00:00:00
hi I'm Howard marks and this is how to
00:00:03
think about
00:00:04
[Music]
00:00:14
risk the title of this class is how to
00:00:17
think about risk that's an important
00:00:19
title not what to think how to think the
00:00:23
first question is what is risk risk in
00:00:26
my opinion is the ultimate test of an
00:00:28
Investor's skill the return alone
00:00:30
doesn't tell you how good a job the
00:00:32
manager did the key question is you see
00:00:36
the return you must ask how much risk
00:00:38
did the manager bear to get that return
00:00:42
now let's look at this range of managers
00:00:45
what we posit is that the market is up
00:00:47
10% or down 10% now let's look at some
00:00:51
individual managers the first one is up
00:00:54
10 when the Market's up 10 and down 10
00:00:57
when the Market's down 10 ACC lishes
00:01:00
nothing you might as well have invested
00:01:02
in an index fund that emulates the
00:01:04
performance of the market no skill no
00:01:07
value added now let's look at the second
00:01:09
one up 20 when the market goes up 10
00:01:12
down 20 when the market goes down 10 no
00:01:15
skill no value added just a lot of
00:01:18
aggressiveness what about this one up
00:01:20
five when the Market's up 10 down five
00:01:23
when the Market's down 10 again no
00:01:25
selection ability no discernment no
00:01:27
value added just defensiveness you don't
00:01:30
need help in achieving that and you sure
00:01:32
shouldn't pay a lot for it but what
00:01:34
about the next one he or she is up 15
00:01:37
when the Market's up 10 and down 10 when
00:01:40
the Market's down 10 so in other words
00:01:42
Market type losses on the downside but
00:01:45
Superior gains on the upside value added
00:01:47
what I call asymmetry does better in the
00:01:50
good times than does poorly in the bad
00:01:53
times but what about this one and I
00:01:55
think this is the most interest I think
00:01:57
maybe it characterizes Me Maybe it char
00:01:59
izes oak tree to some extent up 10 when
00:02:03
the Market's up 10 down five when the
00:02:06
Market's down 10 so Market type gains in
00:02:10
the good times I personally think that
00:02:13
performing with the market when it does
00:02:15
well is good enough and that's almost
00:02:18
all the time nobody should have to beat
00:02:21
the market when it does well but if you
00:02:24
can do that and at the same time be
00:02:26
ready to decline less when the market
00:02:29
has it down spells I think that's
00:02:32
accomplishing something very
00:02:34
[Music]
00:02:40
important I believe that risk is not
00:02:43
volatility the academics developing
00:02:46
investment Theory largely at the
00:02:47
University of Chicago in the early 60s
00:02:50
just a couple of years before I got
00:02:52
there adopted volatility as their
00:02:55
measure of risk I believe they did so
00:02:58
largely because volatility is readily
00:03:01
quantifiable and nothing else is I think
00:03:05
volatility can be an indicator of the
00:03:07
presence of risk a symptom if you will
00:03:10
but it's not risk itself so if risk is
00:03:14
not volatility then what is it and in my
00:03:17
opinion and in the real world sense risk
00:03:20
is the probability of loss I think this
00:03:23
is what most people mean when they say
00:03:25
risk and I think that this is what
00:03:27
people demand compensation for if
00:03:30
they're going to Bear it uh nobody
00:03:32
sitting around at Oak Tree says well you
00:03:35
know uh we shouldn't make that
00:03:38
investment because it might be volatile
00:03:40
or uh because it might be volatile we
00:03:43
should demand a higher return no they
00:03:45
say that about the possibility of loss
00:03:48
we're not going to make that investment
00:03:49
because the possibility of loss is too
00:03:51
high or because of the possibility of
00:03:54
loss we're going to demand a risk
00:03:56
premium in terms of the return this is
00:03:58
risk the possibility of loss now another
00:04:02
important question is is risk
00:04:05
quantifiable in advance and I believe
00:04:07
it's not like most things occurring in
00:04:10
the future risk cannot be anything
00:04:12
except a matter of opinion I was writing
00:04:15
my first memo about risk in 2006 I wrote
00:04:18
about my belief that risk is not
00:04:21
quantifiable in advance and then I hit
00:04:24
the return key and went on to the next
00:04:26
section and wrote something I had never
00:04:28
thought about before
