U.G. Krishnamurti - What Thinking Is? Why Do We Think?

00:25:46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9olyqhwf2y4

Resumo

TLDRIn a conversation with Jeffrey Mishlove, UG Krishnamurti discusses the idea that the mind is not an independent entity but an illusion created by thought. He argues that concepts such as the self, soul, and psyche are artificial constructs maintained through generations of accumulated knowledge. According to him, thought gives the false sense of separation from nature, perpetuating human problems. Krishnamurti suggests that all spiritual and material pursuits are fundamentally materialistic and argues that these efforts are based on the false premise of an individual mind or self. By separating from the totality of nature through thought, humans have created ecological and personal chaos, but in reality, life is a continuous flow without true boundaries. Despite the appearance of problems, he believes that solutions often exacerbate issues, and what society perceives as the mind is simply a self-perpetuating structure without individual existence.

Conclusões

  • 🧠 Mind as an illusion: Krishnamurti emphasizes that the mind is not an independent reality but an illusion created by thought.
  • 🧍‍♂️ No independent self: He argues against the independent existence of entities like the self or psyche, viewing them as constructs of thought.
  • 🧩 Integrate with nature: Suggesting that humans falsely see themselves as separate from nature, leading to ecological disharmony.
  • 💭 Thought as reaction: Describes thought as a reactive, not creative force, like a computer responding to stimuli.
  • 🔄 Continuous life: Asserts life has no beginning or end, emphasizing a continuous existence subject to thought-created divisions.
  • 🌍 World mind concept: Introduces the idea of a 'world mind,' the collective human culture and thought perpetuating illusions.
  • 🔄 Problems from solutions: Claims societal efforts to find solutions create the very problems they try to solve.
  • 📚 Knowledge traps: Discusses knowledge as a trap perpetuating the illusion of a separate self or entity.
  • 🧘 Spiritual materialism: Equates spiritual goals to materialistic ones, funneling through the same paradigm of thought.
  • 🌱 Unity with nature: Discusses the necessity for humans to realize their intrinsic unity with nature, overcoming thought-induced separateness.

Linha do tempo

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    Jeffrey Mishlove introduces UG Krishnamurti, discussing the concept of the mind as an illusion rather than an entity separate from the body. UG argues the mind is not real, equating the brain to a computer merely reacting to stimuli. He challenges the longstanding belief in entities like the soul and suggests that obedience to these ideas is why people struggle to accept his views.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    UG explains that our understanding of concepts like self and mind comes from inherited knowledge rather than direct experience. He contends that self-consciousness distinguishes humans from other species but emphasizes the futility of creating a divide between humans and nature. UG argues that most of humanity's problems are illusory, arising from solutions proposed based on false assumptions.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    UG discusses the "world mind" as the collective human consciousness that perpetuates individual identity for continuity. He asserts the body cannot perceive itself without external knowledge. He highlights the irony that attempts to understand objects, like one's own hand, rely on cultural knowledge rather than inherent understanding.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    UG claims thought perpetuates itself not to solve problems but to maintain status. Knowledge, according to UG, traps humanity in a cycle of seeking solutions to fabricated problems. He emphasizes that both material and spiritual goals are influenced by non-existent thoughts, which only serve self-preservation and create separation from nature.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:46

    UG argues thought creates the illusion of a separate existence with a beginning and end. He challenges the scientific consensus of reality, proposing that timelessness and continuity are fundamental truths. UG concludes that humans are trapped by thought, fostering separation and discontent. He claims the very mechanism (thought) humans rely on to achieve clarity is inherently flawed and self-serving.

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Perguntas frequentes

  • What is UG Krishnamurti's view on the mind?

    UG Krishnamurti believes that the mind is not an independent entity but an illusion created by thought.

  • Does UG believe in the concept of a soul or self?

    No, UG Krishnamurti suggests that concepts like the soul, self, or psyche are constructs of thought and do not have independent existence.

  • How does UG describe the brain's function?

    He describes the brain as a reactor, not a creator, comparing it to a computer that responds to stimuli.

  • What does UG Krishnamurti say about spiritual and material goals?

    He argues that both spiritual and material goals are achieved through thought and are essentially materialistic.

  • How does UG relate thought to nature?

    He believes that thought creates the illusion of separateness from the totality of nature.

