NewsNight panel reacts to GA school shooter’s father being charged

00:08:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=morUzgx-s-I

Résumé

TLDRThe discussion focuses on the accountability of parents in cases where children are involved in gun-related incidents, particularly mass shootings. Montel Williams suggests harsh penalties for neglectful parents. There's debate on where the culpability lies, whether with parents, schools, or law enforcement, and if charges like involuntary manslaughter are appropriate. There's concern about setting a precedent that might unfairly target vulnerable families. The discussion also touches on the age at which children should be held accountable and the need for improved mental health services. J.D. Vance critiques the idea of stringent gun control, asserting that it hasn't reduced school shootings. The conversation emphasizes the need for some form of regulation, at least, like restricting minors from owning assault rifles, and speculates on how future generations will view today's gun regulations.

A retenir

  • 🔒 Accountability: Emphasizes holding parents accountable for children's actions involving guns.
  • ⚖️ Legal Charges: Discusses potential charges like involuntary manslaughter for neglectful parents.
  • 🧩 Culpability: Debates on where blame should be placed, including schools and law enforcement.
  • 🚫 Gun Control: Highlights potential regulation, especially restricting minors from owning firearms.
  • 🤔 Slippery Slope: Concerns about potential unfair targeting of vulnerable families.
  • 📚 School's Role: Questions what more schools could do to prevent incidents.
  • 🧠 Mental Health: Calls for more mental health resources as part of the solution.
  • ⏳ Future Perception: Wonders how future generations will look at today's gun laws.
  • 🎯 J.D. Vance's View: Criticizes gun confiscation from law-abiding citizens, says stricter laws haven't helped.
  • 🤝 Bipartisan Consensus: Suggests some straightforward regulations all sides could agree on.

Chronologie

  • 00:00:00 - 00:08:25

    The discussion revolves around holding parents legally accountable for their children's actions involving guns, especially in cases like mass shootings where parents knowingly provide weapons to minors. There is a debate about whether harsh penalties for parents would deter such incidents, and concerns about potential misuse of laws against vulnerable families. The conversation touches on responsibilities of other entities like law enforcement and schools, implying that a wider scope of accountability might be beneficial. Additionally, there's consideration of the implications of gun culture and regulations in the U.S. and how they affect both responsible and irresponsible gun ownership.

Carte mentale

Mind Map

Questions fréquemment posées

  • Who suggests holding parents accountable for children's gun-related actions?

    Montel Williams suggests holding parents accountable and even sentencing them to prison in cases of negligence.

  • What types of charges are being discussed related to the shootings?

    Charges include involuntary manslaughter and straight-up murder charges.

  • Is there concern about the accountability of parents in these situations?

    Yes, there is concern about a possible slippery slope that could unfairly target vulnerable parents.

  • What role do schools and law enforcement have in these scenarios?

    The discussion raises whether schools and law enforcement could do more to prevent shootings.

  • Is there a debate on at what age children should be held accountable?

    There is an ongoing discussion about at what age, such as 14, children should be considered for responsible actions.

  • What are some people's concerns about regulating gun ownership through children's acts?

    There is worry about going after vulnerable families, especially black families, due to children's actions.

  • What is being suggested as a solution apart from punishing parents?

    There is mention of the need for more mental health services instead of solely focusing on punitive measures.

  • What do people speculate about future perceptions of current gun laws?

    There is speculation that future generations will view the current lack of action on gun control as inadequate.

  • What is J.D. Vance's stance on gun laws?

    J.D. Vance criticizes the approach of taking guns from law-abiding citizens, suggesting that strict gun laws have not solved the issue.

  • Is there any mention of bipartisan agreement on gun control preferences?

    Yes, there is a suggestion that rational minds should agree on not allowing minors to own assault rifles.

