00:00:23
Fourth Question: What is
the right relationship to money?
00:00:33
If you haven’t any,
you have no relationship!
00:00:40
Like the speaker,
it is very simple!
00:00:49
But to be serious,
00:00:53
what is right relationship
to money?
00:01:00
Why has money
become so important?
00:01:07
Just let’s enquire into it.
00:01:10
We are not the Delphic Oracle,
or laying down the law,
00:01:15
or telling you
what you should think or do,
00:01:18
but we are trying together
to understand the problems of life,
00:01:24
which are very complex,
00:01:27
which need deep examination,
00:01:30
impersonally, objectively,
sanely.
00:01:34
So, this is one of the problems,
money.
00:01:41
Why has money
become so important?
00:01:46
Is it because
we have become worldly?
00:01:53
‘Worldly’, I’m using in the sense,
00:01:59
attached to the things
that thought has put together.
00:02:06
That’s the first question
I am asking.
00:02:09
It is a complex question,
we’ll go into it.
00:02:14
Is it because
money gives us freedom?
00:02:22
You can travel,
00:02:25
if you have lots of money,
you can become powerful,
00:02:30
become Lord this and that.
00:02:34
If you have money,
you have a status, you’re respected,
00:02:40
you are looked up to.
00:02:43
This is happening.
00:02:46
If you have money,
you can do almost anything
00:02:54
– go against all the laws.
00:03:00
You see this every day.
00:03:03
Money isn’t supposed to be
00:03:06
transferred from one country
to another
00:03:09
but if you are wealthy,
00:03:12
you have a secret account
in Switzerland
00:03:17
– you know all this –
00:03:20
or transfer great wealth
to America and so on.
00:03:26
And if you have money,
you can enjoy yourself.
00:03:37
Money has become extraordinarily
valuable, in all those senses.
00:03:49
And without money,
you can’t do much, either.
00:03:55
If you want some clothes and so on,
you must have some money.
00:04:00
But the question is, really,
why has money in our life,
00:04:06
apart from buying necessary things
00:04:10
or having something
which is pleasant,
00:04:16
a nice picture, or a nice vase,
00:04:22
or some beautiful ornament,
00:04:25
apart from all that
00:04:26
– or a beautiful garden,
if you are lucky –
00:04:32
apart from that,
00:04:36
why do we lay such emphasis
on money?
00:04:54
You answer it, please.
00:05:03
I do not know if you realise
00:05:09
what religions have become,
organised religions, vast wealth,
00:05:16
they are really business
organisations in the name of God.
00:05:23
This vast wealth of the gurus,
incredible wealth,
00:05:30
which all of us – or some of us
have given to these gentlemen.
00:05:40
And so, money has become important.
00:05:47
When you go to the temples
and so on,
00:05:50
there is always money being asked.
00:06:01
Are we so occupied with money?
00:06:06
Naturally,
the poor man who has no money
00:06:10
is thinking about it.
00:06:16
But those of us
who have a little money,
00:06:21
are we occupied with it?
00:06:26
Is our main concern
or occupation money?
00:06:34
That awakens another question,
00:06:40
why are our minds
perpetually occupied?
00:06:49
– occupied with something
or other.
00:06:56
When you are talking
about meditation,
00:06:58
then you are occupied with it
00:07:02
– God – you follow?
00:07:04
Everyone, from the housewife
00:07:07
to the highest
religious authorities,
00:07:11
is occupied
00:07:15
– why?
00:07:19
You understand my question?
00:07:21
This is not an irrelevant question,
it is relevant
00:07:25
because our occupation with money
or with sex, with this or with that,
00:07:33
indicates the state
of our own minds, our own hearts.
00:07:40
To be occupied with something.
00:07:48
Does it mean
that this occupation
00:07:56
with business, with money,
with sex, with God,
00:07:59
with the guru, with the politician
and so on, so on,
00:08:04
keeps our brain full?
You understand my question?
00:08:14
Is it that we are afraid
not to be occupied?
00:08:23
Please, look at it.
00:08:26
Look at ourselves, which is,
00:08:31
am I occupied
from morning till night
00:08:37
and when I go to sleep,
the brain is also occupied,
00:08:43
with dreams,
with all kinds of sensations.
00:08:48
So, there is never a moment
when the brain is not occupied.
00:08:54
Is that so?
00:09:00
When the brain is so occupied,
there is no space
00:09:07
– you understand? –
00:09:10
and so the brain becomes
more and more shallow.
