00:00:00
one french fry equals the toxicity of
00:00:02
one cigarette doctors do learn what
00:00:04
dietitians learn but you know that's
00:00:06
very limited what we do learn is most of
00:00:09
it is not true never before in history
00:00:12
to my knowledge had an entire
00:00:13
organization done the deal with the
00:00:16
devil which they did kids born in the
00:00:18
year 2000 were going to live to be 120
00:00:21
and I was like that's not what I'm
00:00:24
seeing I'm seeing a health catastrophe
00:00:28
unfold so today I am invited Dr Kate
00:00:31
Shanahan to talk about an important
00:00:34
topic seed oils so welcome Dr Kate I
00:00:38
really appreciate you being on here
00:00:40
thank you so much Eric because this is
00:00:42
such an important topic and I am so
00:00:44
delighted to be able to speak about this
00:00:46
with you yeah and the reason I wanted to
00:00:49
bring you on is because you're you're
00:00:51
basically the first person to really
00:00:53
bring this kind of mainstream this
00:00:55
really important point on some of the
00:00:58
dangers of seed oils but I just want to
00:01:00
just very quickly give us a little
00:01:03
summary on you graduated in 1994 right
00:01:07
yes from medical school yes medical
00:01:09
school so in school I'm sure they don't
00:01:12
probably give you a lot of information
00:01:13
on nutrition or even food therapy right
00:01:16
am I correct we had a nutrition course
00:01:19
we learn what dietitians learn doctors
00:01:21
do learn what dietitians learn but
00:01:23
that's very limited what we do learn is
00:01:26
most of it is not true I'm sure you've
00:01:28
had people discussing before salt
00:01:30
doesn't cause hypertension fat doesn't
00:01:32
make you fat you know sugar is not the
00:01:34
ideal fuel for our cells so you know
00:01:36
most of what we learn about nutrition is
00:01:39
actually misinformation and so it's
00:01:42
dangerous and so doctors are actually
00:01:44
dangerous when if you're trusting your
00:01:47
doctor's nutrition advice you're going
00:01:50
to end up sick yeah even if they bring
00:01:52
up the topic because I I don't even
00:01:54
remember any doctor that I've ever been
00:01:56
to ask me okay so the first question is
00:01:59
what have you been eating
00:02:00
yeah they'll bring it up you know if
00:02:01
your cholesterol is high which isn't
00:02:03
actually a problem that it's a problem
00:02:05
they've invented like they'll bring it
00:02:06
up under limited circumstances but the
00:02:09
the medical like Doctrine is not to look
00:02:12
for real root causes and so like that's
00:02:15
what really lights a fire under my um
00:02:19
Parts about like getting uh getting the
00:02:21
word out here because if we could get to
00:02:23
the root cause we can fix everything and
00:02:26
I've seen it happen you know hundreds of
00:02:29
times per personally and thousands of
00:02:31
testimonials now as I'm sure you have
00:02:33
since you give similar advice but the
00:02:35
degree of you know how powerful it is
00:02:39
and just how um how much we can prevent
00:02:45
is just so exciting and it's so simple
00:02:47
if you boil it down the way that I do in
00:02:49
my latest book Dark calories you know I
00:02:52
got I got your book and it just is I
00:02:54
love the title of the book Dark calories
00:02:57
because I just pulled me right I'm like
00:02:58
oh what's that all about right so I have
00:03:01
a series of questions I want to ask you
00:03:02
and I want to dissect this topic
00:03:05
starting from how can you possibly take
00:03:08
seed oils which is very unstable what do
00:03:10
they do to preserve it so the oil
00:03:13
actually is
00:03:15
problematic because they initiate the
00:03:19
formation of toxins and that there is no
00:03:23
preservation what's happening is
00:03:26
invisible toxicity is developing in the
00:03:29
body
00:03:30
most of us can't even detect what would
00:03:32
be a signal that these oils are no good
00:03:36
which is called
00:03:38
rancidity um which is different from
00:03:41
oxidation it's um oxid it's not so these
00:03:44
oils are not necessarily are they rancid
00:03:46
or are they
00:03:48
oxidized they are both and it depends on
00:03:51
the time frame you're talking about so
00:03:53
the oils that are bad are all seed oils
00:03:57
that have these unstable fatty acids as
00:03:59
you mentioned but they have also been
00:04:02
refined bleached and
00:04:05
deodorized and all of the stabilizing
00:04:08
factors that were in the seed that makes
00:04:11
