00:00:02
JUDY: BILL BURNS HAS BEEN A
00:00:03
CAREER DIPLOMAT, A PILLAR OF THE
00:00:06
STATE DEPARTMENT FOR DECADES,
00:00:09
RISING TO THE NUMBER TWO JOB,
00:00:09
DEPUTY SECRETARY, IN PRESIDENT
00:00:12
OBAMA'S SECOND TERM.
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HE'S BEEN AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA,
00:00:15
AND WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN SETTING
00:00:16
UP THE IRAN NUCLEAR DEAL.
00:00:19
BUT FOR MUCH OF THE PAST TWO
00:00:20
YEARS, HE'S WORN A DIFFERENT HAT
00:00:21
FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN -- DIRECTOR
00:00:22
OF THE
00:00:24
CIA.
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IT WAS A CHANGE OF VENUE AND
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SCENE FOR HIM, BUT NOT OF
00:00:28
MISSION AS HE SEES IT.
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AND WITH A WORLD FULL OF DIRECT
00:00:33
AND URGENT CHALLENGES, THESE ARE
00:00:34
NOT QUIET DAYS AT THE CIA.
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I MET DIRECTOR BURNS THIS
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MORNING AT THE SPRAWLING CIA
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HEADQUARTERS IN NORTHERN
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VIRGINIA FOR A RARE INTERVIEW.
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DIRECTOR BILL BURNS, THANK YOU
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VERY MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.
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YOU'VE BEEN IN THIS JOB FOR THE
00:00:50
LAST TWO YEARS.
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AS YOU REFLECT ON IT, IS THIS
00:00:54
COUNTRY SAFER, MORE SECURE, DO
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YOU THINK, THAN WHEN YOU TOOK
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OFFICE, OR NOT?
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DIR. BURNS: I HOPE THAT'S THE
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CASE.
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AND WE CERTAINLY WORKED VERY
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HARD AT CIA AROUND THE WORLD TO
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TRY AND HELP KEEP AMERICANS SAFE
00:01:06
AS WELL.
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AND WE RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS A
00:01:10
MOMENT OF PROFOUND
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TRANSFORMATION ON THAT
00:01:12
INTERNATIONAL LANDSCAPE.
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AND THEN, YOU ADD TO THAT THE
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REVOLUTION IN TECHNOLOGY, WHICH
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IS TRANSFORMING THE WAY NOT JUST
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THE WORLD WORKS, BUT THE WAY THE
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INTELLIGENCE PROFESSION WORKS AS
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WELL.
00:01:25
WE SEE THE RISE OF MAJOR POWER
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COMPETITION WITH CHINA AND WITH
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RUSSIA, AND THEN CONTINUING
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CHALLENGES OF TERRORISM AND
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OTHER KINDS OF PROBLEMS AROUND
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THE WORLD, TOO.
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IT'S NEVER DULL.
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WE HAVE OUR HANDS FULL, BUT I'M
00:01:40
DEEPLY PROUD OF THE WORK THAT
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THE CIA IS DOING ON ALL OF THOSE
00:01:42
ISSUES.
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JUDY: LET'S TALK ABOUT UKRAINE.
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RIGHT NOW, VLADIMIR PUTIN IS
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GIVING EVERY INDICATION HE'S NOT
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BACKING DOWN.
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HE'S GOING TO STICK WITH THIS
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WAR OF ATTRITION AS LONG AS HE
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POSSIBLY CAN, THAT NOTHING WILL
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DETER HIM.
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IS HE RIGHT?
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DIR. BURNS: NO, I THINK HE'S
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WRONG.
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I THINK HE'S WRONG IN THAT BET,
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JUST AS HE WAS WRONG, PROFOUNDLY
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WRONG, IN THE BET THAT HE MADE
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ON FEBRUARY 24 WHEN HE LAUNCHED
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THIS WAR.
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TACTICALLY, I THINK WHAT WE SEE,
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AT LEAST AT CIA, IS A REDUCED
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TEMPO IN FIGHTING BETWEEN THE
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TWO MILITARIES AS WINTER SETS
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IN.
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THE RUSSIAN MILITARY IS BADLY
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BATTERED RIGHT NOW.
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THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY IS
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DETERMINED TO KEEP UP THE
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PRESSURE, BUILD ON THEIR
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BATTLEFIELD SUCCESSES OF THE
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LAST SEVERAL MONTHS.