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  • 00:00:00
    ACCOUNTABILITY LIKE THIS
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    ULTIMATELY BE A DETERRENT IN
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    MASS SHOOTINGS HERE AT THE
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    TABLE WITH US IN NEW YORK LAST
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    NIGHT ON THIS VERY SHOW,
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    SITTING RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE
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    LAST NIGHT, MONTEL WILLIAMS,
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    WITHOUT KNOWING ANY OF THIS,
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    WITHOUT KNOWING THAT THIS
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    WEAPON WASN'T JUST IN THE
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    HOUSE, BUT IT WAS GIVEN TO THIS
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    KID. THIS IS WHAT HE SAID SURE.
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    >> HOLD THESE PARENTS
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    ACCOUNTABLE. LET'S START
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    LOCKING THOSE PARENTS UP BY 15,
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    20 YEARS. THEN WE'RE GOING TO
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    START SEEING AT LEAST
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    RESPONSIBILITY AND THE GUN
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    OWNERSHIP WORLD THAT IS THE
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    QUESTION. TONIGHT. FOUR COUNTS,
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    NOT NOT YOU KNOW MANSLAUGHTER
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    HE NEEDS NOT JUST MANSLAUGHTER
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    BECAUSE HE'S FACING FOUR
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    INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER, BUT
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    HE'S ALSO CHASING FACING
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    MURDER CHARGES STRAIGHT UP
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    MURDER CHARGES WILL THIS MAKE A
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    DIFFERENCE?
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    >> I MEAN, TO BE HONEST, IT
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    DOES IN SOME WAYS AND LET ME
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    JUST I DON'T HAVE KIDS. RIGHT.
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    OKAY. AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT
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    YOU HAVEN'T KIDS ARE NOT HAVING
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    KIDS MEANS THAT YOU CAN'T BE A
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    PART OF THIS CONVERSATION. BUT
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    THE PART THAT I WORRY ABOUT THE
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    MOST IS WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A
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    SLIPPERY SLOPE, I THINK IN THIS
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    CASE, THE CHARGES ARE FAIR
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    BECAUSE EVEN IF THIS WAS THE
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    MOST RESPONSIBLE CHILD OF ALL
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    TIME WHY WOULD BUYING A
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    MILITARY STYLE WEAPON BE A GOOD
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    IDEA TO PUT IN THE HANDS OF A
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    14-YEAR-OLD, ANY 40. OKAY. IF
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    THEY GOT STRAIGHT A'S, I DON'T
