The Future of Media in an Age of Disruption

00:50:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgt7SApFY3E

概要

TLDRThe discussion features Eric Sherberg, who explores the future of media amidst disruption, highlighting the evolution of journalism from the 70s to today. Key points include the fragmentation of news sources, the impact of technology on information delivery, and the changing business models that prioritize sensationalism over accuracy. Sherberg emphasizes the importance of trust in journalism, noting the decline in public confidence and the rise of confirmation bias. The upcoming course at the Graham School will delve deeper into these issues, featuring expert speakers and discussions on the role of media in democracy and the necessity for critical thinking in news consumption.

収穫

  • 📅 Upcoming course on media disruption at Graham School
  • 📰 Media landscape has evolved from few sources to many
  • 📉 Trust in journalism is declining
  • 💡 Critical thinking is essential for news consumption
  • 📊 Business models now favor sensationalism
  • 🌍 Nonprofit media models are emerging as alternatives
  • 🤖 Technology has changed how news is delivered
  • 🔍 Understanding biases is crucial for informed decisions
  • 👥 Expert speakers will provide diverse insights
  • 📈 Future of media remains uncertain but hopeful

タイムライン

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    The discussion begins with an introduction to Eric Sherberg and the topic of media's future in an age of disruption, highlighting the importance of the upcoming course at the Graham School.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Eric provides a snapshot of his course, emphasizing the role of the press as the fourth estate and the challenges it faces due to technological disruption and changing audience expectations.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    The evolution of media from the 70s and 80s to today is discussed, focusing on the fragmentation of news delivery and the shift from a few major outlets to a multitude of sources, including social media.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Eric explains how the business model of media has changed, moving from a broad appeal advertising model to one that allows for polarized and partisan news, impacting the reliability of information.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    The conversation delves into the impact of technology on news delivery, highlighting the ease of communication and the rise of programmatic advertising, which has altered the relationship between advertisers and publishers.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    The discussion touches on the changing nature of trust in media, with audiences seeking confirmation bias rather than objective reporting, leading to a polarized media landscape.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    Eric discusses the emergence of nonprofit media models and their potential to provide balanced reporting, while also addressing the challenges of sustaining these models in a competitive environment.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    The role of policy and regulation in shaping the media landscape is examined, including the implications of the repeal of the fairness doctrine and the impact of Section 230 on social media platforms.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:50:45

    The conversation concludes with reflections on the future of media, emphasizing the need for critical thinking among consumers and the potential for truth to prevail over misinformation in the long run.

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ビデオQ&A

  • What is the focus of Eric Sherberg's course?

    The course focuses on the future of media in an age of disruption, examining how media has evolved and the challenges it faces.

  • How has the media landscape changed since the 70s and 80s?

    Media has become fragmented with the rise of digital platforms, leading to a diverse range of news sources and a shift in business models.

  • What role does trust play in journalism today?

    Trust in journalism has eroded, with many people seeking news that aligns with their beliefs, leading to confirmation bias.

  • How do business models affect media content?

    The shift from advertising-based models to programmatic advertising has led to more polarized and sensationalized news to attract eyeballs.

  • What are some examples of nonprofit media models?

    Examples include Chicago Public Media, the Texas Tribune, and ProPublica, which focus on reliable and accountable journalism.

  • What is the significance of the course's expert speakers?

    The course features industry experts who provide insights into various aspects of media, enhancing the learning experience.

  • How does technology impact news consumption?

    Technology has lowered barriers to entry for news delivery, resulting in a flood of information that requires critical thinking to navigate.

  • What is the future of media according to Eric Sherberg?

    The future of media is uncertain, but there is hope that people will gravitate towards truth and reliable information.

  • What challenges does journalism face today?

    Journalism faces challenges such as misinformation, declining trust, and the need to adapt to new business models.

  • How can individuals improve their news consumption?

    Individuals can improve their news consumption by being critical of sources, seeking reliable information, and understanding their own biases.

