His 250M+ App Download Blueprint (Full Strategy)

00:43:22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyosynoNbSU

概要

TLDRIn this episode, Hunter Isacson, a successful app developer with over 300 million downloads, shares his strategies for building consumer apps that generate significant revenue. He emphasizes the importance of creating a simple user experience, establishing a strong brand identity, and focusing on a core action that users can easily complete. Hunter discusses the role of social media in app growth, particularly through collaborations with creators and influencers. He also highlights emerging trends in technology, such as consumer AI and crypto, encouraging young entrepreneurs to innovate in these areas. The episode serves as a valuable resource for anyone looking to enter the consumer app market and achieve success.

収穫

  • 🚀 Hunter Isacson has achieved over 300 million downloads with his apps.
  • 📱 Focus on creating a simple user experience for your app.
  • 💡 Establish a strong brand identity that resonates with users.
  • 📈 Use social media and influencers to seed your app's growth.
  • 🎯 Identify a clear north star metric to guide your app's development.
  • 🌟 Young entrepreneurs should take risks in the consumer app space.
  • 🤝 Collaborate with creators to enhance app visibility.
  • 🔍 Explore emerging trends in consumer AI and crypto.
  • 📊 Effective onboarding is crucial for user retention.
  • 💬 Build a community around your app for sustained engagement.

タイムライン

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    In this episode, Hunter Isacson shares his insights on how to achieve $1 million monthly revenue in consumer apps, drawing from his experience with successful apps like NGL, which has over 250 million downloads. He emphasizes the potential for startups in the consumer mobile app space, especially with the rise of consumer AI, and encourages listeners to explore this opportunity.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Hunter Isacson discusses the importance of creating a simple onboarding experience for apps, using examples like Cal AAI, which successfully combined classic tools with AI. He highlights the significance of packaging and presenting apps in a way that enhances perceived value, making it easier for users to engage and share.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    The conversation shifts to lesser-known apps like Hallow, which focuses on Christian prayers. Hunter notes the need for mobile apps in various religious contexts, suggesting that there is a significant opportunity to create spiritual apps that appeal to younger audiences, emphasizing the importance of daily engagement and community features.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Hunter and the host discuss the potential for spiritual apps to incorporate single-player experiences with daily use cases, followed by multiplayer elements. They agree that a strong single-player experience is crucial before adding social features, which can enhance user engagement and retention.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    The discussion continues with the idea of creating AI-driven spiritual apps, exploring how AI could enhance user experiences by generating personalized content. Hunter suggests that there is room for innovation in this space, particularly with the integration of AI technologies.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    The conversation then turns to Locket, an app that utilizes iPhone widget functionality for social interaction. Hunter explains how Locket capitalized on this feature to create a unique social experience, and they discuss the potential for future innovations in the app ecosystem as new technologies emerge.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    Hunter shares his approach to app growth, emphasizing the importance of leveraging creators and social media platforms like TikTok for organic growth. He explains how he successfully seeded his apps with minimal marketing spend, focusing on creating viral content that encourages user sharing and engagement.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:43:22

    Finally, Hunter outlines his playbook for building a successful app business, which includes creating a simple user experience, identifying a core action for users, and continuously iterating based on user feedback. He stresses the importance of authenticity in branding and communication, encouraging aspiring app developers to take risks and explore consumer-focused opportunities.

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ビデオQ&A

  • Who is Hunter Isacson?

    Hunter Isacson is a successful entrepreneur known for creating consumer apps with over 300 million downloads, including NGL.

  • What is the main focus of this episode?

    The episode focuses on how to build a successful consumer app and the strategies for achieving significant downloads and revenue.

  • What is a key takeaway from Hunter's playbook?

    A key takeaway is to build a simple user experience and focus on a core action that users can easily complete.

  • How important is branding in app development?

    Branding is crucial; a strong brand helps users resonate with the app and enhances user retention.

  • What trends in technology should new entrepreneurs focus on?

    New entrepreneurs should focus on consumer mobile apps, especially in social and crypto spaces.

  • What is a north star metric?

    A north star metric is a key performance indicator that guides the development and success of an app.

  • How can social media be leveraged for app growth?

    Social media can be used to seed the app by collaborating with creators and influencers to reach a wider audience.

  • What is the significance of user onboarding?

    Effective onboarding helps users understand the app quickly, increasing the likelihood of them completing core actions.

  • What advice does Hunter give to young entrepreneurs?

    Hunter advises young entrepreneurs to take risks and build consumer apps, as they can reach a global audience.

  • What are some examples of successful apps mentioned?

    Examples include NGL, Hallow, and Pangu, which have successfully leveraged unique concepts and branding.

