Inside Elon’s Attack on the US Government | Elon, Inc.

00:32:01
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6YLI0DDtTg

摘要

TLDRIn a recent Bloomberg podcast, hosts discuss Elon Musk's rising influence in U.S. politics, with particular focus on his confrontational approach with various government agencies, notably USAID. Musk's 'Doge kids'—a team of young tech workers—are assigned to find budget cuts and potentially disrupt existing programs. This strategy, receiving apparent support from the Trump administration, poses risks to essential foreign aid and public welfare initiatives. The conversation also reflects on possible repercussions for Musk's companies amidst declining sales and rising political controversies, emphasizing the interplay between Musk's actions, his business empire, and national governance.

心得

  • 🚀 Elon Musk is now seen as a major player in U.S. politics.
  • 💼 Musk's team confronts USAID seeking budget cuts.
  • 🧐 Legal constraints limit Musk's ability to dismantle agencies.
  • 📉 Tesla's sales decline may correlate with Musk's political actions.
  • ✈️ USAID plays a crucial role in projecting U.S. influence abroad.
  • 🤖 Musk employs young ideologues for political maneuvering.
  • 🔒 Lack of transparency raises concerns about governance.
  • ⚖️ Political pushback is emerging from both parties.
  • 🏛️ Future agency targets may include the Department of Education.
  • ⚡ Musk's actions signal a radical shift in federal policy.

时间轴

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    The podcast discusses Elon Musk's rise to becoming the richest person in the world and the control he exerts over a significant number of satellites. Musk's political positioning, previously aligned with Democrats, has shifted towards Republicans this year, indicating a complex relationship with the U.S. government, which relies heavily on his technology and companies.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    In a shocking development, Musk and his 'Doge team' engaged in controversial actions involving federal departments, particularly targeting USAID for spending cuts. This situation indicates Musk's growing influence and the chaotic nature of his interactions within the government as he attempts to redefine the operations of various agencies.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    The Doge team's access demands at USAID led to an unprecedented confrontation where Musk even threatened to involve the Marshall Service. Their actions raised significant concerns regarding legality and highlighted a disturbing power dynamic between Musk's private interests and federal operations.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Analysts note that the Doge team's approach reflects a broader agenda of trying to restructure federal agencies by sourcing from young technologists aligned with Musk's ideologies. This has evoked fears of inefficiencies, as extraction of funding without due consideration can impact essential humanitarian programs administered by agencies like USAID.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Musk's disregard for traditional bureaucratic structures in favor of aggressive cost-cutting measures draws parallels to previous corporate takedowns he executed at Tesla and SpaceX. These aggressive strategies fuel resentment among civil servants and raise questions about the sustainability of the agencies being disrupted.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:32:01

    As the discussion unfolds, the podcast touches upon the implications of Musk's political and business maneuvers, particularly how they could impact Tesla and other ventures, hinting at polarization in consumer sentiment regarding Tesla amid Musk's increasing political involvement, which may foreshadow challenges ahead for the automotive giant.

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思维导图

视频问答

  • What is Elon Musk's recent role in U.S. government agencies?

    Musk has been directing his 'Doge kids' to engage with federal agencies like USAID, pushing for funding cuts and access to government systems.

  • How did Musk's team confront USAID?

    Musk's team demanded access to USAID offices and threatened legal action, leading to a chaotic scenario.

  • What is the stance of the Trump administration on Musk's actions?

    Musk seems to have the support of the Trump administration, with indications of a coordinated effort to reform or dismantle certain agencies.

  • How are Musk's businesses impacted by his political actions?

    Musk's political activities may be affecting Tesla's sales negatively, especially in California, despite the company's strong global presence.

  • What are the long-term implications for USAID funding?

    There are concerns that cuts to USAID could severely impact various humanitarian programs and American influence globally.

  • What kind of employees make up Musk’s 'Doge kids'?

    Many are young tech workers aligned ideologically with Musk, often lacking formal government experience.

  • What possible agencies might Musk target next?

    Potential targets include the Department of Education, which aligns with Musk's interests.

  • Are there signs of political backlash against Musk's actions?

    Yes, both Republican and Democratic figures have expressed concerns about the consequences of Musk's approach to government operations.

  • What is the driving ideology behind Musk's recent activities?

    Musk's activities seem rooted in a belief in cutting government bureaucracy and promoting an extreme business-focused agenda.

