00:00:00
the ECB is ready to do whatever it takes
00:00:04
to preserve the Euro whatever it takes
00:00:08
three words credited with saving the
00:00:10
Euro from collapse in
00:00:13
2012 but Mario dragy the man who said
00:00:15
them recently took on an even bigger
00:00:17
task saving
00:00:19
Europe Europe's economic future it may
00:00:22
sound boring but I promise you it isn't
00:00:25
this isn't just about things like
00:00:26
tariffs or GDP or interest rates it's
00:00:29
about some fundament m al things which
00:00:30
many people here in Europe have come to
00:00:32
take for granted Prosperity security and
00:00:37
democracy the recently released draggy
00:00:40
report dedicates almost 400 pages to
00:00:42
what the former ECB Chief calls the
00:00:44
existential challenge facing the EU
00:00:47
economy the central message Europe is
00:00:50
not productive or Innovative enough and
00:00:52
if it doesn't take action now it won't
00:00:53
be able to survive in a world that's
00:00:55
ever more hostile to
00:00:57
it in this episode we speak to the
00:01:00
former Italian Prime Minister enrio Lea
00:01:03
and the Euro group president Pascal donu
00:01:05
two other people tasked with remaking
00:01:07
the EU economy for a world it wasn't
00:01:09
designed for we are in a red alarm
00:01:11
situation we have to move we have to act
00:01:14
I definitely think there's an awareness
00:01:17
amongst voters all over Europe regarding
00:01:20
the degree to which the world is
00:01:21
changing and we ask one of the leading
00:01:23
commentators on the global economy
00:01:25
what's at stake if the EU comes up short
00:01:28
this really is existential for Europe if
00:01:32
it doesn't solve these problems it could
00:01:36
literally
00:01:37
collapse welcome to business
00:01:40
beyond the EU has faced several defining
00:01:43
questions over the last 15 years from
00:01:46
the global financial crisis to the
00:01:48
pandemic to the war on Ukraine and now
00:01:50
the re-election to the US Presidency of
00:01:52
Donald Trump for a second term has
00:01:54
raised yet more existential questions
00:01:56
for
00:01:57
Europe Trump says he will put tariffs on
00:02:00
European exports to the US particularly
00:02:02
on Industrial sectors like car making at
00:02:05
a time when they're
00:02:06
struggling he has also repeatedly warned
00:02:08
EU Nations to increase their defense
00:02:12
spending one of the presidents of a big
00:02:14
country stood up said well sir uh if we
00:02:17
don't pay and we're attacked by Russia
00:02:20
will you protect us I said you didn't
00:02:22
pay you're delinquent he said yes let's
00:02:26
say that happened no I would not protect
00:02:28
you in fact I would encourage them to do
00:02:31
whatever the hell they want you got to
00:02:32
pay you got to pay your bills I think
00:02:35
this is a very profound shift in the
00:02:38
world environment my own view is this is
00:02:42
probably the most profound shift in the
00:02:44
world environment of My Life Time Martin
00:02:47
wolf is a former World Bank Economist
00:02:49
who has been the financial times chief
00:02:51
economic commentator for almost 30 years
00:02:54
he thinks Trump's re-election has
00:02:55
fundamentally changed things for Europe
00:02:57
and everyone else well my own view Alas
00:03:01
and it's
00:03:03
immensely tragic and I use that word
00:03:06
advisedly is that Trump's reelection is
00:03:09
going to prove a historic event possibly
00:03:12
an irreversible one um for first of all
00:03:16
the US itself and the way it operates
00:03:19
the us as a guarantor of security the us
00:03:23
as the country that created preserved
00:03:28
defended the international liberal order
00:03:31
broadly defined that's clearly going to
00:03:34
be radically different and the part of
00:03:37
that is security relations and part of
00:03:40
it is economic relations given what he
00:03:42
has said about tariffs and defense
00:03:44
Trump's Victory is forcing Europe to
00:03:46
confront some hard truths about its own
00:03:48
economic standing particularly in
00:03:50
relation to the US but also in the world
00:03:53
as a
00:03:54
whole using GDP the standard measure of
00:03:57
the value added to an economy through
00:03:58
the production of goods and Services we
00:04:00
can see how the gap between the size of
00:04:02
the US and EU economies has widened
00:04:04
since
00:04:05
2010 total EU GDP now represents less
00:04:09
than 3/4 of the US
00:04:13
total 20 years ago the EU accounted for
00:04:17
a quarter of global GDP just behind the
