Final Warning Limits to Growth

00:42:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz9wjJjmkmc

الملخص

TLDRThe video delves into the historical and ongoing discourse about the limits to global growth, initiated by researchers, including the Club of Rome's team, 40 years ago. With foundational funding from the Volkswagen Foundation, the study warned against the unsustainable expansion of human activity on a finite planet, urging a systemic approach to managing resources equitably. Dr. Dennis Meadows and other scientists later expanded this discussion to emphasize the interconnectedness of global crises, advocating for resilience and sustainable practices as integral to future survival. Despite early criticism, particularly from economists, for being alarmist, their work influenced early environmental conferences and continues to hold relevance. The video highlights how former team members engage with modern challenges of climate change, capitalism, and short-termism in politics, proposing shifts toward interconnected, resilient solutions while recognizing the limits of current socio-economic systems. It ends by reflecting on personal and global transformations needed for sustainable futures.

الوجبات الجاهزة

  • 🌍 Scientists have warned about the limits of growth on a finite planet for decades.
  • 📚 The Club of Rome's report highlights the critical need for sustainable practices.
  • 🔄 System dynamics models were used to analyze the complexities of global systems.
  • 👥 Public and policy reaction to the study was mixed, ranging from support to criticism.
  • ⏳ Authors emphasize resilience over unsustainable constant growth.
  • 🌳 The 1970s optimism faded, giving rise to new strategies against environmental crises.
  • 🏭 Criticism focused on fear of economic limits and accusations of pessimism.
  • 💡 Sustainable change requires collective and immediate action.
  • 🗳️ Democracy and short-term interests in politics hinder long-term solutions.
  • 🧭 Lessons from 40 years ago remain critical to addressing today's environmental challenges.

الجدول الزمني

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    The video explores the history of the Club of Rome and its famous Limits to Growth report, highlighting the long-standing concerns about the unsustainable path of global growth. Initiated by Dr. Dennis Meadows and supported by the Volkswagen Foundation, the study involved 17 scientists from MIT who aimed to address the question of how global society can organize itself to provide a just and equitable living for its people. Forty years later, the warning about limitations of growth on a finite planet is still valid as multiple, interconnected crises emerge as symptoms of a broader global crisis.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    The video introduces the Club of Rome, a think tank combining scientists, educators, and businessmen, which contributed to the Limits to Growth report. Despite initial financial challenges due to a lack of methodology for their ambitious project, MIT's Jay Forrester, a pioneer of system dynamics, proposed using system dynamics modeling to understand complex systems. This modeling helped simulate possible futures and unravel the interconnectedness of global issues which otherwise seemed independent in nature.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Jay Forrester's system dynamics modeling commenced with a simple flowchart developed during a flight and expanded into a global model coded at MIT. The use of simulations highlighted the counterintuitive nature of complex systems compared to simpler systems like driving a car. Forrester's efforts laid the groundwork for further research, preparing scientists like Dennis Meadows and Donella Meadows to expand and deliver concrete models that reflect the interactions between population, industrial growth, and finite natural resources.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    The Limits to Growth project team, averaging 26.5 years in age, was formed rapidly at MIT and financed by the Volkswagen Foundation. Despite criticism, the multidisciplinary team, including Donella Meadows, who played a significant role in its writing, sought to address challenges to sustain future societies. The young researchers were motivated by optimism, believing their findings could guide humanity towards solving systemic global crises through gradual systemic changes if people acted to alter growing consumption and population trends.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    In 1972, the team presented twelve scenarios in Limits to Growth, outlining possible outcomes from continued growth, highlighting the unsustainability if current trends were maintained. John Sterman of MIT explains the concept of using system dynamics to visualize the exponential growth of both population and economy on a finite planet, showing that reaching a sustainable equilibrium requires conscious action to mitigate overshoots and collapses in this interconnected global system.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Despite the initially alarming reception and critiques from economists portraying them as doomsday predictors, the message received mixed reactions internationally. While some embraced the call for sustainable practices, others viewed the proposals as unrealistic or ideologically driven. The Limits to Growth initiated a significant debate that resonated through various sectors, including political and economical arenas, emphasized during events such as the 1972 Stockholm conference. Efforts like these were critical in propelling environmental concerns into public discourse.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    Post-publication, the authors faced skepticism and societal resistance but remained committed to promoting sustainable development. Donella Meadows pursued creating sustainable communities and continuously fostered discussions on alternative lifestyles. Although there was a lapse in immediate responsive action to the book's findings, by the 1990s, the authors revisited their work in the context of emerging environmental realities, stressing the same critical resource limitations and ecological boundaries.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:42:30

    Currently, with climate change and sustainability more pressing, the video's narrative revisits contributions and future outlooks from the original authors like Dennis Meadows and Jorgen Randers, advocating for resilience and appropriate policy shifts. The challenges noted include overcoming societal short-termism and effectively implementing systemic change through governmental and individual action. The focus lies in intelligently integrating sustainable practices to ensure a more viable future on this finite planet while reflecting on the potential within systemic structures like capitalism and governance.

اعرض المزيد

الخريطة الذهنية

Mind Map

الأسئلة الشائعة

  • What is the main message of the Club of Rome's study?

    The main message is the risks associated with unchecked physical and economic growth on a finite planet, emphasizing that this growth cannot be sustained.

  • Who funded the initial study on global limits to growth?

    The initial study was funded by the Club of Rome with support from the Volkswagen Foundation.

  • What was the original question posed by Dr. Dennis Meadows 40 years ago?

    The question was how global society can organize itself to provide a just, peaceful, equitable, and decent living for its people.

  • What was the key method used in the limits to growth study?

    The study used system dynamics to model and analyze the interconnections of complex systems.

  • How did the book 'Limits to Growth' impact the public and scientific discussion?

    The book sparked a global controversy, receiving both support and harsh criticism while influencing public policy discussions on sustainable development.

  • What are the authors' current views on the issues they raised 40 years ago?

    They remain concerned about unsustainable growth and its risks but emphasize the need for resilience and collective global action.

  • Why did the authors of 'Limits to Growth' receive criticism?

