Advocacy Update
Summary
TLDRWebinarul organizat de Asociația Americană de Kratom a discutat mai multe subiecte relevante pentru utilizatorii și susținătorii kratomului. Una dintre principalele teme a fost reglementarea recentă a kratomului din Indonezia, care a provocat îngrijorări privind creșterea prețurilor și capacitatea limitată de procesare care ar putea genera o piață neagră. De asemenea, s-a menționat documentarul Bloomberg care a avut mesaje mixte despre kratom și un articol despre studiile FDA, subliniind limitările privind băuturile lichide problematice. Discuția a evidențiat și influența puternică a comunității kratom în SUA, care a condus la retragerea unor recomandări de reglementare restrictive. Au fost menționate eforturile continue pentru a asigura accesul legal la produse sigure și neinterzise de instituții precum FDA și implicarea agențiilor guvernamentale americane în reglementarea internațională a kratomului. A fost subliniată presiunea politică, socială și economică asupra reglementărilor kratomului și relația complexă cu diverși actori economici și guvernamentali, inclusiv relațiile de putere internațională dintre SUA, Indonezia și China. Participanții la discuție au fost invitați să sprijine eforturile de lobby și advocacy, în timp ce alte inițiative de reglementare au fost discutate pentru a promova siguranța produselor și drepturile consumatorilor.
Takeaways
- 📈 Reglementările din Indonezia pot crește prețurile kratomului.
- 🎥 Documentarul Bloomberg are mesaje mixte despre kratom.
- ⚖️ Advocacy-ul a influențat reglementările kratomului în SUA.
- 🌍 Reglementările internaționale includ influențe SUA-China.
- 📜 FDA are obiective ascunse privind interzicerea.
- 💪 Comunitatea kratom continuă să susțină accesul sigur.
- 🇮🇩 Relațiile SUA-Indonezia afectează reglementarea kratomului.
- 🔬 Studiile științifice sunt esențiale pentru reglementarea corectă.
- 💸 Noile regulamente afectează piața internă și externă a kratomului.
- 🔍 Investigarea cauzelor de dezinformare este crucială.
Timeline
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
Ryan Burough, directorul executiv al Asociației Americane pentru Katum, deschide întâlnirea pentru a discuta despre noile reglementări katum din Indonezia și alte subiecte. M. Had, expert în politici publice, împărtășește discuția cu un reporter Bloomberg despre un documentar și un articol echilibrat despre studii ale FDA, subliniind implicarea comunității katum în prevenirea unei recomandări de programare DEA din 2016.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
M. Had aduce mulțumiri apărătoriilor katum și menționează recente eforturi legislative și evenimente de advocacy. Se discută participarea la diferite evenimente și o informare congresională viitoare, subliniind importanța vocilor consumatorilor în menținerea accesului legal la produse katum în SUA. Oferă instrucțiuni despre cum participanții pot pune întrebări la sesiunea de Q&A.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Se discută reglementările recente impuse de guvernul indonezian asupra katum, care ar putea duce la creșterea prețurilor produselor în SUA. Se subliniază două obiective: asigurarea unui salariu minim pentru fermierii katum și implementarea unei taxe pe kilogramele exportate. Reglementările asigură materia primă sigură și bine testată pentru export, sprijinind produsul cu standarde de calitate aliniate cu FDA.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
Noile reglementări indoneziene impun standarde de calitate stricte și limitează numărul de procesatori licențiați. Aceasta poate reduce capacitatea de procesare, afectând fermierii din cauza unei posibile întârzieri și creând amenințarea unei piețe negre. Limitările privind exporturile de frunze zdrobite vizează industria de extracte, ceea ce poate mări costurile și reduce aprovizionarea.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Restricțiile exportului de materii prime neprocesate se bazează pe comenzile de achiziție, dezavantajând jucătorii mici în favoarea celor mari. Se va evalua capacitatea actuală de procesare din Indonezia, iar AKA plănuiește să lucreze cu producătorii din SUA pentru a dezvolta o campanie bazată pe cercetare cu furnizorii din Indonezia, mai ales datorită influenței reglementărilor asupra prețurilor.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
Se discută despre iluzia că sistemul propus va convinge FDA să retragă alerta de import. FDA are un interes ascuns în interzicerea materiilor prime katum ca pseudo-interdicție. AKA se angajează să colaboreze cu guvernul indonezian, oferind recomandări de îmbunătățire, și dezmint faptul că au susținut reglementările fără a fi consultate anterior asupra prevederilor specifice.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
Se abordează implicațiile reglementărilor pentru piețele de extracție și impactul economic, inclusiv companiile chineze interesate de transformarea pădurii în plantații de palmier pentru ulei. Acesta este un domeniu în care interesele comerciale și ecosistemul sunt în conflict. Se dorește crearea unui sistem transparent și echitabil care să protejeze fermierii indonezieni și să răspundă unei piețe internaționale.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Discuții despre piețele competitive, precum Thailanda și riscurile asociate capacității scăzute de procesare din Indonezia. Se afirmă importanța asigurării unui venit stabil fermierilor, inevitabil influențat de capacitățile de prelucrare și export. Limbajul inițial al legislației este focusul principal al lobby-ului și al negocierilor pe sectorul de extragere a katum.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
M. Had solicită comunității să contribuie cu mărturii către legislatori. Subiectul studiului FDA despre katum este analizat, iar impactul acestuia asupra prețurilor și reglementărilor este discutat. Sunt promise mai multe demersuri în 2025, incluzând sesiuni legislative și instruire suplimentară pentru a combate informațiile inexacte și pentru a susține poziția katum.
- 00:45:00 - 00:50:00
Se analizează efectele legislative ale articolelor din mass-media asupra percepției publicului și legiuitorilor despre katum. Studiile de toxicologie și procesele medicilor legişti sunt revizuite pentru a verifica eventualele erori. AKA planifică o întărire a relațiilor științifice și politice, inclusiv briefinguri în fața Congresului pentru a actualiza legiuitorii despre știința din spatele katum.
- 00:50:00 - 00:55:00
AKA revizuiește şi reproiectează legislațiile KCAP și va organiza un briefing pentru Congres pentru a prezenta date științifice recunoscute. Se vor implica lideri din industria medicală și veterani în campania de informare. Planurile includ lobbying activ pentru KCAP în aproape 30 de state și combaterea distorsiunilor privind produsul la nivel federal și de stat.
- 00:55:00 - 01:00:00
Pledarea pentru politici de reglementare mai stricte asupra produselor 7-hidroxi mitragynina și problemele de reglementare pe nivel de stat și federal continuă să fie discutate. Examinarea responsabilităților 7OH și a produselor combinate este crucială pentru siguranță. Se discută dificultățile cu care se confruntă industria pentru îndeplinirea standardelor și reglementărilor federale și locale.
- 01:00:00 - 01:05:00
Atenția se concentrează pe diferențele filosofice dintre AKA și Coaliția Globală de Kratom în abordarea reglementărilor. Se susține modelul de auto-reglementare responsabil și se opune unei scheme de reglementare asemănătoare drogurilor, care ar putea elimina producătorii mici din piață. Se compară resursele financiare și capacitatea de a influența legislația la nivel de stat și federal.
- 01:05:00 - 01:10:00
AKA susține importanța protejării accesului consumatorilor la produse sigure, subliniind necesitatea inovării și competiției. Influența asupra procesului legislativ și de reglementare este esențială pentru menținerea prețurilor accesibile și extinderea pieței legale. O colaborare mai strânsă între state și actorii din industrie este văzută ca un pas crucial în ajustarea reglementarii de piață.
- 01:10:00 - 01:15:00
AKA colaborează cu autoritățile în domeniul sănătății pentru a clarifica rolul reglării katum în Illinois, având susținerea unui lider proeminent în protejarea drepturilor consumatorilor. Concentrarea pe reglementări corecte și protecția cetățenilor este esențială, în special acolo unde agențiile guvernamentale au dificultăți în a defini jurisdicția lor pentru katum.
- 01:15:00 - 01:20:00
Studiul FDA despre potențialul abuzului uman de katum este o etapă crucială, iar transparența și precizia științifică sunt esențiale. AKA va monitoriza îndeaproape pentru a asigura corectitudinea procesului, subliniind nevoia de verificare obiectivă și publicarea rezultatelor privind siguranța katum.
- 01:20:00 - 01:25:00
Se reia tema importanței colaborării între organizațiile de advocacy pentru consumatorii katum, încercându-se armonizarea relațiilor complexe și tensiunilor dintre diferite organizații. Obiectivul este protejarea dreptului consumatorilor la produse sigure și abordări reglementare echitabile, se așteaptă sprijin din comunitate și organizațiile interesate.
- 01:25:00 - 01:30:10
Se subliniază obiectivele pe termen lung ale AKA, concentrându-se pe modele de reglementare eficace, asigurând acces la katum pentru consumatori, și promovând informarea corectă despre siguranța și beneficiile produsului. Îndemnurile se adresează comunității pentru a sprijini misiunea AKA și a colabora în vederea combaterii dezinformării și influențelor nefondate ale organismelor politice.
Mind Map
Frequently Asked Question
Care sunt preocupările principale legate de noile reglementări ale kratomului din Indonezia?
Reglementările recente din Indonezia privind kratomul au adus îngrijorări cu privire la creșterea prețurilor și capacitatea de procesare, care ar putea duce la o piață neagră.
Ce este programul de advocacy pentru veterani menționat în discuție?
Este un program pentru a susține veteranii în utilizarea kratomului și a îmbunătăți accesul la produse sigure în SUA.
Ce acoperă documentarul Bloomberg despre kratom?
Este un documentar realizat de Bloomberg care explorează aspecte legate de kratom, cu părți controversate și o acoperire general bună a subiectului.
Ce detalii sunt discutate în articolul Bloomberg despre kratom?
Articolul prezintă kratomul și reglementările FDA, subliniind lipsa incluziunii băuturilor lichide problematice în studiile de dozare.
Cum au influențat activiștii pentru kratom deciziile privind reglementările acestuia în SUA?
În SUA, advocacy-ul efectuat de comunitatea kratom a dus la respingerea unor propuneri de interzicere a FDA datorită angajamentului lor fervent.
De ce FDA încearcă să oprească vânzarea kratomului?
FDA se opune kratomului deoarece doresc ca acesta să fie clasificat ca un medicament nou și nu ca un supliment alimentar.
Cum folosește Reprezentantul Castor din Florida informații pentru a ataca industria kratomului?
Reprezentantul Castor din Florida utilizează informații discutabile din media pentru a ataca industria kratomului.
Cum influențează FDA autoritățile locale împotriva kratomului?
Autoritățile locale sunt influențate de campanii de dezinformare ale FDA, care induc interziceri locale ale kratomului.