00:04:20
US and way ahead of China after that
00:04:23
both the US and EU shares declined as
00:04:25
China experienced a dramatic surge over
00:04:28
the last decade the us share has
00:04:30
increased again while the EU has been
00:04:32
steadily
00:04:33
declining but beyond all the individual
00:04:36
crises that the EU has faced it has
00:04:38
known for a while that it has a bigger
00:04:40
problem which it must handle that's why
00:04:42
it has compiled two major reports
00:04:44
recently focusing on two economic areas
00:04:47
one its single market and two its
00:04:50
ability to compete in a world economy
00:04:52
that's increasingly dominated by the US
00:04:54
and China what's happened is a sort of
00:04:57
form of learned helplessness
00:05:00
it's that they are aware there's a
00:05:02
problem and dragy was asked as was enrio
00:05:07
lettera was asked to investigate these
00:05:09
issues because people know there's a
00:05:12
problem the letter report and the draggy
00:05:15
report aim to guide the EU out of its
00:05:17
current malaise to understand the aim of
00:05:20
these two major documents we spoke with
00:05:22
enrio letter the author of the letter
00:05:25
report he's a former Italian Prime
00:05:27
Minister and the current dean of e
00:05:30
University School of politics economics
00:05:32
and Global Affairs in Madrid
00:05:34
Spain he says that Europe has to
00:05:37
ReDiscover the true meaning and spirit
00:05:40
of its much vaunted single Market the
00:05:42
idea is that we don't understand that
00:05:45
the single Market is the true Jewel of
00:05:48
the European Union is the Hidden
00:05:52
Gem letter says that Jack delore the
00:05:55
hugely influential president of the
00:05:57
European commission from 1985 to 199 95
00:06:00
told him before he died in 2023 that the
00:06:03
EU had lost sight of its guiding Mission
00:06:05
he always told me they are forgetting
00:06:09
the importance and the centrality of the
00:06:11
single Market they are all forgetting
00:06:13
this importance and he always asked us
00:06:17
at the uh Jac delore Institute to work
00:06:22
on the single Market thinking that the
00:06:24
single Market is the true Center of
00:06:27
everything in a recent article Martin
00:06:29
wolf listed what he sees as the eu's
00:06:31
main
00:06:32
problems he wrote that the most
00:06:35
important are fragmentation
00:06:37
overregulation
00:06:38
inappropriate regulation insufficient
00:06:40
spending and undue conservatism of these
00:06:45
fragmentation is the most
00:06:48
damaging this is the idea that the
00:06:51
single Market doesn't really exist
00:06:54
despite the desire to create uh a single
00:06:58
Market
00:07:00
to create a banking Union an integrated
00:07:04
Financial system to create an integrated
00:07:07
Capital
00:07:08
markets uh which imply of course highly
00:07:13
integrated regulatory systems across the
00:07:17
the the continent across the EU so that
00:07:20
in essence businesses can operate as if
00:07:24
Europe was one the EU is clearly very
00:07:28
very far from that
00:07:30
he says the clearest examples of this
00:07:31
can be seen in banking and defense if we
00:07:34
rescue Banks they will be rescued by
00:07:37
States member states they won't be
00:07:39
rescued by the EU acting together
00:07:41
because the EU as a whole has almost no
00:07:44
fiscal Firepower at all so it's really
00:07:49
really hard in this situation to think
00:07:52
about Europe from the point of view of
00:07:55
the economy the modern economy as an
00:07:58
integrated whole
00:08:00
for enrio Lea healing this fragmentation
00:08:03
is the central message of his report we
00:08:06
think that we are one as the US and as
00:08:11
China but in reality on too many
00:08:14
economic issues Europe is just a
00:08:16
geographical expression we are 27 and if
00:08:20
we keep being
00:08:22
27 uh we will be uh I would say uh
00:08:27
marginalized by the American and the
00:08:29
Chinese that is the main message the EU
00:08:33
Prides itself on its Four Freedoms the
00:08:35
free movement of goods Services capital
00:08:39
and people but enrio Lea says that it
00:08:41
has been missing a fifth freedom and
00:08:43
that now is the time to set that right
00:08:46
we missed the intangible the digital and
00:08:50
so the idea to launch this fifth freedom
00:08:52
on Innovation knowledge and to have uh
00:08:55
everything related to this decision is
00:08:58
for me uh
00:08:59
fundamental uh decision EU leaders
00:09:03
agreed at a meeting in Budapest in
00:09:04
November to work on the introduction of