    They were criticized for challenging the traditional belief in perpetual economic growth and were labeled as doomsayers and overly pessimistic.

  • What does the term 'resilience' signify according to the video?

    Resilience signifies the ability of systems to absorb shocks and maintain essential functions.

  • What role does capitalism play in addressing climate change according to the video?

    Capitalism tends to prioritize profit over societal benefits, and may not effectively address long-term environmental issues unless regulated for societal benefit.

  • How did the original team react to the criticism they faced?

    The team members reacted by either continuing their work in academia, engaging in sustainable community projects, or adjusting their approach to spreading awareness.

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الترجمات
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التمرير التلقائي:
  • 00:00:00
    an tests who have been warning about
  • 00:00:05
    unlimited growth in a finite planet for
  • 00:00:08
    40 years and an insight into their point
  • 00:00:11
    of view today concerning the present
  • 00:00:13
    crisis and the future of the world this
  • 00:00:19
    is the first u.s. presentation of an 18
  • 00:00:21
    month study of global limits to growth
  • 00:00:25
    sponsored by the Club of Rome with
  • 00:00:27
    Volkswagen Foundation funding by an
  • 00:00:30
    international team of 17 scientists at
  • 00:00:33
    the Massachusetts of Institute of
  • 00:00:35
    Technology under the direction of dr.
  • 00:00:37
    Dennis L meadows forty years ago I stood
  • 00:00:42
    up and presented a question how can
  • 00:00:46
    global society organize itself to
  • 00:00:49
    provide a just peaceful equitable decent
  • 00:00:54
    living for its people now after 40 years
  • 00:00:59
    finally the question is starting to be
  • 00:01:03
    considered seriously but I'm
  • 00:01:06
    apprehensive I have to say that all of
  • 00:01:08
    the question is still important the
  • 00:01:10
    answer is different than it was 40 years
  • 00:01:13
    ago 40 years ago it was still
  • 00:01:17
    theoretically possible to slow things
  • 00:01:18
    down and come to an equilibrium now
  • 00:01:22
    that's no longer possible
  • 00:01:52
    today crises are considered to be
  • 00:01:56
    independent of each other and when
  • 00:01:58
    there's some problem a hurricane or a
  • 00:02:00
    financial collapse or chaos in the
  • 00:02:04
    eurozone or bankruptcy in some company
  • 00:02:08
    or whatever people focus on that is so
  • 00:02:12
    somehow the causes of it were inside our
  • 00:02:18
    book and our field generally says no I
  • 00:02:22
    mean the the causes often are far away
  • 00:02:26
    in time and place from the symptoms of
  • 00:02:29
    the problems and indeed my opinion is
  • 00:02:34
    that all of these things are really not
  • 00:02:37
    problems in themselves they're a symptom
  • 00:02:41
    the problem is physical growth in a
  • 00:02:44
    finite planet the problem is that we
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    have taken human population food
  • 00:02:51
    consumption energy use material
  • 00:02:53
    consumption and so forth two levels
  • 00:02:56
    which cannot be sustained looking at
  • 00:03:01
    separate crises as symptoms of a global
  • 00:03:03
    crisis was also the anticipatory vision
  • 00:03:06
    of the man behind the limits to growth
  • 00:03:08
    our leop che the founder of a mysterious
  • 00:03:12
    think tank called the Club of Rome
  • 00:03:17
    Kluber film is a group of scientists
  • 00:03:21
    humanists educators and businessmen who
  • 00:03:26
    is very much concerned about the state
  • 00:03:29
    of the world we cannot say that we have
  • 00:03:32
    economic and ecological and other
  • 00:03:35
    psychological and security problems each
  • 00:03:38
    problem is a multi-faceted problem
  • 00:03:41
    interconnected and each one interconnect
  • 00:03:44
    interacts with the others and that many
  • 00:03:46
    of these interactions are explosive
  • 00:03:56
    purva montaner ailamma Sima Libertad yet
  • 00:04:00
    in order to ensure the greatest freedom
  • 00:04:03
    of thought and action for the Club of
  • 00:04:05
    Rome members p'chai established the Club
  • 00:04:08
    of Rome as a non organization rather
  • 00:04:11
    than an organization I started by
  • 00:04:16
    writing to people whose names had
  • 00:04:18
    appeared in newspapers and I filed
  • 00:04:21
    copies of all those letters in a binder
  • 00:04:23
    which I labeled Club of Rome
  • 00:04:28
    Pichai told me to leave some room on
  • 00:04:31
    that shelf because he expected there
  • 00:04:33
    would be more to fill it soon Costa
  • 00:04:37
    practica see multiply Cara presto
  • 00:04:42
    fetch a was one of the first to realize
  • 00:04:45
    that the new problems humanity was
  • 00:04:46
    facing were global and he was looking
  • 00:04:49
    for a scientific model to understand
  • 00:04:51
    possible futures
  • 00:04:54
    money was needed to start the research
  • 00:04:57
    project but there was a problem at that
  • 00:05:01
    first meeting in Bern being new and
  • 00:05:04
    being an American I thought the best
  • 00:05:07
    thing for me to do was to have nothing
  • 00:05:10
    to say and just to listen and for the
  • 00:05:14
    first time about six o'clock in the
  • 00:05:16
    evening it was stated that the money was
  • 00:05:20
    not available from the Volkswagen
  • 00:05:21
    Foundation because no methodology had
  • 00:05:25
    been settled on for doing the research
  • 00:05:28
    so now suddenly you had a project with
  • 00:05:32
    new methodology and no money which was
  • 00:05:35
    very close to no project Jay Forrester
  • 00:05:39
    from MIT one of the pioneers of the
  • 00:05:42
    modern computer age was also the founder
  • 00:05:44
    of system dynamics the science that
  • 00:05:47
    studies the interconnection between
  • 00:05:48
    complex systems he was probably the only
