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John Mok hints at more changes coming
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for the Cardinals plus a reaction to
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Miles Michaels's recent struggles in
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2024 what's going on everyone welcome
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into this edition of bsha daily Brendan
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Schaefer coming at you on Monday evening
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September 9th 2024 over the weekend the
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Cardinals dropped two of three to the
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Mariners it's their first series loss in
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about 3 weeks but it's just something
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that at this point in the calendar we
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know the Cardinals can ill afford to
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have and Sunday's loss came as a pretty
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lopsided one with the Cardinals dropping
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it 10 to4 to the Mariners in a game
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started by miles michelas and it's just
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been a season for michas that Cardinal
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fans just did not want to see but I
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think a lot of folks were maybe a little
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fearful that this is the type of
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production the Cardinals might get from
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Michaelis this season after he regressed
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in 2023 and just didn't seem to be quite
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the same guy as he was in the All-Star
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2022 campaign uh made a ton of starts
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had the 200 Innings last year but erra
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balloon he led the league in hits and
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earn runs allowed uh just one of those
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seasons for Michaels that wasn't
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particularly strong and then you come
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back this season you're hoping to see
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maybe a more refreshed version of him in
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his age 35 campaign it's it's been even
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worse a 5.55 ER now is where michis is
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on the season and knowing that that
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contract runs through 2025 and you know
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that money is already on the books I
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guess it's a question of what the
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Cardinals are going to ultimately want
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to do with michelas in his contract in
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that rotation spot because it's one that
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you kind of have filed away and written
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in pencil is well miles Michaels is
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going to be in there because they're
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paying him to be and with all the
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discussion about the payroll
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circumstances for the Cardinals for 2025
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and the notion that maybe they're not
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going to want to expand the payroll
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Beyond uh certainly what it was this
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year and may even take away a little bit
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compared to the money that was spent in
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2024 uh it would stand a reason that
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michaelis's spot could be accounted for
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regardless almost of the performance but
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I think it's kind of getting to a point
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where look even if you're going to do it
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under a lesser payroll next year if
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you're the Cardinals you look at that
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Michael's spot and say are the Cardinals
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just kind of punting on a rotation spot
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if they put Michaels back in there
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looking the way that he's looking right
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now a 5.55 ER I mean that's just not
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competitive and even if you're a team
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that does have to kind of trim the
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payroll a little bit and maybe go in a
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direction of of leaning on internal
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options that spot I I just think if you
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had a camp competition and said look guy
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with a 5 and A2 Ur goes up against some
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of these minor Leaguers if contract were
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not the uh determining factor of that
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such competition how would it play out
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like I I just don't know if the
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Cardinals are in a spot where they're
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going to be considerate of hey you know
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the money is the money and we're paying
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it either way let's go ahead and put the
