Why she left architecture.
Resumen
TLDRDani, an architect based in Vancouver, interviews Evelyn, who has undergone several career transitions away from traditional architectural roles. Evelyn started in architecture but moved into strategic roles and currently works as a senior experience designer at Slack. They discuss Evelyn's journey, her educational pursuits (MBA and MPA), and her strategic roles, including her work with non-profits and architectural consulting firm MK Think. Evelyn provides advice for young architects on career flexibility and networking. The conversation touches on industry shifts, the importance of diversifying services in architecture, and the evolving role of architectural education and practice.
Para llevar
- 👩💼 Evelyn's diverse career journey from architecture to strategic roles.
- 🎓 Importance of education, including an MBA and MPA, for career growth.
- 📈 Need for architecture firms to expand and diversify their services.
- 🎙 Evelyn founded Practice of Architecture to help professionals adapt.
- 🏢 Strategic thinking can lead to role expansion beyond traditional architecture.
- 📝 Young architects advised to explore diverse career paths and network.
- 🤝 Networking and informational interviews are vital for career shifts.
- 🧠 Architects should develop strategic skills to stay relevant.
- 📚 Traditional architectural education might need to adapt to industry shifts.
- 🗣 Professionals encouraged to use their voice and seek firms that value their input.
Cronología
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
Dani, an architect, introduces Evelyn, a guest with numerous career transitions in architecture, non-profits, and various leadership roles including at Slack and as a podcast founder.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Evelyn shares her career journey from childhood aspirations in architecture, realizing disconnection with building users, to working with non-profits and seeking more impact.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Her work with non-profits highlighted a common misperception about the role of architects, prompting her to pursue an MBA and MPA for better value articulation.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
After her MBA, she explored various consulting roles, leading her to strategic positions and eventually a senior designer role at Slack, while still valuing her architectural roots.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Discussing her MBA, Evelyn reflects on the lack of direction during her transition from architecture, taking a break to discover where her passions truly lay.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
Her educational path was a mix of serendipity and intention, pursuing theoretical understanding in architecture, contributing to her broader career shifts.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
Evelyn sees education as a critical foundation for problem-solving in architecture, advocating for more than just technical training.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
In Practice of Architecture, she explores alternative practices, demonstrating that even small firms can benefit from strategic, non-traditional roles in architecture.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
She gives advice to architecture students about leveraging networking and informational interviewing to explore varied career paths.
- 00:45:00 - 00:52:54
Evelyn concludes by highlighting the changing studio culture, the importance of voice in the architecture firm, and encouraging firms to adapt to new ideas.
Mapa mental
Vídeo de preguntas y respuestas
Who is interviewed in the video?
Evelyn, who has transitioned from being an architect to various strategic roles.
What is the main topic of the interview?
The interview discusses career transitions, especially in architecture, and advice for young architects.
What career transitions has Evelyn made?
She has transitioned from architecture to working with non-profits, obtaining an MBA and MPA, working in commercial real estate, and becoming a senior experience designer at Slack.
What is Practice of Architecture?
It is an organization founded by Evelyn, aiming to help architects and practices find new growth ideas in a changing world.
What strategic role did Evelyn play at MK Think?
She was a leader in the strategic studio, focusing on expanding the value architecture firms could offer beyond traditional roles.
What advice does Evelyn provide for young architects?
She suggests exploring various interests and networking, even cold emailing professionals to learn about career paths.
How does Evelyn suggest architecture practices can evolve?
By offering additional services beyond traditional architecture, being more involved in initial project stages, and adapting to new business models.
What educational background does Evelyn have?
She completed an MBA and an MPA to bolster her strategic and public administration skills.
What was Evelyn's role at Slack?
She works as a senior experience designer, utilizing her strategic skills.
Is the architectural industry's business model discussed?
Yes, Evelyn describes it as potentially failing and suggests practices need to become more flexible and strategic.
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- 00:00:00hi everyone thank you so much for
- 00:00:02joining me today
- 00:00:04my name is dani and i'm an architect
- 00:00:05based in vancouver bc
- 00:00:08have you ever felt stuck in your career
- 00:00:11and
- 00:00:11imagined yourself transitioning into a
- 00:00:14completely
- 00:00:15new path well my guest today
- 00:00:18has done that several times
- 00:00:22evelyn started her career in
- 00:00:24architecture and
- 00:00:25after becoming a licensed architect
- 00:00:28transitioned
- 00:00:28to working for an organization that
- 00:00:30connects architects with non-profits
- 00:00:33then she decided to go and get her mba
- 00:00:36and her mpa
- 00:00:38she worked as a strategic lead she
- 00:00:41worked as a managing director for a
- 00:00:43commercial real estate firm
- 00:00:45and she now works as a senior experience
- 00:00:48designer at slack
- 00:00:50she is also the founder of practice of
- 00:00:53architecture
- 00:00:54and now their new podcast practice
- 00:00:56disrupted
- 00:00:58where they help people and practices
- 00:00:59find new ideas for growth
- 00:01:02in a world that is constantly changing
- 00:01:06she's also the first female treasurer of
- 00:01:08the aia nationals board
- 00:01:10we are living in incredibly uncertain
- 00:01:13times
- 00:01:14but also very exciting times entire
- 00:01:17industries are changing
- 00:01:19traditional roles are being challenged
- 00:01:22and job security is definitely
- 00:01:24not guaranteed and job satisfaction is
- 00:01:28more
- 00:01:28nebulous than ever so in this interview
- 00:01:32evelyn and i talk about her various
- 00:01:35career transitions
- 00:01:37some practical tips for young architects
- 00:01:40and we also talk about the industry
- 00:01:42and the need for architecture firms to
- 00:01:45break out of the traditional method of
- 00:01:47practice so that they can be
- 00:01:49more relevant more involved and
- 00:01:52more profitable it was very interesting
- 00:01:57for me to hear her point of view
- 00:01:59especially because i have been
- 00:02:01questioning the direction of the
- 00:02:02industry myself
- 00:02:05as well as my own career path so
- 00:02:08i hope you find it interesting so here
- 00:02:11it is
- 00:02:14could you just talk about your
- 00:02:18career like all your career pivots
- 00:02:21a little bit and
- 00:02:22[Laughter]
- 00:02:24and how long do you how long do you have
- 00:02:28um well i i don't know i mean i think if
- 00:02:31if anything i would hope that people