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BUT THEY ALSO NEED TIME TO REFIT
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AND RESUPPLY.
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BUT THERE'S NOTHING AT ALL
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REDUCED ABOUT THE TEMPO OF
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PUTIN'S INCREASINGLY BRUTAL
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ATTACKS AGAINST UKRAINIAN
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CIVILIANS AND UKRAINIAN CIVILIAN
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INFRASTRUCTURE.
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JUDY: BUT THE COST TO THE UNITED
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STATES, WEAPONRY, AMMUNITION,
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EUROPEANS AND WHAT THEY'RE
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SACRIFICING FOR THIS WAR TO GO
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ON.
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YOU'RE NOT CONCERNED THAT HE
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COULD OUTLAST ALL THAT?
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DIR. BURNS: I DON'T
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UNDERESTIMATE FOR A MOMENT THE
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BURDENS, THE CHALLENGES THAT
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THIS WAR POSES FOR UKRAINIANS,
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FIRST AND FOREMOST, BUT FOR ALL
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OF US WHO SUPPORT UKRAINE.
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BUT STRATEGICALLY, I THINK IN
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MANY WAYS, PUTIN'S WAR HAS THUS
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FAR BEEN A FAILURE FOR RUSSIA.
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THE RUSSIAN MILITARY HAS
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PERFORMED POORLY AND SUFFERED
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HUGE LOSSES.
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THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY HAS SUFFERED
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LONG-TERM DAMAGE.
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MOST OF THE PROGRESS THAT THE
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RUSSIAN MIDDLE CLASS HAS MADE
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OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS IS BEING
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DESTROYED.
00:03:25
I THINK RUSSIA'S REPUTATION HAS
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BEEN BADLY UNDERMINED AND ITS
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WEAKNESSES HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.
00:03:30
THE RUSSIAN POPULATION SEEMS
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INCREASINGLY UNEASY ABOUT THE
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COSTS OF WAR AS WELL.
00:03:34
THE FACT THAT PUTIN, WHEN HE
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LAUNCHED AT THE END OF
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SEPTEMBER A PARTIAL
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MOBILIZATION, THE REALITY WAS
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THAT MORE RUSSIANS OF MILITARY
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AGE FLED THE COUNTRY THAN HE WAS
00:03:44
ABLE TO ROUND UP AND SEND TO THE
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FRONT.
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SO HE'S GOT A LOT OF CHALLENGES
00:03:48
AS WELL.
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JUDY: THAT ALL MAY BE THE CASE,
00:03:50
BUT HE SEEMS PERFECTLY SECURE.
00:03:54
I MEAN, ALL THOSE ECONOMIC HITS
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THAT THE RUSSIANS TOOK, THE
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SANCTIONS, THE COUNTRY'S STILL
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CHARGING ALONG.
00:03:59
IT'S STILL FUNCTIONING.
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DO YOU SEE ANY REAL THREAT TO
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HIS POSITION?
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DIR. BURNS: I THINK THERE'S AN
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UNEASE ACROSS THE RUSSIAN
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POPULATION RIGHT NOW.
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THERE'S UNEASE FROM SOME MORE
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HAWKISH CRITICS WHO SEE THE
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CONDUCT OF THE WAR AS BEING
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FLAWED.
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AND THEN YOU HAVE THE UNEASE I
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MENTIONED BEFORE OF, YOU KNOW,
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LOTS OF RUSSIANS OF MILITARY
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AGE, YOUNG RUSSIAN MEN FLEEING
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THE COUNTRY AS WELL.
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I'M NOT TRYING TO SUGGEST THAT
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THAT POSES AN IMMEDIATE THREAT
00:04:31
TO HIS GRIP ON POWER.
00:04:32
HE'S CREATED A VERY SECURE AND
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REPRESSIVE AUTHORITARIAN REGIME
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IN HIS EYES.
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BUT I THINK YOU'RE BEGINNING TO
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SEE INCREASING UNEASE IN RUSSIA
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ABOUT THE WAR, AND AN
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ACCUMULATION OF DAMAGE TO THE
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RUSSIAN ECONOMY AND TO RUSSIANS
00:04:49
' FUTURE, WHICH IS GOING TO
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TAKE A TOLL OVER TIME.
00:04:51
JUDY: PUTIN HAS SPOKEN ABOUT OR
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SUGGESTED THE IDEA OF
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RETALIATION.