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  • 00:00:00
    In this episode, Hunter Isacson, the guy
  • 00:00:03
    who's gotten 300 million plus downloads
  • 00:00:08
    to his consumer apps, shares his
  • 00:00:10
    playbook for how to go 0 to $1 million
  • 00:00:14
    MR in a consumer app. How do you create
  • 00:00:17
    mobile apps? Like him, he's created an
  • 00:00:19
    app called NGL, which got $250 million
  • 00:00:22
    downloads. He created other apps that
  • 00:00:24
    got 60 million downloads, a dating app,
  • 00:00:26
    crypto app. So, he just breaks it down.
  • 00:00:29
    It's really, really simple. How he
  • 00:00:30
    breaks it down. Obviously, creating a
  • 00:00:33
    business isn't simple and I'll never
  • 00:00:35
    ever tell you that it isn't simple. I
  • 00:00:37
    learned a little bit from it and I think
  • 00:00:39
    you will too. I do believe that right
  • 00:00:41
    now there's a window with consumer AI
  • 00:00:44
    and consumer mobile apps that you can
  • 00:00:46
    actually go and build a startup and
  • 00:00:48
    start generating real revenue without
  • 00:00:51
    raising venture capital. So, I'm
  • 00:00:52
    particularly interested right now in the
  • 00:00:54
    consumer mobile app space. Hunter
  • 00:00:56
    Isacson is a great guy to learn from.
  • 00:00:59
    Enjoy this episode and let me know what
  • 00:01:01
    you think in the comments.
  • 00:01:11
    We got Hunter Isacson on the pod. You
  • 00:01:14
    might not recognize him, but I I'm
  • 00:01:16
    pretty sure you recognize some of his
  • 00:01:18
    apps. This is the goat who's
  • 00:01:21
    gotten
  • 00:01:23
    250 million downloads for NGL. Is that
  • 00:01:26
    right? That's right. Yes. And then
  • 00:01:29
    another 70 million downloads for the new
  • 00:01:32
    app you're working on. Uh previous apps
  • 00:01:35
    I built. Previous apps you've built.
  • 00:01:39
    And so this guy's got the sauce. And we
  • 00:01:42
    have a thing on on the Strup Ideas
  • 00:01:43
    podcast which is when when when someone
  • 00:01:47
    has a sauce, you have to you have to
  • 00:01:48
    deal the
  • 00:01:50
    sauce. So, what I'm hoping for is uh I'm
  • 00:01:54
    going to share my screen real quick. I
  • 00:01:56
    saw this tweet where it's a bunch of
  • 00:01:58
    these apps, mobile apps, 100K MR, 300K
  • 00:02:03
    MR, Cali Million AR, RZ 200 MR, Couple
  • 00:02:07
    Joy 300K MR. basically a bunch of apps
  • 00:02:09
    that are doing anywhere between 100,000
  • 00:02:12
    MR or actually 90,000 MR and and a
  • 00:02:15
    million MR and how they've been able to
  • 00:02:18
    grow organically through productled
  • 00:02:20
    growth and stuff like that. My goal
  • 00:02:21
    today, Hunter, if you oblige to deal
  • 00:02:25
    some sauce, is to help us understand how
  • 00:02:28
    people are doing this in consumer social
  • 00:02:30
    and crypto and AI and h, you know, by
  • 00:02:34
    the end of this episode, I want people
  • 00:02:36
    to basically have ideas for how they can
  • 00:02:38
    go and do this themselves. Do you think
  • 00:02:40
    we can do this? I think we can
  • 00:02:42
    definitely do this. Absolutely, brother.
  • 00:02:44
    We can.
  • 00:02:47
    Okay. Well, where do you want to start?
  • 00:02:50
    I mean, we can kind of start with just
  • 00:02:52
    the obvious picks on that list. Um, you
  • 00:02:55
    know, I Cal AAI is a great example of
  • 00:02:58
    how to use, you know, classic tools and
  • 00:03:01
    AI and that are publicly available to
  • 00:03:03
    everybody. But then if you package it
  • 00:03:05
    nicely, if you create a good onboarding
  • 00:03:08
    experience, you create like a user
  • 00:03:10
    investment in that onboarding
  • 00:03:11
    experience, um, if you kind of package
  • 00:03:14
    these simple tools the way that they
  • 00:03:17
    did, that's why they've seen the success
  • 00:03:18
    that they've had, right? You know, the
  • 00:03:20
    reality is anyone can go and make a
  • 00:03:22
    calorie tracking app, but they built an
  • 00:03:25
    amazing funnel, right? So, I think like
  • 00:03:26
    the key lesson in a Calai is they
  • 00:03:30
    packaged it really really nicely and
  • 00:03:32
    made it seem even more valuable than it
  • 00:03:35
    is, which I think is, you know, part of
  • 00:03:37
    the genius of of an app that simple.
  • 00:03:40
    So, so what you're saying is basically
  • 00:03:43
    uh it it's really simple. Like it's it's
  • 00:03:47
    I mean it's it's stupid simple. That's
  • 00:03:48
    how good That's how good it is. Yeah.
  • 00:03:51
    And they just figured out basically how
  • 00:03:54
    to how to onboard, you know, I think
  • 00:03:56
    it's been largely known creators onto,
  • 00:03:58
    you know, to to take con, you know, to
  • 00:04:02
    to create content around it and then you
  • 00:04:04
    marry creators with a stupid simple app
  • 00:04:07
    mixed with AI and good things happen.
  • 00:04:10
    Absolutely. Cool. Let's move on. Like
  • 00:04:14
    what about do you know anything about
  • 00:04:15
    some of these lesserk known apps like
  • 00:04:17
    Bible chat? Like I don't even heard of
  • 00:04:20
    that. So I've seen I've seen Hallow. I
  • 00:04:24
    know Coco Note. I don't I don't think
  • 00:04:26
    I've seen Bible chat. Um
  • 00:04:29
    obviously I know Pangu, you know, Couple
  • 00:04:31
    Joy, Riz Locket, obviously all those
  • 00:04:34
    guys. Let's look at Hallow for a second
  • 00:04:37
    because I didn't realize it, but it's
  • 00:04:40
    the number one app for Christian and
  • 00:04:42
    Catholic
  • 00:04:43
    prayers. Um, what do you know about this
  • 00:04:47
    app? I know that it has some pretty big
  • 00:04:49
    backers. I know it's very built out. Um,
  • 00:04:52
    I mean, it's definitely super popular. I
  • 00:04:55
    think that um as young people kind of
  • 00:04:58
    grow up and you know venture into
  • 00:05:01
    religion, there needs to be there need
  • 00:05:02
    to be mobile apps you know for religion
  • 00:05:04
    and for you know seeing these stories
  • 00:05:06
    and kind of experiencing them in a
  • 00:05:08
    different way. So, I think that they
  • 00:05:10
    took just like Yeah. They they took the
  • 00:05:12
    Bible, they made it mobile, they made it
  • 00:05:14
    digital, they made it more colorful,
  • 00:05:16
    adding push notifications, just kind of
  • 00:05:18
    like making it young uh and and making
  • 00:05:20
    it appeal to not just, you know, older
  • 00:05:23
    audiences, but also skewing towards, you
  • 00:05:25
    know, millennials, Gen Z.
  • 00:05:30
    And they charge $69.99 for a yearly
  • 00:05:33
    plan. They charge
  • 00:05:35
    $120 for a friends and family plan which
  • 00:05:38
    includes up to six members. That's
  • 00:05:40
    actually kind of cool. That is
  • 00:05:43
    Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's a when it
  • 00:05:46
    comes to like health, spirituality,
  • 00:05:48
    stuff like that, including a friends and
  • 00:05:50
    family plan makes sense. 100%. Yeah, I
  • 00:05:53
    fully agree with that.
  • 00:05:56
    Um do you think that there's
  • 00:05:59
    opportunities, you
  • 00:06:01
    know, in the like Okay. Hallow's
  • 00:06:04
    crushing it. I think pray.com is also
  • 00:06:06
    crushing it. There's a you know is there
  • 00:06:08
    is there more opportunity to create
  • 00:06:10
    spiritual apps for for example
  • 00:06:13
    Christians?
  • 00:06:15
    I think there's I mean across all
  • 00:06:17
    religions. Yeah. There's a huge opening
  • 00:06:19
    for this. You know I I mean I you know I
  • 00:06:21
    was raised Jewish. Um I'm not very um I
  • 00:06:25
    don't go to synagogue as often as I used
  • 00:06:27
    to. Um there's other religions that I've
  • 00:06:29
    been interested in, you know, different,
  • 00:06:31
    you know, more spiritual, you know, or
  • 00:06:33
    Buddha, you know, you know, Buddhism,
  • 00:06:35
    things of that nature. I don't see apps
  • 00:06:37
    for those types of religions, right? So,
  • 00:06:39
    I think there is an opportunity here to
  • 00:06:40
    kind of look at what are the
  • 00:06:42
    denominations and faith that people have
  • 00:06:44
    around the world and like how many of
  • 00:06:46
    those have been turned into an app and
