Black Lives Matter with IndigenousX (Premiere) | Digital Season

00:43:16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--l3GznO74s

概要

TLDREl panel, moderado por Larissa Berent, aborda la respuesta de Black Lives Matter en Australia, enfocándose en la brutalidad policial y el racismo institucional que afecta a las comunidades indígenas y refugiadas. Los panelistas, Tony McAvoy y Deng Thiak Adut, discuten la necesidad de reformas en el sistema judicial, la sobreincarceración de personas indígenas y la importancia de la reinversión en la justicia. Se enfatiza que el cambio requiere un compromiso político y un cambio en la percepción pública sobre el racismo y la justicia. Además, se plantea la necesidad de alternativas a la prisión para los jóvenes y se critica la falta de acción del gobierno ante la injusticia racial.

収穫

  • ✊ La importancia de Black Lives Matter en Australia.
  • 📉 La sobreincarceración de indígenas es un problema crítico.
  • 🏛️ Se necesita un cambio en el sistema judicial.
  • 💔 La brutalidad policial afecta a comunidades vulnerables.
  • 🌍 La reinversión en justicia puede prevenir el crimen.
  • 🚫 Desfinanciar la policía implica redirigir fondos a la comunidad.
  • 🗣️ La voz de los jóvenes es crucial para el cambio.
  • 🤝 La educación es clave para combatir el racismo.
  • 📜 Se requieren tratados para empoderar a las comunidades indígenas.
  • 💡 La acción política es necesaria para lograr reformas.

タイムライン

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    Luke Pearson, fundador de Indigenous X, presenta un panel sobre la respuesta a Black Lives Matter, destacando la brutalidad policial y la necesidad de reformas en Australia, especialmente en relación con las comunidades indígenas y refugiadas.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Larissa Berent introduce a los panelistas, incluyendo a Tony McAvoy, un abogado indígena, y Deng Thiak Adut, un ex niño soldado y abogado, quienes comparten sus experiencias y perspectivas sobre la brutalidad policial y el racismo institucional en Australia.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Deng comparte su reacción a las imágenes de George Floyd, expresando que aunque no se sintió directamente afectado, se preocupa más por la situación de los indígenas en Australia y la brutalidad policial que enfrentan.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Tony expresa sorpresa por la respuesta global a la muerte de Floyd, señalando que la pandemia de COVID-19 ha llevado a las personas a reflexionar sobre la sociedad que desean, y cómo esto ha generado un apoyo significativo para el movimiento Black Lives Matter en Australia.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Deng y Tony discuten la importancia de abordar los problemas locales en Australia, como la sobreincarceración de los indígenas y la falta de protección judicial para ellos, destacando la necesidad de un cambio en la percepción pública y política.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Tony señala que el sistema no está listo para cambiar, citando ejemplos de actitudes discriminatorias dentro de la policía y el gobierno, y enfatiza que se necesita un movimiento sustancial para lograr reformas significativas.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    Deng critica la falta de responsabilidad en el gobierno y la política, expresando desconfianza en el sistema político actual y sugiriendo que el cambio es poco probable sin una nueva generación de líderes.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:43:16

    Ambos panelistas abordan el concepto de 'defundir la policía' y la necesidad de redirigir fondos hacia programas comunitarios que aborden las causas subyacentes de la criminalidad, en lugar de construir más cárceles.

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マインドマップ

ビデオQ&A

  • ¿Qué es Indigenous X?

    Indigenous X es una organización que promueve la voz y los derechos de las comunidades indígenas en Australia.

  • ¿Cuál es el enfoque del panel?

    El panel se centra en la respuesta de Black Lives Matter en Australia y la necesidad de reformas en el sistema judicial.

  • ¿Quiénes son los panelistas?

    Los panelistas son Tony McAvoy, un abogado indígena, y Deng Thiak Adut, un abogado y defensor de refugiados.

  • ¿Qué temas se discuten en el panel?

    Se discuten la brutalidad policial, el racismo institucional, la sobreincarceración de indígenas y la reinversión en la justicia.

  • ¿Qué es la reinversión en la justicia?

    Es un enfoque que busca redirigir fondos de la policía y el sistema penitenciario hacia programas comunitarios que prevengan el crimen.

  • ¿Qué significa 'desfinanciar la policía'?

    Significa reducir el financiamiento a la policía y redirigir esos recursos hacia iniciativas comunitarias.

  • ¿Qué se necesita para lograr un cambio en el sistema?

    Se necesita un compromiso político y un cambio en la percepción pública sobre el racismo y la justicia.

  • ¿Cómo se relaciona Black Lives Matter con Australia?

    El movimiento ha resonado en Australia, destacando problemas como la brutalidad policial y la injusticia hacia las comunidades indígenas.

  • ¿Qué papel juegan los jóvenes en este contexto?

    Los jóvenes son cruciales para el cambio, y se necesitan alternativas a la prisión para evitar su encarcelamiento.

  • ¿Qué se puede hacer para abordar el racismo en la comunidad?

    Es necesario educar y crear conciencia sobre el racismo y fomentar el respeto hacia las comunidades indígenas.

