00:00:02
men dream of women women dream of
00:00:06
themselves being dreamt of men look at
00:00:09
women women watch themselves being
00:00:12
looked at
00:00:17
[Music]
00:00:45
[Music]
00:00:47
women constantly meet glances which act
00:00:50
like mirrors reminding them of how they
00:00:52
look or how they should know
00:00:55
behind every glance is a judgment
00:00:58
sometimes the glance they meet is their
00:01:01
own reflected back from a real man
00:01:16
[Music]
00:01:26
[Music]
00:01:43
[Music]
00:02:20
a woman is always accompanied except
00:02:22
when quite alone perhaps even then by
00:02:26
her own image of herself while she is
00:02:28
walking across a room or weeping at the
00:02:31
death of her father she cannot avoid
00:02:34
envisaging herself walking or weeping
00:02:36
from earliest childhood she is taught
00:02:38
and persuaded to survey herself
00:02:41
continually she has to survey everything
00:02:45
she is and everything she does
00:02:46
because how she appears to others and
00:02:48
particularly how she appears to men is
00:02:50
of crucial importance what is normally
00:02:53
thought of as the success of her life
00:03:00
[Music]
00:03:08
a woman in the culture of privileged
00:03:17
Europeans is first and foremost a sight
00:03:20
to be looked at what kind of sight is
00:03:23
revealed in the average European oil
00:03:26
painting there were portraits of women
00:03:29
as a reporter's of men but in one
00:03:31
category of painting women were the
00:03:32
principal ever occurring subject that
00:03:36
category was the nude in the nudes of
00:03:39
European painting we can discover some
00:03:41
of the criteria and conventions by which
00:03:44
women were judged we can see how women
00:03:46
was seen what then is a nude
00:03:56
in his book on the nude Kenneth Clark
00:03:59
says that being naked is simply being
00:04:02
without clothes the nude according to
00:04:06
him is a form of art I would put it
00:04:11
differently to be naked is to be oneself
00:04:15
to be nude is to be seen naked by others
00:04:18
and yet not recognized for oneself a
00:04:21
nude has to be seen as an object in
00:04:25
order to be a nude in the European oil
00:04:30
painting nakedness is not taken for
00:04:32
granted as in archaic art nakedness is a
00:04:36
sight for those who are dressed that is
00:04:38
why manna is painting which really marks
00:04:40
the end of the period I'm considering is
00:04:42
so profound the comment on all the works
00:04:44
which preceded it the story begins with
00:04:48
the story of Adam and Eve as told in
00:04:50
Genesis and when the woman saw that the
00:04:54
tree was good for food and it was a
00:04:56
delight to the eyes and that the tree
00:04:58
was to be desired to make one wise she
00:05:00
took of the fruit thereof and did eat
00:05:02
and she gave also unto her husband with
00:05:05
her and he did eat and the eyes of them
00:05:08
both were opened and they knew that they
00:05:10
were naked and the Lord God called unto
00:05:13
the man and said unto Him where art thou
00:05:15
and he said I heard thy voice in the
00:05:18
garden and I was afraid because I was
00:05:20
naked and I hid myself under the woman
00:05:23
God said I will greatly multiply thy
00:05:26
sorrow and thy conception in sorrow thou
00:05:29
shalt bring forth children and thy
00:05:31
desire shall be to thy husband and he
00:05:33
shall rule over thee two things are
00:05:39
striking about this story they become
00:05:42
aware of being naked because as a result
00:05:45
of eating the Apple each sees the other
00:05:48
differently nakedness is created in the
00:05:51
mind of the beholder
00:05:53
the second striking fact is that the
00:05:56
woman is blamed and is punished by being
00:05:59
made subservient to the man in relation
00:06:02
to the woman the man becomes the agent
00:06:04
of God
00:06:07
in medieval art the story is often
00:06:09
illustrated seen following seen as in a
00:06:12
strip cartoon during the Renaissance the
00:06:16
narrative sequence disappears and the
00:06:19
single moment which is nadir always
00:06:21
depicted is the moment of shame the
00:06:25
couple wear fig leaves or make a modest
00:06:28
gesture with their hands but now their
00:06:31
shame is not so much in relation to one
00:06:33
another as to the spectator it is the
00:06:35
spectators looking which shames them
00:06:39
later as painting became more secular
00:06:42
many other subjects offered the
00:06:44
opportunity of painting nudes but always
