Radeon RX 9070 XT: How Can AMD Win Over Gamers?
概要
TLDRIn this Q&A session, hosts from Hard RUn Box discuss the state of the GPU market, particularly focusing on AMD's upcoming 9070 XT and NVIDIA's GeForce 50 Series. The conversation centers around the need for AMD to lower its prices significantly to be competitive with NVIDIA. They analyze AMD's past performance regarding pricing and market share and delve into the implications of NVIDIA's strategy which has resulted in a lack of lower-end graphics cards. The hosts also discuss anticipated performance improvements and the importance of maintaining strong relationships with AIB partners for future launches. They conclude by indicating that further discussions will continue in part three.
収穫
- 🎮 AMD must price their GPUs aggressively to attract gamers.
- 💸 A 20% discount from AMD may not be enough to drive sales.
- 🔍 The discussion highlights the disappearing low-end graphics card market.
- 🔥 NVIDIA appears focused on promoting higher-tier GPUs.
- 🤔 The hosts hint at the possibility of significant GPU improvements in future launches.
タイムライン
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
In this part of the February Q&A, the focus shifts to the GeForce 50 Series launch as well as AMD's upcoming Radeon 9070 XT. The discussion includes insights from the sponsor, Thermal Grizzly, about their new thermal paste, Durena, which promises exceptional stability and thermal conductivity. The hosts also emphasize the importance of price positioning for AMD's offerings to appeal to gamers.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
The hosts argue that AMD needs to offer a price advantage of at least 20% to make their GPUs appealing compared to Nvidia. Despite AMD previously achieving a 20% better value with their 7900 XTX, sales have not met expectations, indicating that gamers may require an even steeper discount or compelling features to consider switching brands.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Further, the discussion delves into the insufficient competitive performance of AMD GPUs in key areas, particularly ray tracing. For AMD to attract consumers, they must match Nvidia's offerings closely in terms of performance while maintaining price leadership, ideally at a 30% lower price point to entice skeptical gamers.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
The conversation shifts to consumer behavior regarding discounts, asserting that many would only consider a real change at a 20% discount rather than a mere 10%. The hosts reflect on real-world buying scenarios and how significant price cuts influence purchasing decisions.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Discussing Nvidia's market strategy, the hosts critique the lack of entry-level graphics cards, suggesting that Nvidia aims to drive customers towards higher-end models. The market is characterized as increasingly more about brand loyalty than genuine product competitiveness, concerning for gamers on a budget.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
In exploring past GPU performance improvements, the hosts analyze whether advancements are achievable without process node changes. They highlight Nvidia’s 980 TI as a best-case example of a significant performance increase at a reasonable price point, emphasizing the need for competitive pricing amid rising power consumption in current GPUs.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
There is discussion about the unpredictable nature of upcoming GPUs and how future AMD products may fare based on current market conditions. The hosts express optimism that realistic and aggressive pricing could prolong partnerships with AIBs and improve the overall health of AMD's GPU offerings.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
The hosts examine the necessity for AMD to revamp their GPUs necessitating strong ray tracing performance in new releases. They suggest that ray tracing should be a core feature but only if performance can match or exceed 60fps in relevant gaming scenarios; otherwise, its inclusion becomes a marketing gimmick rather than a functional upgrade for gamers.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:43
In concluding the Q&A, the hosts tease a third part where more questions will be addressed, highlighting the continuing critical discourse surrounding the GPU market as they invite audience engagement through platforms like Patreon and Discord.
マインドマップ
ビデオQ&A
What does AMD need to do to impress gamers with the 9070 XT?
AMD needs to offer a price at least 20% cheaper than NVIDIA's GPUs to impress gamers.
Is AMD pricing competitive enough in the GPU market?
Historically, AMD's pricing has been about 20% lower, but this has not translated into significant sales.
Why are low-end GPUs disappearing?
NVIDIA has shifted its focus to higher-end products, leading to fewer offerings in the low-end market.
Are we likely to see significant improvements in GPU performance without new technology?
Improvement typically comes from changes in the manufacturing process and architecture, making significant leaps harder without those advancements.
What impact do AIB relationships have on AMD's GPU launch?
Delayed launches may strain relationships with AIB partners, but successful launches can help maintain or improve those relationships.
ビデオをもっと見る
- 00:00:00[Music]
- 00:00:05welcome back to hard run box for part
- 00:00:07two of our February Q&A more questions
- 00:00:09to get to in this part because there
- 00:00:11were just so many great questions so
- 00:00:13many um negative questions to get to so
- 00:00:17we'll be talking a little bit about that
- 00:00:18but you know GeForce 50 Series has just
- 00:00:20been out so what are you going to do
- 00:00:21you're going to be talking about that
- 00:00:22sort of thing so I guess let's get into
- 00:00:25it today's sponsor spot is brought to
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- 00:01:03video
- 00:01:04description all right next question what
- 00:01:07does AMD need to do for the 9070 XT to
- 00:01:11impress you MH um so first of
- 00:01:15all I guess you're asking what it needs
- 00:01:17to do to impress me but realistically it
- 00:01:20doesn't need to impress me it needs to
- 00:01:22impress Gamers um I guess if I'm
- 00:01:24impressed then Gamers will possibly be
- 00:01:27impressed but having said that we've
- 00:01:30claimed that AMD need to be at least 20%
- 00:01:33cheaper rad on gpus need to be at least
- 00:01:3520% cheaper than GeForce gpus they have
- 00:01:38achieved that in the past and Gamers
- 00:01:40haven't really responded to it so we
- 00:01:43thought that was fairly impressive it's
- 00:01:45looking like they probably have to shoot
- 00:01:46more for 30% cheaper than GeForce GPS if
- 00:01:49they want to try and and look you can
- 00:01:51say that's unfair or this or that and
- 00:01:53sort of stamp your feet but it's like
- 00:01:55I'm not saying it Gamers at large are
- 00:01:57saying it so
- 00:02:00it's not the fan of like it's not the
- 00:02:02opinion of an AMD fan or whatever it's
- 00:02:03just reality they've offered 20% better
- 00:02:06value and they haven't sold um so yeah
- 00:02:10and if we look at like this I've got a
- 00:02:12few notes Here the 7900 XTX that was 20%