- 00:02:34know that
- 00:02:35a career is really a journey i was
- 00:02:37always one of those individuals that
- 00:02:39wanted to
- 00:02:40be an architect i don't know ever since
- 00:02:42i was in the fourth grade i was one of
- 00:02:43those silly architects that knew like at
- 00:02:45a super young age like
- 00:02:46i want to be an architect without
- 00:02:49knowing what an architect actually did
- 00:02:51until i became an architect and i
- 00:02:53realized
- 00:02:54i was so disconnected from the end users
- 00:02:57of our buildings
- 00:02:59even though i was designing schools and
- 00:03:01community centers
- 00:03:03my time was spent more with this the
- 00:03:06city
- 00:03:06um and county staff we were working with
- 00:03:09or
- 00:03:10the school board than you know the
- 00:03:13actual students
- 00:03:14and the actual teachers and the people
- 00:03:16in the community and
- 00:03:19and that's where i wanted to spend my
- 00:03:20time hearing those voices
- 00:03:23because i felt that that was where i
- 00:03:24could make the biggest impact so i
- 00:03:26ultimately left architecture to go work
- 00:03:29for a non-profit organization up here in
- 00:03:31the bay area
- 00:03:32called public architecture and manage a
- 00:03:34program
- 00:03:36which has it's now called the oneplus
- 00:03:38program
- 00:03:39but essentially was established pre-the
- 00:03:42great recession
- 00:03:44when architects were at our you know we
- 00:03:46were doing really
- 00:03:47well the economy is in a highest wing
- 00:03:50and we're asking architects to give
- 00:03:52one percent of their billable hours
- 00:03:54towards the public good pro bono
- 00:03:56which if you think about it collectively
- 00:03:58would mean that it would be the biggest
- 00:04:00pro bono design firm globally
- 00:04:04uh so so the promise was super
- 00:04:07interesting
- 00:04:08but a lot of the architects were having
- 00:04:10problems finding nonprofit organizations
- 00:04:12to actually
- 00:04:14serve and create projects with so
- 00:04:17i was the first person to come on and
- 00:04:20look at how do we create those
- 00:04:22partnerships with nonprofit
- 00:04:23organizations
- 00:04:24and then i realized even myself as an
- 00:04:27architect
- 00:04:28um all other than unlicensed working
- 00:04:30towards licensure
- 00:04:31i was really ill-equipped
- 00:04:34uh to talk about the value proposition
- 00:04:37and i think
- 00:04:38architects always talk about we need to
- 00:04:40be much
- 00:04:41better about how we talk about our value
- 00:04:45and deliver because we're always
- 00:04:46under pricing our services and people
- 00:04:48don't understand our value
- 00:04:49well i i felt that i wasn't
- 00:04:53fully able to articulate that to the
- 00:04:55nonprofit organizations
- 00:04:56and it was clear that the nonprofit
- 00:04:58organizations and the majority of the
- 00:05:00public only felt
- 00:05:02that you know architects are only needed
- 00:05:05if you
- 00:05:06have a new ground up building right not
- 00:05:09necessarily
- 00:05:10like architects can even rearrange your
- 00:05:12space
- 00:05:13to help get better operations and
- 00:05:16processes
- 00:05:17going or that by doing certain things to
- 00:05:21your existing space
- 00:05:22you actually could raise the potential
- 00:05:25um
- 00:05:26of donors and the amount that donors are
- 00:05:29willing to give
- 00:05:30just purely because you come off as more
- 00:05:32professional and organized
- 00:05:34in the way you present yourself so
- 00:05:37i took that um notion and i went back to
- 00:05:40school to get my mba
- 00:05:42i ended up tagging on an mpa which is
- 00:05:45public administration
- 00:05:48because ultimately um the mba is much
- 00:05:52more qualitative and i felt more
- 00:05:54quantitative
- 00:05:55and i felt that mpa is much more
- 00:05:57qualitative and it was about
- 00:05:59research methodology methodologies
- 00:06:02used at the community level to gather
- 00:06:04information and then use that data
- 00:06:06to make decisions um at the civic level
- 00:06:09and i figured that i could use that
- 00:06:12to play out at a lot of different
- 00:06:14various consulting posts
- 00:06:17i landed at a consulting group called mk
- 00:06:19think actually it's an architecture and
- 00:06:20design group called mk think that had
- 00:06:23a strategic studio as one of its core
- 00:06:25competencies
- 00:06:26and i led that for multiple years i
- 00:06:29went to work with a firm a friend
- 00:06:32actually
- 00:06:33on the consultant side of workplace
- 00:06:37experience consulting at several
- 00:06:40different brokerages
- 00:06:41with the same team our team moved
- 00:06:43between brokerages
- 00:06:44and then i ended up taking that
- 00:06:47workplace experience and transitioning
- 00:06:50it to slack
- 00:06:51internally on the client side so that's
- 00:06:54where i am now
- 00:06:57right so a lot of pivots so
- 00:07:02just to backtrack a little bit
- 00:07:05when you went to do your mba because i
- 00:07:08think there are quite a few
- 00:07:10architects who want to pivot their
- 00:07:12careers they go in and do their mba
- 00:07:16did you have a clear idea of what you
- 00:07:19what kind of job you wanted to do after
- 00:07:22getting the mba
- 00:07:23no i i mean that was that was an unusual
- 00:07:25journey for me
- 00:07:26too it sounds like i had an idea i
- 00:07:29really didn't
- 00:07:30i was but i was in a point in my life
- 00:07:33where i didn't know what the what
- 00:07:34the next step was i was really
- 00:07:36struggling honestly internally
- 00:07:38because i had wanted to be an architect
- 00:07:40for so long and then
- 00:07:42i felt personally i kind of felt a loss
- 00:07:44of identity because i was like well if i
- 00:07:46don't want to be an architect then what
- 00:07:48do i want to be
- 00:07:49um i was i was younger i didn't have a
- 00:07:52family
- 00:07:54i didn't have a boyfriend i had no
- 00:07:56connections um
- 00:07:58and i just kind of took the risk and
- 00:08:01uh what i felt wasn't actually a much
- 00:08:03needed break
- 00:08:04um so i actually you know there's all of
- 00:08:07these
- 00:08:08there's even within the mba program
- 00:08:10there's these groups
- 00:08:11like the green building club or the real
- 00:08:13estate development club or the building
- 00:08:15tech club
- 00:08:16and i i actually specifically just
- 00:08:19it's like what if i just take a break
- 00:08:21from architecture all together
- 00:08:23and explore if anything
- 00:08:26speaks to me um and it was actually
- 00:08:29through that break that i realized i
- 00:08:31needed to do something that aligned a
- 00:08:33little bit more closely with
- 00:08:35with architecture because i actually
- 00:08:36missed it um
- 00:08:39but but yeah i it's like if i were to
- 00:08:43go do that now i think you know as a
- 00:08:45mother
- 00:08:46you know now married it's much harder
- 00:08:50it would it would be much harder
- 00:08:51honestly for me to make that decision to
- 00:08:53do that
- 00:08:54now um so it was kind of like a right
- 00:08:57time right place
- 00:08:58and i just took the risk and took on the
- 00:09:00debt and
- 00:09:01kind of just dove head in right where
- 00:09:05you let serendipity guide you
- 00:09:09i i did but i knew you know
- 00:09:14and maybe maybe i was a bit naive but i
- 00:09:16felt like
- 00:09:17well at least the very least i come out
- 00:09:20of this with an
- 00:09:21mba um so i've got to be able to
- 00:09:24use to leverage that into another role
- 00:09:26somehow
- 00:09:27um so i i felt like
- 00:09:31you know i i wasn't just sitting around
- 00:09:33doing nothing trying to figure out
- 00:09:35what's next i felt like i was like
- 00:09:37actively pursuing what's next
