Rep. Burchett: Believing UFOs are in the Bible is not anti-Christian | Reality Check

00:45:23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5iPtsQy2cg

概要

TLDRThis video discusses the relationship between religious beliefs, especially Christianity, and the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence. Congressman Tim Burett and Dr. Paul Thigpen analyze survey statistics on belief in God and extraterrestrial life, and delve into theological discussions regarding angels, demons, and biblical references to anomalous phenomena. They explore the Catholic Church's progressive stance on extraterrestrial life and the implications for faith. The dialogue raises intriguing questions about the nature of intelligence, spirituality, and possible connections between religious texts and UFO phenomena.

収穫

  • 🔍 74% of Americans believe in God.
  • 🌌 65% believe in intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.
  • 🛸 51% see UFOs as potential signs of extraterrestrial life.
  • 📖 Biblical references may describe non-human intelligence.
  • 👂 The Catholic Church has a history of engaging with the idea of extraterrestrial life.
  • ⚖️ Angels and demons are forms of non-human intelligences in Christianity.
  • 🤔 Belief systems may shape perspectives on extraterrestrials.
  • 💬 Open discussions on faith and science are encouraged.
  • 📚 Pope John Paul II's view: aliens are God's children too.
  • ⏳ The question of whether God is humanoid remains debated.

タイムライン

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    The episode introduces Congressman Tim Burchett and Dr. Paul Thigpen to discuss the intersection of religious beliefs, particularly Christianity, and the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence. The conversation reveals that while 74% of Americans believe in God, only 65% think intelligent life exists beyond Earth, and only 11% firmly believe that UAPs (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) are evidence of non-human intelligence. This disparity prompts a discussion about cultural influences on beliefs regarding extraterrestrial intelligence.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Dr. Thigpen comments on the historical context of beliefs regarding non-human intelligence, noting that historically, many theologians accepted the possibility of other forms of intelligence—an exception in modernity. He suggests that angels, as understood in Christianity, represent a form of non-human intelligence, but distinguishes between them and other potential extraterrestrial beings.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    The discussion shifts to biblical accounts involving unusual phenomena in the Bible, particularly Ezekiel's visions and references to angels. Both gentlemen explore whether these accounts might align with contemporary descriptions of UAPs, highlighting how cultural context influences interpretation and understanding of religious texts.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Congressman Burchett expresses a personal belief that the Bible does not exclude the existence of other life forms and suggests that ancient descriptions, such as Ezekiel's vision, could be likened to modern flying saucer descriptions. He emphasizes the importance of a broader understanding of faith that doesn't limit God's creation to Earth alone.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    As the conversation unfolds, they explore the implications of being created in God's image and whether that restricts the existence of other intelligent creatures. Dr. Thigpen clarifies that being made in God's image refers more to having a rational soul rather than a physical resemblance, suggesting that other beings could still share this quality.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Attention is directed toward the Vatican's view on extraterrestrial life, with Dr. Thigpen mentioning progressive attitudes towards the possibility of other intelligent beings. The discussion echoes historical apprehensions within the Church regarding new astronomical discoveries and doctrines.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    The gentlemen touch upon the notion of demonic associations with UFO phenomena and the concerns held by some evangelical groups. Burchett shares his apprehension that certain UFO communities might engage in spiritual practices that could be viewed as inviting demonic influences, indicating a split within religious communities about interpretations of UAP experiences.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    Dr. Thigpen and Congressman Burchett consider the complexity of human experiences with UAPs and the possibility of overlapping spiritual realms. They recognize the issues within some Christian circles that dismiss UAP encounters entirely as a threat to faith, whilst arguing for a more nuanced understanding.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:45:23

    As they conclude, Burchett and Dr. Thigpen acknowledge that the intersecting worlds of faith and science may one day reveal more about the nature of intelligence—human or otherwise—in the universe, echoing a call for ongoing exploration of these vital questions.

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ビデオQ&A

  • What percentage of Americans believe in God?

    74% of Americans believe in God.

  • How many believe in intelligent life on other planets?

    65% believe that intelligent life exists on other planets.

  • What is the belief regarding UFOs as evidence of extraterrestrial life?

    51% believe that reported UFOs (UAPs) are likely evidence of intelligent life from outside Earth.

  • How does the Catholic Church view the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligence?

    The Catholic Church has not officially ruled out the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence and has been open to discussions about it.

  • What did Pope John Paul II say about aliens?

    Pope John Paul II stated that if aliens exist, they would also be God's children.

