TEDMED Great Challenges: Improving Medical Communication
Summary
TLDRThis Ted Meds live event discusses the complex challenge of improving communication in health care. Given the importance of such communication for diagnosis, treatment adherence, and error prevention, experts gathered to exchange ideas across disciplines. While technology offers tools for better data capture and education, the human aspect remains crucial. The event highlighted barriers like time constraints and cultural differences that impact communication, stressing the need for clear, non-technical language and for equipping patients with the right questions. Building trust and understanding through informed dialogue was emphasized as essential for optimal patient care.
Takeaways
- 🎙️ Effective communication is crucial for healthcare success.
- 📱 Technology aids but does not replace human interaction.
- 🤝 Building trust in doctor-patient relationships is essential.
- 🕒 Time constraints are a major barrier to communication.
- 🌍 Cultural differences affect patient-clinician interactions.
- 📚 Equip patients with the right questions for better care.
- 👨⚕️ Clinicians should use non-technical language.
- 🔄 Signposting in conversations helps manage expectations.
- 💡 Patients with more information can feel more empowered.
- 🔍 Transparency and privacy in patient data handling must be maintained.
Timeline
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
Emily Paulson welcomes viewers to a Ted Med event on improving medical communications. It includes experts discussing patient-clinician communication's critical impact on healthcare outcomes. The event is interactive, encouraging questions via social media.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Experts, including Dr. Robert M Arnold and John Cox, discuss medical communication challenges. They emphasize understanding from the patient's viewpoint and cultural impacts on communication.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Dr. Arnold and Dr. Selma Call discuss patient perspectives influenced by culture and personal experience. They highlight the importance of a non-judgmental approach to foster patient comfort.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
John Cox and Barbara Kara discuss the healthcare system's role in communication. Cox highlights patient engagement importance while Kara emphasizes patient preparation for consultations to maximize time.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
The panel discusses patient empowerment and the healthcare system's responsibility in educating patients. Dr. Arnold emphasizes trusting healthcare providers over expecting patients to act like doctors.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
Communication strategies in medical education are discussed with a focus on patient relationships. The impact of social media on patient engagement and the need for healthcare systems to adapt is highlighted.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
The role of technology and email in patient communication is debated. Experts express the need for balance to ensure technology aids rather than hinders personal interaction.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Dr. Arnold and Dr. Call discuss the nuances of shared decision-making in medical care. Different cultural expectations and communication styles between patients and physicians are explored.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
Experts stress simplicity in medical explanations to patients. They address the challenges high information volume presents, urging trust and reliable sources in patient research.
- 00:45:00 - 00:50:00
Panelists discuss methods to solicit patient questions effectively during medical consultations. Emotional connection and active listening are highlighted as crucial for patient satisfaction.
- 00:50:00 - 00:55:00
The role of social media and peer-reviewed content in providing reliable medical information is debated. The conversation touches on balancing information accessibility with quality control.
- 00:55:00 - 01:03:02
As the event concludes, the necessity for ongoing communication improvement in healthcare is emphasized. Trust, privacy, and technology's role in modern medical practices are underscored.
Mind Map
Video Q&A
What is the purpose of the Ted Meds live event?
The event focuses on improving medical communication.
Who sponsors the Great Challenges program?
The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation sponsors it.
Why is effective communication important in healthcare?
It leads to faster diagnosis, better treatment adherence, fewer errors, and better care coordination.
What impact do patients having more information from the internet have on healthcare?
It can empower patients but may also overwhelm or misinform them.
How can technology aid medical communication?
By providing tools for better data capture and patient education.
What role does culture play in medical communication?
Culture can influence patient expectations and perceptions of doctor-patient interactions.
What are some common barriers to effective medical communication?
Time constraints and language barriers can prevent effective communication.
What approaches are suggested to overcome communication barriers?
Signposting conversations, using non-technical language, and involving health educators.
Do mobile technologies help in medical environments?
Yes, they can provide valuable tools but should not replace human interactions.
How can clinicians better engage with patients?
By being present, making eye contact, and ensuring understanding of patient concerns.
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- 00:00:01hello and welcome to Ted Ted meds live
- 00:00:04event focusing on the great challenge of
- 00:00:06improving medical Communications I'm
- 00:00:09Emily Paulson and I'm moderating today's
- 00:00:11discussion which will run about an hour
- 00:00:14the session is part of the Great
- 00:00:16challenges program sponsored by the
- 00:00:18Robert Wood Johnson Foundation the goal
- 00:00:21of the great challenges program is to
- 00:00:23look at 20 20 of the most complex
- 00:00:25problems in health and Medicine issues
- 00:00:28that can't be solved with a bullet or a
- 00:00:32one shot cure or policy our mission then
- 00:00:35is not to solve these issues but to
- 00:00:37share ideas from many disciplines to
- 00:00:40reach a better understanding than we had
- 00:00:42before we'll be taking questions from
- 00:00:45viewers on Google Hangout Facebook and
- 00:00:48Twitter you can tweet your questions to
- 00:00:51tedmed just tag them with hash great
- 00:00:55challenges one word and we'll try to get
- 00:00:58to them as I mentioned my name is Emily
- 00:01:01Paulson and Ted Med has asked me to
- 00:01:03moderate today's event I'm a writer and
- 00:01:06editor focusing on Health Care topics
- 00:01:09such as patient engagement health
- 00:01:12literacy patient
- 00:01:14education health information technology
- 00:01:17and quality
- 00:01:18improvement today we're delighted to
- 00:01:20welcome a great team of experts who make
- 00:01:23up our challenge team and they're going
- 00:01:25to discuss this topic our experts are Dr
- 00:01:30Robert M Arnold he's a professor at the
- 00:01:33University of Pittsburgh he has
- 00:01:35published on end of Life Care Hospice
- 00:01:38and paliative care doctor of patient
- 00:01:40communication and ethics education he
- 00:01:43currently focuses on educational
- 00:01:45interventions to improve communication
- 00:01:48in life limiting
- 00:01:50illnesses John Cox is president and CEO
- 00:01:54of visible Health a company that
- 00:01:57develops web-based and mobile products
- 00:01:59to help patients better understand their
- 00:02:01medical conditions and treatment options
- 00:02:04and to work more collaboratively with
- 00:02:06their Physicians and other Healthcare
- 00:02:09Providers Dr John fedar is founder and
- 00:02:12director of the center for connected
- 00:02:14Health at Partners Healthcare he's
- 00:02:17creating a new model of Health Care
- 00:02:19delivery developing Innovative
- 00:02:21strategies to move care from the
- 00:02:23hospital or the doctor's office into the
- 00:02:26day-to-day lives of
- 00:02:28patients Barbara Cara is an
- 00:02:31award-winning broadcast journalist
- 00:02:33featured writer for The Huffington Post
- 00:02:36Health educator and health advisor her
- 00:02:39website healthin 30.com provides
- 00:02:42consumers relevant jargon-free health
- 00:02:44information she is also a registered
- 00:02:47nurse and a leading nurse voice in
- 00:02:50health Dr Selma call is a applied
- 00:02:54developmental psychologist and a
- 00:02:57research scientist at child Trends her
- 00:02:59current work examines the reproductive
- 00:03:01Health behaviors of young adults partic
- 00:03:04particularly of racial and ethnic
- 00:03:07minorities welcome
- 00:03:09everyone our topic today is medical
- 00:03:12communication an essential ingredient to
- 00:03:15Quality Healthcare although there are
- 00:03:17lots of types of communication in
- 00:03:19healthcare today we'll focus primarily
- 00:03:21on the communication between patient and
- 00:03:24clinician Studies have shown that
- 00:03:27effective communication between patient
- 00:03:29and clinician leads to faster more
- 00:03:32accurate diagnosis better adherence to
