Q&A with Vanessa Van Edwards: How to Communicate with Charisma
ุงูู ูุฎุต
TLDRIn this leadership podcast, Craig Groeschel interviews Vanessa Van Edwards, an expert in charismatic communication and founder of Science of People. They discuss the misconceptions about leadership being synonymous with constant positivity, emphasizing instead the impact of authenticity and 'relief emotions' like togetherness. Vanessa shares stories from her journey, revealing that charisma is rooted in being present and how emotions are contagious. She provides strategies for improving influence, suggesting that leaders address negativity in teams not with forced positivity but by fostering a sense of unity. A 'recovering awkward person' herself, Vanessa advises on overcoming social fears by embracing awkwardness and understanding personal communication styles. They delve into the importance of asking deep, meaningful questions to truly connect with others. Vanessa also shares tips on non-verbal communication, highlighting the importance of body language in presentations for authenticity and engagement. The episode underscores the core belief that true influence stems from a leader's ability to connect with genuine care, not just authority.
ุงููุฌุจุงุช ุงูุฌุงูุฒุฉ
- ๐ฅ Charisma is contagiousโbe aware of how your mood affects others.
- ๐ช Leaders don't need constant positivity; focus on being authentic.
- ๐ฃ๏ธ Use open-ended questions to engage team members deeply.
- ๐ Body language like hand gestures boosts communication effectiveness.
- ๐ Start presentations with clear, intentional gestures.
- ๐ก Understand personal communication style to improve interactions.
- ๐ฏ Create team relief by fostering unity over forced positivity.
- ๐ Continuous learning from others' insights enhances leadership.
- ๐ง Plan presentations to stay focused and authentic.
- ๐ Diagnose not just symptoms but root causes of team issues.
ุงูุฌุฏูู ุงูุฒู ูู
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
In the second part, Vanessa mentions that influence does not require constant positivity or extroversion. She shares that being present and aware can be powerful in itself, and leaders should aim to bring a relief emotion like togetherness or resetting when addressing team challenges.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Vanessa Van Edwards recounts her realization of the contagious nature of emotions in college. She describes an incident where one person's negative mood affected an entire study group, sparking her interest in the study of charisma and emotional contagion.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Craig and Vanessa discuss the misconception that leaders need to maintain positivity at all times. Vanessa introduces the concept of 'relief emotions' which are more sustainable and authentic ways for leaders to support their teams through challenging times.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
Craig reflects on the challenges leaders face in addressing negativity and stress, particularly post-pandemic. Vanessa suggests leaders focus on creating unity during challenging times rather than portraying forced positivity.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Vanessa elaborates on the difference between being naturally charismatic versus forcing positivity or extroversion. She encourages leaders to identify and share 'relief emotions' that align with the team's current state to foster an environment of togetherness.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
The conversation shifts to recognizing awkwardness as a part of growth. Vanessa suggests leaders should understand and address their own social fears, which often manifest as either withdrawal or excessive assertiveness.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
Craig shares his own experiences with creating awkwardness unintentionally. Vanessa recommends strategies such as leading with openness and understanding the communication preferences of introverts to improve communication dynamics.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Vanessa offers insight into good question-asking, explaining the importance of timing and phrasing. She encourages using questions that help unlock personal motivations and values for deeper relationship building.
- 00:40:00 - 00:47:49
Vanessa provides tips on using body language, highlighting gestures and posture as key elements to convey confidence. She advises framing questions positively to inspire constructive thinking and understanding among team members.
ุงูุฎุฑูุทุฉ ุงูุฐูููุฉ
ุงูุฃุณุฆูุฉ ุงูุดุงุฆุนุฉ
Who is Vanessa Van Edwards?
Vanessa Van Edwards is the founder and lead investigator at Science of People and an expert in communication and charisma.
What does Vanessa mean by 'contagious charisma'?
She explains that charismatic people can influence the mood and environment around them, either positively or negatively, and that improving your charisma can enhance your influence.
What's a strategy for leaders facing team members in a bad mood?
Vanessa suggests focusing on 'relief emotions' such as togetherness and unity instead of forcing positivity.
How does Vanessa define 'recovering awkward person'?
A recovering awkward person is someone who has struggled with social interactions but has learned to navigate them more effectively.
What kinds of questions should leaders ask to engage people effectively?
Vanessa recommends asking open-ended questions that uncover motivations and values, such as 'What forces shaped your personality?' or 'What keeps you up at night?'.
What advice does Vanessa give for improving public speaking?
She suggests using blueprints for non-verbal communication, focusing on gestures, and having a plan for movement and interaction on stage.
How can leaders improve their influence without being overly positive?
By genuinely caring and bringing emotions like unity, empathy, and understanding into interactions instead of just forced positivity.
Why does Vanessa emphasize the role of body language in communication?
Body language, especially hand gestures, helps convey confidence and improves comprehension and connection with the audience.
ุนุฑุถ ุงูู ุฒูุฏ ู ู ู ูุฎุตุงุช ุงูููุฏูู
- 00:00:00- I think the biggest mistake that we make as leaders
- 00:00:02or trying to have influence is we have to be positive
- 00:00:05all the time.
- 00:00:06That is impossible.
- 00:00:07(bright music)
- 00:00:11- Let me tell you about somebody that I've been looking
- 00:00:13forward to interviewing for so long.
- 00:00:15Vanessa Van Edwards is a friend,
- 00:00:17for about the last two years we've been getting
- 00:00:19to know each other.
- 00:00:20She is the founder and lead investigator
- 00:00:23at the Science of People.
- 00:00:25People all over the world listen to her incredible teaching.
- 00:00:28She's got more than 50 million people
- 00:00:30who watch her YouTube tutorials and her TEDx talk.
- 00:00:33She has two best selling books.
- 00:00:35"Captivate" is fantastic book,
- 00:00:38The Science of Succeeding with People,
- 00:00:40and the most recent one that I'll hold up for those of you
- 00:00:42that are watching it's called "Cues
- 00:00:45Master the Secret Language of Charismatic Communication."
- 00:00:49And there are few people more charismatic than you.
- 00:00:52Vanessa, welcome to the Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast.
- 00:00:56- Oh my goodness, I'm so honored to be here.
- 00:00:58Thank you for that beautiful intro.
- 00:00:59I hope I, is the most amazing interview ever.
- 00:01:02So I can't wait to share.
- 00:01:04- Well, a lot of people will be listening,
- 00:01:06a few will be watching and just as a side note,
- 00:01:09we had Vanessa take out her AirPods with cords
- 00:01:13because her hands are such a big part of a communication.
- 00:01:18We didn't wanna ripping those out of her ears.
- 00:01:21And so if you're watching, you're gonna get a masterclass
- 00:01:25in verbal communication from one of the best out there.
- 00:01:29Let's start with the basics
- 00:01:30and then we're gonna dive into some more specifics,
- 00:01:32especially around your book Cues.
- 00:01:34But one thing we know a lot of people say of leadership,
- 00:01:37they're gonna say that leadership is influence.
- 00:01:39And one of the things I love about what you do, Vanessa,
- 00:01:41is you really help us all grow in our influence
- 00:01:46one interaction at a time.
- 00:01:49When is it that you first discovered in your own life
- 00:01:52that you actually had the ability to influence other people?
- 00:01:55- I think when I think about influence,
- 00:01:57and this is especially important in my life,
- 00:01:59I didn't realize that our influence comes
- 00:02:01from just being present.
- 00:02:03In other words, I didn't realize how contagious we are,
- 00:02:06our charisma, our bad moods, our good moods
- 00:02:09and pretty early on I realized there was this effect
- 00:02:12that if you walked into a room
- 00:02:14and there was one person in a bad mood,
- 00:02:16it infected everyone.
- 00:02:18And I remember, I think this was in college,
- 00:02:20I went to Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia,
- 00:02:22for any of my southern friends.
- 00:02:24And I remember this distinctly.
- 00:02:25I was in a study group, I walked into the room,
- 00:02:27I was in a really nice mood, right?
- 00:02:29It was like a lovely day.
- 00:02:30And there was one person in the room who was just down.
- 00:02:32They were just having a bad day.
- 00:02:34And I remember the entire room got brought down
- 00:02:37even I was like, "Gosh, yeah, I am stressed,
- 00:02:40I am burnt out."
- 00:02:41As he started talking about how burnt out he was,
- 00:02:43and I had this aha moment of if one person in a bad mood
- 00:02:48could infect a room,
- 00:02:49could one person in a really good mood infect a room?
- 00:02:52That was the first time I ever remember having that idea
- 00:02:56that maybe we could walk into a room
- 00:02:58and infect good if we wanted to.
