00:00:01
his name is Saul levinsky and there are
00:00:05
still many to whom the name is
00:00:06
meaningless but to Millions now he is
00:00:08
looked on as a savior and these are the
00:00:11
so-called have-nots the culturally
00:00:13
deprived the abject poor they love him
00:00:17
and they ask him in to organize their
00:00:19
weakness into a strength and power that
00:00:21
has become a frightening threat to the
00:00:23
establishments
00:00:25
I suppose given a choice I think I would
00:00:28
pick hell
00:00:30
is because that's where all the
00:00:32
have-nots are he is disarmingly mild
00:00:35
when you meet him
00:00:37
but there is an implacable ferocity
00:00:39
about him which is directed at many
00:00:41
forces he considers to be at the root of
00:00:44
human suffering and misery
00:00:46
I'm all four and I think our air force
00:00:48
and our army should after they finish
00:00:50
and Vietnam should come back and bomb
00:00:52
the hell out of Mississippi you know
00:00:55
what would it be seven Mississippi
00:00:56
instead of northern Mississippi so we
00:00:59
can all get freedom and equality down
00:01:01
there too he has called the war on
00:01:03
poverty political pornography
00:01:05
and says Those Who Run the program
00:01:07
represent the greatest feeding trough
00:01:09
that has come along for the welfare
00:01:11
industry in years
00:01:13
there are always repercussions whenever
00:01:16
Saul Alinsky moves into an Afflicted
00:01:18
ghetto
00:01:18
with his industrial areas Foundation
00:01:20
perhaps because it is felt he may get
00:01:23
some results quicker than the
00:01:24
established authorities
00:01:26
whom he ridicules for their Boondocks
00:01:29
he can be scorned full of an entire city
00:01:31
with one scathing comment
00:01:33
the viewer asked me one thing which law
00:01:36
of sansos really needed above anything
00:01:39
else I would say what it needs is a
00:01:42
massive enema he is one of the few men
00:01:44
who appears to be absolutely Fearless
00:01:47
especially when it comes to the constant
00:01:49
threats he receives by telephone and in
00:01:51
the mail death threats
00:01:54
all right I'll probably get knocked off
00:01:56
I
00:01:57
I think with all this notoriety and
00:02:00
all the stuff that goes up that there's
00:02:02
always some kooky crackpot he'll say
00:02:05
you know I'll get National Headlines by
00:02:07
Michael Murphy well you know this then
00:02:10
is an opening frame that we put around
00:02:12
the self-portrait of one of the most
00:02:14
controversial figures in today's gallery
00:02:16
of American radicals
00:02:18
on this kpix report Saul Alinsky will
00:02:22
share with you his searching personal
00:02:24
assessment of himself as he did with us
00:02:27
in this exclusive half hour titled I'd
00:02:29
organize hell
00:02:32
my name is Jack bunzl we'll journey to
00:02:34
Carmel California to meet saulinsky in
00:02:37
just a few moments there is no nice way
00:02:40
of getting things changed
00:02:43
and it's time that I got a good part of
00:02:48
our country began
00:02:51
to wake up and live in the world as it
00:02:53
is
00:02:54
rather than the world is we would like
00:02:56
it to be
00:03:02
Saul Alinsky has become a national
00:03:04
byword synonymous with poverty he is the
00:03:07
severest critic of the so-called
00:03:09
establishment and its handling or
00:03:11
mishandling of enormous sums of money
00:03:13
intended to alleviate the misery of the
00:03:15
poor
00:03:16
olinsky is executive director of the
00:03:18
industrial areas Foundation a business
00:03:21
that will upon invitation from the poor
00:03:23
and from religious groups move into a
00:03:26
ghetto area and literally organize the
00:03:28
poor into a powerful articulate Force
00:03:31
demanding a voice and a hand in the
00:03:33
administration of their own welfare
00:03:36
tonight on kpix reports it is our
00:03:39
privilege to have as guest commentator
00:03:41
John H bunzl whose television series The
00:03:44
American voter won a national award
00:03:46
author of several volumes on American
00:03:48
politics and an associate professor of
00:03:51
political science at San Francisco State
00:03:53
College to comment on the impact Saul
00:03:56
levinsky has already had and may have on
00:03:59
the future I first came across
00:04:02
solilinsky through his book revelry for
00:04:04
Radicals which came out in 1946.
