Advocacy Update

01:30:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmoAxRN3ans

Summary

TLDRWebinarul organizat de Asociația Americană de Kratom a discutat mai multe subiecte relevante pentru utilizatorii și susținătorii kratomului. Una dintre principalele teme a fost reglementarea recentă a kratomului din Indonezia, care a provocat îngrijorări privind creșterea prețurilor și capacitatea limitată de procesare care ar putea genera o piață neagră. De asemenea, s-a menționat documentarul Bloomberg care a avut mesaje mixte despre kratom și un articol despre studiile FDA, subliniind limitările privind băuturile lichide problematice. Discuția a evidențiat și influența puternică a comunității kratom în SUA, care a condus la retragerea unor recomandări de reglementare restrictive. Au fost menționate eforturile continue pentru a asigura accesul legal la produse sigure și neinterzise de instituții precum FDA și implicarea agențiilor guvernamentale americane în reglementarea internațională a kratomului. A fost subliniată presiunea politică, socială și economică asupra reglementărilor kratomului și relația complexă cu diverși actori economici și guvernamentali, inclusiv relațiile de putere internațională dintre SUA, Indonezia și China. Participanții la discuție au fost invitați să sprijine eforturile de lobby și advocacy, în timp ce alte inițiative de reglementare au fost discutate pentru a promova siguranța produselor și drepturile consumatorilor.

Takeaways

  • 📈 Reglementările din Indonezia pot crește prețurile kratomului.
  • 🎥 Documentarul Bloomberg are mesaje mixte despre kratom.
  • ⚖️ Advocacy-ul a influențat reglementările kratomului în SUA.
  • 🌍 Reglementările internaționale includ influențe SUA-China.
  • 📜 FDA are obiective ascunse privind interzicerea.
  • 💪 Comunitatea kratom continuă să susțină accesul sigur.
  • 🇮🇩 Relațiile SUA-Indonezia afectează reglementarea kratomului.
  • 🔬 Studiile științifice sunt esențiale pentru reglementarea corectă.
  • 💸 Noile regulamente afectează piața internă și externă a kratomului.
  • 🔍 Investigarea cauzelor de dezinformare este crucială.

Timeline

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    Ryan Burough, directorul executiv al Asociației Americane pentru Katum, deschide întâlnirea pentru a discuta despre noile reglementări katum din Indonezia și alte subiecte. M. Had, expert în politici publice, împărtășește discuția cu un reporter Bloomberg despre un documentar și un articol echilibrat despre studii ale FDA, subliniind implicarea comunității katum în prevenirea unei recomandări de programare DEA din 2016.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    M. Had aduce mulțumiri apărătoriilor katum și menționează recente eforturi legislative și evenimente de advocacy. Se discută participarea la diferite evenimente și o informare congresională viitoare, subliniind importanța vocilor consumatorilor în menținerea accesului legal la produse katum în SUA. Oferă instrucțiuni despre cum participanții pot pune întrebări la sesiunea de Q&A.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Se discută reglementările recente impuse de guvernul indonezian asupra katum, care ar putea duce la creșterea prețurilor produselor în SUA. Se subliniază două obiective: asigurarea unui salariu minim pentru fermierii katum și implementarea unei taxe pe kilogramele exportate. Reglementările asigură materia primă sigură și bine testată pentru export, sprijinind produsul cu standarde de calitate aliniate cu FDA.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Noile reglementări indoneziene impun standarde de calitate stricte și limitează numărul de procesatori licențiați. Aceasta poate reduce capacitatea de procesare, afectând fermierii din cauza unei posibile întârzieri și creând amenințarea unei piețe negre. Limitările privind exporturile de frunze zdrobite vizează industria de extracte, ceea ce poate mări costurile și reduce aprovizionarea.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Restricțiile exportului de materii prime neprocesate se bazează pe comenzile de achiziție, dezavantajând jucătorii mici în favoarea celor mari. Se va evalua capacitatea actuală de procesare din Indonezia, iar AKA plănuiește să lucreze cu producătorii din SUA pentru a dezvolta o campanie bazată pe cercetare cu furnizorii din Indonezia, mai ales datorită influenței reglementărilor asupra prețurilor.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Se discută despre iluzia că sistemul propus va convinge FDA să retragă alerta de import. FDA are un interes ascuns în interzicerea materiilor prime katum ca pseudo-interdicție. AKA se angajează să colaboreze cu guvernul indonezian, oferind recomandări de îmbunătățire, și dezmint faptul că au susținut reglementările fără a fi consultate anterior asupra prevederilor specifice.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    Se abordează implicațiile reglementărilor pentru piețele de extracție și impactul economic, inclusiv companiile chineze interesate de transformarea pădurii în plantații de palmier pentru ulei. Acesta este un domeniu în care interesele comerciale și ecosistemul sunt în conflict. Se dorește crearea unui sistem transparent și echitabil care să protejeze fermierii indonezieni și să răspundă unei piețe internaționale.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    Discuții despre piețele competitive, precum Thailanda și riscurile asociate capacității scăzute de procesare din Indonezia. Se afirmă importanța asigurării unui venit stabil fermierilor, inevitabil influențat de capacitățile de prelucrare și export. Limbajul inițial al legislației este focusul principal al lobby-ului și al negocierilor pe sectorul de extragere a katum.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:45:00

    M. Had solicită comunității să contribuie cu mărturii către legislatori. Subiectul studiului FDA despre katum este analizat, iar impactul acestuia asupra prețurilor și reglementărilor este discutat. Sunt promise mai multe demersuri în 2025, incluzând sesiuni legislative și instruire suplimentară pentru a combate informațiile inexacte și pentru a susține poziția katum.

  • 00:45:00 - 00:50:00

    Se analizează efectele legislative ale articolelor din mass-media asupra percepției publicului și legiuitorilor despre katum. Studiile de toxicologie și procesele medicilor legişti sunt revizuite pentru a verifica eventualele erori. AKA planifică o întărire a relațiilor științifice și politice, inclusiv briefinguri în fața Congresului pentru a actualiza legiuitorii despre știința din spatele katum.

  • 00:50:00 - 00:55:00

    AKA revizuiește şi reproiectează legislațiile KCAP și va organiza un briefing pentru Congres pentru a prezenta date științifice recunoscute. Se vor implica lideri din industria medicală și veterani în campania de informare. Planurile includ lobbying activ pentru KCAP în aproape 30 de state și combaterea distorsiunilor privind produsul la nivel federal și de stat.

  • 00:55:00 - 01:00:00

    Pledarea pentru politici de reglementare mai stricte asupra produselor 7-hidroxi mitragynina și problemele de reglementare pe nivel de stat și federal continuă să fie discutate. Examinarea responsabilităților 7OH și a produselor combinate este crucială pentru siguranță. Se discută dificultățile cu care se confruntă industria pentru îndeplinirea standardelor și reglementărilor federale și locale.

  • 01:00:00 - 01:05:00

    Atenția se concentrează pe diferențele filosofice dintre AKA și Coaliția Globală de Kratom în abordarea reglementărilor. Se susține modelul de auto-reglementare responsabil și se opune unei scheme de reglementare asemănătoare drogurilor, care ar putea elimina producătorii mici din piață. Se compară resursele financiare și capacitatea de a influența legislația la nivel de stat și federal.

  • 01:05:00 - 01:10:00

    AKA susține importanța protejării accesului consumatorilor la produse sigure, subliniind necesitatea inovării și competiției. Influența asupra procesului legislativ și de reglementare este esențială pentru menținerea prețurilor accesibile și extinderea pieței legale. O colaborare mai strânsă între state și actorii din industrie este văzută ca un pas crucial în ajustarea reglementarii de piață.

  • 01:10:00 - 01:15:00

    AKA colaborează cu autoritățile în domeniul sănătății pentru a clarifica rolul reglării katum în Illinois, având susținerea unui lider proeminent în protejarea drepturilor consumatorilor. Concentrarea pe reglementări corecte și protecția cetățenilor este esențială, în special acolo unde agențiile guvernamentale au dificultăți în a defini jurisdicția lor pentru katum.

  • 01:15:00 - 01:20:00

    Studiul FDA despre potențialul abuzului uman de katum este o etapă crucială, iar transparența și precizia științifică sunt esențiale. AKA va monitoriza îndeaproape pentru a asigura corectitudinea procesului, subliniind nevoia de verificare obiectivă și publicarea rezultatelor privind siguranța katum.

  • 01:20:00 - 01:25:00

    Se reia tema importanței colaborării între organizațiile de advocacy pentru consumatorii katum, încercându-se armonizarea relațiilor complexe și tensiunilor dintre diferite organizații. Obiectivul este protejarea dreptului consumatorilor la produse sigure și abordări reglementare echitabile, se așteaptă sprijin din comunitate și organizațiile interesate.

  • 01:25:00 - 01:30:10

    Se subliniază obiectivele pe termen lung ale AKA, concentrându-se pe modele de reglementare eficace, asigurând acces la katum pentru consumatori, și promovând informarea corectă despre siguranța și beneficiile produsului. Îndemnurile se adresează comunității pentru a sprijini misiunea AKA și a colabora în vederea combaterii dezinformării și influențelor nefondate ale organismelor politice.

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Mind Map

Mind Map

Frequently Asked Question

  • Care sunt preocupările principale legate de noile reglementări ale kratomului din Indonezia?

    Reglementările recente din Indonezia privind kratomul au adus îngrijorări cu privire la creșterea prețurilor și capacitatea de procesare, care ar putea duce la o piață neagră.

  • Ce este programul de advocacy pentru veterani menționat în discuție?

    Este un program pentru a susține veteranii în utilizarea kratomului și a îmbunătăți accesul la produse sigure în SUA.

  • Ce acoperă documentarul Bloomberg despre kratom?

    Este un documentar realizat de Bloomberg care explorează aspecte legate de kratom, cu părți controversate și o acoperire general bună a subiectului.

  • Ce detalii sunt discutate în articolul Bloomberg despre kratom?

    Articolul prezintă kratomul și reglementările FDA, subliniind lipsa incluziunii băuturilor lichide problematice în studiile de dozare.

  • Cum au influențat activiștii pentru kratom deciziile privind reglementările acestuia în SUA?

    În SUA, advocacy-ul efectuat de comunitatea kratom a dus la respingerea unor propuneri de interzicere a FDA datorită angajamentului lor fervent.

  • De ce FDA încearcă să oprească vânzarea kratomului?

    FDA se opune kratomului deoarece doresc ca acesta să fie clasificat ca un medicament nou și nu ca un supliment alimentar.

  • Cum folosește Reprezentantul Castor din Florida informații pentru a ataca industria kratomului?

    Reprezentantul Castor din Florida utilizează informații discutabile din media pentru a ataca industria kratomului.

  • Cum influențează FDA autoritățile locale împotriva kratomului?

    Autoritățile locale sunt influențate de campanii de dezinformare ale FDA, care induc interziceri locale ale kratomului.

