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It's been 5 years since China imposed
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the so-called national security law on
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Hong Kong. Since then, it's been used to
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arrest more than 350 pro-democracy
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activists and political figures accused
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of subversion and encouraging secession.
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The city enjoyed substantial autonomy
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from Beijing before the law was
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introduced. Now, Hong Kong's last active
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opposition group has announced that it
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is closing down.
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Well, Eric Yan Hoai is a research fellow
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at the Georgetown Center for Asian Law
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in the United States. He joins us from
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Washington, DC. Welcome to DW. Is that
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it now? Is that the end of Hong Kong's
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pro-democracy movement?
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The disbandment of the League of Social
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Democrats uh yesterday uh clearly shows
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that uh there it is quite impossible for
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any formal political opposition forces
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to continue operating in Hong Kong and
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it seems uh in the past prodemocracy
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movement relied on the people as well as
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organizations and now these
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organizations are gone due to various
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reasons including mounting political
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pressure from Beijing and Hong Kong
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governments.
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And now the pro-democracy movement in
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Hong Kong is seems being very difficult
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to revive under this situation in the
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short term.
So difficult to revive in
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Hong Kong. Does that mean is it is it
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now done completely or does it continue
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from outside the territory?
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It is quite uh impossible for people to
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mobilize in Hong Kong inside Hong Kong
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because the government has been using
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various means to crack down on
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pro-democracy and critical voices and
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most of the pro-democracy initiatives
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are now setting are now set up overseas
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including the rise of Hong Kong diaspora
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in many liberal democracies. But having
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said that, in response, the Hong Kong
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government also used the uh bounty
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warrants signed off by the courts to
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target uh dissident overseas and to
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harass not just these overseas exile
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advers but their family members who are
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still living in Hong Kong.
Okay. So in
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person in the territory, the movement is
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now effectively dead and uh activists
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are being pursued overseas. So it sounds
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like that's it. It's done. Beijing has
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won.
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That is exactly what Beijing wants is to
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silence Hong Kong in uh in the face of
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being uh merely economic city. And
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anyone in Hong Kong if they wished to be
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a pro-democracy activifist, they could
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be stigmatized. They may lost their
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jobs. They could not find uh employers
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or they will continue be surveiled uh by
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uh people using the national security
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hotline to report their behavior and
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eventually they could get into trouble
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because of all these uh uh practices of
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a police state in Hong Kong.
Okay. And
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that's that. So life is is is hard for
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people who are politically active. What
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about people who aren't politically
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active? What is everyday life in Hong
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Kong like for them?
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In the past, even for people who are not
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active in the pro-democracy movement,
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they could freely ex express their views
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on government policies and to be
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vigilant to government misconduct and
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they would bring it to the public
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domain. But now because of the national
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security law enactment, including the
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government's frequent use of charges
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like sedition, secession, or colluding
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with foreign forces, people in Hong Kong
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were afraid of expressing their
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sentiment as well as their opinions
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towards unpopular government policies.
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This is not this is this is not
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beneficial to both the government of
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Hong Kong as well as to the people. when
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you cannot navigate the public
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grieviance or the public sentiment, the
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government would lose their uh their the
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government would lose their capacity to
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know the demands of the people, to know
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the needs of the people and eventually
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tensions would rise. So it it sounds
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like, if I understand you correctly,
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Hong Kong has gone from being this sort
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of special island of capitalism within
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China to conditions there, political
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conditions there being worse in Hong
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Kong than the rest of mainland China.
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It is quite ironic that China repeatedly
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uh asked and called Hong Kong to remain
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its openness, its common law system and
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its market economy. But in the end
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because of the national security law, it
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is losing attractions from western
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counterparts. And now Hong Kong has only
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become is has become uh sanctions uh hub
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for authoritarian regimes like Russia or
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Iran to uh to use Hong Kong as support
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for their for their economic and
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financial benefits. And in this sense
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the capitalism in Hong Kong is now
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becoming more authoritarian rather than
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being a liberal and democratic state.
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Right? So, so it's it's just the
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authoritarian um regimes now who are
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capitalizing on Hong Kong's
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on the idea of Hong Kong being a little
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slice of of capitalism within China.
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This is now for the for the for the
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repressive regimes rather than uh the
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free markets around the world.