- 00:09:39right so if you could have gone back
- 00:09:42before you did your mark would you have
- 00:09:46just done the mba um no so
- 00:09:49so the and i think and maybe things are
- 00:09:52all serendipity i do
- 00:09:54think like i i think
- 00:09:57luck there is a there is an amount of
- 00:09:59luck and in life
- 00:10:00um but as my husband has said multiple
- 00:10:03times to me i think
- 00:10:04i think like some of the things that we
- 00:10:07find comes out of luck
- 00:10:09it also happens out of good intention
- 00:10:11and
- 00:10:12planning ultimately um
- 00:10:15so the reason why i went and got my mark
- 00:10:18after i finished my brx it was a
- 00:10:20post-professional
- 00:10:21type of three-month
- 00:10:24degree was because my beard was so
- 00:10:28technical and i really wanted to
- 00:10:32explore the theoretical side of
- 00:10:33architecture i felt like there was
- 00:10:35a lot of things going on in computer
- 00:10:36graphics um or just computer modeling
- 00:10:39that we weren't touching
- 00:10:40when i in my undergrad and i didn't know
- 00:10:43enough i mean how
- 00:10:44how many people know in high school that
- 00:10:48architecture programs are so different
- 00:10:51um
- 00:10:53i mean i i thought i knew a lot of this
- 00:10:55a senior but i
- 00:10:56like i knew enough to go and look for an
- 00:10:58accredited program but i didn't realize
- 00:11:00like
- 00:11:01the huge swings in the differences in
- 00:11:03curriculum that those accredited
- 00:11:05programs could really provide you
- 00:11:07um so i i did it because i wanted a
- 00:11:10theater
- 00:11:10like i just i felt like i was missing an
- 00:11:13important part
- 00:11:14of my education um and i wouldn't take
- 00:11:18that back
- 00:11:18because i actually did this incredible
- 00:11:21um
- 00:11:21scenario planning studio with natalia
- 00:11:24devries
- 00:11:24from mbr um nbr plus tv here tv
- 00:11:28or nvrdb yes sorry within the mr
- 00:11:32plus d program but natalie of nbr vd
- 00:11:35um she she and michael speaks led this
- 00:11:38scenario planning
- 00:11:40studio which at a core was a lot of
- 00:11:44how do you gather data to make decisions
- 00:11:47on
- 00:11:47a broader scale you know what type of
- 00:11:49community
- 00:11:50engagement do you need and it was
- 00:11:53strategic planning so ultimately
- 00:11:55if i like look at the arc of everything
- 00:11:58i've done um like that was my favorite
- 00:12:01studio throughout all
- 00:12:03of my education um if i had realized
- 00:12:06that sooner
- 00:12:07i think i may have been able to actually
- 00:12:09get to my career path
- 00:12:11sooner um but it took me a while for me
- 00:12:13to realize like that's the type of thing
- 00:12:15that i actually want to be doing
- 00:12:17so i mean hindsight no
- 00:12:21i would have like if i had gone and done
- 00:12:23my mba i would have missed out on that
- 00:12:26very right it your path is kind of
- 00:12:29interesting because i think a lot of
- 00:12:30people find that
- 00:12:31their br gets a little bit too
- 00:12:33theoretical and it's not
- 00:12:35technical enough so
- 00:12:38yeah it's interesting that you went to
- 00:12:40you went back to your mr
- 00:12:42to get more of that theoretical
- 00:12:43experience yeah
- 00:12:45i also had this romantic notion of
- 00:12:46wanting to be a teacher
- 00:12:48that has never come to fruition so well
- 00:12:50you're kind of a teacher now
- 00:12:52because you're i guess doing all these
- 00:12:54interviews
- 00:12:55yeah thank you for that
- 00:12:58[Music]
- 00:13:00um so okay yeah that's interesting
- 00:13:04so you because i think the
- 00:13:07notion is that the
- 00:13:10academics have to be more grounded in
- 00:13:13reality the
- 00:13:14um like architectural schooling has to
- 00:13:16be more grounded in reality
- 00:13:18um and be more relevant and it's
- 00:13:21the academics i have to catch up with
- 00:13:23the industry not
- 00:13:24the other way around but yes i think i
- 00:13:27mean that's an ongoing argument
- 00:13:29right between academics and
- 00:13:30practitioners i think
- 00:13:32i think i mean for me the theoretical
- 00:13:35side is more important because that's
- 00:13:37where you learn
- 00:13:39approaches to problem solving and that's
- 00:13:41an implementation and execution and
- 00:13:44and that's a little bit different than
- 00:13:46um
- 00:13:47i i i don't know so i um maybe we'll get
- 00:13:51around to this
- 00:13:52but the way we approach traditional
- 00:13:53practice um
- 00:13:55is is kind of failing i think
- 00:13:58our profession a little bit like it's um
- 00:14:01the business model is failing so i would
- 00:14:03hate to see education
- 00:14:06focus on purely creating people that can
- 00:14:09create construction documents when
- 00:14:12that's kind of the lowest denominator of
- 00:14:14our value that we provide as architects
- 00:14:16like i would much rather see education
- 00:14:18producing
- 00:14:19um interesting and unique problem
- 00:14:21solvers and systemic thinkers because i
- 00:14:23think that's where our value really is
- 00:14:26right right and that's the work that
- 00:14:28you're doing with
- 00:14:29practice of architecture yeah
- 00:14:32a little bit about that yeah of course
- 00:14:35uh
- 00:14:36so i i mean i i've been very i've been
- 00:14:39come very public um about the need for
- 00:14:43what i see traditional practice to
- 00:14:44evolve i actually really enjoyed my time
- 00:14:47at mk think because it provided a
- 00:14:49unique platform as a strategic
- 00:14:53thinker and as a leader one of the
- 00:14:55leaders of the strategy group
- 00:14:57um at a what i would consider a small to
- 00:15:00medium-sized firm so
- 00:15:02a lot of people when they think about
- 00:15:04strategy
- 00:15:05right they think like oh it's the
- 00:15:06gentlers and the hk's and the perkins
- 00:15:08and wills who can only
- 00:15:10afford kind of the overhead to pay for
- 00:15:12strategists and researchers
- 00:15:14mk-pink was this medium-sized firm that
- 00:15:17really made strategy its core competency
- 00:15:20um and the revenue it brought in was on
- 00:15:24par
- 00:15:24if not above i i feel what the
- 00:15:26architects brought in
- 00:15:28partly because we could even just charge
- 00:15:29more from an hourly rate perspective
- 00:15:32um so it's a good model of how we can
- 00:15:36evolve traditional practice
- 00:15:38even at a smaller scale and
- 00:15:41and expand our services and raise our
- 00:15:44value and have more touch points with
- 00:15:45our clients
- 00:15:46and i think it's a model that more
- 00:15:49architecture firms need to
- 00:15:50follow to remain relevant and to to be
- 00:15:54i i hear a lot of architects talk about
- 00:15:56how you know they want to be
- 00:15:58you know the first person that a client
- 00:16:01picks like picks up the phone with when
- 00:16:03when they need to discuss something
- 00:16:05about business or intricacies or
- 00:16:08they want to be that go-to knowledge
- 00:16:09asset uh
- 00:16:11and we we swim in such a narrow lane
- 00:16:15that it's hard for clients to fully
- 00:16:17understand
- 00:16:18um that we have other capabilities until
- 00:16:21we start actively participating in other
- 00:16:23areas
- 00:16:25right trying to get the architect more
- 00:16:27into the phase
- 00:16:28zero right right so i guess a long story
- 00:16:31short now i'll get off my soapbox
- 00:16:33was that practice of architecture was
- 00:16:34kind of founded to help
- 00:16:37architects think more about the other
- 00:16:39services that they can be providing
- 00:16:41to really bring in examples from other
- 00:16:44industries about how we can
- 00:16:46even change our approaches to business
- 00:16:50development
