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and tonight nearly 30 years later we
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bring you the results of a primetime
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investigation we started this by going
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to the Leadership Council for open
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metropolitan communities in Chicago it's
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a group that tests for fair housing we
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ask them to give us two testers trained
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in presenting themselves exactly the
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same way to young men who could go into
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white and racially mixed neighborhoods
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with hidden cameras to record their
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experiences for us during the two and a
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half weeks at times the two men were
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treated equally at times there was
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ambiguity but tonight we're going to
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show some of the ways in which they were
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treated differently because this didn't
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happen just once or twice it happened
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every single day meet John Coonan and
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Glen Brewer they work together at the
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Leadership Council they're both from the
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Midwest they went to Big Ten schools
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grew up in middle-class families even
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play on the same softball team they're
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friends two young men whose lives are
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virtually the same in every way but one
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you can see a few months ago John and
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Glen agreed to pack their bags and help
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with our investigation our question how
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much difference does the color of your
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skin make in everyday life in America
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for the answer we went to the city of
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st. Louis Missouri where the two men
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moved into this motel and prepared to
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begin a new life you really feel that
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you're that you're equal definitely yes
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one two three four twists every day
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we'll be with them to show you what
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happens
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let us tell you a little bit about how
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we're going to go about this we're going
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to send John and Glenn into a variety of
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situations and we're going to monitor
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what's going on from the van will be
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parked outside one of the first things
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John and Glenn do is take a look around
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the city go to a shopping center to pick
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up some things they need John looks at
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some clothes
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so does Glenn they do some browsing and
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right away something catches our
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attention when John walks up to this
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electronics count almost instant service
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but just a few minutes later when Glenn
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walks up he is ignored by not one but
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two salesmen standing a few feet away
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we didn't make anything of it until it
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happened again and again some help in
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the shoe department at this store John
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gets instant attention and aah Artie
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welcome yet when Glenn walks in just
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three minutes later the salesman looks
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away we run a stop watch as the salesman
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continues to stare past no hearty
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welcome for him I was standing there and
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standing there and standing there and
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John just barely skirts the fringe of
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the department the guy comes over and
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he's joking he's laughing and that did
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not happen for me even when the two men
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stroll into a nearby car dealership
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Glenn walks up to a new car right in
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front of the showroom window once again
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we run the clock I walked around the car
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kicked the tires look under the rear at
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the muffler it's an enormous amount of
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time to me stand there and wait uh for
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me to spend my money so you're clear
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that they knew you were there
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yes there was a black salesman who
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looked at me
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and then looked away a black salesman
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the same salesman who was there in an
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instant a moment John set foot on the
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lot what about that what about that
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Julianne Malveaux and Clifford Alexander
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both study the social and economic
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consequences of race in America
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she's an economist at Berkeley he's a
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consultant and former Secretary of the
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army his life lesson is the same wife
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lesson that the white salesman got that
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this is a group of people that for some
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reason I should deal with differently
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despite the fact that I might make some
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money from that different treatment
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became apparent in another way when our
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two testers went to a record store
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John browses quietly so does Glenn in
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the background but now watch the
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salesman approaching from the left
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he stops next to Glenn he's not offering
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to help him he's tailing him and I moved
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he moves and I think after about the
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second or third time when that happened
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it suddenly dawned on me he is there
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strictly to follow me around I was
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surprised to see him trailing Glenn in
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the shop because it wasn't trailing me
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this salesman who followed Glenn around
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in that store men like that would say to
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you I'm this is not ray Savior black
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people commit more crime as a percentage
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of population that's why I followed them
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do you think that all 32 million black
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people should be judged by some
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statistic about crime in this society
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no but the questions about the trend of
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blame do we put on my case I rest my
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case it isn't a question of blaming the
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white person following it's a question
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of understanding why he follows if this
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man had behaved suspiciously if he had
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picked up something put it down for
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having his pocket that will be one thing
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he was browsing nearly every day or
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night someone treated Glenn like an
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outsider
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for instance one day we locked the two
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men out of their cars 40 feet away from
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each other
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Glenn struggles all alone to get into
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his car John on the other hand has a
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small crowd of passers-by offering
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information and help
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everybody who came by am i Connor it
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seemed had something to say to me and
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you know help no one one night John and
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Glenn go for a walk in downtown st.