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- 00:00:11good evening and thank you for joining
- 00:00:12us I'm Ryan burough executive director
- 00:00:13of the American catom Association and we
- 00:00:15are joined this evening by m had senior
- 00:00:17fellow in public policy for the AKA we
- 00:00:20call this meeting tonight to provide you
- 00:00:21with the latest news and discuss amongst
- 00:00:24others the new katum regulation
- 00:00:25announced in Indonesia the Bloomberg
- 00:00:27mini documentary representative Caster
- 00:00:30of Florida and the upcoming introduction
- 00:00:32of our new veterans advocacy program our
- 00:00:35Q&A is now open and I will turn it over
- 00:00:37to Mac uh thank you and let me let me
- 00:00:39first uh uh thank everyone for joining
- 00:00:42us and for those that either are on now
- 00:00:45or watch this later on the video uh I
- 00:00:48had an interesting discussion with a
- 00:00:50Bloomberg news reporter uh earlier today
- 00:00:53and Bloomberg has obviously stepped up
- 00:00:56its interest in katum uh we've seen
- 00:00:58their documentary that came came out
- 00:01:00which I think was had very mixed
- 00:01:02messages uh some that I didn't like uh
- 00:01:06uh and I think were unfair some parts of
- 00:01:07it uh but others were were good and and
- 00:01:10advanced uh the understanding about
- 00:01:12katum and then of course they did what I
- 00:01:15thought was a very balanced article
- 00:01:16somewhat tainted about the fda's uh dose
- 00:01:20finding study and of course they had to
- 00:01:22take their little shot about how it
- 00:01:24didn't include some problematic liquid
- 00:01:26drinks and we're going to talk about
- 00:01:28that a little bit tonight uh
- 00:01:30and uh and then but this this reporter
- 00:01:33was doing a more of a background piece
- 00:01:36and she was questioning me about how it
- 00:01:39was that in
- 00:01:422016 that this group of ragtag Advocates
- 00:01:46were were able to turn around a a
- 00:01:50scheduling recommendation that had been
- 00:01:51made by the FDA and that was implemented
- 00:01:55by The Drug Enforcement Administration
- 00:01:57and as everyone now knows the historic
- 00:02:01decision of having the DEA withdraw for
- 00:02:05the first time in the history of 80 plus
- 00:02:08recommendations that have been made for
- 00:02:10previous substances under that section
- 00:02:12of the Controlled Substances Act and I
- 00:02:15was able to relate this to this reporter
- 00:02:17that one of the primary reasons for that
- 00:02:20uh withdrawal occurring was because of
- 00:02:23the passion of the katum community katum
- 00:02:26Advocates who use katum that OD that it
- 00:02:30had uh it was safe and that it had some
- 00:02:33benefits for them and their health and
- 00:02:35well-being which under this constitution
- 00:02:38they have the right to make those
- 00:02:39decisions and she pushed back a little
- 00:02:42bit on me and said you know well you
- 00:02:44know The Advocates are up there on
- 00:02:46Capitol Hill all the time uh really
- 00:02:48trying to uh to to advocate for one
- 00:02:50thing or another you would have to admit
- 00:02:52that this was a fairly unique situation
- 00:02:55and I agree it was uh it was a
- 00:02:57miraculous kind of decision that was
- 00:03:00made by thousands upon thousands of uh
- 00:03:04of katom Advocates and I reminded her
- 00:03:07that there were
- 00:03:09147,000 petition signers opposing the
- 00:03:12ban on the we to people platform that is
- 00:03:15maintained by the white house uh that
- 00:03:17was an extraordinary number of Advocates
- 00:03:20and then of course we had thousands and
- 00:03:22thousands of phone calls that went to
- 00:03:24the DEA we had thousands upon thousands
- 00:03:27of of emails that went uh to members of
- 00:03:31Congress uh which which drove them a
- 00:03:34significant number in a very short
- 00:03:36period of time to actually push back on
- 00:03:39the DEA and we got that historic
- 00:03:41decision which remains uh to this day
- 00:03:44the single time that a scheduling
- 00:03:46recommendation has been withdrawn by the
- 00:03:48DEA based on an outcry from constituents
- 00:03:52since then and I told her this that we
- 00:03:55continue to have these Advocates who are
- 00:03:58are willing to serve their Community uh
- 00:04:02with service in the form of showing up
- 00:04:04at meetings for us at hearings uh and at
- 00:04:08events that help us tell the katom story
- 00:04:11because as much as I am able and and
- 00:04:14take advantage of the opportunity uh to
- 00:04:17talk about the policy side of this what
- 00:04:20moves the needle with legislators and
- 00:04:22public policy makers is to hear the
- 00:04:25impassion pleas of creatum consumers uh
- 00:04:28who are uh are able to articulate in a
- 00:04:32very specific way how katum has improved
- 00:04:34the quality of their lives or even saved
- 00:04:36their lives so we're grateful for that
- 00:04:38um we see some extraordinary Advocates
- 00:04:41who are willing to pitch in on specific
- 00:04:43requests that we've made just in the
- 00:04:45last several months to help us in
- 00:04:47sending that message at champ shows at
- 00:04:49the National Conference of State
- 00:04:51Legislature meetings uh we've got an
- 00:04:53upcoming Congressional briefing that
- 00:04:55I'll talk about here in a little while
- 00:04:57uh that is going to highlight some of
- 00:05:00those voices that are so important and
- 00:05:02it become the Hallmark of the success of
- 00:05:04our efforts in preserving legal access
- 00:05:07to crat safe Crum products in the United
- 00:05:10States today so again thank you to all
- 00:05:12of you uh I'm I'm enormously grateful
- 00:05:15the American creatum Association relies
- 00:05:17upon you we we obviously honor you uh
- 00:05:20for all of the work that you do and we
- 00:05:22don't say enough how important what you
- 00:05:24do and how appreciated you are uh for
- 00:05:27those that step up and take a leadership
- 00:05:29role
- 00:05:30in doing so U so first I want to talk
- 00:05:33about the uh Indonesian regulations that
- 00:05:36the Indonesian government has recently
- 00:05:39implemented uh we are now in a review
- 00:05:42period of those regulations despite the
- 00:05:44fact that they are in place now uh
- 00:05:47anyone who tells you that there's a you
- 00:05:49know any kind of a honeymoon period
- 00:05:51that's not true uh we have some deep
- 00:05:54concerns at the American katom
- 00:05:56Association about some of the provisions
- 00:05:58of these regulations because frankly
- 00:06:00they weren't shared with us despite the
- 00:06:02fact that we're in Indonesia with a
- 00:06:04significant delegation uh everybody was
- 00:06:06close to the vest there about what these
- 00:06:09specific Provisions were and so uh so we
- 00:06:13we obviously have some concerns about
- 00:06:15them and by the way just as an
- 00:06:16administrative matter if you have
- 00:06:18questions please enter them uh in the uh
- 00:06:20in the the button at the bottom where
- 00:06:22you have Q&A and we'll get to those
- 00:06:24questions uh before we conclude tonight
- 00:06:26and answer them for you but essentially
- 00:06:29some of the key provisions of the
- 00:06:32Indonesian regulations will result in
- 00:06:35price increases on katom products in the
- 00:06:38United States some of which are
- 00:06:40Justified because they accomplish two
- 00:06:42important objectives that the American
- 00:06:44catom Association uh definitely supports
- 00:06:48first is that one of the provisions of
- 00:06:50this regulation will provide what I like
- 00:06:53to call a minimum wage for those katum
- 00:06:56farmers who are largely Indigent
- 00:06:58families living in remote areas of
- 00:07:00Indonesia who are the lifeline for Crum
- 00:07:03raw materials being harvested and
- 00:07:05processed in order to get them to
- 00:07:07Milling operations prior to their being
- 00:07:10exported to the United States uh that
- 00:07:13increase and a stable minimum wage for
- 00:07:16them will ensure that they can uh have
- 00:07:19an existence that is reliable in terms
- 00:07:21of their income as they go forward now I
- 00:07:23think that there are some caveats to
- 00:07:25that that we'll discuss here in just a
- 00:07:26minute but we welcome uh this minimum
- 00:07:29wage for them it will start at $3 a kilo
- 00:07:32it averages today less than $150 a kilo
- 00:07:35uh it will also graduate over time to $4
- 00:07:38a kilo and then there's an increase for
- 00:07:40the quality of the mogen that they're
- 00:07:43able to harvest which will encourage
- 00:07:45them to wait for the appropriate time to
- 00:07:48harvest rather than doing it a little
- 00:07:49too quickly when the mogen content of
- 00:07:52the Craton plants are not as high so
- 00:07:54that's a positive thing the second cost
- 00:07:57increase uh and again we support it is
- 00:08:00that in order for the government to
- 00:08:01implement this new regulatory plan it
- 00:08:03obviously is going to cost funds to do
- 00:08:05it there's a fiscal note that is
- 00:08:07associated with it and so the government
- 00:08:09has proposed that they will collect on
- 00:08:11each kilo of Crum that is exported from
- 00:08:14Indonesia will include a tariff this is
- 00:08:17common for countries to do this uh we
- 00:08:20understand that it should be done and as
- 00:08:21long as those tariffs are not owner us
- 00:08:24uh and they don't constitute a taking uh
- 00:08:27of the ability of the katum processors
- 00:08:30in order to export katum raw materials
- 00:08:32we support it that will lead to a price
- 00:08:35increase for katum consumers in the
- 00:08:38United States and highlights the
- 00:08:40importance of katum consumers being very
- 00:08:43careful about purchasing katum products
- 00:08:46based on price alone because these
- 00:08:48regulations will ensure a couple of
- 00:08:50things quality crat and raw materials
- 00:08:53well tested materials before they leave
- 00:08:55Indonesia which are part of the funding
- 00:08:57provided by the tariffs where where the
- 00:09:00raw materials will be tested for
- 00:09:01contaminants and any adulterant uh and
- 00:09:04that's an important quality step that
- 00:09:06will be invaluable for us in presenting
- 00:09:09to the Food and Drug Administration A
- 00:09:11system that is committed to the
- 00:09:13wholesomeness of crat and raw materials
- 00:09:16that meet or exceed FDA standards as
- 00:09:19they go forward here in the United
- 00:09:20States so we welcome this uh we think
- 00:09:22it's an important step uh forward in
- 00:09:25this regard now the other thing that
- 00:09:27these regul several things these Reg
- 00:09:29ulations do first they impose a quality
- 00:09:32standard that is required for the export
- 00:09:35of the raw materials uh and that will
- 00:09:37mean that they have to have the capacity
- 00:09:40to not only uh process these materials
- 00:09:43making certain that they are free from
- 00:09:44contaminants which means they have to
- 00:09:46use food grade machines uh which are
- 00:09:49sterilized which are stainless steel uh
- 00:09:51and I fear that they do not currently
- 00:09:54have the export capacity to meet demand
- 00:09:57here in the United States now there are
- 00:10:00people in Indonesia that dispute that
- 00:10:02and say no we'll be able to meet the
- 00:10:03demand uh I don't think that they've
- 00:10:06rationally thought through this at this
- 00:10:07point nor have they pressure tested that
- 00:10:09claim uh and so it will be important to
- 00:10:12be able to process enough material that
- 00:10:15is collected from the farmers to make
- 00:10:17sure that the system works properly but
- 00:10:19if there becomes a backlog of this
- 00:10:21material because there's not a
- 00:10:23processing capacity by the qualified
- 00:10:26licensed processors and I'm told that
- 00:10:29the the government initially at least
- 00:10:30for the first six months will probably
- 00:10:33license no more than six of these
- 00:10:35processors Milling operations and I
- 00:10:38don't think that meets the demand and
- 00:10:40we're going to watch this closely we're
- 00:10:42going to test whether or not the claims
- 00:10:44made by the Indonesian uh processors
- 00:10:47over there pass muster uh because it is
- 00:10:49important to ensure that that quality of
- 00:10:51the raw materials are there and if you
- 00:10:52develop a huge backlog two things will
- 00:10:55happen farmers will not get paid because
- 00:10:57they're not going to need as many much
- 00:11:00of the cating raw material so even
- 00:11:01though you've boosted the price if you
- 00:11:03if you purchase less the effect is the
- 00:11:05same in terms of disadvantaging those
- 00:11:07farmers and their families and if you
- 00:11:09have too big of a backlog it creates a
- 00:11:12black market where people will work
- 00:11:14around that system and that increases
- 00:11:16the threat of contaminated raw materials
- 00:11:19being shipped into the United States as
- 00:11:21we go forward so we're concerned about
- 00:11:24the regulations not having a a phase in
- 00:11:27Period that would allow for a more
- 00:11:29effective way of merely lab testing the
- 00:11:32materials prior to export rather than
- 00:11:34restricting the number of processors uh
- 00:11:37and thereby restricting the capacity
- 00:11:39that they can generate of of uh quality
- 00:11:42raw materials that are free from
- 00:11:43contamination uh they're still going to
- 00:11:45do testing by the way and I think that's
- 00:11:46an important step in order to validate
- 00:11:48what the processors are doing uh they
- 00:11:51also have imposed the limit on crushed
- 00:11:53leaves and crumbs being exported the
- 00:11:56target for that limitation on crushed
- 00:11:59leav leaves and crumbs as opposed to
- 00:12:00processed powder is they're targeting
- 00:12:03the extract industry um that is a
- 00:12:06mistake because most of the uh marketing
- 00:12:10uh of katum products in the United
- 00:12:12States is focused on extract products I
- 00:12:14am not talking about highly concentrated
- 00:12:17and dangerous products I'm talking about
- 00:12:19extracts that are recognized in the food
- 00:12:22drug and cosmetic act as common in the
- 00:12:24dietary supplement space that are
- 00:12:26extracted using food grade solvents
- 00:12:29under under processes that are approved
- 00:12:31by International standards that produce
- 00:12:34safe materials uh that's the kind of
- 00:12:36extract material that I'm talking about
- 00:12:38and too often we conflate an extract
- 00:12:41material somehow being dangerous when
- 00:12:43it's compared to a highly concentrated
- 00:12:46and products that should should not be
- 00:12:48formulated in that way uh that would in
- 00:12:50fact present a threat to Consumers so
- 00:12:53when I talk about extracts it's
- 00:12:55important to note that we're talking
- 00:12:56about those that are processed correctly
- 00:12:58used food grade solvents approved by the
- 00:13:01FDA for that purpose but the Indonesian
- 00:13:04government has said that they will not
- 00:13:06allow any export of crushed leaves or
- 00:13:09crumbs which means two things will
- 00:13:11happen in order to do extraction
- 00:13:13methodology for products like that you
- 00:13:15would have to consume a significant
- 00:13:17amount of powdered Crum material uh If
- 00:13:20you eliminate crushed leaves and crumbs
- 00:13:23uh and that's because you in order for
- 00:13:25the solvents to work effectively you to
- 00:13:27extract the mogyy uh you have to have a
- 00:13:30larger surface area or it becomes