00:04:30
my belief that risk is unquantifiable
00:04:33
even after the fact and I think this is
00:04:35
a fascinating topic uh you buy something
00:04:38
for a dollar and a year later you sell
00:04:41
it for $2 was it
00:04:44
risky and the interesting thing is that
00:04:46
you can't tell from the outcome a
00:04:49
profitable investment may or may not
00:04:52
have been risky was it a safe investment
00:04:55
that in the case of my example was sure
00:04:58
to double or was it a risky investment
00:05:02
where you got lucky in terms of the
00:05:04
outcome and as I say you can't tell from
00:05:07
the outcome the bottom line is to me
00:05:10
it's impossible to quantify risk in
00:05:13
advance or even in
00:05:22
hindsight the possibility of loss is not
00:05:24
the only form of risk there are lots of
00:05:27
forms of risk my last memo on the
00:05:29
general subject it's called risk
00:05:30
Revisited again and I talk in there
00:05:33
about 24 or 25 different forms of risk
00:05:36
some serious some facius some important
00:05:40
some less important and obscure but
00:05:42
still it comes in many forms the risk of
00:05:45
missing opportunities is another
00:05:47
important risk in other words if you
00:05:48
think about it the risk of not taking
00:05:51
enough risk another really important
00:05:54
form uh of risk I think one of the key
00:05:57
risks in investing is the chance of
00:05:59
being forced out at the bottom which is
00:06:02
a bigger mistake buying at the high and
00:06:05
seeing a decline or selling out at the
00:06:08
low and missing out on the recovery
00:06:10
clearly it's the ladder if you buy at a
00:06:13
high and you experience a decline if
00:06:17
you're able to hold throughout and not
00:06:19
lose your nerve the next high is usually
00:06:23
higher than the last High the fact that
00:06:25
you experienced a downward fluctuation
00:06:28
might have been uncomfortable for a
00:06:29
little while
00:06:30
but by the time the new high is achieved
00:06:33
you're you're you're back to to your
00:06:35
cost and more but if you sell at the
00:06:39
bottom and miss out on the subsequent
00:06:42
recovery that means you've gotten off
00:06:43
the track of investing and uh may never
00:06:46
get back on in my opinion selling at the
00:06:49
bottom it's the cardinal sin in
00:06:52
investing
00:06:54
[Music]
00:07:00
now I want to get a little philosophical
00:07:02
one of my great Heroes Peter Bernstein
00:07:05
probably the best thinker in a
00:07:07
philosophic sense and and a real
00:07:09
investment Sage who sadly passed away
00:07:12
around 2009 one said essentially risk
00:07:16
says we don't know what's going to
00:07:18
happen we walk every moment into the
00:07:21
unknown he said there's a range of
00:07:24
outcomes and we don't know where the
00:07:26
actual outcome is going to fall within
00:07:28
the range and often we don't know what
00:07:31
the range is so in other words we have
00:07:34
ignorance to varying degrees about what
00:07:37
the future holds and it is from this
00:07:41
ignorance uh that risk ensues if we knew
00:07:44
what was going to happen by definition
00:07:45
there would be no risk in the memo that
00:07:48
I mentioned before risk Revisited again
00:07:50
there's a great quote uh that I got from
00:07:53
a Peter Bernstein memo and I thought it
00:07:56
was so important that I took it over
00:07:58
word for word in my memo it's from GK
00:08:01
Chesterton who was a English uh writer
00:08:06
and he said the following and I'm going
00:08:09
to give it to you word for word uh
00:08:11
because it's so important the real
00:08:14
trouble with this world of ours is not
00:08:16
that it is an unreasonable world or even
00:08:20
that it is a reasonable one the
00:08:23
commonest kind of trouble is that it is
00:08:26
nearly reasonable but not quite life is
00:08:30
not an
00:08:31
illogicality yet it is a trap for
00:08:34
logicians it looks just a little more
00:08:37
mathematical and regular than it is its
00:08:41
exactitude is obvious but its
00:08:43
inexactitude is hidden its wildness lies
00:08:47
in weight in other
00:08:50
words we know what's likely to
00:08:53
happen we know the other things that
00:08:56
probably could happen instead
00:09:00
we have little appreciation for the
00:09:03
things that are highly unlikely to
00:09:05
happen but could and these are what we
00:09:08
call in modern day terms the uh tail
00:09:11
events my friend Rick kanaine once said
