00:00:00
What about Intel? Intel's probably
00:00:02
screwed. Okay.
00:00:06
They pride themselves on providing a
00:00:08
first class Linux experience. What if I
00:00:11
want a third class Linux experience? Cuz
00:00:12
that's really DIY. Okay.
00:00:16
Just just order the board from Newton.
00:00:18
That's like the longer you think about
00:00:20
that, the more of an insult it becomes.
00:00:24
Wendell, is
00:00:27
x86 actually screwed? This is an ARM
00:00:30
system. ARM CPUs and ARM CPUs are taking
00:00:34
over everywhere. They're in automotive
00:00:35
and they're pretty much, you know,
00:00:38
something interesting
00:00:41
arm arm yourselves with new machines. Uh
00:00:44
you could say that there are sockets in
00:00:46
the cloud that have gone from x86 to ARM
00:00:48
and they are never coming back to x86.
00:00:50
You think so? Yeah, they're never it's
00:00:51
it's they're just no. What possible
00:00:53
reasons have been given to them to not
00:00:55
want to come back to x86? Cost and it's
00:00:57
good enough. Got it. Before that, this
00:00:59
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below. So, uh this I think he said to me
00:01:34
this is did you say this is the most
00:01:36
powerful ARM workstation? Workstation.
00:01:39
Okay. So, this is a system 76 Thelio
00:01:42
Astra A1N1 128 3 GHz cores. Um, the CPU,
00:01:48
you know, like the ARM CPU release
00:01:50
cadence. This is from Ampear. Uh, the
00:01:52
CPU first showed up in 2021, but this is
00:01:54
still the fastest ARM workstation that
00:01:56
you can get. What's the spec on the CPU?
00:02:00
Uh, 3 GHz uh from Ampear and so it's
00:02:03
Neoverse in one cores. It has 512 GB of
00:02:06
memory. Um, this configuration is
00:02:08
something you can order directly from
00:02:09
system 76. If you're doing ARM
00:02:11
development, there is really not a
00:02:13
better platform to do ARM development.
00:02:15
There was all the, you know, the
00:02:16
Snapdragon stuff. The new CPUs launched
00:02:18
the Snapdragon had their dev kit that
00:02:21
they seemed like kind of a flop. They
00:02:23
canceled it. Yeah, if you ordered it for
00:02:25
and then this is great. And uh, I just
00:02:28
did a video on setting up Linux on this.
00:02:30
Well, it comes from system 76 with
00:02:32
Linux. So, there's not really a lot that
00:02:33
you have to do as far like they do a lot
00:02:35
for you. But why does this mean or does
00:02:37
this mean x86 is screwed? It it means
00:02:40
that uh for certain markets, yeah, x86
00:02:43
has has missed the boat and automotive.
00:02:45
So like if you're a software developer
00:02:47
and you're doing automotive development,
00:02:48
but now we also have Windows on ARM and
00:02:50
so I got Windows on ARM working on this
00:02:52
thing as a virtual machine.