00:04:07
now looms as a controversial Titan
00:04:11
nationally and in recent times notably
00:04:13
in Oakland
00:04:14
his shadow has loomed off
00:04:17
two hundred thousand dollars was raised
00:04:19
by the Presbyterian church with the
00:04:20
intent of inviting olinsky's industrial
00:04:22
areas Foundation to come in to organize
00:04:25
the poor but in our exclusive meeting
00:04:27
with Saul Alinsky some weeks ago
00:04:30
the issue was in doubt
00:04:32
however his comments on it were
00:04:34
characteristically pungent
00:04:37
he lives in the Carmel Highlands in an
00:04:39
area that is in itself
00:04:40
characteristically opposed to his own
00:04:42
activities
00:04:44
we met him at his home
00:04:45
and our first questions concern the then
00:04:48
likelihood that he would make Oakland
00:04:49
the scene of his next organization of
00:04:52
the poor
00:04:53
I have started but
00:04:56
any question about our coming into
00:04:58
Oakland is purely academic
00:05:00
unless there is an across the board
00:05:03
bona fide
00:05:05
invitation from the local people
00:05:07
themselves
00:05:08
uh we're not one of these uh Colonial
00:05:11
powers like your community funds or I
00:05:15
don't know what you call them in San
00:05:17
Francisco Crusades or something we call
00:05:19
them the white feather funds very simple
00:05:23
representatives of the establishment in
00:05:25
their they operate on the basis but they
00:05:29
know what's good for the poor people and
00:05:32
and my job the poor people are going to
00:05:34
get it whether they like it or not even
00:05:36
if it kills them you know
00:05:38
we're gonna Dome God
00:05:40
and uh just like most of these agencies
00:05:44
they're put into these communities
00:05:45
without people being asked whether they
00:05:47
want them or they don't want them
00:05:49
precisely like a colonial power would
00:05:51
operate as far as
00:05:55
moving into a
00:05:58
well A Primitive Country so to so to
00:06:02
speak
00:06:03
no we do not do this we only go in upon
00:06:07
the invitation on the request of the
00:06:09
people
00:06:10
so that no one can ever say to us that
00:06:12
we're Outsiders no one can ever say to
00:06:14
us who asked you to come in here no one
00:06:17
can ever say to us what's your racket
00:06:19
we can say to the people in the
00:06:22
community
00:06:23
we're here because you asked for us to
00:06:25
come in here in Rochester New York out
00:06:27
of a population of 35
00:06:29
000 we received individual petitions
00:06:32
individually signed petitions more than
00:06:35
13
00:06:36
000 people out of 35
00:06:38
000. a new figure the number of children
00:06:42
that make up a total population 35 000
00:06:45
you can almost say that every Negron
00:06:46
Rochester signed the petitions every
00:06:48
Civil Rights group requested are coming
00:06:51
in every Church within the Negro
00:06:53
Community one Buffalo New York was a
00:06:55
budget is about 175 thousand dollars a
00:06:58
budget which has been raised now I'm
00:07:00
going to Buffalo this week
00:07:02
uh the Negro Community the low income
00:07:07
negro Community out of their own pockets
00:07:11
put up more than thirty thousand dollars
00:07:13
left budget
00:07:14
and why because they want this this is
00:07:16
their own
00:07:18
can we go in there we uh
00:07:21
we organize them
00:07:23
so they can have power and by power I
00:07:26
mean exactly the way Webster's on a
00:07:28
bridge describes it as the ability to
00:07:30
act
00:07:30
where they can become citizens
00:07:33
or because because of their power
00:07:37
they can
00:07:40
have a place of the decision-making
00:07:42
table
00:07:43
have something to say about their own
00:07:46
future each other kids
00:07:48
and as a consequence
00:07:53
uh be part of the American family
00:07:56
now this basically is well on the
00:07:59
controversy comes out of
00:08:01
a lot of the heat while it comes out of
00:08:03
a lot of things for one thing I do the
00:08:05
Unforgivable
00:08:07
you can attack The Establishment and get
00:08:09
away with it you know
00:08:12
I make a teed off at you
00:08:15
you can unsult them
00:08:17
and still survive
00:08:20
but I laugh at them and this is one
00:08:22
thing they will not tolerate
00:08:25
I'm going to be an interesting situation