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  • 00:00:02
    Welcome All We Are thrilled to have you
  • 00:00:05
    here for our discussion with Eric
  • 00:00:06
    sherberg on the future of media in an
  • 00:00:10
    age of disruption this is part of our
  • 00:00:13
    conversations at Graham series and in
  • 00:00:15
    this case we are previewing a course
  • 00:00:18
    that is going to be in the spring that
  • 00:00:20
    you can go much deeper into if you're
  • 00:00:22
    excited by the content of this
  • 00:00:24
    conversation my name is Seth Green and
  • 00:00:27
    on a morning like this one I'm
  • 00:00:29
    especially GR to say that I'm the dean
  • 00:00:31
    of the Graham school here at the
  • 00:00:33
    University of Chicago and I'll welcome
  • 00:00:35
    you to our gorgeous campus on this winry
  • 00:00:38
    day where we are finally coming out of
  • 00:00:40
    the snow in Chicago and I'll just
  • 00:00:43
    mention that our spring course
  • 00:00:45
    registration which includes Eric's
  • 00:00:48
    course is now open and we are very
  • 00:00:50
    excited for you to join us and in the
  • 00:00:54
    chat you'll see a registration link
  • 00:00:56
    momentarily we also have many other
  • 00:00:59
    upcoming events in the next week on the
  • 00:01:02
    Arts on designing a portfolio of
  • 00:01:04
    wellness and our first Friday lecture
  • 00:01:07
    going deeper into n and nihilism but the
  • 00:01:11
    reason you are here today is for a
  • 00:01:12
    conversation with Eric he is the former
  • 00:01:15
    editor and Chief and CEO of Inc and Fast
  • 00:01:18
    Company he is now a leader of the
  • 00:01:20
    alliance for Trust in Media and most
  • 00:01:22
    importantly to us he is a distinguished
  • 00:01:25
    instructor of Journalism here at the
  • 00:01:28
    Graham school where he will be
  • 00:01:30
    continuing to teach a class on this
  • 00:01:32
    subject of media and in this case is
  • 00:01:35
    going deep into media in an age of
  • 00:01:38
    disruption so Eric to set the table for
  • 00:01:40
    the rest of our conversation can you
  • 00:01:43
    just give us a little bit of a snapshot
  • 00:01:47
    of this course and why you're deciding
  • 00:01:49
    to teach it and then we'll dig into some
  • 00:01:52
    of the content more
  • 00:01:53
    directly sure Seth thank you for that
  • 00:01:56
    that introduction and uh this is by the
  • 00:01:59
    way the second course I've taught at the
  • 00:02:00
    Graham School the first was a wonderful
  • 00:02:02
    course about media leading up to the 24
  • 00:02:06
    election the Press likes to think of
  • 00:02:08
    itself as the fourth estate of
  • 00:02:10
    government and while that may be a
  • 00:02:13
    little
  • 00:02:14
    self-aggrandizing it is actually a
  • 00:02:17
    function that the Press plays in holding
  • 00:02:19
    power to account and giving voters the
  • 00:02:22
    information they need to make decisions
  • 00:02:24
    hold the government accountable it is no
  • 00:02:27
    mistake that the Press is the only
  • 00:02:30
    industry that was singled out in the US
  • 00:02:32
    Constitution for protection from
  • 00:02:34
    government
  • 00:02:35
    interference so it's no secret that this
  • 00:02:40
    industry is tremendously disrupted by
  • 00:02:43
    technology by changing attitudes in
  • 00:02:46
    government towards a free press and by
  • 00:02:49
    actions within the Press itself and
  • 00:02:51
    shifting audience requirements if you
  • 00:02:54
    are going to understand how this hugely
  • 00:02:58
    important institution works
  • 00:03:00
    and where it's going to end up which is
  • 00:03:02
    certainly not where it has been um
  • 00:03:05
    that's what this course is about so I
  • 00:03:07
    look forward to examining this together
  • 00:03:09
    with the students and with a roster of
  • 00:03:11
    speakers who are all experts on
  • 00:03:13
    different aspects of the the fourth
  • 00:03:17
    estate well so what I'd love to do is
  • 00:03:19
    dig in at a high level to the content
  • 00:03:22
    Eric and really think about how media is
  • 00:03:25
    changing why and where it's going and so
  • 00:03:28
    let's start with that how it's changing
  • 00:03:31
    if you had to sum up how media has
  • 00:03:34
    evolved uh kind of from let's say the
  • 00:03:37
    70s 80s you know all the way to today
  • 00:03:41
    just give us a picture of that change
  • 00:03:44
    from you know X to Y and then we'll dig
  • 00:03:47
    into the trend lines the root causes
  • 00:03:50
    like what's happening to move us from
  • 00:03:52
    one place to the other but I'm curious
  • 00:03:54
    just to start at the high level like how
  • 00:03:56
    is Media different today than when you
  • 00:03:58
    entered journalism
  • 00:04:01
    um well it is almost unrecognizable from
  • 00:04:04
    when I entered journalism there are um
  • 00:04:07
    come the thing that is probably most
  • 00:04:09
    obvious is the fragmentation of delivery
  • 00:04:12
    of what people regard as news services
  • 00:04:16
    so you know uh there were within living
  • 00:04:19
    memory uh a period when there were only
  • 00:04:22
    three broadcast networks and a couple
  • 00:04:24
    cable news stations um and some and you
  • 00:04:28
    know and some radio stations all of
  • 00:04:29
    whose licenses were controlled by you
  • 00:04:31
    know the government's control of radio
  • 00:04:34
    spectrum um and then you got your news
  • 00:04:36
    either from those sources or from your
  • 00:04:37
    Metropolitan newspaper that has exploded
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    into a kind of Cambrian evolution of
  • 00:04:44
    podcasters and social media news
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    delivery and of course an explosion also
  • 00:04:49
    of cable TV and all of this means that
  • 00:04:54
    where we used to have a kind of Highly
  • 00:04:57
    filtered um stream of of news we now
  • 00:05:01
    have it coming to us from all sides from
  • 00:05:04
    um the Legacy Media like the New York
  • 00:05:07
    Times and NBC but also from everyone's
  • 00:05:10
    crazy uncle on Facebook and and x and
  • 00:05:15
    podcast and Tik Tock and so forth um the
  • 00:05:20
    business model has also tremendously
  • 00:05:22
    changed and that also changes the way
  • 00:05:25
    the news is delivered to you and the
  • 00:05:27
    kind of news that you get um
  • 00:05:30
    there was um when the advertising model
  • 00:05:33
    ruled it was important for big media
  • 00:05:37
    organizations like the kind that I
  • 00:05:39
    worked for to appeal to a broad range of
  • 00:05:43
    um of people consumers and that meant
  • 00:05:47
    that the news could not be polarized
  • 00:05:50
    that there was a kind of narrow window
  • 00:05:51
    of what was considered
  • 00:05:54
    newsworthy now you can make a very good
  • 00:05:58
    living with a highly polarized highly
  • 00:06:01
    partisan Newsfeed um there's no there's
  • 00:06:04
    no accountability for whether this the
  • 00:06:07
    news you deliver is true or not there's
  • 00:06:09
    no penalty to pay for making stuff up
  • 00:06:11
    and so there's this kind of constant
  • 00:06:13
    battle between um news organizations
  • 00:06:17
    that have standards and those that don't
  • 00:06:20
    um and I think if
  • 00:06:23
    you I think it's very important to be
  • 00:06:25
    able to
  • 00:06:27
    understand the the different um
  • 00:06:30
    incentives that drive the kind of news
  • 00:06:32
    that's delivered to you the different
  • 00:06:34
    platforms that are now available to you
  • 00:06:36
    and also to acquire a certain amount of
  • 00:06:39
    skill at distinguishing what's reliable
  • 00:06:43
    and what isn't um based on not only on
  • 00:06:46
    the performance of the newss but also
  • 00:06:48
    understanding how you consume news and
  • 00:06:50
    what your goals are and what the mental
  • 00:06:53
    shortcuts you might be using to
  • 00:06:55
    determine what's true I want to dig in a
  • 00:06:58
    bit to how this trans information
  • 00:07:00
    happens because one part of it I think
  • 00:07:02