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    CARE IF THEY COME HOMO TAB THEY
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    VEGGIES SAY THEY PRAYERS. IT
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    DOESN'T MATTER. THAT IS NOT
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    THE TYPE OF WEAPON THAT BELONG
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    IN THAT BELONGS IN AT CHILD'S
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    HANDS? BUT I DO THINK THAT I
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    THINK ABOUT HOW POTENTIALLY
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    SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD BE
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    WEAPONIZED AGAINST THE MOST
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    VULNERABLE PARENTS AND THAT'S
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    WHERE I GET A LITTLE BIT
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    CONCERNED, BUT I THINK IN CASES
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    OF OBVIOUS NEGLECT WITH THIS,
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    WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE CASE
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    OF MICHIGAN WITH THE CRUMBLEYS
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    AND THE SCHOOL SHOOTING THERE
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    YES, THAT MAKES SENSE. WHEN YOU
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    ARE KNOWINGLY PUTTING THE
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    SELF-DESTRUCTIVE THINGS IN THE
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    HANDS OF CHILDREN AND YOU KNOW,
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    THEY HAVE PROBLEMS AS A PARENT,
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    YOU HAVE TO ANSWER TO THAT.
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    I'M JUST NOT SURE IF THE
  • 00:02:01
    BLANKET ANSWER IS ALL PARENTS
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    NEED TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT
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    THEIR CHILDREN DO KNOWINGLY
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    PART IS THE KEY PART HERE
  • 00:02:09
    BECAUSE THE POLICE CAME TO THIS
  • 00:02:11
    FAMILY AND SAID WE REPORTS THAT
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    YOUR SON MIGHT BE PLOTTING AN
  • 00:02:18
    ATTACK ON A SCHOOL ATTACKED
  • 00:02:20
    BASICALLY LIKE THE ONE THAT
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    HAPPENED. AND THEN MONTHS
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    LATER, YOU GO OUT AND YOU BUY A
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    WEAPON I PUT MY KIDS ON THE BUS
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    TODAY WAS THE FIRST DAY OF
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    SCHOOL AND I WAS THINKING TO
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    MYSELF, I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR
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    EVERY ASPECT OF THEIR LIVES.
  • 00:02:31
    >> I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR HOW MY
  • 00:02:32
    KINDERGARTENER IS GOING TO
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    BEHAVE IN CLASS TODAY, RIGHT?
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    I'M HOPING THESE NICE TO THE
  • 00:02:36
    FELLOW KIDS. I'M HOPING THAT
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    HE BEHAVES. I'M HOPING IS ON A
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    BULLY. IF I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR
  • 00:02:41
    THAT, THEN OF COURSE I'M
  • 00:02:42
    RESPONSIBLE FOR SOMETHING LIKE
  • 00:02:43
    THIS AND WHETHER THAT ENDS AT
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    17 OR 18, OR 19, THERE'S
  • 00:02:47
    INTERESTING DISCUSSIONS TO HAVE