  • 00:05:52
    person in the world able to give an
  • 00:05:55
    answer to the chaise willingness to
  • 00:05:57
    understand the future and he was in that
  • 00:06:00
    room that day and I told them they could
  • 00:06:03
    come to MIT and learn more about this
  • 00:06:05
    but they would have to come for two
  • 00:06:07
    weeks or not at all because I knew they
  • 00:06:10
    would take two weeks for them to really
  • 00:06:12
    understand and they agreed that they
  • 00:06:17
    would come three weeks from that day so
  • 00:06:19
    it was on the airplane coming back Air
  • 00:06:22
    France I think where I had nine coach
  • 00:06:25
    seats to myself I converted them into an
  • 00:06:28
    office to spread papers around and begin
  • 00:06:31
    to work on a system dynamic simulation
  • 00:06:35
    model
  • 00:06:35
    what they have been talking about the
  • 00:06:40
    problem here is that these systems are
  • 00:06:43
    what we have come to call counter
  • 00:06:45
    intuitive they do not behave the way we
  • 00:06:48
    think they do and there are reasons for
  • 00:06:50
    this the human mind has gathered its
  • 00:06:55
    intuition and its experience in dealing
  • 00:06:57
    with simple systems driving an
  • 00:06:59
    automobile is about the most complex
  • 00:07:01
    system that the human mind thoroughly
  • 00:07:04
    grasps as we come to these more complex
  • 00:07:07
    systems we apply to them the lessons
  • 00:07:11
    that we've learned in simple systems but
  • 00:07:13
    the more complex systems do not behave
  • 00:07:15
    in the same way and it's the structure
  • 00:07:18
    of the entire system that gives it the
  • 00:07:21
    behavior this my friend is my
  • 00:07:29
    recollection of the first couple of
  • 00:07:31
    years that MIT this is MIT this is how
  • 00:07:35
    it looked this is the sunset this from
  • 00:07:38
    our apartment so I came to MIT in
  • 00:07:41
    January 1972 30 physics I discovered in
  • 00:07:46
    two months time that this was not the
  • 00:07:48
    point I happen to hear Forrester give a
  • 00:07:52
    talk I understood simply from listening
  • 00:07:55
    in that this was life I managed to
  • 00:07:57
    transfer into the management school then
  • 00:08:00
    I got a desk in your group you know and
  • 00:08:03
    then basically it came to June meeting
  • 00:08:05
    dig for silica lee gave you the
  • 00:08:08
    responsibility to execute the program or
  • 00:08:10
    how's that done well so on the way back
  • 00:08:13
    from the Bern meeting Forster almost
  • 00:08:16
    literally on a napkin but on some sort
  • 00:08:18
    of paper drew a crude flow diagram for a
  • 00:08:22
    global model and he got home and you
  • 00:08:25
    know in his home computer over the
  • 00:08:27
    weekend programmed a model and had
  • 00:08:31
    some was they were not scaled correctly
  • 00:08:33
    I remember they were about 25 feet long
  • 00:08:35
    but you know typing out typing horses in
  • 00:08:38
    the days of selective typewriters
  • 00:08:40
    affected then executive committee came
  • 00:08:43
    and I remember after about a week I came
  • 00:08:48
    home to Danella one night I said you
  • 00:08:51
    know this is would be an interesting
  • 00:08:52
    project I think I know how to do it so I
  • 00:08:55
    wrote a 2-3 page proposal gave it to the
  • 00:08:58
    Club of Rome people the next day and
  • 00:09:00
    indeed that club decided to take it and
  • 00:09:02
    then I put together the team sixteen
  • 00:09:07
    people five sectors and so forth Jane
  • 00:09:14
    Forester handed over the baton to Denis
  • 00:09:16
    meadows and the average age of the
  • 00:09:18
    international team of researchers
  • 00:09:19
    meadows put together was 26 and a half
  • 00:09:35
    a lot of material from back in those
  • 00:09:40
    days all right there I am as a graduate
  • 00:09:49
    student at MIT there came out a piece of
  • 00:09:54
    paper among all the graduate students in
  • 00:09:57
    that system dynamics Research Group
  • 00:09:59
    saying there is an opportunity here we
  • 00:10:01
    have some funding we have some couple of
  • 00:10:02
    positions to work on this research
  • 00:10:04
    program I ran in Dennis's office as a
  • 00:10:09
    graduate student and said this is
  • 00:10:11
    fascinating I would like to be on that
  • 00:10:12
    team then I said great you were the
  • 00:10:14
    first one in here you get to be on the
  • 00:10:16
    team
  • 00:10:31
    two members of the team nominated by a
  • 00:10:34
    senior member of the Club of Rome came
  • 00:10:37
    from Germany at a milling and Air exam
  • 00:10:43
    the Denison is done Dennis and I were
  • 00:10:46
    welcomed into the inner circle of the
  • 00:10:48
    Club of Rome the whole project was
  • 00:10:51
    financed by the Volkswagen Foundation
  • 00:10:53
    witness teams to allow the team to get
  • 00:10:55
    to work immediately aralia pacce wrote a
  • 00:10:57
    check for over fifty thousand dollars so
  • 00:11:00
    we could buy tables and chairs which
  • 00:11:02
    were set up in an old factory building
  • 00:11:03
    on the MIT campus grounds I typically
  • 00:11:06
    call a lack of an MIT calendar a
  • 00:11:09
    beginning column
  • 00:11:13
    you
  • 00:11:15
    so we were eating sleeping and
  • 00:11:18
    everything in the officer and an inmate
  • 00:11:21
    fun we played frisbee in the office
  • 00:11:36
    our envision vadas McClung over fun it
  • 00:11:40
    was essentially a group of six people
  • 00:11:41
    under the directorship of Denis meadows
  • 00:11:44
    and deputy eros Sun and we mustn't
  • 00:11:48
    forget the really outstanding
  • 00:11:49
    contribution it must be said of Donella
  • 00:11:52
    Meadows vanilla middles Donella Meadows
  • 00:11:57
    was the main author of the limits to
  • 00:12:00
    growth she was not only a scientist but
  • 00:12:03
    also a humanist a brilliant writer and
  • 00:12:06
    the team's link to the green movement
  • 00:12:07
    that was growing at the beginning of the