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オートスクロール:
  • 00:00:29
    yama
  • 00:00:30
    i'm luke pearson gomorrah man and
  • 00:00:32
    founder of indigenous x
  • 00:00:34
    indigenous x has been invited to curate
  • 00:00:36
    this panel today
  • 00:00:37
    to talk in response to black lives
  • 00:00:39
    matter and speak to some of the reforms
  • 00:00:41
    that are much needed across the country
  • 00:00:43
    in a number of different
  • 00:00:44
    areas in response black lives matter
  • 00:00:47
    has been a global movement obviously
  • 00:00:49
    beginning in america in response to
  • 00:00:50
    police brutality
  • 00:00:51
    and the killing of african-american
  • 00:00:53
    people by police
  • 00:00:54
    in australia it's resonated on a number
  • 00:00:57
    of different issues
  • 00:00:58
    with a number of different communities
  • 00:00:59
    obviously indigenous australia
  • 00:01:01
    with over policing over incarceration
  • 00:01:04
    rates
  • 00:01:05
    and most notably aboriginal deaths in
  • 00:01:06
    custody but it also speaks to our
  • 00:01:08
    refugee communities
  • 00:01:10
    and members of the african diaspora
  • 00:01:12
    along similar lines
  • 00:01:14
    of institutional racism police brutality
  • 00:01:17
    and need for reform so our panel today
  • 00:01:20
    will be led by larissa berent
  • 00:01:22
    who will introduce the manners and lead
  • 00:01:24
    the conversation thank you
  • 00:01:26
    thank you luke it is my great privilege
  • 00:01:28
    to introduce our panel
  • 00:01:31
    tony mcavoy sc is a wordy man from the
  • 00:01:34
    central queensland
  • 00:01:35
    area around clermont he is also a native
  • 00:01:38
    title holder in his grandmother's
  • 00:01:40
    country around
  • 00:01:41
    thagaminda in southwest queensland
  • 00:01:44
    he's been a barrister since 2000 and
  • 00:01:47
    senior council since
  • 00:01:48
    2015 the first indigenous australian to
  • 00:01:51
    get that honour
  • 00:01:53
    he currently chairs the new south wales
  • 00:01:55
    bar association's first nations
  • 00:01:57
    committee and
  • 00:01:58
    is a member of the new south wales bar
  • 00:02:00
    indigenous
  • 00:02:01
    joint working party on
  • 00:02:03
    over-incarceration
  • 00:02:04
    he is co-chair of the law council of
  • 00:02:07
    australia's indigenous legal issues
  • 00:02:09
    committee
  • 00:02:09
    and is a member of the law council's
  • 00:02:12
    indigenous incarceration working group
  • 00:02:15
    he was co-senior council assisting the
  • 00:02:18
    dondale royal commission
  • 00:02:20
    deng thiak adut was a former child
  • 00:02:23
    soldier from south sudan before he
  • 00:02:25
    immigrated to australia
  • 00:02:27
    he earned his law degree at western
  • 00:02:30
    sydney university
  • 00:02:31
    and now works as a refugee advocate and
  • 00:02:34
    lawyer
  • 00:02:35
    his story has been an inspiration to
  • 00:02:37
    many and his
  • 00:02:38
    is an important and powerful voice he
  • 00:02:41
    was named the 2017
  • 00:02:44
    new south wales australian of the year
  • 00:02:47
    dang
  • 00:02:47
    i might start with you and ask how you
  • 00:02:49
    felt when you first saw those images of
  • 00:02:52
    george floyd
  • 00:02:54
    and i'm interested if you could share
  • 00:02:55
    with us the emotions and thoughts
  • 00:02:58
    that came to you when those images were
  • 00:03:00
    sent around the world
  • 00:03:03
    um to be honest with the
  • 00:03:07
    answer um i didn't feel any different
  • 00:03:12
    my thought was something that is
  • 00:03:16
    often that i see on television and
  • 00:03:20
    it was something that is i would say
  • 00:03:23
    have nothing to do with me generally
  • 00:03:26
    even though
  • 00:03:27
    it was a black man i he's
  • 00:03:30
    american it's not african
  • 00:03:33
    and i'm more concerned of
  • 00:03:36
    the african here in australia all
  • 00:03:40
    indigenous people in australia and in
  • 00:03:42
    general
  • 00:03:43
    every shelling that are here so if it
  • 00:03:46
    was
  • 00:03:47
    an australian man i would
  • 00:03:50
    have thought differently i would say
  • 00:03:54
    that's wrong but that is a different
  • 00:03:56
    business that's none of my business
  • 00:03:58
    but what i was more concerned of was
  • 00:04:01
    um i'm i'm i'm a former child soldier
  • 00:04:05
    i know the injuries people suffer
  • 00:04:09
    i know what falls i was trained
  • 00:04:12
    properly i know what you can do with
  • 00:04:16
    your hand to hurt somebody
  • 00:04:18
    or even placing your knee but that man
  • 00:04:20
    was he was sleeping
  • 00:04:22
    just almost he was just using him as a
  • 00:04:24
    mattress so i was like
  • 00:04:27
    that is something that i shouldn't be
  • 00:04:29
    talking about but yes
  • 00:04:31
    um it's none of my business shouldn't be
  • 00:04:33
    talking about
  • 00:04:34
    something else that concerned me in
  • 00:04:36
    australia i think that would be my
  • 00:04:38
    business
  • 00:04:39
    and that's where the black lives matters
  • 00:04:41
    came into
  • 00:04:42
    when i when i touched on those issues
  • 00:04:45
    concerning australia
  • 00:04:46
    but at this stage it's america and
  • 00:04:49
    those people how they got there we all
  • 00:04:51
    know very well
  • 00:04:52
    how they got there and so i can
  • 00:04:56
    can talk about it i'm going to talk
  • 00:04:57
    about specifically things that concern
  • 00:04:59
    me in australia
  • 00:05:00
    that's how i look at it and um
  • 00:05:03
    i'd love to come back to you on that
  • 00:05:05
    next but i just want to ask you tony
  • 00:05:08
    have you been surprised by the response
  • 00:05:11
    across
  • 00:05:11
    the u.s and around the world and
  • 00:05:13
    particularly in australia
  • 00:05:15
    to those images of george floyd given
  • 00:05:18
    how long this has been an issue in
  • 00:05:19
    australia
  • 00:05:21
    yes i was surprised not initially but as
  • 00:05:24
    it went on through the days and weeks
  • 00:05:27
    i was surprised and i think
  • 00:05:30
    i hadn't quite understood how
  • 00:05:33
    deeply affected people were
  • 00:05:37
    by the video which was if you watched it
  • 00:05:40
    it was heart-wrenching
  • 00:05:45
    and that combined with i think the times
  • 00:05:48
    that we're in
  • 00:05:50
    where people have had down time with
  • 00:05:54
    with the covid19 virus had
  • 00:05:57
    they've had time to think about the type
  • 00:05:59
    of society that they want to
  • 00:06:01
    live in and while
  • 00:06:04
    i'm on all of these committees which you
  • 00:06:07
    so nicely spelt out
  • 00:06:09
    um we have been working hard
  • 00:06:12
    the members of that those committees
  • 00:06:14
    worked very hard to try and engage at
  • 00:06:17
    all levels to bring about change
  • 00:06:20
    and we run into brick walls and we find
  • 00:06:24
    limited levels of assistance but
  • 00:06:28
    what i think happened with the george
