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all right let's go deeper into the
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mitochondria piece talk about what they
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are where they are and then specifically
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what happens when they become
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overwhelmed and they start to break
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mitochondria are these tiny things in
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our cells um that most people know of as
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kind of the powerhouse of the cell and
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what that means is that they take food
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and oxygen and convert it into energy
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it's in the form of ATP which is kind of
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the energy currency of a cell so that's
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kind of the high school version of
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mitochondria high school biology class
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they're powerhouses of the cell they
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take food and oxygen and turn it into
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ATP there is no doubt that they do that
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but in fact they do so so much more um
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there are actually mitochondria are
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actually enormously
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complicated um
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they were actually foundational to the
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beginning of multi-ellular life um uh
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ukareotic life um which is essentially
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all of the life forms that we can see
00:01:17
with our eyes plants animals other
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things any living thing that you can see
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with your eyes is a multi-ellular
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um living organism and uh and its
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existence really depended on
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mitochondria at one point or another um
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so what else do mitochondria do
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mitochondria do so much more so they
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actually control the synthesis of stress
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hormones cortisol estrogen testosterone
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other kinds of hormones they help
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regulate neurotransmitter production and
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release and
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regulation they help control
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inflammation turning it both on and off
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they help control the expression of
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genes from the cell nucleus so they are
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epigenetic regulators i could go on and
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on with their list of functions so they
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do all of these
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things and when mitochondria are
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producing energy when they are revved up
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um the process by which they make
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ATP involves the flow of electrons and
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um and these electrons are actually you
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can think about them kind of like you
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know like an acidic kind of thing it's
00:02:39
kind of if it if it gets out of where
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it's if it leaks out it it could be a
00:02:44
little damaging and that is exactly what
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happens when these electrons leak out of
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the usual process
00:02:52
it it creates what's called reactive
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oxygen species and these react ROS and
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somebody this is oxidative stress and
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this is what all the antioxidants are
00:03:05
all the rage for vitamin C vitamin E
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other blueberries everybody says get
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your antioxidants why do you want
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antioxidants it's to mitigate this
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oxidative
00:03:17
stress and um and so when mitochondria
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are being hyper
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stimulated in the example of a traumatic
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or stressful situation again if it goes
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on for a prolonged period of time when
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it's short-lived we all the the system
00:03:36
is great the system is highly regulated
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it's highly adaptive it helps us survive
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it helps us fight and flee it helps us
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do everything we need to do so I'm not
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at all dissing the system the system
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helps helps us survive but when it goes
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on for a prolonged period of time the
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mitochondria are just turning turning
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turning electrons begin to leak that
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creates oxidative stress and that means
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that that oxidative stress because
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they're right there they're the first
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kind of victim of high levels of
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oxidative stress um that that oxidative
00:04:15
stress or acid if you think of it that
00:04:17
way can actually begin to damage the
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mitochondria
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themselves it can also damage other
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parts of the cell so high levels of
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oxidative stress can damage any part of
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the cell if it gets far enough but again
00:04:31
because it's being produced right there
00:04:34
mitochondria are most vulnerable to th
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that effect and then if they become
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damaged
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um then the cell can become disregulated
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if you will and or the cell can become
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damaged if you will in that in so far as
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some of its parts the mitochondria are
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now damaged and this is a term usually
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called mitochondrial dysfunction
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um and so I know that's a lot of cell
00:05:07
biology and I know it probably sounds
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like really pointless trivial stuff and
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crap but just
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understanding that
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alone will help us develop better
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treatments for mental
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illnesses all the way from mild anxiety
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ADHD depression to crippling
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schizophrenia bipolar disorder and other
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disorders okay just to make sure I have
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this right mitochondria become
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overwhelmed they create this ROS which
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damages
00:05:46
themselves i just want to make the
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connection between the trauma and the
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breaking of the
00:05:53
mitochondria how are those specifically
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connected or do we know at this point we
00:05:58
do know so again the when you have high
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levels of
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trauma you get high levels of
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cortisol and we know that cortisol alone
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so like researchers just recently in the
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last couple years did some studies where
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they put mitochondria in a petri dish
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and they just saw them churning out ATP
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doing their thing going along and they
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squirted a little bit of cortisol in and
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they started hyper for producing ATP so
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it means that you're revving up the
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engine the cortisol is revving up the
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engine and again we want that this is a
00:06:38
good thing because it gives us energy to
00:06:41
fight and flee and it will it will
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stimulate processes that then result in
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higher levels of glucose so that because
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we need that glucose to go run we need
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to run from what whoever is traumatizing
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us and uh and so we need that glucose we
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need the higher heart rate we need the
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higher blood pressure these are all good
00:07:04
adaptive things in the
00:07:06
moment but when it goes on for a
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prolonged period of time that's where
00:07:12
this reactive oxygen species comes in
00:07:15
now you you you're hyper stimulating
00:07:17
these mitochondria they're running on
00:07:19
overtime they're trying their best to
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keep up but electrons start leaking out
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they're still being told "Keep going
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keep going don't slow down don't recover
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don't Don't try to repair yourselves
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don't Don't stop we We We're We're
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fighting for our life we are fighting
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for our life you've got to keep going
00:07:38
keep pushing keep pushing keep pushing."
