Marathon doesn't make sense

00:27:02
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X24gWx2YRoA

Resumen

TLDRThe video analyzes the negative discourse surrounding Bungie's upcoming game "Marathon", rooted in the studio's troubled history and reputation. As Bungie shifts from their successful PvE design to a hero-based extraction shooter model, the speaker expresses concern over player skepticism, poor monetization practices, and the game's overall viability in a competitive market. The historical significance of the original Marathon game is highlighted, and the lack of trust from Destiny players is discussed, questioning whether Marathon can attract a loyal audience and succeed financially despite its potentially appealing concepts.

Para llevar

  • ☀️ The speaker had a sunburn from being briefly exposed to sunlight.
  • 🎮 Marathon is facing skepticism due to Bungie's troubled history.
  • 📉 Player trust in Bungie has been eroded due to past mistakes.
  • 🛠️ The pivot to an extraction shooter may alienate core players.
  • 📊 The game's monetization strategy is a potential point of failure.
  • 🚀 There is potential for an audience, but it's uncertain how large it will be.
  • 🤖 The gameplay focus on hero-based mechanics is controversial.
  • ⏳ Time will tell if Marathon can succeed in a competitive market.
  • 🔍 Criticism stems from distrust, not just the game itself.
  • 🎊 The speaker hopes for a good game despite their skepticism.

Cronología

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    The speaker reflects on the public confusion surrounding Bungie's upcoming game, Marathon, noting a significant level of skepticism and criticism aimed at both the game and the developer. They argue that the toxic reputation and previous missteps of Bungie have led to a challenging environment for players to feel optimistic about the new title, hinting that the issues lie more with Bungie than with Marathon as a game.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    A historical overview of Bungie's previous title, Marathon, sheds light on its legacy in the developer's early years, alongside its catastrophic error that nearly led to their bankruptcy. This history frames the current release of Marathon as a risky endeavor for Bungie, as they hinge their reputation on a now three-player PvE-PVP extraction shooter in a changing gaming landscape, which has not met the expected excitement and optimism from fans.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    The distinct characteristics of Marathon as a game genre—niche and competitive—create questions about its viability in a market that has handled similar titles poorly. Additionally, the game's apparent lack of depth and Bungie's seemingly sell-out approach to mechanics have resulted in further backlash against the title, which appears out of touch with their long-standing player base and characterizes the developer as chasing trends instead of innovating.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Bungie's decision to exclude features like proximity chat, framed as a move for safety, has been criticized as undermining the tension and excitement found in similar games. Their dismissal of player requests for PvE content has raised eyebrows, as many feel the developers are ignoring their loyal Destiny fanbase in favor of a new audience while simultaneously alienating the existing community.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:27:02

    Discussions surrounding the monetization strategies for Marathon underscore broader issues about Bungie's trustworthiness. The planned monetization, which includes a higher price point along with battle passes and microtransactions, raises concerns about the game’s ability to attract and maintain players. The speaker expresses skepticism regarding the potential success of the game, citing Bungie's past failures and the industry's unpredictability, while still holding out hope for its quality.

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Vídeo de preguntas y respuestas

  • What is the primary focus of the video?

    The video critiques Bungie's upcoming game "Marathon" and discusses the skepticism surrounding it.

  • What historical context does the video provide about Marathon?

    It discusses the original Marathon game's impact on Bungie's early reputation and subsequent shift to the Halo franchise.

  • What concerns does the speaker have about Marathon's gameplay?

    The speaker criticizes the lack of PvE content and the game's focus on hero-based extraction mechanics.

  • How does the video describe Bungie's reputation?

    Bungie's reputation is described as troubled due to past mistakes and predatory monetization practices.

  • What does the speaker think about the future of Marathon?

    The speaker is skeptical about Marathon's success, citing the competitive nature of the market and Bungie's past actions.

  • Does the speaker believe Marathon will flop?

    The speaker does not think Marathon will flop entirely, but doubts it will meet high expectations.

  • What does the speaker suggest about player trust?

    The speaker asserts that Bungie's actions have eroded player trust, leading to skepticism towards new releases.

  • What are the implications of the game's monetization strategy?

    The premium price tag combined with microtransactions may alienate potential players.

  • How does the video compare Marathon to other successful games?

    It contrasts Marathon with games like "Hell Divers 2" that earned player respect through ethical monetization.

  • What does the speaker hope for the game's release?

    Despite skepticism, the speaker hopes for a successful and enjoyable game release.

