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foreign
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[Music]
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we have a presentation from Professor
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Linda Keeling at SLU on animal welfare
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she's part of the Department of animal
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environment and health at SLU and I just
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want to remind everyone that the meeting
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is being recorded So
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just to take note of that but we do want
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this to be an interactive session so
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we'll do 15-20 minutes presentation and
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then we'll leave 10 minutes or so at the
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end for any questions and
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discussion so Professor Kaling I'll hand
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it over to you and um
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thank you for joining us
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thank you very much so you already have
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heard my name and where I come from so
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let's go on and talk about what is
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Animal Welfare uh the first one is
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really
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hasn't it been around for a long time is
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this anything new what's the difference
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between just the animal husbandry that
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we had many hundreds and and thousands
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of years ago
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there is a difference otherwise we
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wouldn't have the term we'd be talking
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still about animal husbandry or
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veterinary medicine
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and we've been concerned about the ill
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treatment of animals beating of animals
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uh the horse here on the right hand side
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or experiments with animals
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we've been concerned about that as well
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but I want to say that the real modern
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Animal Welfare debate came around in the
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1960s with the publication of this book
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animal machines and for those of you
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working for the environment area May
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recognize that name at the bottom Rachel
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Carlson she wrote the forward to this
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book and you will know that she wrote
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the book Silent Spring which is the book
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that really got the environmental
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movement going and you can think that
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this book animal machines where it
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coined the term factory farms this is
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what really got the the modern Animal
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Welfare discussion going
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so Animal Welfare didn't really come out
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of a scientific discovery it came out of
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society's concern so of course Animal
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Welfare always has
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um a large ethics part concerned with
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the values of what we should be doing
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but about the science and I'm going to
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be talking about the science part and
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this scientific study of Animal Welfare
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but these two are linked here so I just
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want to put up this one here and say
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that Animal Welfare you can think of it
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as the animals experience of its own
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situation and if you want a really
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simple way to say what is Animal Welfare
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just say it's the animal's experience of
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its own situation and that makes it
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different from animal protection which
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is what we as people should do to
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protect animals and then ethics is
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coming in between us deciding okay based
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on the evidence what should we do and
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what ought we do but it's important that
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you know the difference between animal
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welfare and the animal's point of view
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and animal protection
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what do we as as people should do
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I also just want to point out that don't
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mix things up with the big Animal
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Welfare debate in society I mean here
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when we have discussions about what we
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should be doing should be transporting
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animals things like economics trade
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um religion culture gender all these
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other things come in Animal Welfare
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science of course is a really important
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part of that it should be but it is only
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one part of this wider debate
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so after that little introduction I want
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to quickly go through some descriptions
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and definitions of Animal Welfare
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and one that you may have seen before or
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heard about are the five freedoms it's
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quite old now 1979 but it's this sort of
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aspiration animals should be kept where
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they're freedom from hunger and thirst
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freedom from discomfort Freedom From
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Pain or whatever normal behavior able to
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express normal behavior Freedom From
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Fear and distress I put this it because
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I want to show you already here there's
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a distinction between the Animal Welfare
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point of view because it's the animal
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that experiences the hunger and thirst
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and it's the animal that should have
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freedom from that so that's the Bold
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text and then after that we have the
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animal protection part what we as people
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should do we should protect them by
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giving them ready access to water and a
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diet to maintain their health and vigor
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it's the animal that should be free from
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discomfort so that's the welfare part
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and the protection comes in by that we
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should provide them in appropriate
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environments already here there was this
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clear distinction between the Animal
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Welfare part and the animal protection
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part
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but what is also clear here is that
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animal welfare is a multi-dimensional
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concept we're coming with behavior we're
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coming with emotional states like fear
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and distress we're coming with clinical
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things like pain and injury and disease
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management things like discomfort so
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multi-dimensional con concept and I'll
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come back to that again
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another term that you might hear another
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model that you might hear is called the
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five domains model it's easy to mix them
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up the five freedoms and the five domain