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  • 00:00:11
    good evening and thank you for joining
  • 00:00:12
    us I'm Ryan burough executive director
  • 00:00:13
    of the American catom Association and we
  • 00:00:15
    are joined this evening by m had senior
  • 00:00:17
    fellow in public policy for the AKA we
  • 00:00:20
    call this meeting tonight to provide you
  • 00:00:21
    with the latest news and discuss amongst
  • 00:00:24
    others the new katum regulation
  • 00:00:25
    announced in Indonesia the Bloomberg
  • 00:00:27
    mini documentary representative Caster
  • 00:00:30
    of Florida and the upcoming introduction
  • 00:00:32
    of our new veterans advocacy program our
  • 00:00:35
    Q&A is now open and I will turn it over
  • 00:00:37
    to Mac uh thank you and let me let me
  • 00:00:39
    first uh uh thank everyone for joining
  • 00:00:42
    us and for those that either are on now
  • 00:00:45
    or watch this later on the video uh I
  • 00:00:48
    had an interesting discussion with a
  • 00:00:50
    Bloomberg news reporter uh earlier today
  • 00:00:53
    and Bloomberg has obviously stepped up
  • 00:00:56
    its interest in katum uh we've seen
  • 00:00:58
    their documentary that came came out
  • 00:01:00
    which I think was had very mixed
  • 00:01:02
    messages uh some that I didn't like uh
  • 00:01:06
    uh and I think were unfair some parts of
  • 00:01:07
    it uh but others were were good and and
  • 00:01:10
    advanced uh the understanding about
  • 00:01:12
    katum and then of course they did what I
  • 00:01:15
    thought was a very balanced article
  • 00:01:16
    somewhat tainted about the fda's uh dose
  • 00:01:20
    finding study and of course they had to
  • 00:01:22
    take their little shot about how it
  • 00:01:24
    didn't include some problematic liquid
  • 00:01:26
    drinks and we're going to talk about
  • 00:01:28
    that a little bit tonight uh
  • 00:01:30
    and uh and then but this this reporter
  • 00:01:33
    was doing a more of a background piece
  • 00:01:36
    and she was questioning me about how it
  • 00:01:39
    was that in
  • 00:01:42
    2016 that this group of ragtag Advocates
  • 00:01:46
    were were able to turn around a a
  • 00:01:50
    scheduling recommendation that had been
  • 00:01:51
    made by the FDA and that was implemented
  • 00:01:55
    by The Drug Enforcement Administration
  • 00:01:57
    and as everyone now knows the historic
  • 00:02:01
    decision of having the DEA withdraw for
  • 00:02:05
    the first time in the history of 80 plus
  • 00:02:08
    recommendations that have been made for
  • 00:02:10
    previous substances under that section
  • 00:02:12
    of the Controlled Substances Act and I
  • 00:02:15
    was able to relate this to this reporter
  • 00:02:17
    that one of the primary reasons for that
  • 00:02:20
    uh withdrawal occurring was because of
  • 00:02:23
    the passion of the katum community katum
  • 00:02:26
    Advocates who use katum that OD that it
  • 00:02:30
    had uh it was safe and that it had some
  • 00:02:33
    benefits for them and their health and
  • 00:02:35
    well-being which under this constitution
  • 00:02:38
    they have the right to make those
  • 00:02:39
    decisions and she pushed back a little
  • 00:02:42
    bit on me and said you know well you
  • 00:02:44
    know The Advocates are up there on
  • 00:02:46
    Capitol Hill all the time uh really
  • 00:02:48
    trying to uh to to advocate for one
  • 00:02:50
    thing or another you would have to admit
  • 00:02:52
    that this was a fairly unique situation
  • 00:02:55
    and I agree it was uh it was a
  • 00:02:57
    miraculous kind of decision that was
  • 00:03:00
    made by thousands upon thousands of uh
  • 00:03:04
    of katom Advocates and I reminded her
  • 00:03:07
    that there were
  • 00:03:09
    147,000 petition signers opposing the
  • 00:03:12
    ban on the we to people platform that is
  • 00:03:15
    maintained by the white house uh that
  • 00:03:17
    was an extraordinary number of Advocates
  • 00:03:20
    and then of course we had thousands and
  • 00:03:22
    thousands of phone calls that went to
  • 00:03:24
    the DEA we had thousands upon thousands
  • 00:03:27
    of of emails that went uh to members of
  • 00:03:31
    Congress uh which which drove them a
  • 00:03:34
    significant number in a very short
  • 00:03:36
    period of time to actually push back on
  • 00:03:39
    the DEA and we got that historic
  • 00:03:41
    decision which remains uh to this day
  • 00:03:44
    the single time that a scheduling
  • 00:03:46
    recommendation has been withdrawn by the
  • 00:03:48
    DEA based on an outcry from constituents
  • 00:03:52
    since then and I told her this that we
  • 00:03:55
    continue to have these Advocates who are
  • 00:03:58
    are willing to serve their Community uh
  • 00:04:02
    with service in the form of showing up
  • 00:04:04
    at meetings for us at hearings uh and at
  • 00:04:08
    events that help us tell the katom story
  • 00:04:11
    because as much as I am able and and
  • 00:04:14
    take advantage of the opportunity uh to
  • 00:04:17
    talk about the policy side of this what
  • 00:04:20
    moves the needle with legislators and
  • 00:04:22
    public policy makers is to hear the
  • 00:04:25
    impassion pleas of creatum consumers uh
  • 00:04:28
    who are uh are able to articulate in a
  • 00:04:32
    very specific way how katum has improved
  • 00:04:34
    the quality of their lives or even saved
  • 00:04:36
    their lives so we're grateful for that
  • 00:04:38
    um we see some extraordinary Advocates
  • 00:04:41
    who are willing to pitch in on specific
  • 00:04:43
    requests that we've made just in the
  • 00:04:45
    last several months to help us in
  • 00:04:47
    sending that message at champ shows at
  • 00:04:49
    the National Conference of State
  • 00:04:51
    Legislature meetings uh we've got an
  • 00:04:53
    upcoming Congressional briefing that
  • 00:04:55
    I'll talk about here in a little while
  • 00:04:57
    uh that is going to highlight some of
  • 00:05:00
    those voices that are so important and
  • 00:05:02
    it become the Hallmark of the success of
  • 00:05:04
    our efforts in preserving legal access
  • 00:05:07
    to crat safe Crum products in the United
  • 00:05:10
    States today so again thank you to all
  • 00:05:12
    of you uh I'm I'm enormously grateful
  • 00:05:15
    the American creatum Association relies
  • 00:05:17
    upon you we we obviously honor you uh
  • 00:05:20
    for all of the work that you do and we
  • 00:05:22
    don't say enough how important what you
  • 00:05:24
    do and how appreciated you are uh for
  • 00:05:27
    those that step up and take a leadership
  • 00:05:29
    role
  • 00:05:30
    in doing so U so first I want to talk
  • 00:05:33
    about the uh Indonesian regulations that
  • 00:05:36
    the Indonesian government has recently
  • 00:05:39
    implemented uh we are now in a review
  • 00:05:42
    period of those regulations despite the
  • 00:05:44
    fact that they are in place now uh
  • 00:05:47
    anyone who tells you that there's a you
  • 00:05:49
    know any kind of a honeymoon period
  • 00:05:51
    that's not true uh we have some deep
  • 00:05:54
    concerns at the American katom
  • 00:05:56
    Association about some of the provisions
  • 00:05:58
    of these regulations because frankly
  • 00:06:00
    they weren't shared with us despite the
  • 00:06:02
    fact that we're in Indonesia with a
  • 00:06:04
    significant delegation uh everybody was
  • 00:06:06
    close to the vest there about what these
  • 00:06:09
    specific Provisions were and so uh so we
  • 00:06:13
    we obviously have some concerns about
  • 00:06:15
    them and by the way just as an
  • 00:06:16
    administrative matter if you have
  • 00:06:18
    questions please enter them uh in the uh
  • 00:06:20
    in the the button at the bottom where
  • 00:06:22
    you have Q&A and we'll get to those
  • 00:06:24
    questions uh before we conclude tonight
  • 00:06:26
    and answer them for you but essentially
  • 00:06:29
    some of the key provisions of the
  • 00:06:32
    Indonesian regulations will result in
  • 00:06:35
    price increases on katom products in the
  • 00:06:38
    United States some of which are
  • 00:06:40
    Justified because they accomplish two
  • 00:06:42
    important objectives that the American
  • 00:06:44
    catom Association uh definitely supports
  • 00:06:48
    first is that one of the provisions of
  • 00:06:50
    this regulation will provide what I like
  • 00:06:53
    to call a minimum wage for those katum
  • 00:06:56
    farmers who are largely Indigent
  • 00:06:58
    families living in remote areas of
  • 00:07:00
    Indonesia who are the lifeline for Crum
  • 00:07:03
    raw materials being harvested and
  • 00:07:05
    processed in order to get them to
  • 00:07:07
    Milling operations prior to their being
  • 00:07:10
    exported to the United States uh that
  • 00:07:13
    increase and a stable minimum wage for
  • 00:07:16
    them will ensure that they can uh have
  • 00:07:19
    an existence that is reliable in terms
  • 00:07:21
    of their income as they go forward now I
  • 00:07:23
    think that there are some caveats to
  • 00:07:25
    that that we'll discuss here in just a
  • 00:07:26
    minute but we welcome uh this minimum
  • 00:07:29
    wage for them it will start at $3 a kilo
  • 00:07:32
    it averages today less than $150 a kilo
  • 00:07:35
    uh it will also graduate over time to $4
  • 00:07:38
    a kilo and then there's an increase for
  • 00:07:40
    the quality of the mogen that they're
  • 00:07:43
    able to harvest which will encourage
  • 00:07:45
    them to wait for the appropriate time to
  • 00:07:48
    harvest rather than doing it a little
  • 00:07:49
    too quickly when the mogen content of
  • 00:07:52
    the Craton plants are not as high so
  • 00:07:54
    that's a positive thing the second cost
  • 00:07:57
    increase uh and again we support it is
  • 00:08:00
    that in order for the government to
  • 00:08:01
    implement this new regulatory plan it
  • 00:08:03
    obviously is going to cost funds to do
  • 00:08:05
    it there's a fiscal note that is
  • 00:08:07
    associated with it and so the government
  • 00:08:09
    has proposed that they will collect on
  • 00:08:11
    each kilo of Crum that is exported from
  • 00:08:14
    Indonesia will include a tariff this is
  • 00:08:17
    common for countries to do this uh we
  • 00:08:20
    understand that it should be done and as
  • 00:08:21
    long as those tariffs are not owner us
  • 00:08:24
    uh and they don't constitute a taking uh
  • 00:08:27
    of the ability of the katum processors
  • 00:08:30
    in order to export katum raw materials
  • 00:08:32
    we support it that will lead to a price
  • 00:08:35
    increase for katum consumers in the
  • 00:08:38
    United States and highlights the
  • 00:08:40
    importance of katum consumers being very
  • 00:08:43
    careful about purchasing katum products
  • 00:08:46
    based on price alone because these
  • 00:08:48
    regulations will ensure a couple of
  • 00:08:50
    things quality crat and raw materials
  • 00:08:53
    well tested materials before they leave
  • 00:08:55
    Indonesia which are part of the funding
  • 00:08:57
    provided by the tariffs where where the
  • 00:09:00
    raw materials will be tested for
  • 00:09:01
    contaminants and any adulterant uh and
  • 00:09:04
    that's an important quality step that
  • 00:09:06
    will be invaluable for us in presenting
  • 00:09:09
    to the Food and Drug Administration A
  • 00:09:11
    system that is committed to the
  • 00:09:13
    wholesomeness of crat and raw materials
  • 00:09:16
    that meet or exceed FDA standards as
  • 00:09:19
    they go forward here in the United
  • 00:09:20
    States so we welcome this uh we think
  • 00:09:22
    it's an important step uh forward in
  • 00:09:25
    this regard now the other thing that
  • 00:09:27
    these regul several things these Reg
  • 00:09:29
    ulations do first they impose a quality
  • 00:09:32
    standard that is required for the export
  • 00:09:35
    of the raw materials uh and that will
  • 00:09:37
    mean that they have to have the capacity
  • 00:09:40
    to not only uh process these materials
  • 00:09:43
    making certain that they are free from
  • 00:09:44
    contaminants which means they have to
  • 00:09:46
    use food grade machines uh which are
  • 00:09:49
    sterilized which are stainless steel uh
  • 00:09:51
    and I fear that they do not currently
  • 00:09:54
    have the export capacity to meet demand
  • 00:09:57
    here in the United States now there are
  • 00:10:00
    people in Indonesia that dispute that
  • 00:10:02
    and say no we'll be able to meet the
  • 00:10:03
    demand uh I don't think that they've
  • 00:10:06
    rationally thought through this at this
  • 00:10:07
    point nor have they pressure tested that
  • 00:10:09
    claim uh and so it will be important to
  • 00:10:12
    be able to process enough material that
  • 00:10:15
    is collected from the farmers to make
  • 00:10:17
    sure that the system works properly but
  • 00:10:19
    if there becomes a backlog of this
  • 00:10:21
    material because there's not a
  • 00:10:23
    processing capacity by the qualified
  • 00:10:26
    licensed processors and I'm told that
  • 00:10:29
    the the government initially at least
  • 00:10:30
    for the first six months will probably
  • 00:10:33
    license no more than six of these
  • 00:10:35
    processors Milling operations and I
  • 00:10:38
    don't think that meets the demand and
  • 00:10:40
    we're going to watch this closely we're
  • 00:10:42
    going to test whether or not the claims
  • 00:10:44
    made by the Indonesian uh processors
  • 00:10:47
    over there pass muster uh because it is
  • 00:10:49
    important to ensure that that quality of
  • 00:10:51
    the raw materials are there and if you
  • 00:10:52
    develop a huge backlog two things will
  • 00:10:55
    happen farmers will not get paid because
  • 00:10:57
    they're not going to need as many much
  • 00:11:00
    of the cating raw material so even
  • 00:11:01
    though you've boosted the price if you
  • 00:11:03
    if you purchase less the effect is the
  • 00:11:05
    same in terms of disadvantaging those
  • 00:11:07
    farmers and their families and if you
  • 00:11:09
    have too big of a backlog it creates a
  • 00:11:12
    black market where people will work
  • 00:11:14
    around that system and that increases
  • 00:11:16
    the threat of contaminated raw materials
  • 00:11:19
    being shipped into the United States as
  • 00:11:21
    we go forward so we're concerned about
  • 00:11:24
    the regulations not having a a phase in
  • 00:11:27
    Period that would allow for a more
  • 00:11:29
    effective way of merely lab testing the
  • 00:11:32
    materials prior to export rather than
  • 00:11:34
    restricting the number of processors uh
  • 00:11:37
    and thereby restricting the capacity
  • 00:11:39
    that they can generate of of uh quality
  • 00:11:42
    raw materials that are free from
  • 00:11:43
    contamination uh they're still going to
  • 00:11:45
    do testing by the way and I think that's
  • 00:11:46
    an important step in order to validate
  • 00:11:48
    what the processors are doing uh they
  • 00:11:51
    also have imposed the limit on crushed
  • 00:11:53
    leaves and crumbs being exported the
  • 00:11:56
    target for that limitation on crushed
  • 00:11:59
    leav leaves and crumbs as opposed to
  • 00:12:00
    processed powder is they're targeting
  • 00:12:03
    the extract industry um that is a
  • 00:12:06
    mistake because most of the uh marketing
  • 00:12:10
    uh of katum products in the United
  • 00:12:12
    States is focused on extract products I
  • 00:12:14
    am not talking about highly concentrated
  • 00:12:17
    and dangerous products I'm talking about
  • 00:12:19
    extracts that are recognized in the food
  • 00:12:22
    drug and cosmetic act as common in the
  • 00:12:24
    dietary supplement space that are
  • 00:12:26
    extracted using food grade solvents
  • 00:12:29
    under under processes that are approved
  • 00:12:31
    by International standards that produce
  • 00:12:34
    safe materials uh that's the kind of
  • 00:12:36
    extract material that I'm talking about
  • 00:12:38
    and too often we conflate an extract
  • 00:12:41
    material somehow being dangerous when
  • 00:12:43
    it's compared to a highly concentrated
  • 00:12:46
    and products that should should not be
  • 00:12:48
    formulated in that way uh that would in
  • 00:12:50
    fact present a threat to Consumers so
  • 00:12:53
    when I talk about extracts it's
  • 00:12:55
    important to note that we're talking
  • 00:12:56
    about those that are processed correctly
  • 00:12:58
    used food grade solvents approved by the
  • 00:13:01
    FDA for that purpose but the Indonesian
  • 00:13:04
    government has said that they will not
  • 00:13:06
    allow any export of crushed leaves or
  • 00:13:09
    crumbs which means two things will
  • 00:13:11
    happen in order to do extraction
  • 00:13:13
    methodology for products like that you
  • 00:13:15
    would have to consume a significant
  • 00:13:17
    amount of powdered Crum material uh If
  • 00:13:20
    you eliminate crushed leaves and crumbs
  • 00:13:23
    uh and that's because you in order for
  • 00:13:25
    the solvents to work effectively you to
  • 00:13:27
    extract the mogyy uh you have to have a
  • 00:13:30
    larger surface area or it becomes
  • 00:13:32
    largely inefficient and unfortunately as
