pastor who was an
00:13:32
military
00:13:33
engineer saying that we should not be
00:13:36
worshipping ganga we should be building
00:13:40
ganga barage channeling the water in
00:13:43
1840s this is 17 years before the Mutiny
00:13:47
before the Revolt 1840 there was a
00:13:49
famine in North India there is so much
00:13:52
water in ganga and
00:13:54
Y the land between the two rivers is
00:13:57
called daa land of Two Rivers
00:14:00
why is there this water not being used
00:14:03
to
00:14:05
irrigate the Hindu Brahman pandits do
00:14:09
not want you to mess with holy
00:14:12
ganga they are opposing building of the
00:14:16
barrage and the ganga
00:14:20
Canal on YouTube there is a very
00:14:22
powerful video on the ganga Canal made
00:14:26
by the current director of ganga Canal
00:14:30
project who is a Hindu and he's saying
00:14:32
this that the pandits were opposing
00:14:35
building of Ganga bar so the British had
00:14:39
to negotiate that okay we will
00:14:41
build uh GS where people can come and
00:14:45
bathe even during monsoon they will not
00:14:48
drown because we will control the flow
00:14:50
of the water and then this water will
00:14:52
irrigate whole of North India but there
00:14:54
are no engineers in India to build the
00:14:57
canals so to to train Engineers that you
00:15:01
have to get some young men who want to
00:15:04
establish human dominion over the river
00:15:06
instead of worshipping the river so they
00:15:08
build
00:15:10
uh the characters are very interesting
00:15:13
who are building this ganga Canal system
00:15:16
the barage system and irrigation system
00:15:20
uh which to irrigate North India and
00:15:23
that grows into the ri engineering
00:15:26
College which becomes Engineering
00:15:28
University which BEC comes I RI this is
00:15:31
entirely Evangelical movement and these
00:15:33
are military engineers and governors who
00:15:36
are all products of the Evangelical
00:15:38
movement um so what was their biblical
00:15:42
worldview that God wants to bless India
00:15:46
that God has given India to us not to
00:15:50
loot India but to bless India and that's
00:15:53
what has brought them here so the under
00:15:57
the Evangelical influence Britain had
00:15:59
three colleges to train civil servants
00:16:03
one was in Kolkata Fort William College
00:16:05
two were in England where younger kids
00:16:08
went one of them was military leaders
00:16:11
including military engineers who were
00:16:14
building these Canal systems roads
00:16:15
Bridges Etc to transform India but none
00:16:20
of this history interests our
00:16:23
theologians and our
00:16:24
seminaries and so your question is what
00:16:28
can we do for the the church well the
00:16:30
answer is that this third education
00:16:33
Revolution can deliver the Indian Church
00:16:36
from the corrupting influence of
00:16:38
American Theology and we can transform
00:16:42
every Church in India into the force
00:16:46
that will move the backward cast and
00:16:49
backward the scheduled cast schedule
00:16:50
tribes obcs forward giving them the best
00:16:55
teaching at the cheapest rate the using
00:17:00
uh internet artificial intelligence
00:17:04
Etc the decisive question is whether the
00:17:08
pastors see themselves as uh Shepherds
00:17:13
or not what do you mean by pastors as
00:17:15
Shepherds can you briefly
00:17:18
explain
00:17:19
um well I I should stick with with the
00:17:23
education though I wanted to go into
00:17:25
agriculture when I was teaching in
00:17:27
alahad Sami badam University one day one
00:17:31
of my students asked me sir do you want
00:17:33
to go to the other side of the river to
00:17:34
see Islam I said sure now we were not
00:17:38
allowed to swim across the river because
00:17:40
too dirty too dangerous so we had to
00:17:42
cycle around when I went
00:17:45
there there was a young man 17year old
00:17:49
with torn clothes teaching 30 kids who
00:17:53
were sitting on a street this is a dead
00:17:55
end Street there's no traffic on both
00:17:58
sides mothers and sisters are cleaning
00:18:00
vegetables cleaning dishes cooking
00:18:02
dinner he's teaching them the kids are
00:18:05
excited that a university Professor has
00:18:07
come they stand up and sing it they all
00:18:09
from Hindu homes they sing a Christian
00:18:11
song I'm very
00:18:13
impressed by this young man I invite him
00:18:17
to come for a Saturday dinner he comes
00:18:22
home he eats with me we walk around in