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Desplazamiento automático:
  • 00:00:00
    don't make fun of me for the minor
  • 00:00:01
    sunburn i looked out the window for 5
  • 00:00:02
    seconds and this was the result of it
  • 00:00:04
    but it's been wild for me to sit back
  • 00:00:06
    and watch as people have been visibly
  • 00:00:08
    confused over the reception of Bungie's
  • 00:00:11
    upcoming game Marathon and I've seen
  • 00:00:15
    writers I've seen journalists I've seen
  • 00:00:16
    commentators and content creators and
  • 00:00:18
    fans all sitting back going "I'm just so
  • 00:00:21
    sick of how toxic things have become how
  • 00:00:24
    could you be so critical of something
  • 00:00:25
    that's not even out yet?"
  • 00:00:28
    It's almost like we haven't been for the
  • 00:00:30
    better part of the last decade watching
  • 00:00:32
    as these companies have been torching
  • 00:00:33
    their reputation at both ends while also
  • 00:00:36
    at the exact same time bending these
  • 00:00:38
    players over backwards taking advantage
  • 00:00:41
    of them you want these guys to be
  • 00:00:44
    optimistic
  • 00:00:46
    what marathon doesn't have an uphill
  • 00:00:49
    battle it has a mountain to climb and
  • 00:00:51
    that's not a mountain that the players
  • 00:00:52
    put there that's an obstacle Bungie put
  • 00:00:55
    there it's not that Marathon as a game
  • 00:00:57
    conceptually can't find an audience i do
  • 00:00:59
    think an audience is there for it how
  • 00:01:01
    big that is that's a completely
  • 00:01:02
    different story but its biggest issues
  • 00:01:05
    aren't tied to the game it's tied to
  • 00:01:07
    Bungie so today what I want to do is I
  • 00:01:09
    want to talk about the negative
  • 00:01:11
    discourse that's surrounding Marathon
  • 00:01:13
    right now i want to talk about why it is
  • 00:01:15
    the way that it is i want to talk about
  • 00:01:16
    how Sony and Bungie have essentially
  • 00:01:18
    clipped its wings before it can even fly
  • 00:01:21
    and I'd like to talk about whether or
  • 00:01:22
    not Marathon can run or fall flat on its
  • 00:01:25
    face spoiler it's going to be a little
  • 00:01:28
    bit of both just last week Bungie
  • 00:01:30
    finally pulled back the curtain on their
  • 00:01:31
    upcoming extraction shooter Marathon a
  • 00:01:33
    name that echoes from the depths of the
  • 00:01:35
    studios past for those that are
  • 00:01:37
    unfamiliar Marathon wasn't just one of
  • 00:01:39
    Bungie's earliest projects it was their
  • 00:01:41
    beginning originally developed for the
  • 00:01:42
    Mac in the mid '90s the Marathon Trilogy
  • 00:01:44
    gave Bungie its first taste of
  • 00:01:46
    recognition but it also nearly killed
  • 00:01:48
    them one of the games in the series was
  • 00:01:50
    shipped with a critical error that no
  • 00:01:52
    exaggeration was wiping players hard
  • 00:01:54
    drives upon installation the backlash
  • 00:01:56
    for this was catastrophic bungie was
  • 00:01:58
    drowning in returns and on the verge of
  • 00:02:00
    bankruptcy and to survive they ended up
  • 00:02:02
    cutting a deal with Microsoft and in
  • 00:02:04
    exchange for covering the damages Bungie
  • 00:02:06
    would develop a new project for
  • 00:02:07
    Microsoft and their upcoming console the
  • 00:02:10
    original Xbox that project was Halo so
  • 00:02:12
    in a way Marathon was both the origin of
  • 00:02:15
    Bungie's fame and their near-death
  • 00:02:17
    experience that then forced them into
  • 00:02:18
    pivoting into a franchise that made them
  • 00:02:20
    into legends now here we are three
  • 00:02:22
    decades later they're dusting off that
  • 00:02:24
    legacy and they're gambling with fate
  • 00:02:26
    all over again now this new marathon
  • 00:02:28
    controversially enough is set to be a
  • 00:02:30
    three-player squad-based PVEP extraction
  • 00:02:32
    shooter players are going to be taking
  • 00:02:33
    on the role of runners humans that have
  • 00:02:35
    abandoned their mortal bodies for sleek
  • 00:02:37
    cybernetic shells chasing fame and
  • 00:02:39
    fortune across the ruins of Taetti after
  • 00:02:41
    a mysterious calamity had wiped out the
  • 00:02:43
    planet's researchers corporations had
  • 00:02:45
    stepped in sponsoring these runners to
  • 00:02:47
    come in and scavenge whatever's left
  • 00:02:49
    tech data secrets whatever they can get
  • 00:02:50
    their hands on players are going to
  • 00:02:52
    battle with hostile AI sentinels alien
  • 00:02:54
    threats and other squads in a race to
  • 00:02:56
    well extract before being wiped out
  • 00:02:59
    bungie has also gone on to hint a little
  • 00:03:01
    bit more at larger scale events as well
  • 00:03:03
    boss encounters dungeons maybe even some
  • 00:03:04
    Destiny style raids if we're lucky that
  • 00:03:06
    might be hiding underneath the surface
  • 00:03:08
    of this game now on paper this should
  • 00:03:10
    have been a slam dunk a major studio
  • 00:03:12
    with one of the strongest FPS pedigrees
  • 00:03:14
    in all of gaming reviving a long dormant
  • 00:03:16
    IP creating a very distinctl looking
  • 00:03:18
    sci-fi world within a genre that really
  • 00:03:20
    isn't all that overcrowded five or six
  • 00:03:22
    years ago I think this would have lit
  • 00:03:23
    the gaming world on fire but times have
  • 00:03:26
    changed my friends and this game's
  • 00:03:27
    reception couldn't have been any colder
  • 00:03:29
    instead of hype the announcement was met
  • 00:03:31
    with skepticism sarcasm and exhaustion
  • 00:03:34
    twitter Reddit YouTube go ahead and pick
  • 00:03:35
    your platform doesn't really matter
  • 00:03:36
    where you're looking because very few
  • 00:03:38
    players were impressed and even fewer
  • 00:03:40
    were optimistic day overday as more
  • 00:03:42
    information has been revealed the
  • 00:03:43
    backlash against both Bungie and
  • 00:03:45