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  • 00:00:00
    [Music]
  • 00:00:04
    hello and welcome back to a special
  • 00:00:07
    edition of reality check this week we're
  • 00:00:10
    looking at the possible connection
  • 00:00:12
    between religious beliefs Christianity
  • 00:00:15
    and other religions and the notion of an
  • 00:00:19
    extraterrestrial or non-human
  • 00:00:21
    intelligence and joining us this week
  • 00:00:23
    I'm very honored to have Congressman Tim
  • 00:00:26
    burett who's from Knoxville Tennessee
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    and he serves on the house oversight and
  • 00:00:32
    accountability committee I've had the
  • 00:00:33
    pleasure of getting to know Tim before
  • 00:00:36
    and he's one of the more prominent
  • 00:00:37
    members of what's becoming Loosely
  • 00:00:39
    called the UAP caucus a group of uh
  • 00:00:43
    mainly lowerhouse members who are
  • 00:00:45
    pushing for greater transparency and
  • 00:00:48
    openness from the US government defense
  • 00:00:50
    and intelligence community on the
  • 00:00:52
    subject of non-human
  • 00:00:55
    intelligence and I've also got with me
  • 00:00:57
    today Dr Paul Thigpen who's from
  • 00:01:00
    Savannah Georgia he's a retired
  • 00:01:03
    professor of religious history and
  • 00:01:05
    historical theology a prolific
  • 00:01:08
    bestselling author what is it Paul 58
  • 00:01:10
    books or something ridiculous how many
  • 00:01:12
    have you
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    written UH
  • 00:01:15
    60 60 I mean that's just an overachiever
  • 00:01:18
    but you're now a journalist with a PhD
  • 00:01:21
    in historical Theology and um you were
  • 00:01:24
    once an atheist then you became a
  • 00:01:26
    Protestant Pastor then you went into the
  • 00:01:29
    Catholic Church and you've actually
  • 00:01:30
    served at quite a high level on the
  • 00:01:32
    national advisory committee for for us
  • 00:01:35
    Catholic Bishops but most interestingly
  • 00:01:38
    you've been the author about two years
  • 00:01:40
    ago of a book with a very provocative
  • 00:01:42
    title extraterrestrial intelligence and
  • 00:01:46
    the Catholic faith now I guess I want to
  • 00:01:50
    start today by saying on the polls
  • 00:01:55
    74% of Americans in the United States
  • 00:01:59
    say that they believe believe in God yet
  • 00:02:02
    a lesser percentage of Americans that
  • 00:02:05
    65% believe that intelligent life exists
  • 00:02:08
    on other planets and an even lesser
  • 00:02:11
    percentage
  • 00:02:12
    51% believe that the UFOs uaps that are
  • 00:02:17
    reported by Witnesses on this planet are
  • 00:02:20
    likely evidence of intelligent life from
  • 00:02:22
    outside Earth and when you get to the
  • 00:02:25
    issue of who in America definitely
  • 00:02:27
    believe that uaps are evident of a
  • 00:02:30
    non-human intelligence there's only 11%
  • 00:02:34
    of Americans believe in definitely a
  • 00:02:37
    non-human intelligence engaging with
  • 00:02:39
    this planet so what's going on here
  • 00:02:42
    gentlemen do you want to start Paul
  • 00:02:44
    you're you're the uh the theoretician
  • 00:02:46
    you're the professor who's made a study
  • 00:02:48
    of this where do you stand on the issue
  • 00:02:51
    of extraterrestrial or non-human
  • 00:02:53
    intelligence and religious belief why is
  • 00:02:56
    there such a huge difference in belief
  • 00:03:00
    I think it has a lot to do with um our
  • 00:03:03
    surrounding culture at least in the
  • 00:03:04
    United States the the truth is a good
  • 00:03:07
    portion of my book is looking at the
  • 00:03:09
    history of what I call the the ETI extr
  • 00:03:12
    terest intelligent conversation and um
  • 00:03:15
    all the way back to the ancient Greeks
  • 00:03:17
    so back 2500 years and uh it's
  • 00:03:20
    interesting to see that historically our
  • 00:03:22
    period is the anomalous period in that
  • 00:03:25
    we don't the majority of people don't
  • 00:03:27
    believe in other kinds of human
  • 00:03:30
    intelligence so Christians certainly
  • 00:03:32
    believe in in angels that's a form of
  • 00:03:33
    nhi but up until early 20th century it
  • 00:03:38
    was it was the norm for for theologians
  • 00:03:41
    for philosophers others to accept the
  • 00:03:44
    possibility to take it seriously and so
  • 00:03:47
    we're the we're the exception to the can
  • 00:03:49
    I stop you there for a moment Paul so
  • 00:03:52
    the the notion in the Christian faith of
  • 00:03:55
    angels you would say that angels are a
  • 00:03:58
    form of non human intelligence and I I
  • 00:04:01
    guess by definition then that would also
  • 00:04:04
    include God who Christians believe is a
  • 00:04:07
    creator of humans and other animals and
  • 00:04:09
    creatures and also demons the evil
  • 00:04:13
    creatures associated with those
  • 00:04:14
    religious beliefs are they all nonhuman
  • 00:04:17
    intelligence in your understanding well
  • 00:04:20
    yes demons are actually Angels they're
  • 00:04:21
    just the ones who who fell who turned
  • 00:04:23
    away from God but in their in their
  • 00:04:25
    Essence they're angels and uh I don't
  • 00:04:28
    usually think of God as nonhuman
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    intellig Ence but of course he's
  • 00:04:31
    intelligent he's he's personal he's not
  • 00:04:34
    some impersonal Force um but when I
  • 00:04:36
    speak of NH I'm not non-human
  • 00:04:38
    intelligence I'm usually talking about
  • 00:04:40
    God's creatures rather than God
  • 00:04:44
    himself Okay so Tim let's come to you
  • 00:04:47
    sir I'm fascinated by the references in
  • 00:04:51
    the Bible to what sound like anomalous
  • 00:04:55
    paranormal events and Paul I know you
  • 00:04:58
    take a contrary View on this which is
  • 00:05:00
    going to be the fun part of this program
  • 00:05:02
    but I'm going to read uh an excerpt from
  • 00:05:05
    E uh firstly acts
  • 00:05:08
    n um and it's the story of what happened
  • 00:05:11
    to Jesus after he was resurrected which
  • 00:05:13
    is probably um quite apt for the coming
  • 00:05:16
    weekend he was taken up into heaven and
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    in Acts 1:9
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    quote after he said this he was taken up
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    before their very eyes and a cloud hid
  • 00:05:27
    him from their sight they were looking
  • 00:05:29
    intently up into the sky as he was going
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    when suddenly two men dressed in white
  • 00:05:35
    Stood Beside them men of Galilee they
  • 00:05:39
    said why do you stand here looking into
  • 00:05:41
    the sky this same Jesus who has been
  • 00:05:45
    taken from you into heaven will come
  • 00:05:47
    back in the same way you have seen him
  • 00:05:50
    go into heaven and then Tim before I
  • 00:05:52
    bring you in on this I I also like
  • 00:05:55
    Ezekiel 1
  • 00:05:57
    4-6 quote then I looked and behold a
  • 00:06:01
    whirlwind was coming out of the North a
  • 00:06:04
    great cloud with Raging Fire engulfing
  • 00:06:07
    itself and brightness was all around it
  • 00:06:11
    and radiating out of its M midst like
  • 00:06:14
    the color of amber out of the midst of
  • 00:06:17
    the fire also from with it within it
  • 00:06:19
    came the likeness of four living
  • 00:06:21
    creatures and this was their appearance
  • 00:06:24
    they had the likeness of a man each one
  • 00:06:28
    had four faces and each one had four
  • 00:06:31
    wings now I know there are lots of
  • 00:06:34
    references in the Bible that sound
  • 00:06:36
    extraordinary paranormal and anomalous
  • 00:06:39
    but I guess to my very biased de aren't
  • 00:06:43
    we talking there about the possibility