  • 00:12:10
    1970s I think we're one step one
  • 00:12:16
    contribution to a change which is indeed
  • 00:12:18
    taking place largely among young people
  • 00:12:21
    who are trying many experiments some of
  • 00:12:24
    which may turn out to be very useful in
  • 00:12:26
    an equilibrium society and I think the
  • 00:12:29
    thing that encourages me I work in a
  • 00:12:31
    university with some of these young
  • 00:12:33
    people is that they are discovering with
  • 00:12:36
    the alternate lifestyles that they are
  • 00:12:38
    trying are not sacrifices they're not
  • 00:12:41
    unpleasant and in many ways they're more
  • 00:12:44
    satisfying and their lives are more
  • 00:12:46
    fulfilling than they would have been if
  • 00:12:49
    they followed the pattern which we have
  • 00:12:51
    come to regard as the cultural pattern
  • 00:12:52
    of America
  • 00:12:58
    at that time we were all optimists every
  • 00:13:03
    single one of us believed that the
  • 00:13:06
    research that we were doing in the book
  • 00:13:08
    that we were writing was a prescription
  • 00:13:13
    for optimism because we saw that these
  • 00:13:16
    plant these planetary issues were
  • 00:13:19
    totally solvable totally manageable all
  • 00:13:23
    it took all it would take would be human
  • 00:13:28
    action
  • 00:13:35
    eventually I want to understand
  • 00:13:37
    population and one influence on
  • 00:13:40
    population is deaths
  • 00:13:43
    the limits to growth put together twelve
  • 00:13:46
    possible scenarios of the future varying
  • 00:13:49
    from collapse scenarios to equilibrium
  • 00:13:51
    ones and I've assumed that that's a
  • 00:13:54
    function of food per capita the
  • 00:13:56
    difference between collapse and
  • 00:13:57
    equilibrium came from human choices
  • 00:14:02
    professor John Sterman still teaches the
  • 00:14:05
    content of the book at the MIT today
  • 00:14:08
    what did the limits to growth really say
  • 00:14:11
    so what we have here is a very simple
  • 00:14:14
    qualitative diagram showing the limits
  • 00:14:17
    to growth concepts over here we have
  • 00:14:20
    population which grows exponentially
  • 00:14:23
    unless restrain unless people reduce
  • 00:14:25
    their fertility and here's the growth of
  • 00:14:27
    the economy which also grows
  • 00:14:28
    exponentially all that growth is
  • 00:14:30
    happening in the context of a finite
  • 00:14:33
    planet important parts of the global
  • 00:14:36
    system are basically structured to give
  • 00:14:42
    exponential growth population and
  • 00:14:44
    industrial growth are inherently
  • 00:14:47
    exponential it's not an accident that
  • 00:14:49
    they show this explosive growth pattern
  • 00:14:52
    that's built into the nature of the
  • 00:14:55
    systems when we approach the limits of
  • 00:14:59
    the earth we will not basically move
  • 00:15:03
    towards those limits and then smoothly
  • 00:15:05
    fit in the world population and activity
  • 00:15:09
    under the carrying capacity of the of
  • 00:15:12
    the planet we will because of Decision
  • 00:15:16
    delays shoot through the sustainable
  • 00:15:19
    level and then move into unsustainable
  • 00:15:23
    territory
  • 00:15:24
    from which there is only one way back
  • 00:15:26
    either organized adduction managed
  • 00:15:30
    decline or nature takes over and forces
  • 00:15:33
    us down back to sustainable territory
  • 00:15:40
    obviously if there are a lot of harmful
  • 00:15:43
    side effects of our technologies if
  • 00:15:45
    there are long delays in the response of
  • 00:15:48
    the social and technical system to
  • 00:15:50
    scarcity if the price system if markets
  • 00:15:53
    don't work effectively we're in trouble
  • 00:15:56
    but the real lesson of limits to growth
  • 00:15:58
    is that even if all of those things work
  • 00:16:01
    it still doesn't solve the problem as
  • 00:16:04
    long as everybody wants more the limits
  • 00:16:13
    to growth was a huge success worldwide
  • 00:16:16
    it was translated into more than 30
  • 00:16:19
    languages and sold more than 10 million
  • 00:16:21
    copies and the warning from the book
  • 00:16:24
    soon began to spark huge public
  • 00:16:26
    discussion if you don't have the idea
  • 00:16:31
    that growth is desirable and possible
  • 00:16:33
    you don't have economics and so as soon
  • 00:16:37
    as the book came out all the economists
  • 00:16:39
    were just outraged the first major
  • 00:16:44
    criticism came out just a few weeks
  • 00:16:47
    after the limits to growth it appeared
  • 00:16:49
    in the New York Times Book Review
  • 00:16:51
    a whole page first page and it was
  • 00:16:54
    written by three macro economists we're
  • 00:16:57
    the forerunners of 30 years or 40 years
  • 00:17:01
    of criticism really mystical it's
  • 00:17:02
    continuing to this day you know most my
  • 00:17:04
    classical macroeconomists thinks this is
  • 00:17:07
    a piece of [ __ ] a projection for
  • 00:17:12
    disaster and this is so typical of the
  • 00:17:16
    time here's a here's an article entitled
  • 00:17:19
    starvation specter world's future faith
  • 00:17:25
    or suicide that brings back the feelings
  • 00:17:29
    of that times like guys you're not
  • 00:17:32
    getting our message if we have 30 days
  • 00:17:36
    to say
  • 00:17:37
    of the world would we act before the
  • 00:17:39
    29th now that one actually got the
  • 00:17:44
    message we're dealing with dynamic
  • 00:17:48
    systems with long time constants don't
  • 00:17:50
    try to do it on the 29th day do it on
  • 00:17:54
    the first or second day and don't waste
  • 00:17:56
    the 1st 2nd 3rd and all the way the 26
  • 00:17:58
    days talking about whether or not the
  • 00:18:00
    science says we shed in June 1972 a few
  • 00:18:08
    months after the publication of the
  • 00:18:09
    limits to growth world leaders gathered
  • 00:18:12
    in Stockholm
  • 00:18:13