- 00:13:32largely inefficient and unfortunately as
- 00:13:35it stands now this limitation on crust
- 00:13:38leaves and crumbs that currently exists
- 00:13:41right now uh are are going to be
- 00:13:44burdensome and I think overly
- 00:13:45restrictive and potentially going to
- 00:13:47create a real problem because it will
- 00:13:49consume much of the powdered material
- 00:13:52which will again uh shrink the supply
- 00:13:54drive up demand and increase cost
- 00:13:56unnecessarily along the way so we should
- 00:13:59be prepared for that there also are
- 00:14:02regulations as we understand them that
- 00:14:04will limit the amount of M processed raw
- 00:14:07material that can be shipped from
- 00:14:09exporters that are registered with the
- 00:14:11government based on a qualif
- 00:14:14pre-qualification procedure meaning that
- 00:14:16they will limit the amount to a purchase
- 00:14:19order that is provided by the processor
- 00:14:23well that doesn't work very well when
- 00:14:25you have a lot of the processing that
- 00:14:27goes on now and the shipping and
- 00:14:28exporting out of Indonesia that arrives
- 00:14:30in the United States in warehouses here
- 00:14:32and there they await the purchase orders
- 00:14:34so you create a lag in the marketplace
- 00:14:37that Demands a purchase order upfront
- 00:14:39and then if the if the processor
- 00:14:43produces you know effectively uh
- 00:14:46processes and sends and exports that
- 00:14:47material then they could apply for
- 00:14:50additional uh export uh capacity and
- 00:14:53quantities based on purchase orders and
- 00:14:56so you reward the big uh players in in
- 00:14:59the industry and you significantly
- 00:15:01disadvantage the smaller players because
- 00:15:03they're not going to be offering
- 00:15:05purchase orders for large volumes and
- 00:15:07you will have the large vendors
- 00:15:09overwhelm the small guys that's just
- 00:15:12simply unfair and and not very well
- 00:15:14thought out when it comes to uh the way
- 00:15:17that the the the regulation should
- 00:15:19actually work in order to support a
- 00:15:22robust American uh katum Marketplace we
- 00:15:26are told that we'll have 6 months of
- 00:15:28this Burning period before any changes
- 00:15:30can be made uh to this regulation we are
- 00:15:33going to be working with manufacturers
- 00:15:35here in the United States to ask them to
- 00:15:38to to build up a Grassroots campaign in
- 00:15:40Indonesia with their katum suppliers
- 00:15:43many of whom likely will be eliminated
- 00:15:45in this process at least for the short
- 00:15:47term because they're restricting the
- 00:15:49number of of licenses that are be going
- 00:15:51to be granted under the uh the current
- 00:15:54process for export uh we're very
- 00:15:56concerned about all of those elements of
- 00:15:59this at the end of the day what we hope
- 00:16:01will be true is that you will have a
- 00:16:04system that protects the farmers and
- 00:16:06currently just so everyone knows the way
- 00:16:09the system has disadvantaged the farmers
- 00:16:11is that because of the import alert it
- 00:16:13is a highrisk Endeavor to purchase katum
- 00:16:17raw materials from Farmers and then for
- 00:16:19the processor or the broker that
- 00:16:21purchases those raw materials to take
- 00:16:23all of the risk of getting the the raw
- 00:16:26materials exported to the United States
- 00:16:28through custom
- 00:16:29and then into a processor who only pay
- 00:16:32for it if uh they've tested it to be
- 00:16:34free from contaminants and it actually
- 00:16:36arrives at their manufacturing facility
- 00:16:39and so that has forced A A A system that
- 00:16:43pays the farmer A reduced amount because
- 00:16:45the risks are assumed by the the Brokers
- 00:16:48or the processors and it is unfair to
- 00:16:51the farmers and understanding the way uh
- 00:16:53trade commodity practices work this is
- 00:16:56an anomaly created completely and
- 00:16:58totally by the fda's import alert that
- 00:17:01import alert has to go and there's a
- 00:17:03plan that we have for it but I'll tell
- 00:17:05you the one fallacy that the Indonesian
- 00:17:07government officials however
- 00:17:09well-intentioned their efforts in in
- 00:17:11formulating this regulation and where
- 00:17:13they missed the boat they believe that
- 00:17:16if they were to produce a system that
- 00:17:19guarantees that katum exported raw
- 00:17:21materials from Indonesia will be fully
- 00:17:24tested for contaminants that will only
- 00:17:26be processed by GMP qualif IED
- 00:17:29processors that use that use stainless
- 00:17:32steel food grade equipment that reduces
- 00:17:34the potential for contamination and if
- 00:17:36they can prove it with a test they
- 00:17:38believe the Indonesian officials believe
- 00:17:40and they stated it to me that the FDA
- 00:17:43will withdraw its import alert that is
- 00:17:45not true the FDA uses the import alert
- 00:17:49as a ruse in order to execute their
- 00:17:51effort to ban Crum raw materials in the
- 00:17:54and katum products in the United States
- 00:17:56their theory is they can abuse their
- 00:17:58import alert Authority granted to them
- 00:18:00by Congress in order to allow the uh to
- 00:18:04stop the importation of raw materials as
- 00:18:06a defacto ban that's what they want and
- 00:18:08it has nothing to do with the quality of
- 00:18:10those raw materials coming into the
- 00:18:12United States in fact the Indonesian
- 00:18:14government has done an excellent job in
- 00:18:16in certainly in controlling the
- 00:18:18contamination of raw materials because
- 00:18:20the last known outbreak of salmonella or
- 00:18:23eoli occurred in the United States
- 00:18:26associated with Craton raw materials in
- 00:18:272018 there hasn't been one another one
- 00:18:30since but you can see every week that
- 00:18:33there are outbreaks of Sal salmonella
- 00:18:35and eoli on a number of produce and meat
- 00:18:38products that are coming into the United
- 00:18:40States and it's common for these kinds
- 00:18:42of products for that to happen and lots
- 00:18:44of different sources and none of those
- 00:18:46none of those outbreaks of salmonella or
- 00:18:48ecoli result in the FDA calling for a
- 00:18:51ban on the products that are subjected
- 00:18:54to that scrutiny along the way it is
- 00:18:56unfair to katom and we've known that
- 00:18:58that's the hand that we're dealt with
- 00:19:00the FDA so we simply have to deal with
- 00:19:03it uh we we are going we are pledging
- 00:19:06and I have committed to the Indonesian
- 00:19:08government that the American catom
- 00:19:10Association will continue to be a good
- 00:19:12partner uh and that means that we're
- 00:19:14going to provide recommendations for
- 00:19:17improving their systems we're going to
- 00:19:19do so we're going to tell them when we
- 00:19:20disagree and I have in fact when I spoke
- 00:19:23to the minister of trade he was shocked
- 00:19:26that the American catom Association had
- 00:19:28raised the the concerns that we
- 00:19:29identified that I just articulated with
- 00:19:32you uh because he believed that the
- 00:19:34American catom Association had endorsed
- 00:19:37these regulations we had not even been
- 00:19:39pre presented with the opportunity to
- 00:19:41review them prior to their enactment uh
- 00:19:44and and while we conceptually understood
- 00:19:46that they were doing these regulations
- 00:19:49we had no idea of the specific
- 00:19:51Provisions that I've discussed with you
- 00:19:53here uh that obviously are problematic
- 00:19:55as we go forward so that being said uh
- 00:19:58we we have a few months where there's
- 00:20:01going to be turbulence in the
- 00:20:02marketplace it is guaranteed that that's
- 00:20:05going to happen uh we hope that it'll
- 00:20:07smooth out with some negotiations that
- 00:20:08are ongoing we hope that there will be a
- 00:20:11carve out for some of these uh raw
- 00:20:14materials so that we don't have these
- 00:20:15shortages that are anticipated and that
- 00:20:18we can develop a a alternative uh
- 00:20:21workaround at least for the first
- 00:20:23several months so that we can make sure
- 00:20:25that the needs of the American Consumer
- 00:20:27and globally by the way because this
- 00:20:29impacts them going forward let me just
- 00:20:31finish by saying you know what the
- 00:20:33theory is behind the the crush leaves
- 00:20:36and crumbs that are necessary for the uh
- 00:20:39the extract products and the extraction
- 00:20:41methodology for that uh the there is a
- 00:20:45clear bias in Indonesia uh about extract
- 00:20:49products and that is because it is
- 00:20:51illegal right now in Indonesia to
- 00:20:54extract Crum raw materials into extract
- 00:20:57raw materials and and so there's no
- 00:20:59economic incentive and in fact the
- 00:21:01limitation they placed on the crush
- 00:21:03leaves and the crumbs put in a size
- 00:21:05limitation based on a mesh size for
- 00:21:08which the material could fall through
- 00:21:09the mesh uh that simply added a
- 00:21:11requirement that allowed for Indonesian
- 00:21:14processors to have control of the crumbs
- 00:21:17and Crush Leaf material uh so that they
- 00:21:20could be a part of the financial
- 00:21:22transaction that's going on uh we hope
- 00:21:24that we can relieve that issue as well
- 00:21:27uh we think it's very important for to
- 00:21:28happen and so we will keep you posted as
- 00:21:31we go forward uh on that I'm going to
- 00:21:33pause for just a minute and see if there
- 00:21:35are issues or questions um about the uh
- 00:21:39the Indonesian situation I'm going to
- 00:21:41scan through them real quickly um well
- 00:21:43here's a good question what is the
- 00:21:44opinion of Thai katum and the upcoming
- 00:21:46Boon of imports Thailand seems to have
- 00:21:48better tasted in harvesting practices so
- 00:21:51there's a this is a great question
- 00:21:52because there are some reports that I've
- 00:21:54received that there are some processes
- 00:21:57that the tie um the the Thai
- 00:22:00manufacturers of katum are using that
- 00:22:02are different from Indonesia in terms of
- 00:22:05the drying process and that may account
- 00:22:07for some of the uh uh the the taste of
- 00:22:11of Thai material but what is important
- 00:22:14is that when you see a uh an increase in
- 00:22:18the price driven by a floor price or a
- 00:22:20minimum wage for farmers and the tariffs
- 00:22:23it makes Indonesian uh Crum raw
- 00:22:26materials more expensive and makes Thai
- 00:22:28raw materials more competitive and so
- 00:22:31that I think that's healthy by the way
- 00:22:33but it certainly won't be something the
- 00:22:34Indonesian Farmers want to hear about
- 00:22:36that these regulations delivered a an
- 00:22:38unforeseen and unanticipated consequence
- 00:22:41that you may have more competition in
- 00:22:43the marketplace with Thai products but I
- 00:22:46I've heard this repeatedly that uh that
- 00:22:49the Thai Crum seems to taste better and
- 00:22:51goes down better so we'll see uh Kim
- 00:22:53asked the question beside in Indonesia
- 00:22:55what other countries are exporting crat
- 00:22:57to the US market what is the Outlook
- 00:22:58that these other countries will
- 00:22:59Implement similar legislation as in
- 00:23:01Indonesia did first Thailand has already
- 00:23:04done so um they uh they have a very
- 00:23:07tightly controlled Marketplace uh but
- 00:23:10they they're they're actually doing the
- 00:23:13traceability of the raw materials which
- 00:23:15is a key element that the FDA likes to
- 00:23:17see in a balls and Strikes environment
- 00:23:20if they were just looking at protecting
- 00:23:22Crum raw materials if the FDA were just
- 00:23:24doing that they would welcome that
- 00:23:25traceability part of it and the
- 00:23:27Indonesian while it's not part of the
- 00:23:29regulations the Indonesian Growers are
- 00:23:31developing a similar system in fact I
- 00:23:34just got their their program it's called
- 00:23:35sepor and if I can get it up there so
- 00:23:38seorai is their process to do a
- 00:23:41computerized system to track the Crum
- 00:23:44leaves back to the farm and the tree
- 00:23:46where they originate so I think that's
- 00:23:48that's a good thing but that's already
- 00:23:49being done in Thailand I think that
- 00:23:52there are other countries where TI where
- 00:23:54where Crum is being grown uh there are
- 00:23:57new plantations being developed and I
- 00:23:59think they've come online in Africa and
- 00:24:01so there's another potential competitive
- 00:24:03Marketplace depends on how it's done but
- 00:24:06uh this is a situation of following the
- 00:24:09money and in some cases the incentive
- 00:24:12for increased profits or increased
- 00:24:15pricing uh can overwhelm good sense and
- 00:24:18uh there's a balance here and we want to
- 00:24:20help them maintain that balance as we go
- 00:24:22forward so I think that's uh uh that's
- 00:24:24terrific um so uh Jeff said sounds like
- 00:24:28a lot of moving parts are relatively
- 00:24:30unsophisticated Farmers they are
- 00:24:32unsophisticated they are poor families
- 00:24:35uh they live in remote regions where the
- 00:24:37the trees grow ubiquitously it is an
- 00:24:40economic opportunity for them it doesn't
- 00:24:42mean that they have the
- 00:24:44sophistication uh that is required to be
- 00:24:47business people uh and that allows for
- 00:24:49them to be uh frankly abused along the
- 00:24:52way and that's why I think it's a good
- 00:24:54thing that you put in this minimum price
- 00:24:57uh as a minimum wage because I think
- 00:24:59it'll protect them along the way uh and
- 00:25:02I think that that's uh very important
- 00:25:04and we support it but it does have
- 00:25:07consequences um as we go forward uh so
- 00:25:10so we'll see how that develops um
- 00:25:12Jennifer says does it mean the farmers
- 00:25:14are being knocked out by tariffs giving
- 00:25:15larger companies to get control and buy
- 00:25:17from small farmers than charging more
- 00:25:19from us and giving them less for the
- 00:25:20product so here's the way it works the
- 00:25:23there no longer will be a an opportunity
- 00:25:26for a farmer to sell their Crum raw
- 00:25:28materials to anyone who shows up and
- 00:25:30says I'll buy it it has to be sold to a
- 00:25:33qualified registered processor that's
- 00:25:36the only way the crat and raw materials
- 00:25:38are going to be exported out of
- 00:25:39Indonesia so there won't be this
- 00:25:42opportunity to shop around uh and in
- 00:25:45fact they will have very limited
- 00:25:46opportunities and the the the exchange
- 00:25:49for that is that they get a guaranteed
- 00:25:51price of $3 a kilo start out goes to
- 00:25:54four $4 I think within a year so that's
- 00:25:57the tradeoff and again a little
- 00:26:00difficult to figure that out but uh they
- 00:26:02will be they will suffer from a a choke
- 00:26:05hold or tourniquet that's devised by the
- 00:26:08qualified raw material manufacturers if
- 00:26:10they cannot process it with the
- 00:26:12available equipment and that's the real
- 00:26:15question today is does the existing
- 00:26:18capacity have the kind of throughput
- 00:26:20that allows for the market globally to
- 00:26:23be served and I don't think it does
- 00:26:25based on the visit that we just had
- 00:26:27there uh there's not enough online today
- 00:26:30online processing facilities that meet
- 00:26:31FDA quality standards that can uh meet
- 00:26:34the demand and that's the concern that
- 00:26:36I've got so uh we will see how that
- 00:26:39works uh John asked what the realistic
- 00:26:41timetable for reversing the FDA import
