00:00:00
when my company was infected with zpes I
00:00:02
was working three days a week and I got
00:00:05
to enjoy a lot of hobbies y I got to
00:00:06
travel I lived the nomatic lifestyle and
00:00:09
I felt like I had great work life
00:00:10
balance this week my boss asked me to do
00:00:13
something over the
00:00:15
weekend that is a
00:00:20
violation you should report him to HR I
00:00:23
think I
00:00:24
saw problem on Michael just reporting HR
00:00:30
this is Dalton plus Michael and today
00:00:32
we're going to talk about how to tell
00:00:37
whether your company is recovering from
00:00:41
zures so as I'm sure you've seen from
00:00:43
our previous video we did a video on Zer
00:00:46
zero interest rate phenomenon this was
00:00:49
the kind of shorthand term for the crazy
00:00:51
period of time around covid where money
00:00:54
was thrown around like trees and funds
00:00:56
were doing amazing and kpis and metrics
00:00:58
didn't matter and now we're in the
00:01:01
recovery and um a really intelligent
00:01:04
founder coined this phrase zpes and I
00:01:08
just frakin love it it just the analogy
00:01:11
works so well so that founder said uh
00:01:14
zpes I'm giving him the credit and let's
00:01:18
talk about how to tell whether your
00:01:21
company is recovering from zpes because
00:01:23
all companies had to live through the
00:01:25
Zer experience yeah whether it was the
00:01:28
huge big tech companies all way down to
00:01:30
the two person startups it had a
00:01:32
profound impact on yes everybody
00:01:35
basically and like you know to be really
00:01:38
clear if you're working in a company
00:01:39
that is effectively recovering from
00:01:42
zpes that's good yeah like you should
00:01:45
probably keep staying there like your
00:01:47
stock is going to be worth more Yep if
00:01:49
you are working at a company that's not
00:01:51
effectively recovering from
00:01:54
zpes have you considered starting a
00:01:58
start that
00:02:00
not the worst idea yeah not the worst
00:02:02
idea awesome so how can you tell how can
00:02:04
you tell your company is recovering well
00:02:08
one of the most obvious things is
00:02:11
turnover on the executive team yeah
00:02:15
turnover at the top which is again
00:02:17
normally you're like oh this is a bad
00:02:19
thing we are arguing that is probably a
00:02:22
really good thing yes why is it a good
00:02:24
thing well I would say that there's a
00:02:27
type of executive that comes into a
00:02:29
company that's made it yep and like a
00:02:32
big company person exactly a company a
00:02:35
person who's used to a infinite resource
00:02:38
scenario with little accountability and
00:02:41
that kind of person is a mere paper cut
00:02:44
inside of Google and it is a massive
00:02:48
flesh eating virus inside of a scaling
00:02:51
up stter and that kind of person needs
00:02:54
to go and I would also say there's
00:02:55
another Point here you'll often see the
00:02:58
founders doing more
00:03:00
yeah yeah it's like the founders wake up
00:03:02
one day and they're like oh no I have to
00:03:04
run this country we're host and all
00:03:05
these people I hired are actively
00:03:08
burning us to the ground yes yes yes so
00:03:13
I have to like wake up out of my stuper
00:03:15
yes start running my company again and
00:03:18
need to like get into sort of a wartime
00:03:20
mentality I need to get real about the
00:03:22
situation well and and what I hate is
00:03:24
that like often times there's an immune
00:03:27
response to the founder in their own
00:03:30
yep right where the organization like
00:03:31
whoa whoa whoa you hired us to do these
00:03:33
things like you shouldn't be you should
00:03:36
working on products I'm your head of
00:03:38
product you should be working on
00:03:39
marketing I have a head I have a CMO
00:03:41
yeah so it's almost like the founder
00:03:42
gets boxed in yeah which is like it's
00:03:45
like well you know if that person is
00:03:47
doing a great job you're right the
00:03:49
founder shouldn't have to worry about it
00:03:50
what if the person's doing a bad job the
00:03:53
founders whole nose face body should be
00:03:56
involved to give them the bit of the
00:03:58
doubt they were D at the height of Zer
00:04:02
sure to execute on a strategy that in
00:04:05
the cold light of current environment is
00:04:09
not a strategy they want to work on
00:04:11
perfect perfect example that's giving
00:04:12
them the benefit doubt but that still
00:04:13
doesn't mean it's a good fit no still a
00:04:16
bad fit but not their fault so this
00:04:19
executive turnover founder more involved
00:04:22
thing great good sign your company is
00:04:25
recovering from zpes um opposite not so
00:04:29
good let's talk about a sticky one here
00:04:33
returning to the office returning to off
00:04:35
return to office something that some
00:04:37
people may not love we are recording
00:04:39
this from the yator office we have
00:04:41
returned to office I think there was
00:04:43