    is probably very visible above the
  • 00:07:04
    surface which is technology has changed
  • 00:07:07
    obviously it's much less expensive to
  • 00:07:09
    communicate an idea through platforms uh
  • 00:07:12
    in 2025 than it was in 1980 and so you
  • 00:07:16
    know that at least accounts for part of
  • 00:07:18
    the proliferation is that you have many
  • 00:07:21
    more medium and Technology platforms
  • 00:07:25
    that allow you to do this but another
  • 00:07:28
    piece of it which maybe is less visible
  • 00:07:30
    to people that are not in the industry
  • 00:07:31
    Eric is the business model change and
  • 00:07:33
    they're obviously related but they also
  • 00:07:36
    have their own ways of working
  • 00:07:39
    themselves out in terms of their impacts
  • 00:07:41
    on journalism can you talk a bit about
  • 00:07:44
    the evolution of that business model you
  • 00:07:46
    already referenced from an ad world
  • 00:07:48
    where you're trying to get broad appeal
  • 00:07:50
    now to fragmentation meaning that maybe
  • 00:07:53
    your best bet is to get a niche and
  • 00:07:55
    really go deep with them talk about that
  • 00:07:58
    Evolution and talk a bit more about what
  • 00:08:01
    it means because I think we don't always
  • 00:08:03
    appreciate how many of the things we see
  • 00:08:06
    in society like polarization may be
  • 00:08:09
    partly reflective of this business
  • 00:08:12
    environment and how it's reshaping the
  • 00:08:14
    way that we consume
  • 00:08:16
    information um that is a really good
  • 00:08:18
    point ZF um just to talk about the the
  • 00:08:21
    sort of lowering of the barriers to
  • 00:08:24
    entry here I mean all of us now carry
  • 00:08:27
    effectively a television studio in
  • 00:08:29
    pocket or our purse and that just adds
  • 00:08:32
    to the um the flood
  • 00:08:36
    of sometimes contradictory information
  • 00:08:38
    about what's really true but to focus on
  • 00:08:40
    your question about the business model
  • 00:08:43
    when I started uh the the advertising
  • 00:08:47
    model was an exchange between um an
  • 00:08:51
    institution that provided a publisher
  • 00:08:54
    that provided news and another
  • 00:08:57
    institution that provided advertising on
  • 00:08:59
    behalf of Brands I wanted to advertise
  • 00:09:02
    the um what was
  • 00:09:04
    important uh at say the New York Times
  • 00:09:08
    or the places I worked at time Inc like
  • 00:09:11
    Fortune Magazine and money and Inc and
  • 00:09:13
    Fast Company was what the institutional
  • 00:09:16
    brand of the publisher meant so if you
  • 00:09:18
    were an Advertiser who to go back to uh
  • 00:09:22
    Inc they wanted to reach entrepreneurs
  • 00:09:25
    you found a publication that spoke to
  • 00:09:28
    them and you advertised in those pages
  • 00:09:30
    and it was uh an ex an exchange
  • 00:09:34
    specifically between a brand that wanted
  • 00:09:38
    to advertise and a brand that delivered
  • 00:09:41
    news that was exploded by the creation
  • 00:09:44
    of something called programmatic
  • 00:09:46
    advertising so just to give you a a kind
  • 00:09:49
    of case study example let's say you're
  • 00:09:51
    scrolling through Tik Tok and you come
  • 00:09:54
    across an ad for an Apple
  • 00:09:57
    Watch in the old days if that ad
  • 00:10:00
    appeared un fortune or on Inc you would
  • 00:10:03
    rightly assume that apple had made a
  • 00:10:06
    deal with the publisher to run an ad to
  • 00:10:08
    reach its
  • 00:10:10
    audience with programmatic advertising
  • 00:10:12
    what really happened was that when you
  • 00:10:14
    scrolled up and got to an ad space on
  • 00:10:18
    Tik Tok a signal went out to a supply
  • 00:10:22
    side digital provider saying that
  • 00:10:25
    someone is about to look at an ad space
  • 00:10:28
    what am I bid for that person's
  • 00:10:29
    attention and because it's Tik Tok it
  • 00:10:31
    has a lot of data about who that person
  • 00:10:34
    is so let's say um you know a grad
  • 00:10:37
    student at the University of Chicago is
  • 00:10:38
    about to look at an ad what am I bid for
  • 00:10:41
    that space in our example Apple won the
  • 00:10:44
    bidding and so an ad appears on the Tik
  • 00:10:47
    Tock um advertising space that happens
  • 00:10:50
    in a fraction of a second so you're not
  • 00:10:52
    even aware of
  • 00:10:53
    it that means a couple of things for the
  • 00:10:56
    delivery of news in this information
  • 00:10:58
    environment for one thing it means that
  • 00:11:01
    advertising I mean uh publishing Brands
  • 00:11:04
    don't matter so much anymore what
  • 00:11:06
    matters is who is coming up to that
  • 00:11:10
    vacant ad space so an Advertiser using
  • 00:11:15
    this adtech technology can follow you
  • 00:11:17
    around the internet or social media
  • 00:11:19
    anywhere it doesn't matter if you're on
  • 00:11:22
    Tik Tok or on Inc or on the New York
  • 00:11:25
    Times or on an Isis recruiting site all
  • 00:11:29
    advertising Machinery now cares about is
  • 00:11:32
    who you are and its ability to reach you
  • 00:11:35
    that obviously explodes the business
  • 00:11:37
    model of an institution that tried to
  • 00:11:39
    build its reputation as being the
  • 00:11:41
    spokesperson for a particular kind of of
  • 00:11:45
    reader or being the spokesperson for
  • 00:11:48
    people in a particular region like your
  • 00:11:51
    Metropolitan newspaper so if um you're a
  • 00:11:56
    car um dealership and you want to a Iz
  • 00:11:59
    the people in De Moine you would in the
  • 00:12:02
    past have wanted to go to the De Moine
  • 00:12:04
    register now um all you need to do is
  • 00:12:06
    find people from De Moine wherever they
  • 00:12:08
    happen to be on the web and you can
  • 00:12:10
    serve them up and
  • 00:12:11
    AD another thing that happens is that
  • 00:12:14
    the reputation of the publisher no
  • 00:12:17
    longer matters so it does not matter to
  • 00:12:20
    Apple Apple in fact probably has no way
  • 00:12:24
    of knowing where its ads show up in real
  • 00:12:27
    time so it could be
  • 00:12:30
    um a site that Apple would be appalled
  • 00:12:34
    to know that its ads were appearing next
  • 00:12:36
    to that content in fact that happens all
  • 00:12:39
    the time and brands are continually
  • 00:12:41
    embarrassed by where their ads show up
  • 00:12:43
    but it does mean that you don't have to
  • 00:12:45
    be a respectable publisher to be able to
  • 00:12:47
    make quite a bit of money in today's
  • 00:12:48
    information environment well so just
  • 00:12:51
    think about that transformation because
  • 00:12:53
    you go from a place where that brand
  • 00:12:55
    really matters one of your goals in
  • 00:12:57
    media is build this credibility
  • 00:12:59
    have trust show people that you can be
  • 00:13:01
    balanced have companies feel like okay I
  • 00:13:04
    can align myself with this brand to a
  • 00:13:06
    world where brand is getting more and
  • 00:13:09
    more meaningless all you're aiming
  • 00:13:11
    toward is eyeballs on the page because
  • 00:13:13
    that gets the ad even when it does show
  • 00:13:15
    up embarrassingly people know Apple
  • 00:13:18
    didn't really intend this so it doesn't
  • 00:13:20
    have much impact on their brand because
  • 00:13:22
    even though it might be embarrassing if
  • 00:13:24
    it were strategic it's not and we all
  • 00:13:27
    know it now and so it ends up having
  • 00:13:29
    very little impact even though we might
  • 00:13:31
    believe that it should right so that's
  • 00:13:33
    the world we operate in and then we
  • 00:13:35
    think about well then what is media
  • 00:13:38
    going to be rewarded for and to the
  • 00:13:41
    obvious Point here it's eyeballs that
  • 00:13:43
    can be then consumed by that ad space
  • 00:13:46
    and so I know even at the most respected
  • 00:13:48
    newspapers I have friends who write for
  • 00:13:51
    them and they tell me now they get back
  • 00:13:53
    on their writing they get back at the
  • 00:13:56
    end of the month information on how many
  • 00:13:58
    eyeballs their different stories