00:06:47
in the European tradition the nude
00:06:49
implies an awareness of being seen by
00:06:53
the spectator they are not naked as they
00:06:57
are they are naked as you see them
00:07:08
often as with a favorite subject of
00:07:11
Susana and the elders this is the actual
00:07:13
theme of the picture we join the elders
00:07:16
to spy on her she looks back at us
00:07:22
looking at her sometimes the woman
00:07:26
Susana looks at herself in a mirror
00:07:29
picturing to herself how men see her she
00:07:33
sees herself first and foremost as a
00:07:36
sight which means a sight for men
00:07:39
thus the Miller became a symbol of the
00:07:42
vanity of women yet the male hypocrisy
00:07:45
in this is blatant you paint a naked
00:07:48
woman because you enjoy looking at her
00:07:50
you put a mirror in her hand and you
00:07:54
call the painting vanity thus morally
00:07:57
condemning the woman whose nakedness you
00:07:59
have depicted for your own pleasure and
00:08:01
thus incidentally repeating the biblical
00:08:04
example by blaming the woman the
00:08:08
judgment of Paris was another favorite
00:08:10
mythological subject with the same in
00:08:12
written idea of men looking at naked
00:08:14
women and judging them Paris Awards the
00:08:18
Apple to the woman he finds most
00:08:20
beautiful beauty in this context is
00:08:23
bound to become competitive the judgment
00:08:26
of Paris is transformed into the beauty
00:08:29
contest aesthetics when applied to women
00:08:32
are not as disinterested as the word
00:08:35
Beauty might suggest I don't want to
00:08:41
deny the crucial part that seeing plays
00:08:44
in sexuality but there's a great
00:08:46
difference between being seen as oneself
00:08:48
naked or seeing another in that way and
00:08:50
a body being put on display to be naked
00:08:55
is to be without disguise to be on
00:08:58
display is to have the surface of one's
00:09:01
own skin the hairs of one's own body
00:09:03
turned into a disguise a disguise which
00:09:07
cannot be discarded amongst the tens of
00:09:11
thousands of European oil paintings of
00:09:12
nudes there are perhaps twenty or thirty
00:09:15
exceptions paintings in which the artist
00:09:18
has seen the woman revealed as herself
00:09:21
this Rubens this Rembrandt
00:09:30
this George de la tour these paintings
00:09:35
are as personal as love to hymns and
00:09:37
their character is quite distinctive
00:09:40
most nudes in oil paintings have been
00:09:43
lined up by their painters for the
00:09:45
pleasure of the male spectator owner who
00:09:48
will assess and judge them as sites
00:09:52
their nudity is another form of dress
00:09:55
they are condemned to never be naked
00:09:58
with their clothes off they are as
00:10:01
formal as with their clothes on those
00:10:05
who are not judged beautiful are not
00:10:08
beautiful
00:10:09
those who are are given the prize the
00:10:13
prize is to be owned that is to say to
00:10:16
be available charles ii commissioned
00:10:20
this secret painting from laylee it's
00:10:23
like hundreds of others it might be
00:10:25
Venus and Cupid but in fact it was a
00:10:28
portrait of one of his mistresses nell
00:10:30
gwyn it shows how passively looking at
00:10:32
the spectator staring at her naked her
00:10:37
nakedness is not an expression of her
00:10:39
own feelings it is only a sign of her
00:10:43
submission to his demand the painting
00:10:48
when he shows it to others demonstrates
00:10:50
this submission his guests envied him by
00:10:54
contrast in another tradition nakedness
00:10:57
is a celebration of active sexual love
00:11:00
as between two people the woman as
00:11:02
active as the man the actions of each
00:11:06
absorbed the other in oil painting the
00:11:11
second person or the second person who
00:11:14
matters is the stranger looking at the
00:11:16
picture compare the expression of these
00:11:19
two women one the model for what is
00:11:23
considered a masterpiece by Aang and the
00:11:26
other a nil paid model for a photograph
00:11:28
in a girly magazine or these two
00:11:34
just the expression the look what do you
00:11:38
see it seems to me that in each pair the
00:11:42
expression is remarkably similar and
00:11:44
that it is an expression of responding
00:11:46
with calculated charm to the man whom
00:11:49
she knows is looking at her although she
00:11:51
doesn't know him it is true that
00:11:54
sometimes a painting includes a male
00:11:56
lover but the woman's attention is very