- 00:02:16better value than the RTX 4080 based on
- 00:02:19our day one review data um it's 22%
- 00:02:23better value based on the updated 5080
- 00:02:25review data so it's it's in that 20%
- 00:02:28range and again it didn't sell that well
- 00:02:32and it's not a super favorable
- 00:02:34comparison anyway because I don't think
- 00:02:36the RTX 480 sold that well so yeah but
- 00:02:40it was similar with like a 7800 XT
- 00:02:42versus 570 I think the the 7800 XT
- 00:02:45because the 570 was uh $100 more
- 00:02:48expensive it turned out that the value
- 00:02:50was about 20% better and again same same
- 00:02:53sort of scenario yeah so they've
- 00:02:55maintained or at least for the the
- 00:02:57current or outgoing generation for the
- 00:03:00most of the parts around a 20%
- 00:03:02discount and we thought that's probably
- 00:03:05what they would need to do in order to
- 00:03:06sell well having said
- 00:03:08that we are being a bit generous here
- 00:03:10because that wasn't always the case for
- 00:03:12products at launch so the the pricing
- 00:03:15for quite a few of the products were
- 00:03:17screwed up like 7700 XT should have
- 00:03:19started
- 00:03:20$400 um the RX 7600 should have started
- 00:03:22at
- 00:03:23$250 uh the 700 XT probably should have
- 00:03:26started at more like 700 750 so
- 00:03:30quite a few Key Products within that
- 00:03:33lineup uh didn't start where they should
- 00:03:35have yeah uh I think when you were going
- 00:03:38through all those numbers just then a
- 00:03:40lot of it was focused on just the
- 00:03:42rasterization performance of the card
- 00:03:44and the value that it needs to be
- 00:03:46relative to that whereas I think part of
- 00:03:48the issue that amd's had is that that's
- 00:03:51really been the only strength of a radon
- 00:03:53GPU like if you look and maybe vram as
- 00:03:56well if you look across most of the
- 00:03:58other aspects to the card like R Trac
- 00:03:59performance which does matter in like a
- 00:04:01XTX type of price tier upscaling other
- 00:04:05feature quality a lot of those things
- 00:04:07are not really in amd's favor and I
- 00:04:09would say that if AMD was able to make a
- 00:04:13car that's identical to a GeForce GPU in
- 00:04:16everything so raster performance R
- 00:04:18tracing performance upscaling quality is
- 00:04:20the same other features are the same
- 00:04:23everything right so par par exact parody
- 00:04:26not not just parody and raster but I
- 00:04:28mean true parody
- 00:04:30I reckon for that card to sell on the
- 00:04:32current market it would need to be 20%
- 00:04:33cheaper and my reasoning for that is it
- 00:04:36can't be the same price right because
- 00:04:38just because of brand power people would
- 00:04:40buy an Nvidia GPU but I think beyond
- 00:04:42that if you think of like well you got
- 00:04:44to convert people yeah you got to
- 00:04:45convert that's what the statistic is
- 00:04:46telling you yes statistically you own a
- 00:04:49GeForce GPU for you to own a radon GPU
- 00:04:52need to be converted what's converting
- 00:04:54you exactly and so if I if let's say the
- 00:04:57parody model AMD carard was 10 % cheaper
- 00:05:01I I think of like sales for products for
- 00:05:04example could be any product situation
- 00:05:07it's like is it am I going to wait
- 00:05:09around to get a product for a 10%
- 00:05:11discount or is like a a Black Friday
- 00:05:13sale for a 10% off on something is that
- 00:05:16really changing my mind all that much to
- 00:05:18me a 10% discount it's
- 00:05:21like okay it's okay but and that's on
- 00:05:23the product you've decided to buy though
- 00:05:25that that's right so it's like it's
- 00:05:27that's what I was saying it's like the
- 00:05:28devil you know you
- 00:05:30you know what they offer why risk
- 00:05:32thewitch for 10% saving exactly so if
- 00:05:36I'm thinking about like what looks like
- 00:05:37a good discount to me on a parody
- 00:05:39product sales that sort of thing when I
- 00:05:42start when my head starts to get turned
- 00:05:44for something it's a 20% discount like
- 00:05:46if I've waited to buy a vacuum cleaner
- 00:05:48or something and the model I'm
- 00:05:49interested in is now 20% cheaper an
- 00:05:51equivalent model is now 20% cheaper I'm
- 00:05:54like oh interesting maybe now is the
- 00:05:57time I should be buying that vacuum
- 00:05:58cleaner and so when I think about run
- 00:06:00the Dyson ad please I've always tried to
- 00:06:02break new ground in vacuum technology
- 00:06:04Dyson airra
- 00:06:06Styler one thinking about AMD product
- 00:06:09pricing again for parody 20% and then
- 00:06:12then adjust from there based on the
- 00:06:14actual quality of the product so for
- 00:06:17example if they manag to get rate
- 00:06:19tracing performance about the same as
- 00:06:20Nvidia then good you can probably get it
- 00:06:22a bit closer to that 20% mark But if
- 00:06:25rate tracing is still pretty weak then
- 00:06:27yeah you're probably going to need to
- 00:06:28take off another 10 to 20% on the price
- 00:06:31if FSR 4 is significantly worse than
- 00:06:34deals S4 again you're probably going to
- 00:06:36need to take off 10 to 20% of the price
- 00:06:39and that's where you start to get to the
- 00:06:4130 to 40% price discount that you were
- 00:06:45talking about M so I think that all that
- 00:06:48stuff like again You' be talking about
- 00:06:51like a what like an $800 GPU being $500
- 00:06:54which sounds like a pretty significant
- 00:06:55discount but just think about like a
- 00:06:57$7,900 XD for $500 probably would have
- 00:07:00flown off the shelves yeah I mean I can
- 00:07:02see people arguing with you in the
- 00:07:04comments getting upset about you know
- 00:07:06you're being unrealistic they don't need
- 00:07:08to be that cheap but it's like I don't
- 00:07:10know reality you're living but we've
- 00:07:12just explained that in almost all
- 00:07:14instances they've been offering a 20%
- 00:07:15discount MH have not been selling like
- 00:07:18market share smaller that's right I
- 00:07:20think if the 7900 XT XTX was identical
- 00:07:24to a 480 in every way then it probably
- 00:07:27would have sold a lot better at the,
- 00:07:29price point but people would have looked
- 00:07:31at the reviews and gone rization
- 00:07:33performance like if I'm playing Esports
- 00:07:35games or don't really care about R
- 00:07:37Racing then great buy and those are
- 00:07:39probably the people that bought an XTX
- 00:07:42right but then people interested in some
- 00:07:44of those higher tier features would have
- 00:07:45been
- 00:07:46like I'll just get a 4080 and then of
- 00:07:50course AMD is also fighting against
- 00:07:52people that don't read reviews so they
- 00:07:53have to start they have to start with
- 00:07:56the Enthusiast crowd getting those
- 00:07:58people really interested so that flows
- 00:07:59to the rest of the market whereas again
- 00:08:01like most people just immediately buy
- 00:08:03the gForce GPU no matter what and so is
- 00:08:06a small discount turning people's heads
- 00:08:09changing the minds of those sort of more
- 00:08:11normal casual PC
- 00:08:14Gamers no is that no it's proven no yeah
- 00:08:18so yeah I think AMD definitely has a
- 00:08:21chance to do all this stuff it's just a