- 00:16:51marketing what are some of the examples
- 00:16:56um okay so and i don't know hopefully
- 00:16:59this is not a replay
- 00:17:00of of a previous um
- 00:17:04of a previous comment i made in another
- 00:17:07interview but
- 00:17:08um a good example would be for instance
- 00:17:11i've seen a lot more architects
- 00:17:14advertising on instagram right now
- 00:17:17and when you click through a lot of them
- 00:17:19i actually reached out every time this
- 00:17:20happened i reached out to them directly
- 00:17:22when you they click through a lot of
- 00:17:24them you just land on their website
- 00:17:27um which is great i mean i guess you're
- 00:17:29you're
- 00:17:30engaging your your numbers on your
- 00:17:32website
- 00:17:34going up but you're not getting paid um
- 00:17:36on the amount of clicks that you get on
- 00:17:37your website
- 00:17:38right so anytime that you do not put a
- 00:17:41contact form
- 00:17:43um in front of that click or or just
- 00:17:46after that click
- 00:17:47it's like an opportunity it's a it's a
- 00:17:48lost lead right like that was a person
- 00:17:50who
- 00:17:51you got interested in but you didn't do
- 00:17:53anything to capture
- 00:17:54their information um so even simple
- 00:17:58things like that where if you click on
- 00:18:00every single arc like
- 00:18:01other instagram ad i'm sure you get it
- 00:18:04you know
- 00:18:04here's five quick tips to download even
- 00:18:07your
- 00:18:07name and email address so it's i mean
- 00:18:11even something as small as that is
- 00:18:12something that i think we can learn from
- 00:18:15right yeah i think the whole um
- 00:18:18marketing through online is
- 00:18:20fairly new to a lot of firms and they
- 00:18:23still have this notion that
- 00:18:24it's word of mouth or which is a really
- 00:18:28big part of how you get clients but
- 00:18:30word of mouth or reference and they
- 00:18:32don't really take the time to
- 00:18:35advertise or learn how to advertise in
- 00:18:38these
- 00:18:39different different media streams
- 00:18:43yeah and then there's simple things that
- 00:18:45um
- 00:18:47so the architecture from that worked for
- 00:18:49for a long time we were still doing time
- 00:18:50cards in excel
- 00:18:52like there's just simple things that you
- 00:18:53can automate so it's just not as tedious
- 00:18:56of a process
- 00:18:56and then you can use that time um on
- 00:18:59other things
- 00:19:00uh to to build your business so
- 00:19:03so those are those are like the more
- 00:19:04simple things the more interest the
- 00:19:06harder things
- 00:19:07is just you know how do you look at your
- 00:19:09addition like your current talent pool
- 00:19:11and your current clients and identify
- 00:19:15um potential services that you could be
- 00:19:18selling
- 00:19:18above and beyond what you're doing right
- 00:19:20now
- 00:19:22so one of the things that you were
- 00:19:26selling at
- 00:19:27mmk mtk i think
- 00:19:30mk think was
- 00:19:33strategizing on how you can use the
- 00:19:36spaces rather than just doing the
- 00:19:38construction
- 00:19:40it was it was um and we did we did get
- 00:19:43into operations and processes in some
- 00:19:45instances but
- 00:19:46um it was i would say with strategic
- 00:19:48consulting and that sometimes you even
- 00:19:50go
- 00:19:51to the large consulting firms for um but
- 00:19:54it's around the health environment
- 00:19:56so like one project that i wasn't
- 00:19:59directly
- 00:20:01um directly put on but
- 00:20:04it's one of the more interesting ones to
- 00:20:06tell is
- 00:20:08that we were working with the san
- 00:20:10francisco unified school district
- 00:20:12so a lot of students for instance rely
- 00:20:14on
- 00:20:16school for their their food
- 00:20:19so they were looking at you know how
- 00:20:22what
- 00:20:22what is the cost on the district
- 00:20:25versus the gain to the the children
- 00:20:29um to to one provide an additional meal
- 00:20:33so can they do breakfast and lunch
- 00:20:35and then how do they
- 00:20:38create what are the operational
- 00:20:40processes based on
- 00:20:42their current facilities to provide
- 00:20:45like a good health healthy
- 00:20:48alternative meals so we
- 00:20:51so the group went in and they took
- 00:20:53account of every single piece of kitchen
- 00:20:55equipment
- 00:20:56and every school that had a kitchen
- 00:20:59and then they set up like how do you
- 00:21:01where do we need to centralize the
- 00:21:03kitchen for san francisco unified
- 00:21:05district
- 00:21:06and based on the equipment available at
- 00:21:09the other kitchens how far do we need to
- 00:21:11par-cook the food
- 00:21:12before we deliver it on-site and how do
- 00:21:15we optimize
- 00:21:16kind of our delivery stream to save the
- 00:21:19most money
- 00:21:19as we can so we can serve the most
- 00:21:21students so that
- 00:21:23that was i mean it's space related but
- 00:21:25it also has like a social justice
- 00:21:28overlay to it and it was you know
- 00:21:29serving the community so
- 00:21:32so that was the type of strategic work
- 00:21:34that um we were involved in
- 00:21:37so was that completely separated from
- 00:21:39the construction work or did that
- 00:21:41eventually funnel in the or was that a
- 00:21:44method of funneling in the
- 00:21:45architectural work um so it
- 00:21:50i would say so the strategic work we
- 00:21:52consider we considered
- 00:21:53strategy a strategic studio so sometimes
- 00:21:57it led to construction work
- 00:21:58sometimes it didn't but at any rate it
- 00:22:02always
- 00:22:03provided us to not provide us provided
- 00:22:05us an opportunity to expand
- 00:22:08the different clients that we were
- 00:22:09working with um
- 00:22:12we we didn't end up on the
- 00:22:14implementation side of that one
- 00:22:16there was um i'm i'm still working on
- 00:22:20and off i have
- 00:22:21a long-standing uh partnership with uc
- 00:22:24hastings that i
- 00:22:25established when i was at mk think and
- 00:22:28i am still doing work for them this
- 00:22:31you know with them to this day but
- 00:22:33essentially we did
- 00:22:35the long-range strategic plan for their
- 00:22:38campus
- 00:22:39and the cfo is keeping me on to make
- 00:22:41sure that we implement
- 00:22:42successfully against that long-range
- 00:22:44strategic plan um
- 00:22:46so i've been on the client side in that
- 00:22:49case and i'm selecting the architects to
- 00:22:51build
- 00:22:52or are part of the architect selection
- 00:22:54um and helping
- 00:22:55the university do programming and
- 00:22:57planning um
- 00:22:58and now we're supporting them on wave
- 00:23:00binding and signage
- 00:23:02uh because they have a very they have a
- 00:23:05distributed urban campus they have
- 00:23:07it's an urban campus with multiple
- 00:23:08different buildings um
- 00:23:11so yeah we're finding lots of different
- 00:23:12ways to support them strategically that
- 00:23:14doesn't necessarily always end up with a
- 00:23:16building
- 00:23:17and there there will always be um the
- 00:23:20architects that one
- 00:23:21don't consider me an architect anymore
- 00:23:24which
- 00:23:25took me which is i feel hurtful but i'll
- 00:23:28get over it
- 00:23:29but but too um because i i
- 00:23:32very much consider what i'm doing like
- 00:23:34still architecturally related i
- 00:23:36i draw from my architectural background
- 00:23:37a lot but two i think
- 00:23:39you know there will be those individuals
- 00:23:41that like if i'm not building
- 00:23:42doing a building i'm not an architect um
- 00:23:45and to that i i just have to say
- 00:23:47um you know again these opportunities
- 00:23:50provide additional value to your clients
- 00:23:53they will be calling you
