Financial Freedom in 2025 (No Money Strategy)

00:30:37
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fTBWjDicUM

Ringkasan

TLDRKen Mroy, a real estate advisor and successful investor, outlines his journey from a modest background to building a $2 billion real estate empire. He debunks the myth that starting in real estate requires capital, emphasizing the importance of education, understanding the market, and using strategic financing methods to leverage OPM (Other People's Money). Ken suggests that aspiring investors focus on properties that generate cash flow, rather than merely seeking capital gains. He shares insights into his first investments, lessons learned, and strategies for success, including the significance of thorough market analysis and proactive property management. Ultimately, Ken's approach advocates for consistent learning and practical application of real estate principles as pathways to financial freedom and long-term success.

Takeaways

  • 💼 Start with education to understand real estate.
  • 🏠 Focus on cash flow rather than capital gains.
  • 🔍 Analyze the market before choosing properties.
  • 🔑 Leverage OPM (Other People's Money) for investments.
  • 📈 Seek long-term financial freedom through real estate.
  • ⚠️ Watch for red flags like high tenant turnover.
  • 💡 A growth mindset is essential for success.
  • 📊 Understand that deals are driven by numbers.
  • ✨ Every empire begins with a single investment.
  • 📝 The right knowledge can open doors without initial funds.

Garis waktu

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    An overview of how to build a $2 billion real estate empire without needing initial funds, emphasizing that it's more about strategic planning and execution than capital. Ken discusses four essential steps in real estate investment, focusing on the right mindset and common myths in the industry.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Ken shares his personal journey starting from humble beginnings to developing significant real estate assets. He highlights his first investment experience and the lessons learned, including the importance of property management and recognizing cash flow opportunities.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Ken describes shifting from a scarcity mindset to understanding the mathematics of real estate investment. He emphasizes the necessity of educating oneself about deals and proper market analysis as the foundational steps for investing in real estate without initial capital.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    The conversation emphasizes the importance of continuous education in the real estate space: finding the right markets and properties, understanding the numbers, and preparing for future financing options without needing money up front.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Ken elaborates on the appeal of specific types of properties, such as age-restricted communities, which tend to have lower turnover rates and thus result in more stable cash flow. He emphasizes the long-term strategic planning that goes into building a solid investment foundation.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:37

    Lastly, Ken discusses profitability in real estate, the misconceptions surrounding it, along with common pitfalls like floating debt. He insists on leveraging cash flow as a core focus, indicating that understanding financial structures, alongside investing prudently and patiently, is vital for lasting success.

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Video Tanya Jawab

  • Do you need money to start in real estate?

    No, you can start without any money by focusing on education and finding deals.

  • What is the first step to building a real estate empire?

    The first step is education about real estate and understanding how deals work.

  • What strategies did Ken Mroy use to build his empire?

    Ken used strategies like leveraging other people's money and focusing on cash flow instead of capital gains.

  • What was Ken's first investment?

    Ken started with a two-bedroom apartment that cash flowed and eventually learned to manage properties.

  • How does cash flow contribute to real estate investing?

    Cash flow provides passive income, allowing investors to maintain financial stability without relying solely on capital gains.

  • What are red flags to watch for when investing in properties?

    Look for high turnover rates, delinquent tenants, and discrepancies in rent prices.

  • What is OPM in real estate?

    OPM stands for Other People's Money, which can be used as equity or debt to fund deals.

  • What role does education play in real estate investing?

    Education is crucial to understanding the market, analyzing deals, and making informed investment decisions.

  • How important is market selection in real estate?

    Market selection is critical; it often influences the potential success of your investment.

  • What type of mindset is necessary for real estate success?

    A growth mindset, focusing on learning, adapting, and understanding cash flow dynamics.