- 00:08:23matter of doing it and executing it and
- 00:08:25impressing us with these sorts of things
- 00:08:27on top of that they still need to make
- 00:08:28sure the hardware isn't terrible they
- 00:08:30can't just launch cards with inadequate
- 00:08:32vram missing video encoders not enough v
- 00:08:35um not enough display outputs I'm
- 00:08:37talking about a 6500 XT like you can't
- 00:08:40release that product and like there's no
- 00:08:42price of that card would have been like
- 00:08:44wow unless it was like I guess $50 or
- 00:08:46something $50 would have been acceptable
- 00:08:49but yeah so as long as the hardware is
- 00:08:51reasonable I feel like a lot of what
- 00:08:53we've been talking about is not crazy
- 00:08:55stuff like it's not outrageous to
- 00:08:57suggest that if in if AMD made a 57 TI
- 00:09:01type of product they'd need to have
- 00:09:03pricing around the sort of $500 $550
- 00:09:06range um but we'll see we'll see what
- 00:09:08they end up doing mhm is the reason why
- 00:09:11there's no 50 class cards anymore
- 00:09:13because each generation of cards has
- 00:09:15been stepped down 80 class is more like
- 00:09:1770 7060 and 6050 uh yeah pretty much I
- 00:09:23think I think that's part of it I think
- 00:09:24another thing that you've talked about a
- 00:09:26bit in our podcast shout out to the hard
- 00:09:27run box podcast is NVIDIA just not
- 00:09:30caring about low-end Gamers anymore uh
- 00:09:34the whole strategy seems to be to drag
- 00:09:36people up to higher and higher price
- 00:09:37points by kind of making it so that cars
- 00:09:40even in the 60 tier are kind of like the
- 00:09:42trash tier poo type of stuff that you
- 00:09:44just wouldn't consider and so the idea
- 00:09:47is that you try and convince everyone
- 00:09:48that the 5090 is really the only GPU
- 00:09:51that you should be considering for
- 00:09:52example like why doesn't the 5070 have
- 00:09:55more than 12 gab of vram it's not
- 00:09:57because of any reason outside of they
- 00:09:59don't really consider that to be a very
- 00:10:01good product they are limiting the vram
- 00:10:04on purpose so that yeah it's limited
- 00:10:06it's a limited GPU so why you're buying
- 00:10:09it you peasant go buy 5080 that's or
- 00:10:125090 those are the cars that give you
- 00:10:13the full experience of the gForce range
- 00:10:16and if that's happening at a 5070 level
- 00:10:19why bother with the 50/50 like you just
- 00:10:21wouldn't make it yeah if they could be
- 00:10:22honest they'd want to call it the 5070
- 00:10:25compromised yeah like instead of the ti
- 00:10:27it just be the compromised Edition I
- 00:10:29want you to know if you buy this it is a
- 00:10:33more affordable product but it's the
- 00:10:35compromised one so don't winge that it's
- 00:10:37not that fast or you haven't got enough
- 00:10:39vram you are knowingly buying the
- 00:10:41compromised version you should
- 00:10:42definitely spend more money and to be
- 00:10:44clear like this isn't our assumption at
- 00:10:46CES I talked to some people at Nvidia
- 00:10:49about like why does the 570 have only 12
- 00:10:52GB of vram and they were basically
- 00:10:54saying well yeah it's it's a compromised
- 00:10:57card like we're not expecting this GPU
- 00:10:59to be able to do everything so we've
- 00:11:01made that card for that reason like Yeah
- 00:11:04it's you're going to find some like they
- 00:11:06even said to us Steve will find some
- 00:11:08examples where the 5070 will have vram
- 00:11:11issues like they're not denying it or
- 00:11:13anything they used to they they used to
- 00:11:15but they at least in the meetings that
- 00:11:16we had they're just
- 00:11:18confirming that yeah if you want the
- 00:11:21full exp if you want to be able to turn
- 00:11:22every feature on that's not what a 57 is
- 00:11:25for MH that's what a 59 is for yeah so
- 00:11:29that and of course it used to be the
- 00:11:30case where 70 class cards actually could
- 00:11:33give you a reasonable experience and it
- 00:11:34was more for high resolution gaming or
- 00:11:36super high frame rate gaming that you
- 00:11:38would need those High tier products
- 00:11:39whereas today it's it's a lot more
- 00:11:41feature locked like there are just some
- 00:11:42cards where yeah you might not be able
- 00:11:44to do even what wheel class reasonable
- 00:11:46gaming so why would you make a 50/50
- 00:11:48yeah they're so dominant now that
- 00:11:50they're one step away from actually
- 00:11:51making vram something they Market where
- 00:11:54it's like I don't think they're one step
- 00:11:55away they are doing that with this
- 00:11:57generation essentially well
- 00:11:59they're trying for example if you're
- 00:12:01after a 70 class card and you want
- 00:12:03enough vram to the the minimum card you
- 00:12:07need is a 55070 TI and that's a $750
- 00:12:09card they're trying to convert people
- 00:12:11that would have bought the 70 to now buy
- 00:12:14the 70 TI it seems pretty clear from the
- 00:12:17lineup that that's the goal of this
- 00:12:19generation so yeah I don't think we'll
- 00:12:22ever see a 5050 interesting question
- 00:12:25this one has Nvidia or AMD ever
- 00:12:27delivered a significant performance
- 00:12:28increase with without a process node
- 00:12:30Improvement for the GPU core is much of
- 00:12:32the 59s performance uplift just coming
- 00:12:34from the die size increase what the
- 00:12:37second part basically yes yes so I think
- 00:12:39we alluded to this in part one of the
- 00:12:40Q&A series
- 00:12:42but uh so kepo Maxwell were both tsmc 28
- 00:12:50so same same manufacturing process
- 00:12:52between those two series and quite
- 00:12:55interestingly so the 980 TI
- 00:12:59was only 7% larger than the 782 I so
- 00:13:02that's pretty small yeah not that much
- 00:13:04of a difference
- 00:13:06and I believe it was around 30% faster
- 00:13:10the 980ti so pretty good I didn't go and
- 00:13:14deep dive into the performance there but
- 00:13:16it looks like it was about a 30%
- 00:13:17performance uplift and so you might
- 00:13:20think that's interesting because I think
- 00:13:23the 982 I was quite well well received
- 00:13:26certainly I think by reviews more so
- 00:13:28than the
- 00:13:295090 and we're talking about a similar
- 00:13:32generation on generation performance
- 00:13:34uplift while remaining on the same
- 00:13:36process node so that's pretty
- 00:13:38interesting example
- 00:13:40right but the
- 00:13:42problem uh well the problem start to
- 00:13:44arise when you look a bit deeper into it
- 00:13:47so the MSRP was lowered by 8% so it went
- 00:13:53down from $700 for the 780 Ti to
- 00:13:56$650 for the 980ti
- 00:13:59and on top of that you got twice as much
- 00:14:01of your RAM so you went up from 3 GB to
- 00:14:046
- 00:14:05GB so that's probably why it was well
- 00:14:08received at the time I definitely
- 00:14:10remember the 980ti being popular yeah it
- 00:14:12also overclocked really well but that's
- 00:14:14a separate benefit
- 00:14:16um
- 00:14:18so for the 5090 to be similar in terms
- 00:14:24of like what we saw back then it' have
- 00:14:26to cost no more than $1,500 an 8%
- 00:14:29reduction would actually be like
- 00:14:31$1,470 sure but that would be rounded up