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best product on the field and go into a
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spring where Miles Michael is sort of
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has to almost earn his spot or if it
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even gets that far along if the
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Cardinals would look to trade him and
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eat money to move the contract if he's
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been one of the least effective starters
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in baseball of the full-time starters
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across the League this year so uh look
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this is not what anybody wanted to see
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for him in this season but it's where he
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is at this point and uh after the game
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on Sunday OE marmal obviously had to
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answer questions about the performance
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by michelas and we heard and I'll I'll
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play the audio for you courtesy of Bley
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Sports Midwest but we kind of heard
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similar story to what we have heard oie
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marmal say in the past when it comes to
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Miles michelas and the notion of look
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he's a pitch to contact guy and in a
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situation where the the contact is hard
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contact and it finds a hole and another
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and another then you know these are
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going to be the types of days that he
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has but it's now kind of gone from day
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to day and and you have a couple of
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outings like this throughout a year or
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two well Michaels is getting hit hard
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more often than not and that has turned
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into an RA of five and a half following
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a season where he was close to five with
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last year's erra so it's sort of been
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trending in the wrong direction for
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miles michelas and I know a lot of
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Cardinal fans are dis pointed in the
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outcomes and the production that the
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Cardinals have gotten from him but as
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yeah as we think toward next season be
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very interested to see how the Cardinals
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might end up viewing this situation
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let's hear from Alie marmal again this
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is courtesy of B Sports Midwest after a
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tough outing in which Michaels didn't
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get through three Innings and gave up
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well quite a few runs yeah we talked
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about that quite a bit he's a strike
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thrower there's days he's going to get
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hit and there's days those uh are going
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to be at people um just didn't have the
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ability to execute and get some of his
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pitch his glove side the way he wanted
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to and they ran back over the plate and
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they hit it hard um they didn't miss a
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whole lot they took some big swings and
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connected on quite a bit of them so end
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of the day I mean they just they beat
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him and there is not much else to say
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about the miles Michel outing from
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Sunday and really that's been the story
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of his season and look I mean you might
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I I saw some commentary in look I think
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the the Discerning and the the
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comprehension sometimes from folks on
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social media is pretty poor when you
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look at the comments below the video
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there that I played the audio courtesy
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of Valley Sports Midwest and people are
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saying oh my gosh Olie you know all I
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can't believe he said this and and how
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does Olie think that this was like if
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you listened to what he said there
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you're not really going to hear a
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manager be more critical than that of a
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player that's on his team like at the
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end of the day they beat him they hit
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the ball really hard against him and
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they beat him we've talked about this
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he's a strike thrower and sometimes