  • 00:14:00
    collected and they're encouraged to get
  • 00:14:03
    more eyeballs and they know that if they
  • 00:14:05
    want to get more eyeballs they have to
  • 00:14:06
    say things that are more Sensational
  • 00:14:08
    they have to write about subjects that
  • 00:14:10
    are more polarizing because that's the
  • 00:14:12
    media environment in which people are
  • 00:14:15
    now competing right and so it totally
  • 00:14:18
    changes the whole incentive structure of
  • 00:14:21
    media and I mean I want to get into this
  • 00:14:23
    because it's coming up in the chat a lot
  • 00:14:25
    it's even changing the Legacy Publishers
  • 00:14:28
    and youve looked at some of this
  • 00:14:30
    research over time and I thought the
  • 00:14:31
    economist had a really interesting piece
  • 00:14:33
    about a year ago where they even looked
  • 00:14:35
    at for example the New York Times and
  • 00:14:38
    how in their study the New York Times
  • 00:14:40
    had always been pretty careful when they
  • 00:14:42
    use certain descriptors that those
  • 00:14:44
    descriptors were generally without a
  • 00:14:47
    politics to them and the last decade had
  • 00:14:50
    become much more likely to use
  • 00:14:52
    descriptors that align with a particular
  • 00:14:54
    party for example when they described
  • 00:14:57
    immigrants they would use undoc
  • 00:14:59
    documented versus illegal uh because
  • 00:15:01
    that was a word that was appropriate and
  • 00:15:04
    their readers might react less and it
  • 00:15:06
    was a world in which it's a different
  • 00:15:08
    subject so could you just talk about how
  • 00:15:10
    that is changing media including even
  • 00:15:12
    our Legacy Brands and how your research
  • 00:15:16
    which I have seen in the past is showing
  • 00:15:18
    now that media has moved away from the
  • 00:15:21
    center in some ways in in both
  • 00:15:23
    directions that's right um people are
  • 00:15:26
    now searching out news platforms where
  • 00:15:29
    they find agreement so confirmation bias
  • 00:15:33
    has replaced trust I suppose or it's
  • 00:15:37
    become perhaps in many people's minds
  • 00:15:39
    synonymous with trust when it comes to
  • 00:15:42
    the media platforms that they that they
  • 00:15:45
    um
  • 00:15:46
    consume some of the data that that I
  • 00:15:49
    have found is that if you if you measure
  • 00:15:54
    the extreme language of a particular
  • 00:15:57
    politician
  • 00:15:59
    even in the New York Times you will find
  • 00:16:01
    that that politician gets far more
  • 00:16:04
    coverage than the moderates so there is
  • 00:16:07
    not just in the uh in in the choice of
  • 00:16:10
    words by the writers or the columnists
  • 00:16:13
    um at an institution like the times but
  • 00:16:16
    who they decide to cover who they give
  • 00:16:18
    the most air time to is also driven by
  • 00:16:21
    the same forces that are polarizing us
  • 00:16:24
    politically um the idea that you have
  • 00:16:28
    you have have to compete for eyeballs is
  • 00:16:32
    uh is a pressure that has kind of always
  • 00:16:36
    been there but it is totally intensified
  • 00:16:39
    by digital delivery mechanisms which can
  • 00:16:43
    count eyeballs you know to the to the
  • 00:16:46
    fraction to to the unit rather than say
  • 00:16:49
    you know a page in a magazine or a or a
  • 00:16:52
    page or a 30 second spot on television
  • 00:16:54
    where it wasn't necessarily clear who
  • 00:16:57
    was watching but now those eyeballs can
  • 00:16:59
    be identified to actually the possessor
  • 00:17:02
    of the eyeballs and so that the pressure
  • 00:17:04
    to compete for them is just
  • 00:17:08
    intense it requires as a result just a
  • 00:17:11
    kind of rededication to public service
  • 00:17:15
    on the part of journalists that is hard
  • 00:17:18
    to um well that requires sort of a
  • 00:17:22
    different incentive structure and as a
  • 00:17:24
    result and I think this is maybe where
  • 00:17:26
    you're going say there a whole bunch of
  • 00:17:27
    other business models
  • 00:17:29
    have Arisen so there are um there's been
  • 00:17:32
    a flowering of local news sites that are
  • 00:17:35
    not for profit that are driven by um
  • 00:17:39
    donations subscriptions um Often by uh
  • 00:17:43
    wealthy individuals in that Community or
  • 00:17:45
    even on the national scene you know Jeff
  • 00:17:48
    Bezos as the owner of the Washington
  • 00:17:50
    Post is an obvious example but there are
  • 00:17:53
    many others Mark benof as the owner of
  • 00:17:56
    Time Magazine and so on so
  • 00:17:59
    the media industry is in this period of
  • 00:18:02
    searching for what can sustain it and
  • 00:18:06
    how it can how it can fulfill the
  • 00:18:08
    mission that it has traditionally had of
  • 00:18:10
    being the fourth
  • 00:18:12
    estate so you're going to explore all of
  • 00:18:14
    this in your course Eric and I just want
  • 00:18:16
    to give a little bit more detail about
  • 00:18:18
    that course because I think this is such
  • 00:18:20
    a fascinating topic and even though you
  • 00:18:22
    are an incredible guide and will be
  • 00:18:24
    leading the course you are not going to
  • 00:18:27
    be the loan expert bringing insights you
  • 00:18:29
    are interviewing quite a number of
  • 00:18:32
    extraordinary people from really across
  • 00:18:35
    the different media form so I know you
  • 00:18:38
    have the former editor-in-chief of
  • 00:18:39
    Glamour magazine you have academic
  • 00:18:42
    leaders you even have some of the people
  • 00:18:45
    that are now influencers who are part of
  • 00:18:47
    that social media that is dominant for
  • 00:18:50
    the people in their 20s in terms of
  • 00:18:52
    where they consume news and then you
  • 00:18:54
    have people that are looking at all of
  • 00:18:56
    these trends like the current president
  • 00:18:58
    of the Research Center can you just talk
  • 00:19:00
    a little bit about the course uh and how
  • 00:19:03
    you're bringing in all of these industry
  • 00:19:06
    experts and thought leaders around this
  • 00:19:09
    topic to really deepen our understanding
  • 00:19:11
    of how media is acting sure um I've
  • 00:19:16
    broken the course into um classes that I
  • 00:19:21
    think cover some of the most important
  • 00:19:23
    trends for people to know about so the
  • 00:19:25
    first the first class is an overview
  • 00:19:27
    about how we got where we are um in the
  • 00:19:31
    in the media industry how it is
  • 00:19:33
    different and for that um I'm looking at
  • 00:19:37
    um speakers like Steven Adler who is the
  • 00:19:41
    head of Reuters and is now at the
  • 00:19:42
    Columbia journalism School who's
  • 00:19:44
    obviously Ed a multiple Award winner
  • 00:19:46
    head of the reporters committee for the
  • 00:19:48
    freedom of the press someone who has an
  • 00:19:50
    extraordinary overview of the of the
  • 00:19:53
    media industry and its future um the
  • 00:19:56
    president of Pew research will then
  • 00:19:59
    follow up in the next week's class to
  • 00:20:01
    tell us actually where people are
  • 00:20:03
    getting their news and what that means
  • 00:20:05
    for our
  • 00:20:07
    future another aspect that is very
  • 00:20:10
    important uh for our democracy and for
  • 00:20:13
    understanding media is what's happened
  • 00:20:15
    to local
  • 00:20:16
    news that has been perhaps the hardest
  • 00:20:19
    hit those smaller small City and smaller
  • 00:20:24
    Community um news organizations are
  • 00:20:27
    reeling we news probably 25 News
  • 00:20:30
    institutions per week and there are
  • 00:20:34
    now um deserts news deserts Across
  • 00:20:39
    America where there is no local news at
  • 00:20:41
    all and people either default to social
  • 00:20:43
    media or to highly polarized National um
  • 00:20:48
    stations and so there the leader of the
  • 00:20:50
    local news initiative at the medil
  • 00:20:52
    school um McKenzie Warren will be our
  • 00:20:55
    speaker I think another important thing
  • 00:20:58