- 00:14:33to $1,500 as an MSRP reasonably that's
- 00:14:36reasonable yeah yeah so it have to be
- 00:14:38$1,500 which I think we said if they had
- 00:14:40have actually lowed the MSRP by $100 I
- 00:14:42think it was on the podcast we're
- 00:14:43talking about that uh I guess 48 GB of
- 00:14:46vram probably a less important thing 32
- 00:14:49GB is sufficient yeah 32 gig is a good
- 00:14:51Improvement um and the other thing was
- 00:14:54that the 980ti used roughly the same
- 00:14:58power as the 782 at least based on the
- 00:15:01data that I went back and looked at so
- 00:15:03they got a good architectural gain yeah
- 00:15:05so 7% bigger but 30% more performance
- 00:15:07roughly same power
- 00:15:10whereas what is it like 27% faster on
- 00:15:12average for the 90 for around 30% more
- 00:15:15power I think people would forgive that
- 00:15:17though if they hit the other two as like
- 00:15:19the value aspect the vram is obviously
- 00:15:22actually sure but I mean if you add all
- 00:15:24those things together it's like yes
- 00:15:26that's why the 980ti was much better
- 00:15:29received M because of all of those
- 00:15:31things I I want to read this cuz when I
- 00:15:34was I was when I was researching this I
- 00:15:36read probably six different reviews you
- 00:15:38know tech power up Guru 3D and antech
- 00:15:42rip and antech sad times how is this so
- 00:15:45this is one paragraph from the anant
- 00:15:48conclusion so they said so this is for
- 00:15:50the 980 TI review in their
- 00:15:53conclusion they said it's still not
- 00:15:55enough to double GTX 780s per
- 00:15:58performance M nor are we going to get
- 00:16:01there until 16 nanm but it's a bright
- 00:16:03spot for those who may want to upgrade a
- 00:16:05bit sooner than
- 00:16:072016 on the other hand GTX 780ti owners
- 00:16:11will almost certainly want to hold off
- 00:16:13for the next Generation despite the name
- 00:16:15so basically back then they were saying
- 00:16:18because it's not double the performance
- 00:16:20like it's not an insane yeah perform
- 00:16:24upgrade so that's that was pretty wild
- 00:16:26going back and reading that and then
- 00:16:27obviously you know the 30% you
- 00:16:29definitely don't upgrade it for 30% more
- 00:16:30performance that's yeah crazy talk yeah
- 00:16:33I mean times have changed obviously but
- 00:16:35a lot of what you were talking about
- 00:16:37with the value of that product probably
- 00:16:38did hold true for like a 490 versus 390
- 00:16:41at least at MSRP because it was
- 00:16:42significantly faster the price didn't
- 00:16:44increase that much I guess it did have
- 00:16:46the same level of vram so you didn't
- 00:16:47really get that Advantage but obviously
- 00:16:50that was a very a different generation
- 00:16:52but yeah I mean it was interesting that
- 00:16:54same node they were able to lower the
- 00:16:55performance uh lower the price sorry and
- 00:16:58I believe that probably is because the
- 00:16:59Wafers would have gotten cheaper between
- 00:17:02in the time between the two generations
- 00:17:04yeah I think about 18 months so usually
- 00:17:05when you buy Wafers right the start of
- 00:17:07when a node's available you hit with a
- 00:17:09kind of a double whammy the the price of
- 00:17:11the Wafers is probably at its highest
- 00:17:14and also the yields will be at their
- 00:17:15lowest so you're kind of hit with you
- 00:17:17know it'll cost you the most at that
- 00:17:19time to get a dive a certain size then
- 00:17:21later in the nodes life cycle generally
- 00:17:24speaking especially if they've launched
- 00:17:26an even newer node um the node the old
- 00:17:29node will get cheaper and then the
- 00:17:30yields will be improved as well so
- 00:17:32you'll be you'll get more usable dieses
- 00:17:34out of a single wafer and so that's
- 00:17:37likely why they were able to take a
- 00:17:40similar or even slightly larger die and
- 00:17:42actually reduce the price I doubt that
- 00:17:45it cost them margins to do that there
- 00:17:47would have been more competition back
- 00:17:49then as well from Radeon um that would
- 00:17:51have been what like the like the 290 era
- 00:17:54R9 290 those are pretty good gpus from
- 00:17:57memory M um so so yeah competition would
- 00:17:59have affected that as well but yeah just
- 00:18:02not happening these days is it are we
- 00:18:05ever going to get an unambiguously good
- 00:18:07GPU again not an it depends card but an
- 00:18:10actual straightup recommendation GeForce
- 00:18:12has lost the plot radio never had it and
- 00:18:14Intel can't decide if it wants to exist
- 00:18:16right now so I'm concerned we're going
- 00:18:17to have to deal with gpus being
- 00:18:19overpriced and unpe for a while I mean
- 00:18:22there's so many different ways you can
- 00:18:24answer this um we have the new radon
- 00:18:27gpus coming up
- 00:18:29what they do no idea could be just
- 00:18:32another big old flop they could actually
- 00:18:34get serious and want to turn things
- 00:18:36around at radi want to
- 00:18:38be I was going to
- 00:18:40say like seriously aggressive or super
- 00:18:43aggressive on pricing but I feel like
- 00:18:45that's making it sound like they're
- 00:18:46doing something
- 00:18:47bold by being what we would sort of
- 00:18:49think as being super aggressive is kind
- 00:18:51of the minimum of what they need to do
- 00:18:54in order to sell them yes
- 00:18:56so anyway there's there's that angle but
- 00:18:59then there's just the angle
- 00:19:03of it is what it
- 00:19:06is
- 00:19:09because cards like the 90 the 58 like
- 00:19:13reviewers universally Cann the 80 I
- 00:19:17would say 90% of all 580 reviews
- 00:19:20globally were negative some of them
- 00:19:23highly negative and the retailers I
- 00:19:26spoke to they were like we didn't get
- 00:19:29that many 508s like we were hoping to
- 00:19:31get more and then we saw you know we got
- 00:19:34previews of reviews and stuff we were a
- 00:19:35bit worried that we overbought and
- 00:19:37they're like they all sold like hotcakes
- 00:19:39gone the astral model from
- 00:19:43Asus it's like 50% over MSRP gone
- 00:19:48whatever and and one of the retailers I
- 00:19:49spoke to said they got that was one of
- 00:19:51the higher volume cards was the astral
- 00:19:56gone so I know that's a IAL demand and
- 00:20:00maybe that won't be sustained for the
- 00:20:01next 12 to 24 months well it's at least
- 00:20:0412 months and they'll probably refresh
- 00:20:05it right so how well will that be
- 00:20:08sustained over the next 12 months and
- 00:20:10what will GPU shipments look like and
- 00:20:12GPU shipments even if they're in Decline
- 00:20:15doesn't tell the story because it
- 00:20:17profits can be massively up because
- 00:20:19they're making so much more per unit
- 00:20:21yeah so thinking that prices will come
- 00:20:24down because maybe GPU shipments have
- 00:20:26come down is a misleading statistic but
- 00:20:29I just
- 00:20:30think I don't know I don't know we
- 00:20:33always heard for a long time that you
- 00:20:34know GPU prices are creeping up because
- 00:20:36of reviewers it's reviewers fault
- 00:20:38they're creating hyper and these
- 00:20:39products and people still buying them
- 00:20:41it's quite clearly not the you know