- 00:03:00And that was, I think the seed of me diving
- 00:03:03into a lot of the research
- 00:03:03on how contagious our emotions are.
- 00:03:06And one of the first studies I found after that,
- 00:03:08'cause I had access to all these academic databases
- 00:03:11at Emory was a study that was done by Richard Wiseman
- 00:03:15and he found that highly charismatic people
- 00:03:17are the most contagious.
- 00:03:19So yes, people in bad moods are contagious,
- 00:03:22but more importantly,
- 00:03:24if you rank high on the charisma scale,
- 00:03:27you are more infectious.
- 00:03:29You're infectious on phone calls,
- 00:03:30video calls, even listening to this podcast,
- 00:03:34I could infect you with a good mood
- 00:03:35or a bad mood depending on where I'm at.
- 00:03:39And so I thought that was so powerful that actually working
- 00:03:41on your charisma could make you more influential.
- 00:03:44- I think this is so important, especially right now.
- 00:03:46It's interesting, a lot of the guests that we're talking to
- 00:03:49say that even though we're moving what to
- 00:03:52what most would consider to be a little bit
- 00:03:53of a post pandemic world or mindset,
- 00:03:57their moods aren't moving on.
- 00:03:58In fact, a lot of people seem to be struggling
- 00:04:00more now today than maybe they were
- 00:04:03in what would we might call the peak of the chaos.
- 00:04:06And so I think right now it really, really matters in,
- 00:04:10what would you say to a leader that is walking into meetings
- 00:04:15where there would be more people in a bad mood
- 00:04:17and let's say the leader,
- 00:04:19not all leaders are naturally charismatic
- 00:04:21and maybe they're not.
- 00:04:23What advice would you give them to help lift the mood
- 00:04:26and help people see what's good in the world
- 00:04:30and what we can do to make a difference
- 00:04:31instead of getting stuck in the muck?
- 00:04:34- So I think the biggest mistake that we make as leaders
- 00:04:37or trying to have influence is we have to be positive
- 00:04:39all the time.
- 00:04:40That is impossible.
- 00:04:42I think that one of the reasons why we're still stuck
- 00:04:44in this like burnout, we're post chaos,
- 00:04:47but we still feel like we're kind of in the chaos
- 00:04:50is because we feel like I have to be positive all the time,
- 00:04:52or I'm not a good leader.
- 00:04:54That is not true.
- 00:04:55You one, you don't have to be positive all the time
- 00:04:57to have influence.
- 00:04:58You also don't have to be extroverted to be charismatic.
- 00:05:01Right, those are two things that I think we should bust.
- 00:05:03So for example, if you walk into a room
- 00:05:05and you have the pressure on your shoulders
- 00:05:07of being positive and happy, one, it rings is inauthentic.
- 00:05:11if you don't feel that way,
- 00:05:12second, that will burn you out faster than anything else.
- 00:05:15So actually what I want you to think about
- 00:05:18is what is the relief emotion that you can bring
- 00:05:21as a leader?
- 00:05:22So that isn't often positivity.
- 00:05:24So let's say that you have a company
- 00:05:26that's feeling like they're facing a lot of problems
- 00:05:28or a lot of challenges.
- 00:05:29The relief emotion to challenge,
- 00:05:32I think is togetherness, is unity.
- 00:05:34So that means you're going in and your number one goal
- 00:05:37is not pepping everyone up or being responsible
- 00:05:39for making them happy.
- 00:05:40No, it's making them feel less alone.
- 00:05:43And so your approach is, "Hey, I know we're in it.
- 00:05:46I know we're in the muck.
- 00:05:48You are not alone, I feel it too.
- 00:05:50I woke up today a little bit worried.
- 00:05:52You're so good at this."
- 00:05:53When you talk about humility, I think an aspect of humility
- 00:05:56is sharing the relief emotions.
- 00:05:58So togetherness, we're in it together,
- 00:06:00but we're gonna figure out how to do it.
- 00:06:01Here's how we're gonna solve it.
- 00:06:02Or let's say that you feel like your team is burnt out
- 00:06:06well then all you're bringing is not necessarily positivity,
- 00:06:08what you're bringing is resetting.
- 00:06:11How can you reset the energy?
- 00:06:12How can you bring a refuel in?
- 00:06:14And that's not necessarily positive,
- 00:06:16but it's more of an emotion that matches.
- 00:06:19And then I think people search to you
- 00:06:21for, ah, this person is bringing me answers.
- 00:06:24They're bringing me relief.
- 00:06:26- That is so, so good.
- 00:06:27I love that idea of bringing relief.
- 00:06:30I think that sometimes as leaders,
- 00:06:32we feel pressure to come in with positivity,
- 00:06:36and sometimes that's very inauthentic
- 00:06:39or it's just predictable.
- 00:06:42And the word that I was using Vanessa, was I feel,
- 00:06:45and I think relief really captures it better.
- 00:06:47I feel like people need to be settled right now
- 00:06:49that they're unsettled in most areas of their lives.
- 00:06:51And so I've been asking how do we help people feel settled?
- 00:06:54But I think another way to look at it
- 00:06:56is they feel pressure everywhere.
- 00:06:59There's weirdness outside of work,
- 00:07:01so they bring it into work.
- 00:07:02And I think that's a really good thing for leaders to do
- 00:07:05is to accurately diagnose what is the problem
- 00:07:09and what is a relief that we can bring into the situation
- 00:07:13that gives a breakthrough so we can actually
- 00:07:16solve the problems that are there.
- 00:07:17Because sometimes we're so negative.
- 00:07:20I'd love to dive into something that you say
- 00:07:21I think is actually really, really funny
- 00:07:23because you're.
- 00:07:25- I was funny?
- 00:07:26Yay.
- 00:07:27- It's, yeah, you're layers,
- 00:07:28but you're just so you know from my perspective,
- 00:07:31you come across as incredibly,
- 00:07:34authentically confident with transparency,
- 00:07:37with vulnerability, with strength, with charisma
- 00:07:40and yet I actually believe you when you tell me
- 00:07:43that you're a recovering awkward person.
- 00:07:45- Oh, yes. - Which is a funny phrase.
- 00:07:47And so I'm recovering awkward person.
- 00:07:49I think most of us as leaders, if we're really,
- 00:07:52really honest, we feel some combination of insecure,
- 00:07:56unprepared, under qualified, awkward, something like that.
- 00:08:00Since you were awkward and you're not now,
- 00:08:04what advice do you give to the rest of us
- 00:08:06to grow through our insecurities?
- 00:08:08- Okay, this is a everyday battle.
- 00:08:09So here's the big myth I wanna busts about awkwardness
- 00:08:13is it's a lifelong process and that's good, right?
- 00:08:16Like awkwardness is a sister emotion to vulnerability.
- 00:08:20So if we can keep some of our awkwardness,
- 00:08:21I think that keeps us humble.
- 00:08:23So here's what I want you to think about is,
- 00:08:25well, first of all I was surprised
- 00:08:26when I first quote unquote
- 00:08:27came out as a recovering awkward person, right?
- 00:08:30When I admitted this to people, I thought I hope you know,
- 00:08:34a couple dozen people will relate,
- 00:08:36little did I know that most people identify with this.
- 00:08:39So this is you and you're like,
- 00:08:40"Yes, I do have awkwardness."
- 00:08:42You are not alone.
- 00:08:43We just don't talk about it.
- 00:08:44Here's what I want you to think about.
- 00:08:45I want you to diagnose how your awkwardness dresses up.
- 00:08:49So I think that social fear or awkwardness,
- 00:08:53they can dress up as different things
- 00:08:54and we have to know how our awkwardness comes out.
- 00:08:58So for example, some people,
- 00:08:59when they feel awkward and awkwardness, let's break it down.
- 00:09:02It's feeling rejected, it's feeling scared of judgment,
- 00:09:06it's feeling disliked, it's disliking yourself, right?
- 00:09:10Those are all under the umbrella of awkwardness.
- 00:09:12So if that happens to you in a meeting,
- 00:09:14on a phone call, with your kids, it can happen anywhere.
- 00:09:18Do you go quiet?
- 00:09:19Do you close In?
- 00:09:21Some people with awkwardness, they close in on themselves.
- 00:09:24They hide, they shut down, they stop talking,
- 00:09:27they stop sharing, they speak in shorter sentences
- 00:09:30if you're a close in or if you shut down,
- 00:09:33it means all you wanna do is be alone.
- 00:09:34You wanna get away from the social interaction
- 00:09:36as quickly as possible
- 00:09:37and you have a really hard time sharing your ideas,
- 00:09:41sharing anything, right?
- 00:09:42You shut down.
