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[Music]
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It's now the fourth night since
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operation Sindur. That's a day when
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India carried out targeted strikes only
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on terrorist infrastructure deep inside
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Pakistan. The following nights after
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that have seen a lot of fireworks, a lot
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of fireworks. The whole country has been
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watching it sort of transfixed as we've
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been doing since around 8:30 this
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evening when action started over Jammu
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and now it's spreading to other places.
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So what exactly is happening? First of
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all, the warfare we have seen so far is
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basically air warfare. The air forces
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are fighting. The air powers of the two
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country are fighting. There is a lot of
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shelling you will say in Punch and other
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areas that is static. The real action is
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with the is with the air forces. What
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are the air forces doing now? After the
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strikes by Indian air force which were
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effective which hit all the targets we
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saw we saw the pictures since then the
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two air forces are measuring each
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other's strength and also figuring out
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each other's weaknesses. It's a bit like
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two boxers doing their initial sparring.
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That's what's going on right now. And
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the effort on both parts but it started
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with with Pakistan air force is to carry
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out suppression of air defense or what
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is called seed or suppression of enemy
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air defense. India the first day as we
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explained to you yesterday in cut the
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clutter went out without doing it
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because that was necessary to maintain
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surprise. The Pakistanis have no such
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issues about surprise that kind of
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surprise anymore. They will be surprised
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at a tactical level that they will look
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for but they know that India will
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presume that they will come and they
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will launch some kind of a counters. So
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they are one trying to figure out
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India's frequencies to to to jam them if
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possible or to damage some of India's
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air defense infrastructure. Now these
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days when you say air warfare and for
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three nights you haven't seen any
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aircraft flying. Air warfare now is not
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planes going like like this, right? Air
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warfare for the planes is all beyond
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visual range. You will see very little.
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Air warfare, however, begins on the
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ground. So, what happens on the ground
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that is your your ability, your
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infrastructure to track enemy aircraft,
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guide your own aircraft, help your
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missiles with with with targeting, all
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of that is critical to air power. So air
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power now has very clear dimensions
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which are completely interlin. They are
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as interlin as as the as your upper arm
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with your with your forearm. It's it's
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as as interlin as that. The fight right
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now is over your air defenses. Pakistan
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has carried out these attacks. India has
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put in counters. Indian spokespersons
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also claimed today that after Pakistan's
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efforts to to probe our air defenses
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last night through many hours India put
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in a counter and disabled one Pakistani
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air defense system. India had also
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claimed that yesterday early morning
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they had used a bunch of Harop drones,
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Israeli drones to attack Pakistani air
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defense infra infrastructure because the
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previous night the Pakistanis had tried
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to do the same thing and that's when
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India claimed that a Chinese missile
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system was taken out in Lahore. That is
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that is the that is the basic detail and
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preamble I have. I will soon be joined
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by SNH Alex Phillip. Everybody's busy in
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our newsroom these days. So he's busy.
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He's finishing what he's working on and
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he'll be joining in with me to explain
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to you the many dimensions of this air
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defense. The many levels there that
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there there is extremely close then
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close then medium range then long range
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etc etc. And all of these have their own
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acronyms and their own terminology. Both
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sides have a lot of this and that is
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what we'll be hearing more and more
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about if this continues because it
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doesn't look like right now that there's
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an offramp in fact preparing for this
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because while we want peace to descend
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as quickly as possible but who knows
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this may this may carry on for some time
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and who knows for how long because
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usually in these matters particularly
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when there is no statesmanly leader at
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least on one side then things can
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continue to spin out of control or at
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least you can keep going up the
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escalation ladder. That's where we seem
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to be going right now. That's the reason
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we have also I'm sorry to use that
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expression but that that's an expression
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in this in this period that becomes more
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relevant. Although these are just
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journalists not soldiers. We are
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deploying we are deploying or we are
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assigning a bunch of our very fine
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reporters and camera people all across
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the border district. So I will read out
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the names for you and you will see the
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pictures. Prain Jan all of you know him.
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He's our photo editor, national photo
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editor. Sajid Ali Mir from our video
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section he's in shinagar right now.
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Pravin Jan is in shinagar right now.
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Sharon Puana who's usually our Bangalore
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bureau chief. He is in Aknur which is
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seeing a lot of shelling and tension.