- 00:20:44reviewers to be blamed here um again
- 00:20:475080 reviews were quite negative almost
- 00:20:50universally cards sell like hotcakes at
- 00:20:53just absolutely absurd I mean $1,000 us
- 00:20:57you might not say that's absurd I think
- 00:20:58that's absurd for that particular
- 00:20:59product it definitely needed to be
- 00:21:01cheaper especially given that you could
- 00:21:02acquire pretty much the same performance
- 00:21:0412 months prior so I don't get the 80
- 00:21:07hype at all there's no extra vram
- 00:21:09there's yeah but I mean if there was
- 00:21:11competition for that card then maybe
- 00:21:14that wouldn't have happened well that's
- 00:21:16right I mean it is still technically
- 00:21:18speaking the best value product at that
- 00:21:20performance tier um yeah so I mean like
- 00:21:24I get what this question is coming from
- 00:21:25because we've seen a lot of quite poor
- 00:21:27launches I'm still firmly of the belief
- 00:21:30that there is no technical reason why
- 00:21:34graphics cards have to be underwhelming
- 00:21:36like there's there's no reason I can see
- 00:21:38where it's like they can't adjust the
- 00:21:40price to a position where it would get a
- 00:21:42good review where they can't Speck it in
- 00:21:44a way that would get a good review a lot
- 00:21:46of cards would be fixed with just more
- 00:21:48vram for example yeah but that cost you
- 00:21:50more money it cuts into margin yeah but
- 00:21:52but what I'm saying is right
- 00:21:54like there are limits to how cheap a GPU
- 00:21:57could be like
- 00:22:02aacac Marg or whatever we're not
- 00:22:06anywhere close to that if we were close
- 00:22:07to that like they were selling 90 size
- 00:22:10dies for like $500 I'd be like yeah look
- 00:22:13guys like they probably we run the
- 00:22:15numbers but like we they probably can't
- 00:22:17physically make that card that much
- 00:22:19cheaper like that's probably the limits
- 00:22:22but there's just no indication that
- 00:22:24that's true the the issue with why cards
- 00:22:26are so underwhelming I strongly believe
- 00:22:29is what you're saying about people just
- 00:22:31buying the cards outright with no no
- 00:22:34concern at all for how bad they are but
- 00:22:36also the the lack of competition and the
- 00:22:39lack of moves being made to make cards
- 00:22:41good like if a couple of small steps
- 00:22:44would probably make a lot of these
- 00:22:45gpus much much better like if the 5080
- 00:22:48was like 10% better value the review
- 00:22:51would have been significantly different
- 00:22:54which seems to not matter yeah I know I
- 00:22:56was reviewing the astral 580 that video
- 00:22:59should already be out by now and I was
- 00:23:01just like this is so dumb so it's a
- 00:23:03$1,000 MSRP for the 580 astral um sorry
- 00:23:08the the 80 MSRP astral MSRP is 50%
- 00:23:12higher it's
- 00:23:14$1500 us mhm and I'm was like ridiculous
- 00:23:19uh don't I obviously don't recommend you
- 00:23:21spend $500 US 50% more on this product
- 00:23:24it is absolutely not worth it don't buy
- 00:23:26it um effectively a dumb product and I
- 00:23:29would even go as far as saying and it's
- 00:23:31sad that it's not it should be right
- 00:23:34Dead on Arrival yeah historically if a
- 00:23:38brand released their OC
- 00:23:41model even if it was a limited edition
- 00:23:44liquid cooled liquid metal Asus Matrix
- 00:23:48type card for 50% over MSRP like yeah
- 00:23:52that's just not going to sell and again
- 00:23:54it's just they're gone all the stock
- 00:23:57that they had day one gone
- 00:24:01so there is probably Limited in some way
- 00:24:04by how many they made yeah we'll have to
- 00:24:06see how it goes over the next few months
- 00:24:08but I'm sitting here saying don't buy
- 00:24:10this this is dumb I can't recommend it
- 00:24:11de on arrival essentially but also
- 00:24:14they're all sold out so I'm an idiot
- 00:24:17yeah I mean what do you I guess the the
- 00:24:20there's a number of different caveat to
- 00:24:21that writers like there's always going
- 00:24:23to be some percentage of people who are
- 00:24:25just nonsensical buyers like they make
- 00:24:27completely a logical decision ISS you
- 00:24:29see that with many different product
- 00:24:30categories where just things you just
- 00:24:32would never imagine would sell they sell
- 00:24:35and I guess if Supply is really limited
- 00:24:37then if that fixed number of really
- 00:24:40nonsensical buyers are the only ones
- 00:24:41buying anything and the stocks really
- 00:24:43limited that it kind of makes sense why
- 00:24:45it would would sell out but I feel like
- 00:24:48there's not it's not just nonsensical
- 00:24:50buyers while that is a large portional I
- 00:24:52think there's a lot of people there's
- 00:24:54like fomo and stuff like people are
- 00:24:56seeing the stock levels of these gpus
- 00:24:58maybe they went to buy 590 they tried to
- 00:25:01buy one in the first 30 seconds they're
- 00:25:02like there's no stock oh my God Panic
- 00:25:05stations what can I get like I've
- 00:25:08committed to buying a GP there's no 59s
- 00:25:09oh do I get a
- 00:25:11580 yeah I've got $2,000 to spend
- 00:25:14there's a Rog astral I have to make a
- 00:25:15decision within the next like 20 seconds
- 00:25:18or they'll sell out because the 590 is
- 00:25:19already gone I guess I'll just buy the
- 00:25:21580 astral I've done it I've bought it
- 00:25:24yeah which again which is why we were
- 00:25:25saying like was when we were speculating
- 00:25:27was that the plan well it's potentially
- 00:25:31part of it I'm guessing because like as
- 00:25:33ridiculous as that might sound that that
- 00:25:36mindset of buying in that way to some
- 00:25:38people but people really do buy products
- 00:25:40like that people really do see things
- 00:25:42that are selling out quickly and while
- 00:25:45that may be manufactured because there's
- 00:25:47not enough Supply or anything that does
- 00:25:48affect your mindset going into buying
- 00:25:50things whereas if there were thousands
- 00:25:52of 508s on shelves and you could come an
- 00:25:55hour later and they're still available
- 00:25:57people come in with a clearer mind
- 00:25:59they've thought more about their
- 00:26:00decisions whereas with these GPU
- 00:26:03launches now it feels like a lot of it
- 00:26:04is designed to force people into these
- 00:26:06quick decisions uh For Better or Worse
- 00:26:09probably worse whereas for me like a
- 00:26:11$1,500 580 that thing better be
- 00:26:13goldplated signed by the CEO like coming
- 00:26:16coming with a ticket to Disneyland or
- 00:26:18something because there's no way I'm
- 00:26:19paying a $500 premium for it it's absurd
- 00:26:22so yeah I basically while things Remain
- 00:26:25the way they are then no you're not
- 00:26:27going to good value gpus
- 00:26:30again um and there was hints that it was
- 00:26:33going to go this way uh when the first
- 00:26:36probably probably by the second
- 00:26:37cryptocurrency boom occurred and then
- 00:26:40you know we got the next one and then we
- 00:26:41transitioned into
- 00:26:43Ai and these companies got sort of a
- 00:26:47taste for the the huge margins and
- 00:26:48they're like well how can we sustain
