The End of Carbs: Dr. Koutnik Reveals BRAND NEW Study that Ends 57-Year Debate on Performance
الملخص
TLDRThe discussion revolves around a study investigating the effects of low-carbohydrate and high-carbohydrate diets on athletic performance. Conducted on highly trained triathletes, the study revealed that after a six-week period, there was no significant difference in performance between those on a low-carb ketogenic diet and those on a high-carb diet. This finding suggests that the prevailing belief—that high-carb diets are essential for peak athletic performance, especially in high-intensity environments—may not be entirely accurate. The research highlights the importance of a four-week adaptation period to achieve metabolic homeostasis in low-carb diets, aligns with improved glycemic control, and points to significant fat oxidation even at high exercise intensities. The implications challenge traditional dietary paradigms, suggesting athletes and individuals may have more dietary flexibility and choices beyond high-carb intake, highlighting that glucose control and preventing hypoglycemia may be more critical factors for performance than previously thought. This opens a dialogue about how much carbohydrate intake is actually necessary, particularly for non-elite athletes who comprise the majority of the population.
الوجبات الجاهزة
- 🔥 High-carb diets may not be essential for optimal performance in athletes.
- 📉 No difference in performance was noted between low-carb and high-carb diets after six weeks.
- ⏱ A four-week adaptation period is significant for low-carb metabolic homeostasis.
- 🍴 The study suggests more dietary flexibility for athletes, questioning the need for high-carb diets.
- 🏃♂️ Fat oxidation can reach record levels even with reduced glycogen in athletes.
- 🧠 Preventing hypoglycemia is crucial for maintaining performance, possibly more than carbs.
- 📊 Continuous glucose monitoring showed prediabetic signs in some athletes.
- 🧪 Evidence suggests glycogen may not be necessary for performance, contradicting past beliefs.
- 🥤 Carb supplementation may not need to be as high as traditionally recommended during exercise.
- 💡 Challenges to prevailing dietary assumptions provide more dietary choices based on health needs.
الجدول الزمني
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The discussion begins with an exploration of a study that compared low-carb, ketogenic diets with high-carb diets in highly trained triathletes. It was found that over a six-week period, there was no significant difference in performance between the two diet groups, challenging the traditional view that high-carb diets are necessary for optimal athletic performance.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Dr. Andrew examines the changes in metabolism when starting a ketogenic diet. Initial reductions in glucose and insulin, increases in ketone bodies, and altered fuel substrate utilization occur quickly but may require over four weeks to fully stabilize and reflect true metabolic homeostasis. Early studies showing performance decrements in ketogenic diets were often conducted for less than four weeks, suggesting insufficient adaptation time.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
The importance of a four-week adaptation period for ketogenic diets is further discussed. Ketogenic diets have been shown to lower glycogen content, but this might not affect performance detrimentally if given enough adaptation time. Controlled studies on both diet compositions maintained variables like exercise and body composition constant, isolating macronutrient effects. Despite adherence to a low-carb diet, performance in high-intensity efforts matched that of high-carb diets.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
A focus is on the performance of middle-aged athletes on ketogenic diets, revealing that 30% showed pre-diabetic glucose levels via continuous glucose monitoring. This group saw the greatest blood glucose reductions and heightened fat oxidation, illustrating that fitness does not equate to optimal metabolic health. This underscores the potential for ketogenic diets to improve metabolic markers like fat oxidation and glycemic control in athletic populations.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
The conversation delves into the relationship between exercise intensity, fat, and carb oxidation. Traditionally, higher exercise intensity shifts fuel dependence from fats to carbohydrates; however, data indicates that ketosis-adapted athletes can oxidize fat at significant rates even at 85% of VO2 max. This challenges established paradigms regarding macronutrient utilization in high-intensity exercise.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
The discussion shifts back to reevaluating the necessity of carbohydrates for prolonged exercise performance. New studies in triathletes found no difference in performance when comparing low-carb diets to high-carb diets over six weeks, even during sustained low-glycogen 'hitting the wall' exercises. It calls into question the traditional view that carbohydrates are indispensable for endurance sports and introduces the potential alternative reliance on fat oxidation.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
The idea is explored that carbohydrates during exercise might not be solely about replenishing glycogen but about preventing exercise-induced hypoglycemia, which can significantly impact performance. Instudies, minimal carb supplementation during prolonged exercise prevented hypoglycemia and improved endurance performance by 22% in both high-carb and low-carb diets, undermining the notion that vast amounts of carbohydrates are necessary.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Results indicate that even minimal carb supplementation (much lower than traditional recommendations) can prevent exercise-induced hypoglycemia and lead to substantial performance improvements, questioning if the standard carbohydrate intake guidelines are overstated. Continuous monitoring shows normalization of glycemic control in low-carb adapted athletes around four weeks, correlating with peak ketone levels, suggesting a metabolic adaptation period aligning with observed performance stabilization.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
The discussion reflects on the significant role of both the placebo effect and potential carbohydrate-induced cognitive stimulation in perceived performance improvements in sports. The studies used well-controlled environments to minimize confounding factors, showcasing that sustaining a consistent diet over time could level performance irrespective of carbohydrate intake.
- 00:45:00 - 00:54:14
Concluding remarks emphasize the broader implications of diet flexibility for athletes. The findings suggest that athletes can achieve equivalent performance on both low and high-carb diets, providing opportunities to prioritize personal health needs, especially for those managing conditions like pre-diabetes. It promotes an individualized approach to nutrition, debunking the exclusive reliance on high-carb strategies for endurance performance.
الخريطة الذهنية
فيديو أسئلة وأجوبة
What was the main finding of the study discussed?
The study found no performance difference between low-carb and high-carb diets in highly trained triathletes after a six-week adaptation period.
Why is the study significant?
It challenges the prevailing belief that high-carb diets are necessary for optimal athletic performance.
What was the hypothesis about carbohydrate intake during exercise?
The hypothesis was that carbohydrate supplementation might not be as necessary as traditionally thought for performance improvement, questioning the need for high-carb intake.
What is suggested about glycogen's role in performance?
The study suggests that glycogen may not be obligate for performance, opening the possibility for alternative dietary approaches.
How did the study manage the low and high carb diets?
The study controlled for calories, activity, and body composition, only varying the macronutrient composition over a six-week period with thorough oversight using a ketogenic diet.
What is the significance of the four-week adaptation period in the study?
The four-week period is suggested as important for achieving metabolic homeostasis on a ketogenic diet, aligning with glucose control improvements.
What was one surprising physical response noted in the study?
The study noted record levels of fat oxidation at high intensities, indicating fat can fuel high performance even at reduced glycogen levels.
How does the study impact dietary recommendations for athletes?
It suggests that athletes may have more dietary options than previously believed, emphasizing individual choice based on health and performance needs.
What does the study indicate about carbohydrate needs for regular people?
For most people, especially non-elite athletes, high-carb diets may not be necessary, providing flexibility in dietary choices.
What was noted about glucose and performance in these athletes?
Continuous glucose monitoring showed that some athletes, despite being fit, exhibited glucose values that suggest prediabetic conditions.