  • 00:13:35
    it stands now this limitation on crust
  • 00:13:38
    leaves and crumbs that currently exists
  • 00:13:41
    right now uh are are going to be
  • 00:13:44
    burdensome and I think overly
  • 00:13:45
    restrictive and potentially going to
  • 00:13:47
    create a real problem because it will
  • 00:13:49
    consume much of the powdered material
  • 00:13:52
    which will again uh shrink the supply
  • 00:13:54
    drive up demand and increase cost
  • 00:13:56
    unnecessarily along the way so we should
  • 00:13:59
    be prepared for that there also are
  • 00:14:02
    regulations as we understand them that
  • 00:14:04
    will limit the amount of M processed raw
  • 00:14:07
    material that can be shipped from
  • 00:14:09
    exporters that are registered with the
  • 00:14:11
    government based on a qualif
  • 00:14:14
    pre-qualification procedure meaning that
  • 00:14:16
    they will limit the amount to a purchase
  • 00:14:19
    order that is provided by the processor
  • 00:14:23
    well that doesn't work very well when
  • 00:14:25
    you have a lot of the processing that
  • 00:14:27
    goes on now and the shipping and
  • 00:14:28
    exporting out of Indonesia that arrives
  • 00:14:30
    in the United States in warehouses here
  • 00:14:32
    and there they await the purchase orders
  • 00:14:34
    so you create a lag in the marketplace
  • 00:14:37
    that Demands a purchase order upfront
  • 00:14:39
    and then if the if the processor
  • 00:14:43
    produces you know effectively uh
  • 00:14:46
    processes and sends and exports that
  • 00:14:47
    material then they could apply for
  • 00:14:50
    additional uh export uh capacity and
  • 00:14:53
    quantities based on purchase orders and
  • 00:14:56
    so you reward the big uh players in in
  • 00:14:59
    the industry and you significantly
  • 00:15:01
    disadvantage the smaller players because
  • 00:15:03
    they're not going to be offering
  • 00:15:05
    purchase orders for large volumes and
  • 00:15:07
    you will have the large vendors
  • 00:15:09
    overwhelm the small guys that's just
  • 00:15:12
    simply unfair and and not very well
  • 00:15:14
    thought out when it comes to uh the way
  • 00:15:17
    that the the the regulation should
  • 00:15:19
    actually work in order to support a
  • 00:15:22
    robust American uh katum Marketplace we
  • 00:15:26
    are told that we'll have 6 months of
  • 00:15:28
    this Burning period before any changes
  • 00:15:30
    can be made uh to this regulation we are
  • 00:15:33
    going to be working with manufacturers
  • 00:15:35
    here in the United States to ask them to
  • 00:15:38
    to to build up a Grassroots campaign in
  • 00:15:40
    Indonesia with their katum suppliers
  • 00:15:43
    many of whom likely will be eliminated
  • 00:15:45
    in this process at least for the short
  • 00:15:47
    term because they're restricting the
  • 00:15:49
    number of of licenses that are be going
  • 00:15:51
    to be granted under the uh the current
  • 00:15:54
    process for export uh we're very
  • 00:15:56
    concerned about all of those elements of
  • 00:15:59
    this at the end of the day what we hope
  • 00:16:01
    will be true is that you will have a
  • 00:16:04
    system that protects the farmers and
  • 00:16:06
    currently just so everyone knows the way
  • 00:16:09
    the system has disadvantaged the farmers
  • 00:16:11
    is that because of the import alert it
  • 00:16:13
    is a highrisk Endeavor to purchase katum
  • 00:16:17
    raw materials from Farmers and then for
  • 00:16:19
    the processor or the broker that
  • 00:16:21
    purchases those raw materials to take
  • 00:16:23
    all of the risk of getting the the raw
  • 00:16:26
    materials exported to the United States
  • 00:16:28
    through custom
  • 00:16:29
    and then into a processor who only pay
  • 00:16:32
    for it if uh they've tested it to be
  • 00:16:34
    free from contaminants and it actually
  • 00:16:36
    arrives at their manufacturing facility
  • 00:16:39
    and so that has forced A A A system that
  • 00:16:43
    pays the farmer A reduced amount because
  • 00:16:45
    the risks are assumed by the the Brokers
  • 00:16:48
    or the processors and it is unfair to
  • 00:16:51
    the farmers and understanding the way uh
  • 00:16:53
    trade commodity practices work this is
  • 00:16:56
    an anomaly created completely and
  • 00:16:58
    totally by the fda's import alert that
  • 00:17:01
    import alert has to go and there's a
  • 00:17:03
    plan that we have for it but I'll tell
  • 00:17:05
    you the one fallacy that the Indonesian
  • 00:17:07
    government officials however
  • 00:17:09
    well-intentioned their efforts in in
  • 00:17:11
    formulating this regulation and where
  • 00:17:13
    they missed the boat they believe that
  • 00:17:16
    if they were to produce a system that
  • 00:17:19
    guarantees that katum exported raw
  • 00:17:21
    materials from Indonesia will be fully
  • 00:17:24
    tested for contaminants that will only
  • 00:17:26
    be processed by GMP qualif IED
  • 00:17:29
    processors that use that use stainless
  • 00:17:32
    steel food grade equipment that reduces
  • 00:17:34
    the potential for contamination and if
  • 00:17:36
    they can prove it with a test they
  • 00:17:38
    believe the Indonesian officials believe
  • 00:17:40
    and they stated it to me that the FDA
  • 00:17:43
    will withdraw its import alert that is
  • 00:17:45
    not true the FDA uses the import alert
  • 00:17:49
    as a ruse in order to execute their
  • 00:17:51
    effort to ban Crum raw materials in the
  • 00:17:54
    and katum products in the United States
  • 00:17:56
    their theory is they can abuse their
  • 00:17:58
    import alert Authority granted to them
  • 00:18:00
    by Congress in order to allow the uh to
  • 00:18:04
    stop the importation of raw materials as
  • 00:18:06
    a defacto ban that's what they want and
  • 00:18:08
    it has nothing to do with the quality of
  • 00:18:10
    those raw materials coming into the
  • 00:18:12
    United States in fact the Indonesian
  • 00:18:14
    government has done an excellent job in
  • 00:18:16
    in certainly in controlling the
  • 00:18:18
    contamination of raw materials because
  • 00:18:20
    the last known outbreak of salmonella or
  • 00:18:23
    eoli occurred in the United States
  • 00:18:26
    associated with Craton raw materials in
  • 00:18:27
    2018 there hasn't been one another one
  • 00:18:30
    since but you can see every week that
  • 00:18:33
    there are outbreaks of Sal salmonella
  • 00:18:35
    and eoli on a number of produce and meat
  • 00:18:38
    products that are coming into the United
  • 00:18:40
    States and it's common for these kinds
  • 00:18:42
    of products for that to happen and lots
  • 00:18:44
    of different sources and none of those
  • 00:18:46
    none of those outbreaks of salmonella or
  • 00:18:48
    ecoli result in the FDA calling for a
  • 00:18:51
    ban on the products that are subjected
  • 00:18:54
    to that scrutiny along the way it is
  • 00:18:56
    unfair to katom and we've known that
  • 00:18:58
    that's the hand that we're dealt with
  • 00:19:00
    the FDA so we simply have to deal with
  • 00:19:03
    it uh we we are going we are pledging
  • 00:19:06
    and I have committed to the Indonesian
  • 00:19:08
    government that the American catom
  • 00:19:10
    Association will continue to be a good
  • 00:19:12
    partner uh and that means that we're
  • 00:19:14
    going to provide recommendations for
  • 00:19:17
    improving their systems we're going to
  • 00:19:19
    do so we're going to tell them when we
  • 00:19:20
    disagree and I have in fact when I spoke
  • 00:19:23
    to the minister of trade he was shocked
  • 00:19:26
    that the American catom Association had
  • 00:19:28
    raised the the concerns that we
  • 00:19:29
    identified that I just articulated with
  • 00:19:32
    you uh because he believed that the
  • 00:19:34
    American catom Association had endorsed
  • 00:19:37
    these regulations we had not even been
  • 00:19:39
    pre presented with the opportunity to
  • 00:19:41
    review them prior to their enactment uh
  • 00:19:44
    and and while we conceptually understood
  • 00:19:46
    that they were doing these regulations
  • 00:19:49
    we had no idea of the specific
  • 00:19:51
    Provisions that I've discussed with you
  • 00:19:53
    here uh that obviously are problematic
  • 00:19:55
    as we go forward so that being said uh
  • 00:19:58
    we we have a few months where there's
  • 00:20:01
    going to be turbulence in the
  • 00:20:02
    marketplace it is guaranteed that that's
  • 00:20:05
    going to happen uh we hope that it'll
  • 00:20:07
    smooth out with some negotiations that
  • 00:20:08
    are ongoing we hope that there will be a
  • 00:20:11
    carve out for some of these uh raw
  • 00:20:14
    materials so that we don't have these
  • 00:20:15
    shortages that are anticipated and that
  • 00:20:18
    we can develop a a alternative uh
  • 00:20:21
    workaround at least for the first
  • 00:20:23
    several months so that we can make sure
  • 00:20:25
    that the needs of the American Consumer
  • 00:20:27
    and globally by the way because this
  • 00:20:29
    impacts them going forward let me just
  • 00:20:31
    finish by saying you know what the
  • 00:20:33
    theory is behind the the crush leaves
  • 00:20:36
    and crumbs that are necessary for the uh
  • 00:20:39
    the extract products and the extraction
  • 00:20:41
    methodology for that uh the there is a
  • 00:20:45
    clear bias in Indonesia uh about extract
  • 00:20:49
    products and that is because it is
  • 00:20:51
    illegal right now in Indonesia to
  • 00:20:54
    extract Crum raw materials into extract
  • 00:20:57
    raw materials and and so there's no
  • 00:20:59
    economic incentive and in fact the
  • 00:21:01
    limitation they placed on the crush
  • 00:21:03
    leaves and the crumbs put in a size
  • 00:21:05
    limitation based on a mesh size for
  • 00:21:08
    which the material could fall through
  • 00:21:09
    the mesh uh that simply added a
  • 00:21:11
    requirement that allowed for Indonesian
  • 00:21:14
    processors to have control of the crumbs
  • 00:21:17
    and Crush Leaf material uh so that they
  • 00:21:20
    could be a part of the financial
  • 00:21:22
    transaction that's going on uh we hope
  • 00:21:24
    that we can relieve that issue as well
  • 00:21:27
    uh we think it's very important for to
  • 00:21:28
    happen and so we will keep you posted as
  • 00:21:31
    we go forward uh on that I'm going to
  • 00:21:33
    pause for just a minute and see if there
  • 00:21:35
    are issues or questions um about the uh
  • 00:21:39
    the Indonesian situation I'm going to
  • 00:21:41
    scan through them real quickly um well
  • 00:21:43
    here's a good question what is the
  • 00:21:44
    opinion of Thai katum and the upcoming
  • 00:21:46
    Boon of imports Thailand seems to have
  • 00:21:48
    better tasted in harvesting practices so
  • 00:21:51
    there's a this is a great question
  • 00:21:52
    because there are some reports that I've
  • 00:21:54
    received that there are some processes
  • 00:21:57
    that the tie um the the Thai
  • 00:22:00
    manufacturers of katum are using that
  • 00:22:02
    are different from Indonesia in terms of
  • 00:22:05
    the drying process and that may account
  • 00:22:07
    for some of the uh uh the the taste of
  • 00:22:11
    of Thai material but what is important
  • 00:22:14
    is that when you see a uh an increase in
  • 00:22:18
    the price driven by a floor price or a
  • 00:22:20
    minimum wage for farmers and the tariffs
  • 00:22:23
    it makes Indonesian uh Crum raw
  • 00:22:26
    materials more expensive and makes Thai
  • 00:22:28
    raw materials more competitive and so
  • 00:22:31
    that I think that's healthy by the way
  • 00:22:33
    but it certainly won't be something the
  • 00:22:34
    Indonesian Farmers want to hear about
  • 00:22:36
    that these regulations delivered a an
  • 00:22:38
    unforeseen and unanticipated consequence
  • 00:22:41
    that you may have more competition in
  • 00:22:43
    the marketplace with Thai products but I
  • 00:22:46
    I've heard this repeatedly that uh that
  • 00:22:49
    the Thai Crum seems to taste better and
  • 00:22:51
    goes down better so we'll see uh Kim
  • 00:22:53
    asked the question beside in Indonesia
  • 00:22:55
    what other countries are exporting crat
  • 00:22:57
    to the US market what is the Outlook
  • 00:22:58
    that these other countries will
  • 00:22:59
    Implement similar legislation as in
  • 00:23:01
    Indonesia did first Thailand has already
  • 00:23:04
    done so um they uh they have a very
  • 00:23:07
    tightly controlled Marketplace uh but
  • 00:23:10
    they they're they're actually doing the
  • 00:23:13
    traceability of the raw materials which
  • 00:23:15
    is a key element that the FDA likes to
  • 00:23:17
    see in a balls and Strikes environment
  • 00:23:20
    if they were just looking at protecting
  • 00:23:22
    Crum raw materials if the FDA were just
  • 00:23:24
    doing that they would welcome that
  • 00:23:25
    traceability part of it and the
  • 00:23:27
    Indonesian while it's not part of the
  • 00:23:29
    regulations the Indonesian Growers are
  • 00:23:31
    developing a similar system in fact I
  • 00:23:34
    just got their their program it's called
  • 00:23:35
    sepor and if I can get it up there so
  • 00:23:38
    seorai is their process to do a
  • 00:23:41
    computerized system to track the Crum
  • 00:23:44
    leaves back to the farm and the tree
  • 00:23:46
    where they originate so I think that's
  • 00:23:48
    that's a good thing but that's already
  • 00:23:49
    being done in Thailand I think that
  • 00:23:52
    there are other countries where TI where
  • 00:23:54
    where Crum is being grown uh there are
  • 00:23:57
    new plantations being developed and I
  • 00:23:59
    think they've come online in Africa and
  • 00:24:01
    so there's another potential competitive
  • 00:24:03
    Marketplace depends on how it's done but
  • 00:24:06
    uh this is a situation of following the
  • 00:24:09
    money and in some cases the incentive
  • 00:24:12
    for increased profits or increased
  • 00:24:15
    pricing uh can overwhelm good sense and
  • 00:24:18
    uh there's a balance here and we want to
  • 00:24:20
    help them maintain that balance as we go
  • 00:24:22
    forward so I think that's uh uh that's
  • 00:24:24
    terrific um so uh Jeff said sounds like
  • 00:24:28
    a lot of moving parts are relatively
  • 00:24:30
    unsophisticated Farmers they are
  • 00:24:32
    unsophisticated they are poor families
  • 00:24:35
    uh they live in remote regions where the
  • 00:24:37
    the trees grow ubiquitously it is an
  • 00:24:40
    economic opportunity for them it doesn't
  • 00:24:42
    mean that they have the
  • 00:24:44
    sophistication uh that is required to be
  • 00:24:47
    business people uh and that allows for
  • 00:24:49
    them to be uh frankly abused along the
  • 00:24:52
    way and that's why I think it's a good
  • 00:24:54
    thing that you put in this minimum price
  • 00:24:57
    uh as a minimum wage because I think
  • 00:24:59
    it'll protect them along the way uh and
  • 00:25:02
    I think that that's uh very important
  • 00:25:04
    and we support it but it does have
  • 00:25:07
    consequences um as we go forward uh so
  • 00:25:10
    so we'll see how that develops um
  • 00:25:12
    Jennifer says does it mean the farmers
  • 00:25:14
    are being knocked out by tariffs giving
  • 00:25:15
    larger companies to get control and buy
  • 00:25:17
    from small farmers than charging more
  • 00:25:19
    from us and giving them less for the
  • 00:25:20
    product so here's the way it works the
  • 00:25:23
    there no longer will be a an opportunity
  • 00:25:26
    for a farmer to sell their Crum raw
  • 00:25:28
    materials to anyone who shows up and
  • 00:25:30
    says I'll buy it it has to be sold to a
  • 00:25:33
    qualified registered processor that's
  • 00:25:36
    the only way the crat and raw materials
  • 00:25:38
    are going to be exported out of
  • 00:25:39
    Indonesia so there won't be this
  • 00:25:42
    opportunity to shop around uh and in
  • 00:25:45
    fact they will have very limited
  • 00:25:46
    opportunities and the the the exchange
  • 00:25:49
    for that is that they get a guaranteed
  • 00:25:51
    price of $3 a kilo start out goes to
  • 00:25:54
    four $4 I think within a year so that's
  • 00:25:57
    the tradeoff and again a little
  • 00:26:00
    difficult to figure that out but uh they
  • 00:26:02
    will be they will suffer from a a choke
  • 00:26:05
    hold or tourniquet that's devised by the
  • 00:26:08
    qualified raw material manufacturers if
  • 00:26:10
    they cannot process it with the
  • 00:26:12
    available equipment and that's the real
  • 00:26:15
    question today is does the existing
  • 00:26:18
    capacity have the kind of throughput
  • 00:26:20
    that allows for the market globally to
  • 00:26:23
    be served and I don't think it does
  • 00:26:25
    based on the visit that we just had
  • 00:26:27
    there uh there's not enough online today
  • 00:26:30
    online processing facilities that meet
  • 00:26:31
    FDA quality standards that can uh meet
  • 00:26:34
    the demand and that's the concern that
  • 00:26:36
    I've got so uh we will see how that
  • 00:26:39
    works uh John asked what the realistic
  • 00:26:41
    timetable for reversing the FDA import
  • 00:26:43
    alert whether through legislation or