00:02:55
That's cool. That's a lot of fun. Does
00:02:57
it work basically just like Windows
00:02:59
except with some overhead? Yeah, it's
00:03:01
Well, it's the Windows, you know, the
00:03:02
ARM version for like laptops. Yeah, it's
00:03:04
basically that but a virtual machine on
00:03:07
Linux. Yes. Okay, cool. With with
00:03:09
hardware pass. It's not doing emulation
00:03:11
or anything like that. It is running on
00:03:13
the same ARM cores, but you're still
00:03:15
running Linux as the host. Yeah. So, I I
00:03:18
guess there is a bit of a question of if
00:03:20
that's the case, then why wouldn't you
00:03:22
just run Windows natively? Yeah, you
00:03:24
could. You totally could. There's not
00:03:26
Nvidia drivers for Windows yet, but
00:03:28
there is Nvidia drivers for ARM. So if
00:03:31
you run Linux on ARM well
00:03:35
we don't talk about those the Nvidia is
00:03:39
not yet talking about the Windows on ARM
00:03:41
drivers but Linux ARM okay you can
00:03:44
that's fine yeah yeah yeah but they are
00:03:46
okay we well there is a driver we won't
00:03:49
talk about that's the Windows one
00:03:52
x86 is the microprocessor architecture
00:03:55
and it dates from the 1980s and really
00:03:59
there are some that will argue that x86
00:04:01
isn't even x86 anymore. Under the hood,
00:04:02
the CPU is doing all kinds of
00:04:04
translations. You get into this whole
00:04:06
system architecture thing. It's like,
00:04:07
oh, it's very long instruction words and
00:04:09
this is complicated. And basically, it
00:04:11
has to do with long the long tail of
00:04:13
compatibility. So, programs that were
00:04:15
written for computers 5 years ago, 10
00:04:18
years ago, 20 years ago, mostly still
00:04:20
run fine on modern machines. And it
00:04:22
relies on hardware to do that, not
00:04:24
software. But some would argue that
00:04:26
we've crossed this kind of Rubicon where
00:04:28
it actually makes more sense to do away
00:04:30
with the old Croft in hardware and deal
00:04:32
with the old Croft in software instead.
00:04:34
So when you encounter a 10 or 20 year
00:04:36
old program, the system emulates the
00:04:39
state of things 10 or 20 years ago and
00:04:42
runs that way. This is Windows on ARM.
00:04:44
So this is natively like Windows
00:04:46
compiled to run on the ARM micro
00:04:48
architecture. And the ARM micro
00:04:50
architecture was designed much later and
00:04:52
has been um designed with power
00:04:54
efficiency in mind. It's been designed
00:04:56
with lowering the number of transistors
00:04:58
that you have to use for compute. Apple
00:05:00
famously switched from x86 to ARM. And
00:05:03
Apple would tell you that that opened up
00:05:04
the possibility of like laptops that
00:05:06
last 13 hours on battery and like
00:05:08
suspend resume works. A lot of the
00:05:10
problem that we have in modern laptops
00:05:12
where you put it to sleep and then
00:05:13
sometimes it gets hot and in your bag
00:05:15
and like destroys the battery and that
00:05:17
has to do with legacy hardware and and
00:05:19
not great debugging and like it's you
00:05:22
could kind of blame that on x86 although
00:05:25
it's not technically x86 fault. It's
00:05:28
also window I I'll keep this short. I
00:05:31
was on a plane recently for that terrace
00:05:32
story and you know we got the
00:05:34
announcement like now shut down your
00:05:36
large electronic devices. I went to
00:05:38
shutdown and it said not only was it
00:05:41
updating Windows, but it began flashing
00:05:44
the firmware and it said 18 minutes
00:05:47
remaining and I had to smuggle my laptop
00:05:50
in a corner. I'm like, if I close it, I
00:05:52
put it in the back, it's going to die.
00:05:54
It's going to be a bad time. The reality
00:05:57
of it for Apple is that it wasn't the
00:06:00
abandoning x86. it was that hardware and
00:06:02
software came closer together to
00:06:04
understand sort of each other's needs in
00:06:06
order to deliver an experience and that
00:06:09
has not happened outside of ARM.
00:06:11
Microsoft thought that was going to
00:06:12
happen with Qualcomm and maybe they
00:06:14
delivered on some of that to some
00:06:16
extent. Now is the other reason x86 is
00:06:18
screwed because uh this CPU is capable
00:06:21
of running at 3,148 degrees.
00:06:25
That is a bug. Oh, okay. Got it. Um, so
00:06:30
x86, so Intel and
00:06:33
AMD, they both told me that x86 is alive
00:06:37
and well. They both went on stage and
00:06:39
they said this is the year for x86. It
00:06:42
is really amazing that Intel and AMD
00:06:45
sort of recognized the threat that ARM
00:06:46
poses to the extent that they formed a
00:06:48
consortium. And so like I say that there
00:06:52
are certain applications that were x86.
00:06:54
Apple is never going to go x86 again. So
00:06:57
all of that socket revenue for the x86
00:06:59
market, whether Intel or AMD, it's not
00:07:01
coming back. And that's also true in in
00:07:03
cloud, like a lot of cloud providers.