00:09:06
this intangible fifth Freedom agreeing
00:09:09
in principle to a single market for
00:09:10
research Innovation knowledge and
00:09:12
education a direct response to the
00:09:14
letter and dragy reports at the center
00:09:17
of the draggy report is a call for
00:09:19
Europe to become more productive but it
00:09:21
says that to do that it needs to become
00:09:24
more Innovative and to become more
00:09:26
Innovative it needs to invest
00:09:30
since the financial crisis investment
00:09:32
rates in the US have outstripped those
00:09:34
in the
00:09:35
EU in terms of private investment the EU
00:09:38
was ahead of the us until 2011 but the
00:09:40
Gap has widened significantly over the
00:09:42
past few
00:09:44
years for government investment us and
00:09:47
EU rates have mirrored one another but
00:09:49
the US has also remained
00:09:51
ahead the comparison matters because
00:09:53
many European startups opt to expand in
00:09:56
the US rather than in the any business
00:09:59
sets up in America can regard the whole
00:10:02
United States as its own Market it's
00:10:05
much more difficult for a European
00:10:08
business um the lack of a capital Market
00:10:10
Union for example is one of the reasons
00:10:13
that if you want to set up a startup uh
00:10:16
Tech startup it's so much more sensible
00:10:19
to to to get yourself funded in America
00:10:23
and then even move to
00:10:25
America the consequences are easy to see
00:10:28
here's the largest companies in the
00:10:30
world by market capitalization it's a
00:10:32
list dominated by us firms you have to
00:10:36
go all the way down to number 20 to find
00:10:39
a European firm the Danish
00:10:41
pharmaceutical company Novo
00:10:44
Nordisk among the most valuable us firms
00:10:46
are the world's leading Tech firms Apple
00:10:49
Microsoft and Chip giant Nvidia and
00:10:52
they're worth in the trillions not
00:10:55
billions Europe's biggest firms are much
00:10:57
less valuable the most valuable is at
00:11:00
the same level as the US's 17th or 18th
00:11:02
depending on a day's given rates and
00:11:05
Europe's biggest firms deal in more old
00:11:07
fashioned consumer and Healthcare
00:11:08
products rather than in more Innovative
00:11:11
technological Fields the dragy report
00:11:13
emphasizes repeatedly that the EU must
00:11:16
ramp up public and private
00:11:18
investment he even put an exact figure
00:11:20
on it the report states to meet the
00:11:23
objectives laid out in this report a
00:11:25
minimum annual additional investment of
00:11:28
750 50 to 800 billion EUR is
00:11:32
needed well I think that he went for a
00:11:35
big number in the hope that they people
00:11:37
would be so frightened by the big number
00:11:39
they would agree on a smaller one I
00:11:41
think he thought probably I haven't
00:11:43
talked to him uh about that I have
00:11:45
actually talked to him about the report
00:11:47
uh if you'd asked for a smaller number
00:11:49
people would have said well let's go for
00:11:51
an even smaller number but it's not just
00:11:53
public money the report outlines that if
00:11:55
Europeans invested more and saved less
00:11:58
it would go a significant way towards
00:12:01
making up the shortfall following uh the
00:12:04
ECB numbers there's around 300 billion
00:12:08
euros per year that is the total amount
00:12:12
of money coming from European savings uh
00:12:17
leaving Europe to go to the US and uh
00:12:20
being invested in the American Market
00:12:23
why because the American Market is more
00:12:26
united uh big and and well performing so
00:12:30
I started by saying why don't we work to
00:12:34
retain this big amount of savings in
00:12:37
Europe giving the possibility to
00:12:40
European Savers to invest them in Europe
00:12:43
in European savings tools that can give
00:12:48
them a good return Europeans save a
00:12:51
higher share of their GDP significantly
00:12:53
more particularly private people
00:12:55
households than in America or Britain
00:12:57
for that matter and EOL lettera believes
00:13:00
that private funding will help unlock
00:13:02
Public Funding and that both are
00:13:05
desperately needed today U we understand
00:13:09
very well that the big results we need
00:13:12
we can't get them only with Public
00:13:15
Funding if we are not able to mobilize
00:13:17
private funding it would be impossible
00:13:20
and to mobilize private funding the only
00:13:22
way is to create a a single Market on
00:13:26
financial services in Europe this is
00:13:28