  • 00:26:44
    litigation uh we are going to refile the
  • 00:26:47
    federal K kcpa which will provide that
  • 00:26:51
    the the import alert gets lifted directs
  • 00:26:53
    the FDA to lift it but there is a very
  • 00:26:55
    interesting uh thing that happened when
  • 00:26:58
    the Supreme Court ruled in a uh in a
  • 00:27:01
    completely separate issue called the
  • 00:27:02
    chevron case which essentially says that
  • 00:27:05
    the federal judges no longer H are are
  • 00:27:09
    compelled to rely upon the
  • 00:27:11
    interpretation of the federal agency of
  • 00:27:13
    the statute when there's any ambiguity
  • 00:27:16
    now the agency's burden of proof in a
  • 00:27:19
    federal court of law will be that their
  • 00:27:20
    interpretation is correct and based on
  • 00:27:22
    good science it is a it is a great
  • 00:27:25
    opportunity for the import alert to be
  • 00:27:27
    challenged then we're working with our
  • 00:27:29
    legal teams and in cooperation with some
  • 00:27:31
    of the importers to see if we can put
  • 00:27:34
    together a case that will challenge the
  • 00:27:36
    import alert going forward and I think
  • 00:27:38
    that's important the pressure of the
  • 00:27:41
    Indonesian regulations will be important
  • 00:27:44
    not just to the FDA and I I think
  • 00:27:46
    frankly the FDA is going to ignore them
  • 00:27:48
    but they will be important to uh to the
  • 00:27:51
    Department of Commerce and to the
  • 00:27:52
    Department of State and to the
  • 00:27:54
    Congressional foreign policy committees
  • 00:27:56
    all of whom have a much larger role to
  • 00:27:59
    play in this this foreign policy
  • 00:28:02
    Universe where they want to develop a
  • 00:28:04
    foreign policy program that uh that that
  • 00:28:07
    offsets the influence that the Chinese
  • 00:28:09
    government is trying to exert in
  • 00:28:11
    Indonesia financially and socially and
  • 00:28:14
    so the for example the Chinese
  • 00:28:16
    government has come in and said we will
  • 00:28:18
    we will help you burn down the Crum
  • 00:28:20
    Forest the the rainforce where katum
  • 00:28:23
    trees grow and we will help you build
  • 00:28:25
    palm oil plantations because there is a
  • 00:28:27
    huge demand by Chinese uh processors to
  • 00:28:30
    feed a growing demand for palm oil which
  • 00:28:33
    is used in food products around the
  • 00:28:34
    globe and so uh it is in the United
  • 00:28:37
    States interest to offset that influence
  • 00:28:40
    and if the FDA is Prosecuting their own
  • 00:28:43
    Petty battle about wanting to ban katum
  • 00:28:46
    using the uh the import alert process
  • 00:28:49
    and abusing it I should say uh then I
  • 00:28:51
    think these other agencies and Congress
  • 00:28:53
    can weigh in and say enough enough of
  • 00:28:55
    the nonsense enough for the petty
  • 00:28:57
    childish behavior we now got to do the
  • 00:28:59
    right thing uh in order to maintain a
  • 00:29:02
    consistent foreign policy and so the
  • 00:29:04
    Indonesian government um is now working
  • 00:29:08
    uh with uh will be working with the uh
  • 00:29:12
    the AKA and these these other agencies
  • 00:29:14
    in the federal government in order to
  • 00:29:16
    deliver uh that message uh Michael Fano
  • 00:29:20
    asked as is the BNN still pursuing any
  • 00:29:22
    Indonesian B uh in a meeting last year
  • 00:29:25
    uh that we were invited to participate
  • 00:29:27
    in general Moko the chief of staff to
  • 00:29:29
    president chawi uh convened all
  • 00:29:31
    stakeholders meeting and included the
  • 00:29:34
    BNN they were given uh a substantial
  • 00:29:37
    amount of time to make their
  • 00:29:38
    presentation General Moko then invited
  • 00:29:40
    the scientists that were there from the
  • 00:29:42
    United States and the American catom
  • 00:29:44
    Association to make our case we were
  • 00:29:46
    given an adequate amount of time to do
  • 00:29:48
    that and at the end General Moko said
  • 00:29:50
    that he was persuaded by the scientist
  • 00:29:53
    and by the way the uh the Indonesian
  • 00:29:55
    Brin which is their equivalent of the
  • 00:29:57
    national institutes on health a
  • 00:29:58
    research-based organization and their
  • 00:30:01
    Ministry of Health both weighed in on
  • 00:30:02
    our side and so uh General Moko said
  • 00:30:05
    that the policy of the uh Indonesian
  • 00:30:07
    government would be that kraton would be
  • 00:30:09
    treated as a medicinal herb and that the
  • 00:30:11
    BNN would not be uh allowed to to
  • 00:30:14
    implement their proposed ban now that
  • 00:30:17
    doesn't mean the BNN is not continuing
  • 00:30:20
    uh to to pursue their efforts to get
  • 00:30:22
    katum banned they're doing it at the
  • 00:30:24
    Aion uh group uh because they're the
  • 00:30:27
    indes Ian representative and we're
  • 00:30:29
    talking to the Indonesian government
  • 00:30:30
    about that problem uh so they're
  • 00:30:32
    continuing to do it uh Brian ask what is
  • 00:30:35
    the status of fair trade negotiation
  • 00:30:37
    with the copu group uh I'm I'm going to
  • 00:30:39
    be as delicate as I can be cou is a
  • 00:30:42
    small Cog in a very large machine uh
  • 00:30:46
    over in Indonesia there are one of about
  • 00:30:48
    nine or 10 uh of the The Growers groups
  • 00:30:51
    uh we we dealt in good faith from the
  • 00:30:54
    American catom Association with copou
  • 00:30:57
    and the leader of C
  • 00:30:58
    in Indonesia and what we discovered was
  • 00:31:01
    that uh that there was a lack of
  • 00:31:04
    Integrity in the pronouncements and
  • 00:31:07
    statements that were made by the copou
  • 00:31:10
    leaders about what their role in the
  • 00:31:12
    actual production of crat and raw
  • 00:31:14
    materials were being sold and exported
  • 00:31:16
    to the United States for sale and and it
  • 00:31:19
    was it became an irresolvable conflict
  • 00:31:21
    because there you couldn't depend on
  • 00:31:23
    anything that was being said and every
  • 00:31:26
    time they were they were Challen
  • 00:31:28
    the story changed and so uh I will
  • 00:31:31
    respect anyone who wants to keep katum
  • 00:31:34
    legal copero actually proposed last year
  • 00:31:38
    to the Indonesian government that all
  • 00:31:41
    catom exports to the United States
  • 00:31:43
    should be terminated until they
  • 00:31:46
    developed a system that benefited them
  • 00:31:48
    and that's self-serving it's it's
  • 00:31:50
    frankly a financial incentive that
  • 00:31:52
    overcame good sense and so I can tell
  • 00:31:55
    you my perspective my opinion that until
  • 00:31:58
    copou wants to come into the family of
  • 00:32:01
    responsible people that want to do this
  • 00:32:04
    then I don't think that they've earned a
  • 00:32:05
    seat at the table at this point now I'm
  • 00:32:07
    not disrespecting the perspective that
  • 00:32:10
    they have in terms of their so-called
  • 00:32:12
    fair trade negotiation their fair trade
  • 00:32:14
    status was far more onor than giving a
  • 00:32:17
    minimum wage to the farmers they wanted
  • 00:32:20
    to set the price going out of Indonesia
  • 00:32:22
    and that was for the benefit not of the
  • 00:32:24
    farmers but rather of the processors and
  • 00:32:27
    to me price fixing like that has no
  • 00:32:30
    place in a free enterprise system as it
  • 00:32:32
    is we have to accommodate a a u a
  • 00:32:34
    tainted system that the import alert has
  • 00:32:37
    imposed on them but the solution is not
  • 00:32:39
    to go into these price fixing things I
  • 00:32:42
    respect that the leader of the copu
  • 00:32:45
    group Johannes can have a different
  • 00:32:47
    viewpoint but in front of many witnesses
  • 00:32:50
    he misrepresented and he changed his
  • 00:32:52
    story consistently when challenged uh
  • 00:32:55
    where to the point that it just there's
  • 00:32:56
    no reliability anything that was said so
  • 00:32:59
    that's why the current status of the
  • 00:33:01
    copou discussions and I understand that
  • 00:33:04
    uh that the copou has a a group of
  • 00:33:06
    followers in the United States uh who
  • 00:33:08
    are working with them in business
  • 00:33:10
    relationships to franchise uh catom
  • 00:33:12
    sales in the individual states I know
  • 00:33:15
    and respect several of those people that
  • 00:33:17
    are working with them Paul Kemp's an
  • 00:33:18
    example uh Paul is a tremendous catom
  • 00:33:22
    Advocate and I respect him beyond belief
  • 00:33:25
    but people can be wrong just as I can be
  • 00:33:27
    wrong by the way but in this case the
  • 00:33:29
    evidence is clear that the coper boot
  • 00:33:32
    group uh tried to overstate and overplay
  • 00:33:34
    their role along the way so I am much
  • 00:33:37
    more encouraged by the other eight
  • 00:33:39
    groups or nine groups whatever many
  • 00:33:41
    there are right now uh being having
  • 00:33:43
    Fidelity to the goal going forward so if
  • 00:33:46
    i' if I've stepped on the toes of the
  • 00:33:48
    cop group I apologize I didn't intend to
  • 00:33:51
    do that I wanted to Simply State the
  • 00:33:53
    position Daniel Torres who is one of the
  • 00:33:55
    copou leaders in the United States sits
  • 00:33:58
    behind a keyboard and he asks these
  • 00:34:00
    question he claims ask questions be's
  • 00:34:02
    taking pot shots at me and the AKA and I
  • 00:34:04
    invited him to come on a webinar like
  • 00:34:07
    this one and we could have a fa debate
  • 00:34:09
    he has declined and I just don't think
  • 00:34:12
    he said well he'll meet with me
  • 00:34:13
    oneon-one why would I do that why what
  • 00:34:16
    good would come from having a sitdown
  • 00:34:17
    session oneon-one to consume time to do
  • 00:34:20
    that when the real issues or the ones
  • 00:34:22
    that he identifies when he sits behind
  • 00:34:23
    that keyboard and puts up on social
  • 00:34:26
    media platforms I just just don't think
  • 00:34:28
    that's the right way to do things and
  • 00:34:29
    and I think we ought to be transparent
  • 00:34:30
    and open book I want to be that and so I
  • 00:34:33
    went on a podcast just last weekend and
  • 00:34:35
    you can go watch it uh where you know we
  • 00:34:37
    talked about this but Daniel Torres
  • 00:34:39
    refused he's part of the cop coper group
  • 00:34:42
    so I hope we can find a way to negotiate
  • 00:34:45
    and work together uh where we have
  • 00:34:47
    common goals and I hope that they will
  • 00:34:49
    understand that there is a far better
  • 00:34:51
    process that protects not only the
  • 00:34:53
    farmers in Indonesia but also protects
  • 00:34:56
    consumers in the United States
  • 00:34:58
    and we don't have these intervening
  • 00:35:00
    money issues that are purely price
  • 00:35:03
    controls that harm everyone in that
  • 00:35:05
    process and that's what copou was at
  • 00:35:07
    least advocating last year when we met
  • 00:35:09
    with them in IND Indonesia so uh that's
  • 00:35:12
    that's where we stand on that issue
  • 00:35:14
    right now
  • 00:35:15
    um Nicholas ask are many of the katom
  • 00:35:18
    powdered products from Southeast Asia
  • 00:35:19
    generally organic and made without
  • 00:35:21
    pesticides is there anything that can be
  • 00:35:22
    changed the nutrient and alkaloid
  • 00:35:24
    profile of katum leaves um this is this
  • 00:35:27
    is an interesting but complex question
  • 00:35:29
    uh most of the Crum raw materials that
  • 00:35:31
    are produced in Indonesia do not have
  • 00:35:33
    the benefit of of any pesticides because
  • 00:35:35
    they're not needed um there may be some
  • 00:35:39
    uh plantations where there are specific
  • 00:35:41
    local problems with pesticide pests and
  • 00:35:43
    maybe that's going to happen but it it
  • 00:35:45
    certainly doesn't be need need to be
  • 00:35:47
    done now in the drying process it's a
  • 00:35:50
    little different problem you don't need
  • 00:35:52
    pesticides you need to make sure you use
  • 00:35:54
    drying sheds rather than laying it out
  • 00:35:55
    on the ground where any pest can walk
  • 00:35:57
    through it and uh of course have
  • 00:35:59
    problems with that so uh I I have been
  • 00:36:02
    impressed with the improvements in the
  • 00:36:06
    Indonesian farmer operations where they
  • 00:36:08
    they harvest the leaves they they dry
  • 00:36:11
    them they dry them mostly appropriately
  • 00:36:14
    now they didn't four years ago I can
  • 00:36:16
    tell you that but they've made some
  • 00:36:17
    substantial progress and uh and I
  • 00:36:19
    certainly uh applaud them for that
  • 00:36:21
    effort and and they are all organic by
  • 00:36:23
    the way U there's no there are there are
  • 00:36:26
    issues where uh some Farmers add non-
  • 00:36:29
    Crum leafy material to make it look like
  • 00:36:32
    katum to bulk up the volume because
  • 00:36:34
    they're putting tapioca and stems and
  • 00:36:36
    that kind of thing that just happens and
  • 00:36:38
    and certainly these new regulations will
  • 00:36:40
    help to weed out those Bad actors as
  • 00:36:42
    they go forward but this is just the
  • 00:36:44
    nature of the Beast partly because of
  • 00:36:46
    the economics that are involved in it
  • 00:36:48
    and I think that uh uh that this is a
  • 00:36:50
    matter where uh right now the the
  • 00:36:53
    farmers I think are going to be
  • 00:36:55
    incentivized to be more careful and
  • 00:36:57
    certainly the regulations will screen
  • 00:36:59
    out any of these uh add-on organic
  • 00:37:01
    materials that are not Crum being added
  • 00:37:03
    to it Lloyd asked I was wondering when
  • 00:37:05
    China would get involved with this I had
  • 00:37:06
    heard China was getting involved uh
  • 00:37:08
    destroying the force in other countries
  • 00:37:10
    in Africa for Palm Plantation also and
  • 00:37:12
    in Indonesia surprised they don't have
  • 00:37:14
    their hands in the crate and processing
  • 00:37:16
    uh for for whatever reason China hasn't
  • 00:37:18
    shown an interest in it because the to
  • 00:37:20
    them the economic value is in palm oil
  • 00:37:23
    they're willing to encourage and help
  • 00:37:25
    facilitate the deforestation of the
  • 00:37:27
    Borneo rainforest uh in order to to
  • 00:37:30
    clear the land for palm oil plantations
  • 00:37:33
    and the way they de do deforestation is
  • 00:37:35
    they burned them burn the forest down
  • 00:37:37
    there was a significant deforestation
  • 00:37:40
    effort in
  • 00:37:41
    2016 that resulted in over 3,000 deaths
  • 00:37:44
    because of the pollution that got
  • 00:37:46
    generated because of the poor way that
  • 00:37:47
    they did it and and it it actually uh
  • 00:37:51
    then you know resulted in the US
  • 00:37:54
    government and oon Nations forming a
  • 00:37:56
    compact of about the environment that
  • 00:37:58
    would hopefully prevent that kind of
  • 00:38:00
    cata catastrophe from happening again
  • 00:38:03
    but the Chinese are interested in one
  • 00:38:04
    thing and that's the dollar and so uh
  • 00:38:06
    we'll have to watch and see how that
  • 00:38:08
    develops U along the way so we're uh
  • 00:38:11
    we're working hard on on developing that
  • 00:38:13
    so uh I'm going to stop on on Indonesia
  • 00:38:16
    uh for the moment I hope I've given you
  • 00:38:18
    a good background on it uh I again
  • 00:38:21
    extend the invitation on the Cobra issue
  • 00:38:23
    for a responsible discussion uh and it's
  • 00:38:26
    certainly not going to be with someone
  • 00:38:28
    who has demonstrably over time
  • 00:38:30
    consistently uh been been inconsistent
  • 00:38:33
    in the way that they approach it and has
  • 00:38:35
    been I arguably I think uh having a lack
  • 00:38:38
    of Integrity about what the uh the role
  • 00:38:41
    that that individual plays in the actual
  • 00:38:42
    creative Market Place through copero um
  • 00:38:46
    so uh let's move on to the uh to the
  • 00:38:49
    2025 plan for kcpa legislation uh and
  • 00:38:53
    let's start first with the the federal
  • 00:38:55
    legislation we are going to be
  • 00:38:57
    redrafting uh the federal kcpa to try to
  • 00:39:01
    accommodate some of the issues that the
  • 00:39:03
    Food and Drug Administration has
  • 00:39:04
    articulated over the past year and a
  • 00:39:06
    half and we're in the process of
  • 00:39:08
    developing that uh many of you may have
  • 00:39:10
    seen the report that representative
  • 00:39:12
    caner from Florida who is largely using
  • 00:39:16
    the uh Tampa Bay Times deadly dose
  • 00:39:18
    article in order to attack the katum
  • 00:39:21
    industry uh and and I'll tell you
  • 00:39:23
    something a very interesting anecdote
  • 00:39:25
    about that story uh many of you that
  • 00:39:27
    read that story may have noticed that
  • 00:39:29
    the Tampa Bay Times attributed to
  • 00:39:31
    medical examiners in the State of
  • 00:39:33
    Florida 46 deaths that were directly
  • 00:39:35
    result of katom only or largely because
  • 00:39:38
    of katom they they waffled a little bit
  • 00:39:40
    they they published the methodology that