- 00:09:43Other people and their awkwardness
- 00:09:45and this is what is gonna surprise a lot of leaders I think.
- 00:09:48Other people, they rise up not in a good way necessarily.
- 00:09:52They get louder, they show off, they name drop,
- 00:09:56they become dramatic, they interrupt people,
- 00:10:00they double down on their opinion,
- 00:10:03even if they don't think it's right.
- 00:10:05So awkwardness can also make you more judgmental.
- 00:10:07It can make you more mean.
- 00:10:09It can make you narcissistic.
- 00:10:12I think it's really important to understand your tendency
- 00:10:15because neither of those are right or wrong
- 00:10:17or better or worse.
- 00:10:18But it's very important to know that when you're feeling,
- 00:10:21wow, I was not humble today.
- 00:10:23I think I interrupted someone in that meeting.
- 00:10:25You know, I am being really judgmental,
- 00:10:27or I was gossiping today and I don't know what came over me.
- 00:10:31It was probably your awkwardness, right?
- 00:10:33It actually came from a much deeper place
- 00:10:36and so it helps you diagnose when you can go
- 00:10:38into those areas so you can stop it at the source
- 00:10:41as opposed to going into those two reactions.
- 00:10:43- So good, so a question from me.
- 00:10:45Whenever I was around my boss years ago,
- 00:10:47and I worked for somebody,
- 00:10:49I always felt nervous and he was super likable,
- 00:10:53but just his authority made me nervous.
- 00:10:54When I've found out kind of now,
- 00:10:56when I walk up to people sometimes that work here,
- 00:10:59they get nervous around me
- 00:11:00and the conversations get awkward.
- 00:11:02I went up to five people yesterday in the kitchen.
- 00:11:05I didn't know them.
- 00:11:05We have a big staff, didn't know them well,
- 00:11:08but I stopped and I asked them,
- 00:11:09"Hey, can you guys tell me something
- 00:11:11that you're thankful for right now?"
- 00:11:12And just big smile.
- 00:11:14And the first person just said, "I'm blank, I'm blank.
- 00:11:17I'm so nervous."
- 00:11:18And I tried so hard Vanessa, I said,
- 00:11:21"Hey, don't think of this as like, Boss Craig."
- 00:11:25I'm just like, I just wanna hear something good.
- 00:11:27Tell me something good.
- 00:11:28And before long it went there.
- 00:11:30But what advice would you give to us
- 00:11:32if we create awkwardness?
- 00:11:35What am I doing wrong?
- 00:11:35What can we do better?
- 00:11:37- Okay, so this is true.
- 00:11:39I'm even a little intimidated around you, Craig,
- 00:11:41and especially like, you know,
- 00:11:42we're walking around GLS and I'm always like,
- 00:11:45I wanna be ready to talk to you.
- 00:11:47I know that sounds crazy and you're so easy, but it's true.
- 00:11:51Your charisma is so powerful that I think it draws blanks.
- 00:11:56It can cause you draw blanks.
- 00:11:56So if you know this is you,
- 00:11:58so if you're listening and you're like,
- 00:11:59people have told me you're intimidating,
- 00:12:01people have told me, oh, I get, I freeze up
- 00:12:05when I'm around you,
- 00:12:06people tell you that you're hard to talk to
- 00:12:08you might fall into this category of charisma.
- 00:12:10What's really important is that you share first.
- 00:12:14So you asked a beautiful question,
- 00:12:17the most beautiful question, let's be honest, right?
- 00:12:19What are you grateful for?
- 00:12:21That is a question that's so important
- 00:12:23and so amazing that people wanna answer it, right?
- 00:12:26And also it takes us out of our every day,
- 00:12:28it takes us out of our task.
- 00:12:30It took them totally into their more spiritual,
- 00:12:32heart centered place.
- 00:12:33So what I would say is, "Hey, I would love to
- 00:12:36just have a gratitude moment with y'all
- 00:12:38and ask you what you feel grateful about for me
- 00:12:41and give them like a longer answer
- 00:12:44just to let people begin to think about their answer.
- 00:12:48'Cause in that way you're infecting them with positivity.
- 00:12:50So you're talking about your gratitude,
- 00:12:51you're also giving people time.
- 00:12:53So one, answer first and answer a little longer
- 00:12:56than you might normally do.
- 00:12:57If you work with introverts, this is so important
- 00:13:00we have to respect and honor our introverts.
- 00:13:03Our introverts are wired differently.
- 00:13:05They literally have different chemical responses
- 00:13:08to social interactions.
- 00:13:09So if you are a boss or a manager and you have an introvert
- 00:13:12on your team, you have to honor how they communicate.
- 00:13:15If you have a deep question or an icebreaker
- 00:13:18or a brainstorm session,
- 00:13:20send them what you're gonna talk about in writing first.
- 00:13:23And I know this is a lot of work for a leader, we're busy,
- 00:13:26but if you know that you're gonna have an icebreaker
- 00:13:28at your team meeting on Friday,
- 00:13:30tell them what it's going to be on Tuesday
- 00:13:32or have the same icebreaker
- 00:13:34so we have a lot of introverts on our team,
- 00:13:36obviously Science of People
- 00:13:37we attract fellow recovering awkward people, which I love.
- 00:13:41And so we have the same icebreaker
- 00:13:43at the start of every meeting.
- 00:13:44It's, tell me something good
- 00:13:46because of what I learned in the pandemic was
- 00:13:49when we didn't start with that icebreaker,
- 00:13:51it always started on a low.
- 00:13:53It's like the whole team would log in
- 00:13:54and be like, oh, I'm burnt out and those numbers.
- 00:13:58And so I said, "Okay guys, we're changing this up.
- 00:14:00I want the very first thing we all talk about
- 00:14:02is tell me something good,"
- 00:14:03that allows my introverts in the team,
- 00:14:06my employees have told me
- 00:14:08all week they save their good thing, all week,
- 00:14:11they save their good thing.
- 00:14:12And that morning we have our calls at 10 o'clock on Tuesday.
- 00:14:15On Tuesday morning, if they don't have something good,
- 00:14:17they go find something good.
- 00:14:18I'm like, what a great way to influence, right?
- 00:14:21- That's so smart.
- 00:14:22- So think about is there a tradition you can set up
- 00:14:24or warning them to open up
- 00:14:25and that helps people feel like they don't have
- 00:14:28to think about in the moment or draw a blank.
- 00:14:31- Yeah, well that's super helpful to me
- 00:14:33because I do know that about introverts,
- 00:14:35but it's not always the front of my mind.
- 00:14:37For example, I'll do like, you do a lot of talks,
- 00:14:39I'll go over my talks with people before I give it.
- 00:14:42So I get what I call pre feedback
- 00:14:44instead of waiting until later on.
- 00:14:45I get it ahead of time.
- 00:14:47And my introverts in the room, they won't say much,
- 00:14:50they'll go back and three hours later I'll get an email
- 00:14:53from them with a lot of really deep insight.
- 00:14:57They can't process in the moment,
- 00:14:59but they do come back and so I like that.
- 00:15:02And I also like that you complimented my question
- 00:15:06because I heard one of the only two time returning speakers
- 00:15:11at the Global Leadership Summit that was you
- 00:15:14back to back years,
- 00:15:15which is a really rare feat at the biggest leadership stage
- 00:15:19in the world.
- 00:15:21And this last year you gave a talk about the importance
- 00:15:24of the type of questions you asked, which convicted me.
- 00:15:28Can you give us a little insight?
- 00:15:31What's the difference between a good question
- 00:15:33and a bad question when we're interacting
- 00:15:36with people professionally?
- 00:15:37- Oh, thank you.
- 00:15:38Thank you so much for that comment.
- 00:15:39It was such an honor to come back
- 00:15:41'cause I got to go deeper with this talk.
- 00:15:43My second, you know, my first talk I wanted to share
- 00:15:46as much as I could, but my second talk,
- 00:15:47I had a little bit of space to be even more vulnerable
- 00:15:50and go deep.
- 00:15:50So thank you for that space.
- 00:15:51It was such a wonderful experience.
- 00:15:54And I got to talk about this science
- 00:15:56which lead me these questions,
- 00:15:58which is that when we're connecting with people,
- 00:16:00we have to pass through three levels of connection.
- 00:16:03First, just who we are, our general traits,
- 00:16:05what do you do, where you're from?
- 00:16:07How many kids do you have?
- 00:16:09Second, personal concerns, what people worry about,
- 00:16:12what motivates them, their values, and lastly,
- 00:16:15their self narrative,
- 00:16:16the story they tell themselves about themselves.
- 00:16:18So actually good questions have to be timed right.