  • 00:06:30
    floyd
  • 00:06:31
    and the death and the black lives matter
  • 00:06:34
    campaign is that
  • 00:06:36
    it tapped into people's sense of
  • 00:06:39
    what sort of society they want to live
  • 00:06:41
    in do they want to live in a society
  • 00:06:43
    where unfairness and
  • 00:06:48
    a lack of equality pervades
  • 00:06:51
    the the society and i think what's
  • 00:06:54
    happened is that a large number of
  • 00:06:56
    people have said no
  • 00:06:57
    they've had time to think about it and
  • 00:06:58
    they've said no we don't want to live in
  • 00:07:00
    that society
  • 00:07:01
    and i was pleasantly surprised by the
  • 00:07:03
    level of support that is that has come
  • 00:07:04
    out and
  • 00:07:05
    i i think that level of support which
  • 00:07:08
    you've seen in
  • 00:07:09
    in the united states and um and that
  • 00:07:11
    which you're seeing here
  • 00:07:13
    is enough to move political opinion
  • 00:07:19
    dang just to come back to the
  • 00:07:21
    observation you made about
  • 00:07:23
    how it's perhaps important to think more
  • 00:07:25
    locally and about the issues around
  • 00:07:27
    us i wonder if you could then talk to us
  • 00:07:29
    about
  • 00:07:30
    what the what black lives matter means
  • 00:07:32
    to you in the australian context what
  • 00:07:34
    are the issues that should be resonating
  • 00:07:36
    with us
  • 00:07:38
    thank you very much and i think it's the
  • 00:07:41
    most beautiful
  • 00:07:42
    question part two and i think tony and i
  • 00:07:45
    will share the same opinion and nearly
  • 00:07:47
    every single australian
  • 00:07:49
    would share this similar opinion
  • 00:07:55
    last year i do remember
  • 00:07:59
    the high court decision concerning
  • 00:08:02
    indigenous fellows
  • 00:08:05
    that were locked up at a detention
  • 00:08:07
    center
  • 00:08:09
    and they wanted to deport them somewhere
  • 00:08:22
    sometimes people cries sometimes people
  • 00:08:25
    heard
  • 00:08:26
    a lot but
  • 00:08:29
    i couldn't believe
  • 00:08:32
    that there is a high court
  • 00:08:36
    there in australia that will look after
  • 00:08:39
    interests of black fellows or people
  • 00:08:42
    like me
  • 00:08:44
    or a man that had a blood of aboriginal
  • 00:08:47
    drop in his skin and he still couldn't
  • 00:08:49
    even define
  • 00:08:51
    what his this is status for us
  • 00:08:54
    he's slapping the label he's aboriginal
  • 00:08:56
    i'm not aboriginal
  • 00:08:57
    my citizenship is rubbish compared
  • 00:09:01
    to his bloodline that drop of blood
  • 00:09:06
    and make my sins look like a piece of
  • 00:09:08
    crap in my view
  • 00:09:10
    but we deny them we even went to a high
  • 00:09:14
    court or was mary gordon
  • 00:09:15
    who said that this is unacceptable when
  • 00:09:18
    do we have to go back
  • 00:09:20
    to where do we go this is full of stuff
  • 00:09:22
    for me so for me is
  • 00:09:24
    i don't even think there's there is any
  • 00:09:26
    any judicial system that can protect
  • 00:09:29
    a black man i think maybe a political
  • 00:09:32
    will
  • 00:09:32
    is is is a solution at the moment but
  • 00:09:35
    when i
  • 00:09:36
    caught stopped right there at defining
  • 00:09:39
    these
  • 00:09:39
    indigenous people my heart was broken
  • 00:09:42
    and i decided that i shouldn't even be
  • 00:09:45
    here in australia
  • 00:09:46
    if these people are not here just go to
  • 00:09:48
    tony's point about what kind of country
  • 00:09:50
    we want
  • 00:09:51
    um i just want to go back to something
  • 00:09:53
    you said tony because of course the
  • 00:09:55
    there has been a a as you mentioned a
  • 00:09:57
    real shift in
  • 00:09:58
    public perception and public awareness
  • 00:10:00
    of these issues but i was wondering
  • 00:10:03
    do you think at this moment that there
  • 00:10:06
    is the possibility to lead to greater
  • 00:10:08
    changes to the sorts of reforms
  • 00:10:10
    you mentioned that your committees were
  • 00:10:11
    working on is the system ready to change
  • 00:10:16
    i don't believe that the system is ready
  • 00:10:18
    to change right now
  • 00:10:20
    in fact i think that we only need to
  • 00:10:22
    look at the
  • 00:10:24
    response from the new south wales
  • 00:10:26
    commissioner for police when confronted
  • 00:10:28
    with the young aboriginal man who'd had
  • 00:10:30
    his child
  • 00:10:32
    had his feet swept out from underneath
  • 00:10:34
    him by police officers and his
  • 00:10:35
    face slammed into the cement the
  • 00:10:38
    commissioner for police
  • 00:10:40
    said something along the lines of i
  • 00:10:41
    think that that constable would agree he
  • 00:10:43
    was having a bad day
  • 00:10:45
    and that's the attitude of
  • 00:10:48
    an apologist for what is discriminatory
  • 00:10:51
    and totally unacceptable conduct
  • 00:10:55
    similarly at the national level we
  • 00:10:58
    had the prime minister trying to
  • 00:11:01
    deny that there had been practices of
  • 00:11:03
    slavery in this country
  • 00:11:05
    and those that type of language and
  • 00:11:08
    those
  • 00:11:08
    types of responses are consistent with
  • 00:11:12
    a an attitude of
  • 00:11:15
    [Music]
  • 00:11:16
    there's nothing really to look at here
  • 00:11:19
    let's move along
  • 00:11:20
    it's an american issue we've got no
  • 00:11:22
    problems here
  • 00:11:23
    and it's trying to say to the general
  • 00:11:25
    population
  • 00:11:27
    don't get caught up in it don't worry
  • 00:11:29
    about it too much we are in a pretty
  • 00:11:31
    good place
  • 00:11:33
    when in fact
  • 00:11:36
    of course we aren't the similarities
  • 00:11:39
    in terms of systemic racism
  • 00:11:42
    are very strong and
  • 00:11:47
    we only have to look at some of the
  • 00:11:50
    the judgments in the courts last year a
  • 00:11:56
    a coroner's report was handed down in
  • 00:11:58
    relation to a death at
  • 00:12:00
    a tumor hospital of an aboriginal woman
  • 00:12:02
    night naomi williams a graduate woman
  • 00:12:05
    who had been denied service by
  • 00:12:08
    by the health workers over a
  • 00:12:11
    period of 12 months until
  • 00:12:14
    it reached a point where she died and
  • 00:12:16
    the coroner found that
  • 00:12:18
    that that was as a consequence of
  • 00:12:21
    systemic racism we we
  • 00:12:24
    uh we only need to look at the coroner's
  • 00:12:27
    report into this
  • 00:12:28
    the the deaths of young people in in
  • 00:12:30
    broome
  • 00:12:32
    there were 13 suicides which the coroner
  • 00:12:35
    in western australia looked at and
  • 00:12:37
    found that the coroner found that one of
  • 00:12:40
    the
  • 00:12:40
    factors that led to the
  • 00:12:43
    position of despair of such despair in
  • 00:12:46
    these young people
  • 00:12:49
    that they would commit suicide
  • 00:12:53
    was the effect of
  • 00:12:57
    intergenerational trauma as a result of
  • 00:12:59