what we don't have to today and this is
00:13:30
why I wanted to put this point at the
00:13:33
center of the scene Mario dr's report
00:13:36
lays out in Stark detail what the EU
00:13:38
needs to do in order to be able to
00:13:40
compete with the US and China but
00:13:42
knowing what has to be done and actually
00:13:44
been able to do it are two very
00:13:46
different things political instability
00:13:49
is a problem including in the two main
00:13:51
EU drivers France and
00:13:53
Germany France has had four prime
00:13:56
ministers in a year
00:13:59
with President Emanuel macron looking
00:14:01
increasingly
00:14:02
weakened Germany will hold elections
00:14:05
next month after the previous
00:14:06
three-party government
00:14:08
collapsed meanwhile both countries have
00:14:10
seen a significant rise in support for
00:14:12
far-right parties as of several other EU
00:14:17
Nations Martin wolf believes that
00:14:19
Germany's reluctance to borrow big
00:14:21
exemplified by a constitutionally
00:14:23
enshrined limit known as the debt break
00:14:26
is holding the nothing can happen here
00:14:30
without Germany uh I mean it's clear and
00:14:33
Germany will have to take the lead and
00:14:36
it will have to be willing to do things
00:14:39
that Germany's historically opposed
00:14:42
concern about common borrowing uh sh
00:14:45
common borrowing common revenue is is
00:14:48
well known there's the debt break uh
00:14:51
which I think will clearly have to go um
00:14:53
it's clearly going to be part of the
00:14:55
debate in the German election he thinks
00:14:57
a Fresh Approach from a new German
00:14:59
government could provide the EU with a
00:15:02
Lifeline if the German government came
00:15:05
forward and said this is an Epoch of
00:15:08
change we have to be show the sort of
00:15:11
ambition we did in uh when the EU well
00:15:16
the EC as it was was founded uh well it
00:15:20
was actually the European coal and Steel
00:15:21
Community was founded and then the EC in
00:15:24
in the 50s uh the single market and The
00:15:27
single currency they're going to have to
00:15:28
show a willingness to do that sort of
00:15:31
thing enrio Lea wants to see Europe
00:15:34
Forge a closer single Market in three
00:15:36
specific areas energy telecoms and
00:15:39
financial services he believes a lot can
00:15:42
be done in a short space of time without
00:15:43
the need for changes to existing EU
00:15:46
treaties the period of Co and also the
00:15:49
period of uh the beginning of the war
00:15:52
the the Russian aggression to Ukraine uh
00:15:55
demonstrate that uh in within the
00:15:57
European treaties there are a lot of
00:16:00
tools that we can use to avoid um I we
00:16:04
say complicated discussions on on treaty
00:16:08
changes and we have not to open the
00:16:11
Pandora dos the Pandora box of treaty
00:16:14
changes because otherwise it will be
00:16:16
impossible to be successful it's clear
00:16:19
that some big decisions have to be made
00:16:21
here in Brussels and across the European
00:16:22
continent and to consider some of the
00:16:25
key questions and the issues involved we
00:16:27
spoke with Pascal donu he's the
00:16:29
president of the Euro Group which is the
00:16:30
collection of the 20 Finance ministers
00:16:33
which make up the Euro Zone Euro group
00:16:35
president Pascal dunu thank you very
00:16:37
much for speaking to us here on business
00:16:38
Beyond not at all Delight to be on your
00:16:40
program now I believe this is the first
00:16:42
Gathering of the Euro group since the
00:16:44
reelection to the presidency in America
00:16:46
of Donald Trump my first question to you
00:16:48
today would be is Europe ready for Trump
00:16:50
2.0 so I believe Europe will be ready
00:16:53
for Trump 2.0 uh because we have a track
00:16:56
record of being able to adjust to really
00:16:59
big strategic developments that takes
00:17:01
place elsewhere in the world uh but we
00:17:04
do have work that we need to do uh we
00:17:06
need to deepen the foundations of the
00:17:08
Euro with regard to Capital markets with
00:17:11
regard to banking Union uh and we also
00:17:13
need to look at what further steps we
00:17:15
can take to deepen the competitiveness
00:17:18
of the European Union uh as we furnish
00:17:22
and develop a new relationship with the
00:17:24
United States we need to do it from a
00:17:26
position of Greater strength than we
00:17:28
have a the moment well I definitely want
00:17:30
to get into some of those issues a
00:17:31
little later but just to step back a
00:17:33