    Marathon has only gotten worse i think
  • 00:03:48
    the first red flag of this reveal was
  • 00:03:50
    the genre itself marathon is a
  • 00:03:51
    hero-based extraction shooter that alone
  • 00:03:53
    is going to raise some eyebrows while
  • 00:03:54
    Bungie definitely has a long history of
  • 00:03:56
    being praised for its PvP and Halo and
  • 00:03:58
    Destiny what's truly made them who they
  • 00:04:01
    are is their PvE content say what you
  • 00:04:03
    will about Destiny's monetization and
  • 00:04:05
    its seasonal bloat believe me we'll talk
  • 00:04:06
    about that later but there is a reason
  • 00:04:09
    why their raids and dungeons are
  • 00:04:10
    considered the gold standard for MMO
  • 00:04:12
    styled action combat beyond that keep in
  • 00:04:15
    mind that this game doesn't seem to have
  • 00:04:17
    any narrative and it's not going to
  • 00:04:18
    feature any type of PVE cooperative
  • 00:04:21
    modes yet Bungie has built their entire
  • 00:04:23
    empire on cinematic storytelling
  • 00:04:25
    memorable characters and finely tuned
  • 00:04:27
    cooperative play so this sudden pivot
  • 00:04:29
    into a genre that appeals to a
  • 00:04:31
    completely different audience of player
  • 00:04:33
    just doesn't really make a whole lot of
  • 00:04:35
    sense it doesn't align with what their
  • 00:04:37
    audience wants it feels like trend
  • 00:04:38
    chasing plain and simple and on top of
  • 00:04:41
    that the extraction shooter genre is
  • 00:04:43
    brutal there are really only what two
  • 00:04:45
    success stories that we have Escape from
  • 00:04:46
    Tarov and Hunt Showdown nearly every
  • 00:04:49
    other attempt has faceplanted after
  • 00:04:51
    launch because these games are niche by
  • 00:04:53
    design they're not meant to be easily
  • 00:04:55
    digestible or streamlined experiences
  • 00:04:57
    their very appeal lies in their
  • 00:04:59
    punishing loops the tension the
  • 00:05:00
    messiness the lack of handholding the
  • 00:05:02
    moment you try to sand off the edges to
  • 00:05:04
    appeal to a broader audience you kill
  • 00:05:06
    what makes these games special simplify
  • 00:05:08
    the loot in the game feels hollow add
  • 00:05:10
    revives and you cut the stakes throw in
  • 00:05:12
    flashy abilities and you undermine
  • 00:05:13
    player skill any of these changes tells
  • 00:05:16
    fans of that genre that this studio
  • 00:05:18
    doesn't understand what they're building
  • 00:05:20
    and Bungie is already making all of
  • 00:05:22
    those changes i mean case in point
  • 00:05:24
    there's no proximity chat in Marathon
  • 00:05:25
    because according to Bungie it would be
  • 00:05:27
    way too toxic i am so sick of this by
  • 00:05:30
    the way this constant desire to soften
  • 00:05:32
    and sanitize the edges of every gaming
  • 00:05:34
    experience this isn't making games safer
  • 00:05:37
    it's making them less interesting the
  • 00:05:38
    only thing that's safe about them is
  • 00:05:40
    nobody's going to be playing them in an
  • 00:05:42
    extraction shooter proximity chat isn't
  • 00:05:44
    just flavor it's function it creates
  • 00:05:46
    emergent unforgettable moments i cannot
  • 00:05:48
    tell you guys how many times I've run
  • 00:05:50
    into another player while playing Escape
  • 00:05:52
    from Tarov adrenaline pumping we're
  • 00:05:54
    awkwardly trying to negotiate a
  • 00:05:56
    ceasefire maybe we part ways peacefully
  • 00:05:58
    maybe we actually team up maybe we
  • 00:06:00
    betray each other in the next 5 minutes
  • 00:06:02
    that tension that unpredictability
  • 00:06:04
    that's what makes this genre bungie
  • 00:06:07
    stripping it out in the name of safety
  • 00:06:08
    shows that either they don't get it or
  • 00:06:10
    they're too afraid to embrace it now if
  • 00:06:12
    that wasn't enough and I really love
  • 00:06:14
    this part i love when these developers
  • 00:06:16
    do this but when fans were asking if the
  • 00:06:18
    game would include more PvE focused
  • 00:06:19
    content maybe offer some options down
  • 00:06:22
    the road for players that want something
  • 00:06:23
    more cooperative over competitive
  • 00:06:25
    encounters Bungie responded with oh
  • 00:06:28
    everybody's favorite line "This game
  • 00:06:30
    isn't made for you." Telling fans of
  • 00:06:32
    Destiny PvE that they don't recommend
  • 00:06:34
    Marathon to them seriously that's the
  • 00:06:36
    message that you guys want to be sending
  • 00:06:37
    to the Destiny community the same people
  • 00:06:39
    that have funded the game that you're
  • 00:06:41
    making right now through years of
  • 00:06:43
    support expansions and microtransactions
  • 00:06:45
    that they purchased in Destiny 2 bungie
  • 00:06:47
    isn't just ignoring their core audience
  • 00:06:49
    here they are actively alienating them
  • 00:06:51
    it is baffling to me how many of these
  • 00:06:53
    studios continue to make the exact same
  • 00:06:55
    mistake treating genuine questions like
  • 00:06:58
    they're nuisances instead of an
  • 00:07:00
    opportunity maybe just maybe if Bungie
  • 00:07:02
    was paying attention they would realize
  • 00:07:04
    that players generally like the idea of
  • 00:07:06
    a PvE focused experience where they can
  • 00:07:09
    then take what they earn into a more
  • 00:07:11
    highstakes PvP mode it's the one thing
  • 00:07:13
    that players have been waiting for and
  • 00:07:15
    they've been wanting to get from Tarov
  • 00:07:17
    and arguably Bungie has the better skill
  • 00:07:19
    set to deliver imagine of having a co-op
  • 00:07:22
    PvE exploration mode or narrative mode
  • 00:07:24
    where you can go and build your wealth
  • 00:07:26
    skill and arsenal and then go and take
  • 00:07:28
    that into an extraction mode where
  • 00:07:30
    there's more risk where there's more
  • 00:07:32
    reward where the challenge is even
  • 00:07:34
    greater players want that that sounds