00:18:25
the campus of shuats
00:18:28
next day he attends the church following
00:18:31
weekend he comes again spends the night
00:18:33
with me the third weekend by that time
00:18:36
we've become good friends so he tells me
00:18:38
sir this year I'm not going to pass my
00:18:40
intermediate exam I'll
00:18:42
fail why because I don't understand math
00:18:46
why not well the teacher doesn't explain
00:18:49
to us there are some students they
00:18:52
understand what he's teaching but these
00:18:54
are students who are taking private
00:18:55
tutions from him he is a government
00:18:59
teacher he's not allowed to take private
00:19:01
tution but his sister-in-law is allowed
00:19:04
so she runs the tution center he teaches
00:19:08
she collects the
00:19:10
money I can't pay so we don't understand
00:19:14
what he's saying so we'll fail my home
00:19:17
is about 100 km away my father has no
00:19:21
confidence Village in Village School he
00:19:23
sent me to the city school hoping that
00:19:25
City will school will be better I I live
00:19:29
with four other young men in a one room
00:19:32
apartment all of them have dropped out
00:19:34
of school they're working as daily wage
00:19:37
laborers Etc the TV is on 24 hours I
00:19:41
can't concentrate and the exams are 3
00:19:43
months
00:19:45
away so I said to him okay you come move
00:19:48
in with my me for 3
00:19:50
months the university had given me a lap
00:19:53
desktop which I was not using so I set
00:19:55
it up for him enrolled him in KH Academy
00:19:59
it's K and Khan Academy which is a
00:20:02
mathematics teaching
00:20:04
program he could read English but he
00:20:06
didn't understand so I taught him how to
00:20:09
translate the content of Khan Academy
00:20:12
using Google translat dictionary.com Etc
00:20:15
into Hindi so our dining table became
00:20:19
his language
00:20:21
school I gave him a bilingual Bible
00:20:24
English and Hindi so he could read Hindi
00:20:27
and English Bible to understand learn
00:20:31
English our conversation about English
00:20:34
language became lessons in philosophy
00:20:36
theology apologetics Hinduism Buddhism
00:20:41
Etc he fell in love with math thanks to
00:20:44
Khan
00:20:46
Academy and 3 months later passed
00:20:49
intermediate in first
00:20:53
division
00:20:55
now between the ex exams and the
00:21:02
results 3 months summer I asked Dr ral's
00:21:07
assistant to give Bishop L's bicycle to
00:21:11
him Bishop L had bought some bicycles
00:21:14
which he was not allowed to use he had
00:21:16
to go in car so his Cycles were been
00:21:19
sitting so this guy started going to
00:21:22
another slum got 20 30 kids with
00:21:27
him and started teaching
00:21:31
them uh there was a friend from Dallas
00:21:37
M who was visiting
00:21:39
me and he went to see this school in the
00:21:44
slum and he decided to donate 13 tablets
00:21:49
oh for $30 each he bought wholesale from
00:21:53
pun to donate 30 tablets we downloaded
00:21:57
the entire High School curriculum from
00:21:59
up government on each of the tablets so
00:22:03
three students who are 5y old of two
00:22:06
students who are six-year-old would
00:22:07
study together with one tablet and help
00:22:10
each other learn and he will walk around
00:22:12
to make sure that they understand that
00:22:14
they are not fighting that they are
00:22:16
studying Etc so one man who doesn't have
00:22:19
clothes torn up clothes he has 13 uh
00:22:23
tablets he's teaching about 30 students
00:22:27
every day I'll go once in a week to play
00:22:29
with them talk to talk to the kids there
00:22:32
is no electricity no internet in the
00:22:35
slum so the tablets have to come to my
00:22:37
home every day and to be recharged
00:22:41
MH now I had a very good friend Arun
00:22:47
sh's nephew his wife was
00:22:50
malali she sent it big jar of fish
00:22:53
pickle Kerala fish
00:22:56
pickle so this guy
00:22:59
Kip he's eating that fish pickle he
00:23:01
loves it he wants the fish pickle every
00:23:03
day so he says I will learn to make fish
00:23:06
pickle and eat every day I said I said
00:23:09
no no no no you get those women whose
00:23:12
children you are
00:23:13
teaching ask them to make fish pickle
00:23:16
every morning in the Bank of Y there is
00:23:20
Fish
00:23:21
Market they should pick up the best fish
00:23:24
they should learn to make fish pickle
00:23:25
now they don't they living in Islam they
00:23:27
don't have any kitchen m