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  • 00:00:00
    [Music]
  • 00:00:02
    Bloomberg audio Studios podcasts radio
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    news Well Elon Musk is now the richest
  • 00:00:14
    person on the planet why than half the
  • 00:00:16
    satellites in space are owned and
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    controlled by one man well he's a
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    legitimate Super Genius I legitimate he
  • 00:00:24
    says he's always voted for Democrats but
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    this year it will be different he'll
  • 00:00:27
    vote Republican there is a reason the US
  • 00:00:30
    government is so reliant on him Alon
  • 00:00:32
    musk is a scam artist and he's done
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    nothing anything he does is fascinating
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    to
  • 00:00:39
    [Music]
  • 00:00:48
    people welcome to Elon Inc Bloomberg's
  • 00:00:50
    weekly podcast about Elon Musk it's
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    Tuesday February 4th I'm your host Max
  • 00:00:55
    chafkin in for David Papadopoulos a few
  • 00:00:58
    months ago many people although not not
  • 00:01:00
    let's be clear the people on this
  • 00:01:02
    podcast were seeing Elon Musk as at best
  • 00:01:07
    sort of a Figure Head within the Trump
  • 00:01:09
    Administration somebody who'd be on a
  • 00:01:10
    blue ribbon panel and would mostly spend
  • 00:01:13
    his time running his six very large very
  • 00:01:15
    important companies but the events of
  • 00:01:17
    the past few days have been shocking
  • 00:01:19
    even to those of us who thought that
  • 00:01:22
    Elon would take a big role starting late
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    last week musk and his doge team members
  • 00:01:27
    went out across numerous Federal
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    departments ments and armed with Trump's
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    executive orders began sewing chaos
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    we're going to get into what happened
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    and what might come next and then take a
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    look at how musk's actual businesses are
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    doing with a trade War at home and all
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    of this musk created chaos and political
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    divisiveness here at home it's a lot to
  • 00:01:51
    discuss all this we have Bloomberg's
  • 00:01:52
    Elon Musk reporter Dana Hull hey Dana
  • 00:01:55
    hey Max and Bloomberg politics reporter
  • 00:01:57
    Ted man joining us from DC hey Ted hey
  • 00:02:00
    and here in New York Anthony Cormier a
  • 00:02:03
    investigative reporter who co-authored a
  • 00:02:05
    great story yesterday from inside the
  • 00:02:07
    offices of musk's attempted takeover of
  • 00:02:11
    usaid Welcome Anthony thanks for having
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    me all right so Anthony you co-wrote
  • 00:02:16
    this story with our colleague Jason
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    leapold it is basically an inside
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    account on on what I what's kind of like
  • 00:02:24
    a battle almost that played out inside
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    of this us Aid which is a a big foreign
  • 00:02:30
    aid office inside the federal government
  • 00:02:32
    just tell us what happened as as far as
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    you understand it well there was a
  • 00:02:36
    really unusual confrontation in fact on
  • 00:02:39
    Saturday between a group of what people
  • 00:02:42
    are calling the Doge kids these are
  • 00:02:44
    young technologists who seem to have an
  • 00:02:47
    ideological bent that is similar to
  • 00:02:50
    elon's and they've been tapped by musk
  • 00:02:52
    and this new Doge team to go in and look
  • 00:02:56
    for spending cuts and they took aim o
  • 00:03:00
    last week at
  • 00:03:01
    usaid and so they show up on Saturday as
  • 00:03:05
    the building is empty and they demand
  • 00:03:08
    access to the entire Suite of offices
  • 00:03:11
    root around and there after some back
  • 00:03:14
    and forth one of the members of the Doge
  • 00:03:16
    team calls Elon himself and Elon gets on
  • 00:03:19
    on the phone with the security office of
  • 00:03:21
    usaid and says look if you don't let us
  • 00:03:23
    in I'm going to call the the the
  • 00:03:25
    Marshall service which is kind of an
  • 00:03:26
    extraordinary circumstance kind of an
  • 00:03:28
    unheard of confrontation between these
  • 00:03:30
    two sides they get in it's our
  • 00:03:33
    understanding that they do in fact go
  • 00:03:35
    through offices they're looking in fact
  • 00:03:37
    in desk drawers and ultimately they they
  • 00:03:40
    want to get into a security office a
  • 00:03:42
    secure facility that you need a certain
  • 00:03:45
    security clearance to get into security
  • 00:03:47
    says no way you can't do it one of our
  • 00:03:49
    piece of our reporting suggests that
  • 00:03:51
    they actually tried to open a locked
  • 00:03:53
    door to this secure facility there's a
  • 00:03:55
    big blowout the security officials are
  • 00:03:57
    put on leave it's unclear at this Point
  • 00:04:00
    whether in fact they they did get into
  • 00:04:01
    this office and what what they were
  • 00:04:02
    seeking okay so I want to get more into
  • 00:04:05
    this confrontation over the weekend
  • 00:04:07
    before we do that Ted there's been a lot
  • 00:04:10
    happening with Doge in Washington we've
  • 00:04:13
    seen musk sort of go after a handful of
  • 00:04:15
    targets the office of personnel
  • 00:04:17
    management which is like HR for the
  • 00:04:18
    government General Services
  • 00:04:20
    Administration which controls I think
  • 00:04:21
    the buildings the treasury Department's
  • 00:04:23
    payment system we talked about that on
  • 00:04:25
    the emergency podcast over the weekend
  • 00:04:27