00:04:54
WHAT ARE YOU MOST WORRIED ABOUT
00:04:57
FROM HIM, BEYOND UKRAINE?
00:04:58
DIR. BURNS: THERE'S BEEN SOME
00:05:02
VERY DANGEROUS NUCLEAR SABER
00:05:04
RATTLING BY PUTIN AND OTHERS
00:05:06
AROUND HIM HAVE DONE.
00:05:06
THAT WAS PART OF THE
00:05:07
CONVERSATION I HAD WITH ONE OF
00:05:08
MY RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE
00:05:08
COUNTERPARTS.
00:05:09
JUDY: WHERE DO YOU SEE THAT
00:05:10
GOING?
00:05:12
DIR. BURNS: WELL, I THINK THE
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SABER RATTLING IS MEANT TO
00:05:14
INTIMIDATE.
00:05:15
WE DON'T SEE ANY CLEAR EVIDENCE
00:05:15
TODAY OF PLANS TO USE TACTICAL
00:05:16
NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
00:05:19
WE'VE MADE VERY CLEAR, THE
00:05:20
PRESIDENT HAS MADE VERY CLEAR TO
00:05:25
THE RUSSIANS WHAT THE SERIOUS
00:05:25
RISKS OF THAT WOULD BE.
00:05:27
I THINK IT'S ALSO BEEN VERY
00:05:28
USEFUL THAT XI JINPING AND PRIME
00:05:34
MINISTER MODI IN INDIA HAVE ALSO
00:05:35
RAISED THEIR CONCERNS ABOUT USE
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OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS AS WELL.
00:05:37
I THINK THAT'S ALSO HAVING AN
00:05:38
IMPACT ON THE RUSSIANS.
00:05:39
JUDY: THE OTHER THING THAT WE'VE
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SEEN IN THE LAST WEEKS IS THE
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CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS,
00:05:45
MARK MILLEY, GENERAL MILLEY, IS
00:05:48
SPEAKING ABOUT WINTER MAY BE A
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TIME FOR NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN
00:05:50
UKRAINE AND RUSSIA.
00:05:54
HOW DO YOU SEE THAT?
00:05:54
DIR. BURNS: MOST CONFLICTS END
00:06:00
IN NEGOTIATIONS, BUT THAT
00:06:00
REQUIRES A SERIOUSNESS ON THE
00:06:02
PART OF THE RUSSIANS, IN THIS
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INSTANCE, THAT I DON'T THINK WE
00:06:03
SEE.
00:06:04
IT'S NOT OUR ASSESSMENT THAT THE
00:06:06
RUSSIANS ARE SERIOUS AT THIS
00:06:06
POINT ABOUT A REAL NEGOTIATION.
00:06:08
JUDY: I WANT TO BRING CHINA INTO
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THE CONVERSATION.
00:06:11
WHAT'S YOUR LEVEL OF CONCERN
00:06:12
RIGHT NOW ABOUT COOPERATION
00:06:13
BETWEEN THE RUSSIANS AND THE
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CHINESE?
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DIR. BURNS: I THINK XI JINPING
00:06:17
AND VLADIMIR PUTIN HAVE FORMED A
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PRETTY CLOSE PARTNERSHIP OVER
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RECENT YEARS.
00:06:22
A FEW WEEKS BEFORE PUTIN
00:06:23
LAUNCHED HIS INVASION IN
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UKRAINE, WHEN THEY MET AT THE
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WINTER OLYMPICS IN BEIJING, THEY
00:06:27
PROCLAIMED A FRIENDSHIP WITHOUT
00:06:28
LIMITS.
00:06:30
IT TURNS OUT THAT THERE ACTUALLY
00:06:33
ARE SOME LIMITS TO THAT
00:06:33
PARTNERSHIP, AT LEAST IN TERMS
00:06:37
OF PRESIDENT XI'S RELUCTANCE TO
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SUPPLY THE KIND OF MILITARY
00:06:40
ASSISTANCE TO PUTIN THAT HE'S
00:06:41
ASKED FOR IN THE COURSE OF THE
00:06:42
WAR IN UKRAINE.
00:06:44
SO, I WOULDN'T UNDERESTIMATE FOR
00:06:48
A MOMENT THE COMMITMENT BETWEEN
00:06:50
THE CHINESE AND RUSSIAN
00:06:52
LEADERSHIPS TO THAT PARTNERSHIP.