- 00:16:21If you don't know someone well,
- 00:16:22you're only in level one with them.
- 00:16:24You know how many kids they have,
- 00:16:26maybe they play some sports on the weekend.
- 00:16:28You don't wanna jump to level three
- 00:16:29because that's when you draw a blank, right?
- 00:16:31So if I were to walk into a room
- 00:16:33and ask one of my newer employees
- 00:16:35who I don't know very well,
- 00:16:36so what's your greatest fear, right?
- 00:16:40That is a great question.
- 00:16:42But I promise you they're gonna draw a blank or cry.
- 00:16:46And that's not good leadership, right?
- 00:16:47- Their greatest fear is that they're gonna ask them
- 00:16:49what their greatest fear is before they're ready.
- 00:16:51- Right, by the way, I actually wanna take it back.
- 00:16:53I don't think that's a great question,
- 00:16:55if you're thinking about questions as a leader.
- 00:16:57You know why people chicken out on that question?
- 00:17:00I notice that if I ask that question, people will go,
- 00:17:02oh, spiders, snakes, that's not a real answer, right?
- 00:17:07Like, our deepest fear is usually something internal.
- 00:17:09So I actually try not to ask that question,
- 00:17:11but it's too deep, it's too much.
- 00:17:12So timing is really important.
- 00:17:14If you're trying to get to know someone,
- 00:17:16what you wanna just know about them is what motivates them.
- 00:17:18So things like, have you been reading
- 00:17:22anything interesting recently?
- 00:17:24Or have you had any great Bible passages
- 00:17:26that you've read recently?
- 00:17:28Or are you looking forward to anything coming up
- 00:17:30this summer, this weekend, this holiday, this?
- 00:17:32Those are casual questions, but they're better than,
- 00:17:34how are you, they're better than how's the family.
- 00:17:37Now what if you know someone kind of well,
- 00:17:39you've been working with them for a couple years,
- 00:17:41or their friends,
- 00:17:42or you wanna get to them a little bit better,
- 00:17:44but you know, already know the basics,
- 00:17:45that's when you wanna dive into questions
- 00:17:48that unlock their personality.
- 00:17:50So here's some of my favorite questions.
- 00:17:52What forces shaped your personality?
- 00:17:56That's one of my favorite questions,
- 00:17:57especially for like a long dinner or a long car ride.
- 00:18:00Because you're gonna start to tap into
- 00:18:03what do they believe has shaped themselves?
- 00:18:06I asked this of my colleagues,
- 00:18:07I asked this of my team members, of my friends.
- 00:18:10And I am always shocked at what people think
- 00:18:13has shaped them.
- 00:18:15That is a key.
- 00:18:16It's an answer key.
- 00:18:17If you wanna shape them,
- 00:18:18you should know what's shaped them in the past.
- 00:18:20- I like that a lot.
- 00:18:22I lead a church with a lot of pastors
- 00:18:24and people that interact with people.
- 00:18:26Your talk took me to so many different levels
- 00:18:29of understanding of the why behind this is important.
- 00:18:32And what I always called it, I called it the third question,
- 00:18:35which was just something I made up.
- 00:18:37The first two are usually obvious, what do you do,
- 00:18:39where are you from, that kind of thing.
- 00:18:40And the, I always said, ask one more
- 00:18:43that is in and like how you call it level three,
- 00:18:46that is, the something deeper.
- 00:18:47And I've been trying to figure out a way
- 00:18:49to ask this question and maybe you can help me,
- 00:18:52but one of the things I love to hear is the thing
- 00:18:56behind your success and so I kinda like the way you ask it,
- 00:19:00what forces have created who you are.
- 00:19:03But I always like to, what I like to do is when,
- 00:19:05especially when you're around people that you know,
- 00:19:06have something special and almost everybody
- 00:19:08has something special,
- 00:19:09there's something behind that, something
- 00:19:11and so that's, I kind of been trying to figure out
- 00:19:13a way for years to ask it in a real clear way.
- 00:19:16But, and so I'm gonna ask you my own version of it,
- 00:19:20but what is it that helped create your curiosity
- 00:19:26and ability to curate information
- 00:19:28and present it in a way that helps people like me
- 00:19:31gain influence one interaction at a time.
- 00:19:33What is the thing behind your success
- 00:19:36that drove you to create content that helps change
- 00:19:40so many people's lives?
- 00:19:42- Hmm.
- 00:19:43Okay, before I answer that question,
- 00:19:44I'm gonna procrastinate by answering your first question
- 00:19:47'cause I don't, it's such a good question.
- 00:19:49I don't know the answer right away,
- 00:19:49but I love success questions.
- 00:19:52Here's a couple ways of asking this I think,
- 00:19:54and I love this kind of thing too,
- 00:19:55especially with people who have something magical
- 00:19:57or special or they've achieved something,
- 00:19:58I will often ask like, did you have a tipping point
- 00:20:01in your career or your life.
- 00:20:03Tipping points are really interesting.
- 00:20:04I don't know if you ever done this exercise with people,
- 00:20:07but I highly recommend if you have like a team retreat,
- 00:20:09you have people do plot their lifeline
- 00:20:12and you have them break their life up into chapters.
- 00:20:15It's a beautiful exercise because you can ask in that,
- 00:20:17what was the tipping point in your life.
- 00:20:19Usually you don't wanna ask them what was the highlight
- 00:20:21of your life,
- 00:20:22'cause then they'll say something obvious
- 00:20:23like my wedding day or the day my kids were born
- 00:20:25and that's for trying to get deeper than that.
- 00:20:26So if you ask someone, do you have a tipping point
- 00:20:28or a changing point or an inflection point
- 00:20:30or sliding doors moment,
- 00:20:33that can be a really interesting one for someone to say,
- 00:20:35oh, the moment I realized X.
- 00:20:38For me, I think I did have a tipping point moment
- 00:20:40which changed the way I think about things,
- 00:20:42which is actually just my biggest failure.
- 00:20:45It was the most humbling experience.
- 00:20:47I shared a little bit about it on stage,
- 00:20:49which is that I got a book deal in 2010, wrote a book,
- 00:20:54thought it would change my life, was so excited,
- 00:20:55it was with a big publisher and it came out
- 00:20:57and totally failed, totally failed.
- 00:21:00No one bought it.
- 00:21:01And it was so humbling
- 00:21:04because one, I thought I knew what my purpose was
- 00:21:08and it didn't work, it did not resonate.
- 00:21:10And second, it made me start from scratch.
- 00:21:13And I realized, you know,
- 00:21:15if you look at some of the beautiful writings
- 00:21:17of Viktor Frankl, a "Man's Search for Meaning,"
- 00:21:19I didn't have enough meaning in my life.
- 00:21:21I think I was writing, yes I was writing,
- 00:21:23but it didn't mean much to me.
- 00:21:25And so here I was like humbled, started from scratch,
- 00:21:28told I was never write again, would never write again,
- 00:21:31I should quit what I was doing and go back to school
- 00:21:33or go get a job somewhere else.
- 00:21:35And I was like, what's the one thing I need,
- 00:21:37is I need meaning.
- 00:21:38I need to do something that has meaning.
- 00:21:39And so every piece of content from that point on,
- 00:21:42from I think it was my book came out in August of 2011.
- 00:21:45It took at me about a year to write it
- 00:21:47from September 1st on September 1st, 2011 on
- 00:21:51it was if this piece of content does not help someone,
- 00:21:54make someone laugh or give them an aha moment,
- 00:21:56it doesn't get posted.
- 00:21:58If this video, if this blog,
- 00:21:59if this speech does not have some kind of meaning in it,
- 00:22:02I'm not doing it.
- 00:22:04And that's I think been such a amazing rule for myself
- 00:22:09'cause it's helped keep me, keep me on point.
- 00:22:12- So I, in my observation of you,
- 00:22:15and we're what I call newer friends, meaning we've had,
- 00:22:18you know, multiple interactions,
- 00:22:20but we don't know each other well.
- 00:22:23I've got a ton of respect for you
- 00:22:24and based on what I know about you,
- 00:22:26it seems like something that sets you apart
- 00:22:28from other leaders, to be a leader you generally
- 00:22:31have to have some level of confidence
- 00:22:33in something about you.
- 00:22:34And many leaders start with the I, I am good at this,
- 00:22:38I'm passionate about this.
- 00:22:40You seem to be, and correct me if I'm wrong,
- 00:22:42but you seem to be great because you start with the you,
- 00:22:45it seems like everything that you do
- 00:22:48is considering someone else first.
- 00:22:50Is that accurate, and if so, can you unpack it for me?
- 00:22:54- So true.
- 00:22:55Because the I statements actually trigger
- 00:22:57my imposter syndrome.