00:11:59
rarely directed towards him she looks
00:12:02
away from him or she looks out of the
00:12:04
picture towards he who considers himself
00:12:06
a true lover the spectator owner this
00:12:11
painting was sent as a present from the
00:12:13
Grand Duke of lanced the King of France
00:12:15
the boy kneeling on the cushion and
00:12:17
kissing the woman is Cupid she's Venus
00:12:19
but the way her body is arranged has
00:12:22
nothing to do with that kissing her body
00:12:25
is arranged in the way it is to display
00:12:27
it to the man looking at the picture the
00:12:30
picture is made to appeal to his
00:12:32
sexuality it has nothing to do with her
00:12:35
sexuality the convention of not painting
00:12:38
the hair on a woman's body helps towards
00:12:40
the same end hair is associated with
00:12:42
sexual par with passion the woman sex or
00:12:45
passion needs to be minimized so that
00:12:48
the spectator may feel that he has the
00:12:50
monopoly of such passion there were
00:12:53
paintings which depicted male lovers
00:12:55
sees that exist but they were mostly
00:12:57
private semi-pro no graphic pictures in
00:13:00
most paintings which were painted to be
00:13:02
seen rather than hidden the only rival
00:13:05
to the male spectator is a cupid and how
00:13:09
extraordinary it is that the pictorial
00:13:11
symbol of passion was a small boy for a
00:13:15
similar reason women in the European art
00:13:17
of the oil painting are seldom shown
00:13:20
dancing they have to be shown language
00:13:22
exhibiting a minimum energy they are
00:13:26
there to feed an appetite not to have
00:13:28
any of their own the appetite was
00:13:32
theoretically gargantuan
00:13:36
the absurdity of this male flattery
00:13:39
although it was not seen as absurd then
00:13:41
reached its peak in the public academic
00:13:44
art of the 19th century
00:13:46
prime ministers discussed under
00:13:48
paintings like this when one of them
00:13:50
felt he had been outwitted he looked up
00:13:53
for consolation the nude in European oil
00:13:58
painting is usually presented as an
00:14:00
ideal subject it is said to be an
00:14:03
expression of the European humanists to
00:14:05
it
00:14:06
I don't want to reject entirely the
00:14:08
truth of this but I've tried to add to
00:14:11
it starting off from a different
00:14:12
viewpoint dealer who believed in the
00:14:16
ideal nude thought that this ideal could
00:14:20
be constructed by taking the shoulders
00:14:22
of one body the hands of another the
00:14:25
breasts of another and so on was this
00:14:28
humanist idealism or was it the result
00:14:32
of an indifference to who any one person
00:14:34
really was do these paintings celebrate
00:14:38
as we're normally taught the women
00:14:41
within them or the male wire is their
00:14:46
sexuality within the frame or in front
00:14:50
of it I showed the program as you have
00:14:54
seen it up till now to five women it
00:14:57
began to seem absurd that the only
00:14:58
images you were seeing were of women
00:15:00
silent mute so I showed it to them and
00:15:04
asked them to comment to comment not so
00:15:06
much on the program but rather on the
00:15:07
questions raised by it above all on the
00:15:10
question of how men see women or have
00:15:12
seen them in the past and how this
00:15:14
influences the way women see themselves
00:15:16
today we have an image of course we all
00:15:19
have an image of ourselves and it's a
00:15:21
visual image but I wonder how much this
00:15:25
sort of classical European painting has
00:15:29
shaped that image in my own case I find
00:15:31
it quite impossible when I look at the
00:15:33
paintings that you show in your film I
00:15:35
can't take them seriously I cannot
00:15:37
identify with them because they are so
00:15:39
immensely exaggerated always you know
00:15:41
they fasten onto some secondary sexual
00:15:44
characteristics
00:15:47
Bres sort of great big bee sting bottoms
00:15:51
you know and those huge things like that
00:15:53
and they just aren't real whereas with
00:15:55
photographs you you can you can feel
00:15:59
that is potentially that's possibly me
00:16:00
although it probably isn't but these
00:16:04
these nearly all the paintings you have
00:16:06
shown are what is called idealized and
00:16:11
therefore they are to me very unreal in
00:16:15
connection with with any deep down image
00:16:18
that I might have of myself and in
00:16:20
connection with any deep down pleasure
