Don't Talk to the Police

00:46:38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

Zusammenfassung

TLDRIn this law school classroom experience, a professor ardently emphasizes the importance of the Fifth Amendment, which protects individuals from being forced to incriminate themselves in criminal cases. He passionately advocates for never talking to the police without legal representation, regardless of one's innocence or intentions. Using real crime cases and historical examples, he illustrates how innocent individuals have been wrongfully convicted due to self-incrimination or misrecollection during police interrogations. The professor underscores that even truthful statements can be twisted if the police misremember or misconstrue them, making silence the safest route. He challenges the idea that speaking to police can ever be helpful, discussing the complexity of U.S. laws and the daunting vastness of regulations that make it almost impossible to know what might unintentionally incriminate someone. Finally, he praises the creators of the Bill of Rights while introducing a police officer to echo his warnings from law enforcement's perspective, solidifying his stance against talking to police without an attorney.

Mitbringsel

  • 🔑 Always assert your Fifth Amendment rights; do not speak to the police without legal representation.
  • 📜 The Fifth Amendment protects against self-incrimination, crucial for maintaining one's rights.
  • 🚨 Speaking to police rarely helps your case; it often provides opportunities for self-incrimination.
  • ✔️ Even innocuous or truthful statements can become incriminating due to police misinterpretation.
  • ⚖️ Legal counsel is vital due to the complexity of law and potential legal pitfalls.
  • 🧠 Innocent people can make mistakes under pressure, potentially leading to wrongful convictions.
  • 🕵️‍♂️ Interrogations are designed to elicit confessions, often to the detriment of the suspect.
  • 📊 Federal laws and the U.S. Code are complex, making it easy to unknowingly implicate oneself.
  • 🎙️ Police may misremember or misconstrue statements, turning innocuous remarks into damaging evidence.
  • 📉 The odds are against the individual during police questioning, emphasizing the importance of silence.

Zeitleiste

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    A law school professor expresses pride in the Fifth Amendment and explains why one should never talk to police officers, citing cases where individuals have been wrongfully convicted because of their statements to police.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    The professor discusses the complexity of modern federal criminal law which makes it difficult to avoid incriminating oneself, describing how even possessing a lobster can be a federal offense under certain conditions.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    He recounts receiving a call from a former student who was approached by the IRS for questioning, advising him not to speak without immunity, emphasizing that talking to the police can't help.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    The professor reiterates that you cannot talk your way out of getting arrested, explaining that anything you say to the police can be used against you but not for you in court.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    He discusses the issue of admitting guilt, warning that even innocent people may make incriminating statements or lie inadvertently, which can be used against them.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Emphasizing the potential for wrongful convictions, he explains how innocent statements can be interpreted as motive or opportunity, leading to convictions based on indirect evidence.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    The professor warns that police officers may misremember or lie about statements, increasing the risk of an innocent person being convicted.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    He uses examples of well-known cases to illustrate how even truthful statements can become self-incriminating if the police possess any contradictory evidence.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:46:38

    Finally, a police officer corroborates the professor's claims, acknowledging that people often incriminate themselves in interviews and highlighting that people inherently want to communicate, which officers use to their advantage.

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Mind Map

Mind Map

Häufig gestellte Fragen

  • What is the main message of the law professor's lecture?

    The law professor stresses that one should never talk to the police without legal counsel, as it can lead to self-incrimination even if the person is innocent.

  • Why is the Fifth Amendment important according to the speaker?

    The Fifth Amendment protects individuals from being compelled to be witnesses against themselves in criminal cases, safeguarding against self-incrimination.

  • What risks arise from speaking to the police without an attorney?

    Speaking to the police can result in self-incrimination, misrecollection of statements being used against you, and unintentionally providing the police with information that may be misconstrued or harmful.

  • Can truthful information given to the police be harmful?

    Yes, even truthful information can be harmful if it is later contradicted by unreliable or mistaken evidence, or if it is misremembered by law enforcement.

  • Why does the professor mention historical legal cases?

    To illustrate how innocent people can be wrongfully convicted due to false confessions or misinterpreted statements.

  • What is the role of the police officer speaking at the end of the lecture?

    The police officer supports the professor’s points about the risks of speaking to the police and explains the tactics used by police during interrogations.

  • How does the law professor view newspaper articles about individuals talking to the police?

    The professor views these articles as cautionary tales that demonstrate the pitfalls and misconceptions about speaking to law enforcement.

  • Why does the professor emphasize not talking to the police loudly and proudly?

    He believes strongly in the protection the Fifth Amendment offers and wants to ensure individuals understand the potential consequences of speaking to law enforcement without protection.

  • How does the complexity of federal law affect interactions with law enforcement?

    The complexity and vastness of federal law make it difficult for individuals to know if they might unintentionally incriminate themselves.

  • What does the speaker suggest as the best response to police inquiries?

    The speaker suggests asserting one’s Fifth Amendment rights and declining to speak with police without legal counsel.