  • 00:02:48
    ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT THE CUTOFF
  • 00:02:50
    IS. BUT FOR A 14-YEAR-OLD IT
  • 00:02:53
    SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR.
  • 00:02:54
    >> I MEAN, LOOK, I I JUST
  • 00:02:55
    WONDER TO JAMIL'S POINT IN
  • 00:02:56
    TERMS OF CULPABILITY, DOES IT
  • 00:02:58
    STOP? BEGIN END WITH THE
  • 00:02:59
    PARENTS. WHAT ABOUT THE FBI
  • 00:03:01
    VISITED THE PARENTS? COULD THEY
  • 00:03:02
    HAVE DONE MORE? WHAT ABOUT THE
  • 00:03:04
    SCHOOL'S OBLIGATION TO PROTECT
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    OTHER STUDENTS SHOULD THEY HAVE
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    DONE MORE WOULD ABOUT LAW
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    ENFORCEMENT? I MEAN, THERE ARE
  • 00:03:09
    SO MANY QUESTIONS HERE, ABBY
  • 00:03:11
    AND I GET MANTEL'S POINT, BUT
  • 00:03:13
    THERE ARE A LOT OF RESPONSIBLE
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    GUN OWNERS IN THIS COUNTRY.
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    I'M FROM THE SOUTH, MANY
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    PEOPLE THAT I KNOW HAVE KIDS
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    WHO ARE VERY YOUNG WHO ARE
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    COMPETITIVE SHOOTERS, PISTOLS,
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    SHOTGUNS, ARS THEY'RE
  • 00:03:23
    PERFECTLY RESPONSIBLE, BUT I
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    DON'T WANT TO DIFFERENTIATE
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    BETWEEN THE RESPONSE THAT YOU
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    CAN BE. I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND
  • 00:03:30
    WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT BUT
  • 00:03:31
    BUT BUT A CHILD I DON'T KNOW
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    THAT EVEN A CHILD WHO IS MAYBE
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    YOU DO COMPETITIVE SHOOTING OR
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    HUNTING OR WHATEVER. I DON'T
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    KNOW THAT YOU COULD SAY THAT
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    CHILD IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT
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    HE DO WITH THAT WEAPON ERROR
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    SCENARIOS.
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    >> IT'S A CONTROLLED SCENARIO,
  • 00:03:47
    RIGHT? SO I WANT I WANT CLARITY
  • 00:03:49
    THERE. BUT I'M JUST SIMPLY
  • 00:03:50
    SAYING I JUST DON'T WANT TO
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    DEMONIZE EVERY SINGLE PERSON
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    WITH AN AR 15 OR WHAT GUNS
  • 00:03:55
    GENERALLY SPEAKING. BUT AGAIN,
  • 00:03:56
    BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POINT IN
  • 00:03:57
    TERMS OF CULPABILITY, WHERE
  • 00:03:58
    DOES IT BEGIN? WHERE DOES IT
  • 00:04:00
    END? AND COULD THE OTHER
  • 00:04:01
    ENTITIES INVOLVED IN THIS
  • 00:04:02
    PROCESS, SHOULD THEY? THEY HAVE
  • 00:04:03
    DONE MORE AND I DON'T THINK WE
  • 00:04:04
    HAVE AN ANSWER TO THAT.
  • 00:04:05
    >> I THINK THAT THAT'S A
  • 00:04:06
    REALLY FAIR POINT. IT'S WHERE
  • 00:04:07
    DOES THE CULPABILITY LIE AND
  • 00:04:09
    WHERE IS THE STRUCTURE FOR IT?
  • 00:04:10
    BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN STATES
  • 00:04:11
    THAT HAVE BEGUN TO PASS SOME
  • 00:04:12
    LEGISLATION ABOUT PARENTS BEING
  • 00:04:13
    MORE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR
  • 00:04:15
    CHILDREN'S ACTIONS. AND I
  • 00:04:16
    THINK TO YOUR POINT AS WELL,
  • 00:04:17
    WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT
  • 00:04:19
    THOSE MOST VULNERABLE MY ALSO
  • 00:04:20
    GET CAUGHT UP IN THIS THERE.
