FEU Public Intellectual Lecture Series | Prof. Rommel Banlaoi and Prof. Herman Kraft

01:10:08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP3efKZp3Pc

Summary

TLDRThe lecture series at the Far Eastern University, featuring Dr. Rommel Banlawi and Professor Hermann Kraft, delves into the concept of human security, examining its scope beyond traditional state security to include individual safety from various threats like poverty, environmental issues, and political instability. The discussion highlights the evolution of the concept since the 1994 UN Human Development Report and its application in the Philippines, notably under the current administration. The experts discuss the multifaceted challenges faced by the country, such as poverty, the drug war, and ongoing conflicts in Mindanao, emphasizing the importance of a comprehensive approach to addressing human security. They also explore the impact of President Duterte's policies, both domestically and in foreign relations, particularly his strategic pivot towards China, which involves balancing economic gains and national sovereignty concerns. The lecture concludes by stressing the need for nuanced public engagement and informed decision-making to tackle these complex issues effectively.

Takeaways

  • 🎓 The lecture focuses on redefining human security beyond state-centric views.
  • 🌍 Human security addresses various threats including poverty and environmental concerns.
  • 🇵🇭 The Philippines faces significant human security challenges like poverty and conflict.
  • 🤝 Effective human security requires cooperation at local and international levels.
  • 📊 Indicators such as the Human Security Index measure progress in this area.
  • 💼 Government strategies include both military and non-military solutions to security threats.
  • 🔄 Transition from traditional to human-centric security requires policy adjustments.
  • 🏛️ Political stability and peace are crucial for development and human security.
  • 🤔 Public engagement and informed discussion are essential for addressing these issues.
  • 💡 Human security policies should enhance individual well-being and societal resilience.

Timeline

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    The session is introduced as part of the Public Intellectual Lecture Series by Far Eastern University, focusing on human security from both national and international perspectives. The hosts introduce Dr. Ramel Banlawi and Professor Hermann Kraft, noting the need for a working definition of human security, considering both micro and macro levels of society.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Dr. Hermann Kraft explores the origin of the human security concept introduced by the 1994 UN Human Development Report, emphasizing the shift from state-centric national security to a focus on individuals' security. He notes this change was in response to state-induced insecurities and underscores the broader meaning of security, including economic and environmental components, beyond mere physical safety.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Prof. Kraft further explains how human security requires governments to build capacities that go beyond military and political institutions. There's an emphasis on providing a good quality of life for citizens, which includes addressing economic, environmental, and political security. He also mentions the Philippines' shift in security policy paralleling international human security concepts.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Dr. Ramel Banlawi discusses the comprehensive nature of human security, highlighting that threats come not only from external states but also from within, like poverty and governance issues. He distinguishes between traditional state-centric security and non-traditional human-centric security, pointing out that the latter covers issues like terrorism and organized crime.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    The conversation shifts to specific issues affecting Filipino human security. Poverty is highlighted as a primary concern influencing economic and food security. Dr. Banlawi talks about measuring security through indices, focusing on fulfilling basic human needs like livelihood and education as indicators of security. Safety and quality of life are emphasized as essential elements.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    The dialogue addresses the role of state responsibility, not only in economic but also in political security. Emphasis is placed on creating a secure living environment, with access to education and political rights, needed for good governance. The state's capacity to meet these needs is crucial for human security, transcending traditional national security paradigms.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    Dr. Banlawi outlines government measures to address security issues like poverty, terrorism, and insurgency, highlighting peace talks with groups like the Moro National Liberation Front. He mentions ongoing armed conflicts as challenges, with the government's comprehensive approach involving military action and economic development plans to assist affected regions.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    The topic dives deeper into regional conflicts in the Philippines, especially in Mindanao, where multiple groups cause ongoing instability. Dr. Banlawi explains that while peace agreements exist, challenges remain with new rebel and terrorist recruitments. Efforts to develop the region economically are discussed, emphasizing the interplay of peace and security in enabling development.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:45:00

    They discuss the critical link between peace and development, positing that lack of peace increases individuals' insecurity and hampers national progress. Emphasizing interconnectivity, Prof. Kraft explains how regional instability in Mindanao, a key food source, influences national economic conditions, advocating for the significance of peace in fostering development across the nation.

  • 00:45:00 - 00:50:00

    Discussion of Marawi exemplifies the complex interaction of military and peaceful responses to conflict. Despite military liberation, reconstruction efforts are delayed, causing civilian frustration and new recruits for armed groups. Issues such as land ownership and government promises contribute to ongoing tensions, demonstrating challenges in implementing effective post-conflict recovery.

  • 00:50:00 - 00:55:00

    The continuation of martial law in Mindanao raises questions about its effectiveness and the opinions of local communities. While some residents see martial law as a stabilizer, others feel oppressed, showing a divide in perceptions. The impact on local governance is tangible, altering traditional power dynamics and leading to discussions on long-term stability versus temporary measures.

  • 00:55:00 - 01:00:00

    Attention shifts to discussing the concentration of power in the Duterte administration, reflecting a populous dynamic prioritizing immediate crisis management. However, the implications for long-term political stability and the strengthening of democratic institutions are questioned. Short-term solutions are contrasted with the potential erosion of procedural governance, highlighting the populist shift.

  • 01:00:00 - 01:05:00

    Examining Duterte's authoritarian tendencies and the risks of centralizing power, the dialogue covers potential trade-offs, including weakened institutions and governance systems. It suggests that while such approaches might address immediate issues, they risk creating long-term political and institutional challenges. The key concern is balancing urgency with maintaining democratic processes.

  • 01:05:00 - 01:10:08

    The session concludes by examining the Duterte administration's foreign policy, which leans towards personal diplomacy, especially with China. The administration's shifting loyalties between major powers like the US and China are noted for strategic gains. However, the departure from multilateral norms and potential sovereignty trade-offs raise questions about long-term international relationships and policies.

Show more

Mind Map

Video Q&A

  • What is human security?

    Human security is a concept emphasizing the protection of individuals rather than just the state, ensuring freedom from fear and want and covering issues like economic safety, environmental threats, and quality of life.

  • Why is human security important?

    Human security is important as it focuses on protecting individuals and communities from various threats, contributing to their overall quality of life and ensuring sustainable peace.

  • What are some threats to human security?

    Threats to human security include poverty, food insecurity, environmental degradation, crime, terrorism, and even government oppression.

  • How is human security different from traditional security?

    Human security focuses on the safety and quality of life of individuals, whereas traditional security is state-centric, often focusing on military and political stability.

  • What are current human security challenges in the Philippines?

    Current challenges include poverty, economic disparity, the drug war, political instability, and conflicts in areas like Mindanao.

  • How does poverty impact human security in the Philippines?

    Poverty exacerbates issues such as hunger, lack of education, and poor health, making communities more vulnerable to threats like the drug trade and armed conflicts.

  • What is the government's approach to conflict in Mindanao?

    The government employs both military and non-military strategies, including peace talks, development programs, and efforts to establish political stability through agreements like the Bangsamoro Organic Law.

  • How do international relations affect the Philippines' human security?

    The Philippines' diplomatic strategies, especially with countries like China and the US, influence economic conditions, territorial disputes, and security policies.

  • What are the implications of President Duterte's foreign policy?

    President Duterte's foreign policy has shifted towards China, affecting international norms and agreements, while still trying to maintain relationships with traditional allies like the US.

  • Why does peace matter for development?

    Peace is crucial for development, as conflicts disrupt economic activities, displace communities, and create environments where insecurity thrives.