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Untertitel
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Automatisches Blättern:
  • 00:00:00
    I was invited to give you a taste of a
  • 00:00:03
    typical law school classroom experience
  • 00:00:04
    here today and I thought I would take
  • 00:00:06
    advantage of this opportunity to do
  • 00:00:07
    something guys it's been on my mind for
  • 00:00:08
    a while to stand up and to proudly say
  • 00:00:11
    god Bless America god bless the Bill of
  • 00:00:13
    Rights and thank God for the fifth
  • 00:00:14
    amendment I'm not ashamed to say I'm
  • 00:00:16
    proud of the fifth amendment and I'm not
  • 00:00:18
    I'm proud to admit on camera and on the
  • 00:00:20
    internet that I will never talk to any
  • 00:00:21
    police officer under any circumstances
  • 00:00:23
    with all due respect sir I'm doing
  • 00:00:27
    something really extraordinary here
  • 00:00:28
    today something you'll almost never see
  • 00:00:29
    another law professor do as long as you
  • 00:00:31
    live I'm really putting myself on the
  • 00:00:33
    spot here at my even this was my idea by
  • 00:00:35
    my invitation I have given up half of my
  • 00:00:37
    time approximately I'm giving equal time
  • 00:00:39
    and the last word to an expert who
  • 00:00:41
    really knows something about what I'll
  • 00:00:42
    be talking about so I'm opening myself
  • 00:00:43
    up to the possibility that he will
  • 00:00:44
    contradict me I was a criminal defense
  • 00:00:47
    attorney when I was in private practice
  • 00:00:48
    so I wanna make sure in fairness to you
  • 00:00:50
    if I misleading you were giving you a
  • 00:00:51
    slanted or one-sided presentation you'll
  • 00:00:54
    be able to get the last word from
  • 00:00:55
    somebody else I'm sure he'll have a lot
  • 00:00:56
    to teach all of us including myself the
  • 00:00:59
    Fifth Amendment to the United States
  • 00:01:00
    Constitution provides no person shall be
  • 00:01:02
    compelled in any criminal case to be a
  • 00:01:04
    witness against himself and this
  • 00:01:07
    unfortunate amendment has gotten a bad
  • 00:01:08
    rep in in recent times much of it
  • 00:01:11
    tragically and unnecessarily through as
  • 00:01:13
    you may have heard the headlines let me
  • 00:01:17
    read you something that was taken out of
  • 00:01:18
    the newspaper this morning and I want
  • 00:01:20
    you to listen to it closely and I'm
  • 00:01:21
    giving you heads up
  • 00:01:21
    I'm warning you in advance which is not
  • 00:01:23
    fair to you not fair to me but I'm
  • 00:01:25
    giving you a head I'm giving you a
  • 00:01:26
    warning that I'll be quizzing you on
  • 00:01:27
    this in just a few minutes this will
  • 00:01:29
    test your aptitude for legal study and
  • 00:01:31
    legal practice listen closely it won't
  • 00:01:32
    take long
  • 00:01:33
    last night agents of the Norfolk Police
  • 00:01:36
    Department found three victims of an
  • 00:01:38
    apparent murder dead in an apartment in
  • 00:01:39
    the East ocean view area the apparent
  • 00:01:41
    victims of a gangland-style slaying and
  • 00:01:43
    possibly the victims of gang-related
  • 00:01:45
    violence the police are investigating
  • 00:01:47
    this as a possible murder and suicide
  • 00:01:48
    but right now suspect that the three
  • 00:01:50
    were all killed by the same individual
  • 00:01:52
    no suspects have yet been identified in
  • 00:01:54
    the slain but veteran police detective
  • 00:01:56
    George Brooke has confirmed the police
  • 00:01:58
    are following up on evidence pointing to
  • 00:02:00
    the possible involvement of an off-duty
  • 00:02:01
    naval officer as the perpetrator the
  • 00:02:04
    bodies which were found by the apartment
  • 00:02:05
    manager at about 8 o'clock in the
  • 00:02:06
    morning appeared to have been slain
  • 00:02:08
    sometime earlier in the same evening
  • 00:02:09
    probably sometime between midnight and
  • 00:02:11
    2:00 o'clock in the morning
  • 00:02:13
    that's it those are all the facts I'll
  • 00:02:15
    ask you to remember and it won't be for
  • 00:02:17
    very long either let's see how well you
  • 00:02:18
    do I'll be quizzing you in just a few
  • 00:02:19
    minutes now here's the easiest question
  • 00:02:22
    you'll ever get from a client in all the
  • 00:02:24
    days of your life question hey the
  • 00:02:26
    police are here they want to talk to me
  • 00:02:28
    what should I do
  • 00:02:29
    well I could give you my answer to that
  • 00:02:31
    question in case you haven't already
  • 00:02:32
    guessed it but why don't we go to a real
  • 00:02:34
    expert
  • 00:02:34
    just as Robert Jackson a prosecutors
  • 00:02:37
    prosecutor like me he began his private
  • 00:02:39
    practice in Buffalo New York
  • 00:02:41
    years before I did and after that he
  • 00:02:42
    served as general counsel for the Bureau
  • 00:02:44
    of Internal Revenue
  • 00:02:44
    the US Department of Treasury the
  • 00:02:46
    securing the Exchange Commission
  • 00:02:47
    Assistant US Attorney General for the
  • 00:02:49
    tax division later the Solicitor General
  • 00:02:51
    and the Attorney General of the United
  • 00:02:52
    States and then the chief he was
  • 00:02:54
    prosecuted for the Nuremberg trials
  • 00:02:55
    that's an impressive resume years later
  • 00:02:58
    when he was a justice on the Supreme
  • 00:02:59
    Court justice Jackson stated quote any
  • 00:03:02
    lawyer worth his salt today we would say
  • 00:03:04
    his or her will tell the suspect his
  • 00:03:07
    client in no uncertain terms to make no
  • 00:03:10
    statement to the police under any
  • 00:03:11
    circumstances there's the title of my
  • 00:03:13
    talk I'm here to explain you the
  • 00:03:15
    surprising and somewhat counterintuitive
  • 00:03:16
    and admittedly unlikely reasons why
  • 00:03:18
    justice Jackson was right I'm reminded
  • 00:03:22
    of this because I'm amazed we're all
  • 00:03:23
    amazed by the frequency with which we
  • 00:03:25
    see newspaper articles coming on all the
  • 00:03:27
    time from people who really ought to
  • 00:03:28
    know better who stay well I'll talk to
  • 00:03:30
    the police I mean after all I'm I'm a
  • 00:03:32
    senator I'm AJ Simpson I'm I'm an
  • 00:03:36
    experienced highly polished individual
  • 00:03:37
    eigvals got a lot of experience with
  • 00:03:38
    public relations even criminal defense
  • 00:03:40
    attorneys there was a local news story
  • 00:03:41
    here in the virginian-pilot
  • 00:03:43
    just a couple of months ago about
  • 00:03:44
    experienced criminal defense lawyer who
  • 00:03:46
    ended up getting convicted of criminal
  • 00:03:48
    assault because he talked to the police
  • 00:03:50
    he was accused of having assaulted
  • 00:03:52
    another attorney in the hallway there
  • 00:03:54
    were no other witnesses to this a woman
  • 00:03:56
    said that he grabbed her by the throat
  • 00:03:57
    during an argument over a case he denied
  • 00:03:59
    it
  • 00:03:59
    at trial was his word against hers he
  • 00:04:02
    said I did not even touch her but
  • 00:04:04
    unfortunately for him when the police
  • 00:04:06
    had approached him earlier and said
  • 00:04:07
    would you be willing to answer some
  • 00:04:08
    questions he said sure why not I'm a I'm
  • 00:04:10
    an attorney I'm a criminal defense
  • 00:04:11
    attorney I'm savvy I'm sophisticated
  • 00:04:13
    I've got oratorical prowess I'm I'm
  • 00:04:15
    accustomed to dealing with the police by
  • 00:04:16
    all means
  • 00:04:17
    and then there was a conversation that
  • 00:04:18
    was not recorded when the case went to
  • 00:04:20
    trial it was no longer his word against
  • 00:04:22
    hers because when he testified the trial
  • 00:04:24
    I never touched her the officer took to
  • 00:04:25
    the stand and testified well when I met
  • 00:04:27
    with
  • 00:04:27
    he said he did put his hand on her
  • 00:04:29
    throat but just as a joke then he had to
  • 00:04:31
    take the stand again and say that's not
  • 00:04:32
    true I never said that I never admitted
  • 00:04:34
    to you that I now it's his word against
  • 00:04:35
    two people who's telling the truth we'll
  • 00:04:37
    never know for sure but he was found
  • 00:04:38
    guilty now here's part of the problem
  • 00:04:42
    the heart of the problem as justice
  • 00:04:44
    breyer on the US Supreme Court explained
  • 00:04:46
    in 1998 is quote the complexity of
  • 00:04:48
    modern federal criminal law codified in
  • 00:04:50
    several thousand sections of the United
  • 00:04:52
    States Code and the virtually infinite
  • 00:04:53
    variety of factual circumstances that
  • 00:04:56
    might trigger an investigation into a
  • 00:04:57
    possible violation of the law make it
  • 00:04:59
    difficult for anyone to know in advance
  • 00:05:01
    just when a particular substr statements
  • 00:05:04
    might later appear to a prosecutor to be
  • 00:05:06
    relevant to some investigation one
  • 00:05:09
    expert on criminal law recently noted
  • 00:05:11
    that estimates of the current size of
  • 00:05:13
    the body of federal criminal law vary
  • 00:05:14
    although it has been reported that the
  • 00:05:16
    Congressional Research Service can no
  • 00:05:17
    longer even count the current number of
  • 00:05:19
    federal crimes that's right even the
  • 00:05:21
    federal government has lost count
  • 00:05:22
    these laws are scheduled over all 50
  • 00:05:24
    pages of the US Code encompassing
  • 00:05:25
    roughly 27,000 pages worse yet these
  • 00:05:28
    statutes often incorporate by reference
  • 00:05:30
    for the provisions of administrative
  • 00:05:32
    regulations estimates of how many such
  • 00:05:34
    regulations exist are even less well
  • 00:05:36
    settled although the ABA thinks there
  • 00:05:38
    may be nearly 10,000 here's one of those
  • 00:05:40
    10,000 federal criminal statutes on the
  • 00:05:42
    book that you probably never heard about
  • 00:05:44
    it's called the Lacey Act 16 USC section
  • 00:05:46
    33 70 says it's a federal offense for
  • 00:05:49
    any person to import export transport
  • 00:05:51
    sell receive acquire or purchase any
  • 00:05:53
    fish or wildlife or plant taken
  • 00:05:56
    possessed transported or sold in the
  • 00:05:58
    violation of any law treaty or
  • 00:06:00
    regulation of the United States or any
  • 00:06:03
    Indian tribal law or any state or any
  • 00:06:05
    foreign law people have been convicted
  • 00:06:07