this moment at the height of Zer when
00:04:45
people are like you know we're never
00:04:47
going to have offices anymore like we
00:04:49
should just tear down the Office
00:04:50
Buildings let's turn them all into
00:04:51
Apartments all offices are done yeah you
00:04:54
know some of the founders loved it
00:04:55
they're like oh I could just live in a
00:04:57
tropical island and exactly Bali right
00:05:00
islands are great yeah and let's let's
00:05:02
point out like I will create a world for
00:05:04
you Dalton where this idea is correct in
00:05:07
a world where we can only be inside of
00:05:10
our houses because everyone fears death
00:05:12
going
00:05:13
outside we probably don't need offic
00:05:16
that's fair that's fair like yeah and I
00:05:18
argue San Francisco lived in that world
00:05:21
for a long time two years maybe maybe
00:05:23
three yeah probably three yeah uh but
00:05:26
not in that world yeah and so if a
00:05:29
company is doing return to office again
00:05:33
you may not love it personally but is a
00:05:35
sign that the Senior Management has
00:05:38
gotten real yes and has gotten religion
00:05:41
on how to get their company back on
00:05:43
track yes and if you are an ambitious
00:05:46
person working at these places you
00:05:47
should be relieved yes because it's a
00:05:49
sign yes your Equity might be worth
00:05:51
something and that you're recovering
00:05:52
they're like that the Senior Management
00:05:54
got real and I think this is like I I
00:05:57
hate having to argue about this because
00:05:59
there's so much empirical evidence right
00:06:01
cities exist what are cities collections
00:06:04
of people who are closer to each other
00:06:07
and like it's obvious that cities create
00:06:09
productivity having a team close to one
00:06:12
another obviously creates productivity
00:06:14
and like we can talk about the like but
00:06:16
but but but but well yeah but like and
00:06:18
and it's like it's funny because people
00:06:19
always want to quantify it so like you
00:06:21
know you run into someone at the water
00:06:24
coolers but it's just like having a
00:06:27
deeper connection with the people you're
00:06:29
working with and I think we can all
00:06:31
agree you have a deeper connection with
00:06:32
people who you see in physical world
00:06:34
than on Zoom screens having a deeper
00:06:36
connection with people you're working
00:06:38
with gives you the ability to
00:06:39
potentially be more productive and The
00:06:41
Meta point I would make on this is even
00:06:43
if you personally are one of the butt
00:06:45
butt butt people about this yes the sign
00:06:47
that Senior Management is getting
00:06:50
religion about this and is willing to
00:06:52
like make a big CH it means you're
00:06:55
working on a in a good place with a
00:06:57
winning culture that the that senior
00:06:59
manager was like Hey I know some people
00:07:00
may grouchy about it but we're doing
00:07:02
this that's a good sign that's a sign
00:07:04
that they've gotten real yes making hard
00:07:07
decisions making hard decisions and
00:07:08
willing to have some people be upset
00:07:11
about it but they're going to do the
00:07:12
right thing anyway again I think that's
00:07:14
a good sign one would argue that a big
00:07:16
part of Zer was using money to not have
00:07:19
to make any hard decisions yeah give
00:07:21
everybody everything always all the
00:07:23
money's free yes you could do anything
00:07:25
you could live anywhere yes this is kind
00:07:26
of making a hard decision which is again
00:07:28
a sign of critical thinking yes all
00:07:30
right next one vanity projects anyone
00:07:33
working inside of a company knows when
00:07:36
they encounter a project that exists uh
00:07:39
the best one I love to get someone a
00:07:41
promotion yep what is the opposite of
00:07:43
building something for the
00:07:46
customer and like using company
00:07:48
resources it's like I don't want to call
00:07:51
to justify the promotion of someone yes
00:07:53
it's like here build this thing okay I'm
00:07:54
going to throw this in the trash thank
00:07:56
you all of your hard work is going to
00:07:58
get me promoted though is that
00:08:01
stealing like I you're taking company
00:08:04
resources to produce something that can
00:08:06
only benefit yourself it'd be like if
00:08:09
you stole office supplies and sold it on
00:08:11
Etsy yes but worse but worse it's like
00:08:15
if you stole money from a bank and put
00:08:17
it in your bank
00:08:18
account yeah that's kind of what you I
00:08:21
don't I don't know if we're going to win
00:08:22
this argument but okay but basically
00:08:24
there's a lot of people in a lot of
00:08:26
companies who are like I need a team and
00:08:29
I need resources I need budget for blah
00:08:31
blah blah project and the whole thing is
00:08:33
a self-perpetuating
00:08:36
yes I need resources to do things so
00:08:40
that I can get more resources to do
00:08:42
things and basically the game you're