  • 00:06:45
    of non-human intelligence flying sources
  • 00:06:48
    UFOs
  • 00:06:50
    Tim well if I could address the Ezekiel
  • 00:06:53
    part first I've talked about that a lot
  • 00:06:55
    and I've read up on that and you know I
  • 00:06:57
    maybe not be the I'm not as learned as
  • 00:06:59
    my friend here from from Georgia but I
  • 00:07:02
    you know I've lived my whole life I've
  • 00:07:04
    um read my Bible and and I I'm a born
  • 00:07:07
    again chrisan and I have no problem with
  • 00:07:09
    there being uh other life forms out
  • 00:07:12
    there I don't see the Bible limits that
  • 00:07:14
    I hear people say that it does but I
  • 00:07:16
    just just don't um in the vastness of
  • 00:07:19
    God's Great universe but Ezekiel you
  • 00:07:22
    know Ezekiel Saw the Wheel and and it
  • 00:07:25
    was uh you know this is a King James
  • 00:07:27
    interpretation uh from I believe my
  • 00:07:30
    friend there is it Aramaic is that what
  • 00:07:33
    the original the Bible was probably
  • 00:07:35
    spoken in originally I think I'm not
  • 00:07:37
    sure but you know this is a translation
  • 00:07:39
    so this is people that didn't have the
  • 00:07:42
    advancements that we have and we
  • 00:07:43
    comparing something seeing something to
  • 00:07:46
    something that they know all they know
  • 00:07:49
    about and so I think Ezekiel is I think
  • 00:07:53
    he's talking about a a flying saucer of
  • 00:07:55
    sorts I think um but the in the other
  • 00:07:58
    version the other verse I believe you
  • 00:08:00
    said about acts you know I've I've read
  • 00:08:03
    that before and I've I've read different
  • 00:08:05
    interpretations and I you know we were
  • 00:08:08
    always taught to believe that that was
  • 00:08:09
    those those were Angels or um and there
  • 00:08:12
    was two of them and I've heard that that
  • 00:08:14
    could have been um the two uh the um
  • 00:08:18
    there was two other reference I can't
  • 00:08:20
    remember the exact I haven't done my
  • 00:08:22
    research on this right now but um I
  • 00:08:24
    guess long story short I have no problem
  • 00:08:26
    believing that there's there's mentions
  • 00:08:28
    of extra arals in the Bible and it just
  • 00:08:31
    it doesn't question my faith one bit it
  • 00:08:33
    doesn't hurt it or damage it matter of
  • 00:08:36
    fact it makes it stronger it makes a lot
  • 00:08:38
    more vast than we as Christians
  • 00:08:40
    sometimes make it this little
  • 00:08:41
    comfortable little box on this little
  • 00:08:44
    round rock we call it we call
  • 00:08:47
    Earth so Paul is the notion of angels
  • 00:08:53
    incompatible with the notion of aliens
  • 00:08:56
    is it possible that we're talking about
  • 00:08:57
    one and the same thing is God perhaps
  • 00:09:01
    God good Heavens I hope I'm not saying
  • 00:09:03
    this in in a heretical or insulting way
  • 00:09:06
    to to people of religious Faith but is
  • 00:09:08
    it possible that God is an
  • 00:09:13
    alien wow I would uh you God at least in
  • 00:09:17
    the Christian faith God is in a totally
  • 00:09:19
    different category from what we might
  • 00:09:21
    consider an alien whatever aliens exist
  • 00:09:25
    uh or his his creation he's not one of
  • 00:09:28
    them and um excuse me I angels angels
  • 00:09:32
    are a non-human intelligence but uh I
  • 00:09:35
    don't think we want to automatically
  • 00:09:38
    kind of equate them uh with angels in
  • 00:09:40
    some way but what I like to say is this
  • 00:09:43
    when you look at the U experiences that
  • 00:09:46
    people have with with um unidentified
  • 00:09:49
    area phenomena today what often happens
  • 00:09:52
    when they they describe their experience
  • 00:09:54
    and um to people who don't believe in
  • 00:09:56
    such things and what's always the
  • 00:09:58
    response oh well you must have really X
  • 00:10:01
    Y or Z you had a hallucination you had a
  • 00:10:04
    dream uh you're drunk uh you saw swamp
  • 00:10:07
    gas whatever because what they're doing
  • 00:10:09
    is they dismiss what the person says
  • 00:10:11
    because um they don't believe in what
  • 00:10:14
    that person thinks it was but they
  • 00:10:15
    believe in something else so they'll
  • 00:10:17
    they'll make you know identification
  • 00:10:19
    there and I think we have to be careful
  • 00:10:20
    with sacred text the same way that um
  • 00:10:23
    the the passage in Acts is I think is
  • 00:10:27
    very clear it says app appearance of men
  • 00:10:28
    but um very clear in the Christian
  • 00:10:31
    tradition that those were angels and uh
  • 00:10:33
    in Ezekiel uh it's very clear in the
  • 00:10:36
    Christian tradition in the rest of the
  • 00:10:38
    context that in both cases that this was
  • 00:10:40
    not unidentified to the people who are
  • 00:10:43
    seeing it they knew exactly what they
  • 00:10:44
    were seeing and they gave an
  • 00:10:45
    interpretation of what it was so I think
  • 00:10:47
    we have to respect that both The
  • 00:10:50
    Observers and those who recorded it and
  • 00:10:52
    the Traditions since then that it is you
  • 00:10:56
    know I take it that that's that's
  • 00:10:58
    exactly what it was that they were
  • 00:10:59
    Angels even in Ezekiel they were known
  • 00:11:01
    as Angels but also the glory of the Lord
  • 00:11:04
    so I
  • 00:11:05
    um to answer your question by aliens and
  • 00:11:08
    and uh Angels at least in the Catholic
  • 00:11:11
    tradition there's a very clear um kind
  • 00:11:13
    of definition understanding that Angels
  • 00:11:15
    were uh non-human intelligence created
  • 00:11:18
    before human beings were some of them
  • 00:11:20
    fell and turned against God those are
  • 00:11:22
    demons some did not that the word angel
  • 00:11:25
    means messenger that uh God still sends
  • 00:11:27
    them uh to us to help us in various ways
  • 00:11:31
    and um and that they are purely
  • 00:11:32
    Spiritual Beings they don't have uh
  • 00:11:34
    Corporal bodies they don't exist in
  • 00:11:36
    space they can act on Space they don't
  • 00:11:38
    move through space and so to to speak of
  • 00:11:42
    alien in the sense of a creature from
  • 00:11:44
    another planet or another dimension um
  • 00:11:48
    is is really very different from the
  • 00:11:49
    Catholic understanding of what an angel
  • 00:11:52
    is okay so let's let's acknowledge here
  • 00:11:56
    that obviously Christianity is one of
  • 00:11:57
    many religions um the Islamic Quran for
  • 00:12:01
    example there's um a line in the Quran
  • 00:12:03
    which says all praise is for Allah Lord
  • 00:12:06
    of all worlds and there's another one
  • 00:12:09
    and among his signs is the creation of
  • 00:12:11
    the heavens and the Earth and of
  • 00:12:13
    whatever living creatures he has spread
  • 00:12:15
    forth in both and he has the power to
  • 00:12:18
    gather them together whenever he pleases
  • 00:12:21
    that's commonly interpreted by a lot of
  • 00:12:23
    islamist Scholars as an acknowledgement
  • 00:12:25
    by the Quran that there is indeed a
  • 00:12:28
    notion of there being other intelligent
  • 00:12:31
    living creatures in the universe let's
  • 00:12:34
    start from
  • 00:12:35
    Basics I'm intrigued by this line in
  • 00:12:37
    Genesis which says um in Genesis 1 127
  • 00:12:43
    quote so God created man in his own
  • 00:12:47
    image in the image of God he created him
  • 00:12:51
    male and female he created them isn't
  • 00:12:55
    that completely incompatible gentlemen
  • 00:12:57
    with the idea of there being other
  • 00:13:01
    intelligent living creatures that don't
  • 00:13:04
    look like
  • 00:13:06
    humans who wants to start I I I don't
  • 00:13:10
    think it's in you know incompatible at
  • 00:13:12
    all it's uh to be made in the image of
  • 00:13:14
    God again in the Catholic tradition is
  • 00:13:17
