Nationalism vs. globalism: the new political divide | Yuval Noah Harari

Chris Anderson introduces TED Dialogues, expressing concern over growing divisiveness in politics and society, and highlights the need for reasoned conversation. He introduces Yuval Noah Harari, author of "Sapiens," known for synthesizing history with deep insights. Harari discusses the loss of a unifying story in the world post-2016, with people doubting the previous narrative of globalization and liberal politics leading to progress. Despite measurable progress, many feel left out, questioning globalization's impact.

The dialogue shifts to the obsolete left-right political model, now overshadowed by global vs. national dynamics. Harari emphasizes that while the global economy rises, national politics remains stagnant, leading to inaction against global forces. Solutions include either de-globalizing the economy or globalizing politics. Harari sees the populist wave as a reaction to political systems not serving ordinary people and describes the retrogressive visions in politics, advocating for patriotism within a globally cooperative framework.

Harari discusses how national models are inadequate for global problems like climate change and technological disruption, underscoring the need for global cooperation to manage global ecosystems and technologies such as AI and bioengineering. He points out that nationalism, while historically significant, does not address issues that transcend national borders, suggesting that the scale of current global issues requires global solutions, not national or protectionist approaches.

Chris Anderson and Yuval Harari explore the role of technology in job displacement, stressing the new threat being technological over globalism. Harari argues that future job losses will be due to AI and automation rather than immigration or trade. Education systems must prepare for a radically different job market. He stresses that nationalistic approaches will fail in addressing tech-driven job displacement, highlighting the need for policy innovation and global cooperation.

Harari warns of historical transitions where technological advances have unintentionally worsened individual lives despite benefiting humanity on a macro scale. There's a risk of repeating this with current technologies, increasing inequality. He discusses elitism, technological empowerment of the few over the many, and the shift of authority from humans to algorithms. Harari underscores the historical pattern of humans not anticipating negative repercussions of technological revolutions.

As a counterpoint to nationalism's resurgence, Harari argues for global cooperation, stressing the challenge of convincing people about AI's impact. He links nationalism's denial of issues like climate change to its inability to provide global solutions, highlighting shared, multi-layered loyalties over exclusive ones. Harari suggests cultivating global policies that accommodate local identities, urging global solutions for inherently global problems like job displacement and technological regulations.

Questions from the audience touch on income inequality, where Harari criticizes national solutions for global economic problems. He explains the complexities of universal basic income, highlighting the impracticality without real global cooperation. Harari notes that while nationalism today is more benign than in the past, the threat of conflict remains if poor decisions are made. The growing divide between honest governance and corrupt systems further complicates prospects for global governance.

Jonathan Haidt questions global governance feasibility due to widespread corruption. Harari admits it's complex without real models, emphasizing global governance isn't about replacing local identities but aiding in global problem-solving via authority in lose-lose scenarios. Skepticism on universal democracy is noted, comparing it to historical governments. Audience concerns include challenges like climate migrants, showing the limitations of national solutions to global crises.

Yuval Harari discusses the balance of power between politics and technology, noting leaders' limited ability for good but potential for harm. He emphasizes historical patterns where leaders have regressed progress, highlighting how collective influences, not just individuals, drive history. Addressing identity politics, Harari stresses the fictional nature of identities and warns of their dangers. He advocates embracing multiple identities, countering exclusive nationalist loyalty.

The conversation explores the danger of a "useless class" due to technological advances outpacing human employment capacity. Harari stresses this risk, urging education reforms. Recognizing 'uselessness' as an economic construct, he invites a philosophical consideration: What is the human role in the universe, challenging the notion that humans have a cosmic role by emphasizing consciousness and suffering as more pertinent human conditions, leading to a call for reducing suffering.

Harari differentiates between consciousness and intelligence, noting the current advances in AI lack consciousness. He suggests humans aren't uniquely sentient; other animals share this quality. Emphasizing suffering over cosmic roles, Harari calls for liberation from suffering. Discussion also covers reality versus fiction, with the test of suffering as a measure of reality. Harari questions the sincerity of the "post-truth" era term, arguing misinformation's long history.