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Sagria Kisu our reporter is in Punch
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Punch Surot area which is under the
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heaviest shelling. So Sagria Kisu and
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Surin Singh Bish the photographer are
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there together. Good luck to them and
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very brave of them. Fantastic job young
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people. Nutan Sharma. Nutan Sharma is in
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Bhuj. Bhj also saw attacks the previous
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night and I suspect we'll continue to
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see attacks. Bhuj is very close to the
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border with Pakistan. Nutan Sharma is in
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Bhuj. Manisha Mandal is in Rajcot. All
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of these people will not stay put where
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they are. They'll move in and around
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these places depending on where they are
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needed. So Manisha Mundal is in Rajcot.
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Mayangumar is in
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Amritsur. Bismaskin is in Batinda and
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Krishna Murari is located in Jotthur.
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but will keep on moving in and out of
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Japur to wherever action takes in. So
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this is the team we've now got in the
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field or on the ground and if things get
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worse though I hope not but if this gets
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more complicated we will put more of the
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more of our reporters on the ground. We
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will bring you accurate reports from the
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ground. Not any of the fanciful
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thinking, rumor mongering,
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sensationalizing. That is not our style.
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Nor is that the definition of journalism
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that we understand. And we know that all
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our minds are these days assailed by
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rumors, lies, fantasy, fabrications,
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madeup stories. Sometimes also by people
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who don't who don't mean very well by
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our country. That's why we bring you
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this series of stories. This this entire
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coverage is going to be called the print
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ground truth. The print ground truth. So
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please keep an eye out for the hashtag
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the print ground truth. And to make
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sense of all of this and once again to
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filter out all that is inaccurate, all
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that is exaggerated, all that is
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deliberately confusion spreading.
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Sometimes we will give you another daily
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show called pure facts that will be
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presented by Ana Bhardwaj who heads our
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internal security coverage. So she'll be
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here and since all of you know our
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defense editors Nesh Alex Phillips so
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well he will be overseeing our coverage
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generally overseeing our coverage based
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in Delhi in our in our newsroom and the
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overall charge will be with Nishi topad
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our editor operation. Now it's not cheap
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to carry out such an exercise to send
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out so many people besides the expense
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of travel etc. We also had to because we
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want our people safe at least as safe as
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we can make them. We've we've had to
00:08:06
acquire for them bulletproof vests and
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helmets that is the that's the minimum
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we can do for them. It's cost a lot of
00:08:14
money something some something in the
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range of 15 lakh rupees. All of that
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stuff needs help from people like you.
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Just 15 lakhs have been have been spent
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to provide basic protection to these
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brave journalists. All the other
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expenses apart. So please do take a
00:08:30
subscription a paid subscription. It is
00:08:32
500 rupees a month but you can top it
00:08:35
up. You can make it as much as you wish.
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Remember that we need to raise something
00:08:40
like 20 lakhs. This 15 lakhs worth of
00:08:43
protective equipment which is an
00:08:44
additional expense. Another about 10
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lakh rupees of travel expenses. That is
00:08:49
not knowing how long this will last. So
00:08:51
this is also a fundraising appeal. This
00:08:54
is not just a normal subscription
00:08:56
appeal. It's a fundraising appeal. You
00:08:59
want good journalism. You put your
00:09:01
wallet where your heart is. Then you
00:09:03
will get good journalism. We might still
00:09:06
give it to you but our ability to
00:09:08
sustain this also will be limited. So
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with that now I call in snesh Alex
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Phillip the best you can get in the
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business to answer questions from me and
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to make sense to all of us of what's
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going onish action is on and you can say
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that this is probably or likely prelude
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to larger air warfare. So what exactly
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is going on now? See right now this is
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for the third consecutive night that the
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Pakistanis have launched um you know
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multiple drones as it was announced
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today at the press conference that was
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undertaken by the foreign secretary
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Vikram myri and the two officers uh
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Pakistan last night had launched about
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300 to 400 drones. The difference
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between last night and this tonight is
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the fact that last night uh what they
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had launched were you know predominantly
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Turkish drones but the non-armed ones uh
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this time that they have launched is uh
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what at least this is again you know um
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I'll put in a disclaimer are groundbased
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reports yeah I'll put in a disclaimer
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these are based on ground reports that
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are coming in from what the initial
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reports or what the sources are saying
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in the initial uh moment is the fact
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that these are more these are likely to
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be armed drones that has been fired
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right loitering munitions type. So it
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started off from Jammu and now it has
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spread through to multiple locations as
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we speak right now there are information
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coming in
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from also earlier it was just limited to
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Patanort uh and then couple of places in
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Rajasthan too. So again, so similarly I
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think this is this would end up being a
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long night because the information is
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that it's much more Yeah. And and and
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how do you stop these? See u that's
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interesting part. So on the first day
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when uh when the Pakistanis tried to hit
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uh the multiple air force stations
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military locations at that time uh the
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air force because it was the air force
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stations were under attack uh the both
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the air defense systems of both the air
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force and the army were active. So for
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example everybody talks about the S400
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S400 is that of the Indian air force. it
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is not operated by the army. So the
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first day when uh when it happened uh
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there were multiple units of both the
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army air defense as well as of the air
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force air defense which got into action
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because it looks like on the first day
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they also teased us with some fighter
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aircraft. Yes. And they were fired at uh
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they were fired at and uh so those were
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fired at by the S400 air defense system.