  • 00:06:49
    are you passionate enough about the
  • 00:06:50
    subject matter to go and build build the
  • 00:06:52
    app for those people, right? I feel like
  • 00:06:54
    that's the that's the question on the
  • 00:06:55
    builder side. I'm laughing because it's
  • 00:06:58
    two Jews talking about if there's an
  • 00:07:00
    opportunity to build something for
  • 00:07:01
    Christians. It is kind of funny.
  • 00:07:04
    We're going to get so roasted in the
  • 00:07:06
    comment section. It's going to be
  • 00:07:07
    insane.
  • 00:07:09
    At least we can recognize it though.
  • 00:07:11
    We're calling ourselves.
  • 00:07:13
    Totally. Um, dude,
  • 00:07:16
    4.9 on
  • 00:07:18
    284,000 ratings. That's wild. Seeing
  • 00:07:21
    this.
  • 00:07:23
    Yeah.
  • 00:07:25
    Um, I'll I'll I I'll just say one thing
  • 00:07:27
    on this before we move on from spiritual
  • 00:07:30
    apps
  • 00:07:31
    is I think what they did really well
  • 00:07:34
    here is it looks like they have a really
  • 00:07:36
    good
  • 00:07:38
    um like daily use case. So like daily
  • 00:07:41
    prayers are in there. Um and it's just
  • 00:07:44
    like a really good single player
  • 00:07:45
    experience meaning like you could
  • 00:07:47
    there's it just seems like there's a ton
  • 00:07:49
    of content. like they got a bunch of
  • 00:07:50
    content and they structured it in a way
  • 00:07:53
    that you're going to open this up daily.
  • 00:07:55
    Um, which is which is kind of like what
  • 00:07:57
    you want, right? Because they have the
  • 00:07:58
    daily prayers, they have sleep
  • 00:08:00
    meditations, they've got minute
  • 00:08:03
    meditations. Um, and then they've got
  • 00:08:05
    like kind of a multiplayer experience
  • 00:08:07
    around community challenges. So, I think
  • 00:08:09
    that if you're creating a spiritual app,
  • 00:08:11
    think about it as like single player
  • 00:08:13
    first. How do I create the best daily
  • 00:08:15
    driver single player and then how do I
  • 00:08:17
    add multiplayer?
  • 00:08:19
    How how would you think about it? I
  • 00:08:21
    mean, I think that in an app like this,
  • 00:08:23
    like this is very much single player
  • 00:08:24
    first. I think you look at the
  • 00:08:26
    multiplayer side as like a way to
  • 00:08:27
    leverage like a different growth lever,
  • 00:08:29
    right? So, if you have, you know, you
  • 00:08:31
    have a really good single player app,
  • 00:08:32
    it's easy to then add like some kind of
  • 00:08:34
    multiplayer experience or some kind of
  • 00:08:36
    social experience where you're porting
  • 00:08:38
    in contacts or you're connecting socials
  • 00:08:40
    or they're sharing something to socials.
  • 00:08:42
    I feel like all that is like great
  • 00:08:44
    growth levers. Uh once you have a
  • 00:08:46
    amazing single player experience once
  • 00:08:49
    you have some kind of habit that you've
  • 00:08:50
    formed then you know you can add a
  • 00:08:52
    little gate right you can you know you
  • 00:08:54
    can gate monetization with some kind of
  • 00:08:56
    share mechanism. You can you know
  • 00:08:57
    encourage them to invite their friends
  • 00:08:58
    and family for a discount. A lot of
  • 00:09:01
    things that you can do in that realm but
  • 00:09:03
    you do need to crush that core
  • 00:09:05
    experience before you can do this. Okay
  • 00:09:08
    I have a question for you. So we talked
  • 00:09:10
    about Calai in the beginning. They took
  • 00:09:12
    something that pretty much existed
  • 00:09:14
    before calorie tracking and then they
  • 00:09:16
    made it AI first. Is
  • 00:09:19
    there is there like an AI first version
  • 00:09:22
    of Hallow that could be created?
  • 00:09:26
    I mean, yeah, there totally could be. Um
  • 00:09:29
    I I think that I think that you know
  • 00:09:31
    more with GPT vision I think will be
  • 00:09:34
    interesting, right? being able to to
  • 00:09:36
    look at things to take pictures of, you
  • 00:09:38
    know, beautiful scenery and then it
  • 00:09:40
    overlays and creates some kind of
  • 00:09:41
    beautiful, you know, religious or
  • 00:09:43
    spiritual video maybe with some kind of
  • 00:09:45
    Bible quote, you know, things of that
  • 00:09:46
    nature, right? Content creation here
  • 00:09:48
    could be interesting for AI. Um, you
  • 00:09:51
    know, generating
  • 00:09:53
    uh, you know, answers to, you know,
  • 00:09:55
    complex questions using, you know,
  • 00:09:57
    different religious texts. I feel like
  • 00:09:58
    there's a lot that you could do here. It
  • 00:10:00
    just we're still pretty early.
  • 00:10:03
    Yeah. Cool. So, someone could be
  • 00:10:05
    experimenting. Um, okay. Moving on
  • 00:10:08
    from two Jews in a Christian app. Um,
  • 00:10:14
    okay. Locket. Let's talk about locket.
  • 00:10:17
    So, okay. Well, I've used Locket
  • 00:10:20
    actually with my wife. Yeah. Like as a
  • 00:10:22
    consumer. Um, tell people what it is,
  • 00:10:25
    why it's interesting, and and how
  • 00:10:27
    they've been able to grow. Well, I mean,
  • 00:10:29
    I've been using Locket for a long time.
  • 00:10:30
    the founder is a very very smart guy and
  • 00:10:33
    um the the general premise is they were
  • 00:10:35
    the first ones to really take the widget
  • 00:10:37
    functionality on the iPhone and make it
  • 00:10:40
    social um by just taking a picture and
  • 00:10:43
    it goes to your other goes to your
  • 00:10:44
    friend's uh home screen. Um, it's a very
  • 00:10:47
    simple concept and I feel like it really
  • 00:10:49
    popped off with, you know, kind of like
  • 00:10:52
    people on Tik Tok who are in
  • 00:10:53
    relationships like the relationship talk
  • 00:10:55
    side of Tik Tok or the, you know, best
  • 00:10:57
    friend side of Tik Tok. This, you know,
  • 00:10:59
    skewing super young, right? Like kind of
  • 00:11:01
    how do you build a social app that's,
  • 00:11:03
    you know, Snapchatesque, but it lives in
  • 00:11:06
    a different place. I feel like Lockit
  • 00:11:08
    was like amazing at figuring out how to
  • 00:11:10
    do that. Um, I mean, I I've used the
  • 00:11:13
    app. Uh, it's a great app. Absolutely.
  • 00:11:16
    Um, so it it does feel like uh it's one
  • 00:11:20
    of those apps that saw that like widgets
  • 00:11:24
    started to become more like was a thing,
  • 00:11:27
    right? They saw an o an opportunity to
  • 00:11:29
    me. was like the first widget that I was
  • 00:11:31
    using as a as a daily basis like um
  • 00:11:36
    is okay we're sitting now in 2025 like
  • 00:11:39
    what is the equivalent of I think this
  • 00:11:41
    you know they built this I probably in
  • 00:11:43
    2022
  • 00:11:46
    um somewhere around there around there
  • 00:11:48
    what is the equivalent of okay the
  • 00:11:52
    widget store just opened in 2025 like
  • 00:11:55
    you know from an Apple
  • 00:11:57
    perspective you know does this exist
  • 00:11:59
    like where where where is the wild west
  • 00:12:01
    in terms of uh you know new
  • 00:12:04
    opportunities within the app Apple
  • 00:12:06
    ecosystem
  • 00:12:07
    you know I think that like yeah I mean
  • 00:12:09
    every year we have a new version of iOS
  • 00:12:10
    and there's sometimes they give us
  • 00:12:12
    something new uh like new real estate to
  • 00:12:13
    play with I really think live activities
  • 00:12:15
    is a cool thing that very few people are
  • 00:12:17
    playing with compared to what they
  • 00:12:19
    should be which is when like on your
  • 00:12:21
    lock screen it like shows some kind of
  • 00:12:23
    cool graphic like your Uber is on the
  • 00:12:25
    way right and it's like it shows you
  • 00:12:27
    know the distance things of that nature
  • 00:12:29
    I feel like live activities is like
  • 00:12:31
    that's a super interesting piece that no
  • 00:12:33
    one has really like really dominated
  • 00:12:35
    like way locket dominated the widget
  • 00:12:38
    functionality. Um I also think like lock
  • 00:12:40
    screen widgets have not been fully
  • 00:12:44
    played out like you know I use them a
  • 00:12:46
    lot um you know to kind of customize my
  • 00:12:48
    lock screen. I wish there were more. I'm
  • 00:12:50
    sure there's like some social