00:23:29
one of the professors lady she offered
00:23:31
to teach them how to make fish pickle
00:23:33
mhm and I said that during the day I'm
00:23:36
not at home they can use my kitchen to
00:23:38
make fish pickle you pack it King's Fish
00:23:42
pickle mhm and we have 1,200 families
00:23:46
working in the University you sell it to
00:23:49
them you get to eat fish pickle the
00:23:52
women who are collecting plastic
00:23:55
bottles have now learned a skill M if
00:23:59
they can make fish pickle they can make
00:24:01
chili pickle and lime pickle and mango
00:24:03
pickle and lemon pickle and you Market
00:24:06
it yes this is your
00:24:08
business
00:24:09
now this young man is not a
00:24:15
theologian he's not a teacher but he is
00:24:19
a
00:24:20
Shepherd who is making a difference to
00:24:24
the minds of these
00:24:25
children and changing the economy of the
00:24:31
women who are living in the
00:24:34
slums now in other shepherding is
00:24:37
building their lives for the
00:24:39
future this is what every Pastor can do
00:24:44
to
00:24:45
educate the
00:24:47
poor organize them as health
00:24:51
cooperatives agricultural cooperatives
00:24:54
an
00:24:55
illiterate woman
00:25:00
has very little she can do in the
00:25:02
village she can't
00:25:04
Farm can she roast peanuts can she fry
00:25:09
peanuts spicy peanuts plain
00:25:12
peanuts can those peanuts be packed by a
00:25:16
young man with good brand M King's
00:25:20
peanut King spicy peanuts exported all
00:25:24
over the
00:25:27
world that that woman if we give her a
00:25:30
little credit to buy the right oil right
00:25:33
spices and they may not she may not have
00:25:35
a kitchen so but we could rent a kitchen
00:25:39
where women can come okay Monday morning
00:25:41
you and Monday afternoon you and Monday
00:25:44
night you so the 24 hours that kitchen
00:25:46
is being used and the simple people are
00:25:51
learning how to make
00:25:53
money and this is being exported
00:25:56
globally if they are repaying their debt
00:26:00
this is micr financing they're repaying
00:26:02
their
00:26:03
debt then you have um a credit history
00:26:09
that when that your son needs a laptop
00:26:12
because tablet is not good enough
00:26:14
anymore to learn statistics and learn
00:26:15
designing and this and
00:26:17
that you have a credit history that he
00:26:20
can
00:26:21
buy on loan a laptop yes so you need to
00:26:26
organize we know haven't talked about
00:26:29
health cooperatives but agricultural
00:26:31
Cooperative Dair cooperatives Agri AG
00:26:35
Enterprises Cooperative uh Health
00:26:37
cooperatives Etc this is what Shepherds
00:26:40
need to be doing but we are victims of a
00:26:45
theology here in America that oh Jesus
00:26:48
will come back when the last unreached
00:26:50
people group has heard the gospel
00:26:52
there's no need for us to make a
00:26:54
difference to their education or to make
00:26:56
a difference to their economy or their
00:26:57
health care or teach them Banking and
00:27:00
Cooperative movement but this a new kind
00:27:03
of a pastor who is a Shepherd to the
00:27:08
Sheep this is what is needed and this is
00:27:12
one of the first courses that we intend
00:27:13
to offer a a ba or an MA or a diploma if
00:27:20
you don't qualify for a ba in how to be
00:27:24
a teacher so here is the 17 18y old boy
00:27:27
who is become a teacher how to be a
00:27:30
teacher using available
00:27:32
technology and a Shepherd so applied
00:27:36
Theology and not the Tulip kind of
00:27:39
theology which is abstract discussion
00:27:42
that has no uh meaning or significance
00:27:46
so that's this mission of the third
00:27:49
education Revolution which we can
00:27:52
transform every village the remotest and
00:27:55
the poorest Village in India if we can
00:27:59
be freed from the corruption of
00:28:03
Christian theology in the west that has
00:28:06
damaged the Indian
00:28:09
church thank you so much Dr Vel well
00:28:12
thank you for coming and explanation
00:28:15
thank you we had planned this but as you
00:28:19
edit and post it hopefully it will have
00:28:22
an impact in Indian church and Beyond
00:28:25
yeah thank you even to Alex um thank you
00:28:29
for his patient uh tech
00:28:32
support thank you so much I hope our
00:28:34
viewers enjoy this and be enlightened
00:28:37
yes well thank you thank you so much
00:28:39
thank you yeah God bless
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