- 00:03:34treatment fewer medical errors and
- 00:03:37better coordination of care in short
- 00:03:40effective communication can save money
- 00:03:43and more importantly save lives here are
- 00:03:46some revealing statistics about the
- 00:03:48importance of Communications in Quality
- 00:03:50Health Care a study reported in the
- 00:03:54December issue of the Journal of
- 00:03:55American Medical Association found that
- 00:03:58would patients feel their doctors
- 00:04:00listened to them and involve them in
- 00:04:02decisions they were more likely to take
- 00:04:05their medication as recommended The
- 00:04:07Joint Commission says that as many as
- 00:04:1070% of medical errors can be traced to
- 00:04:12breakdowns in
- 00:04:14communication and a National Consumer
- 00:04:16survey on health it showed that 60% of
- 00:04:21patients wished their doctors had more
- 00:04:24time to talk to them so let's start the
- 00:04:27conversation by talking a little bit
- 00:04:29about the expectations and perspectives
- 00:04:31that come together in a typical medical
- 00:04:34encounter say for a patient recently
- 00:04:37diagnosed with diabetes what's on the
- 00:04:39doctor's mind as she walks he or she
- 00:04:41walks into the exam room what's the
- 00:04:43patient thinking Dr pedar can you give a
- 00:04:47us a glimpse of what's the patient the
- 00:04:49physician's situation in that
- 00:04:52situation sure I I think the big uh
- 00:04:54challenge that we as doctors face in in
- 00:04:57any of these situations is that we are
- 00:04:59we've seen this whatever is in front of
- 00:05:01us thousands of times and for the
- 00:05:03patient it's the first so in my own case
- 00:05:06I have to be really really focused on
- 00:05:09making sure that I view it through the
- 00:05:11patient's eyes and communicate in a way
- 00:05:13that's clear wait for questions be
- 00:05:16thoughtful and uh and not hurry on and
- 00:05:20assume uh that the patient understands
- 00:05:22it in the way that I have seeing
- 00:05:24something over and over and over again
- 00:05:26through my career
- 00:05:31and uh Dr Arnold what might be going
- 00:05:34through the patient mind at that at that
- 00:05:36time well it depends a lot about who the
- 00:05:40I mean who the patient is I mean our
- 00:05:42other family members have diabetes have
- 00:05:45they've been told that they are
- 00:05:47pre-diabetic beforehand what's their
- 00:05:50relationship with the doctor I mean I
- 00:05:52think for patients the question is
- 00:05:54what's wrong with me what does it mean
- 00:05:56to my life and what can be done and I
- 00:05:58think that
- 00:06:00the issues with diabetes which is
- 00:06:03largely an is uh a disease of uh obesity
- 00:06:08in our country has to do with issues
- 00:06:11regarding beliefs in medicines versus
- 00:06:14changes in habits and how doctors and
- 00:06:17patients negotiate those two
- 00:06:19factors right Dr call can you talk about
- 00:06:23what culture and past experiences what
- 00:06:25role they play in the patients
- 00:06:28experience sure I um one of the things
- 00:06:31that um patience my experience is what
- 00:06:35have I done to create this um and so uh
- 00:06:39they're going to have in in some ways
- 00:06:42because In some cultures the other is
- 00:06:45very important um they might have the
- 00:06:48the idea that the patient the the doctor
- 00:06:51is going to judge them uh again because
- 00:06:54of the cultural uh perspective of um you
- 00:06:57know the collective uh uh culture of of
- 00:07:01you know whoever it is so I think that's
- 00:07:04the main thing how how am I going to be
- 00:07:06perceived by this doctor and so that's
- 00:07:08when um a non-judgmental doctor might
- 00:07:12definitely uh be able to to make this
- 00:07:16patient feel comfortable and uh and then
- 00:07:18from there be able to uh to engage in a
- 00:07:23conversation and this this inovate
- 00:07:26conversation between the physician and
- 00:07:29the patient if it leads to better care
- 00:07:33or in the case of miscommunication a
- 00:07:37problem and and more expensive care the
- 00:07:40health system also has an interest in
- 00:07:42that that interaction John could you
- 00:07:46talk a little bit about the health
- 00:07:48system and and what why does it care
- 00:07:51about what goes on in the medical in the
- 00:07:53in that personal encounter between a
- 00:07:56physician or clinician and a patient
- 00:07:58sure I think
- 00:08:00I think there's two two pieces to that
- 00:08:02that are pretty obvious one is um first
- 00:08:05I think um the healthare the system is
- 00:08:08cares about the the overall patient
- 00:08:10outcome across the the that encounter
- 00:08:13plus all the other encounters and I
- 00:08:15think at least from my perspective it's
- 00:08:17very critical for the patient to be a
- 00:08:19very engaged participant in that and and
- 00:08:22first and foremost is to understand um
- 00:08:25to understand the conditions to
- 00:08:27understand their procedures to
- 00:08:28understand their options and to become
- 00:08:29partner with their physician um you know
- 00:08:33like uh like Dr kedar said that uh for
- 00:08:35him it's a it's he's gone through that a
- 00:08:38number of times for the patients the
- 00:08:40first time and um I think both parties
- 00:08:43need to recognize that and and uh and
- 00:08:46work together work together more closely
- 00:08:48and it starts with understanding right
- 00:08:52and Barbara doctors are pressed for time
- 00:08:55how does that or and clinicians I me
- 00:08:57everyone in in healthcare is pressed for
- 00:08:59time how does that affect medical
- 00:09:02Communications it it definitely affects
- 00:09:04it and uh regarding the time Factor the
- 00:09:08best thing patients can actually do is
- 00:09:10to really be an empowered patient and
- 00:09:13engaged patient and be prepared before
- 00:09:16visits if they write their questions
- 00:09:18down in advance that may save a little
- 00:09:20bit of time if they're prepared if they
- 00:09:22do a little bit of research searching on
- 00:09:24the internet um getting their questions
- 00:09:26down and then bringing them to the phys
- 00:09:28or the clinician
- 00:09:30um and they can help guide them and help
- 00:09:32them through their their prognosis or
- 00:09:35even regardless of what it is I it they
- 00:09:38can help them through their uh situation
- 00:09:41at that moment but if they're prepared
- 00:09:44that is like a that is key because it'll
- 00:09:46help save time because there is such uh
- 00:09:49a rush for time with with the
- 00:09:52visits right some are what are the other
- 00:09:55things that patients can do to just
- 00:09:58improve their situation as they're going
- 00:10:00into this this encounter with a
- 00:10:02physician or a
- 00:10:04clinician
- 00:10:05um um hearing um hearing the uh the
- 00:10:09previous
- 00:10:11answer um I think that we also can come
- 00:10:14across a lot of patients that may not
- 00:10:16have the inform the information the
- 00:10:19knowledge to know which questions to ask
- 00:10:22and so I think that one of the things
- 00:10:26that and I know that we're talking about
- 00:10:29time
- 00:10:30but I think that it would be sort of for
- 00:10:33the doctor to to also feel more like an
- 00:10:37educator um for a person who uh who
- 00:10:40might not have the the knowledge and it
- 00:10:44things might not be worked out um on one
- 00:10:47visit I think it may require multiple
- 00:10:49visits um because in my work we've
- 00:10:52encountered a lot of um patients that um
- 00:10:55are not knowledgeable and and to the
- 00:10:57point where they don't even know where
- 00:10:58to start to ask questions um so this is
- 00:11:01where maybe also uh nurses can come in
- 00:11:04or maybe a health educator can come in
- 00:11:07right before they actually see the
- 00:11:09doctor to to see if if the person has
- 00:11:13generated some questions based on the
- 00:11:14information that maybe a health educator
- 00:11:17uh G her or um or or a nurse so I I
- 00:11:21think I I think it's a great idea for
- 00:11:23patients to come up with questions
- 00:11:25before but but I think that they first
- 00:11:27have to have some B basic
- 00:11:31knowledge uhuh yes so the health system
- 00:11:36has to work with patients in order to
- 00:11:39help them be that empowered patient it's
- 00:11:42it's a complete switch in roles for a
- 00:11:44patient we've been expecting them to be
- 00:11:46in the sick role for for years and years
- 00:11:49you go to the pediatrician as a child
- 00:11:51and the pediatrician talks to your to to
- 00:11:54your mother instead of you so we we grow
- 00:11:56up not knowing that we're supposed to
- 00:11:59talk to the doctor um so what can the
- 00:12:02health system what can what can we do to
- 00:12:05encourage patients to be more open
- 00:12:10um what's what's being done in medical
- 00:12:12school Dr Arnold so I guess I I think
- 00:12:16it's really important to empower
- 00:12:18patients it's really important for
- 00:12:19patients to understand what's going on
- 00:12:22and I think that we need to be careful
- 00:12:24in the pendulum so we don't blame uh
- 00:12:28people people who are sick because they
- 00:12:30quote aren't empowered enough or aren't
- 00:12:33good enough consumers they are sick and