- 00:26:43alert whether through legislation or
- 00:26:44litigation uh we are going to refile the
- 00:26:47federal K kcpa which will provide that
- 00:26:51the the import alert gets lifted directs
- 00:26:53the FDA to lift it but there is a very
- 00:26:55interesting uh thing that happened when
- 00:26:58the Supreme Court ruled in a uh in a
- 00:27:01completely separate issue called the
- 00:27:02chevron case which essentially says that
- 00:27:05the federal judges no longer H are are
- 00:27:09compelled to rely upon the
- 00:27:11interpretation of the federal agency of
- 00:27:13the statute when there's any ambiguity
- 00:27:16now the agency's burden of proof in a
- 00:27:19federal court of law will be that their
- 00:27:20interpretation is correct and based on
- 00:27:22good science it is a it is a great
- 00:27:25opportunity for the import alert to be
- 00:27:27challenged then we're working with our
- 00:27:29legal teams and in cooperation with some
- 00:27:31of the importers to see if we can put
- 00:27:34together a case that will challenge the
- 00:27:36import alert going forward and I think
- 00:27:38that's important the pressure of the
- 00:27:41Indonesian regulations will be important
- 00:27:44not just to the FDA and I I think
- 00:27:46frankly the FDA is going to ignore them
- 00:27:48but they will be important to uh to the
- 00:27:51Department of Commerce and to the
- 00:27:52Department of State and to the
- 00:27:54Congressional foreign policy committees
- 00:27:56all of whom have a much larger role to
- 00:27:59play in this this foreign policy
- 00:28:02Universe where they want to develop a
- 00:28:04foreign policy program that uh that that
- 00:28:07offsets the influence that the Chinese
- 00:28:09government is trying to exert in
- 00:28:11Indonesia financially and socially and
- 00:28:14so the for example the Chinese
- 00:28:16government has come in and said we will
- 00:28:18we will help you burn down the Crum
- 00:28:20Forest the the rainforce where katum
- 00:28:23trees grow and we will help you build
- 00:28:25palm oil plantations because there is a
- 00:28:27huge demand by Chinese uh processors to
- 00:28:30feed a growing demand for palm oil which
- 00:28:33is used in food products around the
- 00:28:34globe and so uh it is in the United
- 00:28:37States interest to offset that influence
- 00:28:40and if the FDA is Prosecuting their own
- 00:28:43Petty battle about wanting to ban katum
- 00:28:46using the uh the import alert process
- 00:28:49and abusing it I should say uh then I
- 00:28:51think these other agencies and Congress
- 00:28:53can weigh in and say enough enough of
- 00:28:55the nonsense enough for the petty
- 00:28:57childish behavior we now got to do the
- 00:28:59right thing uh in order to maintain a
- 00:29:02consistent foreign policy and so the
- 00:29:04Indonesian government um is now working
- 00:29:08uh with uh will be working with the uh
- 00:29:12the AKA and these these other agencies
- 00:29:14in the federal government in order to
- 00:29:16deliver uh that message uh Michael Fano
- 00:29:20asked as is the BNN still pursuing any
- 00:29:22Indonesian B uh in a meeting last year
- 00:29:25uh that we were invited to participate
- 00:29:27in general Moko the chief of staff to
- 00:29:29president chawi uh convened all
- 00:29:31stakeholders meeting and included the
- 00:29:34BNN they were given uh a substantial
- 00:29:37amount of time to make their
- 00:29:38presentation General Moko then invited
- 00:29:40the scientists that were there from the
- 00:29:42United States and the American catom
- 00:29:44Association to make our case we were
- 00:29:46given an adequate amount of time to do
- 00:29:48that and at the end General Moko said
- 00:29:50that he was persuaded by the scientist
- 00:29:53and by the way the uh the Indonesian
- 00:29:55Brin which is their equivalent of the
- 00:29:57national institutes on health a
- 00:29:58research-based organization and their
- 00:30:01Ministry of Health both weighed in on
- 00:30:02our side and so uh General Moko said
- 00:30:05that the policy of the uh Indonesian
- 00:30:07government would be that kraton would be
- 00:30:09treated as a medicinal herb and that the
- 00:30:11BNN would not be uh allowed to to
- 00:30:14implement their proposed ban now that
- 00:30:17doesn't mean the BNN is not continuing
- 00:30:20uh to to pursue their efforts to get
- 00:30:22katum banned they're doing it at the
- 00:30:24Aion uh group uh because they're the
- 00:30:27indes Ian representative and we're
- 00:30:29talking to the Indonesian government
- 00:30:30about that problem uh so they're
- 00:30:32continuing to do it uh Brian ask what is
- 00:30:35the status of fair trade negotiation
- 00:30:37with the copu group uh I'm I'm going to
- 00:30:39be as delicate as I can be cou is a
- 00:30:42small Cog in a very large machine uh
- 00:30:46over in Indonesia there are one of about
- 00:30:48nine or 10 uh of the The Growers groups
- 00:30:51uh we we dealt in good faith from the
- 00:30:54American catom Association with copou
- 00:30:57and the leader of C
- 00:30:58in Indonesia and what we discovered was
- 00:31:01that uh that there was a lack of
- 00:31:04Integrity in the pronouncements and
- 00:31:07statements that were made by the copou
- 00:31:10leaders about what their role in the
- 00:31:12actual production of crat and raw
- 00:31:14materials were being sold and exported
- 00:31:16to the United States for sale and and it
- 00:31:19was it became an irresolvable conflict
- 00:31:21because there you couldn't depend on
- 00:31:23anything that was being said and every
- 00:31:26time they were they were Challen
- 00:31:28the story changed and so uh I will
- 00:31:31respect anyone who wants to keep katum
- 00:31:34legal copero actually proposed last year
- 00:31:38to the Indonesian government that all
- 00:31:41catom exports to the United States
- 00:31:43should be terminated until they
- 00:31:46developed a system that benefited them
- 00:31:48and that's self-serving it's it's
- 00:31:50frankly a financial incentive that
- 00:31:52overcame good sense and so I can tell
- 00:31:55you my perspective my opinion that until
- 00:31:58copou wants to come into the family of
- 00:32:01responsible people that want to do this
- 00:32:04then I don't think that they've earned a
- 00:32:05seat at the table at this point now I'm
- 00:32:07not disrespecting the perspective that
- 00:32:10they have in terms of their so-called
- 00:32:12fair trade negotiation their fair trade
- 00:32:14status was far more onor than giving a
- 00:32:17minimum wage to the farmers they wanted
- 00:32:20to set the price going out of Indonesia
- 00:32:22and that was for the benefit not of the
- 00:32:24farmers but rather of the processors and
- 00:32:27to me price fixing like that has no
- 00:32:30place in a free enterprise system as it
- 00:32:32is we have to accommodate a a u a
- 00:32:34tainted system that the import alert has
- 00:32:37imposed on them but the solution is not
- 00:32:39to go into these price fixing things I
- 00:32:42respect that the leader of the copu
- 00:32:45group Johannes can have a different
- 00:32:47viewpoint but in front of many witnesses
- 00:32:50he misrepresented and he changed his
- 00:32:52story consistently when challenged uh
- 00:32:55where to the point that it just there's
- 00:32:56no reliability anything that was said so
- 00:32:59that's why the current status of the
- 00:33:01copou discussions and I understand that
- 00:33:04uh that the copou has a a group of
- 00:33:06followers in the United States uh who
- 00:33:08are working with them in business
- 00:33:10relationships to franchise uh catom
- 00:33:12sales in the individual states I know
- 00:33:15and respect several of those people that
- 00:33:17are working with them Paul Kemp's an
- 00:33:18example uh Paul is a tremendous catom
- 00:33:22Advocate and I respect him beyond belief
- 00:33:25but people can be wrong just as I can be
- 00:33:27wrong by the way but in this case the
- 00:33:29evidence is clear that the coper boot
- 00:33:32group uh tried to overstate and overplay
- 00:33:34their role along the way so I am much
- 00:33:37more encouraged by the other eight
- 00:33:39groups or nine groups whatever many
- 00:33:41there are right now uh being having
- 00:33:43Fidelity to the goal going forward so if
- 00:33:46i' if I've stepped on the toes of the
- 00:33:48cop group I apologize I didn't intend to
- 00:33:51do that I wanted to Simply State the
- 00:33:53position Daniel Torres who is one of the
- 00:33:55copou leaders in the United States sits
- 00:33:58behind a keyboard and he asks these
- 00:34:00question he claims ask questions be's
- 00:34:02taking pot shots at me and the AKA and I
- 00:34:04invited him to come on a webinar like
- 00:34:07this one and we could have a fa debate
- 00:34:09he has declined and I just don't think
- 00:34:12he said well he'll meet with me
- 00:34:13oneon-one why would I do that why what
- 00:34:16good would come from having a sitdown
- 00:34:17session oneon-one to consume time to do
- 00:34:20that when the real issues or the ones
- 00:34:22that he identifies when he sits behind
- 00:34:23that keyboard and puts up on social
- 00:34:26media platforms I just just don't think
- 00:34:28that's the right way to do things and
- 00:34:29and I think we ought to be transparent
- 00:34:30and open book I want to be that and so I
- 00:34:33went on a podcast just last weekend and
- 00:34:35you can go watch it uh where you know we
- 00:34:37talked about this but Daniel Torres
- 00:34:39refused he's part of the cop coper group
- 00:34:42so I hope we can find a way to negotiate
- 00:34:45and work together uh where we have
- 00:34:47common goals and I hope that they will
- 00:34:49understand that there is a far better
- 00:34:51process that protects not only the
- 00:34:53farmers in Indonesia but also protects
- 00:34:56consumers in the United States
- 00:34:58and we don't have these intervening
- 00:35:00money issues that are purely price
- 00:35:03controls that harm everyone in that
- 00:35:05process and that's what copou was at
- 00:35:07least advocating last year when we met
- 00:35:09with them in IND Indonesia so uh that's
- 00:35:12that's where we stand on that issue
- 00:35:14right now
- 00:35:15um Nicholas ask are many of the katom
- 00:35:18powdered products from Southeast Asia
- 00:35:19generally organic and made without
- 00:35:21pesticides is there anything that can be
- 00:35:22changed the nutrient and alkaloid
- 00:35:24profile of katum leaves um this is this
- 00:35:27is an interesting but complex question
- 00:35:29uh most of the Crum raw materials that
- 00:35:31are produced in Indonesia do not have
- 00:35:33the benefit of of any pesticides because
- 00:35:35they're not needed um there may be some
- 00:35:39uh plantations where there are specific
- 00:35:41local problems with pesticide pests and
- 00:35:43maybe that's going to happen but it it
- 00:35:45certainly doesn't be need need to be
- 00:35:47done now in the drying process it's a
- 00:35:50little different problem you don't need
- 00:35:52pesticides you need to make sure you use
- 00:35:54drying sheds rather than laying it out
- 00:35:55on the ground where any pest can walk
- 00:35:57through it and uh of course have
- 00:35:59problems with that so uh I I have been
- 00:36:02impressed with the improvements in the
- 00:36:06Indonesian farmer operations where they
- 00:36:08they harvest the leaves they they dry
- 00:36:11them they dry them mostly appropriately
- 00:36:14now they didn't four years ago I can
- 00:36:16tell you that but they've made some
- 00:36:17substantial progress and uh and I
- 00:36:19certainly uh applaud them for that
- 00:36:21effort and and they are all organic by
- 00:36:23the way U there's no there are there are
- 00:36:26issues where uh some Farmers add non-
- 00:36:29Crum leafy material to make it look like
- 00:36:32katum to bulk up the volume because
- 00:36:34they're putting tapioca and stems and
- 00:36:36that kind of thing that just happens and
- 00:36:38and certainly these new regulations will
- 00:36:40help to weed out those Bad actors as
- 00:36:42they go forward but this is just the
- 00:36:44nature of the Beast partly because of
- 00:36:46the economics that are involved in it
- 00:36:48and I think that uh uh that this is a
- 00:36:50matter where uh right now the the
- 00:36:53farmers I think are going to be
- 00:36:55incentivized to be more careful and
- 00:36:57certainly the regulations will screen
- 00:36:59out any of these uh add-on organic
- 00:37:01materials that are not Crum being added
- 00:37:03to it Lloyd asked I was wondering when
- 00:37:05China would get involved with this I had
- 00:37:06heard China was getting involved uh
- 00:37:08destroying the force in other countries
- 00:37:10in Africa for Palm Plantation also and
- 00:37:12in Indonesia surprised they don't have
- 00:37:14their hands in the crate and processing
- 00:37:16uh for for whatever reason China hasn't
- 00:37:18shown an interest in it because the to
- 00:37:20them the economic value is in palm oil
- 00:37:23they're willing to encourage and help
- 00:37:25facilitate the deforestation of the
- 00:37:27Borneo rainforest uh in order to to
- 00:37:30clear the land for palm oil plantations
- 00:37:33and the way they de do deforestation is
- 00:37:35they burned them burn the forest down
- 00:37:37there was a significant deforestation
- 00:37:40effort in
- 00:37:412016 that resulted in over 3,000 deaths
- 00:37:44because of the pollution that got
- 00:37:46generated because of the poor way that
- 00:37:47they did it and and it it actually uh
- 00:37:51then you know resulted in the US
- 00:37:54government and oon Nations forming a
- 00:37:56compact of about the environment that
- 00:37:58would hopefully prevent that kind of
- 00:38:00cata catastrophe from happening again
- 00:38:03but the Chinese are interested in one
- 00:38:04thing and that's the dollar and so uh
- 00:38:06we'll have to watch and see how that
- 00:38:08develops U along the way so we're uh
- 00:38:11we're working hard on on developing that
- 00:38:13so uh I'm going to stop on on Indonesia
- 00:38:16uh for the moment I hope I've given you
- 00:38:18a good background on it uh I again
- 00:38:21extend the invitation on the Cobra issue
- 00:38:23for a responsible discussion uh and it's
- 00:38:26certainly not going to be with someone
- 00:38:28who has demonstrably over time
- 00:38:30consistently uh been been inconsistent
- 00:38:33in the way that they approach it and has
- 00:38:35been I arguably I think uh having a lack
- 00:38:38of Integrity about what the uh the role
- 00:38:41that that individual plays in the actual
- 00:38:42creative Market Place through copero um
- 00:38:46so uh let's move on to the uh to the
- 00:38:492025 plan for kcpa legislation uh and
- 00:38:53let's start first with the the federal
- 00:38:55legislation we are going to be
- 00:38:57redrafting uh the federal kcpa to try to
- 00:39:01accommodate some of the issues that the
- 00:39:03Food and Drug Administration has
- 00:39:04articulated over the past year and a
- 00:39:06half and we're in the process of
- 00:39:08developing that uh many of you may have
- 00:39:10seen the report that representative
- 00:39:12caner from Florida who is largely using
- 00:39:16the uh Tampa Bay Times deadly dose
- 00:39:18article in order to attack the katum
- 00:39:21industry uh and and I'll tell you
- 00:39:23something a very interesting anecdote
- 00:39:25about that story uh many of you that
- 00:39:27read that story may have noticed that
- 00:39:29the Tampa Bay Times attributed to
- 00:39:31medical examiners in the State of
- 00:39:33Florida 46 deaths that were directly
- 00:39:35result of katom only or largely because
- 00:39:38of katom they they waffled a little bit