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- 00:00:00so this is a totally different exercise
- 00:00:01Paradigm uh to
- 00:00:03evaluate what we saw was that when
- 00:00:06comparing this low glycogenic
- 00:00:07environment of of a low carb diet versus
- 00:00:09high glycogenic or a glycogen
- 00:00:11environment of high carb diet over six
- 00:00:12weeks if you adhere to the diet and that
- 00:00:16there was no difference in performance
- 00:00:19and these highly trained competitive
- 00:00:21triathletes that at least at first
- 00:00:23glance illustrates that maybe this
- 00:00:26prevailing Theory needs to be
- 00:00:27reevaluated that high carb diets are are
- 00:00:30the
- 00:00:32Prevailing or necessity for for high-end
- 00:00:34performance on both types of exercise
- 00:00:37spectrums dude Dr Andrew cnck there is
- 00:00:40some stuff coming out on carbohydrates
- 00:00:43working out performance that is
- 00:00:46absolutely going to rock the world I
- 00:00:48mean it's going to flip people on their
- 00:00:51heads and people are going to lose their
- 00:00:52minds we start like really understanding
- 00:00:55what's going on with carbohydrates and
- 00:00:57exercise like dude go for it tell me
- 00:01:00what's going on here so for a long time
- 00:01:02Tom people have always thought and or
- 00:01:04believ that high carbohydrate diets
- 00:01:06predominate in performance and there's a
- 00:01:09lot of evidence that would suggest
- 00:01:11that's
- 00:01:12true however what we did is we took
- 00:01:16highly trained athletes very high V2
- 00:01:19Maxes were running over 50 kilometers
- 00:01:21per week very fit lean body mass and and
- 00:01:25and just this this epitome of high
- 00:01:28athletes High performers
- 00:01:30we gave them low carbohydrate diets and
- 00:01:33a high carbohydrate diet controlled so
- 00:01:35many
- 00:01:37variables at the end of the study what
- 00:01:39we found is that doing a very glycolytic
- 00:01:42dependent anerobic exercise bout a 1em
- 00:01:46time trial and also a 6X 800 met Sprints
- 00:01:52what we saw is that these athletes
- 00:01:54performed exactly the same on a very low
- 00:01:58carbohydrate ketogenic diet versus a
- 00:02:00high carb diet now why might that be
- 00:02:04because all this evidence before has
- 00:02:05suggested that high carbohydrate diets
- 00:02:07are superior and that glucose is such an
- 00:02:11essential fuel for
- 00:02:12performance well let's let's back up for
- 00:02:14a
- 00:02:15second a lot of the evidence that has
- 00:02:18looked at performance in different
- 00:02:21domains has often looked and shown a
- 00:02:24decrement to these ketogenic diets has
- 00:02:26often look at these diets in less than
- 00:02:28four weeks in duration now there's
- 00:02:30multiple lines of evidence that
- 00:02:31illustrate that four weeks may be
- 00:02:35important for achieving certain metrics
- 00:02:38of metabolic homeostasis post diet
- 00:02:40initiation anyone who's maybe heard of a
- 00:02:43ketogenic diet can appreciate that you
- 00:02:45have these changes in Mineral load uh
- 00:02:47you may lose very quick water weight all
- 00:02:49these metabolic changes are happening
- 00:02:51very very quickly so what are those
- 00:02:53changes when someone initiates a
- 00:02:55ketogenic diet the first thing that
- 00:02:56happens they're consuming less
- 00:02:58carbohydrates we know that Within the
- 00:03:00first meal you lower the total glucose
- 00:03:03load and then start to lower total
- 00:03:05insulin secretion within the first 24
- 00:03:09hours you start to see increases in
- 00:03:10Ketone bodies and fat oxidation and also
- 00:03:12changes in subtle changes in things like
- 00:03:15respiratory quotient which is This
- 00:03:17Global body assessment of of fuel
- 00:03:20substrate change we know that a things
- 00:03:24like glucose come down in a fast within
- 00:03:27about 7 days and kind of plateau there
- 00:03:30um but that's fast uh in this context we
- 00:03:34see that things like the fuel use
- 00:03:37changes within maybe a three to four or
- 00:03:40sorry two to three week period uh it's
- 00:03:42pretty quick insulin's
- 00:03:44quick glucose total glucose exposure
- 00:03:47it's in instant right so a lot of these
- 00:03:49changes that people have focused on
- 00:03:50thought well these changes happen so
- 00:03:51quickly you only needed to do this diet
- 00:03:53for 7 to 12 days or sorry 7 to 14 days
- 00:03:56maybe most 21 days to really test the
- 00:03:58difference
- 00:04:00not so fast okay there's a lot of signs
- 00:04:03that show that even when you go on a
- 00:04:04full-fledged fast such a powerful
- 00:04:07stimulus uh that things like Ketone
- 00:04:10production don't begin to show signs of
- 00:04:13normalization till at least 3 weeks well
- 00:04:15what if you're doing something like
- 00:04:16ketogenic diet with the stimulus is not
- 00:04:17as potent you know it's not as as much
- 00:04:20of a lever you're pulling it it may take
- 00:04:22longer than that okay and so there's all
- 00:04:25these signs that maybe we're not
- 00:04:27achieving metabolic homeostasis as so
- 00:04:29many people have have thought
- 00:04:30initially earlier on and so all these
- 00:04:33studies that have looked at less than
- 00:04:34four
- 00:04:35weeks maybe they're an adaptation period
- 00:04:38And if you're causing a stress such as
- 00:04:40an adaptation on top of trying to
- 00:04:41perform that's two stressors on this
- 00:04:43side of the arm on the ketogenic diet
- 00:04:45arm versus someone who's probably
- 00:04:46already doing a high carb diet and
- 00:04:47didn't do any change so what do you
- 00:04:49think is going to perform worse what's
- 00:04:50not surprising that within the studies
- 00:04:52that have shown less than four weeks in
- 00:04:53duration not all but many of these
- 00:04:54Studies have shown up performance
- 00:04:56decrement to very low carbohydrate
- 00:04:58ketogenic diets
- 00:05:01and we also know that those diets can uh
- 00:05:03lower glycogen content that has been
- 00:05:05shown in a number of studies so after
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- 00:05:40seed down below that is a 25% off
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- 00:05:45biotic I would probably guess that you'd
- 00:05:48notice a difference within about a week
- 00:05:49of taking it start noticing it
- 00:05:51digestively you might start noticing it
- 00:05:53in other ways but for me I got more
- 00:05:55energy I started sleeping better things
- 00:05:57just seemed more regulated so anyhow
- 00:05:59that link down below 25% off so how is
- 00:06:03it that
- 00:06:04we gave a very low carbohydrate diet we
- 00:06:07controlled the calories throughout the
- 00:06:09entire study across both diets we
- 00:06:12controlled the activity of these
- 00:06:13athletes they kept their activity
- 00:06:15consistent and were consistent across
- 00:06:17both diets so same volume of activity we
- 00:06:20also controlled their body composition
- 00:06:22okay so we had all these controls that
- 00:06:24we know change metabolism also change
- 00:06:27and cause their own form of stress and
- 00:06:30and and change overall physiology so we
- 00:06:32controlled all of that the only thing
- 00:06:34that changed was the macron nutric
- 00:06:36compensation of the diet but we gave
- 00:06:39them four weeks on the diet controlled
- 00:06:42it registered dietitian was overseeing
- 00:06:44this we confirmed uh Ketone body
- 00:06:45elevation for compliance all these
- 00:06:47things were controlled and what we saw
- 00:06:49is they performed a on M time trial to
- 00:06:52Max effort so if anyone's run a mile as
- 00:06:54fast as they can that's not an easy
- 00:06:56effort this is a very intense effort and
- 00:06:59these are an who are are Runners so like
- 00:07:01they were really going after it we also
- 00:07:03did 6X 800 met Sprints so these is like
- 00:07:06hardcore really high effort what we
- 00:07:10showed is that these athletes in these
- 00:07:12Anor robic
- 00:07:13environments very glycogen dependent
- 00:07:16very uh carbohydrate dependent a carb
- 00:07:19oxidative dependent performed exactly
- 00:07:22the same on a ketogenic diet as they did
- 00:07:25on a high carb
- 00:07:28diet why why why would that be you know
- 00:07:31everything that would suggest that you
- 00:07:32would need carbs to perform better and
- 00:07:35in these anerobic exercise bouts this
- 00:07:39led us to to have some followon work but
- 00:07:43before I described it there was other
- 00:07:45key details in the study that were very
- 00:07:47important we tracked the glycemic
- 00:07:50control of these athletes who were in
- 00:07:51middle age the reason that's so
- 00:07:53important is because you have these
- 00:07:55categories of individual that you can
- 00:07:57put into like metabolic Health buckets
- 00:08:00on a big pitcher scale globally or big
- 00:08:02pitcher general population level young
- 00:08:04healthy individuals who seem to largely
- 00:08:06be immune to most metabolic uh disease
- 00:08:08and dysfunction although not completely
- 00:08:09nowadays but historically speaking
- 00:08:12middle AG where you're in this in
- 00:08:13between period before you reach aging 65
- 00:08:16years age or higher where individuals
- 00:08:18are at much higher reliable much higher
- 00:08:21reliably higher risk for Many metabolic
- 00:08:23related diseases
- 00:08:25diabetes uh the list I could go on a
- 00:08:28list of this but either way we looked at
- 00:08:30this in between period because we know
- 00:08:31that
- 00:08:32individuals there are changes that are
- 00:08:35occurring in this middle-age window that
- 00:08:37are putting people at risk later on they
- 00:08:39may be subtle they they may be seen but