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Gulir Otomatis:
  • 00:00:00
    How does the average person with no
  • 00:00:01
    funding, safety net, or connections
  • 00:00:03
    build a $2 billion real estate empire?
  • 00:00:06
    Believe it or not, you do not need money
  • 00:00:08
    to get started. What? So, I was just
  • 00:00:10
    trying to pay my way through college. I
  • 00:00:12
    never would have expected it to get me
  • 00:00:14
    here. That's amazing. So, you are Robbie
  • 00:00:16
    Kiyosaki's real estate adviser. Watch as
  • 00:00:19
    Ken reveals four essential steps to
  • 00:00:21
    building a real estate empire. Once you
  • 00:00:23
    have the blueprint, it's just a matter
  • 00:00:25
    of following it. It's the same blueprint
  • 00:00:26
    that I've used for closing over 10,000
  • 00:00:28
    units. Wow. Uncover the biggest myth
  • 00:00:31
    keeping entrepreneurs from a big win.
  • 00:00:34
    Most people that buy real estate treat
  • 00:00:35
    it like a stock. Buy low, sell high. Big
  • 00:00:38
    mistake, really. And how to achieve
  • 00:00:40
    financial freedom during the upcoming
  • 00:00:42
    real estate wave. There's going to be a
  • 00:00:44
    massive opportunity in this industry.
  • 00:00:46
    I've never seen anything like it. But
  • 00:00:48
    none of that matters if I don't have
  • 00:00:49
    money. Sorry if I'm jumping the gun on
  • 00:00:50
    you, but what's the next step? That's
  • 00:00:52
    fair. But you don't need money at this
  • 00:00:53
    point. I've come all the way to Arizona
  • 00:00:55
    to discover how to start a profitable
  • 00:00:57
    real estate business without spending a
  • 00:00:59
    dime of my own.
  • 00:01:02
    All right, Ken, before we dive into the
  • 00:01:05
    backstory of your billiondoll real
  • 00:01:07
    estate empire, tell us a little bit
  • 00:01:09
    about yourself, what you do, where we
  • 00:01:10
    are today, especially for those who
  • 00:01:12
    don't know a little bit about you.
  • 00:01:13
    Probably like a lot of people, I started
  • 00:01:14
    with a two-bedroom, two bath that cash
  • 00:01:16
    flowed, and that was my first
  • 00:01:18
    investment. I used my own money. Then I
  • 00:01:20
    ran out. So, what year was that, by the
  • 00:01:21
    way? Gosh, that was 25 almost 30 years
  • 00:01:24
    ago. So today, where are we? This is a
  • 00:01:26
    property that we built in 2016, 202
  • 00:01:29
    units and uh we leased it up in around
  • 00:01:31
    2019 and that's when we did our first
  • 00:01:33
    cash out refi. So we built it for around
  • 00:01:35
    30 million. Today it's worth in the
  • 00:01:38
    mid-40s. 30 mil. That's a quite a large
  • 00:01:41
    investment in a project. Did do you come
  • 00:01:43
    from some kind of a wealthy background?
  • 00:01:46
    Mama and papa wrote you a check? Of
  • 00:01:48
    course not. So my mom was a hairdresser
  • 00:01:50
    and my dad was in construction. I
  • 00:01:51
    started in property management. So
  • 00:01:53
    started right out of college. What made
  • 00:01:55
    you think, you know what, I'm on the
  • 00:01:56
    wrong side of the coin here. Yeah. So
  • 00:01:58
    free rent.
  • 00:02:00
    I mean, it sounds simple, but you know,
  • 00:02:02
    I was getting I had student loans. I
  • 00:02:04
    wrestled in college and one of my
  • 00:02:06
    friends said, you know, would you like
  • 00:02:08
    to manage this apartment building free
  • 00:02:10
    rent? So I said, of course, I can do
  • 00:02:12
    that. You know, I've never done it
  • 00:02:13
    before. So that was kind of me cutting
  • 00:02:16
    my teeth on property management. And
  • 00:02:17
    then the owner of that building one day
  • 00:02:19
    showed up after I had filled it up and
  • 00:02:22
    cleaned it up and done all the things
  • 00:02:24
    that I would have done because I grew up
  • 00:02:25
    in construction too. And he's like,
  • 00:02:27
    "Man, the place looks great and it's
  • 00:02:29
    cash flowing and it's full." And that's
  • 00:02:31
    when I realized I was on the wrong side
  • 00:02:32
    of the desk. I said, "Oh, how do I learn
  • 00:02:35
    what you know?" And that's when I
  • 00:02:37
    started to learn that a lot of people
  • 00:02:39
    buy really good assets like that. They
  • 00:02:42
    look for really good management and um
  • 00:02:44
    once they get that, they don't sell them
  • 00:02:46
    because they just cash flow over and
  • 00:02:49
    over and over. And so that's when I
  • 00:02:50
    decided to get my real estate license
  • 00:02:51
    and kind of dig in. What's the ratio of
  • 00:02:54
    uh units here at the complex? Yeah, we
  • 00:02:56
    have one, twos, and three bedrooms. And
  • 00:02:58
    typically the bulk of what you have are
  • 00:03:00
    two bedrooms cuz that's the most popular
  • 00:03:02
    for the threes kind of work for families
  • 00:03:04
    and the ones kind of work for people who
  • 00:03:06
    are a little bit more on a budget.
  • 00:03:07
    Gotcha. Can we go check one out? Yeah,
  • 00:03:09
    let's go check it out. Awesome. I'll
  • 00:03:10
    follow you out.
  • 00:03:13
    All right. Yeah. So, this is a
  • 00:03:14
    two-bedroom, two bath. Oh, wow. It's uh
  • 00:03:17
    almost 1,100 ft² and it rents for
  • 00:03:19
    about$,750. Gotcha. Yeah. This is neat.
  • 00:03:21
    I mean, I can see why people want to
  • 00:03:23
    live here, right? You've got the
  • 00:03:24
    incredible pool, you've got the gym,
  • 00:03:26
    kind of everything you'd need for a good
  • 00:03:27
    lifestyle. Barbecues, we have a pet
  • 00:03:29
    park. We have all kinds of stuff set up
  • 00:03:31
    for people. What's the passive income
  • 00:03:33
    look like for a property like this in
  • 00:03:34
    Phoenix? So, we've already refinanced
  • 00:03:36
    this once and we pulled equity out
  • 00:03:38
    already, but right now we got about 20
  • 00:03:41
    million in equity in this property if we
  • 00:03:42
    sold it, but it kicks out somewhere
  • 00:03:45
    around 35 to 40,000 a month in cash
  • 00:03:48
    flow. Cash flow after all expenses.
  • 00:03:50
    Yeah. So, that would be income minus
  • 00:03:52
    expenses. Expenses would be insurance,
  • 00:03:56
    property taxes, labor. Oh, yeah.
  • 00:03:58
    Everything. And then and debt service
  • 00:04:00