00:06:53
BUT IT'S BEEN INTERESTING TO
00:06:54
WATCH THE CHINESE LEADERSHIP'S
00:06:55
REACTION TO THE WAR IN UKRAINE.
00:06:56
I DON'T THINK ANY FOREIGN LEADER
00:06:57
HAS PAID MORE CAREFUL ATTENTION
00:07:01
TO THAT WAR AND RUSSIA'S POOR
00:07:02
MILITARY PERFORMANCE THAN XI
00:07:03
JINPING HAS, AS HE THINKS ABOUT
00:07:05
HIS OWN AMBITIONS IN TAIWAN AND
00:07:06
ELSEWHERE.
00:07:09
JUDY: DO YOU BELIEVE THERE ARE
00:07:10
NEAR-TERM AMBITIONS ON HIS PART
00:07:14
TO TAKE OVER TAIWAN?
00:07:16
AND I MEAN THIS NEXT YEAR OR SO.
00:07:19
DIR. BURNS: I'M NOT SURE I WOULD
00:07:22
MEASURE IT IN TERMS OF MONTHS OR
00:07:23
A YEAR, BUT I WOULD NOT
00:07:23
UNDERESTIMATE FOR A MOMENT, NOR
00:07:24
DO ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HERE AT
00:07:27
CIA UNDERESTIMATE HIS AMBITION
00:07:30
TO CONTROL TAIWAN.
00:07:33
IN OTHER WORDS, TO UNIFY BEIJING
00:07:33
AND TAIWAN ON THE PRC'S TERMS.
00:07:38
HE'S INSISTED PUBLICLY THAT HIS
00:07:41
PREFERENCE IS TO DO THAT BY
00:07:42
MEANS SHORT OF THE USE OF FORCE.
00:07:44
BUT WE KNOW THAT HE'S ALSO
00:07:44
INSTRUCTED HIS MILITARY
00:07:46
LEADERSHIP TO BE READY BY 2027
00:07:47
TO LAUNCH A WAR.
00:07:52
AND SO, I THINK THE HONEST
00:07:53
ANSWER IS THE FURTHER YOU GET
00:07:54
INTO THIS DECADE, THE GREATER
00:07:54
THE RISKS OF A MILITARY
00:07:55
CONFLICT.
00:07:56
JUDY: WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF
00:07:58
URGENCY ABOUT ALL THIS?
00:07:59
MY COLLEAGUE NICK SCHIFRIN SPOKE
00:08:00
THIS WEEK WITH THE HEAD OF THE
00:08:05
ENDO PACIFIC COMMAND.
00:08:06
HE SPOKE ABOUT IT BEING URGENT.
00:08:12
DIR. BURNS: I SHARE THAT SENSE
00:08:13
OF URGENCY AS WELL.
00:08:13
WE HAVE NO HIGHER PRIORITY AT
00:08:14
CIA THAN, NOT JUST TAIWAN, BUT
00:08:15
THE LONGER TERM GEOPOLITICAL
00:08:16
CHALLENGE THAT XI'S CHINA POSES.
00:08:21
AND OVER THE COURSE OF THE TWO
00:08:22
YEARS I'VE BEEN DIRECTOR,
00:08:25
WE'VE ESTABLISHED A NEW MISSION
00:08:27
CENTER, WHICH IS SORT OF THE
00:08:27
ORGANIZATIONAL BUILDING BLOCK AT
00:08:28
CIA.
00:08:29
IT'S THE ONLY SINGLE COUNTRY
00:08:30
MISSION CENTER WE HAVE FOCUSED
00:08:32
ON CHINA.
00:08:32
AND WE'VE MOVED RESOURCES,
00:08:34
PEOPLE, PRIORITY IN THAT
00:08:35
DIRECTION BECAUSE IT'S A GLOBAL
00:08:38
COMPETITION.
00:08:39
JUDY: CLEARLY, THE WORLD WAS
00:08:42
WATCHING AS THERE WERE THESE
00:08:42
UNPRECEDENTED REVOLTS IN CHINA,
00:08:44
ACROSS THE COUNTRY ABOUT COVID
00:08:45
RESTRICTIONS.
00:08:47
THOSE SEEM TO HAVE DIED DOWN
00:08:48
SOMEWHAT.
00:08:49
BUT DO YOU THINK THEY WEAKEN XI
00:08:50
JINPING?