  • 00:39:43
    they use describing how they collected
  • 00:39:45
    the data the autopsies and talks reports
  • 00:39:48
    on those 46 stats uh they had to
  • 00:39:50
    describe that because in Florida there's
  • 00:39:52
    no Central repository or collection area
  • 00:39:56
    for autopsy and talk screens on death so
  • 00:39:59
    they went to the 20 plus divisions of
  • 00:40:01
    medical examiners in uh Florida and they
  • 00:40:04
    described in some detail how they did
  • 00:40:06
    this so we replicated that there is an
  • 00:40:09
    outstanding member of the AKA staff who
  • 00:40:11
    spent several months boying the medical
  • 00:40:15
    examiner districts recreating and
  • 00:40:17
    specifically asking those medical
  • 00:40:19
    examiner districts to give us the same
  • 00:40:21
    death reports that have been given to
  • 00:40:23
    the Tampa Bay times at the end of that
  • 00:40:25
    process we have 51 reported deaths that
  • 00:40:29
    are we think are part of the universe of
  • 00:40:31
    the 46 that the Tampa Bay Times uh
  • 00:40:33
    reported on so I reached out to the
  • 00:40:36
    Tampa Bay Times reporters and I said to
  • 00:40:38
    them in order to make certain that we
  • 00:40:41
    are talking apples to apples we will
  • 00:40:43
    give you the names and the case numbers
  • 00:40:45
    of the deaths that we have and we would
  • 00:40:46
    like you to tell us which ones you
  • 00:40:48
    didn't include in your database they
  • 00:40:51
    rejected that they said oh we're not
  • 00:40:53
    going to co-author a journalistic
  • 00:40:54
    article with you well we're not
  • 00:40:56
    interested in doing journalism we're
  • 00:40:58
    interested in publishing a report about
  • 00:41:00
    the truth and they don't want to know
  • 00:41:02
    the truth uh and that's unfortunate
  • 00:41:04
    because that's where we are right now in
  • 00:41:07
    uh with the Tampa Bay Times so what
  • 00:41:09
    we're going to do is proceed with the
  • 00:41:11
    evaluation of all of the deaths uh but
  • 00:41:14
    here's the interesting top level report
  • 00:41:16
    and and outcome of that what we found is
  • 00:41:19
    that the claim made by the Tampa Bay
  • 00:41:21
    Times and upon which representative
  • 00:41:22
    caner relies is false those deaths are
  • 00:41:26
    not katum only in fact in some cases
  • 00:41:29
    that are reported as katum only we found
  • 00:41:31
    that the the request from the uh medical
  • 00:41:34
    examiner to the outside Laboratories
  • 00:41:36
    requested they only test for mogy and
  • 00:41:39
    guess what the only talk screen that
  • 00:41:41
    came back was for a level mogyy we also
  • 00:41:45
    found that the levels of mogyy
  • 00:41:47
    attributed to cause AUM death uh were
  • 00:41:49
    far under what even the I my personal
  • 00:41:52
    opinion the uh the nms labs uh which is
  • 00:41:56
    the leading forensic talk toxology lab
  • 00:41:57
    in the country I think they're pretty
  • 00:41:59
    anti- Crum and they came back and and
  • 00:42:02
    published a peer-reviewed article that
  • 00:42:04
    said that anything under a th000
  • 00:42:06
    nanograms per milliliter in a death
  • 00:42:08
    report is not a katum death and the
  • 00:42:10
    majority vast majority of the 46 deaths
  • 00:42:13
    were under that level there is no basis
  • 00:42:15
    for any medical examiner and certainly
  • 00:42:17
    not the Tampa Bay Times with their
  • 00:42:19
    yellow journalism to publish a report in
  • 00:42:21
    conclusion that is simply not based on
  • 00:42:23
    facts but yet representative caner
  • 00:42:25
    believes it because we would like to
  • 00:42:27
    believe that when a news Outlet
  • 00:42:29
    publishes a report that it's accurate
  • 00:42:31
    now the Tampa Bay times has an option
  • 00:42:33
    here they could say you know Maad you're
  • 00:42:35
    wrong and okay let's let's complete or
  • 00:42:39
    compare I should say the two cases the
  • 00:42:41
    case documents let's make sure we're
  • 00:42:43
    talking the same things and then let's
  • 00:42:45
    look at each one of them and let's have
  • 00:42:46
    an independent forensic toxicologist
  • 00:42:48
    examine them let's see if who's telling
  • 00:42:50
    the truth I made the offer for them to
  • 00:42:52
    get the blood samples of every one of
  • 00:42:55
    those deaths send them to a lab of their
  • 00:42:56
    choice and we would pay for it and they
  • 00:42:58
    said no this is not a journalistic
  • 00:43:01
    effort by them it is a hit job and I
  • 00:43:03
    would ask everyone to go back and look
  • 00:43:05
    closely at that article look at the
  • 00:43:08
    targeted companies that they went after
  • 00:43:10
    and ask yourself who isn't on this list
  • 00:43:12
    who isn't on the list that has class
  • 00:43:15
    action lawsuit against them who isn't on
  • 00:43:17
    this list that has uh you know product
  • 00:43:19
    liability cases against them I think
  • 00:43:21
    that's telling and you ought to take a
  • 00:43:23
    look at it because it's certainly
  • 00:43:25
    informative to me about who the the
  • 00:43:28
    instigators are and perhaps who is
  • 00:43:30
    behind that Tampa Bay Times article
  • 00:43:32
    because it certainly isn't good
  • 00:43:34
    journalism and we're going to continue
  • 00:43:35
    to pursue this because we want the truth
  • 00:43:38
    and the victims of bad information as
  • 00:43:41
    published in the Tampa Bay times are the
  • 00:43:43
    families because they have a right to
  • 00:43:45
    know what the truth is and and obviously
  • 00:43:48
    this is instigated by the trial
  • 00:43:49
    attorneys who want to keep feeding this
  • 00:43:51
    pipeline of disinformation about katom
  • 00:43:54
    and then the other victim of it is the
  • 00:43:55
    truth all of you may have heard I hope
  • 00:43:58
    you have that the AKA sued the medical
  • 00:44:01
    exam two medical examiners in Ohio for
  • 00:44:03
    their claims that katum caused the death
  • 00:44:06
    of a young man and when when we settled
  • 00:44:09
    that case it was settled on the basis
  • 00:44:11
    that these two medical examiners agreed
  • 00:44:14
    now they their off-ramp was they said
  • 00:44:15
    they reviewed new literature there is no
  • 00:44:17
    new literature but that was their way
  • 00:44:19
    they explained it so they then changed
  • 00:44:21
    the cause of death from mogy
  • 00:44:23
    intoxication to undetermined based on
  • 00:44:26
    the fact that new literature contradicts
  • 00:44:28
    the basis upon which they did it they
  • 00:44:30
    didn't share with anyone that when they
  • 00:44:32
    requested the talk screen from nms Labs
  • 00:44:36
    the only thing in that Ohio case that
  • 00:44:38
    they asked the nms labs to test for was
  • 00:44:40
    mogy and then they said it was a mogy
  • 00:44:43
    death this is what happens and the
  • 00:44:45
    National Institutes on drug abuse
  • 00:44:47
    scientist who appears in the one of the
  • 00:44:49
    recent documentaries mysteries of katom
  • 00:44:52
    and she's interviewed and she says this
  • 00:44:53
    is one of the problems that we have
  • 00:44:55
    where medical examiners don't have any
  • 00:44:56
    stand standardized postmortem uh
  • 00:44:58
    regulations about how you come to a
  • 00:45:00
    conclusion about a death Carl Williams
  • 00:45:03
    the former medical exam chief medical
  • 00:45:04
    examiner in alagan County Pennsylvania
  • 00:45:06
    recently retired castigated his fellow
  • 00:45:09
    medical examiners for drawing
  • 00:45:11
    conclusions that are not supported by
  • 00:45:12
    scientific evidence uh this is the
  • 00:45:15
    problem we have and there really needs
  • 00:45:16
    to be a corrective action taken by the
  • 00:45:19
    uh National Association of medical
  • 00:45:21
    examiners to put into place the kind of
  • 00:45:23
    standard postmortem methodology uh
  • 00:45:25
    testing that is required that was in
  • 00:45:28
    fact recommended by the Centers for
  • 00:45:30
    Disease Control when they evaluated
  • 00:45:32
    so-called reported deaths attributable
  • 00:45:34
    to Crum submitted by medical examiners
  • 00:45:37
    and coroners and they said there's no
  • 00:45:40
    there's no consistency on this and there
  • 00:45:42
    therefore there's no reliability that
  • 00:45:44
    can be relied upon and yet yet when you
  • 00:45:47
    look at the complaints filed by trial
  • 00:45:49
    attorneys across the country what do
  • 00:45:51
    they do they point to the CDC report
  • 00:45:53
    they they they point to medical
  • 00:45:55
    examiners drawing these conclusions they
  • 00:45:57
    point to the FDA saying that katum is
  • 00:45:59
    dangerous none of which is pass the
  • 00:46:02
    rigorous scientific test requirements
  • 00:46:04
    that you would think the good uh jurist
  • 00:46:06
    Prudence is based on so I think that
  • 00:46:09
    that uh is where we are so uh on the
  • 00:46:11
    federal side we're going to revamp it we
  • 00:46:13
    do have a a congressional briefing
  • 00:46:16
    that's coming up on on Friday from uh
  • 00:46:20
    9:00 am. to 11: a.m. eastern time it
  • 00:46:23
    will be live streamed on YouTube and you
  • 00:46:25
    watch your emails or social media
  • 00:46:27
    postings and you'll see how you can link
  • 00:46:28
    to watch this we will have uh Dr Chris
  • 00:46:32
    mcer from the University of Florida Dr
  • 00:46:35
    Kirsten Smith from John's Hopkins
  • 00:46:37
    University uh Dr Ed Boer from Ohio State
  • 00:46:40
    University and a visiting Professor from
  • 00:46:42
    Harvard Medical School and Dr Jack
  • 00:46:44
    henningfield from Johns Hopkins
  • 00:46:46
    University testifying and pre presenting
  • 00:46:48
    an update on katum science and Nida
  • 00:46:51
    director Dr Nora vco will be submitting
  • 00:46:53
    written testimony because she's
  • 00:46:55
    traveling on Friday and not available to
  • 00:46:57
    attend in person we will also have some
  • 00:47:00
    uh constituents katum consumers uh to
  • 00:47:04
    that are specifically focused on the uh
  • 00:47:07
    the sponsors the co-sponsors on the
  • 00:47:09
    house side we will have a a represent
  • 00:47:11
    Melody wolf from uh from Michigan uh and
  • 00:47:14
    she's represented uh on by Congressman
  • 00:47:17
    Jack Bergman and then Heidi sakur from
  • 00:47:19
    Wisconsin represented represented by uh
  • 00:47:22
    mark poan from Wisconsin uh and then
  • 00:47:25
    we'll have some veteran represent the
  • 00:47:27
    Forgotten not gone group The gries are
  • 00:47:29
    going to testify and Michael kayitz
  • 00:47:31
    who's from the veterans cannabis uh
  • 00:47:34
    medical cannabis group and we think that
  • 00:47:37
    this update is going to move the needle
  • 00:47:39
    in preparing uh staff members and
  • 00:47:41
    members of Congress for the revised
  • 00:47:44
    Federal kcpa in
  • 00:47:46
    2025 uh we also have a very robust plan
  • 00:47:50
    for uh federal or I'm sorry State
  • 00:47:53
    legislation uh that will be coming up in
  • 00:47:55
    2025 we still have a couple of states
  • 00:47:57
    that are outliers here at the end of the
  • 00:47:59
    legislation legislative sessions uh we
  • 00:48:01
    don't anticipate there'll be any great
  • 00:48:02
    movement there but it's something that
  • 00:48:04
    we hope for and but certainly sets the
  • 00:48:07
    stage for 2025 I'm guessing we're going
  • 00:48:09
    to be have nearly 30 states where we're
  • 00:48:11
    going to be actively lobbying now this
  • 00:48:14
    is a resource question and we have to
  • 00:48:16
    rely upon you and upon vendors who are
  • 00:48:19
    willing to contribute to our lobbying
  • 00:48:21
    efforts in order to make sure that katum
  • 00:48:23
    is legal in the states well regulated
  • 00:48:26
    properly labed and restricted from
  • 00:48:27
    minors so we may not be able to do
  • 00:48:30
    everything we would like to do there's
  • 00:48:31
    some additional issues that have Arisen
  • 00:48:34
    uh one of which a commitment by the
  • 00:48:35
    global katum Coalition that they're
  • 00:48:37
    going to go back to the 13 states that
  • 00:48:39
    have passed the katum consumer
  • 00:48:40
    protection act and they're going to
  • 00:48:42
    advocate in those States for what they
  • 00:48:44
    call the druglike regulatory scheme as
  • 00:48:46
    opposed to the self-regulatory scheme
  • 00:48:49
    which is what we advocate for and which
  • 00:48:50
    is in place at the federal and at State
  • 00:48:52
    levels for dietary supplements uh we
  • 00:48:55
    think that's a bad mistake but we may
  • 00:48:57
    have to start defending that and that of
  • 00:48:58
    course will drain resources away from
  • 00:49:01
    what we think are positive efforts going
  • 00:49:02
    forward we hope that the global Crum
  • 00:49:04
    Coalition will reconsider uh what
  • 00:49:06
    they're planning on doing because
  • 00:49:08
    obviously that's something that uh that
  • 00:49:10
    needs to be done uh but uh we'll we'll
  • 00:49:14
    send out a a description of all of those
  • 00:49:17
    states where we're going to be working
  • 00:49:18
    The Usual Suspects are there uh but
  • 00:49:20
    we're also going to be expanding our
  • 00:49:22
    reach and so we're going to be active in
  • 00:49:23
    this I can tell you that uh we're making
  • 00:49:26
    great progress in working with members
  • 00:49:29
    of the legislature and helping them
  • 00:49:31
    understand the actual story about catom
  • 00:49:34
    and and set aside the hyperbolic
  • 00:49:36
    complaints of the Food and Drug
  • 00:49:38
    Administration which are based on oh I
  • 00:49:40
    don't know let's quote doors youir
  • 00:49:41
    embarrassingly po evidence and data uh
  • 00:49:44
    the the U the allies of the FDA that
  • 00:49:47
    repeat what they say uh those are things
  • 00:49:50
    that I think we we we're convincing
  • 00:49:51
    legislators to see that right now there
  • 00:49:54
    are three choices you can ban Crum
  • 00:49:57
    and we see a new ban that was just
  • 00:49:58
    proposed in the state of Washington and
  • 00:50:00
    I spoke with the coordinator for the
  • 00:50:03
    Department of Pharmacy that will be will
  • 00:50:05
    be doing that today and he explained to
  • 00:50:07
    me the process and so we've got some
  • 00:50:08
    time to work on that he also
  • 00:50:10
    acknowledged that that complaint was
  • 00:50:11
    issued by an out of state party so it'll
  • 00:50:13
    be interesting to see and eventually
  • 00:50:15
    we'll know who that is but we're going
  • 00:50:16
    to mount an effort to inform that Board
  • 00:50:18
    of Pharmacy that the rulemaking is
  • 00:50:20
    inappropriate we've got a great Champion
  • 00:50:22
    identified in the state legislature
  • 00:50:24
    there uh there was a previous ban effort
  • 00:50:27
    in the state of Washington by Senator
  • 00:50:28
    Honeycut who has retired then but even
  • 00:50:30
    then when he proposed the ban uh he and
  • 00:50:33
    I had a great conversation and uh and he
  • 00:50:36
    acknowledged that he only did it because
  • 00:50:38
    someone had asked him to that was a
  • 00:50:39
    constituent and when he he heard the
  • 00:50:40
    science he said that he would not pursue
  • 00:50:42
    his bill and he kept his word uh and so
  • 00:50:45
    today we have the opportunity for a kcpa
  • 00:50:47
    in the state of Washington that will be
  • 00:50:49
    one of the states that we're going to be
  • 00:50:50
    working in uh and I'll give you another
  • 00:50:52
    example in the state of Montana Montana
  • 00:50:54
    meets every other year two years ago uh
  • 00:50:57
    at the last couple of days of the
  • 00:50:58
    session the Senate President Jason
  • 00:51:00
    Ellsworth proposed a ban on katom and it
  • 00:51:03
    it came out of the blue we had no idea
  • 00:51:05
    he was going to do it he told me that he
  • 00:51:06
    did it because of a request from a a
  • 00:51:10
    local uh drug group and that he thought
  • 00:51:12
    it was a good idea at the time and we
  • 00:51:14
    had to Rally quickly it was expensive to
  • 00:51:17
    do it but we managed over the weekend he
  • 00:51:19
    proposed this on a Thursday night
  • 00:51:21
    stucking in on a bill that was a
  • 00:51:22
    must-pass bill and uh it got to the
  • 00:51:24
    house on Monday and it was the feed 100
  • 00:51:27
    to nothing uh I had the great
  • 00:51:29
    opportunity to meet with uh president
  • 00:51:31
    Ellsworth uh at a National Conference of
  • 00:51:33
    state legislators leadership meeting uh
  • 00:51:36
    two weeks ago and he's committed to be
  • 00:51:37
    the sponsor for our kcpa uh so I think
  • 00:51:40
    that we're moving the needle in helping
  • 00:51:43
    people understand uh exactly where we
  • 00:51:46
    are on this issue so uh we're going to
  • 00:51:48
    be working hard on that one of the
  • 00:51:50
    issues that we are trying to contend
  • 00:51:53
    with right now is the threat that seven
  • 00:51:56
    hydroxy metrine products offer to the
  • 00:51:58
    katum industry and make no mistake uh a
  • 00:52:01
    seven hydroxy metrogate product is not a
  • 00:52:04
    Crum product it should not be labeled as
  • 00:52:07