    in federal court for violating the
  • 00:06:09
    statute because they brought back a bony
  • 00:06:10
    fish from Honduras not knowing that
  • 00:06:12
    Honduran law not American but Honduran
  • 00:06:14
    law forbade the possession of the bony
  • 00:06:15
    fish people have been convicted under
  • 00:06:17
    the lists law because they were found in
  • 00:06:18
    possession of a what's called a short
  • 00:06:19
    Lobster elapsed have is under a certain
  • 00:06:21
    size some states prevent you from
  • 00:06:23
    possessing the lobster if he's under a
  • 00:06:24
    certain length it doesn't matter if he's
  • 00:06:26
    dead or alive it doesn't matter if you
  • 00:06:27
    killed it or if you died of natural
  • 00:06:28
    causes it doesn't even matter if you
  • 00:06:29
    acted in self-defense
  • 00:06:30
    did you know that there do now it can be
  • 00:06:33
    a federal offense to be in possession of
  • 00:06:34
    a lobster admit it raise you hand if you
  • 00:06:36
    did not know bad there's the problem
  • 00:06:38
    and that's only one of 10,000 different
  • 00:06:40
    ways you know the government gets pretty
  • 00:06:42
    upset when people like me instructs the
  • 00:06:43
    client people like me and justice
  • 00:06:45
    Jackson don't talk to the police don't
  • 00:06:47
    answer any questions but you know they
  • 00:06:48
    can't have it both ways
  • 00:06:49
    you people you've got 10,000 different
  • 00:06:51
    ways of convicting us good for you but
  • 00:06:53
    you know with the bitter comes to the
  • 00:06:55
    sweet with the good comes to the band
  • 00:06:56
    that's ten thousand different ways my
  • 00:06:57
    client might unknowingly implicate
  • 00:06:59
    himself in some sort of a criminal
  • 00:07:00
    transaction one of the reasons I decided
  • 00:07:01
    to give this talk I recently received a
  • 00:07:03
    phone call from a former student of mine
  • 00:07:04
    a regional law school graduate who may
  • 00:07:06
    be watching this online we're putting it
  • 00:07:08
    on the Internet and he told me hey I've
  • 00:07:10
    been approached by the Internal Revenue
  • 00:07:11
    Service they want to ask me a couple of
  • 00:07:12
    questions they asked if I don't be
  • 00:07:13
    willing to but they say that I'm not a
  • 00:07:16
    suspect and I know I'm my heart I don't
  • 00:07:17
    think I've done anything wrong and
  • 00:07:18
    violation of the Internal Revenue
  • 00:07:19
    Service provisions lord have mercy
  • 00:07:22
    there's no man on earth those no there's
  • 00:07:24
    no woman in this country who can
  • 00:07:26
    honestly say with complete confidence I
  • 00:07:27
    know I have never violated any provision
  • 00:07:28
    of the Internal Revenue Code he said but
  • 00:07:30
    but they say I'm not a suspect and I
  • 00:07:32
    know I've done nothing wrong it's okay
  • 00:07:33
    if I talk to him I said no no you tell
  • 00:07:35
    them you will not talk to them without
  • 00:07:36
    immunity I explained to him why that was
  • 00:07:39
    true and they never he never heard from
  • 00:07:41
    them again okay why you should never
  • 00:07:44
    talk to the police let me just spell it
  • 00:07:45
    out for you let me make it plain to all
  • 00:07:46
    of you these are the top 10 reasons I I
  • 00:07:48
    don't actually really you lie to you I
  • 00:07:49
    don't really have ten I don't I'm for
  • 00:07:51
    ten but I've got time for eight and
  • 00:07:52
    that'll be close enough number one and
  • 00:07:55
    this really ought to be good enough
  • 00:07:56
    contrary to what you laymen
  • 00:07:57
    instinctively naturally supposed it can
  • 00:07:59
    not help there is no way it can help you
  • 00:08:02
    plenty of folks think that I can and
  • 00:08:04
    they're always wrong you cannot talk
  • 00:08:05
    your way out of getting arrested
  • 00:08:06
    officer Brooke you've interviewed
  • 00:08:08
    thousands of criminal suspects have you
  • 00:08:10
    ever how many times in your experience
  • 00:08:11
    have you approached someone asked if you
  • 00:08:13
    could ask them some questions because
  • 00:08:14
    prior to the interview you had some
  • 00:08:15
    evidence pointing to as possible guilt
  • 00:08:17
    and because of the extraordinary
  • 00:08:18
    persuasiveness and eloquence with which
  • 00:08:20
    he articulated his innocence you setup
  • 00:08:22
    sorry nevermind bank all my bad I won't
  • 00:08:24
    and you he talked you out of arresting
  • 00:08:26
    him never never it never happens I've
  • 00:08:30
    often asked other criminal defense
  • 00:08:31
    attorneys and all of your experience
  • 00:08:32
    have you ever once hit a case where you
  • 00:08:34
    looked back in hindsight and said thank
  • 00:08:35
    God my client talked to the police they
  • 00:08:37
    laugh at me they laugh at me they say
  • 00:08:38
    you've got to be kidding me you cannot
  • 00:08:40
    help you you can't talk your way of
  • 00:08:41
    getting arrested and contrary to what
  • 00:08:43
    you might suppose if you never said to
  • 00:08:44
    the Rules of Evidence
  • 00:08:45
    what you tell the police even if it's
  • 00:08:46
    exculpatory cannot be used to help you a
  • 00:08:49
    trial because it's what we call hearsay
  • 00:08:51
    under
  • 00:08:51
    Rules of Evidence specifically rule 801
  • 00:08:53
    d-2 a if you want to look it up
  • 00:08:55
    everything you tell the police as the
  • 00:08:57
    saying goes can and will be used against
  • 00:08:59
    you but it cannot be used for you from
  • 00:09:00
    time to time
  • 00:09:01
    I've known attorneys who tried to call
  • 00:09:03
    to the stand a police officer and say
  • 00:09:04
    officer would you tell the jury what my
  • 00:09:06
    client told you because what my client
  • 00:09:08
    told him was actually good for my case
  • 00:09:09
    if you tried that at trial the
  • 00:09:10
    prosecutor will object that is hearsay
  • 00:09:12
    and the judge will agree the police will
  • 00:09:13
    not be allowed and your request to tell
  • 00:09:16
    the jury what your client told him no
  • 00:09:17
    matter how good it may be for your case
  • 00:09:18
    it cannot help and that ought to be good
  • 00:09:21
    enough reason that ought to be reason
  • 00:09:22
    enough to keep your mouth shut but if
  • 00:09:26
    you're not persuaded let me go talk
  • 00:09:27
    about a couple of others number two
  • 00:09:28
    obviously one of the most obvious if
  • 00:09:30
    your client is guilty as many of them
  • 00:09:33
    are but even if he's not even if he's
  • 00:09:35
    innocent he may well admit his guilt
  • 00:09:37
    with no benefit in return now of course
  • 00:09:40
    many of you are thinking to yourself
  • 00:09:41
    what's so wrong about that I mean
  • 00:09:43
    shouldn't guilty people be confessing
  • 00:09:45
    confessions good for the soul it's good
  • 00:09:47
    for law enforcement it's good for the
  • 00:09:48
    prisons yes yeah sure all those things
  • 00:09:50
    are true and liked the rest of you if I
  • 00:09:52
    or anyone close to me is ever the victim
  • 00:09:54
    of some sort of a serious crime I hope
  • 00:09:55
    they get the right guy I hope they
  • 00:09:57
    convict him I hope they put him away we
  • 00:09:58
    all feel that way
  • 00:09:59
    hey but what's for the rush friends you
  • 00:10:01
    don't go to admit your guilt the first
  • 00:10:02
    time they come by to meet with you in
  • 00:10:04
    federal court 84-68 II 6% of all
  • 00:10:07
    defendants plead guilty at some point
  • 00:10:08
    before trial if your client is guilty
  • 00:10:10
    and really ought to punish and really
  • 00:10:11
    gotta have a go through some sort of a
  • 00:10:13
    cleansing act of contrition fess up and
  • 00:10:15
    admit his guilt
  • 00:10:16
    there'll be plenty of time to do that
  • 00:10:17
    they almost always do no need to rush no
  • 00:10:19
    need to tell the police something wait
  • 00:10:21
    and see if we perhaps your client can't
  • 00:10:23
    work out some sort of an arrangement
  • 00:10:24
    where maybe he'll make some sort of
  • 00:10:26
    compensation to the alleged victim or
  • 00:10:27
    maybe he'll be able to get some sort of
  • 00:10:29
    a discount in his sentence and he'll be
  • 00:10:30
    able to treat it'll be treated fairly
  • 00:10:32
    then like everybody else who had the
  • 00:10:33
    benefit of a good lawyer who said please
  • 00:10:35
    do not talk to the police
  • 00:10:36
    and don't forget by the way even if even
  • 00:10:39
    if your client only admits things that
  • 00:10:42
    the police already knew you might think
  • 00:10:44
    well what harm can it do he says he
  • 00:10:45
    wants to talk to the police
  • 00:10:46
    all he wants to do is admit that he was
  • 00:10:47
    there but the cops know that he was
  • 00:10:49
    there alright go ahead and tell him
  • 00:10:50
    well how can I hurt it might hurt if the
  • 00:10:51
    police officer becomes transferred to
  • 00:10:53
    Minnesota or deceased or injured or
  • 00:10:55
    comatose or cannot be located by the
  • 00:10:56
    time of trial the case will be dismissed
  • 00:10:58
    if there's no confession but if your
  • 00:10:59
    client admits to things that's
  • 00:11:01
    confession is freely admissible against
  • 00:11:03
    him it can be a basis for getting him
  • 00:11:04
    convicted all
  • 00:11:05
    himself Senator Larry Craig can explain
  • 00:11:07
    all this to you the Innocence Project of
  • 00:11:12
    the United States has confirmed that in
  • 00:11:15
    more than 25% of all the cases where an
  • 00:11:17
    innocent man was convicted and then
  • 00:11:19
    later released from prison after he was
  • 00:11:21
    exonerated by DNA of us and more than a
  • 00:11:22
    quarter of those cases these innocent
  • 00:11:24
    people people we know to be innocent
  • 00:11:25
    made incriminated statements delivered
  • 00:11:27
    outright confessions or pled guilty how
  • 00:11:30
    do they do that he'll tell us all about
  • 00:11:31
    it I'm trust here's a couple of famous
  • 00:11:34
    examples you can just ask them you don't
  • 00:11:35
    have to take my word for it they are on
  • 00:11:37
    the left with Eddie Joe Lloyd he was
  • 00:11:38
    convicted in 1984 of the murder of a 16
  • 00:11:41
    year old girl in Detroit after he wrote
  • 00:11:43
    to police with suggestions on how to
  • 00:11:44
    solve arias recent crimes during several
  • 00:11:46
    interviews police fed details of the
  • 00:11:48
    crime to mr. Lloyd who was mentally ill
  • 00:11:50