  • What is UG's stance on ecological problems?

    UG suggests that ecological problems arise because humans mistakenly view themselves as separate and superior to nature.

  • How does UG view the concept of knowledge in relation to self?

    UG argues that the concept of self is created and perpetuated by accumulated knowledge.

  • What does UG think about the beginning and end of life?

    He suggests that life is continuous without a beginning or end; these concepts are creations of thought.

  • How does UG Krishnamurti view solutions to problems?

    He believes that solutions often create problems and that the real issue is accepting non-existent problems.

  • How does UG define the 'world mind'?

    The 'world mind' is the aggregate of all human thoughts and cultures, which perpetuate the illusion of individual minds.

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Rolagem automática:
  • 00:00:00
    hello and welcome I'm Jeffrey Mishlove
  • 00:00:02
    today we're going to be examining the
  • 00:00:04
    mind not as an object of reality but as
  • 00:00:07
    an illusion as a myth with me is mr. ug
  • 00:00:11
    Krishnamurti a philosopher and world
  • 00:00:14
    traveler ug is the author of several
  • 00:00:17
    books based on his conversations one is
  • 00:00:19
    called the mystique of enlightenment and
  • 00:00:22
    the other is mind is a myth he sometimes
  • 00:00:25
    thought of as an anti guru as a man who
  • 00:00:28
    defies all definition as a reluctant
  • 00:00:31
    sage welcome ug thank you it's a
  • 00:00:34
    pleasure to be with you in your thinking
  • 00:00:38
    if I can call it that you you seem to
  • 00:00:40
    suggest that but the mind isn't real in
  • 00:00:43
    the sense that there's no mind separate
  • 00:00:45
    from the body yeah what is there is only
  • 00:00:49
    the body where is mind if there is a
  • 00:00:55
    mind is it separate from or distinct
  • 00:00:58
    from the activity of the brain so they
  • 00:01:05
    it is very difficult to deal with the
  • 00:01:09
    question of mind is if we are only
  • 00:01:10
    familiar with the definitions the the
  • 00:01:17
    topic is mind is a myth but the series
  • 00:01:20
    you have here is called thinking aloud
  • 00:01:25
    thinking aloud or silently brings into
  • 00:01:31
    the picture a very fundamental question
  • 00:01:36
    what thinking is and why do we think
  • 00:01:41
    these questions arise from the
  • 00:01:46
    assumption that the thoughts are self
  • 00:01:52
    generated and spontaneous
  • 00:01:56
    but actually the brain is only a reactor
  • 00:02:02
    not a creator it is very difficult to
  • 00:02:06
    accept this because we have for
  • 00:02:09
    centuries being made to believe or
  • 00:02:14
    brainwashed that is very difficult to
  • 00:02:19
    accept my statement that there is there
  • 00:02:21
    are no thoughts at all well you seem to
  • 00:02:23
    be taking a position which we would
  • 00:02:26
    categorize as being very materialistic
  • 00:02:28
    and very mechanistic that the brain is
  • 00:02:30
    nothing more than a machine or a
  • 00:02:32
    computer it is actually a computer but
  • 00:02:36
    we are naughty not ready to accept it
  • 00:02:38
    for centuries we have been made to
  • 00:02:41
    believe that there is an entity there is
  • 00:02:43
    an AI that there is itself that there is
  • 00:02:45
    a psyche that there is a mind and so on
  • 00:02:48
    the soul whatsoever spirit if you accept
  • 00:02:52
    the fact it may not be a factor to you
  • 00:02:56
    we may not accept it even most probably
  • 00:02:58
    reject it and most people will not
  • 00:03:01
    hesitate to reject that there is no such
  • 00:03:04
    a thing as a soul and soul is created by
  • 00:03:08
    the thinking of man we have been fed on
  • 00:03:11
    this kind of a bunk for centuries they
  • 00:03:14
    died for to be changeable do all die of
  • 00:03:16
    starvation we have many words for things
  • 00:03:19
    that are intangible we talk about love
  • 00:03:21
    or honesty or integrity as if they were
  • 00:03:24
    real objects and and yet they're not
  • 00:03:26
    objects so much as as qualities or
  • 00:03:28