00:07:05
Now, this is 128 3 GHz cores. Is a
00:07:08
Thread Ripper machine faster? Yes. Can
00:07:10
you get, you know, 128 cores in an Epic
00:07:12
server? Yes. Can you get 192 cores in an
00:07:14
epic server? Yes. Are those cores faster
00:07:17
for raw compute? Also, yes. But there
00:07:22
are certain aspects of the system that
00:07:23
make it really attractive to developers.
00:07:25
So if you're doing automotive like
00:07:27
embedded systems, automotive, specialty
00:07:29
programming, HVAC controls, that sort of
00:07:32
thing, this is really a fantastic
00:07:33
platform. ARM is a fantastic platform
00:07:35
for that. And this is a fantastic
00:07:36
platform for developing for those not
00:07:39
128 core systems. So you don't have 128
00:07:41
core system in a car. It might only be
00:07:43
two or four or eight cores, but this can
00:07:45
simulate it. And so it's a great
00:07:47
development, cost viable for those
00:07:48
companies. Yeah. So this is a a
00:07:50
relatively inex costs less than a thread
00:07:52
ripper and you get 128 cores, 3
00:07:54
gigahertz. It's also it doesn't have uh
00:07:56
boost in the same way that you think of
00:07:58
boost now like a lot of modern
00:08:01
benchmarks depend on the CPU boosting.
00:08:03
This is just 3 GZ all the time. It's
00:08:05
really designed for a cloud workload
00:08:06
where it's 100% loaded or a car
00:08:08
automotive workload where it's basically
00:08:10
running at 100% all the time. Um why you
00:08:15
know when Intel and AMD were going up on
00:08:16
stage I I want to say Nvidia might have
00:08:18
said something as well but they are
00:08:20
also Yeah. So, so that's a different
00:08:23
thing. But why would Intel and AMD Why
00:08:27
did they lie to me? Intel. Intel.
00:08:29
Wendle. Your name is Wendle, not Intel.
00:08:31
Why did they I've exposed him. He's He's
00:08:35
He's part of Intel now. So, they said
00:08:37
they basically said x86 is alive and
00:08:40
well. And they were talking about this
00:08:42
during the time that the ARM laptops
00:08:44
were making a lot of waves. Oh, yeah.
00:08:46
Qualcomm I think it was. And uh so they
00:08:49
both very clearly reacted to this where
00:08:52
it was let's get out there and tell the
00:08:54
world that no no no no like x86 is good
00:08:58
including at press events they did the
00:09:00
same thing and so why why would they be
00:09:04
so invested in x86 and when is that
00:09:08
answer licensing
00:09:13
they they need to uh people need to have
00:09:17
a good experience experience with x86.
00:09:19
If people have a better experience with
00:09:20
ARM, people will not care as much. So,
00:09:23
if you're a laptop buyer, are you
00:09:25
looking for performance? Are you looking
00:09:27
for just to be able to run your
00:09:29
applications? Do you really even care
00:09:30
what it's doing? And so, for for ARM,
00:09:34
for some when those laptops launched,
00:09:35
it's like, okay, this laptop will give
00:09:36
you a much better battery life. And
00:09:38
yeah, it's not as fast and yeah, you
00:09:40
can't play games, but you can run your
00:09:42
office applications, you can run teams
00:09:43
without the battery running down in an
00:09:44
hour and a half, even though you've got
00:09:46
a blurred background. You know, there's
00:09:47
all this stuff and it's like, okay, this
00:09:49
is an objectively better experience.
00:09:51
Kind of like how Apple with their stuff,
00:09:53
it's like objectively the M1 is a better
00:09:56
experience than pre previous x86
00:09:59
laptops. Can you find also from Apple?