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That's why the long range missiles were
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used the u and when I say long range
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missiles the S400 uh saw action for the
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first time the S400 of under the Indian
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Air Force saw action for the first time
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but after that the next night etc until
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now that hasn't been used because
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Pakistanis are just sending in these low
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value drones. Yeah. So these low value
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drones have been sent which are being
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taken on by army air defense units
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interestingly by both modern systems as
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well as by systems which are of the
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1960s vintage. Yeah. And and those
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include the original buffers of Indian
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army. Well the original buffers of the
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Indian army you're right because it's it
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was manufactured by the Swedish firm
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buffers. Yeah. Those are the L70 guns.
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If you have any recollections or if
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you've seen any films or any pictures of
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the 65 war or 71 war that was the main
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anti-aircraft weapon because those two
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wars took place in the pre-missile era
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71 there were some missiles but very few
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so that was in the pre-missile era and
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these L70 guns then fire had a very high
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rate of fire and they fired what is
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called as flak right those guns have
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been modified yes the L7 7 naturally
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over the years have undergone
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modernization. For example, now it's
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modernized with uh radar, electrooptical
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sensors and autotracking system which
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means that uh it is able to horn in on
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the target and and u and continue firing
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at it, track it. Yeah. So when when you
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see this swarm of drones or loitering
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munitions, then the same gun once again
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can put out a lot of big volume of fire.
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It has a it has a really uh high rate of
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fire. Uh I don't want to get into the
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specifications of it. We'll of course do
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a story once everything is over. You
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know, it's it's already available on the
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on the open net. Uh but it has a high
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rate of fire as well as it can cover a
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very good distance in air, right? And
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then you of course have the the army air
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defense also has the another uh the
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Russian or the Soviet Union era vintage
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the
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ZU23 guns. Yes. Those are the ones you
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see that come up on the rooftops of tall
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buildings on 26th January 15th of
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August. Those are also targeting drones
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and and other objects like that. Yeah.
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So the so uh you know those fire two
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kinds of runs. One is the AP two those
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fire two types of rounds. One is the AP
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round which is the armorpiercing round
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and then is the HE which is the high
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explosive uh round. So uh so the images
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that you see on the screen when a drone
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is being
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fired by Pakistan and the red flashes
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those are the traces of these very same
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guns. Yeah. So explain for all of us the
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various levels of air defense because
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air defense is thing in news now and you
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will be watching a lot of it. Whatever
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happens next will follow this round.
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Absolutely. Uh so air defense has
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changed over the years right uh at at at
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this particular moment uh as we speak
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right now India has air defense starting
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from handheld to the to the u S400s
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handheld is not man pads just explain
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handheld is what you have in your hand a
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bit like bit like the kind of thing you
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use to spray something yeah so this is
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the handheld are basically jamming and
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spoofing devices which uh the Indian
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Navy was the first to procure it. Uh it
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was procured through an Israeli it's an
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Israeli company which makes it and now
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there are several Indian companies
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manufacturing it. So the services are
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bought them. It looks like a gun but it
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is used to take down drones you know. So
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now air defense also would mean drones.
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So that is a minimum that you start
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with. Then you have the man pads which
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are there which is man pads man
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portable anti-aircraft defense devices.