    can you just sort of put this latest
  • 00:04:29
    thing into context for us sure I mean
  • 00:04:32
    what Anthony's describing is an
  • 00:04:34
    especially dramatic and colorful version
  • 00:04:37
    of what has happened at a bunch of these
  • 00:04:38
    other offices you just mentioned where
  • 00:04:39
    these Landing teams of Doge employees
  • 00:04:42
    are just showing up and requesting
  • 00:04:44
    access to the basic Plumbing Systems of
  • 00:04:47
    the federal government how money moves
  • 00:04:49
    around how people get hired the
  • 00:04:52
    information that is stored about every
  • 00:04:54
    program and every person who works in
  • 00:04:56
    the federal government so it really is
  • 00:04:58
    exactly what the executive orders that
  • 00:05:01
    created this non- agency agency promised
  • 00:05:04
    which is that they've they've given him
  • 00:05:06
    the keys to all the systems or they're
  • 00:05:07
    trying to at any rate in some case
  • 00:05:09
    obviously they're having to try to take
  • 00:05:11
    them because they lack the legal
  • 00:05:12
    Authority but it does seem like this is
  • 00:05:14
    this attempt to kind of get over top of
  • 00:05:16
    the whole machine and figure out how it
  • 00:05:18
    works and Dana is Elon doing anything
  • 00:05:22
    else at the moment is he basically just
  • 00:05:24
    is this like a doge like 100% fulltime
  • 00:05:27
    right now he did take an hour out of his
  • 00:05:30
    busy schedule last week to like be on
  • 00:05:32
    Tesla's earning call but he is hunkered
  • 00:05:33
    down in Washington DC his plane has been
  • 00:05:36
    at Dulles for two weeks and Anthony what
  • 00:05:39
    kind of really struck me about your
  • 00:05:41
    story over the weekend is kind of the
  • 00:05:43
    gleeful abandon which which with which
  • 00:05:46
    musk and the Doge crew or kids as some
  • 00:05:49
    as some have called them are going about
  • 00:05:51
    this I listen to Elon Musk do his ex
  • 00:05:53
    spaces on Sunday night and he was like
  • 00:05:56
    very euphoric about about what they had
  • 00:05:58
    done to be clear in shutting down um
  • 00:06:02
    which we're in the process of doing
  • 00:06:02
    shutting down USA ID the the the reason
  • 00:06:05
    for that as opposed to Simply um you
  • 00:06:07
    know trying to do do some minor house
  • 00:06:09
    cleaning is is that as we dug into USA
  • 00:06:13
    USA ID it became apparent that what we
  • 00:06:15
    have here is is not an apple with a worm
  • 00:06:17
    in it but we have actually just a bowl
  • 00:06:20
    of worms he also said we spent the
  • 00:06:23
    weekend feeding usaid into a wood
  • 00:06:25
    shipper could have gone to some great
  • 00:06:27
    parties did that instead yeah Anthony I
  • 00:06:30
    think this is a really important Point
  • 00:06:31
    like musk is not a nine-to-five person
  • 00:06:34
    he operates a lot on the weekends and a
  • 00:06:37
    lot late at night and the fact that this
  • 00:06:39
    kind of Confrontation happened on a
  • 00:06:41
    Saturday is just super striking to me I
  • 00:06:43
    think that's by Design and could you
  • 00:06:45
    just talk a little bit more about like
  • 00:06:47
    who the Doge Landing team at usai did is
  • 00:06:49
    I mean you and Jason and your story
  • 00:06:51
    actually had like the names of these
  • 00:06:53
    people and many of them are like 25 and
  • 00:06:55
    under recent college graduates young
  • 00:06:57
    Engineers who have worked for elon's
  • 00:06:59
    other companies can you give us a little
  • 00:07:01
    bit more sense as to who exactly they
  • 00:07:02
    are do they have security clearances are
  • 00:07:04
    they special government
  • 00:07:06
    employees got those are all great
  • 00:07:08
    questions we think so far they've been
  • 00:07:10
    assigned to other government offices the
  • 00:07:13
    office of personnel management the GSA
  • 00:07:16
    small business administration I believe
  • 00:07:18
    one of them has been and they all seem
  • 00:07:21
    to have like I said earlier an
  • 00:07:22
    ideological bent as far as we can tell
  • 00:07:25
    for instance there's a fellow called
  • 00:07:26
    Gavin Cleber he's a 20-some who has a
  • 00:07:30
    Blog and on his blog he expounds on
  • 00:07:33
    these kind of conspiracies about how the
  • 00:07:35
    CIA was responsible for everything that
  • 00:07:38
    happened to Congressman Matt Gates
  • 00:07:39
    there's another individual on that that
  • 00:07:41
    sort of beach head team that was at
  • 00:07:43
    usaid this is a person who was a teal
  • 00:07:45
    fellow right so so we're seeing people
  • 00:07:48
    who come from that sort of extremely
  • 00:07:51
    online right-wing conspiratorial
  • 00:07:54
    ecosystem right your words are perfect
  • 00:07:57
    right like these are the people who sort
  • 00:07:58
    of believe in that mission whatever you
  • 00:08:00
    think of it and they've been hired and
  • 00:08:03
    tasked with many of the similar things I
  • 00:08:05
    mean there's a brilliant story in the
  • 00:08:06
    New York Times about how this mirrors
  • 00:08:09
    what happened at X right that they go in
  • 00:08:11
    and wipe out half this the staff and and
  • 00:08:14
    figure it out later and Folks at usaid
  • 00:08:17
    are saying to us like you can't
  • 00:08:21
    break malaria coverage like it's
  • 00:08:24
    irresponsible to stop some of the
  • 00:08:26
    funding of these measures and they've to
  • 00:08:29
    his words put it in a wood chipper it it
  • 00:08:31
    also really mirrors what happened at
  • 00:08:32
    Tesla right so like last spring uh Elon
  • 00:08:35
    Musk fired nearly 20% of the staff at
  • 00:08:38
    Tesla and people literally like were
  • 00:08:40
    going to work in the morning and they
  • 00:08:42
    they only knew that they had been
  • 00:08:43
    dismissed because their badges no longer
  • 00:08:45
    worked and they were immediately cut off
  • 00:08:47
    from all systems that's what's happening
  • 00:08:49
    at usaid right like people that are like
  • 00:08:51
    in missions around the world are like
  • 00:08:52
    all of a sudden like like told like that
  • 00:08:55
    they're fired but they can't even access
  • 00:08:57
    any kind of system to like get re
  • 00:08:59
    reimbursed for their plane ticket home
  • 00:09:01