- 00:12:37it seems to me the real question is do
- 00:12:39you find your doctor trustworthy and how
- 00:12:42can you help your doctor how can you
- 00:12:44find a doctor and a team that you're
- 00:12:46going to trust because you know the
- 00:12:49bottom line is patients aren't going to
- 00:12:51know as much about medicine as their
- 00:12:53Healthcare team I don't know as much
- 00:12:55about cars as my mechanic and if I don't
- 00:12:57trust my mechanic however empowered I am
- 00:13:00it's not going to work out and so I
- 00:13:02guess I I want to put a little bit of
- 00:13:04caution that we don't sort of
- 00:13:07convince patients that they have to be
- 00:13:09doctors to work in a Health Care system
- 00:13:12that shouldn't be their job their job
- 00:13:14should be to think about what's most
- 00:13:16important to them and to negotiate that
- 00:13:18with their healthc care team so they can
- 00:13:21focus on what's most important and I
- 00:13:22didn't answer your question at all I'm
- 00:13:25sorry that's okay
- 00:13:29and and I think that this is why um in
- 00:13:32terms of the medical system I think this
- 00:13:34is why the idea of Health
- 00:13:37Educators uh it's a good one because if
- 00:13:41if we're if we're talking about folks
- 00:13:43that may not have the information and
- 00:13:45maybe we like the doctor said we may not
- 00:13:48want them to be doctors themselves but
- 00:13:50we do want someone to sort of walk along
- 00:13:53with them and we understand that doctors
- 00:13:55don't have the time to do that but if we
- 00:13:57have someone to walk along with them to
- 00:14:00uh Empower them as we've been talking
- 00:14:02about would be a great can I just t on
- 00:14:04that a little bit um just from my
- 00:14:07experience um work as a nurse in the
- 00:14:10hospital from years ago until until now
- 00:14:14there's such a change with patients
- 00:14:16because now patients are asking a lot of
- 00:14:19questions when I first started no one
- 00:14:21really asked any questions and their
- 00:14:22families was were not even around but
- 00:14:25today patients are asking questions
- 00:14:28their families asking questions and not
- 00:14:30only they're asking questions but
- 00:14:32they're almost demanding that they get
- 00:14:34the answers and they want the answers
- 00:14:36right away and um and this the doctors
- 00:14:39and the nurses are so in tune to the
- 00:14:41clinical aspect of of things um that I
- 00:14:45think we're losing focus in a way with
- 00:14:48how to deal with the empowered patient
- 00:14:51who's asking so many questions so I
- 00:14:53think communic and I think this is all
- 00:14:55due to social media it
- 00:14:58has transformed healthcare because the
- 00:15:01internet everyone is searching and
- 00:15:03gathering information and I think in
- 00:15:05terms of medical schools and nursing
- 00:15:07schools I think communication from
- 00:15:09social media needs to be tapped into
- 00:15:11which I know some schools are doing that
- 00:15:14um but also communication face to face I
- 00:15:17think we're kind of losing the art of
- 00:15:18communicating because we're so involved
- 00:15:20with so many other things in the
- 00:15:22hospital everyone's trying to get their
- 00:15:24meds out or trying to get the orders
- 00:15:26from the labs or the pharmacy or
- 00:15:28whatever the is issues are there's so
- 00:15:29much going on so these patients and
- 00:15:32these families that are asking these
- 00:15:33questions it's almost as if there's no
- 00:15:35time to answer them because they're
- 00:15:37involved with so much more so I think we
- 00:15:40need to get the face-to-face
- 00:15:42communication um in dealing with
- 00:15:44patients and families and I know
- 00:15:46Cleveland Clinic I know Dr James Marino
- 00:15:48speaks about this um often where their
- 00:15:50physicians in the Cleveland Clinic are
- 00:15:52being trained in communication to help
- 00:15:56uh Foster better communication between
- 00:15:58patient Andor doctors but I don't think
- 00:16:00we should leave it to just doctors
- 00:16:01because nurses are there consistently
- 00:16:03247 with the patients so I think we need
- 00:16:06to bring social media Communications and
- 00:16:08verbal
- 00:16:10Communications out and really go full
- 00:16:12force with it because patients are
- 00:16:14really speaking up a lot and they really
- 00:16:17do have a lot of questions right right
- 00:16:19and they need a lot of time with that it
- 00:16:21doesn't do any good to impower someone
- 00:16:24if they're met with a brick wall U or
- 00:16:26with other obstacles to communicate
- 00:16:29can you speak a little bit about that
- 00:16:31comment on what Barbara said Dr Fedor oh
- 00:16:35absolutely I I think it's a spot on I I
- 00:16:38I guess our experience at the the center
- 00:16:40for connected health is when we
- 00:16:43ask uh things of our patients as long as
- 00:16:46we arm them with good data and tools and
- 00:16:48meet them where they are we get fabulous
- 00:16:51engagement and fabulous results and
- 00:16:54indeed some of the cases we are able to
- 00:16:56let them be their own doctor uh for
- 00:16:59their narrow focus of their illness so I
- 00:17:02think all of this is is quite possible
- 00:17:04and we have all the tools but it's a
- 00:17:08matter of of listening really carefully
- 00:17:10uh to and meeting them where they are uh
- 00:17:14so I'm quite um encourag the other thing
- 00:17:17I'll say that as a provider or a
- 00:17:19provider system we we need to embrace
- 00:17:22people that Barbara's describing because
- 00:17:26those people who are asking lots of
- 00:17:28questions they're for they're in uh
- 00:17:30engaged and in in their care are much
- 00:17:34more likely a to have a better outcome
- 00:17:36and B if things go sour they're less
- 00:17:39likely to hold you accountable because
- 00:17:41they were in the decision-making process
- 00:17:43with you right John would you like to
- 00:17:46comment on this yeah I mean I think uh
- 00:17:49kind of going back to the idea of a
- 00:17:50partnership um you know the time that
- 00:17:52you get to spend with a physician or any
- 00:17:54clinical professional for that matter is
- 00:17:57precious and it's limited and
- 00:17:59um you know to to Barbara's Point
- 00:18:01earlier you need to be prepared as a
- 00:18:03patient and you and you head into those
- 00:18:05conversations and I think um one of the
- 00:18:08great things about the sort of
- 00:18:09Technology boom and the social media
- 00:18:11boom and and uh mobile health and and
- 00:18:15the like is that it's um it's not
- 00:18:17replacing any of these conversations
- 00:18:19it's not uh it's not taking them out of
- 00:18:22the picture but I think what the real
- 00:18:23the real benefit of it is is it gives an
- 00:18:25opportunity for uh for people to try to
- 00:18:28maximize time together you and and make
- 00:18:31that you when you are talking with your
- 00:18:33physician be prepared with the right
- 00:18:35questions be ready to capture that
- 00:18:37information that you need and to go
- 00:18:39outside of that visit and uh investigate
- 00:18:42your your condition your procedures your
- 00:18:44treatment plans and your options better
- 00:18:46and then have a conduit to to to get
- 00:18:49your questions answered even if it's not
- 00:18:50inside of a visit when you can't get
- 00:18:52that time so right one of we have a
- 00:18:55question from uh Twitter um in what ways
- 00:18:59can technology ease the communication
- 00:19:01process in healthcare does email
- 00:19:04help facilitate a more relaxed
- 00:19:07conversation between the patient and the
- 00:19:09Health Care
- 00:19:11System um I'm I'm I'm happy to go first
- 00:19:14on that because I email a lot with
- 00:19:16patients uh and what I find is that
- 00:19:19email has to be very contextual that
- 00:19:22first of all to to start just setting
- 00:19:25sort of context I don't take emails
- 00:19:28about healthare from people I've never
- 00:19:30met before uh which I guess makes sense
- 00:19:33but some people think that maybe you can
- 00:19:36uh sort of get get get a doctor's advice
- 00:19:39by just sending them a random email but
- 00:19:41for my patients we email a lot and we
- 00:19:43use secure email because of uh privacy
- 00:19:46concerns but we email a lot and it's
- 00:19:48really about uh gwiz this happened after
- 00:19:52I came home I thought of this what do
- 00:19:54you think of that or I'm a dermatologist
- 00:19:56so people that I know well will send me
- 00:19:58images do I have to come in for this is
- 00:20:00this something we can fix without
- 00:20:02without having a visit and it works
- 00:20:04quite well so I see it as supplemental
- 00:20:06and when you have a good relationship
- 00:20:08with a patient it works quite
- 00:20:10well John can you talk about other tools
- 00:20:13technology tools that that can help with
- 00:20:15the U to make the conversation between
- 00:20:19the patient and the Health Care System
- 00:20:20go more smoothly well I was going to
- 00:20:24say h sorry feedback um what I was going
- 00:20:27to say was you know being an industry
- 00:20:29software where we spend a lot of time
- 00:20:31working remote we do a ton of
- 00:20:32email-based communication around our
- 00:20:35projects um a lot of the nuance and a
- 00:20:38lot of the the obviously the non-verbal