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those strikes are going to get hit hard
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and if it's not at people they're going
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to score a lot of runs like he basically
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is saying like the guy was not you know
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he didn't have the stuff to be able to
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compete to be able to to win and um
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that's about as blunt as it's going to
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get that's not a compliment to miles
00:05:44
michelas it's very much the opposite in
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terms of the way that he's performing
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this season and look we've seen very
00:05:49
good versions of miles micheles but even
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in those years heavily relying on Pitch
00:05:53
to contact and so you got to be able to
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miss the barrel and his stuff I don't
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think has the sharpness at this stage of
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his career to miss the barrel and um so
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we're seeing the results that we're
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seeing for Miles michelas if that's your
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reaction on the 8th of September in 2024
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I'm not sure money aside what you're
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going to reasonably expect miles
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Michaels to be in
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2025 this may be one where the Cardinals
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have to recognize the sunk cost if they
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don't think Michaels is one of their
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best five starters I don't think they
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should put him out there next year um
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even if that just means eating the money
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which is very interesting because you
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might say the same thing about Stephen
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mats those are two contracts that are
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really not too great right now for the
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Cardinals in terms of having reliability
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in a rotation and the money they're
00:06:34
spending on that now stepen mats came
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out and threw four Innings of relief
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behind michelas in that game on Sunday
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gave up two runs both earned two hits
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one walk four strikeouts he was
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decidedly fine did give up one home run
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Michaels gave up one home run um but
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like I I think you would look at him in
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a very similar vein and say is is Steven
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matz somebody that despite the 11
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million you still owe him that you
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really are eager to put into your
00:06:57
rotation next year I I don't know what
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the Cardinals are going to do they have
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multiple guys that are kind of in this
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spot you have Kyle Gibson who pitched
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really well in in the one win the
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Cardinals got in the series on Saturday
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Gibby didn't get the win himself because
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the the the runs came later via a pero
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pah's home run but do you bring Gibby
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back under a contract of similar uh
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dollar amount what's the Lance Lyn
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status going to look like they'll see
00:07:21
him on Wednesday I believe with Palante
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going Tuesday still have to figure out a
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lot about next year's rotation and I and
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there's probably I don't know know seven
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eight candidates maybe even more that
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you could consider they could go the
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route of hey anybody under an option
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just decide to not bring him back and
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save the money there decide between
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michelas and Matts maybe you eat the
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contract of one but you try to pitch the
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other every fifth day but you come into
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spring with guys like mcgrey and grao
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and and and Company whoever that could
00:07:49
be from the internal grouping competing
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for a spot like maybe that's the way
00:07:53
that the Cardinals end up going with it
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I I don't know that there's a perfect
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answer and one that's going to be
00:07:57
satisfactory to Cardinal fans especially
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because I think you know there's going
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to be a disappointment amongst the fan
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base for the notion that they're not
00:08:06
necessarily going to be as aggressive as
00:08:08
I I think people are going to want them