    for the very first environmental
  • 00:18:14
    conference chaired by the Canadian
  • 00:18:17
    Morris strong who was deeply influenced
  • 00:18:19
    by the books message a compromise
  • 00:18:24
    between the interests of all countries
  • 00:18:26
    was very difficult to find but the
  • 00:18:28
    global concern about the state of the
  • 00:18:30
    planet was marked by the Stockholm
  • 00:18:32
    declaration and if it were to contain
  • 00:18:35
    nothing more than that principle that
  • 00:18:37
    nations must accept responsibility for
  • 00:18:39
    the consequences of their actions on
  • 00:18:41
    others it would be a historic document
  • 00:18:44
    and an extremely important base on which
  • 00:18:46
    to build the limits to growth had a
  • 00:18:51
    strong impact in Germany as well as in
  • 00:18:53
    many other countries
  • 00:18:54
    dividing politicians and public opinion
  • 00:18:58
    in my hidden hide a cup of home after
  • 00:19:01
    all the Club of Rome was awarded the
  • 00:19:03
    Peace Prize of the German book trade for
  • 00:19:05
    the limits to growth the book was on
  • 00:19:09
    Spiegel's bestseller list for several
  • 00:19:11
    years and was also positively received
  • 00:19:13
    in industry I think I gave over 60
  • 00:19:18
    presentations during the first year and
  • 00:19:21
    most of them were to people from
  • 00:19:23
    business and industry we in London Eamon
  • 00:19:27
    revenants yes he warned some tylium
  • 00:19:30
    cleansiness because we claimed there
  • 00:19:32
    were limits to growth that we'd have to
  • 00:19:34
    limit population growth we'd have to
  • 00:19:35
    reduce the consumption of resources and
  • 00:19:37
    to limit the environmental impact
  • 00:19:39
    we were labeled communists advocates of
  • 00:19:41
    planned economy and all sorts of things
  • 00:19:43
    that we certainly are not and never were
  • 00:19:46
    dr. cinema nice in don't varlam given
  • 00:19:49
    offered by feeling we also participated
  • 00:19:52
    in many discussions we sat in a row and
  • 00:19:55
    were bombarded with questions from
  • 00:19:57
    journalists and experts in various
  • 00:19:59
    fields there were plenty of adverse
  • 00:20:02
    positions many unreflective but
  • 00:20:05
    interestingly some actually got a better
  • 00:20:07
    understanding of what we were trying to
  • 00:20:08
    express because a lot of them hadn't
  • 00:20:10
    even read the book or only superficially
  • 00:20:13
    on Jesus and I thought this is total
  • 00:20:16
    disinformation and not a good style for
  • 00:20:18
    political leadership
  • 00:20:30
    imagine being in your twenties and
  • 00:20:32
    finding yourself in the middle of a
  • 00:20:34
    global controversy how did the authors
  • 00:20:39
    react the response they met was
  • 00:20:43
    particularly in the US was really harsh
  • 00:20:46
    and severe calling them Malthusian or
  • 00:20:49
    doomsday prophets and things like that
  • 00:20:52
    and that was a surprise and each of the
  • 00:20:56
    authors dealt with that and the and the
  • 00:21:00
    following controversy that came up
  • 00:21:04
    around the book in different ways when
  • 00:21:10
    we wrote the limits the wrote I thought
  • 00:21:12
    that once we told the world that the
  • 00:21:15
    planet is small and that it's a great
  • 00:21:17
    challenge for Humanity to fit a large
  • 00:21:20
    population and a large economy onto this
  • 00:21:22
    tiny little planet
  • 00:21:23
    I had thought naively that the world
  • 00:21:27
    would listen and say yes you know
  • 00:21:30
    clearly this is good advice and we're
  • 00:21:32
    going to follow this advice it didn't
  • 00:21:36
    take long before I really understood
  • 00:21:39
    that that was not the case and after ten
  • 00:21:43
    years of trying to push the message
  • 00:21:45
    during the 1970s I basically gave up and
  • 00:21:49
    and said that this is too early you know
  • 00:21:52
    we have to wait another 20 years or so
  • 00:21:54
    until the real world problems become
  • 00:21:57
    more acute and more easily absurd by
  • 00:22:00
    most people and then we can start once
  • 00:22:02
    more and try to assist a shift in the
  • 00:22:05
    direction of sustainable development
  • 00:22:11
    and Dana had left MIT started up a
  • 00:22:14
    research program at Dartmouth their
  • 00:22:16
    interest was similar to mine create
  • 00:22:18
    sustainable communities on a small scale
  • 00:22:21
    I essentially followed them went up to
  • 00:22:24
    Dartmouth started teaching and research
  • 00:22:26
    at Dartmouth and after one semester four
  • 00:22:29
    months roughly decided that I had to
  • 00:22:32
    make a right-hand turn my life choice
  • 00:22:42
    bought a small log cabin in the
  • 00:22:46
    foothills of Vermont that had no power
  • 00:22:49
    no telephone ran on kerosene lights
  • 00:22:53
    heated with burning firewood created an
  • 00:22:56
    organic garden started raising animals
  • 00:22:59
    you know on a personal level I'm going
  • 00:23:02
    to do this and see what it takes to live
  • 00:23:04
    in harmony and with a low carbon
  • 00:23:07
    footprint that term wasn't even
  • 00:23:10
    developed by that at that time by the
  • 00:23:12
    way
  • 00:23:12
    but that's what we were talking about
  • 00:23:16
    Donella Meadows reaction was to continue
  • 00:23:19
    teaching and writing columns and essays
  • 00:23:22
    motivating people to envision the future
  • 00:23:26
    I've been working on this vision of a
  • 00:23:28
    sustainable world for a long time I can
  • 00:23:30
    literally see it a sustainable world
  • 00:23:33
    that isn't a sacrifice or a bunch of
  • 00:23:35
    difficult regulations a sustainable
  • 00:23:38
    world that I would love to live in and
  • 00:23:41
    having such a vision alive in me
  • 00:23:44
    prevents me from selling out to
  • 00:23:47
    something less that someone else may be
  • 00:23:50
    offering me such as the vision of
  • 00:23:52