    and they lied to him and convinced to
  • 00:11:52
    this mentally ill man that by confessing
  • 00:11:54
    he might help them smoke out the real
  • 00:11:56
    killer he later signed a confession it
  • 00:11:58
    gave a tape-recorded statement the jury
  • 00:12:00
    delivered in less than one hour before
  • 00:12:01
    convicting him on the basis of this
  • 00:12:02
    confession there was no other
  • 00:12:03
    substantial evidence against him the
  • 00:12:05
    judge said I'd hang you if I could but
  • 00:12:07
    the death penalty was not available in
  • 00:12:08
    Michigan at the time but after almost
  • 00:12:10
    two decades in prison he was released
  • 00:12:12
    after DNA evidence proved that this man
  • 00:12:14
    was innocent and that falsely committed
  • 00:12:15
    confessed to a crime that he did not
  • 00:12:16
    commit on the right as Earl Washington
  • 00:12:18
    who was released from prison just a few
  • 00:12:21
    years ago here in Virginia after
  • 00:12:22
    spending 18 years behind bars for a cook
  • 00:12:25
    after being committed of a rape and a
  • 00:12:26
    murder that we now know he did not
  • 00:12:27
    commit after having been exonerated by
  • 00:12:29
    DNA evidence but be this man mr.
  • 00:12:31
    Washington who was in fact confirmed to
  • 00:12:33
    be mentally [ __ ] was able to confess
  • 00:12:36
    to several crimes at the request of the
  • 00:12:37
    police some of which we know he could
  • 00:12:39
    not have committed that's the problem
  • 00:12:42
    some of you are thinking to yourself
  • 00:12:44
    well none of this concerns me because
  • 00:12:45
    I'm not guilty of anything and I never
  • 00:12:47
    will be and I will never represent
  • 00:12:48
    people who do okay let's talk to you
  • 00:12:52
    people you innocent folks those of you
  • 00:12:54
    who have never committed a crime and
  • 00:12:55
    never will in none of your clients will
  • 00:12:56
    either and no and you wouldn't go out
  • 00:12:58
    with a girl who did fine you better not
  • 00:13:00
    talk to the police either okay because
  • 00:13:02
    number three well put the guilty behind
  • 00:13:04
    us forget about them let's talk about
  • 00:13:06
    innocent people number three even if
  • 00:13:07
    your client is innocent and he denies
  • 00:13:09
    his guilt and almost entirely tells the
  • 00:13:11
    truth odds are good he will easily get
  • 00:13:13
    carried away and tell some little lie or
  • 00:13:15
    make some little mistake that will hang
  • 00:13:16
    him this is human nature you get
  • 00:13:19
    in there it's a stressful situation
  • 00:13:20
    imagine a perfectly innocent client the
  • 00:13:22
    police say he's been guilty of a murder
  • 00:13:23
    he's totally innocent as innocent as any
  • 00:13:25
    one of us so he goes in there he meets
  • 00:13:26
    with the police he says I don't know
  • 00:13:27
    what you're talking about
  • 00:13:28
    I was nowhere near there I I I didn't
  • 00:13:30
    kill him I've never killed anybody I
  • 00:13:31
    don't have a gun I've never had a gun
  • 00:13:32
    I've never touched a gun in my life I
  • 00:13:33
    was nowhere near Virginia Beach that
  • 00:13:35
    like then let naik up and that last line
  • 00:13:37
    was a lie he went over the top he was
  • 00:13:39
    getting carried away he guided into this
  • 00:13:40
    groove he started seeing all kinds of
  • 00:13:41
    things almost all of them true that he
  • 00:13:43
    knew would tend to exculpate himself
  • 00:13:45
    then he got carried away he just said
  • 00:13:47
    one thing that wasn't true and
  • 00:13:48
    unfortunately for him they can prove
  • 00:13:49
    that it wasn't true he may be convicted
  • 00:13:51
    on that basis alone but let's say to you
  • 00:13:53
    let's say well let's not a problem I'll
  • 00:13:54
    tell my client only to tell the truth
  • 00:13:56
    I've met with him I know he won't lie to
  • 00:13:57
    the police he won't make any mistakes
  • 00:13:58
    okay that's still no guarantee you won't
  • 00:14:00
    be getting into trouble because even if
  • 00:14:01
    your client is innocent and only tells
  • 00:14:03
    the truth and doesn't say anything that
  • 00:14:06
    is false now already would mind you were
  • 00:14:07
    pretty well nigh into Fantasyland the
  • 00:14:10
    odds of this being anybody being able to
  • 00:14:11
    pull this off are really quite slim no
  • 00:14:12
    matter how innocent they may be but just
  • 00:14:14
    do the same let's pretend let's assume
  • 00:14:16
    he gives the police nothing but the
  • 00:14:17
    truth and he is totally innocent he will
  • 00:14:18
    always give the police some information
  • 00:14:20
    that can be used to help convict him
  • 00:14:21
    always for example suppose you tell this
  • 00:14:25
    to the police here's what your client
  • 00:14:26
    tells to the police in his denial of
  • 00:14:28
    guilt I don't know what you're talking
  • 00:14:29
    about I would I didn't kill Jones I
  • 00:14:30
    don't know who did I wasn't anywhere
  • 00:14:32
    near that place I don't have a gun I've
  • 00:14:33
    never owned a gun in my life I don't
  • 00:14:34
    even know how to use a gun yeah sure I
  • 00:14:36
    never like the guy but who did I
  • 00:14:37
    wouldn't kill him I've never heard
  • 00:14:38
    anybody in my life and I would never do
  • 00:14:39
    such a thing let's suppose every word of
  • 00:14:41
    that is true 100% of it is true what
  • 00:14:43
    will the jury hear at trial officer
  • 00:14:45
    broke was there anything about this your
  • 00:14:47
    interrogation your interview with the
  • 00:14:48
    suspect that made you concerned that he
  • 00:14:50
    might be the right one yes there was he
  • 00:14:51
    confessed to me that he never liked the
  • 00:14:53
    guy and then the prosecutor put that up
  • 00:14:55
    in big letters and he'll say ladies and
  • 00:14:56
    gentle degree it's pretty clear that
  • 00:14:57
    we've got the right guy here we've
  • 00:14:58
    proven that he was in Virginia Beach
  • 00:15:00
    that night that's opportunity and
  • 00:15:01
    remember officer brouk admitted that
  • 00:15:03
    after extended question he was finally
  • 00:15:04
    able to get the defendant to admit that
  • 00:15:06
    he never liked the guy there's your
  • 00:15:07
    motive motive plus opportunity wham bam
  • 00:15:09
    please
  • 00:15:12
    but juries eat it up and innocent people
  • 00:15:15
    get convicted to this way sometimes how
  • 00:15:16
    often hopefully not too often but we
  • 00:15:17
    know what happens the United States
  • 00:15:19
    Supreme Court don't take my word for
  • 00:15:21
    this in Ohio versus Ryan of the Supreme
  • 00:15:23
    Court of the United States said quote
  • 00:15:24
    one of the Fifth Amendment's basic
  • 00:15:27
    functions is to protect innocent men who
  • 00:15:29
    otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous
  • 00:15:31
    circumstances truthful responses of an
  • 00:15:33
    innocent witness as well as those of a
  • 00:15:36
    wrongdoer may provide the government
  • 00:15:37
    with incriminating evidence from the
  • 00:15:39
    speaker's own mouth see it's not just
  • 00:15:40
    some criminal defense attorney telling
  • 00:15:41
    you this even the Supreme Court says I'm
  • 00:15:43
    right in the fact under the facts of
  • 00:15:44
    that case by the way in Ohio vs. Reiner
  • 00:15:46
    a child tragically was died apparently
  • 00:15:48
    the result of shaken baby syndrome
  • 00:15:49
    question was who had shaken this baby to
  • 00:15:51
    death and one of the possible suspects
  • 00:15:54
    was a babysitter who had spent some time
  • 00:15:56
    with the child that week
  • 00:15:57
    the babysitter's story was I I don't
  • 00:15:59
    know what you're talking about I did not
  • 00:16:00
    kill the child I don't see I did not to
  • 00:16:02
    get heaven I don't know who shook the
  • 00:16:03
    baby it was never me I never did
  • 00:16:04
    anything of any violent nature to the
  • 00:16:06
    child the Ohio State Court said well
  • 00:16:08
    you've got no Fifth Amendment privilege
  • 00:16:09
    you would by your own admission told the
  • 00:16:11
    investigators that you've done nothing
  • 00:16:12
    wrong that you were not involved so
  • 00:16:13
    obviously your answers can't incriminate
  • 00:16:14
    you the United States Supreme Court
  • 00:16:16
    reversed and said well that's not true
  • 00:16:17
    even though they chucked this babysitter
  • 00:16:19
    denies shaking the child denies seeing
  • 00:16:21
    the child died and I know he denies
  • 00:16:23
    knowing how the child died this
  • 00:16:25
    babysitter by her own admission
  • 00:16:27
    apparently was being was that the
  • 00:16:29
    government wanted to ask whether the
  • 00:16:31
    babysitter might have been with the
  • 00:16:32
    child at some point that week during the
  • 00:16:34
    week prior to the death and that answer
  • 00:16:35
    although but by itself not sufficient to
  • 00:16:37
    convict anybody could help convict her
  • 00:16:39
    that me she's got a Fifth Amendment
  • 00:16:40
    right to have refused to answer to the
  • 00:16:41
    question the court held because it could
  • 00:16:44
    be used to help convict Allman versus
  • 00:16:47
    United States the Supreme Court said
  • 00:16:48
    more than 50 years ago eerily prophetic
  • 00:16:52
    they said to many Americans even those
  • 00:16:54
    who should be better advised view this
  • 00:16:56
    privilege as a shelter for wrongdoers
  • 00:16:58
    they too readily assumed that those who
  • 00:16:59
    invoke it are either guilty of crime or
  • 00:17:01
    commit perjury and claiming the
  • 00:17:02
    privilege that's not true and it never
  • 00:17:03
    has been but it gets worse
  • 00:17:06
    Kenny favors it can number 5 even if
  • 00:17:09
    your client is innocent and only tells
  • 00:17:11
    of the truth and does not tell the
  • 00:17:13
    police anything incriminating which by
  • 00:17:14
    the way is almost impossible to pull
  • 00:17:16
    this off I mean imagine talking to the
  • 00:17:18
    police for two three four hours and and
  • 00:17:20
    somebody like him can't somehow managed
  • 00:17:21
    to extract from you is something that
  • 00:17:22
    could be used to help convict you there
  • 00:17:25
    to be extraordinary
  • 00:17:26
    think anybody's pulled it up but what
  • 00:17:27
    even if you could pull it off there's
  • 00:17:28
    still a grave chance that his answers
  • 00:17:30
    can and will be used to crucify you in a
  • 00:17:33
    court of law if the police no offense