    the ongoing colonial process
  • 00:13:02
    [Music]
  • 00:13:03
    we have all of these
  • 00:13:07
    objective measures where courts or
  • 00:13:10
    reports have been
  • 00:13:11
    completed and and they all generally say
  • 00:13:16
    that there is systemic racism in the way
  • 00:13:18
    in which aboriginal
  • 00:13:20
    and torres strait islander people first
  • 00:13:22
    nation people are treated in this
  • 00:13:23
    country and
  • 00:13:25
    until we get to a point where government
  • 00:13:28
    is prepared to acknowledge that yes
  • 00:13:30
    that's what is happening and
  • 00:13:33
    take action um
  • 00:13:36
    i think that that's going to persist and
  • 00:13:38
    and i think that
  • 00:13:40
    um state and com and the
  • 00:13:43
    commonwealth government would like it to
  • 00:13:44
    persist in its current form
  • 00:13:46
    and so in answer to the question of uh
  • 00:13:49
    is there change to come i think
  • 00:13:51
    that there is the potential for change
  • 00:13:53
    to come but um it
  • 00:13:54
    it would take a substantial movement
  • 00:13:58
    and the the support that we've had
  • 00:14:01
    through the black
  • 00:14:02
    lives matters campaigns in australia
  • 00:14:06
    could be converted to political power
  • 00:14:10
    if for instance every one of those
  • 00:14:11
    people that attended a black lives
  • 00:14:13
    matter rally
  • 00:14:14
    wrote to their local member and said i
  • 00:14:17
    will not vote for your party unless it
  • 00:14:19
    does something
  • 00:14:20
    uh substantial to address the systemic
  • 00:14:23
    racism
  • 00:14:24
    against people of color in this country
  • 00:14:28
    and i don't know whether people are
  • 00:14:31
    committed enough to to write to their
  • 00:14:32
    local member and say that but
  • 00:14:34
    you know if it's just us uh and our
  • 00:14:37
    three percent
  • 00:14:38
    uh saying the things that we've been
  • 00:14:40
    saying for the last 30 years
  • 00:14:42
    i don't think we can force that change
  • 00:14:44
    if those people who have
  • 00:14:46
    shown their support and their
  • 00:14:48
    unwillingness to accept
  • 00:14:49
    the the system as it is uh come along
  • 00:14:52
    with us
  • 00:14:53
    well then uh i think there is potential
  • 00:14:55
    for some change dean
  • 00:15:01
    tony talks about the systemic racism and
  • 00:15:04
    we can
  • 00:15:05
    look at judges who make decisions are
  • 00:15:07
    products of a
  • 00:15:08
    society police officers who engage
  • 00:15:12
    in in conduct that is questionable
  • 00:15:15
    and and inappropriate are products of
  • 00:15:18
    society
  • 00:15:19
    i was wondering what your thoughts are
  • 00:15:21
    about how
  • 00:15:23
    we go about addressing the attitudes
  • 00:15:25
    more broadly in the community
  • 00:15:27
    how do from your perspective how do we
  • 00:15:29
    tackle that racism
  • 00:15:30
    how do we change people's perspectives
  • 00:15:33
    more broadly
  • 00:15:37
    this is 2020.
  • 00:15:41
    and by the way i've been in this country
  • 00:15:45
    so far for 20 22 years and one day from
  • 00:15:48
    today
  • 00:15:50
    yes came to australia june 1998 26th of
  • 00:15:54
    june
  • 00:15:55
    and yesterday was my 22nd years
  • 00:15:59
    of living here and
  • 00:16:05
    these 22 good years what i have seen
  • 00:16:09
    so far have been a progress that is
  • 00:16:11
    worthwhile
  • 00:16:12
    to realize and the australian community
  • 00:16:15
    been working so hard i'm talking about
  • 00:16:17
    the australian community
  • 00:16:19
    but what in the parliament has
  • 00:16:25
    what's in the parliament house do not
  • 00:16:27
    represent
  • 00:16:28
    us none of them prime minister
  • 00:16:33
    does he like me no black man like me no
  • 00:16:36
    hell no
  • 00:16:36
    that's why he he basically condoned what
  • 00:16:39
    the police
  • 00:16:41
    said you know or say there's no systemic
  • 00:16:44
    racism or say well the police officer
  • 00:16:47
    had a
  • 00:16:48
    bad day how could he have a bad day when
  • 00:16:50
    you are a responsible person
  • 00:16:52
    you see there is no responsible
  • 00:16:55
    parliament each of them
  • 00:16:56
    will never take responsibility for what
  • 00:16:58
    they say or what they do
  • 00:17:00
    their promises have been empty for me
  • 00:17:04
    i just say it as a black man all i got
  • 00:17:06
    to do is
  • 00:17:07
    i just got a ticket i would take this
  • 00:17:10
    racism i'm not going to stop them from
  • 00:17:11
    doing it
  • 00:17:12
    they've been practicing it like a
  • 00:17:14
    football game
  • 00:17:15
    and they've been they have upper hands
  • 00:17:18
    and let them do it
  • 00:17:20
    let them do it i just think that it's
  • 00:17:23
    okay
  • 00:17:24
    if i die eventually or any other people
  • 00:17:27
    die like
  • 00:17:27
    george george george floyd or
  • 00:17:30
    indigenous brothers are being locked up
  • 00:17:32
    incarcerated it's like
  • 00:17:34
    we have a concentration camp being built
  • 00:17:37
    in a
  • 00:17:38
    country and if
  • 00:17:42
    a black child died i would actually
  • 00:17:45
    i'm quite happy to even
  • 00:17:49
    film it keep it keep it on and then let
  • 00:17:51
    the police i won't even persecute the
  • 00:17:52
    person that
  • 00:17:53
    who who could kill these black people
  • 00:17:56
    because they get a ticket they got a
  • 00:17:58
    license
  • 00:17:59
    when they go to court the court doesn't
  • 00:18:01
    do much attached to it
  • 00:18:03
    all this man going to get is basically
  • 00:18:05
    nothing
  • 00:18:06
    you're going to get a slapping arrest
  • 00:18:07
    maybe you're going to flee mental
  • 00:18:08
    illness
  • 00:18:09
    other than that and he had a bad day a
  • 00:18:11
    bad day basically will flee the mental
  • 00:18:14
    illness or stress related but
  • 00:18:17
    why do you give a man a gun in his hand
  • 00:18:19
    and give him a taser
  • 00:18:20
    when you know he has a stress what is he
  • 00:18:23
    gonna do
  • 00:18:24
    ruin a community do something bad so i
  • 00:18:27
    don't think um
  • 00:18:28
    there is anybody in the parliament house
  • 00:18:30
    there that i would relied upon and say
  • 00:18:32
    that i would bought for them i'm not
  • 00:18:34
    going to vote
  • 00:18:34
    for none of them these this election
  • 00:18:37
    what i will do
  • 00:18:38
    basically is um i'll put my boats on my
  • 00:18:42
    ass where they
  • 00:18:43
    belong but i'm not boarding for none of
  • 00:18:44
    them what is
  • 00:18:46
    what they're gonna do nothing so i don't
  • 00:18:49
    have a trust
  • 00:18:50
    in a political system at this stage
  • 00:18:52
    until there's a new politician come in
  • 00:18:54
    but most of them being diagnosed in the
  • 00:18:56
    parliament house
  • 00:18:57
    they've been there for 20 10 years 15
  • 00:18:59
    years and doing the same calculated
  • 00:19:01
    crime
  • 00:19:02