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to be with filling out the the top-notch
00:08:12
rotation and doing whatever it takes to
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get that on day one of 2025 I think you
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could be looking at a case where you
00:08:18
know Sunny's going to be in there you
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know Eric fed's going to be in there and
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I really think Andre Palante deserves a
00:08:22
shot beyond that you could look at a
00:08:24
group of four or five players that are
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all internal options um it granted Lynn
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and Gibson would technically need to be
00:08:32
picked up on their options but there is
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the contractual language to do that and
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how do the Cardinals want to approach it
00:08:39
how much money do they want to save on
00:08:40
the payroll next year where does a guy
00:08:42
like Paul gold Schmid fit into that
00:08:44
where he's come on strong as of late has
00:08:46
a 712 Ops now for the season and is he
00:08:48
somebody that the Cardinals are going to
00:08:50
want to bring back what would that cost
00:08:51
how does that bake into and and impact
00:08:54
the decisions they might make in terms
00:08:55
of the money they have to spend in the
00:08:57
rotation um I would say look don't
00:08:59
necessar necessarily jump into a free
00:09:01
agent contract for a starting pitcher if
00:09:04
you are considerate of the notion that
00:09:07
the last few haven't really worked out
00:09:09
obviously Michaelis wasn't a free agent
00:09:12
contract and and I'm talking about the
00:09:14
last few long ones like Stephen mats is
00:09:15
one that's still in the back of your
00:09:16
mind that you that you made a commitment
00:09:20
on for four years and if you dig into
00:09:22
that same tier of free agent pitcher
00:09:24
four years down the road is that going
00:09:26
to result in something similar are you
00:09:28
going to be having buyers remorse on
00:09:30
that guy a couple years down the line I
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don't think the Cardinals
00:09:32
organizationally are in a position to
00:09:34
where they want to do that again with
00:09:36
the frequency that they have had to in
00:09:37
the past few years it would be nice if
00:09:40
they could develop a couple of guys that
00:09:41
that could help you know ease the burden
00:09:43
a little bit on what it looks like to go
00:09:45
out and build a rotation through free
00:09:47
agency and and sometimes via trade so I
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I'm not sure what it's going to end up
00:09:50
being but that's certainly um a topic of
00:09:53
conversation in a situation that I I
00:09:55
think we're going to continue to have to
00:09:56
monitor it's going to be one of the most
00:09:57
interesting stories of the offseason
00:09:59
along with the goldie thing along with
00:10:00
just generally um obviously what what
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what's going to happen at a higher level
00:10:04
than just the roster itself in terms of
00:10:06
the front office and the direction that
00:10:09
the organization is going to go there
00:10:11
and with that in mind let's go ahead and
00:10:13
shift gears to the other topic I wanted
00:10:15
to talk about tonight is uh we got again
00:10:17
it seems to be that that Tom arrian's
00:10:19
getting all the Scoops here the director
00:10:21
for KMOX who had John mzac on for their
00:10:24
weekly visit as they do on every Sunday
00:10:27
for their show Sports on a Sunday
00:10:28
morning
00:10:30
and of course with the retirement of the
00:10:32
director of Player Development Gary
00:10:34
Lorac that was announced within the past
00:10:36
week Tom acrian asked John mosac about
00:10:39
that and mo had some interesting
00:10:42
comments not necessarily comments that
00:10:44
were altogether surprising but certainly
00:10:46
that's somebody who has been within the
00:10:47
organization in a prominent role since
00:10:49
2008 and that overlaps the tenure of
00:10:52
John mosac running the team so uh to
00:10:55
think about the the ways the Cardinals
00:10:57
had won in the development
00:10:59
game for so long during Mo's tenure and
00:11:03
that that has sort of Gone by the
00:11:04
wayside and we have seen the Cardinals
00:11:05
maybe fall behind a little bit in that
00:11:07
category the notion of having the person
00:11:09
who's been in charge now retiring does
00:11:11
that change the Outlook and change the
00:11:13
direction maybe that the Cardinals are
00:11:14
going to look to go with some of these
00:11:17
opportunities and how they look to fill
00:11:19
them from potentially external option so
00:11:21
there was some conversation about that
00:11:23
within this clip I'll play from you
00:11:24
courtesy of KMOX and their Show with Tom
00:11:26
Akerman Sports on a Sunday morning where
00:11:28
they were actually talking about the
00:11:29
Cardinal Hall of Fame induction stuff
00:11:31
that happened this weekend and Dave
00:11:32
Duncan being a real highlight of that
00:11:35
but it sort of led to this question then
00:11:36
from Tom acen that you'll hear about
00:11:39
kind of getting the organization back to
00:11:41
uh the days where you see all those guys
00:11:43
in red jackets and you see the
00:11:45
collection of of talented individuals
00:11:47
who have have sort of helped build the
00:11:48
Cardinals into what the Cardinals are
00:11:50
known to be as an organization and a
00:11:52
franchise and all of those great things
00:11:54
and kind of then understanding and jux
00:11:56
opposing that to the notion that well
00:11:58
right now the cardal are not where they
00:11:59
they want to be and that led to a pretty
00:12:01
interesting answer from Mo where clearly
00:12:03
there's been some reflection that has
00:12:04
gone on and the notion of change is
00:12:06
something that is needed within the or
00:12:07
so I'll play the question from Tom acman
00:12:10
for you and then you can hear from John
00:12:11
moock for his thoughts on exactly what
00:12:13
all that might entail courtesy of kmo
00:12:15
and I know you want that you know you
00:12:17
look at that that history and you you
00:12:19
remember when the Cardinals were the
00:12:22
Envy of Major League Baseball you want
00:12:24
that again it's it's finding the right
00:12:26
mix of players to grow within your
00:12:29
organization finding free agents that
00:12:31
you can add to that list uh do you feel
00:12:34
that also that you feel the
00:12:36
responsibility when you see the
00:12:38
greatness in the past that this addition
00:12:41
you wish could get to that and next
00:12:43
year well I think you're always striving
00:12:46
um to to find that right recipe I think
00:12:49
the the real question becomes like
00:12:51
what's that look like and what does that
00:12:53