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  • 00:00:01
    [Music]
  • 00:00:16
    good day and welcome to another session
  • 00:00:18
    of the public intellectual lecture
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    series of far eastern university
  • 00:00:22
    i am leo from the department of
  • 00:00:23
    interdisciplinary studies
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    and today's topic is human security from
  • 00:00:28
    the national and international
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    perspective
  • 00:00:30
    the speakers for today's sessions are dr
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    ramel banlawi
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    chairman of the board of the philippine
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    institute for peace and
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    for peace violence and terrorism
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    research and professor hermann kraft
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    of the department of political science
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    of the university of the philippines
  • 00:00:46
    hermann romell thank you very much for
  • 00:00:48
    accommodating us for today
  • 00:00:50
    thank you for having us it's a pleasure
  • 00:00:52
    thank you so perhaps we can begin with
  • 00:00:54
    something very basic
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    um what exactly is human security so
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    perhaps you can have a working
  • 00:01:00
    definition
  • 00:01:01
    of human security from the national and
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    international or global perspective
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    and perhaps you um what if you can
  • 00:01:10
    expand on why this is important both on
  • 00:01:12
    the micro and macro level of filipino
  • 00:01:14
    society perhaps we can start with you
  • 00:01:16
    uh well um human security came up as a
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    concept actually uh that
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    the 1994 u.n um human development
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    report came up with it was a time when
  • 00:01:28
    there were a lot of
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    shall we say internal issues that were
  • 00:01:33
    actually taking place
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    uh around that time you're talking about
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    the massacres in rwanda
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    the massacres in srebrenica for instance
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    in
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    what was going on in yugoslavia um and
  • 00:01:44
    so the main
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    question there was if we continue
  • 00:01:46
    looking at things uh
  • 00:01:48
    if we continue looking at security from
  • 00:01:51
    a national security perspective meaning
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    to say that the object of security
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    continues to be the state
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    now then the question be what happens
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    when you're talking about
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    the state being the one that's
  • 00:02:00
    responsible for creating insecurity for
  • 00:02:02
    its people
  • 00:02:04
    um and so the the u.n development report
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    actually came up with the concept of
  • 00:02:08
    human security where it talks about the
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    idea that security should be seen in
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    terms of
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    freedom from fear and freedom from one
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    okay in fact i think a third
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    concept was brought in later on about
  • 00:02:18
    the freedom of future generations too
  • 00:02:21
    the kind of quality of life that we are
  • 00:02:23
    enjoying right now um
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    but the point here is that it goes
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    beyond the idea of security as
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    being simply about uh physical security
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    right the survival of the human being
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    first you're also talking about quality
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    of life here because um
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    i think what what the uh uh how
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    human security was operationalized in
  • 00:02:44
    that document it included i think seven
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    concepts and that included things like
  • 00:02:48
    economic security aside from physical
  • 00:02:50
    security environmental security
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    so all of these things were actually
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    being brought in which
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    now comes to a to an interesting point
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    because
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    it raises questions about what kinds of
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    capacities then
  • 00:03:04
    uh do governments have to have in order
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    to be able to address the question of
  • 00:03:08
    human security in other words
  • 00:03:09
    before if you talked about national
  • 00:03:12
    security it was primarily military
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    political
  • 00:03:14
    right so the focus of security was on
  • 00:03:16
    the capacity of
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    institutions like the military or the
  • 00:03:20
    police now you're talking about things
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    like foreign capacity of
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    the entire government to actually
  • 00:03:26
    provide the kind of quality of life that
  • 00:03:28
    would make people feel secure
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    in the kinds of uh everyday conditions
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    that they have to actually deal with
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    uh so in that in that context that's
  • 00:03:36
    where the norm
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    the international normation came um the
  • 00:03:39
    interesting thing about the philippines
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    is that
  • 00:03:41
    um since the
  • 00:03:44
    aquino administration the philippine
  • 00:03:47
    government has been coming out with a
  • 00:03:48
    national security policy
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    and to a large extent the basic concepts
  • 00:03:54
    that you actually have there
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    approximates it's not exactly the same
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    but it approximates the
  • 00:03:58
    international definition of what human
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    security is supposed to be all about
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    right so in that sense it rebounds to
  • 00:04:05
    the security of the human person
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    as opposed to the idea of the security
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    of the state per se
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    right thank you um yeah uh
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    that's right uh human security is a
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    product of a debate
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    challenging the traditional concept of
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    security which is
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    state-centric uh during the cold war
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    when you talk about security it is
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    defined as national security meaning
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    the security of the state against
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    external threat emanating from other
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    states
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    but after the end of the cold war
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    security the referendum of security
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    now focuses on the security of the
  • 00:04:41
    people
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    it becomes a people-centric or
  • 00:04:44
    human-centric
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    security so when you talk about threats
  • 00:04:47
    to people security or human security
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    what are these threats so threats are
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    not only
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    emanating from other states or external
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    threats but happening within the states
  • 00:04:56
    and what are these poverty
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    so when you talk about poverty you talk
  • 00:05:00
    about
  • 00:05:01
    food security or economic security then
  • 00:05:03
    you talk about destruction of the
  • 00:05:05
    environment so we have environmental
  • 00:05:06
    security
  • 00:05:07
    but at the same time the breaking down
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    of political institutions so you talk
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    about
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    political security and in the third
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    world
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    many threats are in fact happening
  • 00:05:19
    inside and even the state was a threat
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    to human security
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    so it forgot the political regime so
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    human security talks about the security
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    of human beings even against
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    their own government oppressive
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    government so that's the nature of
  • 00:05:32
    political security
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    but as a result of that security becomes
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    comprehensive and human security
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    reflects the comprehensive scope
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    of security right now so the main
  • 00:05:43
    difference is that we have the
  • 00:05:44
    traditional security
  • 00:05:46
    which is state-centric and the
  • 00:05:48
    non-traditional security
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    uh which is human-centric and this
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    non-traditional security
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    defines the overall concept of human
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    security and what are these
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    non-traditional security issues then you
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    talk about
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    threats from poverty environment
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    transnational organized crime
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    terrorism even from your own government
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    even from the police
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    can be viewed as a threat to your own
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    security so
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    human security embraces
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    a people-oriented human-centered concept
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    of security
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    as against traditional security which is
  • 00:06:19
    military-oriented
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    and state-focused thank you very much uh
  • 00:06:24
    for
  • 00:06:24
    both of you for because this is a very
  • 00:06:26
    interesting uh
  • 00:06:28
    perspective because right now what
  • 00:06:30
    they're saying is human security
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    is not about the preservation of the