    Perpetual economic growth which is
  • 00:23:54
    pretty much the vision that the whole
  • 00:23:55
    field of economy economics gives us
  • 00:23:58
    growth isn't what I want
  • 00:24:00
    growth has nothing to do with what I
  • 00:24:02
    want and I think the only reason growth
  • 00:24:05
    which is a terribly abstract and when
  • 00:24:07
    you think about it stupid vision of the
  • 00:24:10
    future I think the only reason that can
  • 00:24:13
    be sold so easily in every policy arena
  • 00:24:17
    is that there's nothing there's no
  • 00:24:19
    alternative vision in recent years so
  • 00:24:23
    many claim that we live in a world of
  • 00:24:26
    limits where all nations even those as
  • 00:24:28
    bountiful as our own must learn to live
  • 00:24:30
    with less perhaps you remember a report
  • 00:24:33
    published a few years back called the
  • 00:24:35
    limits to growth that title limits to
  • 00:24:38
    growth said it all why did President
  • 00:24:42
    Reagan attack a little book more than 10
  • 00:24:44
    years after its publication because the
  • 00:24:48
    limits to growth had become the bone of
  • 00:24:50
    contention between Republicans and the
  • 00:24:52
    previous carter administration by the
  • 00:24:56
    end of this century I want our nation to
  • 00:24:58
    derive 20% of all the energy we use from
  • 00:25:02
    the Sun direct solar energy and
  • 00:25:05
    radiation and also renewable forms of
  • 00:25:08
    energy derive more indirectly from the
  • 00:25:10
    Sun this is a bold proposal and it's an
  • 00:25:14
    ambitious goal but it is attainable if
  • 00:25:19
    we have the will to achieve it a short
  • 00:25:21
    termism it really rules the world in the
  • 00:25:24
    sense that most people most politicians
  • 00:25:26
    most businesses you know are more
  • 00:25:29
    interested in the short term interest
  • 00:25:31
    than in doing creating a better world
  • 00:25:33
    for our grandchildren
  • 00:25:39
    they are the living image of the young
  • 00:25:43
    people I have always in mind while in
  • 00:25:46
    work I think that we have prepared for
  • 00:25:48
    them a very ugly world we have to do
  • 00:25:52
    something to correct what we have done
  • 00:25:54
    so far and in some ways surprising it's
  • 00:25:57
    rather incredible that in this day of
  • 00:26:01
    superpowers of multinational
  • 00:26:05
    corporations of demagogues and of mass
  • 00:26:09
    media as a single man with a few
  • 00:26:12
    companions should have any influence to
  • 00:26:17
    the extent that the Club of Rome and
  • 00:26:19
    aralia have had even though their mentor
  • 00:26:27
    or le opha was not there any longer in
  • 00:26:30
    1992 20 years after the publication of
  • 00:26:33
    the limits to growth Dennis and Donella
  • 00:26:36
    Meadows and jörgen Randers decided to
  • 00:26:38
    test their scenarios these are pictures
  • 00:26:41
    of Jurgen and Dennis and Dana mostly
  • 00:26:46
    taken at foundation farm in Plainfield
  • 00:26:49
    New Hampshire and the whole team bill
  • 00:26:52
    came over from Maine for this picture
  • 00:26:54
    the team reassembled again 20 years
  • 00:26:57
    after the limits to growth my role was
  • 00:27:01
    as a researcher digging up numbers on
  • 00:27:05
    world trends so food production
  • 00:27:09
    per-capita food production population
  • 00:27:11
    changes and there was really an open
  • 00:27:15
    question
  • 00:27:15
    bringing the scenarios forward by 20
  • 00:27:20
    years what were our options and through
  • 00:27:24
    that work the title for the new book
  • 00:27:27
    emerged which was beyond the limits
  • 00:27:31
    1992 was also the year of the Rio United
  • 00:27:35
    Nations conference on the environment
  • 00:27:37
    and twenty years after Stockholm the
  • 00:27:40
    limits to growth was still the enemy to
  • 00:27:42
    fight twenty years ago some spoke of the
  • 00:27:46
    limits to growth and today we realize
  • 00:27:49
    that growth is the engine of change and
  • 00:27:52
    the friend of the environment this world
  • 00:27:56
    leaders have gathered 18 more times
  • 00:27:58
    since Rio and decisions are still being
  • 00:28:01
    delayed now I give the floor to European
  • 00:28:05
    Union Thank You mr. president
  • 00:28:08
    although good progress in various
  • 00:28:11
    strikes so far has been done including
  • 00:28:13
    on the finance and we really strongly
  • 00:28:15
    feel that time is running out
  • 00:28:26
    Pichai and the limits to growth team
  • 00:28:28
    tried their best to warn decision-makers
  • 00:28:31
    about the risks of unlimited growth but
  • 00:28:35
    even when apparently everyone agrees the
  • 00:28:37
    risk is serious as with climate change
  • 00:28:40
    action is still not taken when I was 27
  • 00:28:45
    and just did the limits of growth I had
  • 00:28:49
    a very different understanding of the
  • 00:28:51
    world you see there's two general
  • 00:28:59
    mentalities about policy scientists
  • 00:29:05
    gather data and say oh my goodness the
  • 00:29:07
    sea levels going up intensive storms are
  • 00:29:10
    becoming worse droughts and
  • 00:29:11
    precipitation patterns are becoming more
  • 00:29:13
    difficult there's climate change we need
  • 00:29:15
    to change our greenhouse gas emissions
  • 00:29:17
    the other mentality says I don't believe
  • 00:29:20
    climate change because the glaciers are
  • 00:29:22
    actually getting bigger and then the
  • 00:29:25
    scientists do some studies they say no
  • 00:29:26
    actually the glaciers are getting
  • 00:29:28
    smaller around the world and then the
  • 00:29:31
    climate skeptics say well actually I
  • 00:29:33
    don't care about the glaciers so much I
  • 00:29:34
    don't believe in climate change I refuse
  • 00:29:37
    to take action now because the polar
  • 00:29:39
    bears are actually better off than they
  • 00:29:42
    used to be then the scientists do some
  • 00:29:45
    work and they say no actually the polar