    too. And then capex or capital
  • 00:04:01
    expenditures. So, that would be another
  • 00:04:02
    thing. So roughly, call it 350 to 450
  • 00:04:06
    depending on the year of cash flow. Walk
  • 00:04:09
    us through your first deal. Anything
  • 00:04:11
    that stands out? Anything that we can
  • 00:04:12
    learn from? I think a lot of us can
  • 00:04:14
    think that the first deal is the hardest
  • 00:04:15
    and it may be, right? Or it could be the
  • 00:04:17
    opposite. What was it like for you? What
  • 00:04:19
    are some lessons from that? There was a
  • 00:04:21
    condominium converter out of Canada that
  • 00:04:23
    came down and bought 136 unit property
  • 00:04:26
    and I bought a two-bedroom, two bath.
  • 00:04:29
    came to me because they wanted me to
  • 00:04:30
    help them kind of take care of it from a
  • 00:04:32
    management standpoint, but I also knew
  • 00:04:34
    what the rents were because I'm in the
  • 00:04:36
    property management business at the
  • 00:04:37
    time. And they offered me one of the
  • 00:04:40
    two-bedroom, two baths at the time for
  • 00:04:42
    $116,000. That's going way back. So, it
  • 00:04:44
    cash flowed, I think, between $100 and
  • 00:04:47
    $200 a month. That was it. Not bad. But
  • 00:04:49
    I only put like 30 grand down. So, it
  • 00:04:52
    was maybe a seven or eight% cash on
  • 00:04:54
    cash. So, it made sense as long as I
  • 00:04:56
    kept it full. So that was my very first
  • 00:04:58
    deal. I did that a couple times and then
  • 00:05:01
    I ran out of cash as you do. What was
  • 00:05:04
    the biggest learning curve when you were
  • 00:05:06
    first starting out? What did you figure
  • 00:05:07
    out that you need to learn pretty quick
  • 00:05:09
    and Well, I think everybody has a bias,
  • 00:05:11
    right, on how they grow up and what they
  • 00:05:14
    learn from their parents or friends and
  • 00:05:16
    family. For me, it was scarcity mindset.
  • 00:05:19
    You know, my parents grew up super poor.
  • 00:05:21
    When they said we can't afford it, they
  • 00:05:23
    meant it. I grew up shopping at the
  • 00:05:26
    thrift stores for clothes for school and
  • 00:05:29
    those kinds of things. And so to go from
  • 00:05:31
    that to being able to understand how
  • 00:05:34
    money works and then to buy real estate
  • 00:05:36
    deals, it's a very different mindset.
  • 00:05:38
    How do you translate it that into
  • 00:05:40
    analyzing a deal early on? The very
  • 00:05:42
    first thing is just do I belong in this
  • 00:05:45
    room? You they're a lot smarter around
  • 00:05:47
    money. I didn't grow up around money.
  • 00:05:49
    You know, the same kind of things I
  • 00:05:50
    think a lot of people have. You really
  • 00:05:52
    have to rewire your brain and then you
  • 00:05:55
    realize it's just math. Then it just
  • 00:05:57
    becomes easier. I think once you start
  • 00:05:59
    to underwrite a lot of deals, you start
  • 00:06:01
    to look at a lot of deals, you start to
  • 00:06:02
    see a lot of deals and you have
  • 00:06:04
    thousands of conversations, you start to
  • 00:06:06
    realize that there are a lot of things
  • 00:06:08
    that start to be kind of consistent from
  • 00:06:11
    project to project to project. But the
  • 00:06:13
    end of the day, if the math doesn't
  • 00:06:15
    work, the deal should not. All right,
  • 00:06:17
    let's say I want to get into real
  • 00:06:19
    estate. I don't have any money. That's
  • 00:06:21
    the big dilemma, right, guys? Give us
  • 00:06:23
    the step-by-step blueprint for getting
  • 00:06:25
    started. You have to understand what a
  • 00:06:26
    deal is. So, that might require a book.
  • 00:06:29
    It might require a lot of YouTube
  • 00:06:30
    videos. It might require a lot of study.
  • 00:06:33
    So, the thing is is you won't even know
  • 00:06:35
    what you're looking at if you get it.
  • 00:06:37
    So, the first thing is education. You
  • 00:06:39
    know, read, consume everything you can,
  • 00:06:41
    and at least understand kind of the
  • 00:06:43
    numbers, the vernacular, and what it is.
  • 00:06:46
    That's number one because deals start in
  • 00:06:48
    the mind and they start with what you
  • 00:06:50
    see. What about step two, step three? So
  • 00:06:53
    step two of course is then whatever that
  • 00:06:55
    is, let's say it's um Airbnb. Mhm. Then
  • 00:06:58
    the next thing you want to do is find
  • 00:07:00
    what are the best markets where Airbnbs
  • 00:07:03
    are the highest occupied. So market is
  • 00:07:06
    way more important than property. That's
  • 00:07:08
    the second thing. But none of that
  • 00:07:09
    matters if I don't have money. Sorry if
  • 00:07:11
    I'm jumping the gun on you, but what's
  • 00:07:12
    the next step? That's fair. But you
  • 00:07:13
    don't need money at this point because
  • 00:07:15
    that's the mistake. People think I need
  • 00:07:17
    money before I start. This is just
  • 00:07:19
    education at this point. You do not need
  • 00:07:21
    money cuz you don't know what you're
  • 00:07:22
    going to buy. So then the third thing is
  • 00:07:24
    to identify the property. Okay, I found
  • 00:07:27
    this 5-bedroom house. It would be a
  • 00:07:29
    great Airbnb and in an area that doesn't
  • 00:07:32
    have any. Now you actually have
  • 00:07:34
    something that you can sneak your teeth
  • 00:07:36
    into. It's 500 grand. It's going to be
  • 00:07:38
    50 grand to furnish it. I need 550
  • 00:07:41
    grand. Now you have something. You can
  • 00:07:43
    actually go take a look what the rents
  • 00:07:45
    are. You can go see what the expenses
  • 00:07:47
    are. And now you can actually run the
  • 00:07:49
    numbers. At this point, you don't need
  • 00:07:51
    money. It's pure education. So until you
  • 00:07:54
    actually physically have something in
  • 00:07:56
    your hand that you can look at that
  • 00:07:57
    actually has math behind it, you don't
  • 00:07:59
    know. Now at that point, it's just a mix
  • 00:08:02
    of debt and equity, right? So you can
  • 00:08:05
    bring an investor on and say, "This is a
  • 00:08:07
    market that's highly underserved. I have
  • 00:08:09
    a deal that I'm about ready to put into
  • 00:08:11
    escrow. You don't even have to have it