00:09:14
that 96% of financial history has
00:09:17
occurred within two standard deviations
00:09:19
but everything interesting has happened
00:09:22
outside of two standard deviations
00:09:24
that's the wild part
00:09:26
[Music]
00:09:32
so now let me try in a slightly
00:09:36
philosophical sense to reflect to you
00:09:39
how I think about risk how I think you
00:09:42
might consider risk through four basic
00:09:45
points number one there was a professor
00:09:48
at the London Business School who said
00:09:51
risk means more things can happen then
00:09:54
will happen for most events that lie in
00:09:57
the future there are a number of things
00:10:01
that could occur we don't know which one
00:10:03
it will be that's where the risk comes
00:10:05
in more things can happen then will
00:10:08
happen number two as a result of that
00:10:11
the future should be viewed not as a
00:10:13
fixed outcome that's destined to happen
00:10:15
and capable of being predicted but as a
00:10:18
range of possibilities and hopefully
00:10:21
because you have some insight into their
00:10:24
respective likelihoods as a probability
00:10:27
distribution the most likely the less
00:10:29
likely the unlikely but not impossible
00:10:32
number three it's important to accept
00:10:36
that even when you know the
00:10:38
probabilities that doesn't mean you know
00:10:40
what's going to happen uh this is uh
00:10:43
something that I think many people fail
00:10:45
to grasp I play a lot of back gamon and
00:10:48
a lot of my examples uh on risk and
00:10:52
uncertainty uh come from the game of
00:10:54
back gamut which is played with a pair
00:10:56
of dice and when you roll your pair of
00:10:59
dice
00:10:59
we know exactly in advance what the
00:11:02
probabilities are each die has six sides
00:11:05
there are 36 possible combinations of
00:11:07
the six sides we know how many of them
00:11:10
for example will add up to seven and
00:11:12
seven is the most likely single outcome
00:11:15
1 16 25 34 43 52 61 there are six
00:11:21
possibilities out of the
00:11:24
36 that will give you a seven that's the
00:11:27
most likely outcome uh six out of 36
00:11:30
that's 16.7% probability now what if
00:11:34
instead you want to know about a six
00:11:36
well with a six there are five
00:11:38
possibilities five possibilities out of
00:11:41
36 that's a little less than a seventh
00:11:43
and then when you get down to uh the
00:11:46
number two is's only one one one one out
00:11:50
of 36 and for the number 12 only one 66
00:11:55
one out of 36 both of those are about a
00:11:57
3% probability of happening so we know
00:11:59
exactly what the probability
00:12:02
distribution looks like uh uh we know
00:12:05
what's the most likely the other likely
00:12:08
possibilities and the unlikely
00:12:10
possibilities we still don't know what's
00:12:12
going to happen so knowing the
00:12:14
probabilities does not eliminate the
00:12:16
uncertainty I work with a professor at
00:12:19
Warden named Chris gsy and the way he
00:12:21
put it to me one time we live in the
00:12:24
sample not the universe in other words
00:12:27
the universe statistics
00:12:29
like I just explained for the dice
00:12:32
determine the things that could happen
00:12:34
and maybe their possibility but we live
00:12:37
in the sample we only have one outcome
00:12:42
and therein lies the uncertainty a great
00:12:44
way to think about this is on Super Bowl
00:12:47
morning in 2016 they had a former
00:12:50
football player on uh and he said what I
00:12:54
thought was one of the smartest things
00:12:56
about uh probability I had ever heard
00:12:59
this game was Denver versus Carolina and
00:13:02
Carolina was heavily favored and they
00:13:04
asked him who he thought would win and
00:13:06
he said the following Carolina wins
00:13:09
eight times out of 10 this could be one
00:13:12
of the two now this gives you the UN the
00:13:16
essence of probability and the essence
00:13:19
of risk uh most people if they hear that
00:13:23
something's 80% likely to happen they
00:13:24
say well then I guess we know what's
00:13:27
going to happen I guess they might might
00:13:29
as well not play the game no 80% likely
00:13:33
means that the other team should win one
00:13:35
game out of five so have to play the
00:13:38
game because we have to figure out which
00:13:40
game this will be and that leads to
00:13:42
number four I take Dimson statement that
00:13:46
uh risk means more things can happen