- 00:23:55when they don't need a building um which
- 00:23:57means that they will absolutely be
- 00:23:58calling you when they do need a building
- 00:24:00but
- 00:24:00if you know if we're such a relationship
- 00:24:03based
- 00:24:05um service provider then these
- 00:24:07opportunities are really expanding those
- 00:24:08relationships
- 00:24:10yeah and i think even at a smaller scale
- 00:24:13i was just speaking to
- 00:24:14um an architect who oh that's the video
- 00:24:18that i posted in the women in
- 00:24:19architecture group it was the architect
- 00:24:21who works with indigenous communities
- 00:24:23and um he's a sole proprietor but even
- 00:24:26he's very involved in like the initial
- 00:24:29stages of the project where they're
- 00:24:30trying to get funding
- 00:24:32where they're trying to strategize on
- 00:24:34how they can
- 00:24:35build up their like employment
- 00:24:40employment rates in the community and
- 00:24:43doesn't necessarily translate into an
- 00:24:45architectural project but
- 00:24:47like it's a part of his services he
- 00:24:49doesn't really market it that way but
- 00:24:51you know it is and um it sometimes leads
- 00:24:55to architectural work sometimes
- 00:24:57it doesn't but yeah it seems like um
- 00:25:01being able to be a part of that
- 00:25:05decision making process right in the
- 00:25:08beginning
- 00:25:08is where architects should all
- 00:25:12want to go right i mean if you're in
- 00:25:15that position then you're usually
- 00:25:17actually the one setting the like
- 00:25:19helping set the budget
- 00:25:20you know for a capital campaign um
- 00:25:23and and quite frankly i actually like
- 00:25:25being on
- 00:25:27on the client side and being the one
- 00:25:29who's hiring the architects
- 00:25:30because then i can i can take that and i
- 00:25:32can say like okay um
- 00:25:34i i end up reaching out to a lot of
- 00:25:36architects who actually don't
- 00:25:37make it who aren't selected to build our
- 00:25:39products and slack and just say
- 00:25:42um you know the next interview you go in
- 00:25:45to here's kind of five to seven tips
- 00:25:48that you might want to consider
- 00:25:49and that's that's different to your
- 00:25:52approach to really make you stand out
- 00:25:54um can you can you talk about those tips
- 00:25:58um okay well get super high level i i
- 00:26:01mean i think this is the most obvious
- 00:26:02one
- 00:26:03because i've been i've been the
- 00:26:04diversity hire that people drag along
- 00:26:08to interview right but if you are going
- 00:26:10to so blatantly do that make sure that
- 00:26:12those individuals actually have a voice
- 00:26:14in the presentation
- 00:26:16and they're not just like a pretty face
- 00:26:18that's sitting and smiling
- 00:26:19throughout the presentation so that
- 00:26:22would be like a really
- 00:26:23really easy one but sometimes like a
- 00:26:26principle is not going to change
- 00:26:28that internally like i feel like
- 00:26:32um the individual got that got dragged
- 00:26:34along
- 00:26:35could probably not say that to the
- 00:26:37principal of the firm
- 00:26:38which is with as much impact as i could
- 00:26:41as a potential client
- 00:26:42saying you you didn't show
- 00:26:45us the value of your team because you
- 00:26:47didn't let your entire team speak
- 00:26:49um so i feel like as
- 00:26:52as a as somebody who's hiring the
- 00:26:54architects i almost um
- 00:26:56i'm giving the principal the business
- 00:26:58case right for
- 00:26:59changing what they're doing versus the
- 00:27:02internal person struggling saying i
- 00:27:03really wish i could have a voice
- 00:27:05you know during these interviews
- 00:27:08right um do you have any
- 00:27:11tips for architecture students who are
- 00:27:14in school right now because i feel like
- 00:27:16the industry is
- 00:27:17changing so much especially with kovid
- 00:27:20that
- 00:27:21i think a lot of people are going to
- 00:27:23have to be equipped with skills
- 00:27:25outside of architecture but they're
- 00:27:27skills that are not really
- 00:27:29defined so yeah
- 00:27:33how would you um yeah i mean i
- 00:27:37it's it's so tears
- 00:27:40um i would
- 00:27:45i would um as a student i think
- 00:27:50um people always want to talk to
- 00:27:53students
- 00:27:53and help guide careers right or
- 00:27:56help students figure out the next path
- 00:27:59this was even true
- 00:28:00in my late 20s when i went back to
- 00:28:02school and i would just say like hi and
- 00:28:04you know i'd reach out to people and say
- 00:28:05hi i'm an mba student i would really
- 00:28:07like to learn more about your path
- 00:28:09like would you like do you mind
- 00:28:11connecting
- 00:28:12like i would say a little bit more what
- 00:28:15i'm
- 00:28:16more specifically interested in learning
- 00:28:17about somebody's path and then
- 00:28:19ask for like a 10 to 15 minute phone
- 00:28:21call which usually
- 00:28:23in the best case scenario always turned
- 00:28:25into a half hour or hour long phone call
- 00:28:27um but i think if you're if you're kind
- 00:28:31of struggling with how do i
- 00:28:32use these skills i'm getting in
- 00:28:34architecture school and where do i want
- 00:28:35to end up
- 00:28:36and if it's not necessarily in
- 00:28:37traditional practice like now is your
- 00:28:39opportunity
- 00:28:40to kind of create an identity on a
- 00:28:43network like linkedin and kind of just
- 00:28:45cold email people that you are
- 00:28:48interested
- 00:28:48in learning a bit more about how they
- 00:28:52got there
- 00:28:53there's so many new jobs and fields that
- 00:28:57come
- 00:28:57that have opened up i think in the like
- 00:28:59in the
- 00:29:00you know in the last 10 years that
- 00:29:04you will find that a lot of people that
- 00:29:06are in these positions i'm like one
- 00:29:08might be
- 00:29:08um like data data visualization like
- 00:29:12even if you think about
- 00:29:13if you think about um kind of how
- 00:29:17like even the elections right um
- 00:29:20how much more data you see on television
- 00:29:23screens right now about like where
- 00:29:25elections are headed how the vote's
- 00:29:26going
- 00:29:27um versus how people just usually talked
- 00:29:30to that data before so there's
- 00:29:32there's been this whole new data vis
- 00:29:35career that's taken off um
- 00:29:39and and that's happened i think you know
- 00:29:42with
- 00:29:43like that's really accelerated within
- 00:29:44the last five years so people
- 00:29:46that are in that field right now are
- 00:29:49relatively new to the field themselves
- 00:29:51so like here's a great opportunity to
- 00:29:53see like how did you identify that
- 00:29:55career path
- 00:29:56you know what actually led you there
- 00:29:58what steps did you need to take and just
- 00:30:00just be be the inquisitive student that
- 00:30:02you already are
- 00:30:03and and ask those questions and i think
- 00:30:05by asking a lot of questions
- 00:30:07you'll get to answers about your own
- 00:30:09career sooner
- 00:30:12i think you also mentioned in the
- 00:30:15other interview with joanne that it's
- 00:30:18like if you are looking for a career
- 00:30:21pivot it's really
- 00:30:22hard to get a job just by like cold
- 00:30:24resume
- 00:30:25it's usually through networking
- 00:30:28and yeah i mean i think it's always
- 00:30:31especially within
- 00:30:32the tech world i i mean i was extremely
- 00:30:34lucky but i think it's
- 00:30:36it's always easier to get a referral
- 00:30:39with from from somebody within the
- 00:30:41company than it is to do
- 00:30:43like the cold email so um
- 00:30:46so if you have these informational
- 00:30:48interviews and then something comes up
- 00:30:51like in their company and you haven't