  • 00:17:34
    don't recall his testimony with 100%
  • 00:17:36
    accuracy
  • 00:17:37
    all right now this brings us back to
  • 00:17:39
    that pop quiz I warned you about I told
  • 00:17:40
    you earlier remember [ __ ] it's only been
  • 00:17:41
    a few minutes and you weren't up all
  • 00:17:43
    night and you were at the subject of
  • 00:17:44
    physical duress you were in the relaxed
  • 00:17:46
    setting of a classroom here
  • 00:17:47
    you were given heads-up advanced notice
  • 00:17:49
    that you would be quizzed on this
  • 00:17:51
    question we'll start with a couple of
  • 00:17:53
    easy ones remember that article I read
  • 00:17:55
    you about that how many people did the
  • 00:17:58
    police find shot to death last night at
  • 00:17:59
    that oceanview apartment that I told you
  • 00:18:00
    about a1 b2 c3 d4 who says a b c get
  • 00:18:09
    this so get there with a camera show get
  • 00:18:10
    move that camera look how many hands
  • 00:18:12
    we've got there for C ok D you're all
  • 00:18:17
    wrong everybody who raised their hand
  • 00:18:19
    everybody who raised their hand you are
  • 00:18:22
    the kind of people who should never talk
  • 00:18:24
    to the police under any circumstances or
  • 00:18:25
    as long as you live
  • 00:18:26
    why is C not the right answer by the way
  • 00:18:28
    if you know raise your hand yes
  • 00:18:33
    excellent I didn't say anybody was shot
  • 00:18:35
    I didn't say gun bullet shooting
  • 00:18:39
    firearms didn't use any of those words
  • 00:18:42
    but I don't blame you if you thought
  • 00:18:44
    that I did this is the way the human
  • 00:18:46
    mind works we hear things we fill in
  • 00:18:48
    details
  • 00:18:49
    I said gangland style slang that may or
  • 00:18:52
    may not apply something but it doesn't
  • 00:18:53
    mean that anybody was shot and that's
  • 00:18:55
    the problem you see even if your client
  • 00:18:57
    is innocent and only tells the truth and
  • 00:18:59
    doesn't tell them anything incriminating
  • 00:19:00
    and his statement is videotaped his
  • 00:19:03
    answers can be used to crucify him you
  • 00:19:05
    might say wait how can that happen
  • 00:19:06
    I insisted in my insistence I called the
  • 00:19:08
    police and I said look at you want to
  • 00:19:09
    talk to my client you can talk to him
  • 00:19:11
    but only if you finish yet the whole
  • 00:19:12
    thing I don't want there to be any
  • 00:19:13
    debate between the two of you over what
  • 00:19:15
    happened okay well the videotape the
  • 00:19:16
    whole thing if the police don't recall
  • 00:19:18
    their questions with 100% accuracy he'll
  • 00:19:20
    be convicted on that statement alone for
  • 00:19:22
    example suppose a man goes to the police
  • 00:19:24
    they say we're investigating a possible
  • 00:19:25
    murder a shooting and the guy says quote
  • 00:19:28
    I don't know who killed Jones officer
  • 00:19:29
    Brooke with all due respect I it wasn't
  • 00:19:31
    me I've never touched a fired a gun in
  • 00:19:33
    my life how can that help incriminates
  • 00:19:35
    man how could they possibly be used
  • 00:19:36
    against this man to help convict him you
  • 00:19:39
    think it's inconceivable but it's as
  • 00:19:41
    easy as pie
  • 00:19:42
    all the officer has to do is read this
  • 00:19:44
    statement to the jury and then the
  • 00:19:45
    prosecutor says officer proof was there
  • 00:19:46
    anything about that statement that
  • 00:19:47
    confused you or surprised you yes there
  • 00:19:49
    was he says in a moment of sinister high
  • 00:19:50
    drama in the courtroom and what was that
  • 00:19:52
    and then obviously Brooke turned to the
  • 00:19:53
    jurors and he says I never said anything
  • 00:19:55
    about a shooting I said we were
  • 00:19:56
    investigating a murder he was the one
  • 00:19:59
    who brought up a gun then you turn to
  • 00:20:01
    your client your client says that's not
  • 00:20:02
    true that's not true I remember he was
  • 00:20:04
    the one or one of the cops I was with
  • 00:20:05
    him for three hours one of them in the
  • 00:20:06
    car said something about they said they
  • 00:20:08
    had a witness that I was the shooter
  • 00:20:09
    okay I'll put you on the stand and then
  • 00:20:11
    your client testifies no no no they did
  • 00:20:13
    tell me shooting I mentioned they
  • 00:20:14
    mentioned before I said anything about a
  • 00:20:15
    gun they brought it up first and then
  • 00:20:16
    the police said that's not true and now
  • 00:20:18
    what it's your word against theirs for
  • 00:20:19
    what you're gambling with your clients
  • 00:20:21
    life and police officers can very easily
  • 00:20:24
    make a mistake like that just as so many
  • 00:20:26
    of you did just a few minutes ago about
  • 00:20:27
    whether you recall having heard me say
  • 00:20:29
    something about somebody actually being
  • 00:20:30
    shot police make mistakes innocently
  • 00:20:34
    inadvertently unintentionally any
  • 00:20:36
    statement no matter how exco pictorially
  • 00:20:38
    may seem on its face can be used to
  • 00:20:39
    crucify you all by itself if the police
  • 00:20:41
    are either willing to lie not likely or
  • 00:20:43
    if they just have a innocent Mis
  • 00:20:45
    recollection of the details as to what
  • 00:20:47
    they did and did not tell you before you
  • 00:20:48
    told them what you said all of these by
  • 00:20:50
    the way all of these problems disappear
  • 00:20:52
    if you take justice Jackson's advice and
  • 00:20:53
    say thank you very much opposite by no
  • 00:20:55
    thanks how about this one here we go now
  • 00:20:58
    here's the most surprising of all I've
  • 00:21:00
    saved the most surprising one for a last
  • 00:21:01
    let's suppose you've got the following
  • 00:21:03
    scenario your client thinking about
  • 00:21:05
    talking to the police he acts like he
  • 00:21:06
    says I've got nothing to hide they think
  • 00:21:08
    that I killed somebody in Virginia Beach
  • 00:21:10
    last night well weary and this is what
  • 00:21:12
    and this is what your client tells you
  • 00:21:13
    in confidence I don't know who robbed
  • 00:21:15
    that store it wasn't me in fact I've got
  • 00:21:18
    a pretty good alibi I wasn't even in
  • 00:21:19
    Virginia Beach that night last night I
  • 00:21:21
    was four hours away visiting my mother
  • 00:21:23
    in the Outer Banks unfortunately no I
  • 00:21:26
    did not pay for guests with a credit
  • 00:21:27
    card
  • 00:21:28
    I used cash and so I've got no witnesses
  • 00:21:30
    that can prove I was there except my
  • 00:21:31
    word and of course mama for what that's
  • 00:21:33
    worth which is nothing but so your
  • 00:21:38
    client says let's so the police want to
  • 00:21:39
    talk to me and I want to seem
  • 00:21:40
    cooperative so what I'll do is I'll tell
  • 00:21:42
    them that I was in the Outer Banks last
  • 00:21:43
    night no there's nothing on its face
  • 00:21:45
    incriminating about any of that let's
  • 00:21:47
    assume by the way that you will believe
  • 00:21:48
    with all your doubt you've given your
  • 00:21:49
    client a polygraph exam you've known him
  • 00:21:52
    for years you've been going to the same
  • 00:21:53
    Bible study for 30 years you know beyond
  • 00:21:55
    a shadow of a doubt that he's telling
  • 00:21:56
    you the truth and he's not admitting
  • 00:21:59
    anything he's not admitting motive he's
  • 00:22:01
    not admitting opportunity he's not
  • 00:22:02
    admitting that he was there how on earth
  • 00:22:04
    could this come back to haunt us how on
  • 00:22:06
    earth could this come back to be used
  • 00:22:07
    against us be honest raise your hand if
  • 00:22:09
    you really think the answer to that
  • 00:22:10
    question is I can't see how it could
  • 00:22:11
    possibly be used against me you're
  • 00:22:14
    afraid I'll calling you right now I
  • 00:22:15
    won't call on you well you're wrong
  • 00:22:16
    you're dead wrong you're always wrong
  • 00:22:18
    everything you say every time you talk
  • 00:22:21
    to the police you will regret it you see
  • 00:22:24
    the problem is here it is this is the
  • 00:22:25
    last point I think it's almost willing
  • 00:22:27
    even if your client is innocent and only
  • 00:22:29
    tells the truth and doesn't tell the
  • 00:22:30
    police anything incriminating and the
  • 00:22:32
    entire interview questions and answers
  • 00:22:33
    are videotape you're even his truthful
  • 00:22:36
    answers can be helped to use crucify
  • 00:22:37
    even an innocent man if the police
  • 00:22:39
    through no fault of theirs end up in the
  • 00:22:41
    possession of any evidence even mistaken
  • 00:22:43
    and unreliable evidence that anything
  • 00:22:45
    your client told them was false even if
  • 00:22:47
    in fact it was true again going back to
  • 00:22:49
    this example from a moment ago let's
  • 00:22:51
    suppose I tell I go ahead and I meet
  • 00:22:52
    with the police I got think I got
  • 00:22:53
    nothing to hide I tell them I was in the
  • 00:22:55
    Outer Banks last night officer how can
  • 00:22:56
    it be used to convict me by itself it
  • 00:22:58
    cannot it cannot help at all by itself
  • 00:23:00
    but what if I later find out to my
  • 00:23:01
    horror after I put my cards on the table
  • 00:23:03
    that they've got a witness a girl that I
  • 00:23:05
    went to high school with and on a peach
  • 00:23:07
    of a witness we've never been enemies
  • 00:23:08
    she'd have no reason to lie she swears
  • 00:23:10
    she thinks she saw me in Virginia Beach
  • 00:23:12
    last night a couple of blocks away from
  • 00:23:14
    that store about an hour before it was
  • 00:23:15
    robbed
  • 00:23:16
    now her testimony by itself isn't going
  • 00:23:18
    to help the prosecutor help if she's all
  • 00:23:20
    they've got I'll get this case thrown
  • 00:23:22
    out before a trial but it's like an
  • 00:23:23
    idiot I talked to the police and I told
  • 00:23:25
    them the truth I told them I was in the
  • 00:23:27
    Outer Banks and now a lo and behold
  • 00:23:29
    tragically it turns out they've got a
  • 00:23:30
    witness a false mistake and confused but
  • 00:23:32
    sincere incredible witness who could
  • 00:23:34
    testify that I was here at Virginia
  • 00:23:35
    Beach now they're lucky to get a
  • 00:23:37
    conviction because what they'll do I've
  • 00:23:39
    just turned this cop and this woman into
  • 00:23:41
    the government's star witness they'll