- 00:39:40they they published the methodology that
- 00:39:43they use describing how they collected
- 00:39:45the data the autopsies and talks reports
- 00:39:48on those 46 stats uh they had to
- 00:39:50describe that because in Florida there's
- 00:39:52no Central repository or collection area
- 00:39:56for autopsy and talk screens on death so
- 00:39:59they went to the 20 plus divisions of
- 00:40:01medical examiners in uh Florida and they
- 00:40:04described in some detail how they did
- 00:40:06this so we replicated that there is an
- 00:40:09outstanding member of the AKA staff who
- 00:40:11spent several months boying the medical
- 00:40:15examiner districts recreating and
- 00:40:17specifically asking those medical
- 00:40:19examiner districts to give us the same
- 00:40:21death reports that have been given to
- 00:40:23the Tampa Bay times at the end of that
- 00:40:25process we have 51 reported deaths that
- 00:40:29are we think are part of the universe of
- 00:40:31the 46 that the Tampa Bay Times uh
- 00:40:33reported on so I reached out to the
- 00:40:36Tampa Bay Times reporters and I said to
- 00:40:38them in order to make certain that we
- 00:40:41are talking apples to apples we will
- 00:40:43give you the names and the case numbers
- 00:40:45of the deaths that we have and we would
- 00:40:46like you to tell us which ones you
- 00:40:48didn't include in your database they
- 00:40:51rejected that they said oh we're not
- 00:40:53going to co-author a journalistic
- 00:40:54article with you well we're not
- 00:40:56interested in doing journalism we're
- 00:40:58interested in publishing a report about
- 00:41:00the truth and they don't want to know
- 00:41:02the truth uh and that's unfortunate
- 00:41:04because that's where we are right now in
- 00:41:07uh with the Tampa Bay Times so what
- 00:41:09we're going to do is proceed with the
- 00:41:11evaluation of all of the deaths uh but
- 00:41:14here's the interesting top level report
- 00:41:16and and outcome of that what we found is
- 00:41:19that the claim made by the Tampa Bay
- 00:41:21Times and upon which representative
- 00:41:22caner relies is false those deaths are
- 00:41:26not katum only in fact in some cases
- 00:41:29that are reported as katum only we found
- 00:41:31that the the request from the uh medical
- 00:41:34examiner to the outside Laboratories
- 00:41:36requested they only test for mogy and
- 00:41:39guess what the only talk screen that
- 00:41:41came back was for a level mogyy we also
- 00:41:45found that the levels of mogyy
- 00:41:47attributed to cause AUM death uh were
- 00:41:49far under what even the I my personal
- 00:41:52opinion the uh the nms labs uh which is
- 00:41:56the leading forensic talk toxology lab
- 00:41:57in the country I think they're pretty
- 00:41:59anti- Crum and they came back and and
- 00:42:02published a peer-reviewed article that
- 00:42:04said that anything under a th000
- 00:42:06nanograms per milliliter in a death
- 00:42:08report is not a katum death and the
- 00:42:10majority vast majority of the 46 deaths
- 00:42:13were under that level there is no basis
- 00:42:15for any medical examiner and certainly
- 00:42:17not the Tampa Bay Times with their
- 00:42:19yellow journalism to publish a report in
- 00:42:21conclusion that is simply not based on
- 00:42:23facts but yet representative caner
- 00:42:25believes it because we would like to
- 00:42:27believe that when a news Outlet
- 00:42:29publishes a report that it's accurate
- 00:42:31now the Tampa Bay times has an option
- 00:42:33here they could say you know Maad you're
- 00:42:35wrong and okay let's let's complete or
- 00:42:39compare I should say the two cases the
- 00:42:41case documents let's make sure we're
- 00:42:43talking the same things and then let's
- 00:42:45look at each one of them and let's have
- 00:42:46an independent forensic toxicologist
- 00:42:48examine them let's see if who's telling
- 00:42:50the truth I made the offer for them to
- 00:42:52get the blood samples of every one of
- 00:42:55those deaths send them to a lab of their
- 00:42:56choice and we would pay for it and they
- 00:42:58said no this is not a journalistic
- 00:43:01effort by them it is a hit job and I
- 00:43:03would ask everyone to go back and look
- 00:43:05closely at that article look at the
- 00:43:08targeted companies that they went after
- 00:43:10and ask yourself who isn't on this list
- 00:43:12who isn't on the list that has class
- 00:43:15action lawsuit against them who isn't on
- 00:43:17this list that has uh you know product
- 00:43:19liability cases against them I think
- 00:43:21that's telling and you ought to take a
- 00:43:23look at it because it's certainly
- 00:43:25informative to me about who the the
- 00:43:28instigators are and perhaps who is
- 00:43:30behind that Tampa Bay Times article
- 00:43:32because it certainly isn't good
- 00:43:34journalism and we're going to continue
- 00:43:35to pursue this because we want the truth
- 00:43:38and the victims of bad information as
- 00:43:41published in the Tampa Bay times are the
- 00:43:43families because they have a right to
- 00:43:45know what the truth is and and obviously
- 00:43:48this is instigated by the trial
- 00:43:49attorneys who want to keep feeding this
- 00:43:51pipeline of disinformation about katom
- 00:43:54and then the other victim of it is the
- 00:43:55truth all of you may have heard I hope
- 00:43:58you have that the AKA sued the medical
- 00:44:01exam two medical examiners in Ohio for
- 00:44:03their claims that katum caused the death
- 00:44:06of a young man and when when we settled
- 00:44:09that case it was settled on the basis
- 00:44:11that these two medical examiners agreed
- 00:44:14now they their off-ramp was they said
- 00:44:15they reviewed new literature there is no
- 00:44:17new literature but that was their way
- 00:44:19they explained it so they then changed
- 00:44:21the cause of death from mogy
- 00:44:23intoxication to undetermined based on
- 00:44:26the fact that new literature contradicts
- 00:44:28the basis upon which they did it they
- 00:44:30didn't share with anyone that when they
- 00:44:32requested the talk screen from nms Labs
- 00:44:36the only thing in that Ohio case that
- 00:44:38they asked the nms labs to test for was
- 00:44:40mogy and then they said it was a mogy
- 00:44:43death this is what happens and the
- 00:44:45National Institutes on drug abuse
- 00:44:47scientist who appears in the one of the
- 00:44:49recent documentaries mysteries of katom
- 00:44:52and she's interviewed and she says this
- 00:44:53is one of the problems that we have
- 00:44:55where medical examiners don't have any
- 00:44:56stand standardized postmortem uh
- 00:44:58regulations about how you come to a
- 00:45:00conclusion about a death Carl Williams
- 00:45:03the former medical exam chief medical
- 00:45:04examiner in alagan County Pennsylvania
- 00:45:06recently retired castigated his fellow
- 00:45:09medical examiners for drawing
- 00:45:11conclusions that are not supported by
- 00:45:12scientific evidence uh this is the
- 00:45:15problem we have and there really needs
- 00:45:16to be a corrective action taken by the
- 00:45:19uh National Association of medical
- 00:45:21examiners to put into place the kind of
- 00:45:23standard postmortem methodology uh
- 00:45:25testing that is required that was in
- 00:45:28fact recommended by the Centers for
- 00:45:30Disease Control when they evaluated
- 00:45:32so-called reported deaths attributable
- 00:45:34to Crum submitted by medical examiners
- 00:45:37and coroners and they said there's no
- 00:45:40there's no consistency on this and there
- 00:45:42therefore there's no reliability that
- 00:45:44can be relied upon and yet yet when you
- 00:45:47look at the complaints filed by trial
- 00:45:49attorneys across the country what do
- 00:45:51they do they point to the CDC report
- 00:45:53they they they point to medical
- 00:45:55examiners drawing these conclusions they
- 00:45:57point to the FDA saying that katum is
- 00:45:59dangerous none of which is pass the
- 00:46:02rigorous scientific test requirements
- 00:46:04that you would think the good uh jurist
- 00:46:06Prudence is based on so I think that
- 00:46:09that uh is where we are so uh on the
- 00:46:11federal side we're going to revamp it we
- 00:46:13do have a a congressional briefing
- 00:46:16that's coming up on on Friday from uh
- 00:46:209:00 am. to 11: a.m. eastern time it
- 00:46:23will be live streamed on YouTube and you
- 00:46:25watch your emails or social media
- 00:46:27postings and you'll see how you can link
- 00:46:28to watch this we will have uh Dr Chris
- 00:46:32mcer from the University of Florida Dr
- 00:46:35Kirsten Smith from John's Hopkins
- 00:46:37University uh Dr Ed Boer from Ohio State
- 00:46:40University and a visiting Professor from
- 00:46:42Harvard Medical School and Dr Jack
- 00:46:44henningfield from Johns Hopkins
- 00:46:46University testifying and pre presenting
- 00:46:48an update on katum science and Nida
- 00:46:51director Dr Nora vco will be submitting
- 00:46:53written testimony because she's
- 00:46:55traveling on Friday and not available to
- 00:46:57attend in person we will also have some
- 00:47:00uh constituents katum consumers uh to
- 00:47:04that are specifically focused on the uh
- 00:47:07the sponsors the co-sponsors on the
- 00:47:09house side we will have a a represent
- 00:47:11Melody wolf from uh from Michigan uh and
- 00:47:14she's represented uh on by Congressman
- 00:47:17Jack Bergman and then Heidi sakur from
- 00:47:19Wisconsin represented represented by uh
- 00:47:22mark poan from Wisconsin uh and then
- 00:47:25we'll have some veteran represent the
- 00:47:27Forgotten not gone group The gries are
- 00:47:29going to testify and Michael kayitz
- 00:47:31who's from the veterans cannabis uh
- 00:47:34medical cannabis group and we think that
- 00:47:37this update is going to move the needle
- 00:47:39in preparing uh staff members and
- 00:47:41members of Congress for the revised
- 00:47:44Federal kcpa in
- 00:47:462025 uh we also have a very robust plan
- 00:47:50for uh federal or I'm sorry State
- 00:47:53legislation uh that will be coming up in
- 00:47:552025 we still have a couple of states
- 00:47:57that are outliers here at the end of the
- 00:47:59legislation legislative sessions uh we
- 00:48:01don't anticipate there'll be any great
- 00:48:02movement there but it's something that
- 00:48:04we hope for and but certainly sets the
- 00:48:07stage for 2025 I'm guessing we're going
- 00:48:09to be have nearly 30 states where we're
- 00:48:11going to be actively lobbying now this
- 00:48:14is a resource question and we have to
- 00:48:16rely upon you and upon vendors who are
- 00:48:19willing to contribute to our lobbying
- 00:48:21efforts in order to make sure that katum
- 00:48:23is legal in the states well regulated
- 00:48:26properly labed and restricted from
- 00:48:27minors so we may not be able to do
- 00:48:30everything we would like to do there's
- 00:48:31some additional issues that have Arisen
- 00:48:34uh one of which a commitment by the
- 00:48:35global katum Coalition that they're
- 00:48:37going to go back to the 13 states that
- 00:48:39have passed the katum consumer
- 00:48:40protection act and they're going to
- 00:48:42advocate in those States for what they
- 00:48:44call the druglike regulatory scheme as
- 00:48:46opposed to the self-regulatory scheme
- 00:48:49which is what we advocate for and which
- 00:48:50is in place at the federal and at State
- 00:48:52levels for dietary supplements uh we
- 00:48:55think that's a bad mistake but we may
- 00:48:57have to start defending that and that of
- 00:48:58course will drain resources away from
- 00:49:01what we think are positive efforts going
- 00:49:02forward we hope that the global Crum
- 00:49:04Coalition will reconsider uh what
- 00:49:06they're planning on doing because
- 00:49:08obviously that's something that uh that
- 00:49:10needs to be done uh but uh we'll we'll
- 00:49:14send out a a description of all of those
- 00:49:17states where we're going to be working
- 00:49:18The Usual Suspects are there uh but
- 00:49:20we're also going to be expanding our
- 00:49:22reach and so we're going to be active in
- 00:49:23this I can tell you that uh we're making
- 00:49:26great progress in working with members
- 00:49:29of the legislature and helping them
- 00:49:31understand the actual story about catom
- 00:49:34and and set aside the hyperbolic
- 00:49:36complaints of the Food and Drug
- 00:49:38Administration which are based on oh I
- 00:49:40don't know let's quote doors youir
- 00:49:41embarrassingly po evidence and data uh
- 00:49:44the the U the allies of the FDA that
- 00:49:47repeat what they say uh those are things
- 00:49:50that I think we we we're convincing
- 00:49:51legislators to see that right now there
- 00:49:54are three choices you can ban Crum
- 00:49:57and we see a new ban that was just
- 00:49:58proposed in the state of Washington and
- 00:50:00I spoke with the coordinator for the
- 00:50:03Department of Pharmacy that will be will
- 00:50:05be doing that today and he explained to
- 00:50:07me the process and so we've got some
- 00:50:08time to work on that he also
- 00:50:10acknowledged that that complaint was
- 00:50:11issued by an out of state party so it'll
- 00:50:13be interesting to see and eventually
- 00:50:15we'll know who that is but we're going
- 00:50:16to mount an effort to inform that Board
- 00:50:18of Pharmacy that the rulemaking is
- 00:50:20inappropriate we've got a great Champion
- 00:50:22identified in the state legislature
- 00:50:24there uh there was a previous ban effort
- 00:50:27in the state of Washington by Senator
- 00:50:28Honeycut who has retired then but even
- 00:50:30then when he proposed the ban uh he and
- 00:50:33I had a great conversation and uh and he
- 00:50:36acknowledged that he only did it because
- 00:50:38someone had asked him to that was a
- 00:50:39constituent and when he he heard the
- 00:50:40science he said that he would not pursue
- 00:50:42his bill and he kept his word uh and so
- 00:50:45today we have the opportunity for a kcpa
- 00:50:47in the state of Washington that will be
- 00:50:49one of the states that we're going to be
- 00:50:50working in uh and I'll give you another
- 00:50:52example in the state of Montana Montana
- 00:50:54meets every other year two years ago uh
- 00:50:57at the last couple of days of the
- 00:50:58session the Senate President Jason
- 00:51:00Ellsworth proposed a ban on katom and it
- 00:51:03it came out of the blue we had no idea
- 00:51:05he was going to do it he told me that he
- 00:51:06did it because of a request from a a
- 00:51:10local uh drug group and that he thought
- 00:51:12it was a good idea at the time and we
- 00:51:14had to Rally quickly it was expensive to
- 00:51:17do it but we managed over the weekend he
- 00:51:19proposed this on a Thursday night
- 00:51:21stucking in on a bill that was a
- 00:51:22must-pass bill and uh it got to the
- 00:51:24house on Monday and it was the feed 100
- 00:51:27to nothing uh I had the great
- 00:51:29opportunity to meet with uh president
- 00:51:31Ellsworth uh at a National Conference of
- 00:51:33state legislators leadership meeting uh
- 00:51:36two weeks ago and he's committed to be
- 00:51:37the sponsor for our kcpa uh so I think
- 00:51:40that we're moving the needle in helping
- 00:51:43people understand uh exactly where we
- 00:51:46are on this issue so uh we're going to
- 00:51:48be working hard on that one of the
- 00:51:50issues that we are trying to contend
- 00:51:53with right now is the threat that seven
- 00:51:56hydroxy metrine products offer to the
- 00:51:58katum industry and make no mistake uh a
- 00:52:01seven hydroxy metrogate product is not a