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models this is more recent but there's a
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lot of similarities it talks about four
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physical domains about the nutrition of
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the animals the environment the health
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and the behavior how we should be
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keeping them and you can see that a lot
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of those things are similar to the five
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freedoms about water deprivation food
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deprivation in the five freedoms it was
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freedom from hunger and thirst the
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difference is here is that this model
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tries to keep the physical aspects from
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the mental the fifth mental domain which
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is about the animal experience of the
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situation The Thirst the hunger the
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anxiety the pain the fear and the stress
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these are all the animals experience of
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its situation
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but it is really complicated makes it
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difficult for people to come to
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agreement and the world Animal Health
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Organization at first when it uh took on
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discussing about Animal Welfare had a
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big long
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paragraphs of what animal welfare was
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covering everybody's views on it but now
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it's managed to reduce it down to the
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physical and mental state of an animal
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in relation to the conditions in which
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it lives and dies
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it's short but it's very Broad and I
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used to point out that this is the
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organization you may sometimes see them
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as oie because they went into their
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French name but they've recently changed
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their name to the to the English
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shortening of the world Organization for
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animal health so don't get confused it's
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the same organization
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so why do people have difficulties
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coming together or uh why do they then
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talk about these General things well one
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is because when people start to discuss
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Animal Welfare they have different views
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about what is important to the animal
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so some people think it's in the nature
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of animals to do certain things and
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that's what they should be able to do so
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pigs root around and cows chewy grass
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and ruminate it's
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the welfare is based on the natural
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behavior the animal and the nature of
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the species
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other people say no it's about making
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making the body or helping the body
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function in the way that it's intended
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to function that the animal can cope
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easily with the environment has the
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right type of food and the right
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temperature and then other people say ah
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but it's all how the animal experiences
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the situation it's in the head even no
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matter what it has it's how the animal's
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view of it that matters
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you probably recognize this person
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Charles Darwin and he wrote the book the
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origin of the species and actually what
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people realize when they started to see
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these three is that we're just talking
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about the same thing
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natural behavior evolved so that the
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animal is fit and healthy and the body
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functions well when the body functions
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well the animal is satisfied and content
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it's subjective states are positive if
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things are not going well it will have
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negative states of fear and stress and
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these will influence the behavior that
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the animal performs because it's the
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emotional state of the animal that
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influences motivation to perform the
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different behaviors so they're really
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just the same thing looking at them from
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different angles
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so once this became clear we're all
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talking about the same thing
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go on and just talk about two much more
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scientific definitions of Animal Welfare
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I'll come back to these so I just want
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to mention them very briefly now the
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first one was a person called Dom broom
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very well accepted definition the
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welfare of an individual is its state as
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regards to its attempts to cope with the
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environment so where the animal is
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coping easily it's got the right type of
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food it's in the right type of
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temperature environment it's welfare is
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good maybe it can only cope with help
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you have to move it somewhere else give
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it some additional food give it some
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antibiotics or whatever and then there's
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the the right hand side there when it's
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not coping eventually it would die
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another that would be seemingly very
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different definition of Animal Welfare
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is by Ian Duncan on welfare depends on
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how the animal feels and this one says
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you have positive feelings when you're
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feeling good and your welfare is good
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and you have negative feelings when the
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things are not so good and you're not
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feeling good so come back to these but
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you can see already here now that Don
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Broome would probably fit into the
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biological functioning circle of those
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three circles that I showed you whereas
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Ian Duncan is much more onto the
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subjective feelings so again you'll have
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an idea that these are really just
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different views of coming in of how we
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might start to assess the welfare of
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animals
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and let's go on and talk about the
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important part of assessing Animal
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Welfare
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we're never going to be able to measure
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Animal Welfare you're never going to say
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welfare is 43.2 or whatever we're going
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to have to use indicators of animal
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welfare and since we're talking about
