00:00:05
how large is
00:00:06
the environmental impact that can result from
00:00:08
energy usage in Data Centers?
00:00:10
Maybe you can give an overview?
00:00:13
and what kind of effort do we need to
00:00:16
research and develop again in the future?
00:00:19
in actuality
00:00:21
the Data Center grows with
00:00:24
energy consumption
00:00:27
Indeed
00:00:30
our world is very closely interlinked to energy consumption
00:00:33
and we should
00:00:35
keep pace with its efficiency
00:00:39
So we talked a lot about chiller systems
00:00:44
Computer Room Air Conditioner (CRAC)
00:00:46
which is similar to direct expansion
00:00:48
We can also use other systems such as
00:00:50
fanwall units
00:00:52
It looks like technology will change in the future
00:00:58
with the introduction of A.I
00:01:53
Hello everyone
00:01:54
Welcome to Podcast Nusantara by Nusantara Academy
00:01:57
Episode 6 of Season 2
00:02:00
with me
00:02:00
Prisca Winata as the host
00:02:02
of this episode
00:02:04
as a disclaimer
00:02:05
Podcast Nusantara is presented to provide education
00:02:09
this is a sharing of insights from industry experts
00:02:13
and should not be used as a reference
00:02:15
in the professional realm
00:02:18
Today
00:02:19
we will be discussing about a very
00:02:20
interesting theme regarding overcoming challenges in
00:02:22
creating sustainable Data Centers in Indonesia
00:02:26
As with the rapid
00:02:28
growth of the digital economy in our country
00:02:30
Data Centers play
00:02:31
a very important role
00:02:32
as the cornerstone of digital transformation
00:02:35
that occur across various sectors in Indonesia
00:02:37
But
00:02:38
to this day
00:02:39
there are still some challenges that
00:02:40
needs to be overcome
00:02:41
to ensure sustainability in Indonesia
00:02:43
The first challenge is
00:02:44
with many digital uses and demand for Data Centers
00:02:47
there will be an
00:02:48
increase in energy consumption and building cooling needs
00:02:52
The second one relates to its impact on the environment
00:02:55
and how is our readiness
00:02:56
(Indonesia) in preparing renewable energy
00:02:59
and National Energy Planning Strategy
00:03:02
What are the challenges
00:03:03
that might come from the workforce
00:03:05
that is still lacking in the field of
00:03:06
Data Center energy management
00:03:08
and finally
00:03:09
issues related to carbon reduction goals of Indonesia
00:03:12
Okay
00:03:13
Currently
00:03:14
in our studio
00:03:15
I am accompanied by extraordinary interviewees
00:03:18
The first interviewee is Chandra Irawan
00:03:20
acting as Country Manager of Indonesia Pure Data Centres Group
00:03:24
and Head of Energy at IDPRO
00:03:26
Good afternoon Chandra
00:03:27
Welcome to Podcast Nusantara
00:03:29
Good afternoon Prisca
00:03:30
and Mario
00:03:31
we also have Mario Leonardo Tjandra
00:03:35
Sales Director at PT Vertiv Technology Indonesia
00:03:37
Welcome
00:03:38
Good afternoon
00:03:39
Prisca and Chandra
00:03:42
Thank you
00:03:43
It is an honor for us
00:03:44
to be invited into this podcast
00:03:46
Yes
00:03:49
As we are about to start our discusssion today
00:03:52
please allow me to read out
00:03:53
a brief history of our two outstanding speakers
00:03:57
First
00:03:58
Chandra Irawan
00:03:59
a c-level executive who has extensive experience
00:04:03
in leading a company
00:04:04
and mission critical facilities technical operations
00:04:07
such as Data Centers
00:04:08
power plants and
00:04:09
oil and gas
00:04:10
He is the current Country Manager at Pure Data Centres Indonesia
00:04:14
who is responsible for leading
00:04:15
and driving Pure Data Centres operations
00:04:17
in Indonesia
00:04:19
He previously worked as the head of the Data Center
00:04:22
engineering operation for Amazon Web Services
00:04:25
or AWS in Indonesia
00:04:27
He also has experience as the Head of Operation
00:04:30
for Berkeley Energy Indonesia
00:04:33
He has 12 years of experience at Total Energies
00:04:36
with his last role as Maintenance Supervisor
00:04:39
and Offshore Installation Manager
00:04:42
Chandra
00:04:43
also have a Data Center Operations Manager certification
00:04:46
and the Chief Governance Officer certification
00:04:51
He is currently active in IDPRO (Indonesian Data Center Provider)
00:04:53
Indonesian Data Center Provider Association
00:04:55
as the Head of the Energy field
00:04:59
Our second guest
00:05:00
Mario Leonardo Tjandra
00:05:02
Sales Director of
00:05:04
PT Vertif Technology Indonesia
00:05:06
Mario is in charge of overseeing the entire business operations
00:05:09
of Vertif in the Indonesian market
00:05:12
leading the sales
00:05:13
and marketing effort to ensure the growth strategy
00:05:15
of the company is executed
00:05:18
Mario works with customers
00:05:20
and partners to put forward Vertif solutions
00:05:22
and meet infrastructure needs
00:05:25
as an experienced sales leader
00:05:27
Mario came to Vertif with over 20 years of
00:05:30
experience in "Pusat Data" or Data Centers
00:05:33
and in critical infrastructure areas
00:05:36
Mario has an in-depth understanding
00:05:38
about the business environment in Indonesia
00:05:41
earned while he
00:05:42
served in various organizations
00:05:44
including Emerson Network Power
00:05:46
Fluke Asia
00:05:47
Cyberpower System Inc.