  • 00:07:36
    like a great game that a lot of people
  • 00:07:38
    would want to play i do not understand
  • 00:07:40
    how you miss a layup like this now
  • 00:07:42
    you're sitting there saying to yourself
  • 00:07:44
    "It just can't get any worse LD it can't
  • 00:07:46
    get worse." Baby it's 2025 of course it
  • 00:07:49
    can marathon while only launching with
  • 00:07:52
    six playable characters and three maps
  • 00:07:54
    is not going to be free to play it's a
  • 00:07:56
    premium title and not only will players
  • 00:07:58
    have to pay upfront the game will also
  • 00:08:00
    launch with battle passes
  • 00:08:02
    microtransactions and premium content
  • 00:08:05
    bungie said it would be a premium
  • 00:08:06
    product and through their official
  • 00:08:08
    marathon Twitter later then clarified
  • 00:08:10
    saying that it won't be full price and
  • 00:08:12
    details will come later likely pointing
  • 00:08:14
    to Sony's strategy of pricing live
  • 00:08:17
    service titles around $40 like Hell
  • 00:08:19
    Divers 2 Foam Stars and Concord noticing
  • 00:08:21
    that only one of those games survived
  • 00:08:24
    now I've seen a lot of people trying to
  • 00:08:26
    defend this and I got something to say
  • 00:08:28
    to you by the way people making
  • 00:08:30
    comparisons to Hell Divers 2 you clearly
  • 00:08:32
    haven't played it that game earned its
  • 00:08:34
    $40 price tag through ethical
  • 00:08:35
    monetization and great gameplay every
  • 00:08:37
    cosmetic every battle pass every
  • 00:08:39
    microtransaction in Hell Divers 2 can be
  • 00:08:42
    earned through gameplay their battle
  • 00:08:44
    passes don't expire the grind is fair
  • 00:08:46
    players feel respected that's the key
  • 00:08:48
    bungie on the other hand has one of the
  • 00:08:51
    worst reputations in the entire industry
  • 00:08:53
    for monetization between Destiny 2's
  • 00:08:55
    constantly shifting economy disappearing
  • 00:08:57
    content and overpriced cosmetics there
  • 00:09:00
    is no reason at all to believe that
  • 00:09:02
    Marathon will offer anything close to
  • 00:09:04
    the level of goodwill of Hell Divers 2
  • 00:09:06
    sony saw the success of Hell Divers 2
  • 00:09:08
    and took the wrong lesson they saw the
  • 00:09:10
    price point not the philosophy behind it
  • 00:09:13
    i guess at least we can say that Sony
  • 00:09:14
    did learn one good lesson from Hell
  • 00:09:16
    Divers 2 and they will not be requiring
  • 00:09:18
    players to have a PlayStation account on
  • 00:09:20
    PC or Xbox to be able to play Marathon
  • 00:09:23
    so what's my take on all this honestly I
  • 00:09:26
    like these kind of games i genuinely do
  • 00:09:29
    i dig the aesthetic the world looks
  • 00:09:30
    really intriguing and I know Bungie's
  • 00:09:32
    gunplay is still some of the best in the
  • 00:09:34
    business with that said I'm incredibly
  • 00:09:37
    skeptical whether or not they can pull
  • 00:09:39
    this off i do not like the hero shooter
  • 00:09:41
    angle those character designs look
  • 00:09:43
    painfully weak the gameplay looks
  • 00:09:45
    painfully slow they are charging a
  • 00:09:47
    premium price they are known for
  • 00:09:48
    predatory monetization and they are
  • 00:09:50
    already making compromises on what makes
  • 00:09:52
    this sort of game special you guys are
  • 00:09:54
    entering into one of the most
  • 00:09:55
    competitive and unforgiving markets in
  • 00:09:57
    this industry the bodies of dead live
  • 00:09:59
    service games stretch as high as the
  • 00:10:01
    unemployment lines are long and you're
  • 00:10:03
    making a bet on a genre that has far
  • 00:10:06
    more casualties than it does successes
  • 00:10:08
    but you guys think you can do it better
  • 00:10:10
    i feel like this is just another chapter
  • 00:10:12
    in this industry's ongoing identity
  • 00:10:14
    crisis we've reached the tail end of the
  • 00:10:16
    battle royale boom these publishers are
  • 00:10:18
    now scrambling trying to figure out what
  • 00:10:19
    comes next extraction shooters to them
  • 00:10:22
    seem like the next big experiment but I
  • 00:10:24
    don't think they're it they're just too
  • 00:10:26
    niche for a broad audience and broad
  • 00:10:28
    audiences aren't what Bungie is trying
  • 00:10:30
    to target most players are going to lean
  • 00:10:32
    hard in either one side or the other
  • 00:10:34
    either PvE or PvP focused games forcing
  • 00:10:37
    both of them together narrows that
  • 00:10:39
    appeal and any compromise that you're
  • 00:10:41
    going to make to try to cater to one
  • 00:10:42
    side or the other ultimately will ruin
  • 00:10:44
    this game for everyone now that's not to
  • 00:10:46
    say that Marathon can't find success but
  • 00:10:48
    I do think the kind of success that
  • 00:10:49
    Bungie and Sony are banking on is a
  • 00:10:52
    fantasy especially if they're charging a
  • 00:10:54
    premium price on top of battle passes
  • 00:10:56
    and microtransactions you're putting up
  • 00:10:58
    a payw wall around a game that lives or
  • 00:11:00
    dies by player engagement it makes no
  • 00:11:02
    sense to me you are actively pushing
  • 00:11:04
    away the very people that might have
  • 00:11:06
    just tried the game out of curiosity
  • 00:11:08
    people who might have liked it stuck
  • 00:11:09
    around and maybe even brought their
  • 00:11:10
    friends with them now I realize this is
  • 00:11:12
    going to be a relatively cold take but I
  • 00:11:14
    just do not see the logic in charging an
  • 00:11:16
    upfront cost for something that is
  • 00:11:18
    effectively a free-to-play model when
  • 00:11:20
    your business depends on keeping players
  • 00:11:21
    around for the long term the only thing
  • 00:11:23
    that matters is how many people you can
  • 00:11:25
    get in the door and how long you can
  • 00:11:27
    keep them there i'm going to tell it to
  • 00:11:28