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the animal and its experience of the
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situation they're going to come from
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Health physiology Behavior we actually
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think of a toolbox of indicators that
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you can go in and pull out the the
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different indicator telling you about
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the health of the animal uh hormones and
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heart rate we'll tell you about the
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physiology the behavior the movements
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whether it's a normal behavior an
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abnormal behavior like this horse that's
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showing crib biting there
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so let's come back to this definition
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here the first one so if you want to
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start at the left hand side the animal
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is coping easily here we have some newly
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weaned piglets there supposing life is
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pretty good just with the exception just
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a little little bit too cold
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the easiest thing for the pigs to do to
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cope with that is to huddle up to each
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other lie on top of each other bury
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themselves into the straw it's easy to
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just change your behavior and yeah
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you're not cold anymore
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if there's if it's too cold there's not
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enough straw maybe you have to eat some
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more because you're losing energy in
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um through heat so you might get changes
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in the physiology if there's not enough
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food you might be in the middle here
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they start to compete for food that's
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quite stressful when you have stress
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you'll get immunosuppression you might
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get injured or you might develop
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abnormal behaviors like this pig that's
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about to bite the tail of another one
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tail biting is a big problem if you have
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an injury might get an infection
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that can lead to disease if you're not
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treated properly and death so you can
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imagine this sort of slippery slope
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where you can go in and take Health
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physiology and behavior indicators to
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tell you how severe or how well the
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animal is coping with the environment
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and you can even do it with this one
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that's about how the animal feels
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I know it's difficult to know even how
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another human being feels but we can get
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an indication of it we have preferences
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we prefer some things over others so do
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animals
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they prefer this type of straw over
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another type of straw we can measure
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motivation how many times will this pig
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push on this button to open this door to
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get access to some straw
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we know the difference between different
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types of vocalizations threatening
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vocalizations the contact call between a
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mother and its young and we can read
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body language of a frightened cat or a
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sick individual so even on something as
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difficult as feelings of animals we do
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have indicators and tools that we can
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use
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and a good example of this looking very
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systematically through is the welfare
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quality project in the examples I gave
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before we were looking at sort of
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severity how much is the animal going
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from positive to negative or how much is
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it having to cope here is looking more
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at the holistic you have to have all
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these aspects and you will have
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different indicators for thermal Comfort
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different indicators for Comfort around
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resting ease of movement no painful
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procedures disease and going ground you
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want indicators in all these and they
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have to be reasonably good in all of
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them otherwise welfare is not good it's
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no good saying oh yeah we have most of
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them we just have a lot of disease here
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welfare is not going to be good then so
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it's like the weakest chain in the link
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so welfare quality did a lot to
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systematize how we should go around
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these different indicators and how they
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can fit into getting this whole picture
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and you can read more about those on the
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assessment protocols
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and then I want to make a difference
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between welfare assessment where we use
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the indicators like heart rate or how
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the animal is moving or clinical studies
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of of injuries and compare that with
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risk assessment
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so if we take this cow here
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what I have been talking to about up
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until now is called the outcome-based
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approach assessing how the animal
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experiences the way it's being kept and
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managed remember on that very first
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picture I said that annual welfare is
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about the animal's experience of its
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situation and all those indicators that
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I showed you were all looking at the
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animals so they're called animal-based
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measures so this is the the usual way of
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going in and looking and assessing
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Animal Welfare
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but we can also have this approach the
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input-based approach so where we have
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protecting Animals by reducing the risk
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of poor welfare and here we have to look
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at the food that's given or the floor
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so for example we might look at what
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food the animal's given but if it's got
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sick or diarrhea or has no teeth it
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can't be
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use of that food
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or we might look at the floor and
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cleaners a lot but we can also look at
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the Hooves of the cow and say okay does
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it have uh dermatitis or any any
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injuries so one is the input what's
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going in reducing the risk of poor
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welfare and the other one that I've been
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talking about now is the outcome base
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where we're looking at the the outcome