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    I'M SURE THERE ARE PLENTY OF
  • 00:04:23
    PARENTS OUT THERE WHO HAVE BEEN
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    SOUNDING THE ALARM, BEGGING FOR
  • 00:04:26
    HELP WITH THEIR CHILDREN AND
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    JUST NOT ABLE TO ACCESS
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    RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO GET
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    THEIR CHILDREN ON THE RIGHT
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    PATH. MY CONCERN AS WELL WOULD
  • 00:04:32
    BE IS YES, BEARS WILL BE A
  • 00:04:34
    PAPER TRAIL YOUR RECORD.
  • 00:04:37
    >> HOWEVER, THIS LEGISLATION IS
  • 00:04:38
    WRITTEN BECAUSE I'M SURE MANY
  • 00:04:39
    THESE STATES WILL BEGIN LOOKING
  • 00:04:39
    AT THIS MORE AGGRESSIVELY NOW,
  • 00:04:41
    IS THAT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO
  • 00:04:44
    SET THOSE STANDARDS FOR
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    PARENTS. IS IT DOES IT START
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    WITH YOUR CHILD, BEAT UP
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    SOMEONE AT SCHOOL. SO NOW
  • 00:04:48
    YOU'RE RELIABLE FOR THE
  • 00:04:49
    VIOLENT ACT OR FOR VIOLENT ACTS
  • 00:04:51
    LIKE, WHERE ARE THESE LINES AND
  • 00:04:53
    THESE GRAVES? THESE ARE ALWAYS
  • 00:04:54
    THE TOUGHEST THINGS TO
  • 00:04:57
    MILITARIES WILL DECIDE THAT'S
  • 00:04:58
    WHAT WORKED IN THE CRUMBLEY
  • 00:04:59
    CASE. BUT THE JURIES. DO YOU DO
  • 00:05:03
    YOU STILL GOING UP TO BLACK
  • 00:05:03
    MOTHERS WHO HAVE YOUNG SONS WHO
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    MAY FIND THEMSELVES IN TROUBLE
  • 00:05:06
    IN THE STREET, DO PROSECUTORS,
  • 00:05:08
    MOSTLY WHITE, ARE GOING AFTER
  • 00:05:09
    THEM BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE A
  • 00:05:11
    PROBLEM WITH IT. NOW, WHERE
  • 00:05:12
    THIS PARTY LIVED THROUGH THAT,
  • 00:05:13
    WHEN BLACK FAMILIES WERE
  • 00:05:15
    PROSECUTED UNDER THE NOTION OF
  • 00:05:16
    THE DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILY.
  • 00:05:18
    >> SO WE'VE SEEN THAT HAPPEN
  • 00:05:19
    AND IT DOESN'T WORK IN EFFECT.
  • 00:05:19
    THEY'VE WAY I DON'T THINK WE
  • 00:05:20
    CAN TALK ABOUT THIS IN AN
  • 00:05:21
    ISOLATED SOLUTION. I'M A FORMER
  • 00:05:23
    TEACHER. IF I KNEW AND I TAUGHT
  • 00:05:25
    SPECIAL EDUCATION AND I HAD
  • 00:05:27
    CHILDREN THAT WERE EMOTIONALLY
  • 00:05:28
    DISTURBED. AND IF I HAD KNOWN
  • 00:05:30
    THAT ONE OF MY PARENTS BOUGHT
  • 00:05:31
    ONE OF MY CHILDREN GUN AND I
  • 00:05:33
    CALL THEM MY CHILDREN BECAUSE
  • 00:05:35
    THEY WERE MY STUDENTS. I WOULD
  • 00:05:37
    BE TERRIFIED. I WILL BE CALLING
  • 00:05:39
    SO TO EVEN KNOW THAT THEY'D
  • 00:05:40
    NOBODY KNEW THAT. BUT FOR A
  • 00:05:42
    PARENT TO DO THAT FOR A CHILD
  • 00:05:43
    THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN BROUGHT
  • 00:05:45
    SAYING THAT IF YOU LISTEN TO
  • 00:05:47
    THE AUDIO, THE FATHER SAYS,
  • 00:05:47
    I'M OFF TO KNOW THAT MY SON
  • 00:05:50
    WAS TALKING ABOUT A SCHOOL
  • 00:05:52
    SHOOTING. SO IF YOU'RE OFF TO
  • 00:05:53
    KNOW THAT YOUR SON IS TALKING
  • 00:05:55
    ABOUT A SCHOOL SHOOTING. I'M
  • 00:05:56
    OFF THAT YOU BOUGHT HIM THE GUN
  • 00:05:57
    THE PARENTS NOW HAVE WE HAVE
  • 00:05:59
    PARENTS WHO WILL NEVER SEE
  • 00:06:00
    THEIR CHILDREN. AGAIN, WE HAVE
  • 00:06:01
    A WHOLE 2000 STUDENTS WHO WERE
  • 00:06:04
    TRAUMATIZED PROBABLY FOR THE
  • 00:06:05
    REST OF THEIR LIVES WITH PTSD.
  • 00:06:07
    IF YOU LISTEN TO THE STUDENTS
  • 00:06:08
    THAT MANY OF OUR ANCHORS WERE
  • 00:06:09
    IN REPORTERS WERE INTERVIEWING,
  • 00:06:09
    THEY WERE TREMBLING WITH FEAR,
  • 00:06:11
    JUST HAVING TO RELIVE THAT. BUT
  • 00:06:14
    I DON'T THINK IT'S JUST ABOUT