    process yes I'm afraid we are lifting
  • 00:03:31
    away from the basic question if you do
  • 00:03:37
    not want it thing is there a thinking
  • 00:03:41
    one thing and thinking go together and
  • 00:03:46
    thought is matter you see so you use
  • 00:03:52
    thought to achieve either material or
  • 00:03:55
    spiritual goals but unfortunately we
  • 00:03:58
    place the spiritual ghosts in a higher
  • 00:04:00
    level and consider ourselves to be very
  • 00:04:03
    superior to those who use the thought to
  • 00:04:06
    achieve material goals
  • 00:04:08
    so actually whether you call it
  • 00:04:10
    spiritual or material even the so-called
  • 00:04:14
    spiritual values are materialistic in
  • 00:04:17
    their values so it is matter
  • 00:04:20
    thought is matter and as I said at the
  • 00:04:25
    very beginning thought is not a creator
  • 00:04:29
    of thought it is responding to the
  • 00:04:31
    stimuli and if the what is there is only
  • 00:04:35
    the stimulus and response even the fact
  • 00:04:40
    that there is a response to the stimulus
  • 00:04:42
    is something which cannot be experienced
  • 00:04:45
    by us except through the help of thought
  • 00:04:48
    which creates a division between the
  • 00:04:51
    stimulus and response actually the
  • 00:04:54
    stimulus and response is a unitary
  • 00:04:56
    moment you can't even say that there is
  • 00:04:58
    a sensation and you have no way of
  • 00:05:01
    experiencing even the so-called
  • 00:05:03
    sensations we think we experience them
  • 00:05:08
    all the time cannot be experienced by us
  • 00:05:11
    except for the knowledge we have of the
  • 00:05:14
    sensations and we infer from all of this
  • 00:05:17
    that there is a self that there is a
  • 00:05:19
    mind that is mediating between the
  • 00:05:21
    stimulus and the response what is there
  • 00:05:23
    is only the knowledge we have of the
  • 00:05:25
    self the knowledge that we have gathered
  • 00:05:29
    from passed down to us from generation
  • 00:05:31
    to generation and through the help of
  • 00:05:34
    this knowledge we create what we call
  • 00:05:36
    cell and then experience itself is
  • 00:05:39
    separate from the functioning of this
  • 00:05:42
    body so he is there such a thing as
  • 00:05:45
    itself is there such a thing as I for me
  • 00:05:50
    the only I is the first person singular
  • 00:05:53
    pronoun I use I to make the conversation
  • 00:05:58
    simpler and call you you and I but there
  • 00:06:02
    is simply what we call I is only a first
  • 00:06:09
    person singular pronoun
  • 00:06:12
    I don't know if we it's a part of speech
  • 00:06:15
    yes other than that is there any such
  • 00:06:19
    thing as AI is there any such thing as
  • 00:06:21
    self is there any such entity different
  • 00:06:28
    from the functioning of this living
  • 00:06:29
    organism see somewhere along the line of
  • 00:06:32
    evolution I can't even make a definitive
  • 00:06:35
    statement and say that there is such a
  • 00:06:37
    thing as evolution but we assume in
  • 00:06:40
    presume that there is such a thing as
  • 00:06:43
    evolution it's somewhere along the line
  • 00:06:47
    the human species experience this is
  • 00:06:52
    self consciousness which doesn't exist
  • 00:06:54
    in the other species we have on this
  • 00:06:57
    planet you seem to be suggesting it's a
  • 00:06:59
    product of our language not necessarily
  • 00:07:01
    the product of language today the very
  • 00:07:05
    experience of what we call what
  • 00:07:09
    separates us from the totality of things
  • 00:07:12
    then the problem is and that is what I
  • 00:07:16
    want to emphasize the whole nature is a
  • 00:07:19
    single unit this man cannot separate
  • 00:07:24
    himself from the totality of what we
  • 00:07:27
    call nature unfortunately through the
  • 00:07:30
    help of this self-consciousness which
  • 00:07:32
    occurred somewhere along the line he
  • 00:07:34
    accorded to himself a superior place and
  • 00:07:37
    placed himself on a higher level and
  • 00:07:40
    treated himself and we still continue to
  • 00:07:42
    treat as superior to the other species