  • 00:23:42
    put her held up put officer Brooke on to
  • 00:23:43
    testify about how my client lied to him
  • 00:23:45
    about being in the Outer Banks and then
  • 00:23:47
    they'll put on this girl this the girl
  • 00:23:48
    who otherwise would have not even helped
  • 00:23:49
    with the case at all who will testify no
  • 00:23:51
    that's not true that was a lie I saw mr.
  • 00:23:53
    Dwayne's client here in Virginia an hour
  • 00:23:55
    before the robbery not so far from the
  • 00:23:57
    store by herself she would not have
  • 00:23:58
    helped the government in any significant
  • 00:24:00
    way but what I have just done you see is
  • 00:24:02
    given them the other part of the puzzle
  • 00:24:03
    and now I'm doomed just asked them I
  • 00:24:08
    close I close with this example here we
  • 00:24:11
    have a couple of recent celebrity
  • 00:24:13
    examples of aya dish that even people
  • 00:24:15
    who admit nothing
  • 00:24:16
    always end up a denying it I mean sorry
  • 00:24:18
    they always didn't end up regretting it
  • 00:24:20
    on the Left we have Martha Stewart she
  • 00:24:22
    was the victim the subject of an
  • 00:24:23
    extensive government investigation that
  • 00:24:25
    was looking into the possibility that
  • 00:24:26
    she was guilty of violations of certain
  • 00:24:28
    federal laws securities laws fraud kinds
  • 00:24:30
    of things they couldn't pin that on her
  • 00:24:32
    but they were able to in a conviction
  • 00:24:34
    because she denied it talking to the
  • 00:24:36
    police and leading someone for
  • 00:24:37
    shareholders she said no it's not true I
  • 00:24:38
    was not guilty so they charged with
  • 00:24:40
    lying to federal investigators and they
  • 00:24:42
    got a conviction and she was sentence to
  • 00:24:43
    five months in prison Marion Jones on
  • 00:24:45
    the right side another person who would
  • 00:24:46
    still be out today if she had always
  • 00:24:48
    taken the advice that I'm giving you now
  • 00:24:50
    she was asked if she had ever used his
  • 00:24:52
    steroids a controlled substance and
  • 00:24:54
    instead of taking the fifth she said no
  • 00:24:56
    I never took steroids when I won those
  • 00:24:58
    Olympic gold medals
  • 00:24:59
    later on it turned out that she was
  • 00:25:00
    lying she worked out a blue deal so you
  • 00:25:02
    pled guilty she admitted that she was
  • 00:25:03
    lying and she over her strenuous
  • 00:25:05
    tear-filled objection even though she
  • 00:25:06
    has two young children was just recently
  • 00:25:07
    sentenced to prison for six months the
  • 00:25:10
    guy who sold her the stare rights the
  • 00:25:11
    pusher he got only four months but she
  • 00:25:13
    got six months because she lied to the
  • 00:25:15
    police and said that she did not do it
  • 00:25:16
    you see the problem Michael Vick who
  • 00:25:18
    originally pled guilty as you know to
  • 00:25:20
    these charges with respect to the
  • 00:25:21
    operation of this dog combat sort of
  • 00:25:24
    operation at his home at sentencing like
  • 00:25:26
    many other criminal defendants even
  • 00:25:27
    though he eventually pled guilty at
  • 00:25:29
    sentencing one of the things that one of
  • 00:25:31
    the reasons his sentence was a little
  • 00:25:32
    harder than it might have otherwise been
  • 00:25:33
    the judge said was because when he
  • 00:25:35
    initially met with the police he lived
  • 00:25:36
    them said I didn't do anything I didn't
  • 00:25:38
    do it I don't know what you're talking
  • 00:25:39
    about even guilty people but not only
  • 00:25:42
    guilty people will always end up
  • 00:25:43
    regretting talking to the police so my
  • 00:25:47
    advice to you justice Jackson was right
  • 00:25:49
    any sane competent lawyer in his right
  • 00:25:51
    mind will always tell every client under
  • 00:25:53
    all circumstances I don't care if you're
  • 00:25:54
    innocent I don't care if it's the truth
  • 00:25:55
    if it's the truth
  • 00:25:56
    great we'll tell the jury all about it
  • 00:25:58
    there'll be time enough to put our cards
  • 00:25:59
    from the table but before we get there I
  • 00:26:01
    haven't seen yet what the police got
  • 00:26:02
    they may have missed
  • 00:26:03
    and Confused witnesses who will
  • 00:26:05
    contradict even the truthful stuff that
  • 00:26:06
    you say we have no way to know no way to
  • 00:26:09
    predict whether the information that you
  • 00:26:10
    give them even if truthful and reliable
  • 00:26:12
    will end up unwittingly dispelling our
  • 00:26:15
    demise so keep your mouth shut don't
  • 00:26:17
    answer any questions let's take the
  • 00:26:19
    fifth you'll be glad that you did god
  • 00:26:20
    Bless America god bless the blessed the
  • 00:26:22
    Bill of Rights and the geniuses who
  • 00:26:23
    bequeathed it to us but now in fairness
  • 00:26:25
    I give equal time or what's left of
  • 00:26:26
    equal time to a police officer who will
  • 00:26:31
    explain to the extent to which if any he
  • 00:26:33
    agrees or disagrees with anything I've
  • 00:26:34
    got to say I didn't I have no idea to
  • 00:26:36
    know what he's going to say but it'll be
  • 00:26:37
    interesting here let me get in the
  • 00:26:39
    microphone get let's give the hand off
  • 00:26:42
    of the tourist group the Virginia Beach
  • 00:26:44
    Police Department I cannot talk that
  • 00:26:52
    fast
  • 00:26:54
    not even interviewing I'm gonna take the
  • 00:26:56
    podium here professor cuz I took notes
  • 00:26:58
    on some of the things you said and
  • 00:27:00
    everything he said was true
  • 00:27:03
    okay and it was right and it was correct
  • 00:27:06
    and I'm just gonna give you a few ideas
  • 00:27:07
    I'm gonna tell you a few examples but
  • 00:27:10
    first I'm gonna give you a little
  • 00:27:12
    information as was said earlier I've
  • 00:27:15
    interviewed thousands of people I've
  • 00:27:16
    interviewed people with foreign Police
  • 00:27:18
    Department's when I was in the Navy I
  • 00:27:19
    was in law enforcement and I was a
  • 00:27:21
    criminal investigator thank God we're in
  • 00:27:24
    the United States because most
  • 00:27:25
    interviews and Italy Spain and so forth
  • 00:27:27
    start out physically okay there's no
  • 00:27:30
    police police abuse over there they can
  • 00:27:32
    do pretty much what they want any time
  • 00:27:34
    they want any how they want so just be
  • 00:27:37
    aware of that and be thankful for yet
  • 00:27:39
    biggest question I was asked when I
  • 00:27:40
    first I am a 3l and there's some of my
  • 00:27:43
    classmates in here best days coming up
  • 00:27:46
    May 10th when we get to leave so those
  • 00:27:49
    of you that are applying and I told a
  • 00:27:51
    couple of people this you think it's
  • 00:27:52
    hard getting into law school try getting
  • 00:27:54
    out okay couple of things I was asked
  • 00:27:58
    how do I quit from getting speeding
  • 00:27:59
    tickets very easy question quit speeding
  • 00:28:01
    okay but something professor Duane
  • 00:28:04
    brought up are any of you guilty of
  • 00:28:07
    anything how many of you drove here
  • 00:28:08
    today anybody go above fifty five on the
  • 00:28:12
    interstate anybody drive at home and go
  • 00:28:14
    above fifty five on the interstate
  • 00:28:16
    because
  • 00:28:17
    if you if you stake and there and there
  • 00:28:34
    you go and people are inherently honest
  • 00:28:36
    and that's their biggest downfall okay
  • 00:28:37
    they really are or they want to tell
  • 00:28:39
    their story and if you drive 55 on the
  • 00:28:42
    interstate where it's 55 the only thing
  • 00:28:44
    you're gonna do is meet the person
  • 00:28:45
    behind you because they're gonna
  • 00:28:45
    rear-engine you're gonna get run over
  • 00:28:47
    okay so that's a fact but everybody does
  • 00:28:49
    something that they can get in trouble
  • 00:28:51
    for I can follow as a police officer I
  • 00:28:52
    was uniformed I could follow a car
  • 00:28:54
    however long I needed to and eventually
  • 00:28:56
    they're gonna do something illegal and I
  • 00:28:58
    can pull them over and justifiably
  • 00:29:00
    illegal to pull them over so just be
  • 00:29:02
    aware of that
  • 00:29:03
    don't don't think you're so innocent in
  • 00:29:05
    such a thing when you get stopped for a
  • 00:29:08
    traffic ticket everyone likes to be
  • 00:29:10
    somewhat honest and what's the first
  • 00:29:12
    thing the police officer asked you do
  • 00:29:14
    you know how fast you're going
  • 00:29:15
    if the speed limits 35 you'll say oh 38
  • 00:29:19
    40 because you want to be kind of honest
  • 00:29:21
    even though you're doing 50 you just
  • 00:29:24
    said 38 40 you just admitted to breaking
  • 00:29:27
    the law you just confessed so they can
  • 00:29:30
    go to court with that with a confession
  • 00:29:31
    then you're exceeding the speed limit
  • 00:29:33
    okay so think you need to think about
  • 00:29:35
    those things and when you do become
  • 00:29:37
    defense attorneys which I may who knows
  • 00:29:40
    you need to think about those things for
  • 00:29:42
    your clients the other thing you need to
  • 00:29:44
    think about your clients and this is
  • 00:29:46
    gonna seem very terse people are stupid
  • 00:29:49
    your clients are stupid and I've had
  • 00:29:51
    defense attorneys come to me matter of
  • 00:29:53
    fact one on a motion to suppress just
  • 00:29:56
    Tuesday come up to me and tell me his
  • 00:29:58
    client was stupid okay
  • 00:30:00
    they're very straightforward they do
  • 00:30:03
    foolish things they talk to the police
  • 00:30:05
    you got you guys need to be aware of
  • 00:30:07
    that now in my past and it wasn't
  • 00:30:12
    exaggerated I have interviewed thousands
  • 00:30:14
    of people I have a I've arrested and
  • 00:30:17
    dealt with over a thousand felony well
  • 00:30:19
    actually more than a thousand felonies
  • 00:30:21
    probably got 20 car yeah about a
  • 00:30:24
    thousand fellows 2,500 misdemeanors 98%
  • 00:30:27
    of a conviction rate eighty percent of
  • 00:30:28
    them I don't even have to go to court
  • 00:30:29
    why
  • 00:30:31
    because there's confessions because they
  • 00:30:33
    confess so these people have no problem
  • 00:30:37
    the hardened criminals have no problem
  • 00:30:39
    talking to the police people like to
  • 00:30:41
    tell their story and they'll sit in that
  • 00:30:44