  • 00:12:52
    experiences that we could you know use
  • 00:12:53
    there but um yeah I mean every year
  • 00:12:56
    there's something new that Apple gives
  • 00:12:57
    us. Yeah, exactly. things like this.
  • 00:13:00
    Yeah, it's true.
  • 00:13:01
    Like the lock screen widget you stare at
  • 00:13:05
    it every day, you know, and all the
  • 00:13:08
    time. Yeah. Yeah.
  • 00:13:11
    Um, so the thing with with the thing
  • 00:13:15
    with this sort of stuff when when Apple
  • 00:13:17
    opens up something new
  • 00:13:20
    is like
  • 00:13:22
    locket looks obvious now, but
  • 00:13:26
    realistically like they were one of the
  • 00:13:27
    first, if not the first mainstream use
  • 00:13:30
    cases of a widget. Yeah. Um, so I I I
  • 00:13:35
    can, you know, my prediction over the
  • 00:13:37
    next six to 12 months, live activities
  • 00:13:39
    and iPhone lock screen widgets, like
  • 00:13:41
    we're going to see one or two really big
  • 00:13:44
    uh bangers basically. Yeah, I could see
  • 00:13:47
    it happening for sure.
  • 00:13:50
    By the way, you know, you've grown
  • 00:13:53
    you've grown your um your apps to
  • 00:13:56
    millions of users.
  • 00:13:58
    Guom, this guy on X who who who who's
  • 00:14:00
    who's who's really good at sort of
  • 00:14:01
    sharing a lot of these
  • 00:14:03
    examples, he he's like exclusively talks
  • 00:14:06
    about like creators um driving the
  • 00:14:10
    growth of them, the organic content.
  • 00:14:12
    Like is this something that everyone
  • 00:14:15
    needs to pay attention to? How have you
  • 00:14:17
    grown your apps? Um can you talk more
  • 00:14:19
    about that? Yeah, for sure. I mean, the
  • 00:14:21
    way that I've really grown my apps is
  • 00:14:24
    using creators and using Tik Tok and
  • 00:14:26
    that kind of content just to seed the
  • 00:14:28
    app. Um, to get enough people to
  • 00:14:30
    download it within a tight amount of
  • 00:14:32
    time in order for them to then kind of
  • 00:14:34
    activate a growth loop where everybody
  • 00:14:36
    shares something. Um, this is what I did
  • 00:14:38
    on MGL. You know, we we spent less than
  • 00:14:41
    $10,000 marketing the entire product um
  • 00:14:44
    to get the quarter of a billion
  • 00:14:45
    downloads that we got. Um, and really
  • 00:14:48
    the purpose of the marketing was just to
  • 00:14:51
    seed it, right? Just to get enough
  • 00:14:53
    people to download it quickly. Um,
  • 00:14:55
    because it's one of those apps that just
  • 00:14:57
    once enough people do it, it just goes
  • 00:15:00
    giga viral, which is what happened for
  • 00:15:02
    us. It just just took some time to seed
  • 00:15:04
    it properly. Uh, and we use Tik Tok and
  • 00:15:07
    Instagram to do it. And what do you say
  • 00:15:09
    to people who say, "I've seen this app
  • 00:15:12
    before. This isn't a new idea."
  • 00:15:15
    Yeah, it's I mean it's not a new idea,
  • 00:15:17
    right? You know, um anonymous messaging
  • 00:15:19
    apps have been on the internet for a
  • 00:15:20
    long time. You know, there was Ask FM,
  • 00:15:22
    there was um Yikyak, there was bunch of
  • 00:15:25
    different ones, you know, in between. Um
  • 00:15:27
    really what made NGL special for us is
  • 00:15:29
    we launched it right when Instagram, you
  • 00:15:32
    know, unveiled the link feature for
  • 00:15:34
    everybody. Used to have to have 10,000
  • 00:15:36
    followers to post links. In October of
  • 00:15:39
    2021, they just randomly switched it.
  • 00:15:41
    Within a few days, me and some friends
  • 00:15:43
    were already building NGL. We shipped it
  • 00:15:45
    in a few weeks and then it took about
  • 00:15:48
    six months after that point for people
  • 00:15:50
    to start using it just because it took
  • 00:15:52
    time to seed it. So for for like people
  • 00:15:55
    listening, you don't really need to
  • 00:15:57
    reinvent the wheel. Sounds like. No,
  • 00:16:00
    it's a new channel, right? You know,
  • 00:16:01
    it's like anonymous messaging has worked
  • 00:16:03
    on the internet, it's worked on apps,
  • 00:16:05
    it's worked on different platforms, why
  • 00:16:07
    wouldn't it work with Instagram as the
  • 00:16:09
    growth lever? So that was kind of our
  • 00:16:12
    thought process behind building the app.
  • 00:16:14
    Um and also because like nobody had ever
  • 00:16:16
    posted, you know, links on Instagram.
  • 00:16:19
    The average person had never done it. So
  • 00:16:20
    we really had to train, you know, a
  • 00:16:22
    couple hundred million people on how to,
  • 00:16:24
    you know, tap the link sticker, paste
  • 00:16:26
    the link, position the link. Sounds
  • 00:16:28
    really easy, but it's super super hard
  • 00:16:30
    at scale to getting everybody to fully
  • 00:16:32
    comprehend like a new feature that they
  • 00:16:34
    hadn't used prior.
  • 00:16:37
    Totally. Yeah. I think uh it just gets
  • 00:16:39
    you it gets you thinking that you can
  • 00:16:41
    kind of like go back to old ideas that
  • 00:16:44
    have gotten popular in the past, but now
  • 00:16:47
    with like the new economics of like it's
  • 00:16:49
    cheaper than ever to build distribution.
  • 00:16:52
    You can build stuff on social, you can
  • 00:16:53
    work with creators, there's new channels
  • 00:16:56
    like something that might have worked
  • 00:16:57
    for mobile might also work in a in a
  • 00:17:00
    widget form. Widget first. Totally.
  • 00:17:03
    Absolutely. Yeah. Looking for like you
  • 00:17:04
    know existing ideas that could work in a
  • 00:17:06
    new channel. I feel like that's a great
  • 00:17:08
    way to just find good ideas because you
  • 00:17:11
    don't have to come up with fully
  • 00:17:12
    original, fully fleshed out thoughts.
  • 00:17:14
    It's more of just like finding a little
  • 00:17:16
    opportunity of, hey, something's not
  • 00:17:18
    optimized on this platform. It's not
  • 00:17:20
    built for this channel. Let me just go
  • 00:17:22
    and do that. And worked. It worked for
  • 00:17:24
    us very well.
  • 00:17:26
    So, I I got to ask you, you
  • 00:17:30
    know, if you're trying to
  • 00:17:34
    uh, you know, create an app, let's say I
  • 00:17:37
    What's Hunter? Basically, what's
  • 00:17:39
    Hunter's
  • 00:17:41
    playbook to build a $1
  • 00:17:46
    million a month
  • 00:17:49
    uh app business?
  • 00:17:53
    you know, h how do you think about that?
  • 00:17:55
    I just want to like brainstorm with you
  • 00:17:57
    live. Yeah. Around like thinking about
  • 00:18:01
    what makes cuz you know, you you could
  • 00:18:03
    be working on a million different ideas,
  • 00:18:05
    right? How do you think about um what to
  • 00:18:08
    work on and then how to structure your
  • 00:18:11
    apps so that you know that it's going to
  • 00:18:14
    do at least a million dollars a month? I
  • 00:18:16
    mean, the main thing that I focus on is
  • 00:18:18
    building like a really simple
  • 00:18:19
    experience. So, you know, I start with
  • 00:18:21
    like figuring out what the features are
  • 00:18:23
    going to be for like a V1. Like what's
  • 00:18:25
    like my bare bones MVP version of this
  • 00:18:30
    concept that is is good enough to solve
  • 00:18:34
    the problem I'm trying to solve, but
  • 00:18:36
    it's probably not optimized. It's
  • 00:18:38
    probably rough on the edges, but it's
  • 00:18:40
    enough to kind of solve that issue. Um,
  • 00:18:43
    I then like to get users on pretty
  • 00:18:45
    quickly, right? So just it could be a
  • 00:18:49
    couple hundred could be a couple
  • 00:18:50
    thousand. So, you know, once you have
  • 00:18:52
    kind of built this core concept and you
  • 00:18:54
    have like some kind of MVP for it, um
  • 00:18:56
    just testing content, right? You know,
  • 00:18:59
    and and this could be even when the app
  • 00:19:00
    is in pre-order stage, right? It doesn't
  • 00:19:02
    even have to be live for you to do this.
  • 00:19:04
    Um you can test content on Tik Tok or on
  • 00:19:06
    Instagram reels and, you know, see are
  • 00:19:09
    people responding to these formats that
  • 00:19:10
    you know, your app is, you know, kind of
  • 00:19:12
    the the premise of the app is around
  • 00:19:14