    or like to close out what they had been
  • 00:09:03
    working on with their Partners I mean
  • 00:09:05
    people are really like around the globe
  • 00:09:07
    are left hanging there is medicine on
  • 00:09:09
    the loading dock in some cases like
  • 00:09:11
    there's just we've just walked away from
  • 00:09:14
    real obligations that affect real lives
  • 00:09:16
    Ted build on that a little bit because I
  • 00:09:18
    I don't think we've totally established
  • 00:09:19
    what's at stake here like first of all I
  • 00:09:21
    don't think it's clear that Elon Musk
  • 00:09:24
    has in fact destroyed like he I'm not
  • 00:09:26
    sure that you know sorry sorry to use
  • 00:09:29
    the metaphor but put it in the wood
  • 00:09:30
    shipper and also like if he were to
  • 00:09:33
    destroy usid like what does this
  • 00:09:35
    organization actually do well I mean to
  • 00:09:37
    your first point there are a lot of
  • 00:09:38
    people who point out he legally lacks
  • 00:09:40
    the authority to destroy usaid it was
  • 00:09:42
    created by a statute it was you know a
  • 00:09:44
    law made this thing he can't undo it by
  • 00:09:47
    waving a magic wand at it the question
  • 00:09:48
    is whether anyone in Washington who
  • 00:09:50
    opposes this is going to stand up to it
  • 00:09:53
    or going to find a way that's effective
  • 00:09:55
    and we don't really know the answer to
  • 00:09:56
    that usaid is is Broad and it's like a
  • 00:10:00
    lot of federal you know agencies where
  • 00:10:03
    it's it's they all have something that
  • 00:10:05
    we've talked about this before it's easy
  • 00:10:06
    to pull out and make fun of you know
  • 00:10:08
    there's always some budget line for
  • 00:10:10
    research that sounds stupid if you want
  • 00:10:12
    to make it look like they're just out
  • 00:10:13
    there wasting money but it's also it's
  • 00:10:16
    an agency directing soft Power by
  • 00:10:18
    funding humanitarian efforts around the
  • 00:10:20
    world it's intended from its outset to
  • 00:10:23
    project American benevolence and force
  • 00:10:26
    in opposition to other superpowers
  • 00:10:28
    namely Russia and China so yeah that's
  • 00:10:31
    the thing that they have just switched
  • 00:10:32
    off with no warning it does sound like
  • 00:10:34
    very analogous to what you're describing
  • 00:10:36
    Dana Tesla and what happened at X but
  • 00:10:39
    you know it's a little bit different
  • 00:10:40
    when we're talking about baby formula
  • 00:10:43
    yeah this has come up in a few stories
  • 00:10:45
    and Anthony maybe it's you've even come
  • 00:10:47
    across it I'm curious but like the idea
  • 00:10:49
    that they're using quote unquote AI
  • 00:10:51
    these these Doge kids are using AI to um
  • 00:10:55
    essentially figure out what to cut and
  • 00:10:57
    and I feel like to Ted's Point like a
  • 00:10:59
    lot of these things you do a search for
  • 00:11:01
    them and it sounds pretty bad or it
  • 00:11:04
    sounds like oh this is some frivolous
  • 00:11:05
    thing but a lot of what usaid does is
  • 00:11:08
    sort of project American influence in
  • 00:11:11
    the world like this is a this is like a
  • 00:11:12
    big part of our like foreign policy and
  • 00:11:16
    and our soft power right foreign policy
  • 00:11:19
    magazine once described USA A's work as
  • 00:11:24
    trying to do good things in bad places
  • 00:11:27
    and it's everything from
  • 00:11:29
    again like HIV treatment in subsaharan
  • 00:11:33
    Africa it's rebuilding Ukraine they've
  • 00:11:36
    got they spent loads of money there
  • 00:11:37
    appropri loads money there and I think
  • 00:11:40
    to its
  • 00:11:41
    critics like they usaid is seen as sort
  • 00:11:44
    of a front for the CIA I mean there's
  • 00:11:46
    not real evidence to support that at
  • 00:11:47
    least in recent Years anyway but you can
  • 00:11:49
    see why it might be a target of of folks
  • 00:11:53
    like Elon Musk or Donald Trump or Peter
  • 00:11:56
    teal who have an ideological bent
  • 00:11:58
    against expounding our power and also
  • 00:12:01
    like Trump ran on an America First
  • 00:12:04
    platform and and their argument is going
  • 00:12:06
    to be I think that these programs don't
  • 00:12:09
    serve Americans first right no one on
  • 00:12:12
    this call is going to be the beneficiary
  • 00:12:14
    of a usaid program but I I think you
  • 00:12:18
    could make an argument that like solving
  • 00:12:21
    famine and poverty in developing
  • 00:12:24
    countries does keep the United States
  • 00:12:26
    safer I mean that's like what JFK
  • 00:12:28
    started this whole thing about right JFK
  • 00:12:30
    in 1961 to combat the Soviet Union
  • 00:12:34
    essentially said that American Security
  • 00:12:36
    American National Security is best
  • 00:12:38
    served by stability across the world so
  • 00:12:40
    he starts a program that will reduce
  • 00:12:44
    famine war and poverty across the world
  • 00:12:47
    in the hopes that it will keep us safe
  • 00:12:49
    here at home and I think that's what
  • 00:12:51
    soft power looks
  • 00:12:52
    [Music]
  • 00:12:56
    like so we've seen a couple of Congress
  • 00:13:00
    people Senator Roger R wicker of
  • 00:13:02
    Mississippi kind of push back gently he
  • 00:13:05
    said he'd seen usaid kind of to your
  • 00:13:07
    point Anthony as quote our way of
  • 00:13:09
    combating the Belton Road initiative
  • 00:13:11
    that's like the Chinese equivalent of
  • 00:13:13
    soft power we've also seen Democrats
  • 00:13:15
    push back probably even more strongly
  • 00:13:17
    Let's Play a clip from Senator Brian
  • 00:13:19
    shatz you cannot wave away an agency
  • 00:13:23
    that you don't like or that you disagree
  • 00:13:25
    with by executive order or by literally
  • 00:13:29
    storming into the building and taking
  • 00:13:31
    over the servers yeah that's kind of
  • 00:13:34
    where the Democrats are Dana do we have
  • 00:13:36
    a sense of where president Trump is here
  • 00:13:39
    I mean this has been kind of a a running
  • 00:13:41
    theme like how how like plugged in is
  • 00:13:43
    President Trump here how was he like
  • 00:13:45
    yeah Elon Go Go destroy usaid go put in
  • 00:13:48
    the wood chipper or did Elon kind of do
  • 00:13:50
    this on his own I think that Elon did it