    is is to is to talk about what we are
  • 00:21:02
    all doing when we consume news I mean
  • 00:21:06
    what is it that we're looking for what
  • 00:21:07
    are the um mental shortcuts that we may
  • 00:21:12
    be using how are we determining what to
  • 00:21:15
    believe where to place our trust and are
  • 00:21:17
    we doing a good job of that um I think
  • 00:21:20
    it's a a mistake that many people make
  • 00:21:24
    especially people who get a lot of their
  • 00:21:26
    news from social media to think that
  • 00:21:28
    truthful news will find you it will show
  • 00:21:30
    up in your news feed actually that's not
  • 00:21:33
    the way algorithms work on social media
  • 00:21:36
    and the role of being an informed
  • 00:21:39
    consumer now is a is a bit of an effort
  • 00:21:43
    we'll follow up then with with talk
  • 00:21:45
    about the business models and there we
  • 00:21:46
    have the CEO of Time Magazine Jess sibl
  • 00:21:49
    uh who will talk about how U an
  • 00:21:52
    organization like time that is still
  • 00:21:55
    highly influential you can see the the
  • 00:21:58
    fact the the news ripples that come out
  • 00:22:01
    from who's on the cover of Time Magazine
  • 00:22:03
    most recently um uh Elon Musk and um how
  • 00:22:08
    that institution is surviving um and
  • 00:22:11
    then we'll meet some influencers so
  • 00:22:13
    people that if you're of my generation
  • 00:22:15
    you may have never heard of but who have
  • 00:22:18
    subscriptions that are multiple times
  • 00:22:21
    the um the size of the circulation of
  • 00:22:25
    the most respected institutions in the
  • 00:22:27
    mainstream press
  • 00:22:29
    um I don't think we can get through uh a
  • 00:22:32
    class like this without also talking
  • 00:22:34
    about the effect of artificial
  • 00:22:35
    intelligence and there we have the head
  • 00:22:37
    of Partnerships for one of the leading
  • 00:22:40
    artificial intelligence foundational
  • 00:22:42
    models which is perplexity Jessica Chan
  • 00:22:46
    and then we'll wind up with a panel um
  • 00:22:49
    we'll have uh someone a representative
  • 00:22:52
    from traditional media Cindy Levy the
  • 00:22:54
    former editor-in Chief of Glamour uh Tom
  • 00:22:57
    Rosensteel the University of Maryland
  • 00:22:59
    Professor about whose whose sole study
  • 00:23:03
    is um the future of media and then R
  • 00:23:06
    Richard gringras of Google Google has
  • 00:23:09
    done so much both to um destroy the
  • 00:23:14
    traditional business model but also has
  • 00:23:16
    been charged by his company to help
  • 00:23:19
    rebuild and is funding an awful lot of
  • 00:23:21
    these new Innovations in the media
  • 00:23:23
    industry that everyone should know about
  • 00:23:25
    so that's that's a breakdown of the
  • 00:23:27
    course um
  • 00:23:28
    and um the the speakers uh are I I agree
  • 00:23:33
    with you they're they're tremendously
  • 00:23:35
    influential people within their industry
  • 00:23:38
    and they could not be more
  • 00:23:39
    knowledgeable I have to say I'm so proud
  • 00:23:43
    to have this course at the Graham school
  • 00:23:44
    I think the topic you're investigating
  • 00:23:47
    is one of the most important for anyone
  • 00:23:49
    that cares about learning and democracy
  • 00:23:51
    and the issues that we care about here
  • 00:23:53
    at the Graham school I also think the
  • 00:23:56
    way you're investigating it really
  • 00:23:57
    looking at at all of the different
  • 00:23:59
    perspectives including really engaging
  • 00:24:02
    with the world that is becoming dominant
  • 00:24:04
    the influencers and these other factors
  • 00:24:06
    right instead of just boning we're going
  • 00:24:08
    to talk with them we're going to look at
  • 00:24:10
    the possibilities I mean I think the
  • 00:24:11
    reality is we're not going back so the
  • 00:24:14
    question becomes what are the
  • 00:24:16
    possibilities out there and that's where
  • 00:24:18
    your engagement with these models like a
  • 00:24:19
    nonprofit media and thinking about you
  • 00:24:22
    know what is the role of media and what
  • 00:24:24
    should be the business model I mean
  • 00:24:26
    these strike me as some of the most
  • 00:24:28
    important questions of our time in that
  • 00:24:30
    information is fundamental to the
  • 00:24:32
    Democratic experience and to citizenship
  • 00:24:35
    and to all of our Lives whether it's in
  • 00:24:37
    business or in personal lives and then
  • 00:24:40
    how do we actually develop a world in
  • 00:24:44
    the current you know with AI and
  • 00:24:46
    technology and all these things where we
  • 00:24:48
    can continue to seek truth successfully
  • 00:24:51
    and share in a common reality right and
  • 00:24:53
    so anyway I just think that most
  • 00:24:55
    important question uh some of the most
  • 00:24:57
    important people around it we're
  • 00:24:58
    thrilled to have you leading this course
  • 00:25:00
    I have one more question then we're
  • 00:25:01
    going to come to all the questions that
  • 00:25:02
    are lighting up the chat which is just
  • 00:25:04
    talk a little bit about how the course
  • 00:25:07
    actually takes place you have these
  • 00:25:09
    speakers you share your insights but
  • 00:25:11
    then you also break out into small
  • 00:25:13
    groups and allow people to talk with one
  • 00:25:15
    another which is a Corr of the gram
  • 00:25:16
    experience do you want to just describe
  • 00:25:18
    the classroom that you've endeavored
  • 00:25:21
    sure so the the model has been to look
  • 00:25:25
    at uh it the opening part of the of each
  • 00:25:28
    class is to review what the reading was
  • 00:25:31
    for the previous week which is basically
  • 00:25:34
    something that happened in real time in
  • 00:25:36
    the media that reflects on the topic of
  • 00:25:39
    the class so we'll talk about that uh
  • 00:25:42
    and then bring in a speaker who is an
  • 00:25:44
    expert in that who can uh add color and
  • 00:25:48
    depth of knowledge to the topic um and
  • 00:25:51
    then uh there will be plenty of time for
  • 00:25:53
    Q&A from students with that expert as
  • 00:25:56
    well uh and that has been in in my
  • 00:25:59
    previous experience Seth um something
  • 00:26:01
    that both the expert and and the
  • 00:26:04
    students have enjoyed and then finally
  • 00:26:06
    we'll wrap up with um uh breakout
  • 00:26:09
    sessions in which people can share their
  • 00:26:11
    reactions and um and then bring it home
  • 00:26:15
    and get ready for the next week all
  • 00:26:17
    right well let's jump into the questions
  • 00:26:19
    that are coming from our lifelong
  • 00:26:21
    Learning Community Karen mentions the
  • 00:26:24
    Associated Press is suing the White
  • 00:26:26
    House over access to events I'm sure
  • 00:26:28
    you're familiar that after they decided
  • 00:26:31
    to continue uh referring to the Gulf of
  • 00:26:34
    Mexico they were banned uh is the suit
  • 00:26:37
    unprecedented uh does it have a chance
  • 00:26:39
    to be successful in your perspective and
  • 00:26:42
    is there broader learning or meaning
  • 00:26:46
    that we can take away from this
  • 00:26:48
    example there was going to be a clash
  • 00:26:51
    between the White House and the the
  • 00:26:54
    traditional media over something it's
  • 00:26:57
    kind of humorous that it is over the
  • 00:27:00
    Gulf of Mexico or the Gulf of America um
  • 00:27:04
    but this is where the battle lines were
  • 00:27:06
    drawn I can't think of a time when this
  • 00:27:10
    happened and over the wording of uh a
  • 00:27:15
    particular thing also we've never had a
  • 00:27:17
    president who
  • 00:27:18
    who re tried to rename an international
  • 00:27:21
    body of water before um I don't know how
  • 00:27:25
    it will actually shake out and you can
  • 00:27:28
    see in the right-wing press that the um
  • 00:27:33
    explanation the kind of backfill about
  • 00:27:36
    what is going on here is not just about
  • 00:27:41
    the about the naming of that body of
  • 00:27:43
    water but also about the kind of word
  • 00:27:45