  • 00:08:13
    in escrow, but you could. My goal is to
  • 00:08:15
    put 50 grand in furniture in here. I've
  • 00:08:17
    already found somebody to do that. And I
  • 00:08:19
    think that it's going to produce about
  • 00:08:21
    15 to $20,000 gross a month. That's the
  • 00:08:24
    deal. Mhm. So, you go out and find it.
  • 00:08:27
    And what you do is you get the investor
  • 00:08:29
    the largest percentage. You go get debt
  • 00:08:32
    and then you get what's called carried
  • 00:08:34
    interest. So, you haven't done a thing.
  • 00:08:36
    It's just 100% research at this point.
  • 00:08:39
    So, there's so many ways to do this and
  • 00:08:42
    it's all in the deal. So, that's why you
  • 00:08:44
    always are looking for deals at all
  • 00:08:45
    times. I look at hundreds of deals a
  • 00:08:47
    month and I probably really seriously
  • 00:08:50
    only look at less than five or six out
  • 00:08:52
    of those hundreds. Just delete, delete,
  • 00:08:54
    delete, delete. And then, oh, this one
  • 00:08:56
    looks interesting. And then you make
  • 00:08:57
    calls. Does this work? What's the what
  • 00:09:00
    what are the rents? What are the
  • 00:09:02
    expenses? What's the interest rate?
  • 00:09:04
    What's the cost of money? And then
  • 00:09:06
    again, it just boils down to math. It
  • 00:09:08
    either cash flows or it doesn't. All
  • 00:09:10
    right, so this is your market rate
  • 00:09:11
    asset. You've also got age restriction
  • 00:09:13
    properties. Can we go check one out?
  • 00:09:14
    Which one is it? It's Fountain of Sun
  • 00:09:16
    City. You guys are going to love this
  • 00:09:17
    property. You have to be 55 or older to
  • 00:09:19
    move in. How long have you had it? I've
  • 00:09:21
    owned it almost 20 years. Nice. Let's go
  • 00:09:22
    check it out.
  • 00:09:27
    All right. Welcome to the 55 plus age
  • 00:09:30
    restricted property. Right. I was in Sun
  • 00:09:32
    City. What made you get in to this asset
  • 00:09:34
    class as opposed to market rate which is
  • 00:09:36
    open right to everybody? How is it
  • 00:09:37
    different as far as management? This
  • 00:09:39
    property it's 182 units last year had 42
  • 00:09:43
    people move out. That's all. So what's
  • 00:09:47
    normal is around 60 to 70% turnover.
  • 00:09:50
    Then all the costs go down. Wow. You
  • 00:09:53
    know, think about the maintenance guys.
  • 00:09:55
    The wear and tear on the whole property
  • 00:09:57
    goes down as a result of low turnover.
  • 00:09:59
    Did you know that going in? Is that was
  • 00:10:01
    No, I knew that seniors didn't move.
  • 00:10:04
    They're not like moving for jobs or
  • 00:10:05
    anything. They're coming for community,
  • 00:10:07
    but we have a full-time director of
  • 00:10:10
    activities and we have a van that
  • 00:10:12
    actually shuttles them around. Okay.
  • 00:10:14
    We're not assisted care. That sounds
  • 00:10:16
    like adult care if you active living.
  • 00:10:18
    That's pretty cool. Every real estate
  • 00:10:20
    empire starts with a single investment,
  • 00:10:22
    then another, then another, until you
  • 00:10:24
    end up with a $2 billion portfolio like
  • 00:10:27
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    All right, guys. Blitz time with Ken.
  • 00:11:24
    Ken, you ready? Yeah. Let's get through
  • 00:11:26
    this top book. every real estate
  • 00:11:27
    investor should read. Oh, ABCs of Real
  • 00:11:29
    Estate Investing. My book. Come on. It's
  • 00:11:31
    20 years. Perfect. Great book. There you
  • 00:11:33
    go. Favorite city to invest in real
  • 00:11:35
    estate right now. So, I like Dallas. I
  • 00:11:38
    like uh great North Dallas. Okay. One
  • 00:11:41
    trade every successful investor should
  • 00:11:43
    have. Sales skills. That's important. Is
  • 00:11:46
    now a buyer market or a sellers market?
  • 00:11:48
    I know this is market specific, so pick
  • 00:11:50
    maybe a country. I think it's a buyer
  • 00:11:53
    market overall. Yep. Okay. What's the
  • 00:11:56
    most unusual place you've closed a deal?
  • 00:11:59
    In a car driving down the freeway.
  • 00:12:02
    If you could instantly master By the
  • 00:12:04
    way, we're not Oh, that's true. He's
  • 00:12:06
    He's so used to his podcasting speaking
  • 00:12:08
    in his mind. If you could instantly
  • 00:12:10
    master one new skill, not real estate
  • 00:12:12
    related, what would it be? Intuition.
  • 00:12:15
    Intuition. Couple more. How do I find
  • 00:12:17
    genuine mentors and people to work with?
  • 00:12:20
    Conferences. Anybody that's doing
  • 00:12:22
    personal development? my experience has
  • 00:12:24
    been. Just go walk up to them and ask
  • 00:12:26
    them what they do and and ask them if
  • 00:12:27
    you can have some of their time. That's
  • 00:12:29
    what I've done my whole life. That's
  • 00:12:30
    awesome. Last one. Uh, what's the best
  • 00:12:32
    way to use your first property to
  • 00:12:34
    leverage future real estate purchases?
  • 00:12:36
    Well, that's a great collateral, right?
  • 00:12:38
    So, that's what the bank wants and so
  • 00:12:40
    it's easy to put a line of credit on it
  • 00:12:42
    and then pull that money out. Awesome.
  • 00:12:44
    That's it. So, Ken, when you look at new
  • 00:12:46
    opportunities, when you're evaluating
  • 00:12:48
    properties, what things are you looking
  • 00:12:50
    for and any red flags? It's probably the
  • 00:12:52
    opposite of what most people do. Like
  • 00:12:54
    I'm looking for very delinquent people.
  • 00:12:57
    I'm looking for a lot of turnover. When
  • 00:12:59
    people move out a lot, typically you
  • 00:13:01
    have cash flow that goes like this or
  • 00:13:04
    revenue that goes like this. I'm looking
  • 00:13:06
    for big disparity between rents. So
  • 00:13:08
    let's say a two-bedroom would be 1,700
  • 00:13:11
    and then you might have another one
  • 00:13:12
    that's 1,200. So you start to look at
  • 00:13:15
    what's called loss to lease inside of
  • 00:13:17
    the rent roll. And then obviously you
  • 00:13:19
    look at late fees. So late fees
  • 00:13:21
    traditionally are income, but it also is
  • 00:13:25
    an indicator that you actually have a
  • 00:13:27
    tenant profile in there that you might