- 00:08:41we're very interested to look at that
- 00:08:42because the theory is like if you
- 00:08:44exercise all the time you would be
- 00:08:46completely healthy but what we found is
- 00:08:47that actually 30% of these athletes who
- 00:08:50were
- 00:08:51fit very uh low body fat running over 50
- 00:08:55kilm per week 30% of them had signs of
- 00:08:59continuous glucose monitoring so we
- 00:09:01track these individuals over the third
- 00:09:0331 days on the diet using not just one
- 00:09:06single finger stick of their blood
- 00:09:08glucose like a fasting glucose value or
- 00:09:10a single time point we track them 24/7
- 00:09:13for 31 days and what it showed is that
- 00:09:15their glycemic values on the a CGM which
- 00:09:18tracks very well with other metrics that
- 00:09:20are are diagnostic for diabetes with
- 00:09:23values that
- 00:09:24were in line with pre-diabetes
- 00:09:27okay including fasting Val
- 00:09:30and 30% of them that 30% also happened
- 00:09:34to be the hyperresponders to the diet so
- 00:09:38they had the greatest drop in blood
- 00:09:40glucose in this study we also showed the
- 00:09:44highest rates of fat oxidation ever
- 00:09:47reported at very high intensities so
- 00:09:49historically speaking if you were to
- 00:09:52take the this or say the audience this
- 00:09:55and you say that this line up here is
- 00:09:58car oxidation and this line like here is
- 00:09:59fat oxidation or let's flip it actually
- 00:10:02for very low intensity so this is an
- 00:10:03intensity curve okay and for very low
- 00:10:06intensities over here let's say you're
- 00:10:07you're sitting down or then you go into
- 00:10:10a walk or then you go into a brisk walk
- 00:10:13into a small slow run and all the way to
- 00:10:15like a max out Sprint that's this bottom
- 00:10:17line down here right so from low
- 00:10:19intensity to very very high intensity
- 00:10:22and you look at the amount of fat and
- 00:10:24carb oxidized during these intense
- 00:10:26exercise bout we see that Fat's very
- 00:10:28high as a predominant fuel during very
- 00:10:30low intensity and carbs are very low and
- 00:10:33it actually historically speaking and
- 00:10:36that as you get closer to around the 60
- 00:10:38to 70% of your V2 Max it crosses over
- 00:10:43it's called The Crossover point where
- 00:10:44the amount of fat and carbs consumed
- 00:10:47flips because now you're in this very
- 00:10:49glycogenic high intensity energy
- 00:10:52dependent uh exercise or or stimulus
- 00:10:54which is exercise and so you need more
- 00:10:57carbs because it's it's more anerobic
- 00:10:59and that has been the Paradigm what we
- 00:11:01showed is that even well beyond that 70%
- 00:11:06Mark uh at be over 85% of someone's V2
- 00:11:09Max that fat oxidation was actually at
- 00:11:13record levels in people who had adapted
- 00:11:14for at least four weeks on a ketogen
- 00:11:17diet this was over uh 1.5 grams of fat
- 00:11:21um being oxidized at a set rate which is
- 00:11:24extremely high like record levels that
- 00:11:26had not been reported before and was
- 00:11:29amazing about this is this Illustrated
- 00:11:31that individuals who adhere and adapt to
- 00:11:34a ketogenic diet for a long enough on
- 00:11:38the diet while controlling their
- 00:11:39activity calories body composition
- 00:11:41throughout it so they're not trying to
- 00:11:42caloric restrict they're not trying to
- 00:11:43increase their activity load they're
- 00:11:44just using the diet switch as their
- 00:11:47stimulus they can not only shift their
- 00:11:50substrate utilization needs to meet the
- 00:11:52demands of very high intensity levels of
- 00:11:54exercise which have historically only
- 00:11:56been thought to be utilizing
- 00:11:57carbohydrates which that study obviously
- 00:12:00shows it's not the
- 00:12:01case but it also shows that you can have
- 00:12:04equivalent levels performance in these
- 00:12:07very glycogen historically glycogen gly
- 00:12:09uh glycogen dependent um high carbox of
- 00:12:14forms of exercise are very high intense
- 00:12:16so that really flipped us on our head
- 00:12:19and I think a lot of other people on our
- 00:12:20head that maybe there's something here
- 00:12:22and that maybe the way we thought about
- 00:12:24carbohydrates in the diet being obligate
- 00:12:26for Optimal Performance may not true
- 00:12:30which then led to a
- 00:12:32theory okay if you do these low
- 00:12:35carbohydrate diets and you have lower
- 00:12:36glycogen content uh in the diet maybe
- 00:12:40glycogen is not obligate maybe there's
- 00:12:42something else that's important to
- 00:12:44dictate performance in these settings uh
- 00:12:48against low and high carb so then we
- 00:12:50initiated a follow- on study and a lot
- 00:12:52of this work was done with Philip prims
- 00:12:53at gr City College uh Tim noes who's a a
- 00:12:56world-renowned uh exercise physiologist
- 00:12:58public
- 00:12:59record numbers of paper and had some
- 00:13:01major discoveries in the field X Fizz
- 00:13:04and what this follow one study wanted to
- 00:13:06look at is
- 00:13:09okay maybe there's something outside of
- 00:13:12glycogen or that is going on here maybe
- 00:13:15the prevailing Paradigm was that you
- 00:13:18know high carb are superior right that's
- 00:13:20number one but number two is also that
- 00:13:23carb supplementation during exercise
- 00:13:25improves performance and delays early
- 00:13:27onset of fatigue especially in these
- 00:13:29long duration exercise
- 00:13:32bouts well we wanted to test that and
- 00:13:35challenge that theory so the first thing
- 00:13:38we did is we took healthy athletes these
- 00:13:42are triathletes so I I don't Bel little
- 00:13:44them these are highly competitive
- 00:13:45athletes Tri athletes who are getting
- 00:13:47close to 200 kilomet per week in cycle
- 00:13:51distance okay fit very high V2 Maxes um
- 00:13:55again this this is a highly competitive
- 00:13:58uh highly trained athlete so not you
- 00:14:00know some sary person off the street and
- 00:14:04what we found is that when we put these
- 00:14:07individuals again on this diet but this
- 00:14:10time we we put them on the diet for at
- 00:14:12least 6 weeks okay um again doing
- 00:14:16everything we can we controlled calories
- 00:14:18we controlled activity um in in this
- 00:14:21again big stimuluses that are important
- 00:14:23to control to really isolate out
- 00:14:24macronutrient
- 00:14:26effects what we saw is when we used a
- 00:14:31low carb diet which historically with
- 00:14:33lower glycogen content versus a high
- 00:14:34carb diet we're really comparing here a
- 00:14:38different model you know is glycogen
- 00:14:41potentially obligate and what we found
- 00:14:44is that what we we actually looked at
- 00:14:47very prolonged aerobic exercise we
- 00:14:50actually asked people these cyclists to
- 00:14:52hit the wall so to speak this idea that
- 00:14:55we wanted them to go all the way into
- 00:14:56the point where they volitionally
- 00:14:58fatigued so we tested their V2 Max put
- 00:15:01them at 70% of their V2 Max
- 00:15:03so serious effort and we asked them to
- 00:15:06go as long as they could until they hit
- 00:15:08the wall now the wall has often been
- 00:15:11ascribed back to the 1921 in jamama to
- 00:15:14be associated with
- 00:15:15hypoglycemia okay there was a paper that
- 00:15:18showed that when people hit the wall so
- 00:15:20to speak anyone exercise Fizz may have
- 00:15:23felt this when they did a long duration
- 00:15:24endurance exercise about like a marathon
- 00:15:27that they may start developing signs of
- 00:15:28what is called called exercise induced
- 00:15:30hypoglycemia and this was originally
- 00:15:32shown back in the 1920s in a in a
- 00:15:34journal of American Medical Association
- 00:15:36um very prominent Journal at the time
- 00:15:38and then then showed that it was glucose
- 00:15:40levels that were low and that the
- 00:15:41patients who were doing these marathons
- 00:15:43actually had signs of
- 00:15:45hypoglycemia uh well established signs
- 00:15:47of hypoglycemia shaking irritability
- 00:15:49paleness and that if they gave carbs in
- 00:15:53the form of food they didn't have this
- 00:15:56response so originally there was this
- 00:15:58thinking that okay if we mitigate
- 00:16:01hypoglycemia using carbohydrates that
- 00:16:04may prolong exercise in this long
- 00:16:06duration exercise B so the first thing
- 00:16:08we tested of course was just the
- 00:16:09comparison of this prevailing Dogma that
- 00:16:12not just doing on the study I referred
- 00:16:14to before was this highly glycolitic
- 00:16:17Anor robic exercise where we saw no
- 00:16:18difference between ketogenic diet and
- 00:16:20high carb diet now we're switching the
- 00:16:22Paradigm we're looking at very prolonged
- 00:16:25endurance exercise at decently High
- 00:16:27intensities Till people hit the wall
- 00:16:29until they couldn't go any further
- 00:16:31volitionally uh and they fatigued out on
- 00:16:34objective metrics of not able to
- 00:16:36maintain the power output or they just
- 00:16:38they they they gave
- 00:16:40out so this is a totally different
- 00:16:42exercise Paradigm uh to
- 00:16:44evaluate what we saw was that when
- 00:16:47comparing this low glycogenic
- 00:16:48environment of of a low carb diet versus
- 00:16:50high glycogenic or a glycogen
- 00:16:52environment of High car diet over six
- 00:16:53weeks if you adhere to the
- 00:16:56diet that there was no difference and
- 00:16:59performance and these highly trained
- 00:17:01competitive triathletes that at least at
- 00:17:04first glance illustrates that maybe this
- 00:17:07prevailing Theory needs to be
- 00:17:08reevaluated that high carb diets are are