the seeds actually even nutritious in
00:04:14
some cases those are Stripped Away as
00:04:17
part of the refining the reason that
00:04:19
there's no rancidity actually is part of
00:04:22
the refining too that's a necessary part
00:04:24
of the refining um and it's a it's
00:04:28
actually the free fat acids that make it
00:04:30
rancid so things like olive oil can also
00:04:35
go rancid right but they take a longer
00:04:37
time because they've got the stabilizing
00:04:39
factors and they've got the better fatty
00:04:41
acids but it's just the problem with
00:04:44
these oils is the lack of any
00:04:46
nutritional value pretty much whatsoever
00:04:48
there's there's very few in nature you
00:04:50
have these seeds that have protective
00:04:52
factors so we're removing all that stuff
00:04:54
and in the industrial process what are
00:04:58
some of the stages that you go through
00:04:59
you mention
00:05:00
like bleaching and things but what do
00:05:01
they actually do to turn the seed into
00:05:03
this oil well the first thing they do is
00:05:06
they create a crude oil using a lot of
00:05:08
heat and pressure that extracts the oil
00:05:12
and this process can be done with what
00:05:15
they call cold pressing once it's
00:05:17
kickstarted you cannot stop it so these
00:05:22
toxins will continue to develop and
00:05:26
multiply and even change like some
00:05:29
toxins that are there at day two after
00:05:32
refining are gone by day
00:05:35
14 and then when you cook with them you
00:05:39
get more toxins when you reheat it you
00:05:42
get more toxins so by the time you've
00:05:44
made the say of french fry which is
00:05:46
cooked you know regular french fry from
00:05:48
a fast food joint continuously heated
00:05:51
for a few days or weeks the average
00:05:54
french fry contains as much as smoking a
00:05:58
cigarette one french fry equals the
00:06:00
toxicity of one
00:06:01
cigarette what oh my gosh that's crazy
00:06:05
so that's how they multiply I mean so
00:06:06
this multiplication problem is real
00:06:09
could we relate this to free radical
00:06:12
exposure or or not is this just a
00:06:14
different type of toxicity it free
00:06:17
radicals are definitely involved they're
00:06:19
involved in the process of creating the
00:06:21
toxins because oxidation and um you know
00:06:24
free radicals are kind of slightly
00:06:26
different but very similar in that they
00:06:28
destroy cellular membranes they destroy
00:06:31
our cellular Health both of them
00:06:33
oxidation and free radicals once if you
00:06:35
have oxidation you're going to get free
00:06:36
radicals if you have free radicals
00:06:38
you're going to get oxidation so when
00:06:41
we're
00:06:41
consuming this seed oil what is it
00:06:45
actually doing to our membranes the
00:06:48
toxins that form in the bottle that form
00:06:51
when we cook with seed oils that form in
00:06:52
our Foods when we cook with that with
00:06:54
seed oils those toxins have the capacity
00:06:58
to damage our cell and it just will not
00:07:01
function because these oxidation
00:07:04
reactions are the very thing that
00:07:06
triggers the inflammatory response
00:07:09
system you see this on your skin right
00:07:11
with a sunburn actually is the simplest
00:07:14
form of uh visible membrane oxidation
00:07:19
damage and it happens worse when you
00:07:21
have a high seed oil diet because a
00:07:24
little bit of toxicity a little bit of
00:07:27
oxidation reaction becomes Unstoppable
00:07:32
on a high seed oil diet because of it
00:07:34
how it affects us there's so many other
00:07:37
consequences that you know I have to
00:07:39
write separate chapters about each of
00:07:41
these it's just
00:07:44
unbelievable but the good news is that
00:07:46
means it's the most powerful lever by
00:07:48
which you can improve your health and
00:07:52
none of this is something that I learned
00:07:53
in medical school you know let me go
00:07:56
without
00:07:57
saying right this is all stuff I had to
00:08:00
figure out because I wanted to be able
00:08:02
to help my patients really truly help
00:08:06
them and I didn't feel like drugs were
00:08:08
doing much what initially got you to
00:08:12
start looking outside the box was there
00:08:15
something that occurred I met a family a
00:08:17
four generation Hawaii family and the
00:08:20
grandmother was actually this was the
00:08:22
great grandmother who had brought in her
00:08:25
great grandson and she was in her 80s
00:08:28
and in still Health her chart was about
00:08:31
five pages thick coming in for you know