- 00:22:59So when I'm backstage and I am so nervous
- 00:23:02about to hit the stage, if I go into I,
- 00:23:05if I think I'm really good at reading studies,
- 00:23:08I'm really good on stage.
- 00:23:10I don't feel good on stage.
- 00:23:12I don't feel like I'm that good of a writer.
- 00:23:14I don't feel like I'm that good at much.
- 00:23:15And so my imposter syndrome starts to trigger
- 00:23:18and I don't wanna get on stage.
- 00:23:20But if I say to myself,
- 00:23:22and this is literally what I say to myself backstage,
- 00:23:25this content helps people.
- 00:23:27I know I have gotten emails and calls
- 00:23:30and people tearfully walking up to me saying
- 00:23:33that speech changed my life.
- 00:23:35If I think about them, I'm like,
- 00:23:37I know this content can change people.
- 00:23:39I know it can help people.
- 00:23:40That is the only thing that can get me out onto stage.
- 00:23:44So that's how I conquer my imposter syndrome
- 00:23:46is remembering all the, if you're listening,
- 00:23:48if you ever, you know sent me a nice email
- 00:23:51or even give me a, like a nice comment,
- 00:23:53those are what actually get me to post and do more.
- 00:23:57- Well it works.
- 00:23:57And one of the things that you say in your writing,
- 00:24:00you say speak in a way that people will listen.
- 00:24:03And what advice do you have?
- 00:24:05What can I do better?
- 00:24:07What can we as leaders do better to speak in a way
- 00:24:10that does our incredibility value people?
- 00:24:13What does that mean?
- 00:24:14Speak in a way that people will listen.
- 00:24:16- I wanna get really tactical on this question.
- 00:24:18So we could get really broad and talk about being authentic
- 00:24:20and being strong and those are all important things.
- 00:24:22But actually there's a tactic that I use in my teaching
- 00:24:26and my speaking and leading my team,
- 00:24:29which is a very simple concept,
- 00:24:30which is the difference between a vitamin and a painkiller.
- 00:24:34If you wanna speak to people, listen,
- 00:24:35you have to speak in a way that makes them feel
- 00:24:37like they need something.
- 00:24:38The metaphor that I think about constantly is,
- 00:24:42is it a vitamin or a painkiller?
- 00:24:43What I mean by that is a vitamin is something
- 00:24:45that's good for you.
- 00:24:47So, you know, we take vitamins 'cause we think we should,
- 00:24:50you know, it's for a future health benefit.
- 00:24:53We don't ever feel like I need my vitamin today.
- 00:24:55It's absolutely preventative.
- 00:24:57And so often we forget to take them, right?
- 00:25:00We skip a morning if we're really busy,
- 00:25:02we don't notice if we've missed them.
- 00:25:04Vitamin content, vitamin inspiration, vitamin influence
- 00:25:08it's again, it's kind of missed.
- 00:25:10It makes people kind of tune out.
- 00:25:12That's when they check their emails.
- 00:25:13And so if you have vitamin presentations or speeches
- 00:25:16or updates or zoom calls or things in your business,
- 00:25:19it's just not as sticky.
- 00:25:20Instead, I want you to think about what's the pain killer?
- 00:25:23A pain killer, if you have a headache,
- 00:25:26you don't have to be reminded or advertised to
- 00:25:28that you need a painkiller.
- 00:25:29You go searching for the painkiller, right?
- 00:25:31You go asking, do you have a Advil?
- 00:25:33Do you have an Advil?
- 00:25:34You go looking for your closet,
- 00:25:35you go looking through your drawers.
- 00:25:36You want that painkiller
- 00:25:38because you already have the problem
- 00:25:39and you were searching for a solution.
- 00:25:41So as a leader, if you wanna get people to listen,
- 00:25:44you have to think what is the painkiller
- 00:25:46that someone is searching for?
- 00:25:48What kind of pain are they in spiritually,
- 00:25:52emotionally, professionally?
- 00:25:53And how can I provide the painkiller for them?
- 00:25:57That's when you have people who are listening on the edge
- 00:25:59of their seats.
- 00:26:00That's when you have people who seek you out
- 00:26:03because you're answering their painkiller problem.
- 00:26:05And so I think about this when I'm structuring my agendas
- 00:26:08for my team calls, right?
- 00:26:10And by the way, of course sometimes I have vitamins
- 00:26:12and I say, everyone this is a vitamin, right?
- 00:26:14We're gonna do a little vitamin first, but don't worry,
- 00:26:17I have a painkiller at the end of the meeting.
- 00:26:19I did in my presentations, my social media
- 00:26:22so if you can start to think about where are your vitamins
- 00:26:25and where your painkillers,
- 00:26:26it's so powerful psychologically
- 00:26:28for the people you're trying to help.
- 00:26:29- That really is.
- 00:26:30And that also goes back to kind of what you said
- 00:26:33about the relief and so what you're doing is
- 00:26:35you're not coming into meetings or presentations
- 00:26:38just with an agenda,
- 00:26:40but you're coming in with a heart to understand
- 00:26:42where your people are, what they need,
- 00:26:45what will help them to feel valued, loved, cared for, heard.
- 00:26:50And then you could be on the same page
- 00:26:53and do a lot together.
- 00:26:54- And you don't have to know the painkiller, right?
- 00:26:57Like I have years in my business,
- 00:26:58I call them heads down years or heads up years
- 00:27:00or heads down months or heads up months.
- 00:27:03So a heads down month means I'm working in the business,
- 00:27:06I'm building curriculum, I'm fixing things,
- 00:27:08I'm doing research,
- 00:27:09I'm not doing a lot of interviews or podcasts.
- 00:27:11And then I have heads up months
- 00:27:13where I'm teaching whatever I just learned.
- 00:27:15So if you don't know the answer to the question,
- 00:27:17what's your people's painkiller,
- 00:27:19go in a heads down mode of asking questions
- 00:27:22where all you're doing is getting on stage and asking,
- 00:27:25walking to meetings and asking.
- 00:27:27You know, you can ask too.
- 00:27:28People will tell you, believe me,
- 00:27:30people know what pain they're in.
- 00:27:32They know.
- 00:27:33- Let's talk a little bit more about that, Vanessa.
- 00:27:35It seems to me, you know,
- 00:27:36I talked to a lot of leaders like you do,
- 00:27:38it seems like more of them right now in this current season
- 00:27:41would probably say it's kind of a heads down.
- 00:27:43Not even like just working on things but more,
- 00:27:45I think there are more leaders
- 00:27:47that feel a little bit discouraged, a little bit confused.
- 00:27:49They're trying to find what is the painkiller
- 00:27:52even trying to accurately diagnose the pain.
- 00:27:54I think so many people right now are hurting
- 00:27:56in so many different ways that they don't,
- 00:27:59like I talked to two different leaders
- 00:28:01who had employees leave
- 00:28:03and both of them said their employees said we're leaving,
- 00:28:06but we're not even sure why.
- 00:28:08Like, they couldn't even put words to the emotions
- 00:28:11they were feeling.
- 00:28:12And my theory is they're hurting in so many areas
- 00:28:14of their life that work is one of the few places
- 00:28:16they can control
- 00:28:17and so they think a change there might help
- 00:28:19when it sometimes doesn't.
- 00:28:21Can you give us some advice that when we are talking
- 00:28:26to people that are hurting,
- 00:28:27what kind of questions do we ask?
- 00:28:29How do we accurately diagnose it?
- 00:28:31I feel like sometimes we're trying to bring answers
- 00:28:34that are answers but to the wrong questions
- 00:28:37or the wrong problems.
- 00:28:38What do we do to accurately diagnose the state
- 00:28:42of our team members that we love?
- 00:28:44- Yes okay.
- 00:28:45So first, for anyone who's important to you on your team,
- 00:28:48of course everyone's important,
- 00:28:49but people that you can really actively help,
- 00:28:50you should know what's a really good day for them at work
- 00:28:54and what's a really bad day for them at work.
- 00:28:56And that's a very safe question, but can tell you so much.
- 00:28:59So a great way to start a meeting or performance review
- 00:29:02or a check-in is, hey, what's your best day at work?
- 00:29:04The day where you go home and you are so jazzed
- 00:29:06and you were so filled, what is it?
- 00:29:08When was the last time you had one?
- 00:29:10Now hopefully they'll be able to answer that question.
- 00:29:12If they can't, then very quickly go to the next one,
- 00:29:14which is what's the days that you come home
- 00:29:17and either you dread the day before it even happens,
- 00:29:19or you come home and you're drained
- 00:29:21and you're questioning everything.