00:10:01
Yeah. You find uh you know edge cases
00:10:04
where that x86 laptop was faster than an
00:10:06
M1 laptop? Sure. But now that you know
00:10:09
we're on M4 laptops, it's like that's
00:10:11
not really true. There's not there's not
00:10:13
really um a workload where you can do an
00:10:16
apples to apples comparison. But there
00:10:20
are where you could do a true we could
00:10:23
do a true apples to apples. It's like
00:10:25
don't don't engage with the pun. Don't
00:10:27
engage with the pun. Steve's learned
00:10:29
well. Don't engage with the pun.
00:10:32
But if you show interest in the puns,
00:10:34
then they will continue. But you do see
00:10:36
innovation in x86 like uh uh uh AMD has
00:10:40
like the tricks halo 128 gig laptops and
00:10:42
that came kind of out of left field. 16
00:10:44
cores 128 gigs and like an eight or nine
00:10:46
hour battery life. That's that is
00:10:48
incredible mobile performance and ARM
00:10:51
arguably there are ARM CPUs available in
00:10:54
that context. Certainly we know Nvidia
00:10:56
is has some secret projects. It's like
00:10:59
oh the ARM laptop with an Nvidia GPU
00:11:02
media tech. Yeah. That just seems
00:11:04
obvious, right? Like you would go that
00:11:05
route. And if Windows is all in on an
00:11:08
ARM experience that is not emulated, it
00:11:11
is not running x86. The program has been
00:11:14
recompiled. Then you're good to go.
00:11:15
Linus Toval is Linux. He's really
00:11:17
excited about ARM. He's compile because
00:11:19
um from Linux's perspective on the Linux
00:11:21
side, x86 has accumulated a lot of
00:11:24
technical debt, a lot of crust, and so
00:11:26
he's very frustrated supporting the
00:11:28
crust in software. And that is a lot to
00:11:31
ask developers. So, who who does it who
00:11:34
does it hurt or screw over? If Microsoft
00:11:38
and all these people are starting to
00:11:40
move towards ARM, who does that affect
00:11:42
the most? Well, I think AMD could pivot
00:11:45
to ARM type solutions pretty easily with
00:11:47
chiplets and everything else. Um, users
00:11:50
would have a harder time running older
00:11:52
software potentially, like the
00:11:54
emulation, the software emulation layers
00:11:55
maybe are not quite as good. Older
00:11:57
popular applications probably would work
00:11:59
fine, but less popular older
00:12:00
applications may have problems. What
00:12:03
about Intel? Intel's probably screwed.
00:12:09
Okay, it's in the a long list of lineage
00:12:13
of yearly is Intel screwed updates.
00:12:16
We've gotten our yearly update. So, so
00:12:18
if Intel is probably screwed with this
00:12:21
and x86 is is possibly partially
00:12:24
screwed, x86 has to evolve with the
00:12:26
times and can it uh the strict halo is
00:12:31
encouraging. It is encouraging to see
00:12:33
that level of innovation on x86 because
00:12:36
if you look at that, we haven't I I
00:12:37
personally don't think that we've had
00:12:39
that level of innovation from x86 in a
00:12:41
long time. If you look at the growth of
00:12:43
embedded systems for x86 like you just
00:12:45
look at the number of systems for
00:12:46
automotive and everything else and like
00:12:49
ARM is winning there and part of it is
00:12:50
cost part of its complexity like this is
00:12:52
an easier platform to get into as a
00:12:55
developer. Let's look at the hardware on
00:12:57
this a little bit. So like the first
00:12:58
thing I'm seeing is I don't work with
00:13:01
systems like this at all. You know we're
00:13:03
we work with kind of quoteunquote
00:13:04
standard desktops. First thing I notice
00:13:06
is the 24 pin is actually a four pin.
00:13:08
Yeah. Sort of. This is a this is
00:13:10
actually there's an epic motherboard.
00:13:11
This is an ASRock motherboard. This is
00:13:13
designed for the Ampear processor.
00:13:15
There's an ASRock motherboard for Epic
00:13:16
that does the same thing that most
00:13:18
server motherboards now only care about
00:13:20
12 volts. And it's kind of legacy to
00:13:22
have the 24 pin connector. Could they go
00:13:24
12vo? Is there a reason not to just go
00:13:26
like 10 pin 12vo spec? They could they
00:13:30
could uh there probably are boards that
00:13:32
do that, but this is aimed at kind of
00:13:34
like quasi ATX compatibility, and
00:13:36
they've chosen to solve that problem by
00:13:38
giving you a little breakout header.