00:13:48
than will happen and I turn it
00:13:50
over even though many things can happen
00:13:54
only one will thus the expected value
00:13:57
the probability weighted average of the
00:13:59
possible outcomes which is the basis on
00:14:03
which people make uh many decisions it
00:14:06
can be irrelevant they take each outcome
00:14:09
they multiply it by the probability they
00:14:11
add them up and they get the expected
00:14:13
outcome and many people will say well
00:14:15
we're going to take the course of action
00:14:17
that has the highest expected value but
00:14:20
sometimes the expected value isn't even
00:14:23
among the possibilities now this sounds
00:14:25
highly counterintuitive but think about
00:14:27
this let's consider a course of action
00:14:31
which has four possible outcomes 2 4 6
00:14:34
and 8 and let's say that we conclude
00:14:38
that each of those four is equally
00:14:41
likely to happen so what we do is we
00:14:43
take each one 2 4 6 8 we multiply it by
00:14:48
25% the possibility of it happening and
00:14:51
we add it together and in this case the
00:14:54
the expected value of 2 468 is five but
00:14:58
five can can't happen remember I said
00:15:01
the outcomes can be 2 4 6 and eight so
00:15:04
it I'm I'm only going through this to
00:15:06
show you the possible fallacy of
00:15:08
expected value there's another problem
00:15:10
with expected value because even though
00:15:12
course of action a can have a higher
00:15:15
expected value than course of action B
00:15:18
course of action a may include some
00:15:19
possibilities that you just can't live
00:15:22
with maybe course of action a uh
00:15:25
includes some remote possibility that
00:15:28
you lose all youry money and even though
00:15:30
it's highly unlikely you you may say I
00:15:32
just don't want to contemplate that so
00:15:34
you don't take a you take b instead
00:15:36
which has a slightly lower expected
00:15:38
value uh but without the risk of
00:15:47
Ruin now moving on a little bit to to
00:15:50
talk about the character of risk I think
00:15:53
it's interesting to note that risk is
00:15:55
counterintuitive they did an experiment
00:15:57
in the town of draon Holland they took
00:16:00
away all the traffic lights traffic
00:16:02
signs and Road markings what do you
00:16:05
think happened to the level of accidents
00:16:07
and
00:16:08
fatalities it went down how could it
00:16:11
possibly have gone down when all the
00:16:14
road AIDS were gone and the answer is
00:16:16
people said oh there are no more traffic
00:16:19
signs traffic lights or Road markings
00:16:22
I'd better drive more carefully on the
00:16:24
other hand Jill fredson is uh an expert
00:16:28
on a avalanches and uh she said that
00:16:32
better gear is created every year which
00:16:35
makes it easier and more feasible to to
00:16:39
climb and yet the risk the number of
00:16:43
fatalities and accidents in Climbing
00:16:45
doesn't go down how can that be
00:16:48
obviously counterintuitive people see
00:16:51
that better gear is being invented and
00:16:54
they say Well since we have better gear
00:16:56
we can do riskier things and the level
00:16:59
of accidents and fatalities is
00:17:02
maintained even in in spite of the
00:17:04
arrival of better gear so if you think
00:17:08
about those two examples you realize
00:17:10
that the risk of an activity doesn't
00:17:12
just lie in the activity in itself but
00:17:15
importantly in how the participants
00:17:18
approach it the degree of risk present
00:17:22
in a
00:17:22
market or in an investment doesn't come
00:17:26
just from the market or the investment
00:17:29
but how people participate in that
00:17:32
investment and if they conclude that the
00:17:36
market has become safer they may say
00:17:39
that that frees them to do riskier
00:17:41
things and that's why I believe that
00:17:44
risk is low when investors behave
00:17:48
prudently and High when they don't just
00:17:51
as risk is counterintuitive I believe
00:17:53
that risk is perverse as I said the
00:17:57
riskiest thing in the world is the
00:17:58
belief that there's there's no risk a
00:18:00
high level of risk Consciousness on the
00:18:02
other hand tends to mitigate risk so
00:18:04
when people say well that's really risky
00:18:06
if they take a a cautious approach then
00:18:08
it becomes safe as an asset declines in
00:18:12
price most people say oh it's risky look
00:18:14
how it's falling but with the lower