little bit and we look at events all
00:17:34
over the world over the last sort of 5
00:17:36
to 10 years the world has gotten a lot
00:17:38
unfriendliest sudden I mean we can look
00:17:40
at Russia we can look at China it's a
00:17:42
different strand of issues but
00:17:43
nonetheless considerably less friendly
00:17:45
to Europe as it perhaps was in the past
00:17:46
and now indeed our one of our closest
00:17:48
allies the US there's a lot of
00:17:50
uncertainty as you've alluded to in that
00:17:51
relationship so when you look at the EU
00:17:54
and how it's structured particularly
00:17:55
from an economic perspective is it fair
00:17:56
to say that the EU wasn't built
00:17:58
necessarily for this type of a new world
00:18:00
that we're in so uh the EU is a
00:18:03
collection of
00:18:04
democracies uh sometimes does take
00:18:07
longer to adjust to Big developments
00:18:10
than other forms of political governance
00:18:12
but a consequence of our decision making
00:18:15
though is that when we do make decisions
00:18:17
they are resilient they hold and we have
00:18:19
the ability to take big decisions over
00:18:22
time so I think there's no doubt at all
00:18:25
that all of the change that we've seen
00:18:27
happen even in recent weeks from what's
00:18:29
happening in America to what's happening
00:18:31
in the Middle East does remind me that
00:18:34
there's a volatility in the world that
00:18:36
we haven't seen for some time but I
00:18:39
would argue though that stability still
00:18:41
has big benefits particularly if you're
00:18:44
a collection of democracies as the EU is
00:18:47
and I'm confident that we will be able
00:18:48
to rise to the challenges that are now
00:18:51
developing at some speed and we could
00:18:53
talk for example about some of the the
00:18:55
minutia of said the issues that the
00:18:57
Trump presidency could bring in such as
00:18:58
tariffs we could talk about more General
00:19:00
economic tees like inflation and so on
00:19:02
but the EU has clearly been aware for a
00:19:04
while that some of these problems that
00:19:05
are mounting are go beyond these
00:19:07
relatively short-term issues and for
00:19:09
that reason there's been two big reports
00:19:10
commissioned this year the letter report
00:19:12
obviously looking at the single market
00:19:13
and then the the dragy report on
00:19:15
competitiveness why do you think these
00:19:17
reports were so necessary and what have
00:19:19
you as Euro group president taken from
00:19:21
them so they are so necessary because of
00:19:25
the volatility that you described
00:19:26
earlier on uh we can see big changes
00:19:29
that are taking place in Europe uh much
00:19:32
of which is due to the consequences of
00:19:35
the war and what has also H happened
00:19:37
with the cost and the availability of
00:19:39
energy but in addition to all of that
00:19:42
happening we very big Global
00:19:43
developments taking place as we see uh
00:19:47
other parts of the world uh from China
00:19:49
to India to America uh changing their uh
00:19:54
economic stance and we've also seen
00:19:57
their economic growth in recent years
00:20:00
continue to be very strong and their
00:20:02
medium-term economic Outlook also
00:20:05
continued to be very strong so these
00:20:07
pieces of work reassessing where Europe
00:20:10
stands in the world and where the Euro
00:20:12
area stands in the world we're
00:20:14
responding back to the changes that
00:20:15
we've seen taking place in terms of what
00:20:18
we are doing within the Euro group with
00:20:20
regard to this I'd highlight three
00:20:22
pieces of work firstly what is the right
00:20:25
budget policy for the Euro area and for
00:20:27
member states of the Euro area to get
00:20:30
the balance right between having safe
00:20:32
public finances but investing in our
00:20:34
future second it's the work that we have
00:20:37
underway with regard to Capital markets
00:20:39
Union which has taken time but we
00:20:42
shouldn't underestimate the ability of
00:20:45
continuing to make decisions in this
00:20:47
area but maybe accelerating the pace of
00:20:50
that decision making so that we can
00:20:52
deepen and integrate our Capital markets
00:20:54
within the Euro area and the Euro group
00:20:56
has done a lot of work on this and then
00:20:59
finally I would argue that the digital
00:21:01
future of the euro is also a very
00:21:04
strategic response back to the way in
00:21:07
which we see the global economy
00:21:08
beginning to change just on that topic
00:21:11
of budget decisions I mean we we'll get