- 00:52:04Crum product it should not be labeled as
- 00:52:07a katum product and I am working hard in
- 00:52:10negotiations with representatives of the
- 00:52:1270 manufacturers to convince them to
- 00:52:15stand down from doing that um it it is
- 00:52:18unfair to the katum community and it's
- 00:52:21certainly they cannot justify from any
- 00:52:23product formulation standard that a 70
- 00:52:26product is is indeed a a Crum product
- 00:52:28and unless that product has a majority
- 00:52:31of the alkaloid content at metrogate as
- 00:52:33opposed to the metabolite 7oh uh then I
- 00:52:37think that that we're in real problems
- 00:52:38there now here's the conundrum we're in
- 00:52:41under federal law uh assuming you meet
- 00:52:44the other criteria for a dietary
- 00:52:45ingredient or dietary supplement uh you
- 00:52:48have to have a good faith belief in the
- 00:52:51science showing that your your product
- 00:52:54is safe under the conditions of use
- 00:52:57now there are many formulations of katom
- 00:53:00products on the market today that are
- 00:53:02only there because of that criteria uh
- 00:53:05if we were to take a position that the
- 00:53:07only products that should be allowed on
- 00:53:09the marketplace today under the federal
- 00:53:12Food Drug and cosmetic act are mogy
- 00:53:14based products and extracts that are
- 00:53:16properly extracted using FDA approved
- 00:53:19solvents to do so as recognized in the
- 00:53:22food drug and cosmetic act if we took
- 00:53:23that position we would eliminate all of
- 00:53:25a number of products including caum
- 00:53:28products along the way because the only
- 00:53:30way a caum product or a Cava caffeine
- 00:53:33product or a uh any other mixture of
- 00:53:36products that gets on the market is
- 00:53:38based on that standard at the federal
- 00:53:40level now my personal opinion is I would
- 00:53:43like to eliminate them uh completely but
- 00:53:45we can't do that without also putting
- 00:53:47all these other products at risk so we
- 00:53:50have to be consistent and I think that
- 00:53:52uh that our goal here would be to uh
- 00:53:56create create a legal environment at the
- 00:53:58state level under our kcpa where uh
- 00:54:02seven hydroxy mogen products cannot be
- 00:54:04identified as Craton products and then
- 00:54:06require them under a registration
- 00:54:09procedure for their products to give
- 00:54:10sworn statements that they have the
- 00:54:13requisite required uh basis for the safe
- 00:54:17use under the conditions of use which
- 00:54:19means that they would have to limit the
- 00:54:22amount of seven hydroxy mogen in any
- 00:54:25product that they man manufactur and
- 00:54:27then Market I think that's a step until
- 00:54:29we can get a federal uh review of this
- 00:54:32along the way and uh and so we're
- 00:54:34working towards that difficult at this
- 00:54:37point to see how that's going to play
- 00:54:38out uh our position at the at the
- 00:54:40American crom Association is clear
- 00:54:43despite the nonsense you hear from some
- 00:54:45of the detractors that were soft on 70
- 00:54:48we follow the law we're consistent we're
- 00:54:50consistent with those people that are
- 00:54:52making cocum products that are our
- 00:54:53biggest critic and I can tell you that
- 00:54:56they're M misstating the position that
- 00:54:58we have I've described that position
- 00:55:00clearly it may not be one Everyone likes
- 00:55:02because I I agree that 7oh is a
- 00:55:05dangerous product that needs to be
- 00:55:07regulated properly or or if they can't
- 00:55:10justify it needs to be banned but the
- 00:55:13same argument exists for those that are
- 00:55:14manufacturing products that are mixtures
- 00:55:17that uh require the same kind of data
- 00:55:20and scientific data uh many of you may
- 00:55:22have heard that the uh state of Utah has
- 00:55:25delisted I think n cadum products uh I
- 00:55:28can tell you that I had this discussion
- 00:55:31about mixture of products with JW Ross
- 00:55:33who is the chairman of the global katum
- 00:55:35Coalition several months ago uh and
- 00:55:38about this very issue about the the way
- 00:55:41that we wanted to frame regulatory
- 00:55:42language in a kcpa that would
- 00:55:45accommodate a cative mixture given the
- 00:55:48fact that there are critics out there
- 00:55:49including scientists who say that a caum
- 00:55:53mixture product is adulterated and the
- 00:55:55respon that I got from Mr Ross was that
- 00:55:58oh I have the signs I said well share it
- 00:56:00with me so that we can start to educate
- 00:56:03legislators about this so that they are
- 00:56:05comfortable with this and he said flatly
- 00:56:08no I won't give you that now when Utah
- 00:56:11uh delist these Kratom combination
- 00:56:14products the uh Matt low the executive
- 00:56:17director of the global Crum Coalition
- 00:56:19reached out to the American catom
- 00:56:21Association and ask us to join them in
- 00:56:23appealing the decision at the the Utah
- 00:56:26Department of Agriculture and Foods how
- 00:56:29can I do that I don't have the evidence
- 00:56:31and and they hotly denied me the
- 00:56:34opportunity to see that evidence and so
- 00:56:36the AK is not in a position to do that
- 00:56:39we we can't say we're we're following
- 00:56:41the science which we do religiously and
- 00:56:44then say but we don't care if there's no
- 00:56:46scientific evidence now there is an
- 00:56:48outlier here that's important and that
- 00:56:50is that a manufacturer of a uh Cava Crum
- 00:56:54mixture as an example and it's true for
- 00:56:56Cava and caffeine and CA and CBD and
- 00:56:58other things that uh you can have market
- 00:57:01experience data so if you don't have a
- 00:57:05peer- reviewed published article yet and
- 00:57:07say this let's theoretically say the
- 00:57:08science is ongoing uh if you can
- 00:57:11demonstrate long-term uh Market presence
- 00:57:14in the product formulation under the
- 00:57:16labeling that you have on your product
- 00:57:19and there's been no serious Adverse
- 00:57:20Events reported then you can go on the
- 00:57:23market uh and that if if the C grading
- 00:57:26group can do that great and I and I will
- 00:57:28join them on that level but if there's
- 00:57:30science behind it then they need to
- 00:57:32present that because we know that there
- 00:57:34is a significant body of peer-reviewed
- 00:57:36published literature on Cava itself
- 00:57:39showing or representing that there is a
- 00:57:41a safety risk associated with liver
- 00:57:43toxicity and there is an equal number of
- 00:57:45katum uh peer-reviewed scientific
- 00:57:48articles which make the same allegation
- 00:57:50and the combination of those two uh and
- 00:57:53whether there's an attenuating effect of
- 00:57:55those that creates a more dangerous
- 00:57:57substance is the unknown factor here
- 00:57:59that can only be answered with good
- 00:58:00science and with Market data and so I
- 00:58:02want to cooperate as best as the the AKA
- 00:58:05wants to cooperate as do I uh as best we
- 00:58:08can in order to promote these products
- 00:58:10on the marketplace assuming that they
- 00:58:11have this basis for Market entry so uh
- 00:58:14little work to be done on this thing and
- 00:58:15I know that there's a lot of contention
- 00:58:17along the way uh and I know that people
- 00:58:19are asking uh what is the relationship
- 00:58:23between the global catom Coalition and
- 00:58:25the American crat Association I'll
- 00:58:27answer this clearly for
- 00:58:28you the American katom Association uh
- 00:58:32wanted to work on the California katum
- 00:58:35bill we wanted it to be a
- 00:58:36kcpa the difference between the global
- 00:58:39katum Coalition and the American crom
- 00:58:42Association is our philosophical
- 00:58:44approach to what the regulatory model
- 00:58:46should be and you don't have to rely on
- 00:58:49my uh position on this the the global
- 00:58:52crom Coalition published a graphic which
- 00:58:55are criticized the American katum
- 00:58:58Association for adopting a
- 00:58:59self-regulatory scheme for dietary
- 00:59:02supplements and for katum as opposed to
- 00:59:05their more robust regulatory scheme
- 00:59:08which is a drug scheme regulation
- 00:59:10because that's the only difference that
- 00:59:12there is at the federal level and at the
- 00:59:14state level for regulating dietary
- 00:59:15supplements what I mean by that is and
- 00:59:18they they call it self-regulatory but
- 00:59:20that's a little bit of a misnomer what
- 00:59:21it means is that when you register a
- 00:59:23product either at the federal level or
- 00:59:25at the state level let's say
- 00:59:26theoretically under the katum consumer
- 00:59:28protection act you register your product
- 00:59:31and you then submit a uh a a laboratory
- 00:59:34certificate of analysis as the
- 00:59:36manufacturer showing that your product
- 00:59:38is compliant with the specific
- 00:59:40Provisions that govern the quality and
- 00:59:42the content of that Crum product then
- 00:59:44your labeling obviously has to comply
- 00:59:47with whatever the statute is and then
- 00:59:49you have the age restriction so at the
- 00:59:52federal level this is the way dietary
- 00:59:53supplements are regulated the FDA does
- 00:59:55not have an Army of people that go out
- 00:59:57and test every dietary supplement they
- 00:59:59don't go into stores and look to see
- 01:00:01whether or not the label on the product
- 01:00:03is done they rely upon as commissioner
- 01:00:06caleff recently testified about a month
- 01:00:08ago in Congress he said we're the police
- 01:00:10we act on complaints and so if there is
- 01:00:13a cluster of adverse event reports that
- 01:00:15are given on a specific rate in product
- 01:00:17then the FDA will act if they receive
- 01:00:20complaints about mislabeling or uh or
- 01:00:22illegal sales to miners they will react
- 01:00:25that is what called a self-regulatory
- 01:00:27model the other side of that is you have
- 01:00:29a drug-like regulatory scheme which is
- 01:00:31embodied in the uh the California bill
- 01:00:35that was that was advocated for by the
- 01:00:37global Crum Coalition uh that in my
- 01:00:40opinion limited competition drove out of
- 01:00:43the marketplace specific products but
- 01:00:46then more importantly it imposed a
- 01:00:48regulatory scheme that was so expensive
- 01:00:50to implement it required the California
- 01:00:53Department of Health to add hundreds of
- 01:00:56new staffers they had to create new
- 01:00:58laboratory spaces they had to hire
- 01:01:00Consultants to help them understand what
- 01:01:01the regulations had to be for katum
- 01:01:03because none of them knew a Crum was or
- 01:01:05is and so the cost of that program for
- 01:01:09uh for implementation as was presented
- 01:01:12by the California Senate Appropriations
- 01:01:15Committee staff based on input from the
- 01:01:18California Department of Health was
- 01:01:20significant millions and millions of
- 01:01:21dollars now they did not understand that
- 01:01:25there are only about 50 creative
- 01:01:27manufacturers who will meet the
- 01:01:29standards set forth for quality products
- 01:01:31that are properly labeled and age
- 01:01:33restricted that's the number after four
- 01:01:35years of experience in Utah that
- 01:01:37register there are 50 so if you it's
- 01:01:40simple math divide 50 and we hired an
- 01:01:42economist to do it because I was
- 01:01:43challenged by the global Crum coalition
- 01:01:45to justify it we hired an economist and
- 01:01:47The Economist did the math and said that
- 01:01:50if you assume 50 uh registrants and
- 01:01:53that's a tough lift by the way because
- 01:01:56the cost would be
- 01:01:58$111,000 per manufacturer in the first
- 01:02:00year and $83,000 a year thereafter that
- 01:02:03eliminates a significant number of
- 01:02:05midsized and even some of the large crat
- 01:02:07manufacturers and all the small ones
- 01:02:09because they can't afford those kinds of
- 01:02:10registration fees so if you have that
- 01:02:13situation how many would actually
- 01:02:15register it wouldn't be 50 because the
- 01:02:17cost is too high compared to Utah where
- 01:02:20the cost is
- 01:02:21$260 let me repeat that $260 per
- 01:02:24registration and as opposed to 113,000
- 01:02:27in the first year and 83,000 every year
- 01:02:30after that I can do that math they're
- 01:02:32you're pricing out of the marketplace
- 01:02:34except for a very few katum
- 01:02:37manufacturers that's the math that's the
- 01:02:40evidence and they the global Crum
- 01:02:42Coalition can squawk all they want about
- 01:02:44how they were misunderstood and all that
- 01:02:47in fact they're saying that the the
- 01:02:49reason that the uh that the California
- 01:02:51Bill AB
- 01:02:522365 was held in suspense was because
- 01:02:55because the the California Health
- 01:02:57Department didn't really want to accept
- 01:03:00that regulatory uh role that is not true
- 01:03:03I spoke to the California Health
- 01:03:05Department people they were perfectly
- 01:03:06willing to do it they they just wanted
- 01:03:08to have the money to do what the statute
- 01:03:10required so now I I understand that the
- 01:03:13global catom Coalition is going to have
- 01:03:15a modified Bill where they're going to
- 01:03:17have the Attorney General uh regulated
- 01:03:20and then they're going to contract out
- 01:03:22for the specific regulatory functions to
- 01:03:25determine whether the the applicants
- 01:03:27meet the specific requirements to
- 01:03:29unburden the uh the California Health
- 01:03:32Department from that obligation but the
- 01:03:34cost is going to be the same maybe even
- 01:03:36greater and you're still going to have
- 01:03:37the same impact on the marketplace
- 01:03:38you're still going to eliminate
- 01:03:40competitive products to the the primary
- 01:03:43product that gkc advocates for uh and
- 01:03:45you're going to have a lack of
- 01:03:47innovation you're going to eliminate
- 01:03:48Marketplace you're going to deprive
- 01:03:50consumers and you're going to drive
- 01:03:51prices through the roof in California
- 01:03:53that's not a consumer-friendly bill uh
- 01:03:56so we are prepared and we're ready to do
- 01:03:58it to have a katum consumer protection
- 01:04:01act proposed in California that adopts
- 01:04:03the responsible self-regulation model
- 01:04:06that really does work and it's modeled
- 01:04:08after the federal policy and after a
- 01:04:10policy that's working in the uh in the
- 01:04:13states and I have heard the global catom
- 01:04:16coalition's argument and you've all
- 01:04:18heard it too where where both Matthew
- 01:04:21low and and JW Ross say that the states
- 01:04:24are not affec itively regulating katum
- 01:04:27well kind of ironic that the state of
- 01:04:30Utah is regulating katum they don't like
- 01:04:32it because it regulated their product
- 01:04:35and they're squawking now but if the
- 01:04:37states aren't able to regulate and
- 01:04:39aren't regulating then why in the world
- 01:04:41are they now fighting back about their
- 01:04:43product being delisted in in Utah proves
- 01:04:46that the system is working doesn't it
- 01:04:48and it's not the only state where that
- 01:04:49kind of thing is happening uh we think
- 01:04:51it's an important step and the most
- 01:04:54important thing about a a um a state
- 01:04:56self-re regulation model as is embedded
- 01:04:59in the crat and consumer protection act
- 01:05:01and this was experienced in Utah is that
- 01:05:04you saw a significant Improvement in the
- 01:05:07kinds of products that are being