  • 00:29:46
    peers for terrible trouble now they're
  • 00:29:48
    drowning they don't have any food
  • 00:29:49
    anymore the ice is going away from them
  • 00:29:51
    and the climate skeptic says well
  • 00:29:53
    actually I don't care so much about
  • 00:29:55
    polar bears really I mean I don't
  • 00:29:58
    believe in climate change because there
  • 00:30:00
    was a lot of snow in Washington DC last
  • 00:30:02
    winter
  • 00:30:14
    when I was a child
  • 00:30:16
    this licking Valley was full of small
  • 00:30:20
    deciduous trees crowded and then over
  • 00:30:23
    the last 50 to 60 years they have died
  • 00:30:26
    out due to competition and the biomass
  • 00:30:28
    is then concentrated into big trees
  • 00:30:31
    likely this is a Norwegian spruce and
  • 00:30:34
    it's very big you know for being this
  • 00:30:36
    far north you know people think what
  • 00:30:40
    about plus 2 degrees centigrade that's
  • 00:30:43
    so little it doesn't really matter but
  • 00:30:45
    it actually moves timber lines 300 350
  • 00:30:49
    meters vertical so what you have in the
  • 00:30:52
    Alps at a certain level will move 350
  • 00:30:55
    metres up what you have at the top will
  • 00:30:58
    move into the heaven and remain there
  • 00:31:01
    and and these are tremendous shifts and
  • 00:31:06
    at the same time the climate zones are
  • 00:31:10
    moving towards the North Pole you know
  • 00:31:13
    by essentially five kilometres per year
  • 00:31:16
    science depends on agreement you know
  • 00:31:21
    that that we can't we can't ever be
  • 00:31:25
    100.000 percent certain about any
  • 00:31:28
    anything on the planet but we can be
  • 00:31:32
    99.99 percent certain and that's where
  • 00:31:35
    we are about global climate change won't
  • 00:31:39
    do the limits to growth authors think
  • 00:31:41
    about the future now bill barons choice
  • 00:31:47
    to act has led to him personally
  • 00:31:49
    installing solar panels all over New
  • 00:31:51
    England for the last 20 years
  • 00:31:55
    solar energy worldwide is the most
  • 00:31:59
    abundant form of energy it's the lowest
  • 00:32:02
    cost form of electrical energy now on
  • 00:32:05
    the planet solar energy in my view has
  • 00:32:10
    the greatest chance for us as a as a
  • 00:32:14
    species of climbing back out of the hole
  • 00:32:18
    that we've put ourselves into
  • 00:32:23
    juergen Randers answer is in a book
  • 00:32:25
    entitled 2050 to his forecast for the
  • 00:32:28
    next 40 years
  • 00:32:30
    the real challenge that I see the real
  • 00:32:33
    problem is the possibility of self
  • 00:32:36
    reinforcing climate change in the second
  • 00:32:39
    half of this century I think that man
  • 00:32:42
    will continue his emissions of
  • 00:32:45
    greenhouse gases at such a rate that we
  • 00:32:47
    will reach plus 3 degrees centigrade in
  • 00:32:50
    2018 and that's possibly enough to start
  • 00:32:55
    melting the tundra or at least it will
  • 00:32:57
    move the border of the tundra further
  • 00:33:00
    north which releases methane and carbon
  • 00:33:04
    dioxide from the frozen moss which is
  • 00:33:07
    essentially the tundra and the our
  • 00:33:10
    strong greenhouse gases which of course
  • 00:33:11
    then makes the temperature even higher
  • 00:33:14
    which then melts more Tundra which then
  • 00:33:16
    releases more methane into the
  • 00:33:18
    atmosphere and if this process starts
  • 00:33:22
    there is then nothing man can do it will
  • 00:33:25
    go all the way until all the tundra is
  • 00:33:27
    melted and all the methane is in the
  • 00:33:30
    atmosphere dennis Meadows keeps
  • 00:33:34
    traveling the world as he has been doing
  • 00:33:37
    for the past four decades updating and
  • 00:33:40
    warning decision-makers about the
  • 00:33:41
    perspectives for the future from his
  • 00:33:44
    point of view this is from if an
  • 00:33:47
    aggressor baek-moo it's a great pleasure
  • 00:33:48
    to be here in Berlin I'm afraid I'll
  • 00:33:52
    have to switch to English due to the
  • 00:33:54
    limitations of my German I'd rather
  • 00:33:56
    speak intelligently in English then
  • 00:33:58
    sounds stupid in German auf Deutsch
  • 00:34:08
    the limits to growth story shows that 40
  • 00:34:12
    years were lost what are the actions we
  • 00:34:15
    could take now according to your ghen
  • 00:34:17
    Randers and Dennis Meadows global
  • 00:34:21
    problems affect everyone Claud you only
  • 00:34:25
    solve these problems if everybody works
  • 00:34:27
    together you can't solve climate change
  • 00:34:30
    in Bucharest if they don't solve it in
  • 00:34:33
    Beijing and grow New York and so forth
  • 00:34:38
    and a problem with these problems is
  • 00:34:41
    that you see if you want to take action
  • 00:34:44
    you pay now here and the benefits come
  • 00:34:47
    later
  • 00:34:47
    over there universal problems give a
  • 00:34:50
    different possibility they affect
  • 00:34:52
    everybody but like air pollution soil
  • 00:34:56
    erosion flooding deforestation you can
  • 00:34:59
    solve them here for you and the benefits
  • 00:35:03
    come here soon the second way we have to
  • 00:35:08
    change is to quit imagining we're going
  • 00:35:12
    to get sustainability and start seeking
  • 00:35:15
    resilience it's moving from sustainable
  • 00:35:18
    development to survivable development
  • 00:35:24
    resilience is the ability to absorb a
  • 00:35:26
    shock and to keep giving essential
  • 00:35:29
    functions so for example in Fukushima
  • 00:35:31
    the resilient cities were rather quick
  • 00:35:34
    able to start giving it again food and
  • 00:35:36
    water to their people the ones that
  • 00:35:40
    which didn't do it we're not resilient
  • 00:35:42
    we say they were brittle
  • 00:35:46
    all we need to do in order to solve the
  • 00:35:49
    climate problem is to shift of the order
  • 00:35:52
    of one to two percent of the world's