  • 00:06:35
    state but
  • 00:06:36
    increasing the quality of life of the
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    people of a particular community or
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    nation if i'm not mistaken
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    so given that perhaps you can provide um
  • 00:06:46
    as a brief overview of human of the
  • 00:06:48
    conditions of human security in the
  • 00:06:50
    country again from
  • 00:06:51
    perhaps the note uh from the national
  • 00:06:53
    and international perspective
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    and perhaps present some issues which
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    you think
  • 00:06:59
    are challenging or affecting our
  • 00:07:01
    appreciation
  • 00:07:02
    of human security in the country as
  • 00:07:04
    citizens as well as our quality of life
  • 00:07:07
    perhaps you can start this time with
  • 00:07:08
    ramen when you talk about human security
  • 00:07:11
    threats to the filipinos
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    of course the number one will be the
  • 00:07:14
    issue of their their
  • 00:07:16
    economic status poverty so we're raising
  • 00:07:19
    issues of food security and economic
  • 00:07:21
    security
  • 00:07:22
    so if you want to address human security
  • 00:07:24
    concerns then our
  • 00:07:26
    benchmark for that is the human security
  • 00:07:28
    index are we fulfilling the needs of our
  • 00:07:31
    own people
  • 00:07:32
    based on human security index and what
  • 00:07:34
    are this ability to have
  • 00:07:35
    a decent livelihood decent shelter
  • 00:07:38
    is an education and even enough food on
  • 00:07:41
    their plate
  • 00:07:42
    okay so those are things that we we
  • 00:07:44
    measure and if you
  • 00:07:46
    have all these things then you have some
  • 00:07:48
    some sort of securities if you have
  • 00:07:50
    these things
  • 00:07:51
    but if you're lacking of these things if
  • 00:07:54
    you lack these things
  • 00:07:55
    then you feel insecure so that's the
  • 00:07:58
    that's the measure and the
  • 00:08:00
    the common measure next the human
  • 00:08:01
    security at the human development index
  • 00:08:04
    and now we are adopting what we call the
  • 00:08:06
    human security uh
  • 00:08:07
    index so it's being measured with a
  • 00:08:10
    comprehensive
  • 00:08:14
    issues that will address what we call
  • 00:08:17
    the needs of the human being human
  • 00:08:19
    security needs
  • 00:08:20
    so good air good environment
  • 00:08:24
    good food good shelter good education
  • 00:08:28
    those things that fulfill the needs of
  • 00:08:30
    human being
  • 00:08:31
    thank you yeah um
  • 00:08:35
    the emphasis of course on the human
  • 00:08:37
    person right human communities
  • 00:08:39
    but at the same time that does not
  • 00:08:41
    absolve the state of its
  • 00:08:42
    responsibilities
  • 00:08:43
    because you're still talking about the
  • 00:08:45
    idea of who's going to be responsible
  • 00:08:47
    for
  • 00:08:48
    providing all of this right so if you
  • 00:08:50
    talk about economic security for
  • 00:08:52
    instance which actually includes the
  • 00:08:54
    idea of
  • 00:08:55
    what ramel was actually talking about in
  • 00:08:57
    terms of addressing poverty
  • 00:08:59
    that's not something that individuals
  • 00:09:00
    can do on their own so which means the
  • 00:09:02
    state's still actually involved in that
  • 00:09:04
    particular
  • 00:09:05
    context you talk about political
  • 00:09:06
    security that includes things like human
  • 00:09:08
    rights for instance
  • 00:09:10
    um in which case uh it becomes
  • 00:09:13
    important to actually talk about
  • 00:09:16
    state capacity right uh not as the
  • 00:09:20
    object of
  • 00:09:21
    security per se but the state's capacity
  • 00:09:24
    to actually provide
  • 00:09:26
    uh the the human person with what would
  • 00:09:29
    be considered
  • 00:09:30
    the um uh the capacities to be able to
  • 00:09:34
    deal with
  • 00:09:35
    uh everyday conditions right and so in
  • 00:09:38
    that sense
  • 00:09:39
    one important aspect of human security
  • 00:09:41
    it might be implicit it's not
  • 00:09:43
    an explicit thing but it really talks
  • 00:09:45
    about or it implies the importance of
  • 00:09:47
    state capacity
  • 00:09:48
    to be able to provide all of these
  • 00:09:50
    things right to be able to respond
  • 00:09:51
    to the needs of the people uh in
  • 00:09:53
    whichever capacity you're actually
  • 00:09:54
    looking at this so
  • 00:09:56
    um it involves capacity at local
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    you know regional national levels you
  • 00:10:01
    know um and then of course
  • 00:10:03
    uh to a certain extent it also talks
  • 00:10:04
    about being part of an international
  • 00:10:06
    community
  • 00:10:07
    and being able to actually address uh
  • 00:10:10
    international norms that we
  • 00:10:11
    we adhere to for instance thank you
  • 00:10:14
    which
  • 00:10:15
    leads me to my next question because
  • 00:10:16
    you're actually emphasizing
  • 00:10:18
    economics poverty and how it influ or
  • 00:10:21
    how it has a tremendous impact on the
  • 00:10:23
    quality of life of ordinary filipinos
  • 00:10:25
    but as we can see um even if there are
  • 00:10:29
    the there seems to be a worsening
  • 00:10:31
    condition poverty seems to be worsening
  • 00:10:33
    on a yearly basis
  • 00:10:36
    despite high economic growth as
  • 00:10:38
    reflected
  • 00:10:39
    in government data it seems that
  • 00:10:43
    people seem to not be enjoying you know
  • 00:10:46
    the fruits of the economic growth
  • 00:10:48
    now that is a i think a discussion we
  • 00:10:50
    can discuss
  • 00:10:51
    on a different uh topic or a different
  • 00:10:54
    day but i was thinking
  • 00:10:55
    since most of the issues of human human
  • 00:10:58
    security
  • 00:11:00
    in most of the issues of human security
  • 00:11:02
    involve poverty
  • 00:11:04
    how does poverty impact for example
  • 00:11:07
    very important very critical issues um
  • 00:11:11
    faced by ordinary like the drug war for
  • 00:11:13
    example
  • 00:11:14
    um you have the drug war uh where in
  • 00:11:17
    most of the alleged victims or most of
  • 00:11:20
    the casualties
  • 00:11:21
    are coming from impoverished communities
  • 00:11:23
    you know and then
  • 00:11:25
    how does that contribute to you is there
  • 00:11:28
    you mentioned something about capacity
  • 00:11:30
    how does the government
  • 00:11:31
    programs or how do government programs
  • 00:11:34
    address
  • 00:11:36
    the economic conditions of those who are
  • 00:11:39
    casualties or who is being targeted by
  • 00:11:41
    the drug
  • 00:11:42
    war and in terms of capacity is it
  • 00:11:44
    working
  • 00:11:45
    perhaps uh herman can start well if you
  • 00:11:48
    think about it
  • 00:11:49
    um the question the responsibility
  • 00:11:52
    as far as economic issues are actually
  • 00:11:54
    concerned um
  • 00:11:56
    we talk of our society as fundamentally
  • 00:12:00
    adhering to a neoliberal economic agenda
  • 00:12:04
    so the idea of opening up our markets um
  • 00:12:07
    inviting foreign investments no i mean
  • 00:12:10
    of course the consequences
  • 00:12:11
    this might have in terms of uh the
  • 00:12:13
    capability of
  • 00:12:14
    uh local filipino capitalists to come to
  • 00:12:17
    to
  • 00:12:18
    compete with um with foreign capital
  • 00:12:20
    that's coming in
  • 00:12:21
    um and of course this brings in
  • 00:12:24
    questions of well how do this
  • 00:12:26
    uh affect the everyday lives of people
  • 00:12:29
    which basically means you're talking
  • 00:12:30
    about
  • 00:12:30
    quality of jobs that are actually
  • 00:12:32
    available um
  • 00:12:34
    and i think this is where the issue
  • 00:12:35
    actually comes up in other words if
  • 00:12:37
    you're talking about uh state capacity
  • 00:12:39
    you're not just talking about the
  • 00:12:40
    capacity of the state to provide
  • 00:12:42
    you know to provide uh jobs for instance
  • 00:12:45
    right that's that's not what we're
  • 00:12:46
    actually talking about but you're
  • 00:12:48
    talking about the capacity of the state
  • 00:12:49
    to actually provide the environment
  • 00:12:52
    within which filipinos will actually be
  • 00:12:56
    able to
  • 00:12:58
    engage in everyday economic activities
  • 00:13:01
    like for instance
  • 00:13:03
    one of the things that's that's
  • 00:13:05
    interesting about
  • 00:13:06
    about um the philippine economy is the
  • 00:13:10
    extent to which
  • 00:13:11
    it's been kept afloat by the remittances
  • 00:13:13
    of
  • 00:13:14
    filipino uh overseas workers for
  • 00:13:16
    instance now the question is
  • 00:13:18
    why are they going overseas right and
  • 00:13:21
    this is where the idea of
  • 00:13:23
    whether or not there are jobs that can
  • 00:13:25
    actually uh
  • 00:13:26
    provide them with the kind of quality of
  • 00:13:29
    life
  • 00:13:30
    kind of lifestyles that they feel
  • 00:13:34
    uh they they they aspire to um
  • 00:13:37
    and so in in that context uh it becomes
  • 00:13:40
    a question of
  • 00:13:41
    what is it that the state should
  • 00:13:42
    actually be providing good education for
  • 00:13:45
    instance right for them to be able to
  • 00:13:46
    compete to be
  • 00:13:47
    to be able to actually uh have a
  • 00:13:51
    the the capacity to contribute to a
  • 00:13:53
    growing economy
  • 00:13:54
    and and and that's not not just an
  • 00:13:57
    industrializing economy you know but but
  • 00:13:58
    an economy that that's going beyond
  • 00:14:01
    what we talk about as uh as an indus
  • 00:14:04
    industrializing one right we talk about
  • 00:14:07
    uh
  • 00:14:07
    the idea of a service economy um and so
  • 00:14:10
    it
  • 00:14:11
    brings up questions of what is it that
  • 00:14:12
    the government should actually be
  • 00:14:14
    focusing on
  • 00:14:15
    if we're talking about empowering our
  • 00:14:18
    people
  • 00:14:18
    right so you can talk about education
  • 00:14:21
    you can talk about
  • 00:14:22
    jobs for instance you can talk about
  • 00:14:23
    things about like like the environment
  • 00:14:26
    right providing people with the kind of
  • 00:14:28
    uh uh
  • 00:14:29
    somehow mentioned clean air for instance
  • 00:14:32
    right because that goes back to health
  • 00:14:33
    security for instance right
  • 00:14:35
    so all of these things are actually
  • 00:14:37
    interconnected so to speak
  • 00:14:38
    right uh and and a significant part of
  • 00:14:41
    that
  • 00:14:42
    goes back to the capacity of the state
  • 00:14:44
    to provide
  • 00:14:45
    the foundations within which people are
  • 00:14:48
    going to be able to
  • 00:14:49
    live uh the kind of quality of life that
  • 00:14:52
    they aspire to
  • 00:14:54
    definitely so it's obvious that the
  • 00:14:56
    direction um
  • 00:14:58
    that human security should go towards is
  • 00:15:01
    providing social services which are
  • 00:15:03
    sustainable
  • 00:15:04
    and can be enjoyed by the majority in
  • 00:15:07
    order to so that
  • 00:15:08
    poverty will not emerge or we can
  • 00:15:11
    address poverty
  • 00:15:12
    but obviously um if there's anything we
  • 00:15:15
    can see in terms of
  • 00:15:16
    even historical conditions of the
  • 00:15:17
    philippines the lack of access
  • 00:15:20
    to government to social services
  • 00:15:23
    access to opportunity it inevitably
  • 00:15:26
    leads to conflict of course we're in an
  • 00:15:27
    urban area
  • 00:15:29
    we don't necessarily see it of course in
  • 00:15:31
    terms of poverty we see
  • 00:15:32
    from the urban poor india in fact even
  • 00:15:34
    from the drug war
  • 00:15:35
    but in terms of especially the regions
  • 00:15:38
    the underdeveloped areas
  • 00:15:40
    where conflict or conflict ensues
  • 00:15:43
    and you know the struggle involves not
  • 00:15:45
    just participation or
  • 00:15:47
    social participation in rallies or even
  • 00:15:49
    in governance but actual armed conflict
  • 00:15:52
    no
  • 00:15:53
    what is the government try um what are
  • 00:15:56
    government
  • 00:15:56
    policies that try to address conflict in
  • 00:15:59
    these areas especially peace is now
  • 00:16:00
    becoming
  • 00:16:01
    a very critical issue for development
  • 00:16:04
    it's as if we're now seeing
  • 00:16:05
    development social services especially
  • 00:16:08
    in underrepresented
  • 00:16:09
    highly impoverished areas they will not
  • 00:16:12
    occur without peace
  • 00:16:13
    remember perhaps you can give us an idea
  • 00:16:15
    yeah first uh if you talk about poverty
  • 00:16:17
    you can link that with a lot of many
  • 00:16:19
    issues
  • 00:16:20
    drugs terrorism rebellion so
  • 00:16:24
    but property is not the only driver of
  • 00:16:27
    many
  • 00:16:27
    of these problems but poverty makes
  • 00:16:30
    people
  • 00:16:31
    pray to this kind of problem and that is
  • 00:16:33
    why our philippine government has
  • 00:16:35
    adopted a medium term development plan
  • 00:16:37
    that addresses the various aspects
  • 00:16:41