- 00:20:40elements of the conversation are are
- 00:20:42lost and I think you know email and chat
- 00:20:44and social media and all those are great
- 00:20:47for filling in the details but they
- 00:20:50don't they don't replace they don't
- 00:20:52replace it and they you know the concern
- 00:20:54and the the empathy and the the
- 00:20:56non-verbal elements of that
- 00:20:57communication I think technology is good
- 00:21:00for helping to to uh to be a conduit for
- 00:21:04uh conveying and capturing the the the
- 00:21:07details and the data and the decision
- 00:21:09points uh and and things like that and
- 00:21:11you know this the things that we do with
- 00:21:14some of our applications are trying to
- 00:21:15make some of that conversation visual uh
- 00:21:18and capture that in a digital format so
- 00:21:20it's something the patient can take with
- 00:21:22them when they leave that leave that
- 00:21:24conversation but would you know I still
- 00:21:27think it's important that with the the
- 00:21:29Advent of tablets where we can kind of
- 00:21:30stand there shoulder-to-shoulder and
- 00:21:32have a conversation and use the
- 00:21:33technology as an aid but don't let it
- 00:21:36get in the way right right so how do you
- 00:21:39not let it get in the way um you hear
- 00:21:42stories of of the the Doctor Who's
- 00:21:44staring at the the computer trying to
- 00:21:47figure out what to do because he's just
- 00:21:49got this new EHR and he doesn't know how
- 00:21:51to use it how do how do you prevent that
- 00:21:55how do you keep technology get the good
- 00:21:57of Technology without getting that bad
- 00:21:59stuff it's a great it's a great question
- 00:22:01uh I mean from the software side of
- 00:22:03things a lot of that has to do with user
- 00:22:06experience behind the technology if
- 00:22:08we're talking about emrs for example it
- 00:22:11has a lot to do with the design uh and
- 00:22:13of that and mobile technology is great
- 00:22:16because it uh it it has the potential to
- 00:22:21bridge that that kind of face- to-face
- 00:22:23side by-side conversation unless you
- 00:22:24know kind of walk around buried in your
- 00:22:26your iPhone or your iPad but um a lot of
- 00:22:28that has to do with usability and you
- 00:22:30know this is a um I think it's a
- 00:22:32marathon not a Sprint in the sense that
- 00:22:35it's going to take a while for for you
- 00:22:37know software companies to to to develop
- 00:22:40out and to get more Nuance with the the
- 00:22:42specific
- 00:22:43workflows uh I mean if you think about
- 00:22:46um you know there really should be an
- 00:22:48EMR for every combination of where you
- 00:22:51went to medical school where you trained
- 00:22:53where you are today um that's a lot of
- 00:22:55different permutations of of of VMR so
- 00:22:59it's a it's a very difficult problem to
- 00:23:00solve that um that these companies are
- 00:23:03working on Dr Arnold did you have
- 00:23:05something to add to that yeah there's
- 00:23:07some easy things I mean if there's no
- 00:23:10reason why your patient and your doctor
- 00:23:13shouldn't be in the same line of sight
- 00:23:15regardless of whether there's a computer
- 00:23:17there and some of it is saying can you
- 00:23:20please can we move the chair can we
- 00:23:22structure the office so that I don't
- 00:23:24have a computer in front of me and a
- 00:23:26patient beside me so I can't look at
- 00:23:28both of them at the same time the second
- 00:23:30thing is that some of it is remembering
- 00:23:34and I think this is what what John had
- 00:23:37talked about that at important parts you
- 00:23:40need to stop looking at the computer I
- 00:23:42mean today is Valentine's Day right and
- 00:23:46you know if you're looking at your cell
- 00:23:48phone while you're making uh comments of
- 00:23:53of connectedness it you may be lonely
- 00:23:56tonight uh and it seems to me that when
- 00:23:58I'm having the part of the conversation
- 00:24:01that is affect Laden I should not be
- 00:24:04typing I
- 00:24:06should I should change my focus and my
- 00:24:10attention and the patient understands if
- 00:24:13when I'm collecting data I'm at the
- 00:24:15computer but when I'm now saying here's
- 00:24:17what the plan is I need to look away
- 00:24:19from the computer and for those three to
- 00:24:22five minutes give the patient 100% of my
- 00:24:25time and
- 00:24:27energy Dr K you're nodding your
- 00:24:30head do you have something to add as
- 00:24:32well uh yeah in through the voices of
- 00:24:35the women that that we have interviewed
- 00:24:38uh that is one of the major issues that
- 00:24:42they bring up that not only do they feel
- 00:24:45that there's not enough time but within
- 00:24:48the time that they do have with the
- 00:24:49doctor the doctor is not even paying
- 00:24:51attention to them and that really really
- 00:24:55uh sort of sets the stage uh for how
- 00:24:58she's perceiving that interaction so I
- 00:25:01completely agree that um one idea that I
- 00:25:05think uh could work is the doctor can uh
- 00:25:08or whoever is interacting with with with
- 00:25:11with the patient to review the date the
- 00:25:13records uh whatever data they have on
- 00:25:16the patient and then after
- 00:25:20that and then I'm so sorry and then
- 00:25:23after that
- 00:25:24um just try to you know just engage uh
- 00:25:28you know eyee to eye interaction or
- 00:25:30face- Toof face interaction and really
- 00:25:33it's almost like uh qu quality time that
- 00:25:36we talk about it spending with with kids
- 00:25:38that's that's exactly the way that I
- 00:25:41would that I was envisioning when women
- 00:25:43would tell us about how uh it it's been
- 00:25:46for them in in some
- 00:25:48situations right you know I uh I see uh
- 00:25:5320 patients in a half day uh it's a high
- 00:25:55Dermatology is a high volume practice
- 00:25:57and so every minute counts and I don't
- 00:26:01do any charting in the room with the
- 00:26:03patients it's completely I'm completely
- 00:26:06present for them and I do my charting
- 00:26:09outside of the room not that that would
- 00:26:10work for every specialist in every
- 00:26:12situation but just to to sort of drive
- 00:26:15home the point that we're all making
- 00:26:16that as human beings we we've somehow
- 00:26:20lost the ability to be present and
- 00:26:24presence is such an important part and
- 00:26:26it's so powerful and valuable to the
- 00:26:28doctor patient or or provider patient
- 00:26:30relationship shouldn't be that hard for
- 00:26:32us to uh to pick up those skills and
- 00:26:34utilize them so just agreeing with what
- 00:26:36others have said right I think the part
- 00:26:38I think the part of the issue is to go
- 00:26:40slow to go fast and so the first three
- 00:26:44minutes of the interview my job is to
- 00:26:47make sure that the patient and I have
- 00:26:48the same agenda and to explain what the
- 00:26:51heck I'm doing I mean it's okay that I
- 00:26:54type things I I need to say you know at
- 00:26:57the beginning we're now to the part
- 00:26:59where I ask you a lot of questions about
- 00:27:01yourself so I can sort of figure out who
- 00:27:02you are and I type it so that next time
- 00:27:04you come in I have it all written down
- 00:27:07patients get that that's understandable
- 00:27:10but if they just see me typing they
- 00:27:11don't know that I'm not doing my email
- 00:27:13or sending Twitter feeds during the
- 00:27:15conversation and so some of it is just
- 00:27:17to say okay now what we're GNA do is
- 00:27:19we're going to talk about what's next
- 00:27:21and when we talk about what's next that
- 00:27:23part requires sort of face- tof face
- 00:27:25time and it's I don't need to type
- 00:27:28anyway it won't help me and so some of
- 00:27:30it is just learning to say here's what
- 00:27:33I'm going to do next what we're going to
- 00:27:34do now is a physical
- 00:27:36exam now we're going to talk about what
- 00:27:39comes next and I think the problem is
- 00:27:41that doctors do it so often that we
- 00:27:43often don't signpost the way that we
- 00:27:45ought to sign post uh and I think that
- 00:27:49some of it is just being explicit we
- 00:27:51have about 20 minutes today what are the
- 00:27:53things that you want to make sure that
- 00:27:55we accomplish and and just to tap into
- 00:27:57that though I think what's really
- 00:27:59important too is for the patient really
- 00:28:02to give 100% accurate history of of
- 00:28:06their medical condition um regarding
- 00:28:09what they take too because we find that
- 00:28:12patients may not be so forthcoming with
- 00:28:15information whether whether they have a
- 00:28:18history of drug addiction and they they
- 00:28:20might hold that back or they may have uh
- 00:28:23they may take supplements and they might
- 00:28:24not let let your physician or clinician
- 00:28:26know that which is really important
- 00:28:28because that can interact with other
- 00:28:30medications so I think in terms of
- 00:28:32communication it's really important for
- 00:28:34patients to really be 100% clear on what
- 00:28:37they're telling their clinician and
- 00:28:39honest 100% honest so it could avoid any
- 00:28:42kind of
- 00:28:43complications and if you're insured just
- 00:28:46asked so when the doctor says what