    a katum product and I am working hard in
  • 00:52:10
    negotiations with representatives of the
  • 00:52:12
    70 manufacturers to convince them to
  • 00:52:15
    stand down from doing that um it it is
  • 00:52:18
    unfair to the katum community and it's
  • 00:52:21
    certainly they cannot justify from any
  • 00:52:23
    product formulation standard that a 70
  • 00:52:26
    product is is indeed a a Crum product
  • 00:52:28
    and unless that product has a majority
  • 00:52:31
    of the alkaloid content at metrogate as
  • 00:52:33
    opposed to the metabolite 7oh uh then I
  • 00:52:37
    think that that we're in real problems
  • 00:52:38
    there now here's the conundrum we're in
  • 00:52:41
    under federal law uh assuming you meet
  • 00:52:44
    the other criteria for a dietary
  • 00:52:45
    ingredient or dietary supplement uh you
  • 00:52:48
    have to have a good faith belief in the
  • 00:52:51
    science showing that your your product
  • 00:52:54
    is safe under the conditions of use
  • 00:52:57
    now there are many formulations of katom
  • 00:53:00
    products on the market today that are
  • 00:53:02
    only there because of that criteria uh
  • 00:53:05
    if we were to take a position that the
  • 00:53:07
    only products that should be allowed on
  • 00:53:09
    the marketplace today under the federal
  • 00:53:12
    Food Drug and cosmetic act are mogy
  • 00:53:14
    based products and extracts that are
  • 00:53:16
    properly extracted using FDA approved
  • 00:53:19
    solvents to do so as recognized in the
  • 00:53:22
    food drug and cosmetic act if we took
  • 00:53:23
    that position we would eliminate all of
  • 00:53:25
    a number of products including caum
  • 00:53:28
    products along the way because the only
  • 00:53:30
    way a caum product or a Cava caffeine
  • 00:53:33
    product or a uh any other mixture of
  • 00:53:36
    products that gets on the market is
  • 00:53:38
    based on that standard at the federal
  • 00:53:40
    level now my personal opinion is I would
  • 00:53:43
    like to eliminate them uh completely but
  • 00:53:45
    we can't do that without also putting
  • 00:53:47
    all these other products at risk so we
  • 00:53:50
    have to be consistent and I think that
  • 00:53:52
    uh that our goal here would be to uh
  • 00:53:56
    create create a legal environment at the
  • 00:53:58
    state level under our kcpa where uh
  • 00:54:02
    seven hydroxy mogen products cannot be
  • 00:54:04
    identified as Craton products and then
  • 00:54:06
    require them under a registration
  • 00:54:09
    procedure for their products to give
  • 00:54:10
    sworn statements that they have the
  • 00:54:13
    requisite required uh basis for the safe
  • 00:54:17
    use under the conditions of use which
  • 00:54:19
    means that they would have to limit the
  • 00:54:22
    amount of seven hydroxy mogen in any
  • 00:54:25
    product that they man manufactur and
  • 00:54:27
    then Market I think that's a step until
  • 00:54:29
    we can get a federal uh review of this
  • 00:54:32
    along the way and uh and so we're
  • 00:54:34
    working towards that difficult at this
  • 00:54:37
    point to see how that's going to play
  • 00:54:38
    out uh our position at the at the
  • 00:54:40
    American crom Association is clear
  • 00:54:43
    despite the nonsense you hear from some
  • 00:54:45
    of the detractors that were soft on 70
  • 00:54:48
    we follow the law we're consistent we're
  • 00:54:50
    consistent with those people that are
  • 00:54:52
    making cocum products that are our
  • 00:54:53
    biggest critic and I can tell you that
  • 00:54:56
    they're M misstating the position that
  • 00:54:58
    we have I've described that position
  • 00:55:00
    clearly it may not be one Everyone likes
  • 00:55:02
    because I I agree that 7oh is a
  • 00:55:05
    dangerous product that needs to be
  • 00:55:07
    regulated properly or or if they can't
  • 00:55:10
    justify it needs to be banned but the
  • 00:55:13
    same argument exists for those that are
  • 00:55:14
    manufacturing products that are mixtures
  • 00:55:17
    that uh require the same kind of data
  • 00:55:20
    and scientific data uh many of you may
  • 00:55:22
    have heard that the uh state of Utah has
  • 00:55:25
    delisted I think n cadum products uh I
  • 00:55:28
    can tell you that I had this discussion
  • 00:55:31
    about mixture of products with JW Ross
  • 00:55:33
    who is the chairman of the global katum
  • 00:55:35
    Coalition several months ago uh and
  • 00:55:38
    about this very issue about the the way
  • 00:55:41
    that we wanted to frame regulatory
  • 00:55:42
    language in a kcpa that would
  • 00:55:45
    accommodate a cative mixture given the
  • 00:55:48
    fact that there are critics out there
  • 00:55:49
    including scientists who say that a caum
  • 00:55:53
    mixture product is adulterated and the
  • 00:55:55
    respon that I got from Mr Ross was that
  • 00:55:58
    oh I have the signs I said well share it
  • 00:56:00
    with me so that we can start to educate
  • 00:56:03
    legislators about this so that they are
  • 00:56:05
    comfortable with this and he said flatly
  • 00:56:08
    no I won't give you that now when Utah
  • 00:56:11
    uh delist these Kratom combination
  • 00:56:14
    products the uh Matt low the executive
  • 00:56:17
    director of the global Crum Coalition
  • 00:56:19
    reached out to the American catom
  • 00:56:21
    Association and ask us to join them in
  • 00:56:23
    appealing the decision at the the Utah
  • 00:56:26
    Department of Agriculture and Foods how
  • 00:56:29
    can I do that I don't have the evidence
  • 00:56:31
    and and they hotly denied me the
  • 00:56:34
    opportunity to see that evidence and so
  • 00:56:36
    the AK is not in a position to do that
  • 00:56:39
    we we can't say we're we're following
  • 00:56:41
    the science which we do religiously and
  • 00:56:44
    then say but we don't care if there's no
  • 00:56:46
    scientific evidence now there is an
  • 00:56:48
    outlier here that's important and that
  • 00:56:50
    is that a manufacturer of a uh Cava Crum
  • 00:56:54
    mixture as an example and it's true for
  • 00:56:56
    Cava and caffeine and CA and CBD and
  • 00:56:58
    other things that uh you can have market
  • 00:57:01
    experience data so if you don't have a
  • 00:57:05
    peer- reviewed published article yet and
  • 00:57:07
    say this let's theoretically say the
  • 00:57:08
    science is ongoing uh if you can
  • 00:57:11
    demonstrate long-term uh Market presence
  • 00:57:14
    in the product formulation under the
  • 00:57:16
    labeling that you have on your product
  • 00:57:19
    and there's been no serious Adverse
  • 00:57:20
    Events reported then you can go on the
  • 00:57:23
    market uh and that if if the C grading
  • 00:57:26
    group can do that great and I and I will
  • 00:57:28
    join them on that level but if there's
  • 00:57:30
    science behind it then they need to
  • 00:57:32
    present that because we know that there
  • 00:57:34
    is a significant body of peer-reviewed
  • 00:57:36
    published literature on Cava itself
  • 00:57:39
    showing or representing that there is a
  • 00:57:41
    a safety risk associated with liver
  • 00:57:43
    toxicity and there is an equal number of
  • 00:57:45
    katum uh peer-reviewed scientific
  • 00:57:48
    articles which make the same allegation
  • 00:57:50
    and the combination of those two uh and
  • 00:57:53
    whether there's an attenuating effect of
  • 00:57:55
    those that creates a more dangerous
  • 00:57:57
    substance is the unknown factor here
  • 00:57:59
    that can only be answered with good
  • 00:58:00
    science and with Market data and so I
  • 00:58:02
    want to cooperate as best as the the AKA
  • 00:58:05
    wants to cooperate as do I uh as best we
  • 00:58:08
    can in order to promote these products
  • 00:58:10
    on the marketplace assuming that they
  • 00:58:11
    have this basis for Market entry so uh
  • 00:58:14
    little work to be done on this thing and
  • 00:58:15
    I know that there's a lot of contention
  • 00:58:17
    along the way uh and I know that people
  • 00:58:19
    are asking uh what is the relationship
  • 00:58:23
    between the global catom Coalition and
  • 00:58:25
    the American crat Association I'll
  • 00:58:27
    answer this clearly for
  • 00:58:28
    you the American katom Association uh
  • 00:58:32
    wanted to work on the California katum
  • 00:58:35
    bill we wanted it to be a
  • 00:58:36
    kcpa the difference between the global
  • 00:58:39
    katum Coalition and the American crom
  • 00:58:42
    Association is our philosophical
  • 00:58:44
    approach to what the regulatory model
  • 00:58:46
    should be and you don't have to rely on
  • 00:58:49
    my uh position on this the the global
  • 00:58:52
    crom Coalition published a graphic which
  • 00:58:55
    are criticized the American katum
  • 00:58:58
    Association for adopting a
  • 00:58:59
    self-regulatory scheme for dietary
  • 00:59:02
    supplements and for katum as opposed to
  • 00:59:05
    their more robust regulatory scheme
  • 00:59:08
    which is a drug scheme regulation
  • 00:59:10
    because that's the only difference that
  • 00:59:12
    there is at the federal level and at the
  • 00:59:14
    state level for regulating dietary
  • 00:59:15
    supplements what I mean by that is and
  • 00:59:18
    they they call it self-regulatory but
  • 00:59:20
    that's a little bit of a misnomer what
  • 00:59:21
    it means is that when you register a
  • 00:59:23
    product either at the federal level or
  • 00:59:25
    at the state level let's say
  • 00:59:26
    theoretically under the katum consumer
  • 00:59:28
    protection act you register your product
  • 00:59:31
    and you then submit a uh a a laboratory
  • 00:59:34
    certificate of analysis as the
  • 00:59:36
    manufacturer showing that your product
  • 00:59:38
    is compliant with the specific
  • 00:59:40
    Provisions that govern the quality and
  • 00:59:42
    the content of that Crum product then
  • 00:59:44
    your labeling obviously has to comply
  • 00:59:47
    with whatever the statute is and then
  • 00:59:49
    you have the age restriction so at the
  • 00:59:52
    federal level this is the way dietary
  • 00:59:53
    supplements are regulated the FDA does
  • 00:59:55
    not have an Army of people that go out
  • 00:59:57
    and test every dietary supplement they
  • 00:59:59
    don't go into stores and look to see
  • 01:00:01
    whether or not the label on the product
  • 01:00:03
    is done they rely upon as commissioner
  • 01:00:06
    caleff recently testified about a month
  • 01:00:08
    ago in Congress he said we're the police
  • 01:00:10
    we act on complaints and so if there is
  • 01:00:13
    a cluster of adverse event reports that
  • 01:00:15
    are given on a specific rate in product
  • 01:00:17
    then the FDA will act if they receive
  • 01:00:20
    complaints about mislabeling or uh or
  • 01:00:22
    illegal sales to miners they will react
  • 01:00:25
    that is what called a self-regulatory
  • 01:00:27
    model the other side of that is you have
  • 01:00:29
    a drug-like regulatory scheme which is
  • 01:00:31
    embodied in the uh the California bill
  • 01:00:35
    that was that was advocated for by the
  • 01:00:37
    global Crum Coalition uh that in my
  • 01:00:40
    opinion limited competition drove out of
  • 01:00:43
    the marketplace specific products but
  • 01:00:46
    then more importantly it imposed a
  • 01:00:48
    regulatory scheme that was so expensive
  • 01:00:50
    to implement it required the California
  • 01:00:53
    Department of Health to add hundreds of
  • 01:00:56
    new staffers they had to create new
  • 01:00:58
    laboratory spaces they had to hire
  • 01:01:00
    Consultants to help them understand what
  • 01:01:01
    the regulations had to be for katum
  • 01:01:03
    because none of them knew a Crum was or
  • 01:01:05
    is and so the cost of that program for
  • 01:01:09
    uh for implementation as was presented
  • 01:01:12
    by the California Senate Appropriations
  • 01:01:15
    Committee staff based on input from the
  • 01:01:18
    California Department of Health was
  • 01:01:20
    significant millions and millions of
  • 01:01:21
    dollars now they did not understand that
  • 01:01:25
    there are only about 50 creative
  • 01:01:27
    manufacturers who will meet the
  • 01:01:29
    standards set forth for quality products
  • 01:01:31
    that are properly labeled and age
  • 01:01:33
    restricted that's the number after four
  • 01:01:35
    years of experience in Utah that
  • 01:01:37
    register there are 50 so if you it's
  • 01:01:40
    simple math divide 50 and we hired an
  • 01:01:42
    economist to do it because I was
  • 01:01:43
    challenged by the global Crum coalition
  • 01:01:45
    to justify it we hired an economist and
  • 01:01:47
    The Economist did the math and said that
  • 01:01:50
    if you assume 50 uh registrants and
  • 01:01:53
    that's a tough lift by the way because
  • 01:01:56
    the cost would be
  • 01:01:58
    $111,000 per manufacturer in the first
  • 01:02:00
    year and $83,000 a year thereafter that
  • 01:02:03
    eliminates a significant number of
  • 01:02:05
    midsized and even some of the large crat
  • 01:02:07
    manufacturers and all the small ones
  • 01:02:09
    because they can't afford those kinds of
  • 01:02:10
    registration fees so if you have that
  • 01:02:13
    situation how many would actually
  • 01:02:15
    register it wouldn't be 50 because the
  • 01:02:17
    cost is too high compared to Utah where
  • 01:02:20
    the cost is
  • 01:02:21
    $260 let me repeat that $260 per
  • 01:02:24
    registration and as opposed to 113,000
  • 01:02:27
    in the first year and 83,000 every year
  • 01:02:30
    after that I can do that math they're
  • 01:02:32
    you're pricing out of the marketplace
  • 01:02:34
    except for a very few katum
  • 01:02:37
    manufacturers that's the math that's the
  • 01:02:40
    evidence and they the global Crum
  • 01:02:42
    Coalition can squawk all they want about
  • 01:02:44
    how they were misunderstood and all that
  • 01:02:47
    in fact they're saying that the the
  • 01:02:49
    reason that the uh that the California
  • 01:02:51
    Bill AB
  • 01:02:52
    2365 was held in suspense was because
  • 01:02:55
    because the the California Health
  • 01:02:57
    Department didn't really want to accept
  • 01:03:00
    that regulatory uh role that is not true
  • 01:03:03
    I spoke to the California Health
  • 01:03:05
    Department people they were perfectly
  • 01:03:06
    willing to do it they they just wanted
  • 01:03:08
    to have the money to do what the statute
  • 01:03:10
    required so now I I understand that the
  • 01:03:13
    global catom Coalition is going to have
  • 01:03:15
    a modified Bill where they're going to
  • 01:03:17
    have the Attorney General uh regulated
  • 01:03:20
    and then they're going to contract out
  • 01:03:22
    for the specific regulatory functions to
  • 01:03:25
    determine whether the the applicants
  • 01:03:27
    meet the specific requirements to
  • 01:03:29
    unburden the uh the California Health
  • 01:03:32
    Department from that obligation but the
  • 01:03:34
    cost is going to be the same maybe even
  • 01:03:36
    greater and you're still going to have
  • 01:03:37
    the same impact on the marketplace
  • 01:03:38
    you're still going to eliminate
  • 01:03:40
    competitive products to the the primary
  • 01:03:43
    product that gkc advocates for uh and
  • 01:03:45
    you're going to have a lack of
  • 01:03:47
    innovation you're going to eliminate
  • 01:03:48
    Marketplace you're going to deprive
  • 01:03:50
    consumers and you're going to drive
  • 01:03:51
    prices through the roof in California
  • 01:03:53
    that's not a consumer-friendly bill uh
  • 01:03:56
    so we are prepared and we're ready to do
  • 01:03:58
    it to have a katum consumer protection
  • 01:04:01
    act proposed in California that adopts
  • 01:04:03
    the responsible self-regulation model
  • 01:04:06
    that really does work and it's modeled
  • 01:04:08
    after the federal policy and after a
  • 01:04:10
    policy that's working in the uh in the
  • 01:04:13
    states and I have heard the global catom
  • 01:04:16
    coalition's argument and you've all
  • 01:04:18
    heard it too where where both Matthew
  • 01:04:21
    low and and JW Ross say that the states
  • 01:04:24
    are not affec itively regulating katum
  • 01:04:27
    well kind of ironic that the state of
  • 01:04:30
    Utah is regulating katum they don't like
  • 01:04:32
    it because it regulated their product
  • 01:04:35
    and they're squawking now but if the
  • 01:04:37
    states aren't able to regulate and
  • 01:04:39
    aren't regulating then why in the world
  • 01:04:41
    are they now fighting back about their
  • 01:04:43
    product being delisted in in Utah proves
  • 01:04:46
    that the system is working doesn't it
  • 01:04:48
    and it's not the only state where that
  • 01:04:49
    kind of thing is happening uh we think
  • 01:04:51
    it's an important step and the most
  • 01:04:54
    important thing about a a um a state
  • 01:04:56
    self-re regulation model as is embedded
  • 01:04:59
    in the crat and consumer protection act
  • 01:05:01
    and this was experienced in Utah is that
  • 01:05:04
    you saw a significant Improvement in the
  • 01:05:07
    kinds of products that are being
  • 01:05:08
    marketed in the in the state and you're
  • 01:05:12
    calling out the Bad actors and that's an