    against black fellows that's what i'm
  • 00:19:04
    saying so
  • 00:19:06
    i don't agree i don't believe about tony
  • 00:19:09
    say that the change
  • 00:19:10
    may come if it may not come this is
  • 00:19:13
    you just becoming the first aboriginal
  • 00:19:16
    shield qc this is 2020.
  • 00:19:20
    so i don't think there's any much will
  • 00:19:21
    change all we got to do is just keep
  • 00:19:23
    working hard
  • 00:19:24
    doing the best we can do to help
  • 00:19:26
    everybody that leave
  • 00:19:27
    among us and we're not going to i don't
  • 00:19:30
    think tony gonna stop
  • 00:19:31
    doing that i'll do the same thing but in
  • 00:19:34
    term of looking at
  • 00:19:35
    the other man the other side he's i'm
  • 00:19:37
    not expecting anything much from that
  • 00:19:39
    person
  • 00:19:40
    i expect worse from him i just have a
  • 00:19:42
    hopes
  • 00:19:43
    and that's all the greater thing that i
  • 00:19:44
    have carried all my shoulders
  • 00:19:46
    and i know i would tell people keep
  • 00:19:49
    hoping but
  • 00:19:50
    otherwise the government is not there to
  • 00:19:51
    answer any it's not there to
  • 00:19:54
    give us any answers tony
  • 00:19:58
    one of the conversations that's flowed
  • 00:20:00
    from
  • 00:20:01
    the attention to black black lives
  • 00:20:04
    matter and the spotlight coming on
  • 00:20:06
    a lot more broadly onto
  • 00:20:09
    aboriginal deaths in custody are
  • 00:20:11
    concepts of justice reinvestment
  • 00:20:13
    and the notion of defunding the police
  • 00:20:16
    and i wondered if you could share your
  • 00:20:17
    thoughts on
  • 00:20:18
    those strategies around how we should be
  • 00:20:22
    approaching things like policing
  • 00:20:26
    it's an interesting discussion that's
  • 00:20:29
    been having
  • 00:20:30
    that's been happening around the notion
  • 00:20:32
    of defunding the police it's become
  • 00:20:35
    a catch cry for holding the
  • 00:20:39
    police forces around the world to
  • 00:20:41
    account and um
  • 00:20:42
    it i think it frightens some people
  • 00:20:44
    because they think
  • 00:20:46
    it means we will have no police
  • 00:20:49
    but but what is intended by that
  • 00:20:51
    statement that
  • 00:20:52
    catch cry defund the police is that
  • 00:20:56
    that the funding to the police
  • 00:20:59
    is is largely taken away and
  • 00:21:02
    directed towards community-based
  • 00:21:06
    community-led
  • 00:21:08
    early intervention projects
  • 00:21:12
    that will help community health and help
  • 00:21:15
    community
  • 00:21:16
    strength so that there isn't the need
  • 00:21:19
    for the current model of of
  • 00:21:22
    community safety that we have where um
  • 00:21:25
    communities are left
  • 00:21:26
    to fend for themselves and when people
  • 00:21:28
    make mistakes then then
  • 00:21:30
    they get to feel the full force of the
  • 00:21:31
    law people are saying well that that
  • 00:21:33
    model's not working
  • 00:21:35
    and it's certainly not working in
  • 00:21:36
    australia um
  • 00:21:39
    because we we know that the
  • 00:21:42
    incarceration rate of
  • 00:21:45
    of indigenous people is is going through
  • 00:21:47
    the roof um
  • 00:21:49
    we know that it's continued to go up
  • 00:21:53
    since the
  • 00:21:54
    recommendations in the in the royal
  • 00:21:56
    commission into aboriginal and ireland
  • 00:21:57
    to death in custody was handed down in
  • 00:21:59
    1991
  • 00:22:00
    and it doesn't look like slowing
  • 00:22:04
    and the way in which we are going about
  • 00:22:06
    trying to address
  • 00:22:08
    policing and the notion of incarceration
  • 00:22:12
    as a
  • 00:22:12
    as a mechanism for community safety
  • 00:22:16
    is failing and there's
  • 00:22:20
    no more stark contrast
  • 00:22:24
    of the problems with the system
  • 00:22:27
    then the announcement last week of the
  • 00:22:30
    770 million dollar prison in grafton
  • 00:22:35
    in an area which is largely populated by
  • 00:22:38
    aboriginal people and we know
  • 00:22:40
    that the the a large percentage of that
  • 00:22:42
    population
  • 00:22:43
    the prison population some 1700
  • 00:22:46
    prisoners are reportedly the largest in
  • 00:22:48
    australia
  • 00:22:48
    will be aboriginal people from the north
  • 00:22:51
    coast of new south wales
  • 00:22:52
    it's a very sad day the
  • 00:22:55
    the company that has the
  • 00:22:58
    the contract to service and run that
  • 00:23:02
    jail is serco
  • 00:23:03
    a worldwide company that has contracts
  • 00:23:06
    for a whole
  • 00:23:06
    range of things including villawood and
  • 00:23:09
    that that contract to run that facility
  • 00:23:11
    for
  • 00:23:12
    20 years i think is something like 2.6
  • 00:23:14
    billion dollars
  • 00:23:16
    but we also know those of us who are
  • 00:23:19
    trying to push reform and be progressive
  • 00:23:23
    we know that
  • 00:23:24
    the the justice reinvestment program in
  • 00:23:28
    burke
  • 00:23:28
    which has been an outstanding success
  • 00:23:33
    has saved the uh the government millions
  • 00:23:36
    of dollars
  • 00:23:37
    and been done on a shoestring um
  • 00:23:40
    there have been calls for that to be
  • 00:23:42
    expanded and
  • 00:23:44
    the australian law reform commission in
  • 00:23:47
    its report that it handed down to
  • 00:23:49
    almost three years ago two and a half
  • 00:23:51
    years ago in december 2017
  • 00:23:53
    the very first recommendation that they
  • 00:23:54
    made was that
  • 00:23:56
    the the justice reinvestment programs be
  • 00:23:59
    rolled out across the country as a as a
  • 00:24:01
    mechanism for
  • 00:24:03
    redirecting money out of the
  • 00:24:07
    justice and policing
  • 00:24:10
    and incarceration model to a
  • 00:24:13
    community-led
  • 00:24:14
    community strengthening and community
  • 00:24:16
    health model
  • 00:24:19
    there is no funding for that to be
  • 00:24:20
    rolled out it would cost
  • 00:24:23
    a a minute fraction of the cost
  • 00:24:26
    of building that new jail at grafton
  • 00:24:30
    and yet burke still remains a pilot
  • 00:24:32
    project
  • 00:24:33
    some five years down the track
  • 00:24:38
    that report by the australian law reform
  • 00:24:41
    commission
  • 00:24:42
    on over-incarceration of aboriginal
  • 00:24:44
    people that came out in december 2017
  • 00:24:48
    has not even received a response from
  • 00:24:51
    the federal government
  • 00:24:53
    there has been no response from the the
  • 00:24:55
    state of new south wales
  • 00:24:58
    and we know
  • 00:25:01
    that the justice reinvestment programs
  • 00:25:04
    work yet the
  • 00:25:08
    the model that we're locked into in this
  • 00:25:10
    country is one
  • 00:25:12
    where people are locked up in jails
  • 00:25:16
    and their and it's a whole industry
  • 00:25:20
    which the government is party to and i
  • 00:25:22
    don't know how we break out of that
  • 00:25:27