  • 00:13:53
    with Trump's blessing I think that there
  • 00:13:54
    was a comment from Trump at one of the
  • 00:13:56
    briefings that Elon can't do everything
  • 00:13:58
    that he wants but that he checks in and
  • 00:14:00
    like this was okay Mar Rubio yesterday
  • 00:14:03
    said that now a parts of usaid are going
  • 00:14:05
    to be sort of absorbed into the state
  • 00:14:07
    department so this is not Elon going
  • 00:14:10
    rogue Elon Musk thinks that he has a
  • 00:14:13
    mandate to do this and until the Trump
  • 00:14:15
    Administration stops him he is not going
  • 00:14:17
    to stop I think what has surprised
  • 00:14:19
    people is like the speed with which he
  • 00:14:22
    is doing it it's almost like watching
  • 00:14:24
    like a foreign Nation get sacked where
  • 00:14:27
    like they take like City over City over
  • 00:14:29
    City and they're going agency by agency
  • 00:14:31
    by agency and I think that they've had
  • 00:14:33
    this plan in the works for months and
  • 00:14:35
    I'm also super interested in how doge is
  • 00:14:37
    working with either in tandem or in
  • 00:14:40
    parallel with the folks at om and Ross
  • 00:14:43
    void and project 2025 like these are
  • 00:14:46
    very similar objectives yeah absolutely
  • 00:14:49
    and I think we're gonna we're gonna have
  • 00:14:50
    to talk about Russ vault at some point
  • 00:14:52
    on this podcast I wanted to play one
  • 00:14:54
    more clip from that very surreal Twitter
  • 00:14:57
    spaces you know first of of all VI who
  • 00:15:00
    is out at Doge just like showed up as a
  • 00:15:02
    co-host which was sort of weird and
  • 00:15:04
    amusing and and there was this like
  • 00:15:06
    slightly awkward Vibe I thought between
  • 00:15:08
    the two men and then there was also this
  • 00:15:10
    moment where musk actually spoke to his
  • 00:15:13
    kind of relationship with President
  • 00:15:15
    Trump let's just listen to that real
  • 00:15:17
    quick none of this could be done without
  • 00:15:18
    the full support of the president and U
  • 00:15:20
    you with regard to the US a Aid stuff I
  • 00:15:22
    went went over it with him you know in
  • 00:15:24
    detail and and he he he agreed with the
  • 00:15:28
    that we should we should shut it down I
  • 00:15:29
    mean that's I want to be clear that's
  • 00:15:31
    and I I actually checked with him a few
  • 00:15:34
    times said are you sure I'm like yes so
  • 00:15:37
    we're shutting it down Ted did you take
  • 00:15:39
    that as musk having Trump's full and
  • 00:15:42
    complete endorsement or whatever like
  • 00:15:43
    there's something a little bit like Pro
  • 00:15:45
    like protest too much to me about like I
  • 00:15:47
    asked him once and he said yes then I
  • 00:15:48
    asked him again and he said like it just
  • 00:15:50
    I don't know there was something about
  • 00:15:51
    that and I also just sort of wondering
  • 00:15:53
    you know we're seeing Congress people
  • 00:15:55
    senators and and house members make
  • 00:15:58
    statements
  • 00:15:59
    do you sense any kind of political
  • 00:16:01
    blowback or even the beginnings of of
  • 00:16:03
    political blowback either from
  • 00:16:05
    Republicans Or democrats I I don't know
  • 00:16:07
    how much musk was sensing blowback in
  • 00:16:09
    that moment when he said that it's
  • 00:16:10
    certainly I I hear it the same way that
  • 00:16:13
    if the blowback is coming he's reminding
  • 00:16:14
    everybody that the leader of their group
  • 00:16:17
    of their movement approves of what he's
  • 00:16:18
    doing or at least has given him the whip
  • 00:16:20
    hand but there is blowback coming like
  • 00:16:22
    Bill Cassidy is the senator from
  • 00:16:24
    Louisiana he's also a doctor and I think
  • 00:16:26
    it was earlier today if not yesterday he
  • 00:16:28
    was criticized izing the fact that this
  • 00:16:29
    has shut down pepar which is probably
  • 00:16:32
    the most successful Public Health
  • 00:16:33
    Initiative certainly of the last half
  • 00:16:35
    century which is also a republican
  • 00:16:38
    program it's a bush program people are
  • 00:16:39
    starting to Grapple with the
  • 00:16:41
    consequences and it's not just Democrats
  • 00:16:43
    complaining and I think musk probably is
  • 00:16:45
    aware that he's going to have to sort of
  • 00:16:47
    defend some of this stuff if he wants it
  • 00:16:49
    to stick I would just point out though I
  • 00:16:51
    think you used the word glee earlier
  • 00:16:53
    there is like on the subject of Russ
  • 00:16:55
    vote like in the way that the Doge
  • 00:16:56
    people are talking to the civil servants
  • 00:16:59
    who they're going after the the weird
  • 00:17:01
    shot at all of them in the offer of the
  • 00:17:04
    retirement package where they said we'd
  • 00:17:06
    like to move you from low productivity
  • 00:17:08
    public sector work into the private
  • 00:17:09
    sector like this disdain for anyone who
  • 00:17:12
    works for the government is a connective
  • 00:17:14
    tissue to the rest of Maga that's the
  • 00:17:17
    way Russ vote has spoken about wanting
  • 00:17:19
    every civil servant to feel like a
  • 00:17:21
    villain and to not want to go to work in
  • 00:17:23
    the morning and there is this shared
  • 00:17:26
    antipathy for the government worker as
  • 00:17:29
    type and I think that that is the way at
  • 00:17:31
    least right now where they're working in
  • 00:17:32
    harmony yeah Anthony I I was curious if
  • 00:17:35
    that came up in your reporting just the
  • 00:17:37
    the extent to which part of the goal
  • 00:17:40
    here seems to be the performance as much
  • 00:17:42
    as it is the actual like actually
  • 00:17:45
    cutting these programs like but to make
  • 00:17:48
    civil servants feel bad or something
  • 00:17:50
    like that no not as much as not
  • 00:17:52
    explicitly the thing that did come up is
  • 00:17:54
    a real lack of
  • 00:17:55
    transparency it's very difficult for us
  • 00:17:58
    to understand understand who in fact
  • 00:18:00
    works for Doge like what are they do
  • 00:18:03
    like how are they communicating with one
  • 00:18:04
    another like my colleague you guys
  • 00:18:06
    probably know Chason Leopold is the most
  • 00:18:09
    aggressive U user of the Freedom of