    of our national problem including
  • 00:16:44
    security problems
  • 00:16:45
    so when it comes to some to security
  • 00:16:47
    problems like for example muslim
  • 00:16:48
    rebellion and communist insurgency
  • 00:16:52
    we have uh approaches to
  • 00:16:55
    to deal with that so when it comes to
  • 00:16:58
    the muslim rebellion we
  • 00:17:00
    we pursued peace talks with muslim
  • 00:17:02
    rebels so we had a peace talks with the
  • 00:17:05
    modern national liberation front
  • 00:17:07
    that was signed in 1996 then we had this
  • 00:17:10
    uh
  • 00:17:12
    peace agreement with the more islamic
  • 00:17:13
    liberation front signed in 2014 until we
  • 00:17:17
    have this bank some more organic law
  • 00:17:19
    that
  • 00:17:20
    was signed into law last year and now
  • 00:17:22
    being implemented with uh
  • 00:17:24
    with the plebiscite last january now we
  • 00:17:26
    have the bangsamoro autonomous region
  • 00:17:28
    in muslim mindanao replacing the
  • 00:17:31
    autonomous
  • 00:17:32
    region in muslim india now so that's it
  • 00:17:34
    but at the same time we still have
  • 00:17:36
    problem in mindanao
  • 00:17:37
    we are still facing uh what i call
  • 00:17:41
    two sources of armed conflicts in
  • 00:17:43
    mindanao they're still continuing armed
  • 00:17:45
    rebellion
  • 00:17:47
    from the muslim front emanating from
  • 00:17:50
    pro-isis groups
  • 00:17:51
    uh like the bangsamor islamic freedom
  • 00:17:53
    fighter we have the
  • 00:17:54
    abu sayyaf group we have the answer
  • 00:17:56
    caliph philippines and other lawless
  • 00:17:58
    elements of the moro
  • 00:18:00
    islamic liberation front and even rogue
  • 00:18:02
    factions of the moro national liberation
  • 00:18:04
    front so we have that but at the same
  • 00:18:06
    time we also have this problem with
  • 00:18:08
    communist insurgency
  • 00:18:09
    the epicenter of communist insurgency
  • 00:18:12
    right now is in mindanao particularly
  • 00:18:14
    in regions 11 and 12 in agusan provinces
  • 00:18:18
    the above provinces
  • 00:18:20
    [Music]
  • 00:18:21
    so we have this problem now right now
  • 00:18:24
    the approach of the philippine
  • 00:18:25
    government
  • 00:18:26
    is to open to the possibility of peace
  • 00:18:29
    talks with the
  • 00:18:32
    communist movement but at the same time
  • 00:18:34
    they have this uh
  • 00:18:37
    prerequisites for the resumption of
  • 00:18:39
    peace talks but meanwhile
  • 00:18:41
    while that is not happening the
  • 00:18:42
    philippine government is now
  • 00:18:44
    implementing
  • 00:18:45
    what the armed forces of the philippines
  • 00:18:47
    would call focus military operations
  • 00:18:50
    so that's what the philippine government
  • 00:18:52
    is doing now but at the same time
  • 00:18:54
    while doing a military approach the
  • 00:18:56
    philippine government is also
  • 00:18:58
    implementing non-military approach like
  • 00:19:01
    for example
  • 00:19:02
    political solution to the armed conflict
  • 00:19:04
    in mindanao we have the bangsamoro
  • 00:19:06
    organic law but at the same time they
  • 00:19:08
    are implementing uh
  • 00:19:10
    economic measures to improve that so we
  • 00:19:12
    have the mintendo development authority
  • 00:19:14
    to take care of that uh
  • 00:19:17
    issue so
  • 00:19:20
    officially the philippine government is
  • 00:19:22
    implementing comprehensive approach
  • 00:19:25
    but we still need to see whether the
  • 00:19:27
    outcome of the approach will really
  • 00:19:28
    yield fruitful
  • 00:19:29
    uh fruitful benefits to the people in
  • 00:19:32
    need so that's the problem we're only
  • 00:19:34
    talking about mindanao but we also have
  • 00:19:35
    a problem
  • 00:19:36
    in the zone and in misawa yes we all
  • 00:19:38
    communist armies agencies all over the
  • 00:19:40
    philippines the zone besides in mindanao
  • 00:19:42
    and even the threat of terrorism is also
  • 00:19:44
    lost besides in mindanao now
  • 00:19:46
    yeah herman you can add to that we're
  • 00:19:48
    just wondering why is peace so important
  • 00:19:51
    because you mentioned no development
  • 00:19:53
    there can no there can be no development
  • 00:19:55
    unless there is peace no but we're
  • 00:19:57
    talking about
  • 00:19:58
    impoverished areas outside of manila
  • 00:20:01
    yeah
  • 00:20:01
    so why should the mandela
  • 00:20:04
    the urbanite the care about what is
  • 00:20:08
    happening
  • 00:20:09
    in mindanao especially and i'm going to
  • 00:20:10
    ask later about marawi because
  • 00:20:12
    you were talking about military and
  • 00:20:15
    peaceful
  • 00:20:16
    non-military solutions but if we're
  • 00:20:18
    going to use marawi
  • 00:20:20
    as a case study you know there seems to
  • 00:20:22
    be something that but anyway let's start
  • 00:20:24
    with
  • 00:20:24
    um why is peace so important even to the
  • 00:20:26
    person living
  • 00:20:27
    in a privileged position in urban in an
  • 00:20:30
    urban area
  • 00:20:31
    well the literature tells us uh that
  • 00:20:34
    development and security are practically
  • 00:20:37
    uh two phases of the same coin so to
  • 00:20:39
    speak right that
  • 00:20:41
    um in order for us to actually have
  • 00:20:42
    security now there must be a sense that
  • 00:20:45
    our lives are actually becoming better
  • 00:20:47
    both at the societal level as well as in
  • 00:20:49
    the individual level so
  • 00:20:50
    that means the expectations of people
  • 00:20:53
    about
  • 00:20:54
    their ordin their their everyday uh
  • 00:20:56
    conditions
  • 00:20:58
    is connected to security in the sense of
  • 00:21:00
    how they feel about
  • 00:21:02
    themselves right so which means that
  • 00:21:07
    the i guess you could you could actually
  • 00:21:09
    say that
  • 00:21:10
    the the motherhood statement there is
  • 00:21:11
    that development security are actually
  • 00:21:12
    interconnected right
  • 00:21:14
    um but if you want to go down to brass
  • 00:21:17
    tax for instance so you mentioned
  • 00:21:19
    the privileged position of millennials
  • 00:21:21
    right
  • 00:21:22
    why should we care about what's going on
  • 00:21:24
    in the provinces well let's put it this
  • 00:21:25
    way
  • 00:21:28
    many times food scarcity brings up the
  • 00:21:32
    the prices of food for instance where is
  • 00:21:34
    that coming from that's that's actually
  • 00:21:36
    coming from
  • 00:21:37
    supplies coming from outside of metro
  • 00:21:38
    manila right so
  • 00:21:40
    if you're talking about vegetables for
  • 00:21:42
    instance coming from the cordilleras
  • 00:21:44
    right um when things like
  • 00:21:47
    typhoons come in and then they get cut
  • 00:21:50
    off
  • 00:21:50
    right so which means that you're not
  • 00:21:52
    going to get vegetables actually go into
  • 00:21:54
    pangasinan that can be
  • 00:21:55
    transported to metro manila that means
  • 00:21:57
    the price of food actually goes up
  • 00:21:59
    right so it affects us in a very very
  • 00:22:01
    direct way if you're thinking of those
  • 00:22:03
    kinds of things
  • 00:22:05
    now if you think about conflict right
  • 00:22:08
    mindanao is one of our biggest bread
  • 00:22:10
    baskets if you're actually talking about
  • 00:22:12
    the production of food for instance
  • 00:22:14
    um the main problem of mindanao is that
  • 00:22:17
    it's always seen
  • 00:22:18
    as as being besieged by uh
  • 00:22:21
    conflict right there might be
  • 00:22:25
    uh governments that might be interested
  • 00:22:27
    in investing there
  • 00:22:28
    you know in order to actually help
  • 00:22:29
    economic development there but they're
  • 00:22:31
    always stunted by the fact that
  • 00:22:33
    well we don't we're not sure about what
  • 00:22:36
    what the security situation
  • 00:22:37
    is no um uh tourists from other
  • 00:22:40
    countries are always prevented from
  • 00:22:42
    coming going to mindanao
  • 00:22:43
    why well because of the conflict that's
  • 00:22:45
    going on there right
  • 00:22:47
    uh they always get these kinds of uh
  • 00:22:49
    these kinds of uh
  • 00:22:50
    advisories from their respective and
  • 00:22:52
    embassies right so in other words
  • 00:22:54
    if you want if you want uh conditions
  • 00:22:58
    economic conditions to actually improve
  • 00:23:00
    in these areas outside of metro manila
  • 00:23:02
    the issue of peace and security becomes
  • 00:23:05
    an important
  • 00:23:06
    factor and that no to us to to a large
  • 00:23:10
    extent
  • 00:23:10
    is eventually going to uh to rebound to
  • 00:23:13
    the
  • 00:23:13
    conditions that we have in metro manila
  • 00:23:16
    right so it's important
  • 00:23:17
    for millennials to or people in metro
  • 00:23:19
    manila to care about what's going
  • 00:23:22
    on outside right it's not just finding
  • 00:23:25
    it difficult to go
  • 00:23:26
    to go to the beautiful beaches of of
  • 00:23:28
    bongao
  • 00:23:29
    in uh in tawitawi for instance right so
  • 00:23:31
    it's those kinds of things that we need
  • 00:23:33
    to actually
  • 00:23:34
    uh understand that that our security
  • 00:23:37
    you know is connected to the security of
  • 00:23:39
    other people you know outside of metro
  • 00:23:41
    manila
  • 00:23:42
    that's a very good point so basically
  • 00:23:44
    the connection the
  • 00:23:45
    the position there is we have to care
  • 00:23:48
    because
  • 00:23:49
    we are related or we are connected to
  • 00:23:51
    them which brings it back normal to this
  • 00:23:54
    marawi because um you mentioned
  • 00:23:56
    something about military solutions to
  • 00:23:58
    addressing armed conflict especially
  • 00:24:00
    in um conflict areas like mindanao
  • 00:24:03
    now marawi for um for a lot of people is
  • 00:24:07
    a very popular issue you know because
  • 00:24:09
    of course the the fears of martial law
  • 00:24:12
    so we can see the military solution
  • 00:24:14
    to what is happening in marawi but there
  • 00:24:17
    are it's also the other side of the coin
  • 00:24:19
    which is
  • 00:24:19
    reconstruction because after the the
  • 00:24:22
    various military operations in marawi
  • 00:24:24
    the we we can see you know there is the
  • 00:24:27
    armed
  • 00:24:28
    the the armed solution of the state but
  • 00:24:30
    what about reconstruction what
  • 00:24:32
    about the lives of the people in our
  • 00:24:33
    because last time i heard i think the
  • 00:24:36
    the government position was it will
  • 00:24:38
    leave the reconstruction of marawi
  • 00:24:41
    to public to private enterprises and
  • 00:24:44
    what do you think about that and how
  • 00:24:45
    does that relate to addressing conflict
  • 00:24:47
    in
  • 00:24:48
    marawi and later on to the greater area
  • 00:24:50
    of mindanao well if you really want to
  • 00:24:53
    improve the situation in marawi you
  • 00:24:55
    really have to rebuild
  • 00:24:57
    marawi but unfortunately there are some
  • 00:25:00
    issues regarding how to start the
  • 00:25:02
    building like for example the concept of
  • 00:25:04
    normalization
  • 00:25:05
    uh the the people affected by the
  • 00:25:09
    moravian siege
  • 00:25:10
    they want the resumption of their normal
  • 00:25:12
    life unfortunately
  • 00:25:14
    the philippine government and the people
  • 00:25:16
    affected by the siege
  • 00:25:18
    they have different concept of
  • 00:25:20
    normalization
  • 00:25:22
    for the affected families particularly
  • 00:25:25
    in the main battle area now called the
  • 00:25:27
    most affected
  • 00:25:27
    areas their concept of their
  • 00:25:30
    normalization
  • 00:25:31
    is to be able to go back to their
  • 00:25:32
    original place
  • 00:25:34
    and rebuild their home but
  • 00:25:38
    the philippine government has a
  • 00:25:39
    different concept of a normalization
  • 00:25:41
    it's a new normal meaning
  • 00:25:43
    they want to rebuild a new marawi that
  • 00:25:45
    is not
  • 00:25:46
    the same with the old marawi a new
  • 00:25:48
    marawi will rise up
  • 00:25:50
    so now we have that kind of problem now
  • 00:25:52
    the philippine government presented
  • 00:25:55
    a uh a model of a numerawi
  • 00:25:58
    like uh several stories of building
  • 00:26:00
    where you can
  • 00:26:01
    put all these stresses today no we want
  • 00:26:03
    to come back to our
  • 00:26:05
    regional house and then rebuild it even
  • 00:26:07
    without the help of the government
  • 00:26:09
    even the private sector they will
  • 00:26:10
    rebuild their yes they want to go back
  • 00:26:12
    but this is now the problem
  • 00:26:14
    most of them cannot go back they don't
  • 00:26:16
    have land titles to their area they are
  • 00:26:17
    informal settlers from the perspective
  • 00:26:19
    of the state
  • 00:26:21
    and now that is fueling frustration now
  • 00:26:24
    so they are telling them you can go back
  • 00:26:27
    but not
  • 00:26:28
    the old way there will be a new normal
  • 00:26:31
    in marawi
  • 00:26:32
    and now that's now the debate now the
  • 00:26:35
    excuse of the philippine government now
  • 00:26:36
    on why there is a delay
  • 00:26:38
    in the building and reconstruction
  • 00:26:40
    activities that there are still a lot of
  • 00:26:42
    unexploded ordinance and bumps in the