00:08:27
because I'm going to keep on laughing at
00:08:29
him as long as I got breath to laugh on
00:08:32
somewhere in his background Saul Alinsky
00:08:34
developed an attitude toward life that
00:08:36
has permeated almost everything he has
00:08:38
done
00:08:38
what might be called an Outlook of
00:08:40
realism in the sense that he feels it is
00:08:43
better to expect the worst of conditions
00:08:45
if not of people because life usually
00:08:47
works out that way if he is sometimes a
00:08:49
cynic about the present State of Affairs
00:08:51
he is not by nature or commitment of
00:08:53
pessimist
00:08:54
in his comments on the kind of world
00:08:56
people would like to have and the world
00:08:58
that we really have at least as he sees
00:09:00
it one gets the feeling that he believes
00:09:03
he can have some effect on political
00:09:05
trends particularly where any war on
00:09:07
poverty is concerned in the world as it
00:09:10
is people move primarily because of
00:09:12
self-interest
00:09:13
and the world as of as
00:09:16
the real question is never has never
00:09:19
been
00:09:20
the sort of silly one about the
00:09:22
unjustifying the means it's always been
00:09:24
does this particular end justify this
00:09:27
particular means if you understand that
00:09:30
that uh
00:09:32
explains many things around and the
00:09:35
world as it is so
00:09:38
you uh
00:09:40
you have to start from where you are or
00:09:42
not from where you would wish you would
00:09:43
be
00:09:44
and uh this doesn't mean that the fact
00:09:47
that you accept the world as a Bells
00:09:49
then the slightest sense
00:09:52
that it negates or dilutes
00:09:54
their desire
00:09:56
to strive towards the world that you
00:09:59
would like it to be
00:10:00
but if you're going to have any kind of
00:10:02
a chance of achieving the kind of world
00:10:04
you would like it to be
00:10:06
then you have to begin what the world of
00:10:08
service when we're fighting for
00:10:09
low-income groups having their their own
00:10:13
economic opportunities
00:10:15
and having the power which is which is
00:10:18
theirs by right as American citizens
00:10:21
uh
00:10:24
uh this uh this is what is basic in the
00:10:28
Civil Rights Revolution this is basic
00:10:30
with low income rights and frankly all
00:10:32
that we're doing is assuming that the
00:10:34
American Revolution began
00:10:37
in 76 but it still goes out it's going
00:10:40
to go on for a long time and this
00:10:41
country is all divided notorious and
00:10:43
radicals just like it was
00:10:46
and they're still fighting it out on the
00:10:48
same issues
00:10:49
I'm in luck the issue of representation
00:10:52
we may talk about uh the fact that the
00:10:55
poor should have political equality and
00:10:57
that we respect them and so forth but we
00:10:59
don't in fact emotionally we consider
00:11:01
them a bunch of poor slobs
00:11:04
and what do we do we go out and we
00:11:06
scramble The Works up in Vietnam for a
00:11:09
home run a friend of Penthouse South
00:11:10
Vietnam we don't have in Mississippi we
00:11:12
don't have in our District of Columbia
00:11:14
I'm all for it I think our air force and
00:11:17
our army should after they finish in
00:11:19
Vietnam should come back and bomb the
00:11:21
hell out of Mississippi you know
00:11:23
what would it be Southern Mississippi
00:11:25
instead of northern Mississippi so we
00:11:27
can all get freedom and equality down
00:11:29
there too
00:11:31
we were impressed by the fervor of Saul
00:11:33
Alinsky whenever the subject of poverty
00:11:35
deprivation
00:11:36
Justice and Injustice entered his
00:11:38
comments
00:11:40
the history of the world would clearly
00:11:41
have been very different had saulinsky
00:11:44
been in a position of supreme power at
00:11:46
the end of
00:11:47
let us say the Second World War
00:11:49
this becomes clearer from the comments
00:11:52
he has made about others who are also
00:11:54
high on his list of the arch enemies of
00:11:56
humanity
00:11:57
as of jail I have a certain amount of uh
00:12:00
42nd genital social protests in cinema
00:12:04
as my people been pushed around
00:12:07
well you know from the beginning of time
00:12:09
we're getting when uh I suppose when uh
00:12:12
the concept of of Love came on this
00:12:15