00:18:17
price it actually becomes less risky as
00:18:19
an asset appreciates most people say
00:18:22
that's a great asset look how well it's
00:18:24
doing but the rising price makes it
00:18:26
riskier so again pervert
00:18:29
and this perversity is one of the main
00:18:31
things that render most people incapable
00:18:34
of understanding risk I think it's
00:18:36
important to grasp a concept risk is
00:18:40
hidden and risk is deceptive loss is
00:18:44
what happens when risk the potential for
00:18:48
loss collides with negative events you
00:18:51
know Buffett says everything the
00:18:53
greatest and he said that uh it's only
00:18:55
when the tide goes out that we find out
00:18:57
who's been swimming naked
00:18:59
uh it's only in times of testing that
00:19:02
investors and their strategies uh are
00:19:05
examined uh for the risk they really
00:19:08
held an example of that I wrote in my
00:19:11
book The most important thing uh those
00:19:14
of us who live in California as I did at
00:19:16
the time our houses might contain a
00:19:19
construction flaw but if all is well
00:19:23
that flaw sits there for year after year
00:19:25
and doesn't produce any loss it's only
00:19:29
when the earthquakes occur that the
00:19:31
house is tested and the flaws are
00:19:33
disclosed and the risk the potential for
00:19:36
loss turns into actual loss so similarly
00:19:41
an investment can be risky but if it
00:19:43
only exists in salutary environments it
00:19:47
may look like a winter for a long time
00:19:50
and it may look safe for a long time the
00:19:52
fact that an investment is susceptible
00:19:55
to a risk that occurs extremely rarely
00:19:58
uh what I call an improbable disaster
00:20:01
what Nasim Nicholas TB called The Black
00:20:03
Swan in his excellent book The
00:20:06
infrequency of loss can make it appear
00:20:10
that the investment is safer than it
00:20:12
really is and of course that's an
00:20:15
entirely risky uh conclusion so uh the
00:20:19
infrequency with which uh risk turns
00:20:22
into loss uh can be deceptive uh and
00:20:25
cause people to underrate the risk
00:20:27
involved in an activ
00:20:29
[Music]
00:20:35
one of the most important things for
00:20:37
every investor to learn is that risk is
00:20:40
not a function of asset quality this too
00:20:43
sounds counterintuitive there's a belief
00:20:46
that high quality assets are safe and
00:20:48
lowquality assets are risky I believe
00:20:51
quite the opposite a high quality asset
00:20:54
can be priced so high that it's risky I
00:20:58
came to to work in this industry in
00:20:59
September of 1969 the banks at that time
00:21:03
and I was hired by one of them engaged
00:21:06
in what was called nifty50 investing
00:21:08
they invested in what were considered to
00:21:10
be the 50 best and fastest growing
00:21:12
companies in America companies so good
00:21:15
that nothing bad could ever happen and
00:21:18
there was no price too high for their
00:21:19
stocks and if you bought those great
00:21:22
companies the day I got to work in
00:21:24
September of 1969 and if you held their
00:21:27
stocks tenaciously for the next five
00:21:29
years you lost more than 90% of your
00:21:31
money because the prices paid were just
00:21:34
too high and unsustainable and roughly
00:21:37
half of those companies did run into
00:21:40
serious fundamental problems their
00:21:42
quality alone or their perceive quality
00:21:45
did not impart to them the safety that
00:21:48
people thought it would and in fact
00:21:50
because people thought they were so safe
00:21:52
they bid them up to prices which in fact
00:21:54
made them risky on the other hand a
00:21:57
lowquality asset can be cheap enough to
00:21:59
be safe again this seems
00:22:02
counterintuitive and maybe even perverse
00:22:05
when I left the world of equities in
00:22:08
1978 I was asked by City Bank to start
00:22:11
their activity in high yield bonds and
00:22:14
now I was investing in the lowest
00:22:16
quality uh public companies in America
00:22:20
and making money steadily and safely the
00:22:23
ju toos of these events taught me an
00:22:26
important lesson uh that I want to share
00:22:28
sh with you uh so that you don't have to
00:22:31
learn it firsthand my conclusion was
00:22:35
it's not what you buy it's what you pay
00:22:37
and investment success doesn't come from
00:22:39
buying good things but from buying
00:22:40
things well and if you don't know the