  • 00:13:29
    not want. So all the red flags
  • 00:13:31
    technically become the opportunity point
  • 00:13:34
    in a way, right? And they're all sitting
  • 00:13:36
    there in the financial statement. From
  • 00:13:38
    one property to 10,000 doors, you guys
  • 00:13:41
    10,000 doors is a serious number. Give
  • 00:13:43
    us a sense of how quickly you scaled and
  • 00:13:45
    any important milestones in that
  • 00:13:47
    journey. Well, not quick at all. So,
  • 00:13:49
    first of all, yeah, it's so overnight 20
  • 00:13:51
    years success, right? Yeah. So, the
  • 00:13:53
    obviously the first five years was all
  • 00:13:55
    single families and, you know,
  • 00:13:56
    multi-unit stuff, right? And then you
  • 00:13:58
    start to get the bigger deals. So, the
  • 00:14:00
    first milestone was a,000 units. That
  • 00:14:02
    was my first in my head milestone. Then
  • 00:14:05
    the next milestone, believe it or not,
  • 00:14:06
    was 4,000. Now, why 4,000? I don't know.
  • 00:14:09
    One to four. Yeah. But that was kind of
  • 00:14:11
    my stretch goal. And then after that, it
  • 00:14:13
    was 10,000. And we actually hit 10,000
  • 00:14:16
    quite a while ago. So probably in that
  • 00:14:18
    first 15 years we hit 10,000. Mhm. Which
  • 00:14:21
    was slow, methodical and strategic. Then
  • 00:14:26
    we went up to a little bit higher and
  • 00:14:29
    then we kind of came back. We started
  • 00:14:30
    exiting some of the older projects and
  • 00:14:33
    recycling that money into newer more of
  • 00:14:36
    the class A high-end projects. Do you
  • 00:14:38
    think coming from a humble background,
  • 00:14:41
    Ken, was a disadvantage or an advantage?
  • 00:14:44
    What do you say to that? Massive
  • 00:14:45
    advantage. I know what it's like not to
  • 00:14:47
    have. Yeah. So when you do, you have a
  • 00:14:50
    different perspective. And you spoke
  • 00:14:52
    about three different types of people.
  • 00:14:53
    Can you elaborate on that a little bit?
  • 00:14:55
    We call them the W2s, which are the
  • 00:14:58
    folks that work for a paycheck, which is
  • 00:15:00
    totally fine. Kind of the entre Yeah,
  • 00:15:03
    the entrepreneur. And then I also call
  • 00:15:05
    the last one, you know, lucky sperm or
  • 00:15:08
    the a fluent. And I find that a lot of
  • 00:15:11
    times, especially now I'm in those
  • 00:15:12
    circles, they have the toughest time.
  • 00:15:15
    So, in what way? Well, sounds ironic. I
  • 00:15:18
    know. You know, it is. Have access to
  • 00:15:21
    everything you possibly. You would think
  • 00:15:22
    so. But, um, material things, I find
  • 00:15:26
    that if you try to put cars and jets and
  • 00:15:29
    houses and all that stuff kind of in
  • 00:15:30
    front of and that's who you are, then if
  • 00:15:34
    that you don't have that stuff, then
  • 00:15:36
    you're not very happy. What trends are
  • 00:15:38
    you seeing that we should be watching
  • 00:15:40
    carefully? Affordability, tiny home,
  • 00:15:42
    immigration. The biggest one, which
  • 00:15:44
    we're standing right in the middle of,
  • 00:15:45
    is the aging baby boomers. Now, not all
  • 00:15:47
    of them are renting, but they're all
  • 00:15:49
    moving around. They're all retiring. And
  • 00:15:51
    so, that's a huge one. And what I found
  • 00:15:55
    is that there's a lot of people that are
  • 00:15:57
    buying RVs, even older ones, because of
  • 00:15:59
    affordability. And of course, the tiny
  • 00:16:01
    home communities. So, those are really
  • 00:16:03
    starting to be popular because people
  • 00:16:06
    don't want to adjust their lifestyle too
  • 00:16:07
    much. And the one thing they can
  • 00:16:09
    massively adjust is their monthly
  • 00:16:11
    payment, housing costs. Yeah. And so you
  • 00:16:13
    start to look for these bubbles and
  • 00:16:15
    they're everywhere. And so all you got
  • 00:16:17
    to do is kind of keep your eye out like
  • 00:16:19
    what do people want?
  • 00:16:22
    So you are Robbie Kiyosaki's real estate
  • 00:16:24
    advisor. Yes. Really exciting. I've been
  • 00:16:26
    fan of it since I was a little kid.
  • 00:16:27
    Reading reading that book, right? Rich
  • 00:16:29
    Dad Poor Dad. How did that amazing
  • 00:16:31
    partnership come about? And what are
  • 00:16:33
    some of the biggest achievements
  • 00:16:34
    together? When you start to raise money,
  • 00:16:36
    you don't know always who everybody is
  • 00:16:39
    until somebody tells you. Right. When
  • 00:16:40
    Rich Dad Poor Dad had come out, I had
  • 00:16:42
    never read it. Then I realized, oh, this
  • 00:16:44
    is the guy who wrote a book. I better go
  • 00:16:46
    grab it. So, I went to the bookstore,
  • 00:16:48
    bought the book, read it before I met
  • 00:16:49
    him the next day. Now I'm able to chat
  • 00:16:52
    with him and talk to him about things in
  • 00:16:53
    the book. One of which is your property
  • 00:16:56
    manager is the most important person on
  • 00:16:58
    your team, which was perfect cuz that's
  • 00:17:00
    who I was. And so I we started talking
  • 00:17:02
    about that and he said, "Why don't you
  • 00:17:04
    come to one of my seminars?" And I said,
  • 00:17:06
    "Well, what is that?" He said, "Well, I
  • 00:17:07
    teach." I said, "Oh, okay." Okay. So, I
  • 00:17:09
    went to a seminar, saw he had several
  • 00:17:11
    hundred people in the room. He's
  • 00:17:13
    teaching all these investing concepts
  • 00:17:15
    and and and things and I enjoyed it and
  • 00:17:18
    I went and spoke at that conference and
  • 00:17:20
    we became friends. He they ended up
  • 00:17:22
    investing in the deal that we had in
  • 00:17:24
    Tucson slowly testing the waters. So,
  • 00:17:27
    the biggest achievement was Robert
  • 00:17:29
    pulled me aside. He said, "You got to
  • 00:17:31
    tell people about what you do." I'm
  • 00:17:32
    like, "Why would I do that?" He's like,
  • 00:17:34
    "You should write a book." I'm like,
  • 00:17:35
    "Why would I do that?" And so he forced
  • 00:17:38
    me to write a book and I say that in a
  • 00:17:40
    good way to go out and teach with him
  • 00:17:42
    and speak with him and go all over the
  • 00:17:43
    world now kind of teaching financial
  • 00:17:45