    to have a a a rational intellect and a
  • 00:13:20
    free will and uh and I would add that
  • 00:13:23
    that's what we would call a spirit or
  • 00:13:24
    soul and uh that it's Immortal and so
  • 00:13:29
    there's nothing there that says there
  • 00:13:31
    can't be others who are like that it's
  • 00:13:32
    talking about this planet but he he does
  • 00:13:35
    say that we created man in the image of
  • 00:13:39
    God so if if if man if humankind is
  • 00:13:44
    designed in the image of God are we to
  • 00:13:47
    assume that God is a humanoid and that
  • 00:13:50
    that the only you know dominant living
  • 00:13:53
    Creator creature is is a humanoid
  • 00:13:55
    creature therefore we look like that
  • 00:13:57
    humanoid creature or am I being to
  • 00:13:59
    literal here Tim what's your
  • 00:14:02
    view well you know again I'm not the
  • 00:14:06
    biblical
  • 00:14:07
    scholar but you could say the same thing
  • 00:14:10
    well why are there black folks why are
  • 00:14:12
    there Asian folks why are there white
  • 00:14:14
    folks are there you know if is God a a
  • 00:14:19
    chameleon I mean you know I I could see
  • 00:14:21
    that being um I just think he's talking
  • 00:14:24
    about Earth and I think he's talking
  • 00:14:26
    about the likeness and maybe the pro
  • 00:14:29
    profile and as as as was stated you know
  • 00:14:33
    we're created with a soul we created in
  • 00:14:35
    in this general image and and you know
  • 00:14:39
    I've I've talked to people who've talked
  • 00:14:42
    about aliens from other planets and
  • 00:14:43
    things like that and they they always
  • 00:14:45
    call them a
  • 00:14:46
    humanoid type thing they don't you know
  • 00:14:49
    they they have a face they have arms and
  • 00:14:52
    legs and things like that so but I you
  • 00:14:55
    know I like I said I don't get too hung
  • 00:14:56
    up on all that stuff I really don't I I
  • 00:14:59
    I have enough confidence in the
  • 00:15:01
    scripture to believe that it's um you
  • 00:15:03
    know they're talking about Earth and and
  • 00:15:06
    I agree with what was said
  • 00:15:08
    earlier so Paul just to pin you down a
  • 00:15:11
    little bit because I am intrigued by
  • 00:15:12
    that chapter in
  • 00:15:14
    Genesis if if God made humankind in his
  • 00:15:18
    or her own image isn't that an implicit
  • 00:15:21
    acknowledgement by the Bible the text on
  • 00:15:24
    which Christianity is based that that
  • 00:15:26
    humans are entally the same as the same
  • 00:15:31
    type of species if you like as
  • 00:15:34
    God or am I being too Lal yeah I think
  • 00:15:38
    so well to physical maybe is a better
  • 00:15:39
    way to put it the um at least in the
  • 00:15:42
    Catholic tradition I'd say the the
  • 00:15:43
    majority of the Christian tradition the
  • 00:15:45
    image is not taken to mean the physical
  • 00:15:47
    body uh it's understood that that God
  • 00:15:49
    doesn't have a body except in the
  • 00:15:51
    Incarnation in Jesus Christ it was God
  • 00:15:53
    and took on a human nature with a body
  • 00:15:55
    but uh in his own Essence in his own
  • 00:15:57
    being uh he's pure Spirit but he he is
  • 00:16:01
    the Supreme rational intellect he has a
  • 00:16:04
    supremely free will um he is Immortal
  • 00:16:07
    and that in those ways we're made in the
  • 00:16:09
    image of God and I you know I'm pretty
  • 00:16:11
    sure a study of Judaism I think that
  • 00:16:14
    that notion that that's what the image
  • 00:16:16
    means something like that uh goes back
  • 00:16:18
    to to Jewish sources as well um I know
  • 00:16:22
    than the in the Catholic faith you you'd
  • 00:16:23
    be hard pressed to find some kind of
  • 00:16:25
    statement that um that our bodies have
  • 00:16:29
    to be in that image the closest you get
  • 00:16:31
    to that St Thomas aquinus will say
  • 00:16:33
    things like um when you talk about in
  • 00:16:35
    the scripture the hand of God then what
  • 00:16:38
    that means is that um we're Made In His
  • 00:16:41
    Image not he in ours and that just as he
  • 00:16:44
    has an active power that he can extend
  • 00:16:46
    into the world to do things uh we have
  • 00:16:50
    uh hands that can extend into the world
  • 00:16:52
    to do things doesn't mean that God has a
  • 00:16:53
    physical hand but it does mean that
  • 00:16:55
    aspects even like that in a secondary
  • 00:16:57
    way show that we're we're made like
  • 00:17:01
    it okay so look I I i' I've actually the
  • 00:17:04
    great thing for you gentlemen is that
  • 00:17:06
    the very irreligious me in the last week
  • 00:17:08
    or so since I've been preparing for this
  • 00:17:09
    interview has been reading my Bible and
  • 00:17:12
    it's not something that Ross cout has
  • 00:17:14
    done a lot of in his lifetime and I I
  • 00:17:16
    just want to say whilst it hasn't
  • 00:17:17
    converted me it's given me a lot of
  • 00:17:19
    thought because as well as that Ezekiel
  • 00:17:22
    line that that we discussed with both of
  • 00:17:24
    you there's also lines like this one
  • 00:17:27
    Zechariah 5
  • 00:17:29
    again I lifted my eyes and I saw and
  • 00:17:32
    behold a flying scroll and he said to me
  • 00:17:36
    what do you see I answered I see a
  • 00:17:39
    flying scroll its length is 20 cubits
  • 00:17:43
    and its width 10 cubits and there's more
  • 00:17:46
    there's Kings
  • 00:17:48
    211 as they still went on and talked
  • 00:17:51
    behold Chariots of Fire and Horses of
  • 00:17:54
    fire separated the two of them and
  • 00:17:56
    Elijah went up by a whirlwind in into
  • 00:17:59
    heaven I mean Forgive Me Maybe again I'm
  • 00:18:03
    being too literal but this is what the
  • 00:18:05
    Bible says that sounds like some kind of
  • 00:18:08
    paranormal phenomena that's not
  • 00:18:10
    inconsistent with what humans today
  • 00:18:13
    Witnesses describe as flying sources
  • 00:18:16
    anomalous objects in our skies how do we
  • 00:18:18
    know they're not let me take a stab at
  • 00:18:21
    that I think what they're doing is
  • 00:18:22
    comparing it to what they know and what
  • 00:18:25
    they have again Ezekiel Saw the Wheel
  • 00:18:27
    the wheel was the most techn IC Al
  • 00:18:29
    Advanced item they had at that time and
  • 00:18:32
    um and they're seeing something I I
  • 00:18:34
    forget what a cube it is I think um well
  • 00:18:37
    I can't remember right now I'm I'm I'm
  • 00:18:40
    lo
  • 00:18:41
    my Baptist Sunday school lessons are
  • 00:18:44
    fading in my memory at 59 I'm I guess
  • 00:18:47
    that's that's to be to be expected but
  • 00:18:50
    if you figure something if it's half as
  • 00:18:53
    half as wide as it is long you're
  • 00:18:55
    looking at a silhouette in the air and
  • 00:18:57
    it and that would to me would be a
  • 00:18:59
    saucer that would be the classic saucer
  • 00:19:01
    right there
  • 00:19:03
    um I don't know Paul you take a shot at
  • 00:19:06
    it I'm I'm I'm not sure this but that's
  • 00:19:09
    that's what I that's what I see I again
  • 00:19:12
    I just see they're comparing something
  • 00:19:14
    they're possibly not educated people and
  • 00:19:17
    they have that's all they have to
  • 00:19:18
    compare it to is is what they know and
  • 00:19:21
    that at the time was a
  • 00:19:22
    scroll
  • 00:19:24
    Co well again uh sacred text you know
  • 00:19:28
    you have
  • 00:19:29
    to uh if you if you accept them the
  • 00:19:32
    Catholic faith broader Christian faith
  • 00:19:35
    as in some way revealing the word of God
  • 00:19:37
    and coming to him from them then we um
  • 00:19:41
    then it makes sense when you read the
  • 00:19:43
    the context of each of these that to the
  • 00:19:44
    people witnessing them these weren't
  • 00:19:46
    unidentified at all they knew they knew
  • 00:19:49
    what they were they were knew that they
  • 00:19:50
    for instance in Ezekiel it talks about