  • 00:07:44
    of life that we have on this planet that
  • 00:07:47
    is the reason why we have created this
  • 00:07:49
    disharmony that is why we have created
  • 00:07:52
    this tremendous problems ecological
  • 00:07:55
    problems and other problems actually man
  • 00:07:59
    or whatever you want to call him cannot
  • 00:08:02
    be separated from the totality of nature
  • 00:08:05
    that is where we have created one of the
  • 00:08:09
    greatest blunders and that unfortunately
  • 00:08:12
    is the tragedy of man don't you yourself
  • 00:08:15
    say at times that there really is no
  • 00:08:17
    problem that since we are part of the
  • 00:08:19
    totality of nature there nothing really
  • 00:08:21
    is wrong even if we're doomed
  • 00:08:23
    yes but we are not ready to accept the
  • 00:08:26
    fact that there is no problem actually
  • 00:08:29
    there is no problem but we have only
  • 00:08:31
    solutions offer to us and we accept the
  • 00:08:34
    solutions offered to us by those whom we
  • 00:08:39
    consider to be in position of the truth
  • 00:08:41
    imposition of the wisdom and those
  • 00:08:45
    solutions do not help us to solve the
  • 00:08:48
    problems at all we see so we replaced
  • 00:08:50
    one solution with another solution the
  • 00:08:52
    problem is the solution and the solution
  • 00:08:55
    has not helped us to solve the non
  • 00:08:57
    existing problem so actually it is the
  • 00:09:00
    solution that has created the problem
  • 00:09:02
    and we are not ready to throw the
  • 00:09:04
    solution out of the window because we
  • 00:09:07
    have tremendous confidence in those who
  • 00:09:10
    have offered these solutions early
  • 00:09:13
    things that will free us from the
  • 00:09:15
    problems that the solution has created
  • 00:09:18
    for us what you seem to be saying is
  • 00:09:21
    that we think that the solution to the
  • 00:09:24
    problems of the world is that we can use
  • 00:09:25
    our mind we can act rationally we can
  • 00:09:27
    develop ourselves we can become
  • 00:09:29
    enlightened we can get involved in
  • 00:09:31
    social programs and therefore we can
  • 00:09:33
    solve the problems of the world which
  • 00:09:35
    you're suggesting really only exists as
  • 00:09:39
    problems because we believe we have a
  • 00:09:41
    solution for them yeah what I'm trying
  • 00:09:43
    to suggest is that there is no such
  • 00:09:46
    thing as your mind and my mind for
  • 00:09:50
    purposes of convenience and for want of
  • 00:09:52
    a a better and more adequate word I can
  • 00:09:56
    use the world mind the world mind is the
  • 00:10:03
    totality of man's thoughts feelings and
  • 00:10:07
    experiences passed on to us the world my
  • 00:10:09
    world mine and it is that that has
  • 00:10:12
    created you and me for the sole main
  • 00:10:15
    purpose of maintaining its status for
  • 00:10:18
    its continuity that world mind if I may
  • 00:10:22
    use that word is a self-perpetuating one
  • 00:10:25
    and it's only interest is to maintain
  • 00:10:28
    its continuity it can maintain its
  • 00:10:31
    continuity only through the creation of
  • 00:10:33
    what we call the individual minds
  • 00:10:35
    your mind and my mind so without the
  • 00:10:38
    help of the knowledge you have no way of
  • 00:10:42
    experiencing yourself as an entity you
  • 00:10:46
    see this is so-called entity the eye the
  • 00:10:48
    self the soul the psyche or whatever
  • 00:10:51
    word you want to use is created by that
  • 00:10:54
    and through the help of that you will be
  • 00:10:57
    able to experience these things and so
  • 00:11:00
    what we are caught a piece in this
  • 00:11:03
    vicious circle that the knowledge gives
  • 00:11:06
    you the experience and the experience
  • 00:11:08
    strengthens and fortifies the knowledge
  • 00:11:10
    you seem to be suggesting if I
  • 00:11:12
    understand you correctly then that I'm a
  • 00:11:15
    body here and a brain and my brain
  • 00:11:17
    serves as some kind of an antenna I'm
  • 00:11:19
    receptive to these thoughts that are
  • 00:11:21
    coming to me from the world mind and
  • 00:11:23