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And the mitochondria are doing their
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thing they're trying to save our lives
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they're try they're trying to put do
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their share
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and but but they start getting exhausted
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so to speak if if if you will like I
00:07:55
forgive the you know the scientists will
00:07:57
will recoil at these kind of analogies
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and euphemisms and other things I'm
00:08:02
using but but I'm trying to make this
00:08:04
understandable and that is really
00:08:06
understandable think of mitochondria as
00:08:08
an engine you're revving the engine
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you're revving it you're revving it too
00:08:12
hard you're pushing it too hard you're
00:08:15
not giving it a chance to recover you're
00:08:17
not giving it a chance to cool
00:08:19
down and acid starts leaking out and now
00:08:23
the acid is now damaging the very engine
00:08:26
that's trying to save your life and that
00:08:29
is again when it comes to mitochondria
00:08:32
we can loosely refer to it as
00:08:33
mitochondrial dysfunction and now the
00:08:36
very engines that are trying to save us
00:08:39
trying to give us enough energy to fight
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for our lives are becoming damaged and
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disregulated
00:08:45
okay we're going to eventually connect
00:08:47
this to the brain but just to recap what
00:08:49
you said there I finally have the
00:08:51
connection we have the trauma cortisol
00:08:54
leads to the overactive mitochondria ros
00:08:58
damaging the
00:08:59
mitochondria so that's the trauma piece
00:09:02
but let's talk about some of the other
00:09:05
pillars that lead to this damage to the
00:09:09
mitochondria and then again we'll move
00:09:11
into what that means in the brain
00:09:14
okay the unfortunate news is that there
00:09:18
are lots of biological psychological and
00:09:22
social factors that play a role in
00:09:25
mitochondrial function or metabolism
00:09:29
so the some of the basic ones are diet
00:09:33
or nutrition but this includes vitamin
00:09:36
deficiencies nutrient deficiencies can
00:09:39
because mitochondria need vi a lot of
00:09:42
the vitamins and nutrients that we've
00:09:44
heard of are actually critical to
00:09:47
mitochondrial function it's actually
00:09:50
mind-boggling how much of what we
00:09:53
consume flows through mitochondria
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the calories that we're consuming are
00:09:58
all flowing for the most part most of
00:10:00
them I shouldn't say all most of them
00:10:03
are flowing through mitochondria
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um the so that means all the different
00:10:09
nutrients the carbohydrates the protein
00:10:13
the fats they're flowing through
00:10:15
mitochondria
00:10:17
um the
00:10:19
uh but a lot of the vitamins um vitamin
00:10:23
B12 folate uh other things are required
00:10:28
they are required for mitochondrial
00:10:30
function
00:10:34
um exercise directly impacts
00:10:37
mitochondrial function sleep directly
00:10:41
impacts mitochondrial function sleep
00:10:43
does a lot more than that and obviously
00:10:45
all of these things do more than just
00:10:48
specific to mitochondria but
00:10:50
mitochondria are actually kind of the
00:10:52
unifying link of biological
00:10:54
psychological and social factors
00:10:58
um light exposure circadian rhythms drug
00:11:02
and alcohol use toxin exposure whether
00:11:06
it's microlastics whether it's arsenic
00:11:09
or
00:11:10
cyanide all of these are mitochondrial
00:11:15
toxins and so a wide range of things
00:11:19
infections it's probably important to
00:11:21
mention infections because that gets
00:11:23
into like how would long COVID cause a
00:11:27
mental illness a lot of people would
00:11:28
think well that has nothing to do with
00:11:30
metabolism and what I would say is that
00:11:32
has everything to do with metabolism
00:11:35
that the infection
00:11:37
itself is causing mitochondrial
00:11:40
dysfunction
00:11:41
and that is why people that's why some
00:11:44
people who don't get the mitochondrial
00:11:46
dysfunction can fight off an infection
00:11:49
and live happily ever after and never
00:11:51
have any serious symptoms of a mental
00:11:53
illness but people who maybe are
00:11:56
vulnerable maybe because of childhood
00:11:58
trauma or a poor diet or some other
00:12:01
things people who are vulnerable they
00:12:04
get an infection with COVID for example
00:12:08
and they might get pushed over the edge
00:12:10
they might get pushed over the edge with
00:12:13
mitochondrial dysfunction because their