    these formats or the formats working or
  • 00:19:16
    not. Um, once you drop some people into
  • 00:19:18
    the app, then really what you're looking
  • 00:19:20
    for is you need to get a high percentage
  • 00:19:22
    of people to complete a core action. So,
  • 00:19:24
    you select a core action and then you
  • 00:19:27
    kind of orient your decisions around a
  • 00:19:30
    core action or like a northstar metric.
  • 00:19:32
    This is like something that I'm really
  • 00:19:34
    bullish on like always having that one
  • 00:19:37
    metric that matters more than the other
  • 00:19:39
    ones. It makes it really easy when
  • 00:19:41
    you're doing like conversations of
  • 00:19:42
    tradeoffs, right? because it's like do
  • 00:19:44
    we sacrifice this, we sacrifice that. If
  • 00:19:46
    you have a northstar metric, it's kind
  • 00:19:48
    of obvious what the decision would be.
  • 00:19:50
    Um because you want to just increase
  • 00:19:52
    that. For example, um yeah, I I give you
  • 00:19:55
    a couple examples. So for for Wink,
  • 00:19:56
    which was an app that I built was a one
  • 00:19:58
    of the largest make new friends apps in
  • 00:20:00
    the world. You know, Northstar metric we
  • 00:20:01
    had was like um what percentage of users
  • 00:20:04
    get a match in their first day, right?
  • 00:20:06
    How how do we make sure that you know it
  • 00:20:08
    was a it was a swiping make new
  • 00:20:09
    friendsdating app. How do we make sure
  • 00:20:11
    that everybody gets a match? you know,
  • 00:20:13
    what does that mean? How do we use the
  • 00:20:14
    out matching algorithm in order to sort
  • 00:20:16
    people who swipe a lot, you know, to the
  • 00:20:19
    right with new users, for example,
  • 00:20:21
    right? How do we just maximize um that
  • 00:20:23
    percentage with NGL? Um, our Northstar
  • 00:20:27
    metric was the percentage of users that
  • 00:20:29
    are sharing the link and sharing a few
  • 00:20:31
    replies. We figured that, you know,
  • 00:20:33
    sharing the link was already pretty hard
  • 00:20:35
    because it was a four-step process. You
  • 00:20:37
    had to, you know, go through a tutorial.
  • 00:20:39
    If we could get as many users as
  • 00:20:41
    possible to share the link and then
  • 00:20:43
    share a couple replies that then made it
  • 00:20:45
    where people became more comfortable to
  • 00:20:48
    actually um to actually like send
  • 00:20:50
    messages, right? Because you see your
  • 00:20:51
    friend posted a link, then you see that
  • 00:20:53
    your friend got replies. So now you as
  • 00:20:56
    the viewer are more willing to send a
  • 00:20:58
    message because you know that it's cool.
  • 00:20:59
    So we kind of figured that this was like
  • 00:21:01
    the core metric. Um, and then with with
  • 00:21:03
    bags, right, with my with my latest app,
  • 00:21:05
    the core metric is how many people are
  • 00:21:07
    coming in that are funding their
  • 00:21:09
    accounts and making one trade uh in the
  • 00:21:12
    first day, right? How do we maximize
  • 00:21:14
    that number? And so, if anything that
  • 00:21:16
    you're doing is going against the
  • 00:21:18
    northstar metric, then it's just not the
  • 00:21:20
    right decision. I feel like it's super
  • 00:21:22
    important that you have to pick one of
  • 00:21:23
    those and kind of like go all in on, you
  • 00:21:26
    know, orienting the business around it.
  • 00:21:28
    I think you're missing one key piece of
  • 00:21:31
    this framework that I've noticed you do,
  • 00:21:33
    which is um you call it build a simple
  • 00:21:35
    experience, but it's build a brand
  • 00:21:38
    people love. So, I've noticed that all
  • 00:21:40
    the apps that you create, Wink, NGL,
  • 00:21:45
    Bags, they all have like pretty simple
  • 00:21:49
    uh names with brands that people can
  • 00:21:51
    resonate with. Um bags is it's bags.fm,
  • 00:21:55
    right? Um,
  • 00:21:57
    so like when I just look at bags, like
  • 00:22:00
    first of all, surprisingly, no one had
  • 00:22:03
    built a crypto app called bags.
  • 00:22:06
    Shocking, right? Shocking. Yeah. Like
  • 00:22:10
    couldn't be more shocking, right? And
  • 00:22:12
    and it's it's so smart to take the
  • 00:22:17
    um like the slang of a community and
  • 00:22:21
    make it and basically coin it as the
  • 00:22:23
    name of your app. Yeah, 100%. That that
  • 00:22:26
    that was the thought process behind it.
  • 00:22:28
    And uh we did something similar with
  • 00:22:30
    NGL. You know, NGL is not going to lie.
  • 00:22:32
    So, it was like really easy for young
  • 00:22:34
    people to understand like what the NGL
  • 00:22:36
    link is, you know, and then being, oh,
  • 00:22:37
    it's an anonymous app, you know, makes a
  • 00:22:39
    lot of sense. But that's actually a good
  • 00:22:40
    idea like yeah, build a brand people
  • 00:22:42
    resonate with. And I think a brand that
  • 00:22:44
    people understand like people are able
  • 00:22:46
    to look at your app and have like some
  • 00:22:48
    idea of like what it is or kind of get
  • 00:22:51
    some get something from it, right? And I
  • 00:22:54
    think with with my apps, I try to be
  • 00:22:55
    pretty like on the nose with like what
  • 00:22:58
    it is. Just be very obvious with it. Um,
  • 00:23:01
    and that's something I just learned over
  • 00:23:02
    time. Just I've done it so many times.
  • 00:23:04
    I've seen good names and bad names. I've
  • 00:23:07
    seen if I go too complicated, people get
  • 00:23:09
    confused. So now I stick to short names.
  • 00:23:12
    Is that something that is just intuition
  • 00:23:15
    or like how do people how do people
  • 00:23:19
    actually come up with a brand that
  • 00:23:20
    people can understand and resonate with?
  • 00:23:22
    Is it as simple as keep it short, find a
  • 00:23:25
    slang term?
  • 00:23:27
    Um, keep it short and finding a slang
  • 00:23:29
    term, I think, are two great ways to do
  • 00:23:31
    it. I don't know if there's like a like
  • 00:23:32
    a, you know, a full a fully fleshed out
  • 00:23:35
    framework. A lot of it is like how you
  • 00:23:38
    feel the vibes of the brand are. And I
  • 00:23:40
    think that I think the by using slang,
  • 00:23:43
    by using like, you know, words from a
  • 00:23:44
    specific community, it can kind of set
  • 00:23:47
    the vibe and the tone to be more like
  • 00:23:49
    young and like comfortable and like
  • 00:23:51
    colloquial and like we're just friends
  • 00:23:53
    talking and hanging. And that's why the
  • 00:23:55
    app is called what it is. And sometimes
  • 00:23:57
    I, you know, I in the past I would like
  • 00:23:59
    move some of that that language into the
  • 00:24:01
    app like into like, you know, different
  • 00:24:03
    popups and different, you know, into the
  • 00:24:05
    copy to kind of also skew young, stay
  • 00:24:08
    relevant, make them feel comfortable,
  • 00:24:10
    right? Like make them feel like they're
  • 00:24:12
    almost, you know, it's like the app is
  • 00:24:13
    like uh that understands them because it
  • 00:24:15
    understands their language.
  • 00:24:18
    Yeah. We have um we have a sta a saying
  • 00:24:20
    for uh we actually made it our slogan
  • 00:24:24
    for our design agency stay a while. Um
  • 00:24:27
    it's like how do you how do you
  • 00:24:30
    uh how do you make people feel like when
  • 00:24:33
    they're in an app experience that they
  • 00:24:35
    want to stay a while like they don't
  • 00:24:36
    want to leave. That's yeah that's
  • 00:24:38
    actually very true. We we you definitely
  • 00:24:40
    want them to stay a while. So making
  • 00:24:42
    them feel comfortable is a big part of
  • 00:24:44
    that. And then from a design
  • 00:24:46
    perspective, so you know, do you hire
  • 00:24:49
    like one designer? Like how how do you
  • 00:24:51
    do you you know, how do how do you do
  • 00:24:53
    deal with that? So I I I design
  • 00:24:57
    everything um for all my apps. I've like
  • 00:24:59
    I I've solo designed every single app
  • 00:25:02
    I've built. So like a dozen apps at this
  • 00:25:04
    point, including the branding, including
  • 00:25:07
    everything.
  • 00:25:09
    And what do you use? Like Figma or?
  • 00:25:11
    Yeah, I use Figma. Cool. I started out