00:09:18
You can see this happening.
00:09:24
Is it because we are frightened
of not being occupied,
00:09:33
therefore, having no space,
00:09:37
the brain having no rest at all,
00:09:42
therefore, it wears itself out.
Right?
00:09:47
The wearing itself out
is a part of senility.
00:09:55
Right?
00:10:00
So, is there a possibility
of not being occupied?
00:10:10
Merely to look, to observe,
not be occupied with observation.
00:10:20
Just to look, to observe
so that the brain has a rest,
00:10:30
not to record
00:10:33
because our brain is
all the time recording.
00:10:36
I don’t know
if this interests you.
00:10:44
Then your brain becomes
extraordinarily alive, pliable.
00:10:57
Have you ever observed
without a single thought?
00:11:09
to observe a tree,
00:11:13
to observe the light
on a sheet of water,
00:11:21
to observe a woman or a man,
00:11:24
without all the consequences
of that observation, the sensations,
00:11:37
so that your mind is
really free from occupation.
00:11:45
How can a brain that’s occupied
ever observe?
00:11:53
You understand my question?
00:11:57
How can a brain
00:12:01
that is always occupied
with something casual,
00:12:08
daydreaming,
with the kitchen or with God,
00:12:11
all occupations are the same,
00:12:16
there are not superior occupations
or inferior occupations,
00:12:20
we are talking about occupation,
per se.
00:12:25
Such a mind
00:12:31
is really the most
bourgeois mind in the world,
00:12:35
including the Communists.
00:12:47
Is chattering
part of this occupation?
00:12:56
– talking, talking, talking,
endlessly.
00:13:03
Now, are we aware
of this occupation,
00:13:07
and experimenting with ourselves
to see if it stops?
00:13:14
Then to find out
00:13:17
whether there is fear
and pursue that fear – you follow?
00:13:22
Go to the very end of it
and end it,
00:13:30
as we’ve talked about it
at previous talks.
00:13:34
Then see what happens to this brain
which has space,
00:13:40
which has quietness,
which is not occupied.
00:13:49
If you say, ‘How am I to do it?
00:13:53
Tell me the steps, the method,
00:13:58
how not to be occupied’,
00:14:01
those steps, those methods
become your occupation,
00:14:05
you are back in the cycle.
00:14:10
But if you see
the consequences of occupation,
00:14:16
and see the fact of it,
00:14:19
you move away from it.
00:14:23
So, if one is occupied with money,
why?
00:14:29
Either you are poor,
00:14:31
which is natural,
then you have to be concerned,
00:14:35
but even if you’re poor
00:14:37
to be occupied eternally
from morning till night,
00:14:43
and the man who is very rich
is also terribly occupied,
00:14:49
how to keep the money, increase it
– you know the whole business.
00:14:54
The real question is, can the mind
be free from all occupation?
00:15:08
If I may repeat some incident,
00:15:12
we were in the Himalayas once,
00:15:14
far away from all noise,
in a cottage,
00:15:20
and a group of sannyasis came
rushing into the cottage
00:15:28
to tell me something.
00:15:29
They knew the person
who was occupying it.
00:15:33
They came to see me
00:15:35
and they said,
‘We have just come from a man
00:15:38
who is far away in the hills,
who is full of knowledge.
00:15:47
We have just come and
we are filled with that knowledge’.
00:15:52
We said ‘What is that knowledge?’
And we went into it.
00:15:57
At the end of it, we discovered
00:16:00
the solitary person
living in the Himalayas
00:16:03
was really not solitary at all.
00:16:06
He has carried
all the world’s knowledge up there
00:16:14
and so he’s never alone,
never quiet.
00:16:18
He’s full of that knowledge
and can therefore perhaps
00:16:23
can never experience
something totally original.
00:16:29
A mind which is occupied can
never experience something original.
00:16:37
It’s only the mind that’s free,
if I can use the word, empty.
00:16:44
We were talking with a scientist,
some days ago.
00:16:52
We were saying that
emptiness is very important in life,
00:16:58
not vacuum,
not being just vague and daydreaming
00:17:04
but really a mind
that is not occupied
00:17:08
has space and is totally empty.
00:17:13
We were saying
that such a mind is full of energy.
00:17:21
The scientist agreed.
00:17:23
He said ‘Where there is emptiness,
it’s not empty,
00:17:28
that very emptiness is energy’.
00:17:33
I’m telling you something.
00:17:35
So, let us think about it,
you know, look at it.