00:05:49
and most recently in PT Huawei Technology Investment
00:05:53
In addition
00:05:54
Mario has a bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering
00:05:57
from Atmajaya Catholic University
00:06:01
In accordance with our theme
00:06:03
which is overcoming challenges
00:06:04
in creating sustainable Data Centers in Indonesia
00:06:07
we can start with
00:06:11
the first challenge
00:06:12
In today's discussion
00:06:14
We will talk about challenges
00:06:15
that exist in Indonesia
00:06:17
The first
00:06:18
is related to energy consumption and cooling system of a building
00:06:21
we know that
00:06:23
the current Data Centers
00:06:24
according to references
00:06:26
consumes more than 3% of the world's total electricity
00:06:30
that electricity usage
00:06:32
comes mostly from the cooling system
00:06:36
Especially
00:06:37
because of the increasing number of applications
00:06:39
and users of digital technology in Indonesia is also increasing
00:06:44
this makes
00:06:45
achieving an efficient Data Center
00:06:47
harder
00:06:49
Maybe the first question
00:06:51
as we start our discussion
00:06:53
according to the perspective of Chandra and Mario
00:06:56
the current Data Center development in Indonesia
00:06:59
What does
00:07:01
the development look like?
00:07:01
Is it
00:07:03
increasing rapidly?
00:07:05
How does it compare to five years ago?
00:07:09
Please
00:07:10
perhaps from Chandra?
00:07:12
Thank you Prisca
00:07:15
We can look at
00:07:17
The Data Center Development at
00:07:19
the global level first
00:07:20
Focusing on the current developments
00:07:22
in Asia Pacific
00:07:24
In Japan alone
00:07:25
there are about 800 megawatt capacity
00:07:28
in
00:07:30
Singapore itself
00:07:31
there are about 400 megawatt capacity
00:07:34
and in comparison
00:07:36
Indonesia currently have around 120 megawatt Data Center Capacity
00:07:43
So we are quite
00:07:46
falling behind in terms of
00:07:48
Data Center Development compared to the rest of the world
00:07:50
particularly
00:07:51
in the Asia Pacific area
00:07:52
Even though
00:07:53
we see a great potential
00:07:57
as a country with 270 million population
00:08:03
and the users of
00:08:05
mobile phone
00:08:06
has reached 350 million user
00:08:08
The number of mobile phones users
00:08:11
exceed the population
00:08:13
that means
00:08:15
one person may have two mobile phones
00:08:17
We have a penetration of 70%
00:08:21
in terms of the internet for our citizen
00:08:23
and we are also
00:08:27
a host for certain Unicorn companies
00:08:31
GOTO for example
00:08:33
Halodoc and so on
00:08:35
Our own potential
00:08:37
is actually huge
00:08:39
Indonesia can grow
00:08:41
and become one of the
00:08:43
hub of digital infrastructure in Asia
00:08:48
What we need to look at
00:08:51
is that development
00:08:53
in the past three years
00:08:54
as you mentioned before
00:08:56
is very rapid
00:09:01
because the previous situation play a part in its growth
00:09:04
the pandemic
00:09:05
Thus
00:09:08
all organization
00:09:09
inevitably have to transition into digital
00:09:13
technologies
00:09:14
So our meetings transform into
00:09:17
video conferences
00:09:20
Transactions
00:09:21
and signatures
00:09:21
are also being done digitally
00:09:24
So we can say that
00:09:28
this is a
00:09:30
blessing in disguise
00:09:31
we do not want another pandemic to happen
00:09:33
but the previous pandemic
00:09:35
become one of the
00:09:37
turning points
00:09:37
where
00:09:39
Indonesia
00:09:42
drastically changed
00:09:44
where we can say that
00:09:48
the needs of the next five years
00:09:50
have been put into
00:09:51
2022 and 2023
00:09:54
excuse me
00:09:54
2021 and 2022
00:09:56
we have started recovering from the pandemic in 2023
00:10:00
So
00:10:03
it is good to maintain
00:10:05
this momentum for digital transformation
00:10:08
where
00:10:09
we
00:10:11
will make sure
00:10:13
Indonesia uses
00:10:16
this opportunity to continue the trend
00:10:19
of this
00:10:21
digitization
00:10:22
across all aspects
00:10:23
that we can see
00:10:27
The digital realm
00:10:28
firstly
00:10:29
is more reliable
00:10:30
secondly
00:10:31
is more accountable
00:10:33
and thirdly
00:10:34
its expandability is better
00:10:36
and faster
00:10:37
that is the cloud standard
00:10:39
This is what
00:10:41
we are promoting to
00:10:44
Indonesian organizations
00:10:45
Indonesian citizens
00:10:46
and the government for us to build
00:10:51
the digital infrastructure together in Indonesia
00:10:53
Working with stakeholders
00:10:54
from technology providers and also
00:10:58
investors and
00:10:59
financial institutions
00:11:02
thank you Chandra
00:11:03
is there any addition from Mario?