00:08:54
DIR. BURNS: NO, I THINK HE
00:08:55
EMERGED FROM THE RECENT PARTY
00:08:56
CONGRESS HAVING CONSOLIDATED
00:08:57
POWER IN THE STRONGEST POSITION
00:08:59
OF ANY CHINESE LEADER, PROBABLY
00:09:02
SINCE MAO.
00:09:03
HAVING SAID THAT, YOU KNOW,
00:09:05
HIS LEADERSHIP IS NOT TEN FEET
00:09:06
TALL.
00:09:07
CHINA, AS WE SAW IN THE
00:09:10
EXPRESSIONS OF FRUSTRATION IN
00:09:13
THE STREET OVER ZERO-COVID
00:09:14
POLICY, AS WE SEE IN THE REALITY
00:09:17
THAT CHINA'S ECONOMIC GROWTH
00:09:17
FIGURES ARE NOW AT HISTORIC
00:09:19
LOWS, WE SEE IN THE REALITY THAT
00:09:24
GIVEN THIS CHINESE LEADERSHIP'S
00:09:27
PRIORITY FOR CONTROL AND ORDER,
00:09:29
THAT SOMETIMES COMES AT THE
00:09:29
EXPENSE OF ECONOMIC COMMON SENSE
00:09:30
AS WELL, AND THAT CAN HAVE AN
00:09:33
IMPACT ON TECHNOLOGICAL
00:09:34
INNOVATION AND EVERYTHING ELSE
00:09:35
OVER TIME.
00:09:38
JUDY: ONE OTHER QUESTION ABOUT
00:09:39
CHINA IS THEIR VERY POPULAR
00:09:40
SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM APP,
00:09:42
TIKTOK.
00:09:45
YOUR DOMESTIC COUNTERPART, THE
00:09:46
HEAD OF THE FBI, CHRIS WRAY, HAS
00:09:49
SAID IT'S A THREAT TO U.S.
00:09:49
NATIONAL SECURITY.
00:09:50
DO YOU AGREE?
00:09:52
DIR. BURNS: I DO.
00:09:54
I MEAN, I THINK IT'S A GENUINE
00:09:55
CONCERN.
00:09:58
IN THE SENSE THAT BECAUSE THE
00:10:01
PARENT COMPANY OF TIKTOK IS A
00:10:02
CHINESE COMPANY, THE CHINESE
00:10:06
GOVERNMENT IS ABLE TO INSIST
00:10:08
UPON EXTRACTING THE PRIVATE DATA
00:10:10
OF A LOT OF TIKTOK USERS IN THIS
00:10:12
COUNTRY, AND ALSO TO SHAPE THE
00:10:14
CONTENT OF WHAT GOES ON TO
00:10:19
TIKTOK AS WELL, TO SUIT THE
00:10:19
INTERESTS OF THE CHINESE
00:10:20
LEADERSHIP.
00:10:21
I THINK THOSE ARE REAL
00:10:22
CHALLENGES AND A SOURCE OF REAL
00:10:23
CONCERN.
00:10:23
JUDY: AS YOU KNOW, SOME AMERICAN
00:10:26
LAWMAKERS WANT TO BAN TIKTOK.
00:10:27
DO YOU THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA?
00:10:28
DIR. BURNS: IN MY ROLE -- THIS
00:10:37
IS WHERE IN AN INTELLIGENCE ROLE
00:10:39
I'M NOT GOING TO OFFER JUDGMENTS
00:10:40
ON THOSE KIND OF POLICY OR
00:10:41
LEGISLATIVE DECISIONS.
00:10:42
WHAT I WOULD UNDERSCORE, THOUGH,
00:10:43
IS THAT IT'S GENUINELY TROUBLING
00:10:46
TO SEE WHAT THE CHINESE
00:10:47
GOVERNMENT COULD DO TO
00:10:48
MANIPULATE TIKTOK.
00:10:50
JUDY: AND WHAT WOULD YOU
00:10:51
RECOMMEND PEOPLE TELL THEIR
00:10:54
CHILDREN OR THEIR YOUNG FRIENDS
00:10:55
ABOUT WHETHER TO USE TIKTOK?
00:10:58
DIR. BURNS: I'D BE REALLY
00:10:59
CAREFUL.
00:11:00
JUDY: YOU WANT TO SAY ANYTHING
00:11:02
MORE THAN THAT?
00:11:02
DIR. BURNS: NO.