- 00:28:47medicines are you're taking and you're
- 00:28:48on 12 vitamins you might say do you want
- 00:28:50to hear about my vitamins too because
- 00:28:52the doctor maybe should have said what
- 00:28:54pills do you put in your mouth but
- 00:28:56sometimes we sort of have a narrow
- 00:28:58perspective as well right so there's
- 00:29:01things that that there's training that
- 00:29:06Physicians need and and maybe patients
- 00:29:08need too but focusing on on what what
- 00:29:10clinicians get what training clinicians
- 00:29:12get what what helps them the there's the
- 00:29:15four habits model of of medical
- 00:29:18communication there are there are other
- 00:29:20models what helps
- 00:29:23clinicians develop those habits because
- 00:29:26they don't seem to come naturally to of
- 00:29:28us well wait a sec we ought to be let's
- 00:29:30be really clear they don't come
- 00:29:31naturally to anybody otherwise you
- 00:29:33wouldn't walk in bookstores and find row
- 00:29:36after row of relationship books we think
- 00:29:40that we communicate well and yet we have
- 00:29:42pretty good data that in most of our
- 00:29:45intimate relationships in which we talk
- 00:29:47about emotions we have lots of problems
- 00:29:50I think that we need to view
- 00:29:51communication as a skill and that I
- 00:29:54think in medical schools and nursing
- 00:29:56schools now they're using many more
- 00:29:58simulated patients to allow people to
- 00:30:01practice and get in the- moment feedback
- 00:30:05and then try it again that we need to
- 00:30:07view Communications just like other
- 00:30:10things that people do and we need to
- 00:30:12help I think healthc care providers have
- 00:30:14more ability to have emotional
- 00:30:18flexibility and mindfulness and there is
- 00:30:20also a big movement from Ron Epstein and
- 00:30:24at University of Rochester and Tony Bach
- 00:30:26at the University of Washington to try
- 00:30:28to teach Physicians to have the ability
- 00:30:31to deal with some of their emotions and
- 00:30:34distractions so that they truly can be
- 00:30:36present as other people have suggested
- 00:30:38that's great Dr pedar do you have
- 00:30:40anything to add to that no I think it
- 00:30:42was well spoken uh it it uh I I really
- 00:30:47can't I can't do better than
- 00:30:49that great I I did want to add really
- 00:30:53something really quickly this is uh um I
- 00:30:57think those commun that type of
- 00:31:00communication would come in so handy
- 00:31:03when working with patients of different
- 00:31:05cultures because that is one of the
- 00:31:09major I think themes of that that we
- 00:31:12found was that because the doctor or at
- 00:31:17least uh some of the women thought that
- 00:31:18the doctor couldn't really be flexible
- 00:31:20with what he was thinking um it it
- 00:31:25really created some kind of uh not not
- 00:31:28not feeling like the like she could
- 00:31:30trust that doctor so I think that um
- 00:31:34with with women who or or just patients
- 00:31:37from different cultures that
- 00:31:40non-judgmental um stay in the moment uh
- 00:31:42type of skill would be
- 00:31:44helpful and a large component with that
- 00:31:47also I think is is empathy which some
- 00:31:51it's easier I think for some people to
- 00:31:53to feel empathy for others but I think
- 00:31:56that's a skill that could be taught that
- 00:31:57was that was mentioned previously um
- 00:32:01empathy there's so much written on the
- 00:32:03topic and I think it's such an important
- 00:32:05component in healthcare today and I
- 00:32:08think when you encounter a physician or
- 00:32:11clinician with empathy I think your care
- 00:32:13and treatment is much more well-received
- 00:32:15and I think there's better outcomes with
- 00:32:17that um so if patients aren't feeling um
- 00:32:21a partnership as which has been
- 00:32:22mentioned earlier um with their
- 00:32:24physician I think they should maybe
- 00:32:27really try to find somebody that fits
- 00:32:29their their needs because that will
- 00:32:32ultimately help them live live a live a
- 00:32:35better life and they can work towards
- 00:32:37goals when they're working
- 00:32:39together but empathy I think is crucial
- 00:32:42and I think it's kind of missing so I
- 00:32:44think it all needs to be in schools
- 00:32:47medical schools nursing schools Farm
- 00:32:50dietitians physical therapists no matter
- 00:32:53what where you are in healthcare it's a
- 00:32:56big component
- 00:32:59right um medical information is often
- 00:33:03presented as hard facts this is your
- 00:33:06diagnosis and it has a x you know
- 00:33:08percent cure rate but in reality the
- 00:33:12choice of of of treatment and um and how
- 00:33:17you're going to go about dealing with
- 00:33:18this illness is is driven by values it's
- 00:33:22driven by
- 00:33:24individuality how do you bridge that
- 00:33:26with the how can Physicians and
- 00:33:29clinicians work with patients to share
- 00:33:32decisions um in a
- 00:33:34way that they're imparting impartial
- 00:33:38information that then gets processed by
- 00:33:41the individual patient Dr K could
- 00:33:45you respond to
- 00:33:49that
- 00:33:53she's failure of communication
- 00:33:58I think you got you're on mute Dr call
- 00:34:01yeah I I think I had um technical issues
- 00:34:04I'm sorry
- 00:34:07question Dr Arnold would you like to
- 00:34:09take that one uh now I forgot what's
- 00:34:13going sure um I Shar decision making
- 00:34:19and the first question is you ought to
- 00:34:22negotiate
- 00:34:24whether um the patient wants to do
- 00:34:26shared decision making
- 00:34:28I mean some patients do and some
- 00:34:31patients don't I I do HIV pain and I
- 00:34:35have to say some of my patients don't
- 00:34:37want to make the decision they don't
- 00:34:38want full information what they really
- 00:34:40want is they they want me to talk to
- 00:34:44their loved one and I think that there's
- 00:34:46this certain sense at the beginning in
- 00:34:48my first visit where we can talk about
- 00:34:50are you the kind of person who likes to
- 00:34:51hear all the information are you the
- 00:34:53kind of person who would rather I talk
- 00:34:55to you know your son or your daughter
- 00:34:58are you the kind of person who likes to
- 00:35:00sort of hear the information then make a
- 00:35:02first decision or would you like my
- 00:35:04recommendation I think they're really
- 00:35:06needs to be upfront a negotiation about
- 00:35:09Styles because you and I have never met
- 00:35:11before and if we don't talk about it at
- 00:35:14the beginning it is unlikely to work out
- 00:35:17you're not going to read my mind and I'm
- 00:35:18not gonna read your mind it's
- 00:35:20interesting I I drag them all into
- 00:35:23shared decision making and and most uh
- 00:35:27the occasionally you get someone who
- 00:35:28says oh I don't know you're the doctor
- 00:35:31and and I take that as the cue to uh to
- 00:35:33be more prescriptive but but what I said
- 00:35:36earlier I think is really true that
- 00:35:38people people that are engaged and
- 00:35:40involved do better and so I I remind
- 00:35:43them that it's their body and their life
- 00:35:45and I'm only there as a steward and most
- 00:35:48of the time I can I can get people to a
- 00:35:50point where they will participate in in
- 00:35:52a shared medical decision making and I
- 00:35:54think we do better with it but you're
- 00:35:56right there are some people people who
- 00:35:57don't want anything to do with it I
- 00:35:59really am a little bit of a beware of
- 00:36:02those folks though because I think
- 00:36:03they're also abdicating their
- 00:36:04responsibility to do their part in
- 00:36:06getting
- 00:36:07better um can you hear me now yes you
- 00:36:10can okay um in response to that question
- 00:36:14I think that I I do agree with others
- 00:36:16that that are talking about sort of
- 00:36:18meeting the patient where they are
- 00:36:20because you will come across some
- 00:36:22patients well where they definitely want
- 00:36:24to have a lot to do with the decisions
- 00:36:28that they have to make but um when we
- 00:36:30look at uh some patients that might come
- 00:36:33from other cultures for example Latino
- 00:36:36culture um in in in their country
- 00:36:41they're used to authority figures and so
- 00:36:44whenever they come across a doctor
- 00:36:47they're going to think the doctor has to
- 00:36:49say it's the doctor's uh how how could I
- 00:36:52tell my doctor how he should do his job
- 00:36:56and and that's that's when doctors can
- 00:36:59can make sort of like the decision is
- 00:37:01this someone who really wants me to make
- 00:37:04a decision because they really don't
- 00:37:07have information or is it because it's
- 00:37:09their culture or is it so sort of like
- 00:37:12play it you know based on where the
- 00:37:14individual is in some situations
- 00:37:17patients may want to V voice their
- 00:37:19opinion but they feel like they
- 00:37:21shouldn't so again we go back to the
- 00:37:24relationships uh what kind of
- 00:37:26relationship uh has a doctor build so
- 00:37:28far with um uh with a patient uh but I
- 00:37:33think that again it's on the individual
- 00:37:35basis
- 00:37:38um and another issue actually on top of
- 00:37:41that would be um with health literacy
- 00:37:43too um in terms of explaining things to