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Yeah, the air defense system that is the
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man parts man pads and then you have the
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visor arts which is very short
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range missile air defense missile system
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and then from uh visharats you go to the
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short range ones right for example SR
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SAM yeah the SR SAM so for example we
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have the indigenous Akash air defense
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system you know it it is a it is a short
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range
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one and it is able to take out target
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and take brought multiple uh multiple
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enemy uh aerial targets. For example,
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the Akash was also used uh by the Indian
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armed forces to take out the incoming
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drones uh and other
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projectiles over the last 3 days. Akash
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is about give and take minimum is about
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25 km. Then from uh SR SAM you move to
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the MR SAM. Now that's medium range.
00:16:48
Yeah, that's a medium range, right? Uh
00:16:50
so a medium range would in would be
00:16:53
about you know around somewhere around
00:16:55
70 km whatever. So where and then we
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have the MR SAM which is the medium
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range uh air defense systems. The SAM is
00:17:04
surfaceto-air missiles all of you know.
00:17:06
Yeah. And uh the uh the MR SAMs are
00:17:09
basically the Barak 8. The Navy earlier
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used to call it the LR SAM. You know it
00:17:15
was installed on ships the long range.
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But what is long range for the navy air
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defense is short range as far as the air
00:17:23
force is concerned. Right? So eventually
00:17:25
it was it was decided to have a common
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nominal culture of calling the barracket
00:17:30
as MR SAMS. So MR SAMS has now been uh
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deployed and is now been inducted by all
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the three services right and then you
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move to the long range one. In the long
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range one is only the air force asset
00:17:43
which is the S400. And as you all know
00:17:45
the S400 can um can track targets which
00:17:49
are about 600 km away and can easily
00:17:52
take out uh targets depending on what
00:17:55
missile has been fired up to 400 km. So
00:17:58
that is something which is there and
00:18:00
then is the eventual many countries
00:18:02
would have is the BMD which is a
00:18:04
ballistic missile defense uh shield. So
00:18:07
that's a that's a different kind of um
00:18:10
air defense that you're talking about.
00:18:12
Yeah, that's what Israelis and the
00:18:14
Americans have been using in the Gulf
00:18:15
lately because Houthis are firing so
00:18:18
many ballistic missiles. Exactly. Now of
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the really short range manportable ones.
00:18:24
These are very old but very effective
00:18:25
particularly against drones and as the
00:18:28
last defense for for missiles which get
00:18:32
through your system. Those are
00:18:34
Tangushkas,
00:18:37
iglas. Just tell us a little bit about
00:18:39
those as well. See you know IGLA there
00:18:42
are two two variants of IGLA depending
00:18:44
on uh depending on the uh the distance
00:18:47
that the missile can work with. So these
00:18:50
are Russian. Yeah these are Russians and
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they come under the very shorten the
00:18:54
visor arts uh system. So incidentally um
00:18:58
you know uh India Indian army was trying
00:19:00
to uh to get modern visual arts for a uh
00:19:04
for quite some years. Now the army has
00:19:07
come out with an RFI for through the
00:19:09
indigenous route to get. So that is
00:19:12
something which is in contention. Uh so
00:19:14
those are the short range ones and we
00:19:17
have quite a network of these. There is
00:19:18
also the Israeli spider system. Yes. Spy
00:19:22
not spi not not not maki sp yde. Yeah.
00:19:26
So uh so you know a spider again belongs
00:19:30
to the air force right. uh then uh so
00:19:32
depending on what missile is fired from
00:19:34
it. You file a derby what uh different
00:19:36
kinds of missiles that can be fired
00:19:38
eventually all of these systems is of
00:19:40
the air force is integrated into the
00:19:42
IACCS which is known as the integrated
00:19:45
air command and control system. Now uh
00:19:49
under u under the uh whole uh initiative
00:19:53
towards jointmanship you have the army's
00:19:56
air defenses and the air force air
00:19:59
defense has been integrated. Army has a
00:20:02
separate program for the air defense
00:20:03
which is the uh akasht air defense
00:20:06
system. So now the akasht is been is
00:20:09
been is been married with uh the IA
00:20:12
IACCS. So the base base of all of
00:20:15
Pakistan's air defenses is Chinese. Yes.