  • 01:05:14
    important part of the regulation when
  • 01:05:16
    it's implemented properly uh in the
  • 01:05:18
    State uh so I think that that's our
  • 01:05:21
    challenge going forward uh I tell you
  • 01:05:23
    one interesting story that uh that adds
  • 01:05:25
    to I think uh our optimism about next
  • 01:05:28
    year many of you know that the state of
  • 01:05:30
    Rhode Island the governor vetoed the
  • 01:05:32
    katum consumer protection act I had the
  • 01:05:34
    opportunity to meet with uh uh with the
  • 01:05:36
    governor of Rhode Island last Friday uh
  • 01:05:40
    he's a delightful individual uh he was
  • 01:05:42
    candid with me about the reasons that he
  • 01:05:44
    had actually vetoed the bill largely
  • 01:05:46
    upon recommendations of close friends of
  • 01:05:48
    him of his who are Physicians and he
  • 01:05:50
    said to me if you can get those
  • 01:05:53
    Physicians to accept what you're saying
  • 01:05:55
    he said I'll sign that bill in a hurry
  • 01:05:58
    and I said I'm never going to be able to
  • 01:05:59
    convince those Physicians because
  • 01:06:01
    they're following the misinformation of
  • 01:06:03
    the FDA they're doing it in good faith
  • 01:06:05
    but they actually trust the FDA when
  • 01:06:07
    that trust is unfounded particularly
  • 01:06:09
    when it results or is it relates to
  • 01:06:11
    catom but I told him that the American
  • 01:06:14
    Medical Association House of delegates
  • 01:06:17
    considered a resolution proposed by the
  • 01:06:19
    Mississippi uh Medical Association that
  • 01:06:22
    would banrate him and instead of
  • 01:06:24
    adopting that resolution the AMA adopted
  • 01:06:27
    a a different resolution which said
  • 01:06:29
    among other things catom should not be
  • 01:06:31
    criminalized and people should have
  • 01:06:32
    access to it and the governor said well
  • 01:06:34
    if that's true give that to me and that
  • 01:06:36
    changes the equation he invited us to
  • 01:06:38
    work with his policy staff uh to make
  • 01:06:41
    some appropriate changes in the bill and
  • 01:06:43
    he thought that we were in a better
  • 01:06:44
    position to see that bill sign next year
  • 01:06:46
    I think that's great because this is a
  • 01:06:48
    part of the process that we're working
  • 01:06:49
    on uh and I think uh our efforts are
  • 01:06:52
    targeted at building consumer
  • 01:06:56
    access to katum products that's what you
  • 01:06:58
    hear from the American katum Association
  • 01:07:00
    you're not hearing from us the criticism
  • 01:07:02
    about other products that are in the
  • 01:07:03
    marketplace other than 70 which we think
  • 01:07:05
    has to be regulated you're not hearing
  • 01:07:07
    us complaining about product
  • 01:07:09
    formulations I routinely get those
  • 01:07:10
    complaints from some of the detractors
  • 01:07:13
    here so I think that uh you people
  • 01:07:15
    should judge uh the activity and the
  • 01:07:18
    actions look at what's happening we're
  • 01:07:20
    going to Indonesia at the American Crum
  • 01:07:22
    Association bringing scientists to
  • 01:07:24
    improve the relationship between
  • 01:07:26
    Indonesian scientists and American
  • 01:07:29
    scientists we invited and hosted a
  • 01:07:31
    delegation of Indonesian scientists to
  • 01:07:32
    the National Institutes on drug abuse
  • 01:07:34
    Nora vco thanked us for doing that uh
  • 01:07:37
    we're we're helping with an Aion uh task
  • 01:07:40
    forceed on Crum that will bring together
  • 01:07:43
    all of those countries in Asia we're
  • 01:07:44
    working proactively we are going out to
  • 01:07:46
    the states and advocating for the
  • 01:07:48
    passage of the katum consumer protection
  • 01:07:50
    act we're working with allies in that
  • 01:07:53
    space and working and outreaching to you
  • 01:07:56
    now the one thing we don't have is an
  • 01:07:57
    unlimited amount of money uh and I know
  • 01:08:00
    the global creative Coalition does and
  • 01:08:02
    uh and that's that's a hard thing to
  • 01:08:04
    compete against but I hope you'll look
  • 01:08:06
    at what the success has been what our
  • 01:08:09
    performance has been and where our
  • 01:08:11
    activities are focused because we're
  • 01:08:13
    about consumers and and we're going to
  • 01:08:15
    continue to be that we're going to we're
  • 01:08:17
    going to honor the trust that you put
  • 01:08:18
    into us and we're going to continue to
  • 01:08:20
    work hard on that so uh I'll stop there
  • 01:08:22
    I'll go back to the questions because I
  • 01:08:24
    know that there are here uh John asked
  • 01:08:27
    about New Jersey and uh and he says his
  • 01:08:30
    sister relies on for or pain uh
  • 01:08:33
    we're making progress in New Jersey it
  • 01:08:35
    is not easy uh because you have a bill
  • 01:08:39
    that was put up by a member of the
  • 01:08:41
    legislature to band Crum called CJ's law
  • 01:08:44
    and there's a lot there that this
  • 01:08:45
    representative has not known but he
  • 01:08:47
    scheduled a meeting with me in a month
  • 01:08:49
    and we're looking forward to that I
  • 01:08:51
    think we're going to be uh better along
  • 01:08:52
    the way um
  • 01:08:56
    let's see Jeff is back at back in
  • 01:08:58
    Indonesia I agree that the farmers
  • 01:09:00
    should get at least some of the profit
  • 01:09:02
    I've already explained I think
  • 01:09:03
    appropriately what we need to do there
  • 01:09:05
    um Anonymous attendee what reasons
  • 01:09:07
    should I keep donating to the AKA and
  • 01:09:10
    not gkc who seem more effective at
  • 01:09:12
    engaging lawmakers that are staunchly
  • 01:09:13
    against 70 products which are clear
  • 01:09:15
    money
  • 01:09:17
    grab it's not
  • 01:09:19
    true uh you buy in to the narrative that
  • 01:09:23
    the global crom coalition is selling
  • 01:09:26
    that the uh the American katom
  • 01:09:28
    Association is somehow soft on 7oh
  • 01:09:30
    products and you are buying a lie uh and
  • 01:09:33
    I can tell you that I'm not going to
  • 01:09:35
    tell you that you shouldn't contribute
  • 01:09:36
    to the global katom Coalition but I can
  • 01:09:38
    tell you they don't need your money
  • 01:09:39
    because they are funded almost entirely
  • 01:09:42
    uh by the uh the the botanic tonics
  • 01:09:45
    company uh but I can tell you the
  • 01:09:47
    American catom Association has a diverse
  • 01:09:50
    group of donors we have industry people
  • 01:09:52
    that support us many many many
  • 01:09:55
    uh the global cring Coalition has been
  • 01:09:57
    in business for a year and a half or two
  • 01:09:59
    years and they have few uh supporters on
  • 01:10:02
    that level uh they they spread their
  • 01:10:04
    money out widely I get that uh we we
  • 01:10:07
    honor our uh donors by fighting hard for
  • 01:10:12
    you and we're going to continue to do
  • 01:10:14
    that and we hope you we honor that and
  • 01:10:16
    we Merit your trust and um the the
  • 01:10:19
    global crme Coalition is what it is and
  • 01:10:21
    they're going to continue to fight the
  • 01:10:23
    battles I can tell you that if you adopt
  • 01:10:26
    the regulatory model that the global
  • 01:10:27
    Crum Coalition is advocating for you
  • 01:10:30
    will have fewer products on the market
  • 01:10:32
    higher prices less innovation in the
  • 01:10:34
    marketplace and you will not have the
  • 01:10:36
    kind array of products that are
  • 01:10:38
    currently available today and I'm
  • 01:10:40
    talking about safely manufactured and
  • 01:10:43
    produced extract products which are
  • 01:10:45
    recognized as being safe as all extract
  • 01:10:48
    dietary supplement products are if the
  • 01:10:50
    conditions of the manufacturer of those
  • 01:10:52
    products are met and that's the only way
  • 01:10:55
    that operate because we put those uh
  • 01:10:57
    those restrictions on how you can
  • 01:10:59
    extract uh Crum uh raw materials into
  • 01:11:02
    extract products the argument for
  • 01:11:05
    extracts by those who use them and
  • 01:11:07
    they're popular is because they clear
  • 01:11:10
    out all the microbial load there is a
  • 01:11:11
    standardized dose there's no question
  • 01:11:13
    about what levels of mogy that you're
  • 01:11:15
    getting and that they uh depending on
  • 01:11:18
    some of the products they're more
  • 01:11:19
    bioavailable I respect consumers in this
  • 01:11:21
    area I I see both sides of it and I'm
  • 01:11:24
    not going to down and say we want to
  • 01:11:26
    exclude one segment of the marketplace
  • 01:11:28
    just because it's a competitor to
  • 01:11:30
    another company however big that company
  • 01:11:32
    may be or how a big a footprint they
  • 01:11:34
    have we're just not going to do that um
  • 01:11:37
    along the way uh can you weigh in on the
  • 01:11:39
    Bloomberg article that just came out uh
  • 01:11:42
    stating the FDA study finds capsule safe
  • 01:11:45
    well the the Bloomberg article wasn't
  • 01:11:47
    completely accurate what that study did
  • 01:11:48
    the FDA dose finding study uh was
  • 01:11:51
    conducted with 40 human subjects
  • 01:11:53
    designed to see whether or not there the
  • 01:11:55
    Crum could be safely consumed by humans
  • 01:11:57
    so that the FDA could then conduct a
  • 01:11:59
    human abuse potential study make no
  • 01:12:02
    mistake the FDA did not intend to ever
  • 01:12:03
    do a human abuse potential study because
  • 01:12:05
    they believed and and the clinicians
  • 01:12:08
    involved in this study reported to me
  • 01:12:10
    that the FDA uh people that designed the
  • 01:12:12
    study said we're not going to get to uh
  • 01:12:15
    the levels that uh that would
  • 01:12:17
    demonstrate uh the safety to in order to
  • 01:12:19
    Dem to go to a human abuse potential
  • 01:12:21
    study you're going to see serious
  • 01:12:23
    Adverse Events at six day grams they
  • 01:12:25
    started 1 G they kept escalating it they
  • 01:12:27
    got to uh the 6 to 8 G 8 to 10 G they
  • 01:12:31
    got to 12 G uh in a consumed in a 5
  • 01:12:35
    minute period which means 24 large
  • 01:12:37
    capsules of crat material and they
  • 01:12:40
    observed uh nausea in some of the human
  • 01:12:43
    subjects both in the the placebo group
  • 01:12:46
    and the Crum group meaning that when you
  • 01:12:49
    consume that amount of material plant
  • 01:12:51
    material in a 5-minute period it's going
  • 01:12:53
    to make you nauseous that all it did and
  • 01:12:55
    the FDA then decided their their
  • 01:12:57
    scientific team decided to stop the
  • 01:13:00
    study because and this is important no
  • 01:13:03
    serious side events were observed I made
  • 01:13:06
    this very point to a Bloomberg reporter
  • 01:13:08
    today in an interview uh that article
  • 01:13:10
    was a little bit tainted because they
  • 01:13:12
    said oh it didn't include the uh the
  • 01:13:15
    liquid products and that kind of thing
  • 01:13:17
    the bias is clear uh and I can tell you
  • 01:13:19
    that uh that the truth is going to
  • 01:13:21
    emerge here because the FDA study is now
  • 01:13:25
    getting they promised they're going to
  • 01:13:27
    publish it we obviously have the data
  • 01:13:28
    that was presented at a recent
  • 01:13:30
    scientific conference I'm looking
  • 01:13:31
    forward to that publication it'll be
  • 01:13:33
    telling if they don't publish it because
  • 01:13:34
    it might tell you a lot about what's
  • 01:13:35
    going on um Lindsay asked why is the FDA
  • 01:13:38
    trying to get Crum off the shelves they
  • 01:13:40
    hate all dietary supplements they hate
  • 01:13:41
    Botanical products they don't want them
  • 01:13:43
    on the marketplace they want them to be
  • 01:13:45
    new drugs and it's not just katom it's
  • 01:13:47
    many things they they abuse their powers
  • 01:13:50
    with catom there is one individual in
  • 01:13:52
    the high levels of the sea Suite of the
  • 01:13:54
    commission
  • 01:13:55
    who is antium and until he dies retires
  • 01:13:59
    or gets hired and goes off somewhere uh
  • 01:14:02
    we're stuck with him and so we're going
  • 01:14:04
    to have to fight this battle at the
  • 01:14:05
    legislative level hopefully commissioner
  • 01:14:08
    Cale will see the light I've requested
  • 01:14:10
    through a letter to him last week that
  • 01:14:12
    he convene a stakeholders meeting so
  • 01:14:14
    that we can have a public examination of
  • 01:14:17
    what the true science on katum is and
  • 01:14:18
    what the bright public policy ought to
  • 01:14:20
    be we'll see if he he bites on that um
  • 01:14:23
    Lindsay ask is the seven hydroxy Ming
  • 01:14:25
    more psychoactive part of the Crum Leaf
  • 01:14:27
    first off seven seven hydroxy metrine
  • 01:14:30
    does have a psychoactive effect on the
  • 01:14:32
    MU opioid receptors in fact it binds
  • 01:14:35
    completely and tightly to The muop
  • 01:14:37
    receptors where Crum mogy does not mogy
  • 01:14:40
    has what's called a partial Agonist
  • 01:14:42
    effect which means it goes to that
  • 01:14:44
    sector of The muop receptors in the
  • 01:14:46
    brain that controls pain so it gives the
  • 01:14:49
    analgesic effect and then has an anergic
  • 01:14:52
    aner I can't even say it anergic effects
  • 01:14:55
    uh that are helpful for people in terms
  • 01:14:57
    of mood elevation and that kind of thing
  • 01:14:59
    it doesn't give you the euphoric high
  • 01:15:01
    and it doesn't go to your respiratory
  • 01:15:02
    system where 7oh it appears based on
  • 01:15:05
    scientific evidence likely does and so
  • 01:15:08
    it needs to be examined and treated
  • 01:15:09
    differently uh it is a metabolite not a
  • 01:15:12
    constituent alkaloid of the of the katum
  • 01:15:15
    plant which is why I think the important
  • 01:15:17
    legal distinction is that seven hydroxy
  • 01:15:20
    hydroxy seven hydroxy mogen products are
  • 01:15:22
    not Crum and that's what we want to
  • 01:15:25
    accomplish in some of this um Lloyd ask
  • 01:15:28
    is there any legislations coming up in
  • 01:15:29
    South Dakota you know of uh it was sheld
  • 01:15:32
    a couple of years ago I've been assured
  • 01:15:34
    by legislators there there's not going
  • 01:15:35
    to be any activity on katum uh it's not
  • 01:15:38
    on our priority list in terms of funding
  • 01:15:41
    priorities I can tell you though that
  • 01:15:43
    there have been states where we have not
  • 01:15:45
    had to hire a single lobbyist uh and yet
  • 01:15:48
    we've seen activity positive activity
  • 01:15:50
    including passage of the kcpa so uh if
  • 01:15:54
    you are a a
  • 01:15:55
    uh Advocate and you want to be our
  • 01:15:57
    citizen lobbyist then contact us and
  • 01:15:59
    we'll talk about that I think it's uh uh
  • 01:16:02
    it's important Brian says isn't it true
  • 01:16:04
    that the Hors is out of the barn on 708
  • 01:16:07
    products and consumers are demanding
  • 01:16:08
    access 70 products that now have a
  • 01:16:10
    fouryear track record of seven 70 safety
  • 01:16:14
    yes uh but that doesn't uh negate the
  • 01:16:18
    responsibility of the 7oh manufacturers
  • 01:16:22
    to meet the conditions of use which
  • 01:16:24
    means labeling
  • 01:16:25
    and demonstrate their safety there are
  • 01:16:27
    70 products that are on the marketplace
  • 01:16:29
    today that are Vape products now there's
  • 01:16:32
    something wrong with that there are 70
  • 01:16:33
    products that are outlandishly marketed
  • 01:16:36
    appealing to children and so know 70 can
  • 01:16:39
    make their argument but they've got to
  • 01:16:40
    be responsible too and if they want to
  • 01:16:42
    be on the marketplace prove that they're
  • 01:16:44
    uh by the science that they should be
  • 01:16:46
    there and by the standards under the law
  • 01:16:48
    and self-regulate let's see a seven
  • 01:16:50
    hydroxy bill because we're going to
  • 01:16:52
    include it in our in our kcpa in 20 2
  • 01:16:56
    and I would love to have a section there
  • 01:16:58
    that requires 70 to responsibly regulate
  • 01:17:01
    their products as 70 products not
  • 01:17:03
    creatum and they have to meet the
  • 01:17:04
    similar standards that we require of
  • 01:17:06
    creatum
  • 01:17:07
    Manufacturers U I think I've answered
  • 01:17:10
    the Washington State if I didn't and I
  • 01:17:12
    apologize if I didn't it's the start of
  • 01:17:14
    a process I've engaged with their people
  • 01:17:16
    this morning and uh we're going to be on
  • 01:17:18
    top of this it is a very
  • 01:17:20
    preliminary uh operation right now
  • 01:17:23
    recommended and a petition
  • 01:17:25
    which under the law they can do from an
  • 01:17:26
    out ofate person and we have faced this
  • 01:17:29
    in Virginia in Ohio in Nevada many
  • 01:17:32
    states and we've beaten it and we're
  • 01:17:34
    going to continue we're going to be
  • 01:17:35
    there guns blazing on this issue as well
  • 01:17:40
    um the Washington Champion I'm going to
  • 01:17:42
    defer on telling uh uh who that
  • 01:17:45
    individual is because I don't have his
  • 01:17:46