Earth way they burned us at the Paris at
00:12:19
the Inquisition and put us in a gas
00:12:21
ovens and uh
00:12:23
stuff out and so on
00:12:26
maybe it's that maybe it was something
00:12:29
uh maybe it was a rejection of my own
00:12:32
father my own father's values were
00:12:34
were strictly on the dollar side and so
00:12:39
maybe I rejected materialism on that
00:12:42
finally for me to be staying with my son
00:12:44
he was standing here you know
00:12:46
I'm sure he's rejected certain things
00:12:48
because of what I represent
00:12:51
uh maybe it's uh
00:12:54
uh maybe it's because I grew up in the
00:12:56
slums and I hated poverty I don't know
00:12:59
I do know
00:13:01
that every time I saw anything
00:13:05
whether it be a people a sharecroppers
00:13:08
or whether it be
00:13:09
uh people on strike or people uh
00:13:13
and uh suffering and they shouldn't be
00:13:18
well I'd get very very angry about it
00:13:23
and when I got angry and I'd do
00:13:27
something
00:13:28
let me let me say this
00:13:31
to me the most immoral the worst kind of
00:13:34
person
00:13:35
made there of of just human rot
00:13:39
as a kind of person
00:13:41
who doesn't do anything
00:13:44
I believe very firmly in the old Edmund
00:13:46
Burke statement that evil only triumphs
00:13:49
when good men do nothing much as I had
00:13:51
to the Nazis and I don't know anybody
00:13:53
who had any more than I did
00:13:55
I wanted everyone from a block Captain
00:13:57
up shop once the war was over
00:14:01
uh even in those conversations with the
00:14:04
editors are Harpers so
00:14:07
I was questioned about my feeling on the
00:14:10
bomb and I pointed out that one of the
00:14:11
feelings I had was some had been dropped
00:14:14
on the wrong place it should have been
00:14:15
dropped in Berlin instead of on
00:14:17
Hiroshima but unfortunately we didn't
00:14:19
have it ready at that time you know
00:14:22
you should have seen my West German mail
00:14:24
on that one if anyone thinks Nazism is
00:14:26
dead
00:14:27
but uh
00:14:29
much as I hated these Nazis
00:14:32
I hated far more of these good people
00:14:34
who would look out their Windows see
00:14:37
these political prisoners being put into
00:14:39
the Bands
00:14:41
public curtains turn to each other
00:14:46
um
00:14:47
point out how horrible and moral and
00:14:50
awful it was but they did nothing
00:14:52
and you can always tell these characters
00:14:54
they go around with the marker cane on
00:14:57
them
00:14:57
you can always recognize it's branded
00:15:00
across their forehead it either reads
00:15:01
reads one of two ways
00:15:04
either
00:15:05
I agree with your objectives but not
00:15:07
with your tactics see that it absolves
00:15:10
them and you ask them well what would
00:15:12
you do
00:15:13
well I would like to think about it
00:15:14
because they haven't gotten the answers
00:15:16
Saul Alinsky has been called a Jewish
00:15:18
atheist which he vigorously denies even
00:15:21
though he admits his religious
00:15:22
convictions are unconventional
00:15:25
there is a certain fatalism in his
00:15:27
almost contemptuous attitude to the
00:15:28
threats that continue to be made on his
00:15:31
life
00:15:32
what he has to say now however is
00:15:35
underscored by his awareness that change
00:15:37
is a law of life
00:15:40
and that the social consequences will be
00:15:42
felt by all of us like it or not
00:15:45
death threats
00:15:47
uh I'll probably get knocked off fine
00:15:50
I think with all this notoriety and
00:15:53
all the stuff that goes up that there's
00:15:55
always some kooky crackpot he'll say
00:15:59
you know I'll get National Headlines by
00:16:01
knock them off but you will you know
00:16:03
I I just don't have the uh the
00:16:07
fortification of a religious faith in
00:16:10
the conventional sense I wish I did have
00:16:12
one you know then you have the answers
00:16:15
however I've long since learned uh not
00:16:19
too long in the last 10 years or so
00:16:21
I've learned to be able to live
00:16:23
comfortably without answers without Dr
00:16:26
dances
00:16:27
because I don't know what whether there
00:16:29
are such things as answers
00:16:31
take the business on a Hereafter maybe
00:16:33
there is maybe there isn't I've never
00:16:35
seen the evidence one way or the other I