- 01:05:08marketed in the in the state and you're
- 01:05:12calling out the Bad actors and that's an
- 01:05:14important part of the regulation when
- 01:05:16it's implemented properly uh in the
- 01:05:18State uh so I think that that's our
- 01:05:21challenge going forward uh I tell you
- 01:05:23one interesting story that uh that adds
- 01:05:25to I think uh our optimism about next
- 01:05:28year many of you know that the state of
- 01:05:30Rhode Island the governor vetoed the
- 01:05:32katum consumer protection act I had the
- 01:05:34opportunity to meet with uh uh with the
- 01:05:36governor of Rhode Island last Friday uh
- 01:05:40he's a delightful individual uh he was
- 01:05:42candid with me about the reasons that he
- 01:05:44had actually vetoed the bill largely
- 01:05:46upon recommendations of close friends of
- 01:05:48him of his who are Physicians and he
- 01:05:50said to me if you can get those
- 01:05:53Physicians to accept what you're saying
- 01:05:55he said I'll sign that bill in a hurry
- 01:05:58and I said I'm never going to be able to
- 01:05:59convince those Physicians because
- 01:06:01they're following the misinformation of
- 01:06:03the FDA they're doing it in good faith
- 01:06:05but they actually trust the FDA when
- 01:06:07that trust is unfounded particularly
- 01:06:09when it results or is it relates to
- 01:06:11catom but I told him that the American
- 01:06:14Medical Association House of delegates
- 01:06:17considered a resolution proposed by the
- 01:06:19Mississippi uh Medical Association that
- 01:06:22would banrate him and instead of
- 01:06:24adopting that resolution the AMA adopted
- 01:06:27a a different resolution which said
- 01:06:29among other things catom should not be
- 01:06:31criminalized and people should have
- 01:06:32access to it and the governor said well
- 01:06:34if that's true give that to me and that
- 01:06:36changes the equation he invited us to
- 01:06:38work with his policy staff uh to make
- 01:06:41some appropriate changes in the bill and
- 01:06:43he thought that we were in a better
- 01:06:44position to see that bill sign next year
- 01:06:46I think that's great because this is a
- 01:06:48part of the process that we're working
- 01:06:49on uh and I think uh our efforts are
- 01:06:52targeted at building consumer
- 01:06:56access to katum products that's what you
- 01:06:58hear from the American katum Association
- 01:07:00you're not hearing from us the criticism
- 01:07:02about other products that are in the
- 01:07:03marketplace other than 70 which we think
- 01:07:05has to be regulated you're not hearing
- 01:07:07us complaining about product
- 01:07:09formulations I routinely get those
- 01:07:10complaints from some of the detractors
- 01:07:13here so I think that uh you people
- 01:07:15should judge uh the activity and the
- 01:07:18actions look at what's happening we're
- 01:07:20going to Indonesia at the American Crum
- 01:07:22Association bringing scientists to
- 01:07:24improve the relationship between
- 01:07:26Indonesian scientists and American
- 01:07:29scientists we invited and hosted a
- 01:07:31delegation of Indonesian scientists to
- 01:07:32the National Institutes on drug abuse
- 01:07:34Nora vco thanked us for doing that uh
- 01:07:37we're we're helping with an Aion uh task
- 01:07:40forceed on Crum that will bring together
- 01:07:43all of those countries in Asia we're
- 01:07:44working proactively we are going out to
- 01:07:46the states and advocating for the
- 01:07:48passage of the katum consumer protection
- 01:07:50act we're working with allies in that
- 01:07:53space and working and outreaching to you
- 01:07:56now the one thing we don't have is an
- 01:07:57unlimited amount of money uh and I know
- 01:08:00the global creative Coalition does and
- 01:08:02uh and that's that's a hard thing to
- 01:08:04compete against but I hope you'll look
- 01:08:06at what the success has been what our
- 01:08:09performance has been and where our
- 01:08:11activities are focused because we're
- 01:08:13about consumers and and we're going to
- 01:08:15continue to be that we're going to we're
- 01:08:17going to honor the trust that you put
- 01:08:18into us and we're going to continue to
- 01:08:20work hard on that so uh I'll stop there
- 01:08:22I'll go back to the questions because I
- 01:08:24know that there are here uh John asked
- 01:08:27about New Jersey and uh and he says his
- 01:08:30sister relies on for or pain uh
- 01:08:33we're making progress in New Jersey it
- 01:08:35is not easy uh because you have a bill
- 01:08:39that was put up by a member of the
- 01:08:41legislature to band Crum called CJ's law
- 01:08:44and there's a lot there that this
- 01:08:45representative has not known but he
- 01:08:47scheduled a meeting with me in a month
- 01:08:49and we're looking forward to that I
- 01:08:51think we're going to be uh better along
- 01:08:52the way um
- 01:08:56let's see Jeff is back at back in
- 01:08:58Indonesia I agree that the farmers
- 01:09:00should get at least some of the profit
- 01:09:02I've already explained I think
- 01:09:03appropriately what we need to do there
- 01:09:05um Anonymous attendee what reasons
- 01:09:07should I keep donating to the AKA and
- 01:09:10not gkc who seem more effective at
- 01:09:12engaging lawmakers that are staunchly
- 01:09:13against 70 products which are clear
- 01:09:15money
- 01:09:17grab it's not
- 01:09:19true uh you buy in to the narrative that
- 01:09:23the global crom coalition is selling
- 01:09:26that the uh the American katom
- 01:09:28Association is somehow soft on 7oh
- 01:09:30products and you are buying a lie uh and
- 01:09:33I can tell you that I'm not going to
- 01:09:35tell you that you shouldn't contribute
- 01:09:36to the global katom Coalition but I can
- 01:09:38tell you they don't need your money
- 01:09:39because they are funded almost entirely
- 01:09:42uh by the uh the the botanic tonics
- 01:09:45company uh but I can tell you the
- 01:09:47American catom Association has a diverse
- 01:09:50group of donors we have industry people
- 01:09:52that support us many many many
- 01:09:55uh the global cring Coalition has been
- 01:09:57in business for a year and a half or two
- 01:09:59years and they have few uh supporters on
- 01:10:02that level uh they they spread their
- 01:10:04money out widely I get that uh we we
- 01:10:07honor our uh donors by fighting hard for
- 01:10:12you and we're going to continue to do
- 01:10:14that and we hope you we honor that and
- 01:10:16we Merit your trust and um the the
- 01:10:19global crme Coalition is what it is and
- 01:10:21they're going to continue to fight the
- 01:10:23battles I can tell you that if you adopt
- 01:10:26the regulatory model that the global
- 01:10:27Crum Coalition is advocating for you
- 01:10:30will have fewer products on the market
- 01:10:32higher prices less innovation in the
- 01:10:34marketplace and you will not have the
- 01:10:36kind array of products that are
- 01:10:38currently available today and I'm
- 01:10:40talking about safely manufactured and
- 01:10:43produced extract products which are
- 01:10:45recognized as being safe as all extract
- 01:10:48dietary supplement products are if the
- 01:10:50conditions of the manufacturer of those
- 01:10:52products are met and that's the only way
- 01:10:55that operate because we put those uh
- 01:10:57those restrictions on how you can
- 01:10:59extract uh Crum uh raw materials into
- 01:11:02extract products the argument for
- 01:11:05extracts by those who use them and
- 01:11:07they're popular is because they clear
- 01:11:10out all the microbial load there is a
- 01:11:11standardized dose there's no question
- 01:11:13about what levels of mogy that you're
- 01:11:15getting and that they uh depending on
- 01:11:18some of the products they're more
- 01:11:19bioavailable I respect consumers in this
- 01:11:21area I I see both sides of it and I'm
- 01:11:24not going to down and say we want to
- 01:11:26exclude one segment of the marketplace
- 01:11:28just because it's a competitor to
- 01:11:30another company however big that company
- 01:11:32may be or how a big a footprint they
- 01:11:34have we're just not going to do that um
- 01:11:37along the way uh can you weigh in on the
- 01:11:39Bloomberg article that just came out uh
- 01:11:42stating the FDA study finds capsule safe
- 01:11:45well the the Bloomberg article wasn't
- 01:11:47completely accurate what that study did
- 01:11:48the FDA dose finding study uh was
- 01:11:51conducted with 40 human subjects
- 01:11:53designed to see whether or not there the
- 01:11:55Crum could be safely consumed by humans
- 01:11:57so that the FDA could then conduct a
- 01:11:59human abuse potential study make no
- 01:12:02mistake the FDA did not intend to ever
- 01:12:03do a human abuse potential study because
- 01:12:05they believed and and the clinicians
- 01:12:08involved in this study reported to me
- 01:12:10that the FDA uh people that designed the
- 01:12:12study said we're not going to get to uh
- 01:12:15the levels that uh that would
- 01:12:17demonstrate uh the safety to in order to
- 01:12:19Dem to go to a human abuse potential
- 01:12:21study you're going to see serious
- 01:12:23Adverse Events at six day grams they
- 01:12:25started 1 G they kept escalating it they
- 01:12:27got to uh the 6 to 8 G 8 to 10 G they
- 01:12:31got to 12 G uh in a consumed in a 5
- 01:12:35minute period which means 24 large
- 01:12:37capsules of crat material and they
- 01:12:40observed uh nausea in some of the human
- 01:12:43subjects both in the the placebo group
- 01:12:46and the Crum group meaning that when you
- 01:12:49consume that amount of material plant
- 01:12:51material in a 5-minute period it's going
- 01:12:53to make you nauseous that all it did and
- 01:12:55the FDA then decided their their
- 01:12:57scientific team decided to stop the
- 01:13:00study because and this is important no
- 01:13:03serious side events were observed I made
- 01:13:06this very point to a Bloomberg reporter
- 01:13:08today in an interview uh that article
- 01:13:10was a little bit tainted because they
- 01:13:12said oh it didn't include the uh the
- 01:13:15liquid products and that kind of thing
- 01:13:17the bias is clear uh and I can tell you
- 01:13:19that uh that the truth is going to
- 01:13:21emerge here because the FDA study is now
- 01:13:25getting they promised they're going to
- 01:13:27publish it we obviously have the data
- 01:13:28that was presented at a recent
- 01:13:30scientific conference I'm looking
- 01:13:31forward to that publication it'll be
- 01:13:33telling if they don't publish it because
- 01:13:34it might tell you a lot about what's
- 01:13:35going on um Lindsay asked why is the FDA
- 01:13:38trying to get Crum off the shelves they
- 01:13:40hate all dietary supplements they hate
- 01:13:41Botanical products they don't want them
- 01:13:43on the marketplace they want them to be
- 01:13:45new drugs and it's not just katom it's
- 01:13:47many things they they abuse their powers
- 01:13:50with catom there is one individual in
- 01:13:52the high levels of the sea Suite of the
- 01:13:54commission
- 01:13:55who is antium and until he dies retires
- 01:13:59or gets hired and goes off somewhere uh
- 01:14:02we're stuck with him and so we're going
- 01:14:04to have to fight this battle at the
- 01:14:05legislative level hopefully commissioner
- 01:14:08Cale will see the light I've requested
- 01:14:10through a letter to him last week that
- 01:14:12he convene a stakeholders meeting so
- 01:14:14that we can have a public examination of
- 01:14:17what the true science on katum is and
- 01:14:18what the bright public policy ought to
- 01:14:20be we'll see if he he bites on that um
- 01:14:23Lindsay ask is the seven hydroxy Ming
- 01:14:25more psychoactive part of the Crum Leaf
- 01:14:27first off seven seven hydroxy metrine
- 01:14:30does have a psychoactive effect on the
- 01:14:32MU opioid receptors in fact it binds
- 01:14:35completely and tightly to The muop
- 01:14:37receptors where Crum mogy does not mogy
- 01:14:40has what's called a partial Agonist
- 01:14:42effect which means it goes to that
- 01:14:44sector of The muop receptors in the
- 01:14:46brain that controls pain so it gives the
- 01:14:49analgesic effect and then has an anergic
- 01:14:52aner I can't even say it anergic effects
- 01:14:55uh that are helpful for people in terms
- 01:14:57of mood elevation and that kind of thing
- 01:14:59it doesn't give you the euphoric high
- 01:15:01and it doesn't go to your respiratory
- 01:15:02system where 7oh it appears based on
- 01:15:05scientific evidence likely does and so
- 01:15:08it needs to be examined and treated
- 01:15:09differently uh it is a metabolite not a
- 01:15:12constituent alkaloid of the of the katum
- 01:15:15plant which is why I think the important
- 01:15:17legal distinction is that seven hydroxy
- 01:15:20hydroxy seven hydroxy mogen products are
- 01:15:22not Crum and that's what we want to
- 01:15:25accomplish in some of this um Lloyd ask
- 01:15:28is there any legislations coming up in
- 01:15:29South Dakota you know of uh it was sheld
- 01:15:32a couple of years ago I've been assured
- 01:15:34by legislators there there's not going
- 01:15:35to be any activity on katum uh it's not
- 01:15:38on our priority list in terms of funding
- 01:15:41priorities I can tell you though that
- 01:15:43there have been states where we have not
- 01:15:45had to hire a single lobbyist uh and yet
- 01:15:48we've seen activity positive activity
- 01:15:50including passage of the kcpa so uh if
- 01:15:54you are a a
- 01:15:55uh Advocate and you want to be our
- 01:15:57citizen lobbyist then contact us and
- 01:15:59we'll talk about that I think it's uh uh
- 01:16:02it's important Brian says isn't it true
- 01:16:04that the Hors is out of the barn on 708
- 01:16:07products and consumers are demanding
- 01:16:08access 70 products that now have a
- 01:16:10fouryear track record of seven 70 safety
- 01:16:14yes uh but that doesn't uh negate the
- 01:16:18responsibility of the 7oh manufacturers
- 01:16:22to meet the conditions of use which
- 01:16:24means labeling
- 01:16:25and demonstrate their safety there are
- 01:16:2770 products that are on the marketplace
- 01:16:29today that are Vape products now there's
- 01:16:32something wrong with that there are 70
- 01:16:33products that are outlandishly marketed
- 01:16:36appealing to children and so know 70 can
- 01:16:39make their argument but they've got to
- 01:16:40be responsible too and if they want to
- 01:16:42be on the marketplace prove that they're
- 01:16:44uh by the science that they should be
- 01:16:46there and by the standards under the law
- 01:16:48and self-regulate let's see a seven
- 01:16:50hydroxy bill because we're going to
- 01:16:52include it in our in our kcpa in 20 2
- 01:16:56and I would love to have a section there
- 01:16:58that requires 70 to responsibly regulate
- 01:17:01their products as 70 products not
- 01:17:03creatum and they have to meet the
- 01:17:04similar standards that we require of
- 01:17:06creatum
- 01:17:07Manufacturers U I think I've answered
- 01:17:10the Washington State if I didn't and I
- 01:17:12apologize if I didn't it's the start of
- 01:17:14a process I've engaged with their people
- 01:17:16this morning and uh we're going to be on
- 01:17:18top of this it is a very
- 01:17:20preliminary uh operation right now
- 01:17:23recommended and a petition
- 01:17:25which under the law they can do from an
- 01:17:26out ofate person and we have faced this
- 01:17:29in Virginia in Ohio in Nevada many
- 01:17:32states and we've beaten it and we're
- 01:17:34going to continue we're going to be
- 01:17:35there guns blazing on this issue as well
- 01:17:40um the Washington Champion I'm going to
- 01:17:42defer on telling uh uh who that