00:08:34
tennis shots and stitches and her great
00:08:38
grandson was uh just 10 but he was on
00:08:41
three daily medications had thick bottle
00:08:43
you know bottleneck glasses
00:08:45
braces uh lots of chronic allergies
00:08:48
chronic learning disorder problems the
00:08:50
dominant narrative was we had just spent
00:08:53
the 20th century expanding our longevity
00:08:56
you know at the beginning it was like 40
00:08:58
years by the end it was
00:09:00
you know 77 on average they were
00:09:02
predicting that kids born in the year
00:09:04
2000 were going to live to be 120 and I
00:09:08
was like that's not what I'm seeing I'm
00:09:11
seeing a health catastrophe unfold right
00:09:15
before my eyes I'm a family practice
00:09:17
doctor so that's why I was caring for
00:09:20
all these different generations and I
00:09:22
knew the family intimately and I was
00:09:24
like this is I had just met the
00:09:27
great-grandson and that's that was the
00:09:29
Tipping Point because I'm like this is
00:09:32
wrong and I I've got to get to the
00:09:34
bottom of this and I also had my own
00:09:35
health problems my own health challenges
00:09:37
that had that had kind of just spurred
00:09:39
me to start looking into nutrition as
00:09:42
well and so I felt like I needed to get
00:09:44
to the truth because the narrative was
00:09:47
saturated fat was the problem and so I
00:09:49
was like okay so what is doing this to
00:09:52
us is it just the deprivation of
00:09:55
nutrients like Weston Price talked about
00:09:57
or is there something else going on and
00:10:00
two halves of my life came together
00:10:02
because before I went to medical school
00:10:03
I was a biochemist I um I went to
00:10:06
Cornell be for biochemistry um to get a
00:10:09
PhD in being able to modify bacteria to
00:10:13
digest plastic and as soon as I found
00:10:15
out about like these oils that were
00:10:17
everywhere and I hadn't been paying
00:10:19
attention um I was like this is so
00:10:22
important and I just dove into trying to
00:10:26
figure out the connections and and
00:10:27
really there wasn't any I couldn't just
00:10:30
read something that existed I had to use
00:10:34
the understanding of biochemistry that I
00:10:36
had gained before going to medical
00:10:38
school and then kind of push that into
00:10:41
what I learned about medicine to create
00:10:44
basically a whole new way of thinking
00:10:46
about the root cause of disease and
00:10:48
that's what I've been writing about for
00:10:51
uh like 14 15 years now wow you know on
00:10:55
top of this uh heart healthy seed oil so
00:10:59
thinking oh yeah it's it's fine you know
00:11:01
that's just been ingrained in our minds
00:11:03
how can they claim that the doctors
00:11:05
don't know that the data that supports
00:11:09
that
00:11:10
claim was bought and sold by Proctor and
00:11:14
Gamble who
00:11:15
funded the American Heart Association
00:11:18
the entire
00:11:20
organization there have been doctors who
00:11:23
like individual doctors throughout
00:11:25
history who were willing to you know
00:11:27
take money and say whatever say
00:11:29
cigarettes are healthy you know that
00:11:30
happened repeatedly but never before in
00:11:33
history to my knowledge had an entire
00:11:36
organization done the deal with the
00:11:38
devil which they did the person who
00:11:41
stepped up to basically defend seed oils
00:11:44
is Ansel keys and anel keys had this big
00:11:48
idea that saturated fat clogged Our
00:11:50
arteries but polyunsaturates being
00:11:53
liquid wouldn't I mean really it was
00:11:55
really that simplistic and and frankly
00:11:58
stupid idea that's not how the Body
00:12:00
Works he wasn't a medical doctor but he
00:12:03
went around the world with all this
00:12:04
money that Proctor and Gamble gave him
00:12:07
creating just Reams and reams of of
00:12:10
paperwork that passes for evidence
00:12:15
because nobody reads it like I when I
00:12:17
look at it when I read it myself I was
00:12:20
like I can't believe this stuff is ever
00:12:23
got published it's basically random
00:12:26
musings and rantings there's nothing
00:12:28
systemat IC about it and it contradicts
00:12:31
itself because there's other authors who
00:12:33
disagreed with keys because he was kind
00:12:35
of a jerk and and he was trying to gas
00:12:37
late everybody that was working with him
00:12:40
into going along with his theory but the
00:12:42
evidence wasn't showing his theory was
00:12:44
right wasn't there another book called