- 00:17:11the
- 00:17:13Prevailing or necessity for for high-end
- 00:17:16performance on both types of exercise
- 00:17:19spectrums now the second thing to that
- 00:17:22was that we wanted to
- 00:17:24evaluate if you gave carb
- 00:17:27supplementation again we talked about
- 00:17:29this idea of exercise induced
- 00:17:30hypoglycemia well to my knowledge very
- 00:17:32few or no one has really looked at this
- 00:17:33in the context of a very low
- 00:17:34carbohydrate ketogenic diet because
- 00:17:36there's this idea that you can kind of
- 00:17:37go on forever on a ketogenic diet and
- 00:17:38you won't Bonk at least some people say
- 00:17:40that whereas the other theory is that
- 00:17:42well if you're in a low glycogen
- 00:17:43environment and you're also taking no
- 00:17:47carbohydrates and and we know that these
- 00:17:49diets can lower blood sugar wouldn't it
- 00:17:51put you at more risk for hypoglycemia in
- 00:17:53theory it would actually put you at
- 00:17:55higher risk and so we then said okay we
- 00:17:58want to provide carb supplementation not
- 00:18:01just on a high carb diet which is the
- 00:18:02prevailing performance optimization
- 00:18:04protocol you do high carb diets and you
- 00:18:07give a certain amount of carbohydrates
- 00:18:09at set intervals usually about 20-
- 00:18:10minute intervals and you're usually
- 00:18:12shooting for anywhere between 60 grams
- 00:18:14per hour so that's 20 grams every 20
- 00:18:17minutes or up to now in some
- 00:18:20recommendations up to 120 grams per hour
- 00:18:23okay so a ridiculous amount of
- 00:18:24carbohydrates that are
- 00:18:26consumed what we did instead is we
- 00:18:29actually provided only enough
- 00:18:31carbohydrates 6 to 12 times lower than
- 00:18:34those uh re those optimization uh
- 00:18:37carbohydrate protocols with the thinking
- 00:18:40that we're only going to give enough
- 00:18:41carbohydrate to mitigate exercise
- 00:18:42induced
- 00:18:43hypoglycemia we're isolating out the
- 00:18:45glycemic effect by doing the diet and
- 00:18:47actually prolong fast of up to 15 hours
- 00:18:48before
- 00:18:50exercise and then we're going to give
- 00:18:51carb supplementation across diet what we
- 00:18:54saw is not only did people perform
- 00:18:56exactly the same on a low carb vers high
- 00:18:58carb over six weeks of adaptation to
- 00:19:00hitting the wall prolonged exercise kind
- 00:19:03of rethinking this whole Paradigm of
- 00:19:06high carb dver Superior for prolonged
- 00:19:08exercise but then we gave carb
- 00:19:10supplementation on both approaches only
- 00:19:12up to 3.4 gram approximately because
- 00:19:15it's weight based every 20 minutes for
- 00:19:17these athletes so very very minimal
- 00:19:19levels not only one was it able to
- 00:19:22mitigate exercise induced hypoglycemia
- 00:19:24so exercise induced hypoglycemia
- 00:19:25happened in almost the majority of both
- 00:19:27diet groups okay okay it completely
- 00:19:30eliminated that across both diet groups
- 00:19:32and led to a 22% performance increase in
- 00:19:36prolonged
- 00:19:37exercise in these athletes illustrating
- 00:19:40that irrespective of diet high or low
- 00:19:42carb that you saw in performance
- 00:19:45Improvement but both improved similarly
- 00:19:50illustrating that it doesn't matter the
- 00:19:51diet you're on that carb supplementation
- 00:19:53may be important but it may not be as
- 00:19:56much as you think you need okay some the
- 00:19:58prevailing me uh uh uh thinking is that
- 00:20:00you need 60 to 120 gram per hour at the
- 00:20:04very least this questions whether that
- 00:20:07may be necessary and it certainly
- 00:20:09requires future evaluation because we're
- 00:20:11only giving 3.4 gr 3.4 to 3 six gram
- 00:20:15every 20 minutes which is 6 to 12 times
- 00:20:18lower than is
- 00:20:20recommended we also put continuous
- 00:20:22glucose monitors on these athletes as
- 00:20:24well over the 6- we period no surprise
- 00:20:27here we saw this Improvement and and
- 00:20:29mean glucose reduce mean glucose reduce
- 00:20:31standard deviation and this happened
- 00:20:32over the duration of the 6 weeks but
- 00:20:35then when we dissected out the week by
- 00:20:38week glycemic impact we actually saw
- 00:20:42that over the whole diet glycemic
- 00:20:43control was improved if you consider
- 00:20:46lower mean glucose and lower standard
- 00:20:48standard deviation Improvement but at
- 00:20:50the four-week Mark after four weeks we
- 00:20:52saw that glycemic control when looking
- 00:20:55at 24-hour glycemic control Norm
- 00:20:58normalized on the low carb diet in these
- 00:21:02normal glycemic
- 00:21:04athletes what that seems to suggest is
- 00:21:07that four-week time period is in
- 00:21:09complete alignment with the prevailing
- 00:21:10theory that four weeks may be important
- 00:21:13for an adaptation period on a low carb
- 00:21:16diet in order to have equivalent levels
- 00:21:19performance to high carb diet so this
- 00:21:20adaptation time period but what we also
- 00:21:23saw is that Ketone levels reached a peak
- 00:21:27level at the four-week time point and
- 00:21:30then maintain that peak level so reach
- 00:21:32of peak and maintenance which aligned
- 00:21:35perfectly with this normalization of
- 00:21:37glycemia so this isn't to be confused
- 00:21:40with someone who has diabetes goes on a
- 00:21:41low carb diet and then sees this
- 00:21:43reduction in glucose that is maintained
- 00:21:44these are a normal glycemic athletes who
- 00:21:46don't have any signs of pre-diabetes
- 00:21:48because we we actually looked at that
- 00:21:51and they had a lowering of glucose in
- 00:21:53theory that might actually put them at
- 00:21:54risk for early early exercise induced
- 00:21:56hypoglycemia but that went away after
- 00:21:58four weeks
- 00:21:59so maybe there's something to some
- 00:22:01metabolic signatures of adaptation that
- 00:22:05we were observing here that may be
- 00:22:07related to glycemic control which aligns
- 00:22:10with the the Ketone
- 00:22:12level Peak and also maintenance which
- 00:22:15also aligns with prior literature so
- 00:22:18this is a very very interesting study
- 00:22:22which ultimately leads us to some key
- 00:22:26conclusions one
- 00:22:29it seems to suggest that when we did a
- 00:22:30study to actually look at low glycogen
- 00:22:32environments versus high glycogen
- 00:22:34environments there's no difference in
- 00:22:35performance so it leis alludes to this
- 00:22:37idea that glycogen may not be obligate
- 00:22:39for
- 00:22:40performance and this was in prolonged
- 00:22:43and prolonged strenous endurance
- 00:22:46exercise for people to hit the wall the
- 00:22:49second thing it also seems to illustrate
- 00:22:51is that carbohydrate supplementation on
- 00:22:53the batch of a low glycogen environment
- 00:22:56seemed to be sufficient to improve
- 00:22:58performance substantially 22% on both
- 00:23:01dietary paradigms and completely
- 00:23:02eliminated exercise induced hypoglycemia
- 00:23:04which was observed without carbohydrate
- 00:23:07supplementation so that seems to suggest
- 00:23:09that that is a key determinant of
- 00:23:12performance in this study which was
- 00:23:16designed to isolate out that impact okay
- 00:23:19so it seems like uh glycemic control and
- 00:23:21exercise induced hypoglycemia is a
- 00:23:22performance determinant not and again
- 00:23:25this goes all way back to that 1921
- 00:23:26paper that shows that if you give carb
- 00:23:28supplementation that it's important but
- 00:23:30the levels of performance Improvement we
- 00:23:31were seeing although we can't draw a
- 00:23:33direct line of of overlap to these other
- 00:23:36studies if you look at some of the Met
- 00:23:38analysis looking at 30 gram to 80 grams
- 00:23:41of
- 00:23:41carbohydrates um with exercise the
- 00:23:45amount of performance improvements are
- 00:23:47largely analogous to what we were seeing
- 00:23:49so this opens a can of worms do we need
- 00:23:53120 grams per hour uh you know maybe
- 00:23:56these Elite athletes maybe there's
- 00:23:57something
- 00:23:58maybe they truly do but let's back up
- 00:24:01for a second 99% of people are not
- 00:24:04elited athletes okay anyone who is the
- 00:24:07normal person out there even myself like
- 00:24:09and Tom you you work out all the time I
- 00:24:11work out all the time um you may be
- 00:24:13pretty close to that Elite category but
- 00:24:15what I'm talking about here is like
- 00:24:16someone who dedicates their entire life
- 00:24:19to Performance and they are in the top 0
- 00:24:211% of their Endeavor they're
- 00:24:23biologically and phenotypically
- 00:24:25different okay what we're talking about
- 00:24:27is the rest of the 9% what happens to
- 00:24:30the rest of the 99% of the world in
- 00:24:32these studies and we were even looking
- 00:24:33at the high end of that these highly
- 00:24:35competitive athletes and we're not
- 00:24:37seeing this prevailing Dogma that high
- 00:24:41carbohydrate diets are obligate for
- 00:24:43performance optimization in fact if you
- 00:24:46habituate to a diet long enough what
- 00:24:47this is largely telling us is that you
- 00:24:50have options maybe you don't need to do
- 00:24:54a high carb diet if it doesn't fit for
- 00:24:55you maybe if you're someone who strugg
- 00:24:58strling with pre-diabetes maybe the
- 00:25:00health considerations of a dietary
- 00:25:02approach like a low carb diet to lower
- 00:25:04glucose control should predominate
- 00:25:06because this idea that you need to pound
- 00:25:08carbohydrates and then supplement all
- 00:25:09the time during your your Marathon that
- 00:25:12you're running isn't necessary it opens
- 00:25:15up choice for the athlete to make