  • 00:19:52
    the the glory of the Lord and actually
  • 00:19:55
    with the wheels and everything else it's
  • 00:19:57
    it's more closely aligned with what
  • 00:19:59
    a great Throne would look like for a
  • 00:20:00
    king uh of that time and so I I don't
  • 00:20:04
    think um that it's you know folks
  • 00:20:07
    ignorance kind of saying well here's a
  • 00:20:08
    flying saucer that's the best way I can
  • 00:20:09
    describe it but um more that that God
  • 00:20:12
    reveals something to them perhaps
  • 00:20:14
    through Angels sometimes more directly
  • 00:20:16
    and and they record what they they see
  • 00:20:18
    and they interpret it for us and I don't
  • 00:20:20
    want to say to them well I don't believe
  • 00:20:23
    in such stuff so you must really be
  • 00:20:25
    seeing something else that I do believe
  • 00:20:26
    in like like UFOs the scroll the context
  • 00:20:29
    of that was that it was actually
  • 00:20:30
    something written on there that he was
  • 00:20:32
    to
  • 00:20:34
    consume so I know that you're now are
  • 00:20:38
    practicing Catholic pool and it's
  • 00:20:40
    interesting it's it's I think it's very
  • 00:20:41
    interesting to me that the Vatican
  • 00:20:43
    particularly has been a church that has
  • 00:20:45
    taken a very close interest in astronomy
  • 00:20:49
    now what's the vatican's position what's
  • 00:20:52
    the Catholic Church's position on the
  • 00:20:55
    possibility of non-human intelligence
  • 00:20:58
    and how does that fit in with if you
  • 00:21:01
    like the Catholic Church's rejection of
  • 00:21:04
    the cernic idea for which Galo was of
  • 00:21:07
    course um tried and prosecuted
  • 00:21:10
    suggesting that the Earth wasn't at the
  • 00:21:12
    center of the universe I mean 400 years
  • 00:21:14
    ago you had the Catholic Church
  • 00:21:16
    punishing a scientist for espousing the
  • 00:21:19
    view that humans weren't at the center
  • 00:21:21
    of the universe um pushing the cernic
  • 00:21:24
    idea that um uh indeed you know there
  • 00:21:27
    was an alternative of explanation that
  • 00:21:29
    the sun was at the center so H how do
  • 00:21:32
    you reconcile that idea that I think has
  • 00:21:36
    dominated Christian belief that humans
  • 00:21:39
    uh are very much at the center of God
  • 00:21:43
    and ideas how does God fit within
  • 00:21:47
    HR great question so there actually
  • 00:21:49
    several questions there one of them uh I
  • 00:21:52
    think is that one of the things the
  • 00:21:54
    church learned at the time that was was
  • 00:21:56
    that the notion that this the Earth was
  • 00:21:59
    at the center had actually been
  • 00:22:01
    inherited from uh from pre-christian
  • 00:22:03
    Philosophy from folks like Aristotle and
  • 00:22:07
    those have been largely influenced a
  • 00:22:10
    great influence in Christian thinking
  • 00:22:12
    and when it came to be seen that you
  • 00:22:14
    know science is showing that's not the
  • 00:22:16
    case then right away you begin to have
  • 00:22:18
    Christian leaders letting go of it and
  • 00:22:19
    saying well you know that's not really
  • 00:22:20
    essential to our faith um I'm sorry for
  • 00:22:23
    what happened to Galileo at the time and
  • 00:22:25
    yet uh John Paul II has written
  • 00:22:28
    favorably about G Galileo and his his
  • 00:22:30
    testimony um the fact that the church
  • 00:22:33
    could then go on and say all right let's
  • 00:22:34
    let go of that uh non-Christian actually
  • 00:22:38
    a pre-christian
  • 00:22:39
    philosophy that led us to to this
  • 00:22:42
    position uh let go of it and and
  • 00:22:44
    accommodate that and that's one of the
  • 00:22:45
    reasons why I think that the Catholic
  • 00:22:47
    church can accommodate could accommodate
  • 00:22:49
    a a discovery or confirmation public of
  • 00:22:53
    other kinds of of non-human intelligence
  • 00:22:55
    but I'll also say uh St Augustine once
  • 00:22:58
    said he's one of my heroes once said
  • 00:23:00
    that um God loves each one of us as if
  • 00:23:02
    there were only one of us and every
  • 00:23:04
    parent of more than one child
  • 00:23:06
    understands exactly what he means by
  • 00:23:07
    that um you have your first child and
  • 00:23:09
    you think oh I could never love another
  • 00:23:11
    child like this and then another one
  • 00:23:13
    comes along and you say the same thing
  • 00:23:14
    and you you realize that having multiple
  • 00:23:17
    children to love uh does not divide your
  • 00:23:19
    love it multiplies your love and I think
  • 00:23:22
    uh for folks who have been concerned
  • 00:23:25
    that the discovery of other intelligent
  • 00:23:27
    species would somehow make us less
  • 00:23:29
    special in God's eyes um they failed to
  • 00:23:33
    understand this principle that's it's
  • 00:23:34
    been part of Catholic faith for a long
  • 00:23:36
    long time that we can we can be special
  • 00:23:39
    and they can be special
  • 00:23:41
    too you can
  • 00:23:44
    love Congressman berett I I know that
  • 00:23:48
    people like for example Lou alzando
  • 00:23:51
    who's obviously worked inside the
  • 00:23:53
    Pentagon and and investigated uaps UFOs
  • 00:23:56
    L's spoken publicly about the fact that
  • 00:23:59
    there is a view among some people in the
  • 00:24:02
    military particularly in the US Air
  • 00:24:04
    Force apparently a very strong
  • 00:24:05
    Evangelical position from Evangelical
  • 00:24:08
    Christians in the US Air Force that is
  • 00:24:11
    very hostile to the idea of engaging
  • 00:24:14
    with the subject of uaps not because
  • 00:24:17
    it's not real but because there's a a
  • 00:24:19
    genuine concern that it's demonic that
  • 00:24:22
    it's evil where do you stand on that do
  • 00:24:25
    you agree with
  • 00:24:27
    Lou I disagree with Lou he's a friend
  • 00:24:30
    but I I don't um I I would probably
  • 00:24:33
    modify that just a little bit um you
  • 00:24:36
    know I I think that there is a movement
  • 00:24:39
    in the UFO community that people are
  • 00:24:41
    opening themselves to demonic suggestion
  • 00:24:44
    I know people are doing seances and
  • 00:24:46
    things to bring these craft down or in
  • 00:24:51
    or something like that and to me it um
  • 00:24:54
    it reeks of a of a demonic uh suggestion
  • 00:24:59
    you open yourself up to that my dad used
  • 00:25:01
    to say if you open yourself up to that
  • 00:25:03
    that's that's when it happens and um not
  • 00:25:07
    not within the UFO movement but I worry
  • 00:25:09
    about that because there is a growing
  • 00:25:11
    community that that's what they do and
  • 00:25:13
    they pack it's a they talk about their
  • 00:25:15
    spiritualism and things like that and
  • 00:25:18
    and you know it has all the the essence
  • 00:25:21
    of a classic Seance and I I I worry
  • 00:25:24
    about that I really do um you know I'm
  • 00:25:28
    so you're you're talking there about
  • 00:25:30
    things like C5 where where there are
  • 00:25:33
    groups that do meditation and they draw
  • 00:25:36
    the the phenomenon they claim to be
  • 00:25:38
    engaging with a non-human intelligence
  • 00:25:41
    um is is that what's concerning you that
  • 00:25:43
    those kind of so-called C5 events which
  • 00:25:46
    are allegedly um attracting the
  • 00:25:49
    phenomenon uh engaging with a non-human
  • 00:25:51
    intelligence the risk you see as a
  • 00:25:54
    Christian is that that might be
  • 00:25:56
    demonic I do I do it's just the P of
  • 00:25:59
    suggestion I have a a friend that that
  • 00:26:02
    does some of this and um and I've seen
  • 00:26:06
    them just gradually drawn in to this
  • 00:26:09
    type of belief um and I and and to me
  • 00:26:13
    that that that's very disturbing that's
  • 00:26:16
    very disturbing and I I hear more I hear
  • 00:26:18
    members of Congress talk about the