- 00:37:46patients make sure it's really in simple
- 00:37:48terms without medical jargon and just
- 00:37:50really really simplified level because
- 00:37:54even the even someone who has is high
- 00:37:57educated though too if they're getting
- 00:38:00news that is not very good news um
- 00:38:03everything can kind of break down and
- 00:38:05they're not even hearing what's being
- 00:38:06said so the simplest language in simple
- 00:38:10simple terms really can help the
- 00:38:13communication process as well um just
- 00:38:17one thing on that um as well uh in in
- 00:38:21our work as well we have heard even
- 00:38:23though the there I've been speaking a
- 00:38:25lot about those that might might not
- 00:38:27have
- 00:38:28uh great knowledge the ones that they
- 00:38:30feel like they do have knowledge if the
- 00:38:33doctor sort of approaches them in in a
- 00:38:35way that let me tell you or let me make
- 00:38:38the decisions they do feel as if they're
- 00:38:41um not being respected um so again it's
- 00:38:45it's it's all about meeting the patient
- 00:38:46where they
- 00:38:48are this relates to a question we got
- 00:38:51from a Facebook user
- 00:38:53constant
- 00:38:55katar Kat
- 00:38:58nness we once I once heard that if I if
- 00:39:01you ask a patient do you have any more
- 00:39:04questions the average length of time a
- 00:39:06patient will talk or ask questions is
- 00:39:08about 90 seconds I feel like if that and
- 00:39:12in my experience it it's true we're
- 00:39:16missing a wonderful opportunity with our
- 00:39:18patients to make them feel rightfully so
- 00:39:20like an active participant in our in
- 00:39:23their health care is this true have we
- 00:39:25done studies on this are there so are
- 00:39:28there studies about how the time in a
- 00:39:32medical encounter is used by The
- 00:39:34Physician and the
- 00:39:35patient John do you
- 00:39:37have um I I can't speak to the studies
- 00:39:40but I think um I think uh sorry I I
- 00:39:45completely lost my train of thought
- 00:39:46there but
- 00:39:48um uh sorry that was that was bad um I
- 00:39:52think one thing uh next next presenter
- 00:39:56I'm sorry me I'll give you a break uh
- 00:39:59there is a a rather famous uh a study
- 00:40:03that was done at the hospital bedside
- 00:40:05that that relates to this and what they
- 00:40:06did was they had rounding uh teams of
- 00:40:09physicians in the hospital uh spend five
- 00:40:12minutes every day with a patient but uh
- 00:40:15it was mixed up so that one day it was
- 00:40:19five minutes at the bedside at IE level
- 00:40:22uh another day it was 5 minutes uh at
- 00:40:24the doorway and and a third day it was 5
- 00:40:28minutes at the bedside but standing and
- 00:40:30then they went around and asked the
- 00:40:31patients how much time did your doctor
- 00:40:33spend with you today and if you were
- 00:40:36kneeling down at I level with the
- 00:40:37patient for five minutes they thought it
- 00:40:39was 10 uh but if you were at the doorway
- 00:40:42for five minutes they thought it was two
- 00:40:45uh so it makes a huge difference how you
- 00:40:47use your time and how effectively you uh
- 00:40:50uh uh participate in and as as we've
- 00:40:54we've already talked about that so the
- 00:40:56the the issue about the end of the visit
- 00:40:59and and asking is there any more
- 00:41:01questions the the uh individual who
- 00:41:03wrote that
- 00:41:04in is is really completely on on topic
- 00:41:08uh with that one because it is something
- 00:41:10you can do I do it at the beginning as
- 00:41:12well I just say what can I do for you
- 00:41:13and I don't say a word till they stop
- 00:41:15talking and people don't go on that long
- 00:41:17and then they really feel like they've
- 00:41:18been heard they're they're both very
- 00:41:20effective ways to use a small amount of
- 00:41:22time and get a lot out of it the studies
- 00:41:24show that if you just ask an openend
- 00:41:26question to begin with at most patients
- 00:41:29the longest anyone will talk is two to
- 00:41:31two and a half minutes that's right and
- 00:41:32the other thing to remember is that you
- 00:41:34know there are little things you can do
- 00:41:37so I can either say do you have any more
- 00:41:39questions and shake my head no and
- 00:41:41you'll probably say no or I can say what
- 00:41:44other questions do you have that is I
- 00:41:45can assume you have questions and
- 00:41:48continue to say what other questions do
- 00:41:50you have until you say nothing and you
- 00:41:53know I think that doctors worry about
- 00:41:56the very vocal person who will talk for
- 00:42:00hours and yet again there are relatively
- 00:42:03easy skills that you can teach most
- 00:42:06doctors or nurses or psychologists to
- 00:42:09try to sort of remind people of the
- 00:42:10amount of time that we have left and
- 00:42:12most people are more than willing and
- 00:42:14are very respectful of that i' I'd like
- 00:42:17to chim back in after I recovered my
- 00:42:19brain um uh the uh one of the things
- 00:42:23that that we're finding very interesting
- 00:42:25about the the work that we're doing by
- 00:42:27creating tools for Physicians is they're
- 00:42:29they're about educating patients and
- 00:42:31they're about it's about encouraging
- 00:42:33patients to be more active participants
- 00:42:36but I I think due to some of kind of the
- 00:42:40cultural Legacy and the way that the
- 00:42:41Health Care system is traditionally set
- 00:42:43up that that that is um patients are a
- 00:42:46little bit scared to do that or or
- 00:42:47reluctant to do that and so a big part
- 00:42:50of what we're doing is about um is is is
- 00:42:53giving the tools to Physicians to let
- 00:42:55them lead that to basically um open up
- 00:42:58the door for the patient to engage in
- 00:43:00the conversation so it's not just ask
- 00:43:02them if they have any questions but
- 00:43:04bring the conversation to to the level
- 00:43:06of understanding for example with the
- 00:43:08the drawing D apps is an example with
- 00:43:10simple drawings that can that can open
- 00:43:13up the door of understanding to pull the
- 00:43:15patients into the conversation so it's
- 00:43:17it's the physicians in a position of
- 00:43:19authority let them lead the charge of of
- 00:43:22engaging patients and give them the
- 00:43:24tools to do that in an efficient way
- 00:43:27right that's great we have a question
- 00:43:30from Christina on Twitter how do
- 00:43:33clinicians feel about mobile health and
- 00:43:36the WebMD boom has it impacted
- 00:43:39Communications
- 00:43:41positively who wants to tackle that
- 00:43:46one so um there is nothing that strikes
- 00:43:51more fear into most clinicians heart
- 00:43:55than patients who come with about 5 to
- 00:43:5823
- 00:43:59Ines of Google searches
- 00:44:03Andor uh reports uh and then wants to
- 00:44:09give them to the clinician and has like
- 00:44:11annotated questions next to many of
- 00:44:14those pages so you know the the problem
- 00:44:18is that there's so much information out
- 00:44:21there that for people whose way of
- 00:44:25coping is to read more and more
- 00:44:28information they will end up making
- 00:44:31themselves and I would argue their
- 00:44:33clinicians pretty crazy uh on the other
- 00:44:37hand some of the websites are great I
- 00:44:40mean the NCI has great websites for
- 00:44:45patients with cancer they're great
- 00:44:47informational websites and patient uh
- 00:44:51list serves for things from lupus to
- 00:44:53chronic fatigue syndrome uh their HIV
- 00:44:57patient communities that are amazing and
- 00:44:59so the question is how are you going to
- 00:45:02use it and to what degree do you in the
- 00:45:06end trust your clinician once you get in
- 00:45:10the room because if the bottom line is
- 00:45:12everything your clinician says you want
- 00:45:13to go and
- 00:45:15Google I think you should think about
- 00:45:17whether you have the right clinician or
- 00:45:19not are there ways that the Health Care
- 00:45:22system can help um winow down the the
- 00:45:26amount of information that that uh
- 00:45:28patients you or or steer them in in
- 00:45:32direction of reputable
- 00:45:35information yeah it'd be great if the
- 00:45:38the you know and this may already be
- 00:45:39done I'm not an expert in the web if
- 00:45:41there were like Good Housekeeping seals
- 00:45:43of approval and I think I think some of
- 00:45:46the you know that some of the physician
- 00:45:49uh groups like The American College of
- 00:45:50physicians in fact have put together in
- 00:45:53many articles now have sort of
- 00:45:54information for patients if I was a
- 00:45:57patient and I was Googling things I
- 00:45:59would want things that have some
- 00:46:03reputation behind them rather than
- 00:46:06someone who's trying to sell me
- 00:46:07something at the same time so I'd be
- 00:46:09worried about for example Chinese stem
- 00:46:12cell sites and those kinds of places
- 00:46:14that that have anecdotes and don't have
- 00:46:17anything that's sort of from a
- 00:46:18scientific literature that's the best I
- 00:46:20can
- 00:46:21do you have a perspective on that I um
- 00:46:25oh I'm sorry did you say me yes oh I'm
- 00:46:28sorry um yeah there there is so much
- 00:46:31information out out on the web and I