00:22:43
difference you have to study up um there
00:22:47
are no assets that are so good that they
00:22:51
can't become overpriced and
00:22:54
dangerous there are very few assets that
00:22:57
are so bad that they can't be cheap
00:23:00
enough to be attractive as Investments
00:23:03
so this is a a simple concept it sounds
00:23:08
like to me but I hope you'll spend a lot
00:23:10
of time thinking about its
00:23:13
[Music]
00:23:19
consequences now let's talk for a while
00:23:21
about the relationship between risk and
00:23:23
return this is one of the most important
00:23:25
of all the topics when I got to
00:23:27
University of Chicago The Chicago School
00:23:30
of theory with regard to investment had
00:23:32
just been developed mostly between 62
00:23:35
and 64 and I arrived in ' 67 and there
00:23:39
was a graphic that we saw all the time
00:23:43
it shows uh return on the vertical axis
00:23:46
risk on the horizontal axis and an
00:23:48
upward sloping line to the right we call
00:23:51
that a positive correlation one goes up
00:23:54
the other goes up as well now most
00:23:56
people would look at that graphic and
00:23:59
say well that means two things that uh
00:24:02
riskier assets have higher returns and
00:24:06
if you want to make more money the way
00:24:07
to do it is to take more risk I think
00:24:10
that's a terrible formulation very
00:24:12
simply if it were true that riskier
00:24:14
assets produce higher returns then they
00:24:16
wouldn't be riskier would they so that
00:24:19
can't be the right
00:24:20
explanation what the upward sloping line
00:24:23
the positive correlation means is that
00:24:26
Investments that are perceived as being
00:24:28
risky have to be perceived as offering
00:24:32
higher returns to induce people to make
00:24:34
those Investments that makes perfect
00:24:36
sense the only thing is they don't have
00:24:39
to deliver and it's from the possibility
00:24:41
that the projected returns will not be
00:24:44
delivered that the risk ensues when you
00:24:48
look at the old graph the linearity of
00:24:51
the relationship between risk and return
00:24:55
implies a Dependable relationship and
00:24:58
I've always felt that that was
00:25:00
misleading I was never happy uh when I
00:25:03
got out into the real world and and and
00:25:05
had to live with the consequences and so
00:25:08
I developed my own version of that chart
00:25:12
I took some little bell-shaped
00:25:14
probability distributions and I turned
00:25:16
them on their side and I superimpose
00:25:19
them on the same line it's the same
00:25:21
underlying line just now with some
00:25:23
embellishment with the old graph as you
00:25:26
moved from left to right the risk
00:25:28
increased and the return increased but
00:25:31
with this new graft As you move from
00:25:32
left to right the expected return
00:25:34
increases just as it did in the old one
00:25:37
but at the same time the range of
00:25:39
possibilities becomes wider and the
00:25:41
worst outcomes become worse that's risk
00:25:45
this is the way to think about the risk
00:25:48
return
00:25:49
[Music]
00:25:54
relationship so now let's talk a little
00:25:57
more about how risk should be handled
00:26:00
what determines investment success and
00:26:03
the best way I have uh to communicate
00:26:06
this to you in my opinion is like the
00:26:10
act of pulling one Lottery Ticket the
00:26:13
outcome from a bowl full of lottery
00:26:16
tickets the full range of possible
00:26:19
outcomes as Dimson said we're going to
00:26:21
have one outcome there could be many
00:26:24
outcomes and the outcome that occurs
00:26:26
never amounts in my opinion
00:26:28
to anything but one ticket pulled from
00:26:31
among the many in my opinion Superior
00:26:35
investors have a better sense for the
00:26:38
tickets in the bowl for What proportion
00:26:42
of them are winners and What proportion
00:26:44
of them are losers than do most other
00:26:46
people that's what makes them Superior
00:26:49
and thus they have a better grasp of
00:26:53
whether it's worth participating in a
00:26:55
any given Lottery and how heavily to bet
00:26:59
now how should each of us deal with risk
00:27:03
I think that risk is best assessed
00:27:05
through subjective judgment since risk
00:27:07
cannot be measured gauging it has to be
00:27:09
the province of subject matter experts
00:27:13
and I'm clearly uh jist on the subject
00:27:16
of
00:27:17
quantification I believe imprecise