00:11:04
REALLY CAREFUL.
00:11:05
JUDY: IRAN.
00:11:09
THESE UNPRECEDENTED COUNTRYWIDE
00:11:11
PROTESTS THAT IRAN HAS SEEN
00:11:12
AFTER THE DEATH OF A YOUNG WOMAN
00:11:17
IN POLICE CUSTODY, THE MORALITY
00:11:19
POLICE.
00:11:19
IS THE REGIME NOW IN SERIOUS
00:11:22
JEOPARDY AS A RESULT OF ALL
00:11:22
THIS?
00:11:23
DIR. BURNS: I THINK WHAT STRUCK
00:11:26
OUR ANALYSTS AT CIA IS BOTH THE
00:11:28
DURATION OF THOSE PROTESTS NOW
00:11:30
ALMOST THREE MONTHS ON AND THEIR
00:11:32
SCOPE, BECAUSE THEY SEEM TO CUT
00:11:34
ACROSS IRANIAN SOCIETY, CUT
00:11:36
ACROSS ETHNICITIES,
00:11:37
SOCIOECONOMIC GROUPS.
00:11:42
IT IS ABOUT A GROWING NUMBER OF
00:11:44
IRANIANS WHO ARE FED UP WITH
00:11:46
ECONOMIC DECAY, WITH CORRUPTION,
00:11:47
WITH THE SOCIAL RESTRICTIONS
00:11:49
THAT ESPECIALLY AFFECT URANIAN
00:11:52
WOMEN -- IRANIAN WOMEN.
00:11:57
THEY ARE FED UP WITH POLITICAL
00:11:58
OPPRESSION, FED UP WITH THE
00:11:59
DENIAL OF BASIC HUMAN DIGNITY.
00:12:02
IN THE SHORT TERM, I DON'T THINK
00:12:04
THE IRANIAN REGIME PERCEIVES
00:12:05
THAT IMMEDIATE THREAT TO ITS
00:12:06
GRIP.
00:12:07
IT STILL HAS SOME VERY PRACTICED
00:12:08
HABITS OF REPRESSION AND
00:12:08
BRUTALITY THAT IT'S CONTINUING
00:12:09
TO EMPLOY.
00:12:10
IN THE LONG TERM, THOUGH, I
00:12:12
THINK THE REALITY IS THAT THIS
00:12:13
IS AN IRANIAN REGIME DOES NOT
00:12:15
HAVE GOOD ANSWERS FOR WHAT'S ON
00:12:16
THE MINDS OF A VERY YOUNG
00:12:20
POPULATION, 70% OF WHICH TODAY
00:12:20
IS UNDER THE AGE OF 30.
00:12:22
JUDY: CAN THOSE PROTESTS
00:12:26
CONTINUE, THOUGH, GIVEN THE
00:12:27
NUMBER OF ARRESTS, THE PEOPLE
00:12:30
WHO ARE DEAD, AND NOW
00:12:30
EXECUTIONS?
00:12:33
DIR. BURNS: I THINK THEY CAN.
00:12:34
AND THAT'S BEEN A REMARKABLE
00:12:37
INDICATION OF BOTH THAT
00:12:38
FRUSTRATION THAT I MENTIONED
00:12:39
BEFORE AND ALSO THE GENUINE
00:12:40
COURAGE OF PEOPLE OUT IN THE
00:12:41
STREETS.
00:12:45
THIS HAS GONE ON FOR JUST ABOUT
00:12:46
THREE MONTHS NOW AND IT CAN
00:12:48
CONTINUE FOR SOME TIME.
00:12:49
JUDY: NOW, OF COURSE, WE SEE
00:12:51
IRAN'S INVOLVEMENT WITH THE
00:12:53
RUSSIANS IN UKRAINE USING THE
00:12:54
DRONES.
00:12:57
HOW WORRIED ARE YOU ABOUT THAT
00:12:57
RELATIONSHIP NOW? [10.
00:13:01
-- ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP NOW?
00:13:01
DIR. BURNS: QUITE WORRIED.
00:13:04
HISTORICALLY, THERE'S A LOT OF
00:13:05
MISTRUST BETWEEN RUSSIANS AND
00:13:06
IRANIANS, BUT THEY NEED EACH
00:13:07
OTHER RIGHT NOW.