00:20:18
And the primary air defense system that
00:20:21
the Chinese are using using is the HQ9
00:20:24
Bravo HQ9B. So that is an air defense
00:20:27
system that they have uh that they have
00:20:29
deployed at multiple locations. But uh
00:20:32
as you would have seen u and ever since
00:20:36
this conflict has started the social
00:20:38
media is a buzz with uh articles and
00:20:41
opinions about how good the uh system
00:20:44
is. Uh right because given the fact that
00:20:47
Indian drones managed to reach Lahore
00:20:50
and this is something and this
00:20:51
particular conflict is something that
00:20:52
even the western world is also observing
00:20:54
very closely because Pakistan is using a
00:20:56
lot of Chinese equipment. But I presume
00:20:59
the Pakistanis also similarly have
00:21:01
multiple levels of air defenses. The
00:21:04
Pakistanis do have multiple level levels
00:21:06
of air defenses but not to the extent
00:21:09
that India really has right. Uh so most
00:21:13
of their air defenses systems are
00:21:14
located towards uh the LC side and
00:21:17
towards the border areas. So even when
00:21:20
the uh even when the Balacord uh attacks
00:21:23
took place in 2019 at that time also
00:21:26
Indian Air Force was had managed to
00:21:28
evade uh you know the the Pakistani air
00:21:31
defense systems. So that is something
00:21:33
which is there but uh so vizavi India
00:21:36
and Pakistan I think in terms of air
00:21:39
defense uh India is doing much better it
00:21:41
has a it has a larger multi-led air
00:21:44
defense systems compared to that of
00:21:46
Pakistan. Yeah, but Pakistan also would
00:21:48
have filled those gaps learning from
00:21:50
Balakot. Absolutely, they have filled an
00:21:52
embarrassment for them. They have filled
00:21:54
those gaps with having more of these
00:21:56
Chinese equipment. But the problem with
00:21:58
Pakistan is that no other country is
00:22:00
willing to give uh air defenses to
00:22:02
Pakistan and right now Pakistan is
00:22:05
heavily dependent on China and then for
00:22:07
Turkey for their defense equipment.
00:22:10
Yeah. So uh sn I read that this border
00:22:14
between India and Pakistan say rat cliff
00:22:16
flying probably has the most
00:22:19
concentrated air defenses on both sides
00:22:22
because even if you look at America
00:22:24
America as Trump says has we have two
00:22:27
beautiful oceans right and there's
00:22:28
Canada on the other side no problem ally
00:22:31
this place two very active and strong
00:22:33
air forces and history of conflict and
00:22:36
and a history of a situation where a
00:22:38
conflict can break out anytime. Yeah.
00:22:40
And any conflict, air forces are the
00:22:43
first to get off the ground. So where
00:22:46
does where does this action stand now
00:22:48
and where do you see it going? See India
00:22:51
I think has made it very clear and
00:22:53
through the press conference by the
00:22:55
foreign secretary yesterday and even
00:22:56
today that the ball is in Pakistan's
00:22:59
court as far as uh the escalation ladder
00:23:02
is concerned. Right. India has made it
00:23:04
clear that it is responding in kind or
00:23:08
in the same caliber as what the
00:23:10
Pakistani military is doing. But
00:23:12
interestingly as we speak the
00:23:15
information has come in the ISPDG
00:23:18
held briefing a press conference which
00:23:21
was directed at the foreign media. So a
00:23:23
lot of foreign media journalists were
00:23:24
invited and the ISPR DG and I'll quote
00:23:28
um and he says the ISP DG we will not
00:23:31
deescalate with the damages India did on
00:23:34
our side they should take a hit. So far
00:23:38
we have been protecting ourselves but
00:23:40
they will get an answer in our own
00:23:43
timing. Yeah, at least that one is one
00:23:47
big shift on the Pakistani side and that
00:23:49
has happened this time because pictures
00:23:51
were available. That was the difference.
00:23:53
So you're talking about them accepting
00:23:55
damages. Yes, accepting damages. They
00:23:59
haven't in fact Pakistani spokesperson
00:24:02
also accepted the damage to the to the
00:24:05
air defense system in Lahore yesterday
00:24:08
morning. So that's a new thing for
00:24:09
Pakistan which means they're really
00:24:12
hurting.