    dang i just wanted to give you a chance
  • 00:25:28
    if you had any thoughts about what tony
  • 00:25:30
    had said in your own thoughts about
  • 00:25:32
    justice reinvestment in the concept of
  • 00:25:34
    defund the police
  • 00:25:39
    i i think that would make a great
  • 00:25:42
    uh difference to the community it will
  • 00:25:44
    make a great progress
  • 00:25:48
    but to invest in building
  • 00:25:52
    a jail to lock up human beings
  • 00:25:57
    like they some sort of stock it's
  • 00:26:00
    unacceptable
  • 00:26:01
    especially for me as a member of african
  • 00:26:05
    community
  • 00:26:06
    general as australian in general as a
  • 00:26:09
    member of
  • 00:26:11
    um humane society i call it humane
  • 00:26:14
    society
  • 00:26:15
    i'm not talking about animal protection
  • 00:26:17
    society there's humane society people
  • 00:26:19
    that
  • 00:26:19
    treat human like a real human with a
  • 00:26:21
    respect with the dignity
  • 00:26:23
    okay shouldn't i came to this country
  • 00:26:27
    aboriginal people have never get
  • 00:26:30
    what they call a dignity it's never been
  • 00:26:32
    recognized that's one thing
  • 00:26:34
    to put aside for me the jail that
  • 00:26:37
    they're building
  • 00:26:38
    i know they'll be putting more african
  • 00:26:41
    in
  • 00:26:41
    more sudanese in it i know that and of
  • 00:26:44
    course
  • 00:26:45
    talking about bella wood which is funded
  • 00:26:47
    i
  • 00:26:49
    a sierra leone man it's a surrendering
  • 00:26:51
    man was murdered
  • 00:26:52
    two years ago today i represented that
  • 00:26:55
    man
  • 00:26:55
    but i haven't been received i haven't
  • 00:26:57
    been given a single page of paper
  • 00:26:59
    just to say how did he die because of
  • 00:27:02
    so-called
  • 00:27:03
    is controlling that so if i don't know
  • 00:27:06
    how these men die the family don't know
  • 00:27:08
    how he died
  • 00:27:10
    how would we ever know i was australian
  • 00:27:12
    exactly how did these men die
  • 00:27:14
    in general but we're never going to be
  • 00:27:16
    told because it's
  • 00:27:17
    run by so-called run by a billion dollar
  • 00:27:21
    company they're doing that
  • 00:27:22
    all i'm saying is
  • 00:27:25
    if when a sudanese person is listening
  • 00:27:28
    to this
  • 00:27:30
    they should look at it carefully and
  • 00:27:33
    said they should not let their child be
  • 00:27:34
    in that prison
  • 00:27:35
    they can find a way now aboriginal
  • 00:27:39
    community should actually look at it and
  • 00:27:41
    say that jail in grafton
  • 00:27:43
    should not even start begin with it have
  • 00:27:46
    to be sabotaged
  • 00:27:47
    by any way they need to be sabotaged we
  • 00:27:51
    we can go there and sit there when
  • 00:27:52
    they're building it and let them
  • 00:27:55
    hurt us with the greater if that that
  • 00:27:57
    position they're going to be the case
  • 00:27:58
    but it should not normal jail that we
  • 00:28:01
    need more reform
  • 00:28:02
    but yes if i have to sit in that place
  • 00:28:04
    and they have to kill me
  • 00:28:06
    so that the bill will jail yes i will do
  • 00:28:08
    it so it's long way
  • 00:28:10
    down the track but yes i will force that
  • 00:28:13
    generally
  • 00:28:14
    because unless they put their children
  • 00:28:16
    in there
  • 00:28:17
    but they never put their children in
  • 00:28:18
    there they put other children in there
  • 00:28:20
    and destroying youth is a problem
  • 00:28:24
    youth shouldn't be going to jail no
  • 00:28:26
    child should ever go to jail
  • 00:28:27
    but those children there they have
  • 00:28:29
    mothers and their parents
  • 00:28:31
    i think their parents and their mothers
  • 00:28:33
    and their and their general
  • 00:28:34
    friends whether you're white or black
  • 00:28:36
    they should go and sit in their jail and
  • 00:28:38
    grab them that the government is
  • 00:28:39
    building
  • 00:28:40
    which should stop it by enemy let us go
  • 00:28:43
    to jail maybe it would be good idea for
  • 00:28:45
    us to be locked up in that place
  • 00:28:47
    because enough is enough building jail
  • 00:28:48
    forward we need to build society not
  • 00:28:50
    cages
  • 00:28:52
    and my view is yes justice reversement
  • 00:28:55
    reinvestment is important
  • 00:28:57
    it's important not taking money away
  • 00:28:59
    from the police
  • 00:29:00
    who need the police who who who need to
  • 00:29:02
    please that
  • 00:29:04
    that have people we don't need those
  • 00:29:07
    people
  • 00:29:07
    we need the proper police officers the
  • 00:29:09
    one who understand the community
  • 00:29:11
    so yes some of them have to lose their
  • 00:29:13
    jobs
  • 00:29:15
    and if you get to lose your job because
  • 00:29:16
    you've done something wrong
  • 00:29:18
    and then that's okay for me you didn't
  • 00:29:20
    do anything right
  • 00:29:21
    but yeah how can we move the community
  • 00:29:23
    forward when we know the money is
  • 00:29:25
    sitting there and you're going to be
  • 00:29:26
    reinvested into
  • 00:29:28
    a cages no i can't do that i will even
  • 00:29:30
    refuse to pay tax at
  • 00:29:32
    all if the jail is going to be funded
  • 00:29:35
    for my money the money that i work hard
  • 00:29:37
    for especially
  • 00:29:39
    soon and his kid's going to go to jail
  • 00:29:40
    no i refuse and i tell
  • 00:29:43
    i'm going to say that i know we all
  • 00:29:44
    should do it if that's the case is
  • 00:29:46
    because your dollar should not be used
  • 00:29:48
    to murder somebody else
  • 00:29:50
    i'll just pick up on one point she made
  • 00:29:52
    there which is important
  • 00:29:54
    and that's about the need to find
  • 00:29:57
    alternatives for young people so they
  • 00:29:59
    don't end up in prison yeah i just
  • 00:30:00
    wonder if you could share your thoughts
  • 00:30:02
    from your work your experience about the
  • 00:30:04
    sorts of strategies
  • 00:30:05
    that do work that we should be using to
  • 00:30:08
    ensure that young people don't end up in
  • 00:30:10
    prison fair enough i
  • 00:30:11
    i don't think they're the solution for
  • 00:30:13
    youth in this country
  • 00:30:15
    i know i can fix it i can fix the
  • 00:30:17
    problem i don't need money to fix the
  • 00:30:19
    problem with youth
  • 00:30:21
    all i need is a consent from the
  • 00:30:24
    government or their parent
  • 00:30:26
    i can take them for a camping for a camp
  • 00:30:28
    even indigenous boys that are not
  • 00:30:30
    initiated because they're not men
  • 00:30:32
    they're acting like boys they don't know
  • 00:30:35
    responsibilities
  • 00:30:36
    it's the reason why they do all kind of
  • 00:30:38
    bad thing
  • 00:30:39
    so is our sudanese and other african
  • 00:30:42
    community
  • 00:30:43
    give those responsibilities to me i
  • 00:30:45
    don't need to be a lawyer
  • 00:30:47
    i can be a better social worker unpaid i