  • 00:25:14
    my first app. I my first app I was
  • 00:25:16
    designing it on PowerPoint and then I
  • 00:25:18
    learned Photoshop and then I learned uh
  • 00:25:21
    Sketch and then Figma. So I've kind of
  • 00:25:24
    used a lot of different tools. Awesome.
  • 00:25:27
    Okay. So build a step one build a brand.
  • 00:25:29
    Step two build simple experience. What
  • 00:25:31
    does this look like bare bones? Step
  • 00:25:32
    three get users on at least 100. So
  • 00:25:35
    testing the content figuring out what
  • 00:25:37
    the format is. Picking a platform. You
  • 00:25:40
    select the core action as number four.
  • 00:25:42
    high percentage of people doing it. You
  • 00:25:44
    know, I'm guessing this Matt, you know,
  • 00:25:47
    this this is different depending on what
  • 00:25:50
    your core action is, but can you give a
  • 00:25:52
    range of what a high
  • 00:25:55
    percentage is?
  • 00:25:58
    Um, yeah. So, when I say like a high
  • 00:26:00
    percentage of people sharing the link
  • 00:26:02
    and multiple replies, I mean over 90%.
  • 00:26:05
    Oh, wow. Yeah, that's majority. You need
  • 00:26:07
    to aim where everyone's doing the same
  • 00:26:10
    thing. Um and then also it's like you
  • 00:26:14
    want to have one flow right because if
  • 00:26:16
    you have branching user journeys then it
  • 00:26:18
    gets also complicated right you want
  • 00:26:20
    like everyone to go through the exact
  • 00:26:22
    same flow and then you can see you know
  • 00:26:25
    it was I successful in getting them to
  • 00:26:27
    do this or was I not because it's very
  • 00:26:30
    apparent because everyone has to do the
  • 00:26:32
    same thing.
  • 00:26:34
    So once you've done that, say you've got
  • 00:26:36
    close to 90% or 90% or more, what do you
  • 00:26:40
    what what's next?
  • 00:26:42
    Um at that point, then you want to
  • 00:26:44
    continue seating it, right? Because now
  • 00:26:45
    you've you've um you've proven that you
  • 00:26:47
    can get enough people to complete the
  • 00:26:49
    action in the app. So now you need to
  • 00:26:52
    seed it with like a really like you got
  • 00:26:53
    to you kind of did the test content, you
  • 00:26:55
    got users on, you iterated. Now you need
  • 00:26:58
    to kind of take all those learnings and
  • 00:26:59
    then apply more pressure and then just
  • 00:27:01
    start trying to seed it in different
  • 00:27:03
    audiences, different niches, um you know
  • 00:27:05
    work with creators in different
  • 00:27:07
    countries, um in different time zones
  • 00:27:09
    that have different kinds of audiences
  • 00:27:12
    um you know just really like push like
  • 00:27:14
    once you know that you can get people to
  • 00:27:17
    do the core action, your job is now just
  • 00:27:19
    to get more people onto the app. Uh, and
  • 00:27:22
    what I like to do is like part of the
  • 00:27:23
    core action, I do like to have some some
  • 00:27:25
    kind of sharing or inviting in that in
  • 00:27:28
    that core action, right? You know, um,
  • 00:27:30
    you know, we've seen apps like, you
  • 00:27:31
    know, uh, that have hard invite gates.
  • 00:27:34
    We saw that with, uh, with laps, for
  • 00:27:35
    example, very viral photo app. You would
  • 00:27:38
    invite, I think, three to five friends
  • 00:27:39
    to get in the app. Um, so a lot of
  • 00:27:42
    people would, you know, hit that wall
  • 00:27:43
    and maybe not go over, but if you got
  • 00:27:46
    over the wall, you were an extremely
  • 00:27:47
    valuable user because you brought in all
  • 00:27:49
    these people with you. So, it's like if
  • 00:27:51
    you have some kind of loop in the app or
  • 00:27:54
    some kind of way of inviting people,
  • 00:27:55
    whatever it is, I would put that in the
  • 00:27:57
    core experience because then if you just
  • 00:28:00
    drop in a thousand people and 50% of
  • 00:28:03
    them share, that's 500 people that have
  • 00:28:06
    now shared your app or they've invited
  • 00:28:08
    their friend. So, it's like your K
  • 00:28:10
    factor is going to increase um because
  • 00:28:12
    you have that in there and you're not
  • 00:28:14
    fully rellyant on the Tik Tok or the
  • 00:28:17
    Instagram reel or the ad that they came
  • 00:28:19
    from because you kind of have this extra
  • 00:28:21
    little growth lever that um some people
  • 00:28:24
    or most people are going through. In the
  • 00:28:27
    case of NGL, it was almost everybody.
  • 00:28:30
    Yeah. So, I've noticed you've done that
  • 00:28:32
    with pretty much all of your apps. So,
  • 00:28:34
    with NGL, it was you were posting the
  • 00:28:37
    link, the NGL link on your Snap or
  • 00:28:40
    Instagram. Um, with
  • 00:28:43
    bags, I first learned about bags. I
  • 00:28:45
    didn't even know it was you, to be
  • 00:28:46
    honest. I first learned about bags
  • 00:28:48
    because I saw people sharing their their
  • 00:28:50
    bags link on Twitter. Can you talk about
  • 00:28:53
    the the social aspect of of uh of the of
  • 00:28:57
    bags? Yeah. So, you know, when we
  • 00:28:59
    started bags, we didn't really know what
  • 00:29:01
    it was going to be. We kind of had this
  • 00:29:03
    idea for like what we wanted to build.
  • 00:29:05
    We knew that we wanted to build like a
  • 00:29:06
    really good consumer crypto app that
  • 00:29:08
    could get anybody into crypto but also
  • 00:29:10
    have them understand what's going on and
  • 00:29:12
    at the same time still have people who
  • 00:29:14
    are crypto natives be able to enjoy the
  • 00:29:16
    app, right? So, it's a pretty hard
  • 00:29:18
    problem. So, we started with just like
  • 00:29:19
    how do we create like a really cool
  • 00:29:21
    brand? How do we create like a great
  • 00:29:22
    community of people? Um, we had the idea
  • 00:29:25
    to kind of start building growth loops.
  • 00:29:27
    This was really early days of the
  • 00:29:28
    company. We didn't have any followers on
  • 00:29:30
    social media. and we hadn't made any
  • 00:29:32
    money. We hadn't really built, you know,
  • 00:29:34
    anything substantial at the time. So, we
  • 00:29:36
    started with just a couple of loops. Um,
  • 00:29:37
    one of the loops we had was, you know,
  • 00:29:39
    you would log in with Twitter, you'd
  • 00:29:40
    claim your bags link, and then you share
  • 00:29:42
    it. And then if people join from your
  • 00:29:44
    link, we would mark those people as like
  • 00:29:46
    one of your invites, and then we had
  • 00:29:48
    like a leaderboard of all the people
  • 00:29:50
    that were inviting. And we had like lots
  • 00:29:52
    of the top people on Salana, you know,
  • 00:29:53
    like, you know, Raj and Tuli from Salana
  • 00:29:56
    were on there. Um, a lot of other people
  • 00:29:58
    that are big in crypto were on there.
  • 00:30:00
    Um, and then we basically just kind of
  • 00:30:02
    kept building growth loops. Um, and that
  • 00:30:05
    kept growing the followers and it kept
  • 00:30:07
    just growing the hype and the buzz about
  • 00:30:08
    the app and it allowed us to kind of get
  • 00:30:10
    to that, you know, that 100,000 follower
  • 00:30:12
    mark on Twitter. And um, and then we
  • 00:30:14
    really just focused all the efforts on
  • 00:30:16
    backing that up, backing that growth
  • 00:30:18
    loop up and and that hype up with
  • 00:30:20
    building a really good product.
  • 00:30:23
    And when you're talking, okay, once
  • 00:30:25
    you've got a thing that's working and
  • 00:30:27
    you're continually seating it, are you
  • 00:30:30
    paying to seed it? Like where you know,
  • 00:30:34
    is this organic or is this paid?
  • 00:30:36
    Basically, some sometimes it's organic,
  • 00:30:38
    sometimes it's paid. I think that um you
  • 00:30:40
    know, in the case of NGL, we were
  • 00:30:42
    paying, you know, $50, $100 here or
  • 00:30:45
    there to influencers to just post the
  • 00:30:47
    link on their story. Um, you know, in
  • 00:30:50
    the case of an app like a different kind
  • 00:30:51
    of app, right? Like with Wink, a lot of
  • 00:30:53
    we were doing, um, we were paying Tik
  • 00:30:56
    Tockers, we were paying people to make
  • 00:30:58
    videos. Um, but like I think that you
  • 00:31:01