    room and think about it you're picked up
  • 00:30:47
    by the police you're in a little room
  • 00:30:48
    there's one chair here there's a desk
  • 00:30:50
    there's another chair what's the thing
  • 00:30:52
    you want the most right at that point to
  • 00:30:55
    get out of that room to be out of that
  • 00:30:58
    room I think the police officers police
  • 00:31:00
    officers shift is ending in 15 minutes
  • 00:31:02
    does the police officer want to get out
  • 00:31:04
    of that room my overtime rates 58
  • 00:31:06
    dollars an hour do I want to get out of
  • 00:31:08
    that room I have no problem I'll stay
  • 00:31:10
    there for 10 hours I'll say I'll take
  • 00:31:12
    that $600 okay so I have no motivation
  • 00:31:15
    to want to leave you do and that's
  • 00:31:17
    that's how we get you to try to talk I
  • 00:31:19
    have my job my job is to develop
  • 00:31:23
    probable cause develop a good case a
  • 00:31:25
    great case is a case with a confession
  • 00:31:28
    get it to the Commonwealth's Attorney so
  • 00:31:32
    that they can prosecute the case with
  • 00:31:34
    little if any effort and the
  • 00:31:35
    Commonwealth Attorney's love those cases
  • 00:31:37
    the little inny in the effort because
  • 00:31:39
    they come with a stack of files that
  • 00:31:40
    high in court every day so they love
  • 00:31:43
    those cases that's my job the defense
  • 00:31:45
    attorneys job is to hope they get to
  • 00:31:47
    their client before I do and make sure
  • 00:31:50
    they don't talk to me no matter what
  • 00:31:53
    give you an example and this will go
  • 00:31:55
    right along with what Professor Glenn
  • 00:31:56
    was putting up his examples I had an
  • 00:31:58
    interview that went something like this
  • 00:31:59
    were you involved in the burglaries no I
  • 00:32:02
    had nothing to do with them you didn't
  • 00:32:04
    have anything to do it no you were in a
  • 00:32:05
    car with all this stolen stuff in it
  • 00:32:07
    yeah nothing do about know you knew it
  • 00:32:10
    was there
  • 00:32:10
    yeah okay now we got possession of
  • 00:32:12
    stolen property felony okay but you had
  • 00:32:14
    nothing to do with it no so what did you
  • 00:32:17
    need the money for I had to pay some of
  • 00:32:19
    my court costs from another thing I got
  • 00:32:21
    in trouble for oh so he took the money
  • 00:32:23
    from stealing the stuff I have enough to
  • 00:32:25
    charge him now with burglary
  • 00:32:26
    simple as that would you see the picture
  • 00:32:29
    on that camera
  • 00:32:30
    of the house with the Christmas
  • 00:32:32
    decorations this is a real case scenario
  • 00:32:34
    yeah did you go in that house no I
  • 00:32:36
    didn't go into that one
  • 00:32:41
    so there's ways around it there's ways
  • 00:32:46
    to get around people who try not to talk
  • 00:32:48
    to you
  • 00:32:48
    and again as Professor Dwayne said if
  • 00:32:52
    you wanted to go and say you wanted to
  • 00:32:53
    go into a boxing match hundred dollars
  • 00:32:55
    if you win you've never box before you
  • 00:32:58
    have to face somebody who's an Olympic
  • 00:33:00
    boxer you're going to lose you're gonna
  • 00:33:04
    face somebody who's been interviewing
  • 00:33:06
    people for in my case twenty eight years
  • 00:33:09
    they're going to lose unless you're
  • 00:33:12
    purely innocent now on the other side of
  • 00:33:15
    it I don't want to put anyone that's
  • 00:33:16
    innocent in jail but I try not to bring
  • 00:33:20
    anyone into the interview room that's
  • 00:33:21
    innocent and there are a couple that I
  • 00:33:24
    have let walk away because they were
  • 00:33:26
    innocent
  • 00:33:27
    okay the interviews how do we approach
  • 00:33:30
    the interviews there's a number way to
  • 00:33:32
    approach interviews there's a number of
  • 00:33:33
    types of people that I deal with first
  • 00:33:35
    thing I do anyone know what they get
  • 00:33:37
    told first when they're in an interview
  • 00:33:39
    Miranda Miranda warning okay it's not a
  • 00:33:44
    right you don't have a right to Miranda
  • 00:33:46
    those rights have always been theirs
  • 00:33:47
    called the Constitution you're just
  • 00:33:48
    teaching you're doing a real quick class
  • 00:33:50
    on the Constitution for these people
  • 00:33:51
    usually they don't listen to it and this
  • 00:33:54
    is the way I get my Miranda warning look
  • 00:33:56
    I have to tell you this just pay
  • 00:33:58
    attention okay
  • 00:34:00
    they're usually sitting back or they're
  • 00:34:01
    very attentive you have the right to
  • 00:34:03
    remain silent
  • 00:34:04
    do you understand that yes anything you
  • 00:34:06
    say may be used against you in a court
  • 00:34:08
    I don't have to say it will be I say it
  • 00:34:09
    may be okay and they get that you have a
  • 00:34:12
    right to an attorney and if you can't
  • 00:34:14
    afford one one may be appointed to
  • 00:34:16
    represent you got that you can decide
  • 00:34:19
    not to talk quit talking to me at any
  • 00:34:21
    time and exercise these rights you
  • 00:34:22
    understand that
  • 00:34:23
    sure now before I do the primary thing
  • 00:34:28
    that's needed with those rights and
  • 00:34:29
    that's to get a waiver I say now before
  • 00:34:32
    you say anything let me tell you what I
  • 00:34:35
    know and over all the time I've had to
  • 00:34:38
    put together what this individual was
  • 00:34:40
    supposedly involved and I don't say
  • 00:34:42
    supposedly because professor doing
  • 00:34:43
    sitting over there that this individual
  • 00:34:46
    was involved in I will tell the story
  • 00:34:48
    that I put together and it'll be pretty
  • 00:34:51
    close to what happened
  • 00:34:52
    and I can see that it's pretty close to
  • 00:34:54
    what happened because that individual
  • 00:34:56
    starts slumping down in their chair put
  • 00:34:59
    their hand to their face doing this in
  • 00:35:02
    their mind oh my god I'm going to jail
  • 00:35:03
    forever okay and I can see it I said now
  • 00:35:06
    that you know what I know do you want to
  • 00:35:08
    talk to me and why do I do that because
  • 00:35:12
    if I didn't do that is if I said you
  • 00:35:15
    want to talk to me they'll say no so I
  • 00:35:18
    give them the time to think about and
  • 00:35:20
    then comes the next phrase now before
  • 00:35:23
    you start talking to me let me tell you
  • 00:35:25
    the difference between a lie and a truth
  • 00:35:26
    if you lie to me and I get before the
  • 00:35:29
    judge and I tell the judge that you were
  • 00:35:31
    dishonest with me that's just not gonna
  • 00:35:33
    make them happy but if I get before the
  • 00:35:35
    judge and tell them you're honest
  • 00:35:36
    straightforward willing to take
  • 00:35:38
    responsibility for your actions that is
  • 00:35:41
    going to help you that's not a lie
  • 00:35:43
    though that is true in Virginia Beach
  • 00:35:45
    courts it will help them you know they
  • 00:35:48
    may not get five years they may get
  • 00:35:49
    three years they're still going to
  • 00:35:51
    prison or they're still going to have a
  • 00:35:53
    felony but it will help them and then I
  • 00:35:56
    have to determine what kind of person I
  • 00:35:58
    have and there's two types there's the
  • 00:36:00
    one like I mentioned to you earlier
  • 00:36:01
    where I have to talk to him talk to him
  • 00:36:05
    about different things get into their
  • 00:36:09
    own skin as the word is and try and get
  • 00:36:13
    them to talk to me and discuss things I
  • 00:36:15
    had a sexual assault case I had to talk
  • 00:36:18
    to the guy how hot the woman was and I
  • 00:36:20
    understand where he was coming from and
  • 00:36:22
    when that when I said that we were buds
  • 00:36:24
    and he started talking to me and he's
  • 00:36:27
    still sitting in prison okay
  • 00:36:30
    so you've got to get in there and you
  • 00:36:31
    got to go place the other side is I
  • 00:36:33
    can't try and act like that individual
  • 00:36:36
    acts okay I can't try and act like what
  • 00:36:42
    we call lovingly a hood rat I can't try
  • 00:36:45
    and act and talk like him because I'm an
  • 00:36:50
    older white guy we don't talk like that
  • 00:36:52
    and that would be an insult and you
  • 00:36:55
    can't insult people it doesn't matter
  • 00:36:57
    who they are it doesn't matter where
  • 00:36:58
    they grew up
  • 00:36:59
    it doesn't matter where they're from you
  • 00:37:01
    can't insult people like that you have
  • 00:37:03
    to be yourself so you have to get in
  • 00:37:05
    into there
  • 00:37:05
    mindset in the way they're thinking and
  • 00:37:07
    have a discussion with him the other
  • 00:37:10
    type of person is the one that likes to
  • 00:37:12
    tell story this young man great man I
  • 00:37:15
    love him to death he didn't go to jail
  • 00:37:16
    because I went to bat for him because I
  • 00:37:18
    felt sorry for him he was a newlywed he
  • 00:37:20
    was having money problems
  • 00:37:21
    former Marine I said tell me what
  • 00:37:24
    happened and he told me this beautiful
  • 00:37:26
    story about what happened what he had
  • 00:37:29
    done is he had sold a piece of equipment
  • 00:37:30
    that his ex-employer had had that he had
  • 00:37:33
    stolen told me the beautiful story of
  • 00:37:35
    what happened about him finding it on
  • 00:37:37
    the side of the road and all that kind
  • 00:37:39
    of stuff
  • 00:37:40
    Dameon question about him after he
  • 00:37:43
    finished his whole story very unwell the
  • 00:37:46
    very beautiful story i sat there and
  • 00:37:47
    listened to it for 15 minutes I looked
  • 00:37:50
    and I said you stole the stuff from your
  • 00:37:52
    boss didn't you yes sir I did
  • 00:37:53
    I had nothing I really had nothing
  • 00:37:59
    except the fact that he had sold it so
  • 00:38:02
    there's those those types of people and
  • 00:38:04
    then the third type the one who tries to
  • 00:38:06
    be the hood who tries to be the criminal
  • 00:38:07
    who cries like a baby when they walk
  • 00:38:09
    into jail but when they're on the street
  • 00:38:11
    there is tough tough as rocks you go in
  • 00:38:13
    there with your paperwork you sit down
  • 00:38:15
    and you just start doing paperwork and
  • 00:38:17
    usually have a videotape sitting on top
  • 00:38:19
    of it just for measure so they think I
  • 00:38:21
    have a videotape and you just sit there
  • 00:38:25
    don't tell them Miranda just sit there