00:11:06
to add a few additional points
00:11:08
It is correct that
00:11:10
the Data Center industry growth in Indonesia
00:11:14
is extraordinary
00:11:16
very significant
00:11:20
Institution research
00:11:23
and construction research
00:11:24
illustrates that Indonesia in the next five years
00:11:26
is doubling in growth
00:11:28
for that to happen
00:11:29
there will be
00:11:31
challenges in terms of energy
00:11:34
because
00:11:36
in actuality
00:11:39
The Data Center grows with
00:11:41
energy consumption
00:11:45
Indeed
00:11:47
our world is very closely interlinked to energy consumption
00:11:51
and we should
00:11:53
keep pace with its efficiency
00:11:58
Thus
00:11:58
as vendors
00:12:01
we are always trying to develop our technology
00:12:06
to aim for less
00:12:09
consumption
00:12:12
or using the energy that we have
00:12:14
in a more efficient way
00:12:17
so we are trying
00:12:18
to move towards better efficiency
00:12:23
Thank you
00:12:25
So
00:12:26
Data Center is growing rapidly
00:12:29
especially in Mario's point of view
00:12:31
it will double in another five years
00:12:34
This will have a huge impact
00:12:36
towards the environment
00:12:38
and with the development of cloud computing
00:12:40
Artificial Intelligence (AI)
00:12:41
those factors will
00:12:42
increase Data Center consumption
00:12:46
According to McKinsey & Company
00:12:48
cooling needs contribute approximately around 40%
00:12:52
of Data Center energy consumption
00:12:53
This is not just Data Centers
00:12:55
in buildings
00:12:56
cooling systems are also among the highest energy consumers
00:12:59
According to the Mario's and Chandra's perspective
00:13:02
how to balance
00:13:04
between our cooling needs
00:13:06
that will increase later on
00:13:08
with
00:13:09
the efficiency of energy consumption
00:13:12
Please
00:13:15
in terms of cooling systems
00:13:17
they are indeed
00:13:21
among the highest energy consumers
00:13:23
in a Data Center
00:13:26
especially
00:13:27
in Indonesia
00:13:28
because we are in a
00:13:31
tropical climate
00:13:34
where the average temperature
00:13:36
every year reaches above 30 degrees centigrade
00:13:40
This presents its own challenge
00:13:43
in which Data Centers
00:13:45
need to condition their rooms
00:13:48
so that the temperature is always maintained
00:13:52
around the average temperature
00:13:54
which is usually around
00:13:56
18 - 27 degrees
00:13:57
then for
00:13:59
humidity around
00:14:01
50 - 80 %
00:14:05
We need the equipment
00:14:08
so that we can maintain the condition
00:14:11
of the air inside
00:14:13
the data hall
00:14:15
in which we provide services
00:14:16
to our customer
00:14:19
How do we maintain the condition
00:14:22
so that our air cooling system
00:14:24
can work efficiently?