    don't want to you don't want to pay a
  • 00:31:03
    lot, right? Like you want to you kind of
  • 00:31:04
    want to just test and build things that
  • 00:31:07
    can scale that like work on a small
  • 00:31:09
    scale and that way all you really need
  • 00:31:11
    is like that one viral video to kind of
  • 00:31:13
    get the get the traction going. Um, but
  • 00:31:16
    it it can be paid, it can be free. It
  • 00:31:18
    just depends on honestly your
  • 00:31:19
    relationship with an influencer, your
  • 00:31:21
    relationship with creative agency,
  • 00:31:23
    whatever it may be. Um, there's not
  • 00:31:25
    really like a a go-to uh answer there.
  • 00:31:29
    And what else are we missing from this
  • 00:31:30
    list if anything?
  • 00:31:34
    Um I mean just not I wouldn't call like
  • 00:31:38
    additional pointers more of just like
  • 00:31:39
    general like you know good practices uh
  • 00:31:41
    is like authenticity in the way that you
  • 00:31:44
    present the app like just present it how
  • 00:31:46
    it is right and like be very real with
  • 00:31:48
    how you you know communicate publicly
  • 00:31:51
    like with in the case of NGL and Bags
  • 00:31:53
    like you know NGL has 2 million
  • 00:31:55
    followers on Instagram you know bags has
  • 00:31:57
    over 100,000 on Twitter um you know very
  • 00:32:00
    active posting on the bags account every
  • 00:32:02
    day, you know, we have an intern that's
  • 00:32:04
    constantly, you know, making sure that
  • 00:32:06
    people are, you know, seeing bags,
  • 00:32:08
    having seeing hearing an authentic
  • 00:32:09
    voice, you know, being memeable, being
  • 00:32:11
    funny, being relatable, you know, not
  • 00:32:13
    being just like a brand that just kind
  • 00:32:15
    of like sits there. Uh, in the case of
  • 00:32:17
    NGL, you know, we don't push it as much
  • 00:32:19
    now on Instagram as we used to, but um,
  • 00:32:21
    you know, the Instagram has like meme
  • 00:32:23
    formats and like, you know, the
  • 00:32:24
    funniest, you know, messages from people
  • 00:32:27
    and like, you know, just a bunch of
  • 00:32:29
    like, you know, fun young skewing things
  • 00:32:31
    that make it feel more comfortable to
  • 00:32:33
    young people. So, like an authentic
  • 00:32:35
    voice, an authentic stance. It's
  • 00:32:37
    probably part of the brand um, aspect,
  • 00:32:39
    but I feel like that's really critical.
  • 00:32:42
    Yeah, I I agree. Um, I mean it just it
  • 00:32:46
    makes it makes everything work better.
  • 00:32:49
    Like it it makes people love the product
  • 00:32:50
    more. It makes them want to share it
  • 00:32:51
    more. It makes them
  • 00:32:54
    uh just increases affinity and trust
  • 00:32:57
    with the brand. So I I agree. And it's
  • 00:33:00
    an unfair advantage um for people. Yeah,
  • 00:33:04
    definitely agree. Anything else?
  • 00:33:08
    I mean that's pretty much the core of
  • 00:33:10
    it, I'd say. Um Cool. Yeah.
  • 00:33:14
    Um, and just curious like are there one,
  • 00:33:18
    two, three apps that you can think of
  • 00:33:21
    that you look up to that you're like
  • 00:33:24
    they've done these things that people
  • 00:33:27
    should look at as like a uh inspiration
  • 00:33:31
    for for for for you know mobile app
  • 00:33:34
    ideas.
  • 00:33:36
    Um, I think that, you know, if you want
  • 00:33:37
    to look for consumer social inspo, I'd
  • 00:33:40
    hope that people look to to some of my
  • 00:33:41
    ads, uh, specifically NGL. I think on
  • 00:33:44
    the AI side, I do think that Zach uh,
  • 00:33:46
    and Blake and the guys at Cali crushed
  • 00:33:49
    that. Really did an amazing job on the
  • 00:33:51
    AI app side. Um, and then I'd say like
  • 00:33:55
    um, I mean there's lots of apps that I
  • 00:33:57
    respect. You brought up Lockit. That's a
  • 00:33:59
    great example of an app that crushed on
  • 00:34:01
    social. Um, and uh, we didn't talk about
  • 00:34:03
    that, but also Pangu. Um, I I I know
  • 00:34:07
    those guys well, and I think that what
  • 00:34:09
    they're doing with, you know, character
  • 00:34:11
    animation and AI and kind of creating
  • 00:34:13
    this more this like human experience
  • 00:34:15
    between an AI is very interesting. Uh,
  • 00:34:18
    and like definitely worth exploring. I
  • 00:34:20
    feel like we're going to see a lot more
  • 00:34:21
    of those things for different like
  • 00:34:23
    contextualbased use cases. Um, you know,
  • 00:34:26
    not just like an AI friend, but like
  • 00:34:28
    different, you know, kind of
  • 00:34:29
    personalities to help you on the way.
  • 00:34:31
    So, Panganger is a great one to look at.
  • 00:34:33
    Um, yeah, I mean, those are the ones
  • 00:34:34
    that like just jump out to me just from
  • 00:34:36
    my pure uh memory, but uh very very
  • 00:34:40
    impressive apps. So, Pangu for for
  • 00:34:44
    people who don't know, it's it's
  • 00:34:47
    essentially like a virtual pet, right?
  • 00:34:51
    Yeah.
  • 00:34:52
    So, this is a great example of
  • 00:34:57
    um it's not like they invented virtual
  • 00:35:01
    pets, you know, when I was a kid. I
  • 00:35:03
    remember getting a a Tamagotchi like OG
  • 00:35:07
    from the '9s, you know, and even then
  • 00:35:10
    that was like that was a new form factor
  • 00:35:12
    of the time. It was like the first time
  • 00:35:14
    you'd be able to have like essentially a
  • 00:35:16
    portable computer and and then, you
  • 00:35:18
    know, a lot of kids had them now.
  • 00:35:21
    This is virtual pets on mobile has has
  • 00:35:25
    existed for a while but they haven't
  • 00:35:26
    existed with the degree of AI that's
  • 00:35:29
    been injected into them right. Yeah.
  • 00:35:32
    Yeah. Exactly. So one way to think about
  • 00:35:36
    startup ideas for in general like you
  • 00:35:39
    know I love your your playbook but I
  • 00:35:41
    think also thinking about it like NGL
  • 00:35:43
    for X, Cali for X, Lockit for X, Pangu
  • 00:35:47
    for X. thinking about what you know what
  • 00:35:50
    other niches like how can you take that
  • 00:35:53
    format and just apply it to other
  • 00:35:54
    niches. Totally. Yeah. I mean I think
  • 00:35:58
    that like you know Pangu is a great
  • 00:36:00
    example of that for sure. I mean, we
  • 00:36:01
    talked earlier about like Hallow, right?
  • 00:36:03
    And like, you know, you know, these like
  • 00:36:05
    um spirituality apps, you know, it could
  • 00:36:07
    be interesting like a hybrid of a Pangu
  • 00:36:09
    type app with a spirituality type app,
  • 00:36:11
    right? Like that's a that's an
  • 00:36:12
    interesting niche that I don't think
  • 00:36:14
    people have explored fully or you know,
  • 00:36:16
    rather than you know, a calorie tracking
  • 00:36:18
    app using you know, you know, GPT vision
  • 00:36:20
    for something else that that that maybe
  • 00:36:22
    is a novel experience, right? I do think
  • 00:36:24
    that like it's more about looking for
  • 00:36:26
    frameworks than it is for looking for
  • 00:36:28
    like ideas. Uh the framework I feel like
  • 00:36:30
    is more important because now it's
  • 00:36:33
    really easy to just like framework X you
  • 00:36:35
    know with you know audience Y
  • 00:36:39
    you
  • 00:36:40
    mentioned uh GBT
  • 00:36:44
    vision we talked about widgets what what
  • 00:36:48
    technology are you interested in right
  • 00:36:51
    now
  • 00:36:53
    um well I'm very interested in crypto
  • 00:36:55
    and crypto going mainstream and getting
  • 00:36:58
    real regulation being accepted now by
  • 00:37:01
    the government. Um, that's really
  • 00:37:03
    exciting. Um, and a lot of people now
  • 00:37:05
    kind of building consumer apps in
  • 00:37:08
    crypto. I feel like that's like very
  • 00:37:10
    exciting for me. As far as like future
  • 00:37:12
    tech like this or on the horizon, I'm
  • 00:37:15
    really excited for augmented reality
  • 00:37:16
    glasses whenever those happen. I think
  • 00:37:19
    that's going to be a pretty incredible
  • 00:37:21
    experience when we can prompt an app
  • 00:37:23
    using our own, you know, Jarvis AI type
  • 00:37:26
    and uh and we can create a fully
  • 00:37:29
    immersive experience that anyone can
  • 00:37:30