    choices that um the AP has uh kind of
  • 00:27:51
    insinuated into the into the Lexicon of
  • 00:27:55
    newsrooms around the country because of
  • 00:27:56
    its highly influence IAL style guide and
  • 00:28:00
    Seth alluded to that earlier on in in
  • 00:28:02
    our session today um about the language
  • 00:28:05
    that's used by um various Publications
  • 00:28:09
    and what that says to you about their
  • 00:28:10
    political
  • 00:28:11
    leaning you know
  • 00:28:13
    I I I don't know what power the
  • 00:28:17
    Associated Press has to compel the White
  • 00:28:20
    House to allow them in and there are
  • 00:28:23
    organizations of course that are are
  • 00:28:25
    excluded but I think this says this has
  • 00:28:29
    tremendous implications the Associated
  • 00:28:32
    Press is really makes an effort to be
  • 00:28:35
    straight down the middle and kind of
  • 00:28:38
    more important for the information
  • 00:28:41
    environment as a whole the Associated
  • 00:28:43
    Press supplies local news with their
  • 00:28:46
    National and international coverage and
  • 00:28:49
    if that is compromised by this Feud over
  • 00:28:53
    the Gulf of Mexico Gulf of America then
  • 00:28:57
    all of me and especially local media
  • 00:29:00
    will suffer we have a question from Fred
  • 00:29:03
    Boler who says part of the challenge is
  • 00:29:07
    an erosion of trust in professional
  • 00:29:09
    journalism obviously the something that
  • 00:29:11
    you work a lot on Eric yes he also
  • 00:29:13
    points out in a similar way there is
  • 00:29:16
    reduced trust in science in government
  • 00:29:19
    in the Constitution I mean you look at
  • 00:29:21
    trust studies and basically all of these
  • 00:29:25
    institutions that once commanded you
  • 00:29:28
    know 90 plus% of trust higher education
  • 00:29:31
    being another uh we're now you know in
  • 00:29:34
    the 50s or below and if you then look
  • 00:29:37
    into why uh it's because only one group
  • 00:29:41
    with a certain political view might
  • 00:29:43
    still have trust and another group might
  • 00:29:45
    not and so talk a little bit about where
  • 00:29:50
    we are in journalism from a trust
  • 00:29:52
    perspective and where we go from here
  • 00:29:54
    because you know in one sense this is
  • 00:29:57
    some somewhat specific to journalism
  • 00:29:59
    right there are elements here in another
  • 00:30:01
    sense in a world to the point we made
  • 00:30:04
    earlier where everyone including your
  • 00:30:06
    uncle is a main news source and there is
  • 00:30:10
    not necessarily A veracity to everything
  • 00:30:12
    that's said right it might be that The
  • 00:30:15
    New Normal is just that we are going to
  • 00:30:17
    live in a less trusting Society because
  • 00:30:19
    there is abundant information and
  • 00:30:22
    statements and it's very hard for an
  • 00:30:24
    individual to tell which ones are true
  • 00:30:27
    and not and so even though you might
  • 00:30:29
    expect the natural response over time
  • 00:30:30
    would be that those that actually are
  • 00:30:32
    factual would get more credibility and
  • 00:30:35
    regain I mean that's not where I see the
  • 00:30:37
    cards moving at the moment because you
  • 00:30:40
    know there's a lot of evidence
  • 00:30:41
    psychologically if you repeat something
  • 00:30:43
    whether that is true or not it actually
  • 00:30:45
    sticks based on its repetition not based
  • 00:30:48
    on its veracity and so just talk a
  • 00:30:49
    little bit about trust how you think
  • 00:30:51
    about it and where you see both the
  • 00:30:53
    challenges and opportunities for
  • 00:30:55
    journalism well I would say that um
  • 00:30:59
    institutional journalism has indeed uh
  • 00:31:01
    lost a lot of trust that's obvious from
  • 00:31:03
    the data and and your right Seth that
  • 00:31:05
    this is not limited to to journalism
  • 00:31:10
    alone and
  • 00:31:12
    yet you may decide that you no longer
  • 00:31:15
    trust the New York Times say but you
  • 00:31:19
    can't be alive in this modern era
  • 00:31:23
    without trusting someone so it it's not
  • 00:31:26
    a question of there there is no trust
  • 00:31:28
    it's just where are you going to spend
  • 00:31:30
    it trust is you know basically the act
  • 00:31:34
    of making yourself vulnerable to the
  • 00:31:37
    information you get from somebody else
  • 00:31:39
    if you're going to act
  • 00:31:41
    on um the information you get about
  • 00:31:45
    public health about
  • 00:31:47
    vaccines um you are making your you're
  • 00:31:50
    putting your health at risk and whether
  • 00:31:52
    you get that information from RFK Jr or
  • 00:31:55
    from the CDC could have really
  • 00:31:58
    important implications for your for your
  • 00:32:00
    health so the I think the question is
  • 00:32:03
    not you know I I I'm going to withdraw
  • 00:32:07
    all trust that's not actually possible
  • 00:32:10
    it's how do I become
  • 00:32:13
    more um discriminating about where I
  • 00:32:16
    give that trust and so that will be one
  • 00:32:18
    of the things that that we'll cover um
  • 00:32:21
    we'll have Dana G Young from the
  • 00:32:23
    University of Delaware to help us with
  • 00:32:25
    that uh psychology and and um
  • 00:32:28
    uh journalism Professor there and so I I
  • 00:32:33
    think that is the question the trend
  • 00:32:35
    right now is to lower trust in all kinds
  • 00:32:38
    of
  • 00:32:40
    expertise I think there's a pendulum
  • 00:32:42
    swing here um and I think that uh unless
  • 00:32:47
    I think in the real world we understand
  • 00:32:49
    that there really is a difference
  • 00:32:50
    between someone who spent 20 years
  • 00:32:52
    practicing medicine and seven years in
  • 00:32:54
    med school before that in the quality of
  • 00:32:57
    advice they give versus an influencer on
  • 00:33:00
    Tik Tok and eventually um I think as you
  • 00:33:05
    as you learn to
  • 00:33:08
    think um critically about the
  • 00:33:11
    information you get that you will that
  • 00:33:13
    you'll be able to assemble a source of
  • 00:33:16
    um of trusted Messengers that are truly
  • 00:33:21
    truly
  • 00:33:22
    reliable even provasnik asked did the
  • 00:33:25
    FCC change in 1987 abolishing the
  • 00:33:28
    fairness Doctrine it's at the stage for
  • 00:33:31
    transformation of business model that
  • 00:33:33
    you explained another big law Eric is
  • 00:33:36
    when you know media like uh Google and
  • 00:33:41
    you know at the time uh this is uh
  • 00:33:44
    before Facebook the the precursor but
  • 00:33:46
    when they were coming into the world you
  • 00:33:48
    know they have a legal decision or
  • 00:33:51
    legislative decision where you know they
  • 00:33:53
    basically say these are content neutral
  • 00:33:55
    so they don't have the same obligations
  • 00:33:57
    as for example the New York Times if
  • 00:33:59
    something shows up that's lious or
  • 00:34:00
    things like that they're not responsible
  • 00:34:02
    in the same way and talk a little bit in
  • 00:34:04
    in you know address this 1987 change but
  • 00:34:07
    to talk a little bit more broadly how
  • 00:34:09
    has policy shaped where we are today and
  • 00:34:12
    shaped the business model development
  • 00:34:14
    because I think it's an interesting
  • 00:34:16
    question my understanding is we're a
  • 00:34:17
    little bit different from Europe in the
  • 00:34:19
    way that we treat some of these things
  • 00:34:21
    as just a comparative
  • 00:34:22
    study um that is true so you're
  • 00:34:24
    referring to section 230 of the
  • 00:34:26
    communications decency act from from the
  • 00:34:29
    1990s um one thing you could say about
  • 00:34:32
    both um of those changes those
  • 00:34:36
    Regulatory and legislative changes is
  • 00:34:38
    that um the law of unintended
  • 00:34:40
    consequences always applies so the
  • 00:34:42
    fairness Doctrine um
  • 00:34:46
    was was not sustainable in a changing
  • 00:34:50
    information environment even back in
  • 00:34:51
    1987 so the the government's power to
  • 00:34:54