  • 00:30:49
    can do that job
  • 00:30:50
    but these kids they don't have
  • 00:30:54
    a guide the police is on their heels
  • 00:30:58
    24 7 because they have to they are
  • 00:31:00
    basically
  • 00:31:02
    what do i say lost children if you're a
  • 00:31:04
    lost child
  • 00:31:05
    like me when i was a kid didn't know
  • 00:31:06
    what to do why does a man with a gun
  • 00:31:08
    have to follow me
  • 00:31:10
    around to lock me up because i did
  • 00:31:12
    something
  • 00:31:13
    silly why do i have to be i
  • 00:31:16
    have to be so important when i'm
  • 00:31:18
    actually a silly kid
  • 00:31:20
    acting something doing something so
  • 00:31:22
    silly that i can be slapping my finger
  • 00:31:24
    but no our kids go to jail for basically
  • 00:31:27
    swearing out the police
  • 00:31:29
    i'm just telling you the truth i don't
  • 00:31:30
    need to be in this country
  • 00:31:32
    i said before there's no need of
  • 00:31:34
    bringing
  • 00:31:35
    refugees here to this country when you
  • 00:31:38
    haven't solved the problem of these
  • 00:31:40
    people
  • 00:31:41
    especially the indigenous people if you
  • 00:31:42
    haven't resolved that problem
  • 00:31:44
    why bringing a man in here who who
  • 00:31:46
    basically doesn't need it
  • 00:31:47
    somebody else needed so that had to be
  • 00:31:50
    the first step
  • 00:31:50
    indigenous people children
  • 00:31:54
    the first nation they have to be
  • 00:31:56
    comfortable they want
  • 00:31:58
    they're the one that need to welcome us
  • 00:31:59
    here as refugee
  • 00:32:02
    and if the world come out here we can
  • 00:32:04
    then take on their culture learn the
  • 00:32:06
    process
  • 00:32:07
    but they have not given a chance to even
  • 00:32:10
    to
  • 00:32:10
    teach us who are they their language
  • 00:32:12
    like today tony just told me
  • 00:32:15
    you say you know you know in my language
  • 00:32:16
    mean the same thing
  • 00:32:18
    i could have learned more from him but i
  • 00:32:19
    didn't have that opportunity to even sit
  • 00:32:21
    with an elderly
  • 00:32:23
    indigenous person in general so our kids
  • 00:32:26
    they're just gonna be in the same boat
  • 00:32:28
    in general enough is enough
  • 00:32:30
    no mojo we are families
  • 00:32:35
    and we can't take children away from
  • 00:32:37
    their families enough is enough in my
  • 00:32:39
    view
  • 00:32:41
    tony you um were heavily involved as
  • 00:32:45
    um in the dundale royal commission
  • 00:32:48
    which put a spotlight on the treatment
  • 00:32:51
    of indigenous young people
  • 00:32:53
    and in a way revisited a lot of the
  • 00:32:55
    issues that were looked at in the royal
  • 00:32:56
    commission
  • 00:32:57
    into aboriginal deaths in custody and i
  • 00:33:00
    was wondering if you could share
  • 00:33:01
    some of the reflections from that
  • 00:33:03
    experience
  • 00:33:05
    about your thoughts on how we could
  • 00:33:08
    better deal with
  • 00:33:09
    uh issues around indigenous youth and
  • 00:33:12
    particularly alternatives to prison and
  • 00:33:13
    the sorts of treatment
  • 00:33:15
    we saw that led to that royal commission
  • 00:33:18
    [Music]
  • 00:33:21
    firstly one of the things that was
  • 00:33:25
    very obvious to all that were involved
  • 00:33:28
    in the
  • 00:33:29
    northern territory royal commission into
  • 00:33:32
    the protection and detention of children
  • 00:33:34
    is that all around the northern
  • 00:33:36
    territory
  • 00:33:39
    elders parents communities
  • 00:33:43
    were crying out for the opportunity to
  • 00:33:47
    take care of their kids
  • 00:33:49
    to be put in a position where they could
  • 00:33:52
    provide better circumstances for their
  • 00:33:54
    kids give them things to do
  • 00:33:56
    teach them their their law and custom
  • 00:34:01
    give them direction and
  • 00:34:04
    they were very confident that if they
  • 00:34:06
    were able to do that
  • 00:34:09
    then um that would have a big effect on
  • 00:34:12
    the
  • 00:34:13
    uh number of kids who were
  • 00:34:16
    having interactions with the police
  • 00:34:20
    they told us that
  • 00:34:23
    they had been able to do a lot of things
  • 00:34:26
    through their community organizations
  • 00:34:28
    but
  • 00:34:29
    um after the the first the intervention
  • 00:34:32
    in the northern territory and
  • 00:34:34
    and then the defunding of aboriginal
  • 00:34:37
    organizations and the
  • 00:34:38
    funding of not other non-government
  • 00:34:41
    organizations non-aboriginal
  • 00:34:43
    non-government organizations to deliver
  • 00:34:45
    services to their communities
  • 00:34:48
    they lost the capacity to do that type
  • 00:34:50
    of work
  • 00:34:54
    we heard some evidence during that raw
  • 00:34:56
    commission from
  • 00:34:59
    from people here in sydney from shane
  • 00:35:01
    phillips and
  • 00:35:02
    superintendent luke freudenstein from
  • 00:35:05
    the
  • 00:35:06
    clean slate without prejudice program in
  • 00:35:11
    redfern and they talked about the great
  • 00:35:14
    success that they had
  • 00:35:15
    had in bringing the community the
  • 00:35:18
    aboriginal community and the police
  • 00:35:20
    together so that they were operating
  • 00:35:24
    as members of the same community
  • 00:35:28
    participating in mentoring programs
  • 00:35:30
    attending boxing sessions in the morning
  • 00:35:33
    and and the dramatic effect that had on
  • 00:35:36
    the
  • 00:35:37
    the crime rate uh in that community
  • 00:35:41
    um and one of the things that was
  • 00:35:44
    obvious
  • 00:35:44
    to me and to everybody involved in the
  • 00:35:47
    northern territory i think is that
  • 00:35:50
    that type of change to
  • 00:35:53
    the way in which policing is undertaken
  • 00:35:57
    needs to be driven from the top without
  • 00:36:00
    the superintendent of that local area
  • 00:36:03
    command
  • 00:36:04
    saying to his officers particular
  • 00:36:07
    behaviors were not going to be accepted
  • 00:36:10
    that the things were going to be done
  • 00:36:12
    differently that
  • 00:36:13
    they were going to talk to um the
  • 00:36:15
    members of their
  • 00:36:16
    aboriginal torres strait islander
  • 00:36:18
    community with us with respect
  • 00:36:20
    and treat treat people humanely and and
  • 00:36:23
    try and be
  • 00:36:24
    part of the community without that being
  • 00:36:27
    driven from the top
  • 00:36:28
    there wasn't going to be any change and
  • 00:36:31
    one of the real dilemmas in in the
  • 00:36:33
    northern territory was how to convince
  • 00:36:36
    those at the top that they really needed
  • 00:36:38
    to drive that change
  • 00:36:40
    they needed to drive it through the
  • 00:36:41
    investment of funds and they needed to
  • 00:36:43
    drive
  • 00:36:44
    the change of culture which was
  • 00:36:46
    necessary for
  • 00:36:48
    um for equality to exist
  • 00:36:51
    and for for racism to be