00:13:09
AND WHAT'S BEGINNING TO EMERGE
00:13:10
IS AT LEAST THE BEGINNINGS OF A
00:13:13
FULL-FLEDGED DEFENSE PARTNERSHIP
00:13:14
BETWEEN RUSSIA AND IRAN, WITH
00:13:14
THE IRANIANS SUPPLYING DRONES TO
00:13:18
THE RUSSIANS, WHICH ARE KILLING
00:13:19
UKRAINIAN CIVILIANS AS WE SPEAK
00:13:21
TODAY.
00:13:23
AND THE RUSSIANS BEGINNING TO
00:13:24
LOOK AT WAYS IN WHICH
00:13:25
TECHNOLOGICALLY OR TECHNICALLY
00:13:26
THEY CAN SUPPORT THE IRANIANS,
00:13:30
WHICH POSES REAL THREATS TO
00:13:30
IRAN'S OWN NEIGHBORHOOD, TO MANY
00:13:31
OF OUR FRIENDS AND PARTNERS IN
00:13:33
IRAN'S NEIGHBORHOOD AS WELL.
00:13:36
JUDY: WHERE DO YOU SEE THAT
00:13:40
GOING, THAT LETHAL CLOSENESS OR
00:13:42
LETHAL RELATIONSHIP?
00:13:43
DIR. BURNS: I THINK IT'S ALREADY
00:13:46
HAVING AN IMPACT ON THE
00:13:49
BATTLEFIELD IN UKRAINE.
00:13:50
COSTING THE LIVES OF A LOT OF
00:13:51
INNOCENT UKRAINIANS.
00:13:51
AND I THINK IT CAN HAVE AN EVEN
00:13:53
MORE DANGEROUS IMPACT ON THE
00:13:54
MIDDLE EAST AS WELL IF IT
00:13:54
CONTINUES.
00:13:55
IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE TAKE
00:13:58
VERY SERIOUSLY.
00:13:58
JUDY: JUST A QUESTION ABOUT
00:14:01
NORTH KOREA.
00:14:02
THERE WAS ANOTHER TEST TODAY OF
00:14:06
A SOLID-STATE ENGINE MISSILE.
00:14:08
THE U.S. HAS NO LIES ON THE
00:14:10
GROUND IN THE COUNTRY, IS THAT
00:14:11
RIGHT -- HAS NO EYES ON THE
00:14:14
GROUND IN THAT COUNTRY, IS THAT
00:14:15
RIGHT?
00:14:16
[LAUGHTER]
00:14:17
NO ANSWER.
00:14:19
WHERE IS THAT HEADED?
00:14:21
WHERE DO YOU SEE THAT REGIME
00:14:22
GOING?
00:14:24
AND DO YOU SEE ANY EVIDENCE THAT
00:14:27
THE U.S. CAN HEAD OFF THE WORST
00:14:33
KIND OF ATTACK THAT THE NORTH
00:14:34
KOREANS MAY BE CAPABLE OF?
00:14:36
DIR. BURNS: I THINK WHAT WE HAVE
00:14:39
SEEN OVER THE LAST YEAR, JUST AS
00:14:40
YOU SAID, JUDY, IS QUITE
00:14:41
TROUBLING.
00:14:42
MORE THAN 50 LAUNCHES OF NORTH
00:14:43
KOREAN MISSILES OF VARIOUS
00:14:45
RANGES.
00:14:45
AND CLEARLY PREPARATIONS FOR
00:14:46
WHAT WOULD BE THE SEVENTH
00:14:48
NUCLEAR TEST BY THE NORTH KOREAN
00:14:50
REGIME AS WELL.
00:14:52
JUDY: I WANT TO ASK ABOUT YOUR
00:14:56
ROLE IN THE ADMINISTRATION.
00:14:56
PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS ASKED YOU TO
00:14:57
UNDERTAKE A NUMBER OF TRIPS
00:14:58
ABROAD.
00:14:59
YOU WERE JUST TELLING ME YOU
00:15:01
TRAVEL A LOT BECAUSE YOU WANT TO
00:15:02
STAY IN TOUCH WITH CIA PEOPLE
00:15:03
AROUND THE WORLD.
00:15:07
BUT THE PRESIDENT IS GIVING YOU
00:15:08
WHAT LOOKS TO BE DIPLOMATIC
00:15:09
RESPONSIBILITIES.
00:15:12
WHY DO YOU THINK HE'S DOING
00:15:12
THAT?