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It is not how we understand a free
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market where free competition can exist,
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where free information can can flourish
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in uh in this market economy. But rather
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we have seen actually there were
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incidents when China was displeased with
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deals made by famous Hong Kong companies
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like CK Hutcherson when they attempt to
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sell the Palama their ports in Palama
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and draw a big has a big fire by China.
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Okay, thanks for talking us through
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that, Eric. Eric Yangho live from the
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Georgetown Center for Asian Law. Thank
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you so much.
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Thank you.
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And we can now speak to Emily Lao. She's
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a former chair of the Democratic Party,
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which was once the flagship in the
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pro-democracy camp in Hong Kong, but has
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essentially been forced to dissolve.
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Emily joins us from Hong Kong. Emily,
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what are your thoughts uh for your
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colleagues of the League of Social
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Democrats today?
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Well, of course, I feel very sad and
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very upset and uh it's really it's
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really terrible that you know uh civil
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society
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has well I wouldn't say completely
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collapsed otherwise I would not be able
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to talk to you right now but it seems uh
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many voices have been shut out and as
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you said my party is in the process of
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closing down so it is it is very sad and
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uh under Beijing's policy of one country
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two systems uh Hong Kong people are
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supposed to enjoy the right of forming
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political parties taking part in
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elections, press freedom
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and all those things which we have
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enjoyed uh since 1997 for a number of
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years but then in the past few years uh
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you know things have gone
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you know
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quite wrong and uh many people have
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fled, many are in prison and people kept
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asking me how come I have not yet been
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arrested. So it is um the atmosphere is
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not very good at all.
Do you fear
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personally to get arrested anytime soon?
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Well, of course, if I tell you now that
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I will not be arrested,
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I think you will laugh. No, but of
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course, I'm not that afraid. Otherwise,
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I would have left Hong Kong. But
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anything can happen to me. And uh I
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always remember what Professor Johannes
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Chan of the Hong Kong University Law
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Faculty said. Johannes is now in the UK.
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is that if you don't agree with the law,
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you can criticize it, but don't break
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the law. I try not to, but as many
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people have said, they just don't know
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where the red lines are. So, you may
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think you have not broken the law, but
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others may think differently. So um well
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we do our best and I speak out when
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journalists here and overseas when they
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interview me I speak my mind and uh hope
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for the best.
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Many of your colleagues uh as you've
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mentioned have been detained or
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imprisoned. Can you tell us about uh
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some of those cases?
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Yeah, there are many of them. Some from
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my party and many from other groups and
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so on. And uh they have been there for
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many many years over a thousand days and
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more. And some have not yet even got
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their trial like the case of the
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patriotic alliance which uh form uh
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which organized the candlelight vigil on
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June 4th every year in Victoria Park
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attended by hundreds of thousands of
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people and uh their case subverting the
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state. uh the trial may may begin in
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November but in the meantime some of
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them have been locked up for over a
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thousand days so sometimes you say well
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justice delayed is justice denied it is
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very sad and I try to visit my friends
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in jail I try to go to court when the
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trials take place and to meet their
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relatives and friends to support them I
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think that's the least we can do and to
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talk to the international community and
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uh but I can tell you people feel very
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stressed and some of them are quite
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frightened.
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Do you think the pro-democracy movement
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in Hong Kong is dead?
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Well, I don't think it's dead, but uh I
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think we cannot take part in elections.
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But as I said, I'm still talking to you
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in my capacity as former chair of the
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Democratic Party and former Democratic
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Party legislator.
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So, uh, we do our best. Never say never.
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I mean, if you say the situation here is
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not good, of course it isn't, but it's
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not half as bad as Gaza or as Ukraine or
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as many countries in Africa and so on.
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So, um, well, we do our best and we try.
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We hope to fight for a free and
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democratic Hong Kong. I may not see it
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in my lifetime, but others will carry
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on.
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U, in hindsight,
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very briefly, did the democratic
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movement in Hong Kong, you and your
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friends, ever stand a chance of winning
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against China?
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Maybe not. We are so small, but we do
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our best and we're doing it in the
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context of one country, two systems, a
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policy that Beijing gave us. I didn't
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write that. Beijing promised us that
and
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they told the UN and told the
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international community, we think we are
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acting in accordance with that, but so
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many people ended up in jail. It's
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terrible.
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Emily Lao, thank you very much.
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Thank you.