00:16:22
that I might have in looking at another
00:16:25
female body they don't give me that
00:16:27
again pleasure at all can admire them as
00:16:30
painting but they are they don't mean
00:16:33
human beings to me the image that I
00:16:36
compare myself with is the photograph
00:16:38
because it's with photographs that I've
00:16:41
been encouraged to think of myself in
00:16:43
this way it is essentially advertising
00:16:45
for me that's contributed to this and
00:16:47
consequently I find it extremely
00:16:49
interesting to go back and think of
00:16:51
nudes in this way because I've never
00:16:53
done sit but having seen the film I have
00:16:55
no doubt that the same thing applies and
00:16:58
do you find that the new it's in
00:17:01
painting under the other in the same way
00:17:02
yes well you can't get any information
00:17:06
from it it's no guide towards
00:17:11
information is lacking
00:17:13
oh well activity you know dynamism
00:17:16
anything it is how someone sees you and
00:17:19
that's all it's something laid upon you
00:17:21
I'm glad you showed them any picture
00:17:24
because I always find is extremely
00:17:27
shocking and because the men addressed
00:17:30
and I love women are naked and this
00:17:32
seems to me sum up the whole situation
00:17:33
it's a humiliating position and these
00:17:36
women are aware of being humiliated and
00:17:39
I think this is part of the whole scheme
00:17:40
of things I mean I think most people
00:17:42
have had and some station in life it's
00:17:44
all nightmares about running sort of
00:17:46
speaks with nothing
00:17:47
in everybody else's list and this seems
00:17:50
to me one element in the pictures a very
00:17:53
interesting thing you said in the film
00:17:54
was about how nudity was really a kind
00:17:59
of disguise it wasn't the real person
00:18:02
themselves and free but it was just
00:18:05
another garment they were wearing and
00:18:07
worse than a garment in the sense
00:18:08
because something that you can't take
00:18:10
off this comes I think from nudity being
00:18:14
combined with a pose and that's
00:18:16
inevitable if you're going to have a
00:18:18
painting of a model in a way I think
00:18:25
that we're always dressing we're always
00:18:28
dressing up for a part always putting on
00:18:32
a uniform of one kind or another and I
00:18:34
think women do this almost more than men
00:18:35
men have only begun doing it fairly
00:18:37
recently women are always dressing to
00:18:40
show the kind of character that they
00:18:42
want to represent the mother the working
00:18:45
woman the pretty young chick and nudity
00:18:49
is a uniform in a way for I'm ready now
00:18:54
for sexual pleasure you see and so it
00:18:57
doesn't you you can't come you can't
00:19:00
identify being nude with being free I've
00:19:03
only just recently read that book he's
00:19:06
12 dull which describes some way in
00:19:09
which a woman is reduced for the sexual
00:19:12
pleasure of the man she's in love with
00:19:13
to a complete object and what struck me
00:19:15
in all that book as the most impressive
00:19:18
image was the fact that she was told
00:19:21
that she was never to touch her own
00:19:24
breasts to entirely close her mouth or
00:19:26
too close or to put her legs together
00:19:29
and so the whole point about her stance
00:19:32
all the time was it she was available
00:19:33
and this the sense of being available
00:19:36
the sense of waiting for other people is
00:19:39
a very antithesis of action and it you
00:19:42
know just like the whole the the Brook
00:19:45
Street Bureau advertisement Tony hasn't
00:19:47
rung you know he's three minutes late
00:19:48
and ringing and you feel this whole
00:19:50
situation the number women you talk to
00:19:52
who say I stay in so many nights a week
00:19:54
waiting for somebody to ring that the
00:19:56
the concept of availability implies
00:19:59
passivity
00:20:00
because if you're simply waiting for
00:20:01
somebody else to act then you contact
00:20:02
yourself yes it's it's like um you will
00:20:06
awake when a man taps you you know that
00:20:11
but really it's an excuse to get
00:20:15
yourself going I think I'm gonna - I
00:20:20
know they're waiting too long yes yes
00:20:25
could I say something there but
00:20:27
narcissism I think that both men and
00:20:30
women are narcissistic but in different
00:20:32
senses and I think that one in sometimes
00:20:37
I have the impression that men and women
00:20:39