    enforce the fairness Doctrine was
  • 00:34:57
    granted because of the government's
  • 00:34:59
    control over the Broadband spectrum and
  • 00:35:01
    a broadcast spectrum and as cable media
  • 00:35:06
    arose let alone um social media the
  • 00:35:09
    government's jurisdiction over that
  • 00:35:11
    failed so it it kind of was hampering
  • 00:35:16
    broadcast media in a way that sort of
  • 00:35:19
    was not sustainable um it would be nice
  • 00:35:22
    if if some kind of fairness Doctrine or
  • 00:35:27
    um
  • 00:35:28
    veracity Doctrine were reinstated but I
  • 00:35:30
    don't think
  • 00:35:32
    that's very very likely we can talk
  • 00:35:35
    about Europe in a second um with Section
  • 00:35:38
    230 um there the um the absolving social
  • 00:35:44
    media platforms of any kind of liability
  • 00:35:48
    for what's posted on the sites
  • 00:35:50
    especially if it's done by users was
  • 00:35:53
    determined to be necessary for the
  • 00:35:55
    growth of the internet and um it worked
  • 00:35:57
    in the sense that the internet grew um
  • 00:35:59
    but it did mean that platforms could
  • 00:36:04
    become you know for for lack of a
  • 00:36:08
    un um for lack of a more neutral term
  • 00:36:10
    cesspools many of them of false
  • 00:36:13
    information and hate speech and um
  • 00:36:16
    because of programmatic advertising that
  • 00:36:18
    does not destroy their business model
  • 00:36:20
    necessarily
  • 00:36:22
    and um that is also a difficult one to
  • 00:36:26
    change now because um now because the
  • 00:36:30
    even though there's a there is pressure
  • 00:36:32
    in government to do that but now the
  • 00:36:35
    internet platforms have become so
  • 00:36:36
    powerful that their lobbying efforts can
  • 00:36:39
    stall that one one aspect of this is
  • 00:36:42
    section 230 does not apply to artificial
  • 00:36:45
    intelligence and that and that um the
  • 00:36:48
    information that that those models
  • 00:36:50
    generate so that that is a lever that
  • 00:36:52
    still exists for regulation of
  • 00:36:54
    artificial intelligence if we have the
  • 00:36:56
    political will to apply it
  • 00:36:58
    in Europe um the Digital Services act
  • 00:37:01
    does require large platforms to adhere
  • 00:37:04
    to certain standards um and the question
  • 00:37:08
    there is whether the
  • 00:37:11
    EU has the political will to stand up to
  • 00:37:15
    people and like Elon Musk or
  • 00:37:18
    organizations like Facebook and that has
  • 00:37:21
    not been demonstrated um but it does it
  • 00:37:25
    it does offer I think an example of what
  • 00:37:29
    could happen um but again that these
  • 00:37:33
    organizations are now so
  • 00:37:36
    powerful um that I believe that for the
  • 00:37:41
    foreseeable future we are going to be in
  • 00:37:44
    charge of our own information
  • 00:37:46
    environment that we have to create an
  • 00:37:49
    information micro climate if you will
  • 00:37:51
    around ourselves using our own powers of
  • 00:37:54
    perception and discretion
  • 00:37:57
    to um do the best job we can at getting
  • 00:38:00
    out the truth well so Eric I want to um
  • 00:38:04
    go deeper into that question because we
  • 00:38:06
    have a question here that comes from
  • 00:38:09
    Barbara Sago it takes much more work
  • 00:38:12
    today to identify trusted sources what
  • 00:38:14
    does this imply for the average person
  • 00:38:16
    trying to remain
  • 00:38:19
    informed the analogy that I often use is
  • 00:38:24
    that consuming news right now is like
  • 00:38:27
    you using email and you know perhaps by
  • 00:38:32
    hard experience that um when you get an
  • 00:38:35
    email from a Nigerian prince who is
  • 00:38:38
    going to share his fortune with you if
  • 00:38:40
    all you and all you have to do is turn
  • 00:38:42
    over your bank account number that that
  • 00:38:45
    is not
  • 00:38:47
    real if you could use that same power of
  • 00:38:51
    critical thinking to your news feed you
  • 00:38:54
    would have a much better idea of um what
  • 00:38:57
    is true it is definitely more work just
  • 00:38:59
    as it's more work to um to filter out
  • 00:39:04
    the the stuff that comes across your
  • 00:39:06
    email feed this is just what it's life
  • 00:39:09
    what it's like to live in the 21st
  • 00:39:11
    century there are many conveniences that
  • 00:39:13
    email and social media um provide and
  • 00:39:17
    digital um news even from uh you know in
  • 00:39:22
    trusted
  • 00:39:23
    institutions but it comes with a
  • 00:39:25
    downside and there is there is more work
  • 00:39:28
    um I think that this is just part of
  • 00:39:30
    being a citizen in the 21st century so
  • 00:39:34
    we have a couple questions in the chat
  • 00:39:35
    Eric about the future and one of them
  • 00:39:38
    asked about whether or not these growing
  • 00:39:41
    nonprofit models actually are more
  • 00:39:45
    balanced and are able to push past the
  • 00:39:48
    polarization curious if you can comment
  • 00:39:49
    on that and then a broader question from
  • 00:39:51
    Rob man about okay given all of these
  • 00:39:54
    changes where are we headed and what is
  • 00:39:56
    the future of the institution of media
  • 00:39:58
    so maybe you can think about the big
  • 00:40:00
    picture question of the future but
  • 00:40:01
    include in that a little bit of analysis
  • 00:40:03
    on what we're seeing out of these more
  • 00:40:06
    early examples of some of the nonprofit
  • 00:40:08
    forms including here in Chicago where we
  • 00:40:09
    have Chicago public
  • 00:40:11
    media
  • 00:40:12
    um
  • 00:40:14
    that obviously this is a focus of my my
  • 00:40:18
    own not for-profit the alliance for
  • 00:40:20
    Trust in Media and I I would say
  • 00:40:24
    that not for-profit media works best
  • 00:40:28
    uh when it is focused on a particular
  • 00:40:32
    outcome that can be supported by
  • 00:40:34
    philanthropy so a couple of examples one
  • 00:40:36
    you mentioned is Chicago public media
  • 00:40:40
    where people in the community are
  • 00:40:42
    helping to support of
  • 00:40:46
    nonpartisan inform and reliable
  • 00:40:48
    information about Chicago and Chicago
  • 00:40:51
    environs um and that is the model that
  • 00:40:54
    you see play out uh across the country
  • 00:40:57
    in local um uh in in local news
  • 00:41:01
    environments the Texas Tribune would be
  • 00:41:03
    another one for the State of Texas um
  • 00:41:06
    Cal matters for California another model
  • 00:41:10
    that works with um not for-profit uh
  • 00:41:13
    with a not for-profit business model
  • 00:41:16
    would be investigative journalism which
  • 00:41:18
    is never paid off even for um
  • 00:41:21
    institutions that would sort of
  • 00:41:24
    subsidize it from the money they made
  • 00:41:26
    doing sports and and and um talk shows
  • 00:41:30
    and things like that um so propublica or
  • 00:41:33
    Spotlight PA or other organizations like
  • 00:41:37
    that that really who whose main business
  • 00:41:40
    is accountability
  • 00:41:42
    journalism so you know in the long run I
  • 00:41:46
    do think that not
  • 00:41:48
    for-profit
  • 00:41:50
    uh and uh contributions from in
  • 00:41:53
    philanthropy is just one of many
  • 00:41:56
    revenues streams that media will need to
  • 00:41:59
    cash in on to survive and be sustainable
  • 00:42:02
    and hopefully a diminishing one over
  • 00:42:04
    time as people realize that the value
  • 00:42:08
    they get from reliable journalism is
  • 00:42:10
    worth paying for um to answer the
  • 00:42:14
    question about media in
  • 00:42:16
    general uh I would say it's I don't know
  • 00:42:20
    uh and I think that this is something
  • 00:42:22
    that we will discover as we go ahead one
  • 00:42:24
    thing is clear um that we're not going
  • 00:42:27
    back to um a a the simple world of three
  • 00:42:33
    broadcast networks and your Metropolitan
  • 00:42:36
    paper but I also have a lot of faith
  • 00:42:40
    in people's desire to find out what's
  • 00:42:44
    true or at least if not that at least