- 00:29:22What happens on those days
- 00:29:24and when was the last time you had one?
- 00:29:26Those two questions are so powerful
- 00:29:29because you're looking at the spectrum of their work life,
- 00:29:32their best day and their worst day.
- 00:29:33And you know exactly how to hit either end of the spectrum.
- 00:29:37I, by the way this is a great question for your partner too.
- 00:29:41You know, like asking your partner, what's your best day?
- 00:29:43What's the day that you just love?
- 00:29:45Is it a family day?
- 00:29:46Is it a home day?
- 00:29:47Is it a vacation day?
- 00:29:48What's your worst day, right?
- 00:29:50Like those, the ends of those spectrums we should know.
- 00:29:54And the second kind of way that you can go about this
- 00:29:57is also what do you worry about?
- 00:30:00What do you dread?
- 00:30:02What keeps you up at night?
- 00:30:04That's like the next sort of existential question.
- 00:30:07So a good day, bad day,
- 00:30:08you're gonna get answers about a lot of logistics, right?
- 00:30:10Someone might say, "Oh, I hate the billing month.
- 00:30:14I hate when we have to do our all day whatevers."
- 00:30:16And that's good to know,
- 00:30:17the next deeper level, the level three is,
- 00:30:20what keeps you up at night?
- 00:30:21What worries you most?
- 00:30:23What do you dread when you see it on your calendar
- 00:30:25or you get an email in your inbox?
- 00:30:26And that's when you can get into diagnosing
- 00:30:28some of the deeper things.
- 00:30:29- See that's interesting to me, Vanessa,
- 00:30:31'cause I think I'm thinking too shallow sometimes.
- 00:30:33Some of the questions I'll ask would be like,
- 00:30:35I'll ask it in a couple of ways.
- 00:30:36Sometimes they'll say,
- 00:30:37what is it that other people would want me
- 00:30:40to know that I don't know?
- 00:30:42And I've found that sometimes it's easier for them
- 00:30:44to tell me what they want me to know
- 00:30:45if I say other people, right?
- 00:30:47Or I'll say, you know, if there's something
- 00:30:51that you could suggest to make this place better,
- 00:30:54what is it?
- 00:30:54But those are still, those are tactical
- 00:30:58and you're getting a little bit deeper than that.
- 00:31:00And so I think that that's helpful to me.
- 00:31:03And I want people who are listening right now
- 00:31:05to ask yourself, how deep are you getting in the questions?
- 00:31:09Because if you can get down to the, I'm always a afraid,
- 00:31:12I'm trying to make diagnosis based on the symptoms
- 00:31:15and I'm missing the root.
- 00:31:16And I'm always trying to get down to the roots so that,
- 00:31:18I think those questions and I took, I'm taking notes,
- 00:31:22I hope I'm not obsessing too much,
- 00:31:23but I think that some of the words,
- 00:31:25like the words tipping point,
- 00:31:27that stands out, and you use the word what forces
- 00:31:31and I think that really getting into wordsmithing
- 00:31:36the words that give people freedom to express
- 00:31:38their emotions, it's so valuable.
- 00:31:41And what's so sad is I think
- 00:31:43that most leaders genuinely care,
- 00:31:46but many team members don't feel it.
- 00:31:48And what we have to do is we have to learn
- 00:31:50how to get into the place where we let them feel it.
- 00:31:54And I think that's why you're helping.
- 00:31:56- And intention is really important here too.
- 00:31:58Like if you open, how you open these meetings,
- 00:32:00these conversations is just as important
- 00:32:02as the questions you ask.
- 00:32:04So saying, "I'm trying to level up my leadership,
- 00:32:07I'm trying to understand deeper root meanings
- 00:32:10of what's happening for you,
- 00:32:11not just logistics and problems.
- 00:32:13I have been asking these or we've been talking about this
- 00:32:17and I listened to this amazing podcast with Craig
- 00:32:18and Vanessa and they brought up some questions.
- 00:32:20Can we talk about them?
- 00:32:21Can I try some new questions with you?"
- 00:32:23- Yes, yes and how we ask the questions matter so much.
- 00:32:26So I did a meeting the other day,
- 00:32:28we had like 40 new staff members in,
- 00:32:30once a quarter we meet with them.
- 00:32:31And so I have a 30 minute Q and A session.
- 00:32:34The very first question was a great question,
- 00:32:36but I didn't like the way it was framed.
- 00:32:38It was a young female leader who said,
- 00:32:42ministry's hard, a lot of work, we know that
- 00:32:44and she said, how do we avoid burnout?
- 00:32:46And I said that I think that's a really,
- 00:32:48really important subject,
- 00:32:49but the way I want to ask it is not leading with a negative.
- 00:32:52And I think I'm afraid Vanessa,
- 00:32:53that in many places I'm going now we're leading
- 00:32:56with a negative. - Yes.
- 00:32:57- The way I'd like to ask it is,
- 00:32:58how do we reach a lot of people do great ministry
- 00:33:01and be healthy in the meantime?
- 00:33:02It's the same topic but I really think
- 00:33:06that in our culture today,
- 00:33:08we need to lead with questions that point.
- 00:33:11And here's another question someone had was
- 00:33:13a lot of our teams are mentally struggling
- 00:33:15with mental health.
- 00:33:16What do we do about it?
- 00:33:17I think a better way to say it is,
- 00:33:18how do we pursue mental health in a very unhealthy culture?
- 00:33:23It's the pursuit of a goal,
- 00:33:25not a focus on the negative.
- 00:33:26So I don't know, I'm maybe obsessing too much about it,
- 00:33:28but I really think those,
- 00:33:30the tone of the questions we ask shapes the way
- 00:33:33our organizations go and think.
- 00:33:35- Oh yes, and there's science on this.
- 00:33:38So the kinds of words we use change our answers.
- 00:33:41You know, I actually don't even believe
- 00:33:43I shared this on stage.
- 00:33:43It's one of my favorite studies, very simple.
- 00:33:45They brought people into their lab
- 00:33:47and they split them up to two different groups.
- 00:33:49One group was told to play the community game,
- 00:33:52they said you're gonna play the community game,
- 00:33:53here's how you play it, play.
- 00:33:55And they played a kind of prisoner's dilemma kind of game.
- 00:33:57The next group brought into the same lab, same researchers,
- 00:34:00same game, but they were told,
- 00:34:02you're gonna play the Wall Street game.
- 00:34:04Same rules, same game.
- 00:34:06People who were told they were playing the Wall Street game
- 00:34:09shared 1/3 of their profits.
- 00:34:11People who told they were playing the community game
- 00:34:13shared 2/3 of their profits.
- 00:34:16This is an incredible experiment.
- 00:34:18It was one word change.
- 00:34:20So the framing of your questions,
- 00:34:23the framing of your intros
- 00:34:25literally changes the way people behave.
- 00:34:28It changes the way they collaborate.
- 00:34:29So if we come at our questions and our framing
- 00:34:33from with community and openness and resilience and relief,
- 00:34:38we are literally infecting people and activating that part
- 00:34:41of their brain to feel more relief.
- 00:34:43- I wish we could talk about this for hours.
- 00:34:44This applies to, like you said to in marriage relationships,
- 00:34:48in parenting, the questions that we ask our kids
- 00:34:52I mean, I'd love to go into,
- 00:34:53you know what I've learned raising six of them.
- 00:34:56I'm even tempted to even try.
- 00:34:57But I'm gonna stay with you on it.
- 00:35:00But these are, this is so, so, so important.
- 00:35:03And just I'll give a just a little commercial
- 00:35:05to everybody listening.
- 00:35:06Get Vanessa's books, dive in, watch her videos.
- 00:35:09I promise you they're so, so helpful.
- 00:35:11I want to, I cannot have you on here
- 00:35:13without going to body language.
- 00:35:15You're like an expert on body language,
- 00:35:18both in the science and the understanding
- 00:35:20and then just if you're watching,
- 00:35:22I feel it pretty embarrassed
- 00:35:24because I'm supposed to be a communicator.
- 00:35:26My hands are out on my side, I'm doing nothing
- 00:35:28and you're like, you are going to town.
- 00:35:30I'd love to know, based on the science
- 00:35:33and what you discovered,
- 00:35:34let's assume this Vanessa, it's a leader's first day.
- 00:35:37So they just got hired onto a team.
- 00:35:40They got their very first meeting, their first presentation,
- 00:35:43they're gonna make a first impression.
- 00:35:45They're walking into the room, what do they do?
- 00:35:48What do they say?
- 00:35:49Where do they sit?
- 00:35:50How do they interact?
- 00:35:51Give us some advice.
- 00:35:52- Okay, so hands first.