    freedom. So I had been doing that for
  • 00:17:47
    years and then when the pandemic hit I
  • 00:17:50
    had all that knowledge. I had never
  • 00:17:51
    really done much with it and so that's
  • 00:17:53
    when I started doing the YouTube videos.
  • 00:17:55
    Yeah, that's awesome. Ken Melroy built
  • 00:17:57
    his billion dollar real estate empire
  • 00:17:59
    brick by brick. So, if you guys are
  • 00:18:00
    inspired to lay down your own
  • 00:18:02
    foundation, the Upflip Academy can help
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    get you there in 10 days, guaranteed. If
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    you know what you're looking to start or
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    still looking for that beautiful,
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    wonderful business idea, hit that link
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    in the description below to start your
  • 00:18:13
    own business in the next 10 days,
  • 00:18:15
    guaranteed. Well, let's go check out the
  • 00:18:16
    leasing office and the other corner.
  • 00:18:18
    Yeah. Meet the ladies running this
  • 00:18:19
    place, right? Yeah. They're the they're
  • 00:18:21
    the uh they're the ones that make it
  • 00:18:22
    happen cuz they're doing an amazing job.
  • 00:18:24
    They are. So, shout out to you place.
  • 00:18:25
    Let's go.
  • 00:18:28
    So, I've noticed so far we looked at
  • 00:18:30
    residential properties. Is that the only
  • 00:18:32
    asset class you invest in and why? I
  • 00:18:34
    like the ability to immediately fix cash
  • 00:18:38
    flow on residential. So, what I mean by
  • 00:18:40
    that is if I have a bunch of people that
  • 00:18:43
    move out of, let's say, a student
  • 00:18:44
    property all at the same time, let's say
  • 00:18:46
    at the end of school, I can get all
  • 00:18:48
    those filled up really quickly, like in
  • 00:18:50
    a in a 30-day period, even if it's at a
  • 00:18:52
    discount rent or giving the resident
  • 00:18:54
    some kind of concession or something
  • 00:18:57
    like that. So, multifamily and
  • 00:18:59
    residential primarily do extremely well
  • 00:19:02
    based on the topline rent or occupancy.
  • 00:19:06
    When you are in, let's say, a storage
  • 00:19:08
    facility, you have to find that person
  • 00:19:09
    that's looking to store stuff. If you're
  • 00:19:11
    looking for an office building, you have
  • 00:19:13
    to find a business owner, let's say,
  • 00:19:15
    wants to move their office. Much harder
  • 00:19:17
    tack where a property like this, we just
  • 00:19:20
    have to have a market rate apartment
  • 00:19:22
    building that people find affordable.
  • 00:19:24
    Yeah. The housing need greater than far
  • 00:19:26
    greater than the other asset classes.
  • 00:19:28
    So, I like that a lot more than the
  • 00:19:30
    others. What are some top niches for
  • 00:19:32
    beginners in real estate specifically?
  • 00:19:34
    What do you think? Well, I think what
  • 00:19:36
    most people are looking for is something
  • 00:19:37
    they can do with no money. So,
  • 00:19:39
    wholesaling is obviously something
  • 00:19:41
    that's really quite easy. That's finding
  • 00:19:42
    somebody that wants to sell something
  • 00:19:44
    and then selling it to a wholesaler. So,
  • 00:19:46
    you're just basically a middleman taking
  • 00:19:47
    a commission. So, I've seen that also
  • 00:19:49
    done with Airbnb. So, let's say an
  • 00:19:51
    Airbnb person could come rent one of
  • 00:19:53
    these apartments from me for $1,200 and
  • 00:19:56
    then they go stick it out on Airbnb and
  • 00:19:58
    um they actually find somebody that
  • 00:20:00
    rents it for 2,000 if you let them. If
  • 00:20:02
    you let them. There's a lot of single
  • 00:20:04
    owners that will do that. So if because
  • 00:20:06
    they're fine, okay, do it do your thing,
  • 00:20:08
    you know, rent it from me. I'm I'm good
  • 00:20:09
    cuz I'm getting my rent, but then
  • 00:20:11
    they're renting at more like a hotel and
  • 00:20:13
    then you get all that money in between.
  • 00:20:16
    Now, it really doesn't really work in an
  • 00:20:18
    apartment building like this, but it
  • 00:20:19
    definitely could work in a duplex or a
  • 00:20:21
    single family house or something like
  • 00:20:23
    that where you can f come in and get a
  • 00:20:25
    low rent and then create a whole another
  • 00:20:27
    business on top of that. Another one
  • 00:20:29
    that I really like is you can get land
  • 00:20:31
    ready for the next person. So you can do
  • 00:20:34
    you can tie up a piece of land and just
  • 00:20:35
    getting it ready to build on. Maybe
  • 00:20:37
    whatever clearing it, grading it. You
  • 00:20:40
    don't even actually do that. It's mostly
  • 00:20:41
    approvals at the city or the county
  • 00:20:43
    paperwork stuff. Paperwork stuff. So in
  • 00:20:45
    other words, a vacant piece of land is
  • 00:20:47
    worth, let's say, 100 grand. But a
  • 00:20:50
    vacant piece of land that's approved to
  • 00:20:52
    build two houses on it is worth a lot
  • 00:20:54
    more.
  • 00:20:55
    And so what you do is you take the land
  • 00:20:58
    and you get all that work done which
  • 00:20:59
    could take 3 months, could take a year.
  • 00:21:01
    It's just slowly chipping away and then
  • 00:21:03
    what you do is you bring it to a custom
  • 00:21:05
    home builder or an investor and say this
  • 00:21:07
    is a fully approved building site for
  • 00:21:09
    you and then you mark it up. The
  • 00:21:11
    beautiful thing about that is you if you
  • 00:21:12
    have a good land use consultant partner
  • 00:21:14
    correct lock in a deal with 6 months
  • 00:21:17
    take it to your land use consultant. He
  • 00:21:19
    does all the work. Correct. And then
  • 00:21:20
    together you get your payback. So, like
  • 00:21:23
    if we're going to build an apartment
  • 00:21:24
    building, our risk is all that land
  • 00:21:27
    carry and them not approving the
  • 00:21:29
    apartments. Yes. So, if we can get
  • 00:21:31
    somebody that delivers that to us, they
  • 00:21:33
    get paid for the difference between what
  • 00:21:36
    they tied the land up and uh what we
  • 00:21:38