00:12:14
mitochondria are kind of a little
00:12:16
vulnerable anyway and now there's yet
00:12:19
another assault on them and that pushes
00:12:22
people over the
00:12:24
edge and then unfortunately even after
00:12:27
you've fought off the
00:12:29
virus you may have symptoms for months
00:12:33
or sometimes years later
00:12:37
um and we we kind of talked about stress
00:12:41
trauma there are lots of other
00:12:42
psychological social factors that
00:12:46
influence it but the easiest way to
00:12:49
think about most of the psychological
00:12:51
and social factors is through stress
00:12:53
pathways and trauma pathways that it
00:12:57
they all converge in that way but it's
00:13:00
all of the usual things so if you're
00:13:02
being bullied and teased relentlessly on
00:13:04
the playground yes that's stress or
00:13:06
trauma if you're lonely nobody pays
00:13:10
attention to you that is traumatic or
00:13:13
stressful for a lot of people um and and
00:13:16
on and on and on
00:13:18
so yeah okay i can see how stress trauma
00:13:24
acts on the mitochondria you brought in
00:13:27
nutrient deficiencies and how we need
00:13:28
certain nutrients for those to work
00:13:31
properly when it comes to the other
00:13:33
factors how many of those relate to the
00:13:36
ROS and the damaging of the micro
00:13:39
mitochondria that way you know
00:13:44
ultimately it's a really that's a good
00:13:47
question i think most of the scientists
00:13:51
who think about mitochondrial
00:13:54
dysfunction think about it in terms of
00:13:57
ROS and oxidative stress
00:14:01
um but in fact as I said earlier
00:14:05
mitochondria are extraordinarily
00:14:07
complicated and they do so much more
00:14:10
than just create energy and they do so
00:14:12
much more than just flow electrons
00:14:16
they actually are going around cells and
00:14:20
again sending they they are one of the
00:14:23
primary regulators of calcium in cells
00:14:26
for example and that's a really
00:14:27
important cell signal um they're primary
00:14:32
regulators of inflammation they are
00:14:34
regulating gene expression and all of
00:14:37
those things are happening through a lot
00:14:39
of complex different mechanisms and
00:14:42
pathways
00:14:44
mitochondria
00:14:46
fascinatingly mitochondria can change
00:14:49
their shape you know usually when you
00:14:51
see them you see them as a little oval
00:14:53
like a bean-shaped organal or something
00:14:55
and but they actually can become like
00:14:59
long strings almost they can fuse with
00:15:03
each other they can actually form
00:15:05
complex networks take different shapes
00:15:09
and stuff and although that may seem
00:15:11
random
00:15:14
shockingly the different shapes that
00:15:17
they take at different times during cell
00:15:20
development
00:15:22
actually directly influence which genes
00:15:25
get expressed and that ultimately
00:15:28
influences what that cell becomes so
00:15:31
mitochondria play a role in neurode
00:15:33
development is what I'm saying and
00:15:35
development of other cells all cells um
00:15:39
but they are playing a so
00:15:42
so we know that all those factors those
00:15:45
biocschosocial factors are
00:15:48
influencing mitochondria we know that
00:15:51
they are influencing metabolism and
00:15:54
mental
00:15:55
health but precise the precise
00:15:57
mechanisms like is it all ROS we really
00:16:02
actually don't know and I suspect it is
00:16:04
not at all as simple as just ROS
00:16:08
that it's actually probably some of
00:16:10
these other complex mechanisms that like
00:16:13
when you do this to mitochondria it
00:16:15
changes the gene expression in the cell
00:16:17
and when you do that to mitochondria it
00:16:19
does something different
00:16:21
um at the end of the
00:16:26
day there's this like big complicated
00:16:29
black box so to speak like okay so
00:16:31
you're saying
00:16:32
biocschosocial affects metabolism and
00:16:35
mitochondria and that's kind of this
00:16:37
complicated black box in a way if you
00:16:39
will
00:16:41
we actually don't need to know the
00:16:43
details of that complicated black box
00:16:45
because the
00:16:47
solutions don't require us to understand
00:16:50
the details of that the solutions
00:16:53
sometimes again can be
00:16:56
counterintuitive can be paradoxical even
00:17:00
but the
00:17:01
solutions can help people heal and
00:17:03
recover and we can help people reset
00:17:06
their mitochondrial health or reset
00:17:08
their metabolic health by some basic
00:17:13
strategies and that can help people with
00:17:16
mental
00:17:18
illnesses if you enjoyed that clip
00:17:20
you're going to want to head over here
00:17:21
and catch the full episode i'll see you
00:17:23
over there there is zero doubt in my
00:17:26
mind as a clinician who works with
00:17:28
people with treatment resistant mental
00:17:30
illnesses that ketogenic diets can be
00:17:32
life-changing for some people the very
00:17:35
first signs of Parkinson's disease