00:12:47
The Prudent diet that was pushed at that
00:12:49
time the um American Heart Association
00:12:52
got behind this other doctor who was
00:12:55
promoting his diet book which was full
00:12:58
of seed oils and margarine you know
00:13:01
because he he saw the trend coming right
00:13:04
he was connect they were interconnected
00:13:06
buddies and he was like okay great so
00:13:09
this is the trend so let's jump on this
00:13:10
trend I'm going to write a book that
00:13:12
basically the American Heart Association
00:13:15
um you know supported there was Mutual
00:13:17
interests they supported each other and
00:13:20
it became wildly popular to avoid
00:13:24
saturated fat thanks to that book which
00:13:27
again no evidence
00:13:30
no evidence but it was so promoted and
00:13:35
popular that it radically changed what
00:13:40
Americans ate forever this is going to
00:13:43
go down in history unfortunately I don't
00:13:46
know when there's going to be class
00:13:48
action stud you know like uh uh trans
00:13:50
fats been around for like a hundred
00:13:52
years and they finally say okay now it's
00:13:54
bad after 90 years my goal is just on a
00:13:56
Grassroots level to get people to be
00:13:59
aware of this and start to avoid it and
00:14:03
do the alternative things but what about
00:14:05
the relationship between seed oils and
00:14:08
insulin resistance is there a connection
00:14:10
there this is so important and this is
00:14:14
um what I call my energy model of
00:14:18
insulin resistance because insulin
00:14:20
resistance is nearly ubiquitous in this
00:14:22
country um something close to 99% of the
00:14:27
population was found to be insulin
00:14:30
resistant on a large survey done and uh
00:14:36
done in you know the Year
00:14:38
2006 and it's probably worse but nobody
00:14:42
knows the what the root cause of insulin
00:14:45
resistance is and people are talking
00:14:46
about it being carbohydrates and I would
00:14:49
say that that's not what the science
00:14:51
suggests it boils down to the fact that
00:14:53
your body fat when you've been filling
00:14:56
it up with the poly inss saturates from
00:14:58
seed oils
00:15:00
does not give your mitochondria the fuel
00:15:03
that they need and it can actually hurt
00:15:05
your mitochondria I just want to just
00:15:07
pause there because this is like very
00:15:09
interesting we consume fats we consume
00:15:12
carbs that turn into fats but seed oils
00:15:16
I just you know people assume well
00:15:18
they're just burned up as energy right
00:15:19
just burned up just like any other fuel
00:15:22
right but that's not true that's not
00:15:24
true wow wow so so they get stored
00:15:29
somewhere in the fat cell or something
00:15:31
and they just our bodies can't use it
00:15:32
effectively or they get stored in the
00:15:35
fat cells that's exactly right and they
00:15:38
it because of the amount that the
00:15:39
average person is eating now where 80%
00:15:42
of their fat calories are coming from
00:15:43
seed oils what what percentage 80% of
00:15:46
our fat calories are coming from seed
00:15:48
oils now it's not all poly ins saturates
00:15:50
so doesn't mean our our body fat is that
00:15:52
many poly and saturat but it has way
00:15:55
more right it has uh normally
00:15:57
historically somewhere around 5% maybe
00:15:59
less some people say more but somewhere
00:16:01
around 5% historically um and now people
00:16:05
have something like 20 30
00:16:07
40% we've changed the chemistry of the
00:16:12
largest organ in our body our adapost
00:16:15
fat tissue and it's making us crave
00:16:19
foods that will raise our sugar because
00:16:22
that's an alternative fuel right so just
00:16:25
our cells are like well Fat's not
00:16:27
working for us they don't don't know
00:16:29
from polysaturated whatever but they do
00:16:32
know another fuel is glucose always in
00:16:36
our
00:16:37
bloodstream and that's the key to
00:16:40
understanding this connection between
00:16:43
seed oils and obesity and Seed oils and
00:16:47
insulin resistance and Seed oils and all
00:16:50
metabolic diseases wow right that's the
00:16:53
key you know I'm developing an app to
00:16:56
pick up and scan and be able to identify
00:16:58
seed oils and Fus because it's in
00:17:00
mayonnaise it's in dressings it's in
00:17:03
pretty much all the restaurants you
00:17:06
can't find a restaurant without them
00:17:07
cooking something in seed oil yes so
00:17:10
that's why in the back of Dark calories
00:17:12
I give people a script to like to to say