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of this
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here's a model version of it this is
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from the European Food Safety Authority
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so on the left we have the risk
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assessment
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where we're looking at these inputs the
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resources that are available to the
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animal the management practices these
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are all risk factors that are acting on
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the animal so there we have our cow
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again
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and it has a genotype it has previous
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experiences a certain age and it tries
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to cope with the environment around it
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and we would hope that it's there's been
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some good animal protection here that
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we're keeping it in a way that that's
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good for the welfare but whatever it's
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trying to cope with all those inputs
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that are coming in and what we can
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measure on the right hand side is the
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response of the animal these
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animal-based versions which indicate how
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this this animal's welfare so it's like
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risk factors and consequences there
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and if that seems too theoretical here's
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a practical example
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here we have the inputs we know that uh
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these Broiler chickens they're drinking
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from these water nipples they can leak
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and it gets the litter gets wet we can
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have poor ventilation that's not getting
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rid of the humidity in the building or
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the condensation results in too high
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humidity in the building what feed the
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animals are eating influences how uh
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runny the droppings are all these inputs
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will act on the litter material on the
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floor of the building and here we have
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our Broiler that's standing on those and
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it's gonna the soles of its feet are
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going to try and cope with the
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conditions in the litter and if he can't
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cope then we might see this type of
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dermatitis on the underside of these
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feet and this is our outcome measure
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we can score these from no injury to one
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a little bit of dermatitis to number two
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a lot
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and we can back Benchmark those changes
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over time so here are some figures from
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when this foot pad scoring or footpad
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dermatitis scoring first came in into
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Sweden when you see once you start to
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look at it it suddenly drops off
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decreased and that sort of stabilized
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went down it's gone up again or whatever
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but now there are automated ways of
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recording this
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but here's the the pattern of how you
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can
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reduce the risk because when you know
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you have foot pad dermatitis on your
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farm then you can go back and say okay
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on this side the inputs do we have water
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leaking so something we could do with
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the air can we reduce the risks of this
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that was a whirlwind tour
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so what is Animal Welfare
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well as I said it's the animals own
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experience of its situation
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okay we can assess it using animal-based
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indicators and I gave you lots of
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examples of those the last one was that
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with the foot pad dermatitis
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which indicator is the best depends on
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the situation and the aim with the
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assessment the species and the time
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available so you can have indicators
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that are quick to use on a commercial
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Farm maybe even automated up to quite
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detailed ones that can take a longer
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time to gather maybe even as part of an
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experimental study
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as you saw from the welfare quality
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Circle and from the five um freedoms or
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the five domains this is a
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multi-dimensional so we should have
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several indicators should be taken if we
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want a more correct view of the animal
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welfare
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and by investigating how the environment
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the resources and the management affect
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the animal
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we can reduce the risk of poor welfare
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I'd also want to point out that good
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welfare is more than the absence of poor
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welfare
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so we should be looking also on
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the benefits what makes animals feel
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good how can we
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increase the chances that we do things
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right that animals feel good but this is
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a new area of research and is coming in
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now so with that I'll stop
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and say Tak which is Swedish for thank
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you very much
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maybe I stop sharing my screen so that I
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can see people
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thank you so much
00:19:08
I guess we'll open the floor for any
00:19:10
questions
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I've seen some Applause I don't know
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you can either raise your hand or unmute
00:19:18
yourself
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do you have any questions for Professor
00:19:23
Keeling
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Perry
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another one question I can go next door
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and talk to you Linda but um
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I
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thank you for a nice introduction it's a
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very nice summary I think in the short
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time
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uh
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how do you
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think that we can already use data that
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are available on farms to assess Animal
00:19:56
Welfare what
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how do you estimate how much we have
00:20:01
already
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to do a good assessment
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in some areas we have a lot so where
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Animal Welfare links closely with
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product quality so for example milk
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you'll have you can have a disease
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mastitis which affects the the bacteria
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in the milk they've been following that
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because that's milk quality but it's
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also reflecting a disease and we have