  • 00:18:11
    Information Act and I am sure we will be
  • 00:18:14
    litigating some of these issues but I I
  • 00:18:16
    am struck by the lack of complete
  • 00:18:19
    transparency I mean it's happening on a
  • 00:18:21
    social media platform that the world's
  • 00:18:24
    richest man owns like he's setting and
  • 00:18:26
    explaining public policy on an like a on
  • 00:18:29
    a business that he owns that does not
  • 00:18:31
    strike me as being
  • 00:18:33
    businesses as usual yeah to the point
  • 00:18:36
    about lack of transparency we've seen
  • 00:18:37
    reports saying that these Doge kids are
  • 00:18:41
    will like refusing to give their last
  • 00:18:42
    name so like many of the people at these
  • 00:18:44
    agencies don't even know who they're
  • 00:18:45
    dealing with and just to be clear like
  • 00:18:48
    legally Elon cannot shut down usaid Ted
  • 00:18:52
    you you kind of you said it but I just
  • 00:18:53
    want to establish that right yeah that's
  • 00:18:55
    certainly the argument you hear from
  • 00:18:57
    every Democrat in Congress heard talk
  • 00:18:59
    about this is to say look he's got an
  • 00:19:01
    he's got an executive order saying that
  • 00:19:03
    he can recommend changes to the
  • 00:19:04
    government but that doesn't mean that he
  • 00:19:06
    can go in and remove something that is
  • 00:19:08
    in the statutes of the United States
  • 00:19:09
    that was created by law but that's going
  • 00:19:12
    to be something where I think every
  • 00:19:13
    indication is they're going to DARE the
  • 00:19:15
    other side to fight them and to take it
  • 00:19:17
    to court and Anthony this kind of these
  • 00:19:20
    tactics this kind of Playbook do we have
  • 00:19:23
    any sense of whether it has been
  • 00:19:25
    replicated at any other federal agencies
  • 00:19:27
    or whether we expect to see the same
  • 00:19:30
    kind of approach anywhere else within
  • 00:19:31
    the government yeah I think so I we
  • 00:19:33
    don't know yet where they've they've
  • 00:19:35
    gone but we do know I we we we
  • 00:19:38
    understand that one of the main Doge
  • 00:19:41
    kids for lack of a better word uh is a
  • 00:19:43
    guy called Gavin kleager and his name
  • 00:19:45
    has now been copied on a number of other
  • 00:19:48
    emails to other agencies so the thought
  • 00:19:51
    is from people who work at these
  • 00:19:52
    agencies if we're not now we're next
  • 00:19:55
    right that they are priming the pump so
  • 00:19:57
    to speak to come knock on our door in
  • 00:20:00
    the future so it doesn't seem to end
  • 00:20:03
    with USA ID or GSA or OPM it looks like
  • 00:20:07
    this is going to be a stepbystep process
  • 00:20:11
    as you guys are saying there they're
  • 00:20:13
    going to be more of these standoffs
  • 00:20:15
    we're going to be following it Anthony
  • 00:20:17
    hope to have you back to talk about as
  • 00:20:19
    you as you and your colleagues follow
  • 00:20:20
    these stories thanks again for being
  • 00:20:22
    with us thanks R
  • 00:20:23
    [Music]
  • 00:20:26
    me all right let's talk about the impact
  • 00:20:30
    that these very wellp publicized Antics
  • 00:20:34
    and potentially consequential Antics are
  • 00:20:36
    having on musk's businesses you know we
  • 00:20:38
    have talked over and over again on this
  • 00:20:40
    podcast Dana will know Ted you may have
  • 00:20:42
    even picked up a hint of it because it
  • 00:20:44
    comes up so often about the prospect
  • 00:20:46
    that musk's politicking will somehow
  • 00:20:49
    hurt Tesla David Papadopoulos is like
  • 00:20:51
    obsessed with this question he's always
  • 00:20:53
    trying to force Dana to to admit that
  • 00:20:56
    the that maybe there's an impact and
  • 00:20:58
    Dana think we've got it now right
  • 00:21:00
    Tesla's sales declined in California
  • 00:21:03
    pretty significantly the model 3
  • 00:21:05
    especially down by like a third are we
  • 00:21:08
    ready to start saying hey like Tesla's
  • 00:21:10
    sales may be suffering because of Elon
  • 00:21:13
    musk's politics yes I would just caution
  • 00:21:16
    that Tesla gets like like 40% of Tesla's
  • 00:21:19
    sales are in China and it is a global
  • 00:21:22
    auto market and for every person that
  • 00:21:24
    says I hate Elon Musk in his politics
  • 00:21:26
    I'm never going to buy a Tesla like
  • 00:21:28
    people don't buy cars in the same way
  • 00:21:30
    that they buy like budlight or shop at
  • 00:21:33
    Target versus Costco but yes you are
  • 00:21:35
    seeing people trade in their Teslas for
  • 00:21:37
    rivan you saw sales dip in the in
  • 00:21:39
    particularly in California which is like
  • 00:21:41
    the most mature EV Market in the country
  • 00:21:43
    you're seeing people spray paint stuff
  • 00:21:45
    on the side of cyber trucks and
  • 00:21:47
    vandalized stores and like you are
  • 00:21:49
    seeing those sort of goofy bumper
  • 00:21:51
    stickers I bought my Tesla before Elon
  • 00:21:53
    went crazy like more are more common now
  • 00:21:56
    the Cyber truck in particular is almost
  • 00:21:58
    like a rolling embodiment of the dynamic
  • 00:22:02
    that we discussed earlier right it's
  • 00:22:04
    like too big it's sort of like bullying
  • 00:22:06
    the road like I it almost feels like
  • 00:22:08
    that car in particular sort of
  • 00:22:11
    increasing this sense of of Elon as a as
  • 00:22:13
    a political figure in a way that if they
  • 00:22:15
    had you know had a nice much smaller car
  • 00:22:18
    like a little smart car type thing maybe
  • 00:22:20
    maybe it would it would counter it I
  • 00:22:22
    think the Cyber truck is the Maga hat of
  • 00:22:25
    the musk movement it's a provocation
  • 00:22:27
    like you are at asking for the eyeball
  • 00:22:29
    to even drive it down the street yeah
  • 00:22:31
    absolutely and also what's crazy about
  • 00:22:33
    these sales numbers in the US anyway is
  • 00:22:37
    that they Tesla had a new model
  • 00:22:38
    essentially like the Cyber truck is
  • 00:22:40
    relatively new and so so the the fact
  • 00:22:43
    that the sales are falling despite the
  • 00:22:45
    Cyber truck or maybe because of it seems
  • 00:22:48
    doubly concerning Ted let's let's let's
  • 00:22:50
    stay with you and and move on to tariffs