  • 00:35:55
    employment and capital from dirty
  • 00:35:58
    sectors to clean sectors so we ask the
  • 00:36:00
    capitalist system can capitalism
  • 00:36:02
    actually help us shift the investments
  • 00:36:05
    flows and of course the answer is no
  • 00:36:07
    capitalism is made in order to allocate
  • 00:36:09
    capital to the most profitable project
  • 00:36:11
    not to the projects that our society
  • 00:36:14
    beneficial so capitalism will not solve
  • 00:36:17
    this problem couldn't then society
  • 00:36:20
    regulate capitalism in such a manner
  • 00:36:23
    that what is societally beneficial also
  • 00:36:27
    becomes the most profitable and answer
  • 00:36:29
    is of course yes in principle you know
  • 00:36:31
    society could agree that for instance
  • 00:36:34
    putting a price on climate gas emissions
  • 00:36:37
    a carbon price which will make it
  • 00:36:39
    profitable to invest in electric cars
  • 00:36:41
    rather than in fossil cars but of course
  • 00:36:44
    that requires Parliament's to pass this
  • 00:36:47
    regulation and Parliament's is composed
  • 00:36:49
    of politicians who have voters and
  • 00:36:52
    voters are also short term in the sense
  • 00:36:55
    that voters are not in favor of
  • 00:36:57
    increased gasoline prices or increased
  • 00:36:59
    power prices so the core problem is
  • 00:37:02
    short termism in the individual
  • 00:37:06
    reflected in democracy and reflected in
  • 00:37:10
    capitalism which are true systems of
  • 00:37:12
    governance that we have chosen to guide
  • 00:37:14
    our lives
  • 00:37:15
    that's the programmatic the programmatic
  • 00:37:18
    sits in you and I and everyone else is
  • 00:37:21
    the short-term nature of the human being
  • 00:37:24
    the first chart in the limits to growth
  • 00:37:27
    book in 1972 was called human
  • 00:37:30
    perspectives and it's caption read
  • 00:37:33
    although the perspectives of the world's
  • 00:37:35
    people vary in space and time every
  • 00:37:38
    human concern falls somewhere on the
  • 00:37:41
    space-time a graph
  • 00:37:44
    the majority of the world's people are
  • 00:37:47
    concerned with matters that affect only
  • 00:37:49
    family or friends over a short period of
  • 00:37:51
    time
  • 00:37:53
    others look further ahead in time or
  • 00:37:56
    over a larger area a city or a nation
  • 00:37:59
    only a very few people have a global
  • 00:38:03
    perspective that extends far into the
  • 00:38:05
    future
  • 00:38:16
    it is amazing we have no lived for 40
  • 00:38:19
    years with shock after shock after shock
  • 00:38:21
    after shock and in most cases even in
  • 00:38:25
    the financial crisis which was
  • 00:38:27
    mishandled as badly as any crisis will
  • 00:38:31
    be you know the system is surprisingly
  • 00:38:34
    resilient and you know them is
  • 00:38:36
    surprisingly resilient now especially
  • 00:38:39
    for the rich yeah you're for sure but I
  • 00:38:41
    mean there are people who still today
  • 00:38:44
    are totally devastated by the
  • 00:38:47
    consequences of the 2008 crisis from our
  • 00:38:50
    perspective yes it was resilient but
  • 00:38:53
    there are all billions of people who say
  • 00:38:55
    no it was not Brazilian it was a
  • 00:38:56
    disaster now let me see on the other
  • 00:38:58
    hand in your book I admired that you
  • 00:39:01
    start to raise some issues that people
  • 00:39:03
    don't talk about very often it's
  • 00:39:05
    democracy really an effective governance
  • 00:39:08
    form from coping with these problems I
  • 00:39:11
    don't say anything about my preference
  • 00:39:14
    for it or the morality of it but we can
  • 00:39:17
    just say objectively democratic nations
  • 00:39:20
    are not getting in control of co2
  • 00:39:23
    emissions they're not getting in control
  • 00:39:25
    of environmental damage from global
  • 00:39:27
    perspectives and so forth and so it's
  • 00:39:31
    important to raise those issues get
  • 00:39:33
    people to start thinking about you that
  • 00:39:35
    you did I thought that was fine did you
  • 00:39:38
    know that the Norwegian Parliament
  • 00:39:41
    unbelievably allocated you know 50
  • 00:39:46
    million dollars or something like this a
  • 00:39:48
    fairly high amount of money to build
  • 00:39:51
    this seed Walt
  • 00:39:55
    they found a cool hillside where there
  • 00:39:59
    is permafrost to keep this at minus 35
  • 00:40:03
    degrees centigrade for as long as they
  • 00:40:06
    can and they have been offered to all
  • 00:40:08
    nations to store whatever they want in
  • 00:40:11
    the form of genetic material and it's
  • 00:40:13
    interesting in my mind very
  • 00:40:16
    forward-looking I would not have thought
  • 00:40:18
    that the democracy would be willing to
  • 00:40:20
    do that type of thing which is for some
  • 00:40:23
    kind of undefined group some time for in
  • 00:40:26
    the future so luckily in some cases I am
  • 00:40:29
    wrong Donella Meadows passed away in
  • 00:40:36
    2001 but her memory is still inspiring
  • 00:40:39
    many people around the world among them
  • 00:40:43
    are the members of Cobb Hill farm in
  • 00:40:45
    Vermont
  • 00:40:45
    a project started by John Ella some
  • 00:40:52
    dreams come true
  • 00:40:56
    so what is your vision what do you
  • 00:41:01
    really want
  • 00:41:11
    what will make this a world that would
  • 00:41:13
    make you excited to get up in the
  • 00:41:15
    morning and go to work in it that would
  • 00:41:19
    make you feel wonderful about the
  • 00:41:23
    possible future for your children and
  • 00:41:25
    your grandchildren excited at what they
  • 00:41:28
    will have the opportunity to bring forth
  • 00:41:31
    what kind of worlds would that be
  • 00:42:28
    you
الوسوم
  • Limits to Growth
  • Club of Rome
  • Sustainability
  • Finite Planet
  • Global Crises
  • Climate Change
  • Resilience
  • Capitalism
  • Environmental Policy
  • System Dynamics