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data on that huge amounts of data uh but
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there's other areas where it's more
00:20:30
difficult to collect it's not
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standardized in the same way so they
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were missing things
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so uh anything that costs money as well
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related like growth rate
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egg production people have good figures
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on that over a long period of time
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so in some areas there's a lot of data
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in other areas there's a little bit and
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in some like on the positive welfare
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indicators it's completely missing
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I think if we could have this
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standardized and it is definitely
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getting better as you know there's more
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research projects going on there's more
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organizations interested in gathering
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this type of all-round information and
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pulling this in once we can start to do
00:21:11
that then we can apply the standard
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epidemiological techniques and reduce
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and start looking at the links between
00:21:17
the risks and the outcomes and be more
00:21:19
targeted so I we're getting there but
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it's going slowly and I think there is a
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need
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or a lot more data
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in these in some areas and the other
00:21:33
point I say a need for standardization
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for example that foot pad dermatitis has
00:21:38
been um required to be measured but
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people record it in different countries
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in different ways which makes it
00:21:43
difficult to to standardize so more data
00:21:46
and more standardized
00:21:56
but that's the same as other areas as
00:21:58
well whether you're talking about the
00:21:59
environment I mean there's lots of
00:22:01
information in some areas and then it's
00:22:03
missing in other areas or in a certain
00:22:04
location
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thank you I think Valerie has a blessing
00:22:10
yes I I do not succeed in opening the
00:22:13
camera but so
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it's okay
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uh hello Linda uh
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uh I I agree with you that we we will be
00:22:23
able uh to collect more and more data
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but I think that there will maybe uh
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more uh linked to sanitary problems or
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productive uh data but what about
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welfare for example how do you uh what
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do you think that could be possible to
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collect on Farm quite easily
00:22:48
um yes they're linked to the soundtrack
00:22:49
but sometimes the I mean the disease is
00:22:51
depending on whether the how they affect
00:22:53
the animal some diseases or don't affect
00:22:56
the animals at all they're only a
00:22:57
problem for us humans who eat the meat
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or uh come in contact with the animal
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but some of them are like wounds or uh
00:23:06
scratches or whatever these are relevant
00:23:09
both from the health point of view and
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the the food safety point of view and
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from the animal
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I think also when it comes to behavior
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the the ease with which the animal can
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cope with the environment if you
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remember that definition now I know you
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know all this so I'm talking generally I
00:23:27
think we're really realizing more and
00:23:29
more these knock-on effects to
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immunocompetence there are all sorts of
00:23:34
disease out there how well the animal
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can adapt how um uh the social
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interactions giving them the skills I
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think in some respects without being
00:23:43
anthropomorphic we can look towards
00:23:46
rearing of young children and say you
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want to be preparing these individuals
00:23:50
to be a well-functioning adult and you
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need to give them the skills otherwise
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they're going to get injured they're
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going to have problems they're not going
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to cope and then they won't produce well
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or they will get sick and then that
00:24:01
comes in the economics so I think it's
00:24:04
broadening out a little bit and thinking
00:24:07
about these
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um the bigger picture
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and then zooming back in again and
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saying okay and what is it that we can
00:24:15
look at here
00:24:17
what can we test and there as you know
00:24:19
there are starting to be more and more
00:24:21
standardized tests now that can look at
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things like fear human animal
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interactions just simple things like how
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how close can you walk up to this animal
00:24:30
and will it let you touch it these types
00:24:32
of things can still give a lot of
00:24:33
information and I think if we start to
00:24:35
gather those in a good way then we we're
00:24:38
adding to that complete picture
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maybe you had something else in mind
00:24:42
when you asked that question
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no uh the the problem is that we we we
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see that sanitary data or productive
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data are valuable for the farmers so
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they will spend time to collect them or
00:24:58
to invest in uh in things in um
00:25:03
uh yes in ways to collect information uh
00:25:07
how how can you find ways to collect
00:25:10
also information you say for example a
00:25:12
human animal relationships we have uh
00:25:16
easy test to perform but uh how how can
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we uh
00:25:22
make uh the farmers use them
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I think some farmers are already
00:25:29
interested I mean they are interacting
00:25:31
if you take the Dairy Farmer they're
00:25:33
interacting with their animals all the
00:25:35
time of this one so they're really
00:25:36
curious about the figures and then the
00:25:39
other
00:25:39
so it's just to give them the tool and
00:25:41
then they use it the other ones is to
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convince them how important this is
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because we all know how many young dairy
00:25:49
cows now come in they carve and then
00:25:52
they go out of the system because they
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uh are too stressed by the environment
00:25:57
or the by the other individuals or by
00:26:00
the the way they're managed and that's
00:26:02
very ineffective for the farmer it costs
00:26:05
a lot to rear up a young cow and to have
00:26:08
it have its first calf it's not very
00:26:09
efficient in terms of sustainability so
00:26:12
I think if they're not convinced just
00:26:13
because they're a farmer and genuinely
00:26:15
interested and understanding that the
00:26:18
easier their cows work or their pigs or
00:26:20
their chickens it's good for them in the
00:26:22
long run then you have to come in and
00:26:24
and use a bit of motivational studies of
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how this will affect them economically
00:26:29
and make them see that okay it's not
00:26:32
like lameness or an injury or disease
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but these are having many knock-on
00:26:37
effects and in the end this is affecting
00:26:39
your production
00:26:40
and your profitability on your farm
00:26:50
go ahead Harry
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adding to that we see some
00:26:56
Dairy companies for instance that uh
00:27:00
use the welfare quality scheme
00:27:03
for their producers
00:27:07
and then they use when they applied this
00:27:11
on their Farms they get the next uh
00:27:15
add-on financially to their milk price
00:27:20
that is happening in uh Finland for
00:27:23
instance and then uh in Spain so things
00:27:28
can be economically viable
00:27:32
when farmers get uh
00:27:34
a bit more money for the
00:27:38
use of these measures
00:27:41
so that is that is developing I think
00:27:44
but it is a
00:27:45
very slow
00:27:52
okay we have two more minutes left are
00:27:54
there any other questions or comments
00:28:03
everyone seems content
00:28:08
but he has to go off to their next
00:28:09
meetings I think it's very nice to have
00:28:12
the short seminars yeah
00:28:15
I I see that you said and I think it's
00:28:18
very important that good welfare
00:28:21
welfare is a matter of animal it's not a
00:28:24
matter of system I think it's important
00:28:26
for our for the whole project we have
00:28:28
through Pathways and uh it was a good to
00:28:31
uh
00:28:32
to say that again
00:28:36
thank you it was a nice presentation you
00:28:39
know
00:28:39
thank you very much
00:28:41
thank you again Professor Keeling and
00:28:44
thank you all for attending
00:28:46
and have a great rest of your day
00:28:50
thank you very much bye bye everybody
00:28:52
thanks a lot thank you goodbye
00:28:54
thanks bye-bye
00:28:58
[Music]