  • 00:38:28
    and wait for them to start talking
  • 00:38:29
    because they will they want to talk
  • 00:38:32
    people want to communicate they hate
  • 00:38:33
    silence that's why when people speak you
  • 00:38:37
    hear hmm when they're talking because
  • 00:38:40
    they need to fill that void with
  • 00:38:41
    something people hate silence so that's
  • 00:38:44
    the other one so that's another way so
  • 00:38:46
    so you see how there's an unlevel
  • 00:38:48
    playing field here even with with the
  • 00:38:50
    most educated individual there's an
  • 00:38:51
    unlevel playing field if you talk to the
  • 00:38:54
    police everything's gonna be written
  • 00:38:55
    down if you get pulled over for it for a
  • 00:38:57
    ticket they give you the ticket and you
  • 00:39:01
    pull off you ever see the cop pull off
  • 00:39:03
    right after you usually not that's
  • 00:39:05
    because on the back of their ticket
  • 00:39:07
    they're writing down everything you said
  • 00:39:09
    and it's gonna come into court if you go
  • 00:39:13
    to court
  • 00:39:14
    everything that said I write down every
  • 00:39:17
    phone call I make has to have a
  • 00:39:20
    listening device on it is that illegal
  • 00:39:23
    how many parties need to know that a
  • 00:39:25
    phone conversation in Virginia is being
  • 00:39:27
    recorded one me I know is recorded I get
  • 00:39:33
    many many confessions over the phone
  • 00:39:39
    okay back to the people yes they're
  • 00:39:42
    stupid okay people are stupid I had a
  • 00:39:44
    young man who told me straight up I'm
  • 00:39:47
    going to college I'm going to law school
  • 00:39:51
    I'm too smart you'll never find out what
  • 00:39:54
    happened okay he was going to Tidewater
  • 00:40:00
    Community College the law school of I
  • 00:40:02
    suppose Tidewater Community College he
  • 00:40:06
    was the partner to the one who I told
  • 00:40:08
    you interview about just a little while
  • 00:40:10
    ago where I would ask him what he needed
  • 00:40:12
    the money for he was his partner and he
  • 00:40:14
    was very smart so he thought he thought
  • 00:40:19
    he was a very intelligent individual I
  • 00:40:21
    ended up arresting him five times out of
  • 00:40:24
    his house his mother hated me she liked
  • 00:40:26
    me the first time she apologized she
  • 00:40:28
    didn't really like me much the second
  • 00:40:30
    time it got to the point where she
  • 00:40:31
    really hated me after that he's doing
  • 00:40:33
    eight years upstate he's very smart
  • 00:40:35
    because he decided to tell me how smart
  • 00:40:38
    he was and in telling me how smart he
  • 00:40:41
    was he let it slip that he doesn't sell
  • 00:40:43
    stolen stuff to pawnshops he sells it to
  • 00:40:46
    flea markets because they do not have to
  • 00:40:47
    report to the state I know how to drive
  • 00:40:51
    to a flea market just as good as anyone
  • 00:40:53
    else and go look for stuff that I'm
  • 00:40:55
    looking for so he was trying to impress
  • 00:40:59
    me with his ability to be smarter than I
  • 00:41:01
    was and he confessed
  • 00:41:05
    so people are inherently stupid
  • 00:41:09
    especially criminals now and don't get
  • 00:41:12
    me wrong there are some very intelligent
  • 00:41:13
    criminals out there and most of them
  • 00:41:16
    work in really big office buildings in
  • 00:41:18
    for suits
  • 00:41:20
    yep she went to jail is she hurting no
  • 00:41:24
    but there are some very intelligent
  • 00:41:26
    Street criminals out there as well to
  • 00:41:28
    get other people to do their bidding and
  • 00:41:29
    so forth and so on and people are afraid
  • 00:41:31
    to turn on them but there are some very
  • 00:41:34
    foolish people just a couple of other
  • 00:41:37
    things I do a thing usually with younger
  • 00:41:40
    people usually between the age of I try
  • 00:41:43
    not to deal too much with juveniles but
  • 00:41:45
    between the age of 16 and and 25 is once
  • 00:41:49
    they've talked to me now let's back up a
  • 00:41:52
    little bit you don't need a recording in
  • 00:41:55
    court for a statement as Professor
  • 00:41:57
    Dwayne said it's his word against my
  • 00:42:00
    word if he was a defendant number one
  • 00:42:03
    and this is the way it works and this is
  • 00:42:06
    the way the real world works in case you
  • 00:42:08
    guys haven't been out there that's out
  • 00:42:10
    beside the windows out there the jury
  • 00:42:12
    looks at a defendant sitting next to a
  • 00:42:14
    Pross defense attorney that's strike one
  • 00:42:18
    because the jury is already looking at
  • 00:42:20
    that song as that being someone who did
  • 00:42:22
    something that put them in that chair
  • 00:42:24
    number two they get a uniformed police
  • 00:42:27
    officer up there they get someone
  • 00:42:29
    wearing a suit as a detective up there
  • 00:42:31
    that is a professional witness that's
  • 00:42:34
    strike two so now they have a
  • 00:42:37
    professional witness against them and
  • 00:42:39
    then if they've confessed and that
  • 00:42:40
    professional witness is going to sit
  • 00:42:42
    there and read from his or her notes the
  • 00:42:44
    confession that's strike three go get
  • 00:42:47
    your orange jumpsuit do not pass go do
  • 00:42:50
    not collect $200 so they have all this
  • 00:42:52
    trikes again and I know you're innocent
  • 00:42:54
    till proven guilty but it's a jury of
  • 00:42:56
    your peers and the perception is if
  • 00:42:58
    you're sitting next to a defense
  • 00:42:59
    attorney you have to prove you're
  • 00:43:01
    innocent
  • 00:43:02
    and that's that's just the perception of
  • 00:43:04
    a lot of the jury no matter how many
  • 00:43:06
    jury instructions they get they still
  • 00:43:08
    perceive that person is a hoodlum
  • 00:43:09
    is a criminal and no matter how hard
  • 00:43:13
    some defense attorneys try to put their
  • 00:43:14
    clients in suits and have them sit up at
  • 00:43:17
    the table if the trial is a long trial
  • 00:43:20
    they fall back to their old ways and
  • 00:43:22
    they start acting and speaking in a way
  • 00:43:25
    that's not very good for their case so
  • 00:43:29
    saying that you don't have to have a
  • 00:43:31
    recording myself
  • 00:43:32
    crushin hearing a statement was trying
  • 00:43:34
    to be suppressed because when I record a
  • 00:43:36
    confession or an interview because we
  • 00:43:39
    don't do interrogations the police
  • 00:43:41
    we do not do interrogations that's a bad
  • 00:43:44
    mean Nazi kind of word okay we do
  • 00:43:47
    interviews okay you'd be amazed how much
  • 00:43:51
    difference it makes when you use that
  • 00:43:52
    one one-word advice is interrogation
  • 00:43:55
    I'll take it off the tape and I'll have
  • 00:43:58
    my secretary put it to paper me till
  • 00:44:01
    afterwards I'll take that tape and I'll
  • 00:44:03
    scan it over my magnet throw it in my
  • 00:44:06
    box so I can use it again I do not keep
  • 00:44:08
    the tape it is not evidence it's not
  • 00:44:10
    required to be evidence it is there if
  • 00:44:13
    it's there for the court it's just extra
  • 00:44:15
    you don't have to have that but it's
  • 00:44:19
    really good to have the suppression
  • 00:44:20
    hearing he tried to suppress that after
  • 00:44:22
    I testified the defense counsel stood up
  • 00:44:24
    and says well judge I really don't have
  • 00:44:26
    anything to say and the judge judge
  • 00:44:28
    Canada said motion denied and let's move
  • 00:44:31
    on and go to court so you don't have to
  • 00:44:32
    have recordings you don't have to have
  • 00:44:33
    videotapes the police videotapes that's
  • 00:44:36
    just extra if you've got that police
  • 00:44:37
    officer sitting there test fun you don't
  • 00:44:38
    have to have that videotape you got the
  • 00:44:40
    guy that was right there to tell you
  • 00:44:41
    what happened but it's always nice to
  • 00:44:44
    have those extra things and what I do
  • 00:44:45
    for these young people is I'll say look
  • 00:44:48
    the person who you broke into their
  • 00:44:51
    house are very upset they're very angry
  • 00:44:53
    because you sold their stuff to the
  • 00:44:54
    pawnshop pawnshop stuff sold them they
  • 00:44:57
    don't get their stuff back they're very
  • 00:44:59
    angry they want you to go to prison okay
  • 00:45:03
    they may be very angry they want you to
  • 00:45:05
    go to prison they may want to to lessen
  • 00:45:08
    that that's the start of what's commonly
  • 00:45:12
    known as a lie because we are allowed to
  • 00:45:14
    lie in interviews to lesson that you
  • 00:45:17
    might want to make them happy and the
  • 00:45:18
    reason that's why is because when it is
  • 00:45:20
    a felony in Commonwealth of Virginia the
  • 00:45:22
    victim has nothing to do with the
  • 00:45:23
    prosecution or how long do people go to
  • 00:45:24
    prison or any of that kind of stuff
  • 00:45:26
    we're prosecuting them not to victim but
  • 00:45:30
    to lessen that what I'd like you to do
  • 00:45:32
    is write an apology letter to the person
  • 00:45:35
    whose house you broke into just write it
  • 00:45:39
    out and well how do I write it in your
  • 00:45:41
    own words just right you know I'm sorry
  • 00:45:42
    for what I did then say that you know
  • 00:45:44
    when I broke into your house
  • 00:45:45
    the other night whatever they ride it
  • 00:45:49
    out they sign it I sign as a witness I
  • 00:45:52
    put the date in the time that it was
  • 00:45:53
    written I give it to the Commonwealth's
  • 00:45:55
    Attorney it's entered as evidence as a
  • 00:45:57
    written confession in the person's own
  • 00:46:00
    handwriting
  • 00:46:02
    I don't type it up again and have them
  • 00:46:03
    sign it in their handwriting a written
  • 00:46:06
    confession is that person going to get
  • 00:46:08
    convicted I have never seen him not get
  • 00:46:10
    convicted on that on an apology letter
  • 00:46:14
    so in support of Professor Dwayne
  • 00:46:17
    everything he says is right that's what
  • 00:46:19
    I do
  • 00:46:20
    now to take away the support I don't try
  • 00:46:24
    and send innocent people to jail that's
  • 00:46:27
    it that's all I have any questions or
  • 00:46:29
    anything like that sir
Tags
  • Fifth Amendment
  • legal advice
  • self-incrimination
  • police interrogation
  • law enforcement
  • Bill of Rights
  • criminal defense
  • legal rights
  • US law
  • interviews