00:14:28
We need air cooling
00:14:29
we need equipment but
00:14:31
how to make sure that
00:14:33
the energy that we use
00:14:34
are actually used to cool the air
00:14:36
and not become waste
00:14:38
actually cool down the server that is in
00:14:41
our data hall
00:14:42
There are some approaches that we can take
00:14:45
this is pretty standard in
00:14:47
the Data Center business
00:14:48
Firstly
00:14:49
the design
00:14:50
of the building itself
00:14:52
we will instruct so that
00:14:55
the shape
00:14:56
direction
00:14:59
orientation of the building
00:15:03
and the layout of the building reduces
00:15:08
the losses where
00:15:11
the cooling is wasted in vain
00:15:13
Secondly
00:15:14
for certain sides of the rooms
00:15:17
specifically the data hall
00:15:20
they usually conduct
00:15:23
a simulation
00:15:25
CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics)
00:15:28
where we can simulate
00:15:31
air flow from the cooling system to
00:15:35
what we usually call
00:15:40
rows
00:15:42
the rows
00:15:43
of the servers
00:15:45
so that its flow is
00:15:47
smooth
00:15:49
from the direction of the cooler to the row
00:15:52
into the server and will eventually
00:15:54
be returned
00:15:56
usually to the top
00:15:57
and will be circulated into
00:16:00
a fanwall unit for example
00:16:02
This also plays an important role
00:16:06
so that the cooling will be efficient
00:16:07
Make sure they do not forget
00:16:10
the server layout position
00:16:12
This is also very critical because
00:16:15
in a data hall
00:16:18
servers enter in turns
00:16:20
This means that we have to maintain
00:16:25
efficient cooling
00:16:27
This is where we usually
00:16:29
fill it on one side first
00:16:31
so the cooling will be focused on there for example
00:16:33
and lastly
00:16:34
we usually
00:16:37
implement a strategy
00:16:38
called low load strategy
00:16:39
where
00:16:42
if a customer is still
00:16:44
using their data hall gradually
00:16:49
there are steps given
00:16:50
where we do not need to use 100% cooling for example
00:16:54
because they have not used 100%
00:16:57
of their IT load or server load
00:16:59
so that we can maintain
00:17:03
effectiveness
00:17:04
In Data Centers
00:17:05
we call it
00:17:06
PUE (Power Usage Effectiveness)
00:17:10
In which the lower our PUE becomes
00:17:13
the better
00:17:16
Standard of PUE
00:17:19
in Asia Pacific is about 1.67
00:17:22
in the northern hemisphere is usually lower
00:17:26
around 1.3 or 1.4
00:17:26
because of sub-tropical temperatures
00:17:31
There are some steps we can take
00:17:35
to become more effective at using
00:17:39
power in our cooling system
00:17:42
so we maximized
00:17:45
the result of our energy
00:17:47
apart from
00:17:49
our own equipment
00:17:50
The equipment certainly has
00:17:52
their own efficiency
00:17:53
depending on maybe
00:17:54
the design
00:17:56
the brand
00:17:58
and also the technology
00:18:01
such as a classic fanwall unit
00:18:03
or is it liquid cooling
00:18:06
and so on
00:18:07
but perhaps
00:18:07
Mario can add to that part
00:18:10
Chandra had said a lot about
00:18:12
the passive design side of the building itself
00:18:15
the design of the building must also be optimal from the beginning
00:18:17
so that we reduce heat gain
00:18:19
from the facade
00:18:21
From the active design side
00:18:22
Are there certain technology being used?
00:18:26
okay
00:18:27
This is interesting
00:18:28
So
00:18:31
The efficiency of cooling starts from the design
00:18:35
the Data Center design itself
00:18:37
as explained by Chandra
00:18:40
starting from
00:18:41
positions and so on
00:18:44
after that
00:18:44
as soon as we get into the data hall itself
00:18:48
This is the scope of work for
00:18:50
equipment vendors
00:18:52
So
00:18:54
usually
00:18:55
when we are working with
00:18:57
people who are Data Center owners
00:18:58
we will discuss
00:18:59
How big is it?
00:19:03
What the load is like?
00:19:04
Where can we give suggestion to create partitions?
00:19:07
After that
00:19:08
we will get into the unit selection
00:19:11
Let's say we want to select units that help us
00:19:13
achieve a PUE of a certain level
00:19:17
After we calculate
00:19:17
we have a certain level of wattage
00:19:21
with this certain level
00:19:22
we will then split the wattage
00:19:23
we narrow down the units that can accommodate to
00:19:28
what was said previously
00:19:32
low load strategy
00:19:33
so maybe we will divide
00:19:36
with the design team and also
00:19:39
the Data Center owners
00:19:42
we divide it into
00:19:46
islands for example
00:19:48
or into data halls
00:19:50
or for each row
00:19:52
How much can we contribute?
00:19:54
Later on
00:19:56
that is why we need
00:19:59
to consult
00:20:00
with those from the Data Center owners
00:20:03
because we
00:20:05
want to try to deliver
00:20:07
the best solution
00:20:08
according to the Data Center owner needs
00:20:12
What kind of cooler
00:20:14
is used in a Data Center system?