    they are they give me the illusion that
  • 00:11:25
    I am an individual self that I have a
  • 00:11:28
    mind even yes but is it possible for you
  • 00:11:31
    let alone the mind or the entity or the
  • 00:11:34
    eye or the self or the soul or whatever
  • 00:11:36
    you want to call it to experience your
  • 00:11:39
    body as a body without the help of that
  • 00:11:43
    knowledge you see for example you look
  • 00:11:46
    at your hand and is this hand you verse
  • 00:11:53
    first of all the hand is created by the
  • 00:11:56
    knowledge you have of that hmm well what
  • 00:12:00
    you say reminds me of experiments with
  • 00:12:02
    people who have been blinded and then
  • 00:12:03
    their operations are performed and they
  • 00:12:06
    see for the first time and they don't
  • 00:12:07
    know anything they have to be taught to
  • 00:12:10
    recognize the things that they see
  • 00:12:11
    without the mediation of the mind if the
  • 00:12:14
    mind is not trained somehow to recognize
  • 00:12:17
    this you're right oh it would all be
  • 00:12:18
    meaningless you see we have only these
  • 00:12:21
    senses no these sensory perceptions do
  • 00:12:25
    not say that this is a hand is it the
  • 00:12:29
    knowledge that we have tells us that
  • 00:12:33
    this is a hand and that this is your
  • 00:12:35
    hand and not my hand otherwise it's just
  • 00:12:39
    a patch of color and form no you don't
  • 00:12:41
    even look at this hand you have no way
  • 00:12:43
    of looking at it you see except through
  • 00:12:46
    the knowledge you have of this hand this
  • 00:12:48
    knowledge
  • 00:12:49
    is put into us till the course of her
  • 00:12:51
    life and you play with a child you tell
  • 00:12:55
    them and show me her hand show me or no
  • 00:12:57
    so show me what T to show me your face
  • 00:12:59
    and what is your name this is how we
  • 00:13:03
    build up you see the identity of the
  • 00:13:06
    individuals relationship with his hand
  • 00:13:10
    with his nose with his eyes and with the
  • 00:13:12
    world around you see so do we look at
  • 00:13:15
    anything you see this so-called looking
  • 00:13:18
    is a bloody experience of viewers but
  • 00:13:21
    you have no way of looking at anything
  • 00:13:23
    at all except for the knowledge so it is
  • 00:13:26
    necessary for us to have that knowledge
  • 00:13:29
    otherwise it is not possible for us to
  • 00:13:32
    function sanely and intelligently it
  • 00:13:35
    helps us to function sanely and
  • 00:13:37
    intelligently and we have to accept the
  • 00:13:40
    reality of the world as it is imposed on
  • 00:13:42
    us otherwise we have no way of
  • 00:13:46
    functioning sanely and intelligently we
  • 00:13:48
    will end up in the loony bin
  • 00:13:50
    singing merry melodies and Looney Tunes
  • 00:13:52
    so it is very essential for us to accept
  • 00:13:55
    the reality of the world as it is
  • 00:13:57
    imposed on us by culture by society or
  • 00:14:00
    whatever you want to call it and leave
  • 00:14:02
    it at that and treat it as functional in
  • 00:14:04
    value and it cannot help us to
  • 00:14:08
    experience the reality of anything but
  • 00:14:11
    there may be a mind independent of
  • 00:14:14
    culture there may be a mind and
  • 00:14:16
    independent of any knowledge that we
  • 00:14:18
    have that which receives culture that is
  • 00:14:21
    an assumption on our part that there is
  • 00:14:23
    a mindless as I said before the totality
  • 00:14:27
    of your experiences feelings thoughts is
  • 00:14:33
    there any such thing as a totality of
  • 00:14:35
    thoughts feelings and experiences we
  • 00:14:37
    assume that there is a totality of we
  • 00:14:39
    were thoughts feelings and experiences
  • 00:14:40
    are there thoughts even that I questions
  • 00:14:44
    there are no thoughts but what is there
  • 00:14:47
    is only the activity about thoughts what
  • 00:14:52
    we call thinking is only a dialectical
  • 00:14:55
    thinking about thinking itself we use
  • 00:14:58
    thoughts the non existing thoughts
  • 00:15:01
    to achieve a goal to accomplish attained
  • 00:15:05