- 00:25:17decisions not just about performance but
- 00:25:20also about health dude
- 00:25:24so it makes so much sense that
- 00:25:29the decline in
- 00:25:30performance would be more of an issue
- 00:25:33with going hypoglycemic than being low
- 00:25:36on glycogen it makes so much more sense
- 00:25:39that that is the case right that is a
- 00:25:41that is a I know I overuse this term but
- 00:25:43it seems like that is just a bigger
- 00:25:45lever that would make you feel something
- 00:25:47much more so than glycogen just
- 00:25:49logically it just seems like we have so
- 00:25:51many systems in processes to protect us
- 00:25:53like when that happens and when if
- 00:25:56glucose gets low then yes that's an
- 00:25:57alarm
- 00:25:58that's an alarm right so but you're it's
- 00:26:01happening at such like a a high
- 00:26:03performance scale that you might not
- 00:26:05think of it as like a metabolic alarm
- 00:26:07saying emergency in your body you're
- 00:26:09just registering it as performance
- 00:26:10decline because that's the lens in which
- 00:26:11you're looking at the world y so
- 00:26:13performance decline performance decline
- 00:26:15when in reality it's just metabolic
- 00:26:17alarm sounding but it's manifesting in
- 00:26:20performance decline but that's the
- 00:26:21that's the lens that you choose to view
- 00:26:22it in because that's what you're
- 00:26:23concerned with at that time rightfully
- 00:26:25so you're an athlete and it makes sense
- 00:26:28because what the amount of blood or
- 00:26:29sugar that we actually have circulating
- 00:26:31through our blood at any point in time
- 00:26:33is such a small so much smaller than
- 00:26:34people think right I've always almost
- 00:26:36always called on the fact that like what
- 00:26:39good and okay full disclaimer I eat
- 00:26:42carbs I I'm not afraid of carbs I don't
- 00:26:44mind carbs I don't say I particularly
- 00:26:46like them but I don't mind them right
- 00:26:49I've never it's never made sense to me
- 00:26:51that having a bowl of oatmeal before
- 00:26:52going into a workout would do anything
- 00:26:54for you it has never made sense to me
- 00:26:55because I'm just like how much do you
- 00:26:57actually need to elevate your blood
- 00:26:58sugar and how much is that going to
- 00:26:59change like and your and that's not
- 00:27:01going to to absorb into glycogen anyway
- 00:27:03in that like it's not going to be
- 00:27:04synthesized into glycogen in a short
- 00:27:05amount of time anyway so I've always
- 00:27:06kind of called I'm like that doesn't
- 00:27:07make sense that doesn't add up to me
- 00:27:09anyway and there's some evidence to back
- 00:27:10that up and now I'm like I see this like
- 00:27:14it makes sense all we're trying to do is
- 00:27:16just stop the hypoglycemia so what is
- 00:27:18the bare minimum that you can get across
- 00:27:21and then it's probably opening up
- 00:27:23Pandora's box of all kinds of positive
- 00:27:24things now you're eliminating GI stress
- 00:27:27you know in these athletes I mean that's
- 00:27:29the biggest issue that I have if I'm
- 00:27:31doing an ultra or something like that is
- 00:27:33like how do I get fuel in uh but I My
- 00:27:36Philosophy even when doing an ultra has
- 00:27:38always been what is the not even with
- 00:27:40glucose everything what is the bare
- 00:27:42minimum amount of fuel that I need to
- 00:27:44get on board I don't want to digest like
- 00:27:46I want to just keep myself alive yeah
- 00:27:50and that's just Earth shattering man I
- 00:27:52mean it makes so much sense and I also
- 00:27:54want to State you know I think it's
- 00:27:56important to to caveat this by saying
- 00:27:57you know
- 00:27:59there are studies that have looked at 60
- 00:28:01vers 90 vers 120 gram per hour and then
- 00:28:04they show that there's some indications
- 00:28:06that as you go higher and higher and
- 00:28:07higher there's a better performance
- 00:28:08output in those studies what we were
- 00:28:11specifically trying to do here in this
- 00:28:13design was eliminate glycogen and a key
- 00:28:16contributor in fact actually have a
- 00:28:18comparison between low and high carb um
- 00:28:20specifically utilizing a diet approach
- 00:28:22to lower glycogen content along with a
- 00:28:2415-hour fast before the exercise which
- 00:28:26would further lower that you know these
- 00:28:27are both reliable strategies in
- 00:28:29literature to do that and then we were
- 00:28:31trying to isolate that across diet and
- 00:28:33then also give carbohydrates on top of
- 00:28:35that and and it really allowed us to
- 00:28:37answer a key question which is exercise
- 00:28:39induced hypoglycemia is a known
- 00:28:42determinate is a determinate of
- 00:28:44performance and that we maybe should re
- 00:28:46considerer how important glycogen not
- 00:28:49that it's not important there is some
- 00:28:51evidence that suggest that glycogen is
- 00:28:53an important determent of performance
- 00:28:54I'm not saying it's not I'm just saying
- 00:28:56that we isolated out
- 00:28:59that as a key variable and showed that
- 00:29:00if you compare these across diets that
- 00:29:03you're you're allowing yourself to see
- 00:29:06some isolation that some people may
- 00:29:07criticize it and say well that was a low
- 00:29:09carb diet and you're fully subsidizing
- 00:29:12that lower glycogen with fat oxidation
- 00:29:14but that would then require people to
- 00:29:16acknowledge that fat oxidation is a key
- 00:29:18determine of performance both in our
- 00:29:19original study at very high intensity
- 00:29:21levels and also in prolong exercise so
- 00:29:25which this is less controversial but the
- 00:29:26original is for was definitely
- 00:29:28controversial well so um there's a lot
- 00:29:30of
- 00:29:32reconsideration that I think this
- 00:29:34literature on these unique diets these
- 00:29:36very low carbohydrate ketogenic diets uh
- 00:29:40has opened our eyes to a reevaluation of
- 00:29:44some of our understanding of the
- 00:29:45crossover point and is that in fact the
- 00:29:48true crossover point because even some
- 00:29:50evidence in high carb diets don't
- 00:29:51actually match up with that that that
- 00:29:53range that crossover point when when I
- 00:29:56was doing the V2 Max test with with um
- 00:29:59Andy Galpin yeah he was like dude you're
- 00:30:02he almost went so far as saying like you
- 00:30:04are U carbohydrate intolerant like he
- 00:30:07was like because like my fat my fat
- 00:30:11oxidation rate was happening at such a
- 00:30:13high intensity he was pretty blown away
- 00:30:15he was kind of like that's I almost
- 00:30:18wanted him to just do a muscle biopsy
- 00:30:20and I want I want right then and there I
- 00:30:22was curious what my glycogen was at you
- 00:30:23know like point is is that as someone
- 00:30:26that has and further follow on stuff to
- 00:30:29probably uncover like how long do some
- 00:30:31of these adaptations last even you know
- 00:30:33for example I spent years close to you
- 00:30:36know a decade on a ketogenic diet yeah
- 00:30:38and I still fast regularly although I'm
- 00:30:40not on a ketogenic diet and I would
- 00:30:42imagine I don't want to go too into the
- 00:30:43weeds that I've preserved a lot of that
- 00:30:45adaptation by continually fasting and
- 00:30:49almost exclusively training even ultra
- 00:30:51distance training in a fasted State I've
- 00:30:53probably maintained some of that
- 00:30:55adaptation um to the point where like
- 00:30:57when I take a V2 Max test I'm not even
- 00:31:00surpassing a one re until pretty much
- 00:31:01the test is done and I'm going into
- 00:31:03oxygen you know debt and Recovery
- 00:31:05afterwards yeah then I'm surpassing that
- 00:31:08and was that test done let me ask a
- 00:31:10question was that test done while you
- 00:31:11were on a ketogenic diet or not on
- 00:31:13ketogen fasted about 18 hours fasted but
- 00:31:15were you on a ketogenic diet prior to
- 00:31:16that um no no interesting okay yeah I'd
- 00:31:20say about 100 grams of cars a day so
- 00:31:22yeah there's there's some interesting
- 00:31:23evidence um by Flockhart and larsson's
- 00:31:27group uh actually looking at athletes
- 00:31:30who adapt via exercise so like
- 00:31:34individuals who do these very long
- 00:31:35duration aerobic exercise bouts and are
- 00:31:37engaged in exercise on a regular basis
- 00:31:39independent of dietary Paradigm that
- 00:31:41when they start flipping towards higher
- 00:31:42levels of fat oxidation um one that's OB
- 00:31:46very predictive and associative at least
- 00:31:49on the high carb Paradigm in athletes if
- 00:31:51you have higher levels of fat oxidation
- 00:31:52during exercise it's often associated
- 00:31:54with better performance but he also
- 00:31:56showed interestingly enough that when
- 00:31:58you start increasing fat oxidation these
- 00:31:59athletes that they also had poor or
- 00:32:01glucose tolerance test glycemic control
- 00:32:04and so um again this gets back to the
- 00:32:07conversation we had uh a different point
- 00:32:09about physiologic insulin resistance and
- 00:32:12there's different stimuluses to pull
- 00:32:13here nutrition is clearly one of the
- 00:32:17most powerful and that the most powerful
- 00:32:19in shifting carb to Fat oxidation um and
- 00:32:22particularly on the extreme ends of
- 00:32:23saying really lowering carbohydrates you
- 00:32:24can get fat oxidation levels that you
- 00:32:26wouldn't see an extra exer size based
- 00:32:29stimulus um but you know they're they're
- 00:32:32both facilitating similar things and so
- 00:32:35uh it it's it's a very interesting
- 00:32:37conversation uh in your case where you
- 00:32:39have been on a ketogen type for so long