  • 00:42:48
    not to be
  • 00:42:49
    fooled that no one democrat or
  • 00:42:52
    republican
  • 00:42:54
    independent MAA or or Progressive wants
  • 00:42:58
    to be a
  • 00:43:00
    py and I think that when you acquire the
  • 00:43:04
    skills
  • 00:43:06
    to get at the truth and if you do this
  • 00:43:08
    in good faith understanding that's like
  • 00:43:11
    you know no institution no delivery of
  • 00:43:14
    news is perfect um and that and take
  • 00:43:17
    responsibil ability for being the
  • 00:43:19
    Arbiter of your own truthful Newsfeed
  • 00:43:23
    that that force will become something
  • 00:43:26
    that
  • 00:43:27
    brings uh news media back to the the
  • 00:43:32
    level of trust and respect that is kind
  • 00:43:35
    of implied by a
  • 00:43:38
    democracy and we have a question from
  • 00:43:40
    Susan Lions about the legal cases that
  • 00:43:43
    are now coming around media in her
  • 00:43:46
    example she talks about consumer privacy
  • 00:43:49
    that attempt to fight big Tech and media
  • 00:43:51
    algorithms and protecting individuals
  • 00:43:53
    right to privacy so I'll lay that on the
  • 00:43:55
    table let me just also lay
  • 00:43:57
    simultaneously there's been a lot of
  • 00:43:59
    other cases where media companies have
  • 00:44:03
    been potentially liable for
  • 00:44:06
    misinformation I'm thinking of fox but
  • 00:44:08
    also recently ABC settling with Trump uh
  • 00:44:12
    so can you just talk about how the law
  • 00:44:15
    may play a role and if it can be a
  • 00:44:18
    successful lever potentially in
  • 00:44:22
    addressing some aspects of the
  • 00:44:25
    misinformation yes I it can be it can
  • 00:44:28
    also as you you noted SE be weaponized
  • 00:44:31
    against media um just to comment on on
  • 00:44:35
    the cases that you mentioned that a ABC
  • 00:44:39
    basically settling that uh liel suit
  • 00:44:42
    which many legal Scholars said ABC could
  • 00:44:45
    have won um there's a similar one at
  • 00:44:47
    play with CBS which is uh as a as a Lial
  • 00:44:52
    case uh it's even more far-fetched
  • 00:44:55
    um in in those cases the the broadcast
  • 00:45:00
    station the broadcast network is owned
  • 00:45:03
    by a larger organization that has to do
  • 00:45:06
    business with the government on many
  • 00:45:08
    different fronts and media is a small
  • 00:45:11
    part of the business ABC is owned by
  • 00:45:14
    Disney uh for example and
  • 00:45:18
    um
  • 00:45:20
    the uh and the Washington Post was owned
  • 00:45:23
    by Amazon and so on and so the
  • 00:45:25
    um the
  • 00:45:27
    corporate needs have outweighed the um
  • 00:45:32
    the
  • 00:45:33
    the institutional journalism Integrity
  • 00:45:37
    there and I that is very alarming and it
  • 00:45:40
    speaks to a kind of
  • 00:45:43
    um authoritarian Playbook that we've
  • 00:45:46
    seen play out in Eastern Europe in
  • 00:45:48
    Hungary for example and in Turkey where
  • 00:45:51
    the um the ruling Powers use the law and
  • 00:45:55
    financial pressure to um quiet their
  • 00:46:00
    critics in the press and stifle the
  • 00:46:02
    exercise of independent
  • 00:46:05
    press uh my My Hope Is that um owners of
  • 00:46:13
    media companies with a spine will stand
  • 00:46:16
    up for the First Amendment the liel
  • 00:46:19
    suits that are commanding a lot of
  • 00:46:21
    attention right now like ABC and CBS um
  • 00:46:25
    are are ridiculous under ruling
  • 00:46:28
    standards like the um uh the New York
  • 00:46:31
    Times versus Sullivan which which say
  • 00:46:34
    that um newsrooms are not liable and
  • 00:46:37
    talking about public figures unless the
  • 00:46:39
    public figure can prove actual malice
  • 00:46:41
    and that doesn't seem to be uh have been
  • 00:46:44
    played a role in ABC or in the CBS thing
  • 00:46:48
    um but you know the law is not the only
  • 00:46:51
    Factor here and financial pressure
  • 00:46:54
    particularly in a government that has
  • 00:46:58
    indicated that it is going to
  • 00:47:01
    use um Financial pressure and
  • 00:47:05
    favoritism to place a thumb on the scale
  • 00:47:08
    of business decisions regulatory
  • 00:47:10
    decisions it's a really difficult
  • 00:47:12
    challenge for uh a mediate executive who
  • 00:47:15
    has shareholders to answer
  • 00:47:16
    to uh we are at time Eric but let me
  • 00:47:20
    just come to one last question in the
  • 00:47:22
    chat um you know when you think about
  • 00:47:25
    where we are uh what gives you the
  • 00:47:28
    greatest hope like where do you see the
  • 00:47:31
    greatest bright spot in trying to move
  • 00:47:34
    toward a media environment that would
  • 00:47:37
    fulfill our goals as you know citizens
  • 00:47:41
    who want accurate information on which
  • 00:47:44
    to base decision
  • 00:47:47
    making well one of them is what I
  • 00:47:49
    mentioned before is that I think
  • 00:47:52
    people are gravitate
  • 00:47:54
    towards what really describes the
  • 00:47:57
    reality that they live in and they do
  • 00:47:59
    not want to be taken advantage of and so
  • 00:48:01
    in the end um
  • 00:48:04
    truth reality um has a a tremendous
  • 00:48:10
    advantage over misinformation
  • 00:48:13
    misinformation does not describe the
  • 00:48:15
    world misinformation does not support
  • 00:48:18
    your interests and uh in the long run it
  • 00:48:23
    is a very very fragile um Foundation on
  • 00:48:27
    which to build um you know a a media
  • 00:48:30
    industry or a government um you know
  • 00:48:34
    the the I I when I reflect on this I'm I
  • 00:48:39
    think about kind of stories from history
  • 00:48:44
    or from fairy tales so there is the um
  • 00:48:48
    the emperor's new cloth that when you
  • 00:48:51
    point out that something that people
  • 00:48:53
    have been misinformed about is not true
  • 00:48:56
    and it is obviously not true the
  • 00:48:58
    falsehood
  • 00:49:00
    collapses we saw that in that fairy tale
  • 00:49:03
    but also we saw that in reality in the
  • 00:49:08
    fall of um Soviet uh domination of
  • 00:49:12
    Eastern
  • 00:49:13
    Europe everybody understood that the
  • 00:49:17
    workers of the world were not United
  • 00:49:19
    behind the Communist rulers of East
  • 00:49:21
    Germany and Czechoslovakia and uh and
  • 00:49:25
    Hungary and when it just when the when
  • 00:49:30
    the momentum shifted towards truth away
  • 00:49:34
    from government propaganda it collapsed
  • 00:49:37
    and when that
  • 00:49:38
    happens the organizations that have
  • 00:49:41
    stood for truth in spite of that will be
  • 00:49:43
    elevated so that is sort of the hopeful
  • 00:49:45
    environment that I see well that reminds
  • 00:49:48
    me of I think one of the most powerful
  • 00:49:50
    writings that I've ever read which is
  • 00:49:52
    VAB haval and you know his description
  • 00:49:54
    of living in that time and seeing the
  • 00:49:57
    signs workers of the World Unite but
  • 00:50:00
    realizing that that was not what was
  • 00:50:02
    taking place and you know finally coming
  • 00:50:04
    to terms with the disconnect between
  • 00:50:07
    what was said and what was reality and
  • 00:50:09
    how to move forward so uh we'll use that
  • 00:50:12
    as a hopeful ending to a very tricky
  • 00:50:15
    challenge uh I could not imagine a
  • 00:50:17
    better guide to a more important issue
  • 00:50:20
    thank you for teaching at the Graham
  • 00:50:22
    School Eric thank you for bringing this
  • 00:50:23
    topic to the four and we look forward
  • 00:50:26
    enthusiastically and gratefully to your
  • 00:50:28
    class and uh we'll follow up with
  • 00:50:29
    everyone here so that if you're
  • 00:50:31
    interested in taking it you'll have the
  • 00:50:33
    information on which to do so I know
  • 00:50:34
    class is filling up quickly thank you
  • 00:50:36
    all have a great rest of your day and
  • 00:50:38
    thank you Eric oh thank you thank you
  • 00:50:40
    Seth and thank you everyone for for
  • 00:50:42
    listening in hi
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