mean and and so you know one of the
00:12:55
things that I feel like in in the game
00:12:57
of baseball as you look at or the the
00:13:00
economics of what's happening in our
00:13:02
industry there are the the the mid to
00:13:05
small Market teams that that you have to
00:13:07
get the draft and Player Development
00:13:09
right you just have to um to truly be
00:13:12
successful in this league you can't have
00:13:15
many misses on your draft picks and when
00:13:17
you have draft picks you got to be able
00:13:19
to squeeze the most juice out of that as
00:13:21
possible to really be successful and so
00:13:24
as I think about the future for the
00:13:26
organization obviously with Gary Lorac
00:13:28
and anouncing his retirement you know
00:13:31
there there's going to be some changes
00:13:33
and and I think is is great a job as
00:13:37
Gary did I think it's going to be a nice
00:13:39
opportunity to welcome some change and
00:13:41
so I certainly look forward to uh the
00:13:44
next few months and just see where we
00:13:46
end up and and what that leadership
00:13:48
looks like but you know I definitely
00:13:50
feel like um we do have to have some
00:13:52
changes from within because uh you know
00:13:55
we're not where we need to be and we
00:13:57
need to get back there so kind of
00:13:59
interesting there from cardal president
00:14:00
of the baseball operations John loock
00:14:02
talking with Tom acrian on camo X's
00:14:04
Sports on a Sunday Morning Show
00:14:06
basically I mean Tom does a great job he
00:14:08
didn't ask Mo you know what what are you
00:14:10
gonna do you gonna make some changes he
00:14:12
kind of said look compare the all that
00:14:15
greatness that you saw over the weekend
00:14:17
and you want to get the Cardinals back
00:14:18
to that right and so that was a a very
00:14:20
well done uh transition there by Tom and
00:14:24
mo answered the question in a way that
00:14:26
like he added to it said look we know
00:14:28
there needs to be changes to get back
00:14:29
where we want to be and and I'm looking
00:14:31
forward to the next couple of months and
00:14:32
hey that Gary Lorac thing happened and
00:14:34
that's we we thank him for the great job
00:14:36
he did but also this is an opportunity
00:14:37
to maybe make some changes and then it
00:14:39
was interesting the followup that Tom
00:14:41
asked him uh basically pertaining to hey
00:14:44
could some of those changes be external
00:14:46
in nature as the Cardinals maybe look to
00:14:47
shift their Direction a little bit
00:14:49
here's what John mosak had to say there
00:14:51
do you also Chang this from within for
00:14:53
sure do you do you want to look outside
00:14:55
do you want to when the time is right to
00:14:57
poke around and see which teams are
00:15:00
doing it right which teams are doing it
00:15:02
great which teams are being Innovative
00:15:04
and perhaps taking some of those people
00:15:07
and and putting them in the mix yeah to
00:15:10
to you give you the cliffnote version I
00:15:12
mean that's already been done it's now
00:15:15
it's about you know beginning the
00:15:17
process of of of the interviewing and um
00:15:22
getting that moving and hopefully in
00:15:24
within the next several months we have
00:15:26
leadership in place and then we can just
00:15:28
keep moving forward
00:15:29
so interesting comments for sure from
00:15:31
John moock and interesting to hear him
00:15:33
talk about leadership as well because he
00:15:34
obviously is the leadership of the
00:15:35
organization but we know that that's not
00:15:37
going to be the case for all too much
00:15:38
longer even if he sees his contract
00:15:40
through to through to 2025 like we
00:15:43
expect him to do sounds like he I mean
00:15:45
when he says leadership I I don't think
00:15:47
that just necessarily means Player
00:15:48
Development I think he's talking about
00:15:51
organizational hierarchy and and you
00:15:54
know he could very well have a hand and
00:15:55
a strong hand I expect that he probably
00:15:57
will in how the transition goes down and
00:16:00
and who ends up not only replacing him
00:16:02
but sort of replacing the entire
00:16:04
leadership group or supplementing the
00:16:07
leadership group and having others come
00:16:09
in with different roles it's going to be
00:16:11
very very interesting to see and how
00:16:13
much of those changes happened prior to
00:16:15
2025 or set up what it could be after
00:16:17
2025 is going to be fascinating to watch
00:16:20
unfold but that's kind of where the
00:16:21
Cardinals are at right now I think you
00:16:22
can expect a pretty good amount of
00:16:24
change and then it's just going to
00:16:25
depend on exactly what they're going to
00:16:27
do roster wise rotation wise I think is
00:16:30
a big question but hey if they don't
00:16:31
bring Goldie back do they try to replace
00:16:33
him do they go outside and do everything
00:16:36
that they can to bring in additional
00:16:38
help offensively do they replace some of
00:16:40
the guys that we thought coming into
00:16:41
this year were going to be long-term
00:16:44
fixtures for the team but they haven't
00:16:45
performed and so the Cardinal might look
00:16:46
to trade somebody I mean I think there
00:16:48
is a number of things that could happen
00:16:49
with this Cardinal team and we'll
00:16:51
definitely be interested in seeing kind
00:16:52
of the way that it all plays out but
00:16:55
that's kind of my thoughts for today
00:16:56
trying toh keep it brief but make sure I
00:16:58
can check in with you guys I know it's
00:17:00
been a little bit hit and miss here
00:17:01
recently as uh let's be honest the the
00:17:04
interest in what's going on around the
00:17:05
Cardinals has dwindled but I fully
00:17:06
expect September to have some moments
00:17:09
within it that we're going to continue
00:17:10
to uh to bring a b-shaped daily and
00:17:11
honestly I think we'll be even closer to
00:17:14
Everyday full length podcast when we get
00:17:15
into the offseason and can actually
00:17:17
start to dive in Beyond just speculation
00:17:19
on on some of the stuff that's going to
00:17:20
be happening this winter so uh stick
00:17:22
with the channel here make sure you
00:17:24
subscribed you don't want to miss
00:17:25
anything coming up this offseason for
00:17:26
the Cardinals I wish we weren't talking
00:17:27
offseason on the 9th of September but
00:17:29
it's kind of the way that things are
00:17:30
leaning um with where the standings are
00:17:32
for the Cardinals anything can happen
00:17:33
they could definitely go on a run but it
00:17:35
sort of feels like uh we're we're just
00:17:37
waiting for this season to drain down so
00:17:38
let me know if that's the way you feel
00:17:40
if you see a run in the Cardinals or if
00:17:42
you've kind of shifted your attention as
00:17:43
well to 2025 we'll continue to stay on
00:17:45
top of all things Cardinals that are
00:17:47
pertinent though here on the channel
00:17:48
that'll do it for this edition of the
00:17:50
show appreciate you guys as always and
00:17:52
we'll talk to you next time on bsha
00:17:53
daily peace