- 00:26:50these how can we manipulate the market
- 00:26:52in a way that allows us to sell th000
- 00:26:55$2,000 graphics cards and and here we
- 00:26:59are yep I
- 00:27:01mean I wouldn't say it's all doom and
- 00:27:04gloom because with the 40 series for
- 00:27:05example there were cards that were
- 00:27:07unattractive enough to prompt a response
- 00:27:10from Nvidia so the RTX 480 for example
- 00:27:14did sit on shelves and the result of
- 00:27:17that was the 480 super came out which
- 00:27:19provided much better value now whether
- 00:27:21or not the 480 super was an amazing
- 00:27:24product probably not but if the 480 was
- 00:27:28lying off shelves in the way the 580 has
- 00:27:30there is no way they would have made the
- 00:27:31480 super the configuration and price
- 00:27:33that they did yeah which so essentially
- 00:27:35the hope is what we're seeing now is a
- 00:27:37bit of a misread on the situation you
- 00:27:40get a month or two down the track and
- 00:27:425080 sales have just slowed to a cwel
- 00:27:44and it's the the 4080 all over again mhm
- 00:27:48that that's I guess the Hope on our
- 00:27:50end or or there's really compelling
- 00:27:52competition it's just one of one of two
- 00:27:54options and that's what we're going to
- 00:27:57have to hope for I guess yep how much
- 00:27:59potential damage is being done with aib
- 00:28:01relationships with amd's canell launch
- 00:28:04of the 9070 XT cancel is the right word
- 00:28:08maybe uh unexpectedly delayed but anyway
- 00:28:12um were the aibs uh already or where the
- 00:28:16aibs already had cards in stock ready to
- 00:28:18launch at retailers will the aibs uh
- 00:28:21have to rol their offerings to be able
- 00:28:24to produce the cards that have the same
- 00:28:27profit margin at the expected lower
- 00:28:29price points um I mean first of all we
- 00:28:32don't even really know what price points
- 00:28:34they were legitimately targeting and how
- 00:28:37that all works but obviously there's
- 00:28:39ways around those issues but is it
- 00:28:42hurting the relationship with aibs I
- 00:28:45think they were kind of on thin ice with
- 00:28:48probably some of their Partners to begin
- 00:28:49with anyway um we sort of heard that MSI
- 00:28:52dropped off because of these sort of
- 00:28:55issues but we think the steps I think we
- 00:28:58both agree the steps that they've taken
- 00:28:59so far are the correct steps in ensuring
- 00:29:02they don't just do the same old dumb
- 00:29:04thing they've been doing generation
- 00:29:05after generation and failing hopefully
- 00:29:07they're waiting for the actual uh
- 00:29:11competition to launch and they can come
- 00:29:13in and Crush that competition yeah
- 00:29:15hopefully they're not going to come in
- 00:29:17and undercut the competition by $50 or
- 00:29:19margins they've done before that haven't
- 00:29:21seen their GPU sell well which is up to
- 00:29:23around 20% hopefully they just really
- 00:29:25come in and they just offer something
- 00:29:27that just makes it for most
- 00:29:30people
- 00:29:31uh a situation where they're just not
- 00:29:33going to buy a GeForce GPU so what we
- 00:29:36talked about earlier converting people
- 00:29:37to the radio on brand they have to
- 00:29:40release something so compel compelling
- 00:29:42that you just wouldn't even uh consider
- 00:29:45buying the GeForce GPU I think that that
- 00:29:48strategy if that works is going to do a
- 00:29:51world of good for the relationships with
- 00:29:53brand partners because yeah brands are
- 00:29:57probably a little upset that the cards
- 00:30:00that they were expecting to launch in
- 00:30:01January then they have to wait on them
- 00:30:02until to release them to march like
- 00:30:05that's probably not the best idea in
- 00:30:07terms of building relationships with
- 00:30:09your brand Partners but you know what
- 00:30:10would fix that is if cards were flying
- 00:30:13off shelves because they're so popular
- 00:30:15yeah the alternative would have been to
- 00:30:16do what they did last time which is
- 00:30:17launch now at an unattractive price and
- 00:30:20then have them not sell and then turn
- 00:30:23around to the partners and say well
- 00:30:24we're slashing the prices anyway which
- 00:30:27is you talk about so the inevitable
- 00:30:29happens and then you don't there's no
- 00:30:32hype around the product so the the price
- 00:30:34gets slashed anyway so the inevitable
- 00:30:37plays out but all the negative reviews
- 00:30:39are still there or the lukewarm reviews
- 00:30:41or the you know wait wait for the RTX
- 00:30:44competition to launch and then we'll
- 00:30:46make our decision then the RTX
- 00:30:48competition launches and we're like eh
- 00:30:50the radio on gpus is just not AR cheap
- 00:30:52enough these are better you might as
- 00:30:54well buy the GeForce GPU for these
- 00:30:56reasons yeah and history repeats itself
- 00:31:00I think the pricing doesn't affect the
- 00:31:03offerings of the card all that much
- 00:31:06because aibs they're always operating on
- 00:31:09a a margin relative to the price that
- 00:31:12it's going to cost them for the GPU so
- 00:31:14it's not like they've gone oh we've made
- 00:31:17this card for $600 and now amd's made it
- 00:31:20$500 therefore we're losing $100 on
- 00:31:23every model it's more they're factoring
- 00:31:26in well the stuff where adding to the
- 00:31:28card is costing us $50 so we're going to
- 00:31:32price our card whatever you the MSRP is
- 00:31:35plus $50 for the premium model or plus 0
- 00:31:38for the MSRP model or whatever that's
- 00:31:40all factored into margin type discussion
- 00:31:42the only way that'd really get burnt is
- 00:31:44if for example they decided to make a
- 00:31:47super premium model like a liquid cooled
- 00:31:49model or an astral or something like
- 00:31:51that and then it turns out the product
- 00:31:54line actually isn't really well suited
- 00:31:56to a high-end card so if they're
- 00:31:58expecting it to be a $1,000 GPU it's
- 00:32:00actually a $500 GPU and they've made
- 00:32:03these ridiculously overpriced coolers
- 00:32:05that are costing them a fortune to make
- 00:32:07that that's how they would get burnt but
- 00:32:09I think with most normal coolers most
- 00:32:12normal offerings if AMD changes the
- 00:32:15price by $1 or $200 it's not going to
- 00:32:17impact that side of things all that much
- 00:32:20obviously the percentage differences
- 00:32:22price over the MSRP will change a little
- 00:32:24bit but I think most aibs will will be
- 00:32:26able to cope with that sort of situation
- 00:32:28pretty well and even with things like
- 00:32:30price Cuts after the fact it does annoy
- 00:32:32aibs when that happens but again it's
- 00:32:35not like am cuts the price than aibs are
- 00:32:37forced to sell cards at a loss there are
- 00:32:39rebates at the back end and incentives
- 00:32:42uh We've even heard times when you know
- 00:32:44the the manufacturer ofo like power
- 00:32:47color or Sapphire or one of those Brands
- 00:32:50XFX
- 00:32:51actually they they still get the MSRP
- 00:32:54price for the card but then the the
- 00:32:57discount may go to the retailer instead
- 00:32:58of the the aib so the retailer
- 00:33:01effectively pays the uh card