    you guys straight i think a lot of
  • 00:11:29
    people are preaching platitudes when it
  • 00:11:31
    comes to this game i think that Sony
  • 00:11:33
    spent $400 million on Concord how much
  • 00:11:35
    are they willing to spend on a Bungie
  • 00:11:37
    live service title i would guarantee
  • 00:11:39
    there's some serious cash that flew into
  • 00:11:40
    this not only that but they spent $3
  • 00:11:43
    billion acquiring that company they
  • 00:11:46
    cannot afford for this game to be niche
  • 00:11:48
    but that's exactly what this game is
  • 00:11:50
    going to be because that's just what
  • 00:11:51
    this genre is and keep in mind that
  • 00:11:54
    Destiny 2 has not been financially
  • 00:11:56
    viable or at least not as profitable as
  • 00:11:58
    Sony needed it to be when they purchased
  • 00:12:00
    Bungie for that $3 billion so yeah this
  • 00:12:04
    can't be a niche game it needs to be a
  • 00:12:06
    breakout hit they needed to be a Hell
  • 00:12:07
    Divers 2 they needed no they needed to
  • 00:12:09
    be a Marvel rivals or even something
  • 00:12:10
    bigger than that and maintain that speed
  • 00:12:14
    not just have it fall off after a week
  • 00:12:16
    or two or something like that this
  • 00:12:18
    already looks like a high-risisk gamble
  • 00:12:19
    in a genre that just cannot compete with
  • 00:12:22
    the kind of numbers that both Sony and
  • 00:12:24
    Bungie are going to be looking for and
  • 00:12:26
    you're already giving players plenty of
  • 00:12:28
    reasons not to even try the game let
  • 00:12:29
    alone play it i'm just saying try it or
  • 00:12:32
    even be interested in it $40 for a live
  • 00:12:35
    service game with all of the trappings
  • 00:12:38
    no proximity chat what are you guys
  • 00:12:40
    thinking who's making these
  • 00:12:43
    decisions you know ironically if I was a
  • 00:12:46
    publisher and I wanted to make a
  • 00:12:47
    profitable live service game you know
  • 00:12:49
    what I would make destiny but just not
  • 00:12:52
    Destiny or Warframe i think there is a
  • 00:12:54
    general genuine hunger from players that
  • 00:12:57
    want an MMO light action RPG experience
  • 00:13:01
    that doesn't have players that have 10
  • 00:13:03
    years of experience in front of them
  • 00:13:04
    they want a even start they want to be
  • 00:13:08
    on the ground level with everybody else
  • 00:13:10
    and I think that the First Descended
  • 00:13:12
    show that I I think that it also showed
  • 00:13:14
    that if your game's not good the players
  • 00:13:16
    aren't going to stick around but I think
  • 00:13:17
    that showed a general hunger for
  • 00:13:18
    something in the live service market
  • 00:13:20
    that isn't there right now or at least
  • 00:13:21
    players aren't seeing that's there and
  • 00:13:24
    for Marathon I just don't see that same
  • 00:13:26
    kind of draw and I don't think this
  • 00:13:28
    money sorry I don't think this game is
  • 00:13:30
    going to make its money back i just
  • 00:13:31
    don't see it happening now with that
  • 00:13:34
    said I still think that this launch is
  • 00:13:36
    going to be a big deal bungie's name
  • 00:13:38
    still carries weight we're talking about
  • 00:13:40
    the people that made Halo and Destiny
  • 00:13:42
    and for a lot of people that's all
  • 00:13:44
    you're going to need there going to be
  • 00:13:45
    people that are going to line up to buy
  • 00:13:46
    this game just off of the name alone not
  • 00:13:48
    a lot of people are involved in these
  • 00:13:50
    kind of conversations we saw the same
  • 00:13:51
    kind of thing with Assassin's Creed
  • 00:13:53
    Shadows though we don't necessarily know
  • 00:13:54
    exactly how profitable or how popular
  • 00:13:56
    that game actually is but it makes a lot
  • 00:13:59
    of sense as to why people would be
  • 00:14:01
    confused by the general discourse
  • 00:14:03
    surrounding Marathon right now they see
  • 00:14:05
    the negativity they see the identity
  • 00:14:08
    politics and things like that the
  • 00:14:09
    heavy-handed criticisms and they all
  • 00:14:12
    look at it and ask you know why are you
  • 00:14:14
    rooting for something to fail that's not
  • 00:14:16
    even out yet and I think boiling down
  • 00:14:19
    all that into toxic like toxicity and
  • 00:14:22
    ideological hate misses the point
  • 00:14:25
    entirely people do not trust Bungie and
  • 00:14:28
    people do not trust Sony and you're
  • 00:14:30
    putting them in the same room together
  • 00:14:33
    and that just that's not a good
  • 00:14:34
    combination that's not what players are
  • 00:14:36
    looking for and I think that this game
  • 00:14:39
    is going to show them it is going
  • 00:14:41
    to both of these companies are going to
  • 00:14:44
    suffer the consequences of taking
  • 00:14:47
    advantage of the very players that they
  • 00:14:49
    need for this game to succeed trust has
  • 00:14:51
    been a reoccurring theme in some of my
  • 00:14:53
    recent videos and Marathon might be the
  • 00:14:55
    best case study yet that we've seen for
  • 00:14:57
    what happens to a studio when it's
  • 00:14:59
    burned through it entirely what the
  • 00:15:00
    media publishers developers and even
  • 00:15:02
    other players often miss out on it's not
  • 00:15:05
    just the tone that matters when it comes
  • 00:15:07
    to criticism it's the source where is
  • 00:15:09
    all of this unrest coming from as a
  • 00:15:12
    studio your foundation for your next
  • 00:15:14
    game should be the players that you
  • 00:15:15
    already have you build trust with them
  • 00:15:17
    you reward their loyalty you grow from
  • 00:15:19
    there you do not abandon them to go
  • 00:15:21
    chase an audience that you never even
  • 00:15:23
    had especially when that audience that
  • 00:15:25
    you do have is already skeptical but
  • 00:15:28
    that's exactly what Bungie is doing here
  • 00:15:30
    because I don't think that Destiny