00:20:29
Do you prefer the chiller system or others?
00:20:33
It is varied
00:20:34
It depends on the strategy of the owner
00:20:38
there might be
00:20:40
those that want the Data Center size to not be big
00:20:44
they might want to gradually
00:20:47
build the Data Center
00:20:48
There is a model
00:20:50
called direct expansion (DX)
00:20:52
we even have
00:20:55
coolers installed on each row
00:20:58
Once there is a cooler in each row
00:21:01
there will be more advanced technology in the future
00:21:03
in which these
00:21:05
cooler machines
00:21:07
or the supply refrigeration
00:21:09
or the cooler supply
00:21:11
can be run using a chiller
00:21:14
or can be run using the
00:21:19
the direct expansion method
00:21:21
with
00:21:22
one indoor unit and one outdoor unit
00:21:26
or we carry that cooling capacity through a fluid
00:21:30
or liquid
00:21:31
into the Data Center
00:21:33
All that depends on the
00:21:36
result of the discussion between
00:21:39
the users
00:21:42
with their consultant
00:21:43
They usually have consultants too
00:21:46
So usually they have consultants
00:21:49
M&E (Monitoring and Evaluation) consultants
00:21:51
will show that
00:21:53
this technology
00:21:55
produce much better results
00:21:58
it stuck to its original deployment plan
00:22:03
This is interesting
00:22:04
I think we can divide it into
00:22:07
conventional technology
00:22:09
with now that has come
00:22:14
right in front of us
00:22:15
liquid cooling
00:22:16
So we talked a lot about chiller systems
00:22:21
computer room and air condition rack
00:22:23
which is similar to direct expansion
00:22:25
We can also use other systems such as
00:22:28
fanwall units
00:22:29
it looks like technology will change in the future
00:22:35
with the introduction of A.I
00:22:40
in the Data Center
00:22:42
Where we
00:22:44
learn that A.I racks are
00:22:47
power hungry
00:22:47
If our standard is the cloud
00:22:51
each server is using probably around two to ten KW (kilowatt)
00:22:55
while the A.I
00:22:57
server
00:22:59
it can get to
00:23:01
40 KW (kilowatts) or more
00:23:02
and I also just learned that
00:23:05
there is a transition
00:23:07
between 20 and 40 kilowatts
00:23:09
where they
00:23:10
intersect
00:23:11
and can start using liquid cooling
00:23:15
So
00:23:18
in our place
00:23:19
we are
00:23:20
doing RND (Research and Development)
00:23:23
with the leading A.I chip manufacturer
00:23:26
In which they are consulting
00:23:29
because
00:23:30
by the time they produced a chip
00:23:32
although very powerful
00:23:34
they can not
00:23:35
provide sufficient cooling capacity
00:23:40
they can not use it anyway
00:23:42
so usually they talk to
00:23:45
our RnD team
00:23:47
As you have said
00:23:50
reaching up to 50 kilowatts for every rack
00:23:53
we can still manage with
00:23:57
just purely air
00:23:59
or air cooling
00:24:01
but if it is more than 50 kilowatt
00:24:04
we must start to think about
00:24:08
how to remove the heat that is
00:24:11
being generated inside the processor?
00:24:13
we take it out immediately
00:24:15
so that the processor still works
00:24:19
in optimum temperature
00:24:21
just like that
00:24:26
We are one of the leading
00:24:27
companies for liquid cooling
00:24:29
When we designed Data Centers
00:24:33
once it is already above 50 (kilowatt)
00:24:37
we start using combinations
00:24:38
because the majority of
00:24:43
IT equipment inside
00:24:44
a Data Center still needs
00:24:48
"Pendingin udara" or air cooling
00:24:50
we usually combine
00:24:52
for example
00:24:53
if the load is 50
00:24:55
60, 70 kilowatts for every rack
00:24:57
we will use air cooling for 30% of it
00:25:00
we use liquid cooling for the the remaining parts
00:25:03
and the liquid cooling will be direct-to-chip
00:25:06
so in the A.I chip
00:25:08
there will be heat absorbtion and transfer
00:25:13
out of the system
00:25:14
using the direct liquid cooling method
00:25:19
and the efficiency will be much higher
00:25:22
have you calculated
00:25:23
how much efficiency can be achieved?
00:25:26
in terms of heat removal
00:25:27
when using the direct liquid cooling
00:25:30
we can achieve
00:25:32
500 times
00:25:35
more efficient
00:25:37
but we cannot use liquid cooling
00:25:39
to all
00:25:41
the components that are inside there
00:25:43
So we still have to mix?