- 00:30:53even reached out to a person for like
- 00:30:55six months
- 00:30:55i think it's it's easy enough to say you
- 00:30:57know i really enjoyed our conversation
- 00:30:59it was aspirational i saw this interview
- 00:31:01i saw this opening that i
- 00:31:03saw pop up on your career site and i
- 00:31:06just wanted to let you know that i was
- 00:31:07as applying if you could put in a good
- 00:31:09word for me that would be wonderful
- 00:31:10and um i'd like to find out more
- 00:31:13about it could you redirect me to the
- 00:31:15hiring manager or
- 00:31:16would you be willing to have a like have
- 00:31:18a conversation
- 00:31:20um it just and this is true of
- 00:31:22architecture firms too
- 00:31:24right um so even if you don't want to
- 00:31:26leave traditional practice which
- 00:31:28there are definitely people who want to
- 00:31:30stay stay in it and
- 00:31:31and are like i was never a good designer
- 00:31:34there's definitely good designers who i
- 00:31:35think
- 00:31:36need to stay in architecture um
- 00:31:39but um even then like you could do these
- 00:31:42same informational interviews
- 00:31:43with with architecture firms and you'll
- 00:31:45actually find that principles are much
- 00:31:47more accessible
- 00:31:49again when you're coming from the point
- 00:31:50of like i'm a student i've seen your
- 00:31:52work on this i see
- 00:31:54your talk your article can i get 10 to
- 00:31:5615 minutes of your time
- 00:31:57um so just think about like what an
- 00:32:00impact that leaves then
- 00:32:01when later you are going through the
- 00:32:03recruiting team and you you can say hey
- 00:32:05i talked to your principal
- 00:32:06earlier about your firm and this is what
- 00:32:08i'm really excited about
- 00:32:10so yeah right
- 00:32:13right and what about
- 00:32:17um so i think a lot of people
- 00:32:20you also talked about cleaning up your
- 00:32:23google presence
- 00:32:24making sure that everything that's on
- 00:32:26there is what you want people to see
- 00:32:29yeah i mean and it's i'm not saying that
- 00:32:32you shouldn't have
- 00:32:34a political voice even in this climate
- 00:32:37but i just think
- 00:32:38that you should be aware of everybody
- 00:32:41reading that and that
- 00:32:42um uh i mean even the things that we're
- 00:32:45doing at the aia
- 00:32:47and even our statement are our stronger
- 00:32:49statement that came out regarding black
- 00:32:51lives matter
- 00:32:52and um it
- 00:32:56it's device or you know it's it's
- 00:32:58dividing
- 00:32:59right we we did not bring the entire
- 00:33:02membership along with that statement so
- 00:33:05so just know that um
- 00:33:09just be aware that what you say may turn
- 00:33:12some people off um and if you're okay
- 00:33:15with that then
- 00:33:16by all means like use your voice
- 00:33:20um but but if you're if you're not okay
- 00:33:23with
- 00:33:24with being judged on what you're saying
- 00:33:26out in public then just don't say it out
- 00:33:28in public
- 00:33:28right right what about if you have a
- 00:33:33um i think a lot of people have like a
- 00:33:35side
- 00:33:36side income side hustle and
- 00:33:40let's say their web page leads straight
- 00:33:42to that
- 00:33:43which might not correlate
- 00:33:46exactly with like where they want to go
- 00:33:48with their careers
- 00:33:50right um how
- 00:33:53what do you think about that interesting
- 00:33:56one i mean i've
- 00:33:58i've always been very public about my
- 00:33:59side hustles
- 00:34:02um i've i've been i wrote i started
- 00:34:04writing back in
- 00:34:06oh i don't know 2004 before writing for
- 00:34:09a blog was actually a thing
- 00:34:11um
- 00:34:15and i but i've always i don't know i've
- 00:34:16always been very clear but i've also
- 00:34:18been very clear because i
- 00:34:20want whomever i work with to
- 00:34:24to appreciate the fact that i'm engaged
- 00:34:27there
- 00:34:28um but again like i i
- 00:34:31i think i think you just have to realize
- 00:34:33the people you are attracting and the
- 00:34:35people
- 00:34:36you might be um discouraging with
- 00:34:38whatever you put out there
- 00:34:40um and know that you know and
- 00:34:43there's definitely firms that are going
- 00:34:44to be like you can't have a side hustle
- 00:34:47so the truth of it is one i would not
- 00:34:50want to work for those
- 00:34:51firms but like two like they would very
- 00:34:53quickly find out
- 00:34:54um and they would probably just not
- 00:34:56pursue me either so i
- 00:34:58i i mean i guess i would just say like
- 00:35:01be honest and true to who you are and
- 00:35:03realize what you're putting out there
- 00:35:04and
- 00:35:05and who that attracts and who that
- 00:35:07scares away so
- 00:35:09and eventually you'll find the right
- 00:35:11match that appreciates
- 00:35:13you for who you are yeah hopefully i
- 00:35:15mean i think i think there is the
- 00:35:17ability for all of us to craft
- 00:35:18to craft that i also think like um
- 00:35:23i definitely had those jobs where it was
- 00:35:25just just a job and i needed an income
- 00:35:28um and that's okay like i learned from
- 00:35:30those two so
- 00:35:32um you know sometimes you end up there
- 00:35:36but it's any any job you're in is
- 00:35:39is only temporary until you're ready
- 00:35:40until you find the next thing
- 00:35:43so manage your expectations around that
- 00:35:45as well
- 00:35:47well can you talk about that a little
- 00:35:49bit like your transition phase
- 00:35:51i think you wrote up um an article
- 00:35:55um pretty recently about um william
- 00:35:58bridges this book
- 00:35:59dropship oh yeah that was that was one
- 00:36:01of our so that was one of our
- 00:36:03collaborators on um practice of
- 00:36:05architecture so i didn't write that
- 00:36:06laura weiss actually wrote that
- 00:36:08right okay um well did you did you read
- 00:36:12it
- 00:36:12did you read it oh i read the article i
- 00:36:14haven't actually haven't read
- 00:36:16the book i mean the interesting thing
- 00:36:18about laura though is
- 00:36:19um she she is a generation so i'm
- 00:36:23generation x i would say she's a
- 00:36:25generation older
- 00:36:27than me and she made her last career
- 00:36:30pivot
- 00:36:30just within the last year so if
- 00:36:34i guess the biggest lesson there is that
- 00:36:36like it's you're never
- 00:36:37it's never too late in your right right
- 00:36:41even if you have given all of this time
- 00:36:45to you know a profession we've i've been
- 00:36:49talking to a lot of people about
- 00:36:52one thing that architects and
- 00:36:53particularly they struggle with is like
- 00:36:55they're
- 00:36:56we we see our career especially if you
- 00:36:58go into traditional practice it's this
- 00:37:00very linear path right
- 00:37:02like everyone's focused on you should
- 00:37:03get your license then once you get your
- 00:37:04license you must be on this some
- 00:37:07somewhere on the partner principal
- 00:37:09partner check
- 00:37:10um i think that's kind of detrimental
- 00:37:14to to career building over the long term
- 00:37:17because because then we forget like
- 00:37:19there's other opportunities and then we
- 00:37:22we we get in our own way because we're
- 00:37:24like we've committed
- 00:37:25so much time to this path like like how
- 00:37:29could i ever step off of it
- 00:37:31yeah you have to design your careers
- 00:37:35as much as you you know design the
- 00:37:37project absolutely
- 00:37:41um sorry um so
- 00:37:45just to go back to that transition face
- 00:37:48a little bit so
- 00:37:48in that article she um
- 00:37:52they're talking about the
- 00:37:56the crosswalk right and
- 00:37:59as soon as you leave the sidewalk people
- 00:38:01just want to get to the other side