  • 00:36:54
    defeated or at least
  • 00:36:58
    suppressed but you know
  • 00:37:02
    we would be in the hearing rooms at the
  • 00:37:06
    in darwin and you could
  • 00:37:10
    50 meters from where the hearings were
  • 00:37:12
    hearing rooms were
  • 00:37:13
    you could see an old aboriginal man
  • 00:37:17
    having his sitting down under a tree
  • 00:37:19
    having a quiet drink
  • 00:37:20
    and the police would come along and pour
  • 00:37:21
    his alcohol out and
  • 00:37:23
    and make him leave the city
  • 00:37:26
    but that afternoon or that evening you
  • 00:37:30
    would see
  • 00:37:31
    backpackers walking down the main street
  • 00:37:34
    of
  • 00:37:35
    down mitchell street in darwin drunk
  • 00:37:38
    drinking on the streets carrying on
  • 00:37:42
    being noisy and the police had waved to
  • 00:37:44
    them there you go
  • 00:37:46
    and and when the when the the racism
  • 00:37:50
    is that deep and systemic where those
  • 00:37:54
    two things can coexist
  • 00:37:56
    it's there's not going to be any change
  • 00:37:58
    unless the the
  • 00:38:00
    those at the top are made accountable
  • 00:38:03
    and
  • 00:38:03
    and so you know um in new south wales
  • 00:38:06
    you you would want
  • 00:38:07
    that requirement that to be written into
  • 00:38:12
    the police act so that one of the
  • 00:38:14
    functions of the commissioner is to
  • 00:38:15
    ensure
  • 00:38:16
    that to the extent that racism exists
  • 00:38:19
    within the new south wales police force
  • 00:38:20
    all steps are taken to
  • 00:38:22
    eradicate that racism it doesn't exist
  • 00:38:25
    in in the legislation as it stands but
  • 00:38:27
    that's
  • 00:38:28
    that's how that's the level it needs to
  • 00:38:29
    be done it
  • 00:38:32
    so there's a lot of observations um
  • 00:38:36
    you know i could speak about we we it
  • 00:38:39
    was a
  • 00:38:40
    12-month process but
  • 00:38:46
    with a little bit of hindsight i think
  • 00:38:47
    that's the most lasting
  • 00:38:50
    observation i can make is that
  • 00:38:53
    while there are there are hundreds and
  • 00:38:57
    perhaps thousands of people who are
  • 00:39:00
    invested in trying to
  • 00:39:01
    reform the justice system to try and
  • 00:39:05
    reduce the incarceration rates to
  • 00:39:07
    protect people
  • 00:39:09
    from brutality to ensure that
  • 00:39:14
    the deaths are properly investigated
  • 00:39:20
    we can we can work
  • 00:39:23
    for another 10 years or in 20 or 30
  • 00:39:26
    years
  • 00:39:27
    but the change won't come unless there
  • 00:39:29
    is some commitment to
  • 00:39:31
    having a different society from at the
  • 00:39:34
    top
  • 00:39:36
    i'm really mindful that we're almost out
  • 00:39:38
    of time so
  • 00:39:40
    i actually just wondered i know this is
  • 00:39:42
    a big question tony but you talk about
  • 00:39:44
    the need to change
  • 00:39:46
    society fundamentally and and deng
  • 00:39:48
    spoken about that as well that there
  • 00:39:50
    needs to be something that gives us
  • 00:39:52
    as you said dang hope that we have to
  • 00:39:54
    have something that will do that i just
  • 00:39:56
    wonder i know you've thought really
  • 00:39:57
    deeply
  • 00:39:58
    about notions of treaty or treaties
  • 00:40:02
    is that the sort of thing that we need
  • 00:40:04
    and how would something like that
  • 00:40:06
    help to make changes at sort of at
  • 00:40:09
    fundamental issues like the criminal
  • 00:40:12
    justice system issues we've been talking
  • 00:40:14
    about today
  • 00:40:16
    one of the deep uh problems that we have
  • 00:40:22
    in australia is a almost a
  • 00:40:25
    total absence of respect for
  • 00:40:28
    uh for first nations people and our
  • 00:40:31
    connection to our country
  • 00:40:33
    and we saw that in the destruction of
  • 00:40:36
    the jookin caves
  • 00:40:38
    um with the in the pilbara by uh by rio
  • 00:40:41
    tinto
  • 00:40:42
    and we see that uh a time and time again
  • 00:40:46
    um what aboriginal
  • 00:40:49
    a lot of aboriginal and torres strait
  • 00:40:51
    islander people are seeking is some
  • 00:40:53
    level of
  • 00:40:54
    empowerment and control over our own
  • 00:40:57
    lives and
  • 00:40:58
    i saw a study a number of years ago
  • 00:41:00
    which
  • 00:41:01
    talked about the mental health impact of
  • 00:41:04
    long-term disempowerment
  • 00:41:06
    and how once a person is is placed into
  • 00:41:11
    had all their power stripped away from
  • 00:41:12
    them that that that
  • 00:41:15
    over time causes grave mental health
  • 00:41:18
    issues and
  • 00:41:19
    i i just have this uh sense that
  • 00:41:23
    whilst treaties are not a an answer to
  • 00:41:26
    all problems if we were
  • 00:41:29
    given the respect to allow us to
  • 00:41:32
    self-govern
  • 00:41:34
    to allow us to make decisions about
  • 00:41:37
    how our children are protected to allow
  • 00:41:39
    us to make decisions about how our
  • 00:41:41
    country is protected
  • 00:41:43
    then i think that that would go a long
  • 00:41:46
    way to changing the relationship
  • 00:41:48
    um between us and the rest of australia
  • 00:41:52
    so that rather than being seen as
  • 00:41:55
    something that
  • 00:41:56
    is something that is the other and that
  • 00:41:58
    needs to the in
  • 00:42:00
    that the everybody else needs to be
  • 00:42:02
    protected from
  • 00:42:04
    that we're a self-sufficient thriving
  • 00:42:07
    entity on our own or entities on our own
  • 00:42:10
    um
  • 00:42:10
    big big subject i know how unfortunate
  • 00:42:13
    that we're out of time because
  • 00:42:15
    i guess that's exactly the sort of
  • 00:42:16
    relationship you were talking about ding
  • 00:42:18
    that you wanted to see
  • 00:42:20
    so thank you both for your insights into
  • 00:42:22
    what is actually
  • 00:42:23
    not just a very topical issue but
  • 00:42:24
    actually one that's
  • 00:42:26
    i think takes a lot of emotion for for
  • 00:42:29
    aboriginal
  • 00:42:30
    people and for people of color to
  • 00:42:32
    actually speak about we
  • 00:42:34
    mentioned earlier that these aren't
  • 00:42:35
    statistics to us it's a lived experience
  • 00:42:38
    so
  • 00:42:38
    i really want to thank you both for your
  • 00:42:41
    wisdom around the issue and your
  • 00:42:42
    generosity with sharing your thoughts
  • 00:42:44
    with us
  • 00:42:46
    i'd also like to thank luke pearson and
  • 00:42:48
    james saunders and the team at
  • 00:42:49
    indigenous ex who curated today and our
  • 00:42:52
    hosts at the opera house for bringing
  • 00:42:53
    this panel my guests have been
  • 00:42:55
    tony mcavoy sc and deng thiak adort
  • 00:43:16
    you
タグ
  • Black Lives Matter
  • Indigenous Rights
  • Brutalidad Policial
  • Racismo Institucional
  • Reformas Judiciales
  • Sobreincarceración
  • Reinversión en Justicia
  • Desfinanciamiento de la Policía
  • Derechos Humanos
  • Comunidad Indígena