  • 00:15:32
    players want Marathon and I don't think
  • 00:15:33
    the outsiders looking in are any more
  • 00:15:35
    convinced after seeing how Bungie treats
  • 00:15:37
    its own customers and their staff they
  • 00:15:40
    have turned their reputation into a
  • 00:15:41
    currency and they've spent all of it
  • 00:15:43
    sure some criticisms may be hyperbolic
  • 00:15:46
    and yeah in today's political climate
  • 00:15:47
    it's easy to fall back on ideological
  • 00:15:50
    explanations but let's set all of that
  • 00:15:52
    aside for a second look at what's
  • 00:15:54
    actually going on here let's look at the
  • 00:15:56
    history here look at Destiny 2 why would
  • 00:15:58
    anyone trust Bungie why would anyone
  • 00:16:00
    want to get excited for their next game
  • 00:16:03
    destiny 2 brought with it a slow
  • 00:16:04
    relentless shift into predatory
  • 00:16:06
    monetization in-game rewards were
  • 00:16:08
    stripped away and moved into the
  • 00:16:09
    Eververse store then came content
  • 00:16:11
    vaulting an entire expansion that
  • 00:16:13
    players had paid for removed from the
  • 00:16:15
    game no refunds no apologies no real
  • 00:16:17
    benefit for the players then they
  • 00:16:19
    started sunsetting weapons that players
  • 00:16:20
    had grinded for invalidating progress
  • 00:16:23
    all in the name of balance only for them
  • 00:16:24
    to reverse course on that later then
  • 00:16:27
    Sony bought them for $3.6 billion
  • 00:16:29
    players were promised they were told
  • 00:16:32
    that things would get better more
  • 00:16:33
    transparency faster content better
  • 00:16:35
    communication instead monetization got
  • 00:16:38
    worse content got buggier and the
  • 00:16:39
    development cycle slowed to a crawl then
  • 00:16:42
    came the layoff sony started gutting the
  • 00:16:43
    studio cutting narrative leads and
  • 00:16:45
    veteran developers the same people who
  • 00:16:46
    built what fans loved were then tossed
  • 00:16:49
    aside reports of crunch discrimination
  • 00:16:51
    and a toxic workplace then followed
  • 00:16:53
    lawsuits then after that all coming from
  • 00:16:55
    a studio that constantly paraded around
  • 00:16:57
    its progressive values in public but
  • 00:16:59
    apparently all for nothing and after all
  • 00:17:02
    of that what do players get they got
  • 00:17:03
    Lightfall a broken bloated recycled
  • 00:17:06
    expansion that felt more like filler and
  • 00:17:08
    cost the same as a fullpriced title you
  • 00:17:10
    know let's not forget that this is the
  • 00:17:12
    same Bungie that charges $150 for a
  • 00:17:14
    free-to-play game though Steam estimates
  • 00:17:16
    it'll cost you over $450 if it's not all
  • 00:17:19
    in a bundle for Destiny 2 there are
  • 00:17:21
    battle passes paid dungeons cosmetic
  • 00:17:23
    bundles event cards paywalled expansions
  • 00:17:25
    and a $60 expansion cycle while it
  • 00:17:28
    definitely seems that the game's latest
  • 00:17:30
    expansion was received well why would
  • 00:17:32
    players be excited for anything that
  • 00:17:34
    Bungie then puts out after this they
  • 00:17:36
    don't trust them and frankly they
  • 00:17:38
    shouldn't there's no loyalty left no
  • 00:17:40
    goodwill just the appearance of a studio
  • 00:17:41
    that's looking for new ways to squeeze
  • 00:17:43
    the last few dollars out of whoever's
  • 00:17:45
    left around this is one of the reasons
  • 00:17:46
    why they keep losing players and when
  • 00:17:49
    you treat players like disposable
  • 00:17:50
    wallets you can't be surprised when they
  • 00:17:52
    treat your next project like a joke
  • 00:17:54
    bungie and Sony are gambling with their
  • 00:17:56
    franchises betting everything on growth
  • 00:17:58
    on shareholder satisfaction on live
  • 00:18:01
    service revenue but you don't build
  • 00:18:03
    trust by gambling you build it with
  • 00:18:05
    respect and right now that respect is
  • 00:18:07
    gone and look I get it i know that the
  • 00:18:09
    discourse around games has gotten more
  • 00:18:11
    toxic but so has the way that players
  • 00:18:13
    have been treated studios are demanding
  • 00:18:15
    more money offering less value and when
  • 00:18:17
    players push back they're dismissed
  • 00:18:19
    they're mocked they're told that this
  • 00:18:20
    game isn't made for you this isn't about
  • 00:18:22
    ideology this is the direct result of
  • 00:18:24
    corporate bloat of chasing endless
  • 00:18:26
    growth in an industry that's already
  • 00:18:28
    overextended eventually you're going to
  • 00:18:30
    hit a ceiling you're going to outpace
  • 00:18:32
    your own audience and when you can't
  • 00:18:34
    pull in any more players the only thing
  • 00:18:36
    that's left to do is to bleed the ones
  • 00:18:38
    that you already have dry how can you
  • 00:18:40
    blame these players for being skeptical
  • 00:18:42
    or negative when they're treated this
  • 00:18:44
    way i mean if we take the time to look
  • 00:18:46
    at all these criticisms through a lens
  • 00:18:48
    of distrust it all starts to make sense
  • 00:18:50
    take Marathon's character designs i
  • 00:18:52
    personally do not find them appealing
  • 00:18:54
    nothing about them really grabs me but I
  • 00:18:56
    do understand what Bungie is going for
  • 00:18:58
    here this is a transhumanist universe
  • 00:19:00
    where people have just given up on
  • 00:19:02
    humanity think Cyberpunk 2077 but
  • 00:19:04
    another 800 years later these people
  • 00:19:07
    have cycled through death and rebirth
  • 00:19:08
    until the point that they don't even
  • 00:19:10
    know who they are anymore these
  • 00:19:12
    characters aren't supposed to look human
  • 00:19:14
    masculine or feminine because
  • 00:19:16
    canotically they've lost touch with that
  • 00:19:18
    and this is the point that I think a lot
  • 00:19:19
    of people miss is that nuance is lost on