00:21:12
onto the dragy report now one of the big
00:21:14
headlines from the dragy report was his
00:21:16
his mention of a figure of an extra 800
00:21:18
billion euros a year that's needed in
00:21:20
his View for the EU to catch up in some
00:21:22
of those areas that you've touched on
00:21:23
whether it's Innovation and sort of
00:21:25
digital Innovation and and
00:21:26
Entrepreneurship essentially to try and
00:21:27
catch up with that considerable Gap that
00:21:30
has now emerged between European
00:21:31
companies and American companies and
00:21:32
indeed Chinese companies do you think
00:21:34
the EU can come up with that kind of a
00:21:36
figure and how do you think it could do
00:21:37
this uh yes I believe we can and I
00:21:40
believe there's two ways in which we
00:21:41
will do firstly it will go back to the
00:21:44
opportunity that is there regarding a
00:21:47
private savings within the European
00:21:49
Union and how we can coordinate them in
00:21:52
a way uh that delivers a better benefit
00:21:55
for Europeans and for the European Union
00:21:58
if you have a look at how many other
00:22:01
parts of the world have managed the
00:22:03
investment needs that they have you've
00:22:05
seen them make far smarter use of the
00:22:08
savings and investment uh funds of their
00:22:11
own citizens than we've been able to do
00:22:14
in the European Union so that is a big
00:22:17
part of that that jigsaw and the other
00:22:19
part of the jigsaw will then be
00:22:22
decisions that we make regarding funding
00:22:24
the budget of the European Union and the
00:22:27
willingness of members states to look at
00:22:29
new forms of Public Funding that deliver
00:22:32
European public goods in other words
00:22:34
European Collective benefits and that
00:22:36
will be a big part of the negotiation
00:22:38
for the next budget of the European
00:22:40
Union uh some of which will involve
00:22:42
choices regarding priorities uh what
00:22:46
areas are going to be more important in
00:22:48
the years ahead uh than they have been
00:22:50
in the years that have gone by others
00:22:52
will undoubtedly involve a debate
00:22:54
regarding whether there's a need for New
00:22:56
Economic instruments now we have viewers
00:22:58
from all over the world and you already
00:22:59
alluded to this earlier that there's
00:23:00
whole parts of the world for example in
00:23:02
in India Indonesia what sometimes
00:23:03
referred to as the global South and
00:23:05
other countries all over the place where
00:23:07
they will look at Europe and they look
00:23:08
at European companies and they will just
00:23:10
think that's yesterday's world that's
00:23:12
that's a different type of world the
00:23:13
world's changing as you've as you've
00:23:14
hinted at in many ways why should they
00:23:16
look at Europe now and think well
00:23:18
actually no that's going to be
00:23:19
tomorrow's world as well that's that's
00:23:20
an Innovative place that can that we
00:23:22
need to be have our stake in as well as
00:23:24
the world changes well we need to give
00:23:26
them further reason to believe that uh
00:23:28
uh the uh perception and views of
00:23:31
different parts of the world abs and
00:23:33
flows uh but when you're dealing with a
00:23:35
perception issue I think you need to
00:23:37
look at a level beyond that and say
00:23:39
what's the substance and what we need to
00:23:41
do is look at what are the policy
00:23:43
decisions that we need to make that
00:23:45
would build on the success that we have
00:23:48
that in turn will allow the view of
00:23:50
Europe to be recast by other parts of
00:23:53
the world so from my point of view uh
00:23:56
our ability to fix a a perception issue
00:24:01
will only be delivered when we address
00:24:04
the substance of the issues that is
00:24:06
causing other parts of the world to look
00:24:09
at Europe in a more critical way and the
00:24:11
way in which we will do it is by
00:24:13
decisions that we can make ourselves
00:24:16
that I believe we can make um over the
00:24:19
next one to two years and to make these
00:24:21
decisions obviously we need governments
00:24:23
working together but we also need
00:24:24
populations working together and this
00:24:26
comes at a time when you have
00:24:27
significant Discord in a lot of
00:24:29
countries you have for example I've
00:24:30
mentioned France I've mentioned Germany
00:24:32
a lot of support there for farri
00:24:33
movement it's not impossible to imagine
00:24:35
for example Marine Leen as the future