00:08:43
playing is how many people can you get
00:08:45
in your org reporting to you so you
00:08:48
continue to level up now dton I don't
00:08:50
want to blame those people because I
00:08:52
would argue that that machine that
00:08:54
system that they're trying to optimize
00:08:57
was created on purpose or not by the
00:08:59
founders of that company and so those
00:09:02
Founders trying to correct that system
00:09:05
yep is a good thing yeah that's a good
00:09:08
thing like and so if you're working in a
00:09:10
place and you're noticing that the
00:09:11
people that were doing this are gone yes
00:09:15
or at least doing something more useful
00:09:17
yes or that and you're just like we're
00:09:19
not going to do this stuff anymore yes a
00:09:21
very good sign it's a sign that Senior
00:09:24
Management has gotten real yeah is being
00:09:27
intentional about the culture and system
00:09:29
of work and not copying yep um
00:09:33
especially not copying the big companies
00:09:35
this is prevalent in the big companies y
00:09:37
benefits Dalton I used to get this door
00:09:41
Dash thing and free haircuts and
00:09:44
massages and you know 16 days of
00:09:49
personal you know mental health time and
00:09:52
blah blah blah blah blah and those
00:09:55
things are going away yep my company
00:09:57
doesn't respect me and is not looking
00:10:00
out for my best interest right
00:10:04
yep again it's the sign of just like
00:10:06
getting real yeah and I think what the
00:10:10
Senior Management is looking for from
00:10:11
employees is employees that are like
00:10:13
yeah I want to work at a real place I
00:10:15
want to work on real products that help
00:10:17
real customers I want to be paid for my
00:10:20
work and compensated but please don't
00:10:22
treat me like a child and don't try
00:10:25
treat me as this fragile person who
00:10:27
can't take care of myself yes and who
00:10:31
can't make who has to be shielded from
00:10:33
the harsh world it's kind of like
00:10:35
treating people like adults well it's
00:10:37
weird because like I think some of the
00:10:39
analogies that maybe you rightfully
00:10:42
expect from a government like you expect
00:10:44
a government to create a social safety
00:10:46
net you give up taxes and you give up
00:10:50
certain rights to your government and
00:10:52
maybe you expect that in
00:10:53
return you're your the the company you
00:10:56
work for is not a government like let's
00:10:58
not have similar like it's not it's not
00:11:02
responsible for your social welfare and
00:11:05
let's be clear you're not required to
00:11:07
work in it right we're required to pay
00:11:10
taxes to the government so hey our
00:11:12
expectations that we need to get some
00:11:14
in return that company it's not the
00:11:17
same relationship and I think that
00:11:18
somehow got flipped and you know hey I
00:11:22
understand it during a pandemic shit's
00:11:25
scary and a company trying to step up
00:11:27
and do do right in a scary moment for
00:11:29
their employees makes sense but like it
00:11:31
also makes sense that when things aren't
00:11:32
scary maybe some of those practices get
00:11:35
taken away yep the environment changed
00:11:38
and so it's a really good sign if those
00:11:41
HR benefits are starting to get edited
00:11:43
yeah and it's like have you seen the
00:11:45
this genre of Tik toks which again I'm
00:11:47
pretty sure it's pretty clear the people
00:11:48
that make them they're now just doing
00:11:50
the trigger for yeah it's it's basically
00:11:52
we should make one of the but they're
00:11:55
like oh hey come join me well I do no
00:11:58
work yes job at LinkedIn and they're
00:12:00
like okay just showed up getting free
00:12:02
coffee and the day in the life is they
00:12:04
do nothing the better ones are when
00:12:06
they're working on vacation they're
00:12:09
they're not on vacation they're just in
00:12:09
the pool I saw that one yes yes it's
00:12:12
great and
00:12:13
so the correct immune response for you
00:12:17
as a colleague of these people is to
00:12:19
probably be like wow I should get a new
00:12:21
job yes yes yes and it should again it
00:12:25
should be refreshing yes if you're
00:12:27
starting to notice this being put aside
00:12:30
yes right that's a good sign that's a
00:12:32
very good sign and and hey some people
00:12:34
can be disappointed right some people
00:12:36
have adjusted to a lifestyle that's not
00:12:39
sustainable and when the company's like
00:12:41
hey we don't need you anymore they're
00:12:43
sad and like once again I still blame
00:12:46
the Founders because like I
00:12:48
don't think that was reasonable to start
00:12:50
but you what's better like not
00:12:53
correcting the error yep or correcting
00:12:56
the error right yeah I mean ultimately
00:13:00
fake work jobs make a lot of people sad
00:13:04
and it is dystopian and it is like the
00:13:06
Matrix or it is like you're a drone in a
00:13:08
machine where you're like I do work that