00:16:37
don't expect to see it during my
00:16:39
lifetime
00:16:40
but if there is
00:16:42
I suppose given a choice I think I would
00:16:45
pick hell
00:16:47
the reason I'd pick Kel is because
00:16:48
that's where all the have-nots are
00:16:51
you know the currency of the realm ships
00:16:53
over here it's money over there it's
00:16:55
virtue but either way if you haven't got
00:16:57
it you're stuck
00:16:59
and I've spent all my life with the
00:17:01
have-nots and uh
00:17:03
and once I got into hell uh well I'd
00:17:06
start organizing just like I do down
00:17:08
here
00:17:09
and then I'd be in heaven personally you
00:17:12
know because this is the thing that
00:17:14
gives me the greatest happiness in life
00:17:16
and uh look out Heaven here we come
00:17:19
I think I'm sure there are a lot of
00:17:21
grievances that the people down there
00:17:23
have that should be worked out one way
00:17:25
or another
00:17:26
now
00:17:28
I suppose another thing which causes a
00:17:31
lot of uh hate real hate on me is uh it
00:17:36
isn't so much what I say it's the fact
00:17:38
that I say it out loud
00:17:40
these are the things that people know
00:17:43
but uh they just it isn't considered
00:17:46
tactical to talk about it you know
00:17:49
the thought it was like doing a toilet
00:17:51
in public
00:17:52
well
00:17:54
Life's too short to horse around that
00:17:57
way as far as I'm concerned
00:17:59
and uh I think that this
00:18:02
I think it'll be a lot better if a lot
00:18:04
more people did their toilet out in
00:18:05
public
00:18:07
I think oh well for example take San
00:18:09
Francisco if you ask me
00:18:12
well now San Francisco Oakland
00:18:14
well let me let me play it safe let me
00:18:17
make it Los Angeles
00:18:19
if you ask me one thing which Los
00:18:22
Angeles really needed above anything
00:18:24
else I would say what it needs is a
00:18:27
massive enema you know
00:18:30
now you can read into it just what I
00:18:33
want uh what what I'm saying but you
00:18:37
know and there isn't a guy in Los
00:18:39
Angeles who doesn't know that he's gonna
00:18:41
be honest on it
00:18:43
that is a guy who wants a who wants to
00:18:46
see uh
00:18:48
Los Angeles become more than just a
00:18:51
possible pictorial representation for an
00:18:54
essay on Sodom and Gomorrah you know
00:18:56
wherever Saul Alinsky goes and he has
00:18:59
helped organize more than two million
00:19:01
people in 44 communities over the last
00:19:04
30 years
00:19:05
he digs into what he calls a morass of
00:19:08
resignation hopelessness and despair
00:19:11
providing tactical advice and Technical
00:19:13
consultation
00:19:15
he works with the local people in as he
00:19:17
puts it rubbing raw their resentments
00:19:20
and agitating to the point of conflict
00:19:23
but in this personal assessment of
00:19:25
himself olinsky also reflected on other
00:19:28
themes
00:19:30
let me talk about something else for a
00:19:32
moment I think that our country is faced
00:19:35
with and is infected
00:19:37
what the worst
00:19:39
uh
00:19:42
uh subverting infection
00:19:45
that it has ever experienced in its
00:19:47
history
00:19:48
and what I'm referring to is something
00:19:50
called Madison Avenue public relations
00:19:54
middle class
00:19:56
self-righteous
00:19:57
moral hygiene the effects aren't
00:20:01
domestic way of loving it affects our
00:20:04
foreign policy as well it makes us
00:20:07
almost look moronic you know you watch
00:20:09
TV commercials and
00:20:11
you get a picture that the only thing
00:20:12
that the American people in particularly
00:20:15
American women are concerned with is
00:20:17
whether their wash is wider than
00:20:18
somebody else's wash however they smell
00:20:21
pretty in somebody else and
00:20:23
whether uh
00:20:26
well this is what it's become it's
00:20:28
become sort of a deodorized
00:20:31
the sterilized kind of culture and the
00:20:35
whole issue is to avoid controversy
00:20:38
even Johnson comes out with them policy
00:20:41
of consensus you know
00:20:44
no controversy controversy is bad
00:20:47
while consensus regardless of whose
00:20:49
mother comes out of is nothing more than
00:20:51
a huge pile of Madison Avenue manure
00:20:54
when you get right down to
00:20:56
what it is it's when I withdrawal