00:25:45
Yes
00:25:48
Hopefully in the future we can
00:25:51
have projects that actually use 100% liquid cooling
00:25:54
so we can know the significant difference
00:25:58
That actually exist
00:25:59
it is called immersion cooling
00:26:02
Immersion cooling is when the whole
00:26:05
IT equipment is put in
00:26:11
a fluid
00:26:13
or cooling fluid
00:26:15
There are real applications of this
00:26:16
and it is also one of the technology
00:26:18
that we are developing
00:26:20
but we can not rush it
00:26:23
because it has long-term impacts
00:26:26
and also
00:26:26
we still do not know the environmental impact either
00:26:33
Talking about environmental impact
00:26:36
according to references from climatic
00:26:38
Global emissions from cloud computing have contributed around
00:26:41
2.5% to 3.7% of all greenhouse gas
00:26:46
emissions globally
00:26:47
According to this data
00:26:49
cloud computing's emissions exceeds
00:26:51
those of the commercial aviation industry
00:26:54
can we imagine that?
00:26:55
we know the emissions of the commercial flights are very high
00:26:57
but cloud computing causes
00:26:59
an even higher level of emission
00:27:01
From
00:27:03
the designs
00:27:04
of efficient Data Center
00:27:05
this has not been a top priority
00:27:08
for investors and developers
00:27:11
owners of Data Centers
00:27:13
how large is
00:27:14
the environmental impact that can result from
00:27:16
energy usage in Data Centers?
00:27:19
Maybe you can give an overview?
00:27:21
and what kind of effort do we need to
00:27:24
research and develop again in the future
00:27:26
for the environment?
00:27:29
We can put it this way
00:27:30
we previously mentioned sustainability
00:27:32
but we have not explained what sustainability is
00:27:36
We hear sustainable words very often
00:27:38
but maybe
00:27:40
its understanding is what we need to
00:27:43
inform at the beginning
00:27:45
If we look up sustainability
00:27:48
described in the Cambridge english dictionary
00:27:52
it is the ability to do
00:27:53
repetitive process without
00:27:58
harming
00:28:00
other things outside the process itself
00:28:01
in general
00:28:05
we can translate
00:28:06
sustainability in Indonesia
00:28:08
as a process
00:28:10
or ability
00:28:11
of human kind to meet their needs without harming
00:28:15
the next generation
00:28:17
and their needs
00:28:20
We are not jeopardizing our future generation
00:28:24
and their ability to feed themselves
00:28:25
That can be the definition
00:28:27
If we look at our own sustainability
00:28:29
they are supported by three pillars
00:28:32
economy, social, and environment
00:28:35
In economics
00:28:36
it is about how we fulfill their needs
00:28:39
by reducing waste or
00:28:44
unused things
00:28:46
so it will become more towards a circular economy
00:28:50
In the social aspect we are
00:28:51
doing a process where we
00:28:54
fight the poverty
00:28:57
and hunger or "kelaparan"
00:29:00
and lastly
00:29:01
this is what
00:29:02
will stick to
00:29:04
our discussion today
00:29:05
Sustainability
00:29:06
where we seek to reduce emissions
00:29:08
or waste that we produce from the process of
00:29:13
our work towards the environment
00:29:18
I think
00:29:19
our focus might be more towards carbon emissions
00:29:21
which is currently
00:29:23
trending around the world
00:29:27
we are trying to reduce carbon emissions
00:29:29
which we know creates
00:29:30
the greenhouse effect
00:29:32
causing the heat of the sun to
00:29:34
be trapped in the atmosphere and
00:29:37
gradually increase the average temperature
00:29:42
of the earth's surface
00:29:44
In this case
00:29:45
the sustainabilty goal of
00:29:49
UNFCCC (United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change)
00:29:51
is limiting the
00:29:54
rising temperature
00:29:56
globally
00:29:59
no more than 1.5 degrees
00:30:02
by the end of the century
00:30:04
which is 2100
00:30:05
because
00:30:09
the scientist who
00:30:10
have done the research
00:30:12
found that
00:30:14
if we do not restrict the
00:30:16
temperature increase to be less than 2 degrees
00:30:18
that is why the
00:30:19
UNFCCC are targeting not more than
00:30:20
1.5 degrees
00:30:21
so that there may be a buffer margin
00:30:23
then life
00:30:26
on earth will
00:30:28
be very disturbed
00:30:30
and unfortunately
00:30:31
those of us living in tropical climates
00:30:34
will be the first ones
00:30:35
affected by things such as
00:30:39
the rising sea level
00:30:41
The islands will begin to sink
00:30:43
drought will come
00:30:45
which will cause forest fires
00:30:46
and that will
00:30:48
unfortunately start from
00:30:50
our territory
00:30:51
which is the equator area
00:30:52
We briefly mentioned
00:30:54
about sustainability
00:30:56
so that we also understand what is
00:30:58
sustainability from the
00:31:03
general point of view
00:31:04
as well as the environment
00:31:08
Going back to the question
00:31:10
Are Data Centers generating emissions or
00:31:15
pollution to the environment?