    sell it for. Wow. All right. Well, I'm
  • 00:21:39
    excited to see your office because
  • 00:21:41
    that's where is basically the hub of
  • 00:21:43
    reparation, right? Yes, it is. So, can
  • 00:21:44
    you take us there? We'll follow you.
  • 00:21:46
    100%. I'd be happy to.
  • 00:21:49
    All right. Here's your main office,
  • 00:21:51
    right? Other investors focus a lot on
  • 00:21:54
    capital gains, speculation, you know,
  • 00:21:56
    timing the market, which is challenging
  • 00:21:58
    to do sometimes, but here at MC, you
  • 00:22:00
    specifically focus on cash flow. So,
  • 00:22:02
    let's talk about why you think that's
  • 00:22:03
    the best strategy. Well, I think first
  • 00:22:05
    of all, when you're younger, I get it.
  • 00:22:07
    Like, you know, when you buy something
  • 00:22:09
    and it goes up in price, you want that
  • 00:22:11
    money, especially when you're broke. So,
  • 00:22:12
    I would say in my early 20s and and
  • 00:22:15
    early 30s, that's exactly what I would
  • 00:22:17
    do. And then I realized that I was just
  • 00:22:19
    on a treadmill. I was basically just
  • 00:22:21
    trying to figure out timing the market.
  • 00:22:23
    I was trying to figure out how do I take
  • 00:22:25
    something that's low in value and sell
  • 00:22:27
    it for more in value. That's when I
  • 00:22:29
    realized that cash flow was a better
  • 00:22:32
    strategy, which means that you don't
  • 00:22:34
    always have access to that equity. But
  • 00:22:35
    if you buy things correctly for cash
  • 00:22:38
    flow, then of course that's passive
  • 00:22:41
    income. You're not relying on a
  • 00:22:43
    commission or a next job or a paycheck
  • 00:22:46
    or anything. So now all of a sudden
  • 00:22:49
    you're in incredibly strong position
  • 00:22:51
    because you don't have to do deals. You
  • 00:22:53
    have cash flow coming in. You now can
  • 00:22:56
    really do the right deals at the right
  • 00:22:57
    time. So everybody's aligned. What do
  • 00:22:59
    you think is the biggest misconception
  • 00:23:01
    people have about real estate? One that
  • 00:23:03
    it's easy. It's not quick. It's not get
  • 00:23:06
    rich quick at all. It's a just a
  • 00:23:08
    long-term strategy. And I think the
  • 00:23:10
    biggest obstacle that people hang their
  • 00:23:12
    hat on is that they need their own
  • 00:23:15
    money. That's true. And that's not at
  • 00:23:17
    all. If I don't have any real estate for
  • 00:23:19
    me, I totally get that. But I think that
  • 00:23:21
    kind of holds people back. You know,
  • 00:23:23
    it's kind of like I'm not going to the
  • 00:23:24
    gym cuz I don't have the time. So, what
  • 00:23:26
    was the biggest loss for you in your
  • 00:23:28
    career? And we're talking what, 30, 40
  • 00:23:30
    years since you've been in this
  • 00:23:31
    industry. Yeah. In the early 2000s. I
  • 00:23:34
    actually did a lot of these and they're
  • 00:23:36
    extremely profitable, but really it's
  • 00:23:37
    one big flip. So in this particular
  • 00:23:39
    case, it was a 300 unit building. We
  • 00:23:41
    bought it for $30 million and the goal
  • 00:23:44
    was to sell it for 60. Now it cost
  • 00:23:47
    about, you know, 20 to $40,000 per place
  • 00:23:51
    for renovations and sales and marketing
  • 00:23:54
    and all that kind of stuff. That leaves
  • 00:23:55
    about 50 grand per unit of profit. So
  • 00:23:58
    50,000 times 300 is about a $15 million
  • 00:24:02
    profit. So on paper it sounded great.
  • 00:24:05
    Yeah, it does. Well, it was gone because
  • 00:24:07
    what happened was in 2007208
  • 00:24:11
    the what was called the takeout
  • 00:24:12
    financing just stopped because the the
  • 00:24:15
    banks were wobbly during that time. I
  • 00:24:17
    was relying on that bank to give you
  • 00:24:19
    money to buy my property. When that
  • 00:24:21
    stopped the property stopped everything
  • 00:24:23
    stopped and when sales stop there's no
  • 00:24:26
    more money. All right. Ken Maroyy's
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    success proves that it only takes one
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  • 00:24:50
    [Music]
  • 00:24:51
    Cool. So this is your studio. Yeah. It's
  • 00:24:53
    nice, huh? Amazing. When did you get
  • 00:24:55
    this set up, Ken? Oh, we did it during
  • 00:24:57
    co I was at home and I'm like I'm going
  • 00:25:00
    out of my mind itching for a project.
  • 00:25:02
    Yeah, I had time for the first time in a
  • 00:25:04
    long time and I decided to start
  • 00:25:06
    teaching. What's one mindset shift that
  • 00:25:08
    was critical to your success? One of the
  • 00:25:10
    things that hit me square in the eyes
  • 00:25:12
    was when somebody did what's called be,
  • 00:25:14
    do have. And so be, do, have is quite
  • 00:25:18
    simple. Most people focus on have. They
  • 00:25:21
    want this. They want a nice house. They
  • 00:25:23
    want a nice car. They want this. They
  • 00:25:24
    want a great relationship and so they
  • 00:25:26
    start to do things but really this the
  • 00:25:30
    key and the success of all of it is who
  • 00:25:32
    are you going to be? Yeah. So once I
  • 00:25:35
    focus started to focus on what I needed
  • 00:25:37
    to be. I wanted to be a good investor. I
  • 00:25:40
    wanted to be a good father. I wanted to
  • 00:25:42
    be a good husband. I wanted to all those
  • 00:25:44
    things. I started taking ownership of
  • 00:25:46
    that. Then of course once you understand
  • 00:25:48
    who you want to be then you know what to
  • 00:25:50
    do. Wow. Well said. So that's exactly
  • 00:25:53
    probably the biggest shift for me.
  • 00:25:55
    What's the biggest life lesson that real
  • 00:25:58
    estate specifically has taught you, Ken?
  • 00:26:00
    The financial freedom does exist. And
  • 00:26:03
    there's something to be said about not
  • 00:26:05
    having the stress or anxiety of where's
  • 00:26:09
    money coming from. In the beginning,
  • 00:26:10
    it's just kind of a theory and a and a
  • 00:26:13
    want, you know, and something that
  • 00:26:14
    you're trying to aspire to. But then
  • 00:26:16
    when it happens, when you actually have
  • 00:26:19
    so much money coming in passively and
  • 00:26:23