- 00:33:03manufacturer the full price and then AMD
- 00:33:07um reimburses the retailer effectively
- 00:33:09to get it down to say the $750 price for
- 00:33:12a 7900 XT so there's there's all sorts
- 00:33:14of different incentive patterns that can
- 00:33:15happen there so that yeah ret uh the
- 00:33:18aibs aren't just completely screwed when
- 00:33:20there's pricing adjustments but yeah I
- 00:33:24strongly think that if they they the
- 00:33:25launch goes well that this is only going
- 00:33:27to benefit the the partners
- 00:33:29significantly and I think they'll be
- 00:33:30pretty happy if the launch goes well
- 00:33:32let's say we have a GPU with atmost b580
- 00:33:357600 XD raster performance and in other
- 00:33:38features it's equivalent to the best of
- 00:33:40the three options how much rate tracing
- 00:33:42performance would it have to have for
- 00:33:44rate tracing to be a worthwhile
- 00:33:47feature so is the question asking at
- 00:33:49what performance TI is R tracing a
- 00:33:52usable feature or like a a worthwhile
- 00:33:55feature because for example with a rad
- 00:33:58RX 7600 or a gForce RTX 460 or a b580
- 00:34:02where like R Racing is completely
- 00:34:04irrelevant here because it's nowhere
- 00:34:06near fast enough I'm guessing so like
- 00:34:09it's kind of an interestingly phrased
- 00:34:10question but like the way like the
- 00:34:13amount of rate tracing performance those
- 00:34:15cards would need to have like b580 tier
- 00:34:17the rate Trace we need to significantly
- 00:34:19outstrip the rest of performance like
- 00:34:22those gpus are like on struggle Street
- 00:34:25for raster yeah is the best way I can
- 00:34:28put it so um I've got a few notes here
- 00:34:32from my updated or yeah my updated
- 00:34:34testing from my RTX 5080 review
- 00:34:38mhm but even like an RTX
- 00:34:414070 so I think you I think you would
- 00:34:44probably say that's your entry level for
- 00:34:46rate
- 00:34:47tracing but then if you pick the games
- 00:34:50that you the more modern games where you
- 00:34:52said R tracing under these certain
- 00:34:54settings which is the settings I tested
- 00:34:55is transformative
- 00:34:58at 1440p using quality dlss upscaling
- 00:35:02you're looking at an average of 40 FPS
- 00:35:05with an RTX 4070 and black myth Wukong
- 00:35:08mhm so 1440p upscaling black myth Wukong
- 00:35:1240 FPS with rage
- 00:35:14racing um 55 FPS in cyberpunk using your
- 00:35:19transformative quality settings at 440p
- 00:35:22again upscaling and 39 FPS and Allen
- 00:35:25weight 2 so for me personally that is
- 00:35:28unsatisfactory performance like we're
- 00:35:29not even talking about 60 FPS in most
- 00:35:32instances well short mhm like yeah you
- 00:35:34need to use like DSS performance which
- 00:35:38maybe is okay with DSS 4 but that's like
- 00:35:40we haven't tested that yet so not not
- 00:35:42sure TBD on that and I guess this is
- 00:35:44sort of my problem with rate racing in
- 00:35:46general is the performance you're
- 00:35:47getting so even if you look at an RTX
- 00:35:50480 which was $1200 let's call it $1,000
- 00:35:53now because essentially you're paying
- 00:35:55$11,000 for similar level of performance
- 00:35:58again 1440p quality upscaling black myth
- 00:36:02Wukong 61 FPS on average Allen weight 2
- 00:36:0566 FPS and then things start getting to
- 00:36:09a level of I would deem satisfactory and
- 00:36:11cyber Punk you're looking at like 85
- 00:36:14FPS yeah so I mean I think there's kind
- 00:36:17of two answers to this question for the
- 00:36:21transformative level of rate tracing
- 00:36:23where we're talking about games that
- 00:36:24have a specific rate tracing setting and
- 00:36:27games
- 00:36:28ignoring sort of Metro Exodus yeah
- 00:36:30modern games there's a r tracing setting
- 00:36:33that's separate to the raster settings
- 00:36:35where you'd want to turn on that setting
- 00:36:37to get significant perform like
- 00:36:39significant quality improvements there
- 00:36:41not worth turning on right then yeah
- 00:36:43you're probably looking at RTX 470 TI to
- 00:36:48480 performance minimum for that sort of
- 00:36:51experience anything even the 470 TI and
- 00:36:54certainly below that you're starting to
- 00:36:56talk about needing significant levels of
- 00:36:59upscaling so whether that's 1440p
- 00:37:01performance mode or relying on the
- 00:37:04crutch of frame generation for example
- 00:37:06which again is probably not going to
- 00:37:06work well in those examples but I know
- 00:37:09some people do use it in that way so
- 00:37:12that's the level you're talking about
- 00:37:13for that the other angle is the games
- 00:37:16where you're kind of forced to use R
- 00:37:18tracing so for example Like a Star Wars
- 00:37:20Outlaws and Indiana Jones think there's
- 00:37:23more games coming this year like Doom
- 00:37:24the new Doom game is going to force R
- 00:37:26tracing
- 00:37:28that's a little different because you'll
- 00:37:29probably be able to use like a medium to
- 00:37:31low quality setting on some sort of GPU
- 00:37:34so you wouldn't want the rate tracing
- 00:37:35performance to be like devastatingly low
- 00:37:37because then those games are just flat
- 00:37:39out not going to work whereas a game
- 00:37:41like uh Allen W 2 for example works just
- 00:37:44fine on like a 4060 if you turn off rate
- 00:37:46racing you would just use the medium
- 00:37:48quality settings so like is a b580 is
- 00:37:52rate tracing performance Bad For an
- 00:37:54upcoming rate tracing only game I mean
- 00:37:57it's probably not going to be great for
- 00:37:59like those games are not going to run
- 00:38:01super well but they're probably going to
- 00:38:03work at some level of performance like
- 00:38:05whether it's low settings with upscaling
- 00:38:07or medium with upscaling but
- 00:38:10yeah I would say at least that for up
- 00:38:12for R tracing to be like
- 00:38:14a really key aspect of that card it
- 00:38:18would certainly need to be minimum like
- 00:38:2040 70 levels of performance for those
- 00:38:22upcoming like like if I was going to
- 00:38:24predict a doom nextg doom games right
- 00:38:27racing performance or nextg cyber Punk
- 00:38:30game jeez and you're Pro with where
- 00:38:32you're forced use R tracing 4070 is a
- 00:38:34bold call for those games you're really
- 00:38:36talking 10ed p with upscaling at that
- 00:38:38point it's like yikes it I'm to like it
- 00:38:40depends on what what how much R race
- 00:38:43like I'm assuming rate tracing is forced
- 00:38:44it's just a question of how low can you
- 00:38:47go right that's the problem with all
- 00:38:48these
- 00:38:49compromised experiences becomes highly
- 00:38:52subjective obviously but in my opinion
- 00:38:55my experience testing it all for myself
- 00:38:59I would much rather have a 4070 and
- 00:39:02never touch R Racing I would rather aim
- 00:39:04for a like I would much prefer the
- 00:39:08quality the sharpness the improved
- 00:39:10detail at a higher resolution than I
- 00:39:12would lowering the resolution to try and
- 00:39:15enhance visuals that way with Road
- 00:39:17tracing I've always felt that way and I
- 00:39:19still feel that way today I mean there's
- 00:39:21certainly issues like Star Wars Outlaws