- 00:35:53You mentioned hand gestures.
- 00:35:54This is a weird one.
- 00:35:55Most people think about eye contact first,
- 00:35:57and I love eye contact
- 00:35:58but actually the very first thing we look at,
- 00:36:01we look at eye tracking studies,
- 00:36:03is we look at people's hands.
- 00:36:04This is actually left over from our caveman days.
- 00:36:07Back in caveman days, if we were approached by someone
- 00:36:09or someone walks into a room,
- 00:36:10the very first thing we looked at was their hands
- 00:36:12to see if they were carrying a rock or a spear
- 00:36:14or some kind of a weapon.
- 00:36:15This still remains in our habit.
- 00:36:17And also now we're looking for hands to show intention.
- 00:36:21Are they gonna wave?
- 00:36:21Are they gonna acknowledge us?
- 00:36:23Are we gonna handshake?
- 00:36:23Are we gonna high five?
- 00:36:24Are we gonna hug?
- 00:36:25Are they gonna hand me something?
- 00:36:27So we're very aware of gestures.
- 00:36:28And so the moment you hop on video,
- 00:36:31good morning with a little wave,
- 00:36:32"Hey everyone, good to see you."
- 00:36:34It literally deactivates the amygdala where we process fear.
- 00:36:37When you walk into a room,
- 00:36:39give a little wave around the table.
- 00:36:40"Hey everyone, good to see you, so happy to be here."
- 00:36:42So hands first out of pockets,
- 00:36:45Eye ideally visible and greeting
- 00:36:47and not hiding behind a computer or a briefcase
- 00:36:50or a laptop, right hidden.
- 00:36:51So hands first, super easy.
- 00:36:54The second thing is we wanna be broad.
- 00:36:57And I don't mean we should walk into our, you know,
- 00:36:59our rooms like rocky, right?
- 00:37:02With huge, broad posture.
- 00:37:05But the mistake that a lot of people make,
- 00:37:07especially on video,
- 00:37:08is they creep their shoulders up to their ears
- 00:37:11and they sink their head down and they go,
- 00:37:12"Hey, good to see you."
- 00:37:16And they have no space here.
- 00:37:17We know as humans that when there's not a lot of distance,
- 00:37:20this is a weird measurement,
- 00:37:21but this is the measurement that matters
- 00:37:23for your perceived confidence.
- 00:37:25The distance between your ear lobe and your shoulder,
- 00:37:29the bigger that distance is, the more someone goes,
- 00:37:31"Oh, she or he looks really relaxed,"
- 00:37:33and that is more contagious.
- 00:37:35So when you walk into a room or hop on video,
- 00:37:37I want you to in a way,
- 00:37:39pretend like you're wearing a cape, right?
- 00:37:40Like shoulders down and back, head held up high.
- 00:37:44Don't crinkle your shoulders up.
- 00:37:45Don't carry a book in front of you really closely.
- 00:37:47That little tiny measurement actually really matters
- 00:37:50for perceived confidence.
- 00:37:52Oh my gosh, there's so many
- 00:37:53but those are the first two easiest ones.
- 00:37:55- So I love that and I'm gonna set this up,
- 00:37:58like you said to sometimes you need to give a little longer
- 00:38:00example to give you time to think.
- 00:38:03So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna give,
- 00:38:05I'm gonna ask you to give me feedback.
- 00:38:08- Oh, okay.
- 00:38:09- And either help coach me on a presentation
- 00:38:13or on an interaction.
- 00:38:14So I'm gonna give you a moment to get there,
- 00:38:16and you can be thinking while I'm saying something
- 00:38:18and I really value it, meaning I care so much
- 00:38:22and I know sometimes in the past I used to,
- 00:38:26there'd be a lot of people maybe wanna talk to me somewhere
- 00:38:28and I wouldn't give someone my full attention.
- 00:38:31And it wasn't that my heart wasn't there,
- 00:38:32but I learned I wasn't doing a good job at that.
- 00:38:34And so someone helped me to recognize that.
- 00:38:38And now I'm much better than I was before
- 00:38:40because of good feedback.
- 00:38:41So I'm telling you that to tell you I actually want it,
- 00:38:44- Okay? - In the presentation,
- 00:38:45you've seen me do or in interactions,
- 00:38:47how could I get better?
- 00:38:50- Well, really simply is I would be careful what you hold.
- 00:38:53And I know this is sounds really odd,
- 00:38:55but you don't use as many hand gestures as I do, right?
- 00:38:59That's, I don't mean to be as handsy as I am, right?
- 00:39:01I'm like, I'm very all over the place.
- 00:39:03But I, if you're holding a microphone,
- 00:39:05if you're holding a clicker, if you're holding a Bible,
- 00:39:08if you're holding something on stage,
- 00:39:10it already takes down the amount of gestures
- 00:39:12I want you to do, right?
- 00:39:13So I want your hands to be as free as possible gesture.
- 00:39:16And if you are holding anything,
- 00:39:17and I've seen you on stage a couple of different times,
- 00:39:19I notice the, even the natural gesturing goes down.
- 00:39:22So I would try wherever you possibly can
- 00:39:25if you have to hold the clicker, that's fine,
- 00:39:27but have a little table next to you
- 00:39:28where you can put it down.
- 00:39:29So for your most important points,
- 00:39:31you're using more gestures.
- 00:39:32When you're not holding anything, your gestures are amazing.
- 00:39:35When you're holding something,
- 00:39:36I think it anchors you, right?
- 00:39:38It anchors you to that mic or that object.
- 00:39:41And so I want your gestures as free as possible
- 00:39:43because it helps with comprehension.
- 00:39:45You are often dropping truth bombs.
- 00:39:47You know, you're on stage
- 00:39:49and you're sharing point after point after point
- 00:39:52and people are like, oh yeah, and that and that and that.
- 00:39:55We need gestures for comprehension.
- 00:39:57Research has found that gestures help aid the audience
- 00:40:00in understanding and breaking down points.
- 00:40:02So if you are only verbally delivering,
- 00:40:05it's so much load for the listener
- 00:40:07that they almost wanna see, like this is point one
- 00:40:10now we're talking about with point two, three,
- 00:40:12we're talking about phase one, phase two, phase three.
- 00:40:15That helps your listeners actually track
- 00:40:18all the different things that you're giving them.
- 00:40:20- That's super helpful.
- 00:40:22And a lot of people feel very nervous communicating,
- 00:40:26presentation, whatever.
- 00:40:29What do you say to yourself?
- 00:40:31Like, you get alluded to a little bit of it.
- 00:40:32Like this is valuable.
- 00:40:33This content's helped people.
- 00:40:34Let's say there's a newer leader that doesn't have a lot
- 00:40:37of data to prove that their content helps people.
- 00:40:41And so they're a little insecure going into it.
- 00:40:43They've watched your stuff,
- 00:40:44they kind of understand eye contact,
- 00:40:46they understand hand movements,
- 00:40:49they've researched their subject,
- 00:40:50they're coming thoroughly prepared,
- 00:40:52and yet they're still a little bit unsure of themselves.
- 00:40:54What would you say to internally to help them step up
- 00:40:58with real confidence to connect with people
- 00:41:01and engage them towards something that matters?
- 00:41:04- So it's a weird advice.
- 00:41:05So you can go the affirmation route.
- 00:41:07Those never really worked for me.
- 00:41:09Some people, they swear by affirmations.
- 00:41:11I don't know why I cannot get myself pumped up
- 00:41:13in affirmations.
- 00:41:14So instead I'm gonna give very weird advice,
- 00:41:16which is use blueprints.
- 00:41:19The only way, especially in the beginning
- 00:41:21or when I'm not sure if a content's gonna resonate,
- 00:41:22like for example, I give new presentations
- 00:41:24about once every year or two years with new content.
- 00:41:26Whew, I do not know if they're gonna work.
- 00:41:29I do not, they're not proven.
- 00:41:31So what I do is I blueprint out exactly what I wanna do.
- 00:41:34So I'm more focused on the blueprint
- 00:41:36and less focused on whatever chatter is going on in my head.
- 00:41:39So what I mean by this is, okay,
- 00:41:41what exactly are you gonna do in the first 10 seconds,
- 00:41:44non verbally of your presentation?
- 00:41:46So non verbally scripted, okay I'm gonna walk out on stage,
- 00:41:49I'm gonna go to that point right there on the stage,
- 00:41:51that little dot, okay?
- 00:41:53Then I'm gonna use two hand gestures.
- 00:41:54I'm gonna say, good morning everyone,
- 00:41:55I'm so happy to be here and I'm gonna touch my heart
- 00:41:57and then I'm gonna smile because I have a great story
- 00:41:59that I love,
- 00:42:01like that focusing on the points
- 00:42:03can help you get out of your emotional head
- 00:42:05and focus on doing the very practical things.