  • 00:19:21
    a skeptical audience they are not going
  • 00:19:24
    to assume the best they're going to
  • 00:19:25
    assume the worst i've seen the
  • 00:19:27
    accusations the backlash about androgyny
  • 00:19:29
    the character designs the questions
  • 00:19:31
    about who's leading the project some of
  • 00:19:33
    it is ideological sure without a doubt
  • 00:19:35
    but all of it no i don't think it's all
  • 00:19:37
    about gender or identity i think it's
  • 00:19:39
    about trust players have been watching
  • 00:19:41
    and they've been seeing this song and
  • 00:19:42
    dance play out for years now we've
  • 00:19:44
    watched as countless studios have
  • 00:19:46
    injected gender ideology as a smokeokc
  • 00:19:48
    screen for weak design for shallow
  • 00:19:50
    writing players have been treated like
  • 00:19:52
    they're problems that need to be fixed
  • 00:19:53
    and educated and now they're just going
  • 00:19:55
    to assume the worst when you break your
  • 00:19:57
    bond with your community when you break
  • 00:19:59
    that trust that you had with them even
  • 00:20:01
    the thoughtful creative choices that you
  • 00:20:02
    make are going to get viewed through a
  • 00:20:04
    lens of suspicion that's the cost of
  • 00:20:06
    cashing in on your reputation that's the
  • 00:20:08
    cost of breaking your trust and Marathon
  • 00:20:10
    is about to show the entire industry
  • 00:20:11
    just how expensive that cost truly is i
  • 00:20:14
    want to illustrate this for you guys
  • 00:20:15
    because I want people to really
  • 00:20:16
    understand this if we change the context
  • 00:20:18
    of this conversation entirely we look at
  • 00:20:20
    a game like Elden Ring or any From
  • 00:20:21
    Software title really these games are
  • 00:20:23
    drenched in body horror divine
  • 00:20:25
    transformation and identity collapse
  • 00:20:27
    characters that are mutating into gods
  • 00:20:29
    into beasts into nothing at all in some
  • 00:20:31
    cases while there is clearly masculine
  • 00:20:34
    and feminine figures within their
  • 00:20:35
    narratives the overwhelming aesthetic in
  • 00:20:37
    these games is androgynous grotesque and
  • 00:20:39
    symbolic more than anything else even
  • 00:20:42
    their character creator uses body type A
  • 00:20:44
    and body type B rather than traditional
  • 00:20:46
    gendered language and yet no outrage no
  • 00:20:49
    mass backlash no claims of agenda or
  • 00:20:52
    people that are trying to dissect
  • 00:20:54
    screenshots frame by frame well I guess
  • 00:20:56
    in some cases with America but why is
  • 00:20:58
    this it's because the audience trusts
  • 00:21:00
    from software i genuinely feel like this
  • 00:21:03
    is what so many people in the industry
  • 00:21:05
    fail to understand the backlash rarely
  • 00:21:07
    starts from the content itself it almost
  • 00:21:09
    always starts from the studio behind it
  • 00:21:10
    when players feel respected and they
  • 00:21:12
    feel like they can trust the developers
  • 00:21:13
    intentions they're not going to be
  • 00:21:15
    looking for reasons to criticize they're
  • 00:21:17
    invested they want to believe they want
  • 00:21:19
    that game to succeed but when that
  • 00:21:21
    studio squanders that trust players will
  • 00:21:23
    scrutinize everything they will attack
  • 00:21:25
    everything because they are waiting to
  • 00:21:27
    get burned again i don't understand how
  • 00:21:30
    industry veterans and writers are
  • 00:21:32
    missing out on such an obvious shift in
  • 00:21:34
    priorities from some of the most
  • 00:21:35
    successful studios in this industry look
  • 00:21:37
    at the studios that are out there that
  • 00:21:39
    are earning goodwill right now larry
  • 00:21:41
    Studios dropped one of the best RPGs
  • 00:21:42
    that we've seen in years in Balders's
  • 00:21:44
    Gate 3 they sold it at a fair price they
  • 00:21:46
    packed it full of content no
  • 00:21:47
    microtransactions no season passes no
  • 00:21:50
    DLC even when fans were begging for more
  • 00:21:53
    content what did Larry do they added it
  • 00:21:55
    for free they refused to monetize their
  • 00:21:57
    player trust from software right now
  • 00:22:00
    they're making Elden Ring Night Rey
  • 00:22:02
    multiplayer focused game no cash shop no
  • 00:22:05
    battle passes or microtransactions hello
  • 00:22:08
    Games has spent years now making No
  • 00:22:11
    Man's Sky adding more and more content
  • 00:22:13
    to it even when players are begging to
  • 00:22:15
    give them money they are dropping
  • 00:22:17
    massive updates for free transforming it
  • 00:22:19
    into something that players actually
  • 00:22:21
    love the result trust loyalty excitement
  • 00:22:24
    these studios when they go to announce
  • 00:22:25
    their next project these players aren't
  • 00:22:27
    going to question it they're not going
  • 00:22:28
    to brace themselves for disappointment
  • 00:22:31
    they are ready to believe they want to
  • 00:22:33
    believe it's going to be great that's
  • 00:22:35
    the difference these developers
  • 00:22:36
    understand that their audience isn't
  • 00:22:38
    something to be manipulated it's
  • 00:22:39
    something to be earned now this may come
  • 00:22:41
    as a surprise to you guys but a lot of
  • 00:22:43
    people from the industry watch these
  • 00:22:44
    videos i get a lot of feedback from
  • 00:22:46
    developers hell I just recently talked
  • 00:22:47
    to a CEO you guys are going to be
  • 00:22:49
    hearing more on that later this week but
  • 00:22:51
    if you work for Bungie and you found
  • 00:22:53
    this video for whatever reason know that
  • 00:22:55
    this isn't out of bad faith or anything
  • 00:22:57
    like that this is just genuine criticism
  • 00:22:59
    and I'm being realistic about the
  • 00:23:00
    position that you guys are in and you
  • 00:23:02
    have to do something about that i don't
  • 00:23:04