- 00:32:42there was some evidence although it's
- 00:32:44your scenario is so unique that when
- 00:32:47someone was on a long adapted ketogenic
- 00:32:49diet that if they reintroduced
- 00:32:50carbohydrates that they didn't
- 00:32:51necessarily break fat oxidation in
- 00:32:54ketogenesis now if someone were to be
- 00:32:55doing a ketogenic diet for like 5 6
- 00:32:57seven days they did that yeah you might
- 00:32:59like totally obliterate that but in your
- 00:33:01so that study did it in someone who
- 00:33:04prolonged adherence to a ketogenic diet
- 00:33:06and so that at least alludes to this
- 00:33:08idea of what you are potentially seeing
- 00:33:10which is these remarkably high fat
- 00:33:12oxidation levels although you know it it
- 00:33:15you have to be blind to see you're not
- 00:33:16fit okay and I also worked out with you
- 00:33:18earlier so I know you're actually in
- 00:33:20shape shape on an exercise level and so
- 00:33:24maybe there's an exercise component to
- 00:33:25that that's also playing into this in
- 00:33:27fact argue there's no doubt both are
- 00:33:29playing into it we know both are
- 00:33:30important to it but the degree to which
- 00:33:34one predominates the other is an
- 00:33:36interesting question but at least when
- 00:33:37we talked about fat and carb oxidation
- 00:33:39that you know if you do something like
- 00:33:40ketogenic diet that will lead to Fat
- 00:33:42oxidation levels that I don't think many
- 00:33:44other similes or any can actually match
- 00:33:46and I love that you had uh you know Tim
- 00:33:48involved in this like I've uh fortunate
- 00:33:50enough to have you know Tim interview
- 00:33:53Tim I mean one of the few I couldn't get
- 00:33:54in person but was one of the few that I
- 00:33:56was like yeah I'll do a virtual
- 00:33:57interview with you been a fan of his
- 00:33:58work for such a long time and he talked
- 00:34:00about even in that interview um heck for
- 00:34:03the sake of it we can even cut to a
- 00:34:04chunk of that interview because it so
- 00:34:05interesting yeah let me just I must take
- 00:34:07one provisor there to our discussions
- 00:34:10currently I'm I'm writing a paper which
- 00:34:12I've been working on for about a year
- 00:34:14and it looks at all the studies of
- 00:34:17carbohydrate ingestion during exercise
- 00:34:19or before exercise before
- 00:34:21during and there are a number of studies
- 00:34:24where you can't explain the carbohydrate
- 00:34:26effect
- 00:34:28and the only effect you can use is that
- 00:34:29it's a central stimulant that it's a
- 00:34:31drug and I'm very certain that the that
- 00:34:34for example one hour time trial no
- 00:34:38question ingest carbohydrate during the
- 00:34:40race you'll do better I would never
- 00:34:42argue that metabolism doesn't change no
- 00:34:45no measurable
- 00:34:47difference the the the way carbohydrates
- 00:34:50work
- 00:34:52is your experiment you have to set up
- 00:34:54the experiment so the control group The
- 00:34:57Blood GL glucose drops during exercise I
- 00:34:59the placebo group then you'll always
- 00:35:00find an effect of
- 00:35:02carbohydrates if the blood glucose
- 00:35:04doesn't fall you won't find an effect
- 00:35:06that's in a longer event in a short
- 00:35:08event you you'll almost always find an
- 00:35:10effect of carbohydrate but it's now
- 00:35:12metabolically doesn't do anything so
- 00:35:14what is it doing it's acting in the
- 00:35:16brain so I I honestly think carbohydrate
- 00:35:19is a drug and that's why torron cyclist
- 00:35:22use it so much because when you're
- 00:35:24cycling six hours a day you often need a
- 00:35:27stimul and I think that's the I think
- 00:35:29that's the key stimulant that they use
- 00:35:31or and that's why I've got in a sense as
- 00:35:35you've said triathlete friends who are
- 00:35:38high high fat diets but they said
- 00:35:41sometimes in the triathlon I need that
- 00:35:43carb to give me that lift that stimulus
- 00:35:46so I think that's where we've got wrong
- 00:35:49carbohydrate Metabolic Effect is to
- 00:35:51prevent your blood glucose falling
- 00:35:53that's it and that you can only do by
- 00:35:56taking carbs during exercise so that's
- 00:35:58why you have to take a little bit of
- 00:35:59carves during exercise otherwise the
- 00:36:03main effect is on the brain it it makes
- 00:36:05you perform better because you get it a
- 00:36:08lift and that lift can be achieved by
- 00:36:10just often putting the the sugar in the
- 00:36:12carbohydrate in the mouth as well yeah
- 00:36:14we've seen that in some interesting data
- 00:36:16I've seen that you know recently like
- 00:36:17just uh just swishing it around in the
- 00:36:18mouth and even spitting it out can have
- 00:36:20a a similar effect um and that is I mean
- 00:36:23we we're seeing that replicated that
- 00:36:25wasn't just one or two studies I've seen
- 00:36:27that few times and then uh and even with
- 00:36:31if I recall I might I don't want to
- 00:36:32butcher this but it was basically uh
- 00:36:34straight mted extr or something that
- 00:36:36wasn't even sweet if I recall so it
- 00:36:37wasn't even something that was sweet
- 00:36:39where we we could we could hypothesize
- 00:36:41that yes the the taste of something
- 00:36:42sweet might kind of amp you up a little
- 00:36:44bit but even in cases where there were
- 00:36:45carbohydrates that were not sweet um am
- 00:36:48I mistaken or did I I mean I think I
- 00:36:49think that's what I saw that's that's
- 00:36:51right yeah uh where he talks about
- 00:36:54basically just swishing carbohydrates in
- 00:36:55the mouth like having
- 00:36:58right in you know even even like
- 00:36:59potentially malted extran that has no
- 00:37:01sweetness to it right like just like
- 00:37:03swishing it around and mouth rinse and I
- 00:37:04know that's we're seeing more of that
- 00:37:06coming out I know the military's done
- 00:37:07some stuff with that um where just it
- 00:37:10makes us wonder I mean that independent
- 00:37:14above just avoiding hypoglycemia how
- 00:37:17much of
- 00:37:18it is up there well I I I so the best
- 00:37:22answer I can give to you is one of the
- 00:37:25most reliable performance enhancing
- 00:37:27tools anyone can ever have is a pretty
- 00:37:30solid placebo effect okay so if you
- 00:37:33wanted to improve your performance you
- 00:37:34better start believing that whatever
- 00:37:35you're doing works that is the most
- 00:37:37reliable way to improve performance
- 00:37:40every study has pretty much reliably
- 00:37:42showed this right and so um if you you
- 00:37:45say hey how much of this is in your head
- 00:37:47there's no doubt a huge component this
- 00:37:49is in in people's heads um that will
- 00:37:52always be a factor uh isolating that you
- 00:37:54almost have to you know cut the brain
- 00:37:55stem and and and you know is an
- 00:37:58impossible thing right um and so that's
- 00:38:00why we in a lot of studies we try to
- 00:38:01control as much as we can so in this
- 00:38:03both these studies we did um volume
- 00:38:06taste uh you know sweetness matched
- 00:38:09based uh com comparatives right so we
- 00:38:11can try to
- 00:38:14um analogously control as much of this
- 00:38:17as we can this is also why in these
- 00:38:18studies we try to do everything we can
- 00:38:20to control calories physical activity uh
- 00:38:22uh when we can body composition and you
- 00:38:25know because those are such powerful
- 00:38:28stimulus Al to the point where you bring
- 00:38:29up the idea that you just swish your
- 00:38:31mouth with carbohydrates without
- 00:38:32actually consuming them and per it
- 00:38:34causes performance enhancing effect so
- 00:38:37yeah I mean you do everything you can in
- 00:38:39science to really isolate out factors
- 00:38:42and not always can you do that but as
- 00:38:45much as you can and and actually in both
- 00:38:47these studies that we did this was
- 00:38:49actually a crossover design and so what
- 00:38:50that means is that we have the same
- 00:38:52athlete doing both diets so it wasn't
- 00:38:55like we did parallel groups we actually
- 00:38:57ask these individuals to in the first
- 00:38:59study engage in a 10-week journey with
- 00:39:02us right four weeks on one diet cross
- 00:39:05over four weeks on the other diet and in
- 00:39:06this case six weeks and then switch over
- 00:39:09to the other diet and so they're really
- 00:39:11on this for for the Long Haul but what
- 00:39:13that allows you to do you're isolating
- 00:39:15out you're eliminating the genetic
- 00:39:17factors the environmental factors except
- 00:39:20for food obviously that was changed but
- 00:39:22their you know their house environment
- 00:39:23their sleep environment all that is
- 00:39:25you're able to control that when you do
- 00:39:26these crossover designs so we did
- 00:39:28everything we could to really try to
- 00:39:29answer this question as well as we could
- 00:39:31is what is the macronutrient specific
- 00:39:34effect uh in these different performance
- 00:39:36context and it does appear that at least
- 00:39:37prevailing take-home from both of these
- 00:39:39studies is that as long as you adhere to
- 00:39:41a diet long enough you appear to have
- 00:39:44equivalent levels of performance that
- 00:39:46one diet doesn't predominate over the
- 00:39:48other are so it gives you choice and the
- 00:39:51other end of this the other take home is
- 00:39:52that um that we know that there are
- 00:39:55multiple key determinant of performance
- 00:39:58but it appears that we were able to
- 00:39:59isolate out and really hone in on the
- 00:40:00idea that exercise induced hypoglycemia
- 00:40:03while we're not the first to ever
- 00:40:05demonstrate that matters I mean that was