    authorization to say you asked me if I
  • 01:17:49
    Marvin asked if I've spoken with
  • 01:17:50
    Ferguson I have not loved to have a
  • 01:17:52
    contact there so if Marvin you'll
  • 01:17:54
    contact me send me email that'd be great
  • 01:17:55
    it's mhad american.org uh Peter asked I
  • 01:17:59
    live in an area where the kcp has begun
  • 01:18:01
    uh so on some level the regulation sh up
  • 01:18:03
    but I'm still in fear of someone passing
  • 01:18:05
    away uh from katum in their system and
  • 01:18:07
    my shop getting hit with an eight figure
  • 01:18:09
    wrongful death lawsuit because of the
  • 01:18:10
    climate of the issue how is a shop owner
  • 01:18:13
    can I protect myself from lawsuits
  • 01:18:14
    associated with the sale catom with
  • 01:18:16
    customers having to sign a waiver be a
  • 01:18:18
    step too far or a good way to protect
  • 01:18:19
    myself and employees you need to talk to
  • 01:18:21
    an attorney about some of this I can
  • 01:18:24
    tell you that the defense uh on on a
  • 01:18:27
    Crum uh product liabilities lawsuit is
  • 01:18:30
    make sure you're selling Crum products
  • 01:18:31
    that are properly labeled make sure that
  • 01:18:33
    the product liability that's associated
  • 01:18:35
    with that uh are that you're protected
  • 01:18:38
    by making sure that those products are
  • 01:18:40
    defensible now that doesn't protect you
  • 01:18:43
    100% from product liability suit but you
  • 01:18:45
    your defenses have to be a good faith
  • 01:18:47
    good notice uh and that you're following
  • 01:18:50
    the law and I think that you'll be there
  • 01:18:52
    but certainly talk to an attorney about
  • 01:18:55
    uh how you how you might be able to do
  • 01:18:56
    it we're going to hold a uh a panel
  • 01:18:59
    discussion at an upcoming Leadership
  • 01:19:02
    Summit in November in Providence Rhode
  • 01:19:04
    Island where we're going to talk about
  • 01:19:06
    how you can shrink the Target on for a
  • 01:19:09
    product liability suit for vendors and I
  • 01:19:11
    think we should address this for uh
  • 01:19:13
    Distributors and retail outlets as well
  • 01:19:15
    as well so uh hopefully we can get that
  • 01:19:17
    uh seminar and maybe be able to
  • 01:19:18
    circulate it after the uh uh the the
  • 01:19:21
    Leadership Summit is uh is completed uh
  • 01:19:25
    Nicholas asked the katum legalization in
  • 01:19:27
    bill in Wisconsin appears had enough
  • 01:19:28
    support in assembly this last year but
  • 01:19:30
    it wasn't brought to the floor to vote
  • 01:19:32
    any idea if they're going to bring it
  • 01:19:33
    forward next year do you know why they
  • 01:19:35
    never brought it forward this year I do
  • 01:19:37
    uh the uh the Speaker of the House Robin
  • 01:19:40
    Voss expressed his strong support for
  • 01:19:44
    the katum consumer protection act uh he
  • 01:19:46
    insisted that the Controlled Substances
  • 01:19:49
    board provide a report to the
  • 01:19:51
    legislature about whether or not katum
  • 01:19:53
    meets the eight factors which mirror the
  • 01:19:55
    federal statute and the controlled sub
  • 01:19:57
    board did that and they said it doesn't
  • 01:20:00
    they said but we don't think it should
  • 01:20:01
    be unregulated meaning that they needs
  • 01:20:03
    regulation and so the uh speaker was
  • 01:20:05
    ready to proceed and the Democrats came
  • 01:20:07
    to the floor and said knowing how
  • 01:20:08
    important it was to speaker Voss and
  • 01:20:11
    they said okay if we're going to do this
  • 01:20:12
    we want you to give us some election
  • 01:20:13
    reform concessions and the horse trading
  • 01:20:16
    failed at that level we're hopeful we're
  • 01:20:18
    back at it uh here in uh January and um
  • 01:20:22
    and that's the uh the bottom line on it
  • 01:20:25
    I'll keep you posted as we go forward in
  • 01:20:26
    Wisconsin uh they're good people in
  • 01:20:29
    Wisconsin and and the legislature
  • 01:20:31
    probably would have passed it hard to
  • 01:20:33
    tell until you get a final vote but uh
  • 01:20:35
    we were optimistic that was going to
  • 01:20:37
    happen except for the the battle that
  • 01:20:39
    went forth on a political issue on
  • 01:20:41
    Election reform which Didn't Do It
  • 01:20:44
    um Jordan gives an endorsement for the
  • 01:20:47
    AKA thank you um uh and I think you make
  • 01:20:51
    the right Point there's no point to
  • 01:20:52
    picking fights among a group of people
  • 01:20:54
    that should be aligned in the same thing
  • 01:20:57
    and I can tell you the AKA ain't picked
  • 01:20:58
    no fights uh we have been attacked
  • 01:21:01
    vilified because of our so-called
  • 01:21:03
    failures uh you can judge on what we've
  • 01:21:06
    done we've worked hard to do it we have
  • 01:21:07
    a team of people that are terrific and
  • 01:21:10
    we we try to work with Advocates as best
  • 01:21:12
    we can in order to make this happen um
  • 01:21:15
    any news about Arkansas Marshall Price's
  • 01:21:17
    lawsuit was filed that's great news uh
  • 01:21:20
    Arkansas uh is is convening a hearing uh
  • 01:21:24
    in interim Committee hearing before the
  • 01:21:26
    uh interim health committee and uh that
  • 01:21:29
    will take place in in early October and
  • 01:21:33
    uh we're going to have a team of
  • 01:21:35
    Specialists this is going to be a
  • 01:21:36
    presentation on the science uh and the
  • 01:21:39
    policy issues it's not going to be an
  • 01:21:41
    opportunity for a lot of consumer input
  • 01:21:43
    but we'll announce that and let you have
  • 01:21:45
    the opportunity to obviously observe and
  • 01:21:47
    uh and and and participate if it's
  • 01:21:50
    appropriate they're not giving us a lot
  • 01:21:52
    of time but this is a an informational
  • 01:21:55
    hearing that will then set the stage for
  • 01:21:56
    the filing of the kcpa uh in no in
  • 01:22:00
    January in
  • 01:22:02
    Arkansas in Illinois Michael thank you
  • 01:22:04
    for the question uh just had a meeting
  • 01:22:07
    with the Illinois Department of Health
  • 01:22:09
    it was a great meeting uh they candidly
  • 01:22:11
    said that they're not sure they're the
  • 01:22:13
    right regulatory body and they asked us
  • 01:22:15
    to look at the Department of Revenue and
  • 01:22:17
    the Department of Agriculture Because
  • 01:22:19
    unless the product is contaminated with
  • 01:22:21
    salmoni coli or something like that they
  • 01:22:24
    don't have any Authority at the
  • 01:22:25
    Department of Health to remove a product
  • 01:22:26
    from commercial shelves so we're going
  • 01:22:29
    to take that to heart and we've uh we're
  • 01:22:32
    going to uh talk with those other
  • 01:22:34
    agencies about taking it on but I can
  • 01:22:36
    tell you that that uh assistant majority
  • 01:22:39
    floor leader Evans is a champion he was
  • 01:22:42
    on the call with us and he talked about
  • 01:22:44
    how important it was to protect his cons
  • 01:22:46
    his constituents and he's a marvelous
  • 01:22:49
    leader so we're grateful uh for him um
  • 01:22:54
    the Peter ask is there been any
  • 01:22:56
    meaningful updates on the hap study as
  • 01:22:58
    it gone or as it begun so they they the
  • 01:23:01
    FDA did uh theoretically uh bid out the
  • 01:23:05
    human abuse potential study and I think
  • 01:23:06
    they have that done now they're in the
  • 01:23:08
    process of determining what the protocol
  • 01:23:10
    for the study is uh they have to be
  • 01:23:12
    careful because they know we're watching
  • 01:23:15
    uh and if they come out with a protocol
  • 01:23:16
    that tilts that puts their thumb on the
  • 01:23:18
    scale or their foot on the scale uh on
  • 01:23:21
    this then we're going to be careful we
  • 01:23:22
    have lots of scientists who know this
  • 01:23:24
    issue
  • 01:23:25
    uh so I think they're being careful and
  • 01:23:27
    uh it has not yet begun but we'll know
  • 01:23:30
    when it does and we'll keep you updated
  • 01:23:32
    on it we're going to watch that one
  • 01:23:33
    closely because it's not that we
  • 01:23:36
    distrust the FDA uh but President Reagan
  • 01:23:39
    said it right we trust but verify and
  • 01:23:41
    we're going to make sure that we verify
  • 01:23:43
    as best we can everything that we can do
  • 01:23:45
    to make sure that they're playing fair
  • 01:23:47
    and balls and Strikes so uh we'll
  • 01:23:49
    continue to work on that uh doing our
  • 01:23:52
    best to to take care of that
  • 01:23:55
    so uh I think that's the end of the uh
  • 01:23:58
    um the the questions uh I'll give you
  • 01:24:02
    one last chance maybe you got a burning
  • 01:24:03
    question you can answer it and while
  • 01:24:05
    you're thinking about it uh let me just
  • 01:24:07
    say something and I know I know it's
  • 01:24:10
    it's difficult when it's like any family
  • 01:24:12
    when you have a a fight going on among
  • 01:24:15
    family members there's tension and and I
  • 01:24:18
    hate this tension that exists between
  • 01:24:20
    the global katum Coalition and the
  • 01:24:22
    American katum Coalition because I
  • 01:24:23
    envisioned a Cooperative effort together
  • 01:24:27
    uh and I can tell you unequivocally we
  • 01:24:30
    have not picked this fight uh but we're
  • 01:24:32
    not going to knuckle under to demands
  • 01:24:34
    that are made by groups that by any
  • 01:24:36
    group including the global credum
  • 01:24:37
    Coalition where they're inconsistent
  • 01:24:39
    with our mission and that they favor one
  • 01:24:42
    product over another or they favor a a
  • 01:24:45
    non-competitive Marketplace uh that is
  • 01:24:48
    unjustified based on the science and the
  • 01:24:51
    conditions in the marketplace because my
  • 01:24:53
    belief and it's one that the board of
  • 01:24:55
    the American creatum Association
  • 01:24:56
    heartily endorses is that we should bend
  • 01:24:59
    over backwards to give consumers as many
  • 01:25:02
    choices as they can of safe properly
  • 01:25:05
    regulated properly labeled products so
  • 01:25:07
    that they can decide and do not let some
  • 01:25:11
    bureaucrat decide and for goodness sake
  • 01:25:13
    don't let some competitor in the
  • 01:25:14
    marketplace who has a dominant marketing
  • 01:25:16
    position and a lot of money to throw
  • 01:25:18
    around and a personal philosophy about
  • 01:25:20
    what the product should look like
  • 01:25:21
    determine what you get to choose in
  • 01:25:23
    terms of product that you want to
  • 01:25:25
    purchase and use for your health and
  • 01:25:26
    well-being I want to bend an air on the
  • 01:25:29
    side of of giving you that opportunity
  • 01:25:31
    as long as they meet those conditions
  • 01:25:33
    that I outlined uh so I think that uh
  • 01:25:36
    that's our goal and and like any family
  • 01:25:38
    we can make up I hope we can uh but it's
  • 01:25:41
    going to be a Fair makeup not just on
  • 01:25:43
    conditions uh that are simply designed
  • 01:25:46
    to get a settlement as opposed to coming
  • 01:25:48
    to a fair conclusion particularly one
  • 01:25:50
    that protects consumers and so uh I
  • 01:25:53
    pledge to you and I've been instructed
  • 01:25:56
    by the board to make sure that we
  • 01:25:57
    deliver on this promise that what we do
  • 01:26:00
    in good faith is going to be to protect
  • 01:26:03
    the marketplace for consumers not for
  • 01:26:06
    individual companies that compete uh we
  • 01:26:08
    look forward to that there are companies
  • 01:26:10
    in the marketplace today that I think
  • 01:26:14
    are great companies they're not members
  • 01:26:16
    of the GMP program uh in uh in our the
  • 01:26:20
    AK program we wish they would be we wish
  • 01:26:23
    everyone would jump on that because we
  • 01:26:24
    think that's a good consumer safety
  • 01:26:25
    mechanism uh they make good products uh
  • 01:26:28
    they don't necessarily agree with our
  • 01:26:30
    regulatory philosophy but they're still
  • 01:26:31
    good companies and they're good people
  • 01:26:33
    along the way and some of them are on
  • 01:26:35
    this call tonight and I hope they
  • 01:26:36
    understand that my commitment and the
  • 01:26:39
    aka's commitment is to protect that
  • 01:26:41
    Marketplace for you as well uh we
  • 01:26:43
    encourage voluntary compliance with the
  • 01:26:45
    GMP program but we don't require it as a
  • 01:26:47
    basis for being uh a an
  • 01:26:50
    AKA company we're not going to vilify
  • 01:26:53
    you we're not going to Target you uh we
  • 01:26:55
    want this to be a Marketplace that
  • 01:26:57
    benefits consumers across the board so
  • 01:27:00
    uh I think that's uh the best way I can
  • 01:27:02
    say it uh I'll end with uh just the the
  • 01:27:07
    rec recapitulation about things that you
  • 01:27:09
    should be looking at uh we're going to
  • 01:27:11
    keep you updated on the Indonesian
  • 01:27:12
    situation it's complicated and there are
  • 01:27:15
    things that we're working on right now
  • 01:27:17
    uh we have a meeting with a bunch of
  • 01:27:18
    vendors tomorrow prior to the
  • 01:27:20
    Congressional briefing on Saturday where
  • 01:27:22
    we're going to be talking about this and
  • 01:27:23
    developing Strate IES uh we'll do the
  • 01:27:25
    best we can to keep up with that uh
  • 01:27:27
    we'll have the Congressional briefing
  • 01:27:29
    not only live streamed uh on Friday but
  • 01:27:32
    also will record it so that you can
  • 01:27:34
    watch it later I think that'll be
  • 01:27:36
    fascinating uh we're going to update you
  • 01:27:39
    on new regulatory challenges on the fy2
  • 01:27:43
    not FY it's the
  • 01:27:44
    2025 uh katum consumer protection act
  • 01:27:47
    program uh we'll have another webinar
  • 01:27:49
    that goes into more detail in the states
  • 01:27:50
    and keep you updated uh we'll let you
  • 01:27:52
    know about the upcoming events that are
  • 01:27:54
    coming up with the hearings in various
  • 01:27:56
    States and we'll make sure you're
  • 01:27:58
    updated on how we do in Washington state
  • 01:28:00
    as we proceed with informing them about
  • 01:28:04
    these issues and then the last thing
  • 01:28:05
    I'll tell you and this is the hardest
  • 01:28:07
    part and it kills me in many ways is
  • 01:28:10
    that we see the uh the disinformation
  • 01:28:13
    campaign being effectively disseminated
  • 01:28:16
    by the FDA using their new surrogates
  • 01:28:19
    which are local governments local police
  • 01:28:21
    officials these uh uh these these
  • 01:28:24
    addiction recovery center people who
  • 01:28:26
    have invested financial interest in
  • 01:28:28
    trying to do local bands we do as as
  • 01:28:31
    much as we can to fight back against
  • 01:28:33
    those bands when I'm available I go
  • 01:28:35
    there uh and testify directly uh we we
  • 01:28:38
    put our resources into it we send a
  • 01:28:40
    packet of material in every case we're
  • 01:28:42
    we're not winning that battle uh because
  • 01:28:45
    we still see more and more of these
  • 01:28:46
    things pop up we're going to continue to
  • 01:28:48
    fight we need the help of the local
  • 01:28:50
    constituents in those areas because
  • 01:28:53
    inevitably the complaint they get is
  • 01:28:55
    well who are you from Virginia to come
  • 01:28:57
    and talk to us and who are these
  • 01:28:59
    constituents that live outside of our
  • 01:29:01
    jurisdiction it's not a fair kind of of
  • 01:29:05
    uh criticism by the way because they're
  • 01:29:08
    imposing a regulation that doesn't just
  • 01:29:10
    impact the citizens in their
  • 01:29:11
    jurisdiction it has the effect of
  • 01:29:14
    influencing other communities and so
  • 01:29:16
    they ought to be more responsible the
  • 01:29:17
    way they do it but we need your help
  • 01:29:18
    we're going to continue to work to earn
  • 01:29:20
    that trust and inform you as best we can
  • 01:29:23
    about how things are going and uh we're
  • 01:29:25
    going to continue to work it lots of
  • 01:29:26
    challenges Facebook social media with
  • 01:29:29
    their current nonsense where they're
  • 01:29:30
    trying to to you know when you try to
  • 01:29:32
    search for Crum things they say it's a
  • 01:29:34
    drug and you should be concerned about
  • 01:29:35
    it uh that's all FDA nonsense and we're
  • 01:29:38
    fighting back uh with them as well so
  • 01:29:40
    lots of fires to put out but lots of
  • 01:29:43
    willing hands to do it and and there
  • 01:29:45
    can't be a better group than the the
  • 01:29:47
    foxel that we occupy with you uh in in
  • 01:29:51
    taking this fight to those people that
  • 01:29:53
    are anti rum uh so thank you for all the
  • 01:29:55
    work that you do and uh we'll schedule
  • 01:29:58
    another webinar here shortly before the
  • 01:30:00
    beginning of the new legislative session
  • 01:30:02
    to bring you up to date on things so
  • 01:30:03
    thanks everyone for joining us and we
  • 01:30:05
    appreciate it very much
Tags
  • Kratom
  • Reglementare
  • FDA
  • Indonezia
  • Advocacy
  • Prețuri
  • Calitate
  • Veterani
  • Programe guvernamentale
  • Interzicere