00:13:11
doesn't matter I don't even need to work
00:13:13
no one cares about my work output my
00:13:16
life is a joke yeah that does not create
00:13:18
happy people that are like satisfied
00:13:20
with Society not good for mental health
00:13:22
not good for mental health and so I
00:13:24
think it's really good to feel like
00:13:26
you're working somewhere where your
00:13:27
colleagues Your Man management the
00:13:29
founders of the company whoever it is
00:13:31
take things really seriously and they
00:13:32
themselves are not checked out that
00:13:34
should be motivating and if you don't
00:13:35
feel like you work at a place like that
00:13:37
maybe you should consider Mo you know
00:13:39
working somewhere else or starting your
00:13:41
own company yeah because I think you'll
00:13:43
be a lot happier yeah yes yeah I got one
00:13:46
for you here's a controversial one you
00:13:48
know during Peak Zer Dalton when my
00:13:50
company was infected with zpes I was
00:13:53
working three days a week and I got to
00:13:55
enjoy a lot of hobbies I got to travel I
00:13:57
live the nomadic lifestyle and I felt
00:13:59
like I had great work life balance this
00:14:02
week my boss asked me to do something
00:14:04
over the
00:14:05
weekend that is a
00:14:10
violation you should report him to HR I
00:14:13
think I
00:14:14
saw problem on Michael he reporting
00:14:18
HR I have to work more is a sign your
00:14:23
company's recovery from zerp
00:14:29
takes a lot of hard work to make a good
00:14:31
company happen and especially in these
00:14:34
kind of large scale upy pre-ipo
00:14:36
companies there's a lot of work to do
00:14:39
like it's so easy to think you're at
00:14:42
Google when you're not at Google yep and
00:14:45
you have to turn your eyes on and your
00:14:47
brain on for five seconds and then be
00:14:49
like oh this isn't Google I have to work
00:14:52
really hard like I'm still part of
00:14:54
making this thing happen this thing
00:14:56
could still not make it yeah well and
00:14:59
The Hangover isn't over again I think
00:15:02
this is part of why we're making this
00:15:03
video now not like a year ago is zero
00:15:07
interest rate stopped a while ago yes
00:15:10
but there's a lot of slow unwinding of
00:15:12
all this stuff it's literally taking
00:15:14
years yes for the course correction to
00:15:16
happen it's not done yet not done well
00:15:19
and I mean if we're just telling an
00:15:22
employee for a second to be
00:15:24
strategic hey make like one it's great
00:15:27
if you're working at a company that's
00:15:28
recovering from are P two can you be on
00:15:30
the right side of the recovery right
00:15:32
like like you you don't want to be seen
00:15:36
as part of the problem you want to be
00:15:37
seen as part of the recovery yep and
00:15:40
what I will say is that maybe you feel
00:15:43
burned because those efforts during Zer
00:15:45
weren't rewarded but if you're at the
00:15:47
right kind of company those efforts will
00:15:49
only be rewarded more and more now like
00:15:52
and we see that in Spades like when
00:15:55
people wake up and they start taking
00:15:57
account for hey what have you done
00:16:00
[Laughter]
00:16:03
yeah eventually the hard workers get
00:16:05
ahead eventually they get ahead all
00:16:08
right so I think we want to summarize
00:16:11
this kind of how we said in the
00:16:12
beginning it might be hard if you're
00:16:14
working at a company recovering from
00:16:16
zpes like like your lifestyle might be
00:16:19
taking a hit if you're actually doing
00:16:22
this so that you can make a great
00:16:23
product serve customers make the world a
00:16:25
better place actually learn skills be a
00:16:28
part of a team it's doing things you're
00:16:30
going to learn a lot more you are I mean
00:16:32
this is like the decision between going
00:16:34
to a challenging school and not
00:16:36
challenging school right like you're
00:16:37
going to learn more challenging school
00:16:38
and you're going to learn more around
00:16:40
people who want to be at a challenging
00:16:42
school you're going to learn more you're
00:16:44
going to have so much more fun being
00:16:46
with people who want to work hard versus
00:16:48
people who want to be on permanent
00:16:51
nomadic yep whatever so suck up the
00:16:55
pain you know deal with it and um
00:16:59
consume the benefits of that and if you
00:17:03
are at a company that is not recovering
00:17:06
from zpes and there's evidence of zpes
00:17:09
everywhere what do you do yeah you might
00:17:12
want to find a different job or you
00:17:14
might want to start a company you might
00:17:15
want to bootstrap you might want to work
00:17:17
for yourself there's lots of choices
00:17:19
like yeah if you want to live a very
00:17:20
flexible lifestyle there are ways to
00:17:21
work for yourself and pull that off
00:17:24
but be careful where you are because it
00:17:27
might not be around up yep all right
00:17:30
good shat thanks
00:17:37
[Music]