    know how you're going to the clock is
  • 00:23:06
    ticking the game releases in September
  • 00:23:07
    and you have to somehow undo what's been
  • 00:23:10
    done you have to somehow regain player
  • 00:23:12
    trust for a new game and I just
  • 00:23:14
    personally don't think that's going to
  • 00:23:15
    happen not with what these players not
  • 00:23:17
    with what Destiny players have been
  • 00:23:19
    subjected to over the years bungie in my
  • 00:23:22
    eyes is the ultimate betrayal for gamers
  • 00:23:24
    we're talking about a company that has
  • 00:23:27
    always been on the cutting edge of game
  • 00:23:28
    design some of the best shooters that
  • 00:23:30
    are out there some of the best memories
  • 00:23:31
    that they've created for players
  • 00:23:33
    worldwide yet at the exact same time
  • 00:23:36
    they are the least ethical studio in my
  • 00:23:38
    eyes in the entire industry and it's not
  • 00:23:41
    even close i've never seen players
  • 00:23:43
    treated the way that Destiny players
  • 00:23:45
    have been treated i'm one of them i'm
  • 00:23:48
    never going to forgive you for taking
  • 00:23:50
    away content that I paid for without
  • 00:23:55
    asking and you know I realize that the
  • 00:23:59
    people to blame aren't necessarily the
  • 00:24:01
    folks that are sitting at the desk that
  • 00:24:02
    are working on these games i guarantee
  • 00:24:04
    there are some hardworking people that
  • 00:24:05
    are working on Marathon right now and to
  • 00:24:07
    be honest with you they don't they don't
  • 00:24:09
    deserve what's coming their way you know
  • 00:24:12
    who does the guy that's been spending
  • 00:24:14
    money like crazy the one that has $2
  • 00:24:16
    million worth of uh classic cars in his
  • 00:24:20
    garage and also on top of that the
  • 00:24:22
    company that spent $3 billion on that
  • 00:24:25
    company they're the problem in this
  • 00:24:27
    situation they're the ones that need to
  • 00:24:28
    figure something out i'm going to tell
  • 00:24:30
    it to you guys straight i don't think
  • 00:24:32
    that Marathon is going to flop the same
  • 00:24:34
    way that Concord did i think that
  • 00:24:36
    there's enough brand recognition enough
  • 00:24:38
    power that it's way more distinct it
  • 00:24:40
    looks cooler in general i think people
  • 00:24:42
    will give it a shot some people will
  • 00:24:44
    give it a shot but ultimately looking at
  • 00:24:47
    the kind of money that they need to make
  • 00:24:48
    keep in mind Destiny 2 is not making the
  • 00:24:50
    money that Sony needs Bungie to be
  • 00:24:53
    making they thought Destiny 2 was going
  • 00:24:55
    to make more money than it did and it's
  • 00:24:56
    just consistently lost players almost
  • 00:24:58
    year after year after year and if this
  • 00:25:01
    game comes out and does not meet the
  • 00:25:04
    expectations of
  • 00:25:05
    Sony it's going to suffer the same fate
  • 00:25:07
    as Concord they're going to look at the
  • 00:25:10
    studio they're going to think about you
  • 00:25:11
    know hey what's the cheapest way that we
  • 00:25:14
    can continue to run Destiny 2 and make
  • 00:25:16
    it profitable and then just gut the rest
  • 00:25:18
    of the studio use it as a support or
  • 00:25:21
    whatever it might be or probably just
  • 00:25:22
    lay off everybody to be honest with you
  • 00:25:24
    that's just been the trend that this
  • 00:25:25
    industry has been going in lately but
  • 00:25:28
    that's what I foresee i just don't see
  • 00:25:31
    it making the money that this company's
  • 00:25:32
    probably expecting this game to make
  • 00:25:34
    unless they have a bunch of other
  • 00:25:35
    projects they plan on doing but I don't
  • 00:25:37
    think that's the case who knows maybe
  • 00:25:39
    I'll be proven wrong maybe they make
  • 00:25:42
    some big changes maybe there's some
  • 00:25:44
    finishing touches they add before the
  • 00:25:45
    game maybe they delay it for a little
  • 00:25:47
    bit and they give it a little bit of
  • 00:25:48
    extra love that makes it a little bit
  • 00:25:50
    more interesting for players they I
  • 00:25:52
    don't know maybe there is a incredibly
  • 00:25:55
    broad audience that's out there that is
  • 00:25:56
    looking for a streamlined extraction
  • 00:25:58
    shooter experience and this game is
  • 00:26:01
    going to fit right into it and it's just
  • 00:26:02
    going to blow up personally that sounds
  • 00:26:05
    like a bit of a fantasy to me but I
  • 00:26:07
    guess we'll see i've been proven wrong
  • 00:26:09
    in the past i'm not going to pretend
  • 00:26:11
    like I'm infallible not by any means but
  • 00:26:14
    yeah I hope the game is good i don't
  • 00:26:18
    really necessarily want to see it fail
  • 00:26:19
    because it does have a lot of things
  • 00:26:21
    that interest me and if it's fun and
  • 00:26:23
    it's interesting then I'm going to enjoy
  • 00:26:24
    the game that's basically how I've felt
  • 00:26:27
    with most of these games that come out
  • 00:26:28
    i'm never going to necessarily pray for
  • 00:26:30
    a game to fail companies to fail that's
  • 00:26:32
    a completely different story but games
  • 00:26:34
    themselves not necessarily cuz you know
  • 00:26:36
    I like having good games to play but
  • 00:26:39
    hope you guys enjoyed the video if you
  • 00:26:40
    guys did enjoy the video make sure you
  • 00:26:42
    guys subscribe to the channel like the
  • 00:26:43
    video drop a comment down below come
  • 00:26:45
    follow me on Twitch hang out i keep
  • 00:26:47
    pointing here like I put the sign i
  • 00:26:49
    always forget it you can just check the
  • 00:26:50
    description or the pin comment or
  • 00:26:52
    something like that uh yeah that's it
  • 00:26:54
    stay cool stay righteous stay safe catch
  • 00:26:56
    you guys in the next one
  • 00:26:59
    family
  • 00:27:00
    family
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