00:27:19
qualitative expert opinion about the
00:27:22
probability of
00:27:23
loss is far more useful than precise but
00:27:27
largely irrelevant numbers concerning
00:27:29
past and projected volatility so what is
00:27:34
the essence of risk management Peter
00:27:36
Bernstein again my my hero he said
00:27:41
because of the existence of risk things
00:27:44
are going to be different from what we
00:27:46
expect from time to time how well are we
00:27:50
prepared to deal when it's different
00:27:53
this is a great formulation there's no
00:27:56
challenge dealing with the events when
00:27:59
they turn out as we expected the
00:28:01
question is are we prepared for when
00:28:04
they don't turn out as expected
00:28:07
according to Bernstein risk just means
00:28:09
things are uncertain good things can
00:28:11
happen as well as bad things but I think
00:28:14
the definition of risk should emphasize
00:28:17
the bad things and thus I would say risk
00:28:20
is the possibility that from the range
00:28:22
of Uncertain outcomes an unfavorable one
00:28:26
will be the one that materialize izes it
00:28:29
can consist of suffering a permanent
00:28:31
loss of capital when bad things happen
00:28:33
it can also consist of missing out on
00:28:35
gains when good things happen these
00:28:37
things have to be balanced let's say you
00:28:40
think that if you buy something today
00:28:41
there's a one-third chance it'll be down
00:28:43
in six or 12 months what will you do
00:28:46
about that risk many people will say
00:28:48
well I just wouldn't buy it but what do
00:28:50
you do about the other 2third the chance
00:28:53
that it'll be up in 6 to 12 months how
00:28:55
do you balance the two risks and you
00:28:57
know in the real world we can't make
00:28:59
decisions in one dimension we basically
00:29:02
have to balance I think that risk is
00:29:04
something that should be dealt with uh
00:29:06
constantly continuously not
00:29:09
sporadically that's why I Bridal when I
00:29:12
hear this formulation is this a risk on
00:29:14
Market or a risk off Market remember
00:29:17
risk produces loss when bad things
00:29:20
happen and that's when we need risk
00:29:22
control but I believe we never know when
00:29:25
bad things will happen and thus when
00:29:28
risk control will be needed I think the
00:29:30
right model for thinking about whether
00:29:32
we need risk control isn't American
00:29:35
football is soccer in American football
00:29:38
the team with the ball has the offense
00:29:40
on the field they have four tries to go
00:29:43
10 yards if they go 10 yards they get
00:29:45
four more tries to go 10 more yards and
00:29:47
if they can keep doing it they
00:29:49
eventually score but if the team doesn't
00:29:52
go 10 yards in four tries the referee
00:29:55
Blows the Whistle the ball goes over to
00:29:58
to the other team and they try to go 10
00:30:00
yards in four tries in the opposite
00:30:02
direction so we have two teams switching
00:30:05
between offense and defense changing
00:30:07
Personnel when there are stoppages that
00:30:10
has nothing to do with the real world
00:30:12
the right model as I say is what the
00:30:15
rest of the world calls football the
00:30:18
same 11 people mostly play the whole
00:30:21
game nobody tells you when to be on
00:30:23
offense or defense and there are very
00:30:26
few stoppages in which to adjust tactics
00:30:29
and and
00:30:31
Personnel that's the real world in
00:30:34
investing one of the key decisions is
00:30:36
when to be on offense when to be on
00:30:38
defense how much to allocate to each of
00:30:41
those but nobody tells you when to do it
00:30:43
and nobody stops the game to give you
00:30:45
time I think the best model for
00:30:48
investing and risk management is
00:30:51
automobile insurance we all drive we all
00:30:54
have cars we all have insurance on our
00:30:56
cars but I don't think of us get to the
00:30:58
end of a year and say I wish I hadn't
00:31:00
had Insurance because I didn't have an
00:31:03
accident we like having insurance for
00:31:05
the safety it give us regardless of
00:31:08
whether or not we have an accident in a
00:31:10
particular year I think about the
00:31:12
intelligent bearing of risk for profit
00:31:15
back in 1981 I was interviewed by one of
00:31:18
the first cable networks and uh the
00:31:21
reporter said to me how can you invest
00:31:23
in high yield bonds when you know some
00:31:25
of them are going to go bankrupt and for