  • 00:26:44
    area
  • 00:26:45
    they're still clearing it okay and they
  • 00:26:47
    are now in the final phase of the
  • 00:26:48
    clearing
  • 00:26:50
    once that is clear then they can start
  • 00:26:52
    the the what they call the vertical
  • 00:26:54
    and horizontal uh uh
  • 00:26:57
    infrastructure development but the
  • 00:27:00
    problem is that
  • 00:27:01
    uh the people is resisting the
  • 00:27:04
    the model being presented by the
  • 00:27:07
    philippine government because they
  • 00:27:08
    insist
  • 00:27:09
    to go back to their original homes and
  • 00:27:11
    even without the help of the government
  • 00:27:13
    they will rebuild their homes
  • 00:27:16
    samia we don't need we don't need
  • 00:27:18
    government help just allow us
  • 00:27:20
    to go back there and we will rebuild our
  • 00:27:22
    houses
  • 00:27:24
    but you know there is technicalities
  • 00:27:28
    technicalities about where your land
  • 00:27:30
    title technicalities about
  • 00:27:32
    how can you rebuild your home and then
  • 00:27:34
    technicalities about
  • 00:27:35
    still not safe to rebuild your home so
  • 00:27:38
    the delay
  • 00:27:39
    in the normalization pace is causing a
  • 00:27:43
    lot of frustrations now
  • 00:27:44
    and this frustration is in fact being
  • 00:27:47
    taken advantage
  • 00:27:48
    by threat groups to recruit
  • 00:27:52
    um rebels in the area now i went there
  • 00:27:55
    during the first year of marawi and the
  • 00:27:57
    second year of marawi liberation
  • 00:27:59
    and during the first year of marawi
  • 00:28:01
    liberation in the second year
  • 00:28:03
    i see deterioration of the situation and
  • 00:28:05
    i see different three refugee comes
  • 00:28:07
    there
  • 00:28:08
    and the tent city then we have a middle
  • 00:28:11
    city
  • 00:28:13
    made of of nipple heart and
  • 00:28:17
    cemented refugee comes
  • 00:28:20
    made of good houses but small but with
  • 00:28:23
    all the amenities like like the wi-fi
  • 00:28:26
    and even
  • 00:28:26
    [Music]
  • 00:28:29
    tb signals and electricity but i think
  • 00:28:32
    the most problematic
  • 00:28:34
    area there is the density but there is
  • 00:28:37
    no electricity
  • 00:28:38
    no water no supplies and i think that's
  • 00:28:41
    a field ground
  • 00:28:42
    for recruitment and this is the place
  • 00:28:44
    where you can see the highest level of
  • 00:28:45
    frustrations
  • 00:28:47
    highest labor processions now when
  • 00:28:49
    president dr said that i will
  • 00:28:52
    encourage the private sector to rebuild
  • 00:28:54
    marawi
  • 00:28:55
    it's fuel willing frustration among
  • 00:28:57
    those who
  • 00:28:59
    that have capacity
  • 00:29:02
    to access the private sector so what
  • 00:29:04
    will happen to the
  • 00:29:06
    ordinary people and now
  • 00:29:09
    armed groups are taking advantage of the
  • 00:29:12
    situation
  • 00:29:13
    to recruit from their ranks to continue
  • 00:29:15
    the rebellion and they're offering
  • 00:29:18
    a monetary
  • 00:29:21
    reward for those who will join them in
  • 00:29:23
    the
  • 00:29:25
    in the name of another ideology
  • 00:29:28
    propagated
  • 00:29:29
    by the islamic state so that's now the
  • 00:29:31
    situation in marawi so
  • 00:29:32
    the philippine government right now is
  • 00:29:34
    saying that in order to prevent this
  • 00:29:35
    thing to happen
  • 00:29:36
    then we have to implement martial law
  • 00:29:38
    and when it comes to martial
  • 00:29:40
    law it's a debate i don't know in the
  • 00:29:41
    area but um
  • 00:29:44
    the those benefiting from martial
  • 00:29:47
    implementation they like martial law
  • 00:29:48
    but those being affected by the by the
  • 00:29:52
    military operations uh they
  • 00:29:54
    they dislike martial but this is what i
  • 00:29:56
    observe about the effect of martial law
  • 00:29:59
    the implementation of martial law in
  • 00:30:01
    mindanao
  • 00:30:02
    claims the behavior of local politicians
  • 00:30:05
    and warlords
  • 00:30:06
    now local politicians are
  • 00:30:09
    exercising restraint in terms of using
  • 00:30:11
    violence in the area because the
  • 00:30:13
    military will say if you don't behave we
  • 00:30:15
    will take over remember this is
  • 00:30:16
    martial law we will take over the local
  • 00:30:19
    government
  • 00:30:20
    so those local uh
  • 00:30:23
    politicians involved in riddle right now
  • 00:30:25
    or meaning clan war
  • 00:30:26
    no longer doing they read the by our
  • 00:30:28
    violence is now in the social media
  • 00:30:31
    you know they're quarreling over social
  • 00:30:32
    media right now but the use of violence
  • 00:30:34
    is being tamed by martial
  • 00:30:36
    but martial law cannot stay there
  • 00:30:39
    forever
  • 00:30:40
    so that's the effect because
  • 00:30:42
    [Music]
  • 00:30:45
    if you want a normal situation in
  • 00:30:47
    mindanao then eventually the civilians
  • 00:30:49
    should take over
  • 00:30:50
    the governance area there so now
  • 00:30:53
    there is now contemplation on whether to
  • 00:30:55
    extend a martial again
  • 00:30:56
    because the situation in the area is
  • 00:30:58
    still
  • 00:31:00
    difficult there's still a threat from
  • 00:31:02
    from
  • 00:31:04
    pro isis elements there they're still
  • 00:31:07
    continuing anthony of foreign terrorist
  • 00:31:09
    fighters
  • 00:31:11
    the bangsamor islamic freedom fighter is
  • 00:31:13
    now
  • 00:31:14
    what we call the new mia left they're
  • 00:31:17
    continuing the arm struggle there
  • 00:31:19
    uh and the bank samara islamic freedom
  • 00:31:21
    fighter particularly the one being led
  • 00:31:23
    by
  • 00:31:23
    commander toraipe is now systematically
  • 00:31:27
    recruiting affected families by the
  • 00:31:29
    marawi seeds
  • 00:31:31
    so that's it and another
  • 00:31:35
    area to be to to be uh to be a watch
  • 00:31:38
    is the performance of the bangsamoro
  • 00:31:41
    government
  • 00:31:42
    right now there is an milf led
  • 00:31:44
    transition government
  • 00:31:46
    they have three years to prepare
  • 00:31:48
    everything in order to set up a new
  • 00:31:50
    political system that will dedicate her
  • 00:31:52
    to the aspiration of the bank samurai
  • 00:31:53
    people
  • 00:31:54
    if they don't deliver in three years
  • 00:31:56
    that will fuel another frustration
  • 00:31:58
    so that's that's the challenge now of
  • 00:32:01
    the
  • 00:32:02
    of the uh of the bangsamoro government
  • 00:32:04
    right now if
  • 00:32:05
    they fail to deliver by 2022
  • 00:32:09
    then the local politicians and the local
  • 00:32:10
    warlords can hijack the agenda
  • 00:32:13
    of the banks and motor government by
  • 00:32:15
    2022 because there will be another
  • 00:32:16
    election
  • 00:32:17
    in 2022 so who will constitute the
  • 00:32:20
    bangsamoro government
  • 00:32:22
    if the old faces will
  • 00:32:25
    form the bangsamoro government then we
  • 00:32:27
    will face more of the same scenario
  • 00:32:29
    in mindanao but if the bangsamoro
  • 00:32:32
    government will deliver and
  • 00:32:33
    can make a difference between now and
  • 00:32:35
    2022
  • 00:32:36
    i think that can spell the difference
  • 00:32:39
    but still the
  • 00:32:40
    the situation is very very uh fluid so
  • 00:32:43
    right now
  • 00:32:44
    i consider the main challenge on the
  • 00:32:46
    hand of the banks of motor government
  • 00:32:48
    they need to deliver because if they
  • 00:32:51
    fail to deliver
  • 00:32:52
    armed rebellion will not stop in that
  • 00:32:55
    question because you mentioned about you
  • 00:32:57
    talked about the disconnect
  • 00:32:59
    between governance and ordinary people
  • 00:33:02
    and this has
  • 00:33:02
    their human their level of human
  • 00:33:04
    insecurity in fact
  • 00:33:06
    made them vulnerable to armed groups
  • 00:33:09
    isn't that sort of like a vicious cycle
  • 00:33:11
    wherein due to the disconnect
  • 00:33:14
    you have people being enticed to join
  • 00:33:17
    or having the motivation to join these
  • 00:33:20
    uh to join armed resistance
  • 00:33:22
    which later on would justify the
  • 00:33:25
    continued
  • 00:33:26
    existence and implementation of martial
  • 00:33:29
    law in various areas of mindanao that's
  • 00:33:31
    the dilemma of the stately ui case the
  • 00:33:33
    government
  • 00:33:34
    acts very slow and the armed
  • 00:33:38
    groups they act very fast so by the time
  • 00:33:41
    you find a solution to assert the
  • 00:33:42
    government finds a solution to a certain
  • 00:33:44
    problem
  • 00:33:45
    the nature of threat has already evolved
  • 00:33:46
    because they act wise as faster than the
  • 00:33:48
    government
  • 00:33:49
    like for example you want to rebuild
  • 00:33:50
    malawi the government
  • 00:33:52
    is slow by nature of the bureaucracy and
  • 00:33:54
    the political process
  • 00:33:55
    and all the technicalities but at the
  • 00:33:57
    same time armed groups they recruit very
  • 00:33:59
    fast
  • 00:34:01
    they recruit very fast and now two years
  • 00:34:03
    have passed
  • 00:34:04
    and within that two years well the most
  • 00:34:07
    affected area
  • 00:34:09
    is still there no no no upward and
  • 00:34:12
    no vertical and horizontal
  • 00:34:14
    infrastructures
  • 00:34:16
    but in two years we already have you
  • 00:34:18
    know cadre
  • 00:34:20
    of another local fighters
  • 00:34:24
    that the government needs to face
  • 00:34:28
    thank you rama so i was just i just like
  • 00:34:30
    lead i'd like to lead to that
  • 00:34:32
    next discussion because martial law
  • 00:34:34
    during when
  • 00:34:35
    um when president duterte attempted or
  • 00:34:38
    pushed forward the idea of martial law
  • 00:34:40
    for not just for marawi but i think for
  • 00:34:42
    for most areas
  • 00:34:44
    it was met with resistance you know from
  • 00:34:46
    various sectors
  • 00:34:48
    various groups but eventually it was
  • 00:34:51
    passed by congress it was approved by
  • 00:34:53
    congress with an overwhelming
  • 00:34:55
    majority from both the house
  • 00:34:58
    and the senate and then it's also
  • 00:35:01
    virtually unheard of
  • 00:35:02
    for martial law in our history you know
  • 00:35:04
    with the exception of
  • 00:35:05
    uh the time of president for martial law
  • 00:35:08
    to be extended
  • 00:35:09
    again with an overwhelming majority from
  • 00:35:12
    both houses of congress now
  • 00:35:14
    i would just like to get your ideas
  • 00:35:16
    about this hermano
  • 00:35:17
    because it seems so if marawi is a mike
  • 00:35:20
    if we can use marawi as a micro host the
  • 00:35:24
    disconnect between
  • 00:35:25
    government and people it seems to be not
  • 00:35:28
    just on
  • 00:35:28
    a local level like marawi or a an island
  • 00:35:32
    level like mindanao but even from a
  • 00:35:35
    national level where you have on one
  • 00:35:37
    hand
  • 00:35:37
    people's aspirations and then democratic
  • 00:35:41
    institutions doing something else or
  • 00:35:44
    implementing a different or implementing
  • 00:35:46
    projects or policies of a different
  • 00:35:48
    direction
  • 00:35:50
    this is where the question of um
  • 00:35:53
    institutionalized governance actually
  • 00:35:55
    comes in right
  • 00:35:56
    the assumption is that um uh it doesn't
  • 00:36:00
    matter
  • 00:36:01
    which party is in power not that there
  • 00:36:03
    are really political parties here but
  • 00:36:04
    but but
  • 00:36:05
    it doesn't matter who uh uh which
  • 00:36:07
    parties in power who is the president no
  • 00:36:09
    and which administration is actually
  • 00:36:12
    in control of government that
  • 00:36:15
    there's still a continuity as far as
  • 00:36:18
    policies are actually
  • 00:36:22
    concerned right there are a number of
  • 00:36:24
    issues here uh
  • 00:36:26
    number one is that and this is connected
  • 00:36:28
    to the idea of martial law why
  • 00:36:31
    why are we turning to martial law for
  • 00:36:33
    instance why is it
  • 00:36:34
    something that that the the third
  • 00:36:36
    administration sees the
  • 00:36:38
    uh as the way out of the kind of
  • 00:36:40
    problems we actually have now
  • 00:36:42
    um it's it's a shortcut right it's
  • 00:36:45
    somehow a recognition or at least
  • 00:36:50
    a sense on the part of the
  • 00:36:52
    administration that going with normal
  • 00:36:54
    politics
  • 00:36:55
    is not going to actually address the
  • 00:36:57
    kinds of issues we actually have
  • 00:36:59
    right especially if you're talking about
  • 00:37:00
    time bound no
  • 00:37:02
    or time urgent uh kinds of issues if you
  • 00:37:04
    talk about the marawi
  • 00:37:06
    rehab for instance you know um as
  • 00:37:09
    people continue to be prevented from
  • 00:37:12
    continuing with their normal lives not
  • 00:37:14
    then the level of
  • 00:37:15
    frustration and uh the the expectations
  • 00:37:18
    that they actually have
  • 00:37:19
    now keep on growing up so the the
  • 00:37:21
    question there is
  • 00:37:23
    can normal politics deliver on this
  • 00:37:25
    right and and i think
  • 00:37:26
    the the sense of the administration that
  • 00:37:29
    no
  • 00:37:30