- 00:46:33think it's great though that that
- 00:46:35patients and cons consumers can can
- 00:46:37search for things and bring this
- 00:46:38information to their clinician I'd like
- 00:46:40to say though uh um oh um Gary schwitzer
- 00:46:45from healthnew review.org I I just need
- 00:46:48to mention him because he has a site
- 00:46:51that for healthcare journalists but also
- 00:46:53for consumers that provides information
- 00:46:57about what to really look for when
- 00:46:59you're reading news and he mentions all
- 00:47:02different networks all different print
- 00:47:05newspapers and magazines and he'll tell
- 00:47:07you if it's more hype or uh really solid
- 00:47:12information because he goes through all
- 00:47:14criteria um he mentions that some
- 00:47:16journalists may just go off a press
- 00:47:18release and write write an article from
- 00:47:21that and they're not really looking at
- 00:47:22the study and and then he he talks about
- 00:47:25how to kind of dive into that study so I
- 00:47:27think it's really important information
- 00:47:29because there is so much information out
- 00:47:31there this can kind of kind of put you
- 00:47:34on track as to what's what to look for
- 00:47:36and what's really useful and valuable um
- 00:47:39but I think it's great that patients can
- 00:47:41be so empowered to research and and find
- 00:47:44information and this is where clinicians
- 00:47:46can come into play and really help guide
- 00:47:48them but as my point from the very
- 00:47:50beginning it's really crucial I think to
- 00:47:52write down information before you go and
- 00:47:54see your doctor or or clinic just just
- 00:47:57to help prepare yourself and kind of uh
- 00:48:00navigate where the conversation will go
- 00:48:03but I think the internet is amazing and
- 00:48:06I think it's just moving at full force
- 00:48:09and it's we haven't seen seen it what it
- 00:48:12can do yet I don't
- 00:48:15think I think there's a very
- 00:48:19interesting parallel or sort of a
- 00:48:21construct that already exists in this in
- 00:48:23this situation the idea of a peer review
- 00:48:26um a lot of the Physicians that we work
- 00:48:28with um we have a lot of Physicians that
- 00:48:30that that contribute to our applications
- 00:48:33and to our products and that offer up
- 00:48:35suggestions because um they want to use
- 00:48:37a tool and they want to they want to
- 00:48:39have information available for their
- 00:48:41patients but they want to to Quality
- 00:48:42Control that a little bit and they have
- 00:48:44to balance that with the time it takes
- 00:48:46to do that so think about the imagine
- 00:48:49the idea of of of ways to do peer review
- 00:48:53find what your colleagues uh are are
- 00:48:56using
- 00:48:57to communicate with their patients the
- 00:48:59best practices the best resources on the
- 00:49:01web that are vetted through their own
- 00:49:03experiences and aggregate all that
- 00:49:05together and use that as a way to to to
- 00:49:07take that content and get in front of
- 00:49:10that of the the uh the the WebMD train
- 00:49:14that that Dr Arnold described you know
- 00:49:16put the resources in their hands before
- 00:49:18they come in with with pages and reams
- 00:49:20of of of information but use the
- 00:49:22technology and leverage your colleagues
- 00:49:25experiences to uh to to make that
- 00:49:28something that you can do with the time
- 00:49:29constraints that the profess that the
- 00:49:31profession puts on its its people Selma
- 00:49:35did you have something to add to
- 00:49:38this s you might be on
- 00:49:43mute oh okay um can you hear me now yeah
- 00:49:47okay great um I know that you were
- 00:49:49talking about mobile um uh healthc care
- 00:49:53and I in in my experience in my work
- 00:49:58mobile healthc care has been so pivotal
- 00:50:01when it comes to people that don't have
- 00:50:04access to health care for them to access
- 00:50:06it or may they may have uh clinics that
- 00:50:09they can go to in their Community but
- 00:50:11because of their busy schedules or many
- 00:50:14other um uh things that they have to do
- 00:50:16Mobile healthc Care is something that
- 00:50:18they they end up using quite a bit and
- 00:50:21um helpful for
- 00:50:23them when you're talking about mobile
- 00:50:25healthare talking about mobile
- 00:50:29technology oh yeah you were talking
- 00:50:30about mobile technology um um I was
- 00:50:34actually talking more about you know
- 00:50:36just mobile hand uh Vans and and going
- 00:50:39into communities
- 00:50:40really yeah uh now in terms of mobile
- 00:50:44technology that's a little bit trickier
- 00:50:46because at least with the population
- 00:50:48that I've uh done research with um they
- 00:50:52might not have access to to uh mobile
- 00:50:56phone in some situations um families
- 00:50:59share a phone so that may not be as as
- 00:51:02um I don't know effective for for the
- 00:51:05populations that I've been working with
- 00:51:07but I can see for maybe other
- 00:51:09populations that do have access to those
- 00:51:11can be very effective especially to keep
- 00:51:13them engaged while they're not in in you
- 00:51:16know at the doctor's office or they're
- 00:51:17not in the clinic uh that's definitely
- 00:51:19has been uh pretty effective from from
- 00:51:22some preliminary uh findings that that
- 00:51:24um that have shown shown
- 00:51:27that we question from Dan Buckland on
- 00:51:34Twitter asking about outcomes how do we
- 00:51:37know if you know any kind of
- 00:51:40communication Improvement efforts are
- 00:51:42working how do we measure
- 00:51:45this John do you have some ideas on
- 00:51:50this um you know it's it's definitely um
- 00:51:54it's definitely tough because um you
- 00:51:56know the the when it comes down to data
- 00:51:59if you want to think about it in data in
- 00:52:00the data sense and sort of tying all the
- 00:52:02the threads together um there are
- 00:52:05massive challenges from a systems
- 00:52:07integration standpoint that you have to
- 00:52:10you know kind of figure out how to get
- 00:52:11all the systems to communicate together
- 00:52:13and aggregate all the data and and and
- 00:52:15look at that and kind of factor out all
- 00:52:18the confounding effects and everything
- 00:52:20so um you know I think it's I think it's
- 00:52:22difficult there's there's you know more
- 00:52:25of a holistic approach that you can take
- 00:52:27is is leverage the social media leverage
- 00:52:29those connections that the Physicians
- 00:52:31are creating and nurturing directly with
- 00:52:33their patients to get that information
- 00:52:35back from them is this working for you
- 00:52:37is do you feel like you're more in
- 00:52:38control of your Healthcare or how do you
- 00:52:40feel about your outcomes and it's not
- 00:52:41the same as the statistical data and the
- 00:52:44measured outcomes but it's um you know
- 00:52:47there's value in it as well and it's
- 00:52:49it's directional and it's um it's
- 00:52:53useful I think it may be I think you may
- 00:52:57um evaluated personally by patient by
- 00:53:00patient as um communication if it's
- 00:53:04working with outcomes if they're
- 00:53:05achieving their health goals if if you
- 00:53:08have certain health goals set out for
- 00:53:09your patient and then they're meeting
- 00:53:11them without any kind of
- 00:53:14uh
- 00:53:16um in you know
- 00:53:18anything interfering with that then then
- 00:53:21you can measure that but I understand
- 00:53:23the question I don't think I really
- 00:53:25answered it I think I think maybe he
- 00:53:27wants a little bit more uh tangible type
- 00:53:30of answer as to maybe studies if there
- 00:53:33have been done with with outcomes in
- 00:53:35communication I offand I I can't recall
- 00:53:39any I don't know if the other panel
- 00:53:40members are aware of any studies from
- 00:53:43about outcomes with communication
- 00:53:46and there's a there's a really large
- 00:53:50literature that looks at both the
- 00:53:52empowering patient literature and health
- 00:53:56out comes as well as interventions to
- 00:53:59promote uh Health Care Providers
- 00:54:01communication and its relationship to
- 00:54:04Patient trust and patient
- 00:54:06satisfaction and adherence I mean uh
- 00:54:09some of these were discussed at the
- 00:54:11beginning I mean there there is a very
- 00:54:13large and rapidly
- 00:54:15growing uh literature on the effects of
- 00:54:19uh clinician communication and uh
- 00:54:22attempts to teach
- 00:54:24communication uh and it's a effect on
- 00:54:26patient care we've done a fair number of
- 00:54:28studies looking at
- 00:54:30oncologists uh communication and their
- 00:54:33ability to sort of respond to empathic
- 00:54:35opportunities for example in patient
- 00:54:37trust there's there's an enormous amount
- 00:54:39of literature yeah I don't know the
- 00:54:41specific study I know Dr Marino from the
- 00:54:43Cleveland Clinic wrote actually in one
- 00:54:44of his blogs about uh that there's less
- 00:54:46liability involved with better
- 00:54:48communication with Physicians and that's
- 00:54:50just a tap into it but I um he may go
- 00:54:53more into detail on that in in his
- 00:54:56but um I think just ongoing
- 00:54:58communication is is so important and I
- 00:55:01think side just to I might be getting