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Louis one just ahead of the other but
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when a police car passes by it's Glenn
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who gets the pointed once-over when you
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got to where John was he rolled right by
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John but he stopped leaned out the
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window just to inspect you yes and not
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another night walking on a residential
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street in white South st. Louis a truck
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slows down next to Glenn our microphone
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van leaning out and telling Glenn he's
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in the wrong neighborhood poor thought
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man hey the implication there was we
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were not where we were supposed to be
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which is in the north part of st. Louis
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as far as he was concerned yes so you're
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constantly doing this calculus of what
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am I gonna do about this am I gonna tell
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him the shove-it
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am I just gonna walk on by do I have the
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time the energy what is the cumulative
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effect of it how bad is this day in a
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day out
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it's the Carles kind of racism that if
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you accuse someone I would say oh gee
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that's not cross-burning and yet it
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still grinds exceedingly small everyday
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John and Glenn keep Diaries and the
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grinding is clear when we stop to ask
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about those impressions you think you
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could make it here no problem yeah I
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think that I thought I could make it
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here and set up here if I wanted knowing
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what has happened to me I think I would
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be fairly discouraged at this point
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already yes
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an emotional price is one thing it's
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still another when the price is money
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out of your pocket at a car dealership
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John was told he could get a car for
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almost nothing down
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Glenn's told he'll need at least $2,000
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down was it just a fluke they try a
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second lot they decide to ask about the
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same red convertible with the same
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salesman first how much of a down
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payment will be needed what do you think
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Lee asked down uh anywhere from ten to
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twenty percent so it's not bad sure well
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normally the bank's want anywhere from
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twenty to twenty-five
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Brandtner already John's advantages as
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much as $1000 and what about the price
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of the car you could probably pick it up
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for somewhere around the nine range nine
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I mean if I could get you in the car
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first say 95 even thank you be
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interested
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once again a big difference since we
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heard all of this from the van we
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decided to get out and see if we could
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get some answers the manager met us
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first what do we got today can we talk
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to John Navarre
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that salesman appeared and we asked him
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why John and Glenn were quoted different
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figures well they're all different just
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look at two guys come in looking the
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same car what's the difference for him
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the banks will do ten to twenty for him
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twenty twenty-five what's the difference
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depends on the other man they were
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looking at the same vehicle okay what's
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the difference we never did get an
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answer is there a difference and we're
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not the only ones asking that question
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Bert's a car salesman consistently
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regard blacks as less sophisticated
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customers and try to make them pay more
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the result according to a national study
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black Americans pay twice the markup
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that White's do at a cost of more than a
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hundred and fifty million dollars a year
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and another way african-americans pay
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for the color of their skin is job
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discrimination over several days John
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and Glenn apply for all kinds of jobs
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signing up for job services answering
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the want ads and from the very beginning
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we noticed something subtle but
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unmistakable not just what happens but
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how they're treated call tomorrow and
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ask for Don at a storefront job service
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both our testers pay a fee and sign up
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there John is told pleasantly it's
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against the rules to share a
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confidential job listing with a friend
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but when Glen gets that information it's
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a lecture complete with a little warning
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about laziness Oh what's your job I'm
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honored to you real close as I get
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people come in here give them good job
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lead they never show up
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how often how many times would you hear
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lectures about laziness our showing up
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or drug abuse quite often in a lot of
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the situations more than once
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John is encouraged about a job while
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Glen is turned down flat
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this dry-cleaning business has
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advertised for help out front at the
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counter unless you're filling out the
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present positions are taken
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positions available as far as I know yes
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since John and Glenn have dealt with
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different people we asked them each to
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go back a few days later to see if the
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same thing happens it does Glen is told
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John is told
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to some situations when you talk about a
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person's work that's life threatening to
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him that's what they do at this point
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there's only one more area to explore
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John and Glen need to find someplace to