  • 00:26:19
    Demonic suggestion of this type of
  • 00:26:21
    activity so I you know I try to stay a
  • 00:26:24
    far I don't you know as I've stated many
  • 00:26:26
    times my main concern is order we
  • 00:26:28
    spending tens of millions of dollars on
  • 00:26:30
    if they tell me this thing if it doesn't
  • 00:26:32
    exist why don't we keep spending money
  • 00:26:33
    then why won't why won't they issue the
  • 00:26:35
    reports to member of Congress you know
  • 00:26:37
    that's been my major concern with this
  • 00:26:39
    and as I've delved into it I've I've
  • 00:26:41
    found out about this community and it is
  • 00:26:43
    a growing
  • 00:26:44
    Community but I'll tell you one thing I
  • 00:26:46
    have learned in this I want to tell you
  • 00:26:48
    one thing I've learned in this I'm gonna
  • 00:26:50
    have to go back because of Paul I look
  • 00:26:52
    like a complete idiot up here I I need
  • 00:26:54
    to go back and I'm going to have to
  • 00:26:56
    start reading my Bible a little more
  • 00:26:57
    Paul so one thing one good deed you've
  • 00:26:59
    done today as a good Catholic you told
  • 00:27:01
    this old southern baptist he needs to go
  • 00:27:03
    back and read his Bible because now when
  • 00:27:05
    you're saying these things they draw
  • 00:27:07
    back into my mind um uh you know my the
  • 00:27:10
    teachings that I had as a youth so I
  • 00:27:12
    apologize to y'all for my less than
  • 00:27:15
    learned uh responses to some of your
  • 00:27:19
    questions now Tim I just want to pin you
  • 00:27:21
    down a little little bit so you think it
  • 00:27:24
    is likely that there are people in the
  • 00:27:26
    military who are reluctant to to engage
  • 00:27:29
    with the UAP subject because they're
  • 00:27:31
    genuinely fearful as committed
  • 00:27:33
    Christians that this might be engaging
  • 00:27:36
    in some way with demonic
  • 00:27:38
    forces I don't know about in the
  • 00:27:40
    military I haven't spoke to anybody
  • 00:27:42
    specifically in the military that that
  • 00:27:44
    believes that but I do believe that that
  • 00:27:46
    is an ongoing U phenomena in the UFO
  • 00:27:50
    community and that they are in fact
  • 00:27:53
    doing those type of things that I would
  • 00:27:55
    think would uh uh invoke some sort of
  • 00:27:58
    activity and that's to me is kind of
  • 00:28:02
    troubling Paul what do you say to
  • 00:28:05
    that well I it's uh that that notion
  • 00:28:09
    that concern that it's all demonic it's
  • 00:28:11
    uh in the Evangelical Community but also
  • 00:28:13
    in some of the Catholic community and
  • 00:28:17
    um my great concern is that uh the
  • 00:28:20
    reasons they'll folks who think that
  • 00:28:23
    will say it uh first of all they they
  • 00:28:25
    believe that it's contrary to Catholic
  • 00:28:26
    faith that such a thing could exist I
  • 00:28:28
    think if they'd read my book they might
  • 00:28:29
    change their minds um it's
  • 00:28:32
    it's plenty of room in the Catholic
  • 00:28:34
    Catholic Christian faith to to
  • 00:28:36
    accommodate that notion but also uh
  • 00:28:39
    there are examples of incidents uh in
  • 00:28:42
    which people have encounters that Sure
  • 00:28:45
    Fit the classic diabolical profile uh
  • 00:28:48
    I'll just mention one that I was
  • 00:28:50
    listening to a a podcast um won't
  • 00:28:53
    mention his name but someone well known
  • 00:28:55
    in the community who had been involved
  • 00:28:57
    with Skinwalker Ranch these things and
  • 00:28:59
    talking about the the so-called
  • 00:29:01
    hitchhiker phenomenon and he says that
  • 00:29:03
    at one point if I I'm not
  • 00:29:05
    misrepresenting him that the thing kind
  • 00:29:07
    of inside was invisible seized him and
  • 00:29:10
    began to speak through his his mouth
  • 00:29:12
    with a a voice that wasn't his that's
  • 00:29:15
    kind of a classical profile you know
  • 00:29:18
    Christian thinking that would be
  • 00:29:20
    diabolical demonic possession I'm not
  • 00:29:22
    saying he was possessed but I am saying
  • 00:29:24
    things like that give people reason to
  • 00:29:26
    you know con concern the abduction
  • 00:29:29
    phenomena in certain ways can seem like
  • 00:29:31
    diabolical possession my point is this I
  • 00:29:34
    think probably there is some overlap
  • 00:29:35
    we've got a lot of things going on here
  • 00:29:37
    with regard to UAP um and I think there
  • 00:29:41
    is some overlap that there are some
  • 00:29:42
    things that probably are diabolical and
  • 00:29:45
    I've never denied that but that to go
  • 00:29:47
    from that to to take a few some some
  • 00:29:50
    incidents and then jump to the
  • 00:29:51
    conclusion that it's all demonic when
  • 00:29:53
    the Great majority of UAP does not fit
  • 00:29:56
    any kind of diabolical profile as we've
  • 00:29:58
    understood it um I think that's that's
  • 00:30:01
    just a leap you can't make to make the
  • 00:30:03
    absolute statement it's all demonic it's
  • 00:30:05
    it's not it's a leap of logic we can't
  • 00:30:08
    take so one of the things I've been one
  • 00:30:12
    of the things I've been doing in my
  • 00:30:13
    research is I've been looking at the
  • 00:30:16
    current Pope Francis and of course his
  • 00:30:19
    um name before he became Pope was Jo
  • 00:30:22
    Mario BOGO and it's interesting there's
  • 00:30:25
    some research that's appeared in the
  • 00:30:27
    south American Press where it turns out
  • 00:30:31
    that the current pope was a very close
  • 00:30:33
    friend of one of Argentina's most
  • 00:30:36
    prominent ufologists a guy called Bonito
  • 00:30:39
    sugundo Rea who was an Argentine Jesuit
  • 00:30:43
    priest in astronomer who died in
  • 00:30:45
    1982 and apparently he was the most
  • 00:30:47
    famous religious UAP Enthusiast of the
  • 00:30:50
    time in Argentina and very very
  • 00:30:53
    influential and apparently he was the
  • 00:30:55
    mentor of Y Mario golio Pope Francis is
  • 00:31:00
    this acknowledged inside the Vatican at
  • 00:31:02
    all Paul that the current pope has been
  • 00:31:05
    very much a close friend and indeed
  • 00:31:07
    mentored by a person who was very
  • 00:31:10
    avowedly a ufologist and who apparently
  • 00:31:13
    also there are other people who are
  • 00:31:16
    well-known Argentine ethologists who
  • 00:31:19
    claimed to receive messages from
  • 00:31:22
    extraterrestrials that could be
  • 00:31:23
    prophetic and one of those prophecies
  • 00:31:26
    told the the current pope Pope Francis
  • 00:31:29
    boglio that he was going to become Pope
  • 00:31:33
    have you ever heard this
  • 00:31:35
    before I heard it from you in a private
  • 00:31:37
    conversation that last part and uh to be
  • 00:31:40
    honest I I haven't heard it otherwise
  • 00:31:42
    but but I will also be very clear I am
  • 00:31:44
    do not have connections in the Vatican
  • 00:31:47
    uh I don't you know don't have kind of
  • 00:31:49
    sources there that or or in Argentina
  • 00:31:51
    that you would have so I'm I'm not
  • 00:31:53
    ruling any of that out I'm just saying
  • 00:31:55
    that I'm not aware of it personally no
  • 00:31:57
    I'm just one thing I do want to
  • 00:31:59
    acknowledge is look I have to be honest
  • 00:32:01
    as a journalist I've given the Catholic
  • 00:32:03
    Church a pretty hard time over the years
  • 00:32:05
    for you know horrible instances of um
  • 00:32:08
    failure to properly investigate sexual
  • 00:32:10
    abuse for example but one of the things
  • 00:32:13
    I do admire is the Catholic Church's
  • 00:32:16
    preparedness to discuss the possibility
  • 00:32:19
    of extraterrestrial intelligence or
  • 00:32:22
    non-human intelligence it's been quite
  • 00:32:24
    Progressive in this regard what does the
  • 00:32:26
    current pope say
  • 00:32:28
    and what have previous popes said about