  • 00:22:53
    because we've seen this kind of trump
  • 00:22:55
    sort of threatened tariffs against
  • 00:22:57
    Canada and Mexico and then quickly
  • 00:22:58
    reverse course we have the prospect of
  • 00:23:01
    tariffs on China and you wrote a story
  • 00:23:03
    for Bloomberg over the EV graphite and
  • 00:23:06
    the prospect of of much much greater
  • 00:23:08
    tariffs on on graphite which is
  • 00:23:10
    necessary I believe to make batteries
  • 00:23:13
    where does that stand and how how big a
  • 00:23:16
    deal is it for Tesla it's a potentially
  • 00:23:19
    big deal for all the EV Bankers
  • 00:23:20
    especially Tesla as well as just the
  • 00:23:22
    battery companies too this is an
  • 00:23:23
    interesting example that we chose partly
  • 00:23:26
    because it starts in the first Trump
  • 00:23:27
    term when Trump imposed duties on
  • 00:23:30
    imports from China one of the things
  • 00:23:31
    that got hit in that first wave was
  • 00:23:34
    graphite which is needed in huge
  • 00:23:36
    quantities and at Great Purity to make
  • 00:23:40
    battery cells the anode of a battery so
  • 00:23:42
    a ton of it gets imported including by
  • 00:23:44
    Tesla also by Panasonic and other
  • 00:23:45
    battery makers they were hit with this
  • 00:23:47
    Duty the first time around when Trump
  • 00:23:50
    imposed tariffs on China they
  • 00:23:52
    successfully Tesla successfully lobbied
  • 00:23:54
    for an exclusion in other words they got
  • 00:23:56
    to not pay the Tariff which was raised
  • 00:23:58
    raing their input costs for this this
  • 00:24:00
    material that they desperately needed
  • 00:24:02
    under the Biden Administration where
  • 00:24:04
    Biden kept some of those tariffs in
  • 00:24:06
    place you could petition to have your
  • 00:24:08
    exclusion continued and renewed and they
  • 00:24:10
    lost theirs they they failed to get the
  • 00:24:12
    renewal so now they're paying uh 25%
  • 00:24:15
    Duty on the graphite that they import
  • 00:24:17
    the issue here though is the domestic
  • 00:24:20
    graphite producers in the United States
  • 00:24:23
    are seeking a much much larger tariff on
  • 00:24:26
    that material coming in they say there's
  • 00:24:28
    no chance that a big industry that we
  • 00:24:31
    will really need for EVS but also for
  • 00:24:34
    the energy transition because you'll
  • 00:24:35
    need a lot of energy storage systems
  • 00:24:37
    we'll never be able to produce that raw
  • 00:24:39
    material if China is flooding the market
  • 00:24:41
    with super low cost improperly low cost
  • 00:24:44
    graphite so they're asking for more than
  • 00:24:46
    900% tariffs on graphite Imports and
  • 00:24:49
    Tesla is lobbying against that which we
  • 00:24:52
    just found it's pretty interesting right
  • 00:24:54
    this is Donald Trump's favorite rich guy
  • 00:24:56
    and Donald Trump's almost only economic
  • 00:24:59
    theory which is just imposing tariffs on
  • 00:25:01
    everybody else and then you'll get a
  • 00:25:03
    Revival of American manufacturing and
  • 00:25:05
    the two are directly at loggerheads
  • 00:25:07
    Tesla is in certain ways almost like a
  • 00:25:10
    Chinese car company or or it's it's like
  • 00:25:12
    an American company and a Chinese car
  • 00:25:13
    company married together or something
  • 00:25:15
    and as Ted is kind of hinting at you
  • 00:25:17
    know it's not just the tariffs are a big
  • 00:25:19
    issue for Trump but China is a big issue
  • 00:25:21
    I mean where do you have any sense of
  • 00:25:23
    like where and how Tesla could be hurt
  • 00:25:28
    by
  • 00:25:29
    Trump's approach to China whether he's
  • 00:25:31
    he takes a a harder line than Biden or
  • 00:25:34
    or maybe a sort of lighter touch well
  • 00:25:36
    Tesla is in better shape than other car
  • 00:25:38
    companies in terms of tariffs just
  • 00:25:39
    because they most of you know the cars
  • 00:25:42
    that they sell in the United States they
  • 00:25:43
    make in the United States and they have
  • 00:25:45
    a very high percentage of American
  • 00:25:46
    content they are not making cars in
  • 00:25:49
    Mexico they're not importing a lot from
  • 00:25:51
    Canada like they have a very domestic
  • 00:25:53
    supply chain which is why they benefit
  • 00:25:55
    so much they make all their parts or
  • 00:25:56
    most of them yeah and it's why they
  • 00:25:58
    actually benefit quite so much from
  • 00:26:00
    Biden's inflation reduction Act is
  • 00:26:02
    because they have so much domestic
  • 00:26:03
    content and domestic
  • 00:26:05
    manufacturing but with China like the
  • 00:26:08
    the plant in Shanghai exports those
  • 00:26:10
    vehicles to Europe and to Canada and uh
  • 00:26:14
    is the most productive Factory that they
  • 00:26:16
    have on the globe and so as the trade
  • 00:26:18
    War evolves and like other nations get
  • 00:26:21
    involved like if Europe gets Dragged In
  • 00:26:23
    you could just see it having like longer
  • 00:26:25
    repercussions but I think that like is
  • 00:26:29
    kind of okay with chff because it hurts
  • 00:26:31
    his competitors more than it hurts him I
  • 00:26:33
    don't think Elon really cares though I
  • 00:26:35
    do think though that mus cares about his
  • 00:26:39
    companies and I think that as much as
  • 00:26:42
    he's political and I I I will point out
  • 00:26:45
    like he's had some real wins wins for
  • 00:26:48
    his companies so the the new head of
  • 00:26:51
    NASA is a big fan of Elon Musk the the
  • 00:26:55
    guy who's going to run the Air Force is
  • 00:26:57
    a guy that Musk wanted and like these
  • 00:26:59
    are these are potential buyers of
  • 00:27:02
    spacex's services I mean Ted to me like
  • 00:27:05
    one of the ways that we're going to
  • 00:27:06
    evaluate elon's sort of performance in
  • 00:27:09
    government there'll be the Doge metrics
  • 00:27:12
    the how much money did he does he say he
  • 00:27:13
    cut and then also like how does it help
  • 00:27:16
    his companies I mean where do you think
  • 00:27:17
    he stands right now like in terms of if
  • 00:27:20
    if if if you were just looking this as
  • 00:27:22
    as a transactional thing like what is he
  • 00:27:24
    getting for all of this do you think
  • 00:27:27