    right and and we can see this in in
  • 00:37:32
    terms of other issues right when we talk
  • 00:37:33
    about the idea of
  • 00:37:36
    traffic in metro manila for instance
  • 00:37:39
    right
  • 00:37:40
    it's a big issue why because some some
  • 00:37:42
    estimates made by the
  • 00:37:44
    asian development back several years
  • 00:37:46
    back now i've actually said that
  • 00:37:48
    our economic losses because of everyday
  • 00:37:50
    traffic are enormous for instance right
  • 00:37:53
    um and what is it that president duterte
  • 00:37:55
    is actually saying that
  • 00:37:57
    you have to give me emergency powers in
  • 00:37:59
    order for me to be able to deal with the
  • 00:38:00
    issue of
  • 00:38:01
    if you don't give me emergency powers
  • 00:38:03
    then i'm sorry then that's that's not
  • 00:38:05
    something that we can actually uh
  • 00:38:06
    deal with so in other words the the the
  • 00:38:09
    sense
  • 00:38:10
    is a a um
  • 00:38:13
    a diminution if you will of trust in
  • 00:38:16
    local political processes right
  • 00:38:19
    the the sense is that we have to
  • 00:38:22
    actually do shortcuts we have to do
  • 00:38:23
    emergency
  • 00:38:25
    um or to institute emergency mechanisms
  • 00:38:27
    in order to be able to
  • 00:38:29
    address all of these issues now we can't
  • 00:38:32
    operate that way right
  • 00:38:33
    in other words um this is where the
  • 00:38:35
    issue of government capacity or state
  • 00:38:37
    capacity actually comes in
  • 00:38:39
    we can't keep on saying that well in
  • 00:38:41
    order to address
  • 00:38:43
    in others we can't keep on um dealing
  • 00:38:46
    with everyday christ's everyday problems
  • 00:38:49
    you know as
  • 00:38:50
    crisis yeah right you know just be short
  • 00:38:53
    you know that's that's this is basically
  • 00:38:55
    what's what's going on right now
  • 00:38:57
    um that we're treating what ought to be
  • 00:38:59
    normal political processes or normal
  • 00:39:02
    political issues
  • 00:39:03
    you know as crisis situations which
  • 00:39:05
    require
  • 00:39:06
    no urgent
  • 00:39:09
    uh a certain urgency no and therefore
  • 00:39:13
    a demand on our part to actually move
  • 00:39:15
    from normal politics to something else
  • 00:39:18
    and i think we have to get out of that
  • 00:39:20
    uh uh mindset right
  • 00:39:21
    um although admittedly uh we've dug the
  • 00:39:25
    hole
  • 00:39:25
    you know over all of these decades of i
  • 00:39:28
    won't say that
  • 00:39:30
    i won't say that it's it's been uh uh um
  • 00:39:33
    misgovernance if you will right but but
  • 00:39:36
    it's just that
  • 00:39:37
    so many things that are really basic no
  • 00:39:40
    and that has to do with government
  • 00:39:42
    capacities to do you know agencies being
  • 00:39:44
    able to do what they're supposed to do
  • 00:39:46
    right um have been set aside
  • 00:39:50
    no and the the tendency is to actually
  • 00:39:53
    act on these things you know in terms of
  • 00:39:56
    uh
  • 00:39:56
    emergency uh conditions not treating
  • 00:39:58
    them as crisis for instance no and
  • 00:40:00
    trying to
  • 00:40:01
    um the the idea of uh of the increase in
  • 00:40:04
    our
  • 00:40:05
    inflation rate for instance no um just
  • 00:40:08
    uh
  • 00:40:09
    towards the end of 2018 for instance
  • 00:40:12
    um the question there is what needs to
  • 00:40:15
    be done
  • 00:40:15
    and of course there were a lot of issues
  • 00:40:18
    that were actually
  • 00:40:19
    being brought in um but it's not normal
  • 00:40:23
    politics that was actually being uh
  • 00:40:25
    advanced there right we need to actually
  • 00:40:27
    bring in
  • 00:40:28
    things like clarification like you know
  • 00:40:30
    and this has to be urgently
  • 00:40:31
    addressed right which raises questions
  • 00:40:34
    of why
  • 00:40:35
    why is it that every time we deal with
  • 00:40:38
    these kinds of problems
  • 00:40:39
    it's always a crisis right for our
  • 00:40:42
    centralization of power
  • 00:40:44
    exactly right um uh so we to a large
  • 00:40:47
    extent this is something that we need to
  • 00:40:49
    actually uh
  • 00:40:50
    uh address to a large extent right the
  • 00:40:53
    the the over uh
  • 00:40:56
    reliance on on on on governments more
  • 00:41:00
    particularly the overlines
  • 00:41:02
    in areas where you have uh crisis
  • 00:41:04
    conditions like uh i'm in the now
  • 00:41:06
    friends
  • 00:41:06
    the over reliance on the military being
  • 00:41:09
    able to being at the forefront of
  • 00:41:11
    what is essentially governance right so
  • 00:41:13
    in other words what we need to do is
  • 00:41:15
    strengthen government capacities
  • 00:41:17
    to do normal government activities
  • 00:41:21
    you know and address normal and to
  • 00:41:23
    undertake those activities in order to
  • 00:41:24
    address
  • 00:41:25
    normal uh issues you know so that we
  • 00:41:28
    don't get to a point where it's always
  • 00:41:30
    going to be a crisis that we need to
  • 00:41:31
    actually address
  • 00:41:33
    that's an interesting point from because
  • 00:41:34
    i was thinking you mentioned something
  • 00:41:36
    about crisis
  • 00:41:37
    urgency and yet not every issue
  • 00:41:41
    is a crisis no it requires rather than
  • 00:41:44
    an immediate action it requires
  • 00:41:46
    government to work or function properly
  • 00:41:49
    but
  • 00:41:50
    what i was thinking was for people
  • 00:41:53
    of a certain position or certain
  • 00:41:55
    privileges
  • 00:41:56
    they can wait no but i was thinking
  • 00:41:59
    because that might be
  • 00:42:01
    the root no of the popularity you know
  • 00:42:04
    because
  • 00:42:04
    even with all these issues not the
  • 00:42:06
    popularity rate of the of the government
  • 00:42:08
    in particular and it seems to be still
  • 00:42:10
    very high but what i was thinking was
  • 00:42:14
    the most people especially those in
  • 00:42:16
    impoverished areas or those who are not
  • 00:42:17
    in
  • 00:42:18
    privileged positions they're in the hole
  • 00:42:20
    that you were mentioning they're at the
  • 00:42:22
    bottom of the hole
  • 00:42:23
    and they feel that government and actual
  • 00:42:26
    uh
  • 00:42:27
    proper government function will not lead
  • 00:42:30
    to
  • 00:42:30
    immediate relief so that's why they feel
  • 00:42:32
    president duterte or there is a need for
  • 00:42:34
    authoritarian rule centralization of
  • 00:42:36
    power
  • 00:42:37
    for them what do you think would be the
  • 00:42:40
    trade-offs for such a scenario
  • 00:42:42
    wherein for example marawi
  • 00:42:46
    due to um the influence on congress he
  • 00:42:50
    can ease
  • 00:42:50
    and now especially in the recent
  • 00:42:52
    elections now where now a super majority
  • 00:42:55
    is uh it's in the the supermajority
  • 00:42:59
    in the legislative is actually now
  • 00:43:02
    connected to
  • 00:43:03
    or engaging there's a very close
  • 00:43:05
    connection between the administration
  • 00:43:07
    and then you have the judiciary now
  • 00:43:10
    being i think how many appointees i
  • 00:43:13
    think
  • 00:43:13
    uh does the president that they have for
  • 00:43:15
    this particular batch of
  • 00:43:17
    uh justices but i think it will comply
  • 00:43:20
    it will comprise a significant majority
  • 00:43:22
    you know
  • 00:43:23
    and then of course you have issues or
  • 00:43:25
    allegations not that
  • 00:43:27
    the the executive is interfering
  • 00:43:30
    with the judiciary because they feel the
  • 00:43:32
    judiciary is a
  • 00:43:34
    bar is a barrier to necessary emergency
  • 00:43:37
    actions
  • 00:43:38
    what would be the trade-off in the event
  • 00:43:40
    that
  • 00:43:41
    centralization of power or authoritarian
  • 00:43:43
    rule does happen
  • 00:43:44
    so let's start with your man well what
  • 00:43:47
    we have right now is a populist
  • 00:43:48
    government
  • 00:43:49
    with a very limited time to deliver
  • 00:43:52
    his campaign promises so the government
  • 00:43:55
    now resorts to a lot
  • 00:43:57
    of shortcuts in order to continue the
  • 00:43:59
    popularity so
  • 00:44:01
    that's now the situation that we have so
  • 00:44:03
    my
  • 00:44:05
    sense is that this government is more
  • 00:44:07
    interested
  • 00:44:08
    on short-term gain without
  • 00:44:12
    looking into the long-term consequences
  • 00:44:15
    anyway he will only stay until 2022 so
  • 00:44:18
    assuming he stays until 2022. so that's
  • 00:44:21
    his mind frame
  • 00:44:22
    to to to to remain popular
  • 00:44:26
    and use this popularity to justify what
  • 00:44:28
    he's currently doing
  • 00:44:30
    so that's now the style of the the
  • 00:44:32
    government right now
  • 00:44:34
    and if you will look at his tendency his
  • 00:44:36
    tendency is really very liberal
  • 00:44:39
    not not the liberal meaning uh using the
  • 00:44:42
    trappings of the very interesting term
  • 00:44:44
    not non-liberal but illegal he's an
  • 00:44:47
    illiberal
  • 00:44:48
    uh leader using the
  • 00:44:51
    trappings of democracy to justify his
  • 00:44:55
    leadership but at the same time
  • 00:44:57
    undermining the same democracy
  • 00:44:59
    through his authoritarian
  • 00:45:02
    approach anyway this is uh this
  • 00:45:05
    this is the style of the the 30
  • 00:45:07
    government but the good thing
  • 00:45:09
    we still have the democratic
  • 00:45:11
    institutions
  • 00:45:12
    and we can still use these democratic
  • 00:45:15
    institutions to check
  • 00:45:17
    the current government and account for
  • 00:45:20
    the abuse in power but at the same time
  • 00:45:24
    duterte is taking advantage of his
  • 00:45:28
    popularity
  • 00:45:30
    to lure other government officials to
  • 00:45:33
    rally behind him
  • 00:45:34
    so now he has the support of the
  • 00:45:35
    judiciary the congress
  • 00:45:38
    the the local governments now
  • 00:45:42
    that encourages him more to do a lot of
  • 00:45:45
    extra
  • 00:45:48
    extra extra measures to address
  • 00:45:52
    many problems that we face as a nation
  • 00:45:56
    that's why he always makes an issue a
  • 00:45:59
    crisis
  • 00:46:00
    in order to justify his
  • 00:46:04
    action so in fact
  • 00:46:07
    my term for that is that he wants to
  • 00:46:09
    securitize everything
  • 00:46:10
    to justify security measure is
  • 00:46:14
    securitizing everything
  • 00:46:16
    even the problem of traffic is uh
  • 00:46:18
    security
  • 00:46:19
    so mmda a former military the
  • 00:46:22
    lga now there is a pending uh pending
  • 00:46:25
    bill in congress about uh
  • 00:46:28
    law for homeland security in order to
  • 00:46:30
    empower
  • 00:46:32
    the the local government on security
  • 00:46:35
    security matters
  • 00:46:36
    then we now have the the amendment of
  • 00:46:38
    the human security account 2007
  • 00:46:41
    which will become the new anti-terrorism
  • 00:46:43
    law by by
  • 00:46:44
    by this year now we have the rotc uh
  • 00:46:47
    rotc now there's now a bill in congress
  • 00:46:49
    on the
  • 00:46:51
    national defense act a new national
  • 00:46:53
    defense act
  • 00:46:54
    so a lot of measures that
  • 00:46:58
    this government wants to
  • 00:47:01
    have in order to justify more power of
  • 00:47:04
    the state
  • 00:47:05
    more power of the state so
  • 00:47:09
    that's now the the the situation and the
  • 00:47:12
    police is happy
  • 00:47:13
    the military is happy because it's
  • 00:47:15
    empowering them
  • 00:47:16
    empowering them but the good thing is
  • 00:47:18
    that we still have the 1987 constitution
  • 00:47:21
    now they want to change the 1987
  • 00:47:23
    constitution
  • 00:47:24
    in order to adopt a new political system
  • 00:47:27
    that is will be federal informed
  • 00:47:29
    but i don't think uh that will prosper
  • 00:47:32
    by 2022
  • 00:47:33
    but what the philippine government is
  • 00:47:36
    doing now
  • 00:47:37
    is by these issues now duterte now have
  • 00:47:42
    in enough room for political maneuver
  • 00:47:45
    with all these uh
  • 00:47:48
    people behind him and the result of the
  • 00:47:51
    election this
  • 00:47:52
    year is like a zeal of approval
  • 00:47:55
    of what it's doing so enough the people
  • 00:47:58
    seems to like it the popularity is still
  • 00:48:01
    high but the middle class like us the
  • 00:48:02
    intellectual
  • 00:48:04
    like us find it very problematic
  • 00:48:08
    thank you anything to add uh herman um
  • 00:48:11
    yes i i agree with what romell is
  • 00:48:12
    actually saying
  • 00:48:13
    and and and to a large extent one of the
  • 00:48:15
    things that needs to be uh
  • 00:48:17
    take into consideration here um are
  • 00:48:20
    is that that balance between uh
  • 00:48:24
    short-term uh
  • 00:48:27
    problem-solving and the long-term
  • 00:48:29
    consequences that this might have
  • 00:48:32
    you know for things like institutions
  • 00:48:34
    for instance right
  • 00:48:35
    um and and i think this is
  • 00:48:39
    part of the the uh uh shall we say
  • 00:48:43
    um the attempts on our part to really
  • 00:48:48
    reflect
  • 00:48:48
    on you know what is it that we're
  • 00:48:50
    actually uh
  • 00:48:51
    facing right now uh because the question