00:24:37
president of France it's not impossible
00:24:38
to imagine the afd in Germany getting a
00:24:40
significantly larger share of the vote
00:24:42
we see what's happening in Romania at
00:24:43
the moment where a far-right candidate
00:24:45
has been doing very well in elections
00:24:46
there how can can Europe stay United on
00:24:50
some of these issues when you have this
00:24:51
sort of populism rising in all across
00:24:53
the continent by pointing to the
00:24:55
benefits of the European Union and
00:24:57
making the case for a contemporary
00:24:59
rationale for the European Union and for
00:25:02
European political and economic
00:25:04
integration which is the simply say that
00:25:07
because the opportunities that we face
00:25:09
and the challenges that we Face are so
00:25:12
big that no one European country on
00:25:14
their own is capable of rising to them
00:25:17
uh and that we can achieve more together
00:25:19
by acting collectively and if we don't
00:25:21
act collectively the national loss will
00:25:23
even be greater so for me there's a
00:25:25
deeply practical argument to be made
00:25:28
regarding the role of the European Union
00:25:30
I can make many arguments about the
00:25:33
political value of us about the optimism
00:25:36
of us I can make many arguments about
00:25:38
our historical background and why we're
00:25:40
showing a very different way for Europe
00:25:42
in its future versus where we have been
00:25:45
in our past but for many we need to make
00:25:48
a more practical argument at a time of
00:25:49
populism and at a time of division and
00:25:52
that practical argument is as I said
00:25:55
that because the change in the world is
00:25:57
so big no one country can rise to it on
00:25:59
their own no matter how big they are in
00:26:02
Europe Pascal donu president of the Euro
00:26:04
group thank you very much for joining us
00:26:05
today on business language the European
00:26:08
Union is a complex and diverse Place 27
00:26:11
different National governments and
00:26:12
economies a kaleidoscope of cultures and
00:26:15
languages and a wide range of different
00:26:17
political and legal systems yet for most
00:26:19
of the post World War II order the
00:26:21
European Union has found a way not just
00:26:23
to stick together but to thrive together
00:26:26
yet to secure its future the EU must
00:26:28
bind these threads together more tightly
00:26:31
than ever at a time when their fraying
00:26:33
can be seen all across the continent
00:26:35
these are civilizational questions
00:26:37
they're not just about the
00:26:41
way people live from day to day uh
00:26:46
Europe is going to be challenged to be
00:26:48
able to stand up for
00:26:50
itself and to provide a decent living
00:26:54
for its citizens and hope for the future
00:26:57
for its citizens
00:26:58
There's the link between two words that
00:27:01
will be crucial and the two words are
00:27:04
competitiveness and security if we are
00:27:07
not able to integrate the three sectors
00:27:11
that I put at the center of my report
00:27:13
energy Telecom and financial services it
00:27:17
will be impossible to be secure and at
00:27:20
the same time to be competitive the
00:27:23
world has changed dramatically in the
00:27:24
last 10 years and many Europeans are
00:27:27
beginning to feel that a global order
00:27:28
which has served them well for a long
00:27:29
time is beginning to turn against them
00:27:32
the states and the EU together could
00:27:35
disintegrate you can't assume that what
00:27:38
we used to will last that's what history
00:27:41
tells us and particularly European
00:27:43
history of the 20th century is if you
00:27:46
make really big mistakes things can
00:27:49
collapse
00:27:51
completely the EU dream could collapse
00:27:53
and our economies could collapse and
00:27:55
then the future becomes very very dark
00:27:59
and very
00:28:00
unpredictable in 1989 the year the
00:28:02
Berlin Wall fell Jac delore said the
00:28:05
following Europe will never be built if
00:28:08
young people do not see it as a
00:28:09
collective undertaking that will shape
00:28:11
their future nearly four decades later
00:28:15
the continent's leaders face the same
00:28:17
problem Europe's fate depends on their
00:28:20
ability to find the
00:28:24
solution that's all for this episode of
00:28:26
business Beyond if you'd like like to
00:28:28
see more from us check out our playlist
00:28:30
in the description thanks a lot for
00:28:32
watching and until the next time take
00:28:34
care
00:28:40
[Music]