- 00:38:03but i think what uh bridges was saying
- 00:38:06is that like you
- 00:38:08want to try to stay and that yeah that
- 00:38:10was a great metaphor
- 00:38:11so can you talk a little bit about like
- 00:38:14what that
- 00:38:15phase of your life was like that
- 00:38:17experience yeah i mean
- 00:38:19so this happened recently actually i um
- 00:38:22and i've been half public about it um
- 00:38:25and and you know what my people at
- 00:38:27slacknow so i recently joined a coaching
- 00:38:30program
- 00:38:31it is a five-figure
- 00:38:34investment on my part to grow
- 00:38:37the practice of architecture so for me
- 00:38:42i had to sit with this decision for two
- 00:38:44to three weeks um to really kind of
- 00:38:46decide like is that something i
- 00:38:48i want to take um you know and
- 00:38:52and i was like i was questioning my own
- 00:38:55ability to ever make that
- 00:38:56like make back that money that i'm now
- 00:38:58asking my family
- 00:39:00to give up um so
- 00:39:03so so yeah like that was like the
- 00:39:05stepping off point right
- 00:39:06but i decided to go for it and i'm all
- 00:39:09in it
- 00:39:10and i um we have a forthcoming
- 00:39:13partnership announcement that we're
- 00:39:16announcing later today
- 00:39:17that like like like that so the class
- 00:39:21the business coaching class already put
- 00:39:22me in this new mindset
- 00:39:24um that's going to accelerate my ability
- 00:39:27to make
- 00:39:28meaningful impact in the practice of
- 00:39:29architecture um if i had just like tried
- 00:39:31to do it on my own
- 00:39:33um but but yeah it was a it was a
- 00:39:36it was not a decision that i took
- 00:39:38lightly and it was one that involved
- 00:39:41my husband and our finances and where we
- 00:39:43were and what we would have to
- 00:39:45move around or postpone because of this
- 00:39:49decision
- 00:39:50so yeah i imagine decisions like that
- 00:39:53get harder and harder
- 00:39:54as you get
- 00:39:58older in your life yeah make all the
- 00:40:01tough decisions now when you're younger
- 00:40:03i'm just kidding no i mean i am grateful
- 00:40:05for having such a supportive
- 00:40:07husband um but but yeah like that
- 00:40:11like the stepping off part is always the
- 00:40:13hardest i think
- 00:40:14um yeah but also like after i got over
- 00:40:18the hump and we committed i'm
- 00:40:19i'm fully committed to making that money
- 00:40:23back for my family
- 00:40:25that's definitely a motivator
- 00:40:29your husband's just like watching over
- 00:40:31you and you do the work
- 00:40:33i know before he was like why are you
- 00:40:34staying up till 2 a.m like doing this
- 00:40:36practice of architecture that isn't
- 00:40:37making
- 00:40:38up like really any money and now he's
- 00:40:41like you better stay up until 2am
- 00:40:45no just he's not like that but it
- 00:40:47definitely was an internal mindset
- 00:40:49like shift like um yeah right right well
- 00:40:52i think
- 00:40:54like you've already found a successful
- 00:40:56career path in tech
- 00:40:58and but you're coming back to
- 00:41:00architecture and
- 00:41:01and trying to help architects find um
- 00:41:04their path and helping them expand their
- 00:41:09vision of what they could do so i like i
- 00:41:11love that
- 00:41:12and i i really appreciate that well i do
- 00:41:15love architects so that's
- 00:41:17that's never been an issue with me it's
- 00:41:18just how we
- 00:41:20how we do business i want more
- 00:41:22architects to be successful
- 00:41:26and you're on the um board at the aia
- 00:41:29as well right i am um i joke that i'm
- 00:41:32often the fly on the wall
- 00:41:34like the the one non non-traditional
- 00:41:36architects
- 00:41:37on on the very small national board um
- 00:41:39i'm actually
- 00:41:40the treasurer right now and um i'm
- 00:41:43you know i'm in trying to refocus us in
- 00:41:46terms of like
- 00:41:47you know how how do we find you know
- 00:41:49whether other partnerships that we can
- 00:41:51create what are other
- 00:41:52mechanisms that we can use to drive
- 00:41:54revenue as a
- 00:41:56as a membership organization that
- 00:41:58doesn't so heavily rely
- 00:42:00on our members paying to be a part of it
- 00:42:02um
- 00:42:03so and especially at times like this
- 00:42:06so so that's i mean that's kind of
- 00:42:10where my my focus is um
- 00:42:13being there in addition to just being an
- 00:42:15active participating member
- 00:42:17so they are they on board with this new
- 00:42:21approach to practice um like um
- 00:42:25i mean no i like no but they don't they
- 00:42:28don't have
- 00:42:29to be right i i was i was voted on by my
- 00:42:33peers
- 00:42:34i also ran unopposed because no one i
- 00:42:37mean honestly no one wants to be a
- 00:42:38treasurer
- 00:42:40um and this is not a fun year to be a
- 00:42:42treasurer
- 00:42:44nor is next year i actually think next
- 00:42:45year is going to be much harder for us
- 00:42:47so nor is next year going to be a fun
- 00:42:48year to be a treasurer
- 00:42:52but i see it as a strategic opportunity
- 00:42:55there are definitely people that respect
- 00:42:58my different point of view whether or
- 00:43:01not they're willing to change their
- 00:43:02practice
- 00:43:04to to follow what i'm saying and to
- 00:43:08is i'm equally respectful of
- 00:43:11what what they need to do um and what
- 00:43:14they think they need to do
- 00:43:15to to continue um but
- 00:43:18but should they ever want to change i
- 00:43:20will be here to help and support them
- 00:43:24why do you think that the role of the
- 00:43:26architect is so
- 00:43:29um entrenched in traditional practice
- 00:43:33i oh there's so much um
- 00:43:38yeah wow that's like a huge like
- 00:43:42we could spend all like an entire
- 00:43:43afternoon i think i'm packing that one
- 00:43:45um i i think it's just
- 00:43:49i mean a lot of it i think has to do
- 00:43:50with this age-old apprenticeship
- 00:43:52model of like how how we
- 00:43:56go through leadership transition in our
- 00:43:58firms or actually how we don't go
- 00:43:59through leadership transition in
- 00:44:01our firms um a lot of it is
- 00:44:06a lot of it i think is just even um
- 00:44:09the culture the studio culture that we
- 00:44:12came out of
- 00:44:13um so on on a podcast actually
- 00:44:16coming up on practice disrupted in
- 00:44:20in a few weeks we talked to two
- 00:44:23past aias so american institute of
- 00:44:26architecture student leaders
- 00:44:28who actually co like codified
- 00:44:31um like kind of a
- 00:44:34uh they could they codified studio
- 00:44:37culture
- 00:44:38or like the rights of the student in
- 00:44:40studio culture
- 00:44:42into the nab the national architecture
- 00:44:44now i'm getting like too deep in this
- 00:44:46the national architecture accreditation
- 00:44:48board um
- 00:44:51like the the requirements to become an
- 00:44:54accredited program
- 00:44:55and it's been interesting it wasn't it's
- 00:44:58an interesting it was an interesting
- 00:44:59conversation to me because i
- 00:45:01what i learned out of that is that my
- 00:45:04experience in studio
- 00:45:05has been very different than the
- 00:45:08experience
- 00:45:10of students coming out of studio today
- 00:45:13like my studio was much and
- 00:45:16and the whole thing that drove studio
- 00:45:18culture was the fact that
- 00:45:19you know a student's life was lost
- 00:45:21staying up
- 00:45:2248 hours you know getting in a car
- 00:45:25accident
- 00:45:26like preparing for finals not to say
- 00:45:30that's not funny anymore but but i mean
- 00:45:32not to say that that
- 00:45:33i mean honestly not to say that that
- 00:45:35isn't happening anymore but i do
- 00:45:37feel be because because our because