    a goal whether it is material or
  • 00:15:07
    spiritual it really doesn't matter so we
  • 00:15:10
    need this to achieve our goal so if you
  • 00:15:13
    don't want it thing there is no thinking
  • 00:15:16
    at all whether you want this material
  • 00:15:18
    goal or through ritual goal or whether
  • 00:15:20
    you want to be an enlightened man or a
  • 00:15:22
    god man or whether you want to run away
  • 00:15:25
    with the most beautiful girl living next
  • 00:15:27
    door to you the society may condemn such
  • 00:15:29
    a thing but basically the instrument
  • 00:15:32
    which you use to achieve your goal and
  • 00:15:35
    act to see to achieve your goal is only
  • 00:15:40
    through the help of thought otherwise
  • 00:15:41
    any thought that is born out of that it
  • 00:15:45
    creates misery for us because any
  • 00:15:49
    thought that is born out of thought is
  • 00:15:51
    destructive in its nature because it is
  • 00:15:54
    interested in protecting itself thought
  • 00:15:56
    is a protective mechanism it isolates
  • 00:15:59
    you from the totality of the nature
  • 00:16:02
    which cannot be separated from you so
  • 00:16:05
    the difficulty here is that it is
  • 00:16:13
    impossible for you to accept that you
  • 00:16:17
    are not separate from the totality of
  • 00:16:19
    things then what you call nature that
  • 00:16:23
    every form of life we see is also part
  • 00:16:27
    of this nature and when I use the word
  • 00:16:30
    nature you see I used in the general
  • 00:16:32
    sense you see not that I am a special
  • 00:16:34
    insight into nature that others don't
  • 00:16:36
    have you are not separate from the
  • 00:16:40
    nature the nature means the world around
  • 00:16:42
    you the only the species that we have on
  • 00:16:46
    this planet our integral part of this
  • 00:16:51
    what we call nature it cannot be
  • 00:16:54
    separated from that but unfortunately
  • 00:16:56
    through our thinking we have succeeded
  • 00:16:58
    in separating ourselves and through the
  • 00:17:01
    help of this knowledge we continue to
  • 00:17:03
    maintain the continuity of the knowledge
  • 00:17:05
    and and that is the reason why we have
  • 00:17:11
    invented all this the integrity becoming
  • 00:17:13
    one with
  • 00:17:14
    nature and all that kind of thing and we
  • 00:17:16
    are not going to succeed because we
  • 00:17:18
    don't understand and realize what is it
  • 00:17:22
    that separates you from the totality of
  • 00:17:24
    things is the thought and the thought
  • 00:17:27
    cannot be used to bring about an
  • 00:17:29
    integral reality basically we are all
  • 00:17:32
    integrally United and unfortunately
  • 00:17:35
    through our thinking we have separated
  • 00:17:37
    ourselves and we are acting from this
  • 00:17:40
    point of separateness and it is this
  • 00:17:43
    that is responsible for the chaos in
  • 00:17:45
    your personal lives where we chaos in
  • 00:17:47
    the world around you
  • 00:17:49
    I am giving a talk but well you've
  • 00:17:52
    certainly addressed many ideas and
  • 00:17:54
    stimulated many thoughts in my mind
  • 00:17:57
    maybe they passed through I don't know
  • 00:18:00
    let's step back for a moment you you
  • 00:18:03
    seem to have said that all that we know
  • 00:18:06
    is by virtue of thought and yet we can't
  • 00:18:09
    even no thought itself because every
  • 00:18:11
    time we look at thought we don't see
  • 00:18:13
    thought we just see thoughts about
  • 00:18:15
    thought it's even the thought we are
  • 00:18:17
    talking about is created by the
  • 00:18:19
    knowledge that is given to us so the
  • 00:18:23
    thought is a self-perpetuating mechanism
  • 00:18:27
    and when I use the word self I don't use
  • 00:18:30
    it in the sense in which we use used by
  • 00:18:34
    the philosophers and metaphysicians like
  • 00:18:36
    a smell starter or Auto fluctuation even
  • 00:18:40
    it is not as see the body is not
  • 00:18:42
    interested in that at all the actions of
  • 00:18:45
    the body or responses to the stimuli and
  • 00:18:48
    it has no separate independent existence
  • 00:18:51