are tremendously narcissistic and cut
00:20:42
off from each other by their images of
00:20:44
themselves but that whereas a woman's
00:20:46
image of herself is derived directly
00:20:50
from other people the mirror you're
00:20:52
talking about a man's image of himself
00:20:54
is derived from the world that is it's
00:20:58
the world that gives him back his image
00:21:00
because he acts in it and you know women
00:21:04
are drawn to him as a source a central
00:21:07
activity and as a source of worth I mean
00:21:11
since he is in the world the fact that
00:21:13
he values her is important and so
00:21:17
because they're sort of centers of
00:21:18
narcissism are different and the woman's
00:21:22
is essentially only related to the other
00:21:24
person she's having much more passive
00:21:26
position than years yes do you see do
00:21:32
you see narcissism as essentially a and
00:21:35
a negative or positive well I think
00:21:42
that's very difficult to answer but in
00:21:44
the sense that it is related to identity
00:21:48
it's a positive phenomenon and it seems
00:21:51
to me that what women envy and men a lot
00:21:53
of the time is that they have a sense of
00:21:54
their own identity that there is
00:21:56
something in them which is important to
00:21:58
them other than simply what other people
00:22:01
think of them and I think that that
00:22:02
thing is the product of their
00:22:05
interaction with the world that is
00:22:07
things and other people and it's sort of
00:22:09
it's almost as if through this
00:22:11
interaction they actually build up a
00:22:12
store of worth a sense of themselves
00:22:18
which which is a constant I mean it
00:22:20
can't be lost but that because the woman
00:22:22
doesn't go out and act she doesn't
00:22:24
create the store she waits only for the
00:22:27
present interaction with a man that and
00:22:30
that can go that can just end at any
00:22:32
moment pronounced way of stating a
00:22:51
relationship but this other question
00:22:58
which is contained within it as far as
00:23:02
it doesn't idea is this sort of self
00:23:07
delight of a person whether it's a man
00:23:10
or woman in life in what they're doing
00:23:15
in their relationships with men or women
00:23:19
and it's a thing that matters
00:23:23
tremendously and it's not only a kind of
00:23:27
inner thing I quit you live but it's a
00:23:31
very outer thing by which you gain
00:23:35
relationships with your own context in
00:23:39
the world that you can't gain any other
00:23:41
way that it's when you have somehow been
00:23:46
made some conscious of yourself that you
00:23:50
easily naturally sort of compulsively go
00:23:54
out to whatever is going on around you
00:23:57
now we're not a child
00:23:59
that tends northern with people to be
00:24:03
other things doesn't it mountain streams
00:24:08
wherever you go
00:24:11
and then only
00:24:14
as you make this kind of absolutely
00:24:21
necessary contact with people but I do
00:24:26
think that the sort of essence self
00:24:31
denied as a kind of possible thing in
00:24:35
the modern world and something that
00:24:37
fewer women have the men and won't a
00:24:40
master is the power the compulsion not
00:24:45
the power the compulsion to make contact
00:24:50
with the world as you are living in it
00:24:52
when I say that I don't just mean the
00:24:54
people next door are your friends I
00:24:56
simply mean what is going on I'm not so
00:25:02
sure about the delight I think it's a
00:25:04
very double-edged thing I know as I
00:25:08
suppose I've always known but I became
00:25:09
aware of it then his film I have never
00:25:11
consciously looked at myself in the
00:25:13
mirror and seen myself as I am I always
00:25:16
see the image that I want I know and my
00:25:19
children notice it that if I make up my
00:25:21
face I put on a certain expression if I
00:25:23
from adolescence on if I've seen myself
00:25:26
naked in the mirror I have not thought
00:25:28
of myself naked I have thought of myself
00:25:29
as a nude and I think this comes very
00:25:32
largely from having being trailed around
00:25:34
all the major art galleries in
00:25:35
adolescence you know this is culture
00:25:37
this is beauty the capital B and of
00:25:41
course up to a point from advertising to
00:25:43
but much more the painting thing that
00:25:46
you use you think the female body is
00:25:50
beautiful I am a beautiful object if not
00:25:52
I have to do something about it and
00:25:55
therefore the painful part of the