- 00:45:40architects
- 00:45:42um architectural schools are still
- 00:45:43referred to as lighthouses on campuses
- 00:45:46but um but there is
- 00:45:49like but the the student the i feel like
- 00:45:52the studio culture that students are
- 00:45:54graduating out of
- 00:45:55right now are is much more collaborative
- 00:45:57and less competitive
- 00:45:59than the studio culture that i graduated
- 00:46:01out of
- 00:46:02and the studio culture that i graduated
- 00:46:04with perpetuates
- 00:46:06this firm culture of we can't share
- 00:46:08anything with our peers
- 00:46:10we can't share anything with even people
- 00:46:13in our firm until they're quote unquote
- 00:46:14ready
- 00:46:15or they've like gone through this rite
- 00:46:17of passage
- 00:46:18um that's really kind of held us in this
- 00:46:21traditional practice model
- 00:46:23uh whereas like you know i see a lot of
- 00:46:26i see a lot of collaboration and a
- 00:46:29bigger entrepreneurial
- 00:46:31spirit coming out of the next generation
- 00:46:34um
- 00:46:35but i also see them struggling because
- 00:46:37they're going into
- 00:46:38these firms with firm leaders that
- 00:46:40graduated
- 00:46:42in my studio culture so if we can get
- 00:46:44through that dynamic
- 00:46:46then hopefully we can come out on the
- 00:46:48other side
- 00:46:49but it's it's just like it's just like a
- 00:46:51weird dynamic happening
- 00:46:53right now that's um and there's just a
- 00:46:55lot of older leadership still in firms
- 00:46:57that's just
- 00:46:58perpetuating um kind of
- 00:47:01what they grew out of yeah that's
- 00:47:05just one of like so many reasons why we
- 00:47:08can't get out of traditional practice
- 00:47:10but yeah and it's changing now too with
- 00:47:13covet
- 00:47:14um everything has moved online yeah
- 00:47:17absolutely
- 00:47:18yeah i don't know what's going to happen
- 00:47:19to that collaborative studio culture
- 00:47:22yeah it'll be interesting to see
- 00:47:24although i do i just talked to a friend
- 00:47:27who they're actually creating a virtual
- 00:47:29space
- 00:47:30um for for students
- 00:47:34not a kid like it's not dissimilar from
- 00:47:36second life for like
- 00:47:39the academic perspective and like studio
- 00:47:43so cool so i there's definitely
- 00:47:46like people out there that are pushing
- 00:47:48kind of
- 00:47:49um even where we're headed from a
- 00:47:51digital practice standpoint
- 00:47:53right i don't know if you've heard of um
- 00:47:55seth godin's
- 00:47:56alt mba i have yeah
- 00:47:59and so their model is like
- 00:48:03everyone who's in the class is
- 00:48:05participating like everyone has their
- 00:48:07webcam turned on
- 00:48:09so that it is really like being in a
- 00:48:12classroom because
- 00:48:13you know it doesn't work if you just
- 00:48:15play a recording
- 00:48:16or just do a one-way zoom call right
- 00:48:19right absolutely um and
- 00:48:22you even see this happening in firms
- 00:48:24more right like we had video
- 00:48:26conferencing
- 00:48:27capabilities so long ago but even even
- 00:48:29in go to meetings and zoom
- 00:48:31like rarely would anybody actually turn
- 00:48:33on their video cameras
- 00:48:34so like you know so the pandemic has
- 00:48:37kind of perpetuated at least
- 00:48:39at least seeing everyone's face like on
- 00:48:42the other end of a video conference
- 00:48:44rather than
- 00:48:45the agenda or just the presentation that
- 00:48:47you're presenting
- 00:48:49and the way that people are learning is
- 00:48:51very different too
- 00:48:52yeah absolutely i think it's going to
- 00:48:54democratize architecture
- 00:48:57hopefully yeah that would be a good
- 00:49:00thing
- 00:49:01yeah yeah and it kind of goes back to
- 00:49:05you talking about your role as a teacher
- 00:49:08right i mean i think like what you're
- 00:49:11doing with the podcast and the videos i
- 00:49:13think that's
- 00:49:14probably like a more effective way of
- 00:49:17teaching
- 00:49:17younger people in some ways than like
- 00:49:19the role of the studio instructor
- 00:49:24that's i i mean i appreciate that view
- 00:49:27so thank you um
- 00:49:30yeah i i mean i've never really looked
- 00:49:32at myself that way maybe
- 00:49:34maybe i should but i i've definitely
- 00:49:36especially now tried to make myself
- 00:49:37available for people that have had
- 00:49:39questions about career switching and
- 00:49:41um and just my own path and and
- 00:49:44and the next steps that they should take
- 00:49:48sorry okay do you have any final tips
- 00:49:51for
- 00:49:52young architects um
- 00:49:55no just just hang in there i get i don't
- 00:49:58know hang in there
- 00:50:00so one of the one of the things that i
- 00:50:02really
- 00:50:03um love about my current employer um
- 00:50:06and by no me no means am i trying to
- 00:50:09commercialize this
- 00:50:10but um what so one of the things
- 00:50:13that so slack orientation for one was
- 00:50:17it's like a it's like a half week long
- 00:50:19event
- 00:50:20um we're also on boarding like 20 new
- 00:50:22people a week
- 00:50:23like like which coming from an
- 00:50:26architectural world like i can't
- 00:50:27imagine a firm on 20 people a week
- 00:50:31um so we have a very intense orientation
- 00:50:34program but one of the things that they
- 00:50:35say
- 00:50:36the first day that resonates that i wish
- 00:50:38more architecture firms would say
- 00:50:41um and if they aren't saying it to you
- 00:50:43um
- 00:50:44i hope it doesn't silence your voice at
- 00:50:46all is that you
- 00:50:47your life experiences makes you a
- 00:50:50contributor from day one
- 00:50:52so speak up um
- 00:50:55have a voice have an opinion um if you
- 00:50:58find yourself at a firm that doesn't
- 00:51:01allow you to do that then maybe you
- 00:51:03haven't landed at the right firm and you
- 00:51:05should
- 00:51:06take that into consideration um
- 00:51:09but uh but there are definitely firms
- 00:51:12out there
- 00:51:12there that are that are willing to give
- 00:51:14you a voice from day one and i think
- 00:51:16that's important
- 00:51:17i'm i learn a lot from
- 00:51:20from the younger people that i talk to
- 00:51:22it's sad to think that i'm on the older
- 00:51:23end
- 00:51:24of things these days but um yeah i i
- 00:51:26learned it a lot and respect
- 00:51:28respect that so i appreciate the
- 00:51:31incoming generation and the voice that
- 00:51:33they bring to the table
- 00:51:35yeah and i think it's also the strength
- 00:51:37of the firms from the older generation
- 00:51:39to
- 00:51:40um be more dynamic and change to
- 00:51:45the way that younger people are doing
- 00:51:46things so what did you think about the
- 00:51:49interview
- 00:51:50i would really love to hear your
- 00:51:51thoughts in the comments
- 00:51:53uh you can find resources and really
- 00:51:56insightful articles
- 00:51:57at www.practiceofarchitecture.com
- 00:52:01and you can also listen to their podcast
- 00:52:04practice disrupted
- 00:52:06where they interview industry leaders
- 00:52:08and
- 00:52:09explore technology and cultural shifts
- 00:52:13getting you to think about how you can
- 00:52:14adjust your career
- 00:52:16and your your practice to some of these
- 00:52:20emerging trends practice of architecture
- 00:52:23also just recently launched a
- 00:52:25career assist program with an
- 00:52:27organization called teal
- 00:52:29where they help people wanting to
- 00:52:32transition into
- 00:52:33new career roles if you enjoy this video
- 00:52:37please leave me a thumbs up and i would
- 00:52:40really love to hear your thoughts
- 00:52:42in the comments below so that's it for
- 00:52:45today
- 00:52:46and i'll see you in the next one
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