00:13:40
Yeah. Um, what else is unique with this
00:13:43
system other than the fact that it has a
00:13:45
separate discrete power button attached
00:13:47
to a PCB? It's a microATX system. It's a
00:13:50
microATX board. You can order the board
00:13:51
separately. Like you can get a the board
00:13:53
and CPU combo from like Newegg or
00:13:55
wherever, but System 76 puts this
00:13:57
together in Colorado. It's sort of a
00:13:59
unique case and it's their case design.
00:14:02
And the little Raspberry Pi computer on
00:14:04
the side here is just quality of life.
00:14:06
It's something that system 76 provides
00:14:08
in the thelio systems um so that they
00:14:12
can you know control the fans a little
00:14:15
better and have a little bit better
00:14:16
quality of life experience for
00:14:17
everything else. This is an Arctic power
00:14:20
CPU cooler. I was about to say it jumps
00:14:21
out to me that they're using DIY
00:14:23
components in here and not like OEM
00:14:25
style. So Arctic I saw be quiet fan and
00:14:28
XPG power supply and ASUS GPU. Yep. What
00:14:32
um why are there rocket ships
00:14:33
everywhere? That's their That's their
00:14:35
corporate thing. They they made the me
00:14:37
like they stamped the thing. There's
00:14:38
even like a hidden message in the
00:14:40
alignment of the planets and the fan
00:14:41
group. Oh, when you say made in what'
00:14:43
you say? Colorado. Colorado. Yeah. You
00:14:45
mean actually made in Colorado? Okay.
00:14:47
So, they stamped the case there. Yep.
00:14:50
That's the next one we're going to. Yay.
00:14:53
It is. They they pride themselves on
00:14:56
providing a firstass Linux experience
00:14:59
with this kind of a platform even to the
00:15:00
extent they do their own Linux distro.
00:15:02
What if I want a third class Linux
00:15:03
experience? Cuz that's really DIY. Okay,
00:15:08
just just order the board from Newegg
00:15:09
and that's like the longer you think
00:15:12
about that, the more of an insult it
00:15:14
becomes. You you're going to be on the
00:15:15
level one forums probably asking for
00:15:18
help. Do you do you feel like x86? You
00:15:22
said there's some places it's evolving
00:15:24
with the times.
00:15:26
Do you feel like it can right now? I
00:15:28
guess it's not even like uh it doesn't
00:15:30
have to catch up because it's in the
00:15:31
lead. So, well, it's in the lead for
00:15:33
performance, but arguably it's not in
00:15:34
the lead for battery life. That's true.
00:15:37
Yeah. And longevity of like What about
00:15:39
an enterprise world? Where's in the
00:15:41
enterprise world? It's really
00:15:42
interesting. Um I think the most
00:15:44
interesting place that um that ARM
00:15:47
exists in the enterprise is these kinds
00:15:49
of server workloads. Um Amazon famously
00:15:52
has their Graviton ARM systems. Those
00:15:54
aren't available at retail, but ARM has
00:15:57
ARM in that context for Amazon has
00:15:58
displaced an ungodly number of x86
00:16:01
sockets. Like AMD and Intel, I guarantee
00:16:03
you there have been board meetings where
00:16:04
they are super worried about how
00:16:06
successful Amazon has been with
00:16:08
Graviton. And it's like, oo, do they
00:16:11
need
00:16:12
to I mean, does does AMD need to start
00:16:15
making stuff targeted at ARM? I think
00:16:18
that um they kind of are. So like if we
00:16:21
look at um Zen 4C and Zen 5C the the the
00:16:25
compact cores um that is kind of an
00:16:28
answer to the efficiency and scalability
00:16:30
of ARM. So like some of the innovation
00:16:32
that AMD is doing is a direct answer to
00:16:35
the kinds of things that company the
00:16:37
kinds of advantages companies are
00:16:39
getting from leveraging an ARM platform.