00:21:00
but go stay from that it's the kind of
00:21:02
withdrawal that says well I can't I
00:21:06
can't figure out the answers here and
00:21:08
it's just too damn bothersome so we'll
00:21:10
let Johnston do it you know and then
00:21:13
just as a consequence gets much more
00:21:15
Authority
00:21:16
and can get away with more things than
00:21:19
than any president in any other
00:21:21
situation except a war period could get
00:21:23
away with because people don't want a
00:21:25
challenge at all it becomes too complex
00:21:27
so you say well well now what are we
00:21:29
really fighting for over there right
00:21:32
uh have they ever had a free election in
00:21:34
South Vietnam
00:21:35
is this a free country do they know what
00:21:38
we're talking about on freedom
00:21:40
uh well uh
00:21:43
well then the answer always is when I
00:21:45
you talk that way in your
00:21:48
you're giving your comfort to Hanoi you
00:21:51
know Islamic comes he can't get into
00:21:53
discussions on the plane
00:21:55
uh you get uh
00:21:58
you get a situation also
00:22:01
where as part of this whole consensus
00:22:03
deal
00:22:05
there's a very uh better vindictiveness
00:22:09
of seeping into the country
00:22:11
or if you oppose somebody here
00:22:13
uh
00:22:17
there there will be sharp retaliations
00:22:19
against you
00:22:21
are almost reminiscent of its own way of
00:22:23
the old Senator McCarty days of
00:22:25
Wisconsin except on lower levels many
00:22:28
ways they would make
00:22:30
all Senator McCarthy same as sort of
00:22:32
honest you know
00:22:34
at least he was open on it
00:22:36
uh
00:22:39
there's a
00:22:41
and see this is a problem that we have
00:22:43
because our culture too
00:22:46
is so suffused with that Protestant
00:22:49
ethic of self-righteousness
00:22:52
and there's nothing worse than in a
00:22:55
combination not only of power but of
00:22:56
self-righteousness
00:22:58
I think this is a point that Fort Brent
00:23:00
was trying to reach a costume and one
00:23:03
thing for the Romans
00:23:05
to try to conquer the world but they
00:23:07
never expect them to love them and they
00:23:08
weren't making any bones about it we won
00:23:10
we're taking over power because we want
00:23:13
the power you know instead of we're
00:23:15
doing it to free you you know
00:23:18
we're doing it for you
00:23:20
whether you like it or not were we going
00:23:22
to the Dominicans how we didn't even
00:23:24
know which side we were on for the first
00:23:26
few days
00:23:27
I think are going to the Dominicans was
00:23:30
exactly on the same par
00:23:33
word for word comma for comma and Iota
00:23:37
for Iota as the Russians going into
00:23:39
Hungary I don't think there was one damn
00:23:42
bit of difference
00:23:48
zolinski has a lot of opponents certain
00:23:50
Church groups support him others attack
00:23:53
him claiming his organization incites
00:23:55
class and racial antagonisms responsible
00:23:58
men accuse him of erecting a power
00:24:00
structured dictatorship based on slum
00:24:03
dwellers
00:24:03
Julian Levy of the University of Chicago
00:24:05
accuses him of emulating the techniques
00:24:08
of Lynch moths
00:24:10
the so-called establishment of Linsky
00:24:12
attacks represents chosen city state and
00:24:15
federal government officials and
00:24:16
agencies including the office of
00:24:18
Economic Opportunity
00:24:20
no assessment of this professional and
00:24:22
self-style radical would be complete
00:24:25
without recognizing the great and
00:24:26
respected forces that oppose everything
00:24:29
olinsky stands for
00:24:31
Saul Alinsky is a symbol and perhaps a
00:24:34
byproduct of our times which are
00:24:37
characterized by forms of revolt against
00:24:39
many established Concepts while this man
00:24:42
is certainly a dramatic protagonist on
00:24:44
the stage of American drama only history
00:24:46
can adequately assess whether or not he
00:24:49
is as significant as he might appear to
00:24:51
Millions
00:24:52
in presenting this glimpse of solovinsky
00:24:54
titled I'd organize hell we have had a
00:24:57
meeting with a man who has already
00:24:58
rocked the boat on at least one of our
00:25:00
Bay Area Community fronts and May figure
00:25:03
prominently in others
00:25:05
kpix reports Saul Alinsky