    of its own
  • 00:18:52
    so unfortunately time is the one that
  • 00:18:55
    has created the beginning and the end
  • 00:18:57
    and it is interested in permanence
  • 00:19:01
    whereas the functioning of the body is
  • 00:19:04
    immortal in its own way because it has
  • 00:19:06
    no beginning it has no beginning it is
  • 00:19:08
    not born it so it has no depth you see
  • 00:19:11
    so there is a depth to the thought but
  • 00:19:15
    not to the body and I don't know if I
  • 00:19:17
    make well let me try and paraphrase you
  • 00:19:20
    seem to be suggesting a quite a fabric
  • 00:19:23
    of many intertwine notions here and
  • 00:19:26
    of them as that thought tends to
  • 00:19:28
    perpetuate itself they does not want to
  • 00:19:31
    come to an end the mind wishes the mind
  • 00:19:34
    doesn't exist but even so it wishes to
  • 00:19:37
    believe it is immortal it is a marked
  • 00:19:39
    you know it is interested in creating an
  • 00:19:41
    artificial immortality of an entity
  • 00:19:45
    souls self or whatever you want to call
  • 00:19:47
    it it knows in a way that it is coming
  • 00:19:51
    to an end somewhere along the line and
  • 00:19:54
    it's a survival and it's continuity it's
  • 00:19:58
    status code depends upon the continuity
  • 00:20:01
    of the body but body is not in any way
  • 00:20:05
    involved with the thought because it has
  • 00:20:06
    no beginning it has no end it is the
  • 00:20:09
    thought that has created the two points
  • 00:20:11
    see this is the birth and that is the
  • 00:20:14
    dentist so our illusion that we have a
  • 00:20:16
    mind is born out of fear not fear so we
  • 00:20:20
    do not want the fear to come to a name
  • 00:20:23
    because the end of the fear is the end
  • 00:20:25
    of the thought if the thought comes to
  • 00:20:27
    an end the body drops dead there what is
  • 00:20:32
    left after that is something the body
  • 00:20:35
    does not know for you I am alive and
  • 00:20:37
    dead I am talking not I am alive and not
  • 00:20:40
    dead because if I am responding to your
  • 00:20:43
    questions I'm answering to your
  • 00:20:45
    questions but there is nobody who is
  • 00:20:46
    talking hmm there's no you there there
  • 00:20:50
    is no there is nobody who is talking but
  • 00:20:52
    there is only talking mm-hmm it's just
  • 00:20:54
    like a tape recorder you see and you are
  • 00:20:56
    playing with the tape recorder and for
  • 00:21:00
    your own reasons and whatever comes out
  • 00:21:01
    of that is what you want to hear from
  • 00:21:03
    this tape recorder well you seem to be
  • 00:21:05
    taking a position almost equivalent to
  • 00:21:08
    that of the physicists who look at
  • 00:21:09
    matter and they look at atoms and
  • 00:21:11
    molecules and then particles and beneath
  • 00:21:13
    particles into quarks and finally they
  • 00:21:15
    say there's really nothing there you see
  • 00:21:16
    one of these days the scientists will
  • 00:21:19
    have to come true to the terms that they
  • 00:21:22
    are quest to find out what they call the
  • 00:21:26
    fundamental particle it is they don't
  • 00:21:30
    realize that the fundamental particle
  • 00:21:32
    does not exist and they are not ready to
  • 00:21:35
    accept that and once they come to terms
  • 00:21:37
    with that and accept that there is no
  • 00:21:39
    such thing as
  • 00:21:40
    fundamental particle and there is no
  • 00:21:43
    such thing as Bank great big bank
  • 00:21:45
    whatever they call it it is an exercise
  • 00:21:48
    in futility they will continue to devil
  • 00:21:51
    with that is you find out answers for
  • 00:21:53
    the question only for their Nobel Prize
  • 00:21:55
    but you were in it but you seem to be
  • 00:21:58
    saying that the body exists that the
  • 00:21:59
    brain exists and that nature exists but
  • 00:22:02
    that has no beginning and no end that's
  • 00:22:05
    all the time emphasizing mm-hmm so since
  • 00:22:07
    the body is not born so it has no end
  • 00:22:11
    see what well I I don't know when you
  • 00:22:15
    say the body is not born that that seems
  • 00:22:17
    to contradict it isn't talked to the