00:31:28
some reason I was able to come up with
00:31:29
the right answer on the spot I said the
00:31:32
most conservative companies in America
00:31:34
are the life insurance companies how can
00:31:36
they Ure people's lives when they know
00:31:38
they're all going to die and I think
00:31:40
it's an interesting question but the
00:31:41
life insurance company is number one
00:31:44
taking a risk that it's aware of they're
00:31:46
not shocked when somebody dies that's
00:31:48
the way it goes number two they take a
00:31:51
risk they can analyze and when I was a
00:31:53
young man and got my first insurance
00:31:54
policy they sent a doctor to my house to
00:31:56
see if I was healthy number three they
00:31:58
take a risk that can be Diversified so
00:32:01
no life insurance companies insure just
00:32:04
smokers or just people who live in on
00:32:07
the San Andreas fault or just
00:32:09
skydivers just young people or just old
00:32:11
people they have a mix a diversified
00:32:13
portfolio and they take a risk that
00:32:16
they're well paid to Bear they figure
00:32:18
out the probability of what they're
00:32:20
going to have to pay you based on
00:32:21
Actuarial assumptions they allow some
00:32:24
windage for the uncertainty and then
00:32:26
they charge you a premium we do the same
00:32:28
we take credit risk that we're aware of
00:32:31
we analyze it we take a risk that we can
00:32:33
diversify we have large numbers of
00:32:35
Holdings in every portfolio which
00:32:38
respond to different factors and it's a
00:32:40
risk we're well paid to Bear we get
00:32:42
What's called the risk premium or a
00:32:44
yield premium to take the risk of
00:32:46
default so the bottom line is that I
00:32:48
believe risk is kept under control in
00:32:51
Superior portfolios that's one of the
00:32:53
things that Superior investors do highly
00:32:56
skilled investors assemble portfolio
00:32:58
that will produce good returns if things
00:32:59
go as expected and resist declines if
00:33:03
they don't this asymmetry is in my
00:33:07
opinion the critical element the
00:33:10
Cornerstone of superior investing
00:33:12
assembling a portfolio that incorporates
00:33:14
risk control along with the potential
00:33:17
for gains is a great accomplishment but
00:33:20
it's often a hidden accomplishment
00:33:22
because risk only turns into loss
00:33:26
occasionally When the tide go goes out
00:33:29
but The Prudent investor and hopefully
00:33:32
his or her clients knows that risk is
00:33:35
being controlled even at times when it
00:33:38
doesn't come to the surface so I think
00:33:41
that risk is something to be managed and
00:33:44
controlled but not avoided risk control
00:33:48
is indispensable risk avoidance is not
00:33:51
an appropriate goal in investing Will
00:33:53
Rogers said you've got to go out on a
00:33:55
limb sometimes because that's where the
00:33:57
fruit is I think and my experience tells
00:34:00
me from watching others that risk
00:34:03
avoidance equates to return
00:34:06
avoidance intelligent bearing of risk
00:34:09
should be able to enable us to make good
00:34:13
returns with the risk under
00:34:15
[Music]
00:34:21
control so what's the bottom line of all
00:34:25
that
00:34:26
foregoing you shouldn't expect to make
00:34:28
money without bearing risk you shouldn't
00:34:31
expect to make money just for bearing
00:34:33
risk risk is best handled on the basis
00:34:36
of accurate subjective judgments made by
00:34:39
experienced expert investors who
00:34:42
emphasize risk
00:34:44
Consciousness the great challenge in
00:34:46
investing is to limit uncertainty and
00:34:49
still maintain substantial potential for
00:34:52
gains and in conclusion I'll just say
00:34:55
that outstanding investors are out
00:34:57
standing for the simple reason that they
00:35:00
have a
00:35:01
superior sense for the probability
00:35:04
distribution that governs future events
00:35:07
the tickets in the bowl and for whether
00:35:09
the potential return compensates for the
00:35:13
risks that lurk in the distribution's
00:35:16
unattractive left-and tail this is what
00:35:19
enables them to achieve the asymmetry
00:35:22
that characterizes Superior investors
00:35:25
participating strongly in the game GS
00:35:27
when there are gains and avoiding many
00:35:30
of the losses when there are losses I
00:35:33
hope the foregoing discussion will help
00:35:35
you be among
00:35:37
[Music]
00:35:56
them for