- 01:17:45individual is because I don't have his
- 01:17:46authorization to say you asked me if I
- 01:17:49Marvin asked if I've spoken with
- 01:17:50Ferguson I have not loved to have a
- 01:17:52contact there so if Marvin you'll
- 01:17:54contact me send me email that'd be great
- 01:17:55it's mhad american.org uh Peter asked I
- 01:17:59live in an area where the kcp has begun
- 01:18:01uh so on some level the regulation sh up
- 01:18:03but I'm still in fear of someone passing
- 01:18:05away uh from katum in their system and
- 01:18:07my shop getting hit with an eight figure
- 01:18:09wrongful death lawsuit because of the
- 01:18:10climate of the issue how is a shop owner
- 01:18:13can I protect myself from lawsuits
- 01:18:14associated with the sale catom with
- 01:18:16customers having to sign a waiver be a
- 01:18:18step too far or a good way to protect
- 01:18:19myself and employees you need to talk to
- 01:18:21an attorney about some of this I can
- 01:18:24tell you that the defense uh on on a
- 01:18:27Crum uh product liabilities lawsuit is
- 01:18:30make sure you're selling Crum products
- 01:18:31that are properly labeled make sure that
- 01:18:33the product liability that's associated
- 01:18:35with that uh are that you're protected
- 01:18:38by making sure that those products are
- 01:18:40defensible now that doesn't protect you
- 01:18:43100% from product liability suit but you
- 01:18:45your defenses have to be a good faith
- 01:18:47good notice uh and that you're following
- 01:18:50the law and I think that you'll be there
- 01:18:52but certainly talk to an attorney about
- 01:18:55uh how you how you might be able to do
- 01:18:56it we're going to hold a uh a panel
- 01:18:59discussion at an upcoming Leadership
- 01:19:02Summit in November in Providence Rhode
- 01:19:04Island where we're going to talk about
- 01:19:06how you can shrink the Target on for a
- 01:19:09product liability suit for vendors and I
- 01:19:11think we should address this for uh
- 01:19:13Distributors and retail outlets as well
- 01:19:15as well so uh hopefully we can get that
- 01:19:17uh seminar and maybe be able to
- 01:19:18circulate it after the uh uh the the
- 01:19:21Leadership Summit is uh is completed uh
- 01:19:25Nicholas asked the katum legalization in
- 01:19:27bill in Wisconsin appears had enough
- 01:19:28support in assembly this last year but
- 01:19:30it wasn't brought to the floor to vote
- 01:19:32any idea if they're going to bring it
- 01:19:33forward next year do you know why they
- 01:19:35never brought it forward this year I do
- 01:19:37uh the uh the Speaker of the House Robin
- 01:19:40Voss expressed his strong support for
- 01:19:44the katum consumer protection act uh he
- 01:19:46insisted that the Controlled Substances
- 01:19:49board provide a report to the
- 01:19:51legislature about whether or not katum
- 01:19:53meets the eight factors which mirror the
- 01:19:55federal statute and the controlled sub
- 01:19:57board did that and they said it doesn't
- 01:20:00they said but we don't think it should
- 01:20:01be unregulated meaning that they needs
- 01:20:03regulation and so the uh speaker was
- 01:20:05ready to proceed and the Democrats came
- 01:20:07to the floor and said knowing how
- 01:20:08important it was to speaker Voss and
- 01:20:11they said okay if we're going to do this
- 01:20:12we want you to give us some election
- 01:20:13reform concessions and the horse trading
- 01:20:16failed at that level we're hopeful we're
- 01:20:18back at it uh here in uh January and um
- 01:20:22and that's the uh the bottom line on it
- 01:20:25I'll keep you posted as we go forward in
- 01:20:26Wisconsin uh they're good people in
- 01:20:29Wisconsin and and the legislature
- 01:20:31probably would have passed it hard to
- 01:20:33tell until you get a final vote but uh
- 01:20:35we were optimistic that was going to
- 01:20:37happen except for the the battle that
- 01:20:39went forth on a political issue on
- 01:20:41Election reform which Didn't Do It
- 01:20:44um Jordan gives an endorsement for the
- 01:20:47AKA thank you um uh and I think you make
- 01:20:51the right Point there's no point to
- 01:20:52picking fights among a group of people
- 01:20:54that should be aligned in the same thing
- 01:20:57and I can tell you the AKA ain't picked
- 01:20:58no fights uh we have been attacked
- 01:21:01vilified because of our so-called
- 01:21:03failures uh you can judge on what we've
- 01:21:06done we've worked hard to do it we have
- 01:21:07a team of people that are terrific and
- 01:21:10we we try to work with Advocates as best
- 01:21:12we can in order to make this happen um
- 01:21:15any news about Arkansas Marshall Price's
- 01:21:17lawsuit was filed that's great news uh
- 01:21:20Arkansas uh is is convening a hearing uh
- 01:21:24in interim Committee hearing before the
- 01:21:26uh interim health committee and uh that
- 01:21:29will take place in in early October and
- 01:21:33uh we're going to have a team of
- 01:21:35Specialists this is going to be a
- 01:21:36presentation on the science uh and the
- 01:21:39policy issues it's not going to be an
- 01:21:41opportunity for a lot of consumer input
- 01:21:43but we'll announce that and let you have
- 01:21:45the opportunity to obviously observe and
- 01:21:47uh and and and participate if it's
- 01:21:50appropriate they're not giving us a lot
- 01:21:52of time but this is a an informational
- 01:21:55hearing that will then set the stage for
- 01:21:56the filing of the kcpa uh in no in
- 01:22:00January in
- 01:22:02Arkansas in Illinois Michael thank you
- 01:22:04for the question uh just had a meeting
- 01:22:07with the Illinois Department of Health
- 01:22:09it was a great meeting uh they candidly
- 01:22:11said that they're not sure they're the
- 01:22:13right regulatory body and they asked us
- 01:22:15to look at the Department of Revenue and
- 01:22:17the Department of Agriculture Because
- 01:22:19unless the product is contaminated with
- 01:22:21salmoni coli or something like that they
- 01:22:24don't have any Authority at the
- 01:22:25Department of Health to remove a product
- 01:22:26from commercial shelves so we're going
- 01:22:29to take that to heart and we've uh we're
- 01:22:32going to uh talk with those other
- 01:22:34agencies about taking it on but I can
- 01:22:36tell you that that uh assistant majority
- 01:22:39floor leader Evans is a champion he was
- 01:22:42on the call with us and he talked about
- 01:22:44how important it was to protect his cons
- 01:22:46his constituents and he's a marvelous
- 01:22:49leader so we're grateful uh for him um
- 01:22:54the Peter ask is there been any
- 01:22:56meaningful updates on the hap study as
- 01:22:58it gone or as it begun so they they the
- 01:23:01FDA did uh theoretically uh bid out the
- 01:23:05human abuse potential study and I think
- 01:23:06they have that done now they're in the
- 01:23:08process of determining what the protocol
- 01:23:10for the study is uh they have to be
- 01:23:12careful because they know we're watching
- 01:23:15uh and if they come out with a protocol
- 01:23:16that tilts that puts their thumb on the
- 01:23:18scale or their foot on the scale uh on
- 01:23:21this then we're going to be careful we
- 01:23:22have lots of scientists who know this
- 01:23:24issue
- 01:23:25uh so I think they're being careful and
- 01:23:27uh it has not yet begun but we'll know
- 01:23:30when it does and we'll keep you updated
- 01:23:32on it we're going to watch that one
- 01:23:33closely because it's not that we
- 01:23:36distrust the FDA uh but President Reagan
- 01:23:39said it right we trust but verify and
- 01:23:41we're going to make sure that we verify
- 01:23:43as best we can everything that we can do
- 01:23:45to make sure that they're playing fair
- 01:23:47and balls and Strikes so uh we'll
- 01:23:49continue to work on that uh doing our
- 01:23:52best to to take care of that
- 01:23:55so uh I think that's the end of the uh
- 01:23:58um the the questions uh I'll give you
- 01:24:02one last chance maybe you got a burning
- 01:24:03question you can answer it and while
- 01:24:05you're thinking about it uh let me just
- 01:24:07say something and I know I know it's
- 01:24:10it's difficult when it's like any family
- 01:24:12when you have a a fight going on among
- 01:24:15family members there's tension and and I
- 01:24:18hate this tension that exists between
- 01:24:20the global katum Coalition and the
- 01:24:22American katum Coalition because I
- 01:24:23envisioned a Cooperative effort together
- 01:24:27uh and I can tell you unequivocally we
- 01:24:30have not picked this fight uh but we're
- 01:24:32not going to knuckle under to demands
- 01:24:34that are made by groups that by any
- 01:24:36group including the global credum
- 01:24:37Coalition where they're inconsistent
- 01:24:39with our mission and that they favor one
- 01:24:42product over another or they favor a a
- 01:24:45non-competitive Marketplace uh that is
- 01:24:48unjustified based on the science and the
- 01:24:51conditions in the marketplace because my
- 01:24:53belief and it's one that the board of
- 01:24:55the American creatum Association
- 01:24:56heartily endorses is that we should bend
- 01:24:59over backwards to give consumers as many
- 01:25:02choices as they can of safe properly
- 01:25:05regulated properly labeled products so
- 01:25:07that they can decide and do not let some
- 01:25:11bureaucrat decide and for goodness sake
- 01:25:13don't let some competitor in the
- 01:25:14marketplace who has a dominant marketing
- 01:25:16position and a lot of money to throw
- 01:25:18around and a personal philosophy about
- 01:25:20what the product should look like
- 01:25:21determine what you get to choose in
- 01:25:23terms of product that you want to
- 01:25:25purchase and use for your health and
- 01:25:26well-being I want to bend an air on the
- 01:25:29side of of giving you that opportunity
- 01:25:31as long as they meet those conditions
- 01:25:33that I outlined uh so I think that uh
- 01:25:36that's our goal and and like any family
- 01:25:38we can make up I hope we can uh but it's
- 01:25:41going to be a Fair makeup not just on
- 01:25:43conditions uh that are simply designed
- 01:25:46to get a settlement as opposed to coming
- 01:25:48to a fair conclusion particularly one
- 01:25:50that protects consumers and so uh I
- 01:25:53pledge to you and I've been instructed
- 01:25:56by the board to make sure that we
- 01:25:57deliver on this promise that what we do
- 01:26:00in good faith is going to be to protect
- 01:26:03the marketplace for consumers not for
- 01:26:06individual companies that compete uh we
- 01:26:08look forward to that there are companies
- 01:26:10in the marketplace today that I think
- 01:26:14are great companies they're not members
- 01:26:16of the GMP program uh in uh in our the
- 01:26:20AK program we wish they would be we wish
- 01:26:23everyone would jump on that because we
- 01:26:24think that's a good consumer safety
- 01:26:25mechanism uh they make good products uh
- 01:26:28they don't necessarily agree with our
- 01:26:30regulatory philosophy but they're still
- 01:26:31good companies and they're good people
- 01:26:33along the way and some of them are on
- 01:26:35this call tonight and I hope they
- 01:26:36understand that my commitment and the
- 01:26:39aka's commitment is to protect that
- 01:26:41Marketplace for you as well uh we
- 01:26:43encourage voluntary compliance with the
- 01:26:45GMP program but we don't require it as a
- 01:26:47basis for being uh a an
- 01:26:50AKA company we're not going to vilify
- 01:26:53you we're not going to Target you uh we
- 01:26:55want this to be a Marketplace that
- 01:26:57benefits consumers across the board so
- 01:27:00uh I think that's uh the best way I can
- 01:27:02say it uh I'll end with uh just the the
- 01:27:07rec recapitulation about things that you
- 01:27:09should be looking at uh we're going to
- 01:27:11keep you updated on the Indonesian
- 01:27:12situation it's complicated and there are
- 01:27:15things that we're working on right now
- 01:27:17uh we have a meeting with a bunch of
- 01:27:18vendors tomorrow prior to the
- 01:27:20Congressional briefing on Saturday where
- 01:27:22we're going to be talking about this and
- 01:27:23developing Strate IES uh we'll do the
- 01:27:25best we can to keep up with that uh
- 01:27:27we'll have the Congressional briefing
- 01:27:29not only live streamed uh on Friday but
- 01:27:32also will record it so that you can
- 01:27:34watch it later I think that'll be
- 01:27:36fascinating uh we're going to update you
- 01:27:39on new regulatory challenges on the fy2
- 01:27:43not FY it's the
- 01:27:442025 uh katum consumer protection act
- 01:27:47program uh we'll have another webinar
- 01:27:49that goes into more detail in the states
- 01:27:50and keep you updated uh we'll let you
- 01:27:52know about the upcoming events that are
- 01:27:54coming up with the hearings in various
- 01:27:56States and we'll make sure you're
- 01:27:58updated on how we do in Washington state
- 01:28:00as we proceed with informing them about
- 01:28:04these issues and then the last thing
- 01:28:05I'll tell you and this is the hardest
- 01:28:07part and it kills me in many ways is
- 01:28:10that we see the uh the disinformation
- 01:28:13campaign being effectively disseminated
- 01:28:16by the FDA using their new surrogates
- 01:28:19which are local governments local police
- 01:28:21officials these uh uh these these
- 01:28:24addiction recovery center people who
- 01:28:26have invested financial interest in
- 01:28:28trying to do local bands we do as as
- 01:28:31much as we can to fight back against
- 01:28:33those bands when I'm available I go
- 01:28:35there uh and testify directly uh we we
- 01:28:38put our resources into it we send a
- 01:28:40packet of material in every case we're
- 01:28:42we're not winning that battle uh because
- 01:28:45we still see more and more of these
- 01:28:46things pop up we're going to continue to
- 01:28:48fight we need the help of the local
- 01:28:50constituents in those areas because
- 01:28:53inevitably the complaint they get is
- 01:28:55well who are you from Virginia to come
- 01:28:57and talk to us and who are these
- 01:28:59constituents that live outside of our
- 01:29:01jurisdiction it's not a fair kind of of
- 01:29:05uh criticism by the way because they're
- 01:29:08imposing a regulation that doesn't just
- 01:29:10impact the citizens in their
- 01:29:11jurisdiction it has the effect of
- 01:29:14influencing other communities and so
- 01:29:16they ought to be more responsible the
- 01:29:17way they do it but we need your help
- 01:29:18we're going to continue to work to earn
- 01:29:20that trust and inform you as best we can
- 01:29:23about how things are going and uh we're
- 01:29:25going to continue to work it lots of
- 01:29:26challenges Facebook social media with
- 01:29:29their current nonsense where they're
- 01:29:30trying to to you know when you try to
- 01:29:32search for Crum things they say it's a
- 01:29:34drug and you should be concerned about
- 01:29:35it uh that's all FDA nonsense and we're
- 01:29:38fighting back uh with them as well so
- 01:29:40lots of fires to put out but lots of
- 01:29:43willing hands to do it and and there
- 01:29:45can't be a better group than the the
- 01:29:47foxel that we occupy with you uh in in
- 01:29:51taking this fight to those people that
- 01:29:53are anti rum uh so thank you for all the
- 01:29:55work that you do and uh we'll schedule
- 01:29:58another webinar here shortly before the
- 01:30:00beginning of the new legislative session
- 01:30:02to bring you up to date on things so
- 01:30:03thanks everyone for joining us and we
- 01:30:05appreciate it very much
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