    he's gotten anything thing a lot a
  • 00:27:29
    little I would answer that question by
  • 00:27:30
    pointing you to the story that our
  • 00:27:32
    colleague Kelsey griffi reported last
  • 00:27:34
    night which is that the Trump folks are
  • 00:27:37
    bringing in a Critic of the Biden era
  • 00:27:39
    Broadband uh roll out which has been
  • 00:27:42
    delayed and subject of controversy um
  • 00:27:44
    that's a $42 billion pot of money that
  • 00:27:46
    was not designed to just go to starlink
  • 00:27:49
    and they're not going to give it all to
  • 00:27:51
    musk but they're bringing in someone who
  • 00:27:53
    didn't like the program that he didn't
  • 00:27:54
    like who will presumably approach it in
  • 00:27:56
    a different fashion and will you know
  • 00:27:59
    give him a better opportunity at getting
  • 00:28:00
    some of that Federal money so I think
  • 00:28:02
    that that's the approach that we should
  • 00:28:05
    expect him to continue taking Dana your
  • 00:28:07
    point is is well taken that he's willing
  • 00:28:10
    to have there be short-term chaos and
  • 00:28:13
    pain and to do things that are not
  • 00:28:16
    immediately to his you know you know
  • 00:28:18
    benefit on day two but I also do think
  • 00:28:21
    that there's this sense that as you said
  • 00:28:24
    that there will be more contracts Elon
  • 00:28:26
    gets the trough no matter what Biden is
  • 00:28:28
    president like this fire hose of money
  • 00:28:30
    in in the form of the inflation
  • 00:28:32
    reduction Act is like aimed squarely at
  • 00:28:34
    Tesla Trump gets elected like now we're
  • 00:28:37
    going to see maybe more contracts for
  • 00:28:39
    for starlink like no matter no matter
  • 00:28:40
    who's in power Elon wins and it's
  • 00:28:43
    because frankly his companies are the
  • 00:28:45
    best like SpaceX is the lowcost provider
  • 00:28:48
    that has conquered the launch market
  • 00:28:50
    Tesla is the most profitable EV maker in
  • 00:28:53
    the United States and and Elon is has
  • 00:28:56
    you know he's played both sides like
  • 00:28:59
    throughout his career very
  • 00:29:01
    adroitly I just want to end with sort of
  • 00:29:05
    asking you guys to look ahead a little
  • 00:29:06
    bit and sort of say what do each of you
  • 00:29:09
    think we're going to be talking about on
  • 00:29:11
    on the subject of Elon Musk and the
  • 00:29:13
    government next week which agency I
  • 00:29:15
    guess is the next Target Ted I'll start
  • 00:29:19
    with you oh I have to pick an agency jez
  • 00:29:22
    I'm not going to pick an agency I will
  • 00:29:23
    just say that these guys are dedicated
  • 00:29:26
    to doing what they're doing to the
  • 00:29:27
    government also seem a little bit new at
  • 00:29:29
    it in the way they talk about must keep
  • 00:29:32
    saying we'll just get rid of rules and
  • 00:29:34
    add back one if we decide we need it it
  • 00:29:36
    suggests a total unfamiliarity with the
  • 00:29:38
    process that they're disrupting and one
  • 00:29:42
    aspect of that will be they're going to
  • 00:29:44
    gore an ox that they're not expecting
  • 00:29:46
    will be as big of a problem as it is and
  • 00:29:47
    you're seeing that even among
  • 00:29:49
    Conservative Republican Senators talking
  • 00:29:51
    about foreign aid which they usually
  • 00:29:54
    have no problem just talking about how
  • 00:29:55
    foreign aid is all the waste but even
  • 00:29:56
    there you're starting to hear those
  • 00:29:58
    Rumblings of blowback and if he
  • 00:30:00
    continues with this approach agency by
  • 00:30:02
    agency across the government you start
  • 00:30:04
    to hit things that people actually do
  • 00:30:06
    care about and that people who in the
  • 00:30:08
    abstract are for tearing it all down
  • 00:30:10
    don't actually like when you do it so I
  • 00:30:12
    think that that will be the question
  • 00:30:14
    where does he cross that line with which
  • 00:30:16
    part of the Republican majority and what
  • 00:30:19
    happens then so there are like 400
  • 00:30:21
    government agencies and I including some
  • 00:30:23
    small ones that nobody has ever heard
  • 00:30:25
    about but I personally am going to keep
  • 00:30:27
    my eye on the Department of Education
  • 00:30:30
    because as we've reported like musk has
  • 00:30:32
    a huge interest in education himself he
  • 00:30:35
    has a foundation that's very dedicated
  • 00:30:36
    to education he has started a preschool
  • 00:30:38
    in Texas a lot of this is ideological
  • 00:30:41
    around wokeism and you know we don't
  • 00:30:44
    have a confirmed head of the Department
  • 00:30:46
    of Ed yet but I just sort of worry and
  • 00:30:49
    and predict that like you you will see
  • 00:30:51
    Doge at at the department of Ed
  • 00:30:53
    relatively soon yeah and to Ted's point
  • 00:30:56
    I mean that is going to be a massive
  • 00:30:59
    Vector for blowback people get mad when
  • 00:31:01
    their public schools start to get
  • 00:31:02
    defunded and and depending on how subtle
  • 00:31:05
    this is there there could be real
  • 00:31:10
    consequences let's end there Ted Dan
  • 00:31:14
    thanks for being here really appreciate
  • 00:31:16
    it thank you thank
  • 00:31:18
    [Music]
  • 00:31:23
    you this episode was produced by Stacy
  • 00:31:25
    Wong Anam mazarakis is our editor editor
  • 00:31:28
    and rahan harmoni our senior editor
  • 00:31:30
    Blake Maples handles engineering and
  • 00:31:32
    Dave Purcell fact checks our supervising
  • 00:31:34
    producer is Magnus Henrickson the eaning
  • 00:31:37
    theme is written and performed by taka
  • 00:31:39
    yazu zawa and Alex sigera Brendan
  • 00:31:41
    Francis nunam is our executive producer
  • 00:31:44
    and Sage Bowman is the head of Bloomberg
  • 00:31:45
    podcast big thanks to Joel Weber and
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    Brad Stone I'm max chafkin if you have a
  • 00:31:50
    minute R and review our show it'll help
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    other listeners find us and we will see
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    you next week
标签
  • Elon Musk
  • USAID
  • Doge kids
  • government agencies
  • politics
  • Trump administration
  • foreign aid
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