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so Frank you know I'm thrilled to have
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you come and I'm really looking forward
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to being out really looking forward to
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the opportunity to talk with you more
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about deep green reorienting and have it
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applies especially to attachment shook
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mm-hmm I am so grateful because you know
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I've known you all these years and
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worked with you and learned so much for
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you and this piece that you're doing
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about attachment shock I think is not
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being done anywhere anywhere and it's so
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critical that people learn from you and
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get this piece so let's talk about like
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why you called it repairing reorienting
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and then let's see if we can just touch
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on some of the specifics the deep drain
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reorienting part of it this is a bit
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more difficult to explain but the drain
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part of it is easy it's based on the
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brain stem I'm really interested in the
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functioning of the orienting responses
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at the brainstem level and often people
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look at orienting in relation to upper
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brain levels and my site the key
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components in the superior colliculi of
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the meta plane so what does that mean to
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those of us who don't know right yeah
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well the basic response for example to
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official stimulus is the superior
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colliculi and in the midbrain the basic
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response starts there so if we see a
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face that looks angry for example we
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register that at the level of the
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superior colliculi and then we get the
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affective response coming from the
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periaqueductal gray also in the midbrain
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which is just nearby and what I find is
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that between the orienting to the
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stimulus
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and the effective response there's often
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a very subtle tension and the muscles of
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the face neck shoulders and been able to
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pick up that tension allows us to
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develop an awareness of the sequence
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that happens if we see an angry face we
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find what tension happens in response to
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that and then the effective response
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perhaps fear comes and that's the next
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component of the sequence so we've got
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the orienting then attention and then
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the effect and I've been finding that
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looking at that sequence even although
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it happens physiologically in
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milliseconds been able to slow it right
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down allows us to see patterns that have
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been established sometimes very very
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early in life so what I've been learning
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from you and see if I'm hearing this
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correctly is that what that when when
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we're reactive now in our current life
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everything is happening so quickly that
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we can't parse out these many different
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pieces but what you've discovered is
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that in the brain if we slow it down
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enough each piece can be literally but
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you call sequence our way through it and
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then we can actually that's if we
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transform it at that level we're
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transforming it below the the cognate
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cognitive understanding and below the
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narrative explanation of it is that
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right that's correct
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yeah and because we're getting this
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sequence that's been established very
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readily we get into a response that
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underlies many many different
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interactions for example and the
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relational sense so if we always have a
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fear response to
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very looking angry then they will almost
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always be a particular sequence as we
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orient to it we get a certain subtle
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tension in the neck and then we get the
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affective response and we're doing you
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with that until till we're really slowed
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it down and get it an ultra slow motion
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and pick up the components of it
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so a little bit how I'm putting it
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together over my time of working with
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you is that the that when Bobby talks
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about the internal working model that's
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imprinted so early and that this is
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where this attachment shock that in it's
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imprinted deep in the brain stem yes or
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we can't talk our way through it we
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can't explain our way through it we have
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to go in and not feel necessarily the
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emotions although the emotions may arise
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but even before that to sense how the
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imprint was laid down so that we can
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then by trusting the brains natural
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ability to reorganize is to just move
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through in a different way instead of
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getting stuck in the imprint if then is
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able to move is that right that's
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correct as soon as we identify the
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sequence it becomes open to change and I
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think that it is opening to memory
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reconsolidation that when we identify
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the sequence we D consolidate that deep
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brain sequence and we look at it in a
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way that allows us to reorient to it and
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not then leads to reconsolidation of
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that memory so that the sequence clears
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and doesn't cause us to stress in the
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future oh it's so exciting because
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that's been my experience and I know
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that as we've talked about it over the
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time that it really is this change of
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that at a really I was going to say a
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meta-level but it's more like a
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I I don't know what it is in that it's
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the brainstem that's what you're trying
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to say is that deep level that just
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reorganize so and if I could just add
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the what doesn't come from the research
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so far is that there is an innate
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connection system that is an innate
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approach system that does brainstem
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level which is very close to the
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defensive response system also their
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alarm system so it means that people can
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have a conflict at the brainstem level
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if they've been ready to reach out to
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connect with somebody utilizing that
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innate connection system and then those
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for example an angry response so they
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get into a defensive response then
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almost simultaneously so it means that
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you have a conflict at a brain stem
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level that by the time it gets up to
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consciousness may make no sense at all
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so it's certainly when you really slow
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it down and look at it from the
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perspective of the brainstem anatomy and
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physiology that you can see the
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conflicted sequences at that level and
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data liza reorienting then to the
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conflict so let me see that
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if I think about a recent experience I
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had when I was working with a client is
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that she really wanted has learned that
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underneath her conflictual experience
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she really wants comfort and as she's
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tried to reach out for comfort and
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actually has been making good strides of
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that what's also happening is all the
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way she pushes away love and comfort and
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care the affiliative system so she
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pushes that away and she gets caught in
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that bind and and what you're saying is
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that by slowing it down and watching
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that training her to not dissociate but
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just stay right in that moment and just
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let it just shift a little a little at a
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time
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Ginn's to remap itself which is from
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Agee's word for changing the attachment
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system yeah and because the sequence
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goes from orienting to orient intention
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to effect well if we stay with the
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orienting the orient intention we don't
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tend to get overwhelmed by the effect
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because mostly another therapist we're
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looking at the effect we're looking at
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what is immediately distressing what
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makes us personally uncomfortable and
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that can lead to an intensification and
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an overwhelm for not resourced enough
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time or or they get more reactive so if
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we stay instead with the first part of
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the sequence then it's possible to go
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into the effect without associating or
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becoming dysregulated
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through being more reactive and not I
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think is a major strength of this
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approach I agree I think the other thing
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that has been helpful is training people
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to slow down enter that body state so
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they can shift out of thinking about it
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and actually training themselves to be
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within trust that bottom-up processing
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which most people I think don't trust
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and I think if we're starting from an
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experience that's distressing if people
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have had very adverse experiences early
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in life then the tendency would be to be
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disembodied to traditional Xia trauma
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but because we start with orienting to a
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trial for example to the angry face to
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use the example from earlier because we
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are starting with the orienting it is
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safer to be in the body to be aware of
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the tension that comes from not
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orienting before the effect comes in
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see how beautifully you articulate it
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Frank
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thank you good Christians help well
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Frank I am thrilled that you're coming
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and that people will have a chance to
00:11:16
explore this more in-depth and to find
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out more about the work that you're
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doing and how they can both change
00:11:23
themselves and work with their clients
00:11:24
to change