00:24:13
they are really hurting and and that is
00:24:15
the reason why I feel that all of these
00:24:19
drones that have been sent in are still
00:24:21
are exploratory in nature. What I mean
00:24:24
by exploratory is the fact that they
00:24:26
know that the air defense system of
00:24:29
India, the air defense network of India
00:24:31
is very strong. They also know that
00:24:33
because of this heightened tensions,
00:24:36
we've moved around uh air defense
00:24:39
systems, right? Locations have changed.
00:24:41
So they are now and this is what uh this
00:24:44
is what the foreign secretary also said.
00:24:46
So this is just not my assumption at his
00:24:48
press conference. At his press
00:24:49
conference today uh that the Pakistanis
00:24:52
are trying to understand or gather
00:24:56
intelligence of where our air defense
00:24:59
systems are and what kind of air
00:25:01
defenses systems are located where. So
00:25:04
which means the only reason why they
00:25:06
would you know they would carry out such
00:25:09
an exercise is only when they're
00:25:11
planning uh to hit on a larger scale and
00:25:16
and when I say hit I think they're
00:25:18
likely to use their air force to do so.
00:25:20
So whatever the ISBIG has said today
00:25:23
falls in line with what India has been
00:25:27
thinking that the these attacks or these
00:25:30
these these drone operations are more
00:25:33
exploratory in nature and Pakistan could
00:25:36
be planning a large a larger uh scale of
00:25:41
attack. So sn we conclude by saying stay
00:25:44
strong India you've got what it takes to
00:25:46
deal with this menace now. Absolutely.
00:25:50
You know, I think I think the number of
00:25:52
instructions have been given out by the
00:25:55
administration, by the military. Follow
00:25:57
the uh follow the protocols that that
00:25:59
would be there whenever you hear a siren
00:26:01
or a blackout that is there. But uh be
00:26:05
confident and uh don't fair. Yeah. And
00:26:08
the other thing is other thing is never
00:26:11
post any information. I know everybody
00:26:13
wants to make reals now. I saw in Jammu
00:26:16
people making ress and doing commentary
00:26:18
for Instagram. Remember this is the era
00:26:21
of computerized telemetry. Somebody on
00:26:23
the other side is also watching this in
00:26:25
real time and can calculate many things
00:26:28
about pace etc. So please don't do it. I
00:26:32
know in this era of Instagram everybody
00:26:34
wants to make ress and get and get
00:26:36
engagement but not like this not at this
00:26:39
cost and not at this risk. And I will
00:26:41
tell you a story something that the
00:26:43
Israelis told us in the first Gulf War
00:26:45
of 1991 Iraq fired Scud missiles at
00:26:49
Israel Saddam Hussein's Iraq and that's
00:26:51
when the Americans had transferred
00:26:52
patriots to Israel and those patriots
00:26:55
were stopping the scuts but the oddman
00:26:57
still got through. So there was buns cut
00:26:59
missile that fell someplace and some
00:27:01
foreign journalists said, "Oh, missile
00:27:03
fell there." Obviously they were trying
00:27:05
to aim at the Mossad headquarters, but
00:27:09
the missile fell half a mile away or a
00:27:12
mile away. At the press conference that
00:27:14
day, the Israeli armed forces
00:27:16
spokesperson, this was in the basement
00:27:17
of the Hilton in in Tel Aviv, he said,
00:27:20
"One of you wrote this. Please don't do
00:27:22
this because you are helping the other
00:27:24
side, right? You are not saying the
00:27:26
other side is stupid because the other
00:27:28
side is not stupid by saying this that
00:27:30
they missed an important target by this
00:27:33
much distance. You are helping the other
00:27:35
side. And then he said in the typical
00:27:37
Israeli fashion that all of your
00:27:39
journalists, we respect you and we like
00:27:41
you. We want you safe. We want you to
00:27:43
write headlines. We don't want you to be
00:27:46
mentioned in headlines. So please
00:27:48
remember that caution. Don't don't be
00:27:50
don't be trigger happy on your phones
00:27:54
and your devices. This is not the time
00:27:56
to become social media stars at this
00:27:59
point. Stay back. Do everything that
00:28:01
you're being told to do. All the
00:28:03
instructions from civil defense, other
00:28:05
other organ organizations and wish your
00:28:08
forces the best.
00:28:13
[Music]
00:28:14
[Applause]
00:28:15
[Music]