00:31:19
Generally
00:31:22
to be honest
00:31:23
we do contribute
00:31:26
towards climate change
00:31:29
but we need to
00:31:32
realize that
00:31:35
the increasing emissions
00:31:37
has to be
00:31:44
dealt with responsibly
00:31:50
In the other countries
00:31:53
especially in Western countries
00:31:55
the Data Center industry is often protested against
00:32:00
because it is using
00:32:02
a huge amount of energy
00:32:03
causing emissions to the environment
00:32:05
so in some places it has been stopped
00:32:08
in Singapore for example
00:32:09
there was a moratorium in 2022
00:32:11
that they will not allow more Data Centers to be built
00:32:13
because they do not have sufficient power left
00:32:15
and have concerns with the emissions
00:32:17
this happens in some European countries as well
00:32:19
So there are those who
00:32:21
states that
00:32:23
The Data Center
00:32:25
is a necessary evil
00:32:26
but we
00:32:28
myself included
00:32:29
as a practitioner in the Data Center
00:32:33
think that is a wrong mindset
00:32:34
we need Data Centers
00:32:36
because without Data Centers
00:32:38
the digital infrastructure will shut down
00:32:41
the telephone will shut down
00:32:43
the internet will also be impacted
00:32:45
we will probably be in a condition that is
00:32:47
even worse than now
00:32:49
because
00:32:51
if we leave the house for example
00:32:53
without a cellphone
00:32:53
we will go back home to grab our phones
00:32:56
it is okay if we do not bring our wallets
00:32:57
as long as we bring our phones
00:32:59
we can pay digitally
00:33:01
So we
00:33:02
need to realize that digitalization has become
00:33:04
a primary need
00:33:05
almost a primary need
00:33:08
although clothing, food, and housing is definitely more important
00:33:09
but the digital realm also supports those three needs
00:33:12
So
00:33:15
we have to face the fact that the Data Center growth
00:33:18
is a necessary good
00:33:22
things that we need to
00:33:24
develop but in a responsible way
00:33:31
So reducing emissions
00:33:34
and increasing efficiency
00:33:37
will become the focus
00:33:41
for us as the
00:33:42
Data Center providers
00:33:44
it is also trending right now all over the world
00:33:47
including how
00:33:49
technology providers
00:33:50
can give their solutions to
00:33:54
energy efficient equipment and
00:33:58
low carbon content
00:34:01
There are embedded carbon from
00:34:03
each equipment that we receive
00:34:05
On our side
00:34:09
as a form of
00:34:11
responsibility
00:34:12
in the reduction of carbon emissions
00:34:16
we usually oversee the Data Centers
00:34:20
from its cradle to its grave
00:34:23
We do what is called a lifecycle analysis
00:34:26
We know
00:34:27
how much carbon emissions are contained in this project
00:34:30
from the moment we start
00:34:32
the initiation until decommissioning
00:34:35
We have to offset this
00:34:38
with the
00:34:40
carbon reduction progam
00:34:42
the term is quite well-known
00:34:45
scope one, scope two
00:34:46
and scope three
00:34:47
in which scope one is
00:34:49
indirect energy use from the outside
00:34:52
such as the electricity we use
00:34:54
some are using steam
00:34:56
or
00:34:58
other forms of energy
00:35:00
Scope two is where
00:35:03
the emissions that we produce
00:35:05
through the Data Center generator for example
00:35:10
In another industry
00:35:12
they are perhaps generating the
00:35:14
electricity using gas
00:35:16
it is popular among some Data Centers
00:35:19
to use gas for
00:35:22
generating their
00:35:23
own power
00:35:24
The last one is
00:35:26
anything else such as
00:35:28
the embedded carbon on supply chains and so on
00:35:31
we need to observe that too
00:35:32
There are milestones
00:35:37
there are certain stages where we
00:35:39
are targeting
00:35:40
which areas need to produce zero carbon?
00:35:42
and it is usually driven from
00:35:45
each respective countries
00:35:46
where do we operate or in which country is
00:35:49
the Data Center operating on?