00:16:41
And so in a in a way ARM being as
00:16:43
successful as it is is sort of changing
00:16:45
the trajectory of x86. Okay that's
00:16:48
interesting too. What about so in the
00:16:50
consumer audience though the enterprise
00:16:53
world's always been kind of in a
00:16:56
different spot where I don't know the
00:16:58
numbers these days but I remember a time
00:16:59
reading the market share distribution of
00:17:01
operating systems in different types of
00:17:03
computing and at that time desktop was
00:17:05
like definitely over 90% Windows and uh
00:17:10
there was some Linux use it was like
00:17:12
couple percent apple was still only a
00:17:13
couple% we're talking a long time ago
00:17:15
and then um server I remember being the
00:17:19
other way it was like over 90% Linux. Y
00:17:22
uh so these are very different markets
00:17:23
but consumer it behaves totally
00:17:26
differently and what if we just break it
00:17:28
down as like the gaming world where I
00:17:30
personally I'm really waiting for Steam
00:17:32
OS to come out on desktop properly. You
00:17:35
can do that stuff already in Linux but
00:17:37
the idea with Steam OS is they've
00:17:39
they've really gotten momentum with it.
00:17:41
There's good compatibility. They have
00:17:43
frame time advantages for pacing
00:17:44
sometimes which is cool. Uh, and it's
00:17:46
something that I feel like the average
00:17:48
consumer could put a USB stick in,
00:17:50
install it, and probably be okay. Yeah,
00:17:53
there there are a couple of Linux
00:17:54
distros that are like that now. Basite,
00:17:56
for example, it leverages all the cool
00:17:58
stuff from Steam, and it is basically
00:18:00
just point-click install. You get Mango
00:18:02
HUD and Gamecope for controlling the the
00:18:05
system platform, right? that uh Stricks
00:18:07
Halo laptop that I have. Uh when you
00:18:09
have Gamecope and Mango HUD installed on
00:18:12
it, um you can set the power targets and
00:18:14
be like, "Hey, only run the CPU at 15
00:18:15
watts." And in most games, you can still
00:18:17
get like 1440p upwards of 60 fps at like
00:18:20
medium and and a long battery life
00:18:23
because of that, right? So with these
00:18:24
ARM platforms, do you think is the
00:18:26
consumer experience developing enough
00:18:28
where you know for I guess if I from my
00:18:31
perspective what I need on a system is I
00:18:36
I would really prefer it has some
00:18:38
ability to play games um at a software
00:18:41
compatibility level and then I really
00:18:43
need it to be able to run Adobe and you
00:18:45
know Premiere, Photoshop, some type of
00:18:49
uh word processing potentially things
00:18:51
like that. So where are we with that
00:18:54
experience in ARM? So with Windows on
00:18:56
ARM and the Adobe suite, Adobe has
00:18:58
released good support for the ARMbased
00:19:00
Windows and as a result of that, this
00:19:02
platform will work great with the the
00:19:03
Adobe suite and acceleration. We're
00:19:05
still waiting on Nvidia native drivers.
00:19:08
right now, Qualcomm's uh built-in video,
00:19:11
Qualcomm hasn't they're letting the OEMs
00:19:14
do the video drivers, but I'm sure that
00:19:17
my perspective on this, and I'm sure
00:19:19
that you'll echo this, is that when
00:19:20
Nvidia allowed OEMs to control that,
00:19:22
remember the bad old days? It's like,
00:19:24
oh, I'm going to use the EVGA or the MSI
00:19:26
driver on like the the colorful whatever
00:19:29
because their driver does a thing.
00:19:30
Qualcomm hasn't learned that lesson yet.