  • 00:48:54
    here is
  • 00:48:55
    um are we in agreement with the idea
  • 00:48:57
    that
  • 00:48:58
    um a president with authoritarian
  • 00:49:02
    tendencies who is actually what we need
  • 00:49:05
    right and and i think um many of the
  • 00:49:08
    surveys that actually show that he's
  • 00:49:10
    popular
  • 00:49:11
    you know uh actually might not agree
  • 00:49:14
    with that particular point but they like
  • 00:49:16
    what president duterte or at least the
  • 00:49:18
    kind of projection that president
  • 00:49:20
    duterte is actually making
  • 00:49:21
    you know um in this case it's really a
  • 00:49:23
    question of
  • 00:49:24
    well what exactly is it that he has
  • 00:49:26
    actually been able to achieve
  • 00:49:28
    people see that there are achievements
  • 00:49:30
    that there are
  • 00:49:31
    that the administration is doing
  • 00:49:33
    something right that that might be
  • 00:49:35
    debatable but at least as far as
  • 00:49:37
    uh as far as uh the large majority
  • 00:49:40
    uh that the surveys actually show
  • 00:49:44
    of approval for what he's actually doing
  • 00:49:47
    seems to indicate that
  • 00:49:49
    that people seem to actually believe in
  • 00:49:52
    his leadership and i think
  • 00:49:55
    the problem there of course is that yeah
  • 00:49:57
    we're looking at the short-term
  • 00:49:58
    consequences
  • 00:49:59
    right uh um he has done a number of
  • 00:50:03
    things that we actually
  • 00:50:04
    that the people actually like for
  • 00:50:06
    instance but the question there of
  • 00:50:07
    course is
  • 00:50:08
    well um over the long term if it's no
  • 00:50:10
    longer a duterte is actually sitting as
  • 00:50:12
    president
  • 00:50:13
    no what are the consequences then right
  • 00:50:17
    because that means that we must
  • 00:50:18
    constantly have somebody
  • 00:50:20
    with that kind of authoritarian tendency
  • 00:50:23
    to make things
  • 00:50:23
    actually work now if we're going to
  • 00:50:26
    ignore the consequences as far as
  • 00:50:28
    strengthening of institutions now that
  • 00:50:29
    that kind of leadership is actually
  • 00:50:30
    going to
  • 00:50:31
    uh going to lead to definitely because i
  • 00:50:35
    was thinking as well though because the
  • 00:50:36
    centralization of power you know
  • 00:50:38
    the concentration of power on the
  • 00:50:40
    executive especially specifically the
  • 00:50:42
    president
  • 00:50:43
    it has local ramifications definitely
  • 00:50:45
    you know
  • 00:50:46
    but what about the in what about
  • 00:50:48
    international relations because i
  • 00:50:50
    remember i think it was
  • 00:50:51
    under the duterte term when we
  • 00:50:53
    arbitrarily pulled up
  • 00:50:54
    from the international criminal court
  • 00:50:58
    which is an international agreement but
  • 00:51:00
    all of a sudden
  • 00:51:01
    that since the executive said we do not
  • 00:51:03
    want this
  • 00:51:05
    they were able to pull it out so the
  • 00:51:07
    institutions were actually supposed to
  • 00:51:08
    be in place
  • 00:51:09
    for that issue not it doesn't mean that
  • 00:51:11
    no no it was a correct or incorrect
  • 00:51:13
    action
  • 00:51:13
    but rather there were institutions that
  • 00:51:16
    should have at the very least
  • 00:51:18
    engage that discussion so
  • 00:51:21
    given the super majority the
  • 00:51:22
    concentration of power no
  • 00:51:24
    on the executive know how does that
  • 00:51:26
    impact foreign relations
  • 00:51:28
    especially you know since there is an
  • 00:51:30
    issue with china
  • 00:51:32
    and national sovereignty just recently i
  • 00:51:34
    think it was june 9 right
  • 00:51:36
    when a filipino fishing vessel was sunk
  • 00:51:38
    and then
  • 00:51:39
    abandoned by the annan what do you think
  • 00:51:41
    about this
  • 00:51:42
    notion of concentration of power and
  • 00:51:44
    then international relations with china
  • 00:51:46
    let's start with you well
  • 00:51:48
    democratic states particularly from
  • 00:51:50
    northern america
  • 00:51:51
    and western europe they have a problem
  • 00:51:53
    with duterte but
  • 00:51:55
    the rest of the world they don't have
  • 00:51:57
    any problem like russia
  • 00:51:58
    does not have every problem china does
  • 00:52:00
    not have any problem turkey
  • 00:52:02
    does not have any problem the other
  • 00:52:03
    world they don't have any problem
  • 00:52:05
    but what seems to be the common
  • 00:52:06
    denominator with the states well that's
  • 00:52:08
    the
  • 00:52:08
    that's the the common denominator is
  • 00:52:11
    that duterte knows that it's dealing
  • 00:52:13
    with other states with similar
  • 00:52:14
    characteristics
  • 00:52:16
    that these are strong men you know they
  • 00:52:19
    find democracy too limiting for
  • 00:52:20
    governance so
  • 00:52:22
    uh so that's that's why in in academia
  • 00:52:24
    we have now uh
  • 00:52:25
    uh we are now debating on democracy
  • 00:52:27
    never what
  • 00:52:28
    from the third wave of democracy after
  • 00:52:30
    the end of the cold war now we have
  • 00:52:32
    a regression you know democratic
  • 00:52:34
    regression
  • 00:52:36
    so that's the kind of context where you
  • 00:52:38
    can see uh duterte's leadership now
  • 00:52:41
    so duterte is very popular in
  • 00:52:44
    selected countries in southeast asia
  • 00:52:46
    very popular in laos cambodia
  • 00:52:48
    myanmar even in singapore in malaysia
  • 00:52:51
    and even indonesia
  • 00:52:52
    popular and what are the states you know
  • 00:52:55
    you know
  • 00:52:56
    and if you will also see we are so close
  • 00:52:59
    with north korea
  • 00:53:01
    we're so close with north korea okay but
  • 00:53:03
    at the same time
  • 00:53:04
    the philippines is also very close with
  • 00:53:06
    japan and we could
  • 00:53:08
    the philippine continues to be an ally
  • 00:53:10
    of the united states we continue to have
  • 00:53:12
    very good relationship with australia
  • 00:53:14
    although they have problems on the way
  • 00:53:17
    duterte is doing on the area of
  • 00:53:22
    democracy and human rights but they
  • 00:53:25
    still
  • 00:53:25
    have very good relationship with duterte
  • 00:53:28
    and what the third is doing now is
  • 00:53:30
    i think it's clever clever diplomacy
  • 00:53:33
    of of dealing with the major powers and
  • 00:53:36
    dealing with the smaller states
  • 00:53:39
    this government knows how to deal with
  • 00:53:41
    the needs of
  • 00:53:42
    all these foreign countries
  • 00:53:46
    like for example we continue to have
  • 00:53:48
    very strong relationship with the united
  • 00:53:50
    states despite
  • 00:53:51
    our so-called paradigm shift to
  • 00:53:54
    china in fact in my conversation with
  • 00:53:58
    american
  • 00:53:59
    and chinese experts there is now an
  • 00:54:01
    issue
  • 00:54:02
    if you go to china china is happy about
  • 00:54:04
    friendly gesture of the 30 but at the
  • 00:54:06
    same time
  • 00:54:07
    china is questioning the sincerity of
  • 00:54:10
    duterte
  • 00:54:10
    because the third is still having this
  • 00:54:12
    good relationship with with the united
  • 00:54:14
    states but if you
  • 00:54:15
    talk to the united states experts
  • 00:54:19
    they're questioning the loyalty of
  • 00:54:22
    philippine government to the alliance
  • 00:54:24
    system
  • 00:54:25
    but now the third is so pragmatic
  • 00:54:28
    to really play the major power game and
  • 00:54:31
    at the same time
  • 00:54:32
    play with the smaller states in in asean
  • 00:54:37
    he knows how to deal with asean but
  • 00:54:41
    what's the outcome of all these things
  • 00:54:43
    what the outcome of all these things
  • 00:54:44
    i think we're getting things
  • 00:54:48
    from us because of that we continue to
  • 00:54:50
    receive foreign military assistance from
  • 00:54:52
    the united states this year alone we're
  • 00:54:54
    having a lot
  • 00:54:55
    like more than 200 different joint
  • 00:54:58
    military exercises with our american
  • 00:55:00
    counterparts with the participation of
  • 00:55:02
    other states like
  • 00:55:03
    japan and australia now we are receiving
  • 00:55:05
    a lot of deals with
  • 00:55:07
    with china although big big ticket
  • 00:55:11
    deals are still not uh
  • 00:55:14
    being delivered but still getting and
  • 00:55:16
    we're getting a lot more from japan in
  • 00:55:18
    fact
  • 00:55:19
    among all the major powers we're getting
  • 00:55:21
    concrete
  • 00:55:22
    things from japan so if you will notice
  • 00:55:25
    now from the
  • 00:55:26
    recent statements of president duterte i
  • 00:55:28
    think prime minister abe has influenced
  • 00:55:30
    the
  • 00:55:30
    mind that the thinking the current
  • 00:55:32
    thinking now of the 30 when it comes to
  • 00:55:34
    the issue of the south china sea
  • 00:55:35
    and when it comes to our relationship
  • 00:55:36
    with with china i think his visit to
  • 00:55:38
    japan
  • 00:55:40
    really created very
  • 00:55:43
    big impact on the current thinking now
  • 00:55:45
    of
  • 00:55:46
    the 30 and now we just finished the
  • 00:55:48
    still ongoing meeting in honolulu
  • 00:55:50
    hawaii on the mutual defense board and
  • 00:55:52
    that is influencing the meeting and now
  • 00:55:55
    president duterte and president xi
  • 00:55:57
    jinping met in
  • 00:55:58
    beijing last april during the second bri
  • 00:56:02
    uh forum meeting the belt and road
  • 00:56:04
    initiative meeting
  • 00:56:05
    so all these things are now making
  • 00:56:08
    many many states being puzzled
  • 00:56:11
    so what's your endgame what's your
  • 00:56:14
    bottom line and i think the bottom
  • 00:56:16
    line is of the duterte i want to get the
  • 00:56:19
    best
  • 00:56:20
    of all these words okay
  • 00:56:23
    and and i think that's making the
  • 00:56:25
    duterte government very very resilient
  • 00:56:28
    in the area of foreign policy in the
  • 00:56:30
    area of international diplomacy
  • 00:56:32
    hermann just like racist question
  • 00:56:34
    because you were
  • 00:56:36
    roman was saying obviously there's an
  • 00:56:38
    international game
  • 00:56:39
    and duterte is playing along or is
  • 00:56:41
    playing based on these issues
  • 00:56:43
    but if there's anything that we can see
  • 00:56:45
    as well now there are trade-offs
  • 00:56:47
    not to this particular this game no to
  • 00:56:49
    the gains that he gets
  • 00:56:51
    specifically china because there are now
  • 00:56:53
    issues
  • 00:56:54
    of in return for these investments
  • 00:56:57
    it would mean surrendering or that's the
  • 00:57:00
    popular impression
  • 00:57:01
    that sovereignty national territory and
  • 00:57:04
    areas are being surrendered no
  • 00:57:05
    so just like to get your opinion on this
  • 00:57:07
    government and also this
  • 00:57:09
    notion of that when we were talking
  • 00:57:11
    about foreign policy if you notice
  • 00:57:12
    romano
  • 00:57:13
    we were saying this is what the third is
  • 00:57:14
    two in the thirties i think
  • 00:57:16
    in a democratic society foreign policy
  • 00:57:20
    should be decided upon by people
  • 00:57:23
    through institutions then represented by
  • 00:57:27
    the president in this ah no no well i
  • 00:57:30
    think it might be
  • 00:57:31
    different it's as if you're saying the
  • 00:57:34
    territox or the the president talks to
  • 00:57:36
    these
  • 00:57:37
    particular heads of state and then he
  • 00:57:39
    brings back whatever
  • 00:57:40
    policies he obtains or he negotiates
  • 00:57:43
    there he brings it back
  • 00:57:44
    to us and then is implemented i think
  • 00:57:47
    there's
  • 00:57:48
    i think there's a is there something
  • 00:57:50
    problematic or something we're giving
  • 00:57:52
    away with regards to that dynamic
  • 00:57:54
    no this one person
  • 00:57:57
    this very relatively backward flow of
  • 00:57:59
    diplomatic policy
  • 00:58:01
    well if you look at our constitution the
  • 00:58:03
    president
  • 00:58:04
    is also our principal diplomatic right
  • 00:58:07
    in other words
  • 00:58:08
    uh that is a constitutional provision
  • 00:58:10
    right
  • 00:58:11
    so you can't you can't really you can't
  • 00:58:13
    really
  • 00:58:14
    um uh understate so to speak the
  • 00:58:17
    responsibility of the
  • 00:58:19
    of the president as a person as a
  • 00:58:22
    personality
  • 00:58:24
    as far as foreign policy uh is actually
  • 00:58:27
    concerned
  • 00:58:29
    i think what is interesting about about
  • 00:58:31
    the third administration
  • 00:58:33
    is the extent to which he has
  • 00:58:35
    personalized
  • 00:58:37
    no especially the relationship with
  • 00:58:39
    china
  • 00:58:40
    right um so he's not just talking about
  • 00:58:43
    philippine-china relations right he's
  • 00:58:46
    talking about
  • 00:58:47
    him and in china i need china right he
  • 00:58:50
    actually mentioned that
  • 00:58:51
    a few years back um so it's it's in a
  • 00:58:55
    sense you know
  • 00:58:55
    um uh uh it goes beyond the idea of his
  • 00:59:00
    responsibilities as the chief diplomat
  • 00:59:02
    of the philippines
  • 00:59:03
    the whole thing is now some about him
  • 00:59:06