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live right off we start hearing
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something different the Catholic Church
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for walking the street the building
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manager gives John a relaxed description
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of the area so you were being kind of
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welcome to the neighborhood yeah whereas
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I felt like I would be in boot camp and
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he was the drill instructor I'm sure huh
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I use where I am 24 mm he also made
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reference to the fact that he wanted to
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keep his building clean because it was
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not a ghetto there were other building
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managers who seemed perfectly cordial
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and businesslike was including all of
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this gas and electric yeah we're sure
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Glen left satisfied he had the same
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chance as anyone else at getting this
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apartment but five minutes later John
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arrived listen a good neighborhood so
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far pretty good yeah but they're moving
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in really yeah
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you
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it's going to be
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you have a nice day racism on the
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surface let me show you this place and
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you I'm not going to do anything illegal
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as soon as you're gone and one of them
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was just here and this is what happens
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when John and Glen spot this sign at
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another apartment building and go in to
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inquire John goes first the manager
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gives John a set of keys Jesus no
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where's your master
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ok ok John tours the vacant apartment
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he's told it's available immediately a
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little place I'm going to look at and if
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I decide of this when I'll be back
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my name is filled up ok ok I appreciate
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it all right thank you bless you have a
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good day John leaves and listen what
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happens when Glenn walks in suddenly the
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apartments been raised the manager
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explains that regrettably early that
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were a woman paid a deposit on the last
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available apartment Oh
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Holden earlier this morning there's
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nothing for Glen to see so he leaves bye
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you did very well ok once again we
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decide to go in search of an explanation
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may we ask you a couple of questions
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these two gentlemen came in and when
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this one came in you gave him keys to an
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apartment one bedroom with air
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conditioning but when this gentleman
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came in 10 minutes later you said there
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was no apartment available I told his
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gym I had a call on apartment but we
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pointed out what he had said he had told
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Lynn the apartment had been rented by a
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woman that morning yet he showed John
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the apartment in the afternoon
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Oh ma'am I am NOT prejudiced I can make
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skin I that Jewish my god how many black
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people in this apartment
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there's none at this point the building
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owner appeared trying to throw us out
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I'm asking you to move your camera all
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right
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it's okay we have never discriminated
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laws they don't have four or five kids
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we do have we do not have any empty so
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out later Glenn remembered the managers
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parting words he said bless you both
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and that infuriated me how dare you wish
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blessings on me after you have just
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insulted me after you have just told me
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that I can't live here because of the
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color of my skin we will have moved a
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step forward when white people feel as
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angry I made it and it's outraged about
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this as we driving we're not surprised
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but I whenever this is confronted I'm
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confronted with this I'm angry you're
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sitting in a democracy and you want to
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say Jane or Johnny you can go all the
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way this is open this is America but you
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know what just happened to you in the
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store and you know that that's America
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too in quite a few ways yes it has been
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rough after two and a half weeks our
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investigation is over and even these two
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professional discrimination testers say
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this was an experience that Oh eyes I
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didn't realize the big differences in
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all these situations and I couldn't
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really believe it that it was happening
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you walk down with suit and tie and it
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doesn't matter you carry yourself in a
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very respectful manner it doesn't matter
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someone will make determinations about
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you determinations that affect the
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quality of your life and the only basis
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is one thing that will not change about
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you I'm not going to take off but I'm
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going to be black forever a footnote we
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chose st. Louis for this report but we
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think it could have been any City and
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the National Studies on discrimination
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bear this out that's why our experts
00:16:02
Malvo and Alexander both wanted to
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emphasize that they think if things are
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going to change for black Americans and
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we'll only be when national leaders and
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business and politics say this can't go
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on it's just not fair and finally after
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we completed our interviews with John
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and Glenn here in New York we couldn't
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resist just one more test the two of
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them just a few blocks from our studio
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as
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each tried to catch in your cab to head
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home watch as the first cab sails
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straight past Glen to pick up John I
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gotta go to LaGuardia