  • 00:06:15
    THE PARENTS BEING RESPONSIBLE.
  • 00:06:16
    I THINK THAT THIS INSTANCES THE
  • 00:06:18
    RIGHT CASE, AND I THINK THE
  • 00:06:19
    CRUMBLEY CASE WAS THE RIGHT
  • 00:06:20
    DECISION. WHY DID THEY HAVE AN
  • 00:06:23
    AR 15? AND THIS GOES BACK TO
  • 00:06:24
    WHY DON'T WE HAVE MORE MENTAL
  • 00:06:26
    HEALTH SERVICES. WE ALWAYS WANT
  • 00:06:27
    TO GO TO A ONE-SHOT SOLUTION
  • 00:06:30
    VERSUS WHAT USING THE WORD
  • 00:06:31
    POORLY. BUT A ONE STOP SOLUTION
  • 00:06:32
    WHEN WE KNOW THAT THESE ISSUES
  • 00:06:34
    ARE MORE COMPLICATED. AND I
  • 00:06:36
    JUST I'VE BEEN THINKING A LOT
  • 00:06:38
    ABOUT LIKE, WHAT WOULD I DO IF
  • 00:06:39
    I WAS ALIVE 50 YEARS AGO. BUT I
  • 00:06:41
    ALSO THINK LIKE, WHAT WILL
  • 00:06:42
    PEOPLE THINK ABOUT US IN 100
  • 00:06:44
    YEARS WHEN THEY SEE CHILDREN
  • 00:06:46
    YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR
  • 00:06:48
    GETTING MURDERED IN SCHOOLS AND
  • 00:06:50
    U.s. ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER OR
  • 00:06:51
    NOT WE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE
  • 00:06:52
    WEAPONS AWAY FROM THEM. I JUST
  • 00:06:54
    I WONDER WHAT THE ANSWER, BUT I
  • 00:06:56
    WANT TO PLAY WHAT J.D. VANCE,
  • 00:06:58
    THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE, NOMINEE
  • 00:07:00
    FOR VICE PRESIDENT, SAID ABOUT
  • 00:07:02
    THIS WHEN HE WAS ASKED EARLIER
  • 00:07:03
    TONIGHT THE KAMALA HARRIS
  • 00:07:06
    ANSWER TO THIS IS TO TAKE LAW
  • 00:07:09
    ABIDING AMERICAN CITIZENS GUNS
  • 00:07:10
    AWAY FROM WHAT YOU'VE GOT SOME
  • 00:07:11
    STATES WITH VERY STRICT GUN
  • 00:07:13
    LAWS AND YOU'VE GOT SOME
  • 00:07:14
    STATES. THEY DON'T HAVE STRICT
  • 00:07:16
    GUN LAWS AT ALL. IN THE STATES
  • 00:07:18
    WAS STRICT GUN LAWS. THEY HAVE
  • 00:07:19
    A LOT OF SCHOOL SHOOTINGS. AND
  • 00:07:20
    THE STATES WITHOUT STRICT GUN
  • 00:07:21
    LAWS, SOME OF THEM HAVE SCHOOL
  • 00:07:22
    SHOOTINGS TO SO CLEARLY STRICT
  • 00:07:24
    GUN LAWS IS NOT THE THING THAT
  • 00:07:25
    IS GONNA SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.
  • 00:07:31
    >> WELL, THAT'S QUITE AN
  • 00:07:32
    ANSWER AND THAT'S PROBABLY THE
  • 00:07:34
    PART OF THE GENERAL APATHY OF
  • 00:07:37
    THIS. LIKE WE HAVE BECOME THE
  • 00:07:38
    NATION OF LIGHT WHILE WE JUST
  • 00:07:39
    CAN'T DO ANYTHING, WE, YOU
  • 00:07:41
    KNOW, WE HAVE MORE GUNS TWICE
  • 00:07:43
    AS MANY GUNS AS PEOPLE HEAR.
  • 00:07:44
    THAT'S THAT'S THE REALITY OF
  • 00:07:46
    WHERE WE AREN'T TO YOUR POINT
  • 00:07:47
    IT'S, LIKE WHEN YOU THINK
  • 00:07:49
    ABOUT, IF YOU'RE IN A TIME
  • 00:07:50
    CAPSULE, WHEN YOU LOOK BACK NOW
  • 00:07:51
    AT THIS TIME AND WHAT WE WOULD
  • 00:07:53
    HAVE DONE, THE ANSWER WOULD
  • 00:07:55
    HAVE BEEN NOTHING THAT WOULD
  • 00:07:56
    JUST SPINNING THE INERTIA.
  • 00:07:57
    FIRST OF ALL, VICE PRESIDENT
  • 00:07:58
    HARRIS DIDN'T SAY SHE WANTED
  • 00:07:59
    TO TAKE ALL THE GUNS AWAY, SO
  • 00:08:00
    HE STARTED WITH A LAB RIGHT
  • 00:08:01
    AWAY AND PEOPLE THINK THE
  • 00:08:03
    SLIGHTEST BIT OF REGULATION,
  • 00:08:04
    LIKE CAN WE ALL AGREE, NOT A
  • 00:08:06
    GOOD IDEA IF YOU'RE UNDER FOR
  • 00:08:08
    18 TO HAVE AN ASSAULT RIFLE,
  • 00:08:09
    NOT A GOOD IDEA. DON'T CARE WHO
  • 00:08:10
    YOU ARE. IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA
  • 00:08:12
    TO DO THIS. THERE ARE VERY
  • 00:08:13
    SIMPLE THINGS THAT I THINK I'D
  • 00:08:16
    LIKE TO THANK THE RATIONAL PART
  • 00:08:18
    OF OUR BRAINS WOULD SAY IT'S
  • 00:08:20
    PROBABLY NOT GOOD THAT YOU CAN
  • 00:08:21
    PURCHASE A HIGHLY POWERFUL
  • 00:08:23
    WEAPON BEFORE YOU CAN ACTUALLY
Tags
  • parent accountability
  • mass shootings
  • gun control
  • legal culpability
  • child responsibility
  • mental health services
  • vulnerable families
  • school safety
  • law enforcement
  • gun laws