    you know as as uh as the principal
  • 00:59:09
    initiator of uh
  • 00:59:11
    foreign policy for the philippines um
  • 00:59:13
    but at the same time
  • 00:59:15
    you know and i think this is where this
  • 00:59:17
    is where uh these are these are some of
  • 00:59:19
    the things that we might actually miss
  • 00:59:20
    out when we talk about
  • 00:59:21
    china for instance right um
  • 00:59:25
    there's nothing really if you look at
  • 00:59:28
    our relationship with china
  • 00:59:30
    uh the relationship has
  • 00:59:33
    always been you know actually good so to
  • 00:59:37
    speak
  • 00:59:38
    okay um and this is something that china
  • 00:59:40
    finds
  • 00:59:41
    odd so to speak uh why is it that
  • 00:59:44
    filipinos find
  • 00:59:45
    china uh or has a lot of suspicion
  • 00:59:48
    with for for chinese uh intentions for
  • 00:59:51
    instance but
  • 00:59:52
    if you go back to uh uh i mean
  • 00:59:55
    historically speaking if you go back to
  • 00:59:57
    our history with china
  • 00:59:58
    no okay like not too far let's say at
  • 01:00:01
    the time when we
  • 01:00:02
    established first established uh uh
  • 01:00:05
    diplomatic relations with communist
  • 01:00:07
    china this is during the time of marcos
  • 01:00:09
    right yes exactly right um our
  • 01:00:12
    relationship with china
  • 01:00:13
    has never been intense so to speak but
  • 01:00:16
    it has never been
  • 01:00:18
    negative right so in other words
  • 01:00:21
    um in fact there were um
  • 01:00:24
    you might actually say that that move of
  • 01:00:27
    marcos uh in the first place was
  • 01:00:30
    was directed at the uh idea of
  • 01:00:32
    conscience communist insurgency in the
  • 01:00:34
    philippines the idea of trying to cut
  • 01:00:35
    off
  • 01:00:36
    you know uh material material support
  • 01:00:39
    that the
  • 01:00:40
    the people's republic of china might
  • 01:00:43
    actually
  • 01:00:44
    um uh provide the new people's army for
  • 01:00:47
    instance
  • 01:00:48
    be that as it may you know uh there
  • 01:00:51
    hasn't really been
  • 01:00:52
    any major uh issue as far as our
  • 01:00:55
    relationship
  • 01:00:56
    with chinese ash concert now of course
  • 01:00:57
    this is before china became
  • 01:00:59
    a regional hegemon right a powerful
  • 01:01:01
    state the peaceful rise of china and all
  • 01:01:03
    of that
  • 01:01:03
    and this is before china began to be
  • 01:01:06
    uh began to probe into
  • 01:01:10
    its ability to actually uh
  • 01:01:13
    make its presence felt you know uh in in
  • 01:01:16
    well beyond the south china sea the west
  • 01:01:19
    philippine sea
  • 01:01:19
    right so there are those kinds of things
  • 01:01:22
    that we actually have to understand
  • 01:01:24
    right in other words what i'm actually
  • 01:01:26
    trying to say is that the relationship
  • 01:01:28
    with china that we had under the um
  • 01:01:31
    administration is actually a deviation
  • 01:01:33
    from the normal
  • 01:01:35
    kind of relationship that we had
  • 01:01:39
    you could actually make the argument
  • 01:01:40
    that duterte is just bringing us back
  • 01:01:42
    into what was actually the normal
  • 01:01:45
    relationship that we had with china
  • 01:01:47
    of course the problem there is that
  • 01:01:51
    this goes against popular
  • 01:01:54
    uh perceptions you know of that
  • 01:01:56
    relationship that we have with china
  • 01:01:59
    okay um the kinds of of perceptions that
  • 01:02:02
    were shaped by
  • 01:02:03
    chinese activities not in the south
  • 01:02:05
    china sea and the west philippines
  • 01:02:07
    for instance okay and so when you talk
  • 01:02:09
    about the idea that we're just trying to
  • 01:02:11
    bring the relationship back to a normal
  • 01:02:14
    kind of
  • 01:02:15
    uh condition right
  • 01:02:18
    it's very difficult and the the language
  • 01:02:20
    that we we see
  • 01:02:21
    is of course things like the pivot to
  • 01:02:23
    china for instance right
  • 01:02:27
    uh and so it's it's it's
  • 01:02:30
    not easy to actually make that kind of
  • 01:02:33
    argument
  • 01:02:34
    that people will understand that
  • 01:02:36
    particular
  • 01:02:37
    uh administrative um
  • 01:02:40
    or this administration's attempts to
  • 01:02:43
    actually normalize the relationship with
  • 01:02:44
    china
  • 01:02:45
    and what doesn't help is that um
  • 01:02:49
    you can just oppose that no with his
  • 01:02:52
    rhetoric
  • 01:02:53
    not what the government actually does
  • 01:02:54
    but he's rhetoric
  • 01:02:56
    as far as the eu is concerned the united
  • 01:02:59
    states in other words
  • 01:03:00
    as far as our traditional friends are
  • 01:03:02
    actually concerned he's very hostile in
  • 01:03:04
    the rhetoric that he actually uses
  • 01:03:06
    right and so you get the sense that ah
  • 01:03:10
    he's changing
  • 01:03:11
    you know the direction of our foreign
  • 01:03:13
    policy okay
  • 01:03:15
    although if you look at it objectively
  • 01:03:17
    now to a large extent
  • 01:03:19
    uh we're just going back to what we
  • 01:03:21
    might say would be a normal
  • 01:03:23
    relationship with china now of course
  • 01:03:25
    the other thing that you have to
  • 01:03:27
    to be very careful about is that china
  • 01:03:29
    is no longer the china that it was
  • 01:03:31
    before
  • 01:03:32
    right so if we're talking about
  • 01:03:34
    normalizing relationships
  • 01:03:36
    right china under mao zedong no
  • 01:03:39
    um later on is very different from the
  • 01:03:44
    kind of china that we're actually facing
  • 01:03:45
    now under xi jinping
  • 01:03:47
    right so in that kind of context no um
  • 01:03:50
    it's also very difficult to say oh we're
  • 01:03:51
    just normalizing things
  • 01:03:53
    right precisely because it's a different
  • 01:03:55
    china that we're actually dealing with
  • 01:03:56
    now
  • 01:03:57
    right and and and dealing with that
  • 01:03:59
    china
  • 01:04:01
    might require us to think about well
  • 01:04:03
    okay uh
  • 01:04:04
    can we do it on our own right in the way
  • 01:04:08
    that
  • 01:04:09
    the way that you're actually talking
  • 01:04:10
    about it earlier on
  • 01:04:12
    that duterte actually is uh
  • 01:04:16
    is using this as in a strategic gambit
  • 01:04:19
    right trying to normalize relations with
  • 01:04:22
    china but at the same time
  • 01:04:23
    making sure that even as he says those
  • 01:04:26
    things about the united states not
  • 01:04:27
    that things are actually normal there
  • 01:04:29
    okay so
  • 01:04:31
    in other words if you are actually
  • 01:04:34
    personalizing the way that we approach
  • 01:04:36
    this geopolitical situation this new
  • 01:04:38
    geopolitical situation
  • 01:04:40
    right now the question there is um
  • 01:04:43
    uh does it actually mean
  • 01:04:47
    that we we change the nature
  • 01:04:50
    of our relationship especially within
  • 01:04:53
    within the context of the
  • 01:04:54
    emerging international order that we
  • 01:04:56
    have right now right
  • 01:04:58
    uh so things like multilateral
  • 01:05:00
    institutions and the way that we tend to
  • 01:05:02
    ignore that
  • 01:05:03
    withdrawing from the icc for instance
  • 01:05:05
    right and the way that
  • 01:05:06
    that that president duterte has
  • 01:05:08
    threatened for instance in the past that
  • 01:05:09
    may as well withdraw from the u.n
  • 01:05:11
    because it hasn't been able to do
  • 01:05:12
    anything
  • 01:05:13
    anyway right so in other words this is
  • 01:05:16
    the international system that we've had
  • 01:05:18
    in the past
  • 01:05:19
    post-cold war situation right a system
  • 01:05:22
    that has
  • 01:05:24
    seen to the emergence of multilateral
  • 01:05:26
    institutions the creation of
  • 01:05:27
    international norms
  • 01:05:28
    no and so on and here is a president in
  • 01:05:32
    the philippines actually saying that
  • 01:05:34
    i'm not too happy about the way those
  • 01:05:36
    norms are actually
  • 01:05:37
    uh uh operating so to speak right uh and
  • 01:05:41
    so when
  • 01:05:41
    when you start seeing that you know and
  • 01:05:43
    the way that we're we're trying to
  • 01:05:45
    um to reorient so to speak
  • 01:05:49
    the kind of foreign policy that we have
  • 01:05:51
    under the third administration
  • 01:05:52
    no um then the question that we have is
  • 01:05:55
    is there
  • 01:05:56
    some sort of coherence in the way that
  • 01:05:57
    this uh all of these things are actually
  • 01:05:58
    being brought about
  • 01:06:00
    thank you which which which then leads
  • 01:06:02
    me to my next question rahman because
  • 01:06:04
    heroin is talking about a gambit you
  • 01:06:07
    were talking about
  • 01:06:08
    how duterte is playing a game or playing
  • 01:06:10
    an international game of diplomatic game
  • 01:06:13
    with these heads of state with these
  • 01:06:15
    governments no
  • 01:06:17
    assume he stays or assuming he just
  • 01:06:19
    stays for the next three years
  • 01:06:21
    no what would be the what would be the
  • 01:06:24
    long term
  • 01:06:25
    impact of this game of this highly
  • 01:06:28
    personalized
  • 01:06:29
    this oh my
  • 01:06:34
    this diplomatic game no this diplomatic
  • 01:06:37
    economic game no
  • 01:06:38
    with these heads of state with these
  • 01:06:40
    governments no what would happen
  • 01:06:43
    once duterte leaves power and the new
  • 01:06:45
    head of state
  • 01:06:46
    would now be faced with the consequences
  • 01:06:49
    with the realities created by this
  • 01:06:52
    highly personalized
  • 01:06:54
    highly diplo um i guess the popular
  • 01:06:57
    i think it's an extension of what he's
  • 01:06:59
    doing in a populist
  • 01:07:01
    relationship with these states what do
  • 01:07:03
    you think about that well
  • 01:07:04
    there are uncertain uncertainties after
  • 01:07:06
    duterte
  • 01:07:07
    but we need to ask whether what what are
  • 01:07:09
    the gains of the authority
  • 01:07:11
    administration and what have we
  • 01:07:12
    exchanged
  • 01:07:14
    in terms of our foreign policies so look
  • 01:07:15
    at china
  • 01:07:17
    wata began we gained access to
  • 01:07:20
    scarborough
  • 01:07:21
    okay now we can freely move our
  • 01:07:25
    troops to a resupply and rotation
  • 01:07:28
    mission in
  • 01:07:29
    our nine occupied geographic features in
  • 01:07:31
    the west philippine sea
  • 01:07:33
    although chinese are still around but we
  • 01:07:35
    can
  • 01:07:36
    still do things that we failed to do
  • 01:07:39
    before like for example now we can now
  • 01:07:42
    repair the runway of pakasa island and
  • 01:07:44
    we can now have a port
  • 01:07:46
    in pakasa island before china was
  • 01:07:50
    apprehending our ships carrying
  • 01:07:53
    construction materials
  • 01:07:55
    but in terms of pagas island china is
  • 01:07:58
    allowing passage of those of
  • 01:08:02
    ships because of our understanding with
  • 01:08:04
    china so that's the
  • 01:08:06
    that's what we are gaining now but the
  • 01:08:08
    trade-off is we need to set aside the
  • 01:08:10
    decision
  • 01:08:11
    of the international arbitral uh
  • 01:08:14
    tribunal
  • 01:08:14
    and at the same time we need to solve
  • 01:08:16
    our problems with china bilaterally
  • 01:08:19
    now we have now what we call the duterte
  • 01:08:20
    doctrine now in the south china sea and
  • 01:08:22
    that is the
  • 01:08:23
    bilateral consultative mechanism with
  • 01:08:26
    china on the south china sea
  • 01:08:27
    and china is offering this kind of model
  • 01:08:30
    now with malaysia
  • 01:08:31
    and offering this model now with brunei
  • 01:08:35
    and uh other clay months like vietnam
  • 01:08:38
    also vietnam is not accepting that kind
  • 01:08:40
    of model
  • 01:08:41
    so that's the kind of exchange that we
  • 01:08:44
    need to do
  • 01:08:44
    so just to conclude this session uh if
  • 01:08:47
    there's anything that we can
  • 01:08:49
    gain from the discussion so far no it's
  • 01:08:52
    that
  • 01:08:52
    participation is key as
  • 01:08:56
    discussions on local and international
  • 01:08:59
    policies are concerned
  • 01:09:01
    while there is a popular perception on
  • 01:09:04
    issues it is imperative that we have a
  • 01:09:07
    well nuanced as well as a well informed
  • 01:09:11
    view and not just be driven by emotions
  • 01:09:16
    by the cliches there might be some
  • 01:09:18
    validity to these popular perceptions
  • 01:09:20
    but it is
  • 01:09:21
    it is necessary for us to critically
  • 01:09:23
    engage them
  • 01:09:24
    and then later on decide now whether
  • 01:09:26
    these perceptions these issues
  • 01:09:29
    impact our degree in our nations as a
  • 01:09:32
    community
  • 01:09:33
    our perspectives on security and quality
  • 01:09:36
    of life
  • 01:09:36
    once again thank you very much romel and
  • 01:09:38
    herman for accommodating us for today's
  • 01:09:40
    session
  • 01:09:41
    thank you for watching and see you in
  • 01:09:42
    the next session
  • 01:09:51
    [Music]
  • 01:10:07
    you
Tags
  • human security
  • national security
  • poverty
  • conflict
  • Philippines
  • Mindanao
  • foreign policy
  • Duterte
  • China relations
  • development