  • 00:32:31
    the possibility of a non-human
  • 00:32:34
    intelligence uh nothing I know of with
  • 00:32:37
    Pope Francis that he said perhaps in a
  • 00:32:39
    private audience he has but I'm not
  • 00:32:41
    aware of it it is interesting though
  • 00:32:43
    that with Pope St John Paul II uh
  • 00:32:46
    probably the most popular you know pope
  • 00:32:48
    of our times that uh he wants uh was
  • 00:32:52
    speaking at a parish uh receiving
  • 00:32:55
    questions from the audience and uh um a
  • 00:32:58
    young girl asked him Holy Father what
  • 00:33:01
    about the
  • 00:33:02
    aliens and this is so important to me
  • 00:33:05
    that if if he knew that that was
  • 00:33:08
    contrary to the Catholic faith I'm sure
  • 00:33:10
    he would have said because he would have
  • 00:33:11
    had to say to her well you know young
  • 00:33:14
    one that's that's contrary to our faith
  • 00:33:16
    uh or he could have said well we'll have
  • 00:33:18
    to wait and see if science shows us that
  • 00:33:21
    um he could have said a lot of things
  • 00:33:22
    but what he actually said was always
  • 00:33:24
    remember they are God's children too
  • 00:33:28
    and that's uh my talk at at the soul
  • 00:33:30
    Symposium you was took that as its name
  • 00:33:32
    and that's important because some of the
  • 00:33:34
    folks who are claiming that it's all
  • 00:33:35
    demonic who are Catholic um insist that
  • 00:33:38
    the Catholic catechism has passages that
  • 00:33:40
    rule it out and I think it's very clear
  • 00:33:43
    that those passages don't but if there
  • 00:33:45
    was anyone uh who would know what the
  • 00:33:47
    catechism proper interpretation was it
  • 00:33:49
    was John Paul II who commissioned it
  • 00:33:51
    knew it well and if he didn't think if
  • 00:33:54
    he thought that they're God's children
  • 00:33:56
    too and didn't think it was against the
  • 00:33:57
    faith that I'm sure that's not the
  • 00:33:58
    intent of the catechism so Congressman
  • 00:34:01
    burett Tim burett I I know that you've
  • 00:34:04
    met with David grush that your oversight
  • 00:34:07
    committee has heard evidence from David
  • 00:34:09
    grush I think also in private hearings
  • 00:34:12
    and one of the allegations that Former
  • 00:34:14
    Intelligence officer with the nro ngia
  • 00:34:17
    David grush makes is that the Vatican
  • 00:34:21
    was involved during the musolini regime
  • 00:34:24
    uh in assisting the transfer of alleged
  • 00:34:29
    non-human uh technology a craft of some
  • 00:34:33
    kind that was allegedly recovered at
  • 00:34:35
    Magenta in Italy in
  • 00:34:37
    1933 and that that technology was
  • 00:34:40
    transferred on to the to the US
  • 00:34:43
    government secretly at the end of World
  • 00:34:45
    War II what do you think about that
  • 00:34:47
    allegation do you find it plausible that
  • 00:34:49
    the Vatican a religious organization
  • 00:34:52
    would be involved in such a
  • 00:34:55
    transfer I think it's anything's PL POS
  • 00:34:58
    I you know we've had
  • 00:35:00
    multiple uh incidences when the CIA has
  • 00:35:04
    now come forward and said and and it's
  • 00:35:07
    been reported actually that they have a
  • 00:35:10
    a
  • 00:35:11
    Recovery Unit you know what the heck are
  • 00:35:14
    they recovering I think that that says
  • 00:35:16
    more about it I you know the Catholic
  • 00:35:18
    Church there's a lot of mysteries there
  • 00:35:21
    um I'm not I'm not a Catholic um I've
  • 00:35:25
    got a lot of friends that are Catholic
  • 00:35:27
    my best friend is as a matter of fact so
  • 00:35:29
    I I don't I don't doubt any of this I
  • 00:35:32
    think it's very plausible I've I've
  • 00:35:33
    looked into that a little more than I'm
  • 00:35:35
    telling you um and I've talked to people
  • 00:35:38
    that are in the know that actually think
  • 00:35:39
    that is legitimate but again until
  • 00:35:43
    somebody produces the saucer or the body
  • 00:35:47
    U it it doesn't exist and that's you
  • 00:35:50
    know we're going to have to we're going
  • 00:35:52
    to have to get it out there you know and
  • 00:35:53
    everybody loves the Mystique of the
  • 00:35:55
    Catholic church and and the Vatican and
  • 00:35:58
    and all the things that they claim
  • 00:36:00
    people non-catholics like myself claim
  • 00:36:02
    they have so um I'll leave that up to my
  • 00:36:05
    Catholic friend if he thinks it's
  • 00:36:06
    plausible but I I just uh uh I'm I'm a
  • 00:36:10
    little skeptical but I'm not I'm not
  • 00:36:12
    totally in deny that you know I don't
  • 00:36:15
    totally deny
  • 00:36:17
    it and Paul Paul thick pin obviously you
  • 00:36:21
    do have knowledge of um at least
  • 00:36:24
    Catholic theology and history do you
  • 00:36:26
    find it plausible that the Vatican might
  • 00:36:28
    have been involved in assisting the
  • 00:36:30
    United States in the retrieval of an
  • 00:36:32
    alien spacecraft that was recovered from
  • 00:36:35
    magenta Italy in
  • 00:36:37
    1933 I certainly think it's it's
  • 00:36:39
    possible you know the only uh there are
  • 00:36:42
    folks I know have studied it and said
  • 00:36:44
    that the information that was put out
  • 00:36:46
    several decades ago about it that uh I
  • 00:36:49
    don't hear him saying it was hoax but
  • 00:36:51
    just that it wasn't sufficient really to
  • 00:36:53
    be convincing but my conversations you
  • 00:36:56
    know with you um convinced me that that
  • 00:36:58
    Dave grush probably has evidence that
  • 00:37:01
    wasn't part of that and so that uh that
  • 00:37:04
    and he seems to be convinced that it
  • 00:37:07
    happened so all I'm saying is that um I
  • 00:37:10
    think it's possible uh simply for this
  • 00:37:12
    uh think about the situation uh by 1944
  • 00:37:15
    melini has been executed by his own
  • 00:37:17
    people uh the government's Fallen apart
  • 00:37:20
    um things are very unstable you still
  • 00:37:22
    got the Germans hanging in there and
  • 00:37:24
    they were known I'm sure the Vatican
  • 00:37:25
    would have known to to be looking into
  • 00:37:27
    this kind kind of stuff um the Russians
  • 00:37:30
    were doing their own advances um if if I
  • 00:37:33
    were the pope and I'm just speculating
  • 00:37:35
    if I were the pope and I knew that this
  • 00:37:37
    was had happened and was there and that
  • 00:37:39
    there was a chance that such a thing
  • 00:37:41
    could get into the hands of the Russians
  • 00:37:44
    or Germans or even the mafia to sell to
  • 00:37:48
    the highest bidder uh I would I might
  • 00:37:50
    consider conclude that the safest most
  • 00:37:53
    moral thing to do would be
  • 00:37:55
    to find some way help the United States
  • 00:37:58
    get it they would be the one actor that
  • 00:37:59
    I would I would trust the most I think
  • 00:38:02
    that's just my own thinking about it so
  • 00:38:03
    I think it is
  • 00:38:05
    possible well gentlemen I think we'll
  • 00:38:07
    have to leave it there but Paul your
  • 00:38:09
    answer does leave open the Intriguing
  • 00:38:11
    possibility that for 80 90 years the
  • 00:38:16
    Vatican one of the greatest religious
  • 00:38:18
    institutions on the planet May well have
  • 00:38:20
    known about the existence of real
  • 00:38:23
    evidence hard evidence of a non-human
  • 00:38:26
    intelligence engaging with this planet I
  • 00:38:28
    guess time will tell but look I have to
  • 00:38:30
    thank both of you for joining us on
  • 00:38:32
    reality check and I hope you have a
  • 00:38:34
    happy Easter break and um look forward
  • 00:38:37
    to seeing you on the other side thank
  • 00:38:39
    you both
  • 00:38:40
    gentlemen thank you Ross thank you
  • 00:38:43
    Congressman thank you guys pleasure now
  • 00:38:45
    I'm G have to go read my Bible more
  • 00:38:47
    thank you
  • 00:38:50