00:35:51
the last one is probably
00:35:54
that these emissions reduction should not only come from Data Center providers
00:36:00
but also from the other stakeholders
00:36:03
who need to support each other
00:36:04
The customers for example
00:36:07
Do customers also have
00:36:11
the same drive or vision to
00:36:13
reduce the carbon (emission)?
00:36:14
because carbon reduction is not cheap
00:36:16
to be frank
00:36:17
it is not cheap
00:36:20
it will increase the cost of production
00:36:22
Are there people
00:36:24
who want to bear the burden together?
00:36:26
If handled by the Data Center providers on their own
00:36:28
it seems quite a heavy burden
00:36:30
because sometimes we lose the competition with
00:36:32
other providers
00:36:33
but if the customer says it is okay
00:36:34
and we consider it is
00:36:37
their goals too
00:36:38
it will certainly be for the better
00:36:41
because to me
00:36:42
technology is everywhere
00:36:43
everyone can build something
00:36:45
but the question is who are the ones willing to pay?
00:36:47
Maybe Mario has certain solutions?
00:36:48
What strategies can we use?
00:36:50
okay
00:36:52
from our side
00:36:53
as technology providers
00:36:56
we always do research on how we can
00:37:00
contribute to the sustainability effort
00:37:05
in the environment field
00:37:08
Starting from material selection
00:37:10
to the waste
00:37:13
management
00:37:15
but besides that
00:37:16
we also
00:37:17
with the team from the Data Center as well
00:37:19
often have
00:37:20
discussions
00:37:22
for example
00:37:26
starting from
00:37:28
providing suggestions
00:37:30
one of the things we suggested
00:37:31
is the gas turbine
00:37:33
maybe that also becomes a solution
00:37:35
instead of using
00:37:38
fossil fuel
00:37:40
That is also one of
00:37:41
our ways to reduce (emissions)
00:37:42
We also discuss about this
00:37:44
with our team
00:37:46
microgrids
00:37:50
instead of
00:37:53
using generator fuel
00:37:56
we can use the ESS (energy storage system)
00:38:00
There are many
00:38:03
solutions from technology that we can use
00:38:06
but it goes back to
00:38:08
how the cost is not cheap
00:38:11
The cost must be well distributed
00:38:15
the carbon credit must also be
00:38:17
calculated
00:38:19
Is that right?
00:38:20
So the company that
00:38:22
is willing to make an effort
00:38:26
should be appreciated
00:38:28
with extra incentives and so on
00:38:32
so the people in the Data Center
00:38:34
by the time they are asked by the
00:38:38
industry to
00:38:41
reduce
00:38:43
carbon emissions or do whatever you need to do
00:38:50
to be sustainable
00:38:53
all that must be supported
00:38:55
we as the vendors
00:38:57
can also become private vendors
00:38:58
by doing that
00:39:00
so we make one
00:39:02
ecosystem that supports each other
00:39:05
and we are very willing to support that initiative
00:39:10
I agree
00:39:11
the ecosystem is very important
00:39:13
so if we look at the Data Center (ecosystem)
00:39:16
its biggest environmental impact comes from its carbon emissions
00:39:20
because they are using energy at a really high rate
00:39:22
If we compare it to other environments
00:39:24
such as garbage or
00:39:25
water
00:39:26
it is not too significant
00:39:27
in terms of the energy (usage)
00:39:29
Maybe the solution that have
00:39:32
the most direct impact is renewable energy
00:39:34
The power source is what we need to
00:39:39
find alternatives for
00:39:41
perhaps by not using fossil fuels anymore
00:39:43
or is there another alternative?
00:39:44
maybe by mixing certain percentages of them?
00:39:47
in Indonesia
00:39:48
regarding renewable energy
00:39:51
we are still aware of the challenges
00:39:52
so the availability of
00:39:54
renewable energy in Indonesia
00:39:55
is limited
00:39:56
In terms of the composition
00:39:58
If we want to use sustainable energy
00:40:00
you have to exceed the
00:40:02
fossil fuel capacity
00:40:04
which we know still has a long life
00:40:07
There are also many concerns related to cost
00:40:11
investments
00:40:12
who wants to finance and so forth
00:40:14
because in one of the episodes of
00:40:16
Podcast Nusantara
00:40:18
if I am not mistaken
00:40:20
it was during the first season
00:40:22
there was
00:40:24
one speaker who states
00:40:26
that he is confident that all
00:40:28
the current Data Center players
00:40:30
were not originally Data Centers
00:40:32
including me
00:40:34
we are pushed to head towards
00:40:41
the net-zero carbon goal
00:40:44
We undertake many initiatives
00:40:46
Enjoyed this Podcast
00:40:48
you can listen anywhere
00:40:51
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00:40:52
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00:41:01
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