- 00:40:06demonstrated in 1921 to matter what
- 00:40:08we're illustrating is that in low
- 00:40:09glycogen environments uh and very
- 00:40:12minimal levels of of carbohydrates that
- 00:40:14this this can have a meaningful
- 00:40:16performance impact by completely being
- 00:40:18in alignment with elimination of
- 00:40:20exercise induced hypoglycemia and so
- 00:40:22this does open a lot of questions you
- 00:40:24know there will absolutely be people who
- 00:40:27view the studies differently and have
- 00:40:28different interpretations and so I'm
- 00:40:30really excited to to to have uh
- 00:40:32everyone's feedback on this and really
- 00:40:34start taking that feedback in advancing
- 00:40:36our understanding of science even
- 00:40:37further we link to the study too because
- 00:40:39I mean in just FYI I mean to get you
- 00:40:41know good eyeballs on a study helps
- 00:40:43helps get the study in front of more
- 00:40:44people because there's algorithmically
- 00:40:46based too even on putet so I'll link out
- 00:40:47to the study so that everyone can check
- 00:40:49that out um it was interesting when I
- 00:40:52talking with uh Andy Galpin a couple of
- 00:40:54months ago he actually um kind of
- 00:40:57acknowledged even what you're talking
- 00:40:59about before this study even come out
- 00:41:01because he was he said and I haven't CLI
- 00:41:03with it basically he's like you know
- 00:41:05there's not a whole lot of a difference
- 00:41:06in performance between low carb and high
- 00:41:08carb he's like what we did notice is
- 00:41:09like a lot of times when people would
- 00:41:10selectively go on a low carb they would
- 00:41:12end up um inadvertently reducing their
- 00:41:14calories MH and he said what we did
- 00:41:16notice was that there was a performance
- 00:41:18decline when their calories were lower
- 00:41:20yeah and he's like so he's like that's
- 00:41:22just kind of what inadvertently was
- 00:41:23happening and so he's like I pretty much
- 00:41:26convinced that like if you calories are
- 00:41:27high enough like you're going to be fine
- 00:41:28it's like most people when they like get
- 00:41:30rid of an entire macronutrient they
- 00:41:32don't realize they're also cutting the
- 00:41:33calories down too and that's the one
- 00:41:34thing again I go back anecdotally but
- 00:41:37like that's what I noticed too is that I
- 00:41:40on a lower carb diet my satiety is so
- 00:41:43high I end up F getting to the end of
- 00:41:45the day and being like like I really
- 00:41:46didn't even eat that much yeah then I
- 00:41:48will see a performance decline when I
- 00:41:50have carbohydrates and as again I
- 00:41:52referenc all these people I've interview
- 00:41:53but Dr Mike is Rell he said something
- 00:41:54things was so powerful he's like he's
- 00:41:56like carbohydrates are great for
- 00:41:58inducing appetite are they good for
- 00:42:00building muscle maybe not necessarily
- 00:42:01directly in fact there is that ribosomal
- 00:42:03paper that just came out that just
- 00:42:04basically demonstrated that like it
- 00:42:06doesn't really do anything additional
- 00:42:07for muscle growth but he was just like
- 00:42:08they are a great appetite stimulant so
- 00:42:10he's like if you want to eat more and
- 00:42:11you want to put on more muscle he's like
- 00:42:13you know calories being fairly high on
- 00:42:15the hierarchy of building muscle he's
- 00:42:16like increase your carbohydrate content
- 00:42:18I'm like that that is a logical way to
- 00:42:20put that you know because yes when I eat
- 00:42:22when I eat carbohydrates I tend to just
- 00:42:23my calories overall are higher yeah all
- 00:42:26that being said
- 00:42:28I have a question I know I keep bringing
- 00:42:29this stuff back to some of my anecdotal
- 00:42:31stuff but I think yeah I might be
- 00:42:33mistaken but I think that's why people
- 00:42:34like this General is because I I
- 00:42:35experiment on stuff myself and then I I
- 00:42:37talk to The Experts about it I've done a
- 00:42:39lot of Fairly extreme events um usually
- 00:42:42just self-inflicted somewhat masochistic
- 00:42:45weird things um you know for example
- 00:42:48well I don't even want to my own horn so
- 00:42:49I'm not going to go there but long
- 00:42:50endurance events that are also extreme
- 00:42:53they're not like zone two like I'm
- 00:42:55talking like we're getting into zone
- 00:42:56four possibly even five
- 00:42:57major altitude
- 00:42:59changes I don't feel good when I have
- 00:43:01carbohydrates when I do it so I don't
- 00:43:03I've attempted doing these things fasted
- 00:43:04but I do reach a point where I'm like
- 00:43:06okay after you know 8,000 feet of
- 00:43:07vertical gain like fasted it's not
- 00:43:09working too well start to cramp or
- 00:43:11something um so I've experimented just
- 00:43:13being like okay have a Chomp stick or an
- 00:43:15epic bar or something even like crazy
- 00:43:17lean protein even chicken breast brings
- 00:43:20me right back to Earth and I get
- 00:43:23performance Improvement and I'm right
- 00:43:25back and that's with zero carbohydrate
- 00:43:26intake and very minimal if any fat
- 00:43:30intake is this in my head or is there
- 00:43:32anything to reinforce this I haven't
- 00:43:34seen a lot of like protein intra workout
- 00:43:36protein studies well so two things one
- 00:43:40is uh and knowing some of the types of
- 00:43:43climbs you're you've done and have
- 00:43:45shared before you know these are
- 00:43:47extremely long duration right and you're
- 00:43:49also fasted versus having some calories
- 00:43:51so the first thing people might say is
- 00:43:52well you're having calories okay so
- 00:43:54that's helping you by giving you some
- 00:43:55caloric
- 00:43:57needs during the exercise bout that's
- 00:43:59the first thing most people are going to
- 00:44:00focus on especially in the ex Community
- 00:44:03that's why but there's also something
- 00:44:04else we talked about exercise induce
- 00:44:06hypoglycemia we we did a study that
- 00:44:08seemed to uh demonstrate as well as
- 00:44:11prior work that that's an important
- 00:44:12terine of performance and so we know
- 00:44:15that protein in of itself has its own
- 00:44:17glycemic response it is obviously much
- 00:44:18lower okay but you can look at multiple
- 00:44:21data going back to Coler in 19 81 and
- 00:44:241983 where they show these acute
- 00:44:27protein carbohydrate and responses to
- 00:44:30food and protein does have a glycemic
- 00:44:33response uh so what so it is possible
- 00:44:36that you might have been having you know
- 00:44:39uh early hypoglycemia while you're
- 00:44:41fasting on indor low carb or high carb
- 00:44:43doesn't really matter um at least our
- 00:44:45data says that it shouldn't matter and
- 00:44:48that you had protein during that and
- 00:44:50that should maybe help support you know
- 00:44:52some elevations of glycemia so maybe
- 00:44:54that's another factor that was playing a
- 00:44:55role here and you feeling uh better or
- 00:44:58or having the energy or you know
- 00:45:00attenuating the decline you were feeling
- 00:45:03uh it's actually a well-known strategy
- 00:45:05in the context of type 1 diabetes to
- 00:45:07have more normal and prolonged glycemic
- 00:45:10control because carbohydrates had this
- 00:45:12this potent and Rapid impact on glycemia
- 00:45:15in fact the the peak endogenous car
- 00:45:18insulin response to carbohydrates at
- 00:45:20least let's say you say 50 grams of
- 00:45:21potatoes that's going to be at the 30-
- 00:45:23minute Mark the peak um whereas protein
- 00:45:26it actually Pro it the peak's much lower
- 00:45:28about 2.5 fold lower and it also is
- 00:45:31prolonged and it's lower the peak
- 00:45:34happens later and it stays higher for
- 00:45:36longer so in theory when you're doing
- 00:45:37something such long duration and let's
- 00:45:39say that maybe exercise induc
- 00:45:41hypoglycemia was a factor protein may be
- 00:45:44a ideal strategy in your case uh to
- 00:45:47maybe mitigate some of that more so than
- 00:45:49just having a huge BS of carbohydrates
- 00:45:52uh would although carbohydrates clearly
- 00:45:53would increase your blood sugar level no
- 00:45:54doubt about that but maybe in this case
- 00:45:57um this helped in some way with that
- 00:45:59well you and you being type 1 diabetic
- 00:46:01maybe you can answer this this is
- 00:46:03interesting so I did one event it's
- 00:46:05called um Cactus to clouds it starts at
- 00:46:07the floor of Palm Spring so you're
- 00:46:08starting at sea level and you're going
- 00:46:09up to 11,000 feet and you're knocking
- 00:46:11this and then down and you're knocking
- 00:46:12this out in in a day so it's a lot of
- 00:46:14vertical gain so 11,000 ft of vertical
- 00:46:16gain uh no water on the trails you're
- 00:46:19packing all your water so you're you
- 00:46:20know carrying carrying 30 lbs at
- 00:46:23least um my I attempted to do it fasted
- 00:46:26I like I want to do this whole thing
- 00:46:27fasted granted I'm at that time about
- 00:46:30probably 5 and a half% body fat so not a
- 00:46:33lot to pull from anyway and I knew it
- 00:46:34was curious you know um got up to 8,000
- 00:46:38ft and you know intermediate started
- 00:46:41started cramping body basically started
- 00:46:43shutting down right it like no you're
- 00:46:44not doing this like okay I need to eat
- 00:46:47so I hit the panic button and I had a
- 00:46:50bunch of jelly
- 00:46:52beans not only sticks my stomach but
- 00:46:55chills like no weather I feel like I had
- 00:46:57the flu I mean I Goosebumps like it was
- 00:46:59scary so interesting yeah I didn't
- 00:47:02wasn't able to test my blood sugar but