00:25:57
narcissistic thing is I think the
00:25:59
feeling of inadequacy now this business
00:26:03
of always posing in a mirror I think one
00:26:06
does absolutely automatically and the
00:26:08
result is that if you actually catch
00:26:10
yourself in a mirror by chance
00:26:13
that's not deliberately because you're
00:26:15
getting dressed or something I've had a
00:26:16
bath but because there's one in the
00:26:18
street we would catch yourself in a shop
00:26:21
window it's a tremendous shock because
00:26:23
you suddenly see yourself as you are
00:26:24
which is windblown untidy badly
00:26:27
just tired and so on you don't see the
00:26:30
pose at all and I think this is what
00:26:32
happens to women that they're always
00:26:34
trying to measure up to this erotic
00:26:36
image that is projected that there are
00:26:40
some paintings and I think at this
00:26:42
moment in particular of one painting
00:26:44
well there's a woman who is wearing a
00:26:46
garment she's not nude but it is a
00:26:48
garment so loose so comfortable so easy
00:26:53
and it's my idea very much of what a
00:27:00
picture of a woman might be like it I
00:27:02
think it's actually before your period
00:27:04
almost it's so long ago I mean zips by
00:27:06
Lorenzetti it comes in the good and bad
00:27:08
government it's a fresco it's very very
00:27:11
old you know and it is a picture of a
00:27:13
woman who is supposed to represent peace
00:27:15
it's quite extraordinary but she could
00:27:17
be one of the liberators or trying to be
00:27:20
liberated young women today she is a
00:27:23
tease she is relaxed she is not playing
00:27:26
any part at all she is able to combine
00:27:31
pleasure with thoughts and with dreaming
00:27:35
and she's she might spring into action
00:27:38
at any moment
00:27:39
and I think for me she has much much
00:27:43
more to do with with with nakedness with
00:27:47
oneself with the truth about oneself
00:27:50
than any number of nudes as I've ever
00:27:51
seen
00:27:55
[Music]
00:28:03
and the third part of ways of seeing is
00:28:06
here at the same time tomorrow next
00:28:08
tonight Andrew Graham Dixon is at the
00:28:10
Tate Modern for an exhibition by max
00:28:12
Beckman
00:28:14
[Music]
00:28:26
in ting we can discover some of the
00:28:29
criteria and conventions by which women
00:28:32
were judged we can see how women was
00:28:34
seen what then is a nude
00:28:44
in his book on the nude Kenneth Clark
00:28:47
says that being naked is simply being
00:28:50
without clothes the nude according to
00:28:53
him is a form of art I would put it
00:28:58
differently to be naked is to be oneself
00:29:02
to be nude is to be seen naked by others
00:29:06
and yet not recognized for oneself a
00:29:09
nude has to be seen as an object in
00:29:13
order to be a nude in the European oil
00:29:17
painting nakedness is not taken for
00:29:19
granted men dream of women women dream
00:29:26
of themselves being dreamt of men look
00:29:30
at women women watch themselves being
00:29:32
looked at
00:29:38
[Music]
00:30:06
[Music]
00:30:08
women constantly meet glances which act
00:30:11
like mirrors reminding them of how they
00:30:13
look or how they should know
00:30:45
a woman is always a company to accept
00:30:48
when quite alone perhaps even then by
00:30:51
her own image of herself while she is
00:30:54
walking across a room or weeping at the
00:30:56
death of her father she cannot avoid
00:30:59
envisaging herself walking or weeping
00:31:02
from earliest childhood she is taught
00:31:04
and persuaded to survey herself
00:31:06
continually she has to survey everything
00:31:10
she is and everything she does
00:31:12
because how she appears to others and
00:31:14
particularly how she appears to men is
00:31:16
of crucial importance what is normally
00:31:19
thought of as the success of her life
00:31:26
[Music]
00:31:35
a woman in the culture of privileged
00:31:43
Europeans is first and foremost a sight
00:31:46
to be looked at what kind of sight is
00:31:49
revealed in the average European oil
00:31:52
painting there were portraits of women
00:31:54
as a reporter's of men but in one
00:31:56
category of painting women were the
00:31:58
principal ever occurring subject that
00:32:02
category was the nude in the nudes of
00:32:05
European paper behind every glance is a
00:32:08
judgment sometimes the glance they meet
00:32:11
is their own reflected back from a real
00:32:14
now
00:32:26
[Music]
00:32:37
[Music]
00:32:54
[Music]