- 00:42:09It's also when I'm in a new presentation
- 00:42:11and I'm super nervous, I don't know if it's gonna work,
- 00:42:13I even script out where I'm gonna deliver on stage, right?
- 00:42:16Like, I'll look and say, okay, when I tell the story,
- 00:42:18I'm gonna walk over to left, I'm gonna deliver to this side,
- 00:42:21I'm gonna deliver to this side of the audience, okay?
- 00:42:22Then when I'm transitioning,
- 00:42:23I'm gonna walk over to this side
- 00:42:24and I'm gonna deliver to this side.
- 00:42:26That gets me out of my head
- 00:42:28because I'm, all I'm thinking about is my cues.
- 00:42:31I'm like, what are my cues, what are my cues?
- 00:42:32Like you have 96 to choose from the book.
- 00:42:34That gives you a map so that you're less focused
- 00:42:37on doubting yourself.
- 00:42:39- Okay, so I love every bit of that.
- 00:42:41I almost was gonna ask you to repeat the whole,
- 00:42:43the first go.
- 00:42:44Would you repeat the first three things?
- 00:42:45The hand gesture, the heart?
- 00:42:47- Yes. - Tell me again.
- 00:42:48- Yeah, so like, this is for my Ted talk.
- 00:42:51This is, I had to do this.
- 00:42:52Yeah, I was so nervous.
- 00:42:53So, okay, I'm gonna walk out,
- 00:42:54I'm gonna hit that dot on stage.
- 00:42:56So I want you to know exactly where you're gonna deliver.
- 00:42:58I also want you to remind yourself how fast are you walking?
- 00:43:00Are you a runner?
- 00:43:01Are you gonna dance out?
- 00:43:03Are you gonna slow walk out?
- 00:43:04Then you're gonna open palm.
- 00:43:06Oh, I'm so happy to be here.
- 00:43:08Then you're gonna touch your heart.
- 00:43:09I've been looking forward to this, I'm so honored.
- 00:43:12And then I'm gonna smile because I have a really good story.
- 00:43:13- That's what I was looking for.
- 00:43:14So open hands, touch your heart.
- 00:43:17You know, if people are listening, they're not seeing,
- 00:43:19I'm watching and I'm actually going,
- 00:43:20I wanna listen to this person.
- 00:43:22- Right, it works. - Open hands, touch heart,
- 00:43:24and then a big, a big smile.
- 00:43:26So I agree with you and I wanna push back and I'm gonna say,
- 00:43:30but Vanessa, that's so dang planned and scripted,
- 00:43:35it doesn't feel authentic to me.
- 00:43:37And yet you feel authentic to me.
- 00:43:39How do you do that?
- 00:43:40- Okay, actually what can happen
- 00:43:42when you're really nervous
- 00:43:43is your nerves get rid of your authenticity.
- 00:43:46'Cause all you're doing is focus on the nerves.
- 00:43:47I see this with really smart people, really,
- 00:43:49even presenters who have over rehearsed.
- 00:43:52I see this with a lot of new leaders.
- 00:43:53So a lot of new leaders, they don't have that proof yet,
- 00:43:56they don't have that confidence naturally.
- 00:43:57So they rehearse and rehearse, rehearse
- 00:43:59and rehearse, rehearse.
- 00:44:00And so they get on stage.
- 00:44:01So they're passionate, but they get on stage
- 00:44:03and they rehearse it so much
- 00:44:04they sound like this.
- 00:44:06Good morning today I wanna share a story
- 00:44:08that really matters to me
- 00:44:09and it's gonna have a lot of impact in your life,
- 00:44:12because they've rehearsed out all of the emotion,
- 00:44:15all of the passion.
- 00:44:16So actually adding the cues back is gonna help you
- 00:44:20look authentic because probably your nerves
- 00:44:23are shutting down some of the authenticity
- 00:44:25and that allows you to bring it back.
- 00:44:27Because I promise you that if you weren't nervous,
- 00:44:29you would be using gestures, you would be smiling.
- 00:44:32But we have to combat what those nerves do,
- 00:44:34which is strip us of our charisma.
- 00:44:36- Well, I wanna just tell you thank you
- 00:44:38because in our interactions, every talk I've heard you give
- 00:44:42at the Global Leadership Summit on the big stage
- 00:44:44and then in other events it's been super, super helpful.
- 00:44:48My wife would rather listen to you talk any day than me.
- 00:44:52She's like, she's a big, big fan.
- 00:44:54- I love her.
- 00:44:55- And we love celebrating just the blessings
- 00:44:58of your little girl that's on the way soon
- 00:45:01and it's really, really exciting.
- 00:45:03And there'll be some people in our leadership community
- 00:45:06that are just now getting to know you.
- 00:45:08If they wanna learn more,
- 00:45:10what do you have to offer that can help them
- 00:45:12to continue to grow?
- 00:45:14- I would love and be honored to help you if you want
- 00:45:16to really dive into communication, interpersonal skills.
- 00:45:20You can find me at scienceofpeople.com.
- 00:45:22Obviously my books Cues and Captivate
- 00:45:24are good starting place.
- 00:45:25If you wanna get master level,
- 00:45:27we recommend a lot of our leaders to take people school.
- 00:45:30It's the only advanced communication course
- 00:45:33for high achievers.
- 00:45:34So we really focus on leaders.
- 00:45:35It's all online, it's 12 skills,
- 00:45:38the 12 science-based skills
- 00:45:39I wish I had learned to communicate better.
- 00:45:42And we have live office hours, I answer questions,
- 00:45:44we workshop your elevator pitches,
- 00:45:46we workshop your LinkedIn profiles.
- 00:45:48It's really fun.
- 00:45:49So if you wanna take that next step,
- 00:45:50I would love to have you.
- 00:45:52- Love it.
- 00:45:53So gimme one more piece of advice
- 00:45:54and then we're gonna close this out together.
- 00:45:56So what I typically do at the end is I will tell people,
- 00:46:01I'll remind them to get the leader guide
- 00:46:03and the reason is because there really is,
- 00:46:05our team works really hard to put a lot of valuable content
- 00:46:07and then this gives them a framework to discuss
- 00:46:10with their team.
- 00:46:11And then I'll tell 'em to go to,
- 00:46:12I'm actually doing it right now.
- 00:46:12So just and I'll tell 'em
- 00:46:14to go to life.church/leadershippodcast
- 00:46:16to get the leader guide
- 00:46:17and then I will invite them to share on social media
- 00:46:21and I'll tell 'em to tag you, tag me.
- 00:46:23And then I always sign off with a little,
- 00:46:25I'll usually say something like, be yourself.
- 00:46:29Remember to be yourself because people rather follow leader
- 00:46:31always real than over one who is always right.
- 00:46:34Or I'll say work on your leadership.
- 00:46:35Let's grow on your leadership because everyone wins
- 00:46:38when the leader gets better.
- 00:46:39What do I need to do today?
- 00:46:40Let's close it out better.
- 00:46:41Do I need hand gestures?
- 00:46:43Do I need something different?
- 00:46:44Help me make it better.
- 00:46:45- Remember, you're a force for good
- 00:46:47in every interaction you have.
- 00:46:49- So today I'm gonna say thank you Vanessa,
- 00:46:52for being a big part.
- 00:46:53If this podcast is helpful to you,
- 00:46:56share it with other people and remember, how does it go?
- 00:46:59You're a force for good.
- 00:47:01- In every interaction you have.
- 00:47:02- In every interaction you have.
- 00:47:04So walk into a room if the mood is down,
- 00:47:08lift the mood with a genuine care for people.
- 00:47:11Remember that you're a leader, you have influence.
- 00:47:14You can make a difference in this world.
- 00:47:15You can bring great people together to do great things,
- 00:47:19to honor God, to make organizations better,
- 00:47:22to make a difference in people's lives.
- 00:47:24Remember, you're a force for good
- 00:47:26in every interaction you have.
- 00:47:28Now go out and do what great leaders do.
- 00:47:30Is that better?
- 00:47:31- I love it.
- 00:47:32It's perfect, I love it
- 00:47:33- Thank you so much and be sure and follow up.
- 00:47:36Get all you can for Vanessa
- 00:47:38and we see you next time
- 00:47:40on the Craig Groeschel Leadership podcast.
- 00:47:41- Bye everyone.
- 00:47:43(bright music)
- Leadership
- Charisma
- Influence
- Communication
- Vanessa Van Edwards
- Body Language
- Authenticity
- Positivity
- Team Dynamics
- Social Interaction