- 00:39:23the reflection quality is not not very
- 00:39:25good at sort of your medium to settings
- 00:39:28they can get very grainy and there's a
- 00:39:29lot of issues with that M so I
- 00:39:32mean I get what you're saying like you
- 00:39:35would prefer to do it your way I just
- 00:39:37think that in the next year you will be
- 00:39:39forced to do it the r tracing way there
- 00:39:42will not be an option not to which is
- 00:39:44why I'm saying the it has to be the
- 00:39:464080 cuz the for this has always been
- 00:39:49the problem with Raad tracing right
- 00:39:51people focus too much on but it's the
- 00:39:54future evidently we're seeing that but
- 00:39:57what happens is the the the gpus aren't
- 00:40:00organic they don't work out and get
- 00:40:02tougher and better at R tracing so the
- 00:40:06underwhelming r tracing performance that
- 00:40:08I just informed you of in games like
- 00:40:11black myth Wukong and and Allan Wake 2
- 00:40:14is only going to get worse for future
- 00:40:17titles that do a more impressive level
- 00:40:20of raid
- 00:40:22tracing and I already think that sub
- 00:40:2460fps gaming is unacceptable
- 00:40:27like rate tracing is not that good that
- 00:40:30I'm going to go below 60 FPS and I think
- 00:40:32the vast majority of people agree with
- 00:40:34me um but whether you do or you don't
- 00:40:37that's just my opinion anyway I would
- 00:40:38much rather play um Blackmouth Wukong
- 00:40:42for example at 90 FPS without rad
- 00:40:44tracing than at 40 FPS with rad tracing
- 00:40:48so uh well game developers are going to
- 00:40:51cut out that first option for you in the
- 00:40:53next Generation they'll solve that for
- 00:40:55me and then Nvidia will be like
- 00:40:57I mean there's some games where the
- 00:40:59performance on those cards isn't too bad
- 00:41:02like we're talking like Indiana Jones
- 00:41:04isn't a disastrous experience on a low
- 00:41:06tier card like it works I guess the
- 00:41:08question is
- 00:41:11like is that a true representation of R
- 00:41:14tracing if they're trying to do the bare
- 00:41:16minimum it's like I I get the games of R
- 00:41:19tracing only like they've made that
- 00:41:21decision is a is a low settings
- 00:41:24experience in Indiana Jones better than
- 00:41:26an Ultra settings experience using
- 00:41:28raster in another game I don't know well
- 00:41:30there's the visual side of things and
- 00:41:33then there's just the acceptable frame
- 00:41:35rate which is the thing we always talk
- 00:41:36about when we test CPUs right so it
- 00:41:39doesn't matter if the game looks
- 00:41:41phenomenal MH at 40 FPS yeah if you if
- 00:41:4560 FPS is the absolute minimum and and
- 00:41:49for me 40 FPS gaming
- 00:41:51is so bad yeah but like Indiana Jones on
- 00:41:54a re on like a 470 on low settings is
- 00:41:56going to run well above 40 FPS and it's
- 00:41:59a r tracing only game same with like
- 00:42:01Star Wars Outlaws right yeah so to
- 00:42:03answer the question because we're just
- 00:42:06we're just talking now Quake the
- 00:42:08upcoming Quake game 40 sorry upcoming I
- 00:42:12think quake's done well sorry I think
- 00:42:15quake's done that's actually more
- 00:42:16depressing to be fair I'm sorry the
- 00:42:18upcoming Doom
- 00:42:19game
- 00:42:22uh 4070 what are you getting for
- 00:42:25transformative f
- 00:42:28I mean it's R tracing only so that
- 00:42:31becomes tough because you can't I
- 00:42:32suppose do a non-r tracing option
- 00:42:36but like what preset equality settings
- 00:42:39on frame rate and that's a that that
- 00:42:41historically that has been a game where
- 00:42:43you want High frame rates to actually
- 00:42:44really enjoy it playing it's probably
- 00:42:47one of the probably needs the highest
- 00:42:48frame rate of any single playing Doom at
- 00:42:5160fps just no no no no no it so good
- 00:42:54luck yeah good luck with that yeah it's
- 00:42:57going to be really interesting to see
- 00:42:58how that goes because obviously the like
- 00:43:00developers can even make different
- 00:43:01choices right like they could force
- 00:43:03people into having to buy ex extravagant
- 00:43:06R tracing gpus to run their games or
- 00:43:10like really cut back on R tracing to the
- 00:43:12point where like if we're talking about
- 00:43:15running doom on low settings R tracing
- 00:43:18is forced on on a b580 is that like a
- 00:43:20true R tracing experience or is it kind
- 00:43:23of just R tracing imitating RoR it's
- 00:43:26kind of force but you're not really
- 00:43:27getting the the true benefits of R if
- 00:43:29you know what I mean right like R
- 00:43:32tracing you Nidia advertised R tracing
- 00:43:35they're talking about this idea of rate
- 00:43:36tracing I think we're getting there with
- 00:43:38path Trace games like Alan Wake
- 00:43:40blacksmith Wukong when you turn on those
- 00:43:41settings but if we're talking about like
- 00:43:44the lowest possible quality settings in
- 00:43:46a game where ra tracing is forced on is
- 00:43:48that really what we meant by ra
- 00:43:49tracing like yeah so yeah anyway let's
- 00:43:53move on to the next question because a
- 00:43:55lot of that's just speculative we'll see
- 00:43:57how that plays out for upcoming games
- 00:43:59sort of thing but yeah it could get
- 00:44:01pretty quickly where those low tier gpus
- 00:44:03are going to become unusable in modern
- 00:44:05games which would be uh disappointing
- 00:44:08all right we're going to hit pause for
- 00:44:09the second time on part two of this
- 00:44:11month's questions again there's been so
- 00:44:13many great questions this month that
- 00:44:15we're going to do probably do a part
- 00:44:16three in in a couple of days from now so
- 00:44:18we just thought you know what we've been
- 00:44:20loving talking about the GPU Market the
- 00:44:23state of the GPU Market at the moment
- 00:44:25things that can be done there that we're
- 00:44:27going to treat ourselves to some more
- 00:44:30very super positive questions in part
- 00:44:32three so stay tuned for that on the
- 00:44:34channel soon uh what else we got our
- 00:44:37patreon page so if you want to sign up
- 00:44:38and gain access to some cool benefits
- 00:44:40then that's available as well um you get
- 00:44:42an exclusive sort of Channel where you
- 00:44:44can ask your question it's kind of like
- 00:44:46a priority Lane except not like at the
- 00:44:48airport now where you know there there's
- 00:44:49like a priority Lane but most people
- 00:44:52just go there so it kind of clogs up the
- 00:44:53priority Lane we don't allow that this
- 00:44:55is a true priority for your Q&A
- 00:44:58questions um monthly live stream which
- 00:45:00we'll be doing shortly after recording
- 00:45:02this but there's always next month and
- 00:45:04then yeah the Discord is just a great
- 00:45:06place to chat about stuff it's always
- 00:45:07enjoyable in there and you know you
- 00:45:09publish your 59 year review live
- 00:45:11basically your live watching occurs in
- 00:45:13there which is always nice
- 00:45:15so yeah that pretty much does it so
- 00:45:17thanks for watching I'm your host Tim
- 00:45:19I'm your host Dave see you in the next
- 00:45:21one
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