    you're in 100% control of it, you don't
  • 00:26:25
    have to do a deal. You don't have to
  • 00:26:27
    sell anything because what you've
  • 00:26:29
    already done, all the seeds you've
  • 00:26:31
    planted are already producing fruit. Now
  • 00:26:33
    you're in a situation where you can
  • 00:26:35
    teach like I'm doing now. You can do
  • 00:26:38
    philanthropy. You can take a week off, a
  • 00:26:42
    month off, you can do whatever you want.
  • 00:26:44
    That's full financial freedom. And also,
  • 00:26:47
    I didn't have everything figured out. I
  • 00:26:48
    think that's important to know.
  • 00:26:50
    Everything I thought I was going to do
  • 00:26:52
    from a young age is completely
  • 00:26:54
    different, but I always had a bit of a
  • 00:26:56
    target. I always had something that I
  • 00:26:58
    wanted, you know, I always had something
  • 00:27:00
    out in front of me. In this industry,
  • 00:27:02
    what are typical profit margins and
  • 00:27:04
    where's your portfolio at? Yeah, we're
  • 00:27:07
    really, really high. So, it depends on
  • 00:27:09
    the kind of money you use, believe it or
  • 00:27:10
    not. So if you use private equity,
  • 00:27:12
    family office, or let's say
  • 00:27:14
    institutional capital, you're going
  • 00:27:16
    they're going to want to be in the teens
  • 00:27:18
    as far as a return. So 14, 15, 16,
  • 00:27:21
    obviously even more. So there's a very
  • 00:27:23
    different kind of money that invests in
  • 00:27:25
    this kind of a property. So the reason
  • 00:27:27
    I've been able to own this for 21 years
  • 00:27:30
    is because I have very patient money. I
  • 00:27:32
    have high net worth money. Now, if I
  • 00:27:34
    would have bought this with, let's say,
  • 00:27:36
    a group out of New York, uh, this would
  • 00:27:38
    have been no longer than a 5-year hold.
  • 00:27:40
    Mhm. I would have had to sell this
  • 00:27:42
    property in 2012, 2013. So, I would have
  • 00:27:45
    missed out on all that profit and the
  • 00:27:47
    tax advantages and all that kind of
  • 00:27:48
    stuff. So, a lot of real estate like
  • 00:27:50
    this depends on where you source your
  • 00:27:52
    money. Can you even say there's a profit
  • 00:27:54
    margin? You know, a business generates
  • 00:27:56
    20% profits. Is this 30? Is this 50? Or
  • 00:27:58
    are we talking or less? Well, that's
  • 00:28:00
    part of the reason I do the YouTube
  • 00:28:01
    channel is I like to talk about infinite
  • 00:28:03
    returns so people understand an infinite
  • 00:28:06
    return. If I get 100 grand from you and
  • 00:28:08
    I give it back to you in 5 years and
  • 00:28:10
    you're still an owner and you're still
  • 00:28:12
    getting cash flow, that's the infinite
  • 00:28:13
    return. That's infinite. You've talked
  • 00:28:15
    about the importance of using other
  • 00:28:17
    people's money, right? What's the term
  • 00:28:18
    there? Yeah. OPM. OPM. Other people's
  • 00:28:21
    money. So the big question that I have
  • 00:28:23
    is how do what are some biggest mistakes
  • 00:28:25
    that entrepreneurs make when it comes to
  • 00:28:26
    leveraging debt and how do we avoid
  • 00:28:28
    those pitfalls? Yeah, it's a great
  • 00:28:30
    question. So first of all, OPM is like
  • 00:28:34
    you could give me money in the form of
  • 00:28:36
    equity or in the form of debt. It's
  • 00:28:38
    really your choice. It's just money. So
  • 00:28:40
    it's important to know even though it's
  • 00:28:42
    going to be categorized, it's just
  • 00:28:44
    priced differently. So what happens,
  • 00:28:46
    what kills every real estate investor or
  • 00:28:49
    every syndicator is the cost of debt or
  • 00:28:52
    too heavily leveraged. I've seen people
  • 00:28:56
    do really what they call hard money.
  • 00:28:58
    Let's say 8 9 10 12 14% and they have
  • 00:29:01
    really short timelines and then things
  • 00:29:03
    don't work out and then all of a sudden
  • 00:29:05
    that property becomes the property of
  • 00:29:08
    the person who lent the money. Right?
  • 00:29:09
    When you borrow debt, you have to make
  • 00:29:11
    sure that you're doing it at a prudent
  • 00:29:13
    rate. And of course, back to the cash
  • 00:29:15
    flow thing, if you're borrowing debt
  • 00:29:17
    fixed and it cash flows, you're going to
  • 00:29:20
    be fine. If you're borrowing debt
  • 00:29:22
    floating, you probably aren't going to
  • 00:29:24
    be. So, that's exactly what got
  • 00:29:26
    everybody in trouble is they didn't get
  • 00:29:29
    fixed rate debt. So, the floating debt
  • 00:29:32
    goes up when the Fed increased rates and
  • 00:29:35
    that killed the deal. Why would you get
  • 00:29:37
    a floating rate on a deal size of 30,
  • 00:29:39
    40, even 5, 6 million? You're saying
  • 00:29:42
    that that was a common mistake on
  • 00:29:44
    exactly what's killing people right now.
  • 00:29:46
    On a construction loan like this, you
  • 00:29:49
    can't get fixed rate. It's floating
  • 00:29:52
    because there's no nothing. There's no
  • 00:29:54
    collateral. The construction phase.
  • 00:29:55
    Yeah. The construction phase, you
  • 00:29:57
    typically have floating debt. For us, we
  • 00:29:59
    love fixed rate. Like I want to know
  • 00:30:02
    what my payment's going to be in four,
  • 00:30:04
    five, six years from now. That's power.
  • 00:30:06
    or that's control. I I can't tell you
  • 00:30:08
    how many deals people bought with a
  • 00:30:10
    floating rate and they're getting
  • 00:30:12
    crushed right now. And so the way to do
  • 00:30:14
    it, the way to increase your certainty
  • 00:30:17
    on the on the asset or the real estate
  • 00:30:18
    itself is to know your mortgage payment
  • 00:30:20
    in year 1 2 3 4 5 6. Still think you
  • 00:30:24
    need a fortune to get started in real
  • 00:30:25
    estate? In episode 152, Thatch breaks
  • 00:30:27
    down how he built an $800,000 a month
  • 00:30:30
    portfolio as an immigrant with zero to
  • 00:30:33
    his name. Thank you for watching. Take a
  • 00:30:34
    second, like and subscribe.
Tags
  • real estate
  • financial education
  • investment strategy
  • cash flow
  • property management
  • financial freedom
  • real estate empire
  • Ken Mroy
  • real estate investing
  • OPM