    Paul so I found that conversation very
  • 00:38:53
    intriguing it really does raise the
  • 00:38:55
    possibility that the Vatican knows a lot
  • 00:38:57
    more more than it's letting on and I can
  • 00:39:00
    only hope that as Congressman Tim berett
  • 00:39:03
    is intimating in a lot of his public
  • 00:39:04
    comments we may soon see more public
  • 00:39:08
    hearings and more Revelations from
  • 00:39:11
    whistleblowers now one of the joys of
  • 00:39:14
    reality check as we get to hear from you
  • 00:39:16
    all and there's been a lot of questions
  • 00:39:18
    coming in from my audience and uh I just
  • 00:39:21
    want to answer some of those questions
  • 00:39:23
    one of the most common questions we get
  • 00:39:25
    from people is this one from a guy who's
  • 00:39:28
    got the Twitter handle empirical piece
  • 00:39:31
    why don't the whistleblowers come out
  • 00:39:33
    with their stories simultaneously this
  • 00:39:35
    would neutralize retaliate reactions by
  • 00:39:38
    the secret Keepers in fact any
  • 00:39:40
    retaliation would expose their deceit
  • 00:39:43
    someone needs to organize this and my
  • 00:39:46
    dear friend empirical peace I assure you
  • 00:39:49
    I have tried um one of the problems we
  • 00:39:52
    have is that the the good people who are
  • 00:39:55
    operating on the inside who are uh I'm
  • 00:39:58
    told working inside this so-called
  • 00:40:00
    Legacy crash retrieval reverse
  • 00:40:02
    engineering program working allegedly on
  • 00:40:05
    non-human technology they are all
  • 00:40:08
    operating under very very tight
  • 00:40:11
    non-disclosure agreements and um
  • 00:40:14
    security clearances and that's how they
  • 00:40:16
    make their living they're good people
  • 00:40:17
    they're Patriots they're people who love
  • 00:40:20
    their country they they don't like the
  • 00:40:22
    idea of sticking their neck out on
  • 00:40:25
    public television or in Congress because
  • 00:40:27
    because in all likelihood it'll get shot
  • 00:40:30
    off and even though there may be safety
  • 00:40:33
    in numbers they think individually so
  • 00:40:37
    they're all terrified of losing their
  • 00:40:39
    security clearance and the best way of
  • 00:40:41
    intimidating people inside this system
  • 00:40:43
    is to remove their security clearance
  • 00:40:45
    and this is why the Chuck Schumer
  • 00:40:48
    Senator Chuck Schumer's legislation was
  • 00:40:50
    so important it was neutralized so
  • 00:40:53
    ruthlessly and effectively by in
  • 00:40:55
    particular congressman Turner Mike
  • 00:40:57
    Turner from Ohio who just didn't want
  • 00:41:00
    that legislation to go through in its
  • 00:41:02
    current form it would have provided
  • 00:41:05
    those whistleblowers with the
  • 00:41:06
    protections they needed it would have
  • 00:41:08
    given them an exemption from the
  • 00:41:10
    non-disclosure agreements and from those
  • 00:41:12
    security clearances that forbid forbade
  • 00:41:15
    them from talking about those
  • 00:41:17
    compartmentalized
  • 00:41:18
    Secrets though I do think there's a
  • 00:41:20
    pretty good reason why even though there
  • 00:41:22
    might be safety in numbers in many
  • 00:41:24
    instances for whistleblowers in this
  • 00:41:26
    particular instance this is a secret
  • 00:41:29
    that's being so well-kept and so the
  • 00:41:32
    bullying and intimidation of these
  • 00:41:34
    Witnesses is so Fierce it's not an easy
  • 00:41:36
    thing for them to step up and be
  • 00:41:39
    countered um let's just have a look at
  • 00:41:41
    another couple of
  • 00:41:44
    questions oh here's one who would you
  • 00:41:46
    like to see you replace sha Kirkpatrick
  • 00:41:48
    if you could pick someone who would it
  • 00:41:50
    be I recently had the pleasure of
  • 00:41:52
    meeting Colonel Carl Nell who's a former
  • 00:41:55
    Chief of the UAP task
  • 00:41:58
    force magnificent Warrior intellect I've
  • 00:42:01
    I've never before met somebody inside
  • 00:42:04
    the military who's quite so bright and
  • 00:42:07
    sharp and well attuned to the UAP issue
  • 00:42:10
    so if there was one person I'd put and
  • 00:42:13
    say he should be there it would be
  • 00:42:14
    Colonel Carell and frankly for that very
  • 00:42:17
    reason I don't think it's going to
  • 00:42:19
    happen one more
  • 00:42:21
    question it seems as as if there is
  • 00:42:24
    pretty solid Insider certainty that
  • 00:42:26
    there is refutable evidence that the US
  • 00:42:28
    government is indeed being dubious on
  • 00:42:30
    this issue why then can you not please
  • 00:42:34
    provide this credible evidence to the
  • 00:42:36
    public this issue will not press forward
  • 00:42:38
    when there is a possible debunk and I
  • 00:42:40
    completely agree with you I think the
  • 00:42:43
    whole UAP social media Community is just
  • 00:42:46
    going to have to be a lot more patient
  • 00:42:48
    truth will out whistleblowers will come
  • 00:42:53
    forward but they need time I'm in
  • 00:42:56
    conversation with some with them at the
  • 00:42:57
    moment where they're wrestling with that
  • 00:42:59
    decision a number of them are going
  • 00:43:01
    through the doser process applying for
  • 00:43:04
    the defense office pre-publication
  • 00:43:05
    Security review approval system like
  • 00:43:08
    David grush did they're hoping that they
  • 00:43:11
    can get clearance to speak before a
  • 00:43:13
    public hearing of Congress it's a hell
  • 00:43:15
    of a lot safer for them than it is for
  • 00:43:17
    them to appear on National Television in
  • 00:43:20
    obvious breach of their security
  • 00:43:21
    clearance and their NDA and look I you
  • 00:43:25
    know I was sad to hear uh from Tim buett
  • 00:43:28
    that he's also had threats from people
  • 00:43:30
    who are impatient with the pace of
  • 00:43:33
    change and the pace of transparency and
  • 00:43:36
    accountability I've had the same problem
  • 00:43:39
    I've had people outright threaten me in
  • 00:43:41
    really appalling ways because they're
  • 00:43:43
    just frustrated and angry that things
  • 00:43:45
    aren't going as fast as they would like
  • 00:43:48
    I've had a lot of people say to me I
  • 00:43:49
    should just say I know where this large
  • 00:43:52
    UAP craft is located and I've explained
  • 00:43:55
    very strong reasons exist for why that
  • 00:43:58
    particularly National Security sensitive
  • 00:44:00
    installation shouldn't be revealed
  • 00:44:02
    ultimately we're all part of a very good
  • 00:44:05
    alliance the five eyes Alliance that has
  • 00:44:07
    kept world peace and security since the
  • 00:44:09
    end of World War II the Yakuza agreement
  • 00:44:12
    the five eyes an alliance between my
  • 00:44:14
    country Australia and the United States
  • 00:44:16
    England Canada New Zealand it's really
  • 00:44:20
    important and for the good reason we
  • 00:44:22
    don't want to jeopardize vital National
  • 00:44:24
    Security concerns so there has to be a
  • 00:44:27
    balance and even though people would
  • 00:44:29
    love me as a journalist just to come out
  • 00:44:30
    and spew everything I know about the
  • 00:44:32
    subject I actually do think there are
  • 00:44:35
    very good reasons to be cautious but I
  • 00:44:37
    do think there's reason for optimism and
  • 00:44:40
    I think we can only wait and see what
  • 00:44:42
    comes out of Congress and other quarters
  • 00:44:45
    more on that soon thank you very much
  • 00:44:48
    for watching reality check I hope you
  • 00:44:49
    enjoyed that very stimulating
  • 00:44:51
    conversation between representative Tim
  • 00:44:53
    burett and Professor retired all thi pin
  • 00:44:57
    see you
  • 00:44:59
    [Music]
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    again thanks for watching go to join
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