    look through and see. And I think that's
  • 00:37:33
    really going to be um the the next step
  • 00:37:36
    of how we kind of take AI off of just
  • 00:37:38
    the phone and really becomes more
  • 00:37:40
    immersive and it becomes more sharable.
  • 00:37:43
    And I think it'll kind of mirror the the
  • 00:37:45
    trend of, you know, where everything's
  • 00:37:47
    going with AI coding tools like cursor
  • 00:37:50
    um and AI video tools. I think it's all
  • 00:37:52
    going to kind of like have this
  • 00:37:54
    interesting singularity where we're
  • 00:37:57
    going to be able to just create anything
  • 00:37:58
    and anyone can see it in full immersive
  • 00:38:01
    detail and then we can share it. And I
  • 00:38:03
    feel like that's going to require the
  • 00:38:06
    next step in hardware. Um so I'm bullish
  • 00:38:09
    on that. I don't know when Apple's going
  • 00:38:11
    to finally unveil what they have there,
  • 00:38:13
    but I'm sure it's sitting somewhere in
  • 00:38:16
    the basement. Um, and they have the
  • 00:38:18
    glasses ready to go, but uh, I can't
  • 00:38:20
    wait for that. That's what I'm super
  • 00:38:21
    excited for, like, you know, the next
  • 00:38:23
    hardware platform. I feel like we're
  • 00:38:25
    we're not quite there yet, but we'll
  • 00:38:27
    start to see it soon, I think. What
  • 00:38:29
    about local running local models on on
  • 00:38:33
    phones? Do you think that phone, you
  • 00:38:35
    know, AI models will be run in the cloud
  • 00:38:38
    like they are today? You know, you use
  • 00:38:41
    chat GPT and it's all hosted by them or
  • 00:38:43
    do you think people are going to have it
  • 00:38:45
    local on their phones and and and on the
  • 00:38:48
    web on desktop? Um, I think that the
  • 00:38:51
    phones eventually, yes, absolutely. I
  • 00:38:54
    think that I do think that like the
  • 00:38:55
    phone will be the driving compute for
  • 00:38:57
    whatever the glasses are. I don't think
  • 00:38:59
    that the compute's going to be happening
  • 00:39:00
    on the glasses. So, I think that in the
  • 00:39:02
    way that we're using the cloud to do all
  • 00:39:04
    the AI um training and generation, I
  • 00:39:07
    think it'll be like the phones will have
  • 00:39:08
    to get more advanced. They'll have to be
  • 00:39:10
    able to handle more of these, you know,
  • 00:39:12
    LLMs. Um I could see it happening for
  • 00:39:15
    sure. I could definitely see it
  • 00:39:16
    happening. Um but I also we don't know,
  • 00:39:19
    you know, maybe it requires even more
  • 00:39:21
    compute to do the even crazier things.
  • 00:39:23
    So, it might stay in the cloud, but I
  • 00:39:25
    could totally see a future where like
  • 00:39:27
    all the compute and all the LLM stuff is
  • 00:39:29
    happening on the phone and then you have
  • 00:39:30
    like super lightweight glasses that are
  • 00:39:32
    just connected over Bluetooth and the
  • 00:39:34
    processing is being sent to the
  • 00:39:37
    iPhone. If you're um so these are three
  • 00:39:40
    trends that trends in tech that you know
  • 00:39:42
    you you think are interested in that
  • 00:39:44
    you're interested in. If you're just
  • 00:39:47
    starting out, you know, you want to make
  • 00:39:49
    your first million dollars, $10
  • 00:39:51
    million, maybe even more, um, and you're
  • 00:39:54
    trying to create a startup to go and do
  • 00:39:56
    that. Um, what sort of trends in tech
  • 00:40:00
    should people be
  • 00:40:03
    um, you know, focused on? I guess
  • 00:40:07
    I I do think that for young people who I
  • 00:40:10
    can talk to more specifically about
  • 00:40:11
    this, like people that are in their
  • 00:40:13
    teenage years, 20s, you know, in college
  • 00:40:15
    or post college, I do think that um you
  • 00:40:19
    know, when you're young, you you want to
  • 00:40:20
    take a lot of swings and a lot of risks
  • 00:40:22
    and a lot of like you want to have a lot
  • 00:40:24
    of at bats, a lot of tries. So, I do
  • 00:40:26
    think that building consumer mobile apps
  • 00:40:28
    is like the best thing to be doing if
  • 00:40:30
    you're a young person. Obviously, I'm
  • 00:40:32
    biased. That's like all I've ever done
  • 00:40:34
    my whole life. But I do think that like
  • 00:40:36
    when it comes to understanding human
  • 00:40:38
    psychology, figuring out how to build a
  • 00:40:40
    product that people love, um figuring
  • 00:40:43
    out how to go viral and kind of create
  • 00:40:44
    these, you know, global experiences,
  • 00:40:46
    like you can really like touch the whole
  • 00:40:48
    world using, you know, consumer social
  • 00:40:50
    and consumer um consumer just consumer
  • 00:40:53
    apps in general, right? It's like the
  • 00:40:55
    way that people and the way that humans
  • 00:40:57
    interact with the world is through apps
  • 00:40:59
    and through our phones. So, I feel like
  • 00:41:01
    if you're a young person and you're
  • 00:41:02
    looking at tech and like where do I go?
  • 00:41:04
    I would really go on the consumer side
  • 00:41:07
    um versus going on like the B2B side,
  • 00:41:09
    the SAS side just because I feel like um
  • 00:41:12
    you know those things aren't as call it
  • 00:41:14
    traditionally fun than compared to a
  • 00:41:18
    consumer app, right? Consumer app is a
  • 00:41:19
    little more fun. You know, you're you're
  • 00:41:21
    dealing with building things for lots of
  • 00:41:22
    people. You're not dealing so much of
  • 00:41:24
    like, you know, the B2B world of dealing
  • 00:41:26
    with businesses and contracts. It's more
  • 00:41:28
    of like build a great product, figure
  • 00:41:29
    out how to market it, build something
  • 00:41:31
    people love. Um, so I would say like
  • 00:41:33
    yeah, young people, just anyone that's
  • 00:41:35
    looking to get into tech, I I would just
  • 00:41:37
    get into the consumer side also because
  • 00:41:39
    the tools are getting much better. So
  • 00:41:41
    within a a short amount of time here,
  • 00:41:43
    you will not need any technical person
  • 00:41:46
    with you. I think still we need we need
  • 00:41:48
    someone. We're not fully there yet, but
  • 00:41:50
    um I do think yeah, consumer is the way
  • 00:41:52
    to go for sure. Cool. I love it. Hunter
  • 00:41:56
    Isacson giving away playbooks, giving
  • 00:41:58
    away sauce. I knew I knew you'd bring
  • 00:42:00
    it. Uh, we did zero preparation for this
  • 00:42:03
    podcast.
  • 00:42:05
    And I said I said to him right before
  • 00:42:07
    this, I said, "This is what I would ask
  • 00:42:10
    you in person, like if we were just
  • 00:42:11
    catching up for coffee." So, I wanted
  • 00:42:13
    that to be this experience. And uh, so I
  • 00:42:17
    appreciate you, man. And um, Hunter, if
  • 00:42:19
    people want to get to know you better,
  • 00:42:22
    how can they how can they do it?
  • 00:42:24
    Follow me on uh on X and Instagram,
  • 00:42:27
    Hunter J. Isacson. And yeah, I post
  • 00:42:30
    there regularly. I uh I give insights. I
  • 00:42:33
    help young people in the industry and
  • 00:42:35
    mentorship and I'm always, you know, a
  • 00:42:38
    resource for people that are getting
  • 00:42:39
    into consumer social. So yeah, follow
  • 00:42:42
    me, hit me up, send me your app. I'd
  • 00:42:44
    love to see it. I'll include those links
  • 00:42:46
    in the show notes to make it easy on
  • 00:42:48
    people. Um, and then like always, I read
  • 00:42:53
    every single every single darn YouTube
  • 00:42:56
    comment. So, please say hello, say
  • 00:42:59
    what's up. Let us know if you enjoyed
  • 00:43:01
    this episode and what we should be
  • 00:43:03
    covering next. Startup ideas podcast,
  • 00:43:06
    Hunter Isacson. It's been real. I'll see
  • 00:43:08
    you around Miami, my friend. Yes. And,
  • 00:43:11
    uh, hopefully people enjoy this episode
  • 00:43:13
    so you can come back. I would love that.
  • 00:43:16
    And yes, I'll see you in Miami soon,
  • 00:43:17
    brother. All right, I'll catch you
  • 00:43:19
    later. All right, man.
タグ
  • Hunter Isacson
  • consumer apps
  • mobile apps
  • branding
  • user experience
  • social media
  • growth strategies
  • north star metric
  • entrepreneurship
  • technology trends