00:17:16
to at different restaurants and
00:17:17
different settings like I help you
00:17:19
navigate this because it is a mindfield
00:17:22
the entire world wants to shove these
00:17:24
oils down your throat they don't care
00:17:27
it's cheap there's all these excuses
00:17:30
they use high smoke point neutral
00:17:32
nobody's allergic to it like peanut oil
00:17:34
for example and uh you know so there's
00:17:37
it's everywhere and um you have to have
00:17:41
your defenses ready so that's what the
00:17:43
last third of the book Dark calories
00:17:46
does is it gets gives you the defenses
00:17:49
you need to protect your health and your
00:17:52
family's health your children's health
00:17:54
everybody you care about if a person is
00:17:57
trying to figure out what to replace it
00:17:58
with with can you give us some ideas on
00:18:00
what are some safe oils that we could
00:18:02
cook with yeah so um I have my favorite
00:18:05
five but there's I list a delightful
00:18:08
dozen in the book so my favorite five
00:18:10
are olive oil butter coconut oil peanut
00:18:14
oil and sesame oil there's so many
00:18:17
choices and these things are delicious
00:18:19
right it makes your food taste better
00:18:21
because the other thing about these
00:18:23
deodorized oils and being refined is
00:18:26
they have no flavor agents in them and
00:18:30
what they do since they're so slippery
00:18:33
and Wiggly these poly ins saturates that
00:18:35
are flexible breakable molecules they
00:18:38
totally coat your uh taste buds so they
00:18:43
actually kind of can make it harder for
00:18:45
you to taste other things wow I didn't
00:18:49
know that if someone stops consuming
00:18:51
seed oils how long do it take to get it
00:18:54
out of your fat cell or your body is it
00:18:57
is it possible over time it is
00:19:00
absolutely possible and um it takes it
00:19:04
takes a while because we're talking
00:19:05
about you know exchanging pounds of of
00:19:09
molecules right so the estimates are
00:19:12
somewhere around a year and a half a lot
00:19:14
of people do focus on oh my God I don't
00:19:16
want things in these things in my body
00:19:18
and I have to wait a year and a half
00:19:21
that makes people like feel panicky and
00:19:24
you know they want to try like all kinds
00:19:26
of unproven detox methods and and stuff
00:19:29
like that um don't you don't need to
00:19:32
because you are going to be able to help
00:19:35
your mitochondria to improve your energy
00:19:37
and all the good things reverse insulin
00:19:39
resistance starting from day one you
00:19:41
start to improve your mitochondrial
00:19:44
function because the the foods that I
00:19:48
recommend in Dark calories give your
00:19:51
mitochondria energy they help you get
00:19:54
energy and the other thing that they do
00:19:56
is they help support your body's
00:20:00
antioxidant system which is so so
00:20:03
important so that your mitochondria
00:20:05
aren't quite so susceptible to you know
00:20:09
shutting down from burning a little bit
00:20:11
of pofa a little bit of the polyan
00:20:13
cetate fatty acids right and so we
00:20:15
really need to eat a diet that helps our
00:20:18
body create our own antioxidant enzymes
00:20:23
from scratch it's enzymes that we need
00:20:26
which are biological machines made out
00:20:28
of protein and they use vitamins they
00:20:31
use minerals to do their machine work of
00:20:36
you know capturing the free radicals and
00:20:39
literally catching the bad oxygen
00:20:43
molecules they break these free radical
00:20:45
chain reactions they they block the
00:20:47
oxidation but it's enzymes that we need
00:20:50
and they come from protein and a lot of
00:20:52
folks a lot of women especially
00:20:54
menopausal women I found don't get
00:20:57
anywhere near enough protein in their
00:21:01
diet right that's really that's really
00:21:03
important so what I'm going to do is I'm
00:21:05
going to put um I want to put your link
00:21:07
in the description and I highly
00:21:09
recommend everyone read that book
00:21:10
because it's called Dark calories
00:21:12
amazing I you won't be able to put it
00:21:14
down it's just filled with gold
00:21:15
information that wish we would have got
00:21:18
like 30 years ago you know when I
00:21:19
started getting interested in nutrition
00:21:21
so I just appreciate you spending the
00:21:24
time giving us this data and I'll have
00:21:27
to have you back on soon but you so much
00:21:31
I appreciate your expertise thank you
00:21:33
absolutely