00:19:32
This is true PCIe. This is Ampier and so
00:19:36
this is going to be the far superior
00:19:38
experience because out the gate um it is
00:19:41
like this but this is not a consumer
00:19:43
system. This platform will enable
00:19:45
developers to bring a first class
00:19:47
consumer experience. One one question uh
00:19:50
you said something about this being
00:19:52
PCIe. Yeah. What is it with you
00:19:56
and PCIe? That's the that's the that's
00:19:58
the common hardware language that we all
00:20:00
must speak and we all must speak it
00:20:02
well. Yeah. There's another video you
00:20:04
should check out. I think we called it
00:20:05
the future is PCIe or something with
00:20:08
them and we just shot another one before
00:20:11
this about PCIe, more devices and more
00:20:15
stuff. So this has an Intel AX210
00:20:18
uh nick in it and that is a great
00:20:20
wireless nick and that is well supported
00:20:22
in Linux even on ARM because Linux ARM
00:20:25
like it's not it's believe it or not
00:20:27
Linux open source I want to go from x86
00:20:30
to ARM Linux is not that makes that
00:20:32
pretty easy. Okay, this uh Nick does not
00:20:35
have a proper Windows driver and so I've
00:20:37
passed through this device as a PCIe
00:20:40
device to my Windows VM. M my Windows VM
00:20:43
thinks that this is plugged into bare
00:20:45
metal hardware. As a developer, I'm
00:20:48
going to have a way easier time
00:20:50
developing drivers for this piece of
00:20:51
hardware through this kind of like para
00:20:54
virtualization. Okay. Than I will
00:20:56
working on bare metal windows and that
00:20:58
is that is that will enable a better
00:21:00
consumer experience. Got it. Because
00:21:01
that's kind of what ultimately all the
00:21:03
companies can do company things but
00:21:05
there does need to be mass adoption too.
00:21:08
Yes. And it can't just be enterprise. I
00:21:10
mean enterprise is important but
00:21:11
enterprise where the money is. So I
00:21:13
guess that's where you generate the
00:21:14
money to start going after consumer.
00:21:16
Well you know remember Microsoft
00:21:18
launched the um the Surface X and
00:21:22
Microsoft was we want to build a premium
00:21:24
experience but what the OEMs saw was
00:21:26
we're going to build the cheapest
00:21:27
Windows tablet we possibly can. And so
00:21:29
you got the cheapest Windows tablet you
00:21:31
possibly could and no one liked that.
00:21:32
Yeah. Whereas Apple's goals were we want
00:21:34
a premium experience and how we get
00:21:37
there is we control the platform so that
00:21:40
we control a tight coupling of hardware
00:21:42
and software and that was really what it
00:21:43
was about right. Yes. Apple is all about
00:21:45
control.
00:21:48
Yeah. Okay. Cool.
00:21:51
So one last time to bring it back to the
00:21:54
intro. Right now in
00:21:56
2025 is x86 actually screwed. They're on
00:22:01
a trajectory. they're going to have to
00:22:03
respond to this kind of innovation
00:22:06
because this is there are innovative I
00:22:08
mean this is a DDR4 platform you know
00:22:11
blah blah blah but there are really
00:22:12
innovative things there are lots of
00:22:14
desire reasons that a development
00:22:16
platform like this is desirable and so
00:22:19
because of that there's a gap in the
00:22:20
market with x86 it's going to drive
00:22:22
prices lower it's going to it's going to
00:22:24
drive features up but it's also I think
00:22:26
the real thing is that it has to drive
00:22:29
x86 to be willing to abandon some of its
00:22:32
legacy. Yeah. So that it can do better
00:22:34
innovation with less overhead as you as
00:22:37
emulation gets better or as the things
00:22:40
it's emulating get sufficiently old that
00:22:42
they can be brute forced on modern
00:22:44
hardware that'll be easier. So y so so
00:22:47
the answer then is x86 is currently on a
00:22:49
screwshaped
00:22:51
trajectory and those sockets are not
00:22:53
coming back that whatever's gone to
00:22:55
graviton like in that aspect of it.
00:22:57
Yeah, it's done. Yeah. Yeah. And you can
00:22:59
learn more about this kind of stuff on
00:23:00
level one text. Thank you, Wendell, for
00:23:02
joining me. Oh, thank you. It's a lot of
00:23:03
fun.