- 00:55:03off track a little bit but the silos are
- 00:55:05still so separated in healthcare I think
- 00:55:07we need to kind kind of put everything
- 00:55:10together and not have everyone so so
- 00:55:12separated and and every and so much is
- 00:55:15going on in the whole social media Arena
- 00:55:17that Healthcare can really tap into it
- 00:55:19and listen to the conversations that are
- 00:55:21occurring whether it's on Twitter or
- 00:55:23Facebook and and really see what
- 00:55:25patients and consumers have talking
- 00:55:26about and what they want and um I know
- 00:55:29Regina holiday is a huge EP patient
- 00:55:31person out in the Twitter ver and
- 00:55:35Facebook and she started patients uh
- 00:55:37Partnerships with patients on Facebook
- 00:55:39there's so many
- 00:55:40great Advocate uh advocacy patient types
- 00:55:45out there and Eep patient Dave is
- 00:55:47actually the first e-patient that I've
- 00:55:48ever heard of he's instrumental in the
- 00:55:50in the whole e patient arena for
- 00:55:52encouraging empowered patients I think
- 00:55:55healthcare really needs to tap into
- 00:55:56these folks and into into social media
- 00:55:59itself and really listen and see what's
- 00:56:01going on because it it needs to
- 00:56:04integrate with within the Health Care
- 00:56:05System it's still separated and we need
- 00:56:07to find a collaboration the the
- 00:56:10dichotomy is there and we we need to
- 00:56:13make it make it strong and everybody
- 00:56:14work together because it's it's about
- 00:56:17patients lives and they're looking for
- 00:56:19answers and they're talking about it and
- 00:56:22we can Healthcare can can tap into what
- 00:56:25they're what they're talking about right
- 00:56:27I think I got off track a little bit
- 00:56:29running out of time but one more
- 00:56:30question that kind of relates to this is
- 00:56:33and this comes from from the Twitter
- 00:56:35feed how do clinicians talk to each
- 00:56:38other about their patients how do they
- 00:56:41exchange information about their their
- 00:56:43patients um when what's the most
- 00:56:45effective way to do
- 00:56:47that John Cox do you have some
- 00:56:49perspective on that oh I mean I think
- 00:56:53there's you know I think we've seen a
- 00:56:55whole range of of of different options
- 00:56:57there and I think one of the things
- 00:56:59that's really great and I guess this for
- 00:57:00me this is kind of what health 2.0 is
- 00:57:03all about is that um it's about the
- 00:57:05individuals taking the initiative to try
- 00:57:09new things and to experiment um you know
- 00:57:11everything from um people bringing iPads
- 00:57:14into to their uh into their practice and
- 00:57:16using your iPhones and iPads and bring
- 00:57:18them into the practice using them with
- 00:57:20the patients but also using them with
- 00:57:21the Physicians as well you know sharing
- 00:57:24um images and and chatting and and and
- 00:57:27the like you know to people that kind of
- 00:57:29get fed up with that and that they want
- 00:57:30to they want to build products um for
- 00:57:33their colleagues to use to to to work
- 00:57:36together I mean you know you can't um
- 00:57:39you know shake a stick without hitting a
- 00:57:41a mobile Health startup that's that's
- 00:57:43founded by a doctor that's got that's
- 00:57:45got um a specific problem that they want
- 00:57:47to solve that was something that that
- 00:57:49was a problem for them that's exactly
- 00:57:51how visible Health got started and we we
- 00:57:53talk to people almost every day that
- 00:57:55have the the same kind of interest um so
- 00:57:59you know I that's that's what's so
- 00:58:00exciting to me is the individual
- 00:58:02empowerment and so I think that there's
- 00:58:04not really a one-sized fit all it's
- 00:58:06different Physicians have different
- 00:58:09methodologies that work for them to
- 00:58:11collaborate with there um with their
- 00:58:14colleagues and a lot of times they they
- 00:58:15may even resist some of the the kind of
- 00:58:18heavy
- 00:58:19structured elements and they they want
- 00:58:21to kind of gravitate towards the things
- 00:58:23that fit best within their Lifestyles
- 00:58:25and their and their particular work
- 00:58:27environments Dr Arnold do you have
- 00:58:29something to add to that well yeah I
- 00:58:31mean part of what I would say is what
- 00:58:33works the best is picking up the phone
- 00:58:37and calling someone what works the best
- 00:58:40is like running into them and saying hey
- 00:58:42can we talk about X Y or Z the problem
- 00:58:45is that it's inefficient in our busy
- 00:58:47lives and so the real question I would
- 00:58:49say and I think this is what John
- 00:58:51focuses on is what can we use technology
- 00:58:54to do that's basically cognitive it's
- 00:58:57trading cognitive information that my
- 00:58:59saying it to him is no better than
- 00:59:03reading it on a script and then what are
- 00:59:05the things that we need to sort of talk
- 00:59:08to each other about like you know
- 00:59:10old-fashioned talking because I think
- 00:59:13that one of the things that you see is
- 00:59:15you see the bad use of the web the bad
- 00:59:19use of email the bad use of sort of
- 00:59:22communication where things get lost and
- 00:59:24so for me it's not in either or it's
- 00:59:27what can we use the web for that the web
- 00:59:30has been built for and is really good at
- 00:59:33and what can we use you know
- 00:59:35old-fashioned talking for but that's
- 00:59:38probably
- 00:59:39better multimodal communication it's
- 00:59:42it's not you don't have to get it all in
- 00:59:44one place right you don't have to boil
- 00:59:46the ocean and do that there are a lot of
- 00:59:48different tools including face Toof face
- 00:59:51conversation and getting on the phone
- 00:59:53that that you just there's no there's no
- 00:59:56no substitute for those in in certain
- 00:59:58situations right I don't think any I'm
- 01:00:00sorry I I don't think anything will
- 01:00:02ever interfere with the face-to-face
- 01:00:06relationship between patient and
- 01:00:07clinician but I but I also think
- 01:00:10technology is moving at lightning speeds
- 01:00:12and and there's tele medicine that's
- 01:00:14being used tele Psychiatry is being used
- 01:00:17and I mean we're only kind
- 01:00:18of it'll only go full force and I don't
- 01:00:21it's not going to go away and and the
- 01:00:23technology is there it's it's already
- 01:00:25invented it's just tapping into it now I
- 01:00:27know Kaiser I just actually had an
- 01:00:29interview with uh Bernard Tyson the the
- 01:00:31CEO elect and he says all uh of Kaiser
- 01:00:35now is using um that they'll be using
- 01:00:37tele medicine there and all their
- 01:00:39Physicians are emailing patients um
- 01:00:42members of Kaiser so I think it's only
- 01:00:44going to continue to move full force and
- 01:00:46even in the hospital P patients and
- 01:00:48their families are bringing their
- 01:00:49laptops with them and they're they're
- 01:00:51they're Googling things as you're
- 01:00:52talking with them and they're saying is
- 01:00:54this best practice can you make sure
- 01:00:56that everything that is being done is
- 01:00:57best practice I mean I've never heard
- 01:00:59anybody use best practice other than
- 01:01:01Healthcare practitioners but now
- 01:01:02patients are saying that and and their
- 01:01:04family members so it has the internet
- 01:01:07has educated consumers Beyond
- 01:01:11uh greatly and it's only going to to
- 01:01:14move forward so I think we need to all
- 01:01:16get on board that this is what it is and
- 01:01:18uh but learn to communicate still learn
- 01:01:21to communicate face to face because we
- 01:01:23are kind of missing that a little bit
- 01:01:25too thank you bar give one last we're
- 01:01:30actually out of time but I want to give
- 01:01:32S one more chance yeah um just this
- 01:01:35conversation really reminds me of some
- 01:01:37of the the uh what I've heard from
- 01:01:40patients about privacy uh no matter what
- 01:01:44it is the vehicle in which uh doctors
- 01:01:47are communicating with one another uh
- 01:01:50it's important for uh patients to know
- 01:01:52that their that their privacy is being
- 01:01:54kept otherwise trust is going to be um
- 01:01:59you know hurt there right a very good
- 01:02:02point and it shows that we could go
- 01:02:05talking about this topic for hours and
- 01:02:07hours and not even scratch the surface
- 01:02:10uh so thank you so much for giving um
- 01:02:13your time today um the conversation will
- 01:02:16continue on tedm med.com on the great
- 01:02:19challenges page for improving medical
- 01:02:22Communications thank you to our team
- 01:02:25members who generously participated
- 01:02:27today and thanks to the tedm community
- 01:02:30who watched and sent questions as I
- 01:02:34um you can join us for our next live
- 01:02:37event where we discuss preparing for
- 01:02:39dementia on Thursday February 21st at 1
- 01:02:44pm eastern time and I want to wrap up by
- 01:02:49saying thank you again to the Robert
- 01:02:51Wood Johnson Foundation the sponsor of
- 01:02:54the great challenges program thank you
- 01:02:56everyone and have a great evening thank
- 01:02:59you thanks bye
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