00:15:14
DIR. BURNS: OCCASIONALLY, I'M
00:15:16
ASKED TO DO THINGS IN
00:15:19
AFGHANISTAN LAST YEAR, YOU KNOW,
00:15:20
WITH REGARD TO RUSSIA, UKRAINE,
00:15:21
WHICH TAKES ADVANTAGE OF SOME OF
00:15:23
MY PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE OVER
00:15:24
THREE AND A HALF DECADES AS A AS
00:15:27
-- AS A CAREER DIPLOMAT AS WELL.
00:15:29
AND I'M ALWAYS GLAD TO DO THAT.
00:15:30
BUT IT'S ALWAYS IN SUPPORT OF
00:15:32
POLICYMAKERS.
00:15:32
IT'S NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR THAT.
00:15:36
AND I DO TRAVEL A GOOD BIT
00:15:37
OVERSEAS.
00:15:39
AND IT'S ALSO ABOUT TAKING CARE
00:15:41
OF OUR PEOPLE BECAUSE WE ASK A
00:15:42
LOT OF OUR PEOPLE AND OUR
00:15:43
FAMILIES AT CIA, ESPECIALLY
00:15:46
SINCE 9/11.
00:15:48
THEY'VE BEEN DOING SOME VERY
00:15:50
HARD JOBS IN SOME VERY HARD
00:15:51
PLACES AROUND THE WORLD.
00:15:52
SO MY MOST PROFOUND OBLIGATION
00:15:54
AS A LEADER IS TO TAKE CARE OF
00:15:55
THEM SO THEY CAN CONDUCT OUR
00:15:56
MISSION AS AN AGENCY AS
00:15:59
EFFECTIVELY AS THEY DO.
00:16:00
JUDY: LAST QUESTION.
00:16:02
DOES THE DIVISION, POLITICAL
00:16:04
DIVISION ACROSS THIS COUNTRY
00:16:04
RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS PRETTY CLEAR
00:16:09
, IN ANY WAY AFFECT THE WORK
00:16:11
THAT YOU DO?
00:16:11
DIR. BURNS: IT CAN BE A
00:16:14
CHALLENGE, TO BE HONEST, IN THE
00:16:16
SENSE THAT WE ARE AN A-
00:16:21
POLITICAL ORGANIZATION.
00:16:22
OUR JOB IS TO PROVIDE THE BEST
00:16:23
INTELLIGENCE THAT WE CAN COLLECT
00:16:24
AND ANALYZE TO THE PRESIDENT, TO
00:16:24
POLICYMAKERS, TO DISCUSS THAT
00:16:25
WITH OUR OVERSIGHT COMMITTEES IN
00:16:26
THE CONGRESS AS WELL.
00:16:29
AND TO DO THAT WITHOUT ANY
00:16:30
POLICY AGENDA, ANY WHIFF OF
00:16:31
POLITICS.
00:16:33
YOU KNOW, OVER THE YEARS, I'VE
00:16:34
WORKED FOR SIX ADMINISTRATIONS
00:16:38
OF BOTH PARTIES, AND NEVER SEEN
00:16:39
MYSELF AS A VERY PARTISAN
00:16:40
PERSON.
00:16:42
AND SO, WE WORK VERY HARD AT CIA
00:16:44
TO PLAY THINGS DOWN THE MIDDLE
00:16:46
AS WELL AND TO BE AS HONEST AND
00:16:49
STRAIGHTFORWARD AS WE CAN.
00:16:50
I'VE SEEN TOO MANY INSTANCES
00:16:54
OVER THE COURSE OF MY 40 YEARS
00:16:57
NOW ALMOST IN GOVERNMENT WHERE
00:16:58
WE GET OURSELVES IN TROUBLE AS
00:17:00
AN AGENCY AND AS A COUNTRY OF WE
00:17:01
FORGET THOSE BASIC TRUTHS THAT
00:17:05
WE NEED TO PROVIDE THE BEST
00:17:05
POSSIBLE INTELLIGENCE WE CAN
00:17:06
WITHOUT A HINT OF PARTISANSHIP
00:17:07
OR A POLICY AGENDA.
00:17:10
JUDY: CIA DIRECTOR BILL BURNS,
00:17:14
WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
00:17:16
APPRECIATE YOUR TALKING WITH US.
00:17:17
DIR. BURNS: THANKS, JUDY.
00:17:18
IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.
00:17:21
♪