- 00:47:03I'm assuming that I don't I don't know
- 00:47:06did I go Skyhigh or did I have some
- 00:47:08weird insulin response where I crashed
- 00:47:10even worse after that um but I mean that
- 00:47:13was like okay Thomas when you hit the P
- 00:47:15that was my lesson learning there that
- 00:47:17like no next time protein this out
- 00:47:20instead of because that just did not
- 00:47:22respond so just out of curiosity any
- 00:47:24idea what may have happened in that case
- 00:47:27the chills that chills that's that's an
- 00:47:30interesting thing I don't have an answer
- 00:47:31for the chills although I actually think
- 00:47:33it's to back up for a moment and
- 00:47:35actually speak about um your your you
- 00:47:39started to cramp that's an interesting
- 00:47:41point because when I was talking about
- 00:47:43the 30 minute time point with
- 00:47:45carbohydrates and then proteins more
- 00:47:47prolonged they both come with an insulin
- 00:47:48response too although protein's clearly
- 00:47:50much lower again this is around 2.5
- 00:47:53times lower only 40% of the actual total
- 00:47:55insulin requirements for a gram per gram
- 00:47:58match and they're calorie match because
- 00:47:59they're both for K Cal per gram and
- 00:48:02obviously when you have insulin you're
- 00:48:04going to shuttle in more water right so
- 00:48:07you might have been reaching a point uh
- 00:48:09just pure speculation here where you are
- 00:48:11were becoming uh partially dehydrated
- 00:48:13and maybe having a little bit of insulin
- 00:48:14on board uh because it sound like you
- 00:48:16packed a decent amount of water and
- 00:48:18having that simultaneously could could
- 00:48:20help shuttle and and compensate or or
- 00:48:23attenuate maybe is a better way of
- 00:48:24saying it some of the what appear to be
- 00:48:26dehydration if you're facilitating
- 00:48:28cramps I don't think and to a certain
- 00:48:30end to just to jump in there with that
- 00:48:32you know and I'm very very particular
- 00:48:34about electrolyte balancing and whatnot
- 00:48:36and you know like knowing when I'm
- 00:48:37cramping and when you know potassium
- 00:48:39based versus a sodium based and like I'm
- 00:48:41pretty good at that um and it seemed to
- 00:48:43make no difference which was what was
- 00:48:45interesting to me but what's interesting
- 00:48:46about that is look at Gatorade Gatorade
- 00:48:49is one of the most wellestablished best
- 00:48:52hydration tools there are it's been
- 00:48:54around for forever but it has a ton of
- 00:48:56carbohydrates it so a lot of how people
- 00:48:59uh hydrate and balance electrolytes is
- 00:49:01largely based on the theory that it's on
- 00:49:04the backdrop of a very glycemic a lot of
- 00:49:07carbohydrates along with it because
- 00:49:09that's also helping shuttle in some of
- 00:49:11the water as well and so when you're in
- 00:49:13a context where you're having a huge
- 00:49:16deficit in carbohydrates the rules I
- 00:49:20suspect are changing here and and how
- 00:49:22those minerals are going to be absorbed
- 00:49:24because if you don't have insulin you
- 00:49:26certainly would not not bring in as much
- 00:49:27water right into these tissues and so
- 00:49:30that absolutely would affect um you know
- 00:49:33osmolarity or or or or mineral uh load
- 00:49:36and we know that even with a ketogenic
- 00:49:38diet one of the first things that
- 00:49:39happens when you lower carbohydrates
- 00:49:40within the diet is that has a uh ntic
- 00:49:42response you you release a lot of sodium
- 00:49:44you lose a lot of water weight so um
- 00:49:46I've actually experienced that aot a
- 00:49:48number of times myself where if I wake
- 00:49:50up and I just have coffee and I ride it
- 00:49:52out for a long period of time I don't
- 00:49:53have a whole lot of food I I can
- 00:49:55literally physically see myself
- 00:49:59becoming uh I want say dehydrated is
- 00:50:01maybe not the term but you can start
- 00:50:03seeing the signs of dehydration you and
- 00:50:05I are like what seven hours into hanging
- 00:50:07out together we've trained facd we both
- 00:50:09haven't consumed anything except for
- 00:50:10when you went hypoglycemic and you had
- 00:50:11some Smarties and I could noticeably see
- 00:50:15when I went in the bathroom I could
- 00:50:16noticeably see my face looks your face
- 00:50:18looks leaner like dropped the water as
- 00:50:20the day goes on it's noticeable it
- 00:50:22really is noticeable like you just start
- 00:50:24the day and you just like don't like
- 00:50:25there is and I've peed and barely
- 00:50:26consumed much water today so I'm like
- 00:50:28something's happening and I can actually
- 00:50:30attest to this effect as well and I'm
- 00:50:32sure you're the case when you go these
- 00:50:33very prolong periods of fast and and
- 00:50:35just in my scenario if I have any type
- 00:50:37of food okay after that period of time
- 00:50:40my the visual change that occurs is so
- 00:50:43apparent you know the vascular it's it's
- 00:50:45night and day so um there's clearly an
- 00:50:48impact and I noticed that if I were to
- 00:50:49have food after a very prolonged period
- 00:50:52of fast I have to wait because the
- 00:50:54instant clinex in type 1 diabetes is
- 00:50:56much slower
- 00:50:57and so what I find is that you know my
- 00:50:59timing might be different than someone
- 00:51:00else um because of this but if I have
- 00:51:03that food and I'm I'm looking like two
- 00:51:04hours post okay because a lot of the
- 00:51:06insulin response it's full insulin
- 00:51:08response even the fastest acting insulin
- 00:51:09type one takes about two hours to have
- 00:51:11its full effect um that after that point
- 00:51:15if I'm working out without any food
- 00:51:16let's say I didn't need food before and
- 00:51:18then all of a sudden I introduce any
- 00:51:19food you could be just protein or carbs
- 00:51:22um any form of that that I will sweat so
- 00:51:25much more um afterwards and I don't see
- 00:51:28that with if I fast the whole period of
- 00:51:30time and don't have the food despite
- 00:51:31having the same amount of water so um
- 00:51:34I've always attributed this just
- 00:51:36speculatively I me I'm not necessarily
- 00:51:37saying this paper showed this exact
- 00:51:39thing and the patient with type one
- 00:51:40diabetes I'm not saying that here but
- 00:51:42just my personal anecdotal experience is
- 00:51:44that I definitely hold more water weight
- 00:51:46and of course that can certainly
- 00:51:48translate to things like an aoba
- 00:51:50performance you know if the tissue is
- 00:51:52Fuller and and larger even if it's just
- 00:51:55water um that can have substantial
- 00:51:57difference in leverage of those those
- 00:51:59muscles to to produce force and other
- 00:52:01things so either way um yeah I actually
- 00:52:04have very simil experiences to you in
- 00:52:06this in this case yeah yeah it's uh and
- 00:52:08I will you know I know wrap up here but
- 00:52:10I will say and hopefully people get some
- 00:52:11value out of this I will never ever do a
- 00:52:14long endurance event without having
- 00:52:17torine on board now torine torine has
- 00:52:20been it has saved my so many times if I
- 00:52:24start to feel I take it sort of
- 00:52:26prophylactically yeah um I mean the the
- 00:52:29time to exhaustion like data on it is
- 00:52:31strong anyway like uh you know 3 to six
- 00:52:33gram of torine um and I'll just pop
- 00:52:36three to six grams every 90 minutes or
- 00:52:38so during that and it's no cramping same
- 00:52:41kind of thing's the same I can stay
- 00:52:42fasted I don't totally know the
- 00:52:44mechanisms behind the cramping piece um
- 00:52:47you know massive massive antioxidant
- 00:52:50effect I mean you've seen I don't know
- 00:52:51if you've seen the literature basically
- 00:52:52when they um cross-sectional area and
- 00:52:55biopsy when they they take um athletes
- 00:52:58that are training to exhaustion like
- 00:52:59endogenous touring levels are very
- 00:53:02concentrated and high at the muscle
- 00:53:03level meaning that there's something
- 00:53:05that's going on there right yeah um so
- 00:53:08I've toyed around with it and yeah three
- 00:53:09to six I mean it's it's Game Changer but
- 00:53:11who knows maybe it's in my head too but
- 00:53:12it's just like that is the one thing
- 00:53:14that's like wow okay I won't do a long
- 00:53:16endurance event without it interesting I
- 00:53:19I do know there's plenty of data on
- 00:53:20touring you know co- administer with
- 00:53:22things like caffeine to that helps um in
- 00:53:25the Contex of exercise performance are
- 00:53:28actually vascular cardiovascular um
- 00:53:30measures and so it's interesting to hear
- 00:53:32your experience I've never taken touring
- 00:53:34by itself try who knows I mean it's
- 00:53:37going to work automatically because I
- 00:53:38said it worked but it's it's it's pretty
- 00:53:41wild so anyway man where can everyone
- 00:53:43find you uh they can find me I stay
- 00:53:45pretty active on Twitter I try to stay
- 00:53:47engaged and and and share things and and
- 00:53:50you know communicate with the scientific
- 00:53:51community at ack so a TN i k on Twitter
- 00:53:55or X however you want to refer to it I
- 00:53:57have an Instagram Andre cudnik PhD and I
- 00:54:00also have a website where I try to put
- 00:54:01out as much free information as I
- 00:54:03possibly can for people who are trying
- 00:54:05to understand metabolism um maybe they
- 00:54:07have type 1 diabetes like I do and want
- 00:54:08to understand more of that Journey uh at
- 00:54:10Andrew kick.com right on my man thanks
- 00:54:12brother all right
- Low-carb diet
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