  • 00:22:19
    test created the body and established a
  • 00:22:22
    point and says it's born here and it's
  • 00:22:26
    going to end there so it is the thought
  • 00:22:27
    that has created the time factor I mean
  • 00:22:30
    what every cell was created from a
  • 00:22:32
    previous cell even the egg we don't know
  • 00:22:35
    the beginnings of a TC so the whole
  • 00:22:37
    concept of the Creator is redundant we
  • 00:22:42
    are caught up in the field of logical
  • 00:22:45
    thinking and that there is no beginning
  • 00:22:49
    that there is no end
  • 00:22:51
    it is something which shatters the whole
  • 00:22:54
    fabric the foundation of our logical
  • 00:22:57
    thinking yes it does so we are not ready
  • 00:22:59
    to accept that at all but I don't know
  • 00:23:02
    if the notion of no beginning and no end
  • 00:23:05
    I can see how that might apply to time
  • 00:23:07
    and space but not to the body of it its
  • 00:23:10
    body you talk as if it is separate from
  • 00:23:13
    the totality of the universe or totality
  • 00:23:16
    of nature or whatever you want to call
  • 00:23:18
    it it is the thought that has created
  • 00:23:20
    the body a separate entity and tells
  • 00:23:24
    that this has a beginning this has no
  • 00:23:26
    end you see this is this is the end that
  • 00:23:28
    is the beginning which it is created li
  • 00:23:30
    the space so thought creates the space
  • 00:23:33
    thought creates the time so it cannot
  • 00:23:37
    conceive of the possibility of anything
  • 00:23:39
    outside the field of space and thought
  • 00:23:41
    actually thought is the one that has
  • 00:23:44
    created this space and experiences the
  • 00:23:46
    space but actually there is no such
  • 00:23:49
    thing as a space at all but what is
  • 00:23:51
    there is
  • 00:23:52
    space time energy continuum hmm it is a
  • 00:23:57
    continuum but it has no end you see the
  • 00:24:00
    thought cannot conceive with the
  • 00:24:02
    possibility of the movement without a
  • 00:24:04
    beginning and without the same point
  • 00:24:06
    where it is going to arrive somewhere
  • 00:24:08
    sometime you sleep so there is the
  • 00:24:10
    problem of the thought so its actions
  • 00:24:14
    are limited to its perpetuation its
  • 00:24:16
    continuity its permanence
  • 00:24:18
    but anything it says about anything it
  • 00:24:21
    tries to talk about deal with our
  • 00:24:24
    experience the body it cannot because
  • 00:24:27
    it's something living thought is
  • 00:24:29
    something dead you seem to be saying if
  • 00:24:31
    I can summarize your thoughts that we
  • 00:24:33
    are trapped in the prison of our own
  • 00:24:35
    thoughts and this prison creates the
  • 00:24:38
    illusion that we are separate that we
  • 00:24:39
    are not part of nature and yet the
  • 00:24:41
    prison itself is also an illusion the
  • 00:24:44
    prison also he is created by the thought
  • 00:24:47
    and that is the reason why it is trying
  • 00:24:50
    to get out of that trap it has created
  • 00:24:53
    by itself you know there is a simile
  • 00:24:56
    given in one of the scriptures in India
  • 00:24:59
    the dog who picks up a bone try bone
  • 00:25:03
    there is nothing there and then it bites
  • 00:25:05
    you see and the bone hurts the gums and
  • 00:25:08
    the blood comes out of it and the dog
  • 00:25:11
    believes imagines experiences fields
  • 00:25:14
    whatever word you want to use that the
  • 00:25:17
    blood which is coming out of its own
  • 00:25:18
    gums is from the bone so that is the
  • 00:25:21
    kind of trap in which the whole
  • 00:25:24
    structure of thinking is caught up and
  • 00:25:27
    it there's all the time to get out of
  • 00:25:31
    that you see the trap it has created
  • 00:25:33
    that's the human predicament is the
  • 00:25:34
    human mind
  • 00:25:35
    ug yes thank you very much for being
  • 00:25:38
    with me we're out of time now all right
  • 00:25:39
    thank you very much it's been a pleasure
  • 00:25:41
    thank you and thank you for being with
  • 00:25:44
    us
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